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Sticky:[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 758	Posted - 2017.06.09 09:58:00 - [1] - Quote Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Game Designer \| Team Phenomenon \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin


CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 758	Posted - 2017.06.09 09:58:07 - [2] - Quote Reserved Game Designer \| Team Phenomenon \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 123	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:05:02 - [3] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. FGS I just bought i Super grrrr
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75455	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:06:05 - [4] - Quote I have a funny little feeling that this will upset a lot of people Death rides a fast C4mel
Intigo V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 118	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:08:23 - [5] - Quote Haha, this should be great. Good changes! hydra provail
Anna Wong Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:08:46 - [6] - Quote What about citadels? The damage output especially from the medium citadels is low enough without a further reduction
Suitonia The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED 878	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:10:18 - [7] - Quote Great changes Contributer to Eve is Easy: https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Julia Zamorska The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:10:20 - [8] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: keep it healthy for all our players. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD How about removing carriers and supercarriers. Its not like they are useful after recent fighter nerf.
Lightbringer Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:10:59 - [9] - Quote April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 3050	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:13:21 - [10] - Quote Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

0pec Mission Teamsters Union 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:15:10 - [11] - Quote ya let's nerf everything that'll fix our game
Whut The Hel Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:15:23 - [12] - Quote "....there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties." >nerfs the ship itself :thinkgun: :thinking:
Mister Toucher SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST The-Culture 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:18:06 - [13] - Quote At this point you might as well just remove supers from the game. Please gimp them more.
Tim Nering Mouth Trumpet Cavalry. Mouth Trumpet Cavalry 179	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:18:21 - [14] - Quote Stop Caring Start Fragging! Join R3D Fire Today!
Lucy Callagan Furnace Thermodynamics 267	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:20:00 - [15] - Quote This is a very good change. Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails.
Lillith Obyzouth Kenshin. DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:22:31 - [16] - Quote nice going bud .. nerf the dam ship I just paid for / trained into
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 6003	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:23:30 - [17] - Quote Justified changes but they miss the key point. All PVE rewards were balanced against player and ship power in the ~2010 era. Player ships have been 'rebalanced' multiple times since then. Almost all of these changes have been significant power increases. Level 5 missions and 10/10 sites used to be nontrivial fleet sites, now they are readily soloed. The key to addressing this balance issue is to increase the combat capabilities of NPCs in line with the increases player ship power has experienced. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Dafarr Maul Kenshin. DARKNESS. 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:23:59 - [18] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting. Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people. lol, atlest if you bitching here, you aint bitching in game
svobouch bouchovci ScumLord Excavation and Evisceration ChaosTheory. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:24:18 - [19] - Quote Seriously... Go f* yourself. Why are u runing to ruin this game. U are not doing changes u only nerfing.
iFars monkey attack squad Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:24:22 - [20] - Quote You change capital ships every year, we do not have time to throw out the SP

Lightbringer Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:24:54 - [21] - Quote Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell?
Kestrel Clairvoyant Mine 'N' Refine Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:25:49 - [22] - Quote These calls for massive uprising of players. Whats next? guns are too OP lets fight with sticks in space...#fuCCP
Prometheus Hinken Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:26:12 - [23] - Quote Lillith Obyzouth wrote: nice going bud .. nerf the dam ship I just paid for / trained into Extract, retrain in to a Naglfar, and rat in that! Ontopic: yay!
Hetwiyha Quam Singulari Triumvirate. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:26:22 - [24] - Quote Oh...wait.... Carriers and Supers with drones are to easy for Krabbing, lets change to fighters and let them multitask, that will fix income... No "big" wars, all are krabbing, more isk is generated, lets change damage for Carriers/Supers.... All are krabbing then more, because still no big wars and less income then before, CCP, whats next? Perhaps its just because nothing big is going on and all have time for do this instead of having fights over SOV because of Foz.... :P
Elena Cassidy Fink Operations Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:21 - [25] - Quote hey lets nerf everything that makes money end game thanks ccp think i might be leaving game permintly this time now theres gonna be no way to afford anything cant do rorq mining it got nerf bat from hell cant do Carrier or Super Ratting its getting nerfed to hell now why is end game Stuff getting nerfed. You are making it impossible to to pay for this game within the game because you are trying to be money hungry with this stupid * plex meta bull**. wake up CCP your killing your own game
Logan Jakal Blue Sun. DARKNESS. 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:22 - [26] - Quote So since you decided to go fully ******** on every income source, what's left for making ISKs ? Oh, high-sec Incursions, forgot about these.
Two in TheGoo Smokey Mirrors 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:26 - [27] - Quote Nerf a PvP ship because you're fundamentally unable to design good PvE content gz again on another successful patch
Inquisitor Lucious Amok. Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:26 - [28] - Quote Hahaha CCP you may as well just title all your dev post 'heres how we are going to screw with goons now -' and THEN the changes you are implementing
Mashie Saldana Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 1639	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:32 - [29] - Quote inb4 WTS Hel. Also CCP if you want me to unsub all my acc incl. 250mill sp just tell me now. Lets go back to farming in ishtar guys ! yay ! How to win EVE
ISD Bubblemoon ISD Community Communications Liaisons 80	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:28:00 - [30] - Quote Hello! Guys, please don't forget about the forum rules . Thank you ISD Bubblemoon Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Portia Venice KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:28:18 - [31] - Quote CCP, I can't for the life of me figure out why this is a good change. The last 2 years in a row ISK making opportunities have been major nerfed. In order to plex my account i have to spend more time playing this game. I understand you have to make money but so do i to keep playing. If it becomes an issue where i cannot keep playing due to ISK method Nerf (continuous) than i will no longer be able to play eve. This isn't a grr you post or a angry post, its a real problem i foresee for many players my self alike. Super ratting was the only reason for me to move out to NULL to be with Goonswarm. You nerf all of Null (ore atoms, Ratting) but you do not touch High security space Incursions? .... Yes i post terribly I'm sorry.
Ralph Shepard The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:28:38 - [32] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions. Which means this is just an excuse from you.
Hikkata Sequent Industry Red Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:29:34 - [33] - Quote Intigo wrote: Haha, this should be great. Good changes! Wut? But why? One tengu can jam two carriers. Why are you doing this?
Tobias Frank 43	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:30:16 - [34] - Quote Hey, what about making reasonable changes from the start and not nerf it into the ground AFTER the players invested huge amounts time and ressources in things like supercarriers or rorquals. We are not in World of Warcraft where we can simply reroll to another class in a few days or so. In EVE, it is really frustrating.
Anthar Thebess 1697	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:30:30 - [35] - Quote Wait what? Srlsly no. Who had this idea? STOP MAKING CAPITALS AND SUPERS ****** IN PVP. If you wan to slow down PVE income - reduce bounty, or increase the rat EHP. Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Vitak Zerath Finnish Space Jaegers Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:30:37 - [36] - Quote Im pretty sure that if the MERs continue like this, there will be timers on ratting anoms too. Im not complaining though. I agree that having such massive isk faucets is bad.
Tiesto DJ Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:31:20 - [37] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting. Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people. Read as, **** off VNI/Ishtars. I want Sacs to myself and dont touch obvious op fighters.
Lura Zara Worlds Without Boundaries Special Forces 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:34:51 - [38] - Quote Heres a grand Idea, Nerf incursions. The amount of ISK made through that alone is ridiculously farmed. However now your talking about nerfing capital ships again. Which I hardly see as a good thing when a capital is far more likely to die in actual combat than an incursion bear. Then again theres always the VNI Navys out there with multiple accounts soloing all the high end anoms with no self risk as they watch a movie. But yes its the capital ships/fighters. not the NPC bountys or income or site difficulty that was based off of a meta the better part of a decade ago. CCP please rethink this.
NoobMan Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 332	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:35:28 - [39] - Quote All these null nerfs... W-Space looking more attractive Epic Nice! Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
Abagah Khan Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:35:36 - [40] - Quote So rather than address the obvious issues of incursions, you yet again massively weaken capitals in pvp. People who train and invest ~30bn in a ship should be able to make more isk than someone ratting afk in a vni. If you really want to reduce isk availability, hammer on incursions and reduce overall bounty availability. Rather than yet again going full hammer on anyone who trained into a capital

Odinessa Jones' Barbecue and Foot Massage 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:35:45 - [41] - Quote At the rate you are going, you will end up running off most of your player base with these nerfs to fun content. Your real nerf is to nerf the numbers of players, until there are none left.
DutchGunner Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 200	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:36:17 - [42] - Quote I can see that some changes were needed considering the high ticks one can make when running anomolies in carriers and the even higher ones with super carriers. However I think that this reduction in damage is too strong. Why not start with 10% for the light attack fighters and 15% for the heavy attack ones. If that is still not enough, you can always do another. I can see that some balance is needed in the bigger ships for both mining, pve and pvp but this is taking it a bit too far in one go.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1290	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:36:38 - [43] - Quote still would like fighters to be less ezmode anti-everything
Requiescat Adversity. Pandemic Legion 212	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:36:58 - [44] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. a 5 or 10% change might have been reasonable but a change as dramatic as 30%, over a year after implementation tells me that either you and the rest of your dev team haven't been paying attention, or you're completely incompetent. which would you rather it be? hi i'm requiescat, and i'm your best friendGÖÑ
Portia Venice KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:37:12 - [45] - Quote Time to Login high-sec incursion smartbombing alts to wage war against the high-sec ISK making bears.
Lord Kaho Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:37:46 - [46] - Quote :D They cant fix the server for bigger cap fights... So nerf Supers... And there will not be capital fights anymore. Good job. How many money got the brain of this idea? :D I hope much! Now CCP dont need to work on the serves :P
Laborus Necrae The Cobrastan Cabal Sect 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:37:54 - [47] - Quote Greed is Good!
She11by Big Boys Don't Cry Kids With Guns Alliance 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:38:09 - [48] - Quote Carriers and motherships are sh*t in pvp already, why are u doing it... any ab ship can tank even mothership 24\7
commander aze 429	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:38:28 - [49] - Quote Ok fine. I get it. Not thrilled cause that was my gravy train. But neef all the things... Just one question. Why in the heck would you further screw cardier ratring but yet again upping the chance of fighter dieing. Its already a stupid number of fighters dead please just not that. Everything else is fine but for the love of god dont keep screwing with that percent chance of switching. You habe to reward the carduer and super carrier ratrers for fielding the isk in some way. Commander Aze For CSM XII https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=506400 Support the Community #Broadcast4Reps
Kaoraku Shayiskhun The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:38:45 - [50] - Quote This whole thing is had to call bullshit. Yeah, capital ships are gives you easy ISK, but why you had to wait with that? PL, NC. and goon now ratted enough? They mining and ratting with these ships 23/7. This do bad for the market, not those, who use it ratting 1-2 hours. Or did you ever tried to farm your monthly plex? And after that you should buy some ships etc to actually really play the game not just farm yourself over the days. Those, who farmed the ** out with this will keep their money I guess, so this change will ** up only smaller players. This will not resolve the problem with powerblocks, either the problem with market, since bigguy will be able to make more and more money, couse they already have enough money. They will farm like hell on, they wll mining on too. You have to learn shitload to be able to fly those ships, and you have to spend shitton of money. And now it will be pointless, couse with this money you can bring 4 other ships, and it will be able to fight, their weapons will not jammed by a 3 day old char. I have to say this is the first time I started to think I will stop that game, couse after so many years you started to do these, but it is late, and all these changes will give better chances for those, who already have.

Zduhac Aldent S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:40:01 - [51] - Quote Lol that moment when you were laughing at roqu changes and now karma and ccp hits you. But no really i support this, it is very very unfair for me who have trained for a whole ***** YEAR and few months earning money to buy super to have larger income then l4 mission runner. oh Eve what have you become, less you invest yourself in Eve the better it is for you Also not to even talk about ** carriers are in pvp at the moment and now you are killing it even more, why dont you just delete supercarrers and carries out of the game, oh wait you actually did that now, from now on we will only be seeing them on pictures and reading tales of carriers and how at some point ppl were actually building them and using them
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:40:11 - [52] - Quote CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map. All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want. Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden.
Lquid Drisseg KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:42:25 - [53] - Quote This is only going to very slightly curb the money supply, people ratting in carriers will be hit the hardest and they will just jump into supers which will still clear sites like nobodys business. Can you please just address the root cause and publicly say that isk generation in EVE is flat out broken and need to be rethought from the ground up?
claus Hanson Facetious Indifference DARKNESS. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:43:47 - [54] - Quote So u basicly implement the rorq's being able to mine a super in no time (yes rorq's are silly overpowered, also pvp wise) and now close to every 1 flies a carrier/super because of the Rorq's And then u surprised people are making more Money. CCP logic i guess
Firnen Bakru Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:00 - [55] - Quote please nerf incursions aswell then
Portia Venice KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:07 - [56] - Quote Sassura wrote: CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map. All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want. Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden. Except for the fact we don't put thousands of M/3 of ore on the market, you can blame the Russians for that.
Meridon Arthas Pain and pleasur Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:12 - [57] - Quote How I see the patches PvE/Mining ships from a fews months. NERF 1.1 NERF 1.2 NERF 1.3 NERF 1.4.... CCP, U better have a look on ghost training than nerf ships wich need Isk investment like carrier and off course Rorqual and SP as well. What's the problem ? People are too rich ? Better change the PvE than nerf everytime a ship or module.
Kestrel Clairvoyant Mine 'N' Refine Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:22 - [58] - Quote Sassura wrote: CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map. All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want. Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden. Buhuu, so its our fault we play EVE and actually make ISK in it? Like Delve is biggest problem in game..jesus...get some common sense... all you haters can go f yourself back to whatever HS dump you crawled from...
Lucy Callagan Furnace Thermodynamics 268	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:28 - [59] - Quote To all the people complaining that : "I can't plex my account anymore, ccp is so greedy they want me to pay it with RL money" Don't you understant that all the plexes that are in the game have been bought on CCP's website and therefore paying the sub in plex or RL money makes no difference to ccp ?
Irenia Tsurpalen Special Assault Unit IT'S ONLY PIXELS 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:55 - [60] - Quote In terms of PvP, all you do is kicking smaller groups in the nuts. Fighters are already pretty easy to counter. In terms of PvE, of course there is a big amount of ISK being generated. People have nothing else to do. The Citadel age combined with an total unfun sov mechanic (something something easy to adjust if needed, do you remember?) killed it. Sure I had fun conquering my new home in Fountain but despite the enemy not fighting it took me weeks to fully secure everything thanks to the grinding. However the "war" for our new home was over within a week. This was just for one constellation. And you wonder why people do nothing but PvE'ing and waiting for the next big bang? Which you posponed to winter or even further, just remember how often you posponed the current sov mechanic and that is something I foresee for the "gold rush" update too.

She11by Big Boys Don't Cry Kids With Guns Alliance 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:45:09 - [61] - Quote Summary: buy plexes by money not isks patch.
Epsilon Dog Omega Armament 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:45:36 - [62] - Quote Don't touch PVP abilities of capitals !
Pier Rin State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:46:51 - [63] - Quote Maybe if you would not have introduced skill injectors there would not have been a problem???? Less carrier/super pilot, less rorqs, no need for nerfs???? And with every nerf/fix, 2 more problems pop up, please dont fix whats not broken.
Zduhac Aldent S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:46:55 - [64] - Quote Lucy Callagan wrote: This is a very good change. Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails. It is funny for you now, but what if you invested so much time and effort into something that will become meaningless now, how would you feel?
Pepizaur Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:46:57 - [65] - Quote This seems ham fisted but at least there are eyes on the problem. My question is why the anoms themselves aren't being looked at. It is very clear that when they were designed and the iterations to them since they were never meant to interact with the new fighter mechanics. I'm hoping this has lit a fire under your ass to revamp nullsec anomalies as a whole. If and when (plz tell me this is being worked on) this unintended interaction is fixed do you plan on reverting some of these ham fisted nerfs? The DPS nerf to SR FiBos seems strange and oh let's not forget you're announcing these changes 4 days ahead of time. 4 days? Why shoot yourself in the PR foot like this?
Nex Gaius Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:47:13 - [66] - Quote Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Have you maybe taught of just nerfing the Rat Bounty instead of changing something that effect pvp as-well. Also nice nerf pass on the fighters and you still haven't fixed the Shadows. (Because 3.3bil isk DD totally worth it right guys?) Gotta love CCP Dev team who changes the dumbest things. Lets add Fatigue so we can't have events like Asakai and B-R something which increased the player base so much. Maybe if you made it so the content was easier to make the sink wouldn't get clogged with the crap content generation hairball you left in it... :thinking: You are devs for a job and you basically drive players away with your changes... good way to keep a job right???
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2883	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:47:51 - [67] - Quote Don't forget to remove some EHP and/or self-rep capability from NPC dreads while you're doing this change. Right now, a carrier's only barely able to overcome the local repair of NPC dreads. Removing this much damage from light fighters is going to make a carrier unable to kill them. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Huydo Liga Freier Terraner Northern Coalition. 81	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:47:56 - [68] - Quote What about ECM vs Carrier? Its still Possible to Perma Jam all the fighters with only one cheap t1 ecm frig. Its just ... not balanced.
Jonas Skypilot Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:48:00 - [69] - Quote Well, isn`t 30% Basic Attack Dmg for Heavy Fighter too much? I can understand that Supers/Carrier are stong in PVE, but could`t we just reduce it like for 5/10 % for heafy fighter dmg and the light fighter dmg for 5% and balance/nerf Incursions more?
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:49:54 - [70] - Quote Kestrel Clairvoyant wrote: Sassura wrote: CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map. All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want. Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden. Buhuu, so its our fault we play EVE and actually make ISK in it? Like Delve is biggest problem in game..jesus...get some common sense... all you haters can go f yourself back to whatever HS dump you crawled from... Mm Mine n Refine. That explains the dumb. Kick Mine N Refine ;) I'm not laying any blame. I was simply offering CCP a clear suggestion on how to fix their perceived problems which would avoid nerfs that impact everyone but are aimed at a region that should not be named.

Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 3052	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:50:00 - [71] - Quote Tiesto DJ wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting. Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people. Read as, **** off VNI/Ishtars. I want Sacs to myself and dont touch obvious op fighters. Got a problem with this, scared forum alt? If there are many carriers and supers ratting (even battleships and marauders) in a system and the VNIshtars take 3x to 10x as long to finish an anomaly, they just keep everyone from making money. They can, for all I care, put 2 VNIshtars in the same anomaly, for instance. This makes them finish these anoms faster and help everyone. But they cannot AFK rat any more with this, obviously. My entire problem is this AFK attitude as well as that they are so incredibly slow. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lucy Callagan Furnace Thermodynamics 269	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:50:20 - [72] - Quote Zduhac Aldent wrote: Lucy Callagan wrote: This is a very good change. Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails. It is funny for you now, but what if you invested so much time and effort into something that will become meaningless now, how would you feel? I would get over it because when I was a kid, my mother taught me how to cope with frustration.
Peter Moonlight Suddenly Carebears 196	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:51:03 - [73] - Quote I don't make ISK with a carrier/super and I have never done it before, but I do have a super which I use for PVP on daily basis. This seems like a change that WILL nerf PVE, but also small gang super pvp, and it won't matter for big groups using supers at all. Nerfing/boosting ships, shouldn't be one sided, when you nerf one you need to think of a bigger picture how that will affect things.. People were ratting in Ishtars/VNI/carriers, rorquals came, people trained into rorquals, they are getting nerfed to being useless while decently fitted they are more than half price of a super. 1. Capital / big scale PVP is quite stagnant, specially capital pvp, majority of nullsec regions is safe for PVEing and some of the regions are almost perfectly safe PVE havens. 2. Moving supers in low/null is 100% safe with citadels, along with that removing a citadel is major pain in the ass 3. Lowsec groups are having their passive moongoo isk removed, and I'm pretty sure it will negatively affect groups that PVP a lot and use those moons for SRP. 4. Lowsec doesn't have really any ISK making oportunities or nothing that could even compare to nullsec, where nullsec is being much more inaccessible therefore making it really safe PVE havens There's a lot more things to say but most of people know them. But, making people train rorquals then nerfing them, people using carriers and supers, then nerfing those too, completely changing/nerfing the only income of lowsec groups, nerfing and completely killing all life in high class wormhole space and many other things is really bad. Eventually everyone is forced to go and live in nullsec when you count all the changes CCP has made, and nullsec is not that great either, people just farm, there's nothing to fight over, regions are safe for pve, inaccessible, spammed with 100s/1000s of citadels/structures and some would say that the SOV conquering mechanics are bad. Our corporation does med-gang pvp in lowsec and we also use supers/capitals as a force multiplier, therefore this will affect us. First reaction from a corp mate to this thread: http://i.imgur.com/yP0HR0S.png
Skruff McGruff Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:54:22 - [74] - Quote wow. just wow. as someone who recently got into capitals and has extracted skills to fly different things this is seriously disheartening. I don't fly alts I'm not wrecking the economy with 4 rorqs and 4 hulk pilots mining colossal on repeat. I don't have all the time in the world to dedicate to isk making I have a very busy work schedule. and now you've nerfed both ships I just got into to help support my one toon and be able to afford things with my limited play time. on top of that, how can you not see that its not null carriers that are destroying the economy? its the damn plex. that **** is outrageous right now. look at the price of injectors and extractors. if anything I would be thinking our null carriers are ratting to pay for pvp ships which in turn will be lost at some point and that isk never really does that much to the economy. to make rats target the fighters more so it costs carrier pilots more money to play the way they should be able to play. if they are so OP as you like to say, why do I constantly read about carriers getting blown up, capped out, etc etc. To me it looks like you folks are scrambling to try and stop the economic climb of isk but really haven't figured out the main reason so youre just gonna nerf all the money making options one by one. What about exploration? I had a friend that made 550mil in a couple hours doing that just yesterday. That's way more than a ratting carrier will make in that amount of time, at least a T1 Carrier pilot. The way you go about this is pretty frustrating as well. I literally changed my toon out yesterday for this, and then today, 4 days before you enact these amazing changes, you pretty much dissolve the return on my investment. The train for these ships is long, arduous, and the rewards should match this. 30% to heavy fighters? Look how expensive the Hel is!! Sure people can make them with their own materials but then do something about that. Increase the change for fighters to get popped? Great so now 1/3 of our nerfed income can go to replacing our fighters, which are also expensive? Stop hurting the honest players who are just trying to have some fun and live their life. the rorq is one thing, that's totally passive, but still there is an element of risk to it. carriers are super active, you cannot passively make isk with them. you cannot drop drones, orbit at 100, and collect. I think a greater look needs to be given to the actual problem here instead of trial and error nerfing. To quote the great Bill S Preston Esq and Ted Theodore Logan, "This is most non-triumphant."
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:55:04 - [75] - Quote OK CCP, let me get this straight ... VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b) Seems balanced to me. Do you guys even play this game ? =/ You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/ Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?
tbms Arbiters of the Void Circle-Of-Two 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:55:47 - [76] - Quote time too stop playing !
Kaoraku Shayiskhun The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:56:16 - [77] - Quote Lucy Callagan wrote: To all the people complaining that : "I can't plex my account anymore, ccp is so greedy they want me to pay it with RL money" Don't you understant that all the plexes that are in the game have been bought on CCP's website and therefore paying the sub in plex or RL money makes no difference to ccp ? It will, couse if people not buy it for ISK, nobody will have to buy it from CCP. And since PLEX is more expensive then subscribe (maybe now i ****** it and it will be adjusted) CCP have more income from the PLEX market. So yeah. If people cannot plex their account, they will leave, and CCP will feel it. There have to be a pretty fair balance
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 684	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:56:26 - [78] - Quote Nobody likes to see his toy nerfed, but as it seems this was really an issue. So thanks for tackling it, even if it's surely a unpopular move. Wouldn't a combination of applicaton nerf and a change in the NPC spawns in these sites (some more smaller ships the carrier has longer to chew on) have been better then this damage reduction? It put's the carrier in a difficult position PvP wise.
Meridon Arthas Pain and pleasur Circle-Of-Two 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:57:40 - [79] - Quote Krypleria wrote: OK CCP, let me get this straight ... VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b) Seems balanced to me. Do you guys even play this game ? =/ You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/ Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ? 40M VNI ? Damn, Can u contract me some plz ? Full VNI fitted is 100M. and I did 18-20M tick
Abagah Khan Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:59:08 - [80] - Quote Krypleria wrote: OK CCP, let me get this straight ... VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b) Seems balanced to me. Do you guys even play this game ? =/ You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/ Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ? what kind of poor is using a carrier that is only 2.5bn fit....

Moonlight Mernher Machiavellian Empire Fidelas Constans 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:59:15 - [81] - Quote How about simply making anomalies' respawn timers longer? That would make en masse carrier/super ratting actually harder in terms of single system usage whilst not touching in large their pvp capabilities.
FlexiusVII OEG Freedom Among the Stars 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 10:59:56 - [82] - Quote Ew. Double carrier ratting just died for me. Gonna unpack my Ishtars and rat with 4-ish alts. Less effort, more money. Adapt or die. Practice makes perfect.
Abagah Khan Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:00:20 - [83] - Quote Rovinia wrote: Nobody likes to see his toy nerfed, but as it seems this was really an issue. So thanks for tackling it, even if it's surely a unpopular move. Wouldn't a combination of applicaton nerf and a change in the NPC spawns in these sites (some more smaller ships the carrier has longer to chew on) have been better then this damage reduction? It put's the carrier in a difficult position PvP wise. but this wasnt an issue.. Risk vs reward and how long it takes to train. its just another nerf trying to limit goons that will hit everyone
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:01:56 - [84] - Quote Meridon Arthas wrote: Krypleria wrote: OK CCP, let me get this straight ... VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b) Seems balanced to me. Do you guys even play this game ? =/ You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/ Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ? 40M VNI ? Damn, Can u contract me some plz ? Full VNI fitted is 100M. and I did 18-20M tick I stand corrected, but I guess you got my point right ?
Lucian James THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two 169	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:02:08 - [85] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: ...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotion investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I cam getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately.
C02 Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:02:21 - [86] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. How is this supposed to fix the problem? As long as players are incentivized to do nothing but amass large amounts of supers in one area, nothing is going to stop. Its unfortunate that CCP seems to have handed the keys of the kingdom to a certain region....(delve) and let them run rampant and somehow DIDNT foresee this becoming an issue. Instead of just making things useless or near to for players who dont have a 300 man super fleet ready to drop at a moments notice, maybe find a way to decentralize the wealth or make the risk equal to the payout. I'm not overly concerned with rat aggro as im not a moron who rats in a super (afk vni is the real problem, how CCP doesnt know this is ????) This seriously reduces the effectiveness of solo or small gang drops. This is a core game mechanics issue, not somehow a dps issue. How is it not just easier to make capital ratting a no go? Just make rats not spawn if a capital is present. As I am sure everyone cares, I am just sad to see CCP just nerfing solo or small groups due to Delve obliterating the economy rather than finding a way to correct the issue. People in eve have shown time and time again, you cut income by half, they just bring in two more toons (**TINFOIL* THIS IS A MONEY GRAB #2017CONFIRMED) But none the less, the issue at its core remains. WHY DO YOU HATE CAPITAL CONTENT CCP? lol In all seriousness though, CCP Larrikin, please stop killing capital pvp, carriers in particular. The joke that is burst projectors, fighters which are jammable by a soft breeze, as well as their increased sig now to make sure not a shot is wasted on them. Not to mention the confusing mind game that is the long range FIBO bombs...... I understand that carriers should not be a soloPVPBBQmobile, but I'm under the impression most of the community felt they were in a good place pvp wise. (even though apparently 2 carriers cant alpha a Bhaalgorn now before it makes it back to gate) TL;DR The point of this whole uneducated rant is to say that older players need an endgame. Not everyone loves to do nothing but fly faction/t1 frigs all day. You have taken my money gladly for 10 years. Please let me live my dream of having fun in the big ships I worked so hard for (and not be rendered useless by 1 sabre and or griffin.) and started playing Eve because of! And that nerfing the entire game wont stop delve from just doubling down to maintain. **MOAR TINFOIL- Is the point to make buying PLEX the only viable income source?
The Judge Balkan Mafia Circle-Of-Two 85	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:02:32 - [87] - Quote Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. CSM XII Member and CSM XI Permanent Attendee Diplomat for Circle-Of-Two @_TheJudge on Twitter [email protected]
Grella Khurelem KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:03:43 - [88] - Quote Ah, I was training for a super. Good thing you turned off my training queue!
Decres Estidal Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:07:00 - [89] - Quote Now that you have killed the damage can you make them have to be locked individually so they don't disappear a soon as fleets see them in PVP. That or make them take up less room or give carriers and supers bigger fighter bays this is just stupid now.
Jenny Starwolf ARZENAL The Serenity Initiative 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:07:12 - [90] - Quote So.. People makes Billions of ISK from un-subbed SP farms due to bug. CCP don't care about that. People have to invest several billion ISK in a ratting carrier to get less than double that of some pleb in a 300m Gila, then actively participate in content via killing stuff and risking getting caught, but let's nerf them even harder after we just nerfed them. Then supers come in, costing 8-9x that of the carrier making barely double the isk they do, let's nerf them to. Carriers are almost completely useless in any kind of capital fleet fight as it is, you've basically insured they will never be used for anything now, as the asset risk of fielding them is much higher than the strategic value of having one on grid. If players making too much ISK from ratting is the problem, nerf the income from ratting, reduce rat bounties by 20%. That way the (already ****** up) ratting dynamics of higher ISK risk equals higher ISK reward remains the same, but the overall ratting income is still lowered.

C02 Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:07:43 - [91] - Quote Abagah Khan wrote: Rovinia wrote: Nobody likes to see his toy nerfed, but as it seems this was really an issue. So thanks for tackling it, even if it's surely a unpopular move. Wouldn't a combination of applicaton nerf and a change in the NPC spawns in these sites (some more smaller ships the carrier has longer to chew on) have been better then this damage reduction? It put's the carrier in a difficult position PvP wise. but this wasnt an issue.. Risk vs reward and how long it takes to train. its just another nerf trying to limit goons that will hit everyone skill injectors are a thing now. it takes 300$ and 3 minutes to be a super pilot.....
Korus90 With Fire and Iron I REALLY LIKE TRAINS 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:08:01 - [92] - Quote A good start, but the game will still be effectively dead in 3 or so years without significant changes to citadels and fozzie sov. They don't work together. Why would anyone attack Delve? Aside from the sheer number of goons, good luck taking out 7 keepstars. Why would anyone attack the north? 4 keepstars in AUTZ. Not to mention all the Astrahus's and Fortizars there. Oh and I went into Delve the other day, 71 Rorquals in one mining anom. 71. A single rorqual (maybe even two!) should be allowed to mine at full capacity and then after that there should be a penalty to rorqual mining when rorqs are on grid. Just like the diminishing return of multiple modules. Sorry, rant over.
iFars monkey attack squad Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:08:12 - [93] - Quote After the general change of the capital ships, you have already changed the fighters. Do not touch anything else please. You spoil everything too often.
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:08:59 - [94] - Quote The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. In my opinion, you dont know what your talking about. What are you doing in CSM ?
Tobias Frank 45	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:09:12 - [95] - Quote The Judge wrote: Keep up the great work. Great work would have been doing it right from the start, what we see now with Rorqual/Carrier nerfs AFTER MONTHS is almost the worst i have seen in MMO game development.
Skruff McGruff Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:10:16 - [96] - Quote seriously though? you think carriers are the main "problem child"? How is that possible?? I can get 25m ticks in a rattlesnake, I can get 20 in a VNI/Ishtar doing NOTHING. and they are nothing to train for. Youre talking years of training for people and now youre reducing their payouts? All this is going to do is increase the VNI/Ishtar route. In certain areas of space I have lived we have a couple carriers ratting and a BAZILLION VNIs, even the Ishtar isn't that viable anymore over the VNI after that nerf. Oh, and 1/2 the VNIs are multi-boxed toons. This seems designed to hurt the solo characters so we are forced to spend more money to have more alts to support the lifestyle we have worked so hard for to play. I would rather pay an extra few dollars on my subscription than have this nonsense. But you'll probably end up doing both and more.
Inquisitor Lucious Amok. Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:11:29 - [97] - Quote Seriously guys whatever you do, DO NOT skill extract your carrier/fighter skills to train up for dreads and HAWs
Atlan Dallocort Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots 84	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:11:55 - [98] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE [...] We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. You know you could balance PvE by changing the rats or bounties? I don't get "a bit too effective" and "30% reduction" in one sentence. Since when do you balance pvp ships with a focus on their pve options?
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2898	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:12:26 - [99] - Quote A year ago, we got the long awaited Capital ship changes which finally revitalized the class as a whole. It was obvious that Capital ships were going to be very powerful, both in PVP and PVE. You gave us powerful end game ships to work towards - something worth commitment to Eve. Roughly six months later you did the same thing with the Rorqual. Now, a year after these changes, when most players have finally begun to benefit from them, you reduce the ships back to roughly where they were before. Maybe that's a good thing in the long run, maybe it's not. Maybe it pisses off so many people who feel that you pulled another bait and switch with training. Maybe it makes Battleships great again. But this is a major change that affects way more than running anomalies. Obviously, this will have profound impacts across Eve, but it won't fix the underlying PVE problem, which is that resources never deplete, no matter how relentlessly you farm. I could run a thousand anomalies and the Blood Raiders would never bat an eye. They never send different ships, they never escalate, they never stop flying right into my guns. If I run Incursions, the Sanshas would basically do the same thing, but at least they move on to a different part of Eve every few days. Maybe you need to fundamentally rethink resource generation in Eve? Get rid of the unlimited local ratting opportunities. Maybe people who log in to find that there are no rats to kill will simply log out again. Or maybe they will do something else and make Eve more interesting. If you pursue this, however, it has to be across the board. Everything has to be finite or people will just shift to continuous PVE in another part of space. Across the board, ISK-generating PVE should be more like wormhole space or Incursions. PVE content eventually depletes. Out of things to do locally? Leave home and go kill some dudes or crab it up some place new. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Santinav Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:12:26 - [100] - Quote Total disagree with that CCP. Ive played (trained) since years to sit in an Super, and now ther Damage output is like an Carrier before.... ding SHAME!!! ding *ding SHAME!!!

Tiesto DJ Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:12:51 - [101] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Tiesto DJ wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting. Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people. Read as, **** off VNI/Ishtars. I want Sacs to myself and dont touch obvious op fighters. Got a problem with this, scared forum alt? If there are many carriers and supers ratting (even battleships and marauders) in a system and the VNIshtars take 3x to 10x as long to finish an anomaly, they just keep everyone from making money. They can, for all I care, put 2 VNIshtars in the same anomaly, for instance. This makes them finish these anoms faster and help everyone. But they cannot AFK rat any more with this, obviously. My entire problem is this AFK attitude as well as that they are so incredibly slow. Doesnt exactly matter with what account this is posted its still making a point. Stop being afraid of a forum avatar. Yeah, this still sounds like "AFK tars screwing with my optimal ratting". Dont like it? Move systems, still dont like it or not allowed in DARKNESS. tough cookies? It is what it is? Why should people leveraging a game mechanic suffer because Rivr wants faster anom times for his leveraged game mechanic?
Temnoyar Russian ICE Bears Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:14:24 - [102] - Quote I hope this was a consequence of the use of drugs and alcohol... Pls stop it.
Skruff McGruff Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:15:09 - [103] - Quote notice how flaky the wording of the explaination is - "we think" "a bit too effective". you are making drastic changes, at least stand behind your convictions with some form of sincerity and permanence. ie: "we have found carrier pve to be too powerful and it is hurting the economy, this is why..."
Lucian James THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two 171	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:15:27 - [104] - Quote The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. This is NOT an example of 'great work'. You and CCP are not being creative enough. Carriers are already garbage capitals only useful in blobs of 50+... and you want to reduce damage. You could affect how NPC payouts go per the ship that killed them without having to nerf how carriers are in PVP combat. Or reduce the amount of NPC bounties per ship class based on how much PVP happens in or around a region. Granted, you still have to be careful how you do this because all your nerfs lately have been taking isk out of our hands to put RL money into yours. Enough with being pigs. #CCPigs
Suitonia The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED 881	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:16:06 - [105] - Quote Lightbringer wrote: April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke. I do wonder if CCP even play their own game. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now., so now they do no damage before instantly dieing because of the previous nerf? :D RIP. How do they go from overpowered to no damage if they lose 20% DPS. Seems reasonable to me. Contributer to Eve is Easy: https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Echo Wolfman DeadMan's Squad Test Alliance Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:16:09 - [106] - Quote Nerf miners, nerf ratters...Is it your goal to nerf all isk making to under 80m isk/hr? If you want people to only buy plex then just say that. The clickfest you made it WAS the income nerf. Maybe you should concentrate more on botters if you're worried about too much isk in the game. PvEvCCP
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2901	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:16:34 - [107] - Quote Pier Rin wrote: Maybe if you would not have introduced skill injectors there would not have been a problem???? This is true. Everyone being able to train into Capital ships in a few months based on being able to crab it up and buy SP has contributed to this problem. It undermines the "Capital ships are a powerful end game goal" when a six month old character can skill into a good Carrier pilot. Of course, many players told CCP that skill injectors were a bad idea and they went for the money train anyway. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Skorpion Medion Fink Operations Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:17:07 - [108] - Quote i feel a disturbance in the force, as a thousand carebears cried out . Keep up the good job CCP, Force PvP
Malthuras Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 60	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:17:54 - [109] - Quote Yea lets make changes to supers and capitals that screw them in pvp situations because they generate TOO MUCH ISK rather than address other sources such as incursions, reduce bounties, increase rat HP, or anything like that. Nah, lets just make all that crap worse in the game overall, including pvp because we **** ourselves at the last MER. You really need to change whoever is doing this balancing crap and try again with new devs.
Youshi Yohimoto The Inebriated Bivalves Jamyl Syndicate 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:18:16 - [110] - Quote CCP you are literally punch of retards for doing this. GG on killing your own game. Stop whining about losses on player numbers after you behave like full on fuckin retards. You punish people for spending years to get into caps or even in carrier and then when they finally have the shiny toy you come and say NO, you can't have fun and we wanna tell you that you just spent tremendous amount of time for fuckin bullshit. Eat ** CCP. Been playing since 2006 and you just keep getting more ****** with changes and nerfs every year.

Drak'Eisgvarde Crepari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:19:19 - [111] - Quote Ridiculous. 100T change over the past year or so which is the norm for the past several years. How about fixing the isk sinks instead? Things like market taxes took a hit with citadels. Up the items bought from NPCs with isk, particularly cosmetic ones. New skins, a mix of LP and isk (or just isk). New clothes with isk. Maybe change up t2 citadel rigs and give them less T2 salvage but some NPC sold items. Have it cost isk to unlock additional jump clones, not just take a skill. 1000 isk for the first. 10b isk for the 10th. Have additional bonus remaps that can be bought for isk. Maybe allow different clones with different remaps, for a substantial isk price. Increase the array of hardwirings, particularly for slots 6-10. so many ways to drain isk.
btOw Ragnarson Lisnave Mordus Angels 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:20:21 - [112] - Quote Nice ccp you just keep people got mad and stop play nice job ccp, you just nerf all game, rorquals , t3 and now carriers and supers, maybe is time to sotp play this game of nerfs
elise densi Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 66	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:21:13 - [113] - Quote Haw dread ratting here i come next month dread nerf i gues?
Fibro Optic Engineering Evolutions Limited Badfellas Inc. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:21:13 - [114] - Quote WTF !!! Carriers too strong in PVP ? To start off with With this new fighter system, 1 stupid T1 ecm frigate with no bonus mods can de-Fang a carrier by jamming out the fighters. If the fighter system was more like the old system, then id slightly agree, however I don't think they are overpowered in PVP at all
Prometheus Hinken Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 29	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:23:31 - [115] - Quote Ralph Shepard wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions. Which means this is just an excuse from you. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9a_sinksfaucets.png Bounties pay out nearly 7x more than Incursions do. Not to mention there's often a waitlist and you're dependent on other people's skills to run the sites faster. With nullsec ratting, especially in your (and mine) alliance there's a sea of blues, various intel channels, and third party apps like NEAR2 to keep you incredibly safe while you undock in a carrier or supercarrier and rat on your own time for hours and hours on end, with the ability to start and stop whenever you'd like.
Thea Yulivee The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:23:40 - [116] - Quote The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. Serious question because it seems really unintuitive to me - you have on the one hand, carriers and supers - ratting activities, that can be multiboxed very well because they require a high amount of involvement, as such leading to limited time that people will do this kind of ratting at a time, as it is tiring if you try to really up your income. On the other hand, there are VNIs and Ishtars, which are really easy to scale, easy to afk farm, easy to multibox which have virtually not limit apart from the time a player is willing to spend warping to the next site in time. Are you not just going for the higher per account numbers and completely disregarding the reality of income per player in this case? Because when it comes to the generation of ISK and ISK influx, going for the biggest per account values, really seems like an awfull choiceGÇªespecially looking at what kind of ratting you see out in null most of the times. Feels like this change is way of the mark.
Meridon Arthas Pain and pleasur Circle-Of-Two 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:23:44 - [117] - Quote Krypleria wrote: Meridon Arthas wrote: Krypleria wrote: OK CCP, let me get this straight ... VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b) Seems balanced to me. Do you guys even play this game ? =/ You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/ Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ? 40M VNI ? Damn, Can u contract me some plz ? Full VNI fitted is 100M. and I did 18-20M tick I stand corrected, but I guess you got my point right ? Yeah completly :) The conclusion for all of us is the same, CCP solution is not right.
IIDjangoII The Alpha and the Omega Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:25:34 - [118] - Quote I'm not exactly sure what you mean by isk faucet. Perhaps you mean that capsuleers getting isk for actively playing the game is not convoluted enough for us. It might be a better idea to first address the isk plugholes which seem totally out of your control. The isk received by supers ratting ends up in the pockets of all capsuleers from top to bottom. By reducing isk input from the top end you are making everyone in eve poorer, while the cost of playing the game continues to rise. This is not good for any capsuleer, only good for ccp. So please do not sugar coat it for us as though this change is for our benefit, it clearly is not. In the long run it probably will not benefit you either considering the general tone of my peers, I doubt they will be pulling out their wallets to fund their game time as a substitute to grinding isk for plex, nor will they be spending more time playing the game to grind that isk.
Woodbine We Are Down Syndrome Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:25:52 - [119] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Heres a suggestion from someone that has played since 2003.... STOP mucking about with mechanics that aren't broken and fix stuff that is.... Why are you utterly making Rorquals pointless and now nerving Supers to the point you may as well just use a carrier... Do you actually play the game.... Muppets
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 447	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:26:28 - [120] - Quote If the issue is that rewards are too easy, then nerfing something used in both PvP and PvE does not make a lot of sense. People will simply change to another ship that will give the damage output they desire for running sites. Perhaps the problem is the availability of sites and the need to improve NPC responses to attack types. Maybe what you really need to do, instead of hurting a tool used for both PvP and PvE, is reduce the number of sites that spawn. If you reduce the number of sites which spawn, even with max IHUB upgrades, you will help Sov Null Sec by creating more of a demand to expand territory which will create more PvP. By reducing Fighter damage, you reduce the PvP capabilities of not just carriers and super carriers, but also of Citadels (and fighter support from citadels is laughably weak from my experience). By reducing the effectiveness of a tool used in more than just PvE, you miss fixing the target... which is to reduce an isk faucet. So instead of reducing the effectiveness of fighters, why not reduce reduce the number of sites instead? Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space. Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Rarilmar Legends Unbound Greater D.U.S.K. Coalition 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:27:18 - [121] - Quote OMG you idiots!!! stop mentioning the Ishtar! they will nerf it too... (again actually lol)
elise densi Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 67	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:27:41 - [122] - Quote CCP wants only to make mony from ppl paying subs it seems ive played many games b4 where the devs turned into a wallet making buisness instead of a game EVE is going the same way now ....
nikander100 Blackburn Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:28:18 - [123] - Quote Lucian James wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: ...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs I myself just trained to get into a carrier so I don't have to rat 40+ hours a month just to play and that is most of my free time, yes I rat to play, why you may ask? I don't have the money nor the ability(for now) to make it in real life, I was getting into a carrier to lower the time and actually play the game do pvp and have fun with my friends. I think ccp should either make the rats smarter or change bounty payout per ship (If ship = carrier/super do= bounty payout -10%). #CCPigs #CCPlease
El'geherg Insurrection Mercenary Coalition 43	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:29:37 - [124] - Quote Selling my ratting carrier about a week ago is looking pretty smart right now :smug: On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the entire null PVE process got way out of hand so CCP is responding with ham-fisted responses like nerfing fighter damage and introducing a swing for the fences event like the Blood Raiders shipyard that only a tiny number of players interact with. I wonder how many of the non-Sanctum/Haven/Forsaken Hub anoms respawn day after month after year in high volume null ratting systems and never get used? I wonder how hard it would be to reduce the NPC bounties or increase their EHP if the problem is "ticks too high"? CCP created the situation where caps/supers are nearly ubiquitous compared to even a few years ago and now their only response is a pretty substantial nerf with almost no notice. CCP better hope the new moon mining scheme is a conflict generator because otherwise it is going to be increasingly less attractive for players to log in to null and low sec. Outside of a few heavily trafficked areas it is incredible how many systems in low and null-sec are essentially empty all day and that is going to increase with this change. You might think "Good, serves the filthy carebears right!" but the fewer people logging in, the less opportunities there are for meaningful content. The disconnect with why most players log in and what CCP seems to think players want grows more pronounced every day.
Morrigan Laima Shooting Blues Everyday Gimme Da Loot 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:30:43 - [125] - Quote I don't see how carriers/supers are that much of a problem - you can't scale with them anymore. How does this even begin to compare with the pre-citadel levels of broken, where you had players AFK ratting with a dozen or more carriers across different anomalies? The blocs are doing exactly what powerblocs do when they aren't fighting - they are building up a warchest as fast as humanly possible. And they'll keep doing exactly that, by whatever means they work out to be the best balance of time, effort, and ISK reward. This isn't changing, because there's no reason to fight. What I don't understand though, is why this nerf isn't aimed at something scalable? Even with my PLEX costs, I could still outpace a supercarrier ratting with smartbombing battleships in a single anom or with AFKtars. in multiple anoms. Why hurt the solo player? And, why are other faucets, which offer higher reward and lower risk not being nerfed first?
C02 Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:30:47 - [126] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: A year ago, we got the long awaited Capital ship changes which finally revitalized the class as a whole. It was obvious that Capital ships were going to be very powerful, both in PVP and PVE. You gave us powerful end game ships to work towards - something worth commitment to Eve. Roughly six months later you did the same thing with the Rorqual. Now, a year after these changes, when most players have finally begun to benefit from them, you reduce the ships back to roughly where they were before. Maybe that's a good thing in the long run, maybe it's not. Maybe it pisses off so many people who feel that you pulled another bait and switch with training. Maybe it makes Battleships great again. But this is a major change that affects way more than running anomalies. Nine months ago, it was clear that this game was headed to "Carriers online." Carriers were going to be the mainline DPS boats for PVE and PVP fleets. These training and resource intensive ships were going to be totally dominant. And that is what we have seen these past few months in many major battles. Massive numbers of Carriers supported by FAX replacing massive numbers of Battleships supported by Logistics. There has been an arms race these past few months to get massive numbers of people into Carrier and Supercapital fleets. That's why everyone has been ratting and mining until their eyes bleed these past few months, because you handed the keys to the game to resource and training intensive ships. The group with the most wins. Just as it is about to come to fruition for the late comers, you announce a massive and fundamental change to Capital ships. It would be nice if you could be more agile with your development, but it is hard to steer a Battleship (or Carrier ). A small course correction here and there goes a long way. Obviously, this will have profound impacts across Eve, but it won't fix the underlying PVE problem, which is that resources never deplete, no matter how relentlessly you farm. I could run a thousand anomalies and the Blood Raiders would never bat an eye. They never send different ships, they never escalate, they never stop flying right into my guns. If I run Incursions, the Sanshas would basically do the same thing, but at least they move on to a different part of Eve every few days. Maybe you need to fundamentally rethink resource generation in Eve? Get rid of the unlimited local ratting opportunities. Maybe people who log in to find that there are no rats to kill will simply log out again. Or maybe they will do something else and make Eve more interesting. If you pursue this, however, it has to be across the board. Everything has to be finite or people will just shift to continuous PVE in another part of space. Yes, that means the Damsel can only be rescued from Dodixie so many times a day... Across the board, ISK-generating PVE should be more like wormhole space or Incursions. PVE content eventually depletes. Out of things to do locally? Leave home and go kill some dudes or crab it up some place new. this. i wish my brain was able to make this come out
Acia Saraki Core Industry. Blades of Grass 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:31:41 - [127] - Quote I think CCP don't play their game If i can't PLEX my account, it's over for me
Ergum Motsu School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:32:00 - [128] - Quote Rather than nerfing fighter damage, why not fix the sites themselves. Add acceleration gates/A N other kind of preventable warp function to to the anomolies preventing carriers/super carrier from entering them. Limit havens/sanctums to Battleship size hulls and move down the list. Reduce the bounties somewhat. This will slow down the influx of isk into the economy. Give null sec something worth wanting to fight over maybe. Implementing the Blood Raider NPC sites to a certain region giving more content to be farmed, making one of if not the richest alliances even richer yet with nothing to spend that isk on as theres no wars going on. Why are there no wars going on? FozzieSov = not much fun. Nerfing something in pvp just because its used for farming pve content makes little if no sense......well to me at least, but then again, I am just one of your players what do i know.
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:33:47 - [129] - Quote Hopefully that change will be as much painfull for you as for us CCP . You slowly shoot down all goals for casual players in the game shame and really sad you make wow out of eve .
Atlan Dallocort Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots 84	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:35:32 - [130] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Lightbringer wrote: April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke. I do wonder if CCP even play their own game. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now., so now they do no damage before instantly dieing because of the previous nerf? :D RIP. How do they go from overpowered to no damage if they lose 20% DPS. Seems reasonable to me. You should maybe collect some large scale capital experience. Carrier fleet pvp it the game of fighters. And fighters are very easy to kill since the last signature nerf. An AHAC fleet works like a bunch of 8,8cm Flaks. They murder wave after wave. -> No fighters, no damage.

Fonac Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 121	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:36:49 - [131] - Quote While i totally agree with the above points about isk faucets, and how it dangers the economy. I can't help but feel CCP is doing symptom bandages, instead of actually inventing a cure to the problem. You guys always seem to fix something that's broken, by changing some numbers. Which more often than not is a symptom of broken or bad mechanics. Often it's included with a message of "we'll get back to that later" - Or making an excuse about how it's dangering the new eden world. This without addressing the real issue. And this is a very good example. You got a system that benefits directly from pouring more damage into it. It scales so well, that the output is directly connected with the input you put into it.. If you decide to play with others, you're taking a hit. And reducing your potential output, despite the fact that you perform on the same level, as if you played solo. Not only does this change reduce the damage you do in PvE, it also interferes with your output in PvP. How does that even make sense? And this brings forth my question; Why not look at the issue itself? - The anomaly's and how the mechanics with that system works?
Solidus Obscura Nasty-Boyz Ghost Legion. 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:04 - [132] - Quote Quote: As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. You don't specify whether this is from Carrier ratting versus VNI/Ishtar ratting. Consider the following: Carrier ratting is an extremely focus intensive activity, especially after the nerfs to fighter sig radius. You cannot effectively multibox carriers. VNI/Ishtar ratting is the exact opposite. You warp to site, drop drones, orbit whatever, and in a period of time, the site is clear. This lends itself to 23/7 passive ratting and easy multiboxing. I am struggling to understand why you are nerfing carriers for this reason. If it's really a PVP nerf, then say it's a PVP nerf. Don't beat around the bush with what we all perceive as fake news. And if it is true that carriers are the problem- give us some numbers. A breakdown of NPC bounty income from VNIs/Ishtars versus Carriers. And if it's skewed as you're implying, then you'll have a lot more support. Additionally, carrier ratting generates some of the highest ISK/hr for people that don't significantly multibox. If you nerf this hard then those folks would move to less riskier Incursions in HighSec. This would be extremely bad for the game. Solidus for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=512158&find=unread
Foff Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:34 - [133] - Quote This is mu 1st post on forum for some game... This shuld be game place where you come for some fun, but I dont know why DEV's do all to ruin it. You DEV's(CCP) can say "May Monthly Economy report" but that is just suck. Why suck? Do you know how much time/isk some player need to get in Carrier/Super? let's say some player order Super for 16b, and he need to fit him for like more 7b and he need 17days to produce Super and then, at all that he need to risk ship ~23b isk for just 90m isk per 20 mins of kiling rats... That ship can be kiled by 20's t3 players(T3 whit total 10b whit fit) in less then 5mins, but there will be 50+ players to kill him and gess what, in 3mins 50-80 Caracals(50m ship whit fit) can kill Super which one you plan to nerf instad to buff. Why you did not count on it devils CCP? Whit all your changes untild now and this new what you plan Supers\Carriers will become crap for PvP and crap for PvE.Then lets rat in Titans..Even if you plan to change game mechanic give players more time like 6months or so. I was start to play EvE in H sec, and there I need 3months for mu 1st plex, and I love EvE cose it's game on long plan run, it's hard game, but this change what you plan to do it's just ruin your own child your EvE and us EvE. When I look on this http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/1_regional.stats.png I gess you have problem whit best organized alliance in game, and i gess it's CCP vs GOONS patch And after all I must to say it's look like you dont love your players, ppl which hold this game , hold your child. If you do this big nerff at the and you shuld reduce cost of Carrier(53%) / Supers(60%) and fighters(for 80%) I hope someone from CCP read. Best Regards to all
Darine Artwik Loleroler Capital Distribution 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:35 - [134] - Quote Guess what? Multiboxing SB Battleships? No Nerf! Multiboxing VNIs/Ishtars? No Nerf! Multiboxing Rorquals? Just +1 Soloing Carriers/Supers? Nerfed to death. Soloing Rorquals? Nerfed to death. CCP certainly NOT following a special agenda there. Multiboxing and therefore more sub money for CCP not favored at all.
spacedemolisher Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:38 - [135] - Quote Oh well guess its time to sell the carriers and super, looks like this is dread online now, love it how all the CSM are just sucking face to CCP, guess they get chosen for no brains, i wish actually voting made a difference, not just oh look I'm in a big alliance u must all vote for me...yaywin. Like seriously tho you already made it so subcaps can smash supers, like whats the point in having the long train when u just get murdered by sub caps so easily, if ur going to nerf the damage, at least make it so the aidsy jamming is actually fightable.... like is it hard to bring in a module that increases their strength...... wish CCP wasn't so into nerfing atm like do something new....
Melons Trader Unbeknowns2U 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:38:08 - [136] - Quote Want to stop carriers getting dank ticks. easy give all ratting anoms acceleration gates with ship restrictions the carrier it self dose not need a nerf.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:38:39 - [137] - Quote I used to run incursions as my primary income source until I bought a carrier for pvp. Now a carrier, already the worst PVP cap ship ( remembers old slowcat days fondly now) will also be worse at ratting to support my ever growing cap ships. A carrier to rat in has allowed me to buy more than one cap. Now I have a dread, fax, and a carrier. All what I see in these changes, rorq's, faction BS's, now carriers is a systematic effort to hurt the regular null sec PVPer and give yet more isk to the stupid rich while at the same time trying to turn EVE into a free to play game at the level of WoT or Clash of Clans. I hope it does not get to that point, but sadly looks more and more likely every time I see a post like this one.
Ender Ambrye Risk Breakers Snuffed Out 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:38:50 - [138] - Quote I have been training for carriers on three characters (mainly for PVP) - I have bought injectors, I have reallocated skills buying extractors - in short I have spent a fortune with you, for yet another product that does not reach me as advertised...just like T3s, the Ishtar, etc etc...I pick a high tier ship, train for months at great expense, and then you guys come and nerf bat them into uselessness. Its really s**t practice guys. Fighters V is two months FFS!! Thats -ú20 x 3 you have just devalued significantly - how is that fair? I really think that these nerfs, of high tier, high SP items should come at a cost, to you, the supplier...give us SP, or a sweetener, anything to ease the dismay at you diluting our subscription again and again.
C02 Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:39:06 - [139] - Quote I dont know why I just remembered that Capitals have a 1000% modifier to entosis or somethign like that. Why not just tack on a -80% to pirate bounty payouts on the hull's role and be done rather than mess with a combat ship's combat capability?
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:39:44 - [140] - Quote I guess the formula > %moreplayers = %morecontent = %morefun = %biggerplayerbase = %moreCCPincome is a mistery .... CCP just decided %lessplayers = %lesscontent = %lessfun = %smallerplayerbase = %lessCCPincome Good job to the guy that thought of this....

Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 127	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:40:05 - [141] - Quote CCP; If you wanted to keep carriers as PVP ships, why not make all combat sites static deadspace? That way capitals are not allowed into them. There are many spawnable combat sites that are deadspace locked anyway, why not make them all? You still need to unlock the higher amount of anomolies in the higher security class systems with the sov upgrades, but making them static deadspace and put them on a respawn timer. (Mostly) everyone is happy. Carriers are still powerful pvp machines, but with their inherent weakness to ECM, the "problem" of nullsec isk faucet is turned off, and you haven't nerfed a ship into oblivion. It's still crappy for everyone, but everyone still has something, and a little bit of dignity. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4096	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:40:42 - [142] - Quote oh dear, people wont be able to plex accounts, such unfair, many grrrs Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ranik Sandaris El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 20	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:41:22 - [143] - Quote I dont even use carriers. But **** you CCP. Seriously.
Kromarx Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:44:10 - [144] - Quote after all the rl money being spent on injectors to skill up to carriers, you guys missing the cash stream?
Brown Pathfinder Its a good day to die 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:44:34 - [145] - Quote Lucian James wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: ...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs Isn't one of the big issues with the economy in the game that there are no big wars or any major action going on in null atm?
August - Breeze SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:44:37 - [146] - Quote I am canceling my second account as soon as this month is over. (note: I have never PVE with my carrier) No need to have an account just for my cap pilot as they will not be used very much anymore. I will just transfer it to my main account. If PVE was a problem they should of just nerfed PVE and not the PVP side. I guarantee that this move has cost CCP at least one of my accounts.
lorddlo25 DAB Mordus Angels 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:45:10 - [147] - Quote the real issue I have found is the skill injectors you have so many players with so many accounts that thay just need buy skill injectors to skill up there chars and get it in to a super now times that by 5k players if that and there is your isk Faucet right there. so get rid of skill injectors and skill extractors so ppl can not get in to those ship's so easily and make the isk like it has been doing. that is the only issue and no matter what you do or what you nerf it will not change the fact that a new account can be made and get in to a faction titan and faction fit max skilled with in minutes.
Millpucky KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:45:57 - [148] - Quote Pier Rin wrote: Maybe if you would not have introduced skill injectors there would not have been a problem???? Less carrier/super pilot, less rorqs, no need for nerfs???? And with every nerf/fix, 2 more problems pop up, please dont fix whats not broken. Finally someone has said what should have never been implemented in game
HuntedMaster HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:46:10 - [149] - Quote Oh Dear, I would normally never bother to post on here, But the current direction of CCP is alarming. Changes to Plex, Changes to Rorquals ( don't like mining , don't care , but bad nerfs none the less) Changes to T3's , Changes to Pirate BS Bp drops, Changes to Carriers and Supers.... ( also don't say its anything to do with pvp, I have shiney caps, if they have fighters after your last crop of nerfs they are barely worth using in pvp in most cases) You are not hiding your money grab very well CCP, is it time to cash out? Put your nerf bat away, and let us get on with enjoying the game, I would like to think you would not think your customers to be blind to the obvious direction you are heading, Economists my arse, your wallet has become the concern, not ours.
Jarnobi The Collective Northern Coalition. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:46:28 - [150] - Quote ALL THOSE GOON TEARS !!!! GREAT CHANGE !!!!!!

elise densi Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 67	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:47:05 - [151] - Quote remove the damn poison called skill injectors and ur market will fix itself !
Cyclo Hexanol The Dickwad Squad Rote Kapelle 66	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:48:23 - [152] - Quote Why not just make fighters ineffective against NPC and player subcaps? Seems like that would solve both the problem of carriers being used to over farm anoms and them being dropped on roaming gangs and solo pilots just because they cant be countered by those gangs effectively. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ King of Stating the Obvious 2015 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Elected by: Random forum alt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Colonel Carter Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:48:37 - [153] - Quote I never flown carriers but this looks like a super hardcore kitchen sink nerf to fighter abilities. Maybe make it 10% nerf instead to soften the blow?
aussieftw Marvinovi pratele Circle-Of-Two 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:48:43 - [154] - Quote CCP you just making people angry, but this will not help. Your real problems are jump fatigue, fozziesov and skill injectors. Just think for few seconds about that, why you have too much isks in game and too many people with capital ships.
Jin Booster Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:49:02 - [155] - Quote hahah funny i am done with this game
Chance Ambramotte KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:05 - [156] - Quote This is not a balancing adjustment. This is part of several changes that all lead to one thing: A cash grab by CCP. The PLEX has been split into the 500 units for 1 month new dynamic. The PLEX has also replaced AURUM. Training times are extensive and the only way to get some of these skills in a timely fashion is skill injectors or ghost train. Now we nerf the primary in game cash generators into irrelevance. All this means is if you want to have an effective pilot, buy PLEX, if you want to have time to work, shower, live and still have progress in the game buy PLEX. And so on, slowly every problem is starting to have the same solution: buy PLEX. Soon this game will be pay to win (Buy PLEX) This is all part of the EA Games micro transaction cancer where fun, gameplay or entertainment are all trampled in the attempt to drain the wallets of the players as fast as possible. For the record I have only on account, and no capitol ships and do not mine. We will see if greed will continue to reign at CCP or if they want to continue to have a game business in the near future.
Racken Ormand Something Something Darkside. Circle-Of-Two 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:09 - [157] - Quote Shock. i have read many of the replies and many make perfect sense. Instead of nerfing a carrier on it's PVE capabilities why don't you just decrease bounty payouts. Carriers are valuable assets to their owners and using them is highly risky and if you get caught in one ratting consider yourself dead 90% of the time. Now you are making them less valuable. Good to see that CCP is going out of it's way lately to displease so many of us who have spent hundreds if not thousands over the years on memberships to play this game in which we have invested so many hours into.
Ergum Motsu School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:19 - [158] - Quote And what happened to garnering player feedback to gauge ideas before implementing changes or is that a thing of the past? Telling people less than a week before said changes are going to happen smacks of poor customer relations.
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 107	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:25 - [159] - Quote Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! ! You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue. You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis! You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell. You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content. And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting????????? The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME! Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:58 - [160] - Quote aussieftw wrote: CCP you just making people angry, but this will not help. Your real problems are jump fatigue, fozziesov and skill injectors. Just think for few seconds about that, why you have too much isks in game and too many people with capital ships. You forgot citadels.

aussieftw Marvinovi pratele Circle-Of-Two 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:51:51 - [161] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! ! You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue. You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis! You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell. You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content. And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting????????? The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME! Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play. Exactly.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:51:57 - [162] - Quote Dear space friends, Due to this upcoming fighter nerf, I'd like to share with you not often known or spoken ways of PVE null isk making. I wish you spread this message to all corners of Eveverse for everyone should no longer scramble for isk and live poor! ************************************************************************************ Step.1** - Make a new toon (if you don't have one) Step.2 - Upgrade it to Omega Step.3 - Buy 1 Injector (is enough) and skill up for either Vexor Navy Issue or Rattlesnake and required mods (use factions or DED, must be CAP stable!) Step.4 - Fly them into the advanced 7/10 or 8/10 sites, VNI will be speed tanking (orbiting an object - a wreck or can), Rattle can sit still. Step.5 - release drones and walk afk or do something else on your PC. Step.6 - come back after 30-45 minutes when site is done, warp to the next site and repeat from Step.4 This method is relatively safe, npcs of 7/10 and 8/10 will not break your tank and you do not risk Dreadnaught spawning on you while you're AFK. Ticks between 12-15mil, sit them in sites all day with minimum attendance and for maximum convenience! For absolute AFKers (who don't attend their computers at all) - to prevent getting you killed by passers-by or gangs, have an active player in the system be your squad leader able to warp you off (cause that's what friends are for) should the danger be heading your way (do not mind lost drones). Because unlike us, Supercarrier ratters, who have to micromanage our supers, actively mash buttons of our keyboard and mouse every second we're out there ratting, you don't! Collect over 250+mil each day per toon and enjoy - you are all soon to be billionaires! ************************************************************************************** I, sincerely, hope this message reaches as many capsuleers as possible, that you all become rich without having to play the game of preposterous nerfs against SUPERactive players and that you all will finally be able to afford all your dreams effortlessly. Share this with every newbie and every Alpha, help your fellow capsuleers get into awesome ways of iskmaking in AFK VNIs and Rattles today and rip that monthly economic report that CCP can... whatever. Enjoy. Peace out .\/
Wilfred Motte Shadow Proclamation 15 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:52:11 - [163] - Quote Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates. Well played, CCP. Well. Played.
Linda Bradford Raschke LBR Group 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:52:50 - [164] - Quote The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. BS. I think everyone here knows you only support this because the big bad supers kicked your sand castle over.
Anthar Thebess 1701	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:03 - [165] - Quote Wilfred Motte wrote: Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates. Well played, CCP. Well. Played. Charge back Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Tiesto DJ Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:15 - [166] - Quote Chance Ambramotte wrote: This is not a balancing adjustment. This is part of several changes that all lead to one thing: A cash grab by CCP. The PLEX has been split into the 500 units for 1 month new dynamic. The PLEX has also replaced AURUM. Training times are extensive and the only way to get some of these skills in a timely fashion is skill injectors or ghost train. Now we nerf the primary in game cash generators into irrelevance. All this means is if you want to have an effective pilot, buy PLEX, if you want to have time to work, shower, live and still have progress in the game buy PLEX. And so on, slowly every problem is starting to have the same solution: buy PLEX. Soon this game will be pay to win (Buy PLEX) This is all part of the EA Games micro transaction cancer where fun, gameplay or entertainment are all trampled in the attempt to drain the wallets of the players as fast as possible. For the record I have only on account, and no capitol ships and do not mine. We will see if greed will continue to reign at CCP or if they want to continue to have a game business in the near future. Here is a catch 22. In order to sell PLEX people need isk to buy PLEX. If they reduce ISK faucets, they reduce the isk being generated for PLEX and to this degree injectors. Taking a dump on isk faucets and forgetting to flush will eventually stagnate the PLEX market as ISK will become tied to a few accounts. It will also reduce the amount of people buying them.
Killah Bee North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:18 - [167] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Great changes Yo Mr. Kestrel the cookies are to shut up when the cakes are talking okay ? Thanks
Takashi X2 Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:30 - [168] - Quote I tried to read most of the responses but one thing never came up. This change renders regular carriers unable to run dreads. I do feel like the carriers have a lot of dps and maybe needed to be scaled back a bit but not 20 percent. I think that is a little drastic. As of right now I barely have enough dps with t2 fighters to run a dread and i have to pull them back once sometimes twice to reload on missiles to do it. With 20% gone im not sure I can actually beat the reps anymore. My suggestion is lower the amount of armor while upping the amount of hull. This will still make you need a significant amount of dps which the carrier can do in bursts without rendering them completely unable to. Supers will still be complete overkill like before so it doesnt make any difference there one way or another.
addelee KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 103	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:47 - [169] - Quote So, rorq's get nerfed as they're an isk facet and now fighters. This will reduce the amount of isk ingame and also push prices of things up making plex suddenly an attractive option. I get why CCP are doing it, they want more money, but it'll push people away thus leading to them having less money. I suspect, given a choice, CCP would leave us with 1 ship so it's a level playing field and they'd probably still have to rebalance that!
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 92	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:52 - [170] - Quote I find this rather unnessesary. Carrier-Ratting was an efficient ratting-method for ppl with only a single character that at least let them compensate for their lack of multiboxing somewhat. (carrier-ratting is too much micromanagement to multibox, but very efficient with a single character) Super-carrier-ratting is even forbidden in a lot of regions, because their alliances don't think its a good idea. And if you risk your permaclick 30bil isk slowpoke u better make some more isk than 2 navy vexors. 1. Carrier-Ratting is completly compensated by the inability to multibox 2. supercarrier-ratting is compensated by the inability to multibox and the risk of losing the ship The only problem I see here is if your supercarrier is absolutely 100% safe because of your alliances backup, as that pushes supercarriers over the top. I think a better solution to this problem would be the following: Prevent Supercarriers from fitting Cynos. This way if one gets attked the other 30 cant just jump to it, making it impossible to kill. That should be enough balance for super-ratting. Carrier-ratting is in a good place for reasons stated above. About myself: I have a ratting-carrier but I don't use it, because its not efficient for me isk/h. I would like to rat in a super but it's not allowed in my region and god damn risky without backup. That means your proposed nerf will actually help me, as it nerfs income of my competitors but in no way nerfs multiboxing income like mining with 20 rorquals (:

Lucian James THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two 175	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:04 - [171] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! ! You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue. You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis! You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell. You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content. And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting????????? The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME! Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play. #CCPigs
Pesadel0 Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc. 130	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:14 - [172] - Quote So you nerfing carriers and supers ability to make money in PVE nuking them in PVP also , why not nerf the damage they do only to NPC? I mean god forbid you actually ADD PVE content to nullsec , and i hope you nerf incursions and WH income .
Cpt Makanen School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:18 - [173] - Quote There is a simple Solution for all These Problems... Just fire all the eve devs and "Designers" we better call them destroyer. Reset the Servers and hire devs which Listen to the Little playerbase we got. I hate to read all this we are the devs we def. Know what you want ****. If any of the devs would know it than we wouldnt See such changes right now.
Ranik Sandaris El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:44 - [174] - Quote http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Dont those numbers over 5 years worry you CCP?
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4096	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:56:24 - [175] - Quote Wilfred Motte wrote: Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates. Well played, CCP. Well. Played. that sounds totally *******, you can now extract and get your isk back to buy a million frigates Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou
Guillejejeje XDD What The FAX 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:56:45 - [176] - Quote why dont you nerf citadels? is ridiculous in all aspects
Decres Estidal Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:57:49 - [177] - Quote Cyclo Hexanol wrote: Why not just make fighters ineffective against NPC and player subcaps? Seems like that would solve both the problem of carriers being used to over farm anoms and them being dropped on roaming gangs and solo pilots just because they cant be countered by those gangs effectively. Carriers are anti-subcap platforms, they do **** all do caps. And if you can't lock and kill that carriers fighters that is solo dropping you you have no right to complain after the last nerf they are poss easy to kill now they do 20% less damage.
alex tow Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:57:49 - [178] - Quote It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again.
Aria Blackmoon Closer to the Clouds 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:58:49 - [179] - Quote Killah Bee wrote: Suitonia wrote: Great changes Yo Mr. Kestrel the cookies are to shut up when the cakes are talking okay ? Thanks I give Killah right
Danny Woo Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:59:04 - [180] - Quote those nubmers are insane, so much wasted RL time and money and u do this? Give me one good reason to not end this while i can...

Trevor2014 Gunson Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time Solyaris Chtonium 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:59:24 - [181] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Yes, cause carrier and super carrier drones are the real problem here. Yes, cause HS Incursions aren't an isk sink whatsoever (coming from someone who ran them 8 hours a day) and Ratting in anoms for ONE MONTH because there's really no content anymore breaks the system. Yes, cause AKFtar's are "Working as Intended". Yes, cause AFK VNI's for low-skilled afkers are a thing. yes, cause CCP made it possible to become a super pilot in 5 minutes. Yes, cause SOV is apparently great as you have to sit in one place for 5 minutes with your D* out cause that's why you play a game? Yes, cause RISK Vs. REWARD isn't a thing anymore and I should fly a Hel that gets a 30M tick when i can fly a VNI or Isthar getting the same ticks and go to the store for some cookies and milk and make half the cost of my ship back on a Gamble chance no one enters my system? Yes, cause end-game isn't broken af now due to getting nerf hammers constantly. I think you need to re-evaluate what are "isk sinks" within the game. here's what you should fix: Fozzie SOV was the worst idea you ever came up with, it destroyed content generated. Get rid of it or get rid of your highly prized citadels. having both at the same time is not letting anyone take SOV just for the lol's. Small citadels get shorter rf time periods. big citadels get longer time periods. (kinda a duhh realization there) Make HS incursion rats harder to kill. (incorporate your new all-mighty NPC Player Mirror abilities or whatever you call it into HS Isk sinks, GET RID OF THE NO RISK FOR UNLIMITED REWARD BULLS* THAT IS HS INCURSIONS). Get rid of the Entosis BS.... wait, did I already mention that? Lower the Bounty payouts of rats everywhere in every region (that would surely drop the Isk Sink that apparently is in NS cause we can't do anything with no major wars going on) Make NPC rats tougher everywhere (and double their HP for HS incursions cause they are carebears and need to work for their isk just like everyone else) one last thing before i finish my rant and 2nd forum post ever cause i don't like doing this stuff Listen to your community and ACTUALLY read these forum posts, it's literally the same things over and over and over.... DO something about it. Isn't that why we have CSM's or whatever they are called, don't really know their names cause I hardly ever hear them doing anything for the community. Stop bringing in new items, and go back over the stuff already here and fix it, NOT NERF IT, upgrade it. delete this, delete that, then... then you can start working on new things.
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 108	Posted - 2017.06.09 11:59:43 - [182] - Quote addelee wrote: So, rorq's get nerfed as they're an isk facet and now fighters. This will reduce the amount of isk ingame and also push prices of things up making plex suddenly an attractive option. I get why CCP are doing it, they want more money, but it'll push people away thus leading to them having less money. The changes seem rather drastic so I guess we'll see another rebalance when they're run out of things to nerf. I suspect, given a choice, CCP would leave us with 1 ship so it's a level playing field and they'd probably still have to rebalance that! And don't forget, everyone gets a shiny new participation trophy.
Chance Ambramotte KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:00:10 - [183] - Quote here is a more positive direction to handle the inflation issues present in Eve: Extra Credits: MMO economies
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 108	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:02 - [184] - Quote alex tow wrote: It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right?
Pier Rin State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:07 - [185] - Quote Jarnobi wrote: ALL THOSE GOON TEARS !!!! GREAT CHANGE !!!!!! you really think this will hurt goons???? and no 1 else..... you are naive
Hikkata Sequent Industry Red Alliance 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:07 - [186] - Quote Ok, if u want to nerf carriers and supers, then nerf hi-sec and low-sec incursions with ratting in wh pls.
WheelsUK Amok. Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:14 - [187] - Quote I feel that CCP have forgotten this is just a game and are trying to turn it into a 2nd job for us. It's also clear that CCP never thought passed 10 years for this game and a huge percentage of the player base will be carrier/super pilots and ratting in them reduces the grind time for most of us so why would we choose to rat in anything smaller we have also surley earned the right to be able to do this after so many years. Then they introduce Skill Injectors meaning more and more people got into the end game ships faster, so why are they punishing us for them wanting to make a quick dollar and not thinking of the long term problems it causes. Also i think all the Jita/Goon scammers are bowing to CCP right now, how many people how spent hard earned isk or real life money on skill injectors for the prize at the end to be taken away. Scam of all Scams. I have been playing EvE for over 11 years and never felt more like wanting to quit than i do now. i only hope that we do a massive burn EvE protest in Goons.
Millpucky KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:54 - [188] - Quote Wilfred Motte wrote: Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates. Well played, CCP. Well. Played. 2 weeks? WOW! see skill injectors need to go away. Took me YEARS to get into a Capital class ship.
ShadowBill Federation of Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:02:28 - [189] - Quote Several posts back - I think whoever said it, nailed it. CCP used the phrase 'sustainable'. This seems to me that ratting was ISK profitable enough to cover PLEX, and that means fewer subs. This certainly seems like a money grab.
phantom blackstar Steel Fury. Triumvirate. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:02:43 - [190] - Quote I haven't played world of warcraft in a while....... only need 1 account and wont have to buy plex.

Millpucky KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:02:55 - [191] - Quote WheelsUK wrote: I feel that CCP have forgotten this is just a game and are trying to turn it into a 2nd job for us. It's also clear that CCP never thought passed 10 years for this game and a huge percentage of the player base will be carrier/super pilots and ratting in them reduces the grind time for most of us so why would we choose to rat in anything smaller we have also surley earned the right to be able to do this after so many years. Then they introduce Skill Injectors meaning more and more people got into the end game ships faster, so why are they punishing us for them wanting to make a quick dollar and not thinking of the long term problems it causes. Also i think all the Jita/Goon scammers are bowing to CCP right now, how many people how spent hard earned isk or real life money on skill injectors for the prize at the end to be taken away. Scam of all Scams. I have been playing EvE for over 11 years and never felt more like wanting to quit than i do now. i only hope that we do a massive burn EvE protest in Goons. Here here brother
elise densi Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 71	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:04:44 - [192] - Quote Rip eve 2003 - 2017
alex tow Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:05:36 - [193] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: alex tow wrote: It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right? Of course it does....why do you think I would forget this ? I hate the plex price which encourage to buy some to get isk, I hate skill extractors and injectors and I HATE the capital ship becoming standard ships.
O2 jayjay Usque Ad Mortem Solyaris Chtonium 60	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:05:59 - [194] - Quote Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move.
Peyton Achibolt Peyton Achibolt Corporation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:06:39 - [195] - Quote What exactly will a nerf that high to fighterdamage solve? No one can tell me, that a capital ship, thats too work-intense to use while ratting - and therefore deserves the bounty earned, due to its price and high amount of activity need - needs roughly 20% less damage. Let-¦s face it. What CCP really is trying here, is ending the game with as much moneygrab as possible. Playerbase has been shrinking further and further for quite a while now. So to - at least - milk the cow as much as possible, CCP brought up injectors. What they do now, is handing us candy, to inject into. Then taking that candy away, rubbing their balls with it, and handing it back, so we extract out of it. What i-¦ve seen over the last months of repeated nerfs to about everything nullsecbased cant lead to another conclusion. At least for me. There is no "risk = reward" anymore. Just as there isnt "CCP doesnt interfere with economy" or anything like that. There just is "shove as much $ into our hands before we shut the server". Really, if you WANT to stop the game after all that years, just SAY it, and stop that whole bullshit you-¦re developing right now.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network 759	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:07:19 - [196] - Quote Lightbringer wrote: Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell? Yesterday people complained the Battleship nerf would make Carriers the default king of the meta. Now CCP is dealing with Carriers and people want to cry? My assumption is they are pushing towards T1 battleships You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Inquisitor Lucious Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:07:39 - [197] - Quote O2 jayjay wrote: Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too
Parovozkin Lasombros Rezeda Core Rezeda Regnum 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:07:47 - [198] - Quote -Ü-¦-¦-+-¦-ì-¦ -¦-ï ******, -Å 10 -+-Å-+-+-¦ -ü-+ -¦-+-+-+ -+-+-è-¦-¦-é-+-Ç-¦-+-+ -+-¦ -¦-¦-Ç-â, -¦-+ -¦-ü-¦-+ -ü-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-+-ï-¦-¦-Å..-¦ -é-â-é -+-¦ -+-Ç-+-ê-+-+ -+ -+-¦-ü-Å-å-¦ -¦-¦-¦ -é-¦-¦-+-¦ -¦-+-¦-+-¦ -+-¦-Ç-ä, -ü-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+ -¦-¦-+.
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 113	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:08:09 - [199] - Quote alex tow wrote: Total Newbie wrote: alex tow wrote: It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right? Of course it does....why do you think I would forget this ? I hate the plex price which encourage to buy some to get isk, I hate skill extractors and injectors and I HATE the capital ship becoming standard ships. You obviously dont fly one. If/when you do, don't expect to use it for it's main purpose (Battle), because the Aids/Time required to get to a fight isn't worth it. You can hop into your trusty Interceptor and play Frigates online with the rest of the folks
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:08:30 - [200] - Quote Thank goodness that reddit users let people know that the all the skills queues on their paid accounts were broken because CCP didn't have time to communicate with their paying customers while they were preparing this post! Sadly, whilst many of you are raising valid points, suggestions and observations, I hope that you don't expect CCP to listen to you. If they had wanted to do that (and judging by things lately, they do not) then they wouldn't had popped this change into the rorqual nerfs patch with just 4 days notice. Just as well that most people are busy in game restarting their skill queues which is potentially a better use of their time than making decent suggestions in this thread, because it's just as likely that they'd listen to my suggestion and delete Delve rather than actually fixing the real issues with the game and it's long term health.

Grella Khurelem KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:08:52 - [201] - Quote Takashi X2 wrote: I tried to read most of the responses but one thing never came up. This change renders regular carriers unable to run dreads. I do feel like the carriers have a lot of dps and maybe needed to be scaled back a bit but not 20 percent. I think that is a little drastic. As of right now I barely have enough dps with t2 fighters to run a dread and i have to pull them back once sometimes twice to reload on missiles to do it. With 20% gone im not sure I can actually beat the reps anymore. My suggestion is lower the amount of armor while upping the amount of hull. This will still make you need a significant amount of dps which the carrier can do in bursts without rendering them completely unable to. Supers will still be complete overkill like before so it doesnt make any difference there one way or another. Interesting point. Are Havens now unrunnable except with supers? Dreads can oneshot Ishtars. With the increased aggro to fighters and less damage, a carrier with T1s will lose more in fighters than they can make in bounties to be able to run any anoms and carriers with T2s won't be able to do enough damage to complete one.
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 113	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:09:10 - [202] - Quote Inquisitor Lucious wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too And please don't forget, that shortly after this death nail, a new series of skins will appear.
Trevize Demerzel 93	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:09:33 - [203] - Quote Wow I have nothing nice to say that would follow the forum rules. I unsubbing 9 accounts when I get home from work. I shall find another game to play that the developers aren't hell bent on ruining. -
Heleana Commodus Luyseyal Old Town Blades of Grass 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:10:14 - [204] - Quote "Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players." Yeah those players that were skilling up towards it, for years, other thing is you cant multi box carriers in PvE, and you are limited to 200 mills/h with all skills on 5 etc, so exponential growth is not possible, and icome is locked to that number. Rorquals on the other hand can do same amount of isk/h but no need to micro anything, so you can run 20+ rorqual accounts with not much issues. So what are we talking about over here? "We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP." Can somebody tell CPP that in fleet engagements combat carriers role is basically Neuts and anti-fighter fighters, and DPS have nothing to do with it.You have dreads, for the price of 1 carrier you have more DPS than a Supercarrier. The one may ask himself why to even undock 30 bill ship, which took 2 years to skill up. Can CCP actually hire some professional for these things, all this looks like its being done by over payed amateurs who don't know much about the game they are working on, nor they can code good.
Dan Jintao What Could Go Wrong DARKNESS. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:10:35 - [205] - Quote So this is a bad change, and here's why: 1) You have made a change to a ship based on it's (admittedly overpowered) isk making ability that massively affects its pvp capability. Your statement that it is overpowered for pvp is not borne out, due to your recent nerf, as I will explain later. 2) You have greatly reduced the overall utility of a ship that many players have invested huge amounts of their time or IRL money to get into without even changing the base cost of the ship itself. This is naturally going to upset large parts of the player base, such as many of my salty alliance mates who have posted here because you have now wasted their hard earned isk. 3) You have nerfed the PVP capability of a ship right after a previous nerf, without there being sufficient data to determine whether the original nerf had had the intended effect. My reasoning here is that super fights don't come up that much. And by fights I don't mean Goon/PL/NC super blob lands on normal size cap fleet and obliterates everything in site. Frankly, when you have that much dominance by ship class, you SHOULD be dominating everything in site. My point is that fights where team A and team B have a similar number of capital class ships and a few supers in the mix, this doesn't actually come up that much. Making changes to the meta should be borne out by a reasonable portion of data. The nerf to the price of pirate battleships for example is entirely warranted because we have had an immense amount of data to show that pirate battleships are overly dominant in the meta and it has stabilised on a single hull, which makes the game boring AF. That's a good nerf. However, there has not yet been suffiicent data to show the effect of the fighter nerf and whether or not it has been effective. My own limited impressions have been that that nerf has actually made supers extremely easy to defang, making them extremely expensive lumps of scrap metal. This was borne out in the PL dunk of CO2 supers, where gram squadrons were used with great effect to render CO2 supers helpless. Many alliances have not yet realised this and dropping supers often ends fights because they retain boogey man status in the meta. The eve community needs to time to learn and adapt tactics to create a new meta, following a nerf or a buff. With supers, that period is longer, because there are less of them and they are used less and by a much small number of alliances. However, instead of observing this rule, CCP have followed what was a very strong nerf, with another immense nerf. This is a poor call. These three points lead me to the conclusion that this is a bad change. So, what would be a better change? The last of your changes is the correct way to go. If you want to nerf the isk sink, plug the hole, not the water. Massively increasing aggro against fighters (100% plus would be warranted) will make this mode of ratting far less desirable and make it cost more in practice for those who do it. This one change can single handedly solve the problem. You don't have to patch a problem that doesn't exist, or at least can't be proven through any meaningful data.
Zoey Quickpoke School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:11:06 - [206] - Quote This is great stuff! Make the Ravens great again!
Xuan Menzoberanza Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:11:11 - [207] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: Inquisitor Lucious wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too And please don't forget, that shortly after this death nail, a new series of skins will appear. Skins for Carriers and supers
Lucian James THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two 183	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:12:00 - [208] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/1Zp87xk.png i just made this :D
Sapphire Voice Higher Than Everest The-Culture 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:12:04 - [209] - Quote Oh! I know what CCP does when it's own team is lazy to find a solution. They post a completely insane announcement, and then waiting till smart players will post a bit less stupid solution on that stupid nerf in their comments. And at the end then they will say that this decision was based on our comments!!! Just watch it! I swear they will implement that stupid nerf. And If that will gonna happen I will unsub all my Supers alts. No jokes CCP!!!
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:14:21 - [210] - Quote CCP has statistics for almost everything. It means, that they probably do have it covered with data telling them carrier and super ratting is just OP money faucet, even compared to incursions so reason is surely there. Also, Incursions are group activity and actually need a lot of organization compared to solo ratting in null so thats one point why Incursions are not targeted probably. However, nerfing Fighter damage overall is IMHO "easy solution", which is bad. I am afraid to take my carrier into PVP as it is bacause I can be killed easily by couple of subcaps, my high damage and jump drive is the only thing that makes my Thanatos Carrier different from Dominix. If problem is Capitals in PVE, then the addressed problem should be CARRIERS AND PVE, not carriers overall. The best solution IMO would be to code rats some special "fighter resistance" or "fighter damage taken reduction". You can play with that number then to optimize ISK ticks to some reasonable levels. Nerfing carriers in PVP is bad. They are weak already IMO.

Kromarx Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:14:41 - [211] - Quote Instead of nerfing an entire ship class and lengthy drone skill train, consider nerfing the value of the anomolies??
Heleana Commodus Luyseyal Old Town Blades of Grass 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:16:03 - [212] - Quote CCP should start drug testing their employees.
Omega Erkkinen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:18:02 - [213] - Quote This is a poor decision Months of training, 25bill aprox cost to buy and fit Rendered effectively useless by CCP spitting in our face with an over the top nerf Poor poor decision that leaves me questioning the game direction? If I work hard towards an objective and achieve it CCP could ruin it with a stroke of the keyboard. Why should we bother? CCPS tagline about building your dream and ruining other people's seems to ring more true for their dev,'s who destroy more player dreams than anyone
Sapphire Voice Higher Than Everest The-Culture 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:18:20 - [214] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: CCP has statistics for almost everything. It means, that they probably do have it covered with data telling them carrier and super ratting is just OP money faucet, even compared to incursions so reason is surely there. Also, Incursions are group activity and actually need a lot of organization compared to solo ratting in null so thats one point why Incursions are not targeted probably. However, nerfing Fighter damage overall is IMHO "easy solution", which is bad. I am afraid to take my carrier into PVP as it is bacause I can be killed easily by couple of subcaps because of being almost immobile and easily hunted down, my high damage and jump drive is the only thing that makes my Thanatos Carrier different from Dominix. If problem is Capitals in PVE, then the addressed problem should be CARRIERS AND PVE, not carriers overall. I do understand that you propably dont want to reduce anomaly payouts, because that would also nerf all other ratters, not only carrier users. So, the best solution IMO would be to code rats some special "fighter resistance" or "fighter damage taken reduction". You can play with that number then to optimize ISK ticks to some reasonable levels. Nerfing carriers in PVP is bad. They are weak already IMO. You know what CCP will say on this: Nah , that's too complicated to code we don't have so much time to do that. And yeah we want PVPers to suffer as well. Because we can!
Siobhan MacLeary Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 239	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:18:36 - [215] - Quote "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ - CCP Soundwave
Drengi Achasse The Ancients of Eternity The Pestilent Legion 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:20:15 - [216] - Quote How about reducing bounties? Or changing absolutely everything other than the ship itself? These changes to the ships are targeted at PvE, but they are making the PvP aspect of them very useless as well...
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:20:41 - [217] - Quote Siobhan MacLeary wrote: "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO.
Ares Splinter Bank Of Zion Circle-Of-Two 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:22:20 - [218] - Quote Elena Cassidy wrote: hey lets nerf everything that makes money end game thanks ccp think i might be leaving game permintly this time now theres gonna be no way to afford anything cant do rorq mining it got nerf bat from hell cant do Carrier or Super Ratting its getting nerfed to hell now why is end game Stuff getting nerfed. You are making it impossible to to pay for this game within the game because you are trying to be money hungry with this stupid * plex meta bull**. wake up CCP your killing your own game you are far from alone leaving servel members in our coprs are going too ours Rorq miners have say stop ...also now
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16060	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:22:53 - [219] - Quote "JUST BUFF NULLSEC" The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms. the Guide wrote: With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely. The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough! This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE. And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents).
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 115	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:23:59 - [220] - Quote Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP. Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you: 1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers. 2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter 3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it. 4. Spend less time pushing entities deeper into their own sandbox and free them up to kill each other. 5. Make a grand announcement that you have decided to sell the game to a developer who enjoys war and not creating stupid color schemes for ships.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16060	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:25:48 - [221] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. In addition to my last post I did want to say that while this is necessary, it may just drive folks to do other things. Incursions are still a thing yes, but there is also the issue of blitzing lvl 5 missions with carriers and supers which will make more income than supers and carriers can now. People don't do it as much because anoms existed, but that might change. I know you guys are working on PVE after our talks in the BR Sotiyo thread, so thanks.
btOw Ragnarson Lisnave Mordus Angels 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:26:17 - [222] - Quote Nice job afther 10 y play eve just cancel my all accounts , i dont gona play 1 game nerf come all days and just for who have alot of skils you wish nerf isk making nerf every one start ban scan in jita
Madbuster73 Snuff Box Snuffed Out 151	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:26:21 - [223] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: If you wan to slow down PVE income - reduce bounty, or increase the rat EHP. THIS ^^
Arquaz Fz Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:26:29 - [224] - Quote Welcome to Nerf Online, a new kind of survival game.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1378	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:27:01 - [225] - Quote CCP Larrikin 2nd only to Fozzie in not understanding what "game Balance" is. You guys show over and over just how little you know about the game you "develop" (LOL that word just doesn't fit at all with what happens in Iceland anymore) If income from Anoms is too high you reduce the income not nerf ships. You do a balance change specifically due to ratting ticks but instead of just finding a fix for that issue you reduce the PVP usefulness of the ships. How fukin brilliant you guys are.. Increase cost of everything produced in the game with mining nerfs, push up prices of pirate BS then nerf income at the same time. Do you not want to keep active players active? Game balance my great aunt Ginnies patooti - You don't have a clue... CCP Larrikin - The circus is looking for an animal attendant - You get to shovel all the shite you want there. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Siobhan MacLeary Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 239	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:27:07 - [226] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Siobhan MacLeary wrote: "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. An alternative thought: decrease pirate SIG to make it harder to hit them with fighters. I feel increasingly like these changes are designed specifically to **** over goons. Rorqual nerfs, then pirate BS price increase, then carrier nerfs. In order: Screws with income for our members, screws with our future ability to supply high-end doctrines, then fucks with both line member income and utility in PvP. GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ - CCP Soundwave
Erie TehGM Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:28:04 - [227] - Quote CCP never listen to majority of players, do they? Most people didn't want previous fighter changes. "We want your feedback". Nothing changed, feedback mostly negative (at least as I saw it). Granted, that change wasn't back, but on to next point. Now next fighter nerf. And this one is actually significant. Make it half this, and it won't be bad. But this is ridiculous. Fozzie sov significantly reduced isk drains. No one likes fozzie sov, either. Just listen to community and you'll know. (hint hint) Make more isk losses and reduce isk income less. That's the way to do it, and people will then enjoy PvP (and game overally) more. Not the other way around. I'll also quote my fellow corpie Quote: VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier ratting = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super ratting = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b) Seems balanced to me. Do you guys even play this game? =/
Biblised Deninard Shadow Mantis Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:28:23 - [228] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. #CCPigs
Racken Ormand Something Something Darkside. Circle-Of-Two 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:30:14 - [229] - Quote Omega Erkkinen wrote: This is a poor decision Months of training, 25bill aprox cost to buy and fit Rendered effectively useless by CCP spitting in our face with an over the top nerf Poor poor decision that leaves me questioning the game direction? If I work hard towards an objective and achieve it CCP could ruin it with a stroke of the keyboard. Why should we bother? CCPS tagline about building your dream and ruining other people's seems to ring more true for their dev,'s who destroy more player dreams than anyone That's exactly what they are doing taking end game ships and nerfing them making them pointless. Good way to keep people engaged CCP.
Yavin Four Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:30:43 - [230] - Quote How to break your game and anger your players by slashing their income: Step 1: Increase sig radius to all fighters Step 2: Decrease damage output to all fighters. Step 3: Again, Decrease damage output to all fighters by 20%. Step 4: ??? Step 5: No profit

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16060	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:31:33 - [231] - Quote Madbuster73 wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: If you wan to slow down PVE income - reduce bounty, or increase the rat EHP. THIS ^^ NOT this. Why punish everyone when Carriers and supers are the problem? I didn't jump on the Carrier/Super Carrier ratting bandwagon (nor the Rorq bandwagon) because I knew this would happen eventually. I rat in sub capital ships and should not have to have a harder time because everyone else jumped on an isk making FOTM.
Barduck Martins Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc. 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:24 - [232] - Quote With this many people will rat only to plex and cant afford buying ships to big pvp battles in nullsec. When foi think you find a problem you have to think in what outcome your solution will bring. It shows more and more every day your hunger for money from RL.
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:42 - [233] - Quote Siobhan MacLeary wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Siobhan MacLeary wrote: "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. An alternative thought: decrease pirate SIG to make it harder to hit them with fighters. I feel increasingly like these changes are designed specifically to **** over goons. Rorqual nerfs, then pirate BS price increase, then carrier nerfs. In order: Screws with income for our members, screws with our future ability to supply high-end doctrines, then fucks with both line member income and utility in PvP. Goons like to present nerfs as Anti-Goons nerfs but believe me or not, other people also use carriers for ratting.
HuntedMaster HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:47 - [234] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Siobhan MacLeary wrote: "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. Wrong, what your doing is making 6 ishtars the way to go, and still plexing all your accounts, and risking nothing, hell use Vni's. You be talkin a load o dat rubbish der.
Slummin Alea Iacta Est Universal Blades of Grass 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:54 - [235] - Quote Ccp let's trillions of ISK into the economy via afk cheaters and then nerfs people who enjoy actually playing the game
0risis University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:34:11 - [236] - Quote (1) Buy injectors on market to shore up "Core Skills" (2) Finish training needed skills (3) Begin recouping costs for injectors (4) Extract "Core Skills" as they become useless (5) See steps 1-4
Grella Khurelem KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:34:37 - [237] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: Inquisitor Lucious wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too And please don't forget, that shortly after this death nail, a new series of skins will appear. Didn't you hear?!? A new set of skins comes out every Tuesday! Oh CCP, you might want to cut back on that now.
My Nin Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:34:46 - [238] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. . Sadly I am forced to call bullshit on you right there CCP Hypercreet
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:12 - [239] - Quote Yavin Four wrote: How to break your game and anger your players by slashing their income: Step 1: Increase sig radius to all fighters Step 2: Decrease damage output to all fighters. Step 3: Again, Decrease damage output to all fighters by 20%. Step 4: ??? Step 5: No profit Well the problem is, your income is so high it causes inflation in the game. So .. yes, reducing your income IS the point here.
Linda Bradford Raschke LBR Group 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:19 - [240] - Quote Lucian James wrote: http://i.imgur.com/1Zp87xk.png i just made this :D #CCPigs You forgot to label the AFK VNIs and Ishtars in the background.

Grella Khurelem KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:49 - [241] - Quote HuntedMaster wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Siobhan MacLeary wrote: "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. Wrong, what your doing is making 6 ishtars the way to go, and still plexing all your accounts, and risking nothing, hell use Vni's. You be talkin a load o dat rubbish der. My VNIs are already on their way.
Ar3s1sis EVE-RO Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:59 - [242] - Quote More nerfs nothing new,in fact is ccp way of life but keeping this path you will lose the people that put food on your tables. Since you introduced the injectors you **** up this game hard,and you keep doing it.Good job,keep up the shity work. I can't recall when we had a good war in eve and will never come whit the changes you made,so people are are farming like crazy.And your solution to that is nerfing all ? You guys are pathetic, i don't care about you nerfs because i don't rat or mine but in the big pictures you are killing us slowly.And i can tell you in a very nice way go ** yourself whit this shity game you make for your own profit.I want back the game that was 5-6 years ago because that was fun,not this bullshit you change every month,again for your profit.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1380	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:36:12 - [243] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: "JUST BUFF NULLSEC" The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms. the Guide wrote: With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely. The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough! This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE. And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents). You do realize this nerf to carriers makes AFKTars more attractive. It isn't carriers that needed nerfing, it was just the "easiest" way due to laziness at CCP and not having the know how to "balance" income. Running highsec Incursions is a far higher income stream than a single carrier in nul - CCP won't touch those for fear of losing highsec bears. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Saftica Fasole Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:36:31 - [244] - Quote Now i have to sell my carriers and start ratting in wh or do incursions. Thx CCP.
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 130	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:36:58 - [245] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP. Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you: 1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers. 2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter 3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it. I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win. Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need. At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO. CCP you would do well to remember that. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Lenna Volkova Chemotherapy Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:37:11 - [246] - Quote Just spent months getting my carrier ratting thing going. Now you slow it down even more? What, people not buying enough Plex so you'll slowly nerf isk generation into the ground? Screw you. Unsubbing and melting down sp. Rip 2 ur subs idiots
Henry Plantgenet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 215	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:37:33 - [247] - Quote so....4 days before next patch you're ninja-ing these changes? Where was the CSM in all of this....
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:11 - [248] - Quote HuntedMaster wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Siobhan MacLeary wrote: "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. Wrong, what your doing is making 6 ishtars the way to go, and still plexing all your accounts, and risking nothing, hell use Vni's. You be talkin a load o dat rubbish der. Well then sites should be redesigned to actually need some interaction. Nerfing payouts overall would of course help the economy the most, but thats quite radical and I imagine people saying here "just reduce payouts overall" bitching like crazy when that change is implemented and saying something like "dont punish us for someone else using carriers".
Eric Podiene Dead's Prostitutes Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:14 - [249] - Quote Please god no When i first started playing I used to see carriers around and i knew they would really mess me up if i even got close to them and they were dangerous and scary. After the fighter changes around citadel they were still scary albeit much less scary and i saw them and said, "we could take that with the correct fleet". I don't want to end up seeing a nidhogger and say, " i can solo it in my vexor navy". I think caps are a very good endgame piece of equipment that allow older players who don't have the time but have the skills and ISK to be able to continually play and lose ships to us newer players and produce content. while there is a lot of money about i think that it encourages people to buy big ships then lose them gloriously. I think this shows in the number of supers killed with one or two dying on most days. i really think that there a better things to focus your(CCP's) time on and to not mess with things that aren't radically broken. There are still a lot of issues you haven't fixed and you chose to ignore those and instead focus on systems that aren't broken, i find this quite annoying as i find it harder to play this game everyday as it simply becomes harder and harder to do what i want. my fairly useless two cents
JetStream Drenard Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 99	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:37 - [250] - Quote I don't even have the words to describe my level of incredulity about CCP's latest "deductive reasoning" skills. Why must you always treat the symptoms of problems instead of the cause??? Why must you always drive loyal players and vets away from the game? Why can't you take negative feedback with a grain of salt and just fix the ***** problems instead of making new ones all the time? Carriers do not need a nerf, ratting does. fix the ***** problem.

WheelsUK Amok. Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:52 - [251] - Quote I think CCP's real problem is the only thing they can't nerf, the size of the Imperium and doing everything on a scale which has never been seen before. '2017 CCP' we want you to play our game, but not like that, or like that, maybe like this, oh no thats too much play now! Also CCP come up with a way to make us War each other that way we won't have time to PVE, (hint) take a wee gander at Citadels. God damn making me post on forums, 2 in one day wtf.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16060	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:39:04 - [252] - Quote Linda Bradford Raschke wrote: Lucian James wrote: http://i.imgur.com/1Zp87xk.png i just made this :D #CCPigs You forgot to label the AFK VNIs and Ishtars in the background. This cannot be said enough though. if ALL CCP does is nerf carriers and supers and rorqs people will just compensate with legions of VNIs and more barges and in some cases moving alts to high sec to run incursions (just like the last time CCP nuked anoms). If CCP wants to fix the problem there needs to be a comprehensive review of isk making, not these seemingly one off nerfs. As it stands people will just shift.
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 130	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:39:23 - [253] - Quote Henry Plantgenet wrote: so....4 days before next patch you're ninja-ing these changes? Where was the CSM in all of this.... Selling their carriers and rorquals, liquidating ore stocks and ripping out SP in their worker drone alts. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:41:07 - [254] - Quote Panther X wrote: Total Newbie wrote: Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP. Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you: 1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers. 2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter 3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it. I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win. Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need. At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO. CCP you would do well to remember that. The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance. I believe you will not end up not being able to buy PLEX. Hell you can buy PLEX after ONE evening of ratting. Even if you had to spend 2 or 3, its still f***** easy.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16060	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:41:44 - [255] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: "JUST BUFF NULLSEC" The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms. the Guide wrote: With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely. The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough! This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE. And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents). You do realize this nerf to carriers makes AFKTars more attractive. It isn't carriers that needed nerfing, it was just the "easiest" way due to laziness at CCP and not having the know how to "balance" income. Running highsec Incursions is a far higher income stream than a single carrier in nul - CCP won't touch those for fear of losing highsec bears. Did you not read my posts? I highlighted the part about the issue with VNIs and have been talking about that in other posts, as well as incursions.
Eodp Ellecon Air The Initiative. 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:41:45 - [256] - Quote Since CCP is nerfing Carriers and confirming their status a merely battleships...with the reduction in usefulness to fighter - CCPlease will of course reduce building components to correlate?
Tyorel Swayn Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:42:20 - [257] - Quote Many people bought injectors (indirectly giving you real money, CCP) just to get in carriers and start ratting. You're just spitting them in the face with this nerf. Anyway the problem won't affect big fishes. All you are doing now is ruining the game for mediocore and new players. Reconsider these changes!
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:42:39 - [258] - Quote Trevor2014 Gunson wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Yes, cause carrier and super carrier drones are the real problem here. Yes, cause HS Incursions aren't an isk sink whatsoever (coming from someone who ran them 8 hours a day) and Ratting in anoms for ONE MONTH because there's really no content anymore breaks the system. Yes, cause AKFtar's are "Working as Intended". Yes, cause AFK VNI's for low-skilled afkers are a thing. yes, cause CCP made it possible to become a super pilot in 5 minutes. Yes, cause SOV is apparently great as you have to sit in one place for 5 minutes with your D* out cause that's why you play a game? Yes, cause RISK Vs. REWARD isn't a thing anymore and I should fly a Hel that gets a 30M tick when i can fly a VNI or Isthar getting the same ticks and go to the store for some cookies and milk and make half the cost of my ship back on a Gamble chance no one enters my system? Yes, cause end-game isn't broken af now due to getting nerf hammers constantly. I think you need to re-evaluate what are "isk sinks" within the game. here's what you should fix: Fozzie SOV was the worst idea you ever came up with, it destroyed content generated. Get rid of it or get rid of your highly prized citadels. having both at the same time is not letting anyone take SOV just for the lol's. Small citadels get shorter rf time periods. big citadels get longer time periods. (kinda a duhh realization there) Make HS incursion rats harder to kill. (incorporate your new all-mighty NPC Player Mirror abilities or whatever you call it into HS Isk sinks, GET RID OF THE NO RISK FOR UNLIMITED REWARD BULLS* THAT IS HS INCURSIONS). Get rid of the Entosis BS.... wait, did I already mention that? Lower the Bounty payouts of rats everywhere in every region (that would surely drop the Isk Sink that apparently is in NS cause we can't do anything with no major wars going on) Make NPC rats tougher everywhere (and double their HP for HS incursions cause they are carebears and need to work for their isk just like everyone else) one last thing before i finish my rant and 2nd forum post ever cause i don't like doing this stuff Listen to your community and ACTUALLY read these forum posts, it's literally the same things over and over and over.... DO something about it. Isn't that why we have CSM's or whatever they are called, don't really know their names cause I hardly ever hear them doing anything for the community. Stop bringing in new items, and go back over the stuff already here and fix it, NOT NERF IT, upgrade it. delete this, delete that, then... then you can start working on new things. CSM is a big fat joke... just look at what they say and do...
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 117	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:43:00 - [259] - Quote Panther X wrote: Total Newbie wrote: Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP. Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you: 1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers. 2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter 3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it. I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win. Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need. At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO. CCP you would do well to remember that. You know it's the end game when NC and Grrr Gons agree. WTB real, meaningful conflict in all the things.
Xuan Menzoberanza Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:43:09 - [260] - Quote Your Nerf will work both for PVE and PVP ... So maybe instead of making carriers bigger poo in pvp then they already are, use your own idea from other ship The Pacifier Covert Ops Frigate +10% Security Status gains from destruction of non-capsuleer pirates while flying this ship Armor Repairer and Shield Booster effectiveness increased by a percentage equal to 10x pilot security status, with a floor of 0% and ceiling of 50% Carrier - Super Could have stuff like Pirates pose no threat to you, your Bounty payout is reduced by 5%/10%/20%/30% ???!@?@?@? Atleast until we or you find better solution ...

Kalioria U.K.R.A.I.N.E SOLAR FLEET 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:43:21 - [261] - Quote I was farming anomalies with 2 BS that made 40 mil\tick. Not afk, constant switching between windows to assign correct targets, watching for neutrals in system, etc. That is not much fun. I was thinking about carrier, even after previous nerf it seemed like a good way to stick to one account farming. Carrier without much skills have ~3.2k dps (common attack + rockets). 2 BS with my skills have 2.2k dps, each is 5 times cheaper than carrier. After simple math, 3.2k -30% = 2.1k dps on easy target with agility of a mountain. On the other hand I can have 4 gilas on each of my account and just stay afk just watching local for neutrals. So what's the point of having carrier now? PVP? It's not so useful unless you want to spend few days jumping to your enemy to get over-blobbed by bunch of supers, that used to be ratting cans. From my point of view economics is killed by skill injectors. So isks are made out of nowhere. The second point that kills eve is that CCP increases gap between rick people and all other. As those who play less, they set long term goals - for example learn and buy carrier to become a bit more effective in farming. But when this goal is achieved - it start to smell like a dead dog, because of new nerf. At the same time people who had a lot of money before, can buy injectors and switch to new more profitable way of farming much faster. One more funny thing, just imagine how farming will look like in 1-2 years when new Blood Rider AI is introduced to other PVE areas. Probably we would need to form fleets to complete a Horde or Heaven, spending 30 minutes to share 30mil, just because spending more time with less income is so much fun. Anyway no-one from dev side reads and cares about community comments. Accepting isk donations for ammo.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 41	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:03 - [262] - Quote Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp.
Erie TehGM Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:13 - [263] - Quote Tyorel Swayn wrote: Many people bought injectors (indirectly giving you real money, CCP) just to get in carriers and start ratting. You're just spitting them in the face with this nerf. Anyway the problem won't affect big fishes. All you are doing now is ruining the game for mediocore and new players. Reconsider these changes! All their "balance" patches are like that. Big fishes are never trully affected, line members get screwed over.
elise densi Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 76	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:26 - [264] - Quote skill extractor sale when ?
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16060	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:38 - [265] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance. +1 This is the thing that people miss. Just like how nerfing rorqs makes the price rebound which means that while you are making less isk, the isk you make is worth more. These nerfs actually mean better income for ratters. The escalation nerf means deadspace loot will be worth more, and this carrier nerf means even less escalations and less isk stuff into the economy which eventually might mean lower plex prices = easier to plex with less time ratting. People can be so self centered they don't know when they are being helped.
August - Breeze SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:45:46 - [266] - Quote I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income!
Xuan Menzoberanza Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:46:55 - [267] - Quote Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super?? Are you mad or something ?
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:48:00 - [268] - Quote August - Breeze wrote: I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... which will be cheaper if there is less ISK made by ratting overall.
Erie TehGM Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:49:46 - [269] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: August - Breeze wrote: I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... But only one account to keep subbed.
Lunarstorm95 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas. Alliance 49	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:25 - [270] - Quote Can you guys just come out and say ur goal is force old players to start having to buy plexs since the whole f2p thing didn't work out yet? GÇ£You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.GÇ¥ GÇò Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." GÇò Confucius-á

Selleka Virpio Zap Blap Mining Co. Demonic Wheat Pineapple 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:26 - [271] - Quote CCP can we please just stop focusing on what Goons is doing and look at the rest of the community? Thanks that would be great.
Slivo Beehive Surveillance X877. 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:48 - [272] - Quote What the ******* hell is this .. EveHQ Development Team Follow us on EveHQ.co \| Twitter \| Facebook
Kenneth Fritz DND Industries FUBAR. 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:55 - [273] - Quote I honestly can't fathom the thought process that brought this change about. First the Rorq gets it, now carriers. I don't understand this over the top reduction in playability for the end game stuff. At this stage you may as well get rid of capitals all together. It is pointless to own something that will now be able to be out DPS'd by a T2/T3 cruiser and battleships. Especially for those of us that are armor we can't up our dps without sacrificing tank. This is getting ridiculous. Serious question: Are you guys coming up with this crap and then taking bets on how many you can get to rage quit the game permanently? You want to limit the amount of ore that can be minded fine; limit the amount that can be mined with the timers. You want ratting to be less profitable; fine change the bounty amounts, or in crease rat EHP or both. Stop taking the easy and overall lazy way out to "fix" the game. Who's your end of the world buddy?
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:55 - [274] - Quote Erie TehGM wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: August - Breeze wrote: I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... But only one account to keep subbed. Not when hes cancelling the ratting one ;)
Burberry Muffin University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:52:18 - [275] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. So a 50-60tick is too much for that micromanagement and risk? 5 heavens in a row and its aids.... PLS CCP r u guys play this game? So carries r OP in PVP "ROFL", imagine that u fly a 4bil fitted carrier with fighters and one green deimos for about 750Mil can easily tank your **** dps output and this is real now before nerf. It is a fck.... carrier "he must kill subcapitals easy and quick" I didnt talk about supers now... too much rage for that skill queve fails and other issues with that game. Why iam ***** pay that 4accounts. ffs... tha last one who leave pls turn off the light 404 error sarcasm not found
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16062	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:52:33 - [276] - Quote I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing.
Sapphire Voice Higher Than Everest The-Culture 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:53:04 - [277] - Quote Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. You got payed by CCP or what?))))
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:53:05 - [278] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: August - Breeze wrote: I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... It is actually from 150m to 90m with alot more risk to fighter losses wich bring that down even more. Not too mention... the biggest problem in eve is actually there are NO more isk burners... like wars ... because .... CITADELS !
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:53:10 - [279] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance. +1 This is the thing that people miss. Just like how nerfing rorqs makes the price rebound which means that while you are making less isk, the isk you make is worth more. These nerfs actually mean better income for ratters. The escalation nerf means deadspace loot will be worth more, and this carrier nerf means even less escalations and less isk stuff into the economy which eventually might mean lower plex prices = easier to plex with less time ratting. People can be so self centered they don't know when they are being helped. thats how it would work in an ideal economy not in eve though firstly less minerals means higher mineral costs this doesnt affect people who already stockpiled a lot of assets it only affects those who wont be able to break into those markets after the changes more money in rich players hands who are the same players stockpiling plex secondly less isk means value of isk increases means the rich players can buy more with their wealth plex prices decrease who buys the plex yes the same rich players who stockpile the plex the price of plex stays the same because any decrease in price will immediately be negated by those who see the drop in price and add more plex to their stockpile thirdly you have to remember we now have a plex sink in the nes store to further reinforce the price of plex on the market so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:55:25 - [280] - Quote The most disappointing thing which has happened in the last few weeks isn't even the dizzying round of nerfs which are hitting the game as band aids. It's the complete lack of consideration that CCP shows to their paying customers in the way they choose to apply their band aids and these customers are actually far more than that. They have been a loyal and creative community and deserve more than huge game changes being packaged under the blanket comment 'for the better health of the game' with little notice, little actual description and assessment of the issues. When all the skill queue stopped working, we should have heard it from CCP. The community could survive all kinds of balance passes, all kinds of nerfs when players feel involved in the process and there is a good depth of explanation and use of statistics to support them We are all playing the game that YOU make, with all the mechanics that YOU introduced. CCP please treat your player base with respect otherwise I suspect that no amount of band aids will recover 'the health of eve'.

