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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Exortius Amarrus The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.05 18:47:00 - [301] I really don't give a damn about CCPs profits, hence this = win. Cash for ISK sucks. Of course, CCP will now make a killing as many people attempt to stock up on isk, as the source is about to dry up. ------------------------
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.05.05 18:56:00 - [302] Originally by: Craam Hustler Originally by: Baji Core I do like this, but from a business perspective... huh? Is CCP really throwing away that money "for the good of the community?" I feel like something is being left out here. The gametime will probably be fairly expensive, it will probably serve as an ISK sink as well, and deflation is probably important to CCP. Guess what? If it's expensive, it's a gift to the ISK sellers. //Maya
Ciphero Exiled.	Posted - 2007.05.05 19:06:00 - [303] A first post that has my tired brain all addled, and a last page that doesn't answer my questions; can anyone give me a yes/no to the following? 1. Are CCP going to start selling game time codes for ISK? 2. Are players still going to be able to sell GTCs for ISK as they do currently? Thanks.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 19:11:00 - [304] Originally by: Ciphero A first post that has my tired brain all addled, and a last page that doesn't answer my questions; can anyone give me a yes/no to the following? 1. Are CCP going to start selling game time codes for ISK? 2. Are players still going to be able to sell GTCs for ISK as they do currently? Thanks. 1. We think so. (not sure) 2. Doesn't look like it. (not sure) I REALLY think Kieron needs to come in and clear this up.
Ciphero Exiled.	Posted - 2007.05.05 19:15:00 - [305] Originally by: Marquis Dean 1. We think so. (not sure) 2. Doesn't look like it. (not sure) Thanks. Assuming Marquis is right, this is right up there in the list of mystifying ideas. We all know CCP like isk sinks, but they've just gone and put together a comfy way for GTC/ISK trading on the Account Management page. Why endorse the idea so warmly if they are to ban it shortly after? I thought the GTC for ISK thing was a wonderful addition to the game. Miners and ratters have the resources to go and pew pew when they want. With GTC trading, pewpewers had the ability (at a cost, admittedly) to feed their habit without resorting to activities they didn't enjoy. So much for that.
Stella Stardust	Posted - 2007.05.05 19:44:00 - [306] Edited by: Stella Stardust on 05/05/2007 19:41:26 Seems Kieron was more clear in the original thread, before he decided to "clear it up" in this thread... Here it seems more like the issue is people farming ISK, trading it for a code, and then reselling that code for RL cash, resulting in using the game as a moneymaking machine in traditional gold farmer style. But that the direct trade ISK for gametime directly between two players, will be allowed to continue through CCP accounting. Post from previous thread (think it was called "MOTD") (formatting is mine) ---------------- As for your question, some of the former, some of the latter.In regards to the comments about ISK for GTCs for Cash, we are putting the final touches on a billing solution that will replace the ISK/GTC/Cash system. Game time for ISK will no longer be a supported option and phased out. -------------- later post: Some clarification is in order, I left out some important parts of the system.Game Time for ISK will still be a legit transaction, but a transaction that will take place within Account Management. There will not be a middleman purchasing GTCs for resale for ISK.As with any major change, there will be unhappiness and some members of the community will go on to another game. That is unavoidable, but the change being worked on is for the greater good of the community. ------------------------
Nines Tslaruk Minmatar North Face Force	Posted - 2007.05.05 20:08:00 - [307] Edited by: Nines Tslaruk on 05/05/2007 20:06:19 Originally by: PDoggy I VERY MUCH protest this. This was a great way for casual players to enjoy EVE without the money grind and PvP to their hearts' content and I predict you will lose a SIGNIFICANT number of accounts over this. Exactly how I feel. I have npced, mined, built ships, traded etc. At this point, the only thing I enjoy in EVE is pvping with my corp mates. If I npc or some other form of short-term isk making, I can make enough isk to pvp half of my game time. If I trade or produce to make large amounts of isk, I have no time for pvp. Why should I have to grind isk multiple hours each day and burn up hours of my free time to only be able to do something enjoyable part of the time? Eliminating the selling of GTC for isk, through CCP or anyone else, will kill the casual gamer: myself included. ------------------- NFF Recruitment http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465085
