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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Team Chk Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:28:00 - [61] Originally by: Hannisk Thanks CCP for fixing this huge issue that was causing massive damage to the game and ruining it for players everywhere. I'm also happy you got your priorities straight and fixed it before less important issues like: a) lag. Fleet fights being unplayable. b) fleet system causing lag. c) supercapitals. None of the above are important issues that need fixing, no not at all. Somtimes I really hate you CCP. It's called: procrastination
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:28:00 - [62] If this change is what I think it is, FANTASTIC! I have had concerns about players that have been doing this, and even asked questions by petition recently that confirmed that it was not a EULA violation. What people have been doing is buying GTCs with ISK then selling the GTCs on ebay for cash. Doing it that way is NOT a violation of the eula. I think what they are proposing is to get rid of the actual code itself, so that people can buy game time credit through the CCP web site and sell it for isk, but people cant buy codes and sell them on ebay for isk. I think they will handle 3rd party sales by either a referral program or a simple API so that reselling companies wont be affected. This plan is a great one, why? Ill give you an example.. There is one person in particular who does not actually play eve, they spend their whole day reselling GTCs, which makes them a fortune, 20-50m profit per GTC, and moving about 100 per day, these numbers are from the person's own info. Recently they started 50 new accounts, yes, 50, which they plan to train up, sell, buy GTCs with that ISK, and sell it on ebay. They mentioned in Jita local a few weeks ago that they forcast a net profit of $15,000 from this. That kind of thing is disgusting to me, so any change to make it harder is fantastic. The system CCP mentions could eliminate the problem competely if they make the system such that a GTC credit can only be sold for isk ONCE through the system, this would eliminate any way to buy them with ISK and resell them for cash. Overall, a good step by CCP.
Craam Hustler Gallente ReTech	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:29:00 - [63] Edited by: Craam Hustler on 04/05/2007 23:28:17 Originally by: Briana Flametop Originally by: Craam Hustler Not everyone will be able to afford the time codes, and those that may want to keep their ISK might rather pay with $$$$ They might just quit. Or buy ISK from the black market. Neither of these is good for the game, or for CCP. And they risk getting banned. Originally by: Ionia If this change is what I think it is, FANTASTIC! I have had concerns about players that have been doing this, and even asked questions by petition recently that confirmed that it was not a EULA violation. What people have been doing is buying GTCs with ISK then selling the GTCs on ebay for cash. Doing it that way is NOT a violation of the eula. I think what they are proposing is to get rid of the actual code itself, so that people can buy game time credit through the CCP web site and sell it for isk, but people cant buy codes and sell them on ebay for isk. I think they will handle 3rd party sales by either a referral program or a simple API so that reselling companies wont be affected. This plan is a great one, why? Ill give you an example.. There is one person in particular who does not actually play eve, they spend their whole day reselling GTCs, which makes them a fortune, 20-50m profit per GTC, and moving about 100 per day, these numbers are from the person's own info. Recently they started 50 new accounts, yes, 50, which they plan to train up, sell, buy GTCs with that ISK, and sell it on ebay. They mentioned in Jita local a few weeks ago that they forcast a net profit of $15,000 from this. That kind of thing is disgusting to me, so any change to make it harder is fantastic. The system CCP mentions could eliminate the problem competely if they make the system such that a GTC credit can only be sold for isk ONCE through the system, this would eliminate any way to buy them with ISK and resell them for cash. Overall, a good step by CCP. Yes, this was one of my biggest concerns. I petitioned about this very issue and I was shocked to have the GM say it was legit, they mentioned they didn't like it, but it was legit none the less. And there are some players that are very blatantly doing this.
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:30:00 - [64] It's the latest trend in the game biz. I hear Hasbro will now let you buy games with Monopoly money.
