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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Griffinator Gallente Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:02:00 - [241] Originally by: Mox Trident Quote: In the future, CCP will introduce a billing solution replacing the current system that allows the purchase of game time from third parties for in-game ISK This is the part that some people have missed. The way I read it is that you will no longer be able to buy GTC's from third parties like shatteredcrystal.com or ebay. From now on you'll buy your GTC directly from CCP through account management. This is how I think it will work: Player A will purchase a GTC for RL cash from CCP. Player A will be given an option to either use the GTC himself or sell it to player B for ISK. When player B buys a GTC from a seller, the GTC is automatically added to his subscription time. This prevents player B from re-selling the GTC out of game for RL cash. This way CCP get the RL cash, all transactions are through account management, and third party middlemen are removed from the equation altogether. in my opinion this would be the best and in fact easiest option boys and girls, btw keiron just so you know your original post was about as clear as a urine test after a stag night in amsterdam, a lot of us myself included as you can see from here and the amount of postage on this matter, are extreamly confused upon what exactly you meant. but this chap i quoted has the best idea tbh good goin mox

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:03:00 - [242] This could potentially mean that those of us who buys GTC's off american sites (since it's cheaper vs the euro price) would get forced into buying european gtc's via cpp ending up paying a lot more again because of the european VAT system, that doesn't sounds too good in my ears. Either way it may turn out just fine, we'll see when some additional info is thrown at us on how the new system will work. /c Help me help you .

Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:04:00 - [243] Edited by: Kerfira on 05/05/2007 11:06:01 Edited by: Kerfira on 05/05/2007 11:03:24 Originally by: ToxicFire Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... Your assumption forgot the fact ccp already has a secure gtc for isk trading system in place as part of the accounts section. The op clearly states that there getting rid of the current system that allows gtc and isk sales via third parties and that isk rich players will be able to buy gtc from ccp directly. Could be. I've never bought/sold ISK/GTC so I don't know their current system. However, apply just a minimum of common sense to your last statement.... There is NO way (according to any business logic I know of), that'll allow ANY commercial company to basically GIVE AWAY their product...... EDIT: If I understand correctly, the current system is still dependent on a lot of 'outside' communication between seller and buyer (i.e. to find each other). If CCP implements a complete system, this'll not be needed. 2nd EDIT: I looked at the secure transfer system in the user account system. While this does provide secure transfer, it doesn't do anything at all about the scenario I described in my OP (#240) which outlines a way in which an alliance could get free ISK. This is what I think they primarily wish to get rid of.
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:17:00 - [244] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 05/05/2007 11:16:02 Disappointing thread. Still see people believing that you can get gametime for isk from CCP and that this will be the whole story. CCP throwing money out of the window, no isk buying anymore. Sounds stupid and so I don't believe that this will be the whole story. If I assume that Kieron means it like he said that we can purchase gametime for isk directly from CCP, then I think either we will be able to purchase isk directly from CCP too as an account service or you can chose different subscription models later like a premium service that includes maybe something like xxx million isk. The only other alternative that I see is that 'directly from CCP' was not really meant like many understood it and that the isk still goes to another customer in exchange for gametime, but with CCP sitting in the middle and no gtcs involved. Kieron said with no word if isk purchasing will or won't be supported in any form in the future. I say it will in some form and the revenues from that will go to CCP, so don't be afraid that CCP throws money out of the window.
Angelo Dell'Agio	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:18:00 - [245] So, hang on. Essentially this is removing the real life value of the transaction involved. So, this isn't about an ISK sink, it is about preventing people from making RL money from EVE unless they are a registered and authorised reseller. Now, the next time an alliance has a problem with customer support, what is stopping them from switching 2500 subscribers from their creditcard to GTC's for isk via CCP directly taking away the real life value of those GTC's for a few months until they see a bug fixed?
Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:19:00 - [246] From what sense I can make out of the OP: You can buy Game Time from CCP for ISK You can not sell Game Time for ISK You are still not allowed to buy ISK from the likes of Ebay etc. That is all. Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:23:00 - [247] Read it 4 times, still doesn't make sense. 1. If CCP wants to do this and not lose tons of cash, they would need to set the isk price of gametime very high. Something like a billion for 30 days. 2. But if they do this, for the people who used to pay 150m isk for 30 days with GTCs (i.e. poor players with enough time) that breaks the game. 3. At the same time, for rich players wanting to buy isk with $, they can turn to the black market. And its very hard to determine who is an isk seller. How would CCP for example deal with someone who agreed to buy 1b isk from a website, but instead of just transferring the isk ingame, they agree to let the guy buying the isk put up a megathron on sale for 1.1 billion, name it 'Vindicator' and the isk seller 'accidentally' buying it for that price. There. 1.1 Billion changed hands ingame and you can't prove it was part of an iskselling deal. 4. It enables more pressure to be put on CCP. At the moment I think there are quite a few disgruntled veterans in Eve, who might want to express their dissatisfaction with CCP's handling of certain situations, but don't want to leave Eve just yet. They could massively shift their subscriptions to a 'isk for time' deal, paid for by their reserves to squeeze CCP hard on monthly revenue. All in all, I really don't see how this is gonna be smart. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Angelo Dell'Agio	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:25:00 - [248] Originally by: Sorted From what sense I can make out of the OP: You can buy Game Time from CCP for ISK You can not sell Game Time for ISK You are still not allowed to buy ISK from the likes of Ebay etc. That is all. That is the way I read it as well. But it also means that there is a lot of RL money lost in the cycle, depending on the volume of transactions. Someone has to pay for the GTC's, at the end of the day someone has to actually pay with real life money. So say I switch to GTC's for ISK in this new mechanism, and I buy the GTC's directly from CCP under account management, who is paying the RL money equivalent to CCP? CCP itself in a way. Now if I select an autorised reseller instead, CCP will have to pay that reseller the real life value essentially, after converting the ISK to dollars basically. So, a lot of RL financial transaction value is essentially lost, unless I am missing something. If this is the case, what is stopping a disgruntled bunch of alliances from switching to GTC's from ISK from complexes and as such cutting drastically into the monthly revenue cycle of actual currency?
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:32:00 - [249] I'd pay an extra $5 a month if it meant CCP hired someone to release information clearly.
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:40:00 - [250] Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 05/05/2007 11:39:22 Banning the selling of GTC's for RL cash sound illegal to me. A GTC is a RL item with ownership rights, just the same as any other item you purchase in any shop. Once you buy it, it's yours and yours to do with as you please. Awating confirmation on this babble. The other way I read it is CCP are going to force me to start buying GTC's in Euro's. If that happens I'll be leaving. No way am I paying more than I should be.
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:41:00 - [251] Originally by: Sorted From what sense I can make out of the OP: You can buy Game Time from CCP for ISK You can not sell Game Time for ISK You are still not allowed to buy ISK from the likes of Ebay etc. That is all. Yes, and Kieron claimed with no word completeness for his post. That it isn't mentioned, how things will look like for the rich casual gamer, who wants isk and is willing to spend cash for it, doesn't mean that CCP doesn't offer them a new means to do so without gtcs as an intermediate step. Put those rich casual gamers, who want isk as an extra service that they are willing to pay for into the equation and CCP offering them that means and it all makes sense. CCP doesn't throw money out of the window, they can even make profit with this change.
Semtex'o Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:47:00 - [252] Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Originally by: Sorted From what sense I can make out of the OP: You can buy Game Time from CCP for ISK You can not sell Game Time for ISK You are still not allowed to buy ISK from the likes of Ebay etc. That is all. Yes, and Kieron claimed with no word completeness for his post. That it isn't mentioned, how things will look like for the rich casual gamer, who wants isk and is willing to spend cash for it, doesn't mean that CCP doesn't offer them a new means to do so without gtcs as an intermediate step. Put those rich casual gamers, who want isk as an extra service that they are willing to pay for into the equation and CCP offering them that means and it all makes sense. CCP doesn't throw money out of the window, they can even make profit with this change. CCP wouldn't make a profit from this simply because they would get paid in virtual money for their timecodes. And it doesn't take a genius to look that GTCs are wanted looking at all those sell orders in the trade section and how fast they are getting sold.
Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:47:00 - [253] i was just stating what was said, not what wasnt, which is a whole lot. There may well be alternatives for the ISK buyers, there may not be. I dont know what they have planned for the future, and from the content in the OP neither do the DEVs Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
AsmodeaN Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:52:00 - [254] So basically because BoB have lost most of the complexes they used to rent out/run themselves/whatever and have lost a large chunk of their income, ccp have decided to give them a new income source? You sending them the ISK directly or going around the houses some?
Whu FlungPoo	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:55:00 - [255] Edited by: Whu FlungPoo on 05/05/2007 11:52:48 PVPer read this! What you are failing to understand, is that your funding of your PVP adventures with your real world cash is turning the game one sided. You dont stay in your own space and fight other real world money funded PVPers, you sneak around cloaked and prey on the ones trying to live every aspect of the game. You dont fight each other, you seek out weaker targets, and then feel proud. You lose a ship and pull out the Visa to buy another, while I have to go hide in a belt for 4 days to build the one you blew up when I was just trying to run a mission. I had no beef with you. But you go around like a serial killer and blow up everything you can target. I leave with this question for you PVPers to ask yourself. What about your real life makes you need to destroy others work?