Plasticine Perfection	Posted - 2007.05.05 21:05:00 - [308] Woah woah woah, so let's see what's happening here. CCP allow people to buy ISK via GTC's. This goes on for a LONG time, despite repeated protestations about the dangers of turning EVE into an RMT game. Large alliances get involved and the sums changing hands, both ISK sums and real-life cash sums start to get very, VERY big. CCP changes their minds FINALLY after over a year of double standards - saying on the one hand (and I QUOTE a senior GM) "buying your way ahead in EVE is cheating, period" while allowing, condoning and protecting GTC sales. And there's outcry? No! Really?!!!! FOR ****S SAKE CCP you reap what you sow. You turned EVE into an RMT game and now you expect there to be no backlash when you suddenly turn 180 degrees? I'm very, very glad to see the end of RMT in EVE. It cheapened the game, it made you look like fools, but the way you've handled this is appalling. You deserve to lose a lot of subscribers over this.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.05.05 21:59:00 - [309] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/05/2007 21:58:19 Hardly. This is pushing RMT back into a situation where players will be scammed and cheated, and also RMT will NOT profit CCP as previously. CCP's previous stance was sensible. Inflating the ebay price again ISN'T. That will be the sum total effect of this change. They're going to lose subs, yes, the people they'll be banning for buying from ebay, where formerly they used GTC's. This change is a moral stance by CCP, which only hurts the players and their own bottom line. CCP, don't confuse "for the good of the playerbase" for "for how we, morally, feel things should work". This is not good for anyone except Yantis. He must be laughing his head off. //Maya
pyschosis	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:01:00 - [310] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn The only way I can afford to PvP is to buy GTCs and sell them for in game ISK. I don't do it that often, but I still do it to pay the bills! dont the the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Good riddance to leeches like you. If you want something in Eve. A POS, an Outpost, a Faction ship, anything at all.. YOU EARN IT IN EVE. not by plopping down cash to gain an 'unnatural' advantage over those who are ACTUALLY PLAYING IN GAME. Cheers again CCP. This isn't a FPS where you simply respawn by feeding the machine another dollar bill.. you have to learn to create, maintain and manage your supply lines. This change finally reinforces long term play over the 'Counterstrike wanna be's' Sad that griefers like this have no problem preying on those who are trying to 'earn an Eve Living'. Every hauler, miner, ratter you killed while claiming to be a 'might PvP warrior' mean absolutely nothing except you know how to charge a credit card in RL.

Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:02:00 - [311] I'd like to see them create a GTC type market. Game time is bought directly from CCP, and added to your account. You can place some of that time for sale on a market at a set price in Isk. Anyone can buy that time, and it is credited directly to their account. Isk, minus a 5% CCP market fee, is deposited to the seller. No codes that can be transfered out of game = no profiting on the sales. It still allows people to trade isk for time, still allows people to sell time for isk. Resellers could still buy time and resell for higher isk, but couldn't change it to out-of-game money as easily.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:21:00 - [312] Originally by: pyschosis Sad that griefers like this have no problem preying on those who are trying to 'earn an Eve Living'. Every hauler, miner, ratter you killed while claiming to be a 'might PvP warrior' mean absolutely nothing except you know how to charge a credit card in RL. Lol. You get scammed or something?
pyschosis	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:43:00 - [313] no i'm smarter than that. it is that it these are two separate games entirely. One depends on long term planning, coordination, and the establishment of mutual support systems. You actually have to build or buy (and earn using ingame mechanics) everything you use/lose in Combat. Loses actually affect your ability to continue to fight if you haven't planned a support structure to resupply continually. The other is a 'coin' operated pwnmobile. Die as many time as you like and 'respawn' using the proverbial 'daddy's wallet' to refund your losses. It means your actual 'supply lines' are completely untouchable, all the while the majority of your prey is the relatively 'defenseless' ships playing the 'other' game. if CCP wants to support a 'pay per loss, rebuy your pwnmobile for 200.00' it should be a separate server entirely. Where the only thing that matters is how much you are willing to spend to say you 'won'.
