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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
IlIlIlIlI IlIlIlIlI Hos B4 Bros	Posted - 2007.05.06 08:33:00 - [361] Originally by: Zanarkand Okkokk, go on, flame on... But please, go play CS if you want a risk-free-no-boring-stuff game. I always thougth that EVE is different... ? Or at least tries to be... This is what most people fall back on if they can't come up with an actually coherent argument towards GTC > ISK. Which is quite often beause there is no such thing, and anyone who thinks different probably can't follow an IQ test from one question to the next. From the example above, how do you, Joe Public know who's "playing CS" and who isn't. Hell some guy with an empire alt who basically prints ISK is just as untouchable as the guy who buys ISK with a GTC. You don't even have to neccessarily leave the STATION to make ISK, even in empire. Thats pretty untouchable. You don't EVER know the difference, because its not your character, unless said person deems to tell you. Hell even then you have absolutely no clue if they're telling you the truth. **, sitting in 0.0 isn't much different if you pay attention and aren't a complete moron. People do it in enemy territory all the time. The only real difference is person A can stand doing it, and person B chooses not to. The fact of the matter is your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on, so you and the rest of the 2 bit internet lawyers out there are grasping at straws for why "its bad." PS: The "grind" as its called ISN'T to make the game harder you gits, its to make CCP money. Guess what, GTC sales still make CCP the same amount of money. Ergo your argument is ***** worthless. PPS: To the mod who tore up my post. I never evaded the profanity filter, if your company really had a problem with it, they would delete the word entirely not star it out.
Trind2222 Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.06 09:03:00 - [362] This is a good and a bad change the good one is that ccp will be only one selling gtc. The bad once you won't be able no longer buy isk for real money in a legal way. Many will buy isk ilgal how are ccp gona stopp them? This queston to ccp how can you stopp people from seling time codes from ebay?
Zanarkand Gallente Outer Heaven DARPA	Posted - 2007.05.06 09:18:00 - [363] Edited by: Zanarkand on 06/05/2007 09:15:23 Originally by: IlIlIlIlI IlIlIlIlI Originally by: Zanarkand Okkokk, go on, flame on... But please, go play CS if you want a risk-free-no-boring-stuff game. I always thougth that EVE is different... ? Or at least tries to be... This is what most people fall back on if they can't come up with an actually coherent argument towards GTC > ISK. Which is quite often beause there is no such thing, and anyone who thinks different probably can't follow an IQ test from one question to the next. From the example above, how do you, Joe Public know who's "playing CS" and who isn't. Hell some guy with an empire alt who basically prints ISK is just as untouchable as the guy who buys ISK with a GTC. You don't even have to neccessarily leave the STATION to make ISK, even in empire. Thats pretty untouchable. You don't EVER know the difference, because its not your character, unless said person deems to tell you. Hell even then you have absolutely no clue if they're telling you the truth. **, sitting in 0.0 isn't much different if you pay attention and aren't a complete moron. People do it in enemy territory all the time. The only real difference is person A can stand doing it, and person B chooses not to. The fact of the matter is your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on, so you and the rest of the 2 bit internet lawyers out there are grasping at straws for why "its bad." PS: The "grind" as its called ISN'T to make the game harder you gits, its to make CCP money. Guess what, GTC sales still make CCP the same amount of money. Ergo your argument is ***** worthless. snip Please don't discuss moderator actions on the forum. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) If making ISK is so eaasy, why don't you do it? Oh right, making isk takes time... Should ingame reward be decided by ingame results or RL cash? This ruins the GAME. H.o.w.h.a.r.d.i.s.i.t.t.o.u.n.d.e.r.s.t.a.n.d.t.h.a.t?
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.05.06 10:00:00 - [364] Just logged and saw the motd for the first time. Im betting the op was written in conjunction or beforehand, to answer it. This ain't no different to GM arkanoids blog last year folks..... you know that one where he pillarized isk buyers......"who wants to play a game where people are buying themselfs ahead" ect ect..... Everybody knows. True intent of that blog, much like this one is mearly to ostrisize people like me for future wrangles on whatever they decide.... you've been thown a shred, you'll (well the defenders, apologists , and obviously the trolls) will keep grasp to this thread for dear life when they announce whats realy going to happen. Telling you, there playing you, the thread/motd.. it's all leading to something As for what people think.....Craam Hustler, thank him... not ccp or your heroic community manager... what have they done for you lately ______
Thews Mortaza Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.06 10:08:00 - [365] Originally by: Jayyne Cobb Quote: CCP will never get rid of every bug, so why bother fixing the current ones? Some bugs SHOULDNT be fixed, as that can cause countless others as well as security flaws or data loss. EVE isn't immune to this. This is the worst argument I've ever read on these boards. Words fail me. (Sig) Your momma so fat ... when I tried to scoop her to my cargo hold, she don't fit !
