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Quintus Archipirata Moon Stone Logistics	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:35:00 - [61] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Okay, CCP patched up freighters and they dropped loot. Because of the new patch, freighters are now targets of high-sec griefing. CCP, why don't you give us medium and low slots in our freighters please? Freighters drop loot so they must be able to fit some modules to prevent high-sec griefings. OMG !!! Quick CCP save me from being stupid! Please break out the nerf bat or give freighters super love because Jenny is to stupid to use transport ships to haul expensive gear in or use a scout! BTW there called pirates. Doh! Oh, while you are at it why not just ask CCP to make pirating against the rules? Would save alot of patching and whines. After all every one in high sec should always be nice and safe and keep a nice warm fuzzy feeling about themselfs and every one else around them. Want some cheese with that whine?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:36:00 - [62] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What harm could 0/3/3 hi/med/low do? You really don't know, do you? They even removed rig slots from Freighters because otherwise people would transport capital ships inside them to hi sec and use them there. So 3 lows are bad because people will fit cargo expanders. I'll ask the other way round, what good will they do? Do you think with these few slots the ganking issue will go away? People will have to use a couple more BS but it won't make a real difference where it's worth it.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:37:00 - [63] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What harm could 0/3/3 hi/med/low do? Simple: capital ships in empire. Freighter + cargo expanders = enough cargo space to fit repackaged capital ships. Give freighters slots and you might as well just allow cynos in empire and skip the whole middle step. Unless of course you'd be willing to accept a significant cargo space nerf to get your slots? ... ... ... Or you could set repackaged cap ships to 1000000000000 m3. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:37:00 - [64] 1. its not griefing. 2. its not a problem. Sure, you can't escort in high sec. You can however scout. If there's 20 AAA bs's sitting at a gate on a well-tavelled route in high sec then o-m-g it's so damn hard to guess what they're doing there isn't it ? All ths really does is punish those travelling afk. Those are the ones that'll get picked off this way, and that's not a part of the playerbase I feel particularly sorry for. [center] Old blog
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:41:00 - [65] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h There have indeed been suicide ganks since the patch. And at least one I know of that failed to pop the freighter. Oh, I must have been sleeping on my forum whoring job. I would have thought such a feat would generate gazillions of chest beatings and whines. Could you point me to a thread about such a gank so that I may gloat? Originally by: Imperator Jora'h As for freaking out about AFK ISK machines can you point to one post here that makes that case or even implies it? I'm hardly the one freaking out here. This all seems like much ado about nothing to me. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I think most if not all here are fine with suicide ganks but merely want the risk v. reward ratio to make some better sense than it does now. The risk you run is losing 20 BS for not enough loot. Then you have the problem with all the loot thieves who can just walse up to your kill and ransack it for any valuable loot. Risk vs Reward is fine. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h That or find a way to allow for proper escorts to do their job. Webbing frigs are dicey at best. ECM bursting/smartbombing battleships will probably save the freighter but likely at the cost of the battleship and a sec hit (possibly a steep one) to the defender. Does that seem in any way right to you? Damn right, that seems right to me. You've got 20 guys all losing their ships as well as sec status for your one guy. That is not to mention the fact that if anyone tries to loot the freighter wreck after it's been destroyed, you can be there in your shiney BS and shoot the crap outta him. He's stealing from your wreck after all. It's yours. You can kill anyone taking anything from the wreck! Originally by: Imperator Jora'h That's about the extent of the options and none of them good. Forget AFK pilots...what about the people who WANT to do it right and properly escort their freighters? Why shouldn't they have a fair shot at doing that? They have a fair shot. Problem is they are lazy and/or stupid. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h A billion ISK ship with NO module slots! Silly to say it is unbalancing. Even an 8 slot nano freighter would still be horribly slow but if you want to forbid that mod to freighters fine. Why not give them SOME fitting ability to try and defend themselves. They have a friggin huge cargo space in exchange for the slots. A freighter is a flying warehouse. You ever seen a warehouse defend itself? Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Oh yeah, no remote hull repairers either. IIRC a freighter down to 10% hull will cost 300 mil to repair. That make sense or seem right? With enough reppers you could probably do it, but that would mean putting as much effort in as the gankers, and that's just too much, isn't it? /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:45:00 - [66] Originally by: Kahor Use scanner or local to find the odd 20 dominix probably from same corp ? It's harder than you think to bump a freighter with a small ship, it might slow the align for maybe 5 sec, and that's it. Since your scout is one jump ahead, and warp way faster than the freighter (and speed in warp is way higher too), the scout (with a MWD fitted) will be on the gate, and only 2km away from webbing the freighter. It's surprisingly fast to align with a freighter, the problem come from the speed, and is resolved by a web. I know it because I've done it. You can bump with anything. If a small ship does not suffice a few Phoons could do the trick. Whatever. A little practice and you can keep a ship like a freighter from warping indefinitely. I've also done the web thing and while helpful it is not a sure thing to survive a suicide gank. Don't forget they will be scramming you too. While CONCORD will jam them and stop that they can hold you long enough. The video I saw on a suicide gank of a freighter the freighter went down in 12 seconds. Heck, have a few people in newbie frig with a scram on them added to your gang. Have them cycle a scram once each second on the freighter. Lag and CONCORD response time will not prevent the freighter from being scrammed till it is dead.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:02:00 - [67] One "escort" trick that would work would be to summon Concord preemptively. Destroyers would be effective and extremely cheap ways to do this, I think. It does require teamwork and planning of course. Which it should. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:03:00 - [68] Originally by: Ki An Oh, I must have been sleeping on my forum whoring job. I would have thought such a feat would generate gazillions of chest beatings and whines. Could you point me to a thread about such a gank so that I may gloat? How often do people post about any gank? I have to get a mate to give me the link to an image from a Red (forget) gank perhaps three days ago or so. CONCORD all over. I have also run by a few in local with a zillion CONCORD and people in local chattering about it (once was near Agil, another was by...forget...Rens maybe). I doubt I a ran across the only instances of this happening. Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h As for freaking out about AFK ISK machines can you point to one post here that makes that case or even implies it? I'm hardly the one freaking out here. This all seems like much ado about nothing to me. I did not ask if you were freaking out. I asked you to point to the place where people whined about getting their AFK ISK printing machines back (which was your words). Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I think most if not all here are fine with suicide ganks but merely want the risk v. reward ratio to make some better sense than it does now. The risk you run is losing 20 BS for not enough loot. Then you have the problem with all the loot thieves who can just walse up to your kill and ransack it for any valuable loot. Risk vs Reward is fine. The suicide gankers are not risking not getting enough loot. They know precisely what the freighter has and if it is worth getting. As for people dogpiling on the can the gankers will have an empty freighter there to take the loot. A few people might nab some but they will get the bulk of it. Quote: Damn right, that seems right to me. You've got 20 guys all losing their ships as well as sec status for your one guy. That is not to mention the fact that if anyone tries to loot the freighter wreck after it's been destroyed, you can be there in your shiney BS and shoot the crap outta him. He's stealing from your wreck after all. It's yours. You can kill anyone taking anything from the wreck! The 20 guys are taking a minor sec status hit for a huge payday. That is THEIR choice. The defender if he smartbombs may pod who knows how many innocents in defense of the freighter and NOT by his choice. Huge difference there. I can kill anyone looting my wreck from my pod that I am now in? Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h That's about the extent of the options and none of them good. Forget AFK pilots...what about the people who WANT to do it right and properly escort their freighters? Why shouldn't they have a fair shot at doing that? They have a fair shot. Problem is they are lazy and/or stupid. I explicitly stated what about the people who are not lazy or stupid and who really do want to go to the effort of properly guarding a freighter? Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h A billion ISK ship with NO module slots! Silly to say it is unbalancing. Even an 8 slot nano freighter would still be horribly slow but if you want to forbid that mod to freighters fine. Why not give them SOME fitting ability to try and defend themselves. They have a friggin huge cargo space in exchange for the slots. A freighter is a flying warehouse. You ever seen a warehouse defend itself? Sure...station guns. Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Oh yeah, no remote hull repairers either. IIRC a freighter down to 10% hull will cost 300 mil to repair. With enough reppers you could probably do it, but that would mean putting as much effort in as the gankers, and that's just too much, isn't it? Missed the point again. There are NO remote hull reps in game. And I am not on about hull tanking. If the freighter survives the gank and has considerable hull damage the ONLY way repair it is pay the station repair bill
ns10	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:04:00 - [69] All I can say is that there are a load of freighter pilots who carry 5-15 bill isk in their hold at any one time. No way to defend as freighter is dead in less than 15 secs, no amount of escourt can save you. How many freighter pilots losing say a years worth of saved isk will carry on playing once they lose everything. This does kill the freighter, empire ganks should not be allowed.