Kairi Elan FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:45:00 - [314] Edited by: Kairi Elan on 05/05/2007 22:43:10 Edited by: Kairi Elan on 05/05/2007 22:42:49 What everyone seems to be missing here is that CCP through a variety of potential changes that have been discussed in detail in the Dev Blogs (read them please people everything makes so much more sense) they are seeking to: Cripple the macromining profession by removing all stationary asteroid belts. Read the dev blog about how every ship will have limited exploration capabilities. REMOVE T2 BPOs ENTIRELY in favor of the invention system. Everyone should have known about this for a while now, why are people still complaining about T2 BPOs? Encourage the small gang PvP where people actually have fun. The game is supposed to be about PvP, but crashing a node isn't player vs. player, it's player vs. server. Make EVE resources the product of EVE effort, not Ebay effort. The account management page would gain an option similar to a new type of subscription, where you could deduct X isk from one of your characters accounts to purchase a month of gametime. The only reason they are keeping GTCs around AT ALL is to not penalize people who have already spent money on them. There are a lot of changes planned for the future of EVE, and if they get implemented correctly the only people who get hurt will be the ones who were exploiting the game in the first place. Revelations 2 & 3 FTW
Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:54:00 - [315] Originally by: pyschosis Originally by: Felysta Sandorn The only way I can afford to PvP is to buy GTCs and sell them for in game ISK. I don't do it that often, but I still do it to pay the bills! dont the the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Good riddance to leeches like you. If you want something in Eve. A POS, an Outpost, a Faction ship, anything at all.. YOU EARN IT IN EVE. not by plopping down cash to gain an 'unnatural' advantage over those who are ACTUALLY PLAYING IN GAME. Cheers again CCP. This isn't a FPS where you simply respawn by feeding the machine another dollar bill.. you have to learn to create, maintain and manage your supply lines. This change finally reinforces long term play over the 'Counterstrike wanna be's' Sad that griefers like this have no problem preying on those who are trying to 'earn an Eve Living'. Every hauler, miner, ratter you killed while claiming to be a 'might PvP warrior' mean absolutely nothing except you know how to charge a credit card in RL. Someone's obviously been ganked recently and lost their hard earned navy raven... Someone else made the point better than me above, when they said some of us have jobs and real lives that take up most of our time, and when we do have the time to play EVE, we want to PvP. When you have to spend 4 hours PvEing to spend 1 hour PvPing, it makes the game no longer a game, but a chore. I'm not saying I spent thousands on GTCs to buy the best faction ship and a POS for myself. If I did, I'd be flying better ships than the Absolution for starters. To be frank, you're probably the kind of person that got awarded a t2 BPO like a Vagabond or something and think you've earnt it in some way for all the hard work you put in waiting for an offer from your research agent. How am I different from those sorts of people? They got given a free advantage over everyone else (the vagabond BPO owners must be trillionnaires by now). I work hard in real life and then put a little bit of that money in to EVE to get extra ISK. Latest Video, Click Here!
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:17:00 - [316] Originally by: pyschosis no i'm smarter than that. it is that it these are two separate games entirely. One depends on long term planning, coordination, and the establishment of mutual support systems. You actually have to build or buy (and earn using ingame mechanics) everything you use/lose in Combat. Loses actually affect your ability to continue to fight if you haven't planned a support structure to resupply continually. The other is a 'coin' operated pwnmobile. Die as many time as you like and 'respawn' using the proverbial 'daddy's wallet' to refund your losses. It means your actual 'supply lines' are completely untouchable, all the while the majority of your prey is the relatively 'defenseless' ships playing the 'other' game. if CCP wants to support a 'pay per loss, rebuy your pwnmobile for 200.00' it should be a separate server entirely. Where the only thing that matters is how much you are willing to spend to say you 'won'. You're so full of sht. Not everyone who sells GTCs for isk funds their entire game experience with it. That would be so expensive as to defy belief. I've sold about 500mil worth of GTCs in the year i've been playing, mostly cause I really wanted a Rattlesnake for no particular reason. Good for me, I spent a little rl cash (hardly any), someone got to play Eve for isk, and I got my Rattler. End of. No one* funds their whole game through GTC sales. And not everyone whom sells GTCs is a spoiled 12 year old with a rich 'daddy'. Some people actually work for their rl money!! I'm 20, it's no f*cking business of yours where I got my money and as long as CCP allows me to, i'll reserve the right to sell GTCs. But I don't because Eve doesn't mean so much to me that I need to spend hundreds of pounds on it, the monthly sub is plenty. Not that you care about any of this, cause you're probably some broke 25 year old who can't be bothered to get a job and hence has no money. Now who's being a presumptuous ass?
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:18:00 - [317] I'm still not entirely clear here. Are you saying that I can't sell GTC's purchased from the EVE site on to other EVE players? If that's the case, then i'm screwed. I have severe illnesses that prevent me from spending much time on EVE, and the time I do spend I enjoy because the GTC's mean I can have a comfortable (somewhat) money supply and just play the game. If I have misunderstood Kieron, please inform me. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Xatso	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:19:00 - [318] Just a suggestion - I realize there will never be a proven solution to this problem... 1) Trading of GTC for ISK should be strictly controlled and done in moderation. Currently there is no limit to the amount of ISK you can buy for RLC - translating into the ISK buyer having an unfair advantage over players who have made their ISK the 'hard and originally intended way'. 2) Take away the Dollar and Euro trading value of ISK by creating a more supportive playing environment for the casual Eve player - make piracy illegal and give more players access to 0.0 mining operations to support their PVP binges through effective mining and other ISK generating endeavors. 3) Scrap the BPO system completely and make ship designs available to some sort of manufacturing skill level for everyone.
