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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)

CCP kieron	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:42:00 - [1] The recent MotD mentioning the sale or purchase of ISK for real money generated some questions about how Game Time can be traded for ISK, Game Time that was purchased with real world cash. In some of my replies, I was unclear. This wasn't by intention, but because of the information I am authorized to release at this time. In the future, CCP will introduce a billing solution replacing the current system that allows the purchase of game time from third parties for in-game ISK. In essence, it will be possible for a time and ISK-rich, but financially challenged player to purchase game time directly from CCP. Game Time codes will still be available for purchase, but the trade of game time codes for ISK will no longer be an approved payment option. We still have a number of details to work out, as well as implementation and integration, but that will hopefully clear up some of the confusion created earlier. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

M Counts Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:45:00 - [2] would you mind explaining why, exactly, elimination of the "middleman" (and further complication of the already byzantine and horribly slow account management page) is, as you said it, "for the good of the community?" loaded question but I still get my point across, i still have not seen any concise logic as to why this is for the "good of the community," especially seeing as the last change to gtc mechanics caused only inconvenience, at least from my, a non-seller's perspective -----
Team Chk Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:46:00 - [3] So basically you can't sell GTC's for ISK anymore. Don't see how CCP is going to make money from this though?
The Slayette	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:47:00 - [4] Ok direct question, easy to answer. Will I be able to send $20 to someone take a code from someone and sell it to someone in game for isk? Will I be able to take my $20 and turn it into ISK through the magic of timecards. Yae or Nae. Your mic.
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:48:00 - [5] Originally by: M Counts would you mind explaining why, exactly, elimination of the "middleman" (and further complication of the already byzantine and horribly slow account management page) is, as you said it, "for the good of the community?" loaded question but I still get my point across, i still have not seen any concise logic as to why this is for the "good of the community," especially seeing as the last change to gtc mechanics caused only inconvenience, at least from my, a non-seller's perspective Because people can't buy ISK any more. Oh and this is win. There is no other way to describe it. Pure win.
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:51:00 - [6] Wait...so buying GTC from sellers, or selling themself, is bad, but getting them from CCP is okay? And is this going to affect those big third party resellers that currently do most of the sales? Im a bit confuzzled, though Ive never been a big fan of getting cash for game money or vice versa so it doesnt really affect me. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:53:00 - [7] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 04/05/2007 22:49:27 Originally by: Del Narveux Wait...so buying GTC from sellers, or selling themself, is bad, but getting them from CCP is okay? And is this going to affect those big third party resellers that currently do most of the sales? Im a bit confuzzled, though Ive never been a big fan of getting cash for game money or vice versa so it doesnt really affect me. As I read it (and correct me if I'm wrong) Kieron said nothing about turning gametime into ISK, or any other such isk-for-cash (or vice versa) style transaction being possible. I hope I'm right on that.
Athena Attom	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:53:00 - [8] Edited by: Athena Attom on 04/05/2007 22:49:59 Originally by: Del Narveux Wait...so buying GTC from sellers, or selling themself, is bad, but getting them from CCP is okay? And is this going to affect those big third party resellers that currently do most of the sales? Im a bit confuzzled, though Ive never been a big fan of getting cash for game money or vice versa so it doesnt really affect me. Its because people are purchasing GTCS with RL money and selling them for ingame ISK effectively buying ISK from a website, except CCP get paid this way... its an unfair advantage that some people use to fund their entire accounts ship losses etc and also certain alliances :) fix it dont nerf it.
Craam Hustler Gallente ReTech	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:55:00 - [9] Originally by: CCP kieron The recent MotD mentioning the sale or purchase of ISK for real money generated some questions about how Game Time can be traded for ISK, Game Time that was purchased with real world cash. In some of my replies, I was unclear. This wasn't by intention, but because of the information I am authorized to release at this time. In the future, CCP will introduce a billing solution replacing the current system that allows the purchase of game time from third parties for in-game ISK. In essence, it will be possible for a time and ISK-rich, but financially challenged player to purchase game time directly from CCP. Game Time codes will still be available for purchase, but the trade of game time codes for ISK will no longer be an approved payment option. We still have a number of details to work out, as well as implementation and integration, but that will hopefully clear up some of the confusion created earlier. I love you.
The Slayette	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:55:00 - [10] What you guys are suggesting is that CCP Are going to start selling timecards for ISK. This makes no business sense at ALL. How, in this happy little equation of yours, do CCP make money from our subscriptions? That is not what Kieron meant at all. I hope.