Doomchinchilla Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 186	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:56:25 - [281] - Quote Woa I didn't realize I was playing a PVE game. These balance changes are clearly a good idea for engaging content such as ratting.
Gwinet Deus-Ex-Machina Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:57:29 - [282] - Quote Lucian James wrote: From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs I absolutely agree!
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:57:43 - [283] - Quote Krypleria wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: August - Breeze wrote: I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... It is actually from 150m to 90m with alot more risk to fighter losses wich bring that down even more. Not too mention... the biggest problem in eve is actually there are NO more isk burners... like wars ... because .... CITADELS ! Is ISK really burned when you lose ships / citadels? Think about it. You are paying for the things to someone else. He has the money now. You lose the ship/citadel, he still has the ISK you gave him. You generate more ISK via ratting, he mines more ore and makes more ships. You give him the generated ISK, he gives you ship. So what is burned here actually is ORE, not ISK. ISK is burned via insurances that expire, LP stores, NPC repairs and market taxes. The good ISK sink would be simply more transactions. So yea, wars do it too, but its not so direct and doesnt neccesarily have the effect.
nikander100 Blackburn Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Circle-Of-Two 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:57:50 - [284] - Quote How about a new riot, ugh ugh. burn jita?
Lhord GankBang Black Omega Security Mercenary Coalition 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:58:18 - [285] - Quote Hi CCPs, that suck at game balance and should be fired. Do you play the game at all?
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:58:40 - [286] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16063	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:58:50 - [287] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk All of these are good things. When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol. CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh" It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much. As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat.
ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 123	Posted - 2017.06.09 12:59:09 - [288] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting. Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people. You can go kill them right? or get rid of your vast rental empire!!!
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16063	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:00:28 - [289] - Quote Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that. This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem.
August - Breeze SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:00:49 - [290] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Erie TehGM wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: August - Breeze wrote: I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... But only one account to keep subbed. Not when hes cancelling the ratting one ;) Can you not read??? I specifically stated I have NEVER ratted in my carrier.

Varg Wardruna KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:01:37 - [291] - Quote Okay so mining becomes **, Carrier ratting becomes , the good BS's become too expensive..wtf should i do with my time? Station trading? running Missions in Highsec for close to no income? You are giving your Customers a Tool to boost up their Characters as fast as they want by paying more $ and than you punish them for actually paying those extra $ into your Wallet? But yeah, drop more Nerfs instead of caring about those Turds who post in Public that they made x Trillion ISK by exploiting the Game. this **. +1unsub
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4002	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:01:37 - [292] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec. Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month. Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned. This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers.
LEEL000 Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:01:50 - [293] - Quote CCP u are doing harakiri, u know that right ?
Linda Bradford Raschke LBR Group 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:08 - [294] - Quote So in an effort to curb capital dominance in pvp and pve, you've essentially made battleships do more effective dps to anything smaller than a carrier. Dreads do FAR more dps than a carrier and cost about the same. Dreads can compete with supers for dps at a massively lower risk level, which also makes them a much less desirable target, further discouraging fights because people are far less likely to form up for a 3b dread kill than a 30b super kill. So what role do you want the carrier to play, exactly, CCP? Because at this point, I can't think of anything the carrier does better than a cheaper ship, other than buffer tank. But buffer tank is useless when your damage output is so easily reduced to zero. I'd also like to know what mountain of logic came to the conclusion that carriers, which cannot be effectively multiboxed and make 200m/hour, are somehow inflating the economy, as opposed to something like a vni or ishtar which can make 54m/hour with very little input, making them easily scale. 4 accounts and you've outpaced a carrier pilot with less risk and less effort. Carrier pilots can't scale. Literally it cannot be done by a human. There used to be a time when this game was balanced around risk/reward, effort, and skill. Now it seems to be balanced around a magic 8 ball. I was considering re-subbing my 5 accounts after a 6 month break which was directly caused by a lack of available content. But it's pretty clear that you're doing nothing to create new content, and you are continuing to push knee-jerk reaction patches that only push the problem around or mask it, instead of attacking the problem at its source (which is largely a lack of content). So I guess I'll be back in another 6 months to see if you managed to get your act together, or a competitor took your place and filled the gaping hole you've left in this niche market.
ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 123	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:42 - [295] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! ! You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue. You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis! You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell. You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content. And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting????????? The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME! Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play. dont you have multiple CSM reps thats supposed to talk for you? oh rite no they dont.
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 130	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:43 - [296] - Quote another way to reduce the Isk ingame is to get rid of insurance. No payout on ship death, plus a premium paid to CONCORD for cleaning up your "accident scene" in a percentage of your wallet by ship class. Frig and dessie? Oh lets say 1/2 % wallet. Capitals, lets arbitrarily say 5% of your WALLET. Tax the 1%'ers. Implement a yearly income tax system that cannot be avoided. You do not pay your yearly income tax? Your wallet is seized. Your assets are seized. All tied to your api, so the "Forensic Accountants at CONCORD" will follow the money. Think you can evade the tax man? IP ban. Do something to the isk scammers and market PVPers that have zero risk, sitting in Jita all day, manipulating markets, making uncounted billions with zero risk. Give the working man a break. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 1143	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:56 - [297] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. To be fair, changes affect more than just ratting. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Burberry Muffin University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:03:05 - [298] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Great changes With all honesty man ur brainless douchebag....
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:03:36 - [299] - Quote Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. Its not the impact to PVE that concerns me, but the reality that this is actually a PVP nerf. They will once again give people a reason to not use carriers for pvp. They are already the most useless cap type for PVP as it is, and now its gonna be worse.
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:04:11 - [300] - Quote Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. He is reffering to overall economics, not exactly carrier damage nerf. While I disagree with Carrier PVP nerf, carrier PVE nerf alone is really needed, as is all ratting in fact. And Incursions. ISK is generated too quickly and too easily, causes inflation and in the end, the same ISK made now has lower purchasing power than couple of years back.

Tom Marksson Zima Corp Infinity Space. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:06:23 - [301] - Quote This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule: Quote: Risk = ISK I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to have a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to have a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs. Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"? Per aspera ad astra.
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:06:54 - [302] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Krypleria wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: August - Breeze wrote: I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier) I encourage everyone to do the same thing! CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... It is actually from 150m to 90m with alot more risk to fighter losses wich bring that down even more. Not too mention... the biggest problem in eve is actually there are NO more isk burners... like wars ... because .... CITADELS ! Is ISK really burned when you lose ships / citadels? Think about it. You are paying for the things to someone else. He has the money now. You lose the ship/citadel, he still has the ISK you gave him. You generate more ISK via ratting, he mines more ore and makes more ships. You give him the generated ISK, he gives you ship. So what is burned here actually is ORE, not ISK. ISK is burned via insurances that expire, LP stores, NPC repairs and market taxes. The good ISK sink would be simply more transactions. So yea, wars do it too, but its not so direct and doesnt neccesarily have the effect. ORE is not ISK making per se... it becomes ISK when someone that RATTED or made missions or incursions pays for the ORE in either hull or modules. Losing a ship = a part of the total amount of ISK payed for it is lost even with ofc .. SRP ... Please think about it.... So ... Step 1. Make nullsec "Not safe" again Step 2. Create situation in wich Alliances have incentives to go to war for territory/resources Step 3: Advertise that content instead of : Step 1: Nerf isk makers Step 2: Lose overall players because of lack of content Step 3: Advertise PLEX Step 4: Lose more overall players because PLEX and lack of content because less players.
Santinav Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:07:24 - [303] - Quote Lucian James wrote: Total Newbie wrote: Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! ! You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue. You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis! You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell. You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content. And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting????????? The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME! Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play. #CCPigs #CCPigs
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:07:25 - [304] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk All of these are good things. When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol. CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh" It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much. As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat. im not sure why they are good things all it does is increase the time it takes people to plex it doesnt cause the price of plex to drop ccp want to keep rich players rich because they know they will hoard plex i mean in the long term sure maybe eventually the economy could reach a certain equilibrium but not in any meaningful timeframe
Slivo Beehive Surveillance X877. 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:08:03 - [305] - Quote Any test on wormhole impact with those changes ? Or is your changes only based of nullsec players ? EveHQ Development Team Follow us on EveHQ.co \| Twitter \| Facebook
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:08:38 - [306] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that. This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem. CCP have the games best interests at heart, Im sure. It's their business. That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused. I'm not convinced that the damage done by fighters is the actual cause of the problem, when infact only 3 of the 6 null sec ratting anoms are even considered worth ratting. Also, I ponder how the MER would have looked if even the newest players in EvE couldn't just splash some cash on their favourite game and inject into the 'top tier' isk making. That fact makes me feel like the player base deserve a little more respect than they are being shown with the latest fixes, which feel like they still fail to address the actual problems at a base level.
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:08:46 - [307] - Quote Tom Marksson wrote: This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule: Quote: Risk = ISK I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to have a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to have a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs. Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"? No you cant simply make more money with bigger ships indefinitely. It would ruin the game economy if more people did it and prices of everything would skyrocket, making people who dont use your method of ISK generating effectively poor and not being able to afford anything, for example PLEX.
Burberry Muffin University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:09:21 - [308] - Quote Gwinet wrote: Lucian James wrote: From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs I absolutely agree! AGREE
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:09:38 - [309] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec. Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month. Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned. This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers. sure thats what im saying but to somehow translate that into a decrease in plex prices is erroneous imo
Heleana Commodus Luyseyal Old Town Blades of Grass 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:11:55 - [310] - Quote Ok, lets all stop ratting in any other ship than VNI, why you may ask? Because VNI/Ishtar gives you 20 mills ticks and you dont even need to lock targets, warp to a site drop drones and that is that, you dont need to even lock targets if your drones are set to agressive. Be back in 30-40 mins when your haven is done. Have 10x VNI accounts and thats it, and farm inflation till end of days. CCP Logic - you DONT NEED TO DO NOTHING to get ISK because you employ high school kids that code for you, and that is not an issue. On the other hand you have drug adicts which are going trough statistical data and they gave us this perfect solution. Nerf a ship class which is already not that great at all in PvP, main reason why that class of ships even exist, because that ship can rat well, yeah it can rat good, but at a price, you can only use 1 carrier to do so, with a great micro managment from a player/APM. So it gives a good amount of isk for really big effort. AFK VNI/Ishtars army, where you DONT NEED TO DO NOTHING for nice isk.With 0 effort, 0 skill points, 0 investment, everybody can have their personal VNI army, 5 VNI's / Ishtars basically pull same numbers as a carrier / super isk/h wise, but for 0 effort.Didnt come to your mind that this is actual problem, not carriers? Simply introduce same mechanic which other ship have and VNI/Ishtars dont.They dont even need to LOCK THEIR TARGETS to be able to get ISK from them.

Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 131	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:12:05 - [311] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways. People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that. This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem. If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth. Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:12:23 - [312] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec. Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month. Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned. This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers. sure thats what im saying but to somehow translate that into a decrease in plex prices is erroneous imo In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically. Still, I am not agreeing with Fighter damage nerf, PVP should not be nerfed at all! Rats should be harder to kill with fighters and anoms should not be AFK doable.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:14:01 - [313] - Quote Burberry Muffin wrote: Gwinet wrote: Lucian James wrote: From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs I absolutely agree! AGREE The motion has been approved and seconded. ALL in favor say Aye
Orion Kerensky Pure Avarice. Pandemic Legion 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:14:01 - [314] - Quote CCP needs to do a better job at cloaking nerfs directed towards how players make isk. We don't want them to look too greedy as they move towards PTW
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:15:52 - [315] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically. well its not as simple as you make it sound when you have people investing in assets then the value of those assets increases as a result of ccp meddling with mineral values nerfing mining and then nerfing ratting income those people with large stockpiles of assetts only see their wealth increase for no reason other than ccp messing with things and those people will continue to stockpile plex intil demand for plex decreases and im sure you can figure out what a decrease in demand for plex means
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:17:24 - [316] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk All of these are good things. When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol. CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh" It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much. As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat. You are still taking too small of a picture to make a valid argument. What about the people in Jita making bank scamming idiots? Why should they continue to rack up huge wallets with ZERO risk? Why should a small percentage alone be forced to surrender their income streams? There needs to be bigger sweeping changes in the game to keep it viable. CCP arbitrarily going after small groups of specific income streams doesn't solve anything. We will always find a way to min/max each meta they come up with, except for a game wide mechanic that affects EVERYONE regardless of income method. The wealth hoarders will have to pay more of course, but that's the cost of doing business. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Azn Assassin Dissidence Dawn The-Culture 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:17:42 - [317] - Quote Is this a damn joke? CCP we are past April so you can drop the April fool's routine. How about you save everyone trouble and just delete carriers and super carriers from the game. You do this CCP you'll be -1 active subscription here I'll take my second account down. Think carefully before you do this, you will lose subscriptions over taking a cheap way out on a design decision.
Abagah Khan Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:18:23 - [318] - Quote Quote: If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth. Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams. this is something ive noticed myself lately. Outside of skins, there is nothing to sink isk into. So i put it in anotehr ship.. or in this case the market, making even more isk that i have nothing to spend it on..
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:18:55 - [319] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically. well its not as simple as you make it sound when you have people investing in assets then the value of those assets increases as a result of ccp meddling with mineral values nerfing mining and then nerfing ratting income those people with large stockpiles of assetts only see their wealth increase for no reason other than ccp messing with things and those people will continue to stockpile plex intil demand for plex decreases and im sure you can figure out what a decrease in demand for plex means Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good.
Dalron Infinite Holdings Ltd 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:19:06 - [320] - Quote Instead of nerfing carriers add some proper PVE content, add capital escalations the hubs/sanctums etc with scrambling battleships to hold the carriers in place so that content can be generated, people can still use carriers, and get great rewards but at much higher risk balancing things out.

Mierin Arthie Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 20	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:19:10 - [321] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Why not just reduce bounty payouts? Isnt that the problem? Please CCP, you should have at least 2 functioning braincells available at the office. Rub them togeather and you should be able to come up with something better than this. It would also go a long way in preventing errors like last nights skill pause script.
Kendarr Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 64	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:19:26 - [322] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends. Your not my friend! MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'( Zebra-Corp
Nick Samerr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:01 - [323] - Quote good change :)
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16063	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:47 - [324] - Quote Sassura wrote: [That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused. I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it. My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?". They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there. CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived. CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen.
Xantopeuss Balcan United Elite Brothers in Arms Alliance 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:48 - [325] - Quote Ok here is my opinion.... First, You guys in CCP don't know anymore what are You doing. Second, the real problem for You is not to many isk (bounty), mining, production in eve, You just work against Delve region and possible CFC in general. Ok You will nerf fighters, rorqs etc. but You will do that to whole EVE Universe and again Delve will be No1. Why? In that one region 30000 people lives!!!! And how much people left in all others regions? 50000? I'm not takling about alts. Whit this latest updates You will only lost people... We like to play EvE but it seems that You worh very hard to make us stop... Maybe thats the real goal? You have some better game with better income so its lime for EVE to dye? Mah....
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:58 - [326] - Quote As always wh people will be happy and the others not Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:23:39 - [327] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:11 - [328] - Quote I would really like to know, if all these people saying "I am unsubing", "I am canceling my accounts" really go and do it, or just try to take CCP hostage
Jonas Skypilot Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:46 - [329] - Quote Lucian James wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: ...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs #CCPigs
iFars Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:54 - [330] - Quote If you notice that a member of your company has started to collect money for a car or a house - does he begin to receive lower wages?

Thomasina Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:58 - [331] - Quote Kendarr wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends. Your not my friend! MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'( *You're How are you going to get iskies for your toonies now?
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16063	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:00 - [332] - Quote Mierin Arthie wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Why not just reduce bounty payouts? Isnt that the problem? Please CCP, you should have at least 2 functioning braincells available at the office. Rub them togeather and you should be able to come up with something better than this. It would also go a long way in preventing errors like last nights skill pause script. Telling people to rub braincells together while sayhing something dumb lol. This must be the internet. Why should they punish everyone when carrier/super ratters are the problem?
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 118	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:30 - [333] - Quote CCP: This "Logic" would almost be correct if Eve was a PVE game. The most effective way to subdue the Isk faucets is to make changes in the game that allow CONFLICT to occur. It's pretty hard to rat all day if you have enemies able to deploy into your space. But, since it takes hours on end to even get 2 or 3 regions away to go shoot your enemies, you can sit at home in your dead space pocket that no one can come to, let alone conquer and stare at he thousands of citadels that will remain in space for years to come, because no one wants to spend 6 days grinding them. Do you guys EVER stop and think, we keep making changes to the game, but people keep leaving anyway? Perhaps your "Changes" aren't really changes afterall? We are going to get rid of SBUs!!!!!!!!!! No one want's to grind Sov! We are going to create fatigue and have timers so no one can deploy to grind sov! We are going to make cool structures that take a week to kill, because........... no one wants to grind sov? We are going to force people into null sec to...................... rat and mine? We are going to nerf ratting and mining, because no one is leaving their region to go grind sov............. Yup, makes perfect sense to me.
Tom Marksson Zima Corp Infinity Space. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:54 - [334] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Tom Marksson wrote: This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule: Quote: Risk = ISK I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to have a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to have a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs. Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"? No you cant simply make more money with bigger ships indefinitely. It would ruin the game economy if more people did it and prices of everything would skyrocket, making people who dont use your method of ISK generating effectively poor and not being able to afford anything, for example PLEX. Actually, I can. And I explained, why, above. The majority of players (at least, in our coalition) still cannot afford to fly a capital ship, though I admit the amount of carrier pilots has increased since the summer 2016. You would be surprised, but when I wasn't a capital pilot, I could afford PLEX and some faction ships and CTA ships and mountains of skill injectors and everything. The difference between my current financial state and the previous one is that I am able to earn ISK without spending too much time as I did before. And the income is relatively stable. If I'll have to spend more time to get the money, there would be no time left for the real life. I noticed only one thing that ruined the PLEX prices - the last update which removed the Aurum and split the old PLEX, increasing its price for 200 mil ISK. Per aspera ad astra.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16063	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:57 - [335] - Quote Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: As always wh people will be happy and the others not Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people ! My Rattlesnake does 40.
Wayne Silk The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:26:03 - [336] - Quote CCP u know we : 1) Lose our RL time 2) Spend our RL money 3) We are paying your salary 4) We are real boss here If u continue this we will find a new job and close CCP. We have power to do that.
Carrion Crow Disposable Spies Honorable Third Party 32	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:27:08 - [337] - Quote This is just lazy game design and you should feel bad. This will discourage smaller groups dropping solo or small groups of carriers. Fix the real problem - PVE. CC
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:27:22 - [338] - Quote Abagah Khan wrote: Quote: If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth. Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams. this is something ive noticed myself lately. Outside of skins, there is nothing to sink isk into. So i put it in another ship.. or in this case the market, making even more isk that i have nothing to spend it on.. That's right. I have amassed a huge collection of ships in different parts of the galaxy, and still maintained my wealth portfolio. It is just too much of a PITA to move stuff around and reship to Jita and resell. Even still, with the small isk sink of alliance doctrines on deployment, I'm able to grow my wallet. Why? Because CCP allows it. The minuscule amount of tax I pay on transactions, the minuscule price I pay for shipping and travelling costs is almost a profit. Ridiculous or not, not up to me to decide. But when I get paid out by CCP for losing a ship, and get my alliance funded SRP, I make money when I lose ships in the long run. If one can account for EBITDA in a game where there is no real income tax. I'm not really sure that CCP knows what they are doing when it comes to money. But any retail regional manager or branch manager could tell you this. You don't need an economist to figure this out for you. If alliances corporations and individuals had to do their income tax at the end of the year, it wouldn't be fun, but it sure would make the playing field more level My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:27:38 - [339] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. And what will you do after I will have equipped all my ratter friends with Supers and all my miner friends with Rorqs, because THAT is exactly what I'm doing. Nerf them to useless? You cannot stop progress, you dullard! Maybe you need your salary nerfed, cause you're trying too hard!
Orcatorix Denizus Distortion. Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:18 - [340] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. I protest this change, CCP is interfering with the nullsec meta too much recently. Honestly, are you guys getting bankrupt or something? #CCpigs!

Radious Servasse Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 114	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:24 - [341] - Quote I think I might hate this change, but I do understand economics. The only real reason I rat these days is for plex and ships to blow up. When 90% of my time ratting is done just to get plex and 10% for ships, the game turns into a job. By reducing the amount carriers can make, there will be alot more effort required to grind a plex and such more players will leave the game. Over time, this new lack of demand will reduce plex prices to a more affordable level and those remainding will enjoy once again affordable plex prices. When the plex price finally falls, carrier ratting will once again be feasible. Real nice plan CCP. I hope it works. More isk means more expensive items and ships.
Heleana Commodus Luyseyal Old Town Blades of Grass 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:38 - [342] - Quote Carriers actually make you do something for your ISK, while Rorquals and VNI dont. CCP if you can make ISK by doing nothing that is your problem, prevent that option and problem is gone.
Karina Ivanovich Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 235	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:41 - [343] - Quote Absolutely unacceptable, this removes so many avenues of play outside of ratting. I have no idea what your balance team is thinking. Seriously concerned about the future of eve if this is the direction/method you are taking. Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Trevize Demerzel 95	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:29:22 - [344] - Quote "NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently" This is the real kicker..... -
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2904	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:29:36 - [345] - Quote Darine Artwik wrote: Guess what? Multiboxing SB Battleships? No Nerf! Multiboxing VNIs/Ishtars? No Nerf! Multiboxing Rorquals? Just +1 Soloing Carriers/Supers? Nerfed to death. Soloing Rorquals? Nerfed to death. CCP certainly NOT following a special agenda there. Multiboxing and therefore more sub money for CCP not favored at all. Another valid point that both this change and the Rorqual nerf do not address. Carrier ratting, while lucrative, requires the player to be at his computer actively playing the game. It does not scale well as you add more accounts (unlike Rorqual mining). CCP should be promoting active game play that encourages people to get out in space and do things. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Asian Driver Forgotten Artifacts Laboratories 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:30:28 - [346] - Quote Lightbringer wrote: Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell? Man...second comment is just a few minutes. Kinda salty today huh? It's clear that null alliances have more than enough money, so now making the same amount is going to be a little harder. Boo hoo...
Karina Ivanovich Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 235	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:31:36 - [347] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Darine Artwik wrote: Guess what? Multiboxing SB Battleships? No Nerf! Multiboxing VNIs/Ishtars? No Nerf! Multiboxing Rorquals? Just +1 Soloing Carriers/Supers? Nerfed to death. Soloing Rorquals? Nerfed to death. CCP certainly NOT following a special agenda there. Multiboxing and therefore more sub money for CCP not favored at all. Another valid point that both this change and the Rorqual nerf do not address. Carrier ratting, while lucrative, requires the player to be at his computer actively playing the game. It does not scale well as you add more accounts (unlike Rorqual mining). CCP should be promoting active game play that encourages people to get out in space and do things. ^^^^^^^^ Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 41	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:31:36 - [348] - Quote Xuan Menzoberanza wrote: Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super?? Are you mad or something ? Passive = Moon Income Mining/Rating in Carriers is AFK if you can multibox 5 rorquals/carriers
Karina Ivanovich Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 235	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:32:25 - [349] - Quote Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Xuan Menzoberanza wrote: Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super?? Are you mad or something ? Passive = Moon Income Mining/Rating in Carriers is AFK if you can multibox 5 rorquals/carriers You can't effectively multibox more than 2 carriers, even then it is a stretch. Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
ITTigerClawIK Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 484	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:32:59 - [350] - Quote Anna Wong wrote: What about citadels? The damage output especially from the medium citadels is low enough without a further reduction i am also concerned with further reductions to Citadel defences they are already rather underpowerd to defend themselves against any real attempt to take them out.

Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:33:37 - [351] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it Lets summarize it. The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX consts and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant. The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
Anthar Thebess 1705	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:34:00 - [352] - Quote Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Xuan Menzoberanza wrote: Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super?? Are you mad or something ? Passive = Moon Income Mining/Rating in Carriers is AFK if you can multibox 5 rorquals/carriers You cannot multibox carriers, don't even try with supers. Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Logan Jakal Blue Sun. DARKNESS. 27	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:34:28 - [353] - Quote Y'all at CCP just went from "probably ******" to "fully ******".
Scath Bererund SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore 62	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:34:38 - [354] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, You are not a friend to anyone who lives in nulsec
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16063	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:35:11 - [355] - Quote Radious Servasse wrote: I think I might hate this change, but I do understand economics. The only real reason I rat these days is for plex and ships to blow up. When 90% of my time ratting is done just to get plex and 10% for ships, the game turns into a job. By reducing the amount carriers can make, there will be alot more effort required to grind a plex and such more players will leave the game. Over time, this new lack of demand will reduce plex prices to a more affordable level and those remainding will enjoy once again affordable plex prices. When the plex price finally falls, carrier ratting will once again be feasible. Real nice plan CCP. I hope it works. More isk means more expensive items and ships. it doesn't work that way, and what you describe is actually the thing that bothers most people but shouldn't/ They think that their income is going down but everything else will cost the same. but it won't, the reason we got here is because soooo many people could make soooo much isk that prices went up and up. They buffed the escalation rat which made DED loot from 8/10s and 10/10s plummet in price, meaning that you had to do more escalations to make the same isk you used to and people who just sold the escalaitons made less. Now escalations will be worth more. Deadspace loot with eventually be worth more. Pirate BS blueprints will eventually be worth more. The loot you get from Faction spawns in havens and sanctums will eventually be worth more. The actual isk in you wallet will be worth more. CCp screwed up with income, and it should not have had to come to this, BUT there are good things that will eventually come from this specific change and the changes coming to escalations and pirate BS build costs. It's actually a very good time to be a null sec ratter.
Lhord GankBang Black Omega Security Mercenary Coalition 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:35:39 - [356] - Quote What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms? Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar.
Kendarr Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 65	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:40 - [357] - Quote Thomasina wrote: Kendarr wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends. Your not my friend! MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'( *You're How are you going to get iskies for your toonies now? Rob the corp wallets. Remember this was CCP's fault not mine. Zebra-Corp
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:51 - [358] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it Lets summarize it. The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX costs and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant. The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team. True... but guess what... these changes dont affect ISK sinks in any way .... so maybe they should put those economists to actually PLAY the game to understand it ?
Logan Jakal Blue Sun. DARKNESS. 27	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:53 - [359] - Quote Spoilers of the latest CCP meeting http://i.imgur.com/pAbUhwA.jpg
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:59 - [360] - Quote Lhord GankBang wrote: What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms? Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar. Imagine the rage IMO it should just be less effective, but nerf should only affect fighters vs rats, not PVP aspect.

Count Basie Thellere The Pantheon. Cohortes Triarii 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:38:18 - [361] - Quote Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game.
Kid Herojuana Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:38:23 - [362] - Quote Thank you for nerfing the active gameplay of fighters yet again. <3 I was already getting bored with actually having to look at the screen. Now AFK VNI the king of null sec ratting again! Trainee: Guys, I have an idea. Lets make engaging content for players not to AFK orbit rocks 23/7. CCP 1: You're fired. CCP 2: Finally that guy is gone. You know guys, I love the VNI hull. Lets redesign it, slap on few nice skins on it and delete all that the pesky trainee added. CCP 1: Would you like to become a partner?
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:38:36 - [363] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. youre forgetting one important factor remember why we said demand decreases in the first place in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:39:56 - [364] - Quote Krypleria wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it Lets summarize it. The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX costs and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant. The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team. True... but guess what... these changes dont affect ISK sinks in any way .... so maybe they should put those econimists to actually PLAY the game to understand it ? 'Well they decrase the ISK faucet. That is the second way to deal with the problem. While this change is strange to me and it SHOULD NOT affect PVP IMO, the ratting overall needs a nerf. Or they should just increase the transaction tax even more I guess to buff the ISK sink.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16067	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:39:56 - [365] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team. Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex. In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless. A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY). Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time.
Hengle Teron We Shoot Things. Sometimes 62860	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:41:13 - [366] - Quote So if isk faucet vs sink is too high, why not return isk sink to markets? Adding like a 1% npc broker fee on citadels would help somewhat restore the isk sink of markets, while still keeping citadel as the more desirable option compared to stations.
iFars Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:41:16 - [367] - Quote The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office.
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:41:40 - [368] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. youre forgetting one important factor remember why we said demand decreases in the first place in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it The demand is constant, I dont see legions of players leaving the game anytime soon.
James Kestrel Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:42:25 - [369] - Quote Do you really think this change will raise sales of Plex? This changes will not fix economy, it will only raise gap between rich and poor players, like always. Did you consider full server wipe? Maybe it will help. You should nerf all that smartbombers and afk VNI/Ishtar ratters... they are big issue, not carriers or supers. vid maker \| swagmaster \| "Don't be yolo and fly solo!"
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:42:47 - [370] - Quote iFars wrote: The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office. Actually they dont live better. They live worse in fact. Having more ISK is nice, but the VALUE of ISK is going down. YOur purchasing power is going down. And people not ratting in carriers or supers would gradually get poorer and poorer, because their ISK will have lesser value.

JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:42:50 - [371] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. youre forgetting one important factor remember why we said demand decreases in the first place in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it The demand is constant, I dont see legions of players leaving the game anytime soon. well that remains to be seen
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2905	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:20 - [372] - Quote Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. Carriers are neither AFK nor passive income. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:37 - [373] - Quote Lhord GankBang wrote: What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms? Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar. Yep, I spoke to that very idea earlier. I ask the dreaded coding/programming question...."How hard could it be?" Can someone hand me an umbrella for the shitstorm about to hit me? My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:50 - [374] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: As always wh people will be happy and the others not Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people ! My Rattlesnake does 40 and can MJD out of trouble. This is still ridiculous compare to the sp, isk, risk you invest compare to a carrier/super ratting !
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16067	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:53 - [375] - Quote Count Basie Thellere wrote: Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol.
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:44:20 - [376] - Quote James Kestrel wrote: Do you really think this change will raise sales of Plex? This changes will not fix economy, it will only raise gap between rich and poor players, like always. Did you consider full server wipe? Maybe it will help. You should nerf all that smartbombers and afk VNI/Ishtar ratters... they are big issue, not carriers or supers. Full server wipe. I WOULD SOOO LOVE THAT !! But its a dream that cant come true I guess :/
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16067	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:44:40 - [377] - Quote Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: As always wh people will be happy and the others not Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people ! My Rattlesnake does 40 and can MJD out of trouble. This is still ridiculous compare to the sp, isk, risk you invest compare to a carrier/super ratting ! Which is why it was dumb to rely on a carrier...
Geanos The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:45:33 - [378] - Quote The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at what, 15 minutes? So if you add a formula like this for carrier/super ratting - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future. I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with ta on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK".
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:45:48 - [379] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. What a horrible, horrible idea--terrible. Why, it's just dumb. There are many, many ways to go around this nerf and make just as much as before, but to hit carriers like this is just a trash idea. DUMB.
Weeman Utama Pure Avarice. Pandemic Legion 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:46:50 - [380] - Quote Nerfing the ship because of PvE instead of making smart changes to the PvE itself? Pretty typical of the bumbling CCP of late. Also a 30% nerf to something "a bit too effective in PvP now" seems excessive Probably not the best idea to announce this on the same day as you randomly pause the training of most of eve. But thanks for the four days notice.

Armark Bether NRDS Anonyme PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:04 - [381] - Quote Heh, I understand why these changes are necessary... But still, REEEEEEEEEEEE~
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3379	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:39 - [382] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team. Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex. In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless. A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY). Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time. If they want to stop the gravy train, they can also remove the auto drone aggro vs rats so nobody can run multiple anoms at the same time. Those also generate extra escalations devaluing them.
Azn Assassin Dissidence Dawn The-Culture 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:45 - [383] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/zc4ORN9.jpg
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:45 - [384] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Count Basie Thellere wrote: Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
alex tow Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:48:06 - [385] - Quote Total Newbie wrote: alex tow wrote: Total Newbie wrote: alex tow wrote: It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right? Of course it does....why do you think I would forget this ? I hate the plex price which encourage to buy some to get isk, I hate skill extractors and injectors and I HATE the capital ship becoming standard ships. You obviously dont fly one. If/when you do, don't expect to use it for it's main purpose (Battle), because the Aids/Time required to get to a fight isn't worth it. You can hop into your trusty Interceptor and play Frigates online with the rest of the folks sigh.....I won't even try to talk about that since you won't listen so yes you are right, now please go back whining without trying to understand what people talk about.
Logan Jakal Blue Sun. DARKNESS. 27	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:48:35 - [386] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: iFars wrote: The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office. Actually they dont live better. They live worse in fact. Having more ISK is nice, but the VALUE of ISK is going down. Your purchasing power is going down. And people not ratting in carriers or supers would gradually get poorer and poorer, because their ISK will have lesser value if everyone has a lot of it. #MakeNewEdenGreatAgain
HellGate fr 54	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:48:36 - [387] - Quote Real men farm with dreads.
Burberry Muffin University of Caille Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:49:13 - [388] - Quote James Kestrel wrote: Do you really think this change will raise sales of Plex? This changes will not fix economy, it will only raise gap between rich and poor players, like always. Did you consider full server wipe? Maybe it will help. You should nerf all that smartbombers and afk VNI/Ishtar ratters... they are big issue, not carriers or supers. We all must nerf CCP they r highly active these days with stupidity..... iam sry for my offensive language but too much **** for small amount of time (u know this pirate ships before AtT start, carrier ratting and PVP, rorq mining, citadels, nos Pos soon....) The more ISKs players have the more content for PVP and other players but less real money for CCP. 404 error sarcasm not found
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2905	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:49:27 - [389] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sassura wrote: [That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused. I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it. My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?". They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there. CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived. CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen. I cannot wait to see the outcry when the T3 changes finally come through. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 837	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:49:57 - [390] - Quote Good, its about time. Carriers were oppressive in pvp (particularly in solo/small gang) and made roaming in anything larger than a dessie a hassle. Their rediculous application and damage to subcaps was basically the same thing as the sentry carriers of old, but worse. Since they had significantly higher alpha. Battleships have been capital fodder since the cap rebalance and were losing their place in the game (unless you talk about nightmare, mach, rattle, but 3 pirate BS does not mean battleships as a whole are ok). The damage reductions wont make it as easy as it used to be to roam in BS but it might be possible to tank a carrier in a marauder now. Still a step in the right direction. Now, if CCP could make it to where a battleship could lock things faster than a carrier, thatd be great (looks at almost all caldari battleships with their pitiful 97-118 sig resolution). Either buff sig res on battleships or nerf FSA lock time salts the wound Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS Make the Muninn great again!

Starkiller Kashuken Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:52:09 - [391] - Quote Wow ccp has zero clue about there own game lets take 2 k dps away from a super whos fighters cant brake ***** 4 t2 logi just just take supers and carrier out of this game at this point cause there ***** useless anyway seeing as they cant defend them self's after this patch way to go ccp good job knowing anything
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16069	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:52:47 - [392] - Quote Panther X wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Count Basie Thellere wrote: Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this.
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:16 - [393] - Quote Geanos wrote: The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at 15 minutes, right? So if you add a formula for carrier/super ratting like this - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future. I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with a tax on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK". You're right, server load would be negligible, as they do it right now in hisec anyway. The autotax on NPC corps...that goes to CCP does it not? I make my own corp and set corp tax at %5, that comes automatically with each tick. Add a CONCORD tax to bounties, and a year end income tax payable by personal, corporate and alliance income taxes. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:40 - [394] - Quote Who hasn't experienced the sheer joy and glee of catching a carrier ratting an anom too? Whose going to want to take that risk vs reward gamble now? Just such a novice, unthoughtful move.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16069	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:52 - [395] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Sassura wrote: [That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused. I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it. My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?". They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there. CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived. CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen. I cannot wait to see the outcry when the T3 changes finally come through. Not enough popcorn in the world for that one.
ArmyOfMe Hull Breach. 635	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:54:03 - [396] - Quote All those goon tears, all worth it GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
michaeltward Digital Chess Session Moral Ambiguity 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:55:20 - [397] - Quote Carriers are already kind of suck in pvp as it is especially in wormholes where they are in low nubers and ecm screws them so hard so congrats on making them completely useless.
realmkiller Occidendi Apocalypse Now. 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:57:11 - [398] - Quote Its CCP's way to screw over its player base and try and make some more money before everyone quits and starts playing star citizen when its released
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:57:36 - [399] - Quote so, i see ....this game is, if you don't have three or four account ,then you fxxk off ? why you just nerf carriers? the mutiple players using smart bomb ratting has been ignored? let em go? ok, ccp, u win . i'm out.
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:59:13 - [400] - Quote realmkiller wrote: Its CCP's way to screw over its player base and try and make some more money before everyone quits and starts playing star citizen when its released thats how it seems to me its called a death rattle i believe

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:00:03 - [401] - Quote Dengdeng Xiao wrote: so, i see ....this game is, if you don't have three or four account ,then you fxxk off ? why you just nerf carriers? the mutiple players using smart bomb ratting has been ignored? let em go? ok, ccp, u win . i'm out. Smartbomb ratting havens takes multiple characters and ONLY works on a couple of anom types (good luck smart bomb ratting a Gas Cloud Haven lol).
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 133	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:00:05 - [402] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Panther X wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Count Basie Thellere wrote: Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. Don't be insulting because you are behind the meta. I have known about carrier ratting and super ratting for years. and have made billions on it. More people have been doing it lately, yes, but that doesn't make it Flavour of the Month. Rorquals, now that is a different story. There's no need to be rude because you are stuck in your own little world and are afraid to try something else. I was carrier and super ratting long before carriers and fighters were changed and will continue to do so. Who knows? I may start ratting in my titan again and getting even more dank ticks. Don't think you can look down your nose at anyone because you think your way is best though. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:01:36 - [403] - Quote Panther X wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Panther X wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Count Basie Thellere wrote: Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. Don't be insulting because you are behind the meta. I have known about carrier ratting and super ratting for years. and have made billions on it. More people have been doing it lately, yes, but that doesn't make it Flavour of the Month. Rorquals, now that is a different story. There's no need to be rude because you are stuck in your own little world and are afraid to try something else. I was carrier and super ratting long before carriers and fighters were changed and will continue to do so. Who knows? I may start ratting in my titan again and getting even more dank ticks. Don't think you can look down your nose at anyone because you think your way is best though. Thought I'd stop by and highlight the one part that makes something FOTM.
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:02:03 - [404] - Quote It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins... Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen.
James Kestrel Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:02:45 - [405] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Faruzen en Divalone wrote: The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team. Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex. In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless. A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY). Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time. vid maker \| swagmaster \| "Don't be yolo and fly solo!"
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3379	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:32 - [406] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Count Basie Thellere wrote: Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. CCP essentially gave us a paint suppliers to paint them in corners every time they create a gravy train with skill injectors too. Every time they mess up, a large number of player can inject up to the new fad and milk it while it used to be a rather slow process unless you hit the bazaar for a character someone somehow pre-trained for that new niche by accident or were trained for it already for some reason. To avoid backlash from the player base, they really need to get the balancing engine into high gear soon so they can intervene on any badly balanced things they create faster than months after people invested into it.
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 119	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:37 - [407] - Quote Finally, the guide to how CCP Developers create this game: http://i.imgur.com/NTsj8ts.png
Niraia Starcakes Shadow Cartel 531	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:38 - [408] - Quote What is wrong with you? GÖÑ
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:38 - [409] - Quote Sam Khanid wrote: It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins... Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen. You didn't know that CCP does multiple nerfs at a time? Like they have since 2003? You must be really new lol.
wertolot Wertolot-Yutani corp. Shadow of xXDEATHXx 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:46 - [410] - Quote -¦-ï -+-¦ -ü-+-+-ü-+-¦-+-ï -¦-+-¦-¦-é-î -+ -+-¦ -ê-¦-¦ -¦-+-¦-Ç-¦-¦... -¦-ï -ì-é-+ -¦-+-¦-¦-+-¦-+-+ -+ -ì-é-+ -¦-¦-ü-+-+-+-¦, -ì-é-+ -+-+-Ç-+-¦-¦-Ç-¦-+-â-é-î -+-¦-¦-+-+-+-+-¦-+-+. -¦-Ç-+-é-+-¦-â -+-¦ -¦-+-ü-+-Ç-+-+-+-+-¦-¦-é-¦, -â-ü-é-Ç-¦-+-¦-¦-¦-é-¦ -+-â-¦-+-+-ç-+-â-Ä -Ç-¦-ü-ü-+-¦-â-Ä -¦-+-ü-¦-Ç-+-+-+-+-¦-å-+-Ä -+-¦ -Ä-é-â-¦-¦. -¦-ü-+-+ -¦-ï -à-+-é-+-é-¦ -ç-é-+ -é-+ -ü-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î -ü-+-Ç-+-ü-+-é-¦ -â -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-+-¦, -¦-ü-+-+ -¦-ü-é-î -¦-¦-¦-¦-Å -é-+ -+-Ç-+-¦-+-¦-+-¦ -é-+ -¦-¦ -+-+-¦-+-+ -Ç-¦-ê-+-é-î -+-ï -¦-¦-+ -+-+-¦-ü-¦-¦-¦-¦-+, -+-ï -+-¦-Ç-¦-¦-+ -¦ -ì-é-â -+-¦-Ç-â -¦ -+-¦ -¦-ï, -+-ï -¦-+-¦-¦-+ -¦ -ì-é-+-+ -+-+-Ç-¦ -¦ -+-¦ -¦-ï, -+-ï -+-â-ç-ê-¦ -+-+-¦-¦-+ -ç-é-+ -+ -¦-¦-¦ -+-â-¦-+-+ -ü-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î, -+-¦-+ -+-¦ -+-+-ä-+-¦-â -é-¦-¦ -¦-¦-¦ -¦-¦-+, -¦-ï -+-+-¦-¦-é-¦ -â-¦-é-+ -¦ -+-ï -+-ü-é-¦-+-¦-+-ü-Å -¦-¦-+ -+-+-Ç-¦, -¦-+-Å -¦-¦-ü -ì-é-+ -Ç-¦-¦-+-é-¦ -¦-+-Å -+-¦-ü -ì-é-+ -ç-¦-ü-é-î -¦-+-+-+-+. -Ç-¦-ü-ü-¦-¦-¦-+-é-¦ -+ -+-Ç-+-¦-+-¦-+-¦-à -+-+-+ -ç-¦-¦-+ -¦-ï -+-ï-é-¦-¦-é-¦-ü-î -¦-+-¦-+-é-î-ü-Å -+ -+-ï -+-+-+-+-¦-¦-+ -¦-¦-+.

Aernir Ridley Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:04:12 - [411] - Quote Just... no. Look, the training time to get into any capital ship should justify their increased damage over subcaps (which in the grand scheme of things isn't really that much when you take into account how easy it is to kill fighters now). Also, while I can understand that super ratting may produce a relatively large increase in money gain, normal carriers before this update still make equal to or less than incursions for a higher CPM. You're paying 2+ billion isk to make roughly 50 mil/tick (150 mil/hour) in a 100% dedicated ratting nidhoggur/thanatos with near max skills. And that's also assuming you're a part of a sov nullsec entity which can support those operations. With this update, not only will they be easier for both characters and NCPs to kill, but fighters will also do less damage per squadron than a single gecko on any drone ship with decent bonuses. It was already getting difficult to justify using carriers in combat with the fighter sig increase, but now with a TWENTY PERCENT decrease to light fighter damage you're talking about reducing the damage of a carrier from ~2500-3000 dps to ~2000-2400. That's a MASSIVE difference (especially when you're trying to break a fleet's logistics), and with it the only advantage to flying a carrier over a subcap will be their ability to tank enormous amounts of damage. Please for the love of god do not further kill the effectiveness of carriers! "For most people, the sky's the limit... For those who love aviation, the sky, is home." -Cheers! :D
cameron123 oneil UNITAS. ChaosTheory. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:06:00 - [412] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. The way you are going why don't you just remove all caps I didn't train for MONTHS to get vni-rattlesnake ticks with my carrier
Blaad Booyashaka Hotline K162 The Clown Car 30	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:07:05 - [413] - Quote Second good balance change in one relasse? Holy **** CCP, I forgive you pausing my skill queues.
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:07:06 - [414] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sam Khanid wrote: It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins... Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen. You didn't know that CCP does multiple nerfs at a time? Like they have since 2003? You must be really new lol. I don't see them nerf a ship in multiple capacities often, and by such huge numbers--when does that happen?
Wayne Silk The Scope Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:08:14 - [415] - Quote CCP are u on coffee break ???
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 134	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:08:14 - [416] - Quote No it would be FOTM if it had NEVER been a viable source before, like the Rorqual situation. Carriers and Supers have ALWAYS been a viable source of income, but the game changed to make the level of investment much easier to handle; skill injectors, low ship prices, etc. If no one had ever done it before and now all the cool kids do it, that's FOTM. Like a one hit wonder band. THAT is FOTM. Lowering the investment level to get into a profit making device is just opening a PROVEN income stream to more people. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:09:11 - [417] - Quote Imho you're basing a lot of bad product management decisions of quantitative metrics. If you bothered to look at this more holistically you'd likely rationalise the events of income increases to be more focused on a number of contributing events - specifically microtransaction(s). The Paradox of Thrift comes to mind here where you apparently aren't really factoring in player behaviours (qualitative). Some alliances and coalitions are right now actually coming out from under a "hoarding" behaviour, whereby they have been for the better part of month instructing members to "Krabbing" in order to get ready for larger PVP content next month. Further to this, you have issues around CCP's introduction to microtransaction behaviour such as PLEX. This, in turn, has created a serious impact on the Eve economy on all product line(s). Moreover to the point the skill injector changes, in turn, has pushed pricing out further. So now when you look at the said graph you've got a number of contributing variables that result in players likely more focused on PVE has given that's a likely easier route to liquidity in ISK which in turn feeds the aforementioned points (cause and effect). Subtle effects introduced by CCP also IMHO hint strongly that you folks are opting towards removing the "Plex to Play" instead of heading towards "Pay to play". Things like selling Plex in a bundle of 240 via player purchases but then selling content such as skins for 250. You're effectively goading your player base to over buy in order to purchase, so either a player pays for the 500 ISK bundle or they pay 240 and 100 resulting in a 90 remainder. Its a form of economic affordance that's obviously similar to retail channels who put in place "minimum spend" targets on consumers. The point I'm making is it's obvious you're attempting to draw further income from your player base in order to offset whatever investments you may be having as a company in either Eve Online or other product lines you're making. Here's the reality though, you're not growing your market share at the moment and with these ongoing changes in passive income you're imposing a negative effect on the existing market share you have (therefore likely replenishing the market is less inclined). Rorq mining is volatile at the moment due to anxiety about its changes (see 'Excavator' Mining Drone pricing indicative of its anxiety). Given your max reality for a Rorqual, a miner is approx 150m ISK per hour you in turn as a player may seek an alternative stream - in this case Super Ratting. De-invest in the Mining and re-invest back into PVE, but your buy-in is around 24billion+ for said super. This, in turn, means you'd need to grind for a month or maybe two in order to pay that investment back before you actually generate positive ISK. Factor in now the risk(s) associated with super rating which is quite high, you've now got to then focus in around how larger corporation/alliances/coalitions protect their members within systems. In doing this they, in turn, localise their deployment strategies to ensure players centre around Keepstar(s) for responsive fleet strategies. So what you graph don't show is Keepstar to System ratio(s) and where Super Ratting vs Deaths, as when you centre around these qualitative points you begin to have a better understanding of actual player behaviour(s) and why "super nerf" is required. You haven't argued this point, instead, you've taken a bad sample of data and said something like "My dog barks loudly, therefore Cars need to be nerfed"... how do these two points relate? and suppressing the virtual economy right now is simply an incentive to de-invest play-time in the game. Three months from now lets look at player login(s) per hour and compare results, I'll predict you'll see a reduction based on this ongoing behaviour to sweep the ISK creation. Effectively you're suffering from the same spiral Ultima Online suffered when it introduced the Black Dye Tub - You've created a butterfly effect and you're imho not self-ware yet. But you'll do what you want anyway, and thankfully we have CSM's there to protect us from behaviours that aren't player favoured -.....right? Advocates...where are they again?
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:09:56 - [418] - Quote Fxxk you CCP, you'd better say "fxxk off losers we don't need you, we just need the player who have three or four accounts and ratting with the smartbomb."
Hafwolf StarHunt Mordus Angels 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:11:21 - [419] - Quote I remember when I started playing that sanctums took 3 or 4 battleships to run in a fleet. Now I can solo a sanctum or heaven in an Ishtar or most cruisers. Up the NPC stats not take down the ship stats.
ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 458	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:12:31 - [420] - Quote CCP your new cash cow of extractors and injectors have caused this before them there was a natural progression as people trained into things. Now we have your little baby and anyone can be in anything whenever they want, whatever becomes the highest isk source in game people will just extract and inject into or make alts and inject them to that. The above is probably what you want to milk the already dwindling player base even more before the lights go out please get rid of the cancer guys like:- Sean Decker- VP and ex EA Maria Sayans- Marketing exec and ex EA since you have been taking on ex EA employees the game has gone to **** with so many micro transactions and nerfs to people incomes to try and force them to buy more plex with $$$ than with isk. And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub. BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA

Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 134	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:12:40 - [421] - Quote CCP, if you are concerned with the money in the game, take the money away, don't mess with the revenue stream. Sheesh cut off our heads to cure a hangnail. Tax our income appropriately to our income levels, that's one way to keep balance. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:13:30 - [422] - Quote If i told you that making more money in null-sec is allowing me to have more accounts? More accounts means more plex used More plex used means more money for you You nerf the hell out of ratting with capital you lost at least 2 accounts BTW you should change the forum section name "feature" is not really accurate... Fl4
Total Newbie Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 119	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:14:32 - [423] - Quote Mossyblog Barnes wrote: Imho you're basing a lot of bad product management decisions of quantitative metrics. If you bothered to look at this more holistically you'd likely rationalise the events of income increases to be more focused on a number of contributing events - specifically microtransaction(s). The Paradox of Thrift comes to mind here where you apparently aren't really factoring in player behaviours (qualitative). Some alliances and coalitions are right now actually coming out from under a "hoarding" behaviour, whereby they have been for the better part of month instructing members to "Krabbing" in order to get ready for larger PVP content next month. Further to this, you have issues around CCP's introduction to microtransaction behaviour such as PLEX. This, in turn, has created a serious impact on the Eve economy on all product line(s). Moreover to the point the skill injector changes, in turn, has pushed pricing out further. So now when you look at the said graph you've got a number of contributing variables that result in players likely more focused on PVE has given that's a likely easier route to liquidity in ISK which in turn feeds the aforementioned points (cause and effect). Subtle effects introduced by CCP also IMHO hint strongly that you folks are opting towards removing the "Plex to Play" instead of heading towards "Pay to play". Things like selling Plex in a bundle of 240 via player purchases but then selling content such as skins for 250. You're effectively goading your player base to over buy in order to purchase, so either a player pays for the 500 ISK bundle or they pay 240 and 100 resulting in a 90 remainder. Its a form of economic affordance that's obviously similar to retail channels who put in place "minimum spend" targets on consumers. The point I'm making is it's obvious you're attempting to draw further income from your player base in order to offset whatever investments you may be having as a company in either Eve Online or other product lines you're making. Here's the reality though, you're not growing your market share at the moment and with these ongoing changes in passive income you're imposing a negative effect on the existing market share you have (therefore likely replenishing the market is less inclined). Rorq mining is volatile at the moment due to anxiety about its changes (see 'Excavator' Mining Drone pricing indicative of its anxiety). Given your max reality for a Rorqual, a miner is approx 150m ISK per hour you in turn as a player may seek an alternative stream - in this case Super Ratting. De-invest in the Mining and re-invest back into PVE, but your buy-in is around 24billion+ for said super. This, in turn, means you'd need to grind for a month or maybe two in order to pay that investment back before you actually generate positive ISK. Factor in now the risk(s) associated with super rating which is quite high, you've now got to then focus in around how larger corporation/alliances/coalitions protect their members within systems. In doing this they, in turn, localise their deployment strategies to ensure players centre around Keepstar(s) for responsive fleet strategies. So what you graph don't show is Keepstar to System ratio(s) and where Super Ratting vs Deaths, as when you centre around these qualitative points you begin to have a better understanding of actual player behaviour(s) and why "super nerf" is required. You haven't argued this point, instead, you've taken a bad sample of data and said something like "My dog barks loudly, therefore Cars need to be nerfed"... how do these two points relate? and suppressing the virtual economy right now is simply an incentive to de-invest play-time in the game. Three months from now lets look at player login(s) per hour and compare results, I'll predict you'll see a reduction based on this ongoing behaviour to sweep the ISK creation. Effectively you're suffering from the same spiral Ultima Online suffered when it introduced the Black Dye Tub - You've created a butterfly effect and you're imho not self-ware yet. But you'll do what you want anyway, and thankfully we have CSM's there to protect us from behaviours that aren't player favoured -.....right? Advocates...where are they again? Pretty damn good. Wouldn't it also be simple to take the materiel requirement to build something and increase it? Make the materials for building (minerals and reactions) far greater?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3379	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:14:39 - [424] - Quote ALUCARD 1208 wrote: And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub. PLEX price will always adjust to what people can or want to pay for them in ISK.
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 134	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:14:44 - [425] - Quote Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: If i told you that making more money in null-sec is allowing me to have more accounts? More accounts means more plex used More plex used means more money for you You nerf the hell out of ratting with capital you lost at least 2 accounts BTW you should change the forum section name "feature" is not really accurate... Fl4 LOL yeah it should be "SURPRIZE BUTTSECKS TODAY" My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:15:27 - [426] - Quote I decided to do some quick math. My current thanatos for ratting does 2883.7 DPS as shown ingame. With a 20% drop, I expect that DPS number to fall to 2306. Also, my average tick is just shy of 50 mil. I expect to see average ticks of 40 mil. Combine that with a corp tax of 12.5%, I am looking at about 36.8 mil average ticks after taxes. That is just BARELY better than a ishtar. So, I now ask myself, what is the point? I have perfect ishtar skills already, so why bother with a almost perfect carrier anymore? IMO Waste of skillpoints and time getting ot Fighters V, and I have Gall CArrier V half done.
Burberry Muffin University of Caille Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:17:54 - [427] - Quote If this changes pass, i will unsub and extract my 4acounts. Im done! Im fcking serious. Ill gave a lot love, money, and time to fly capitals. howght!
Elliott Spitzer Sphincter Inc. Coalition of the Unfortunate 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:18:12 - [428] - Quote The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. So instead of pissing off 1/4 of nullsec players, let's **** off all of them?
FT Cold Mouth Trumpet Cavalry. Mouth Trumpet Cavalry 106	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:18:21 - [429] - Quote Awesome changes. A good step in the right direction.
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1908	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:19:59 - [430] - Quote I am cleaning up this thread give me a few minutes here. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:32:17 - [431] - Quote CCP, do you really think there is no bad affection about the multiple players using smartbomb ratting ? You are forcing players who only have one account to leave. Wish you living in your dreamland and have fun! I can't stand your stupid decision anymore.
rhiload Feron-drake TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:32:53 - [432] - Quote im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap.
Niraia Starcakes Shadow Cartel 531	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:34:44 - [433] - Quote rhiload Feron-drake wrote: im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap. This. Fixing missions was too hard? Maybe you need new developers. GÖÑ
Winter Archipelago Autumn Industrial Enterprises 886	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:35:29 - [434] - Quote I have no skin in this game as I'm not a carrier ratter, but it does seem like these are some pretty heavy-handed hits. Maybe instead have smaller reductions in damage, but further increase the rate at which fighters are targeted by rats, while also reducing the time between issuing commands. Also, since there's concern about ISK faucets, Incursions remain a pretty significant source of ISK when compared to the number of people who run them and the relative degree of safety. Why not move 10% or so of the ISK payouts from Incursions into LP? For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Creecher Virpio Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:36:20 - [435] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Lightbringer wrote: April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke. I do wonder if CCP even play their own game. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now., so now they do no damage before instantly dieing because of the previous nerf? :D RIP. How do they go from overpowered to no damage if they lose 20% DPS. Seems reasonable to me. i know you hate carriers because you cant fight them in your t1 frigates, but this is a terrible change for people who actually fly these ships.
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 135	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:36:32 - [436] - Quote rhiload Feron-drake wrote: im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap. Sorry to disagree Rhiload, but the answer to the economy's problem of accumulated and generated wealth is not stopping the revenue stream, it should be managing it. By clawing back the amount of risk free wealth, player generated wealth through bounties and insurance payments, you will have a more balanced and fair to everyone system. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Cant tell Ifserious Caldari Provisions Caldari State 29	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:36:40 - [437] - Quote Stop making isk making and pve worse and worse in already dated and **** pve system. No it will not make people buy plex instead of spending extra time making money. People will just Quit. i guess it will just be dreads online if there is even ne one left to play.
Mute Karimar Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:37:15 - [438] - Quote When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier. So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier?
Texas Queens Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:38:49 - [439] - Quote rhiload Feron-drake wrote: im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap. Its a shame that they wont listen to player feedback and will just do what they want anyway, why this is posted in the 'Feedback Center' is beyond me.
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:38:58 - [440] - Quote so...why you delete my reply ?