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:57:00 - [256] Originally by: Whu FlungPoo PVPer read this! What you are failing to understand, is that your funding of your PVP adventures with your real world cash is turning the game one sided. You dont stay in your own space the fight other real world money funded PVPers, you sneak around cloaked and prey on the ones trying to live every aspect of the game. You dont fight each other, you seek out weaker targets, and then feel proud. You lose a ship and pull out the Visa to buy another, while I have to go hide in a belt for 4 days to build the one you blew up when I was just trying to run a mission. I had no beef with you. But you go around like a serial killer and blow up everything you can target. I leave with this question for you PVPers to ask yourself. What about your real life makes you need to destroy others work? ... so everyone who has ever sold a GTC is a Recon-piloting griefer? Seriously stfu. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:58:00 - [257] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 05/05/2007 11:56:11 Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 05/05/2007 11:55:01 Originally by: Semtex'o Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Originally by: Sorted From what sense I can make out of the OP: You can buy Game Time from CCP for ISK You can not sell Game Time for ISK You are still not allowed to buy ISK from the likes of Ebay etc. That is all. Yes, and Kieron claimed with no word completeness for his post. That it isn't mentioned, how things will look like for the rich casual gamer, who wants isk and is willing to spend cash for it, doesn't mean that CCP doesn't offer them a new means to do so without gtcs as an intermediate step. Put those rich casual gamers, who want isk as an extra service that they are willing to pay for into the equation and CCP offering them that means and it all makes sense. CCP doesn't throw money out of the window, they can even make profit with this change. CCP wouldn't make a profit from this simply because they would get paid in virtual money for their timecodes. I really wonder, how far you guys think. Model 1: - CCP offers gametime for isk for the poor gamer with too much time. - CCP sells isk for cash or offers extra isk in form of a new premium service for the rich casual gamer. Balance the exchange rates out and you can keep inflation under control and make profit. Model 2: Player A buys gametime, transfers it via CCP as a middle man to Player B in exchange for isk. No GTCs involved in this transfer. Current model: Play A buys GTC and sells it for isk to player B. See, all 3 models offer gametime for isk, isk for cash, none of the models means a loss for CCP. Magic !
Whu FlungPoo	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:00:00 - [258] Ive bought GTCs and sold them. I didnt say anything like what you insenuated. But when you can go and wrecklessly lose 500m isk in ships in one day, and go buy some more time to do it over again exploits a flaw in the system.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:04:00 - [259] Originally by: AsmodeaN So basically because BoB have lost most of the complexes they used to rent out/run themselves/whatever and have lost a large chunk of their income, ccp have decided to give them a new income source? You sending them the ISK directly or going around the houses some? How did this suddenly become a BoB issue? Get over yourself. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Shayla Sh'inlux The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:10:00 - [260] Gonna be interesting to see how many accounts will get cancelled because they can no longer be payed for with ISK-bought GTC's. The amount of people that I personally know that pay with GTC's is astounding. I'd be surprised if even 20% of them would get the CC's charged again... Discussing moderation is a no-no - Tirg
Eviloution	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:14:00 - [261] Originally by: AsmodeaN So basically because BoB have lost most of the complexes they used to rent out/run themselves/whatever and have lost a large chunk of their income, ccp have decided to give them a new income source? You sending them the ISK directly or going around the houses some? What a moronic deluded post, if you really think this is how it is QUIT EVE, stop playing and do the rest of us a favor. Yes BoB lost their 10/10's while they are being fixed noone else did, thats clearly favortism that BoB lose billions of isk a week for the last month, grop up or go play WOW.
