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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.10 02:27:00 -
[361]
people who fly a freighter arent weak
they choose to have no defense
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.10 03:27:00 -
[362]
 Originally by: big mang
[snip]
if you are carrying things not in containers in a freighter your plain stupid
Tell me how to get Cruisers or a BS or two into a can and I'll gladly pass on the information to others. These ships were meant to carry large items that other ships can't, that often means items that are too large to even fit in a can.
Besides, like I said before, with insurance being paid out even for Concord ganks, player rats are in a win/much bigger win situation.
Even if the Freighter cans are empty, the rats don't really lose anything except a bit of a sec drop. A couple of hours ratting or mission running soon cures that and they can get more isk in the process. However, the Freighter pilot stands to lose over 700 million isk even if they are insured with platinum level insurance. That's a fair number of days mining, ratting or mission running and they have to make it up before they can get another Freighter to continue their trade and start making isk again. It's equivalent to losing 7 uninsured BS's.
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CrestoftheStars
Deviance Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.10 04:47:00 -
[363]
to think that it can even be discussed....
attacking other players in high sec is wrong full STOP!!
no discussion needs to be made here. CCP STOP IT!!!!
if people can't handle the freedom (which they clearly can since this is such a big problem) then rules (mechanics in a game) will go in and stop em... so make it that you can't attack unless some one agree's to a "dual" "whatever thing, in high sec.
problem solved and people moving on as the game was intended..
you can't handle the freedom, well then you will not have it for long..
responsibillity comes with oppotunities you know..
___________________________________________
if eve had This kind of control system combinet with it's SP and advanced weaponry system it have.
http://sco.gpotato.com/ |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.10 13:25:00 -
[364]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
to think that it can even be discussed....
attacking other players in high sec is wrong full STOP!!
no discussion needs to be made here. CCP STOP IT!!!!
if people can't handle the freedom (which they clearly can since this is such a big problem) then rules (mechanics in a game) will go in and stop em... so make it that you can't attack unless some one agree's to a "dual" "whatever thing, in high sec.
problem solved and people moving on as the game was intended..
you can't handle the freedom, well then you will not have it for long..
responsibillity comes with oppotunities you know..
im a bit lost
there is no freedom if its 100% prevented so your post goes something like this
"put people in cages to make them free !"
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Devious Syn
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Posted - 2007.05.10 13:39:00 -
[365]
This game gets better and better don't it?
1) Create a ship (that is probably overpowered).
2) get everyone use to it and how its used.
3) Nerf it so it becomes useless. (Unless of course freighters weren't suppose to be used to move valuable stuff in high sec anyways)
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:07:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Devious Syn
This game gets better and better don't it?
1) Create a ship (that is probably overpowered).
2) get everyone use to it and how its used.
3) Nerf it so it becomes useless. (Unless of course freighters weren't suppose to be used to move valuable stuff in high sec anyways)
loot did not nerf freighters
it put them back on par with
wait for it--
every other ship in the game !
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Igus
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:27:00 -
[367]
If a player even attempts kill another in high sec they should have their sec standing reduced by -5.0 for each time.
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:58:00 -
[368]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
to think that it can even be discussed....
attacking other players in high sec is wrong full STOP!!
no discussion needs to be made here. CCP STOP IT!!!!
Someone needs to read this thread over. I see little evidence of preventing attacks in highsec, rather that a freighter should have some form of defence. Just like any other ship.
Originally by: SiJira
loot did not nerf freighters
it put them back on par with
wait for it--
every other ship in the game !
WRONG! Give it highs mids and lows and a half decent CPU/PG and it puts it back on par but ATM, it's a pretty sizable bullseye and nothing more. Personally I'd settle for mids alone since it would be better than nothing at all.
Every ship, no matter what it is (even a shuttle) has the right to defend itself against attack even if this means defensive mods only (shield tank for example).
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.10 19:13:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Malcum Blakhurst
I have no problem with freighters dropping loot.
