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Freighter griefing problem?

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Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.05.01 09:41:00 - [211] Stupid ideia OP. people would and will suicide even if you have 8 low slots and 8 mediums ,dont you get it ?If you are doing that runs alone you deserved to be killed . High-sec griefing?Lol ........ I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Omak Topal Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.01 09:59:00 - [212] Edited by: Omak Topal on 01/05/2007 09:58:06 Edited by: Omak Topal on 01/05/2007 09:56:02 its like POSs with guns, and other defense structures. if the enemey wants to put the POS in reinforced, they will. no matter how much resistance or guns you put on it. the same will go for freighters, no ammount of lowslots/medslots will make a differnce, it will just mean that the group attacking needs to be somewhat larger and do more dmg before being shot by concord, the freighter will still get killed. learn to live with the idea that you may loose it i guess. ------ <imagen a verry nice graphical signature here>
Whineroy	Posted - 2007.05.01 10:11:00 - [213] Originally by: Miz Cenuij LOL @ this thread. Leave frieghters as they are and keep insurance. STOP your whing you empire carebears scum, i hope you all get WTF owned. Whoever has the co-ordination to plan these attacks PWNS and should be proud of themselves. Fairplay lads, gut those fat lazy empire pigs like the inbred scum they are. LOL, an Octobersnow ganker-****er nerd whining about "carebears". Haven't you managed to camp enough newbies lately or something ? Grow a pair and head to 0.0 to fight against foes who actually can fight back, carebear.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.01 10:49:00 - [214] Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: Namingway Jenny, didn't you get your vaga BPO by suicide ganking someone in highsec? I think that Jenny is long gone...god knows who's at her place behind the comp nowdays :) Yeah I think you might be right. The Jenny I knew would'nt be such a carebear. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:24:00 - [215] Originally by: Omak Topal the same will go for freighters, no ammount of lowslots/medslots will make a differnce, it will just mean that the group attacking needs to be somewhat larger and do more dmg before being shot by concord, the freighter will still get killed. learn to live with the idea that you may loose it i guess. Therefore freighters do not deserve any slot at all? I find that weak. CCP might as well give 0 m3 cargo space to battleships because they are not supposed to haul expensive cargo. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:43:00 - [216] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Therefore freighters do not deserve any slot at all? I find that weak. CCP might as well give 0 m3 cargo space to battleships because they are not supposed to haul expensive cargo. You have been explained to, again and again, why it is a bad idea to give slots to freighters, and also that it won't do any good in a suicide gank situation, and still you bring it up... Are you really not understanding this, or do you have trouble reading the replies? /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Howling Jinn Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:48:00 - [217] why not give freigthers the hp boost every other ship had?
Augeas	Posted - 2007.05.01 13:14:00 - [218] Quote: Are you stupid or something? This was already resolved a few pages back. Bring 5 BS with 8 large remote reps and you completely negate the DPS from 20 domis. End of pathetic whiny thread. Please.
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:08:00 - [219] I really don't care what the previous 8 pages said, because the thread is wrong from the title: Piracy of Freighters is, by definition, not griefing. It is done for profit. Not MY way of making profit, but someone elses. And it's not like it's inevitable, a decent escort sorts you out in no time.