AsmodeaN Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:25:00 - [262] Originally by: Eviloution Originally by: AsmodeaN So basically because BoB have lost most of the complexes they used to rent out/run themselves/whatever and have lost a large chunk of their income, ccp have decided to give them a new income source? You sending them the ISK directly or going around the houses some? What a moronic deluded post, if you really think this is how it is QUIT EVE, stop playing and do the rest of us a favor. Yes BoB lost their 10/10's while they are being fixed noone else did, thats clearly favortism that BoB lose billions of isk a week for the last month, grop up or go play WOW. Wow cry more. People get really sensitive about these things dont they? I never said anything about them losing their 10/10's while they were fixed. afaik they have lost pretty much all of them to RA so ccp had nothing to do with their loss of income, infact thats probably why they got fixed eh? lol
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:26:00 - [263] Originally by: AsmodeaN Originally by: Eviloution Originally by: AsmodeaN So basically because BoB have lost most of the complexes they used to rent out/run themselves/whatever and have lost a large chunk of their income, ccp have decided to give them a new income source? You sending them the ISK directly or going around the houses some? What a moronic deluded post, if you really think this is how it is QUIT EVE, stop playing and do the rest of us a favor. Yes BoB lost their 10/10's while they are being fixed noone else did, thats clearly favortism that BoB lose billions of isk a week for the last month, grop up or go play WOW. Wow cry more. People get really sensitive about these things dont they? I never said anything about them losing their 10/10's while they were fixed. afaik they have lost pretty much all of them to RA so ccp had nothing to do with their loss of income, infact thats probably why they got fixed eh? lol You need to show your corp ticker before anyone will take you seriously. Even then... --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Heroldyn	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:45:00 - [264] well, this was an interesting read. its seems rather amusing to me tho, that people allways refer to the poor people having an unfair disadvantage compared to the people will real life income - doesnt time-rich poor players also have an unfair advantage over people with less free time ? both of theese kinds of people have advantages over each other due to their real-life environment. so you bascily have the choice to either allow thoose RL Conditions to affect the game (allow GTC->ISK and ISK->GTC trades) or to deny that by either disallowing ISK->GTC trades, forcing the unemployed time-rich playerbase to get a job in order to continue playing the game- or to restricted the amount of time people are allow to play it.
Stella Stardust	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:46:00 - [265] Of course CCP can pay their bills in ISK. They already do. http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic Saturday, May 5, 2007 1 Iceland Krona = 0.01160 Euro 1 Euro (EUR) = 86.21090 Iceland Krona (ISK) Interbank rate +/- 0% This means: You buy 1 Iceland Krona : 0.01160 Euro You sell 1 Iceland Krona : 0.01156 Euro You buy 1 Euro : 86.21090 Iceland Krona You sell 1 Euro : 86.49968 Iceland Krona Median price = 0.01156 / 0.01160 (bid/ask) Estimated price based on daily US dollar rates. Having that out of the way.... It would be nice with a clarification, because the OP makes no sense whatsoever.
Tom Shandy	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:50:00 - [266] Originally by: Roscoe Rhoads Edited by: Roscoe Rhoads on 05/05/2007 00:06:41 Last input from the mind of a GTC'er. I earn ~$65 per hour IRL. One hour of mindlessly boring ratting or mission running is at tops 100 million ISK. One GTC, with a ____MARKET ECONOMY THAT CCP WON'T BE ABLE TO MATCH____ costs me $15 for 120-160 million ISK. I play EVE Online for the PvP, and I will quit playing and quit giving CCP upwards $100 / month on my two accounts (which where gonna become three) when this is implemented - and I'm guessing thousands of others will too. I don't understand how you feel this is a good idea. cool, people that calculate how much thier time is worth need to get a life anyway, hope you find one soon outside of Eve. " The Coalition Vs BoD"
max bygraves	Posted - 2007.05.05 13:07:00 - [267] The only thing i can actually make out from this thread is that Crumplecorn is very poor IRL and is jealous of those around him with $ to burn.
katz3 Aliastra	Posted - 2007.05.05 13:21:00 - [268] Very good change. Death to all those fgt gtc resellers. ___________________
Tamer	Posted - 2007.05.05 13:22:00 - [269] Edited by: Tamer on 05/05/2007 13:18:04 1. Idea for removing confusion: ingame timecode trading. 1) The Player buys a code for dollars. 2) The Player has two variants of input of a code: for prolongation of an account and for purchase of an item "timecode" for his character. 3) The Player can sell a "timecode" item in the game market for ISK. 4) The Player can use "timecode" item for prolongation of the account (right click menu). 5) The Player can set Buy Order in market for "timecode" item. 2. Idea for removing confusion: website Stock Exchange. 1) The Player buys a code for dollars 2) The Player establishes the lead on The Website Stock Exchange, and establishes its ISK price. 3) Other player buys the cheapest lead at The Website Stock Exchange. --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s
Meren T'ia Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.05 13:29:00 - [270] so I have 3 accounts atm, does this mean I will not be able to pay for them with ISK made in game ? if SO ME = 1 Account there is no way im spending mor than $20 on a MMO just on principle. 1 aacount will do but I will get a little bpored but hey theres loads of other MMO's out there

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