Tribal Trogdor Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance. 41	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:39:15 - [441] - Quote Fighters could do with a slight nerf to their alpha, but hitting sustained dps is kind of garbage. Keeping sustained dps is already hard with how easy they are to kill now. You didn't want to affect other people doing anoms, which is why the focus was only on carrier/super ratting, correct? There was no other way to do this? What issues did you come across when looking into other solutions? Could the types of rats in high end anoms not be swapped to include some more sig tanking cruisers or such? What about spawn locations? Could waves in the higher end anoms not be scattered with somethink like group A,B,C spawing 50km in different directions with rats of various engagment ranges, where travel time would lower income? Most other larger ships should be able to hit that far no problem with longer range weapons/sentries. The issue is predictability. People know exactly what is going to spawn where and when it will happen. It makes it too easy to do stuff like smartbomb ratting, boson ratting, and carrier/super ratting. What if one time you did a haven and the second wave was a bunch of short range battleships, the next time was a mix of long and short range ones, the third time was a large group of battlecruisers, and the forth time was a handful of bs, but four to five tackle frigs. Also want to buy random LOL HIC rats to keep people on their toes :D This kind of stuff would get you similar results, without specifically hitting a specific type of ship, that has negative effects on application in other situations. Unfortunately we get all of 3 days to have this kind of discussion vov
Natheniel Mostly Sober The Bastard Cartel 131	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:40:03 - [442] - Quote CCP Needs to work on the main issue in the game and that is the unlimited SUPPLY of isk. There is such a thing as 'over farming' and it should apply to a region. Each region needs to have a limited supply of minerals and isk that can be generated, if a large entity is hitting that cap, anoms don't spawn, minerals turn to garbage, things deteriorate until the amount of farming is reduced to a sustainable level. That way it forces large entities to instead of concentrate in one unlimited isk fountain area they spread out and are forced to take more space, thus creating more content. It also lets CCP set a target isk generation cap that they are comfortable with without screwing over smaller groups. "Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:40:33 - [443] - Quote Mute Karimar wrote: When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier. So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier? I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". No they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints
ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 458	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:40:57 - [444] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: ALUCARD 1208 wrote: And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub. PLEX price will always adjust to what people can or want to pay for them in ISK. My points still stand so this is how its going at minute. Yes plex prices may come down but cost of things are going up so your either stuck with having to grind more of your limited playtime or buy more plex and further lining ccps pockets just to get the isk for that new faction battleship that ccp has so kindly increased the build cost on. There will also become a point that sp farming is the highest income so more people will make alts for that further lining ccps pockets with subs/plex/multiple account training but this will have a bubble were as the supply is bigger than demand causing prices to tumble and will lead to unsubs. While at first the sp farms look good on the PCU it actually masks the real amount of players that currently play and looks attractive as ccp are trying to sell the company and dont give a ** after the sale when the bubble burst and the buyers realise the games gone to ** because of stupid decisions that have killed the economy. Also using the metric of delve is also stupid alot of regions look in line but delve sticks out you want to know why that is ccp? because goons have 20k+ of the most resourceful members the game has stacked into one region of course its going to look like that BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Jonas Skypilot Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:42:03 - [445] - Quote Why dafuq don`t u nerf AFK ratting and WH ratting and Multiboxer instead of hard working Carrier/Superpilot. Did u ever rat in a super CCP? It is ******* cancer, but 80+ Mil Ticks are worth it, but not worth anymore after nerft! Or do you want that so many Superpilots train into rorqs and start mining. I see the next Rorq nerf incoming cause there is too much isk in ores. CCPlease
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 135	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:42:30 - [446] - Quote Why don't you make a change to the banking system as well? Let players choose which CCP/NPC corp sponsored bank their isk wallet is held at and regulate the banking system. Allow for a modest interest rate, but also allow for market fluctuations, "corporate scandals" (Hello Lore Department I'm looking at you) and rising/falling stock indexes be a revenue sink for players, corporations and alliances. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3379	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:42:38 - [447] - Quote Mute Karimar wrote: When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier. So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier? The poweer curve is supposed to be linear increase in power for exponential cost increase. Gaining "just 20%" is supposed to cost you a lot of extra.
Star Desu Pure Avarice. Pandemic Legion 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:43:58 - [448] - Quote Guess CCP's management and design team really don't want people playing this game anymore
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:44:05 - [449] - Quote CCP, do you really like players who have three or four accounts and using smartbomb ratting everytime? you like em?
Jalon Kaladreel Stimulus Rote Kapelle 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:10 - [450] - Quote lol. Has answer in pocket to make pve harder. Nerfs pvp harder instead. Wtf ccp. Stupid. Carriers do not need another nerf lol.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:26 - [451] - Quote ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: ALUCARD 1208 wrote: And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub. PLEX price will always adjust to what people can or want to pay for them in ISK. My points still stand so this is how its going at minute. Yes plex prices may come down but cost of things are going up so your either stuck with having to grind more of your limited playtime or buy more plex and further lining ccps pockets just to get the isk for that new faction battleship that ccp has so kindly increased the build cost on. This is not true. If you are doing anomalies you are going to get escalations (less often then now, but you will get them). And you can sell it or run it, and with this change + the escalation nerf the prices of the things you get should be MUCH higher eventually. The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time. It's like my role in this thread is to explain to other ratters that "it's going to be ok, just breathe" lol. This is a good change at the end of the day, it will make things easier for all of us who rat for an EVE-living.
Mute Karimar Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:35 - [452] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over?
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:41 - [453] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mute Karimar wrote: When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier. So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier? I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints Seeing as the average, semi-skilled carrier will make no better than a Ishtar on the average, and a max carrier wwill only make 5-10m more it removes the entire incentive to run a carrier for ratting. Might as well all go back to AFK VNI's and ishtars at this rate.
Mip ONE Ghost Pixel IT'S ONLY PIXELS 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:42 - [454] - Quote NERF CCP !!!
Elliott Spitzer Sphincter Inc. Coalition of the Unfortunate 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:58 - [455] - Quote Elliott Spitzer wrote: The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. So instead of pissing off 1/4 of nullsec players, let's **** off all of them? Disregard, I misread what you posted, nothing to see here.
Winter Lee Wintershadow Therapy. Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:46:06 - [456] - Quote OK here is my 5 cents... For years I have always believed that this game is a bit odd, it is the people that I play with that have kept me subed. Now lets take a look at my naive way of playing eve: Always work towards something bigger - Since I started playing I always wanted to get into something bigger, from a cruiser to a BC and now I am working into perfecting my skills into faxes for one toon and super carrier to the other. This takes years (or enough $) to train to. Not to mention the I strongly believe that CCP is encouraging people to multi box. Let's say my current goal is to get 30 bill for a super. At 135 isk per hour ratting with one carrier account this would take me 222 hours of ratting. Ratting, is IMHO the best way for someone that doesn't have 6 hours a day to play. Being that said if I wanted to reach this goal I'll have to average 200m a day for 150 days if I have 1 or 2 hours to play the game and want to throw some pvp here and there till I can reach my goal. Now I also have the option of buying plex, which lets say to get those same 30 bill it would be roughly $350 that I can make in a day of work. To some people it might be 2 or 3 days to some people more. So here are my two options: 1. If I don't want to spend 222 hours mindlessly ratting, easy, multi box and pay CCP. 2. If I want to reach my goal in one day, easy give CCP $350. Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3381	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:47:32 - [457] - Quote Mute Karimar wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over? The price tag on that rattlesnake will change pretty soon sir.
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:48:01 - [458] - Quote Mute Karimar wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over? because if they did that no one would buy pirate bses and t3cs and both of those are important to their current agenda
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:48:18 - [459] - Quote Elliott Spitzer wrote: Elliott Spitzer wrote: The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. So instead of pissing off 1/4 of nullsec players, let's **** off all of them? Disregard, I misread what you posted, nothing to see here. I was wondering lol, I was like ("did he get that backwards"?
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:12 - [460] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Mute Karimar wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over? The price tag on that rattlesnake will change pretty soon sir. I was just about to say that lol. It seems like people are forming opinions from incomplete data.

Elenahina Agony Unleashed The Bastard Cartel 1723	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:14 - [461] - Quote Mister Toucher wrote: At this point you might as well just remove supers from the game. Please gimp them more. I would be surprisingly ok if they did. Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3166	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:29 - [462] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec I don't really have strong feelings about this change (I don't have any carrier pilots and I don't really PvE), but there is something unsettling about this. You've isolated a very specific problem here - Carriers and supers are too strong in PvE. I would think the resolution to that very specifically defined problem should be just as specific. "IDK, just nerf their dmg I guess," seems ham-handed. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Captain Mctightpants Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:36 - [463] - Quote Its fine. Just inject a high sec toon for incursions (which will never be nerfed) when injectors are at their highest :tinfoil: In all seriousness making a super i spent years training and isking for to get nerfed so hard that i make less than risk free incursion runners is bull. 3 injectors and a new toon will get you 200m+ per hour. Finally for everyone who says "this is fine" remember when they get done nerfing our income streams, they will come for yours. First they came for the t3c, and I did not speak outGÇö Because I was not a Hamgu. Then they came for the excavators, and I did not speak outGÇö Because I was not a Rorqual Miner. Then they came for the fighters, and I did not speak outGÇö Because I was not a super krab. Then they came for meGÇöand there was no one left to speak for me.
Tobias Frank 48	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:50 - [464] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: We will continue to observe the economy What about hiring an actual economist again? We had that before, EVE was a way more better game back then.
ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 459	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:50:07 - [465] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time. not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3381	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:50:30 - [466] - Quote Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote: Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder? Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting...
Mute Karimar Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:51:27 - [467] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: The poweer curve is supposed to be linear increase in power for exponential cost increase. Gaining "just 20%" is supposed to cost you a lot of extra. Yeah, I know and understand that, but if I bring a ship double the prize to actually have LESS income then the curve is no curve anymore.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:51:50 - [468] - Quote ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time. not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable? take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies..
ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 459	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:52:34 - [469] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote: Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder? Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting... afk ratting is more of a problem anywhere else apart from delve BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Yami Tsuriel Sudden-Impact Solyaris Chtonium 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:52:48 - [470] - Quote No Fun Allowed. You are nerfing fun, rewarding and high activity stuff that keeps people logging in. No wonder you are bleeding subscribers when you nerf fun things to the ground. If this goes one Eve is dying wont be a meme anymore it will become reality. Stop "fixing" things that aren't a problem and start fixing things that are like GHOSTRAINING, HIGHSEC INCURSIONS and AFK RATTING. #CCP*GS happymerchant.jpg

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:52:57 - [471] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote: Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder? Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting... They could if they were willing to put an NPC dread in every anom
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:53:07 - [472] - Quote I expect to see the following meta after this change takes affect. 1. carrier and super fleets will be put on back burner 2. Titans, dreads and fax fleets will dominate cap warfare
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3381	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:55:07 - [473] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote: Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder? Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting... They could if they were willing to put an NPC dread in every anom That screws up ratting for everyone who can't just GTFO when the dread spawn. Remove auto aggro on drones and it's all over. The best "afk" truck become a FoF missile boat and those have limited launched load which need to be turned back on all the time.
Geanos The Scope Gallente Federation 40	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:55:28 - [474] - Quote Geanos wrote: The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at 15 minutes, right? So if you add a formula for carrier/super ratting like this - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future. I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with a tax on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK". If you want to make it really really easy, you can add this formula at the end of tick bounty calculations, just like you do with other taxes. This means that it will apply even if the player killed just 1 rat with the carrier and the rest with other ships, but it's still better than nerfing. It's just an extra IF (if corp tax / if alliance tax / if ship class).
Mute Karimar Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:55:39 - [475] - Quote That is a tempting idea... Man, I know folks who let their 5( or is it 6?) accs run their ISKtars almost 24/7. Those make money with almost zero effort I can only dream of in my carrier. And in my carrier I needa be constantly looking and clicking. No YT/YP and just checking the wallet every 20 minutes...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3381	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:59:15 - [476] - Quote Geanos wrote: Geanos wrote: The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at 15 minutes, right? So if you add a formula for carrier/super ratting like this - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future. I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with a tax on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK". If you want to make it really really easy, you can add this formula at the end of tick bounty calculations, just like you do with other taxes. This means that it will apply even if the player killed just 1 rat with the carrier and the rest with other ships, but it's still better than nerfing. It's just an extra IF (if corp tax / if alliance tax / if ship class). Except I'm pretty sure there is nothing currently in game that exist to influence wallet entries based on current ship type. Will people eject from their carrier/supers to get their tick while in a pod and then hop back in to continue the farming?
jkeegs Airuta Something Something Darkside. Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:59:16 - [477] - Quote Is there anything in the game that you do not want to nerf now i have a rorqual and a pve carrier so i can make isk for pvp you have nerfed both of these income sources with the Pirate battleship nerf as well getting close to packing this game in but i might just extract all my toons but 1 and just play the game with him. ccp ruining the game they built this is not suppose to be an even playing field if someone joins the games today they are screwed. ccpig
ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 459	Posted - 2017.06.09 14:59:54 - [478] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time. not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable? take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies.. you do realise the beloved T3cs that run those escalations are getting nerf batted right so will not be run as often BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Ceadus Vyvense Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:01:52 - [479] - Quote Please reconsider the changes you are bring to fighters. In the post you say that there is too much isk being brought into the system. I AGREE on that point. A 5-8% reduction on bounties would work on solving several issues. The VNI and the Ishtar would get nerfed while toning back capital and supercapital ratting. In my eyes for pve the vni is the biggest offender. Its cheap. Its afkable. Its the perfect storm for pve and abuses decade old npc AI. If I am in a fitted carrier that costs 21x what I would need to buy a solid VNI for slightly better ticks whats even the point of ratting in a carrier? It would be alot more effective for me to multibox a few VNIs. And that sounds like a money grab. I can only rat in a carrier for so long before going insane. Do you know how long I can rat in a VNI? ALL DAY. Why should people not even bothering to play the game make more isk, easier than a carrier does. I challenge every employ that is trying to roll-out this change to rat a couple billion isk in a carrier with their sanity intact. Now I am not saying that I expect linear rewards with spending more isk. But players should be rewarded for accually playing the game unlike the Ishtar VNI spam in every decent true-sec system there is. Now I, like you employs at CCP am passionate about this game. But as time goes on this year its getting harder and harder not just devolving into insults as I see the changes you have been making.
Rotkiv Oknehzum The Hell Empire SLYCE Pirates 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:02:07 - [480] - Quote First T3 Cruiser, then fighters Next you should probably nerf Velator, too imbalanced NERF THE GAME, already Tech III for life

JohnnyTazer Preeminence It Burns When I'm PvPing 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:02:19 - [481] - Quote -1 I don't see how this helps at all. Already my nidhoggur can be de-fanged by lots of small ships, or even a T1 frig can jam out my DPS. Last pvp nidhoggur I had died gloriously in battle, but I was able to take out a few ships in the process, and after it died I was still satisfied because it was a "GOOD FIGHT". That is content right there. Both sides entered battle, some ships survived, some died on each side. If my carrier loses this dps gonna be hard reason to field that much isk in pvp, and that means less content for me and other people. Fix the real issue, and its not with fighter DPS that's for damn sure. Also, as it stands right now, if there are just 2 guardians on field, a solo carrier is unable to break the tank. How are Light fighters OP in PvP again? Can't even break 1 guardian repping another without help.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3381	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:02:33 - [482] - Quote ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time. not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable? take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies.. you do realise the beloved T3cs that run those escalations are getting nerf batted right so will not be run as often They don't need to be run as often if less spawn. Some are also run in different things than T3Cs so there are still options to run them.
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:03:34 - [483] - Quote what i dont get is all the people saying theyre gonna extract and quit you realise by extracting you just encourage them and give them more money lol if you wanna quit go for it but dont extract lol
Texas Queens Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:03:50 - [484] - Quote ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time. not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable? take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies.. you do realise the beloved T3cs that run those escalations are getting nerf batted right so will not be run as often You do realize that people use other ships for that right? Marauders are the **** for 10/10's.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:04:25 - [485] - Quote So, decided to do some more math. Average damage of most combat carrier fits Chimera - averages 1700 with almost max skills Thanny - 1800 Archon - 1500 Nid - 1500 so, for PVP, archons and nids could easily expect to see just above 1k dps average, while chimmy's and thannies should expect a drop to around 1.3k damage. Just sad.
ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 460	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:07:06 - [486] - Quote Texas Queens wrote: You do realize that people use other ships for that right? Marauders are the **** for 10/10's. ya and so easy to use in hostile space if ur escalation takes you there BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3381	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:09:16 - [487] - Quote ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Texas Queens wrote: You do realize that people use other ships for that right? Marauders are the **** for 10/10's. ya and so easy to use in hostile space if ur escalation takes you there And here I though it was supposed to be dangerous and all that...
Cat Beryllium GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:09:29 - [488] - Quote Alternatively... And please hear me out. Every time someone clicks a highsec incursion gate. There's a 50/50 chance that they are teleported to a random nullsec system. With increased probability to target nullsec systems that recently had pod kills in them. Isk faucet plugged. Everybody wins.
Steve Atreides Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Circle-Of-Two 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:10:03 - [489] - Quote Lucian James wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: ...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs Totally agreed . On a separate note i dont know how having too much isk is a problem for an economy. Lots of ISK flow means pilots are able to buy Plex, at the new more expensive rate lets be honest CCP, and also to invest money in shiny ships with shiny fittings because they can. This means pilots are buying items from the market at a much higher rate than they would if simply grinding for Plex which means production increases to meet demand. How cutting the ISK in a free flowning market helps it just makes no sense. It doesn't work, its agaisnt all the core principles of a healthy, functioning economy. I personally think someone in CCP has been talking to the Mittani and employing some Art of War tactics to destbilize smaller alliances. Stop pissing about with your game CCP and stop being so fking greedy. You have now closed all your other games down to focus on Eve because you couldn't make them work. Dont ** up your one last pot of gold and if you get a little less greedy, drop your Plex real life prices you might end up making more money as more people rush to buy cheaper plex....and stop nerfing peoples money making. Going to kill carrier ratting altoegtheer at this rate. Making ISK keeps people playing and enjoying your game.
Winkin Amok. Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:10:53 - [490] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. So basically you've had your fill of people buying extractors and plexes to get into carriers and supers. I cannot wait for the Mining platforms, you're gonna make so much -ú-ú-ú-ú-ú and then nerf it like Rorquals, carriers, and supers haha.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:15:40 - [491] - Quote ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time. not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable? take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies.. you do realise the beloved T3cs that run those escalations are getting nerf batted right so will not be run as often My beloved T3Cs? I don't fly them. I do escalations in my Machariel unless it's blood raider space then i use a Vargur. Dude, you need to chill. you are acting like the world is ending lol.
Tara Read Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 968	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:17:27 - [492] - Quote I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it. My prediction was CCP would nerf individual PVE streams such as Rorquals and Super ratting which are some of the highest income streams for individual players and had been for years. What CCP fails to realize is that people don't pve for fun in high end groups, we pve to pay for our PVP. When you lose a doctrine ship or a dread or something of that nature in a big brawl (that CCP sort of markets to Bright eyed new players who they pray have a Credit Card and will inject and buy Plex to reach a level veteran player have) You naturally need to replace it. What CCP fails to realize is in their greed ridden pay to win system of BUY PLEX NOW and ridding Eve of it's pve streams gradually is that now you are truly killing content for players. You give us less targets to hunt, you give us less big ships to destroy because dumb people like to fly big shiny ships, and you further alienate the concepts talked about during the release of Citadel when Supers and Titans were reworked and retooled to give then a new role with very big nerfs to hp and ewar immunity. Odd how this isn't a dev post on the PvP ability of such ships but rather a economc view. Eve has trillions of isk in it's economy and has for over a decade. Why now the sudden shift towards killing individual income streams? Because all CCP wants is for you to buy Plex with real money period. First they'll nerf Rorquals and Supers. Then theyll nerf anom repawns. Then they make it where capitals cannot run anoms or level 5 missions and instead encourage "group" pve like those stupid Blood Raider sites that can be ran in frigates as "high end pve" as a way to finally kill individual income. Welcome to the new Eve. Better whip out that credit card. FYI CCP I've always paid for my 7 accounts with actual money. I hate the idea of having to pve for my subscription and my pve time is spent fueling my PvP for PL and my own endeavours. Keep this up and I think a few of us will just get so sick of the EA like way this game is headed and go find something else to play. Which is pretty sad. Don't make us buy Plex to PvP.
Plyn South of Heaven Ltd Blades of Grass 66	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:18:19 - [493] - Quote Is it frustrating to train into and buy ships that get nerfed? Absolutely. But this isn't the end of the world, folks. Ratting in a thanatos 5 years ago you wouldn't have dreamt of the kinds of tics people can get now, so we really can't say there hasn't been some serious power creep as far as ISK generation with these ships. Now, some of the people flying these may not have been doing so for so long, and maybe some of the older pilots don't remember those days, so I guess a lot of people probably feel entitled to keep what they've had for a while here. I think this isn't a bad move at all. Coupled with the faction BS changes I think we'll see a fair dip in the average profit per hour of null residents. It's all going to be meaningless, though, overall, until some other unrelated, or semi-related, changes are made. People are going to continue crabbing up until they have a better reason to fight than for funsies. Typical PvE is going to remain boring until the dynamic PvE being worked on gets polished and available to other areas of the game. The most negative thing that I see with this, though, is that we are back to directly disincentivizing active play. We don't have a solid handle on how this will feel yet, but if the profitability drops low enough (both from isk/time running the site and potentially replacing the occasional lost fighters) it will no longer be worth the effort of actively commanding your fighters, and you'll see the carriers replaced with rattlesnakes and ishtars. I'm curious to know the processes involved in coming up with the numbers for 20% damage reduction and the 15% increase in fighter targetting.
Radkiel HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:21:06 - [494] - Quote These changes won't hurt me that much as I am retired and have close to unlimited play time. My concern is for the person that works 40+ hours, has a family and other time consuming duties. He/she will now have to spend more time ratting so he/she can buy PvP ships for the weekend. Resist
Geanos The Scope Gallente Federation 40	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:22:35 - [495] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Geanos wrote: Geanos wrote: The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at 15 minutes, right? So if you add a formula for carrier/super ratting like this - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future. I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with a tax on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK". If you want to make it really really easy, you can add this formula at the end of tick bounty calculations, just like you do with other taxes. This means that it will apply even if the player killed just 1 rat with the carrier and the rest with other ships, but it's still better than nerfing. It's just an extra IF (if corp tax / if alliance tax / if ship class). Except I'm pretty sure there is nothing currently in game that exist to influence wallet entries based on current ship type. Will people eject from their carrier/supers to get their tick while in a pod and then hop back in to continue the farming? I can't blame you for not reading through, I have the same bad on forums :) Clarifica+¢ion: that's why I added the last part, with "really really easy". It's just an extra condition on what we already have. You changed ships? Bad luck, tax will still apply for that tick.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:23:02 - [496] - Quote The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy. You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can). I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again.
Manicsar The Study of Wumbology Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:24:01 - [497] - Quote TL:DR CCP needs more people buying plex
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:24:05 - [498] - Quote If you actually think that carriers and supers are overpowered in PvP you should probably take some time and try playing your own game. Fighters are already incredibly easy to either jam out or defang to the point that you can become useless on field within seconds. There is really nothing like spending 2 bil on fighters only to watch them get shredded in 5 seconds. Seriously diminishing the PvP capability of ships that are expensive, take a long time to train into, and are incredibly vulnerable on field especially in small group scenarios, just to try and fix nullsec PvE is an incredibly stupid excuse for a solution. Not to mention that your assertion that carriers and supers are somehow overpowered just shows that you literally don't know what you're talking about.
Blitz Hacker Serious About Space Things. Test Alliance Please Ignore 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:24:43 - [499] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.. May report reflects the disproportional nerfs that have been/are being applied to Rorquals. You nerf one isk faucet and another turns on. People are in rebuilding/saving phases, of course people are making isk.. one way or another. Saying the trend is unsustainable or 'bad' for the economy, I see zero proof of any of this. Only 'bad' thing about it is diluting the isk so everyone can buy ingame plex, possibly causing inflation. I played this game because it was a sandbox, this is not a sandbox and that's becoming more apparent with each daily patch notes.
ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 460	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:25:02 - [500] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: ALUCARD 1208 wrote: Texas Queens wrote: You do realize that people use other ships for that right? Marauders are the **** for 10/10's. ya and so easy to use in hostile space if ur escalation takes you there And here I though it was supposed to be dangerous and all that... Once the risk outweighs the reward considerably they become less attractive and run far less meaning the product for the other guys whos had there incomes nerfed becomes unattainable. All the while sp farms are making far more isk than ratting but hey thats ok as its removing plex from the market and putting more money in ccps pocket than the guy carrier ratting so lets hit that guy and force him to sp farm so more $$$ BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA

Winter Lee Wintershadow Therapy. Test Alliance Please Ignore 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:25:18 - [501] - Quote Tara Read wrote: I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it. My prediction was CCP would nerf individual PVE streams such as Rorquals and Super ratting which are some of the highest income streams for individual players and had been for years. What CCP fails to realize is that people don't pve for fun in high end groups, we pve to pay for our PVP. When you lose a doctrine ship or a dread or something of that nature in a big brawl (that CCP sort of markets to Bright eyed new players who they pray have a Credit Card and will inject and buy Plex to reach a level veteran player have) You naturally need to replace it. What CCP fails to realize is in their greed ridden pay to win system of BUY PLEX NOW and ridding Eve of it's pve streams gradually is that now you are truly killing content for players. You give us less targets to hunt, you give us less big ships to destroy because dumb people like to fly big shiny ships, and you further alienate the concepts talked about during the release of Citadel when Supers and Titans were reworked and retooled to give then a new role with very big nerfs to hp and ewar immunity. Odd how this isn't a dev post on the PvP ability of such ships but rather a economc view. Eve has trillions of isk in it's economy and has for over a decade. Why now the sudden shift towards killing individual income streams? Because all CCP wants is for you to buy Plex with real money period. First they'll nerf Rorquals and Supers. Then theyll nerf anom repawns. Then they make it where capitals cannot run anoms or level 5 missions and instead encourage "group" pve like those stupid Blood Raider sites that can be ran in frigates as "high end pve" as a way to finally kill individual income. Welcome to the new Eve. Better whip out that credit card. FYI CCP I've always paid for my 7 accounts with actual money. I hate the idea of having to pve for my subscription and my pve time is spent fueling my PvP for PL and my own endeavours. Keep this up and I think a few of us will just get so sick of the EA like way this game is headed and go find something else to play. Which is pretty sad. Don't make us buy Plex to PvP. Well said, if it's not pay to win it is becoming certainly pay to have fun.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16070	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:26:28 - [502] - Quote Radkiel wrote: These changes won't hurt me that much as I am retired and have close to unlimited play time. My concern is for the person that works 40+ hours, has a family and other time consuming duties. He/she will now have to spend more time ratting so he/she can buy PvP ships for the weekend. Resist Resist making more isk from escalations and having less isk stuffed into the economy with will probably translate into lower plex prices, meaning that ratters 4-6 months form now will have to rat LESS than they do now for game time? Yea, resist that stuff, we like being Wal-Mart level wage slaves!
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:26:57 - [503] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy. You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can). I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. well it certainly looks like a conspiracy and this is coming from someone who has no interest in flying a carrier and i dont fly bses either atm though i was planning to i fly a proteus and im trying to get into industry well industry is a big fat lie and proteus... just gonna have to see what happens its not looking too bad though
Creecher Virpio Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:29:07 - [504] - Quote Tara Read wrote: I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it. My prediction was CCP would nerf individual PVE streams such as Rorquals and Super ratting which are some of the highest income streams for individual players and had been for years. What CCP fails to realize is that people don't pve for fun in high end groups, we pve to pay for our PVP. When you lose a doctrine ship or a dread or something of that nature in a big brawl (that CCP sort of markets to Bright eyed new players who they pray have a Credit Card and will inject and buy Plex to reach a level veteran player have) You naturally need to replace it. What CCP fails to realize is in their greed ridden pay to win system of BUY PLEX NOW and ridding Eve of it's pve streams gradually is that now you are truly killing content for players. You give us less targets to hunt, you give us less big ships to destroy because dumb people like to fly big shiny ships, and you further alienate the concepts talked about during the release of Citadel when Supers and Titans were reworked and retooled to give then a new role with very big nerfs to hp and ewar immunity. Odd how this isn't a dev post on the PvP ability of such ships but rather a economc view. Eve has trillions of isk in it's economy and has for over a decade. Why now the sudden shift towards killing individual income streams? Because all CCP wants is for you to buy Plex with real money period. First they'll nerf Rorquals and Supers. Then theyll nerf anom repawns. Then they make it where capitals cannot run anoms or level 5 missions and instead encourage "group" pve like those stupid Blood Raider sites that can be ran in frigates as "high end pve" as a way to finally kill individual income. Welcome to the new Eve. Better whip out that credit card. FYI CCP I've always paid for my 7 accounts with actual money. I hate the idea of having to pve for my subscription and my pve time is spent fueling my PvP for PL and my own endeavours. Keep this up and I think a few of us will just get so sick of the EA like way this game is headed and go find something else to play. Which is pretty sad. Don't make us buy Plex to PvP. not empty quoting. I understand that you dont want unlimited isk faucets, but you're doing it the wrong way. if you want to limit rorqual mining, then find a way to make it ***** aids to multibox, like supercarrier ratting is. the problem with rorqual minining isnt that it pays 200m an hour, its that i can run 10 accounts easily making 200m an hour. find a way to stop that, and youll solve your problem. We finally have ways for individuals to make good money in this game and you *** nerf it. You made it possible for newer/more casual players to be able to effectively grind for their money, and now you are canning it. We actually had a way to combat the war chests of *** PL and NC. and other groups who have corps with trillions of isk that can just passively money, simply by actually playing the game. I actually feel like im getting something from grinding in this game, same with my corp mates. if you nerf these income streams itll just feel *** worthless, and ill just buy plex because i cant be arsed to *** rat for 45m an hour. But thats what you want, isnt it? me to buy ***** plex.
ROFL-HARRIS spicy memes and dank upvotes inc I too am gay 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:29:10 - [505] - Quote in another attempt to nerf goonswarm, ccp nerfs everyone else alot harder. l0l irl
HRRNighthawk Moosearmy Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:29:36 - [506] - Quote Instead of nerfing Carriers, which you actively have to control the fighters to make your money (and not get them killed), how about you do something about AFK VNIs? The cost/risk of a VNI is nothing compared to Carriers and you can just sit a bunch out and if one gets killed by a gang no biggy you've barely lost anything. Carrier i've lost 2.5-3b.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16073	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:32:56 - [507] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy. You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can). I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. well it certainly looks like a conspiracy and this is coming from someone who has no interest in flying a carrier and i dont fly bses either atm though i was planning to i fly a proteus and im trying to get into industry well industry is a big fat lie and proteus... just gonna have to see what happens its not looking too bad though It only looks like a conspiracy to people to shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making. You are too young in the game to know this but there used to be a time when getting a pirate ship BPCs from a 10/10 or a lucky commander spawn in an anomaly was like hitting the lottery. Now (because or supers and carriers ratting and because CCP turned up escalation chances too high) getting a pirate ship BPC or some deadspace mods from a 10/10 is like finding a penny on the ground aka no big deal. The only problem with what CCP is doing is it weakens carriers and supers in some pvp situations, but PVE and economy wise CCp is helping everyone by increasing the value of all of the isk in all of our wallets. It will be ok, the 1st time one of these crying super/carrier pilots sells an escalation for 350-400 mil (like it used to be) instead of 50 to 130 mil like they are now they will forget all of this crying they did lol.
Vic Jefferson Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore 1255	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:33:49 - [508] - Quote Terrible change. In the case of both the Rorquals and Carriers, it's horribly myopic to punish everyone and destroy the rest of the game's balance more or less because AegisSov/Phoebe changes created the situations where PvE capitals be used too efficiently and without a modicum of risk when used at the right scale. *The Rorqual never mined too much, and carriers never did too much damage* - the problem is the current sov-system combined with short jump ranges creates bubbles of capital dominance that are incredibly hard to challenge. When you buff the next ship class into viability, will there be anyone left who wants to inject to it? Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3756	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:35:20 - [509] - Quote Not sure if this is the right way. IMO it would be better to nerf bounty income in general by introducing cooldowns and soft caps like you did with mining belts. High-frequency, high density ratters should be the target regardless of their tools. Also I still like the no bounty but only tags idea... I'm my own NPC alt.
Vetus Metallicus Blue Angels Inc. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:35:24 - [510] - Quote You guys are ruining this game and this comes from somebody who barely rats. Isk making in this game is boring as all hell. You are needing t3cs that run dead sites, you are nerfing rorquals that mine and carriers that rat. The only thing left are high sec incursions that come at virtually 0 risk and provide absolutely 0 content for PvP players unless you'd like to go suicide ganking. Wih moon towers slated to be removed next and shooting citadels being even less fun to shoot than red triangles what exactly is left in space to shoot? VNIs? Woohoo. On and that ghost training people have made hundreds of billions from by now? Let's just ignore that little nugget altogether shall we? If you don't say anything maybe it will just go away right?

Mute Karimar Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS. 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:36:14 - [511] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Resist making more isk from escalations and having less isk stuffed into the economy with will probably translate into lower plex prices, meaning that ratters 4-6 months form now will have to rat LESS than they do now for game time? Yea, resist that stuff, we like being Wal-Mart level wage slaves! You drunk? Just curious...
Iv d'Este Private Security Squad 168	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:36:35 - [512] - Quote I would like to remind dear CCP that fighters are used not only in PvE, but also in PvP. And in particular on the citadels. If for any Pandemic Legion - no matter how much damage the carrier and supercarrier has done (PL can bring 100-150 carriers in grid), then for small alliances that are drops carriers or supercarriers and then try to escape - this is a serious blow. If your goal is to reduce revenue from anomalies, could you think of something with the anomalies themselves, and not with carriers and supercarriers, which are also a tool for PvP of small formations in situations where you need to inflict a lot of damage in a short time, while you are not killed. You also reduce the defense of citadels.
Joco Skljoco Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:37:09 - [513] - Quote CCP is bunch of greedy and incompetent individuals...U Are making changes based on your monthly economy reports....assume that you target delve Region and Imperium...but CCP forgot one important fact...Delve region has at least 30000 players with best organization and its normal to have strongest economy.The real problems of EVE u are putting aside.With Citadels u are kill PVP on stations,with skill injectors u are **** up everthing....No quality changes in the last five years,except command destoyers..U promised many things and accomplish nothing. Trying to take money for nothing. Honestly EVE is old, shabby, tired horse that pulls the failed releases, such as Dust and Valkyrie....EVE players need to pay for CCP incompetence.The only thing that keeps EVE alive is EVE Community and average player. Do not treat us as like people with developmental disabilities Last five moths I was ratting to 6 hours per day to buy Supercarrier and I trained skills for 6 moths and CCP say to me now, that I did it for nothing...CCP Larrikin do you think that the average EVE player live long as turtles??? To CCP Larrikin..... You are not our space friend...We can not be friends,,You are in EVE because of money, I'm in EVE because I love EVE. Maybe it's time that Eve died on this PC...CCP Good Job
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3167	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:37:56 - [514] - Quote HRRNighthawk wrote: Instead of nerfing Carriers, which you actively have to control the fighters to make your money (and not get them killed), how about you do something about AFK VNIs? Do you actually think this distinction matters in the context of the money supply? They know how much ISK is being generated by each ship in a given period of time. They're not "doing something" about AFK VNIs because they're trying to address the money supply problem, not the problem of carrier pilots who are ass-sore that VNI pilots are getting much smaller ticks for much less effort. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:38:06 - [515] - Quote Lmfao VNIs will continue to be an ez mode 20m per hour that can be multiboxed with minimal effort, but god forbid the ships that cost way more than a cruiser and need to be actively managed to pull ticks make isk even somewhat proportionate to their cost, right? The worst part about this, is it's not even just a PvE nerf. No, you nerf the PvP aspect of an already gimped ship class that you already nerfed to the ground a couple months ago. As if the 300% increase in fighter sig and the tracking nerfs weren't enough, now LR fibos get a 30% reduction in damage as well? Hey CCP, when was the last time one of you sat in a super and PvPd? Especially against a gang of AB Armor cruisers, or T3s? They can pretty much permanently tank a super. Let that sink in for a second. A 100m isk cruiser, can permatank a 30b isk ship. Because I guess balance is a thing. We're also not even getting into fighters being incredibly easy to defang or jam out. Honestly, if you're going to nerf something, how about you actually try it out for yourself in an actual combat situation before you go full ****** on an entire class of ships? Thanks. Oh, and while we're at it, can we talk about the 0 risk hi sec incursions that you can practically afk in and pull higher ticks than a super will be pulling after this patch? You know, if you're so concerned with that isk facet and everything.
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:38:08 - [516] - Quote "We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players." "all our players"? let me see.....you mean, the multi box players?
Mida Akhiko NerdHerd The Explicit Alliance 26	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:38:51 - [517] - Quote My main complaint with this is that I feel these actions are being taken a little too aggressively. If you look at all of the monthly economic reports since the start of the year, every month, the economy lost active isk. This totaled to some 141.5 Trillion active isk lost. Every month so far this has been the case. The only exception to this trend was May. Carrier changes happened well before May. Before I continue, I'd like to make the assertion that faucet or not, it doesn't really matter, because the net effect on the economy of any one given action is what matters. For the past 3 months, the economy has had less and less active isk. May was the first time this year the economy gained active isk, and it was a paltry 15t, compared to the 141.5 that was lost from it. Something to keep in mind, carriers were not changed at the start of May to make them suddenly better to cause this. If you guys are insistent on making the economy lose isk, then the issue lies in something else. My best guess would be what is the issue is more people ratting to this degree, not the quality of this type of ratting. The main reason I say it this way is there is going to be a baseline. Nerfing income is like whack-a-mole. So you've nerfed supers and carriers, okay. Most of these pilots are experienced members of the community. For a good number of them, they are going to then look at the money they are making, look at other options, and then move over to other said options. You could nerf Supers to the floor, but that isn't going to stop these pilots from making that level of isk. Think of it this way, how many people know a guy that used to super rat, but with the recent injector addition, have switched over to just farming that instead? Basically, nerfing an isk faucet is a waste of time, because all that will do is push people over to the next isk faucet. If you want to make meaningful changes to the faucet nature of the game, you either have to nerf all of the faucets so that people don't just move down one rung, or you have to give the isk a place to go. Looking at the economy reports, the far more troubling issue for the economy is that the places that isk can go into has been dwindling. This is probably due to the nature of citadels, as well as people starting to wind down pos usage due to incoming changes. You say that having such a large isk faucet is bad for the game? I would challenge that by saying it is good for the game, as that is the only LOCAL isk faucet that most people have access to. Most people are null players, hate to say it, but its true. What you need to do is not blanket nerf that faucet, you need to make it dynamic to encourage movement. What makes sense to me, make it so that regions get fatigue(but only in extreme ratting levels), but regenerate it quickly. This would then encourage people to invade their neighbors for areas because their area doesn't pay out as much anymore. You need to encourage people to spend, not encourage people to not do something. The problem is, which citadels being infinitely anchorable in a system, you guys kinda screwed the pooch and made it so that people are just too entrenched. If you have to clear 30 citadels out of a system to take it with some security, you probably are going to be reluctant to do that. You speak of weaponized boredom and stopping that, well, welcome to the citadel version. Where for a mere 1 billion isk, you can continue to bore you enemies for another week. tl;dr: The problem isn't making the isk, its that there's no real encouragement to spend it.
Illyria Mimikry Literally The Worst Community 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:39:02 - [518] - Quote Once again, instead of nerfing what you have to : the crazy amount of anomaly a system car generte and stack, you nerf the pirate bs, you nerf the carrier... Cap the amunt of anomaly a system car generate by 1 every 5 min, you'll see people spreading through systems, you'll see everyone enjoying more content, you'll see more small entity instead of everyone afk farming in delve... But no, you right, keep killing you game. One more step, it's already almost dead.
Trespasser S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 97	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:39:03 - [519] - Quote ok so im starting to see a pattern here, you dont want pirate battleships used in fleets and now it would seem you don't want people to effectively make money in carriers or supers either.
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:39:34 - [520] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: It only looks like a conspiracy to people too shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making. You are too young in the game to know this but there used to be a time when getting a pirate ship BPCs from a 10/10 or a lucky commander spawn in an anomaly was like hitting the lottery. Now (because or supers and carriers ratting and because CCP turned up escalation chances too high) getting a pirate ship BPC or some deadspace mods from a 10/10 is like finding a penny on the ground aka no big deal. The only problem with what CCP is doing is it weakens carriers and supers in some pvp situations, but PVE and economy wise CCp is helping everyone by increasing the value of all of the isk in all of our wallets. It will be ok, the 1st time one of these crying super/carrier pilots sells an escalation for 350-400 mil (like it used to be) instead of 50 to 130 mil like they are now they will forget all of this crying they did lol. well you seem to think this change will mean pirate bpcs will suddenly be worth 1bn each again except youre forgetting the wealthy players who already stockpile a bunch of pirate bses and they paid maybe 200-300m to produce or buy them who is going to buy a bpc for 1bn when a wealthy hoarder can sell a fully manufactured pirate bs for 999m all the way down to the 200m it originally cost them to acquire it

ALUCARD 1208 The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 460	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:39:39 - [521] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: You are too young in the game to know this but there used to be a time when getting a pirate ship BPCs from a 10/10 or a lucky commander spawn in an anomaly was like hitting the lottery. Now (because or supers and carriers ratting and because CCP turned up escalation chances too high) getting a pirate ship BPC or some deadspace mods from a 10/10 is like finding a penny on the ground aka no big deal. It will be ok, the 1st time one of these crying super/carrier pilots sells an escalation for 350-400 mil (like it used to be) instead of 50 to 130 mil like they are now they will forget all of this crying they did lol. Then you dial down the escalation chance and not the ship thats running the sites to get them and what dictates the price of the escalation is that the minimum drop is 130m so buying the escalation you atleast make 30m+ a little bounty if you dont get the drop. therfore getting a little reward for shelling out isk and taking a gamble on the bookmark BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
El'geherg Insurrection Mercenary Coalition 45	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:39:54 - [522] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy. You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can). I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. "The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16073	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:40:02 - [523] - Quote Mute Karimar wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Resist making more isk from escalations and having less isk stuffed into the economy with will probably translate into lower plex prices, meaning that ratters 4-6 months form now will have to rat LESS than they do now for game time? Yea, resist that stuff, we like being Wal-Mart level wage slaves! You drunk? Just curious... Nope, just a professional ratter who has been down this road with CCP a million times. If I'm not worried, you shouldn't be either. Would you like to make an isk bet paying 4 or 5 months from now, I'm down for that.
DDosing Notme Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:40:13 - [524] - Quote Just unsubbed my account, have fun.
Juvenius Drakonius 36	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:40:35 - [525] - Quote Closing ISK faucets is not going to raise PLEX demand....new goods, content and services will. You will only have a bladder effect where more season and ingame wealthier players will inject skills to the new NORM of maxing out ISK making. Its a cat and Mouse game that Skill Injectors have given the mouse faster legs. GIVE PLAYERS and GROUP of players MORE CONTENT and you will have more demand for ISK. Spice up PI with rare loot with an archaeological module, Captain quarters personalizaron, Station Walking, , Corp and Alliance Halls. It sounds silly but making more things to buy and make is the way you have more demand for isk. Rebalancing will only go so far, you want more $$ and a bigger economy? make a bigger game. There is no shame in saying you don't know something, and there is no glory in keeping knolege to yourself.
Mad Bosnian Stronghelm Corporation Solyaris Chtonium 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:40:44 - [526] - Quote I don't know what to say to this.... Same ** happened on Dust514 aka "nerf everything" and buff tanks which resulted to huge playerbase loss... Did you think about Chimera/Archon before doing this nerf? It's not like those ships had some decent dps, now it will be outdps-ed by a ***** Rattlesnake. I don't think I should continue to skill my Gallente Carrier lvl 5...
Vetus Metallicus Blue Angels Inc. 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:41:33 - [527] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: HRRNighthawk wrote: Instead of nerfing Carriers, which you actively have to control the fighters to make your money (and not get them killed), how about you do something about AFK VNIs? Do you actually think this distinction matters in the context of the money supply? They know how much ISK is being generated by each ship in a given period of time. They're not "doing something" about AFK VNIs because they're trying to address the money supply problem, not the problem of carrier pilots who are ass-sore that VNI pilots are getting much smaller ticks for much less effort. A carrier that costs 20 times that of a VNI and actually requires paying attention should make much more per hour not to mention the content it provides other people.
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:41:35 - [528] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: It only looks like a conspiracy to people too shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making. You crazy?
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:41:45 - [529] - Quote Vetus Metallicus wrote: high sec incursions that come at virtually 0 risk and provide absolutely 0 content for PvP players unless you'd like to go suicide ganking. wait until they are near lowsec gates and wait on the other side for the dumbasses who accidentally jump through lmao
Illyria Mimikry Literally The Worst Community 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:42:21 - [530] - Quote Another isk supply : https://zkillboard.com/alliance/1354830081/group/513/ Because arfk mining is 100% safe in delve, because you dot do anything against that. Enjoy your gooswarm eve online them park.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16073	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:45:05 - [531] - Quote El'geherg wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy. You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can). I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. "The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen. There is nothing to listen to (other than the concern about PVP capability). People are being dumb about all this, mostly because they don't know enough not to. It's going to be ok. It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now. All of which is moot. Almost none of you are actually going to quit, almost all of you are going to benefit from this change in short order, and CCP is not going to pull back from this change no matter how many times ISD has to clean this thread of profanity (lol). TL;DR this is yet another 'blowing off steam' thread that CCP puts up to let you get it out of your system. Nothing you say is going to change anything.
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 50	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:45:09 - [532] - Quote Little story. In 2011 I came to nullsec, hustled to get a HAM Tengu for Serp rats, 4 months and boom nerfed. Then I have switched to drones, nerfed. Trained Marauders, after short time Bastion Module was introduced making my Golem a tasty target. Finally I have managed to train for carriers and dreads, they got nerfed to the ground. After years caps got fixed to a state where they feel like capitals and super capitals again the nerfhammer. One level of Heavy Fighter skill gives what ? 5 % dmg bonus ? Are you serious with this ? Delve too OP, nerf Rorqs, nerf supers, nerf Goons. Do you realize that Delve is home to over 26000 characters and that might be the reason for your awesome economics report ? Do you think that the 5000 newbees we have all grind anoms in Nyxes ? I agree with most posters here. VNI and Ishtars are the last of the old AFK ships and you should make PVE interesting enough to drive people into actually doing it. Maybe if the SOV systems was not so big of a fail people would PVP more and CCP could have its precious ISK sink. I don't usualy rant like this, but this vicious circle must end.
Krieg Austern 53	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:48:05 - [533] - Quote This is a joke right? I am all for balancing the game, but just applying nerfs to a whole ship category in one hit, rather than one at a time until you see the result is just mind boggling. As if fighters needed to be hit more by NPCs. I agree that the game should discourage afk behaviour as much as possible, but using a carrier to rat is already a non stop key & clickfest, does it need to be even more?
Creecher Virpio Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:48:18 - [534] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: El'geherg wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy. You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can). I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. "The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen. There is nothing to listen to (other than the concern about PVP capability). People are being dumb about all this, mostly because they don't know enough not to. It's going to be ok. It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now. All of which is moot. Almost none of you are actually going to quit, almost all of you are going to benefit from this change in short order, and CCP is not going to pull back from this change no matter how many times ISD has to clean this thread of profanity (lol). TL;DR this is yet another 'blowing off steam' thread that CCP puts up to let you get it out of your system. Nothing you say is going to change anything. you being in shime thus likely never having flown a carrier or eve actually pvping says everything anyone needs to know about your opinion on the matter
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:48:51 - [535] - Quote Yes indeed especially that quote: " Patch notes for June 2017 release 2017-06-09 15:34 Patch notes for June 2017 release Released on Tuesday, June 13th, 2017 Features & Changes Balancing: Respawn cooldowns have been added to Nullsec Asteroid Cluster mining anomalies and Excavator drones have had their speed and yields reduced slightly. More details can be found in this forum thread. Fighters have had their damage reduced. More details can be found in this forum thread. Exploration: The chance of obtaining a random escalation from certain high-level combat anomalies has been reduced somewhat. The drop rate of pirate faction battleship blueprints has been reduced across several NPCs. "
Mute Karimar Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS. 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:49:57 - [536] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: [quote=Mute Karimar]Nope, just a professional ratter who has been down this road with CCP a million times. If I'm not worried, you shouldn't be either. Would you like to make an isk bet paying 4 or 5 months from now, I'm down for that. No. Cause you just cant pay in 4-5 months. Else I can just second El'gehergs statements.
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:50:11 - [537] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now you are right about that but how long does it take bear in mind the market still hasn't recovered from mineral rebalances that happened over 5 years ago with the tiericide will the game even be around in 5 years maybe not at this rate
Decres Estidal Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:50:12 - [538] - Quote Mad Bosnian wrote: I don't know what to say to this.... Same ** happened on Dust514 aka "nerf everything" and buff tanks which resulted to huge playerbase loss... Did you think about Chimera/Archon before doing this nerf? It's not like those ships had some decent dps, now it will be outdps-ed by a ***** Rattlesnake. I don't think I should continue to skill my Gallente Carrier lvl 5... This guy sees it, Archons will have terrible damage and the chimmy won't be much better.
evan mclean Power Shift 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:51:35 - [539] - Quote I buy like $200 to $300 in plex ever few week just so I have carrier's to **** around in say good buy to that if you make this change.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16073	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:51:36 - [540] - Quote Bron Ander Haltern wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: It only looks like a conspiracy to people too shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making. You crazy? I was, then I got out of TEST But more seriously, I just know how these things work. This isn't a nerf so much as a 'switch the place value comes from' as far as rating goes. Ratters in TEST living in Esoteria are going to be double happy because those crappy Centus Assemblies that sell for 50 mil because the loot is crap are goignt o start giving non-crap loot AND be more rare. Sure it means less instant liquid isk for a carrier/super ratter but escalation income (whether your sell or run them yourself) will more than compensate. And if they are right and the money supply decrease we all win even more as each isk in our wallet attains more value. It's going to be ok bro.

HuntedMaster HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:51:55 - [541] - Quote Panther X wrote: Do something to the isk scammers and market PVPers that have zero risk, sitting in Jita all day, manipulating markets, making uncounted billions with zero risk. Give the working man a break. hes got a point, NERF JITA
Valorex1 Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two 52	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:52:39 - [542] - Quote CCP if you are legit worried about isk faucets, then why don't you nerf drifter farming with citadels in wh space? You guys getting mad b/c 00 site running is closing the gap on wh site running?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3384	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:52:58 - [543] - Quote yogizh wrote: Maybe if the SOV systems was not so big of a fail people would PVP more and CCP could have its precious ISK sink. I don't usualy rant like this, but this vicious circle must end. PVP is a faucet, not a sink.
Anon Imity Deus-Ex-Machina Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:54:16 - [544] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img][img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Dear CCP are you changing too much the rules of this game? What is your real aim? You hired economists for what to change the rules of the game. I wonder if you really test the content you create before introducing it in-game. The rorqual nerf was really annoying and now carriers. Why don't you think about other solutions instead of changing the rules. The are surely other ways to economy stable without key changes. Weren't you aware of the change when you introduced excavator drones that people would immediately switch to use rorquals to mine? And now carriers and supers.... Very very disappointing
HuntedMaster HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:54:21 - [545] - Quote evan mclean wrote: I buy like $200 to $300 in plex ever few week just so I have carrier's to **** around in say good buy to that if you make this change. You are still doing that after the last nerf brah? get some high angle dreads, least you wont be defanged by a blackbird and 3 oracles.
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:54:33 - [546] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Bron Ander Haltern wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: It only looks like a conspiracy to people too shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making. You crazy? I was, then I got out of TEST But more seriously, I just know how these things work. This isn't a nerf so much as a 'switch the place value comes from' as far as rating goes. Ratters in TEST living in Esoteria are going to be double happy because those crappy Centus Assemblies that sell for 50 mil because the loot is crap are goignt o start giving non-crap loot AND be more rare. Sure it means less instant liquid isk for a carrier/super ratter but escalation income (whether your sell or run them yourself) will more than compensate. And if they are right and the money supply decrease we all win even more as each isk in our wallet attains more value. It's going to be ok bro. You do realize that there is more to EVE than ratting right? Some of us actually like to PvP in a PvP game. Weird, I know.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16073	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:54:43 - [547] - Quote Creecher Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: El'geherg wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy. You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can). I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again. "The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen. There is nothing to listen to (other than the concern about PVP capability). People are being dumb about all this, mostly because they don't know enough not to. It's going to be ok. It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now. All of which is moot. Almost none of you are actually going to quit, almost all of you are going to benefit from this change in short order, and CCP is not going to pull back from this change no matter how many times ISD has to clean this thread of profanity (lol). TL;DR this is yet another 'blowing off steam' thread that CCP puts up to let you get it out of your system. Nothing you say is going to change anything. you being in shime thus likely never having flown a carrier or eve actually pvping says everything anyone needs to know about your opinion on the matter You should be better than that. i'm going to be happy to evemail you this comment in 6 months.
Ray Essex The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:55:52 - [548] - Quote Good Job CCP. Nerfing everything just before the Summer Hole. Please **** up the T3 Cruiser rework aswell. Guess I will stop paying for my Accounts again
Affenmesserkampf Achsoo 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:56:45 - [549] - Quote Sandbox..... of course ..... completely wrong decision again to handle "not existing problems" if you bring a more expensive ship into ratting maybe you should make more isk/h ? living in 0.0 is maybe litle bit more dangerous? but hey ccp just do your thing and dont listen to your comunity......
Vetus Metallicus Blue Angels Inc. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 15:57:39 - [550] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: There is nothing to listen to (other than the concern about PVP capability). People are being dumb about all this, mostly because they don't know enough not to. It's going to be ok. It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now. All of which is moot. Almost none of you are actually going to quit, almost all of you are going to benefit from this change in short order, and CCP is not going to pull back from this change no matter how many times ISD has to clean this thread of profanity (lol). TL;DR this is yet another 'blowing off steam' thread that CCP puts up to let you get it out of your system. Nothing you say is going to change anything. No I'll be unsubscribing my accounts now. They will see a slope in player count after 4 upcoming nerfs now and not a single buff to anything and still not addressing ghost training or the horrendousness that is shooting citadels. Rorquals have been nerfed 3 times now, carriers are now entirely useless in PvE and PvP (a rattlesnake does as much dps as an archon or chimera now), t3c are getting nerfed as are pirate battleships, this is also an indirect nerf to ded site runners who now have less of them to run and will now have more competition so even if worth more when a bpc drops might not actually be any higher of an income. Also high end wormhole PvE is **** now compared to old days so you are left with the excitement that is high sec incursions for isk. Making isk in this game is boring as hell and CCP knows that. They have continuously removed things to shoot at in space doing actual PvE and now will be pushing plex even harder than before. I'm done, I'm really done and it's sad because I've loved this game for so many years and watched CCP make so many terrible decisions they are really very lucky they have 0 competition in this space right now.