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:31:00 - [65] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: Hannisk Thanks CCP for fixing this huge issue that was causing massive damage to the game and ruining it for players everywhere. I'm also happy you got your priorities straight and fixed it before less important issues like: a) lag. Fleet fights being unplayable. b) fleet system causing lag. c) supercapitals. None of the above are important issues that need fixing, no not at all. Somtimes I really hate you CCP. Yeah, getting (for example) your POS you've worked hard to earn blown up by some kid who used daddy's credit card to buy a Dread isn't an issue at all. If I may say, using that argument, that kid would have to drop $500+ on ISK for a dread character alone, and $200+ for his dread and fittings. He won't know how to fly it for jack **** so it will be a free $700 kill for you and your corp. And really, how many parents are there that give their kids a thousand dollars to spend on a single video game? This argument comes up very often and is fallacious due to its extreme improbability. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
IlIlIlIlI IlIlIlIlI Hos B4 Bros	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:32:00 - [66] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy I VERY MUCH protest this. This was a great way for casual players to enjoy EVE without the money grind and PvP to their hearts' content and I predict you will lose a SIGNIFICANT number of accounts over this. This is why it is good. A major nerf to UT2K4 in space. Why oh WHY would you say this? I quit WoW because it became a horrible, ****ty grindfest past level 45. I play EVE for the PvP - I enjoy it and it's a great, unique experience. I don't like having to mine for six hours to fit out a HAC. EVE has always been very attractive to casual players with the GTCs and the offline skill training, and removing this is a slap in A) The face of casual MMO-players everywhere and B) CCP's accounting deparment. You don't have to mine. Having to buy your stuffs with RL money because you fail at Eve means, well, you fail at Eve. There is a reason the good stuff has to be earned. Don't circumvent the game's design. FFS. You are quite the moron. Not everybody is going to be able to make their money in-game without having to grind for it, not even all the people who don't want to grind their ISK are going to be able to because economy doesn't work that way. Unless you think the guy down at the corner gas station really wants to be working that job for $5.50 an hour.
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:32:00 - [67] Originally by: Ionia words Don't believe everything you hear in Jita local. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
Roscoe Rhoads Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:33:00 - [68] Originally by: Roscoe Rhoads snip- don't troll Wasn't trolling really as much as an honest and clear appraisal of CCP's recent moral fiber. To add content: holy cow are macro miners gonna get an upswing out of this! Also, I'm unsubbing my accounts ofcourse. -- Human action is purposeful behavior.
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:34:00 - [69] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy I VERY MUCH protest this. This was a great way for casual players to enjoy EVE without the money grind and PvP to their hearts' content and I predict you will lose a SIGNIFICANT number of accounts over this. This is why it is good. A major nerf to UT2K4 in space. Why oh WHY would you say this? I quit WoW because it became a horrible, **ty grindfest past level 45. I play EVE for the PvP - I enjoy it and it's a great, unique experience. I don't like having to mine for six hours to fit out a HAC. EVE has always been very attractive to casual players with the GTCs and the offline skill training, and removing this is a slap in A) The face of casual MMO-players everywhere and B) CCP's accounting deparment. You don't have to mine. Having to buy your stuffs with RL money because you fail at Eve means, well, you fail at Eve. There is a reason the good stuff has to be earned. Don't circumvent the game's design. FFS. Sometimes people with less free time play MMOs for the community but want the game to remain FUN**. Mining is not fun. You'll understand when you're out of high school/college. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:35:00 - [70] Originally by: IlIlIlIlI IlIlIlIlI Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy I VERY MUCH protest this. This was a great way for casual players to enjoy EVE without the money grind and PvP to their hearts' content and I predict you will lose a SIGNIFICANT number of accounts over this. This is why it is good. A major nerf to UT2K4 in space. Why oh WHY would you say this? I quit WoW because it became a horrible, ****ty grindfest past level 45. I play EVE for the PvP - I enjoy it and it's a great, unique experience. I don't like having to mine for six hours to fit out a HAC. EVE has always been very attractive to casual players with the GTCs and the offline skill training, and removing this is a slap in A) The face of casual MMO-players everywhere and B) CCP's accounting deparment. You don't have to mine. Having to buy your stuffs with RL money because you fail at Eve means, well, you fail at Eve. There is a reason the good stuff has to be earned. Don't circumvent the game's design. FFS. You are quite the moron. Not everybody is going to be able to make their money in-game without having to grind for it, not even all the people who don't want to grind their ISK are going to be able to because economy doesn't work that way. Unless you think the guy down at the corner gas station really wants to be working that job for $5.50 an hour. Opens with an insult, closes with a comparison to RL, and suggests in middle that Eve is supposed to cater to people who can't or won't play it the way it is designed to be played. Fail. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:35:00 - [71] Originally by: CCP kieron In essence, it will be possible for a time and ISK-rich, but financially challenged player to purchase game time directly from CCP. Game Time codes will still be available for purchase, but the trade of game time codes for ISK will no longer be an approved payment option. Either way, CCP loses a portion of their real-life income, while creating an ISK sink. Sounds like a noble thing to do, assuming it would do any good. So, let's see what good it does. 1. The issue of RMT-ers. True, they can no longer buy GTCs to resell for real money, so that avenue for income gets shot down. That however assumes this was alway the main method of RMTers to sell ISK... I somehow really doubt it. Sure, you get a larger "traceable footprint" in-game for them, and a higher chance of discovery, but you might end up rounding up people for EULA breaches where no actual breach took part on one hand, or not being able to catch actual EULA breachers masking their RMTs as, say corp theft, scamming or whatnot. 2. The issue of borderline-cheaters (pay $ to get GTC to get ISK) Right now, no matter how much you try to deny it, there are people playing simply because they are willing and able to pay real money to finance their expensive tastes, without having to resort to grinding. While a vast majority of players (myself included) don't like the idea that some people can get an in-game advantage just by spending more real-life money directly, you'd be hard-pressed to deny the fact there ARE legitimate loopholes for them to keep shifting money for ISK even if you cease the simple "via GTC" method (for instance, research alts churning out datacores, or pre-skilled but otherwise unused character sales). All it solves is make it more complicated, driving even more people to either purchase ISK from RMTers or just quit playing. 3. The issue of the time-rich, real-life-poor more or less casual player I can only assume the "going rates" for ISK-to-gametime conversions will not be as "forgiving" as the current GTC trade levels. I mean, come on, a highsec L4 missionrunner barely needs 20 to 30 hours of gametime to pay for a month of gametime with the current GTC trade rates. And don't get me started on traders or "profitable" T2 BPO manufacturers, or complex farmers, they barely have to "work" a day for that. Either way, this would only mean true casual players get shifted out, farmers get a free ride. The ones taxing the system play for free, the ones barely logging in but still providing (with current GTC rules) the same amount of income to CCP get phased out. So basically, you are shooting your own foot. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Craam Hustler Gallente ReTech	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:35:00 - [72] Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Ionia words Don't believe everything you hear in Jita local. I believe what I see with my eyes. I saw the same thing going on with my eyes. This person doesnt sleep and is online all day. So obviously they have to be making money somehow in order to live. And if they are in EVE 23/7, I dont see how they could make any money elsewhere.
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:35:00 - [73] I had an intense , but 2-tiered reaction to this... 1) Yay ! 2) ...wtf ?
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:37:00 - [74] Seriously CCP, somehow prevent people from re-selling GTCs bought with isk for RL cash, but do not ruin EVE for thousands of casual players. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:38:00 - [75] Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: Hannisk Thanks CCP for fixing this huge issue that was causing massive damage to the game and ruining it for players everywhere. I'm also happy you got your priorities straight and fixed it before less important issues like: a) lag. Fleet fights being unplayable. b) fleet system causing lag. c) supercapitals. None of the above are important issues that need fixing, no not at all. Somtimes I really hate you CCP. Yeah, getting (for example) your POS you've worked hard to earn blown up by some kid who used daddy's credit card to buy a Dread isn't an issue at all. If I may say, using that argument, that kid would have to drop $500+ on ISK for a dread character alone, and $200+ for his dread and fittings. He won't know how to fly it for jack **** so it will be a free $700 kill for you and your corp. And really, how many parents are there that give their kids a thousand dollars to spend on a single video game? This argument comes up very often and is fallacious due to its extreme improbability. It's an extreme example to prove a point. And your own point is invalid for many reasons; 1. You assume the person doesn't already have a dread capable character. I never said they didn't. 2. You assume they wouldn't know how to fly it. Again, I never said anything of the sort. Buying isk with cash != not knowing how to play the game. 3. The daddy's creditcard is a line used as insult to those who buy ISK. Chances are they are not really kiddies, chances are they're losers who take their game waaaaay too seriously, to the point they'll do anything to win, metagaming most definately included. 4. Again, it was an extreme example. If he buys a HAC and blows up my HAC I earned ingame, I'd be annoyed. He's circumnavigating my effort with his wallet. That's not on.