Heroldyn	Posted - 2007.05.06 10:21:00 - [366] still no answer as to why unemployed people should be allowed to have their real life conditions gain them an unfair advantage in the game. so i guess everyone agrees to a max allowed playtime of 2 hours/day ? or maybe better ccp charging per hour instead of per month/days. if theres anything ruining eve, then its unemployed and students.
Lilian Long	Posted - 2007.05.06 10:33:00 - [367] Originally by: Heroldyn still no answer as to why unemployed people should be allowed to have their real life conditions gain them an unfair advantage in the game. so i guess everyone agrees to a max allowed playtime of 2 hours/day ? or maybe better ccp charging per hour instead of per month/days. if theres anything ruining eve, then its unemployed and students. If they like, they can make an extra server for people like you, who can only play 2 hours a day or less.
Valan	Posted - 2007.05.06 10:38:00 - [368] CCP have been consistent on this. They said they don't like people buying their way ahead of others. The positive affects of GTCs out weighed the negative but they promised to try and balance it. They are now trying to make the system more secure and fairer. You knew it was coming same with nano ships, running missions in carriers and the soon to be nerfed passive tanked Drakes. So stop whining, if you're going to cheat by buying isk, buy it in the wrong way and risk a ban. I prefer it that way risk vs reward. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.06 10:54:00 - [369] Kieron, do you see what you have caused? Please next time either don't say anything, or say it all. Thank you. IMO Kieron's statement is too uncertain to make any conclusions and can be explained in many different ways. Therefore any speculations on this matter are just waste of time. _________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:02:00 - [370] Originally by: Robacz IMO Kieron's statement is too uncertain to make any conclusions and can be explained in many different ways. Therefore any speculations on this matter are just waste of time. Bingo. But realy, thats the point of it ______

ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:11:00 - [371] Im just rofling at people keep trying to post as if kieron said that the system will be implement so that third parties are still going to be selling time for isk just under ccp's internal system. Alot of people obviously in denile or hopeing desperately that there still gonna be making isk the easy way. Lets take apart that famous paragraph line by line Originally by: CCP kieron In the future, CCP will introduce a billing solution replacing the current system that allows the purchase of game time from third parties for in-game ISK. This is the line thats throw most people because the wordings slightly off this line is about the system that being replaced not what its been replaced with. if you change the part that says "current system" to "current system with one" changes the entire meaning of the sentence in the wrong direction but the sentence isn't as ambiguous. if you change "replacing the current system that" to "replacement for the current system which" the line clears itself up but the important part is to rember the part in bold THAT IS WHAT IS BEEN REPLACED by a system not yet specified in the paragraph by this line. Originally by: CCP kieron In essence, it will be possible for a time and ISK-rich, but financially challenged player to purchase game time directly from CCP. This line is fairly clear, those with isk who want to exchange time for isk will be able to, and this will be done directly with CCP no third parties. This prevents trading time for isk for players (confirmed in the next line) This I think clearly states that CCP isn't going to be implementing a system where someone buys time its allocated to their account they then can sell it via a ccp system to other players for isk. Theres no mention in the op of these mysterious third party systems that people have said ccp will invent. Most important things to note from this line are "directly from CCP" and purchasing time for isk. Originally by: CCP kieron Game Time codes will still be available for purchase, but the trade of game time codes for ISK will no longer be an approved payment option. This line is more about players worrying that they won't be able to buy GTC's with cash to use normally for their subscription, but also it confirms by saying GTC for ISK trade will be no longer approved, that they will no longer be allowing non official third parties to trade GTC's in anyform. Alot of crap as come up in this thread with people inventing concepts to cover there ass or to deny to themselves the fact something that has unfairly tipped the economy for over a year now is finally about to get binned. Frankly I say good riddance to the system. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Talkie Toaster Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:37:00 - [372] Ta toxic i think you cleared that up. it wasnt the best wording in the OP which has led to a shed load of speculation and panic. all selling GTC from player A to player B did was promote a "im rich irl and now i want to be rich in game" philosophy.