Void Weaver R-isk-Y 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:32:15 - [551] - Quote Well at least I dont have to train fighters V anymore
Cyrene Shimaya KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:32:59 - [552] - Quote Naturally....it all comes down to goons abusing money making right? The rest of the alliances in the game are just dumb and they are not rorqual mining or carrier/super ratting! After years of having a 100% wandering style, PL decided to take AND HOLD some sov...imagine that! That whole huge part of eve galaxy in the drone regions, angel space beyond jump range from Curse and Sansha null beyond jump range of Stain....they are all sitting on their hands totally not building their cap/supercap fleets and/or making isk! It's just goons and their one and a half region that are the problem! Your (CCP's) mouths are full of "risk vs reward" but already hisec incursions and burners are making more than a maxed out carrier ratting in nullsec! So, why would anyone really want to go and live in nullsec? Big tidi fights are as much fun as watching paint turn dry. Where is the incentive to bring people out to play? Drone afk cruisers have been mentioned plenty of time in this thread so I'm not gonna bother much. Just copy/paste fighter control mechanics onto all drone boats and the isk generation via null ratting will be fixed. What I'd like to know is the direction this game is moving towards. You've cut off the arms and legs of smaller entities time and time again especially with citadels and their dps cap (impossible dread bombings) and insane reinforcement timers which has had an even worse effect on sov holding. The only thing less interesting than a 10% tidi fight in null, are citadel grinds. Content for veteran players (the backbone of the game) has not seen improvement for as long as I can remember, but is also now being nerfed PVE and PVP wise. Those bullshit pirate capitals are unattainable except you're a real no-lifer or a crazy multiboxer isk machine. While the latest iteration of those has left individual players and smaller entities out in the cold. Drifters were and remained a dead end. All realistic competition in WH space is gone. Lowsec was and remained more-less of a shithole and has not seen any love in a long time (relevant love, not that abusingly absurd faction warfare). Everyone is happy with fozziesov - just a quick glance over the forums clearly shows it! Dust514 sucks - money from EvE allocated into it - end result: epic fail. Walking in stations was a great idea overshadowed by the "monocle money grab" but was and remained a great idea where you recycled the failed World of Darkness MMO character engine - another failed project into which you poured a huge amount of money rather than improving EvE. Valkyrie is another failboat game that no one cares about and will suffer the same fate as Dust if it hasn't alreay - another money re-allocation away from EvE whose paying customers ended up funding instead of the game they pay for. Gunjack??? Dafuq is that anyway? With all that money re-allocation away from eve, it feels like the game is being maintained by 15 people in total (5 of which being trained monkey pressing the RNG solution button for the game's problems) and you keep fishing for attention with bullshit announcements that might get done some time in the next 10 years, if ever. You are also treating your paying customers in eve as if the will and time for grinding is an infinite resource, while in fact, that resource is very limited. So this latest more accounts drive-money grab attempt from you (which is ***** insulting btw) as well as your entire eve maintenance policy is gonna fail. You know why? Because this game and you (CCP) are not worth the effort! Eve is a moldy 14 year old game to which you sometimes pretend to be breathing life back into. All you will accomplish with this veteran screwing is less paying accounts. Why the would anyone with at least half of a working brain give you any MORE money for this ** you call "world's largest living work of science fiction"?
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 135	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:33:31 - [553] - Quote I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. No it was the sound of thousands of Goons unsubbing. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
xOmGx Order of Order SOLAR FLEET 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:33:33 - [554] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. CCP you are ******* faggots pls die
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:33:41 - [555] - Quote That is a dark Friday, and it has started so innocent I got up look at the evemon and frozen all my accounts stoped then it was only worse fighters changes and all now server crashed. Is it a serious bussiness or just a game?
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16074	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:34:04 - [556] - Quote xOmGx wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. CCP you are ******* faggots pls die This is helpful lol
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 135	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:35:50 - [557] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: xOmGx wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. CCP you are ******* faggots pls die This is helpful lol In b4 banhammer for being mean to CCP My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Raz Tanta Lisnave Mordus Angels 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:36:36 - [558] - Quote Well what i can say ... IS YOUR FAULT CCP. Why, was your fault to let the players have skill injectors and get the capitals more fast. A lot players spend a lot of time to get a carrier or super and now just because of your mistake we all gone pay for that , please .. This means , a lot of players gone give up from this game , players pay the game , and what gone happens now , what you CCP gone do when you ** your game to worst. There is players with some accounts gone give up simple like that... So STOP be stupid and STOP to the game please... I spend a lot of my time to get skills to the carrier and now just because of your mistake and economy like you say gone ** my game ... Well i thing is real time to stop play this game and back when you real do something for to players and not only for SOME players...
Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:36:38 - [559] - Quote 28 pages. have you figured out this is a dumb way of fixing a non problem? "PVE is too easy so we are going to nerf carriers/supers in a way that ALSO completely nerfs PVP capability" . . . . . . . . . when are you changing high sec incursions? or is that isk faucet ok? edit: also announcing this literally right before the patch seems ultra shady and like you knew it would be hated/trolled upon (as it should)
Sullen Decimus Polaris Rising The Bastion 73	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:37:34 - [560] - Quote Yes lets nerf carriers/supers more because it makes too much sense to be making money off your 3 bil investment. Particularly since a massive portion of the income shown is from people in AFKtars and AFKvexors which will literally be unaffected by this change. So lets make it more awful for people who actively rat and making it more profitable for people who do it completely passively. OH yeah and "leet" lowsec pvp'ers win again. We're almost back to the days when 2 scrubs in ships worth 500 mil total can tackle and kill a fully fit 3 bil carrier. CSM XI Member Twitter: Sullen_Decimus Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus

Sullen Decimus Polaris Rising The Bastion 73	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:38:22 - [561] - Quote Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous wrote: 28 pages. have you figured out this is a dumb way of fixing a non problem? "PVE is too easy so we are going to nerf carriers/supers in a way that ALSO completely nerfs PVP capability" . . . . . . . . . when are you changing high sec incursions? or is that isk faucet ok? This.... so ******* much CSM XI Member Twitter: Sullen_Decimus Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:39:01 - [562] - Quote Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous wrote: 28 pages. have you figured out this is a dumb way of fixing a non problem? "PVE is too easy so we are going to nerf carriers/supers in a way that ALSO completely nerfs PVP capability" . . . . . . . . . when are you changing high sec incursions? or is that isk faucet ok? Well... CCP Larrikin wrote: We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. I'm not saying they aren't wrong but they do havea reason to not be too concerned about the PvP ramification of a DPS nerf if they think they are currently too effective... Edit: HS incursion is also not that much of a faucet unless people don't use their LP. If they do, a lot of the ISK injected get burned back.
Texas Queens Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:39:03 - [563] - Quote Alot of people dont seem to realize that super ratting isn't a one account deal, you're running attest 4 other accounts while ratting and super ratting dosnt scale past one. Also you're going about this in the worse way possible, your nerfing the PVE ability of carriers and supers while also nefing the PVP ability of carriers and supers in a already dread and titan heavy meta, fighters are easy to defang because of the tiny fighter bay and a SOLO ewar fig can lock down a supers worth of fighters.
Ringo Caldari The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:40:11 - [564] - Quote You Guys know the real reason behind this right? Why let players pay for game time with isk they grind for hours upon hours when we can reduce the income and make it less and less possible for players to play without having to dish out the ol'credit card to buy plex. CCP - where we don't really give a **** about your in game economy as long as you line our pockets
Krieg Austern 54	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:41:56 - [565] - Quote Here's an idea CCP... see those huge arse graphs that are far over the average of the other regions? How about you balance the regions a bit? You know how many players roughly operate in the areas, so if one area has a disproportionate level of isk/hour from bounties, tone down the site spawn rate there. Hell why not go all adventurous and make a base site spawn rate per region, and then rotate any additional spawns over different regions over time. Then those regions with hardly any activity in them might suddenly get an influx of players chasing the sites.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:42:23 - [566] - Quote Ringo Caldari wrote: You Guys know the real reason behind this right? Why let players pay for game time with isk they grind for hours upon hours when we can reduce the income and make it less and less possible for players to play without having to dish out the ol'credit card to buy plex. CCP - where we don't really give a **** about your in game economy as long as you line our pockets Why would they do that when every single account subbed to the game with PLEX give them more money than an account subbed directly via CC?
Honor Ex Orange Leeuw Corporation Serrice Council. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:43:07 - [567] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: xOmGx wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. CCP you are ******* faggots pls die This is helpful lol +1 TY CCP
ivona fly Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 39	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:43:33 - [568] - Quote Just add CAPITAL MISSILE DEFENSE SENTRY and CAPITAL NEUTRALISER SENTRY to the missions borrow some code from the citadels Stats _________________________ Hitpoints : really Stronk Damage : 100k per volley Range : Forever _________________________ only targets captial ships or has 99% reduction in effects to non capital ships Add / subtract the rate of fire for balance Now carriers are not gimped for PvP!!!
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 34940	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:44:46 - [569] - Quote Y u no nerf bounties? From where all those ISKs are printed anyway? ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
McBorsk Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation 70	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:44:51 - [570] - Quote Where's the finger emote when you need it? ....................../-¦-»/) ....................,/-»../ .................../..../ ............./-¦-»/'...'/-¦-»-»`-+-+ ........../'/.../..../......./-¿-»\ ........('(...-¦...-¦.... -»~/'...') .........\.................'...../ ..........''...\.......... _.-+-¦ ............\..............( ..............\.............\... That will have to do, for now.

Snezana Snezic Stvarno losi momci Brothers in Arms Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:44:59 - [571] - Quote You still want to nerf Null sec? Next attack could be fatal
Vitarius Solarius Facehoof Out of Sight. 88	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:45:42 - [572] - Quote Can i SD mah Hel now? -ö-+-ü-é-¦-¦-+-Å-Ä -¦-+-+-î, -¦-+-Ç-+-¦-+.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:46:30 - [573] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Y u no nerf bounties? From where all those ISKs are printed anyway? Because subcap ratters don't, according to CCP, need a nerf.
Ringo Caldari The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:47:15 - [574] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Ringo Caldari wrote: You Guys know the real reason behind this right? Why let players pay for game time with isk they grind for hours upon hours when we can reduce the income and make it less and less possible for players to play without having to dish out the ol'credit card to buy plex. CCP - where we don't really give a **** about your in game economy as long as you line our pockets Why would they do that when every single account subbed to the game with PLEX give them more money than an account subbed directly via CC? Not sure I follow, If you buy plex with IRL money yea, but I can put In time and effort to rat and make isk to pay for my accounts, ergo, no money from my irl wallet to ccp.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16075	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:47:56 - [575] - Quote ivona fly wrote: Just add CAPITAL MISSILE DEFENSE SENTRY and CAPITAL NEUTRALISER SENTRY to the missions borrow some code from the citadels Stats _________________________ Hitpoints : really Stronk Damage : 100k per volley Range : Forever _________________________ only targets captial ships or has 99% reduction in effects to non capital ships Add / subtract the rate of fire for balance Now carriers are not gimped for PvP!!! This is about the only reasonable counter proposal I've seen. Too bad it will be drowned out by all the "U SUK CCP" being posted ...
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:48:29 - [576] - Quote its beyond time ccp just remove the security status in null-sec since this impacts everyone regionally. also not all null-sec bounties are the same so you need to stop that bullcrap thinking its an isk faucet for everyone when in fact it isn't.. remove TRU-SEC and bring that to null sec systems.. that's where you imbalanced the income.. Provi for instance is the worst place to earn an income as our pilots struggle to make enough to afford their ships.. this is the change that's needed.. you need to balance out the security system beyond anything else than to keep backtracking and breaking capitals.. this is terrible balance as yet you've proved once again that you have no idea what you're doing when it comes to having a fully balanced game. Give us Tru-sec.. these players are not some high-sec carebear dwellers.. they have taken the risk and dove straight into the real game in eve online.. the null sec game and that's how ALL of NEW SHOULD BE PLAYING... but of course we know you wont nerf that high-sec incursion income.. oh no no no.. you wont dare hurt those guys.. Carriers and Super's deserve the love just as much as the rorqual and you have failed back to back on both with these nerf's.. this is totally pathetic.. you need to send this to Seagull cause its obvious she broke her spreadsheet and now filling our socks up with coal.. SHAME on you CCP SHAME SHAME SHAME!
Valiant Swart Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:48:52 - [577] - Quote so ccp nerfing all ways to make isk and have cut down plex does this mean that ccp wants to sell more plex it seems this way to me. nerf ** have the server drop so people lose ** because of it brilliant ccp
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:49:13 - [578] - Quote Ringo Caldari wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Ringo Caldari wrote: You Guys know the real reason behind this right? Why let players pay for game time with isk they grind for hours upon hours when we can reduce the income and make it less and less possible for players to play without having to dish out the ol'credit card to buy plex. CCP - where we don't really give a **** about your in game economy as long as you line our pockets Why would they do that when every single account subbed to the game with PLEX give them more money than an account subbed directly via CC? Not sure I follow, If you buy plex with IRL money yea, but I can put In time and effort to rat and make isk to pay for my accounts, ergo, no money from my irl wallet to ccp. Where is the PLEX you buy on the market coming from? CCP does not give a damn who's money it is as long as it become an income for them. It's still more money for them at the end of the day.
Ganja Wheels The Cynosural Sisters Really Strong Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:49:15 - [579] - Quote i'm sure all your customers, who have just spent real money on injectors and plex to fly carriers and supers, will happily spend more money injecting other ships now you have ruined these. Plan worked CCP Why would anyone commit a 2-3 bill carrier, when a battleship will do similar damage for a lower price? This is an unnecessary and badly thought out nerf
Revival Lolloking Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:50:20 - [580] - Quote But honestly ... are you crazy? Do you want mass abandonment by the players of this game? There are no words ... convince yourself that you are making a mad mistake!!!! Do not mix the abnormal mining of some regions with the carrier ratting ... there are two different things you have to solve in different ways !!!

Dawny Star Control-Space DARKNESS. 31	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:50:59 - [581] - Quote Ok to offer a slightly different suggestion to lowering our perceived mountains of ISK. Give us a reason to PVP again. Null sec wars are a huge ISK sink, they create lots of player content, generate headlines, and gave alliances a reason to be competitive with each other. I have more ISK than I used to because I used to spend a lot more time invading/defending Sov. I used to enjoy it too. We blew much more **** up when we was able to travel. One of the reasons I can earn a lot more ISK these days by the way is Fatigue/Jump range. I can rat really quite safely these days, I'm more concerned about wormholers when ratting than I am of the biggest null sec pvp alliances in EvE. Why? Because I know as well as they do that to avoid a day or more of fatigue it takes 2-3 hours to cross the region I live in in a carrier/dread. If you have to kill super/carrier income because all the above is not up for discussion than ffs please just lower rat bounties instead. My super is not that bloody OP.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:52:18 - [582] - Quote Ebony Texas wrote: but of course we know you wont nerf that high-sec incursion income.. oh no no no.. you wont dare hurt those guys.. Can't wait for everyone to jump on that gravy train only to see how cancer it actually is because even with 3 spawn active, you will never really have more than 9 fleet running at the same time in HS.
Lightning Q Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:53:53 - [583] - Quote Ellowah Since I've been ratting in a carrier for a few weeks now, I can see that you indeed can make a ton of isk this way. And this is indeed a broken mechanic in a certain way. The security and endless ammount of sites is something I found odd, especially compared to HS It's not because you mine a random spawned jaspet site in HS that you get an instant new one However nerfing carriers and supers is not going to change anything ! well except a pvp nerf for them Whoever makes these decisions should know by now PEOPLE ADAPT so nerfing 1 or 2 specific types of ships WILL NOT WORK in the long run Even if you decide to nerf something for a good reason 5% 10% increments I can get but 30% in one go???????? So this means the ship also becommes 30% cheaper right? Since it's basicly a worthless piece of junk now Maybe every1 will start smartbomin their sites with their alt armies, who knows Instead of a carrier pilot who actually has to do stuff to make this isk and keep his fighters moving How about compare isk gained vs the actual actions per minute the account is doing? gues who's going to be at the bottem :p Since this is what EVE strives for right? ACTIVE gameplay? I find it hard to believe you are all sitting on this pile of market/isk info even with the monthly economic dev blogs and this is what commes out of it ? One suggestion, since EVERY1 is ratting alone and I want to do stuff with my friends how about a new type of site which spawns random and can/HAS to be run with multiple people instead of solo. (in capitals ofc) Making some use of these new force auxilaries which only undock for pvp It's THE biggest reason I prefer WH's over anything else in EVE more having to group up to get stuff done While still keeping the scale of things relativly small And 4 days in advance? rly? it's not like you train for caps in 4 days RLY bad call CCP Kind Regards, LQ
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:54:01 - [584] - Quote Dawny Star wrote: Give us a reason to PVP again. Null sec wars are a huge ISK sink, they create lots of player content, generate headlines, and gave alliances a reason to be competitive with each other. Null sec wars are not an ISK sink. They never are and probably never will be.
PkControl Cuervos Imperiales Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:54:03 - [585] - Quote Nice! you ** the carriers again, the last nerf (fighter radius increase) convert the fighters to Crystal Fighters, uselles in PvP, and now you -+-+-+holes increase the chance to hit +15% and reduce the damage??? Why the i train since 2006 my Character to all super skills to 5 if i cant use it more in PVP or PVE? What the hell is your problem?! now you cant kill another ships if they hotdrop you! and your Fighters insta-pop if you try use it to defend yourself, the same HP and Resistances but MANY less damage and the ***** Crystal fighters... i own a Super or a rookie ship now?!?!?! This game is dying and you PRESS MORE To KICK more players from EvE?!!?!? what type of idiots you have in your meetings when you launch that type nefings?!?!?
Zuri Sae Kouyama Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:54:36 - [586] - Quote The damage nerfs are too high. If you at the same time would give fighters ECM immunity or at least introduce a new mid slot module that increases ECM resistance of fighters, together with the damage nerf, would be justifiable the damage reduction. Only reason carriers are strong in pvp at the moment are numbers, because we can't field them alone anymore as it would just get jammed out, by a t1 frigate, and die. The real solution would be to nerf bounty payouts per NPC, or even better the speed of VNIs and Ishtars. Or you could change the sov system to something that doesn't allow sov to be taken in interceptor fleets so that people would actually risk losing some ISK when fighting for sov.
Anne Bonnay Gargamels Lair 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:55:05 - [587] - Quote Pretty much all the points that come to mind have be listed throughout this thread After all the nerfs to high sp/isk intensive isk generation it is finally time for me to unsub Great Job CCP, Keep killing EVE!!
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16075	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:55:14 - [588] - Quote I'll say again, all the accusations of "omg CCP just wants me to buy plex" are stupid. If CCP wanted you to buy plex theiy'd BUFF fighters so you can generate isk easier to buy plex. Plex is money in the bank for CCP
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 50	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:55:30 - [589] - Quote Ganja Wheels wrote: i'm sure all your customers, who have just spent real money on injectors and plex to fly carriers and supers This.
Driczinella Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:55:34 - [590] - Quote JITA BURN!!!!!

Crash 888 TRINTEX 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:57:28 - [591] - Quote Give children candy and snatch it away again, they'll cry. Best not to give it to them in the first place
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 42	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:58:09 - [592] - Quote Sapphire Voice wrote: Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. You got payed by CCP or what?)))) Not really I just enjoy the salt and tears when they nerf stuff. The first round of rorqual nerfs everyone was up in arms threatening to sell all their rorquals, and unsub accounts. Its a big joke. Everyone will calm down in a week go back to whatever they were doing and adjust.
Nut Cullet Diversity 101 The Bastard Cartel 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:58:53 - [593] - Quote Great changes , although i feel you should reduce the figers by 40%
Onslaughtor Phoenix Naval Operations Arataka Research Consortium 175	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:59:05 - [594] - Quote Knowing some of the offenders I agree with the idea of the nerf. How ever a 20% reduction in damage for the fighters on a normal carrier is painful in PvP. So might I suggest a few gives to the take so that PvPing is still worthwhile in these ships. Change the damage nerf to 15% and open up the fighter bays to support 3 support squadrens. This way carrier pilots still have a bit more teeth in PvP and can actually put thier carriers support fighter bonuses to work in combat, as of right now only the web and point fighters are really used.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3387	Posted - 2017.06.09 16:59:22 - [595] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I'll say again, all the accusations of "omg CCP just wants me to buy plex" are stupid. If CCP wanted you to buy plex theiy'd BUFF fighters so you can generate isk easier to buy plex. Plex is money in the bank for CCP Their point of view doesn't even make sense if you forget about that. "CCP want us to buy more PLEX" is stupid when you are crying about nerf to player income. Who the **** is gonna buy your PLEX if player income is so god damn nerfed anyway?
Mace Window C5 Flight The Serenity Initiative 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:00:59 - [596] - Quote Well this f ing sucks a load of nuts
jkeegs Airuta Something Something Darkside. Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:01:11 - [597] - Quote https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/305325710652997633/322757174180970496/1QfR_vBECntAao5JV1AMYpHTekp33t8kGVmoHXG21t8.jpg
Birabanor PWT0 Fleet Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:01:22 - [598] - Quote Lucy Callagan wrote: To all the people complaining that : "I can't plex my account anymore, ccp is so greedy they want me to pay it with RL money" Don't you understant that all the plexes that are in the game have been bought on CCP's website and therefore paying the sub in plex or RL money makes no difference to ccp ? Now i wonder if CCP is aware of that. All the TIME we spent on those capital skills, drone skills hulls, etc.... Nerfed... i feel like i being robbed cuse of curse you train the high end ships and modules expecting something for your dedication, u need about a year to get those skills in decent lvls and just because some retards feel like we are making insane amounts of isk you want to nerf them? yes u can make a good isk and is in line with the time spent doing PVE. but maybe ure missing that not everyone who plays eve are in school or doing nothing, most the people that i know in game are hardworkers in rl, who want to spend time having fun not getting another job grinding isk to buy stuff nor be forced to pay plexes as a pay to win sandboxgame. we already did the learning courve having fun with frigates, cruisers battleships, now after a long time we can handle capitalships and we want to enjoy them and the reward that comes with it, WE EARN THAT .
Sharnhorst von Deathwish STK Scientific The Initiative. 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:01:55 - [599] - Quote Guys.. guys.. guys.. and gals. This isn't the feedback center where they adapt and change roll out plans. This is where they come to let you know about the changes coming and give you any feedback they have. In Soviet CCP feedback only rolls one way. But don't worry. Next will be HAW dps on dreads. Then all will be right in the world with only VNIs, Ishtars, and SP extractor farms will be only acceptable income source.
Alexander Cliovelle Special Space Cookies The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:02:03 - [600] - Quote Seriously? I mean give them aggro sure, but 30% are u kidding. PVP dead except as neuting platform. Could have gone with better tracking for npc, or lower bounty but no Seriously with all the changes it seems u want everyone in rorquals, because they still are op as **** and with the changes to piratebs u may even buff demand so it is getting even better. I seriously wonder whether CSM did say anything against that

Vitarius Solarius Facehoof Out of Sight. 89	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:02:08 - [601] - Quote Nut Cullet wrote: Great changes , although i feel you should reduce the figers by 40% And remove all caps cuz they're needless anymore. -ö-+-ü-é-¦-¦-+-Å-Ä -¦-+-+-î, -¦-+-Ç-+-¦-+.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:03:08 - [602] - Quote How CCP works nowdays: 1.Bring new players in with f2p who will potentially subscribe. 2.Kill old players who can afford to buy plex ingame. Good job CCP.
Dawny Star Control-Space DARKNESS. 31	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:03:12 - [603] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Dawny Star wrote: Give us a reason to PVP again. Null sec wars are a huge ISK sink, they create lots of player content, generate headlines, and gave alliances a reason to be competitive with each other. Null sec wars are not an ISK sink. They never are and probably never will be. Whilst I think I see where your going to go with this, let me ask a couple of questions. How much ratting did goons do per day when EvE descended on Deklien? Whilst that's not an ISK sink as such, it certainly hinders ISK generation for the average line member no? Also battles like B-R are quite literally an ISK sink, trillions of iSK in ships instantly removed from the game. Whilst not an ISK to players with a decent Alliance SRP program that again is still ISK being moved out of existence. Null Sec Wars in EVE do generate incomes for some, but by and large they slow/lower income at line member level.
Stunt Anime Masters 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:03:15 - [604] - Quote Have you considered making PVE less safe at all? I would like the devs to take out small gangs from jita and hit up every major power bloc ratting areas.
Jonathon Rodriguez SUNDER. Clouds Of War 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:03:35 - [605] - Quote Carriers are borderline useless as is, they really don't need to be hit with the nerf bat again, all this will do is cripple smaller groups who have maybe 2-5 of these things. IF such a change was to be put in place, I would hope material costs on constructing carriers and fighters will also get nerfed because at this point there would be no point in operating them at all.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16076	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:03:43 - [606] - Quote Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Sapphire Voice wrote: Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote: Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game. There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income. Well done ccp. You got payed by CCP or what?)))) Not really I just enjoy the salt and tears when they nerf stuff. The first round of rorqual nerfs everyone was up in arms threatening to sell all their rorquals, and unsub accounts. Its a big joke. Everyone will calm down in a week go back to whatever they were doing and adjust. Exactly, which is why I call these "oppurtunity to blow off some steam" threads. Once everybody takes their carrier/super to rat and find out it's actually not that much of a change (or someone pops up a youtube video showing some clever way around it all) they will act like they never lost their minds of a forum. Like you say, it happens EVERY time there is a significant change that affects income, pvp ability or somehow threats something that have 'invested' in. It's the stock human response to the idea of loss, lol some of these mofos are going through stages of grief
McBorsk Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation 71	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:04:22 - [607] - Quote Will you be refunding carrier BPO's? I've got 3, with months and months of research on them.
Ida Aurlien HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 88	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:04:25 - [608] - Quote 1 you train for say cruisers they nerf them 2 you train pi they change it 3 you train for pirate ships they change them 4 you train for logi they change it 5 you train for whatever they change it and add more to get to the same level 6 you train carriers They change it 7 you train fighters they change it and add new skills 8 you train t3's they nerf them My thoughts are if your building a game with a base of people you would think some add ons and deletes threw time but a constant change is frustrating. You just get to a point where you feel good with the game and you kill it or destroy it. I had been feeling tired of the game on a personal level. but was ok with continually subbing gonna start getting ready to call it what it is tho. As this never ends and 20% nerf when a couple cruisers can kill a carrier. something is wrong with this picture. That's like being able to bump kill a freighter with a cat ....stupid.. game you would think has some parameters that would fit like frigates 2 to kill a cruiser or a bs maybe 4 to kill etc but when you can have more dps from a bs than a carrier it does not fit, sorry. I realize this is a game but when you constantly change the Bar or parameters you destroy the goal and game. good job ccp you have made my mind up for me
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:05:29 - [609] - Quote Ida Aurlien wrote: 1 you train for say cruisers they nerf them 2 you train pi they change it 3 you train for pirate ships they change them 4 you train for logi they change it 5 you train for whatever they change it and add more to get to the same level 6 you train carriers They change it 7 you train fighters they change it and add new skills 8 you train t3's they nerf them My thoughts are if your building a game with a base of people you would think some add ons and deletes threw time but a constant change is frustrating. You just get to a point where you feel good with the game and you kill it or destroy it. I had been feeling tired of the game on a personal level. but was ok with continually subbing gonna start getting ready to call it what it is tho. As this never ends and 20% nerf when a couple cruisers can kill a carrier. something is wrong with this picture. That's like being able to bump kill a freighter with a cat ....stupid.. game you would think has some parameters that would fit like frigates 2 to kill a cruiser or a bs maybe 4 to kill etc but when you can have more dps from a bs than a carrier it does not fit, sorry. I realize this is a game but when you constantly change the Bar or parameters you destroy the goal and game. good job ccp you have made my mind up for me Then dont train what is currently BEST and objectivly OP. It will get nerfed. However, PVP damage of carriers should NOT be nerfed, thats for sure.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3387	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:06:15 - [610] - Quote Dawny Star wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Dawny Star wrote: Give us a reason to PVP again. Null sec wars are a huge ISK sink, they create lots of player content, generate headlines, and gave alliances a reason to be competitive with each other. Null sec wars are not an ISK sink. They never are and probably never will be. Whilst I think I see where your going to go with this, let me ask a couple of questions. How much ratting did goons do per day when EvE descended on Deklien? Whilst that's not an ISK sink as such, it certainly hinders ISK generation for the average line member no? Also battles like B-R are quite literally an ISK sink, trillions of iSK in ships instantly removed from the game. Whilst not an ISK to players with a decent Alliance SRP program that again is still ISK being moved out of existence. Null Sec Wars in EVE do generate incomes for some, but by and large they slow/lower income at line member level. Do you know what an ISK sink is? Every ship exploding in EVE is a faucet.

Manicsar The Study of Wumbology Test Alliance Please Ignore 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:07:20 - [611] - Quote Since I just wasted all the time training carrier skill can I get a refund for those skills?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:07:50 - [612] - Quote Ida Aurlien wrote: 1 you train for say cruisers they nerf them 2 you train pi they change it 3 you train for pirate ships they change them 4 you train for logi they change it 5 you train for whatever they change it and add more to get to the same level 6 you train carriers They change it 7 you train fighters they change it and add new skills 8 you train t3's they nerf them My thoughts are if your building a game with a base of people you would think some add ons and deletes threw time but a constant change is frustrating. You just get to a point where you feel good with the game and you kill it or destroy it. I had been feeling tired of the game on a personal level. but was ok with continually subbing gonna start getting ready to call it what it is tho. As this never ends and 20% nerf when a couple cruisers can kill a carrier. something is wrong with this picture. That's like being able to bump kill a freighter with a cat ....stupid.. game you would think has some parameters that would fit like frigates 2 to kill a cruiser or a bs maybe 4 to kill etc but when you can have more dps from a bs than a carrier it does not fit, sorry. I realize this is a game but when you constantly change the Bar or parameters you destroy the goal and game. good job ccp you have made my mind up for me TLDR : I follow the FOTM and get nerfed. WTF did you expect?
Dug Zero Given 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:08:16 - [613] - Quote So the issue is with null sec, so why are you nurfing a ship class? You already have a solution, just take the code that governs pi and apply it to null sec bounties. Boom you now have power blocks moving for the higher ticks, which is both risky and content creating. But you won't because it's coming clear CCP treats play made ideas the same as toilet paper. The changes this year are the reason I play other games more and more.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:08:48 - [614] - Quote Manicsar wrote: Since I just wasted all the time training carrier skill can I get a refund for those skills? Skills still have a use in game so no refund is the usual CCP response. Your carrier skill would get refunded only if carriers were deleted from the game.
Faruzen en Divalone Black Wings Syndicate 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:08:48 - [615] - Quote People should really learn something about game economy. Ship destryed actually generates ISK, its not ISK sink. Real ISK sinks are not obvious. Real ISK sinks are where ISK dissapears to the system: Transaction Tax Ship Repair LP store ISK prices Expired insurances etc...
krakinette ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:09:00 - [616] - Quote You nerf rorqual you nerf carrier you nerfs supercarriers you nerf titans !! We see a big cap figth per year now i think we dont see nothing. You make money in every game if player dont make money you lose your players!! Now We only see one things CCP you just want that all players PAY CASH!! You will loose all your player and is not your free game that is not a free game because a knew player cant do nothing with this account oh yes he can scamm !!!
Driczinella Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:09:14 - [617] - Quote Well they are going full speed over the edge of a cliff and do nothing to stop the car... they keep accelerating... nice job ccp... JITA BURN!!!!!!
Jefrotee Hostile Phoenix Rising Industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:09:21 - [618] - Quote So, what's the point of me training for so long to fly/fit a carrier? No thanks. It's now a waste of time to know that something that takes so long to fly/fit isn't really worth your time at all. Cut the training time by 50%, cost cut by 30% and I could see it being reasonable. If I helped you, please "Like" my posts. -áxD
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16076	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:10:23 - [619] - Quote Dug wrote: So the issue is with null sec, so why are you nurfing a ship class? You already have a solution, just take the code that governs pi and apply it to null sec bounties. Boom you now have power blocks moving for the higher ticks, which is both risky and content creating. But you won't because it's coming clear CCP treats play made ideas the same as toilet paper. The changes this year are the reason I play other games more and more. No one moves for 'higher ticks'. It's been tried before. Quote: Expected consequences Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec Coalitions will be marginally less stable Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places) That didn't happen. Because no one moves for ticks.
Frosty Indica Au moku 'au wa'a 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:10:53 - [620] - Quote If it makes goonswarm cry, its a good move by ccp. You guys are great entertainment. Did you bother to read about this isk "hose" only benifiting a few players ? You dont cry a single tear when they makes changes to make being a pirate easier, but if they nurf your big shinny isk hose, you act like the game is about to end. Please quit now, less goons=the world a better place.

Lina Miaoke The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 114	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:11:10 - [621] - Quote Amusing... nerfing our carrier after expecting us to pay 695 plex for a carrier skin.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16076	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:12:35 - [622] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Manicsar wrote: Since I just wasted all the time training carrier skill can I get a refund for those skills? Skills still have a use in game so no refund is the usual CCP response. Your carrier skill would get refunded only if carriers were deleted from the game. That's another one of those funny responses. It's like saying "I have made billions and billions of isk with these skills and they are useful for other things. but i expect a refund because I'm pissed at a change you made"!
Actus Reyus SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:12:58 - [623] - Quote Well, I put well over a hundred of hours into getting myself a supercarrier built, it comes out in 2 days and now its being nerfed into the ground. Definitely not re-upping
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:13:04 - [624] - Quote I dont post much here and im ** at typing but let me get this strait. a supers fighters can be jamed by 2 t1 frigs all day long yet we are the op ones i spent years and real money and isk to get perfect super skills and now ur like ** you. becuase what u cant make good pve?! well im not raging im just letting you know that i will be unsubscribing 10 accounts that i pay for on a yearly basis. and if i am im sure more will be too so i hope that either A hurts ur bottom line or B teaches u not to screw the people that kept u running when u didnt have know players coming in at large enough numbers to pay ur bills.
ValhallaCCB Kenshin. DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:13:11 - [625] - Quote They won't change this at all, but I feel like many of us; these changes are distasteful.
Kassimila Macabre Votum Northern Coalition. 56	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:14:19 - [626] - Quote I'm sure no one from CCP will actually read this thread, but this is not how you solve this problem. Here is exactly how you solve the issue that is null sec isk printing issue. Step #1 . Remove bounties, replace with tags/blue loot/etc that is sold to NPCs for the same value. TADA! Now people actually have to stop and loot the sites. Or use MTUs which other players can come in and blow up/take! This will slow down peoples overall income generation as having to actual interact with the wrecks instead of being able to just churn and burn sites. This change will allow small roaming gangs to actually takes things away from people that just warp out and dock when you hit local. Probe down MTU = Profit. Step #2. Remove ESS's from the game. Instant 5% isk generation reduction. Step #3. Increase sales tax to generate more isk sink. Notice how these changes deal with the actual economy instead of nerfing a particular ship type, that is instantly defeated by a single falcon.
Vanguard Andromedus Unleashed' Fury The Initiative. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:15:09 - [627] - Quote Really CCP? Lets make the carriers OP. Oh lets nerf them a shitload of times now! I am almost maxed in my carrier, which took a shitload of time to do, and now you nerf it, AGAIN. #FuCCP
Boaty McBoaten The Ends Justify The Memes Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:15:13 - [628] - Quote So I understand the need for the rebalance, that makes sense. B BUT why are you doing three major rebalances for income in the same patch?
Texas Queens Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:16:01 - [629] - Quote Frosty Indica wrote: If it makes goonswarm cry, its a good move by ccp. You guys are great entertainment. Did you bother to read about this isk "hose" only benifiting a few players ? You dont cry a single tear when they makes changes to make being a pirate easier, but if they nurf your big shinny isk hose, you act like the game is about to end. Please quit now, less goons=the world a better place. Your posting is bad and you should feel bad.
HankMurphy Pelennor Guard 36	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:17:08 - [630] - Quote I rarely post here anymore. But I'll share my tears Protip: when your subtle balance action has a number like THIRTY PERCENT associated with it, you have no idea what you're doing. You're not balancing, you're unintelligently overreacting to a problem you don't seem to understand (or care to as is probably the case). Yeah so, my tears: I don't even have a carrier, though I had just trained Minnie carrier V (yes, I was going to join a 0.0 crew this summer and try to get into caps more, pvp and pve) Do I get those skillpoints back? HAHAHA no, instead i get salt in the wound: CCP ads continue to beat me over the head asking me to shell out $$ on top of my sub for more injectors and plex and all the while watching others systematically game their broken systems for countless free billions and SP Does anyone think this isn't completely obvious by the way? Just when they make plex more granular (to nickle and dime further), they turn around days later and say "HEY! people are making too much isk by playing the game, this FAUCET is a huge problem (for our microtransactions)" yeah, we get it, you want us to microtransaction everything and making any income in the game is now hurting your bottom line (we all saw this coming btw). Wow. I wish i could charge back the money i spent on this last sale. What a complete screw-you to your players. Even if it's not intended, you can't possibly not see that is how it would be received. I get it, I am and always have been a complete idiot for trying to play this game by the rules. I identified a successful gameplay approach and planned to pursue it (FOTM chasing) and I'm getting punished for that. Ok, whatev. But when your "fotm chasing" requires MONTHS of training, it seems more like being punished for making any long term plans only to have ccp laugh and yank the carpet out from under me with a new "balance" approach. I have some balance suggestions for you: -delete yourself -OR you can try to come up with intelligent solutions to your problems without just smashing entire ship lineups (the entire capital ship paradigm tbh) with a hammer and hoping your players don't leave.

shwing shwing Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:18:50 - [631] - Quote While I agree that carriers/supercarriers are too powerful in pvp, I don't believe they are the root of the ISK faucet from nullsec PVE. The vast amount of anoms created by the ihub upgrade mechanics, which constantly respawn as they are finished, are where your isk faucet is. Scale it back, reduce the number of anoms created and increase the time for them to respawn. Send people back to the actual asteroid belts to rat. Make alliances actually use all this space they're conquering. Get rid of 20-30 jumps of completely empty nullsec space.
Ganja Wheels The Cynosural Sisters Really Strong Alliance 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:18:54 - [632] - Quote I agree carriers and supers earn far to much isk when ratting But I don't rat in them anymore, I only personally care about the pvp application. If less people rat in them, or less people fly them, then there are less for pvp'ers to hunt. If these carriers all switch to battleships or ishtars instead, they suddenly aren't very appealing to hunt as they aren't worth as much. Content dries off, people get bored and unsub. These changes are fine for big alliances, they just field 30% more ships to make up for the reduction. It's the little people that it hurts, the small groups brawling in low sec, the ones who don't care abut ratting bounties
Alyen Killer WALLTREIPERS The Initiative. 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:18:55 - [633] - Quote CCP NO TEN+ëIS NI PUTA IDEA, solo digo eso...
Duche Penken Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:19:38 - [634] - Quote Person made this changes have some problems with head. Now Carrier will be weaker than Battleship. What is wrong with you guys, are you ready to close this game, is that your goal?
Memphis Baas 2988	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:21:32 - [635] - Quote CCP: "NPC bounties inject too much ISK into the economy, so let's leave bounties alone and nerf carriers and supers into oblivion." Seriously, you're generating memes here, CCP, for smart thinking.
Ashley Miston Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:21:35 - [636] - Quote As you love to make spreadheet about in game economy etc. i'd like to see a spreadheet with how many players canceled their subscription today lol....
Tara Read Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 977	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:22:07 - [637] - Quote So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice.
Eli Nalemir Dynamic Integrated Solutions Domain Research and Mining Inst. 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:22:51 - [638] - Quote ACTIV PLAYERS vs AFK PLAYERS AFK PLAYERS WIN by KO (please ccp go fried ur new trainee in ur office thx)
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1513	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:22:53 - [639] - Quote #makeblopshotdroppingoncarriersgreatagain I like. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Cricri Amatin El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 29	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:23:00 - [640] - Quote What ever you do, do not make eve fun!

Hiashi Yenzyne Cruisers Crew Badfellas Inc. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:23:22 - [641] - Quote I was hoping that with what they were doing with Pirate battleships that maybe they would think to revitalize HACs and certain T1 battleships that rarely get used in the meta anymore. But nope! Now im pretty sure they will find a way to nerf HACs again since the Cerberus is still used a fair amount, and because the Ishtar is used in ratting so much to the point of being more preferable then say... a rattlesnake or a Dominix, who knows.
Matt McDefault Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:23:32 - [642] - Quote Creecher Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it. My prediction was CCP would nerf individual PVE streams such as Rorquals and Super ratting which are some of the highest income streams for individual players and had been for years. What CCP fails to realize is that people don't pve for fun in high end groups, we pve to pay for our PVP. When you lose a doctrine ship or a dread or something of that nature in a big brawl (that CCP sort of markets to Bright eyed new players who they pray have a Credit Card and will inject and buy Plex to reach a level veteran player have) You naturally need to replace it. What CCP fails to realize is in their greed ridden pay to win system of BUY PLEX NOW and ridding Eve of it's pve streams gradually is that now you are truly killing content for players. You give us less targets to hunt, you give us less big ships to destroy because dumb people like to fly big shiny ships, and you further alienate the concepts talked about during the release of Citadel when Supers and Titans were reworked and retooled to give then a new role with very big nerfs to hp and ewar immunity. Odd how this isn't a dev post on the PvP ability of such ships but rather a economc view. Eve has trillions of isk in it's economy and has for over a decade. Why now the sudden shift towards killing individual income streams? Because all CCP wants is for you to buy Plex with real money period. First they'll nerf Rorquals and Supers. Then theyll nerf anom repawns. Then they make it where capitals cannot run anoms or level 5 missions and instead encourage "group" pve like those stupid Blood Raider sites that can be ran in frigates as "high end pve" as a way to finally kill individual income. Welcome to the new Eve. Better whip out that credit card. FYI CCP I've always paid for my 7 accounts with actual money. I hate the idea of having to pve for my subscription and my pve time is spent fueling my PvP for PL and my own endeavours. Keep this up and I think a few of us will just get so sick of the EA like way this game is headed and go find something else to play. Which is pretty sad. Don't make us buy Plex to PvP. not empty quoting. I understand that you dont want unlimited isk faucets, but you're doing it the wrong way. if you want to limit rorqual mining, then find a way to make it ***** aids to multibox, like supercarrier ratting is. the problem with rorqual minining isnt that it pays 200m an hour, its that i can run 10 accounts easily making 200m an hour. find a way to stop that, and youll solve your problem. We finally have ways for individuals to make good money in this game and you *** nerf it. You made it possible for newer/more casual players to be able to effectively grind for their money, and now you are canning it. We actually had a way to combat the war chests of *** PL and NC. and other groups who have corps with trillions of isk that can just passively money, simply by actually playing the game. I actually feel like im getting something from grinding in this game, same with my corp mates. if you nerf these income streams itll just feel *** worthless, and ill just buy plex because i cant be arsed to *** rat for 45m an hour. But thats what you want, isnt it? me to buy ***** plex. This. I don't plex my accounts and I pay CCP hundreds of dollars a year for the privilege of playing their game. I've bought plex so that I could fast track my ability to get involved in the exciting end-game elements of EVE like caps and supers. I don't think it's unreasonable to get the isk generation one does from a supercarrier when you think about the 26+ billion dollar ship you need to do it and the 30 mil+ SP toon you need committed to that ship. What's worse is that the active forms of ratting like carrier/super carrier ratting are getting a nerf while people who are Netflix ratting in their VNIs/Isktars are business as usual. You're punishing the people who are actively playing the game and putting huge content magnets/assets on the field. I don't see this as a good long-term strategy. What's more, it now takes more time doing the brutally unfun activities like carrier ratting to fund the stuff that actually makes this game enjoyable; the PvP ships we need to buy and blow up. With this nerf, the ratio of time spent pursuing unfun activities in this game to fun activities in this game gets skewered even harder towards PvE. At this point, it just stinks of a cash grab to get customers to drop even more money on this game in the form of microtransactions on top of a subscription model. At some point I have to put my foot down and tell you guys to take a hike. Therefore, I've cancelled auto-renew on all my accounts and plan to let them lapse, because a balance sheet is going to make a much bigger statement than this forum post ever will.
AnTalKiLLeR Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:23:54 - [643] - Quote - 3 accounts
Vladimir Petrovski Valkyrie Force Lord of Worlds Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:24:47 - [644] - Quote So...let me get this straight. CCP makes it easier for players to get into carriers and supercarriers by reducing certain SP requirements; CCP removes the ability for carriers to field drones and replaces their sole combat ability to fighters, thus actually giving the carriers a true nitch in Eve; CCP permits players to purchase SP instead of having to actually take the time to earn the SPs (read: pay to win mentality) CCP nerfs fighters, making them easier to kill, thus attacking the very nitch carriers have Realizing that they haven't been able to successfully curb ISK-making, they now once again nerf fighters thus nerfing carriers altogether. If the goal is to transform carriers into expensive paperweights, then that's exactly what is occurring. Carriers are being turned into pointless ships. Ignore the now-relative ease in which you can get into one, if the assault on carriers by CCP continues, there will literally be zero point in actually utilizing one. I get the argument about "ISK printing", but considering how relatively slow they are, and how easy it is for a 1-2 interdictors to lock one down with a bubble until a carrier-blap fleet arrives, the benefit/loss ratio is now in the true negative. I don't mind losing ships... hell, if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it, but why make it so that it's pointless to field in the first place?
JuGGeR Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:24:53 - [645] - Quote guess thanas will rain again alliance wide.... can dock em now @least , more shiny stuff docked up ....
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:25:59 - [646] - Quote Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post.
Kahlua Kapre KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:27:53 - [647] - Quote RIP -2 accounts. Go rip someone else off ******* CCP pubbies
Snape Dieboldmotor Minotaur Congress 39	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:27:55 - [648] - Quote I though Fozzie was in charge of delivering bad news. Larrikin, you need to develop some flame resistance plating for your internal fittings. Good luck with this thread.
Driczinella Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:28:08 - [649] - Quote Matt McDefault wrote: Creecher Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it. My prediction was CCP would nerf individual PVE streams such as Rorquals and Super ratting which are some of the highest income streams for individual players and had been for years. What CCP fails to realize is that people don't pve for fun in high end groups, we pve to pay for our PVP. When you lose a doctrine ship or a dread or something of that nature in a big brawl (that CCP sort of markets to Bright eyed new players who they pray have a Credit Card and will inject and buy Plex to reach a level veteran player have) You naturally need to replace it. What CCP fails to realize is in their greed ridden pay to win system of BUY PLEX NOW and ridding Eve of it's pve streams gradually is that now you are truly killing content for players. You give us less targets to hunt, you give us less big ships to destroy because dumb people like to fly big shiny ships, and you further alienate the concepts talked about during the release of Citadel when Supers and Titans were reworked and retooled to give then a new role with very big nerfs to hp and ewar immunity. Odd how this isn't a dev post on the PvP ability of such ships but rather a economc view. Eve has trillions of isk in it's economy and has for over a decade. Why now the sudden shift towards killing individual income streams? Because all CCP wants is for you to buy Plex with real money period. First they'll nerf Rorquals and Supers. Then theyll nerf anom repawns. Then they make it where capitals cannot run anoms or level 5 missions and instead encourage "group" pve like those stupid Blood Raider sites that can be ran in frigates as "high end pve" as a way to finally kill individual income. Welcome to the new Eve. Better whip out that credit card. FYI CCP I've always paid for my 7 accounts with actual money. I hate the idea of having to pve for my subscription and my pve time is spent fueling my PvP for PL and my own endeavours. Keep this up and I think a few of us will just get so sick of the EA like way this game is headed and go find something else to play. Which is pretty sad. Don't make us buy Plex to PvP. not empty quoting. I understand that you dont want unlimited isk faucets, but you're doing it the wrong way. if you want to limit rorqual mining, then find a way to make it ***** aids to multibox, like supercarrier ratting is. the problem with rorqual minining isnt that it pays 200m an hour, its that i can run 10 accounts easily making 200m an hour. find a way to stop that, and youll solve your problem. We finally have ways for individuals to make good money in this game and you *** nerf it. You made it possible for newer/more casual players to be able to effectively grind for their money, and now you are canning it. We actually had a way to combat the war chests of *** PL and NC. and other groups who have corps with trillions of isk that can just passively money, simply by actually playing the game. I actually feel like im getting something from grinding in this game, same with my corp mates. if you nerf these income streams itll just feel *** worthless, and ill just buy plex because i cant be arsed to *** rat for 45m an hour. But thats what you want, isnt it? me to buy *** plex. This. I don't plex my accounts and I pay CCP hundreds of dollars a year for the privilege of playing their game. I've bought plex so that I could fast track my ability to get involved in the exciting end-game elements of EVE like caps and supers. I don't think it's unreasonable to get the isk generation one does from a supercarrier when you think about the 26+ billion dollar ship you need to do it and the 30 mil+ SP toon you need committed to that ship. What's worse is that the active forms of ratting like carrier/super carrier ratting are getting a nerf while people who are Netflix ratting in their VNIs/Isktars are business as usual. You're punishing the people who are actively playing the game and putting huge content magnets/assets on the field. I don't see this as a good long-term strategy. What's more, it now takes more time doing the brutally unfun activities like carrier ratting to fund the stuff that actually makes this game enjoyable; the PvP ships we need to buy and blow up. With this nerf, the ratio of time spent pursuing unfun activities in this game to fun activities in this game gets skewered even harder towards PvE. At this point, it just stinks of a cash grab to get customers to drop even more money on this game in the form of microtransactions on top of a subscription model. At some point I have to put my foot down and tell you guys to take a hike. Therefore, I've cancelled auto-renew on all my accounts and plan to let them lapse, because a balance sheet is going to make a much bigger statement than this forum post ever will. -4 accounts ** CCP GREED
Revival Lolloking Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:28:26 - [650] - Quote I've been playing since 2006 and I'm really breaking the hips of these ever-changing and far-reaching changes to the game ... why do not you focus on fixing bugs in this game to make pvp more enjoyable? The rules make it to the players .... do I have to remember the times of "Incarna"? Do you want to trigger a protest like that? Watch out for what you are doing ...

RB Marketslave Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:29:53 - [651] - Quote Kassimila wrote: I'm sure no one from CCP will actually read this thread, but this is not how you solve this problem. Here is exactly how you solve the issue that is null sec isk printing issue. Step #1 . Remove bounties, replace with tags/blue loot/etc that is sold to NPCs for the same value. TADA! Now people actually have to stop and loot the sites. Or use MTUs which other players can come in and blow up/take! This will slow down peoples overall income generation as having to actually interact with the wrecks instead of being able to just churn and burn sites. This change will allow small roaming gangs to actually takes things away from people that just warp out and dock when you hit local. Probe down MTU = Profit. Step #2. Remove ESS's from the game. Instant 5% isk generation reduction. Step #3. Increase sales tax to generate more isk sink. Notice how these changes deal with the actual economy instead of nerfing a particular ship type, that is instantly defeated by a single falcon. PS. You could also greatly increase the chance of an NPC capital spawn if you're ratting in a capital. Increase the damage on the NPC capitals so they actually pose a threat. I always found it stupid that I could solo the NPC dread in a thanatos with T1 fighters.....and a passive shield tank. The opinions of someone who clearly has no diea what they are talking about. 1: Everyone has alts who can follow their super around and loot for them, this would do nothing 2: Nobody is high ratting areas even uses an ESS, this would do nothing 3: sure, I guess
Vetus Metallicus Blue Angels Inc. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:31:03 - [652] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Have you actually flown a carrier in PvP before? Thats absolute BS. A rattlesnake now does more damage than an archon...
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16076	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:31:39 - [653] - Quote Snape Dieboldmotor wrote: I though Fozzie was in charge of delivering bad news. Larrikin, you need to develop some flame resistance plating for your internal fittings. Good luck with this thread. Yea, I hope Larrikin trained Overheat to 5
8RU74L Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:36:07 - [654] - Quote "Supers" should be renamed now because they will be far from superior in any way. First you make smaller amounts of plex to grab more money via smaller transactions,after that skins are flooding the market,obviusly. Well how about you guys just remove game time bought via plex and solve the problem,and loose the subscribers in the process,i think you already taking a route to loose players,not gain them. I m fine with most of stuff you guys did but this is too much. Instead get some competent people to test the stuff you intend to put in game,before you actually put them in game,take a month of testing,this is a bad move by giving people op toys to make isk then nerfing them (looking at rorq pilots) Alot of us are using money to get plexes to buy injectors and use them for something we think its gonna make us some good isk and then BOOM nerf incoming.Now you can say that EULA says that you can do what you want,thats right,but you can also stop getting the money because loosing trust from players. Tell what you want but that is a **** move,now either you have totaly incompetent testers or you do it on purpose. Also did any of you maybe,just maaaayyyyyybbbbbeeee thought of reducing bounty on npcs instead of killing the ships? Whats next??? Wormholes....oh wait,Escalations,station trading...list goes on.
GOB the Magician Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 103	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:36:35 - [655] - Quote Yet another balance pass that will result in less players undocking ships they enjoy flying. As a casual player who pays for my account in real money, you're making it very difficult for me to justify continuing to do so. There's no way I'm going to pay for a sub and have to buy plex in order to play. It's just not going to happen.
Xiaodown Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 105	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:36:47 - [656] - Quote Let's talk about this money supply issue, CCP. Quote: Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. First off: I'm not your friend, guy. Second, you are saying that the problem is that the money supply is too big, and the cause is that it's too easy to rat in carriers. Have you considered that the problem is actually deeper than that? What if the problem is that there's not currently a reason or a venue for big fleet fights, and thus, everyone has beaten their swords into plowshares for lack of content? People are playing this game, they're skilling up their characters, they're training into the next steps in their Eve career, and ... they have no humans to engage with all of these skill points. So what do you expect them to do? They join the Cold War; they start building up a bankroll for when the content comes back. Third - what, exactly, is the problem with a large money supply? What are the effects? That people can buy more ships, cheaper, and faster? Only CCP could look at that, and think it's a bad thing. Again, it goes back to lack of content: if there were more big fights, then it would be fantastic that there were more people with more ships that were bigger and badder. And it would be fantastic that people could lose a relatively expensive ship, and get back into another one ASAP, and do it all over again. Big fleet fights drive subscriber engagement as well as generate out-of-game news / buzz, which leads to more subscribers. CCP, it's almost like you expect this to be a game about grinding and hoarding, rather than about shooting other people's spaceships. If they you think it should be a game about grinding and hoarding, you should do exactly what you're doing now - nerf all the ways to make lots of money (moon goo, carrier ratting, rorqual mining), make nice ships more expensive (pirate battleships), and make people annoyed at the idea of fighting (citadels and void bombs). If, however, you think it should be a game about shooting spaceships, you would be making it easier and faster to get into more and bigger and more versatile ships, and then giving people lots of things to fight over and lots of reasons to engage enemy fleets.
Horan Kim I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:36:56 - [657] - Quote I really do hope CCP devs are not this stupid. But for some reason, they are not focusing on the underlying issues that are destroying the game. The problem with all this ISK faucet got worse since the introduction of skill injector/extractor. It is easy to shape up old, high SP, unfocused characters into many focused characters. Easier to acquire focused ratting alt, especially carrier/super carrier alt. Just grab some skill injectors and everybody flies carriers/supers now. I have seen many newbies go from VNI to Rattlesnake and then Thanatos/Nid in the course of few month. Before the skill injectors, you have to wait for your ratting character to skill up or buy a carrier character off the bazaar, which require a lot more upfront ISK then buying skill injectors as you go (or a lot more real money to buy and sell PLEX). Next, the introduction of Citadels also hurt the game by worsening the NULL sec stagnation on top of boring and somewhat stupid sovereignty mechanism (a.k.a. Fozzie sov). Forming up three times for undefended but TZ tanking, damage capped Citadel is bad. Defended? It becomes a nightmare. And everybody drops Citadel as they drop their MTUs and mobile depots nowadays. With asset safety, what they got to lose? and what they are gonna do with all that isk that they are making anyway? Why bother risk going into a war when you are going to face cancer level Citadel bashing among other cancer level fights and Sov grinding? There is 0 driving force to start the war yet so much to lose and suffer for starting one. So people just do roaming and camping and dropping stuff and etc., but no full-scale campaign. Meantime, people are ratting and mining more since there are nothing else to do. Last, removing Aurum in-game and combine it to PLEX and also dividing PLEX into 500 helped the PLEX prices to go up like crazy. So people who want to play the game free have to grind for more isk. Hence, more isk being generated. All those above reasons became a vicious cycle, making the current situation worse and worse. More people, including newbies, use carrier/super to rat and nothing else to do, PLEX prices keep going up, rat more, etc. CCP's solution? Nerf Rorqual!! Nerf Carrier/Supercarrier!!! They make too much iskies!!!
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:38:05 - [658] - Quote Vetus Metallicus wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Have you actually flown a carrier in PvP before? Thats absolute BS. A rattlesnake now does more damage than an archon... I'm not saying they are right on that, just that they gave a reason. No need to fly a carrier to read a post all the way...
Texas Queens Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:38:21 - [659] - Quote GoddessOfPeace Ishikela wrote: So right now carrier can be killed by 5-10 AB fited frigates easily because they have one ¦¦l¦¦o¦¦v¦¦e¦¦d¦¦ hated ECM ship like Kitsune or even griffin with skills at lvl 1 <===== ( coz it's moar than enought for perma jams fighters ) So after your patch, all your carriers will finish like this => How to fly carrier after June patch This patch is a typical proof where CCP show that they prefer Multi boxers for AFK farm so they can sell more plexes. But wait ! Alpha Galente clone can afk VNI in Null sec ! So still can afk without plex. Gj CCP to kill also small entities in low sex who have just one or two carriers for defend their pocket. You're acting like super ratting isn't a multi-box affair. 1. Super 2. Fax1 3. Fax2 4. Inty to scout sites 5. cloaked alt watching dread bomb systems may aswell use 2-3 AFKtars instead, its ALOT less effort.
Doss Brannigan KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:39:18 - [660] - Quote Driczinella wrote: Matt McDefault wrote: [quote=Creecher Virpio][quote=Tara Read]I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it. -4 accounts **** CCP GREED #FUCKCCPGREED -2 ACCOUNTS #FUCKCCPGREED -2 ACCOUNTS

Ghostly Angell Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:39:47 - [661] - Quote so,you spend half a year training carrier and fighters 5 to get 10% more dmg on a normal carrier and now I GET THIS NEWS????????? -20% ????? very bad joke
Romana Erebus EVE ACTORS GUILD The Bitter End. 62	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:40:05 - [662] - Quote Odinessa wrote: At the rate you are going, you will end up running off most of your player base with these nerfs to fun content. Your real nerf is to nerf the numbers of players, until there are none left. If most of the player base are ratting carrier/super pilots I'd say we are doomed already.
Romana Erebus EVE ACTORS GUILD The Bitter End. 62	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:41:40 - [663] - Quote GOB the Magician wrote: Yet another balance pass that will result in less players undocking ships they enjoy flying. As a casual player who pays for my account in real money, you're making it very difficult for me to justify continuing to do so. There's no way I'm going to pay for a sub and have to buy plex in order to play. It's just not going to happen. Go Pvp and dumpster thing and scoop shiny loot. A month worth of that pays for plex and is good for you too. Like carrotts or spinach.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3167	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:43:02 - [664] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. To be fair, the PvP bit seemed an afterthought tacked on to the end in effort to pre-address criticism about the mix of such a broad-spectrum nerf with such dramatically large numbers. If I read their opening rationale by itself, I would probably expect a 5-10% DPS nerf along with some more PvE specific changes to address the bounties. A 20-30% tweak is abnormally massive. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Cartras Vokan Polaris Rising The Bastion 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:43:17 - [665] - Quote If anyone at CCP wants to come have an evening of carrier ratting and subcap ratting (and ts3 shenanigans of course) to experience their game, pm me. It often feels like in the past couple years very few actually play the game and decisions are based off of graphs, not personal/team game experience.
Gianni Zuiverloon Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:43:29 - [666] - Quote FIX THE ANOMALIES NOT THE CAPITAL SHIPS. NEW ANOMALIES FOR CARRIERS ONLY AND RESTRICTED ACCESS TO THE CURRENT ANOMS FOR CARRIERS. AFTER YEARS OF TIME WASTED SKILLING A SHIP YOU NERF IT LIKE THAT?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS?? GIVE ME BACK ALL THE SKILL POINTS YOU THIEFS. -4 ACCOUNTS SUB RIGHT NOW. UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND COMPLETELY. Bye bye
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:43:39 - [667] - Quote -10 accounts ill go spend my money on world of warships more fun at this point anyways
Riza HR Outer Ring Security Services The Amish Mafia 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:44:19 - [668] - Quote Just stop with patches, one patch every 6 month was good, you are kiling this game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 15	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:44:41 - [669] - Quote It seems this issue is starting to break subscription numbers : https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen/ CCPlease delete the employee that suggested this nerf and the manager who approved it !
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16076	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:45:36 - [670] - Quote Gianni Zuiverloon wrote: FIX THE ANOMALIES NOT THE CAPITAL SHIPS. NEW ANOMALIES FOR CARRIERS ONLY AND RESTRICTED ACCESS TO THE CURRENT ANOMS FOR CARRIERS. AFTER YEARS OF TIME WASTED SKILLING A SHIP YOU NERF IT LIKE THAT?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS?? GIVE ME BACK ALL THE SKILL POINTS YOU THIEFS. -4 ACCOUNTS SUB RIGHT NOW. UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND COMPLETELY. Bye bye Ah **** boys, he's serious, look at all them capital letters!