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:42:00 - [76] Originally by: Nero Scuro It's an extreme example to prove a point. And your own point is invalid for many reasons; 1. You assume the person doesn't already have a dread capable character. I never said they didn't. 2. You assume they wouldn't know how to fly it. Again, I never said anything of the sort. Buying isk with cash != not knowing how to play the game. 3. The daddy's creditcard is a line used as insult to those who buy ISK. Chances are they are not really kiddies, chances are they're losers who take their game waaaaay too seriously, to the point they'll do anything to win, metagaming most definately included. 4. Again, it was an extreme example. If he buys a HAC and blows up my HAC I earned ingame, I'd be annoyed. He's circumnavigating my effort with his wallet. That's not on. If he's been around long enough to be able to fly dreads, he very likely knows the game well enough to grind up the cash (at least partially) in a short amount of time, circumventing a spending of RL cash. Metagaming is already a huge part of EVE and an attractive quality - how many people have joined because of friends talking about the political landscape and spying and all that? I know I did. He put effort into getting the money for that HAC too, he just did it in one currency and then converted to another. And learn how to fly your HACs better :P - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:43:00 - [77] Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: PDoggy I VERY MUCH protest this. This was a great way for casual players to enjoy EVE without the money grind and PvP to their hearts' content and I predict you will lose a SIGNIFICANT number of accounts over this. This is why it is good. A major nerf to UT2K4 in space. Why oh WHY would you say this? I quit WoW because it became a horrible, **ty grindfest past level 45. I play EVE for the PvP - I enjoy it and it's a great, unique experience. I don't like having to mine for six hours to fit out a HAC. EVE has always been very attractive to casual players with the GTCs and the offline skill training, and removing this is a slap in A) The face of casual MMO-players everywhere and B) CCP's accounting deparment. You don't have to mine. Having to buy your stuffs with RL money because you fail at Eve means, well, you fail at Eve. There is a reason the good stuff has to be earned. Don't circumvent the game's design. FFS. Sometimes people with less free time play MMOs for the community but want the game to remain FUN**. Mining is not fun. You'll understand when you're out of high school/college. Eve is not the game they are looking for. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Al Thorr Caldari The Wheel	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:44:00 - [78] Sorry Im a tad slow - but when has isk become real currency aka IMF etc?? So ccp who( can manufacture isk at will) will sell to players , game time for isk. or are ccp going to add a currency conversion charge? I really would like to know ,where ccp are going get their "proper money" from, should, in the real, worst case scenario, everyone exchanges isk for game time ? Any way apologies for being slow Al Thorr "You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Provenance.	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:44:00 - [79] It's not financially sensible for CCP to sell game time for isk directly, not going to happen. It would be nice if this was clarified into a real description of the way the new transactions will work.
