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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Omega Prototype
MASS A DEATH Mercenary Coalition
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:30:09 -
[2251] - Quote
Yeah great this is fantastic. I dont struggle enough with money with my carrier right CCP? What you are saying is we deserve to be poor all the time right? People barely use carriers as it is and then you nerf them AGAIN. What about the mach? Seriously I have seen some dumb updates but carrier ratting is not a ******* issue. You are already putting a lot of risk carrier ratting with a multi billion isk ship and most super deaths IS FROM RATTING SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS....HOW IS THIS ******* MAKING CONTENT BETTER IF YOU TAKE AWAY MORE CONTENT?! WHAT ARE THE BLACK OPS SUPPOSED TO HOPE FOR IF ALL THEY CAN HOPE FOR IS A RATTLESNAKE?! I shouldnt have to get mad but you should THINK before you do something stupid like this. Cant believe out of all the bad game design decisions it has to be CCP this time. LEAVE THE CAPITALS ALONE. FLY THEM FOR AWHILE AND MAKE MONEY IN THEM THEN DO SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN STFU. Its like if I walked into a hospital and despite having NO EXPERIENCE in any of the fields I tell them that there are some things wrong with surgery out of no where. Let me correct people saying there is too much isk flowing in the game......you are wrong. Theres a lot fo isk but it aint towards the normal players. its too the few wealthy money hugging people buying and selling **** and pumping out faction capitals for themselves like candy...HUH KIND OF LIKE REAL LIFE. So no there is not too much money and that notion is delusional. How about make ratting for the ratters MORE profitable and stop these super rich people from making so much money if you believe that ISK is the issue. Because let me tell you all this isk you say there is a lot fo just rolling around I havent got any of it so I have to ask wtf are you people taling about even? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3207
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:35:49 -
[2252] - Quote
Omega Prototype wrote:Yeah great this is fantastic. I dont struggle enough with money with my carrier right CCP? What you are saying is we deserve to be poor all the time right? People barely use carriers as it is and then you nerf them AGAIN. What about the mach? Seriously I have seen some dumb updates but carrier ratting is not a ******* issue. You are already putting a lot of risk carrier ratting with a multi billion isk ship and most super deaths IS FROM RATTING SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS....HOW IS THIS ******* MAKING CONTENT BETTER IF YOU TAKE AWAY MORE CONTENT?! WHAT ARE THE BLACK OPS SUPPOSED TO HOPE FOR IF ALL THEY CAN HOPE FOR IS A RATTLESNAKE?! I shouldnt have to get mad but you should THINK before you do something stupid like this. Cant believe out of all the bad game design decisions it has to be CCP this time. LEAVE THE CAPITALS ALONE. FLY THEM FOR AWHILE AND MAKE MONEY IN THEM THEN DO SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN STFU. Its like if I walked into a hospital and despite having NO EXPERIENCE in any of the fields I tell them that there are some things wrong with surgery out of no where.
TBH, if Carrier-ratting didn't have amazingly out-sized rewards, I doubt you would be this emotional about the prospect of it being nerfed.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Omega Prototype
MASS A DEATH Mercenary Coalition
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:41:17 -
[2253] - Quote
No I would be upset because I want to use them in combat too and I love the complexity behind them but these nerfs dont mean anything. They will just make it so everyone just uses dreads and titans. They already cost a lot and now they wont be used at all...like what are we supposed to load them with SS fighters and tackle and thats it? Am I not allowed to risk a high value asset without getting slapped every time I look at my carrier? Plus all the prices on things have gone UP since last I saw so where is this money they claim we have aside from the few rich? |
Atrinos
Ordo Teeutonicus Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:41:44 -
[2254] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Atrinos wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Lord Heluene wrote:So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT
The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line. 2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem. 3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely? Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again.
1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem.
2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing.
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Omega Prototype
MASS A DEATH Mercenary Coalition
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:44:13 -
[2255] - Quote
Atrinos wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Atrinos wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Lord Heluene wrote:So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT
The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line. 2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem. 3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely? Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again. 1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem. 2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing. EXACTLY. ALREADY RISKING A HIGH VALUE SLOW SHIP. AND AGAIN WHAT DO BLACK OPS HAVE TO LOOK FORWARD TOO WITH NO CARRIERS RATTING? |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6668
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:45:01 -
[2256] - Quote
Lord Heluene wrote:So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT
Nobody pushed you into anything, you looked at the game and made a choice.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6668
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:46:29 -
[2257] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Keep in mind, that all miners and even gate camped who have shot a single rat are counted to the 100 % :)
Yes! This is such an amazingly bad point it should be noted in a quote for posterity.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3208
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:49:55 -
[2258] - Quote
Atrinos wrote:
1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem.