mmm cheese	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:18:00 - [220] Always loads going through Uedama AFK
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:29:00 - [221] Edited by: Korizan on 01/05/2007 14:28:45 This is really not about feighters but SUICIDE ganking in general and is strickly a high sec issue. Suicide Ganking is and always has been a contriversal topic. Be it a miner,hauler or now a freighter the bottom line there is no way to prevent in from happening in high sec. There is no fix without radically changing the game so it just won't happen. The closest and the only thing I have heard is the removal of insurance pay outs for a suicide. IE if you get concorded no insurance payout period. But as it has not happened and I doubt it ever will. CCP stated that there intent was to make freighters lootable. This I agree with. So lets talk about it real issue SUICIDE GANKING if you want and lets get off the freighters.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:32:00 - [222] Originally by: Korizan This is really not about feighters but SUICIDE ganking in general and is strickly a high sec issue. Suicide Ganking is and always has been a contriversal topic. Be it a miner,hauler or now a freighter the bottom line there is no way to prevent in from happening in high sec. There is no fix without radically changing the game so it just won't happen. The closest and the only thing I have heard is the removal of insurance pay outs for a suicide. IE if you get concorded no insurance payout period. Sighs... What about all the counters mentioned in this thread? Have you even tried those? There are counters for suicide ganking. The only reason it exists is that people are too lazy to use the counters, or too secure in the notion that high sec space is "safe". /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:34:00 - [223] Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 01/05/2007 14:28:45 This is really not about feighters but SUICIDE ganking in general and is strickly a high sec issue. Suicide Ganking is and always has been a contriversal topic. Be it a miner,hauler or now a freighter the bottom line there is no way to prevent in from happening in high sec. There is no fix without radically changing the game so it just won't happen. The closest and the only thing I have heard is the removal of insurance pay outs for a suicide. IE if you get concorded no insurance payout period. But as it has not happened and I doubt it ever will. CCP stated that there intent was to make freighters lootable. This I agree with. So lets talk about it real issue SUICIDE GANKING if you want and lets get off the freighters. For the last ******* time. Bring a scout, bring remote repping BSes numbering 1/4 the number of attackers, problem solved.
Proton Power Amarr Power Corrupts Tech Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:58:00 - [224] So what your saying is every time I go to move anything worth 1bil isk I need to get an escort in Empire now. I think to many PVP'ers are in this thread, as a PVP'er I would say the same thing, but from running a industrial corp I would disagree. Most traders and industrialists are very small groups of people or even solo. They now have no chance with freighters. I dont mind suiciding freighters, but this does need to be looked at a little more, maybe give more shields or armor per lvl of freighter skill or somthing. Just somthing ot keep the gankers guessing what they need to effectivly kill the freighter and make it where a freighter with max skills needs atleast 40 bs's to suicide it to make the loss value on each side equall. ----------------------------------------------- http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:12:00 - [225] Originally by: Proton Power So what your saying is every time I go to move anything worth 1bil isk I need to get an escort in Empire now. I think to many PVP'ers are in this thread, as a PVP'er I would say the same thing, but from running a industrial corp I would disagree. Most traders and industrialists are very small groups of people or even solo. They now have no chance with freighters. I dont mind suiciding freighters, but this does need to be looked at a little more, maybe give more shields or armor per lvl of freighter skill or somthing. Just somthing ot keep the gankers guessing what they need to effectivly kill the freighter and make it where a freighter with max skills needs atleast 40 bs's to suicide it to make the loss value on each side equall. You make it look like there will be 10 20man Domi camps on every route in empire and you cant undock anyone... Its not the average pirate corp that'll "camp" highsec with 20 peeps or more to wait for the occasional afking freighter. As well, your stuff might also blow up with you, leaving the gankers with a 400mil loss. A lot of people will think twice before doing this. Last but not least...use a scout which is also webbing you and you are fine.