The Problem is that Freighters could be killed before the change - and very few people did it - but they did it for the right reasons - to seriously hurt their opposition.
Now people are just doing it because they can with the promise of phat freighter style loot.
Before it was ok for freighters not to have any module slots and if you were at war you stayed docked or used a scout and only if you Absolutely had to move something large somewhere.
Now You can't move anything large anywhere at any time because there is always the quite likely chance that you'll come across a High sec gank squad that will find you tasty.
The problem here is that freighters have absolutely no way to protect themselves. In low sec and 0.0 you can take people with you to help- in High sec these same protection people will get concorded in self defense. As well as the Gankers getting the vast majority of their cost back in insurance.
This would be equivilant to you getting 30 people together and going and crashing all your cars into a Walmart - filled with explosives and Firebomb then entire building - knick off with 1/2 the loot in a 18wheeler and then having the police show up and shoot the store clerk who pulled a shotgun on you to try save the store - quickly followed by the insurance companies turning up and paying you out for the loss of your cars in the firebombing. I'm sorry but WTF ??????
There has been some suggestion about giving freighters low and med slots - well honestly I'm with the gankers on not giving them Low slots thats just silly - but Med slots hell yes. If you've ever looked at a freighter you'll notice they have approx the same shield HP's as BS's and TONS or armour and structure. But you can't give them low slots for obvious reasons - so this leaves meds. Simply Either swap freighter Armour and Shield HP's round so they can use Shield boosters and be effective - or give them med slots to equip Structure reppers. Not as good as shield boosters but at least running 2-3 of them will give freighter pilots a fraction more time.
This total rubbish about not using ships to move valuable items is just daft. They have to be moved somehow and I'd love to see how many of these gankers have had to be part of a Hauling convoy... ever ... its boring as all hell for the haulers and the guards.
By all means gank AFK'ers - but freighter Pilots who sit then and manually warp from gate to gate for hours and hours on end should at least be able to defend themselves if attacked in HIGH SEC.
/signed on the Freighters side - They need someway to defend themselves from HIGH SEC ganking (this excludes LOW sec and 0.0 space in which case guards are a practical option.
If you want realistic insurance, then realistic cops come with that too:
They'll turn up 10 mins - 2 hours after the shooting starts and take 2 or 3 days to find a suspect.
And then the Gallante pilot who ganked you will go scot-free, while a random near-by Minmatari gets 15-to-life after getting a confession beaten out of him.
Justice is served!
Oh yeah: Your insurance doesn't pay out either, after the loss adjuster notes that you jumped your freighter into a system shown on the map as having 3 or more ship losses in the last hour. Oh and your no-claims bonus is shot, and your premiums get jacked as you're obviously a high risk.
This realistic enough for you yet...?
This realistic enough
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:14:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Drizit
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
to think that it can even be discussed....
attacking other players in high sec is wrong full STOP!!
no discussion needs to be made here. CCP STOP IT!!!!
Someone needs to read this thread over. I see little evidence of preventing attacks in highsec, rather that a freighter should have some form of defence. Just like any other ship.
Originally by: SiJira
loot did not nerf freighters
it put them back on par with
wait for it--
every other ship in the game !
WRONG! Give it highs mids and lows and a half decent CPU/PG and it puts it back on par but ATM, it's a pretty sizable bullseye and nothing more. Personally I'd settle for mids alone since it would be better than nothing at all.
Every ship, no matter what it is (even a shuttle) has the right to defend itself against attack even if this means defensive mods only (shield tank for example).
if you want slots there are some very neat transports and industrials
the freighter is a tradeoff for slots < huge cargohold
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
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Jor Renalt
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:56:00 -
[371]
I'm fairly new to the game so I don't really have any direct experience with what's being discussed here. However, it does seem to me that giving frieghters one or two mid slots would make things a bit more balanced. At the same time though if a hauler hired even one escort to gang with them for the trip it would make ganking far less practicle-even impossible (form what I understand). Even one moderately armed ship would delay the gankers long enough to let Concord show up. Hell, you could even hire someone to stay one jump behind you with another frieghter (empty) that could loot your wreck in the event of a gank.