AnTalKiLLeR Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:45:37 - [671] - Quote Gianni sei un cazzaro ma hai ragione
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16076	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:46:34 - [672] - Quote Krypleria wrote: It seems this issue is starting to break subscription numbers : https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen/ CCPlease delete the employee that suggested this nerf and the manager who approved it ! Just when I thought it couldn't get worse...a Reddit post appears! ABANDON SHIP!!
Hulk Miner White Horse Incorporated 75	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:47:04 - [673] - Quote Bring another 10 > 30% carriers on to the battle field... The only salty tears im hearing are from those solo grinders, likes it going to stop an alliance
8RU74L Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:47:13 - [674] - Quote "Supers" will now have to be renamed to something less superior since they ll be obsolete. This is very verrrry bad move,why?Here is why First there are some of us that are buying stuff for real money via plex,I know EULA say you can do what you want wich from customer point of view looks like :"ok i m stoping buying stuff from you because EULA" I am using money to buy injectors to inject towards something i think i need to make money,content etc. Second,before puting something into tranquility you should test the toys you are bringing in,now either you dont have testers,or you have incompetent testers,or you do it on purpose---another reason to stop supporting the game Did any of you ever think about,instead of nerfing ships,nerf the bounty on npcs,but i guess you dont care. You did grab more money via plex change,skins are suddnely flooding the market,never seen so many skins coming out so fast before. Now this. Why dont you just remove the game subscription via plex and make it only usable via money,i know why,you will loose too much subscribers,but you are already going that way so why not go full ******.
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 3183	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:48:10 - [675] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: CCP: "NPC bounties inject too much ISK into the economy, so let's leave bounties alone and nerf carriers and supers into oblivion." Seriously, you're generating memes here, CCP, for smart thinking. the bounties weren't too much of a problem until the carrier/super change happened ~1 year ago. @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Aiy're Amok. Goonswarm Federation 34	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:48:17 - [676] - Quote Does CCP Know that One heavy fighter costs about 27-30m. Clearing one haven pays out 30m. By adding the additional chance to lose more fighters you would be negative isk if you lost 1 heavy fighter. The mechanics of this nerf is completely screwed up. Also you said these changes would not affect PVP. I don't see how it could not with the damage reduction to the fighters. CCP needs to go back to the drawing board on this one. I have played this game for a long time and the nerfs that keep coming are insane. You are making capital ships basically useless. When one pays 25-30b for a ship you should be able to make decent isk with the said ship. How about giving us reasons to use these ships in more combat scenarios.
Seeny Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:48:17 - [677] - Quote CCP Logic = Encourage AFK farm in nullsec and 6plex alt incursion in highsec + discourage farm required real play. - First CCP, go hunting bot farming (every pvp players have already report them to you, espcially in drone region...) - Second, kill "AFK play" in all its forms. - Then and only then, you can keep a passionate community. Sorry if my English isn't perfect, i'm French and this is the first time I've written here, I do not know if it will work, but it's my time to sound the alarm before you go too far. Thanks
Kassimila Macabre Votum Northern Coalition. 61	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:50:22 - [678] - Quote Vladimir Petrovski wrote: So...let me get this straight. CCP makes it easier for players to get into carriers and supercarriers by reducing certain SP requirements; CCP removes the ability for carriers to field drones and replaces their sole combat ability to fighters, thus actually giving the carriers a true nitch in Eve; CCP permits players to purchase SP instead of having to actually take the time to earn the SPs (read: pay to win mentality) CCP nerfs fighters, making them easier to kill, thus attacking the very nitch carriers have Realizing that they haven't been able to successfully curb ISK-making, they now once again nerf fighters thus nerfing carriers altogether. If the goal is to transform carriers into expensive paperweights, then that's exactly what is occurring. Carriers are being turned into pointless ships. Ignore the now-relative ease in which you can get into one, if the assault on carriers by CCP continues, there will literally be zero point in actually utilizing one. I get the argument about "ISK printing", but considering how relatively slow they are, and how easy it is for a 1-2 interdictors to lock one down with a bubble until a carrier-blap fleet arrives, the benefit/loss ratio is now in the true negative. I don't mind losing ships... hell, if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it, but why make it so that it's pointless to field in the first place? Actually killing a ship doesn't remove isk from the game, it in fact generates more of it. I realize this seems counter intuitive but you paid someone for that ship, money just moves it doesn't disappear unless it goes to an NPC isk sink. When you kill a ship, insured or not there is a payout. They just need remove payouts for uninsured ships.
Jeison Frenzy Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:51:07 - [679] - Quote This nerf bring Damage bonused carriers at level 4 to the same dmg as an un-bonused carrier. By nerfing the fighters your unduly hurting the tank carriers the most, when they are not the issue. A far more effective nerf would be a reduction of the damage bonus of the Nidhoggur and Thanatos to 3% by level, along with a 5% base fighter dmg nerf or IMO the equivalent of 1 T2 Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer bonuses as a nerf to the application instead, this will drive fits to work in more Tracking when shooting sub-caps especially for shield carriers that currently only typically use DDAs in most combat fits.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:51:12 - [680] - Quote 8RU74L wrote: Did any of you ever think about,instead of nerfing ships,nerf the bounty on npcs,but i guess you dont care. Why do you want to nerf my ratting oracle? It sure as hell does not need to be nerfed.

Alexander Shvec SNG ARMY Estamos Solos Alliance. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:55:21 - [681] - Quote CCP You kill a game!
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 50	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:55:30 - [682] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: 8RU74L wrote: Did any of you ever think about,instead of nerfing ships,nerf the bounty on npcs,but i guess you dont care. Why do you want to nerf my ratting oracle? It sure as hell does not need to be nerfed. In the times before Karmafleet roamed New Eden, tier 3 BCs got nerfed because of PVE too.
Xerxes Fehrnah The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans 89	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:59:37 - [683] - Quote This is a bold and dramatic decision. Looking at the game mechanics, perhaps other options exist and more careful deliberation with a player focus group should be held before you finalize this decision.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:59:42 - [684] - Quote singthegrief wrote: So here is a idea how about all that are in the AT just use rookie ships this year. if i can get people to agree i will have my guys do the same. enough is enough #fuCCP LOL if you think nobody will sell out to get the shiny prizes.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6890	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:59:51 - [685] - Quote CCP Larrikin, you forgot about Citadels, didn't you. You just nerfed their defences, too.
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 17:59:53 - [686] - Quote http://imgur.com/akb596b Just waiting for tuesday pm to do that !! -9 accounts in total Have fun guys Thanks for the fish
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 31	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:00:05 - [687] - Quote Like somebody else said before: the recent ******-level changes that CCP has made in the last year is the reason why I find myself spending less and less time in EvE. Ever since the carrier/supercarrier chances, these ships have seen nothing but nerfs and in HUGE numbers. I remember when everybody was complaining about Ishtar fleets just roaming around with sentry drones, melting any other type of fleet composition...and only after a tremendous amount of time, CCP decided to nerf Ishtar sentry dmg by 5%. FIVE! Nobody is complaining about carriers. You already stripped down capital survivability by a huge amount. Now you are taking away their damage and usefulness altogether. Support fighters are and always were a joke and normal fighters became a joke once everybody realized that a t2 frig can literally counter an entire 3bil isk ship. Now you are nerfing them again...by 20 % . I've kept my cool when CCP nerfed carrier dmg by 40% and tracking by 60% in one big patch... I've remained civil in expressing what could only be disgust towards CCP when they decided to increase the sig radius of fighters by 100% and make NPCs aggro them continuously, completely ignoring the pages and pages of posts from ppl telling them they are in the wrong. No more. The people deciding to implement this nerf are complete CRETINS. No sane person can take a look at a carrier in its current state and say "yeah...its too strong". Not with its vulnerability to E-war... Its inability to withstand damage compared to other capitals... Or the vulnerability of fighters vs anything smaller than a BS. A carrier pilot will make good ticks because he invested 3-4 bil in his ship and sinked a lot of his time in skills. Instead of being rewarded for their patience and dedication to the game (might i remind you that just from lvl4 to lvl5 carrier, it takes ~55 *** days) they are repeatedly slapped in the face with nerfs to ships that nobody has complained about ... implemented by people who have not even spent time playing the game. In the meantime, nobody cares about the AFK ratting VNI, Ishtars and Rattlesnakes... multi-boxing faction BSs just destroying Havens in minutes with smartbombs... or the fact that a character in highsec can generate more isk/hour doing incursions with no risk to his ship. I understand that in the eyes of lazy devs, its much easier to draw a line at 20% nerf to a certain ship, rather than creating and implementing a new and good tactic for balancing the game (such as some of the suggestions in previous posts), but EvE has slowly turned from a wonder of gaming, who's devs were in sync with the players...to a steaming pile of **. All of this because you are lazy, because you dont care about your players. Sooner or later all of these insults to your own players will circle back. The day that nerf is implemented, I stop investing my time and money in this game. If I was dissatisfied before with the way CCP has been handling its crown jewel, I can say that on a personal level, this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Until such a time that EvE gets back on track with a new set of minds or logic when deciding how to balance the game, I take my leave. o7 Respectful salute for the people who made the game great in its day -- and ..\|.. (^_^) ..\|.. for those that are ruining it.
Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:00:17 - [688] - Quote 210x the isk investment of a VNI to make about 4x the isk they make while also not being able to multibox and afk it, 10x the isk investment to make about 25% more isk than a carrier ratting, and you still apply shittily to AB armor cruisers down. lol get ****** CCP. ITT garbage company doesn't understand balance.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 201	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:01:10 - [689] - Quote Unbelievable. Summer of rage 2 coming right up CCP. Every single patch has been a nerf on carriers. Why not just reduce bounties in general.... nerfing the crap out of a group of some ships is apparently more sensible... NOT
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:01:24 - [690] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: singthegrief wrote: So here is a idea how about all that are in the AT just use rookie ships this year. if i can get people to agree i will have my guys do the same. enough is enough #fuCCP LOL if you think nobody will sell out to get the shiny prizes. i know worth a try

Dazzak The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:01:27 - [691] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. So yet again CCP is changing pushing people back to AFK ratting in VNI or ISHTAR, The carrier changes we to get players more involved with playing the game and carrier ratting is what I consider the most player intense thing to do you have to be active all the time This changes will not help the player base but continue to push old players onto other games Risk V Reward you should have benefit from using carriers and supers
Jen Makanen Roving Guns Inc. Mercenary Coalition 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:02:26 - [692] - Quote First off, I'm going to say this: I've never been one for carrier ratting. I just don't enjoy the idea of ratting and fielding that much isk for an activity I can do easier for far less work. From a PvP stand point though, Carriers have been in a dire state for a while now and this will further knock them down. I can't comment on the supercarrier side of this change, but I will say it's probably quite over the top. As many people have said here, EVE is in the middle of probably the largest cold war since its release (at least for me it feels this way), entities are scrounging for as many resources as they possibly can, so that when the next great war kicks off we can all jump in our ships and give the boot to whoever needs it the most without worrying so much about our wallets. I do a lot of theorycrafting, as I'm sure many other posters here do. I also do a lot of testing, both on TQ and on SISI/TD when the time allows it. I can catergorically tell you that carriers are already weak. As a carrier pilot, you spend ridiculous amounts of time training into this fabled ship, only to see if go through so many balance passes from being an effective cap killer and logistics platform that required skill and finese into an effective subcap killer where we saw them being used solo for some interesting content to whatever the hell they are now. I agree a carrier shouldn't be able to solo a competent gang. I agree there must be counterplay so I could somewhat forgive the initial nerf carriers faced after the changes and the introduction of the NSA to both the baby carrier and the supercarrier. BUT, going from being able to effectively fight off small gangs of ships with a lone carrier to being locked down by a single griffin? You can't be serious. Not only can my fighters not track said griffin, but now they can't even lock him so who cares. I can't see any scenario where it isn't better to drop 5 HAW dreads on a gang than to drop 5 carriers on the same gang. FAX are supposed to be DPS support ships. Why would anyone commit a carrier in a capital fight when they can't hit the broadside of a barn without bucket loads of tracking? Plus, a dread will always be better than a carrier in a capital fight. Oh, and not forgetting the fact a dread also has a fleet hanger and SMA, so the ONE thing carriers had sacred isn't even there to persuade people who just want a suitcase, when you can get a dread far quicker for that purpose. Oh and while I'm on about support; if I wanted to be a giant capital bhaalgorn, I'd fly an ACTUAL bhaalgorn. Even with these changes coming to pirate faction ships, a few bhaalgorns will still probably be cheaper than a carrier and equally if not more effective? Now; from a PvE perspective, heres my two cents: - Nerf the ratting bounties? - Make anoms respawn slower, forcing people to move systems, hence making ratting more risky and active. - Incursions? Think about those, just saying. - Oh, and improve NPC AI and increase rat EHP? And quite frankly, if someone has spent the best part of half a year training to sit in this ship and wants to use it for ratting, they should make more than Mr Alpha in a free account VNI. You're forgetting the sheer amount of effort than goes into training and piloting carrier -- even just for ratting, god forbid those people be rewarded for their invest to the game, cmon guys. TLDR: Are you sure CCP? Might wanna review the PvP side of EVE.
Ping PangWang Ironstar Industries and Research Axiom Vocation Alliance 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:02:54 - [693] - Quote here i thought the credo of eve was HTFU.............
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 50	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:02:54 - [694] - Quote C0ATL wrote: ... or the fact that a character in highsec can generate more isk/hour doing incursions with no risk to his ship. :same:
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 201	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:05:09 - [695] - Quote Jen Makanen wrote: First off, I'm going to say this: I've never been one for carrier ratting. I just don't enjoy the idea of ratting and fielding that much isk for an activity I can do easier for far less work. From a PvP stand point though, Carriers have been in a dire state for a while now and this will further knock them down. I can't comment on the supercarrier side of this change, but I will say it's probably quite over the top. As many people have said here, EVE is in the middle of probably the largest cold war since its release (at least for me it feels this way), entities are scrounging for as many resources as they possibly can, so that when the next great war kicks off we can all jump in our ships and give the boot to whoever needs it the most without worrying so much about our wallets. I do a lot of theorycrafting, as I'm sure many other posters here do. I also do a lot of testing, both on TQ and on SISI/TD when the time allows it. I can catergorically tell you that carriers are already weak. As a carrier pilot, you spend ridiculous amounts of time training into this fabled ship, only to see if go through so many balance passes from being an effective cap killer and logistics platform that required skill and finese into an effective subcap killer where we saw them being used solo for some interesting content to whatever the hell they are now. I agree a carrier shouldn't be able to solo a competent gang. I agree there must be counterplay so I could somewhat forgive the initial nerf carriers faced after the changes and the introduction of the NSA to both the baby carrier and the supercarrier. BUT, going from being able to effectively fight off small gangs of ships with a lone carrier to being locked down by a single griffin? You can't be serious. Not only can my fighters not track said griffin, but now they can't even lock him so who cares. I can't see any scenario where it isn't better to drop 5 HAW dreads on a gang than to drop 5 carriers on the same gang. FAX are supposed to be DPS support ships. Why would anyone commit a carrier in a capital fight when they can't hit the broadside of a barn without bucket loads of tracking? Plus, a dread will always be better than a carrier in a capital fight. Oh, and not forgetting the fact a dread also has a fleet hanger and SMA, so the ONE thing carriers had sacred isn't even there to persuade people who just want a suitcase, when you can get a dread far quicker for that purpose. Oh and while I'm on about support; if I wanted to be a giant capital bhaalgorn, I'd fly an ACTUAL bhaalgorn. Even with these changes coming to pirate faction ships, a few bhaalgorns will still probably be cheaper than a carrier and equally if not more effective? Now; from a PvE perspective, heres my two cents: - Nerf the ratting bounties? - Make anoms respawn slower, forcing people to move systems, hence making ratting more risky and active. - Incursions? Think about those, just saying. - Oh, and improve NPC AI and increase rat EHP? And quite frankly, if someone has spent the best part of half a year training to sit in this ship and wants to use it for ratting, they should make more than Mr Alpha in a free account VNI. You're forgetting the sheer amount of effort than goes into training and piloting carrier -- even just for ratting, god forbid those people be rewarded for their invest to the game, cmon guys. TLDR: Are you sure CCP? Might wanna review the PvP side of EVE. A freaking men
Fethyst Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:05:23 - [696] - Quote As a few others have said, changing the sites/anoms would make more sense in terms of fixing the issue. I am not in favor of adding gates to prevent carriers/supers from Haven's or Sanctums but either A) adding higher level sites in 0.0 for capitals to run B) something that I didn't see mentioned, scale the difficulty up in the upper tier sites (Havens/Sanctums). option B would maybe solve the issue of tons of AFK VNI/Ishtars running Havens. they would be forced to do lower level sites which would have less income and would make the capitals take longer to finish the sites. Both of which would slow down the inflow of ISK without effecting the overall abilities of the carries for PvP, etc. these seem like better solutions that more accurately address the problem presented (too much isk generation) and also add more challenging game play
C09 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:05:42 - [697] - Quote Making some new anomalies for capital ships is too difficult for CCP?
Proud White Prince Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:09:55 - [698] - Quote Oh boy they had to do it. Not as bad as the whole Incarna update with all those **** ups and bad decisions. But hey! you're getting there! Even CCP needs tears sometimes and this is how they do it. But why nerf the fighters? You affect both PVP and PVE capability of the ship. You could have just done some better research or come up with a better solution if you're main problem is ISK making. And I can't possibly imagine that the CSM I voted for agreed with these drastic changes. I just don't get it, could be me being a dumb ass or you are not explaining enough details why you made these changes the first place. So many questions and frustration.
Cassius Blade PWT0 Fleet Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:10:52 - [699] - Quote I'm unsubbing. That's my response to this bullshit.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:11:01 - [700] - Quote C09 wrote: Making some new anomalies for capital ships is too difficult for CCP? Either the anomaly will let carriers/supers generate more ISK/hours because of the rats included or the carrier/supers will just continue running the current ones.

Vetus Metallicus Blue Angels Inc. 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:11:13 - [701] - Quote C09 wrote: Making some new anomalies for capital ships is too difficult for CCP? I mean they couldn't even implement the blood raider engineering complexes properly. It was taken down by frigates...
Brimestone Darkwing Kenshin. DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:11:17 - [702] - Quote So I'm guessing these Devs never post or respond to these ever? Seriously CCP you should really read the msgs here loads of good ideas maybe it's time to actually listen to the customer base hmm? o7 CCP o7 R.I.P Eve by the sounds of things
Father Jeremy Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:11:18 - [703] - Quote RIP CCP accounts, adios amigos was fun playing with you... Seriously? People have spent RL money to buy PLEX in order to buy skill injectors to get into carriers, rorquals etc... any comments?
Vetus Metallicus Blue Angels Inc. 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:12:18 - [704] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: C09 wrote: Making some new anomalies for capital ships is too difficult for CCP? Either the anomaly will let carriers/supers generate more ISK/hours because of the rats included or the carrier/supers will just continue running the current ones. If existing sites were gated to sub caps and capital only sites for caps then no it wouldn't be that way. It's not a terrible idea.
waltari High Flyers Northern Coalition. 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:13:14 - [705] - Quote I smell "capital usage permission certificate" in NEX Store ..... 20$/month Ye greedy fucks
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:13:49 - [706] - Quote Vetus Metallicus wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: C09 wrote: Making some new anomalies for capital ships is too difficult for CCP? Either the anomaly will let carriers/supers generate more ISK/hours because of the rats included or the carrier/supers will just continue running the current ones. If existing sites were gated to sub caps and capital only sites for caps then no it wouldn't be that way. It's not a terrible idea. This make hunting sub-cap ratters even harder than it currently is because the hunter has to use the gate.
Tara Read Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 979	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:15:15 - [707] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Their main reasoning was a PVE based nerf. Read carefully next time
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 204	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:16:32 - [708] - Quote Brimestone Darkwing wrote: So I'm guessing these Devs never post or respond to these ever? Seriously CCP you should really read the msgs here loads of good ideas maybe it's time to actually listen to the customer base hmm? o7 CCP o7 R.I.P Eve by the sounds of things True true
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:20:09 - [709] - Quote Tara Read wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Their main reasoning was a PVE based nerf. Read carefully next time Of course the main reason is PVE but that does not change the point. They are not too concerned about the PVP ramification because they think the ships are doing a bit too well anyway. That is why they are not trying a PVE only change. They might be totally wrong but that does not change their point of view.
Reeeeeeeew State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:22:53 - [710] - Quote CCP, this is what I want you to do. You can take those 500Gé¼ I recently spent into injecting and buying a super and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS. Becouse I aint playing this game anymore. Unsubbing 4 accounts. Bye

Caitlyn Mabata Cait-Land 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:23:14 - [711] - Quote It seems kinda crazy that you can spend 6 months trying to achieve a goal only to have the game change when you get there. I get balance and all, but carriers are supposed to be better than a random droneboats. Why spend all that time training for carriers if battleships are just as good? If a ship takes 6 months to train into, it should be better. What should my next goal be? Why set long term goals at all.
Jefrotee Hostile Phoenix Rising Industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:23:48 - [712] - Quote Ganja Wheels wrote: I agree carriers and supers earn far to much isk when ratting How much money do you spend IRL subbing to learn the skills to fly and fit a carrier and super? How much does it cost you to build or buy one? How much money do you think you should able to make per tick with a ship that cost that much time and ISK? You are delusional. If I helped you, please "Like" my posts. -áxD
Vetus Metallicus Blue Angels Inc. 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:24:18 - [713] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Their main reasoning was a PVE based nerf. Read carefully next time Of course the main reason is PVE but that does not change the point. They are not too concerned about the PVP ramification because they think the ships are doing a bit too well anyway. That is why they are not trying a PVE only change. They might be totally wrong but that does not change their point of view. If you think PvP performance has anything to do with this you have never actually flown a carrier in PvP fleet before. Your fighters can be jammed by a million isk griffin for christ sake.
Rich Nolen Lom Corporation Just let it happen 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:24:35 - [714] - Quote I think its amusing that people seem to think that their opinion matters in this thread. Like all the other times CCP has reacted to the market, they will not be changing their minds. This thread was started as a proclamation and nothing more, the fact its in a "Feedback Center" area of the forum is just a "make me feel good about it" thing. The way to fix the NPC problem with fighters is to increase the overall HP of the Rats by 20%, not nerf the fighters by 20% and then try to say it wont effect PVP.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 204	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:25:28 - [715] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Their main reasoning was a PVE based nerf. Read carefully next time Of course the main reason is PVE but that does not change the point. They are not too concerned about the PVP ramification because they think the ships are doing a bit too well anyway. That is why they are not trying a PVE only change. They might be totally wrong but that does not change their point of view. They are totally wrong about pvp in non supers. Basic carriers are SO vulnerable to gangs of small ships. They cant do anything to them.
Frockly Geiger Rumors Mining Corp Jamyl Syndicate 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:25:38 - [716] - Quote Why not add 4 hours respawn timers for sanctums too while your at it.
Harry Forever Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1331	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:25:42 - [717] - Quote you are doing it wrong, there is more isk but also more minerals to produce stuff because of the rorqual mining.. you now get scared and nerf down the isk generation as well as the mineral generation.. it would all be fine, you need more money in an economy that creates more products.. this would have lead to more fights because people would all have more ships etc. in short prosperitiy Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 3184	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:27:57 - [718] - Quote Father Jeremy wrote: RIP CCP accounts, adios amigos was fun playing with you... Seriously? People have spent RL money to buy PLEX in order to buy skill injectors to get into carriers, rorquals etc... any comments? people have spent RL money to buy GTCs to buy characters for longer than I've been playing. Nothing is nerf proof chase the flavor of the month at your own risk. @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
evan mclean Power Shift 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:28:47 - [719] - Quote no point in wasting anymore money on this game. going form pay $$$ to pvp in carrier to just carebearing in a Ishtar so I can plex my account what a fun game. you suck ccp
Racken Ormand Something Something Darkside. Circle-Of-Two 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:28:53 - [720] - Quote Tara Read wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Their main reasoning was a PVE based nerf. Read carefully next time Can confirm, it was because of an ISK issue in the economy.

Vaktul Merciful Genocide FUBAR. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:29:03 - [721] - Quote This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:29:06 - [722] - Quote Vetus Metallicus wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Tara Read wrote: So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice. They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post. Their main reasoning was a PVE based nerf. Read carefully next time Of course the main reason is PVE but that does not change the point. They are not too concerned about the PVP ramification because they think the ships are doing a bit too well anyway. That is why they are not trying a PVE only change. They might be totally wrong but that does not change their point of view. If you think PvP performance has anything to do with this you have never actually flown a carrier in PvP fleet before. Your fighters can be jammed by a million isk griffin for christ sake. My alliance has a doctrine to do just that. I know very well it can be done. I am not the one who need to eb convinced. I am only tell that CCP does not have a problem with the PVP ramification because they see the ship as over performing. Even if that information is actually wrong, it does not change anything as long as they still believe it to be true.
Anger'is strength S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:29:12 - [723] - Quote Changes like this are why you loose subscribers. As if its not bad enough you guys encourage RMT through PLEX and destabilize the plex market causing a 300+mill inflation of Monthly PLEX costs, which half of eve called before it even happened. now you've moved on to wrecking some of your consumers source of paying for those PLEX. Please CCP stop being so bad at your job.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 205	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:29:53 - [724] - Quote evan mclean wrote: no point in wasting anymore money on this game. going form pay $$$ to pvp in carrier to just carebearing in a Ishtar so I can plex my account what a fun game. you suck ccp Amen
Sterling Blades Windstalker Security Corp United Neopian Federation 33	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:30:15 - [725] - Quote My issue with this nerf isn't from the carrier viewpoint side, but the structure utility side, as this is a blanket FIGHTER nerf, and not a direct carrier nerf. A hard chunk of citadel defensive DPS is getting stripped with this, making structure defense a mite more difficult. Its more an annoyance to me than anything else, as it still quantifies a strong force multiplier when utilized right even after the fighter nerfs hit on tuesday, but considering fighters are one of the few viable anti-subcap defenses in citadel reportoires right now(Point Defense and bomb launchers not withstanding), it seems a bit ill-thought since fighter changes don't just affect carriers anymore. The gods are out there. They watch us. They guide, they manipulate. We rally behind the ones we adore, and rain fire against those who rally behind the ones we hate. The question now is, to whom does your allegiance fall behind, dear Empyreans?
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 205	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:30:47 - [726] - Quote Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:33:26 - [727] - Quote Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Yeah but it's an actual gravy train for CCP and does not generate any surplus ISK in the economy. :CCP:
waltari High Flyers Northern Coalition. 26	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:33:31 - [728] - Quote If its due to PVE just make some area effect similar to those in wormholes to weaken the fighters or whatever that **** up idea of yours is, The PVP part is more like correct usage of correct mods in correct situations and its all dependant on either Fleet Commanders, fleet concept or pilots themselves and there are no NPCs involved so not your fuckin concern. You gave us to use, we do it, dont try to fix somethingthat you **** up enough already.... AGAIN!
Valence Benedetto South of Heaven Ltd Blades of Grass 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:33:33 - [729] - Quote The magnitude of this overreaction is hard to believe. As compared to VNI ratting, carrier ratting is very active and requires a lot of attention by the player. There should be a reward for that. It also requires that you put more ISK on the table. There should be a reward for that. A 20% damage nerf plus a 15% increase to the chance that rats will gank your fighters is just ridiculous. The damage nerf alone would be ridiculous. The notion of trying to make one of the most active forms of pve in the game even more intensive is just punitive. I hope you will reconsider.
Ahwall Utrigas Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:34:22 - [730] - Quote This is a bad idea. I understand some damage reduction but this is a bit too much. Also, NPCs already target fighters 100% of the time. Whats the point in upping that? `People cheer on the succesful more than they encourage the weak.`

evan mclean Power Shift 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:35:14 - [731] - Quote Sterling Blades wrote: My issue with this nerf isn't from the carrier viewpoint side, but the structure utility side, as this is a blanket FIGHTER nerf, and not a direct carrier nerf. A hard chunk of citadel defensive DPS is getting stripped with this, making structure defense a mite more difficult. Its more an annoyance to me than anything else, as it still quantifies a strong force multiplier when utilized right even after the fighter nerfs hit on tuesday, but considering fighters are one of the few viable anti-subcap defenses in citadel reportoires right now(Point Defense and bomb launchers not withstanding), it seems a bit ill-thought since fighter changes don't just affect carriers anymore. sounds like a carebear problem and carebears + ccp = lame ass game
Ping PangWang Ironstar Industries and Research Axiom Vocation Alliance 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:35:29 - [732] - Quote everyone unsubbing contract me your stuff thxs bye /o
MItchell Jensen The Black Widow Company. FUBAR. 103	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:36:08 - [733] - Quote You're surprised that we saw the most effective way to make ISK and everyone with the means to do it flocked towards it? The carriers are not the issue here! Reduce NPC bounties in high end Null sites, or increase their EHP! Don't nerf a ship class. You're already nerfing Escalations. Carriers are already rarely fielded in Dreadnought Online. CCP Dropbear: rofl edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:36:44 - [734] - Quote waltari wrote: If its due to PVE just make some area effect similar to those in wormholes to weaken the fighters or whatever that **** up idea of yours is, The PVP part is more like correct usage of correct mods in correct situations and its all dependant on either Fleet Commanders, fleet concept or pilots themselves and there are no NPCs involved so not your fuckin concern. You gave us to use, we do it, dont try to fix somethingthat you **** up enough already.... AGAIN! Those effect are system wide so they would impact PvP too unless you ask CCP to design some kind of "NPC command burst" centered on the sites with gigantic ranges that only affect the required type of fighters in the required way. They obviously went with an easier solution...
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 205	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:38:25 - [735] - Quote Ahwall Utrigas wrote: This is a bad idea. I understand some damage reduction but this is a bit too much. Also, NPCs already target fighters 100% of the time. Whats the point in upping that? Exactly. Do not forget the sig radius nerf last update.
waltari High Flyers Northern Coalition. 27	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:38:49 - [736] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: waltari wrote: If its due to PVE just make some area effect similar to those in wormholes to weaken the fighters or whatever that **** up idea of yours is, The PVP part is more like correct usage of correct mods in correct situations and its all dependant on either Fleet Commanders, fleet concept or pilots themselves and there are no NPCs involved so not your fuckin concern. You gave us to use, we do it, dont try to fix somethingthat you **** up enough already.... AGAIN! Those effect are system wide so they would impact PvP too unless you ask CCP to design some kind of "NPC command burst" centered on the sites with gigantic ranges that only affect the required type of fighters in the required way. They obviously went with an easier solution... i mean more like "anomaly are of effect" something like the warp out prevention by some
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3169	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:39:12 - [737] - Quote Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Nope nope nope. This is patently ridiculous. First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related. Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this. You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
evan mclean Power Shift 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:43:19 - [738] - Quote Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Ahwall Utrigas wrote: This is a bad idea. I understand some damage reduction but this is a bit too much. Also, NPCs already target fighters 100% of the time. Whats the point in upping that? Exactly. Do not forget the sig radius nerf last update. gate guns rap my fighter every time there go's all my dps anyways to start now they nurf it more suck my balls ccp I hope you ban me fags.
Luna Ito Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:44:31 - [739] - Quote CCP will only listen to this
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 135	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:45:03 - [740] - Quote evan mclean wrote: Sterling Blades wrote: My issue with this nerf isn't from the carrier viewpoint side, but the structure utility side, as this is a blanket FIGHTER nerf, and not a direct carrier nerf. A hard chunk of citadel defensive DPS is getting stripped with this, making structure defense a mite more difficult. Its more an annoyance to me than anything else, as it still quantifies a strong force multiplier when utilized right even after the fighter nerfs hit on tuesday, but considering fighters are one of the few viable anti-subcap defenses in citadel reportoires right now(Point Defense and bomb launchers not withstanding), it seems a bit ill-thought since fighter changes don't just affect carriers anymore. sounds like a carebear problem and carebears + ccp = lame ass game ehhhm, no there's no PVE content on a structure. I don't take over my fortizar's weapons to kill belt rats. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:45:11 - [741] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Nope nope nope. This is patently ridiculous. First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related. Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this. You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv You're right, it's much more healthy for the game to have a ton of afk players running havens while not actually playing the game. Because that makes sense.
Gip McCool Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:46:56 - [742] - Quote let's start ...the Fight for Fighter. Burn Jita
Barduck Martins Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc. 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:48:09 - [743] - Quote Lucy Callagan wrote: To all the people complaining that : "I can't plex my account anymore, ccp is so greedy they want me to pay it with RL money" Don't you understant that all the plexes that are in the game have been bought on CCP's website and therefore paying the sub in plex or RL money makes no difference to ccp ? But if i cant play enough time to buy plex ingame, and there be some hundred players in the saem situation wont it affect the plex Market and those o buy plex with money?
Captain Mctightpants Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:48:36 - [744] - Quote Burn Jita w/ alpha accounts!
Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 135	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:48:39 - [745] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Nope nope nope. This is patently ridiculous. First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related. Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this. You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv Then just make havens and sanctums gated deadspace. Carriers can't go in. Problem solved. If that's what the problem is? Carriers are still pvp machines, fighters still do capital level damage. There are better ways of fixing issues than the nerfhammer. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
John Covfefe School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:48:48 - [746] - Quote At this point, i don't think it matters what any of us say. CCP has consistently done what ever they want and not listened to the players.
Crashys Tr0pa de elite. Ghost Legion. 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:52:00 - [747] - Quote You sirs (CCP), with all due respect and without hiding my name, are idiots. * You make sure plexs get high enough to make player spend RL money instead of farm to pay gametime; * Then you nerf the miners to make mineral costs rise and ofc ship prices go up roof; * To finish, you nerf the ratting stuff to ensure players can't make isk to compensate all the 'economic balance' (this is a private joke for sure); As for me, i've been gather several members opinion (from other corps) and you have 50% of members of corps simply say that the game reach a level that is impossible for players to enjoy. You basically ensure that a player that needs to plex his account will need to spend at least twice the time doing his normal operations just to pay the game. This will take the gametime from the players that have "real lifes" that could be use on what really this game is about (space ships blow up) to simply be a SLAVE of ccp to farm money. I will for sure not be spending my few hours by farming isk just to pay you. And surely i will not be paying you anymore real life money. Joke... very bad joke. RIP
Luis Magalhaes Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:52:17 - [748] - Quote Sure nerf it... why not. P.S.: don't forget to nerf again the wh... they do way too much isk there...
Hank Templesmith Polaris Rising The Bastion 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:52:23 - [749] - Quote Really do something else Ccp. Anything is better than making every ship in the game ****.
Crashys Tr0pa de elite. Ghost Legion. 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:53:23 - [750] - Quote ah... and thanks for the sun. Very nice change and useful!

Vaktul Merciful Genocide FUBAR. 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:53:47 - [751] - Quote Anger'is strength wrote: Changes like this are why you loose subscribers. As if its not bad enough you guys encourage RMT through PLEX and destabilize the plex market causing a 300+mill inflation of Monthly PLEX costs, which half of eve called before it even happened. now you've moved on to wrecking some of your consumers source of paying for those PLEX. Please CCP stop being so bad at your job. Maybe we should just bot and exploit game-breaking bugs instead? Obviously that's the safer bet at this point. As long as you're not involved in RMT because that takes $$$ from their pockets they really don't seem to care about the ones grinding for their ISK using legit means.
Ysmir Erata KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:54:45 - [752] - Quote The root cause of the "economic crisis" here is that it's horrible to try to project power anywhere with the jump fatigue mechanics, therefore there's not much interest in leaving a home region. Why would I want to spend multiple days of my life jumping caps to find a fight or take space. Subcaps are worse unless you roll intercepters. Making a 30+ jump trip in a 250 man Battleship feet isn't fun. Even cruisers suck at that distance really. So don't act surprised when an organized group sits in a region and generates income when that's the last bit of real entertainment available.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3391	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:54:47 - [753] - Quote Crashys wrote: * You make sure plexs get high enough to make player spend RL money instead of farm to pay gametime; How many people really don't understand that subbing with CC make them less money so forcing you out of PLEXing is not their goal?
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 208	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:55:05 - [754] - Quote Captain Mctightpants wrote: Burn Jita w/ alpha accounts! Lol yes!
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3169	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:55:13 - [755] - Quote Panther X wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Nope nope nope. This is patently ridiculous. First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related. Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this. You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv Then just make havens and sanctums gated deadspace. Carriers can't go in. Problem solved. If that's what the problem is? Carriers are still pvp machines, fighters still do capital level damage. There are better ways of fixing issues than the nerfhammer. I don't disagree with that, and said as much upthread. The nerf to carrier ratting seems appropriate, the nerf to carrier PvP power seems heavy-handed and unwarranted (at least at this magnitude). "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Wolfstorm STK Scientific The Initiative. 30	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:56:56 - [756] - Quote So because CCP releases skill injectors and lets richies buy their way into SP now they broke the ever living snot out of the gameplay balance and instead of admitting it are now going about systematically screwing every player who isn't a power player over, with stupid change after stupid change. I've been making games professionally for over 20 years now and the level of incompetence on display by the design team is terrifying. This is not acceptable. You broke the game with the skill injectors, the rest of this nonsense is fallout from that horrible choice.
vinihood1 Falcoes Peregrinos Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:57:10 - [757] - Quote So CCP want more AFK ishtars ? Ok
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3393	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:58:24 - [758] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Panther X wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Nope nope nope. This is patently ridiculous. First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related. Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this. You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv Then just make havens and sanctums gated deadspace. Carriers can't go in. Problem solved. If that's what the problem is? Carriers are still pvp machines, fighters still do capital level damage. There are better ways of fixing issues than the nerfhammer. I don't disagree with that, and said as much upthread. The nerf to carrier ratting seems appropriate, the nerf to carrier PvP power seems heavy-handed and unwarranted (at least at this magnitude). They should of started with an actual NERF bat, not a Louiseville slugger...
Empanada KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:59:17 - [759] - Quote Jen Makanen wrote: First off, I'm going to say this: I've never been one for carrier ratting. I just don't enjoy the idea of ratting and fielding that much isk for an activity I can do easier for far less work. From a PvP stand point though, Carriers have been in a dire state for a while now and this will further knock them down. I can't comment on the supercarrier side of this change, but I will say it's probably quite over the top. As many people have said here, EVE is in the middle of probably the largest cold war since its release (at least for me it feels this way), entities are scrounging for as many resources as they possibly can, so that when the next great war kicks off we can all jump in our ships and give the boot to whoever needs it the most without worrying so much about our wallets. I do a lot of theorycrafting, as I'm sure many other posters here do. I also do a lot of testing, both on TQ and on SISI/TD when the time allows it. I can catergorically tell you that carriers are already weak. As a carrier pilot, you spend ridiculous amounts of time training into this fabled ship, only to see it go through so many balance passes from being an effective cap killer and logistics platform that required skill and finese into an effective subcap killer where we saw them being used solo for some interesting content to whatever the hell they are now. I agree a carrier shouldn't be able to solo a competent gang. I agree there must be counterplay so I could somewhat forgive the initial nerf carriers faced after the changes and the introduction of the NSA to both the baby carrier and the supercarrier. BUT, going from being able to effectively fight off small gangs of ships with a lone carrier to being locked down by a single griffin? You can't be serious. Not only can my fighters not track said griffin, but now they can't even lock him so who cares. I can't see any scenario where it isn't better to drop 5 HAW dreads on a gang than to drop 5 carriers on the same gang. FAX are supposed to be DPS support ships. Why would anyone commit a carrier in a capital fight when they can't hit the broadside of a barn without bucket loads of tracking? Plus, a dread will always be better than a carrier in a capital fight. Oh, and not forgetting the fact a dread also has a fleet hanger and SMA, so the ONE thing carriers had sacred isn't even there to persuade people who just want a suitcase, when you can get a dread far quicker for that purpose. Oh and while I'm on about support; if I wanted to be a giant capital bhaalgorn, I'd fly an ACTUAL bhaalgorn. Even with these changes coming to pirate faction ships, a few bhaalgorns will still probably be cheaper than a carrier and equally if not more effective? Now; from a PvE perspective, heres my two cents: - Nerf the ratting bounties? - Make anoms respawn slower, forcing people to move systems, hence making ratting more risky and active. - Incursions? Think about those, just saying. - Oh, and improve NPC AI and increase rat EHP? And quite frankly, if someone has spent the best part of half a year training to sit in this ship and wants to use it for ratting, they should make more than Mr Alpha in a free account VNI. You're forgetting the sheer amount of effort that goes into training and piloting a carrier -- even just for ratting, god forbid those people be rewarded for their invest to the game, cmon guys. TLDR: Are you sure CCP? Might wanna review the PvP side of EVE. you should listen your player base CCP.... like this guy, he have a very awesome point over here. carriers need, a lot of character skills + player skills + attention on map + very high resources risk on greed. , also, you recent changes will hurt a lot of little guys on new Eden. the anomalies for miners and now carrier castration will not be good for the little corps or alliances who have to pay rent on null sec and only have 1 or 2 systems on they grasp.
Ryzelll Vector Galactic Shadow Cartel 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:59:47 - [760] - Quote Let's take this to Reddit boy's http://imgur.com/a/aqCf9

Change Underpants Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:59:49 - [761] - Quote CCP how about deleting all capital ships,we do not need them,or best solution for CCP delete Delve region with all assets and players....Nerf Rattlesnake to he is to strong...nerf everything...Give me back my skill points.... THIEVES
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3393	Posted - 2017.06.09 18:59:54 - [762] - Quote vinihood1 wrote: So CCP want more AFK ishtars ? Ok That's a thing that should go if they think too much ISK enter the economy but... :CCP:
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16080	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:04:01 - [763] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Panther X wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Vaktul wrote: This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch. Yup Yup yup Nope nope nope. This is patently ridiculous. First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related. Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this. You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv Then just make havens and sanctums gated deadspace. Carriers can't go in. Problem solved. If that's what the problem is? Carriers are still pvp machines, fighters still do capital level damage. There are better ways of fixing issues than the nerfhammer. I don't disagree with that, and said as much upthread. The nerf to carrier ratting seems appropriate, the nerf to carrier PvP power seems heavy-handed and unwarranted (at least at this magnitude). I'm a bit concerned about the pvp thing too. But gates would make anomalies too safe, and the last thing any part of EVE PVE (especially null sec liquid isk spewing anoms) needs is more safety. They put gates on Havens and you'll see me doing nothing but Havens with Multiboxing my mach and 2 FoF/Sentry drones rattlesnakes and running away as soon as anything appears on d-scan. Additionally I could probably kill a Tackling T3 in a gated haven before his friends could arrive with as much DPS as I have, and gated means dead space so no cynos in a gated haven/sanctum (as I recall, if they don't make it deadspace then people can just warp in from normal space defeating the purpose of the gate, probably a legacy code thing). I know people think gated anoms are a good idea but that's trying to fix a symptom when you know you have a cure for the disease but don't want to use it. The fighters caused the problem, so the fighters are getting fixed.
Duke Heuer Vector Galactic Shadow Cartel 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:06:13 - [764] - Quote 6 accounts unsubbed.....end of summer is the end of EVE for me
Beta Maoye 164	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:07:14 - [765] - Quote Alternative to fighter nerf, the game could buff everything else to match the streaming speed of isk from carrier ratting.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 210	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:07:35 - [766] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: vinihood1 wrote: So CCP want more AFK ishtars ? Ok That's a thing that should go if they think too much ISK enter the economy but... :CCP: CCP is a brilliant group of people. Much wow.
Jeison Frenzy Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:09:12 - [767] - Quote Jeison Frenzy wrote: This nerf bring Damage bonused carriers at level 4 to the same dmg as an un-bonused carrier. By nerfing the fighters your unduly hurting the tank carriers the most, when they are not the issue. A far more effective nerf would be a reduction of the damage bonus of the Nidhoggur and Thanatos to 3% by level, along with a 5% base fighter dmg nerf and IMO the equivalent of 1 T2 Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer bonuses as a nerf to the application instead, this will drive fits to work in more Tracking when shooting sub-caps especially for shield carriers that currently only typically use DDAs in most combat fits. To continue this, another way to nerf ratting carriers without harming PVP fits as much is to nerf Capital Hyperspaital rigs and lows, or make ascendancy not apply to capitals above freighters.
evan mclean Power Shift 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:09:16 - [768] - Quote they most be reading my post remove my last one lol
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3169	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:09:43 - [769] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I'm a bit concerned about the pvp thing too. But gates would make anomalies too safe, and the last thing any part of EVE PVE (especially null sec liquid isk spewing anoms) needs is more safety. They put gates on Havens and you'll see me doing nothing but Havens with Multiboxing my mach and 2 FoF/Sentry drones rattlesnakes and running away as soon as anything appears on d-scan. Additionally I could probably kill a Tackling T3 in a gated haven before his friends could arrive with as much DPS as I have, and gated means dead space so no cynos in a gated haven/sanctum (as I recall, if they don't make it deadspace then people can just warp in from normal space defeating the purpose of the gate, probably a legacy code thing). I know people think gated anoms are a good idea but that's trying to fix a symptom when you know you have a cure for the disease but don't want to use it. The fighters caused the problem, so the fighters are getting fixed. ...blinks... Wow, WTF, I missed the gate part entirely when I was responding to that - not sure what happened there. Yeah, I don't agree with that, specifically - I'd have just liked to have seen the issue addressed without a 20-30% (wtf) tweak that affects PvP just as much. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
evan mclean Power Shift 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:11:26 - [770] - Quote I looking to get banned form the game whats the best way to do this?

Actus Reyus SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:12:37 - [771] - Quote Just to clarify, I HATE carrier ratting, and if they had found a way to just nerf isk generation from carriers and supers I wouldn't even care. It's that I just spent a large amount of effort to get a super built because I had some time off and now it's getting a massive PVP nerf.
Namii Chikyuu Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:13:50 - [772] - Quote uptick in PVE sense it's not worth mining hmmm so now you are just going to make it so nothing is truly worth the time or risk. You realize you're in a boat middle of the ocean and you're drilling holes in the bottom of the hull. Why are you trying to sabotage the game. Fix ore mineral compositions so mineral market is fine with rorqs mining what they originally were so ships are dirt cheap and more people fly them to get them blown up generating content. Making it harder to get isk or mins is only crippling people from getting into ships and blowing them up. All these things are just going to make things more expensive IE more risk to fly so people will avoid a fight/content. Meanwhile the ones who have already benefited from the past use of game mechanics stay ahead either with crazy fat wallets or MASSIVE mineral reserves that no one has a chance at catching up. instead of leveling the playing field you are literally hollowing out the center where a majority of your players are and leaving once side with Tons of isk and on the other CRAP TONS of minerals. leaving massive status curves no one will be able to climb resulting in frustration/unsubs and you as a corporation losing revenue. I love this game LOVE the people regrettably I do not have the contacts nor many friends but still it seems you're trying to burn your own house down around you and the rest of us. Please instead of trying to bash everything with a poorly aimed nerf hammer leave the mechanics that are being used to balance things out and instead redirect that energy IE letting the isk faucet flow and redo the mineral compositions in null to be pointed at super production so there is less low end mineral waste that ends up in HS and tanking min market. Strive to get ships cheap again so we see more diverse fleets that anyone can afford and because of that they fight instead of run. Hell want to make a knee jerk nerf hit have an event where rogue drones or drifters destroy space preventing jump drives on combat ships from working so null power blocks get broken up. Long story short stop taking away all the reward while pushing micro transactions for actually playing instead of making the game pay to win just to line your coffers.
Vaktul Merciful Genocide FUBAR. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:14:30 - [773] - Quote Wolfstorm wrote: So because CCP releases skill injectors and lets richies buy their way into SP now they broke the ever living snot out of the gameplay balance and instead of admitting it are now going about systematically screwing every player who isn't a power player over, with stupid change after stupid change. I've been making games professionally for over 20 years now and the level of incompetence on display by the design team is terrifying. This is not acceptable. You broke the game with the skill injectors, the rest of this nonsense is fallout from that horrible choice.
Kalchak Polaris Rising The Bastion 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:14:37 - [774] - Quote CCP releases Rorqual changes, Imperium works out efficient methods to mine the crap out of delve, CCP nerfs rorquals. Imeprium moves to carrier ratting, CCP nerfs carrirs... Imperium moves to Hi-Sec Incursions, CCP... I think i just fixed Hi-Sec incursions!
ISD Chanisa Nemes ISD Community Communications Liaisons 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:15:15 - [775] - Quote Removed some offensive and off-topic posts. Please post constructively guys Here are some cute puppies for you all to lift things up a little bit! ISD Chanisa Nemes Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Shig Tawny Ceptacemia DARKNESS. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:17:13 - [776] - Quote Terrible approach. Honesty this is inline with the over simplified/ineffective sweeping nerfs that have been applied this year. Is it too much to ask that CCP take the time to develop intelligent nerfs rather than over simplified (seamingly intuitive) approaches? CCP's response: NERF EVERYTHING, NERF RORQS, NERF RORQS, NERF FIGHTERS, NERG RORQ AGAIN, NERF FIGHTERS AGAIN. Seems like the decision process making behind these nerfs is pretty flawed. If there is a problem in the trends, reducing the entire system with a constant (.7 in this case) doesn't change the trends, just the magnitude. Steering user behavior is accomplished using this focus on trends approach, this nerf is simply cutting the user off at the knees and expecting them to enjoy it. oh and the rorqual pvp nerf, also very half baked. PS THANKS TO CCP FOR INSPIRING ME NOT TO ATTEND EVE VEGAS!!! mmm money saved.
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 685	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:18:07 - [777] - Quote Petrified wrote: If the issue is that rewards are too easy, then nerfing something used in both PvP and PvE does not make a lot of sense. People will simply change to another ship that will give the damage output they desire for running sites. Perhaps the problem is the availability of sites and the need to improve NPC responses to attack types. Maybe what you really need to do, instead of hurting a tool used for both PvP and PvE, is reduce the number of sites that spawn. If you reduce the number of sites which spawn, even with max IHUB upgrades, you will help Sov Null Sec by creating more of a demand to expand territory which will create more PvP. By reducing Fighter damage, you reduce the PvP capabilities of not just carriers and super carriers, but also of Citadels (and fighter support from citadels is laughably weak from my experience). By reducing the effectiveness of a tool used in more than just PvE, you miss fixing the target... which is to reduce an isk faucet. So instead of reducing the effectiveness of fighters, why not reduce reduce the number of sites instead? This.
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 24	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:20:44 - [778] - Quote CCP just proved once again that it went from a "we care about community feedback" to a greedy Electronic Arts type company, just sit back and take a look at this june patch.. its full of nerf's to the most popular of ships.. they also oddly enough have pushed Plex and buy plex down our throats right before a HUGE nerf.. and it seems like they're nerf'ing everything to earn income.. nerf on caps, nerf on t3c's, nerf even on damn loot ( they haven't really brought that bullchit up yet.. but just you wait ) they are literally changing the game mechanics on the fly so a person is forced to buy plex. now this.. yet another change to caps.. cause they cant simply do their math right and seemingly comparing cap usage for all of null sec is the same.. hello not everyone is PL who lives by titan dropping, jet-setting supers, running around in deep systems earning 154mil tics from popping caps in a remote limited system that's off way from every fawking connection in NULL SEC... CCP YOU NEED TO FIX NULL SEC! you continue gimping us and pretending like ISK is a fawking faucet when in fact it isn't.. WHAT BOUT ALL THAT DARN CAP RATTING GOING ON IN WORMHOLES!>> WHAT ABOUT THAT!... WHAT ABOUT THAT ISK INCOME FROM C5's, C6's what about that!..
Captain Zulu Avalanche. Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:20:44 - [779] - Quote People dont actually like ratting, personally i'm not a fan of carrier ratting but i have to do it to pay for my accounts and my pvp ships. Now i have to carrier rat MORE to afford to play this game and afford my ships. Not the best idea to roll this out as summer begins
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 210	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:21:19 - [780] - Quote Shig Tawny wrote: Terrible approach. Honesty this is inline with the over simplified/ineffective sweeping nerfs that have been applied this year. Is it too much to ask that CCP take the time to develop intelligent nerfs rather than over simplified (seamingly intuitive) approaches? CCP's response: NERF EVERYTHING, NERF RORQS, NERF RORQS, NERF FIGHTERS, NERG RORQ AGAIN, NERF FIGHTERS AGAIN. Seems like the decision process making behind these nerfs is pretty flawed. If there is a problem in the trends, reducing the entire system with a constant (.7 in this case) doesn't change the trends, just the magnitude. Steering user behavior is accomplished using this focus on trends approach, this nerf is simply cutting the user off at the knees and expecting them to enjoy it. oh and the rorqual pvp nerf, also very half baked. PS THANKS TO CCP FOR INSPIRING ME NOT TO ATTEND EVE VEGAS!!! mmm money saved. I really don't understand why CCP thinks they can continue to make really really bad and unpopular changes and think the game will survive. Look at the concurrent logins. They have fallen a few thousands below the pre F2P release... Like honestly.