Briana Flametop	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:56:00 - [11] Repost from last thread: Somewhere, the Overlord of Macrominers is rubbing his hands together with glee. Why? Well... CCP charges $15 or (random made-up figure) 250mil ISK for a timecard? Fine. The ISK-farmers will charge $15 for 275mil isk. Players buy from them and then use the isk for buying a timecard as it is (effectively) cheaper than buying direct from CCP as they're paying the same amount of RL cash but get some extra isk on top. Everybody wins...except CCP and non-macrominers.
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:59:00 - [12] I know what people are doing, Im just trying to get a handle on the scope of this change. OP still seemed a bit vague as to whether the big reseller sites would get shut down, i.e. if their 'new and improved' system involves them or not. Which brings me to my followup question, if in fact the resellers are shut out of the picture will CCP be accepting more payment options? Specifically, Paypal and/or checks? I recently tried to get a friend in New Zealand signed up and came to the realization that a lot of folks in that part of the world dont have a credit card, at least not one endorsed by Visa/Amex/Mastercard. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Briana Flametop Repost from last thread: Somewhere, the Overlord of Macrominers is rubbing his hands together with glee. Why? Well... CCP charges $15 or (random made-up figure) 250mil ISK for a timecard? Fine. The ISK-farmers will charge $15 for 275mil isk. Players buy from them and then use the isk for buying a timecard as it is (effectively) cheaper than buying direct from CCP as they're paying the same amount of RL cash but get some extra isk on top. Everybody wins...except CCP and non-macrominers. Except GTC for ISK won't be supported, so if you get scammed CCP won't do anything. They'll possibly even ban offenders (buyer and seller) under the usual ebaying for ISK rules..?
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:00:00 - [14] Edited by: ToxicFire on 04/05/2007 22:59:08 Edited by: ToxicFire on 04/05/2007 22:58:47 Your accountants must be panicked? Kieron I find it very very hard to believe an option that is clearly very profitable would be undermined by ccp itself without some other way to recoup the potential losses that will occur. Thus leads me to suspect we're going to get an extra charge somewhere in the near future be it increased subscription costs, payments for major expansions. Its quite literally offering your subscriptions for an almost free amount.... unless you require insane amounts of isk compared to the accepted isk to gtc conversions currently. I just don't see how this can work, the only other example thats even close is GW offering free time but full game costs on regular expansions.... a system which i feel certain would not work with the level of eves expansions as they do not offer the level of content. Something like this is just gonna cause rampant inflation as people try and make as much isk as possible in the shortest ammount of time. In short big alliances will all be playing for free while the more casual gamer and small corps are worse off. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
RightYouAre Ken	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:00:00 - [15] Is English your 8th language or something, kieron, because seriously every post you make on this subject just confuses it more. Please tell us which of the following statements about the new system are false, if any: 1) Player A can buy timecards from CCP for Real Money. 2) Player B can buy timecards from Player A for ISK, (using CCP as a broker for the transaction). 3) All timecard affiliate programs will be shut down - the only valid timecard transactions will be handled directly through CCP. 4) This new system is intended to end timecard scams and put more money into CCP's wallet, (because they wouldn't be selling to affiliates at a discounted rate).
Countess Amarra	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Countess Amarra on 04/05/2007 22:58:50 Originally by: CCP kieron but that will hopefully clear up some of the confusion created earlier. You're a funny guy. Why even bring this up at all?
Briana Flametop	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Briana Flametop on 04/05/2007 22:57:55 Originally by: Nero Scuro Except GTC for ISK won't be supported, so if you get scammed CCP won't do anything. They'll possibly even ban offenders (buyer and seller) under the usual ebaying for ISK rules..? Pretty much every single other MMOG has banned 3rd party "game cash for RL cash" sales, regularly take action against farmers...and yet they still go on. CCP is basically handing a sizable chunk of what is now subscription money being paid to them over to the ISK-farmers. Not the greatest plan ever.
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:01:00 - [18] No gaming company will ever be able to completely get rid of people buying isk with real cash, but at least CCP will no longer make it easy and legal for them to do so. Not allowing people to buy isk with money in any fashion, and even though it will still happen, those people will have to risk getting into trouble. If I am understanding this correctly, I think this is definitely a step in the right direction. D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
M Counts Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:02:00 - [19] A large portion of the accounts in eve right now are paid for by isk-bought GTCs. To sell game time for isk - essentially free - would eliminate an equally large portion of CCP's income So, what we're looking at is a change to the account management page, something i am NOT optimistic about, seeing CCP's past track record with it, and a possible elimination of a large portion of CCP's revenue stream. I cannot see any way in which that would be "for the good of the community" -----
Easy Target Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Briana Flametop Repost from last thread: Somewhere, the Overlord of Macrominers is rubbing his hands together with glee. Why? Well... CCP charges $15 or (random made-up figure) 250mil ISK for a timecard? Fine. The ISK-farmers will charge $15 for 275mil isk. Players buy from them and then use the isk for buying a timecard as it is (effectively) cheaper than buying direct from CCP as they're paying the same amount of RL cash but get some extra isk on top. Everybody wins...except CCP and non-macrominers. Reading comprehension 4TW??? You can buy from CCP through the account page, or you can buy them for yourself from retailers as you can now. Re-selling the timecards is no longer an approved method... So as it reads the only way CCP lose is if you buy off them, as the isk goes to the big money graveyard in space and CCP dont get money from that. May have got that bit wrong. :) ----------------------------------------------- No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be --------------------