I'm probably naive and totally off base here, but just some thoughts.
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Denebola Rises
Regalis Industria Scientia Entreprendre
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.10 20:57:00 -
[372]
If Freighters not dropping loot was "out of balance" before, it is more out of balance now.
Being Eve, people will find a way to survive, adjust, or leave.
imho: this change was not thought thru in the side-effects that it is causing. That is what MM does - surprises developers. So I hope that CCP does what it expects of us - adjust again, and bring the pendulum more to the middle rather than high on the other side.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:21:00 -
[373]
Just a bit of backstory I'm missing. Why were freighters never allowed slots in the first place?
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.10 21:23:00 -
[374]
Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 10/05/2007 21:20:05
Originally by: Janu Hull
Just a bit of backstory I'm missing. Why were freighters never allowed slots in the first place?
Reasons that come to mind at the moment is for one, with low slots they can get a huge increase in cargo capacity. And their capacity was intended to be as it is.
Another one coming with the above would be capital ships being hauler into high sec in freighters, which also isnt supposed to be possible.
Having mid slots and lows means that freighters are no longer the slow, very slowly moving, dull ships they are now, yet, they were intended to be just that, huge hulls with lots of space.
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Lilith Bloodsong
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Posted - 2007.05.17 19:12:00 -
[375]
If player insurence on illegal activities is removed then pirating becomes non profitable, that massivly decreses the demand for mods and the market is flooded wich in turn decreases the value of mods and freighters become useless anyway |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Requiem of Hades
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Posted - 2007.05.17 19:24:00 -
[376]
Kind of sad. Still no word from the Devs after 13 pages. 
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:39:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Kind of sad. Still no word from the Devs after 13 pages.
Do you even read anything anybody else says?
Did you miss the constant references in mulitple threads that the fix for this is already in testing on singularity? Concord is getting boosted to pop/jam drones on arrival.
Did you miss the post by Wrangler in another thread that said the core concept of suicide ganking isn't broken?
Or do you just complain, complain, complain nonstop without even logging in? You're just going to have to wait for the patch, no word yet if it will be in the May 22nd patch yet or Revelations 2.0
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.18 23:11:00 -
[378]
Edited by: Drizit on 18/05/2007 23:09:51
Double post
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.18 23:11:00 -
[379]
Originally by: SiJira
if you want slots there are some very neat transports and industrials
the freighter is a tradeoff for slots < huge cargohold
You are joking right?
Let me know how to repackage a large ship like a BS to transport to a market area in an Indy or a Transporter and I'll go along with it. Unless of course you want all the manufacturing slots near hub systems to be used by ship builders.
Until CCP create an unlimited supply of slots for manufacture, copying and Material research in every station, I guess we'll have to make do with using stations that are not close to hub systems. So when you start complaining that you have to make 20+ jumps to find a BS for sale, I'll remind you about this. OK?
In America in the 1800's, trains used to have no means of defence against attacks. After they lost a few to Indians and bandits, they started to mount gatling guns on them. I guess they traded off massive cargo movement for armament but soon put some guns on it when they got too many attacks. Why should Freighter pilots be any different? It's not as if they are really asking for something to shoot back with, they just want something to help last long enough to make using them worth the cost. ATM, they are little more use than a rich players toy and a poor players target.
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TerryTigre Dragonquestor
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Posted - 2007.05.26 16:54:00 -
[380]
There is a easy solution, just dont use freighters till they can actually last more than 38 seconds against 15 dominis. Thats why i postponed buying a freigher even though i have the skills for it now. Good thing too, i was looking at freighter threads to learn about them, and the thread a couple of weeks back said all i needed to know 
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Kooraia
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Posted - 2007.05.27 01:44:00 -
[381]
there was never anything wrong with empire ganks except the insurance paid to criminals.
as long as this is not fixed, another anti-empire thread will show up every 2-6 weeks as the issue is upsetting some people, which are a majority compared to the gankers.