Oh wow, you don't understand how percentages work at all, huh?
Quote:2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing.
And as I asked: What is your ******* point? Do you think assigning blame to skill injectors alleviates the need to correct the problem now?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6668
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:54:10 -
[2259] - Quote
Atrinos wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Lord Heluene wrote:So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT
The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp...
1. Because ruining the economy will ruin the game for everyone. 2. Because the problem is not ratters in general, but a subset of ratters. Those guys are the one's bringing in a crap ton of ISK into the game. I have posted this before, but I doubt you'll read and educate yourself so I'll do it for you. Last month, May 2017 just to be clear here, the amount of ISK coming into the game for that SINGLE FECKING MONTH was as much as was created in the last 6 months of 2016. 3. Three points: a. Carriers and supers were changed by CCP. b. If a teeny tiny number of people rat in an OP ISK printer it won't have the same impact as 10 or 100 times as many. c. The ships are still unbalanced with or without injectors. Whether you have the problem now or year from now or 2 years from now, they were doomed to somehow be nerfed.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Objectless Hatred
El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:56:14 -
[2260] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players.
Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. |
|
iFars
Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 19:57:37 -
[2261] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%)
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage)
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%)
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%)
ty |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6669
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:01:01 -
[2262] - Quote
Atrinos wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Atrinos wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Lord Heluene wrote:So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT
The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line. 2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem. 3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely? Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again. 1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem. 2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing.
OMG no.
1. First, CCP said that a single group of ratters were causing the problem, carriers and super pilots. Second, it is a flat tax so it is a solution that penalizes the small time ratter just as much as the big time ratter who is causing the problem. Hence the tax will have to high enough to wipe out the negative effects of a money supply growing too fast. So it might have to be as high as say 50%. A VNI getting ticks of 10 million while the super pilot is still getting 50% is not going to be seen as fair to a much, much larger segment of the ratting players....WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH. Second what do you think everyone with an alt or main ratting in a VNI will start skilling for? A super. You are not solving the problem long term.
2. The is not injectors, the issue are two classes of unbalanced ships when it comes ratting.
Stop trying to shift the discussion away from the problem--too much ISK entering the economy.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6669
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:05:02 -
[2263] - Quote
Objectless Hatred wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less.
Yes because SP always determines who wins.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Objectless Hatred
El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:14:19 -
[2264] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. Yes because SP always determines who wins.
No but the player base was pissed over a monocle but doesn't care about skill injection. So yeah... |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6669
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:18:06 -
[2265] - Quote
Objectless Hatred wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. Yes because SP always determines who wins. No but the player base was pissed over a monocle but doesn't care about skill injection. So yeah...
So it wasn't pay to win, and were people pissed about the monocle or the possibility of things like gold ammo? I think people thought the monocle was stupidly over-priced, but it was that article about how to really grab money out of players by creating better ammo, mods, etc. de novo for cash.
And ironically, people are now using skill injectors to deflect from a clearly unbalanced element in the game. And that imbalance was created not by pay2win, but by CCP doing a revamp to carriers and supers.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3212
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:18:15 -
[2266] - Quote
Objectless Hatred wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. Yes because SP always determines who wins. No but the player base was pissed over a monocle but doesn't care about skill injection. So yeah...
The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time.
There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles".
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Objectless Hatred
El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:29:29 -
[2267] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time.
There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles".
And isn't the current whining over more than carrier/super nerfs because of ratting? the nerfs, the rorq nerf, the ghost training crap, the mysterious stopping of all skill queues, the lag, socket closes, etc etc? I only mentioned monocles because people that were playing at the time would more readily remember that and then the rest of the issues would come to mind as well.
I still have a copy of the Greed is Good pdf :P |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6670
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:33:34 -
[2268] - Quote
Objectless Hatred wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time.
There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles".