Denton Farrow UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:44:00 - [373] If they are buying for isk direct from CCP then in effect paying subscribers will subsidize people who only pay in isk. If this is the case then why not just remove the whole GTC system as why should paying subscribers subsidize people who play for free?
hybridundertaker Amarr coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:48:00 - [374] hm it is somehow a step in right direction, cos i dont think games should be like RL where the guy with $$ can pwn any little guy anytime. However i dont get it how CCP will get rl money from that system. Before smone had to pay so i could play with tc. Now noone will pay but ccp will end up with isk they created in first place. It is good for eve economy beyond any doubt but i fear they might fix the price very high to avoid loosing paying customers. EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2007.05.06 12:04:00 - [375] Really do get alot of opinions on this one. With those come some good and bad points. As for my thoughts on it.. People should always have the right to buy and sell GTCs for isk. Sure, to get the isk you should earn the isk. That has more than one side to it though. Many people in EVE spend 40+ hours a week making isk. That could even be considered "part time" compared to many EVE players. Then there are many people in EVE that spend 40+ hours away from EVE working to pay the bills. If someone such as myself, who works fifty hours a week, wants isk for nice ship, then should I not have the right to be able to make that isk? I do think that things should be earned. Often times that is not possible though. Someone who spends 10+ hours a day can work to earn a billion isk per week. Someone who works 10+ hours a day at thier job is never gonna have that chance. The question is, If the person that has to work most of the time sells a few GTCs, who actually works the hardest for thier isk. The OP mentions "time and ISK-rich, but financially challenged"... but what about time and ISK-poor, but financially secure"? The only real issue I see with someone selling GTCs would be the people that buy and sell them by the dozens. If that person is buying dozens, hundreds of dollars worth of GTC, to sell them for ISK, it's his choice. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Zechs Kushrenada	Posted - 2007.05.06 12:41:00 - [376] Arent' you guys (CCP) 'killing' yourselves this way. With the current situation you still get money for your game. But if you will implement this new feature you won't get any money for gametime anymore........
Zeonos Amarr Fairtrade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.06 13:09:00 - [377] Originally by: Athena Attom Edited by: Athena Attom on 04/05/2007 22:49:59 Originally by: Del Narveux Wait...so buying GTC from sellers, or selling themself, is bad, but getting them from CCP is okay? And is this going to affect those big third party resellers that currently do most of the sales? Im a bit confuzzled, though Ive never been a big fan of getting cash for game money or vice versa so it doesnt really affect me. Its because people are purchasing GTCS with RL money and selling them for ingame ISK effectively buying ISK from a website, except CCP get paid this way... its an unfair advantage that some people use to fund their entire accounts ship losses etc and also certain alliances :) well some people play isk and earn them ingame. some people dont have that time, because they have a real life work, and maybe education and home work, so they spend a little to get some isk "on GTC" so they also can have some fun.. Latest evemon
Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.05.06 13:49:00 - [378] Originally by: Zanarkand Edited by: Zanarkand on 06/05/2007 07:34:14 Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Some stuff... Noone is forcing you to play EVE. Don't like eve? Play another game. Play CS, there is no risk and no "doing boring stuff" in there. Perfect for you. Or... are you forced to play EVE? Again there are gazillion mmorpgs out there. Ah, the generic "I'm losing the argument so go play a different game" comeback. Seriously, get a new line, it's boring now... Originally by: Zanarkand EVE is a game, point of the game is more or less have fun... Part of EVE is making and using ISK wisely. Ever wondered why ccp didn't make Tranq market same as SiSi? Because EARNING & LOSING ISK is part of the game and makes it fun for many of us. You know, those funny things like "doing anything in EVE has a meaning or things like EVE is special." CCP makes the game, not you or your ideas about gaming. Me, you, everyone on these forums, we make EVE what it is. CCP provide the universe and we play in it. Without me or you, there would be no EVE. That's why they call it a MMOG. Originally by: Zanarkand Re-read the monopoly analogy, this is exactly how silly this RL cash -> ISK is. Originally by: Rachel Vend Originally by: Felysta Sandorn I work hard in real life and then put a little bit of that money in to EVE to get extra ISK. I work real hard, and when I play monopoly with my friends I buy extra monopoly board games and use that money to beat my friends in monopoly. Ingame advice? No, you don't need a full t2 absolution to enjoy this game. SERIOUSLY GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME. True, you don't need faction fitted faction BS to