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E Vile
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.27 11:23:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem isn't that freighters can be killed, the problem is that they can't be defended.
Yes they can. With good planning, and good teamwork.
"The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Shohadaku New York Metal |
Neue Ziel
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Posted - 2007.06.17 01:28:00 -
[383]
IÆve been listening to this debate for a couple of weeks now. I canÆt conclude that high-sec freighter ganks are anything more then griefing. Sorry, thatÆs how it is. Despite all the griefers crying about how high-sec shouldnÆt be safe itÆs obviously supposed to be. You get a BIG hint when Concord flies in and blows stuff up. Like it or not High-sec is carebearville. Newbie players (and those of us who arenÆt in the mood for PVP) need a place where we can recover from the wars or make ISK to cover PVP losses; and generally have a change of pace. This is a game with great scope and thatÆs the way it should be. Not a one trick wonder like WOW. If EVE was meant to be 24/7 PVP there would be no Concord, no security hits or any other penalties for PVP in high sec.
High sec is also intended as a reasonably safe place for miners/producers/haulers to make a living. They all make stuff I would like to buy and if they quit youÆll get a taste of what things are like in SWG where you have to grind for hours if not days to buy simple things simply because everything costs so much. ThatÆs not good for anybody.
So how do we deal with this? Well thereÆs the legitimate yet boring solution of making Concord tougher, nerfing insurance payouts and so forth but IÆm for being creative: Give Freighters capital ship weapons, armor, modules and the associated stats to use them.
LetÆs be logical for a second. In the really real world nobody sent an unarmed ship loaded down with goodies across the ocean for anybody who cared to run a Jolly Roger up the mast to steal. They guarded these things pretty extensively: http://www.cindyvallar.com/galleons.html
Quick summation: The average Spanish galleon loaded with Aztec gold and other New-world loot set sail with 30 cannons and 180 marines aboard. ôFreightersö of their time were fairly heavily armed.
Why should freighters in EVE be any different? Why wouldnÆt you protect a billion dollar investment with the best weapons and shields/armor you can buy? To suggest otherwise is kind of silly; people in real life donÆt leave cash and valuables unguarded why should they in EVE.
This turns high-sec griefing into simple piracy. Any pirate trying to take a tanked and armed freighter is going to have a devil of a time doing it. ThatÆs the way it should be. If you want to smash open the treasure chest to get the glittering prizes inside youÆre going to have to work for it. AND youÆre going to work very fast because Concord is on the way. If you think thatÆs unfair think about how much luck a bunch of mercenaries would have trying to break into Fort Knox. The Army would be on the way and would likely kill the lot of them if they werenÆt very fast and very lucky. Again this is fairly realistic. Sailing into civilization where the legitimate navy has warships on patrol might well get you killed. ThatÆs why pirates attacked people on the high seas (i.e. low-sec;) where no help was likely to come.
Using that analogy if you show up with 30 dominixes you can no longer insta-pop the Freighter. Conversely; the Freighter being huge can instapop any given Dominix. The Domis have to get in close, and nos the crap out of the freighter, drone *****and hope for the best. Risky but it might well be doable for the right pirate gang.
In the ideal world youÆd have to board the freighter; subdue the crew and off load the goods to your transport ships but until walking in stations and associated mechanics become a reality I doubt weÆre going to see that happen.
For the moment I think this restores the balance somewhat. Freighters will hold vast rewards for bold pirates; but they will be difficult and defensible transports for cagey merchant captains.
What they wonÆt be is easy pickings for griefers seeking an ôI win!ö button and cash resister; thatÆs the way it ought to be. TheyÆre always crying about how earning ISK shouldnÆt be easy; well that applies to them as well.
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.06.17 02:14:00 -
[384]
I would have thought that after a month of nothing happening on this subject, including nobody even posting in this thread anymore, people would realize that this just is not a problem.
How many pages back did you have to go to even find the thread again after 20+ days since its last post?
When even the carebears stopped complaining, you know there's no need to fix anything here.