And isn't the current whining over more than carrier/super nerfs because of ratting? the nerfs, the rorq nerf, the ghost training crap, the mysterious stopping of all skill queues, the lag, socket closes, etc etc? I only mentioned monocles because people that were playing at the time would more readily remember that and then the rest of the issues would come to mind as well. I still have a copy of the Greed is Good pdf :P
Yes. However, both SurrenderMonkey and I have come out against this general nerf to carriers/supers. Nerfing a ship overall that can be used in both PvP and PvE because of a PvE problem is not good either. I don't know about SurrenderMonkey, but I'd prefer a temprorary ban on carriers and supers ratting so that a better solution can be found.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6670
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:37:31 -
[2269] - Quote
Here we go a simple and elegant solution:
CCP imposes a ratting tax on supers and carriers of....100%.
You can rat in your carrier or your super, you just get nothing for it.
No other nerfs. All combat abilities are returned to where they were.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Objectless Hatred
El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:38:10 -
[2270] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Objectless Hatred wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time.
There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles".
And isn't the current whining over more than carrier/super nerfs because of ratting? the nerfs, the rorq nerf, the ghost training crap, the mysterious stopping of all skill queues, the lag, socket closes, etc etc? I only mentioned monocles because people that were playing at the time would more readily remember that and then the rest of the issues would come to mind as well. I still have a copy of the Greed is Good pdf :P Yes. However, both SurrenderMonkey and I have come out against this general nerf to carriers/supers. Nerfing a ship overall that can be used in both PvP and PvE because of a PvE problem is not good either. I don't know about SurrenderMonkey, but I'd prefer a temprorary ban on carriers and supers ratting so that a better solution can be found.
I only had a issue with the originally high percentage of the nerf. I feel the same about nerfing a pvp ship because of its use as a pve ship. I'm pretty much on the same page. |
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Trevize Demerzel
106
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 22:12:39 -
[2271] - Quote
IMO. If they would change it so fighters did less dps to rats and increased their resistance to being rendered useless in pvp I'd be fine with that. It's the nerfing pve plus adding npc agro and leaving then useless in pvp that annoys me so much.
A (super)carrier shouldn't fear a bunch of frigs or even a solo small ship that can render it a large loot Pinata in pvp. It's fighters need some teeth in pvp. The ability to defang a carrier at present is rather ridiculous and I think that is why this entire nerf angered so many. Myself included.
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Feracitus
Rafix Enterprises CAStabouts
2
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Posted - 2017.06.15 00:14:38 -
[2272] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Feracitus wrote: The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply. ISK is already a synthetic commodity currency like bit coin. People convert electricity into bit coin, and people convert (leisure) time into ISK. With changes to carriers/supers it looks like it is "too easy" to convert (leisure) time into ISK.
It might be synthetic, but it lacks the paramount trait of bitcoin as a store of value, for having a fixed cap. People often mistake worth for price. Having a fixed cap on the money supply is a good concept to explore as it drives stability of the overall market system, and curbs overinflation over time. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
218
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Posted - 2017.06.15 01:49:52 -
[2273] - Quote
Trevize Demerzel wrote:IMO. If they would change it so fighters did less dps to rats and increased their resistance to being rendered useless in pvp I'd be fine with that. It's the nerfing pve plus adding npc agro and leaving then useless in pvp that annoys me so much.
A (super)carrier shouldn't fear a bunch of frigs or even a solo small ship that can render it a large loot Pinata in pvp. It's fighters need some teeth in pvp. The ability to defang a carrier at present is rather ridiculous and I think that is why this entire nerf angered so many. Myself included.
This right here. It feels like with the Citadel update carriers and supers got transformed from blob ships to ratting ships that happen to still be decent in a blob. Ever since then, it has been nerf after nerf, with each one targeted at their ratting ability but hitting their already weak out-of-blob PvP abilities even harder. I didn't train carriers and supers to make ISK or sit in TiDi all day pressing a button every few minutes; I trained them as a tool against groups of smaller ships in PvP to get something of a "quality over quantity" advantage. Unfortunately after 4 nerfs to carriers and only a slight tracking change to dreads and titans, it's clear I made the wrong choice. Dreads and titans are for every fight against players and carriers are for PvE or when you outclass the enemy so much that it's a contest to who can lock them fast enough to get on the kills. |
ApolloF117 HUN
Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels
55
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Posted - 2017.06.15 10:17:41 -
[2274] - Quote
I will repeat myself again if you nerf dps give something back, tracking or hp |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
368
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Posted - 2017.06.15 10:39:19 -
[2275] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Here we go a simple and elegant solution:
CCP imposes a ratting tax on supers and carriers of....100%.