Flynn Walker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:20:00 - [319] Originally by: Marquis Dean I spent a little rl cash (hardly any), someone got to play Eve for isk, and I got my Rattler. End of. Waaaaaah... I'm going to have to actually play EVE now to make ISK.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:23:00 - [320] Originally by: Flynn Walker Originally by: Marquis Dean I spent a little rl cash (hardly any), someone got to play Eve for isk, and I got my Rattler. End of. Waaaaaah... I'm going to have to actually play EVE now to make ISK. Waaaaaah I can't play 23/7 cause I have a life so I guess i'm screwed then.

Flynn Walker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:24:00 - [321] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Flynn Walker Originally by: Marquis Dean I spent a little rl cash (hardly any), someone got to play Eve for isk, and I got my Rattler. End of. Waaaaaah... I'm going to have to actually play EVE now to make ISK. Waaaaaah I can't play 23/7 cause I have a life so I guess i'm screwed then. Since when you you need to play 23/7 to make ISK.
Gorken	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:27:00 - [322] Originally by: CCP kieron Game Time codes will still be available for purchase, but the trade of game time codes for ISK will no longer be an approved payment option. This is the statement that has me scratching my head. So, does this mean that their are no real plans for EVE in the future? Is this a fix for the lag issue, as its clear you will lose subs over this no? Whats the deal?
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:31:00 - [323] Originally by: Flynn Walker Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Flynn Walker Originally by: Marquis Dean I spent a little rl cash (hardly any), someone got to play Eve for isk, and I got my Rattler. End of. Waaaaaah... I'm going to have to actually play EVE now to make ISK. Waaaaaah I can't play 23/7 cause I have a life so I guess i'm screwed then. Since when you you need to play 23/7 to make ISK. I can play 2/5 and still make enough isk to buy the parts for and build a capital. But it's going to take me 3 months. And I have only ever sold GTCs once, on a whim. Until recently I didn't have a problem with the PvE grind in order to afford things cause PvE was fun (sort of). But recently i've wanted to PvP, partially cause CCP have totally clusterf*cked PvE, but also because it was getting dull anyway. So how about this: now I don't want to kill npc blobs or mine digital rocks to make money. I just want the money now so I can play the rest of the game. If CCP are going to make a 4-month PvE grind mandantory before anyone embarks on a serious project they need to make PvE not suck. But it does, and this is a way around.
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:37:00 - [324] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 05/05/2007 23:33:52 Originally by: Felysta Sandorn To be frank, you're probably the kind of person that got awarded a t2 BPO like a Vagabond or something and think you've earnt it in some way for all the hard work you put in waiting for an offer from your research agent. So do I have a vaga BPO too Fely? Since I was making a similar point, apparently I do, according to you. Maybe you can remind me where I left it..? Originally by: Felysta Sandorn How am I different from those sorts of people? They got given a free advantage over everyone else (the vagabond BPO owners must be trillionnaires by now). I work hard in real life and then put a little bit of that money in to EVE to get extra ISK. Yes, all ten of them. Using stupidly small minorities as excuses to change game balance is retarded. T2 BPOs suck, yes, everybody knows this. They have invention to compete with now though, and will probably be removed in the future. The damage is done however and nothing can be done about it, but that's not an excuse to make things even more broken. You don't need to fly a HAC to have fun in the game. Why is a HAC any different from a cruiser? What does it do differently? Nothing. It has higher stats. An arbitrary number that only means something if your opponent has a similarly high number. If both you and your opponent are both flying HACs or both flying cruisers it's EXACTLY the same. You don't need a trillion ISK to PvP. And while I'm here - to those people who are saying GTC>ISK didn't hurt anyone. WRONG. 1. "Sure are a lot of farmers and macroers around. Wonder why there's so many of them all of a sudden?" Try - meeting the demand of the all those people buying ISK with cash? Macroers are not players. There's no point, the gains of their profession (ISK) will leave them banned. They're in it for the real cash - this is a job to them - and any process which legitimises and legalises the process of turning ISK into cash will increase their numbers. Sucks to be a miner or NPCer, but you got undercut by some macroer/farmer because some noob wanted to buy their way into the game. 2. "Everybody with ISK just grinded it. I have a life, better things to do than grinding, so buying ISK is justified." No. People don't get masses of ISK by grinding. I doesn't happen. Nobody became a multi-billioner by grinding lvl4s. They got it by holding 0.0 space with good ore or complexes or by manipulating EVE's player run market, which involves planning, teamwork, dedication and skill. 0.0 alliances have the logistics, 0.0 space and infrastructure that earns them the right to fly HACs and CS around. Sitting on your ass for your entire EVE life in Jita training skills before buying ISK and flying off into 0.0 does not grant you the same right. You have put none of the ingame effort in. 3. "I don't like to PvE for hours to fly a fancy ship! Make EVE more like that game, whatsitcalled... oh yeah, counterstrike! There's no lame PvE in that!" Guess what genius? Nobody else likes to grind either! It's there for a reason though - it stops EVE becoming some lame twitch based, point system obsessed, consequenceless piece of crap (cough). And how do you justify blowing up somebody else's ship which THEY'VE grinded for with a ship you threw money at to get? How do you justify all the time THEY'VE grinded going down the tube because you didn't want to? So now THEY have to pay because of YOU couldn't be bothered? That makes you a selfish ***, plain and simple. 4. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!* I swear, if there weren't laws against kicking babies in the head...