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Zeko Rena
Caldari
Tangent Technologies
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Posted - 2007.06.17 02:37:00 -
[385]
Edited by: Zeko Rena on 17/06/2007 02:37:05
lol
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Big boys, with big gun's |
SasRipper
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2007.06.17 02:53:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Siege
I would have thought that after a month of nothing happening on this subject, including nobody even posting in this thread anymore, people would realize that this just is not a problem.
How many pages back did you have to go to even find the thread again after 20+ days since its last post?
When even the carebears stopped complaining, you know there's no need to fix anything here.
WOW YOU REASON NECROING GO YOU!
*snip* Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked. |
Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.06.17 03:04:00 -
[387]
Originally by: SasRipper
Originally by: Siege
I would have thought that after a month of nothing happening on this subject, including nobody even posting in this thread anymore, people would realize that this just is not a problem.
How many pages back did you have to go to even find the thread again after 20+ days since its last post?
When even the carebears stopped complaining, you know there's no need to fix anything here.
WOW YOU REASON NECROING GO YOU!
Errr.... I was the one replying to the necro, not the one performing it.
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Neue Ziel
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Posted - 2007.06.17 18:32:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Siege
I would have thought that after a month of nothing happening on this subject, including nobody even posting in this thread anymore, people would realize that this just is not a problem.
How many pages back did you have to go to even find the thread again after 20+ days since its last post?
When even the carebears stopped complaining, you know there's no need to fix anything here.
Still on the front one for me; and I disagree there's 'no need to fix anything.'
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.06.17 19:53:00 -
[389]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 17/06/2007 19:52:43
Originally by: big mang
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/05/2007 23:26:10
Originally by: Dolika
Fact is the current state allows for very small risk vs immense reward and should be fixed asap no matter how much you try to advocate for your lowsec pirating style of play bringing that kind of play into highsec will influence a vast majority of the community in a very negative way. Victims via the loss of their assets and the rest via a massive decline in quality of the supply and a general increase in prices which will hurt new players also because the first BS will cost say 20% more than it does now and a T2 fittings will again cost more than the ship itself does.
New characters are perfectly at liberty to produce/trade/haul.
The Big Freighter pilots who haul billions of units across the galaxy can aford to make 1 isk profit per unit and still come out a billion isk up.
The new players looking to make a living by trade are immedialty gimped by the greater buying/selling/hauling power.
If Battleships go up in price by 20% and prices are no longer uniform - It opens up a whole new world to newer producers - who are not instantly undercut. And the newer traders - there will be good isk profit it hauling stuf in your Iteron.
Fregither pilots must adapt. Alternativly i hear whining on the forums works sometimes.
I applaud those who stand up for the little man by ganking freighters. I applaud the ganking of freighters - the pilots of whom skulk in npc corps - as they use their vast wealth and hauling power to deny noobs trade/production options. Their symbiotic realtionship with the few large producers deserves everything it gets.
They are the real life equivalnet of the giant chains of superstores, and giant farms - who CRUSH the life out of the independant trader.
SKUNK
the lord ganking and exploit alliance in the game supports freighter ganking IM sooooo shocked, seriously privateers get out of jita and let CCP fix the lag there, if you are carrying things not in containers in a freighter your plain stupid
On the plus side - whoever necrod this post gave me the opportunity to call this guy a blithering idiot. Totally ignored all my well laid out and 100% forumpwning points
SKUNK
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Devious
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Posted - 2007.06.18 11:41:00 -
[390]
Well time to put my two cents in, and i know those Dev's do listen to me. many idea's ive put forward have become reality, for freighters dont give them low slots or mid slots or even high slots. Give them Reinforced mode. Strontium reinforced like those dreads have. the ability to take a pounding while not going anywhere for about 10 minutes. goodbye freighter gank squads , hello Active Piloting of these slow ships, anyone that plonks a freighter on autopilot has to much free time in eve and deserves to be ganked, a simple module that when a pilot is awake and flying the freighter can turn on. End of Topic really.
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