Baji Core Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:02:00 - [21] I do like this, but from a business perspective... huh? Is CCP really throwing away that money "for the good of the community?" I feel like something is being left out here.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:04:00 - [22] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 04/05/2007 23:04:39 Originally by: Athena Attom its an unfair advantage that some people use to fund their entire accounts ship losses etc and also certain alliances :) I doubt that CCP will sacrifice huge parts of their income to create a medicore ISK sink. No matter how you spin it, someone has to "pay" for every 30d a account gets. Be it a rich kid, a sponsor that feeds "ISK for gametime"-accounts commercials, be it CCP by losing out on the possiblity that someone would have paid. If you ban the "buying" of ISK by selling GTC, people still have the option of ebay (ebay = doing RMT via a myriad of websites, doesnt matter wether "Ebay" actually allows it or not, typical case of brand -> common term, see band-aid, kleenex). This may be against the EULA, but even if the EULA is a legally binding contract (which it is not in some places) - since when can a contract between a end customer and a corporation regulate who receives money from the end customer?
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:05:00 - [23] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 04/05/2007 23:01:20 Originally by: Nerogk Shorn No gaming company will ever be able to completely get rid of people buying isk with real cash, but at least CCP will no longer make it easy and legal for them to do so. Not allowing people to buy isk with money in any fashion, and even though it will still happen, those people will have to risk getting into trouble. If I am understanding this correctly, I think this is definitely a step in the right direction. Beat me to it. But for clarity; CCP will never get rid of macrominers. So I suppose they should stop banning them? CCP will never get rid of abusive or inappropriate behaviour from 12 year olds ingame, so they should stop caring too? CCP will never get rid of every bug, so why bother fixing the current ones?
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Provenance.	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:06:00 - [24] I think it's pretty safe to say that your clarification is not actually clearer.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Nero Scuro Edited by: Nero Scuro on 04/05/2007 23:01:20 Originally by: Nerogk Shorn No gaming company will ever be able to completely get rid of people buying isk with real cash, but at least CCP will no longer make it easy and legal for them to do so. Not allowing people to buy isk with money in any fashion, and even though it will still happen, those people will have to risk getting into trouble. If I am understanding this correctly, I think this is definitely a step in the right direction. Beat me to it. But for clarity; CCP will never get rid of macrominers. So I suppose they should stop banning them? CCP will never get rid of abusive or inappropriate behaviour from 12 year olds ingame, so they should stop caring too? CCP will never get rid of every bug, so why bother fixing the current ones? Awesome post, QFT Nero. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Team Chk Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:06:00 - [26] On a side note, will Character sales for ISK still be allowed? If so then you can expect a massive increase on teh sales forum
The Slayette	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Easy Target So as it reads the only way CCP lose is if you buy off them, as the isk goes to the big money graveyard in space and CCP dont get money from that. May have got that bit wrong. :) This is what worries me. If this is right CCP are going to lose a LOT of money. I PRAY this isnt what is happening.
Merrick Vale ACCORD Industries	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:07:00 - [28] Hmm. Stopping players from using their real world wealth to by in-game currency is a good thing. Ending third-party GTC for isk sales won't entirely accomplish that, but eliminating the sanctioned method improves your moral standing when going after those who use unsanctioned methods. Allowing players who generate a lot of income in-game to use it to pay for their accounts is, I think, generally good. If nothing else, it lets them fund alts to compete with those who can afford to pay cash. The major problems are that CCP loses part of it's revenue stream, which could obviously lead to in-game problems, and that you're changing a zero-sum transaction into an isk sink. Even a layman can see the deflationary pressure that could lead to. I hope CCP has a good economist on staff to monitor the effects of this sort of change and a willingness to tweak the rules as needed to maintain a stable money supply.
Jin Tan	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:08:00 - [29] So I give CCP a virtual currency that already belongs to them and I get game time back that is worth 15 real bucks?
Craam Hustler Gallente ReTech	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Baji Core I do like this, but from a business perspective... huh? Is CCP really throwing away that money "for the good of the community?" I feel like something is being left out here. The gametime will probably be fairly expensive, it will probably serve as an ISK sink as well, and deflation is probably important to CCP.



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