You can rat in your carrier or your super, you just get nothing for it.
No other nerfs. All combat abilities are returned to where they were.
Holy ****, I know you are in AMOK but what the hell dude? Carrier/super ratting is the only engaging PvE activity that EVE has ever had. It can't be multiboxed and demands active play style.
Yes it is giving a bit too much isk at the moment and should be scaled to ticks of about 80 mil or so (roughly 4 afktars) but removing it completely is just absurd.
As to PvP the biggest issue right now is that they stop working in TiDi which means you need to recall and relaunch between every attack volley. This nerf is not going to do much to PvP anyway as DPS was **** to begin with. |
venetistrader norie
H S attack
1
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Posted - 2017.06.15 13:17:44 -
[2276] - Quote
Ok guys. I did look at all the charts all the commentsGǪ and I donGÇÖt understand one thing. IGÇÖm now in 0.0 for 1-2 mounts now. I did train to a carrierGǪ. I do havens. GǪ OK. The part I donGÇÖt get is where do the guys get the anomalies??? When IGÇÖm ratting in my carrier I can make good ticks just if IGÇÖm alone ratting the havens. If there is 3 or 4 players making the havens we wait a lot till one site is free. So, to get such ticks, as the chart tells us, you must be alone in a system and have all the sites to yourself. Where was this chart of super making so much ISK done??? Does a super-rich player have its own system with sites all to himself?? This chart is 100% made in such way that it supports the facts that CCP is trying to make us see.
So CCP please make a chart of the system where IGÇÖm ratting and show it to me. I did ask my corp m8 and no one did never see such tickGÇÖs ass you say we can do. I would propose a different approach from you side. Just tell us you are nerfing it and that this is just the start because you want the players to buy plex and not make it in-game. In the end, you want us to buy plex thatGÇÖs the only logical answer to the nerfs.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3415
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Posted - 2017.06.15 14:09:58 -
[2277] - Quote
venetistrader norie wrote: I would propose a different approach from you side. Just tell us you are nerfing it and that this is just the start because you want the players to buy plex and not make it in-game. In the end, you want us to buy plex thatGÇÖs the only logical answer to the nerfs.
Another one who don't understand how PLEX work... |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen
218
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Posted - 2017.06.15 14:11:05 -
[2278] - Quote
First of all there's a sov upgrade, which your system should have, that spawns several more Havens than normal and makes them respawn very quickly. That alone can easily support a super and 2-3 carriers doing sites, as long as you don't have other people in subcaps occupying anomalies for half an hour. Second, I'm not sure if it's the case for normal carriers, but supers make more money in Forsaken Hubs and Sanctums than Havens, so that takes a little of the pressure off. |
Commander Spurty
1685
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Posted - 2017.06.15 14:21:12 -
[2279] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Commander Spurty wrote:Why haven't you used your data to decide:
"We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors"
Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. That path leadeth to thine themepark Mechanically you have two options. An arbitrary total ratting limit. Which means everyone who isn't a super gets nerfed too. Or an arbitrary per pilot limit. Which forces multi-characters on the same account (to keep costs down) to bypass it, & makes no sense in a sandbox. Neither are viable solutions.
I would love to have watched you jumping to these conclusions. Mad as a box of frogs matey.
There are good ships,
And wood ships,
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Spurty
1685
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Posted - 2017.06.15 14:21:12 -
[2280] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Commander Spurty wrote:Why haven't you used your data to decide:
"We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors"
Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. That path leadeth to thine themepark Mechanically you have two options. An arbitrary total ratting limit. Which means everyone who isn't a super gets nerfed too. Or an arbitrary per pilot limit. Which forces multi-characters on the same account (to keep costs down) to bypass it, & makes no sense in a sandbox. Neither are viable solutions.
I would love to have watched you jumping to these conclusions. Mad as a box of frogs matey.
There are good ships,
And wood ships,
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are Spaceships
Built by CCP
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