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:18:00 - [226] You know (Ki An & Gamesguy) I don't see where any of my comments are about work arounds for freighters. In fact that was not even the point of the replie but you 2 obviously miss read. I was just pointing out that everyone seems to be saying change freighters and blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is that the issue of Suicide ganking has been around for a very long time. It has only come back to the front because of the recent changes to freighters. And it is my opinion that Suicide Ganking is the real issue not freighters and the design / setups per say. However. 1. It seems most posters on this forum DO NOT want changes because they use this tactic personnally. 2. Those that DO want it changed probably fall in the victem category. And then there are the 0.0 poster who to be frank have little to no stake in it at all and find it amusing because carebears are getting what is coming to them because they are not in 0.0 with the rest. Then there are others like myself who would prefer to talk about a subject objectively rather then listen to a bunch of people talking like they have never left the second grade and take everything as a personnal attack.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:29:00 - [227] Originally by: Korizan You know (Ki An & Gamesguy) I don't see where any of my comments are about work arounds for freighters. In fact that was not even the point of the replie but you 2 obviously miss read. I was just pointing out that everyone seems to be saying change freighters and blah blah blah. You stated quite clearly that you couldn't see any ways to make a freighter defendable, and that removing insurance was the closest and best way to go. I pointed out that there are lots of ways to defend a freighter, and that you should simply put more effort into it. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I can only call 'em as I see 'em. Originally by: Korizan The fact of the matter is that the issue of Suicide ganking has been around for a very long time. It has only come back to the front because of the recent changes to freighters. And it is my opinion that Suicide Ganking is the real issue not freighters and the design / setups per say. Yes, it would seem that that is what people whine about now. Like you say, it's been around forever, and it's not likely to disappear, so I guess people had better get used to it and act accordingly. Originally by: Korizan However. 1. It seems most posters on this forum DO NOT want changes because they use this tactic personnally. 2. Those that DO want it changed probably fall in the victem category. And then there are the 0.0 poster who to be frank have little to no stake in it at all and find it amusing because carebears are getting what is coming to them because they are not in 0.0 with the rest. Then there are others like myself who would prefer to talk about a subject objectively rather then listen to a bunch of people talking like they have never left the second grade and take everything as a personnal attack. How convenient that you put yourself in the "objective" cathegory and generalize about all others. I myself have never suicide ganked anything (Ok, I once attacked a covetor in a tristan, but that was just for kicks. Got blown up real good, and hardly dented the ships shields), so that means I must be objective too, right? /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Jelek Coro Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:38:00 - [228] Too many empire carebears crying wolf when there isn't a problem... Perhaps they will learn to work as team in a ... corp!!! Plenty of solutions given... if someone really wants to blow a freighter, you are not going to stop them if they bring the firepower. Same with everything.
BigDave F.S.O.	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:47:00 - [229] Wow... just, WOW. Jenny Spitfire was one of the few forum personalities I could respect, as she always seemed to have the right perspective on things. "New Jenny" is a disgrace to memories of the old. To quote Jenny of yore: ADAPT. ----- Dang, signatures keep getting smaller and smaller, unless you count the bits where ISD colors outside the lines...
Jonathan Xavier Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:56:00 - [230] Edited by: Jonathan Xavier on 01/05/2007 15:52:43 Personally I am in support of the additional low and midslot idea proposed by Jenny and others. To those thinking that it wouldn't do anything, consider this: the bulk of a freighter's hit points exist in structure. Adding a Damage Control II and a Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkhead (or two) could nearly double the freighter's effective hit points, making killing it a much riskier and more expensive proposition. I feel it would be a fair (and interesting) trade-off for freighter pilots to be able to choose between security and cargo capacity. By reducing the base cargo capacity by an appropriate amount (in line with the number of low slots added) it would give freighter pilots the ability to choose between max cargo and max security setups. For example, when I fly my freighter, there are a lot of times when I am not hauling maximum capacity, and would gladly trade my capacity for additional resistance and structure. Conversely, if I'm only moving tritanium (relatively inexpensive), I would opt instead for maximum cargo volume. Freighters certainly wouldn't be unkillable, but on the other hand, it would make them a lot more secure than they are right now.
Rawthorm Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:11:00 - [231] Not that there is anything wrong with ganking but being able to shoot after concord arive is bypasing game mechanics. Concord jam for a reason and the use of drones bypasses this (so technicaly an exploit). CCP simply need to code in some kind of concord trigger that jams the drones too.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:13:00 - [232] Empire is Lowsec now. Get use to it.