Draekas Darkwater Sanctum Infinitas	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:05:00 - [70] Seems to me that the answer is for concord to jam all your drones at the same time as they jam you. To me, it appears to be more of a "drone boat" glitch/exploit/whatever than anything else. If the point of concord is to warp in, jam you to prevent any further attacks from you before poping you... then it seems to me that the drone thing was probably more of an oversight by CCP than anything else. Most likely they didn't think it would ever be a huge issue, so never bothered dealing with it.

Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:08:00 - [71] Quote: Kali is for KArebearLIng. Waaa, waaa ? Its impossible to use scouts, it seems.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:08:00 - [72] Originally by: galadran Griefing Read and learn... Okay I read and players exploiting mechanics to grief otyher players? CCP changed the rules so they drop loot - therfore potential profit even after you loose the ships you attack with. Where is the griefing in this scenario? The only griefing I can see is that the Freighters HAVE to be suicided because the players are normally in NPC coprs and non-war decable.
Ling Xiao	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:10:00 - [73] Originally by: Rod Blaine 1. its not griefing. 2. its not a problem. Sure, you can't escort in high sec. You can however scout. If there's 20 AAA bs's sitting at a gate on a well-tavelled route in high sec then o-m-g it's so damn hard to guess what they're doing there isn't it ? What if they're aligned and at a safespot? __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:12:00 - [74] Originally by: Evil Thug Quote: Kali is for KArebearLIng. Waaa, waaa ? Its impossible to use scouts, it seems. This has been answered. It is trivially easy for the gankers to stay out of sight rather than advertise themselves sitting atop a gate. Use a scanner to find them? That'll work real well in Jita with 500+ people in system at any given time.
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:14:00 - [75] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Evil Thug Quote: Kali is for KArebearLIng. Waaa, waaa ? Its impossible to use scouts, it seems. This has been answered. It is trivially easy for the gankers to stay out of sight rather than advertise themselves sitting atop a gate. Use a scanner to find them? That'll work real well in Jita with 500+ people in system at any given time. Yes, its very hard to spot 20 dominixes on scaner, isn`t it ? Most Jita inhabitants flying domis, it seems.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:14:00 - [76] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What harm could 0/3/3 hi/med/low do? Simple: capital ships in empire. Freighter + cargo expanders = enough cargo space to fit repackaged capital ships. Give freighters slots and you might as well just allow cynos in empire and skip the whole middle step. Unless of course you'd be willing to accept a significant cargo space nerf to get your slots? How are packaged cap ships in Empire messed up? Not like you can fly them there. So what if they get transported through? Even if that is somehow a bad idea (don't see why but for the sake of argument will go with it) merely up the size of a packaged cap ship or just prohibit them being loaded into freighters. Or prohibit expanders on freighters. While using an expander on a freighter seems kinda cool they are big enough so no loss there. People want mod slots to be able to (possibly) defend themselves and their billion ISK ship to at least some extent. It's messed up because they CAN be flown in empire. You just can't build them (but you can assemble them) in empire, or activate a cyno to jump them in. Just ask Chibbra about the Veldnought, if you have one of the very few capital ships that were built in empire before the rules changed, you can operate them just fine. If you give freighters slots, then you'll be able to build them in low-sec/0.0, haul them in by freighter, and assemble in whatever high-sec system you want to cause trouble in. Besides, freighters are tough enough as it is. There's more to EVE than just ISK balance, killing a freighter requires 20 people to one freighter pilot. Give them a true tank and you'll make freighters virtually unkillable, unless you have a huge blob the freighter pilot can just log off and tank until the timer expires.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:15:00 - [77] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/04/2007 20:11:02 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Jenny Spitfire When you gank a freighter, the pilot stands a chance to lose billions. Gankers only lose less than 100M. An insured freighter won't cost you billions. If you put billions worth of stuff in it your just plain dumb. Your reply is dumb, read you post on other thread: 1) moving items worth billions in industrial is dumb, paper thin ship; 2) moving items worth billions in trasnport is dumb, 2 layers of paper tin armor don't make a difference; 3) moving items worth billions in freighter is dumb, they can be killed. So as any ship you can use to move a big load worth billion in high sec is a dumb option, what do you think must be used?