enjoy the game, or fully t2 Absolutions, and I don't always fly them! Sometimes I jump in my t1 cruisers and fly around for a bit of old school fun. The monopoly analogy is very flawed because of what someone said previously, that there is a winner and there is a finite amount of money. Put simply, I'm going to be in a t2 fitted Absolution whether I spend 10 hours ratting to afford one, or whether I bypass that and buy a single GTC (about 1 hour work in real life) so that I can play this game in the way I like. Similarly, I'll also be flying t1 Arbitrators whether I have to kill 2 rats for them or use 2mil out of a GTC to fly them. Just because you don't like PvPers doesn't mean they should all go play Counterstrike... Grow a pair and find a valid argument! Originally by: Zanarkand oh btw, you will be petitioned & banned. Account sharing is against EULA. Even more so if announce it on EVE-O forums... : Petition me if you want, I don't account share with my housemate. He's got 2 full time jobs and doesn't have the time to play EVE at the moment, not only that, but after he recently installed VISTA, he can't actually run EVE, so I logged on the other day to change his skill. I put a 24 day skill on so I don't have to do this for another month, but hopefully by that time, he'll be playing again and can do it himself. If you really want to petition me for that, go ahead, but it's just being overly petty and trying to get me banned because you're losing an argument on these forums that doesn't really account for anything anyway. Latest Video, Click Here!
nickky01 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.06 13:56:00 - [379] Originally by: nickky01 snip Let's keep references to RL drugs out of the forums, regardless of your stance on the issue, it's not germane to this topic. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) the man - 1 nickky01 - 0
Monty Burns Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.06 14:13:00 - [380] Guess the answer for us who have a life, job, friends, girlfriend is to buy a shed load of GTC's now and sell em quick. CCP. Another post in a storm of many that will probably get swamped but, remember many of us have been with you since launch and we want to play but there is no way we can afford to if you do this. Many of us don't take the p**s, we finance a few cruisers and clones (of which i need many! ). Darwin 4tw

Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.05.06 14:23:00 - [381] Originally by: Monty Burns Guess the answer for us who have a life, job, friends, girlfriend is to buy a shed load of GTC's now and sell em quick. CCP. Another post in a storm of many that will probably get swamped but, remember many of us have been with you since launch and we want to play but there is no way we can afford to if you do this. Many of us don't take the p**s, we finance a few cruisers and clones (of which i need many! ). Well said... Quoting you so CCP might read your post twice! Latest Video, Click Here!
Lady Abaris Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.05.06 14:44:00 - [382] I cannot see buying game time direct from CCP using isk causing them huge finacial hurt. There just isnt going to be a huge jump in numbers buying as those who choose to pay in this way already do so. CCP know exactly how many GTCs are used every month and will have done their sums. The are 2 groups who will suffer. Those who profit by reselling for rl cash and nobody who gives a damn about EVE will have any sympathy for them. The second group is those who fund their ingame activities using their rl wealth. Well this group is already able to get big advantages by the use off multiple accounts to raise isk so all is not lost for them. CCP do seem to be raising their game in terms of fighting the Isk selling menace and this change is hopefully just part of the attack on the sellers. I can see a trend towards an eve with proportionally less isk per head in it. An example being the new Level 5,6 and 7 missions will be item rewarded rather than isk. Removing the isk sellers from the game removes a massive amount. While CCP selling game time for isk also fits the pattern although i think the numbers involved are in reality somewhat smaller than we think. Lets be honest EVE would be a far more interesting place with out the isk sellers in any form and with less isk in the economy. The dedicated pvpers who currently use bought isk would either have to fly smaller ships, earn isk ingame like average players or shock horror cooperate with nonpvpers and gain an industrial base. Real player miners (bless em) would actually become vital again to the community and the economy. The result? Well we could expect to see fewer capital ships and battleships blobs out there. Smaller ships like cruisers and afs would again be more common again allowing the newer players more accessability. Oh yes and miners would get more friends.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.06 15:40:00 - [383] Originally by: Chribba This could potentially mean that those of us who buys GTC's off american sites (since it's cheaper vs the euro price) would get forced into buying european gtc's via cpp ending up paying a lot more again because of the european VAT system, that doesn't sounds too good in my ears. QFT! Us europeans gettings shifted again! Proud member of Cult of War and Amarr 4tw Finnish people seeking PvP, contact me ingame!