Ling Xiao	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:13:00 - [233] I think CCP is allergic to even looking at drone code, let alone changing it __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:36:00 - [234] Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem isn't that freighters can be killed, the problem is that they can't be defended. Bingo
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:38:00 - [235] Originally by: Lord Dynastron Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem isn't that freighters can be killed, the problem is that they can't be defended. Bingo Could someone please sumarize the ways to defend a freighter (all of which are listed in this thread) for the morons who can't be assed to read the entire thread? I can't deal with people like this anymore... /me goes off to blow something up. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:51:00 - [236] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Lord Dynastron Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem isn't that freighters can be killed, the problem is that they can't be defended. Bingo Could someone please sumarize the ways to defend a freighter (all of which are listed in this thread) for the morons who can't be assed to read the entire thread? I can't deal with people like this anymore... /me goes off to blow something up. /Ki Morons? Whatever... If defending freighters with fleets of armor repping battleships is your idea of defense then,, well,, ok.... but think about how many freighters move in out out of Jita a day. Are you seriously saying they each one should carry a fleet of BS around with it. Really? You know full well that that is an option so difficult in practice to pull off that it will not happen regularly. Hmmm,, how many armor repping battleships would that be? Lol,, a number that boggles the mind. Oh,, and sending scouts ahead is not a defense... more of a way to avoid a scenario where a defense would be needed.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:53:00 - [237] Originally by: Lord Dynastron If defending freighters with fleets of armor repping battleships is your idea of defense then,, well,, ok.... but think about how many freighters move in out out of Jita a day. Are you seriously saying they each one should carry a fleet of BS around with it. Really? You know full well that that is an option so difficult in practice to pull off that it will not happen regularly. Hmmm,, how many armor repping battleships would that be? Lol,, a number that boggles the mind. I'd say 5 per freighter would suffice. Is that too much? What about the fact that it takes about 30 BSs to take the freighter down? Perhaps we should argue for a reduction in freighter hp as it takes too much effort to suicide them? Originally by: Lord Dynastron Oh,, and sending scouts ahead is not a defense... more of a way to avoid a scenario where a defense would be needed. It's a proactive defense though, isn't it? I mean, you are free to not scout ahead, but then you can't really whine about being suicide ganked. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.05.01 17:04:00 - [238] All this BS drama CCP is creating in high sec, how lame... I can't wait for Infinity. Building the homestead
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.01 17:11:00 - [239] Originally by: Jonathan Xavier Lastly, I think being able to get loot from freighters is great. Killing freighters is a huge blow to any corporation. Instead of attacking them in a suicide gank, get them with a wardec. Perhaps put a restriction on ship size for pilots in NPC corps (i.e. NPC corp infrastructure unable to support the undocking procedures and servicing costs of capital ships) would get all freighter pilots into wardeccable corporations. Fine, then if you want to kill a freighter, war dec the corp driving it. Until then, don't make it profitable and easy to kill freighters in high-sec. Now, if the "chance" of getting ganked in a freighter, which hasnt actually happened in any fashion that someone being your average trader needs to worry, already causes people to go bonkers...what do you think happens when NPC corps cant run freighters anymore? I mean I'm all for it, and any alliance out there, or corp, who would consider suicide-ganking someone in a freighter will rather war-dec them and do it the "proper" way.
Thoric Frosthammer Fallen Angels Inc INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.01 17:18:00 - [240] Hi sec is hi sec for a reason. If they wanted it to be less safe then 0.0, they wouldn't have made it hi sec. Just because you've found a loophole in the game mechanics, that doesn't somehow magically mean its all ok, and intended. And yes, the use of drones in this case is a loophole in the game mechanics. It evades the heavy jamming concord unleashes. If you deny that, you're just blowing smoke. The arguments I see here from the pro-gank crowd are the same arguments used to justify privateers' massive war dec loophole. Which was then subsequently closed. So I believe I can safely say that this is not the intended state of things, and that those arguments don't carry a lot of weight. There is MEANT to be a separation between Hi sec and Low sec. If you aren't wardecced, you arent supposed to have to mount a 15 ship escort for your freighter in the middle of 1.0 space. Anyone who denies that is just trying to defend their particular little exploit, so they can profit from it, not analyzing it objectively. Calling people carebears isn't a valid argument, its simply ad hominem garbage. There are plenty of fools driving freighters through lowsec and 0.0 without escorts. You don't need hi sec too. If they wont give freighters some way to protect themselves, or close the loophole in Concord protection, then they ought to just remove the loot again. I don't even own a freighter. But when and if I do, I think it'd be nice if i didnt have to call out my entire corp just to run from Ourselaert to Hek. Unless, of course, I was wardecced. But that's a valid game mechanic, unlike the current state of things.

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