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:15:00 - [78] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h How often do people post about any gank? I have to get a mate to give me the link to an image from a Red (forget) gank perhaps three days ago or so. CONCORD all over. I have also run by a few in local with a zillion CONCORD and people in local chattering about it (once was near Agil, another was by...forget...Rens maybe). I doubt I a ran across the only instances of this happening. People would post about a freighter suicide gank, simply because people posted about the two suicide ganks that happened before the patch. Without any proof this is just another "I heard someone who heard someone who might have seen it". Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I did not ask if you were freaking out. I asked you to point to the place where people whined about getting their AFK ISK printing machines back (which was your words). This whole thread is about freighters not being safe isk printing machines due to suicide gank. I can give you the link to this thread if you want. Here. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h The suicide gankers are not risking not getting enough loot. They know precisely what the freighter has and if it is worth getting. As for people dogpiling on the can the gankers will have an empty freighter there to take the loot. A few people might nab some but they will get the bulk of it. They risk the loot getting blown up ya know. The loot won't distribute 50/50 in terms of value. If the loot is in containers theres a fair chance most of it will blow. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h The 20 guys are taking a minor sec status hit for a huge payday. That is THEIR choice. The defender if he smartbombs may pod who knows how many innocents in defense of the freighter and NOT by his choice. Huge difference there. No. No difference. It's your choice to defend yourself. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I can kill anyone looting my wreck from my pod that I am now in? Ffs, you can't be this stupid. Anyone from the same corp as you can kill anyone that loots the wreck. We keep telling you to bring friends. Of course, this won't work if you're in an NPC corp. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I explicitly stated what about the people who are not lazy or stupid and who really do want to go to the effort of properly guarding a freighter? Seems to me you fall under the lazy/stupid cathegory as the people you speak of are able to protect their freighter/loot. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Sure...station guns. Never seen a warehouse with guns myself. You live in the bad part of town? Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Missed the point again. There are NO remote hull reps in game. And I am not on about hull tanking. If the freighter survives the gank and has considerable hull damage the ONLY way repair it is pay the station repair bill So? You take damage, and you may lose the profit from that run, but if you save your ship you can fly again another day. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:16:00 - [79] Originally by: Evil Thug Yes, its very hard to spot 20 dominixes on scaner, isn`t it ? Most Jita inhabitants flying domis, it seems. 500+ people in Jita (and omany other systems have hundreds) and you think it would be odd to see 20 Domis in the list?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:20:00 - [80] Originally by: Venkul Mul Your reply is dumb, read you post on other thread: 1) moving items worth billions in industrial is dumb, paper thin ship; 2) moving items worth billions in trasnport is dumb, 2 layers of paper tin armor don't make a difference; 3) moving items worth billions in freighter is dumb, they can be killed. So as any ship you can use to move a big load worth billion in high sec is a dumb option, what do you think must be used? My reply isn't dumb. You are. Expensive stuff such as t2 bpos should under no circumstances be moved in anything but a tanked BS or fast nanoed inty. Minerals should be packaged in containers, which will result in lots of it blowing up. Most importantly of all: You should NEVER put more in your ship than you can afford to lose. You should take EVERY opportunity to protect your ship. In this thread people have outlined SEVERAL ways to protect your ship, and if that fails, protect your loot. It isn't rocket science. It just takes more than one player in an NPC corp. In other words, it takes organisatory skills you obviously lack. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!

monkeyduck Mithril Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:20:00 - [81] Edited by: monkeyduck on 29/04/2007 20:20:25 Are you people using "scout" as your preventative measure really that naive? Considering some of the notable names posting it, I'd think not. Any gang organized enough to take down a freighter can easily sit aligned and full speed, just off the grid, ready to insta-warp. Hell, even fully unaligned you would still get there before a freighter could warp off, especially if you had your shuttles there bumping your target like they should be. Even with a scout, the BS fleet could sit multiple jumps out and STILL arrive before the freighter could get away so long as there was just one shuttle taking care of the freighter. A scout isn't going to save anyone. Remove insurance from Concord. There is absolutely no reason you should get insurance when Concord is the one spanking. Leave freighter ganks, don't add low/med slots - just make gankers pay out the nose to complete their task. If they pick their targets wisely they can still pull off a profit. Slots are NOT going to save a freighter.
Cipher7 Keepers of the Holy Bagel SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:21:00 - [82] Killing someone isn't griefing, it's playing a PVP game, which is what Eve is.