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:41:00 - [325] CCP lands a wrecking hit on Goonswarm for infinate damage.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:43:00 - [326] Originally by: Nero Scuro Macroers are not players. There's no point, the gains of their profession (ISK) will leave them banned. And that's where your argument fell apart. If CCP did something about the macros, they would have this problem. But CCP wants their sub money, so instead they devise ever-more convoluted means of trying to stop isk inflation while not actually tackling the cause of the problem. I subbed 5 different petitions about macros in my time in Eve, each and every one I followed up and nothing had been done. CCP doesn't ban macros, so cheap minerals flood the market and isk keeps getting sold. Nothing to do with GTCs, which are fine in their current shape. And on top of all that, I fail to see how: Swap cash for GTC. Swap GTC for isk. Swap isk for cash. actually makes any money.
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:43:00 - [327] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Flynn Walker Originally by: Marquis Dean I spent a little rl cash (hardly any), someone got to play Eve for isk, and I got my Rattler. End of. Waaaaaah... I'm going to have to actually play EVE now to make ISK. Waaaaaah I can't play 23/7 cause I have a life so I guess i'm screwed then. You must suck tremendous amounts of ass if you can't find the ISK to PvP with just a little bit of ingame effort (hint - there are ships other than carriers and CS).
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:44:00 - [328] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Flynn Walker Originally by: Marquis Dean I spent a little rl cash (hardly any), someone got to play Eve for isk, and I got my Rattler. End of. Waaaaaah... I'm going to have to actually play EVE now to make ISK. Waaaaaah I can't play 23/7 cause I have a life so I guess i'm screwed then. You must suck tremendous amounts of ass if you can't find the ISK to PvP with just a little bit of ingame effort (hint - there are ships other than carriers and CS). I want isk, but I want to PvP. So where exactly does the isk come from?
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:44:00 - [329] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Nero Scuro Macroers are not players. There's no point, the gains of their profession (ISK) will leave them banned. And that's where your argument fell apart. If CCP did something about the macros, they would have this problem. But CCP wants their sub money, so instead they devise ever-more convoluted means of trying to stop isk inflation while not actually tackling the cause of the problem. I subbed 5 different petitions about macros in my time in Eve, each and every one I followed up and nothing had been done. CCP doesn't ban macros, so cheap minerals flood the market and isk keeps getting sold. Nothing to do with GTCs, which are fine in their current shape. And on top of all that, I fail to see how: Swap cash for GTC. Swap GTC for isk. Swap isk for cash. actually makes any money. Swap GTC for cash on Ebay, which is legal and very profitable if you undercut CCP's GTC prices.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 23:45:00 - [330] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Nero Scuro Macroers are not players. There's no point, the gains of their profession (ISK) will leave them banned. And that's where your argument fell apart. If CCP did something about the macros, they would have this problem. But CCP wants their sub money, so instead they devise ever-more convoluted means of trying to stop isk inflation while not actually tackling the cause of the problem. I subbed 5 different petitions about macros in my time in Eve, each and every one I followed up and nothing had been done. CCP doesn't ban macros, so cheap minerals flood the market and isk keeps getting sold. Nothing to do with GTCs, which are fine in their current shape. And on top of all that, I fail to see how: Swap cash for GTC. Swap GTC for isk. Swap isk for cash. actually makes any money. Swap GTC for cash on Ebay, which is legal and very profitable if you undercut CCP's GTC prices. Right, so I buy a GTC for $15, and sell it for less than $15. Genius.



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