Skyly Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:29:00 - [384] You mean I might have to go into belts? To shoot rats? or... Rocks?!?! Please don't do it
Baliera	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:36:00 - [385] This idea sucks quote 'dis if you're down
Johanna Bogue	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:38:00 - [386] Originally by: Baliera This idea sucks quote 'dis if you're down
Trancestor Caldari Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:47:00 - [387] Edited by: Trancestor on 06/05/2007 16:44:10 i just have the question... what is the different between buying isk in ebay or selling gtc's for isk 1. u give rl money to get isk in ebay 2. or u give money for gtc's sell them to other player and get isk. result is the 1st is not allowed, the second is legal. there is no different for me, the result is always the same.. u get isk for rl money. i dont have only 1 account but i think its better to stop selling gtc's for isk.
Monty Burns Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.06 17:19:00 - [388] Originally by: Kuolematon Edited by: Kuolematon on 06/05/2007 15:54:45 Originally by: Chribba This could potentially mean that those of us who buys GTC's off american sites (since it's cheaper vs the euro price) would get forced into buying european gtc's via cpp ending up paying a lot more again because of the european VAT system, that doesn't sounds too good in my ears. QFT! Us europeans gettings shifted again! Is only REAL problem here that certain people has figured that buying GTC's for cheap ISK and then selling them for real money in eBay is back? Didn't your "secure" trade method helped that? I for one love ISK -> GTC ratio that currently have (320m for 90d) so I can put my accounts for good use (all 3 of them ) Just for your info, VAT does NOT explain the huge diference in prices. VAT is the excuse CCP have used in the past and simply holds no water at all - in fact as much as a bucket with a really big hole in the bottom. Darwin 4tw
Karitsa	Posted - 2007.05.06 17:28:00 - [389] After years of making isk lazy trading I noticed the fastest way to make isk and still handle the taxes right was to instead of changing 100 orders and find new ones for several hours a week to make few bill -> order GTC, pay the taxes and use the rl wealthy income to save time. This always felt a little bad but I arent teenager and like my family time more than mining rocks to be able to pvp. So this will force me back to manipulating markets, but somehow I feel its a healty change. I wont spend hours on mining, chaining, exploration, invention but put the real life skills to analyze market, use the file export and continue reimbursing mates when needed to. With the isk/ETC thing ccp created possiblity for working men to spend more time with family and still play even they way they wanted. But at same time it created enormous source of isk and made it possible for many of us to pvp in pimped ships 24/7. Eve is already family friend with the skillpoints system, and clever people with less time to carebear for isk, can still make fortunes with minimal time. For me it will be bit sad to see GTC trade go, which have made me billions with few extra hours from well paid programming job. But at least wealthy people are not able to fund titan after titan to make the game silly. So even I have to spend few more hours weekly on a game at least I get more rl isk for booze, *****es and gambling =) So as a working man 60hours+ a week in major consulting company, who had charished ETC trade legally - I agree this move might change game to better direction even it will cut some isk from ccp as I have spend more rl money to ETC than to the game game during the years ;) So do it and unleash the market beast.
Kairi Elan FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2007.05.06 17:29:00 - [390] Here's the thing, most of the people I know who buy GTCs with ISK under the current system, do it not so that they don't have to pay at all, but so that they don't have to pay $15 a month for each of their 3 alt accounts. People who want to see the game stay around will still pay money for at least one of their accounts. Also, with the removal of the resale market on GTCs CCP will be able to decide how many ISK they are willing to accept from a player in exchange for game time. CCP may think that 100mil ISK per month is too cheap. Heck, I do. People have been complaining that the inability to circumvent the EULA and buy ISK through GTCs will ruin their play experience because they will no longer be able to fly their fancy T2 ship and 'wtfbbqpwn teh noobzorz!!!111!!!1!' at their gate camp thus ruining their fun and enjoyment of the game. As we all know, people who work for their ISK in game LOVE having their hard earned assets blown up at a camp by people who 'insert cash here' whenever they need to replace a ship. CCP is trying to evolve the game universe at the moment, with a lot of changes that will dramatically affect the landscape. This is an attempt to partially reign in the economy, and re-balance the playing field before they go and add anything new. The cash for ISK economy ruins more than just the PvP side of the game, as many of the skills required for production and invention are currently grossly inflated in value by people with too much un-earned ISK on their hands. For people who need to be able to cheat to play, go back to single player console games, buy the strategy guide, enable godmode and leave the rest of us to play EVE in peace.



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