Sojuro Ryosaki Gallente Ultra Renegades Group	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:31:00 - [83] Having escorts is possible in Empire if you only stop thinking of an offensive escort and start thinking of defensive. By using destroyers or higher with remote armor reps and/or shield transfers, you can effectively protect the freighter. --
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:41:00 - [84] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 29/04/2007 20:37:32 Originally by: Ki An People would post about a freighter suicide gank, simply because people posted about the two suicide ganks that happened before the patch. Without any proof this is just another "I heard someone who heard someone who might have seen it". I said I would link a pic as soon as my mate comes on (if he has the link still). This is all post patch (last week or so). Till then I can't provide more. [quoteThis whole thread is about freighters not being safe isk printing machines due to suicide gank. I can give you the link to this thread if you want. Here. No it is not. Most of the thread is asking for reasonable options to make suicide ganking freighters to have their risk v. reward ratios sorted and/or provide for meaningful defense mechanisms. Point to the post in this thread again where someone complained about not being able to be AFK safely with a zillion in cargo on board. Quote: They risk the loot getting blown up ya know. The loot won't distribute 50/50 in terms of value. If the loot is in containers theres a fair chance most of it will blow. I never knew how the game determines loot drops with regard to cans. You are saying if 50% of my hold is filled with can of trit and the other 50% of my hold is filled with cans filled with megacyte there is a chance only the trit will drop? Seems a possibility I suppose but I am guessing a full freighter will drop near 50% of the cargo and random distribution should equate to roughly 50% of the overall value. Of course I suppose someone could get colossaly unlucky. Then again I doubt the gank will happen on the thin edge of profitability. More likely they will go for something with several billion in cargo and whatever happens they will make money. Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h The 20 guys are taking a minor sec status hit for a huge payday. That is THEIR choice. The defender if he smartbombs may pod who knows how many innocents in defense of the freighter and NOT by his choice. Huge difference there. No. No difference. It's your choice to defend yourself. Now that is absurd. Most anywhere I can think of would say you defending your property from attackers/looters is not the same choice as the attackers/looters choosing to attack you. Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I can kill anyone looting my wreck from my pod that I am now in? Ffs, you can't be this stupid. Anyone from the same corp as you can kill anyone that loots the wreck. We keep telling you to bring friends. I have asked several times about that very question and never got a definitive answer as to who obtains a kill flag. If it is as you say then good. Quote: Seems to me you fall under the lazy/stupid cathegory as the people you speak of are able to protect their freighter/loot. Maybe I am. What about the people who are not? Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Sure...station guns. Never seen a warehouse with guns myself. You live in the bad part of town? You really think warehouses do not have guards? In war they do not put flak batteries around such places? Hell, they put guns on WWII cargo vessles. Maybe not much use but doing it is simple enough. Off track though. Not talking about arming the freighter. Talking about improving its defensive capabilities. Quote: Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Missed the point again. There are NO remote hull reps in game. So? You take damage, and you may lose the profit from that run, but if you save your ship you can fly again another day. So, by that you would be ok with removing hull reppers from the game? You said you PvP. You will be happy with saving your ship and footing the repair bill? Why would you be opposed to remote repping a hull? Not like it is close to a good way to tank.
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:43:00 - [85] errrrm you guys knows escort is useless right?... in high sec, they just shoot the freighter, escort gets concorded if they do anything .... now.. if only they add in some "protection module" that the damage to the freighter is transfer to the escorts... then escorts would work.. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:44:00 - [86] The bottom line imo is, the agressor has the option to mod however he wants for it, the defender does not. Couple that with the fact that Concordokken still gets you an insurance payout...well it's just idiotic. Anyone with any sense of objectivity would see that. Finito.
Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:46:00 - [87] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Evil Thug Yes, its very hard to spot 20 dominixes on scaner, isn`t it ? Most Jita inhabitants flying domis, it seems. 500+ people in Jita (and omany other systems have hundreds) and you think it would be odd to see 20 Domis in the list? Find me a screenshot where you can see 20+ odd dominix on 360 scanner from a gate in Jita, and I'll consider the fact that Jita might not be safe for freighters... The rest of you too lazy to click two buttons with your mouse when you scout might as well take the loss and learn from it. With the current nerf to speed mod I am not even sure a typhoon can align, and get from 0km to its max speed and bump the freighter that is 12/14 km away before it warps. And if it does, -and the ganksquad managed to land from the warp initiated out of scanning range (remember you have a scout and you scanned) before your freighter is out, -and all the members of that ganksquad are not all asleep from staying hours in a SS in empire to gank a possible worthy freighter. -Kill the freighter without missing him (I am pretty sure if the freighter is not afk, and keep pressing warp toward something he is aligned to and is not getting bumped again, it will warp off, probably in structure, when all the hostile dominix are jammed) -And the ganksquad also have a hauling squad which must be different chars than the one that shooted the freighter. -And that hauling squad didn't fall asleep either. They deserve to get the loots, minus what has been destroyed (which could be everything), and the sec status loss, and the isk loss (as little as it might seems/be, 20 mil per pilot for 20 pilot is still 400 mil). Let's face it, suicide ganking in empire happens because people can do it solo (with alt most likely), and can choose their own time frame, while getting a 20+ man gang organisated on the same schedule for no garanteed profit is WAY HARDER. Not to mention all those twenty people then have to rat in 0.0 to get back in empire. The only two cases of a freighter getting suicided in empire I have heard of have been done because of : revenge and revenge. While it might have been profitable, or not, it's definitly not easy task, and cannot be made on a daily basis. ---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind. snip, do not evade the word filter with your sig. Email [email protected] for more information. -HornFrog
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:48:00 - [88] Originally by: Sojuro Ryosaki By using destroyers or higher with remote armor reps and/or shield transfers, you can effectively protect the freighter. Not even close. Last time I went around on this I figured the suicide gank that made so much forum news applied 12,500 DPS to the freighter (real DPS, after resists and such). Probably more actually but let's go with 12,500 DPS. The logisitics ships required to defend against that would be staggering.
Nymos Haiduken Industries	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:48:00 - [89] haha. i posted a thread when the first freighter gank happened like 1.5 months ago or something and pointed out it only costs 500m for 20 insured domis. people were just like "lololololoolllooll!!". now it's there :p did jenny's freighter get ganked? woot!! :D don't fly what you can't afford to lose, right? :p -- Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.29 20:52:00 - [90] Edited by: Ki An on 29/04/2007 20:49:23 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I said I would link a pic as soon as my mate comes on (if he has the link still). This is all post patch (last week or so). Till then I can't provide more. Fair enough. Would love to see screenies. Love the freighter wreck. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h No it is not. Most of the thread is asking for reasonable options to make suicide ganking freighters to have their risk v. reward ratios sorted and/or provide for meaningful defense mechanisms. Point to the post in this thread again where someone complained about not being able to be AFK safely with a zillion in cargo on board. Reasonable options have been put forth, but disregarded because people want an afk isk-print. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I never knew how the game determines loot drops with regard to cans. You are saying if 50% of my hold is filled with can of trit and the other 50% of my hold is filled with cans filled with megacyte there is a chance only the trit will drop? Seems a possibility I suppose but I am guessing a full freighter will drop near 50% of the cargo and random distribution should equate to roughly 50% of the overall value. Of course I suppose someone could get colossaly unlucky. Then again I doubt the gank will happen on the thin edge of profitability. More likely they will go for something with several billion in cargo and whatever happens they will make money. If you have two cans in cargo, one with trit, one with zyd, one, two or none of them might survive. However, if the trit can survives and the zyd doesn't, the profit will be far less. Roughly 50% of the items in the bay will survive, but this is just a statistical figure. Theoretically all of the cargo may blow. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Now that is absurd. Most anywhere I can think of would say you defending your property from attackers/looters is not the same choice as the attackers/looters choosing to attack you. Yeah, you can defend yourself if you want. The sec status would come from any collateral damage you cause, which is understandable and fully realistic. After all, if your house gets robbed and you open fire with your M16 and in the process of shooting the robbers take out your neighbours dog, wife and car, you'll be held responsable for that. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I have asked several times about that very question and never got a definitive answer as to who obtains a kill flag. If it is as you say then good. You may stop asking and take my word for it. That's how it works. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Maybe I am. What about the people who are not? They won't lose a freighter. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h You really think warehouses do not have guards? In war they do not put flak batteries around such places? Hell, they put guns on WWII cargo vessles. Maybe not much use but doing it is simple enough. Off track though. Not talking about arming the freighter. Talking about improving its defensive capabilities. And I'm talking about how the defensive capabilities of a freighter should come from the other ships who flies along side him. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h So, by that you would be ok with removing hull reppers from the game? You said you PvP. You will be happy with saving your ship and footing the repair bill? Why would you be opposed to remote repping a hull? Not like it is close to a good way to tank. For your first question, I always pay for my repairs unless I'm fitted to rep myself, like armor repping. For your second question, I have never said I am opposed to remote hull repping. Bring it on. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!



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