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Crumplecorn Eve is not the game they are looking for. It has been for several years, and an enjoyable one. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:46:00 - [81] Additionally, if CCP did this, how the HELL would the conversion rate be determined? - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
Firane 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:46:00 - [82] Its funny how all the ISK buyers (aka GTC resellers) are now worried about 'CCPs income'. You are only worried about now not being able to buy ISK. God forbid CCP take a step in the right direction for a small decline in profits. -----
Whalesaver mega mining corporation Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:47:00 - [83] Surely the obvious next step to this is that CCP will start selling isk for $ (I understand some Korean MMORPG's do this already) Revenue streams replaced, middlemen bite the dust and casual players essentially pay for hardcore players accounts. Win Win. ----------------------- Doesn't shoot first Will ask questions later And enjoys a nice cup of tea
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:47:00 - [84] I think youre all reading way too much in this. In practice, i read it as the current system NOT changing at all, other then that any and all GTC for isk trades will be going through the account management page, and that every buyer has to either use the gtc himself right away, or sell it to someone that uses it right away or something like that. There will be no more reselling of gtc's by players. Buying isk indirectly would still work, but selling isk for cash wholesale by using gtc's as go-between would not. It's like, a method to keep tabs on whose selling how many gtc's to whom for what isk. Sounds pretty logical to me, especially if they plan on taking it further at a later stage. Oh, but it's not exactly comforting to see that CCP somehow equate this with something that increases their ability to stop the sale of isk for rl cash. For some unfathomable reason there's still absolute craploads of farming going on, while there should be alot less market for all that isk. Who is buying all that isk that doesn't go through gtc's ? [center] Old blog
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:48:00 - [85] Originally by: PDoggy Originally by: Crumplecorn Eve is not the game they are looking for. It has been for several years, and an enjoyable one. No, if they get their stuffs using RL money, it's not. Eve is a lot about earning the stuff you have, it can be quite satisfying. You'll understand that when you're out of high school/college. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Roscoe Rhoads Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:48:00 - [86] Last input from the mind of a GTC'er. I earn ~$65 per hour IRL. One hour of mindlessly boring ratting or mission running is at tops 100 million ISK. One GTC, with a ____MARKET ECONOMY THAT CCP WON'T BE ABLE TO MATCH____ costs me $15 for 120-160 million ISK. I play EVE Online for the PvP, and I will quit playing and quit giving CCP upwards $100 when this is implemented - and I'm guessing thousands of others will too. I don't understand how you feel this is a good idea. -- Human action is purposeful behavior.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:48:00 - [87] Originally by: CCP kieron [stuff] that will hopefully clear up some of the confusion created earlier. Actually, it confuses us even more. As most of us understand, you just said people can buy gametime from CCP with ISK. For the most of us, the ones that understood it like that, IT MAKES NO SENSE. If you somehow mean that you will make it able to transfer gametime from char A to char B in exchange for some ISK going from char B to char A, then say it like that. That one makes sense to a degree, but it's not what you said. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
PDoggy Minmatar Valid Character Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:51:00 - [88] Kieron you're a really nice guy and I don't mean any offense at all by this but please run announcement posts like this by someone with a more comprehensive grasp of English grammar, these threads always devolve into 20-page circular arguments about what exactly you meant. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris
IlIlIlIlI IlIlIlIlI Hos B4 Bros	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:51:00 - [89] Originally by: Crumplecorn Eve is not the game they are looking for. No, Eve as you perceive it is not the game he's looking for. You however are an idiot so its not much of a stretch to realize that you have zero clue what the hell you're talking about, and can safely be ignored on that fact. As far as your pathetic attempt to wittily reply to my earlier attempt at educating you on realities, economy doesn't care about in-game or out of game. The fact remains that there are not enough "high-end" jobs where you don't end up grinding for your money that everyone who so wishes them can have one, thats a basic premise of having something to lose in the game. Unfortunately you're too retarded to understand that fact.
Smelly Kelly	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:51:00 - [90] Originally by: Rod Blaine I think youre all reading way too much in this. In practice, i read it as the current system NOT changing at all, other then that any and all GTC for isk trades will be going through the account management page, and that every buyer has to either use the gtc himself right away, or sell it to someone that uses it right away or something like that. There will be no more reselling of gtc's by players. Buying isk indirectly would still work, but selling isk for cash wholesale by using gtc's as go-between would not. It's like, a method to keep tabs on whose selling how many gtc's to whom for what isk. Sounds pretty logical to me, especially if they plan on taking it further at a later stage. Oh, but it's not exactly comforting to see that CCP somehow equate this with something that increases their ability to stop the sale of isk for rl cash. For some unfathomable reason there's still absolute craploads of farming going on, while there should be alot less market for all that isk. Who is buying all that isk that doesn't go through gtc's ? CCP said players will no longer be able to sell GTC for isk. So your theory doesn't fit.

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