Ghengis Khuan Tr0pa de elite. Ghost Legion. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:21:26 - [781] - Quote Well, that 's how you lose even more players. Consider that you are having problems with the online numbers and instead creating something that can attract more people to join EVE community, you are actually atempting to expel players from it and you are doing ALL THIS while entering in the summer period...friendly reminder...the biggest part of the EVE community will be on vacations so that's not much for their return. Well, regarding what you said about having some balance on markets...your eager to nerf the tools that people still have to make ISK in order to balance the market won't affect the big sharks, those sharks who own the markets, the production lines of capitals. That same eager will aftect the link between players and the game, of those who seek to rat all day long, of those who mine all day long, of those who like to PVP in big fleets, small roams, gatecamps, wormholes... For those same PVPers, cheering in the comments, who seek a nice oportunity to attack the fellow capsuleers trought wormholes because they are the "elite", i'll enjoy when i see that they are going to miss a healthy number of targets in a short period... now you can see a new atempt to kill EVE once again, in a premium spot, ticket free. BTW, you can always nerf guns and the tank itself, no point to have them, they seem to be OP to me, maybe sticks and rocks work better! Well CCP, shame to see this happen... (PS: you don't really give a damn about player's opinions) o7
Vaktul Merciful Genocide FUBAR. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:22:57 - [782] - Quote ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote: Removed some offensive and off-topic posts. Please post constructively guys Here are some cute puppies for you all to lift things up a little bit! [img]https://media.giphy.com/media/bmrxNoGqGNMAM/giphy.gif[/img] Removes off-topic posts. Makes an off-topic post. Be careful though, if those puppies are too effective at being cute CPP will nerf them into the ground too.
Ryzelll Vector Galactic Shadow Cartel 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:23:30 - [783] - Quote Abracadabra unsubbed
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 16	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:23:58 - [784] - Quote Why do we think that CCP reads all these comments? They don't really give a **** about this. But if they do...i have a question: Did you hire some sales guys from EA dear CCP?
Caitlyn Mabata Cait-Land 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:24:34 - [785] - Quote ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote: Removed some offensive and off-topic posts. Please post constructively guys Here are some cute puppies for you all to lift things up a little bit! [img]https://media.giphy.com/media/bmrxNoGqGNMAM/giphy.gif[/img] Too many people were looking at those puppies and it was unintended, so we actually had to kill 20% of them off and make predators 15% more likely to attack them.
Pier Rin State War Academy Caldari State 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:26:12 - [786] - Quote Frosty Indica wrote: If it makes goonswarm cry, its a good move by ccp. You guys are great entertainment. Did you bother to read about this isk "hose" only benifiting a few players ? You dont cry a single tear when they makes changes to make being a pirate easier, but if they nurf your big shinny isk hose, you act like the game is about to end. Please quit now, less goons=the world a better place. yeah img all of goons + friends gone.... Rip eve, they represent more then 50% of all the eve players. Just saying
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:26:34 - [787] - Quote Gip McCool wrote: let's start ...the Fight for Fighter. Burn Jita AT is coming up just get a sit out of all teams
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 7	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:28:14 - [788] - Quote Crashys wrote: You sirs (CCP), with all due respect and without hiding my name, are idiots. * You make sure plexs get high enough to make player spend RL money instead of farm to pay gametime; * Then you nerf the miners to make mineral costs rise and ofc ship prices go up roof; * To finish, you nerf the ratting stuff to ensure players can't make isk to compensate all the 'economic balance' (this is a private joke for sure); As for me, i've been gather several members opinion (from other corps) and you have 50% of members of corps simply say that the game reach a level that is impossible for players to enjoy. You basically ensure that a player that needs to plex his account will need to spend at least twice the time doing his normal operations just to pay the game. This will take the gametime from the players that have "real lifes" that could be use on what really this game is about (space ships blow up) to simply be a SLAVE of ccp to farm money. I will for sure not be spending my few hours by farming isk just to pay you. And surely i will not be paying you anymore real life money. Joke... very bad joke. RIP you said it friend!! AT Strike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 210	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:28:37 - [789] - Quote Pier Rin wrote: Frosty Indica wrote: If it makes goonswarm cry, its a good move by ccp. You guys are great entertainment. Did you bother to read about this isk "hose" only benifiting a few players ? You dont cry a single tear when they makes changes to make being a pirate easier, but if they nurf your big shinny isk hose, you act like the game is about to end. Please quit now, less goons=the world a better place. yeah img all of goons + friends gone.... Rip eve, they represent more then 50% of all the eve players. Just saying There are people in Null that aren't goons and PL you know...
Ida Aurlien HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 92	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:28:50 - [790] - Quote CCP makes or lets you find a nitch that you wanna work towards but you will never achieve as the bar moves monthly. game over -3 Terrible terrible logic on their part. You make alpha clones to bring in more players to the game and run omega players off ?? All my accts have been subbed so as soon as they expire. think gonna call it done

Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3393	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:28:53 - [791] - Quote Vaktul wrote: Wolfstorm wrote: So because CCP releases skill injectors and lets richies buy their way into SP now they broke the ever living snot out of the gameplay balance and instead of admitting it are now going about systematically screwing every player who isn't a power player over, with stupid change after stupid change. I've been making games professionally for over 20 years now and the level of incompetence on display by the design team is terrifying. This is not acceptable. You broke the game with the skill injectors, the rest of this nonsense is fallout from that horrible choice. There's a lot of truth to this. I think Skill Injectors should be removed period. First CPP screwed up be introducing them into the game, then they screwed up again by ignoring a game-breaking exploit for months, and now they've screwed up *yet again* by ignoring people sitting on trillions of ISK worth of "illegally farmed" SP. But hey, at least life is going to get harder for people trying to make ISK through legit means, right? Who even cares about pvp and structure security? They're reasonable causalities apparently. The injectors are an amplifier. Whatever is broken has everybody jump on the new FOTM much faster. If they constantly made small iteration to things so they never stay a long time broken it would not be that big of a deal but stuff stay in the same state for months giving MANY people time to hop on the bandwagon and then the nerfs come and everyone who joined is mad because they get nerfed forgetting the fact they all had jumped on a bandwagon because for many of them, it's been months since they did the jump.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 210	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:35:09 - [792] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Vaktul wrote: Wolfstorm wrote: So because CCP releases skill injectors and lets richies buy their way into SP now they broke the ever living snot out of the gameplay balance and instead of admitting it are now going about systematically screwing every player who isn't a power player over, with stupid change after stupid change. I've been making games professionally for over 20 years now and the level of incompetence on display by the design team is terrifying. This is not acceptable. You broke the game with the skill injectors, the rest of this nonsense is fallout from that horrible choice. There's a lot of truth to this. I think Skill Injectors should be removed period. First CPP screwed up be introducing them into the game, then they screwed up again by ignoring a game-breaking exploit for months, and now they've screwed up *yet again* by ignoring people sitting on trillions of ISK worth of "illegally farmed" SP. But hey, at least life is going to get harder for people trying to make ISK through legit means, right? Who even cares about pvp and structure security? They're reasonable causalities apparently. The injectors are an amplifier. Whatever is broken has everybody jump on the new FOTM much faster. If they constantly made small iteration to things so they never stay a long time broken it would not be that big of a deal but stuff stay in the same state for months giving MANY people time to hop on the bandwagon and then the nerfs come and everyone who joined is mad because they get nerfed forgetting the fact they all had jumped on a bandwagon because for many of them, it's been months since they did the jump. They have nerfed fighters every month for the last 2-3 months sooo...
Crashys Tr0pa de elite. Ghost Legion. 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:37:15 - [793] - Quote This nerf is awesome. My wife is very happy, she's telling me i should stop playing for so long that i believe she's right. Playing this game for more than 10 years the only good thing i see actually is better and more prettier graphics... One cool ship here, one cool ship there... TiDi, mysterious crashes, more mysterious 'economic balances', do a player spend 1 year of game play and invest a huge amount of ISK and then... change the game and the entire last year resumes to NOTHING. Truly, thank you for this change.
blackmamba230 Pappotte Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:39:25 - [794] - Quote CCP the only thing that makes for your damn stupidmistake to nerf carrier AGAIN is ...... GOONS tears ohh man they are worth it :PPPPPPPPP cheers !!
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:40:01 - [795] - Quote ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote: Removed some offensive and off-topic posts. Please post constructively guys Here are some cute puppies for you all to lift things up a little bit! [img]https://media.giphy.com/media/bmrxNoGqGNMAM/giphy.gif[/img] if you company did there job this wouldnt happen friend
Starspy Surain Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:42:12 - [796] - Quote nerf goons/ and #KICKASCEE
blackmamba230 Pappotte Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:43:12 - [797] - Quote This is when CCP knows........ they ****** up you are losing alot of players due to this im canceling my cap account trasfering it to my main no more of my real money going to you ccp
evan mclean Power Shift 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:43:52 - [798] - Quote I hope isis kills your dog.
The Mach Chemical Dependency. ChaosTheory. 10	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:44:37 - [799] - Quote Can i have my 20b back pls CCP??? Also did you know that if you just make the graph smaller on your screen it will look the same after the patch. IF making the game less fun is your goal and getting veteran players to UNSUB, then this will do that very well.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 20	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:47:15 - [800] - Quote The Mach wrote: Can i have my 20b back pls CCP??? Also did you know that if you just make the graph smaller on your screen it will look the same after the patch. IF making the game less fun is your goal and getting veteran players to UNSUB, then this will do that very well. Why do you think they care about veteran players and player morale? $

Sumo Sabezan ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:48:55 - [801] - Quote Lmao, why even let us have ISK at all?
evan mclean Power Shift 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:49:19 - [802] - Quote I use to be a troll on eve but now that game sucks so this is where I troll.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 20	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:49:23 - [803] - Quote The Mach wrote: Can i have my 20b back pls CCP??? Also did you know that if you just make the graph smaller on your screen it will look the same after the patch. IF making the game less fun is your goal and getting veteran players to UNSUB, then this will do that very well. Oh...and btw, have you ever experienced that CCP gave back anything when you felt that something is unfair? They can't even respond to a ticket for months...
Cyrenius Crendraven Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:53:12 - [804] - Quote Here's a novel idea. How about you increase the downtime between site respawns instead of "its broke get the nerf bat" I'm sure in CCPs infinite wisdom they could calculate the proper amount of time between respawns that would decrease the amount of isk/hr a carrier/super would make and still not affect smaller ships ratting sites. Vni = 20+ minutes. Carrier = ~10min. Super\smartbombing bs = ~4.5min. I mean c'mon, the same thing has been mentioned about the 5 hour dt of colossals right?? Why can't the same thing happen for amoms without gimpimg pvp potential of ships people invest in?
Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:54:56 - [805] - Quote rhiload Feron-drake wrote: im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap. Based Rhiload gets it. Carriers/Supers are already in a somewhat poor state in PvP outside of memeing, dreads are the actual killer and decider of fights. I mean, that and mass DD titans.
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:55:59 - [806] - Quote Ok so next patch we will be buying ships directly from CCP Is that you are heading for?
Kharador Harakoron Special Tactical Arm's Research Laboratories Tactical Narcotics Team 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:59:32 - [807] - Quote I never post here but i must now... -3 acc
Asset Confiscation Officer Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:59:49 - [808] - Quote Nerfing damage, possibly acceptable IF accompanied by an increase in fighter health and / or speed. Making fighters collect even more aggro than they already do, NOT acceptable at all, without a serious increase in fighter health. In short, unbalanced nerfs where you either, "give and not take" or you, "take and not give", often turns out badly.
Shogun A Air The Initiative. 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 19:59:54 - [809] - Quote CCP are happy for a 3 Bill BS in hi sec to make 200mill an hour in incursions 3Bill Carrier making 150mill an hour in Null is unacceptable to CCP They have the whole risk/reward thing completely backwards Its an atrocious change
Wierd Beard Imperium Technologies Army of New Eden 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:00:08 - [810] - Quote If you wanted another big war, just bring back Lenny Kravitz2 and the casinos. They seemed to generate plenty of controversy and content and focus the ire of the proletariat away from the Boyars of CCP. Never thought the cries of "Unassailable wealth!" would ring sweetly in hindsight. EA Games, here we come!

Winston 4Head Out of Focus Odin's Call 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:04:48 - [811] - Quote so rattlesnake is basically a better option to rat with now, and you have carriers being useless both pve and pvp-wise where are you going with these changes ?
Aeron Deyanira Hashshashin Inc. Spectre Fleet Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:04:56 - [812] - Quote So you arent making enough @86mil/year and now need to nerf this, so more people will have to buy plex with real money? Because thats the only real reason i can see for such ridiculous nerfs.
Soulis Sectar Moosearmy Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:08:00 - [813] - Quote I've been playing EVE for a long time and I'd like to think i'm their ideal customer. I pay for my subs (3of them currently) in RL money, I regularly Buy plex ($200-300/month) to fund the things i want to do ingame (injectors, ships, skins, etc) and i've played in most of the different scenarios the game offers from straight ratting to incursion running to WH expl, to big fleet fights and some basic one on one pvp. I play a few hours a day and change what i do on a regular basis. I choose what i want to do in game because its fun and keeps me engaged. I'm not a player that multi boxes or afk rats. I chose to get into a carrier because it was fun, needed my input and could make a reliable income. The issue for me personally is that now someone else is deciding what i want to do in the game for me. After I've spent time, RL money and effort to be able to do this one thing. I get that carriers are powerful and for the investment they should be. My current Nid gets 3375 dps... if i lose 20% of that it goes down to 2700 then i'll lose even more because I'm not going to field t2 fighters(because of increased aggro) so thats another 10% drop so more like 2500 total dps. I can fit a vindicator to get 2300dps and go run incursions in high sec at $150-200mil isk/ hour for significantly less investment than my $5+bil carrier and make just as much going forward. Tell me why this should be possible? its less time and isk investment and honestly alot less work to manage 1 account setup this way. To be honest I think alot of people will min-max this way, or find another faucet to open. Capitals and Super Caps should be better on their own than one or 2 subcaps... by a long shot.. heck i think a carrier should carry the force/income of 5x bs simply because of the degree of difficulty and cost of investment. But If i can out pace a carrier with a BS... why should i bother with that time/isk/RL investment? If you put a Carrier and a Battleship on a scale would they balance? Nope.. so why should they be balanced here... if you can afford to fly one you should reap the result.
Sabrephenix Pacht-Feng Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:08:57 - [814] - Quote - 3 acc
Foch This Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:09:42 - [815] - Quote I unsubbed, and will be unsubbing all accounts. Clearly the only goal here is nerf any isk making opportunities EXCEPT hi sec incursions. This is an effort for ccp to sell more plex....so no thanks. Its been real.
Sal'am Gu'itza2 Evil Dutch Bastards System Wide Adaptive Roam Massacres 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:10:22 - [816] - Quote So you people are nerfing carrier so more people buy plex with real money, thinking you're about to boost your income. Guess what, you're only going to lose a lot of your player base. Lets see CCP make money off this game when you're left with 1 k active players. It's gonna be the GMs and NPCs in space. And no, I don't fly caps, i don't want to fly caps, but i'm looking around and all i see is my friends thinking about quitting EVE
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:10:23 - [817] - Quote Lack of end content = nerf so they will think that the old "end content" is new brilliant
Raz Keriz 17th PARSEC Red Alliance 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:15:12 - [818] - Quote -2 acc #UNSUBEVE
VvykiZ Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:15:27 - [819] - Quote 1st post on forums cool changes. -3 acc
Neva Second Extreme Agony Fidelas Constans 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:16:04 - [820] - Quote I don't hold out much hope that CCP will actually take any of the player base feedback seriously but here goes. If the isk faucet issue is the catalyst for the nerf it makes much more sense to decrease the value of the anom than it does to diminish the power of the ship. Ships are finite entities whose destruction through pvp/pve activity maintain the needed cycle of production. You want players excited to sit in these big hulls and play space pixels and you should want as many players as possible doing so. PVP is self correcting, every fleet has a counter, even if the counter is just more of the same, so please don't advertise a nerf as some sort of balancing for the sake of player content/fairness. We don't want this balance, if your concerned that our wallets are too fat then cut the value of the anoms and force carrier ratters to play longer for the same amount of isk. This also has the added benefit of giving hunters more juicy targets....and the cycle repeats.

Kaelke Evil Dutch Bastards System Wide Adaptive Roam Massacres 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:17:01 - [821] - Quote *unsubs 4 carrier alts So, when you can pay every single employee, including volunteers, 143k a year, that still isnt enough?
GetWrekt Nerds From Ashes 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:18:21 - [822] - Quote -1 subbed account.....ccp ruining eve so they can work on VR....time for some Elite Dangerous
Jasdemi KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:19:14 - [823] - Quote -1 account. I'm glad Albion Online is just around the corner.
jura Kurvora Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:19:14 - [824] - Quote -1 subscriber.....its been real. TIme to move on.
Jacob Farron Clone Snatchers Solyaris Chtonium 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:20:15 - [825] - Quote Only a few days after I spend almost 10 bil on injectors :(
Pier Rin State War Academy Caldari State 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:20:22 - [826] - Quote Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Pier Rin wrote: Frosty Indica wrote: If it makes goonswarm cry, its a good move by ccp. You guys are great entertainment. Did you bother to read about this isk "hose" only benifiting a few players ? You dont cry a single tear when they makes changes to make being a pirate easier, but if they nurf your big shinny isk hose, you act like the game is about to end. Please quit now, less goons=the world a better place. yeah img all of goons + friends gone.... Rip eve, they represent more then 50% of all the eve players. Just saying There are people in Null that aren't goons and PL you know... what you think will happen, if more then 50% of the player base disappears????
Koteth Silverwolf Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:20:34 - [827] - Quote CCP's new motto: Ruining communities one nerf at a time
evan mclean Power Shift 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:20:56 - [828] - Quote I hope ccp see all the money they are going to lose by doing this.
lilol' me Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 86	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:21:17 - [829] - Quote sorry so a 25bill ship making 150m hr is bad? **** i would expect more isk tbh.
Matthias Ancaladron Wrath of Angels Solitaire. 341	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:21:27 - [830] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Why don't you add all the way down to 1/10s to null sec so there's an easier entry point for new players making the leap into nullsec that gives them more options for low end pve. Problem isn't bounties it's high end players who can sit in the hardest sites afk while new players can't even get anything below a 7/10. The bounties should be left alone. Changes to bounties and NPC drop rates just hurts less experienced players. Does not affect established players at all except increase the wealth gap.

Arsig Dadunur Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:22:08 - [831] - Quote CCP seems determined to alienate the player (customer) base. The stated reasons for the nerf defy logic and it seems more likely that CCP is realigning towards a micro-transaction type game vs true sandbox. The solution to changing the game is developing new engaging content versus taking content and abilities (skills) from the players. Also, why don't you try listening to what the players want versus smashing morale and game play with oppressive, fun-policing patches. If a sandbox is broken and needs stimulation then add new toys! You don't replace the current toys with less useful and more boring versions and then expect things to get better. If you want to reduce inflation or the amount of ISK being generated then do it on the PvE side. Nerf bounties, re-spawn rates, etc. related to carrier ratting but don't smash the PvP abilities of carrier itself. Carrier and supercarrier DPS is currently appropriate if not a little light for PvP. They are end-game PvP ships and should be powerful in their own right not just when they're part of a huge blob. The fighter nerf is ridiculously strong considering the time and cost to obtain those ships and drops them below whats reasonable to bring to a fight. Now with the sig radius and DPS reductions carriers will be quickly defanged and poof, you're an expensive space brick. CCP should listen to it's players.
Boston Grambo Caldari Petroleum Army of New Eden 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:22:28 - [832] - Quote These changes are absolutely uncalled for. Here's a few reasons why. 1.) You have bigger issues with AFK Ishtars/Vexors making 15-20m ISK per tick, doing the most minimal amount of work. 2.) The investment required to acquire/train/purchase a super carrier should already balance "impact" supers have. 3.) Ratting in a SUPER is a much more dangerous act than ratting in a Ishtar/VNI. 4.) Stop gimping, and reduce the bounty. I also believe that any CSM who supports these patch changes should be recalled. -Boston
Kym Sorenson Lone Wolf Union Yulai Federation 30	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:23:45 - [833] - Quote This is a bad change because it screws over capital PvP. You're going to lose people. This is something that wasn't broken. If you want less carrier PvE, gate the anoms so carriers can't enter. This isn't rocket science, it just requires a tad more work on your part, instead of this terrible, ill-conceived nerf.
Firephli Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:24:14 - [834] - Quote OK ok , seems that this might not be the best decision by CCP, but if you guys are going to do that how about making/adding more types of Anoms, make loot drop more worth it. Maybe even up the salvage rates?
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 19	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:25:32 - [835] - Quote I also believe that any CSM who supports these patch changes should be recalled. I AGREE
prMoriarty Weyland-Yutani deep mining expedition Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:26:34 - [836] - Quote -1 acc, bb eve, hi real world and fishing i played with 2008 yr.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:27:10 - [837] - Quote Make a fking npc market with your own prices and new bind to player items if you want to withdraw isk from the game...
evan mclean Power Shift 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:28:20 - [838] - Quote ccp I will pay you to just stay home and not miss up the game anymore. just let me know the cost per mouth
Pimpel Betrak The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:28:21 - [839] - Quote Ok CCP... Now I can totally see the logic here.... A small number of players in the grand scheme spend months/years training supers. 30 bill plus on fits and ship.... And ...get a grade one crotch punch from ccp for having the audacity of using them to try to get some isk back. so....lets not tackle the issue of afk ratting in ishtars and VNI, noooooo cos the thousands doing that are totally not the issue... lets crotch punch the big guys...again.. How many bites of the cherry do CCP want and screwing up caps? Now I realise that you have to put the under achiever staff somewhere... but do you REALLLLLLY have to keep sticking them in the "lets blue ball" the big stuff team? seriously?
Stannis Mannist Imperial Guardians Tactical Narcotics Team 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:28:33 - [840] - Quote Is CCP intentionally trying to keep people from the game, are they secretly trying to liquidate... because these adjustment seem to be aimed at irking the active player... This is just not a bright move. Who do they have working over there?l

yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 51	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:30:45 - [841] - Quote If there were Goons complaining over here, ok, whatever. You have the whole damned Eve except highsec telling you this is bad. Lookup how governments fight currency inflation, I am pretty certain it is not cutting sallaries.
Random Lurker Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:31:32 - [842] - Quote Great changes! Carrier Ratting was a pita... CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
evan mclean Power Shift 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:31:32 - [843] - Quote Stannis Mannist wrote: Is CCP intentionally trying to keep people from the game, are they secretly trying to liquidate... because these adjustment seem to be aimed at irking the active player... This is just not a bright move. Who do they have working over there?l maybe they just want the game to end
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:32:55 - [844] - Quote So, with all the TQ instability today plus this nerf announcement, one has to wonder. Also the fact this nerf was posted today, just four days(?) before the change is supposed to happen, not cool. At least rorq guys got some time to digest their nerf and such, carrier and super pilots, which is way more than rorq pilots, got the short stick.
Neva Second Extreme Agony Fidelas Constans 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:33:01 - [845] - Quote Crazy idea CCP, bear with me cause your accountants will love it. 1) Don't allow players the ability to pay for subs with PLEX! That way you transform into a cash only system and in game pvp/pve content won't matter anymore, presto digito....no more tears when you make a change get it? Cause it won't matter, cause all the poor people will stop playing. -or- 2) Make the use of Plex for game time SP based; Got less than 25m SP? Your 30 days of game time is "X", over 25m but under 50m? "XX", over 50m but under 100m? "XXX", over 100m? "XXXX"! Holy fu*k, I should get a cut of every devs year end bonus cause this sh!t is solid gold!!!
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 27	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:34:37 - [846] - Quote KICK THE GOD DARN CSM OUT OF THEIR SEATS. THEY DO NOT STAND UP FOR THE COMMUNITY WHAT SO EVER!>.. they hell they go up there to visit ccp for?? NERF THE CSM! I CALL FOR RECALL I SUBMIT MY NO-CONFIDENCE VOTE! ABOLISH THE CSM
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:35:19 - [847] - Quote blackmamba230 Pappotte wrote: NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. Ratting carrier was expensive to replacing all the fighter lost my agrro already and you trying to increase the expenses of carrier ratting and tacking away damage WTF nerf whs you can make plexes over hours in that ** nerf incursions why the you mess with pvp....... no more cap fight no more faction BS Battles because ccp decided they wanted to balance the economy STFP then ban ghost training i can make over 10 bill in one month paying all the accounts with in game isk i used to enjoy carrier ratting you ** up CCP you **** up Hope u got a dread, fax or titan, because thats the only thing that will be used in cap pvp now. Not even supers will still be widely used I would think.
Random Lurker Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:36:53 - [848] - Quote Pimpel Betrak wrote: And ...get a grade one crotch punch from ccp for having the audacity of using them to try to get some isk back. so....lets not tackle the issue of afk ratting in ishtars and VNI, noooooo cos the thousands doing that are totally not the issue... lets crotch punch the big guys...again.. VNIs and Ishtars dont make near anywhere the amount an afk carrier does, I am talking 500m ticks..thats just not intended gameplay... sorry nullbears. There is nothing wrong with CCP trying to make changes because noone is perfect. Carriers were not intended to be used this way and they were a pain to compete against in a non capital ship class vessel. Not sure if reducing fighter damage overall was needed. Could have reduced the damage vs NPC targets only.
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 53	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:39:20 - [849] - Quote Random Lurker wrote: Pimpel Betrak wrote: And ...get a grade one crotch punch from ccp for having the audacity of using them to try to get some isk back. so....lets not tackle the issue of afk ratting in ishtars and VNI, noooooo cos the thousands doing that are totally not the issue... lets crotch punch the big guys...again.. VNIs and Ishtars dont make near anywhere the amount an afk carrier does, I am talking 500m ticks..thats just not intended gameplay... sorry nullbears. There is nothing wrong with CCP trying to make changes because noone is perfect. Carriers were not intended to be used this way and they were a pain to compete against in a non capital ship class vessel. Not sure if reducing fighter damage overall was needed. Could have reduced the damage vs NPC targets only. AKF carriers ? There is no such thing for quite a long time now chief.
Shogun A Air The Initiative. 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:40:45 - [850] - Quote Random Lurker wrote: Pimpel Betrak wrote: And ...get a grade one crotch punch from ccp for having the audacity of using them to try to get some isk back. so....lets not tackle the issue of afk ratting in ishtars and VNI, noooooo cos the thousands doing that are totally not the issue... lets crotch punch the big guys...again.. VNIs and Ishtars dont make near anywhere the amount an afk carrier does, I am talking 500m ticks..thats just not intended gameplay... sorry nullbears. There is nothing wrong with CCP trying to make changes because noone is perfect. Carriers were not intended to be used this way and they were a pain to compete against in a non capital ship class vessel. Not sure if reducing fighter damage overall was needed. Could have reduced the damage vs NPC targets only. 500mill ticks - someone is cluless - Supercarriers can get 150 at best - check your facts before posting in a discussion and Supercarrier ratting is very intensive - the clicking is endless

Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:41:04 - [851] - Quote Got into rorquals, got nerfed...than fast extract-inject-isk to super...got nerfed. I think this is all because of me...so i have to make these changes stop. -2
8RU74L Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:41:10 - [852] - Quote Afk carriers???How long have you been offline?
Rounon Dax Terra Nanotech Yulai Federation 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:41:42 - [853] - Quote Make NPC's shoot fighters all the time once they are out, carrier ratting issue solved :-P But honestly, this change is pretty bad. I mean, in a PvP situation a single Griffin can pretty effective render a Carrier useless at the moment. Lowering the damage output from fighters doesn't really help to keep pilots interested in having Carrier and Supers in a PvP situation. Dear CCP, don't change stuff that is not broken.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:41:51 - [854] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Got into rorquals, got nerfed...than fast extract-inject-isk to super...got nerfed. I think this is all because of me...so i have to make these changes stop. -3
Serininty KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:41:54 - [855] - Quote It seems such an incompetent way to run a game. Make shiny toys, then take them away. Make more shiny toys, take them away. Then ignore the customers.
szeredaiakos Terona DNS Requiem Cohortes Triarii 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:42:19 - [856] - Quote i guess i just stick with my ~1.5billion worth 2000 DPS battleship. no more need to SPEND THE DAMN ISK to upgrade and potentially lose a 4.5b fat ass droneboat.
Servo Libertas Military Gamers Tactical Narcotics Team 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:43:32 - [857] - Quote Random Lurker wrote: Pimpel Betrak wrote: And ...get a grade one crotch punch from ccp for having the audacity of using them to try to get some isk back. so....lets not tackle the issue of afk ratting in ishtars and VNI, noooooo cos the thousands doing that are totally not the issue... lets crotch punch the big guys...again.. VNIs and Ishtars dont make near anywhere the amount an afk carrier does, I am talking 500m ticks..thats just not intended gameplay... sorry nullbears. There is nothing wrong with CCP trying to make changes because noone is perfect. Carriers were not intended to be used this way and they were a pain to compete against in a non capital ship class vessel. Not sure if reducing fighter damage overall was needed. Could have reduced the damage vs NPC targets only. "AFK" carriers making 500mil ticks, would love to see that in action.
ISD Chanisa Nemes ISD Community Communications Liaisons 132	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:45:15 - [858] - Quote Removed some more offensive and off-topic posts. Please continue to be constructive, guys! And you don't get a cute gif this time since someone threatened to kill my puppies from the last one. ISD Chanisa Nemes Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
BaruCK Falcoes Peregrinos Pandemic Horde 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:46:18 - [859] - Quote CCP needs real money and they will nerf carriers with joy.
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:48:06 - [860] - Quote lilol' me wrote: sorry so a 25bill ship making 150m hr is bad? **** i would expect more isk tbh. You are doing it wrong dude I'm (was) doing 160m per tick with a perfect nyx (25b ship) and full attention of course Looks like time investment and learning how to play this game means nothing today...

Dan Sever XAOS RELOADED Legion of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:49:06 - [861] - Quote Do whatever you want, just don't touch afk ratting ships like gila, vni and ishtar. Although its sad that you're nerfing one of my potential future in-game goals.
Laetitia Nzero Southern Cross Incorporated Shadow Cartel 307	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:49:18 - [862] - Quote :-( That is all.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1513	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:50:35 - [863] - Quote Ebony Texas wrote: KICK THE GOD DARN CSM OUT OF THEIR SEATS. THEY DO NOT STAND UP FOR THE COMMUNITY WHAT SO EVER!>.. they hell they go up there to visit ccp for?? NERF THE CSM! I CALL FOR RECALL I SUBMIT MY NO-CONFIDENCE VOTE! ABOLISH THE CSM At best the CSM are player advisers. They can tell the devs all day long what they think is best, end of the day the devs can still do whatever they want. It's also questionable whether the CSM was informed about this in the first place. But you're right. The CSM doesn't give a **** about the playerbase. Steve Ronuken being an exception, most of them are just there to gain access to NDA information to game the system with and lobby for their particular nullsec blob group. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 35	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:50:47 - [864] - Quote Random Lurker wrote: Pimpel Betrak wrote: And ...get a grade one crotch punch from ccp for having the audacity of using them to try to get some isk back. so....lets not tackle the issue of afk ratting in ishtars and VNI, noooooo cos the thousands doing that are totally not the issue... lets crotch punch the big guys...again.. VNIs and Ishtars dont make near anywhere the amount an afk carrier does, I am talking 500m ticks..thats just not intended gameplay... sorry nullbears. There is nothing wrong with CCP trying to make changes because noone is perfect. Carriers were not intended to be used this way and they were a pain to compete against in a non capital ship class vessel. Not sure if reducing fighter damage overall was needed. Could have reduced the damage vs NPC targets only. I dont know what you smoked today to come over with those "500mil /tick" numbers, buddy. A Nidhoggur with max skills and green fit will make 60 mil ticks... IF he stays off chat and just focuses completely on ratting. Most carrier ratters i've met cant get above 55 mil ticks. If you dont constantly control your fighters carefuly for even 20 seconds, you lose one, which is 11-15 mil isk...~50% of a Haven's value. I dont know if you are a troll or accidentally used an extra 0 on that figure, but if neither..then check your facts before you talk about smth you clearly have no experience with.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:51:14 - [865] - Quote Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: lilol' me wrote: sorry so a 25bill ship making 150m hr is bad? **** i would expect more isk tbh. You are doing it wrong dude I'm (was) doing 160m per tick with a perfect nyx (25b ship) and full attention of course Looks like time investment and learning how to play this game means nothing today... Or they just want to kill their game, make as much money as they can as fast as possible and say goodbye. They will close soon anyway with this mentality.
Wolfstorm STK Scientific The Initiative. 34	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:53:14 - [866] - Quote ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote: Removed some more offensive and off-topic posts. Please continue to be constructive, guys! And you don't get a cute gif this time since someone threatened to kill my puppies from the last one. LoL suggesting y'all get mailed bags of animal crap from the internet for your malfeasance isn't off topic or offensive (at least any more so than the proposed changes) - it's direct protest. Also it's too late - it's being eaten up everywhere else. =)
8RU74L Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:53:37 - [867] - Quote " As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties." Player driven economy doesnt need "outside" intervention,let us deal with this so called "problem" Norway has a problem with too much money,go nerf them instead!
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:55:10 - [868] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: lilol' me wrote: sorry so a 25bill ship making 150m hr is bad? **** i would expect more isk tbh. You are doing it wrong dude I'm (was) doing 160m per tick with a perfect nyx (25b ship) and full attention of course Looks like time investment and learning how to play this game means nothing today... Or they just want to kill their game, make as much money as they can as fast as possible and say goodbye. They will close soon anyway with this mentality. True but i will not play anymore till tuesday and if these changes are going live i ll unsub my 9 accounts (no threats here, it's reality) What a waste, you had such a beautiful game...
Cordylus1029 Team Pizza Good at this Game 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:55:59 - [869] - Quote Nex Gaius wrote: Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't ***** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep. Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault.
U- Hauler The Honeycomb Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:57:51 - [870] - Quote This is possibly the worst week that the game has ever had since I started playing.

Valleria Darkmoon No Salvation Top Belt for Fun 354	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:00:00 - [871] - Quote If you think carriers are running PvE too easily could you not have just added acceleration gates to the anoms that don't allow carriers in? Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 21	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:00:18 - [872] - Quote Vitak Zerath wrote: Im pretty sure that if the MERs continue like this, there will be timers on ratting anoms too. Im not complaining though. I agree that having such massive isk faucets is bad. Massive isk faucet? Um.. ratting in several billion isk ships that take years to master just to make 150m an hour is not a faucet. CCP your ***** ****** on this one.
Wolfstorm STK Scientific The Initiative. 35	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:01:28 - [873] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: Vitak Zerath wrote: Im pretty sure that if the MERs continue like this, there will be timers on ratting anoms too. Im not complaining though. I agree that having such massive isk faucets is bad. Massive isk faucet? Um.. ratting in several billion isk ships that take years to master just to make 150m an hour is not a faucet. CCP your ***** ****** on this one. It's because some smegheaded nitwit decided skill injectors were a good idea... x_X
Revival Lolloking Oscura Simmetria The Volition Cult 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:01:39 - [874] - Quote ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote: Removed some more offensive and off-topic posts. Please continue to be constructive, guys! And you don't get a cute gif this time since someone threatened to kill my puppies from the last one. Do we continue to be constructive? All right, but you can not make 4 days of patch making such an important change and do not expect such a reaction! Be constructive and cancel this change now. Open a consultation with the players and listen to their opinions and suggestions ... For protest I have canceled my subscriptions and I know that many players are moving in this way. Check it out as well. Although this is just a game for many players it is "their game" for years ... you have respect for them ... show this respect! -4 account
Ralph Shepard The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans 19	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:03:08 - [875] - Quote CCP, are you testing our patience with your constant "nerf everything" policy? Do you plan to eventually nerf everything with a frog boiling, salami slicing tactic?
Leo Burnhart SpaceX Galactic Badfellas Inc. 13	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:03:15 - [876] - Quote just 2 cents past skill queue: Minmatar Carrier V new skill queue: Gallente Cruiser V
Quod Cogitatio Kamelot Inc Infinity Space. 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:04:50 - [877] - Quote Guys relax and just spend summer time not for eve. And let CCP care their game... And for REAL you, CCP intervent in economy by OVERALL nerf carriers and s.carriers. But let's scummers and other **** live =) Nice. And now Phoenix can solo tank 3 Nyxs. Hooray! And sun update, yeah it nice at last!
Hypp Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:05:37 - [878] - Quote change feedback: PVE is crap carrier ratting makes it so people don't have to grind ISK for days so they can go PVP stop making it worse
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 24	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:06:30 - [879] - Quote NOTICE CCP: WITH THESE CURRENT CHANGES YOU JUST MADE BATTLESHIPS BETTER THEN CARRIERS. GOOD JOB, YOU SAW CARRIERS MAKE TONS OF ISK (AS THEY SHOULD) AND INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT INCURSIONS, OR OTHER SHIPS YOU JUST ARE LIKE YEP CARRIERS. WHO OVER THERE WORKS FOR GOONS, SERIOUSLY STOP LISTENING TO GOONS THEY ARE ********.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 24	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:06:46 - [880] - Quote Quod Cogitatio wrote: Guys relax and just spend summer time not for eve. And let CCP care their game... And for REAL you, CCP intervent in economy by OVERALL nerf carriers and s.carriers. But let's scummers and other **** live =) Nice. And now Phoenix can solo tank 3 Nyxs. Hooray! And sun update, yeah it nice at last! OOOO SUN UPDATE! I totally forgot about that one. I'm going back playing and melt my ships... (nope)

Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:07:56 - [881] - Quote Nerf carriers and supers instead of reducing bounties and removing skill injectors. Great logic.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 24	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:08:18 - [882] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. You seriously couldn't of went with more subtle changes like 10% versus 20% and 15 versus 30% you just decided to nerf a god damn carriers dps by 20% instantly? carriers are not the problem, incursions are the problem, factionwar is the problem 3 day old toons making billionns of isk.
Locoshark Downs Colonial Industries Badfellas Inc. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:13:42 - [883] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. With these changes and the moon mining changes in the winter eve will be dead shortly after. CCP ty for ruining this awesome game. first rorqual nerf now this. GG
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 30	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:14:17 - [884] - Quote Cordylus1029 wrote: Nex Gaius wrote: Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't ***** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep. Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault. BULL FREAKING CRAP! you get all the t3 and NEW T3 SALVAGE , GAS, AND HAVE HUGE FREAKING ABUNDANCE IN PI.. WHICH ALL CAN BE DONE AFK... GO HAVE SEVERAL SEATS! NOT TO MENTION THE BILLIONS THAT ARE EARNED PER HR!.. NOT TO MENTION HOW WH AVOIDS ALL SOV WARFARE AND THAT CRAP-A_FOZZIE_SOV WHACK HIS MOLE MESS HE CAME UP... you need to go stick it!
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 24	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:14:53 - [885] - Quote I "found" 17gb of HDD space! win
Guntaf DeLon 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:16:28 - [886] - Quote ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote: Removed some more offensive and off-topic posts. Please continue to be constructive, guys! And you don't get a cute gif this time since someone threatened to kill my puppies from the last one. Hi there. Why -20%? Why +15%? Yea, i know. Then something getting nerfed its easy to find some people to bu**hurt. But. You didnt think thats it a hammer-neft? ( i really dont wanna talk about ishtars, navyvexors, and rattlesnakes) How about make a aggro-sphere to fighters? You can press F to attack(F1 or something) or u place a sphere ( like a supercarrier emi-weapon) and fighters fight and autoaggro in this spere until at least 1 target is in the sphere. Ye, moar mouse-clicking, but still effective. Will not work on player ships. Maybe some same mechanic to drones? you can press F to send drones on target, or place sphere to fight ( you can move your sphere only inside your drone-link bubble.(range of drone-link). Something like that. Or how about to make something like - countercarrier weapons to all battleships of NPC? To make this hard and you need all time to manage capacitor and shield/armor to be effective. Something what would be 100% effective only on carrier and highers signatures and deal good damage. ( + upgrade NPC dreadnought's) ( dont forget, u still need to manage 1rst, 2nd, and 3rd squad with clicking on your mouse, everytime click on every weapon manually, your fighter still stopping like stupid cows and dying after every kill of npc. Fighers with real pilots( lore ), looking how they die and still dont moving,impossible). I think dear CCP in this problem need to make a team to solve this problem. Fighters, drones, AFK farm, this is all a part of a problem. Hatching one part of this problem with axe its not a good idea. Thanks for reading. Have a nice day. P.S. English not my own language, sorry for mistakes.
Lew Dicrous Dissidence Dawn The-Culture 201	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:16:38 - [887] - Quote Dear CCP, here's some honest feedback: When these changes go live you'll find it was much easier to feed your families, back when you had customers. It burns when I PVP
Crash 888 TRINTEX 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:16:59 - [888] - Quote idgi people played eve fine for a decade ratting in their dogshit sentry carriers but this nerf is outrageous and causing unsubs :thinking:
Curant Thanger Kontained Chaos Blades of Grass 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:18:29 - [889] - Quote This method of attempting to balance isk generation will only result in players shifting to other methods of isk generation. The isk faucet won't really change, your real problem is skill injectors, players who otherwise would have been several hundred days away from ratting in a capital, have a capital to rat in. Now they'll just use injectors to switch to two or three well constructed Ishtars and go afk while they do it as a bonus. All the while you've now also seriously damaged the utility of these capitals in PVP. A more direct isk nerf for carriers or high end null sites would have been way more effective, and preserved these capitals utility in PVP. Add a thematic modification to null sites so that they send out a panic message when a capital warps on grid calling radio silence IE, no escalations for capital ratting... Or heck, create some kind of tax that CONCORD puts on capital ratting... literally SO many other ways without damaging capital PVP The nerf hammer is the least elegant solution you could possibly have implemented.
Royaldo Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance 138	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:18:57 - [890] - Quote You waste time and money on games noone cares about. For every day that passes you, CCP, seem more and more out of touch with your cash cow. How many actual devs do you have these days? Keep making music videos for fanfest. Im sure they bring in a lot of money.

Azn Assassin Dissidence Dawn The-Culture 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:22:12 - [891] - Quote Boys lets keep the fight going, do not nerf carriers like this, they are meant like capital ships to be power houses, not something to laugh at which is what you will be making them. I don't know if these links will work but a long time ago carriers where subject to another design failure like this. I am revitalizing the old signature with this year, lets keep this fight going and save carriers. Save Carriers
Dxella Licentia Ex Vereor Phoebe Freeport Republic 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:22:28 - [892] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Instead of decreasing dmg. Why dont you nerf the support module. Remove that sickly ceptor scan res and make it so it have decreased bonus from sebos and remote sebos. That would fix carriers/supers for pve and pvp. Atleast i think this would be a better fix
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:24:39 - [893] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
Sym Biotic Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:25:27 - [894] - Quote Post AT with these changes -16 accounts.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:28:02 - [895] - Quote Predictions: Goes live.... notices carriers aren't ratting anymore.. no one is building carriers.. CCP: WE ****** UP SOMEONE FIRE JIM THAT IDIOT!! 3 years later, carriers are back to normal.
Tialano Utrigas Running with Dogs Stella Nova 102	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:29:38 - [896] - Quote CCPlz remove auto aggression with drones unless under ECM while your at it. This serves no other purpose than for people to play while AFK.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:30:44 - [897] - Quote When you make a lot of isk than you are not a customer anymore. You just ruin the game.
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:30:53 - [898] - Quote Cordylus1029 wrote: Nex Gaius wrote: Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't ***** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep. Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault. says the guy who prob rage rolls to get a not descaning ship on grid to point then a whole fleet comes out to kill. and u guys got it easy i use to live in a c4 and if u have hole control u have no need for local and ur prob scanner is ur local if a new anom pops u scan it and roll it off so u have no room to talk friend.
Crash 888 TRINTEX 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:31:56 - [899] - Quote OK how about, instead of nerfing damage; Just get rid of JUMP FATIGUE so these feckin bears can be culled. Basic rule of ecology; populations get out of control when the predators are removed, and it looks like the whiny bears have multiplied beyond sustainable levels.
Ms Michigan Aviation Professionals for EVE Virtus Crusade Protectorate 111	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:32:31 - [900] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: A year ago, we got the long awaited Capital ship changes which finally revitalized the class as a whole. It was obvious that Capital ships were going to be very powerful, both in PVP and PVE. You gave us powerful end game ships to work towards - something worth commitment to Eve. Roughly six months later you did the same thing with the Rorqual. Now, a year after these changes, when most players have finally begun to benefit from them, you reduce the ships back to roughly where they were before. Maybe that's a good thing in the long run, maybe it's not. Maybe it pisses off so many people who feel that you pulled another bait and switch with training. Maybe it makes Battleships great again. But this is a major change that affects way more than running anomalies. ..... Or maybe they will do something else and make Eve more interesting. If you pursue this, however, it has to be across the board. Everything has to be finite or people will just shift to continuous PVE in another part of space. Yes, that means the Damsel can only be rescued from Dodixie so many times a day... Across the board, ISK-generating PVE should be more like wormhole space or Incursions. PVE content eventually depletes. Out of things to do locally? Leave home and go kill some dudes or crab it up some place new. QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

Curant Thanger Kontained Chaos Blades of Grass 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:33:32 - [901] - Quote Solution to current problems... 0% escalation chance in anoms with capitals on grid slight nerf to high end bounties (if you're really only worried about carrier bounty income, gate havens and/or fHubs) Modify injectors so that SP gain is scaled based on skill multiplier rather than total SP on the character, this way characters aren't injecting cheaply into traditionally high SP skills, while still preserving the benefit of injectors to new characters.
Kavasta Associated Stellar Company The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:34:25 - [902] - Quote New player , carrier skill 15d old , nerfed ! All this time losed for nothing , ccp refund me plz , tx
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 26	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:44:06 - [903] - Quote Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote: Well, We have a Response from CCP Quant on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/diovza9/ CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. This communication tone is way below than I have ever expected...I'm not surprised after the puppies though.
Deathzone Maken Angry Dragons The-Culture 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:44:45 - [904] - Quote Oh look, another episode of How to Kill Your Game, by CCP.
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:46:47 - [905] - Quote Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote: Well, We have a Response from CCP Quant on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/diovza9/ CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. says the guys who have 100 man rorq fleets out mining everything in sight and being the problem
Steroidastroid Ormand 23	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:47:05 - [906] - Quote my 5 cents: unsubbed
Pimpel Betrak The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:47:05 - [907] - Quote so hang on a min there sporty! so the top 1%.. lets consider that... you have folks who invest years in the game. a **** ton of cash and time. get to the big stuff you guys don't like it and ...take away the benefit ? so tell me oh sage of eve? what is the actual point in progressing to hulls that, YOU GUYS DESIGNED ? we the players are entitled to let you know we are unhappy. WE PAY YOU FOR IT
Cordylus1029 Team Pizza Good at this Game 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:47:46 - [908] - Quote Ebony Texas wrote: Cordylus1029 wrote: Nex Gaius wrote: Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't *** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep. Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault. BULL FREAKING CRAP! you get all the t3 and NEW T3 SALVAGE , GAS, AND HAVE HUGE FREAKING ABUNDANCE IN PI.. WHICH ALL CAN BE DONE AFK... GO HAVE SEVERAL SEATS! NOT TO MENTION THE BILLIONS THAT ARE EARNED PER HR!.. NOT TO MENTION HOW WH AVOIDS ALL SOV WARFARE AND THAT CRAP-A_FOZZIE_SOV WHACK HIS MOLE MESS HE CAME UP... you need to go stick it! You realize most people who run sites don't even salvage now because it's not worth the time right? lmfao, nanoribbons which are chance based are cheap af. PI....really....PI.....uhhhhh, I honestly don't give a damn about PI. If you want to mention that, you guys have moon mining your point is invalid. WH's have literally lost all of our capital level combat due to BS being balanced for null, so ** off. PVP entities now have to live in low class WH's and searching for content is even more difficult. I have zero pity for your no risk ratting in null I'm sorry. I can jump into a nullsec system and start running sites where there's someone ratting and shut down the entire system. I got combat probed down in an anom, 5 pilots in system, all of them were ratting and all of them docked up for hours while I afk VNI'd. You null people are risk averse and crawl away every time a neut comes into local. I literally couldn't care about your capital ratting issues. We have a lot more risk in a WH, including not having asset security when we lose citadels, if we have it so good in J space why don't you live here instead of bitching about null problems? Oh that's right because null is safe carebear space. Get nerfed.
Tara Read Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 982	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:47:59 - [909] - Quote Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote: Well, We have a Response from CCP Quant on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/diovza9/ CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Gotta love how they walked back the 260 mil tick comment when I tweeted them and laughed. No one makes 260 mil ticks. These devs have no idea what game they are even playing anymore. Cause it's the top 1% screaming their lungs out you are nerfing huge ships that players aspire to train into. Because it's the 1% that use Carriers in a PvP role. Because it is the 1% that make you mad that we ignore the Plex sales, The Plex advertising, the Plex Spam. Because ALL we are as customers are nothing but a cash cow to you CCP. You've proved it enough with how you respond to us like this in blatant ignorance and contempt. FYI I use my 7 accounts to PVP. Next time you want to generalize players and snob us be warned we're not taking it anymore and neither are our wallets. You devs don't even LISTEN to us anymore! You make such drastic changes and cram them down our throats in FOUR days and say gg? Jeez wonderful experience here in New Eden. CCP you better do a 180 and fast before you lose the last players that even care remotely about this game.
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:48:56 - [910] - Quote CCP Quant wrote " When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account " He definitely does not know what he is writting about. Who told them this? Is this a CSM idea about ratting in a carrier/super? That just scares and embarrasses me that they got no idea about the game they make.

singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:49:13 - [911] - Quote Crash 888 wrote: OK how about, instead of nerfing damage; Just get rid of JUMP FATIGUE so these feckin bears can be dropped on and culled. Basic rule of ecology; populations get out of control when the predators are removed, and it looks like the whiny bears have multiplied beyond sustainable levels. not a bad idea to be honest
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 450	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:49:27 - [912] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Lightbringer wrote: Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell? Yesterday people complained the Battleship nerf would make Carriers the default king of the meta. Now CCP is dealing with Carriers and people want to cry? My assumption is they are pushing towards T1 battleships When I lived in Oasa and ratted anomalies, I used either a Rokh or a Marauder. Carriers were quick, but too slow to get out of dodge if something went wacky. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space. Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 25	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:54:02 - [913] - Quote Curant Thanger wrote: Solution to current problems... 0% escalation chance in anoms with capitals on grid slight nerf to high end bounties (if you're really only worried about carrier bounty income, gate havens and/or fHubs) Modify injectors so that SP gain is scaled based on skill multiplier rather than total SP on the character, this way characters aren't injecting cheaply into traditionally high SP skills, while still preserving the benefit of injectors to new characters. put a negative 20% isk bounty payout hull bonus on capitals Nothing needs to change on capitals, stop giving them bullshit to work with. A capital is a capital because its ***** epic expensive and take a long time to get into, ** the Skill injector excuse I am tired of hearing it. CCP KEEP UR HAND OUT OF THE COOKIE JAR!!
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 31	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:54:36 - [914] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: When you make a lot of isk than you are not a customer anymore. You just ruin the game. When CCP is so desperate for cash they pull these microtransactions begging for money then you have these problems.. its called pay to win.. so its their own fault.. seems they don't know how to really assess whats going on in game. Plex is their creation and its became its own monster which they have to deal with....which they wont they just made it worse cause they need money. this seriously points to a cash grab attempt.. im not believing CCP at all about this crap.. they just came up with the most pathetic excuse forgetting how they nerf'd the NPC bounties back in Null sec not to long ago.. they just wanted to nerf something to top off that nerf patch hitting next week.
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 11	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:54:53 - [915] - Quote Deathzone Maken wrote: Oh look, another episode of How to Kill Your Game, by CCP. Here's a hint. Maybe instead of looking at some arbitrary nerf that doesn't make much sense at all, consider looking at some more relevant things, like the absurd timezone tanking of citadels, or maybe the complete lack of risk of living in one outside of WHs, or maybe fixing Ghost Training. You know, fix stuff thats actually broken. ok i might have read u wrong but are u saying there is risk to livin i WH tell me who will kill the keep stars in there when u cant even get enough people in with out doing a 1 month seed mission. if i read this wrong carryon friend
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 33	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:56:23 - [916] - Quote Cordylus1029 wrote: Ebony Texas wrote: Cordylus1029 wrote: Nex Gaius wrote: Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't *** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep. Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault. BULL FREAKING CRAP! you get all the t3 and NEW T3 SALVAGE , GAS, AND HAVE HUGE FREAKING ABUNDANCE IN PI.. WHICH ALL CAN BE DONE AFK... GO HAVE SEVERAL SEATS! NOT TO MENTION THE BILLIONS THAT ARE EARNED PER HR!.. NOT TO MENTION HOW WH AVOIDS ALL SOV WARFARE AND THAT CRAP-A_FOZZIE_SOV WHACK HIS MOLE MESS HE CAME UP... you need to go stick it! You realize most people who run sites don't even salvage now because it's not worth the time right? lmfao, nanoribbons which are chance based are cheap af. PI....really....PI.....uhhhhh, I honestly don't give a damn about PI. If you want to mention that, you guys have moon mining your point is invalid. WH's have literally lost all of our capital level combat due to BS being balanced for null, so ** off. PVP entities now have to live in low class WH's and searching for content is even more difficult. I have zero pity for your no risk ratting in null I'm sorry. I can jump into a nullsec system and start running sites where there's someone ratting and shut down the entire system. I got combat probed down in an anom, 5 pilots in system, all of them were ratting and all of them docked up for hours while I afk VNI'd. You null people are risk averse and crawl away every time a neut comes into local. I literally couldn't care about your capital ratting issues. We have a lot more risk in a WH, including not having asset security when we lose citadels, if we have it so good in J space why don't you live here instead of bitching about null problems? Oh that's right because null is safe carebear space. Get nerfed. you really need to sit down and go back to drinking on mama's ..... afterburner buddy..
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:56:30 - [917] - Quote Pimpel Betrak wrote: so hang on a min there sporty! so the top 1%.. lets consider that... you have folks who invest years in the game. a **** ton of cash and time. get to the big stuff you guys don't like it and ...take away the benefit ? so tell me oh sage of eve? what is the actual point in progressing to hulls that, YOU GUYS DESIGNED ? we the players are entitled to let you know we are unhappy. WE PAY YOU FOR IT too true
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 27	Posted - 2017.06.09 21:59:06 - [918] - Quote Ebony Texas wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: When you make a lot of isk than you are not a customer anymore. You just ruin the game. When CCP is so desperate for cash they pull these microtransactions begging for money then you have these problems.. its called pay to win.. so its their own fault.. seems they don't know how to really assess whats going on in game. Plex is their creation and its became its own monster which they have to deal with....which they wont they just made it worse cause they need money. this seriously points to a cash grab attempt.. im not believing CCP at all about this crap.. they just came up with the most pathetic excuse forgetting how they nerf'd the NPC bounties back in Null sec not to long ago.. they just wanted to nerf something to top off that nerf patch hitting next week. Indeed. I wonder what will be the next thing to nerf?! (I have an awesome idea who to start with: CCP Quant)
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16084	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:01:41 - [919] - Quote Bron Ander Haltern wrote: CCP Quant wrote " When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account " He definitely does not know what he is writting about. Who told them this? Is this a CSM idea about ratting in a carrier/super? That just scares and embarrasses me that they got no idea about the game they make. No one told him, he's the Data guy at CCP, he has the info at his finger tips. Remember, all regions aren't the same rat wise, and some rats (like for instance rogue drones) have higher base bounties. Right now CCP quant is getting downvoted into oblivion after he has explained what happening to the EVE economy. It shows that people care more about their imaginary space wallets than they do the health of the EVE economy.
Aldeskwatso Grain Fields Inc. The Big Dirty 51	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:02:12 - [920] - Quote Any activity that generates excessive amounts of ISK compared to its exposure to risk should be attempted to be rebalanced. So if carriers/supercarriers can be used to make it way to easy to the point it is throwing off a healthy balance between risk vs reward etc. they should be rebalanced somehow to counter this kind of abuse. I understand why some get salty if their cashcows get hurt by this but there is a bigger picture here. It's challenge. In my oppinion its still way to easy to make things easy for yourself to the point ISK is never an obstacle. But it also takes away a lot of challenge. And for me nothing kills a game more then lack of challenge. As a result I avoid activities that abuse an inbalance to generate my ISK and this forces me to look at other means to support myself. And that has changed my outlook on the game a lot in the best way possible. If I didn't do this I would've quit the game because of it. So I for one am happy CCP does something about these things. And I'm sure those that aren't happy about it now will adapt and gravitate towards the next best thing. As for PvP use. It will likely change but same there as well. If the changes make them obsolete all together I'm sure it will get fixed. And should be fixed. But give people time to come up with creative adaptations. The biggest obstacle you'll encounter doing anything is yourself.

Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 33	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:03:49 - [921] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Ebony Texas wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: When you make a lot of isk than you are not a customer anymore. You just ruin the game. When CCP is so desperate for cash they pull these microtransactions begging for money then you have these problems.. its called pay to win.. so its their own fault.. seems they don't know how to really assess whats going on in game. Plex is their creation and its became its own monster which they have to deal with....which they wont they just made it worse cause they need money. this seriously points to a cash grab attempt.. im not believing CCP at all about this crap.. they just came up with the most pathetic excuse forgetting how they nerf'd the NPC bounties back in Null sec not to long ago.. they just wanted to nerf something to top off that nerf patch hitting next week. Indeed. I wonder what will be the next thing to nerf?! (I have an awesome idea who to start with: CCP Quant) they need to nerf a few of those bickering as dev's jobs who refuse to address this community here on this games forums.. instead of running off to that backwood as reddit channels.. freaking cowards! and YES I SAID IT CAUSE ITS TRUE
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:04:41 - [922] - Quote I think Titan ratting should be nerfed too.. I hear they print too much isk ! Btw .. CCPlease ... PLAY THE GAME before you make comments =/
WhoIsThisIs KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:04:42 - [923] - Quote My fighters are killed enough as it is. Thank you ccp, all the YEARS i spent training these skills was so they could be useless later.
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:04:57 - [924] - Quote I want to point one thing out that i havent seen but people have blamed. "plex this" right well someone has to pay for those said plex with real money. So it doesnt matter if i plex a few of my accounts someone it paying for it so stop with that. there not losing out on money from plex if there in the market someone paid for them.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 212	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:08:27 - [925] - Quote Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote: Well, We have a Response from CCP Quant on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/diovza9/ CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Uh I am definitely not part of the 1%. My net worth is less than 10b. Try again quant.
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:08:36 - [926] - Quote Aldeskwatso wrote: Any activity that generates excessive amounts of ISK compared to its exposure to risk should be attempted to be rebalanced. So if carriers/supercarriers can be used to make it way to easy to the point it is throwing off a healthy balance between risk vs reward etc. they should be rebalanced somehow to counter this kind of abuse. I understand why some get salty if their cashcows get hurt by this but there is a bigger picture here. It's challenge. In my oppinion its still way to easy to make things easy for yourself to the point ISK is never an obstacle. But it also takes away a lot of challenge. And for me nothing kills a game more then lack of challenge. As a result I avoid activities that abuse an inbalance to generate my ISK and this forces me to look at other means to support myself. And that has changed my outlook on the game a lot in the best way possible. If I didn't do this I would've quit the game because of it. So I for one am happy CCP does something about these things. And I'm sure those that aren't happy about it now will adapt and gravitate towards the next best thing. As for PvP use. It will likely change but same there as well. If the changes make them obsolete all together I'm sure it will get fixed. And should be fixed. But give people time to come up with creative adaptations. Abuse? I guess legitimately using a carrier/super to rat in is abuse but running incursions for 23 hours a day in a blinged ship and pod in the safety of high sec with ZERO risk is not abuse...
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:08:49 - [927] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Bron Ander Haltern wrote: CCP Quant wrote " When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account " He definitely does not know what he is writting about. Who told them this? Is this a CSM idea about ratting in a carrier/super? That just scares and embarrasses me that they got no idea about the game they make. No one told him, he's the Data guy at CCP, he has the info at his finger tips. Remember, all regions aren't the same rat wise, and some rats (like for instance rogue drones) have higher base bounties. Right now CCP quant is getting downvoted into oblivion after he has explained what happening to the EVE economy. It shows that people care more about their imaginary space wallets than they do the health of the EVE economy. He is getting downvoted because of his "idontgiveafukaboutevecommunity" style not because of his explanation. They generated their own "problem" and i think this is not the right way to deal with it. And this "data guy" forgets one really important thing: economy doesn't live without customers.
Cyrek Ohaya Blazing Sun Group 22	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:09:24 - [928] - Quote I am happy to see CCP taking action on the subject.
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:13:31 - [929] - Quote Cyrek Ohaya wrote: I am happy to see CCP taking action on the subject. Yeah better they nerf carriers instead of taking action against worthwhile things like SP farms, ghost training, and skill injectors letting noobs fly carriers and supers.
Securitas Protector Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde 72	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:13:54 - [930] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6968992#post6968992]. I'm making a long post that'll probably be wasted here, but **** it, here goes. What you're doing here makes no sense. I don't mean overall, I mean specifically with the citadel/PVP/PVE changes that you are making. The T3 cruiser change, I think, was handled very well and I look forward to it. However, your changes for the nullsec game will be disastrous, and here's why. Risk and reward. This is the entire idea behind nullsec; the idea that you can go and stake a claim, put money and assets on the line, and receive a reward for taking these risks. This idea was reflected in your changes to the Rorqual; you took a very expensive ship and made it worth using. Despite the fact that it prints ISK and allows the industrialization of nullsec, it also is vulnerable for 5 minutes at a time. Not only that, it provides adequate time via the PANIC to allow a fight to occur. Excellent game design. High risk, high reward, and an objective that holds value for both the attacker and defender. It really doesn't get better than that. The problem, is that since citadels and with the impending phase-out of POS, Rorquals have become one of the few remaining reliable fight generators. Why? Because mining is only half of the nullsec PVE experience, and running anomalies is incredibly safe. CCP, you are right that there is a problem with anomalies; they churn out great ISK for no risk with a carrier or super. The issue here is that instead of increasing the RISK, you are decreasing the reward. To illustrate: Now: Low risk, high reward After patch: Low risk, lower reward HOW IT SHOULD BE: High risk, high reward Instead of nerfing fighters, affecting the entire meta, and ironically punishing the people who are probably making ISK on their main (rorquals can be multiboxed almost infinitely, meaning that lowering ISK per hour is less of a hit), you should be making it easier to kill capitals/supers running anomalies. Right now it is risk-free and it will continue to be so after the current changes. There are myriad ways you could do this; more warp disruption rats, NSA disallowing warp, etc. You could even make changes so that Dreadnoughts are the premiere capital PVE ship. Make them the Rorqual of anomalies; they are almost perfect for it. They are stuck for 5 minutes at a time, incentivizing content. They tank well. They could have a PANIC-type module added to incentivize fighting. Think about what his happening; Citadels are completely awful to deal with as an attacker, so people don't attack them unless absolutely necessary. POS are decreasingly relevant even without their phaseout as Rorquals/Carriers make far more money. Sovwar is laughable in terms of encouraging real fleet-on-fleet warfare Roaming is pointless since tethering makes it impossible to fight over undock control There are few incentives to hunt in hostile space; anyone in anomalies is pre-aligned and unless they really make a mistake, are entirely safe You have effectively incentivized a system where fighting is discouraged, risk is discouraged, and there is nothing to do except make money in preparation for future conflict. Instead of punishing people for adapting to the environment you've created, why not change the environment? Force people to make money with risk, but also give them the opportunity to form up and save their ratting ships. Simply hoping that people will fight eachother in the absence of any compelling reason to do so is not enough, and more than that, it's not in EVE's culture. Sure, people can pre-arrange fights now, but these are devoid of meaning since by definition neither side will risk anything it actually cares about. Give an opportunity for combat to happen in space over the new R64s (Rorquals, carriers, etc). Right now Rorquals, while great, offer the only high-risk/high-reward personal PVE experience. On a side note; I agree Pirate BS frequency needs to be reduced, but please show T1 BS some love also. They should have a central role in the null PVP meta.

Halo Phase Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 17	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:15:05 - [931] - Quote Oh the bleating will be magnificent. This will be the salt harvest of the year.
Tim Nering Mouth Trumpet Cavalry. Mouth Trumpet Cavalry 179	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:15:11 - [932] - Quote singthegrief wrote: Cordylus1029 wrote: Nex Gaius wrote: Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't ***** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep. Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault. says the guy who prob rage rolls to get a not descaning ship on grid to point then a whole fleet comes out to kill. and u guys got it easy i use to live in a c4 and if u have hole control u have no need for local and ur prob scanner is ur local if a new anom pops u scan it and roll it off so u have no room to talk friend. LMAO literally fking clueless Stop Caring Start Fragging! Join R3D Fire Today!
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 34	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:16:31 - [933] - Quote CCP just ruined the chimera .. the precious block looking thing that never needed a re-image.. thanks ccp.. you just caused another force rebalance on caps.. see this work at hand folks.. they'll hype you up at a fan freaking fest about their cap balance.. just to say oops we need to rebalance a rebalance from before because they just cant get it right on the first go around.. CCP SEAGULL ... PLS HIRE REAL DEV's
Wilben Silverkin DNS Requiem Cohortes Triarii 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:16:37 - [934] - Quote Are you serious? Does ccp even realize what the hell they are doing?
Blaze Tiberius Blackwater Associates Brute Force Solutions 21	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:18:31 - [935] - Quote These changes and nerfs to Carriers and Supers hurt your oldest and most loyal player base, CCP. The players who spent YEARS training into these ships. When a Rattlesnake can out DPS a T2 fit Carrier, you messed up. This is another money grab, plain and simple. You want to cut off income streams so that players are forced to buy more Plex. Why don't you focus on making changes that will generate meaningful content for your players instead?
6 Vinatieri Lazerhawks L A Z E R H A W K S 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:22:01 - [936] - Quote hi, can you not? I am literally training to solo drop null ratting carriers. & you've nerf supers twice since i started. You are continuously making eve single player near impossible. Now you are punishing us because what? A bunch of PVE bads get all no life with killing bots? Heres some ideas, how about instead of nerfing the play style of various PVP carriers. You nerf the isk faucet itself. Add a fatigue mechanic to bounty payout. Or how about you give rats specific resistances to fighter damage. Or hell if its f1 fleet monkeys you are worried about, add a fighter fatigue mechanic. The longer the period of time you use them, the less effective they are. Or even the more fighters there are in a fleet the less effective they are. Fighters are already easy to kill, stop making them useless please. A super is worth like $300-400 USD. IT SHOULD BE STRONG. I thought of all this before i had my morning coffee. Problem solving isn't hard, scripting is. K162
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:23:27 - [937] - Quote Overwhelmingly negative response to this move, I think this last second "ninja nerf" really needs to be pulled back temporarily so CCP can assess whether this is something they should communicate with the players with a bit more--many of us have spent thousands on this game over the years and this feels like a punch in the teeth to our endgame ships many have worked hard to invest in and acquire.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 212	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:23:32 - [938] - Quote Wilben Silverkin wrote: Are you serious? Does ccp even realize what the hell they are doing? Of course they are serious!
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 210	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:26:21 - [939] - Quote Welp, didn't need to actually use this character anyway. I'm sure the 46 million SP I have invested into flying supers will be very useful now that they're trash... Since my other characters are all trained to fly pirate battleships and T3 cruisers, it appears about 70% of my training and net worth just got nerfed down the drain in one go. I'll be back if Eve becomes playable again some day.
Ralen Zateki Dissidence Dawn The-Culture 193	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:27:25 - [940] - Quote Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote: This whole thing is had to call bullshit. Yeah, capital ships are gives you easy ISK, but why you had to wait with that? PL, NC. and goon now ratted enough? They mining and ratting with these ships 23/7. This do bad for the market, not those, who use it ratting 1-2 hours. Or did you ever tried to farm your monthly plex? And after that you should buy some ships etc to actually really play the game not just farm yourself over the days. I'm thinking this is the most subtle but important flaw in CCP thinking. And I'm one that usually defends CCP to a degree against the grrrr change is bad crowd. It's a reward to players who put the time and risk into fielding a cap or super to make ISK. I think most peeps can only stand to rat for about 2 hours or so anyway b/c ratting is so f-ing terrible and uncreative anyway. There's a minority of risk averse peeps in every mid to large alliance that sit and rat ALL ***** DAY. I suspect that's the real problem. Trust me CCP. No body logs into this game with the primary purpose of engaging in your PVE options anyway. So let's just screw everyone and kneecap the already questionable PVP value of these ships and do nothing at all about some of the root causes? O, and not to mention - you've done pretty good the last few years announcing changes ahead of time and allowing for a decent back and forth. But on this one you pop out an announcement of this size 4-5 days before the changes are tee'd up to hit? Nice PR. You get what you deserve for this one, what exactly did you expect was going to happen? ISK supply a problem? Fine. I get it. Those numbers don't lie. But damn, maybe you should just hang a sign around your neck that says "plz kick me in the balls as hard as you can." Will probably be less painful than the subs your gonna lose on this one. I know I'll likely unsub at least one and likely 2 characters until they are actually worth the time I put into them. And no, not just cuz PVE nerf... cuz carrier's are one of our mainline combat doctrines and we prolly won't be able to use 'em much. I mean ... did it even freaking dawn on you that people actually like to use carriers and supers. Hell...most duders wouldn't mind losing one now and then if we could actually use 'em more often.... R PS - So maybe you can also understand some of the rage - aside from the stupid approach - I'm sure there are people like me who just purchased a 2nd carrier or just purchased a super and BAM, out of the BLUE you drop this ** on 'em.

Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:28:18 - [941] - Quote 6 Vinatieri wrote: I thought of all this before i had my morning coffee. Problem solving isn't hard, scripting is. "Earning the most money with the least ammount of energy invested" does not start at scripting my friend.
Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:31:02 - [942] - Quote So you telling me I should start 10 account and train them to AFK VNIs while i play world of tanks and make 10 times as much isk as i do now ratting with a super? This is what you want us to do dont you? You have to warp the VNIs once every 45 minutes. Guess what i bet you never did PVE with a Super before. You have to click 1 at least every second. And thats the relaxed ratting peace. And what are supers and carriers gonna be used after this? Hauling ships maybe? They will be useless for PVE and useless for PVP as well. GJ removing 2 shipclass from the actively used ships list. You train 20-25 milion SP just to use the Super on a level it makes dank ticks. You spend 30-35 bilion isk on the ship+fit+fighters ect. So you want to turn this to a level where a Rattlesnake will do just as fine as a Carrier Or i can just go run a few accoutns afk ratting and have a combined of less SP and money invested in them making actually more isk. But who needs time for pvp anyway this game isabout buying PLEX You want to turn ppl into ratting machines with more **** ships and make them spend more time actively doing absolutely nothing but getting money to play. Yes i do 100m ticks with my Super and guess what i ***** invested a lot into it so i can do that. Go Nerf it and you will end up seeing a lot of new aplha toons very soon. Best businnes plan ever.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4099	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:32:06 - [943] - Quote Ralen Zateki wrote: Trust me CCP. No body logs into this game with the primary purpose of engaging in your **** PVE options anyway. really, the comments in this thread disagree with that statement... Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Mikasa Leonhardt Sudden-Impact Solyaris Chtonium 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:32:07 - [944] - Quote Proof CCP doesn't have an idea what the F they are doing. Did the company brain cell get misplaced? https://vgy.me/n4UIty.png maybe you should start playing your own game?
Captain jdd SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:35:08 - [945] - Quote Really good change CCP. Ty.
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 34	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:35:20 - [946] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: Aldeskwatso wrote: Any activity that generates excessive amounts of ISK compared to its exposure to risk should be attempted to be rebalanced. So if carriers/supercarriers can be used to make it way to easy to the point it is throwing off a healthy balance between risk vs reward etc. they should be rebalanced somehow to counter this kind of abuse. I understand why some get salty if their cashcows get hurt by this but there is a bigger picture here. It's challenge. In my oppinion its still way to easy to make things easy for yourself to the point ISK is never an obstacle. But it also takes away a lot of challenge. And for me nothing kills a game more then lack of challenge. As a result I avoid activities that abuse an inbalance to generate my ISK and this forces me to look at other means to support myself. And that has changed my outlook on the game a lot in the best way possible. If I didn't do this I would've quit the game because of it. So I for one am happy CCP does something about these things. And I'm sure those that aren't happy about it now will adapt and gravitate towards the next best thing. As for PvP use. It will likely change but same there as well. If the changes make them obsolete all together I'm sure it will get fixed. And should be fixed. But give people time to come up with creative adaptations. Abuse? I guess legitimately using a carrier/super to rat in is abuse but running incursions for 23 hours a day in a blinged ship and pod in the safety of high sec with ZERO risk is not abuse... hell you can make even more isk in high-sec incursions than in null sec incursions!... yet they don't see it that way..i mean ffs their denial makes them complete total jackasses!
Crash 888 TRINTEX 5	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:35:43 - [947] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: He is getting downvoted because of his "idontgiveafukaboutevecommunity" style not because of his explanation. They generated their own "problem" and i think this is not the right way to deal with it. And this "data guy" forgets one really important thing: economy doesn't live without customers. well that's just Icelandic economic tradition don't worry, they get it right in the end
Tobias Frank 53	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:35:47 - [948] - Quote 260M ticks, lmao.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:37:05 - [949] - Quote Mikasa Leonhardt wrote: Proof CCP doesn't have an idea what the F they are doing. Did the company brain cell get misplaced? https://vgy.me/n4UIty.png maybe you should start playing your own game? We have been talking about that a couple pages before. Roll back and enjoy the negligence of CCP.
Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:40:24 - [950] - Quote Securitas Protector wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6968992#post6968992]. I'm making a long post that'll probably be wasted here, but ** it, here goes. What you're doing here makes no sense. I don't mean overall, I mean specifically with the citadel/PVP/PVE changes that you are making. The T3 cruiser change, I think, was handled very well and I look forward to it. However, your changes for the nullsec game will be disastrous, and here's why. Risk and reward. This is the entire idea behind nullsec; the idea that you can go and stake a claim, put money and assets on the line, and receive a reward for taking these risks. This idea was reflected in your changes to the Rorqual; you took a very expensive ship and made it worth using. Despite the fact that it prints ISK and allows the industrialization of nullsec, it also is vulnerable for 5 minutes at a time, giving an aggressive, knowledgeable attacker the opportunity to catch it. Not only that, it provides adequate time via the PANIC to allow a fight to occur. Excellent game design. High risk, high reward, and an objective that holds value for both the attacker and defender. It really doesn't get better than that. The problem, is that since citadels and with the impending phase-out of POS, Rorquals have become one of the few remaining reliable fight generators. Why? Because mining is only half of the nullsec PVE experience, and running anomalies is incredibly safe. CCP, you are right that there is a problem with anomalies; they churn out great ISK for no risk with a carrier or super. They can sit perma-aligned with no timer and have all the time in the world to simply leave. No matter how excellent a tackler is, their skill is completely irrelevant to catching someone in a carrier or super rating. The issue here is that instead of increasing the RISK, you are decreasing the reward. To illustrate: Now: Low risk, high reward After patch: Low risk, lower reward HOW IT SHOULD BE: High risk, high reward Instead of nerfing fighters, affecting the entire meta, and ironically punishing the people who are probably making ISK on their main (rorquals can be multiboxed almost infinitely, meaning that lowering ISK per hour is less of a hit), you should be making it easier to kill capitals/supers running anomalies. Right now it is risk-free and it will continue to be so after the current changes. There are myriad ways you could do this; more warp disruption rats(NPC HICs?), NSA disallowing warp, etc. You could even make changes so that Dreadnoughts are the premiere capital PVE ship. Make them the Rorqual of anomalies; they are almost perfect for it. They are stuck for 5 minutes at a time, incentivizing content. They tank well. They could have a PANIC-type module added to incentivize fighting. Not only does this acheive your goal and decrease the raw amount of ISK being put out, it actively creates interesting conflicts and a cost/benefit to using them. Now, doesn't that sound better than just nerfing something by X%? Think about what is happening, it's all connected: Citadels are completely awful to deal with as an attacker, so people don't attack them unless absolutely necessary. POS are decreasingly relevant even without their phaseout as Rorquals/Carriers make far more money. Sovwar is laughable in terms of encouraging real fleet-on-fleet warfare Roaming is pointless since tethering makes it impossible to fight over undock control, and everything that's not a Rorqual can easily escape long before you get there unless they up There are few incentives to hunt in hostile space; anyone in anomalies is pre-aligned and unless they really make a mistake, are entirely safe You have effectively created a system where fighting is discouraged(nothing of value to fight over), attacking is discouraged, risk is discouraged, and there is nothing to do except make money in preparation for future conflict. Instead of punishing people for adapting to the environment you've created, why not change the environment? Force people to make money with risk, but also give them the opportunity to form up and save their ratting ships. Simply hoping that people will fight eachother in the absence of any compelling reason to do so is not enough, and more than that, it's not in EVE's culture. Sure, people can pre-arrange fights now, but these are devoid of meaning since by definition neither side will risk anything it actually cares about. Give an opportunity for combat to happen in space over the new R64s (Rorquals, carriers, etc). Right now Rorquals, while great, offer the only high-risk/high-reward personal PVE experience. On a side note; I agree Pirate BS frequency needs to be reduced, but please show T1 BS some love also. They should have a central role in the null PVP meta. An aside: I have been an active small-to-medium fleet FC for the better part of a decade. I am by no means amazing, but I have a pretty good understanding of how the meta and game design affects daily and short-term content. EVE has never been as "quiet" on a day-to-day basis as it is now; when I consider taking a fleet out, I stop myself. Why bother? I can't force anyone to fight me; they can just sit in a citadel or warp their aligned carrier off when my tackler enters system. Literally all I do now is hunt rorquals because when I tackle that rorqual, I KNOW something will happen. I may get completely defeated, I may get a rorqual kill, or I might get a fight. Literally all of those options are good, not only for me as an FC but for the health of the game as a whole. Okay, I'm calling it, that's all I'm gonna write. Please listen. I love this game. Don't ** it up.

al'Lan Athonille Blackwater Associates Brute Force Solutions 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:41:19 - [951] - Quote CCPlz, ...Really? The complaint seems to be that those who risk the most isk to make it, are making the most isk. Isn't that how this game is supposed to go? Isk = risk and all? I'd also like to point out the backwards-thinking it takes to nerf a PvP ship and it's PvP abilities for it's performance in PvE. The problem seems to be a simple one - ratting is an isk faucet. The solution should be fairly simple - bounties are that faucet, control the bounties. Why not - Nerf bounties by 5% and encourage people to actually use an ESS? The ESS is a target, causes content, and ships get blown up removing isk from the game. Also, I'd like to point out, this isn't the 1% being affected as you claim,, it's your standard null line players. Your out-of-touch allegations and cherry-picking of stats to support your nerf is alarming as a long-time player. CCP, I'm certain I speak for a number of us, your customers, when I say: Enough with the cash-grabs1
Ian Hestia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:41:56 - [952] - Quote Now it takes almost two minutes for Light fighters to kill a rat frigate. lol, 58 damage to a rat frigate every cycle. And the heavy fighter did less then CCP has announced. 25%? no, it's more than 25%. Thank you CCP. My rattlesnake can kill a site faster than my Hel now. What a "Good change" for a fuking 30B or more captial ship. What a **** change.
Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 6	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:42:49 - [953] - Quote 260m tick id like that. Bet they only rat with the polaris ships to have thoose ticks and never actually used a Super to rat. Geez
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 20	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:43:23 - [954] - Quote CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think... I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways.
Sirran The Lunatic Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 24	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:43:48 - [955] - Quote Lol, ok. This will balance pve ticks? Ok ok, good thing no single person knows what happens when you bosun a Haven. Great fix. But yeah, definitely nerf the most interesting and interactive change you've made to gameplay since I started playing in 2011.
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 35	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:44:52 - [956] - Quote the entire market should just lock up and replace all items with 99999999999999999999999.9 isk send a msg.... F U! CCP ... you wrong for this nerf.
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:49:43 - [957] - Quote Yeah it really is just appalling how negative the response to something CCP is doing to "fix the game." They need to cancel the update until they can better assess the situation they are creating and sell their case a little better to playerbase. I think we deserve it for the years many of us have invested into this game, often with 2 or more accounts as well.
Kalain Kamerov Praetorian Democratic Guard The Serenity Initiative 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:50:55 - [958] - Quote Guys, Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year. Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type
Ralen Zateki Dissidence Dawn The-Culture 194	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:51:57 - [959] - Quote Lord forbid they do something like put gates on sites to stop Super ratting and/ or put a timer mechanism on how many sites you can run in a given period (I mean, really, from a Lore standpoint - for those who give a **** about such things - what sense does it make anyway that you can blap the same f-ing NPC anomaly's again and again). I'm sure some nerds out there multi-box carriers but honestly since the sig changes I don't even know why I'd try to put myself through that. No, let's drop damage on fighters so no one uses the damn things in PVP.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3170	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:51:58 - [960] - Quote Aldent Arkanon wrote: CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think... I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways. Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting. It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 212	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:52:59 - [961] - Quote Kalain Kamerov wrote: Guys, Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year. Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type There is better ways to balance it than nerfing an entire class of ships to death. Just reduce the isk per rat. It is NOT complicated.
Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:54:10 - [962] - Quote Why not add an option to turn Supers and Super capable characters into liquid isk? Like a recycler. For the effort of training into one and getting one they should give something back as of they will take it away from me in days. And all will remain is junk i cannot use. So make an option where i can turn my fitted super into 30b and my toon for it into another 25-30b as tahts their value. I will be happy to have them nerfed only if you add this.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:55:19 - [963] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: Yeah it really is just appalling how negative the response to something CCP is doing to "fix the game." They need to cancel the update until they can better assess the situation they are creating and sell their case a little better to playerbase. I think we deserve it for the years many of us have invested into this game, often with 2 or more accounts as well. Oh...dreams. I'm 100% sure they think like: "Players come and go...new alpha players have to buy tonz of plexes until they figure this thing out. We have time to figure out something until than we earn moneeeeeey!"
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:55:57 - [964] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Greyscale ?
Grabit Maycon Manson Family Advent of Fate 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:56:25 - [965] - Quote Thanks for doing this, makes sense to keep the market steady. Now you "only" have to finally invent something so there is a reason, so that nullsec has to fight each other again, means getting something developed, that they need to fight and not just because of random grudge, boredom, or "i have decided, that i don't like xy". Refinieres are hopefully one step towards this direction, removing this ******** passive income and basically removing the income from lowsec (yeye in theory they will miner there, but be realistic). maybe connect more nullsec with each other, like dronelands to fountain or similar i dunno, it's hard i know :( Good luck everyone, keep up the good work.
Sexy Damsel El Cartel. Solyaris Chtonium 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:57:28 - [966] - Quote I'm pretty sure devs don't read any of the comments. They behave like parents. They made their mind and that's it. Live with it. Very short sight approach. Ppl make less isk ppl buy less plex. Causing less ppl buying plex with reality money. At the end of day capitals being nerfed for making too much isk but incursion not touched. Doesn't nake sense. Well got msg about one of my account expiring soon. Thanks for helping making my mind. Won't plex it. No point
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 27	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:57:29 - [967] - Quote reducing bounties doesnt solve the faucet issue ... hey. yo .. guyz... i have an ideea Lets make Nullsec... NULLSEC again ... like... NOT SAFE !!! Because of fatigue timers and citadels ... did you notice the increasing stagnation of content and offcourse ships destroyed ?! Like really... would you invade a region that has 50 citadel 1 week timers ?! or 100 citadels ? .... its a joke .. really...
Ebony Texas The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance 35	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:57:41 - [968] - Quote Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Kalain Kamerov wrote: Guys, Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year. Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type There is better ways to balance it than nerfing an entire class of ships to death. Just reduce the isk per rat. It is NOT complicated. you reduce those NPC's.. then I want and I want my comrades who have spent billions upgrading the systems and its ihubs back + 20% for ccp's screw up. CCP needs to get over it and leave this class alone.. ill wait till they touch dreads since it seems this summer is Nerf Bat epeening season.
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 12	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:57:47 - [969] - Quote Tim Nering wrote: singthegrief wrote: Cordylus1029 wrote: Nex Gaius wrote: Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't ***** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep. Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault. says the guy who prob rage rolls to get a not descaning ship on grid to point then a whole fleet comes out to kill. and u guys got it easy i use to live in a c4 and if u have hole control u have no need for local and ur prob scanner is ur local if a new anom pops u scan it and roll it off so u have no room to talk friend. LMAO literally fking clueless how so explain?
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 22:58:18 - [970] - Quote Grabit Maycon wrote: Thanks for doing this, makes sense to keep the market steady. Now you "only" have to finally invent something so there is a reason, so that nullsec has to fight each other again, means getting something developed, that they need to fight and not just because of random grudge, boredom, or "i have decided, that i don't like xy". Refinieres are hopefully one step towards this direction, removing this ******** passive income and basically removing the income from lowsec (yeye in theory they will miner there, but be realistic). maybe connect more nullsec with each other, like dronelands to fountain or similar i dunno, it's hard i know :( Good luck everyone, keep up the good work. It does very little of what they say it will accomplish. You think carriers and supercarriers are the only way to rake in isk? Have you tried a t3 cruiser or marauder? Seriously though...the nerf is far too large and doesn't address the unlying issue they say they are correcting. This warrants more time and communication, I hope they show some sense and reconsider for the time being.

Nache Sotken Damage Plan The Serenity Initiative 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:02:40 - [971] - Quote Just put times on anomalies , you did it for the belts . End of problem . As for nerf batting the Carrier's more ..... there is no need . I make ISK from building fighters and after the last changes I saw an uptick in sales . But what you are talking about doing would take all my sales away ! Cap sales will go the same way ! So everyone and not just the 1% are going to be hurting over these new changes . It I remember right CCP has always stayed out of messing with the markets / ISK . Just add a timer like you did for the belts and stop trying to kill this game .
Naren Vintas Some Assembly Required. Rate My Ticks 14	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:04:21 - [972] - Quote I honestly dislike participating in in online discussions, but I fear that unless people who would otherwise stay silent add to the discussion, CCP will continue to push the negative response onto the "1% of the playerbase". Nothing I say here would not have been said already in this topic, but let me reinforce some of these opinions with mine. 1. You are nerfing a pvp aspect of a ship based purely on a pve decisions. This not only does not make sense, it is outright silly. While carriers, one end, generate ISK from all the NPC bounties, they contribute to ISK lost from pvp engagements. Though it seems it is not so much of a case anymore, with the continuous nerfs the carriers are receiving. 2. This change is relatively big. 20% and 30% aren't small numbers. To receive such a short heads up of merely a few days is at best disrespectful to the playerbase, especially to the people who spent long time training into their dream ships, as well as investing big isk into them and the related skills. Now, instead of learning the skills to further improve the dream ship's performance, I will merely close the gap in the lost performance. This is plainly time wasted. There will be no compensation for two months worth of training to field better fighters. 3. The game seems to be rewarding "afk activities" more than it does active engagements. I could fly AFKtar and get the ISK for doing literally nothing, save for occasionally pointing the ship in the right direction. That's not why I chose to fly a carrier. It is a bigger, more powerful ship. It costs more, is juicier target for other people, and actually requires active gameplay rather than simply going AFK and waiting for the checks to roll in. The rewards of actively playing the game already seem to be relatively bad, but now I feel like I'm being punished for wanting to play the game *actively. 4. The change seems to be primarily based on the idea that carriers are this amazing source of money. Please acknowledge that while carriers are, in my opinion, fairly decent option for making isk, there are other activities in the game that yield comparably better ISK income to a player that have not* been touched in forever. The most related to this, of course, would be incursions, which seem to be CCP's precious gem for some strange reason. Factional Warfare can net player ridiculous amounts of money, too, along with exploration. While the latter two do not necessarily "conjure isk from thin air", they contribute to player's wealth. But let me put these aside and focus on generating ISK. If that seems to be the problem, then that is indication of broken ISK generation as a whole. Carriers are not the problem - the system is. Carriers have long been the aspiration of many people. They were meant to be the big, shiny ships that are a big improvement, given the long training queues. However, the moment people started achieving these goals, CCP has realized that perhaps the carrier pilots are getting too good rewards. Guess what. We worked hard to get to these ships and spent a lot of money. "Better rewards" is figuratively written on the hull of these ships. You don't just get to nerf these on a whim, especially with such a short notice. If you feel like there's too much ISK generated, look at the system that generates it - and balance the system as a whole. Alas. I could go on, but there is not really much point, is there. My voice is here. The game has not been fun to play lately for me, partly to the recent nerfs to things. It all does, in all honesty, feel like CCP wants us to multibox, so they can get more money out of subscribtion, and nerf any activity that you could otherwise do solo.
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 21	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:04:45 - [973] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think... I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways. Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting. It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling. The part about people making 260 mil ticks is grossly inaccurate. Nevertheless I agree that the income part needs to be nerfed, just through a method (numerous alternatives have been suggested by players) that doesn't do drastic harm to their already diminished ability in PvP. I personally couldn't really care less about the ratting part (aside from wanting people to still use them to rat so that I can kill them), but its the effect on PvP that is the main frustration for me personally.
Nasar Vyron S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 235	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:05:02 - [974] - Quote Buying Hell 50% off. I swear it's as if you guys don't read the same economic reports as I do. Be glad they are going this route and not just hitting bounties by like 40% which really would effect every player. They aren't even touching application they're still going to track just fine, just might take 2 hits to kill that BB rather than 1. It'll slow you down which is the intention of this! Now go look at the economic report and say with a straight face that something doesn't need to change. In actual combat you're still going to blot out the sun with fighters and destroy dreads well out of their range. Or did the majority of EVE suddenly find their own personal system to super rat in uncontested without me noticing? It's almost like people forgot these are combat vessels and for years just sat motionless in a POS. Don't get me started on the boson+HAW titan ratting problem that's on the rise. BTW - When did I become the one not seeing a problem with a change? Hell my corpmates even gave me the title of doomsday. What are we all coming to?
Scipio Numantinus 30plus Fidelas Constans 2	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:05:42 - [975] - Quote NUTS
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:05:55 - [976] - Quote "This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players." No one plays this god awful game anymore, what the hell are you talking about? So having less subs paying subscription is "sustainable" for a subscription based model in the year 2017? Ok that's some Bernie math there....2011 wants your business model back....
Ralen Zateki Dissidence Dawn The-Culture 194	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:07:12 - [977] - Quote Kalain Kamerov wrote: Guys, Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year. Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type I'm not really arguing that the bounty payout issue is an unsustainable problem. It's the ******** solution combined with the announce Friday implement Tuesday approach that blows my mind. Especially when you are talking about capital ships that take a player so much time and investment (assuming they aren't just Plex-ing into it... a capability which has a not so coincidental correlation to the beginning of Bounty inflation.) And in the meantime the approach to "engaging PVE" is to drop the latest iteration into goon space and have them troll you by blowing it up with a fleet of.... punishers. :golfclap: Yea, we're the problem CCP.
btOw Ragnarson Lisnave Mordus Angels 8	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:11:21 - [978] - Quote Just stop wow to come to eve and now i gona back to wow nice job and whem d3 come half of eve going to it 2 nice job ccp for just try make people stop play eve =(
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 980	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:11:38 - [979] - Quote These changes seem bad because they don't really address the issues at hand. Carriers don't do too much damage, they apply their damage far too well. How should a capital weapon hit frigates perfectly? My fighters track elite frigates better than my heavy drones do, so there is a serious problem there IMO, but that isn't the big one. Without adding a respawn penalty to null anoms, and some meaningful way to make isk in lowsec and NPC nullsec, nothing is going to change. Rich powerful null empires will continue to crank out insane amounts of isk. The solutions of course are respawn penalities, a proportional ihub bill that has a fairly high floor to discourage holding systems that are unused. Also fix FW and make systems upgradeable instead of the terrible tier system, and add something to make l5s and other lowsec revenue streams worthwhile to pursue. As for carriers in PVP aside from being able to track anything for no good reason, they don't really seem overpowered at all to me, but it feels like this is going to make it dreads/supers or GTFO, but I admit it is hard to know how the meta will play out. In PVE I hate how safe carriers are but, they are much better than the almost AFK abilities of the VNI/Ishtar/rattlesnake, at least carriers can't just get 5 accounts and assign fighters to a trigger ship.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 80	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:13:04 - [980] - Quote Reddit subthread that Quant (rather foolishly) tried to wade into this discussion on has a great idea from a Goonswarm member who quite rightly points out that this hurts the single-account players more than most others. The ones that worked to get to carrier without multi-boxing the AFK Ishtar or VNI etc. and have a not-unreasonable expectation that a Capital ship should be better than a sub-capital ship in most circumstances. The idea they had was an excellent one and was simply to apply diminishing returns on ratting bounties. The exact level of returns would probably need some tweaking, but Carriers damage projection would be unhurt for the first few hours, then would taper off. Would impact every other bounty isk source in a consistent manner and result in a moderated and equalised lowering of the isk inflation and bounty problem across the board once diminishing returns dig in. I think we're missing context here, we have no idea where CCP pulled these figures from, though Quant's 780 M per hour per account seems utterly ludicrous given the concentration required for one Super/Carrier, perhaps the data could be provided for this? I'd be amazed if even a single Super/Carrier could get more than about 500 M per hour, but then I've seen stranger things I suppose. Either way Jibrish's suggestion is an excellent one and provides a fairer application that would apply to the other problem areas of bounty generation, rather than smashing the carrier/super into obsolescence. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/dioy4lk/

Dxella Licentia Ex Vereor Phoebe Freeport Republic 9	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:20:54 - [981] - Quote Maybe change the fighter support module. Give it a siege timer, remove or nerf the scan res bonus? Add a scan res drawback to the hulls. Effects both remote and local sebos The quicker lock than a cruiser silly Maybe an idea?
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 213	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:25:40 - [982] - Quote Cismet wrote: Reddit subthread that Quant (rather foolishly) tried to wade into this discussion on has a great idea from a Goonswarm member who quite rightly points out that this hurts the single-account players more than most others. The ones that worked to get to carrier without multi-boxing the AFK Ishtar or VNI etc. and have a not-unreasonable expectation that a Capital ship should be better than a sub-capital ship in most circumstances. The idea they had was an excellent one and was simply to apply diminishing returns on ratting bounties. The exact level of returns would probably need some tweaking, but Carriers damage projection would be unhurt for the first few hours, then would taper off. Would impact every other bounty isk source in a consistent manner and result in a moderated and equalised lowering of the isk inflation and bounty problem across the board once diminishing returns dig in. I think we're missing context here, we have no idea where CCP pulled these figures from (for money generation or the figures for the nerf as we haven't been provided the thought processes behind them, they've just been delivered like a hammer), though Quant's 780 M per hour per account seems utterly ludicrous given the concentration required for one Super/Carrier, perhaps the data could be provided for this? I'd be amazed if even a single Super/Carrier could get more than about 500 M per hour, but then I've seen stranger things I suppose. Either way Jibrish's suggestion is an excellent one and provides a fairer application that would apply to the other problem areas of bounty generation, rather than smashing the carrier/super into obsolescence. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/dioy4lk/ My situation is very close to his and while his suggestion isn't good either(there is NO good option for casual players) it is a FAR better compromise than the nonsense proposed by CCP.
Kodosin Easy Company Rock Grinders 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:31:50 - [983] - Quote From what I've read and understand, people are unhappy about nerfing carriers in general. Here is a suggestion to fix some possible issues with nerfing supercaps, so that ways they aren't nerfed in pvp. Suggestions - On supercaps, add a "role bonus" to reduce the bounty rewards of anomaly isk values by x%. This would help reduce the "isk faucet" that is suggested. - If fighters are involved with any anomaly, add a timer to reduce the amount of isk gained by that person(s) by x%, by bounties. Just a couple of suggestions on this issue. On the other side of the coin though, I can relate to those that don't want this change at all. I cannot fly a carrier at all. So once I finally am able to, I would love to be able to get some easy isk, that I have spent my time, skill points, and other efforts, into getting. If those that would have been affected by the changes i suggested above, would include the disappointment in myself as well. And i don't see where that would be a problem. Those that have worked on getting their skill points up that high should be rewarded, in this case, by being able to make a ton of isk, somewhat easily. I mean hell, if you want to drop the normal bounty amounts, and make some harder anomalies with higher rewards imo.
ROAR Exodus Six White Horses ChaosTheory. 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:33:53 - [984] - Quote Reserved.
Haile Korhal Professional Amateurs 52	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:34:10 - [985] - Quote 46 pages, not reading through that, but going to put my bit in anyway. 15% increased chance NPC's shoot fighters? Well rip carriers, it seems it's 100% chance already. We have to pull our fighters in immediately after first dropping them because they instantly target them. We still lose anywhere from 10-20 fighters per evening while using them. 1-2 more fighters lost per evening won't change much, but we know what that really means. More like 10-20 squad wipes rather than individual fighters! If we lose that much dps from fighters there's even less incentive to bring them out in pvp. The small group has to lean so heavily on expensive ships because that's the only way they can face the blob. I have a feeling this just makes carriers an overly expensive battleship. Also the arbitrary, yay making changes that target nullsec but actually hit everyone everywhere. Egregious Spreadsheet Services - For Spreadsheets as a Service to businesses, corporations, and higher, look no further!
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 18	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:34:16 - [986] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think... I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways. Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting. It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling. Plenty of what he said was inaccurate, including the suggestion that people are making up to 780 mil per account with 17 accounts which will now rage unsub.. Carrier/super ratting with one account melts your brain in an hour, I'd love to know who is doing it with 17 accounts. I suspect no one is.
Keno Skir 1643	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:36:54 - [987] - Quote I'll be interested to see how much attention is paid to this incredibly bad response. Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.- 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 1	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:43:14 - [988] - Quote Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. - really? Are you out of your mind? Just canceled the subscription on my all accounts. Have fun CCP
Ryzelll Vector Galactic Shadow Cartel 3	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:44:37 - [989] - Quote I'm just going come out and say it. CCP is skating a fine line here between Supers and Suntans / Girlfriend's oh Lordy! Amen brother
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 29	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:44:37 - [990] - Quote Keno Skir wrote: I'll be interested to see how much attention is paid to this incredibly bad response. None.

Knuckle Dragger Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:46:33 - [991] - Quote Sassura wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think... I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways. Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting. It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling. Plenty of what he said was inaccurate, including the suggestion that people are making up to 780 mil per account with 17 accounts which will now rage unsub.. Carrier/super ratting with one account melts your brain in an hour, I'd love to know who is doing it with 17 accounts. I suspect no one is. I'd like to know how someone is getting some bad ass ticks like 260 mil, also stating that they're multi-boxing carriers means that they are going against the EULA and using ISBOXER the way that should ban you. I see alot of people that are small game guys, Sutonia, and others happy about these changes however, I for one dont think was the best move overall. I bet the CSM guys all bought a **** ton of BPC's and Machs prior to this change to fill their wallets after what came to light. 1% of the 1% really? take Skill injectors/extractors out and problem solved. 1 more thing like this I think its time to find a new game. Sorry CCP, man this hurts.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 26	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:46:40 - [992] - Quote Reduce the number of Anoms in a system... Problem solved. CCP you guys are a bunch of brain dead morons over there. We've already seen the mining nerf which is ***** hilarious by the way, absolutely kicking the people who invested even more then carriers into rorqs in the nuts and saying a big you. How about you find ways for RAW isk to exit the game instead? Raise taxes in the market place, don't allow citadels such cheap tax rates, reduce NULL SOV rat isks ONLY leave null npc the ** alone.
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:48:03 - [993] - Quote Analius Glover wrote: Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. - really? Are you out of your mind? Just canceled the subscription on my all accounts. Have fun CCP It's just an absurd idea they slipped in at the last moment for Lord only knows what purpose. We elect players to represent us for this very reason, to keep the devs from coming up with half-cocked ideas that are absolutely horrible for the players and community. The effectively castrate capital ships in this manner isn't cool. Where are our reps, why weren't they consulted, and why is this being pushed through days before the patch's release?
pots en Welle KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:48:12 - [994] - Quote Kalain Kamerov wrote: Guys, Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year. Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type Assuming all bounties are coming from carriers and people would continue on exactly the same as they would have without a nerf .. that would only drop the bounty to ~1.8tril but continue increasing by the 200bill/month that has been the average since skill injectors became a thing. All they did was buy themselves 2 months. That is of course not counting for the number of unsubs...
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 30	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:48:24 - [995] - Quote The thing is if they would care about this they would have already closed this topic with a "we will rethink this nerf" message. Is it closed? Is it?
Lamajagarn McMyra No Vacancies No Vacancies. 21	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:48:49 - [996] - Quote Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught.
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 297	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:48:49 - [997] - Quote RIP 4 accounts Get ******....
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 26	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:49:17 - [998] - Quote Knuckle Dragger wrote: Sassura wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think... I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways. Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting. It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling. Plenty of what he said was inaccurate, including the suggestion that people are making up to 780 mil per account with 17 accounts which will now rage unsub.. Carrier/super ratting with one account melts your brain in an hour, I'd love to know who is doing it with 17 accounts. I suspect no one is. I'd like to know how someone is getting some bad ass ticks like 260 mil, also stating that they're multi-boxing carriers means that they are going against the EULA and using ISBOXER the way that should ban you. I see alot of people that are small game guys, Sutonia, and others happy about these changes however, I for one dont think was the best move overall. I bet the CSM guys all bought a **** ton of BPC's and Machs prior to this change to fill their wallets after what came to light. 1% of the 1% really? take Skill injectors/extractors out and problem solved. 1 more thing like this I think its time to find a new game. Sorry CCP, man this hurts. Average regular carrier user make 50m tickets. Super carrier maybe double that if they are lucky and can move around fast enough. 22b isk ships don't deserve 400m an hour? I think they should be earning more. Lets say you play 3 hours a day because you work IRL and are not a brain dead snow flake liberal, it would take you a month in ratting in a super just to replace it if you die including insurance. So yeah I'd say it's just fine. More isk in the game means cheaper plex prices which is actually good for alpha retention rate.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 213	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:49:54 - [999] - Quote Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Uhhhh no
Royaldo Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance 141	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:51:27 - [1000] - Quote Had long hard look at the quant dudes post. Yeah Im done.

Wolfstorm STK Scientific The Initiative. 40	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:53:03 - [1001] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: Analius Glover wrote: Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. - really? Are you out of your mind? Just canceled the subscription on my all accounts. Have fun CCP It's just an absurd idea they slipped in at the last moment for Lord only knows what purpose. We elect players to represent us for this very reason, to keep the devs from coming up with half-cocked ideas that are absolutely horrible for the players and community. The effectively castrate capital ships in this manner isn't cool. Where are our reps, why weren't they consulted, and why is this being pushed through days before the patch's release? CSM has grown into a joke filled with the 1% of the 1% ...
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1380	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:56:09 - [1002] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Panther X wrote: Total Newbie wrote: Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP. Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you: 1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers. 2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter 3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it. I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win. Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need. At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO. CCP you would do well to remember that. The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance. I believe you will not end up not being able to buy PLEX. Hell you can buy PLEX after ONE evening of ratting. Even if you had to spend 2 or 3, its still f***** easy. The economy here is obeying CCP's plan for increasing income for CCP. Reduce isk generation - Players can't plex accounts - Accounts go Alpha - people stop logging in. It then doesn't matter if plex prices go down due to less demand - Damage is done, players are lost. Keep in mind too, when there is less demand for plex and the price does go down - People buy less plex from CCP. Keep pushing CCP, 7 of 11 accounts are already alpha and likely to be extracted. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 31	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:56:44 - [1003] - Quote Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea.
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:57:41 - [1004] - Quote What a shame then, I really don't like that CCP is pushing through something this game-changing at the last moment without selling the idea to us first. Sure, I can just grab some golems or paladins and keep grinding isk with ease -- it's the principle of the matter though. These are end-game ships that are being absolutely eviscerated because of flawed logic and sketchy math. Nerfing carriers and supercarriers will not stop the isk faucet from flowing; they really should delay the change and spend more time talking with the players and investigating other solutions. What a shame.
Radious Servasse Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 114	Posted - 2017.06.09 23:58:35 - [1005] - Quote When there is 1020 comments raging about how bad the new nerf will be.... I wonder if they will listen? Within 24 hours.
Cervantis Storm Respawn Disabled Brute Force Solutions 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:01:32 - [1006] - Quote Knuckle Dragger wrote: Sassura wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago. Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency. This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr pr. account (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT. Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind. Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders. Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think... I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways. Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting. It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling. Plenty of what he said was inaccurate, including the suggestion that people are making up to 780 mil per account with 17 accounts which will now rage unsub.. Carrier/super ratting with one account melts your brain in an hour, I'd love to know who is doing it with 17 accounts. I suspect no one is. I'd like to know how someone is getting some bad ass ticks like 260 mil, also stating that they're multi-boxing carriers means that they are going against the EULA and using ISBOXER the way that should ban you. I see alot of people that are small game guys, Sutonia, and others happy about these changes however, I for one dont think was the best move overall. I bet the CSM guys all bought a **** ton of BPC's and Machs prior to this change to fill their wallets after what came to light. 1% of the 1% really? take Skill injectors/extractors out and problem solved. 1 more thing like this I think its time to find a new game. Sorry CCP, man this hurts. Most people with practice can triple box carriers without many issues. But back to the issue at hand. Just reset Carriers and Supers. Triage Carriers, Pantheon Archons/Aeons, Carriers can deploy 10 drones / fighters, supers can deploy 10 fighter bombers depending on skill, DDA's dont bonus fighters,,, lets go back in time and then try and reinvent the wheel again.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 31	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:02:10 - [1007] - Quote Radious Servasse wrote: When there is 1020 comments raging about how bad the new nerf will be.... I wonder if they will listen? Within 24 hours. That is not a representative number for Mr. Ccp dataguy im 100% sure.
Dyzz e rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:03:35 - [1008] - Quote I wonder if the devs realize they are actually loosing money with all these nerfs. Hope Star Citizen is as good as its hyped up to be.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 31	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:04:36 - [1009] - Quote Dyzz e wrote: I wonder if the devs realize they are actually loosing money with all these nerfs. Hope Star Citizen is as good as its hyped up to be. It is not.:(
Trevize Demerzel 96	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:06:32 - [1010] - Quote Problem fixed. No more isk will be generated by my ratting or by my Rorq. I've unsubbed all 9 of my accounts. -3 Super Carrier pilots (2 parking pilots.. cause no I did not rat in 3 supers... don't be silly) -2 Fax Pilots -1 Rorq pilot -2 Hulk pilots. -1 Titan pilot And no you cannot have my stuff, it can just rot or until such time CCP pulls their collective heads from their butt and I'll return someday. Was good timing anyway.... I pay for Eve a year in advance and all my accounts renew in July anyway. Made the choice even easier.. Peace out CCP, got your wish. Pushing your paying customers out of the game. Perhaps I'll make a new alpha and do the free to play thing. No longer makes sense to field big ISK ships. The risk no longer justifies the reward. Anyway... so far tonight I've spent all my normal "game time" looking for something new to play. Feel free to PM me any good suggestions. I'm at a total loss. Fired up Skyrim... hard to motivate for that. I left Elder Scrolls Online for Eve... Not sure I want to go back to that either. After 15 years of Everquest... no way... not going back to that. I may try my hand at building faction with wife. :-) Pretty sad CCP.... I'm not even leaving Eve for another game! As you can see from above I'm a pretty hard core gamer too. Nicely done. Nicely nicely done. -

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6578	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:06:44 - [1011] - Quote Ralph Shepard wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions. Which means this is just an excuse from you. Incursion payouts are a fraction of pirate bounties. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png But please keep up the histrionics. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 299	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:07:44 - [1012] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. This is how CCP really feels about the their playerbase PSA a supercap certainly does not make 700mil an hr and anyone who claims is mentally ********. You would chain the first set of anoms too fast for them to respawn even with ADM 6. CCP Do you even play this game? Also you can't fricking multibox 17 carriers or supers with the new drone UI. and since imput broadcasting is banned on Isboxer it is impossible.
InterStellar Architect InterStellar Architects Corporation 24	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:08:37 - [1013] - Quote I fully agree that having an ever-increasing supply of ISK is detrimental to the economy, and CCP is doing the right thing by nerfing this ISK faucet. The 1% of the players who are complaining is making such a big deal out of this, and sometimes it seems like they might even use alts to complain just to make their voices louder. And I hope CCP do not cater to them. The ever-increasing ISK faucet needs to be nerfed. Unfortunately they cannot make this nerf happen by buffing the bounty-generating NPC's, because it will have too much of an impact on the majority of the population that use smaller ships to rat.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6578	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:09:33 - [1014] - Quote Gianni Zuiverloon wrote: FIX THE ANOMALIES NOT THE CAPITAL SHIPS. NEW ANOMALIES FOR CARRIERS ONLY AND RESTRICTED ACCESS TO THE CURRENT ANOMS FOR CARRIERS. AFTER YEARS OF TIME WASTED SKILLING A SHIP YOU NERF IT LIKE THAT?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS?? GIVE ME BACK ALL THE SKILL POINTS YOU THIEFS. -4 ACCOUNTS SUB RIGHT NOW. UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND COMPLETELY. Bye bye If you nerf the anomalies you nerf ISK generation for everyone...even those not causing the problem. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:10:31 - [1015] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Radious Servasse wrote: When there is 1020 comments raging about how bad the new nerf will be.... I wonder if they will listen? Within 24 hours. That is not a representative number for Mr. Ccp dataguy im 100% sure. 1. It's actually a blatant lie, nobody is capable of raking in the kind of isk he is trying to convince us is being made. 280 million isk in a tick--who are the derps that actually believe that to be true?? 2. Beyond that, who are the 1% players that own carriers to rat in them? Dudes in every alliance, every renter, and every low sec corp in the entire game. 3. There's still no excuse for trying to sneak in such a game changing nerf days before the release of a major patch. It's just really shocking how they think they can do whatever they want to the playerbase without even giving us the respect of allowing for proper community testing before hand. In short, they are vastly exaggerating the amount of isk being made by carriers and super carriers while understating to a huge degree the amount of people that will be affected.
Yodasmaster4 Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:11:47 - [1016] - Quote I disagree with the "bit too effective in PVP" just reduce the bounties.
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 14	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:12:17 - [1017] - Quote BURN JITA IS ON LETS GET #REKT!!
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 31	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:13:06 - [1018] - Quote InterStellar Architect wrote: I fully agree that having an ever-increasing supply of ISK is detrimental to the economy, and CCP is doing the right thing by nerfing this ISK faucet. The 1% of the players who are complaining is making such a big deal out of this, and sometimes it seems like they might even use alts to complain just to make their voices louder. And I hope CCP do not cater to them. The ever-increasing ISK faucet needs to be nerfed. Unfortunately they cannot make this nerf happen by buffing the bounty-generating NPC's, because it will have too much of an impact on the majority of the population that use smaller ships to rat. Irony right? Right?
Thev Sonata Paxton Industries Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:13:56 - [1019] - Quote Dont be stupid CCP.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6579	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:18:33 - [1020] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: Average regular carrier user make 50m tickets. Super carrier maybe double that if they are lucky and can move around fast enough. 22b isk ships don't deserve 400m an hour? I think they should be earning more. Lets say you play 3 hours a day because you work IRL and are not a brain dead snow flake liberal, it would take you a month in ratting in a super just to replace it if you die including insurance. So yeah I'd say it's just fine. More isk in the game means cheaper plex prices which is actually good for alpha retention rate. I'm going to say no. You should probably not be able to rat up another ship like that in 55 hours of ratting. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Wilfred Motte Shadow Proclamation 15 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:19:55 - [1021] - Quote Millpucky wrote: Wilfred Motte wrote: Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates. Well played, CCP. Well. Played. 2 weeks? WOW! see skill injectors need to go away. Took me YEARS to get into a Capital class ship. No dude. You misunderstood. I didn't go from freaking subscribe to carrier in two weeks. I've been skilling towards it for about a year. I dropped $200 to fill that gap. Skill injectors do, in fact, not need to go away. CCP made $200 off of me in order to buy those to do that. Does that make sense? Maybe not, because it would have translated to another annual subscription, but I would have subscribed anyway, so it was extra money they made out of hand.
Trevize Demerzel 99	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:20:29 - [1022] - Quote To be clear... I'm not upset about the nerf to the isk that can be made in a carrier/super while ratting. I'm pissed that they've made supers ... a 30bil isk ship fitted so easily defanged and killed. It sucks in PVP already and they just made it worse. They are also making the fighters 15% more likely to be shot at by rats. Go get bent CCP. Seriously... A change I'd be fine with: Reduction in the dmg dealt by fighters to rats. Increase fighter EHP Make fighters have better resists to being rendered useless in PVP To be up front on this issue.. Yes I rat in a super. I average 85mil ticks. I'm sure many do better then I do. I live in an area with frequent hot droppers, frequent gangs and other "hazards". I also have kids so I'm fairly casual. I'll run sites for an hour or so then safe up and deal with real life. I'm not hard core ratting for hours on end. I rat at best for 1.5 hours 3-4 times a week. Obviously I'm not the target problem here. But ya.... I'm tired of being the target of this ill conceived nerfs. -
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6579	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:20:55 - [1023] - Quote Yodasmaster4 wrote: I disagree with the "bit too effective in PVP" just reduce the bounties. Then you are nerfing bounties for those not causing the problem. Good job. Lets go nerf the income for the vast majority of players. Why? Did they do something wrong? Nope. A very small subset of players were injecting too much ISK into the game so we are screwing over everyone else EXCEPT those players causing the problem. Balance is just a word in the dictionary between Bad and Boob to you isn't it? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
kev kammer inv1 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:22:25 - [1024] - Quote **** i have spent well over a year (and alot alot of isk and money) planning to do carriers finally got skills done to almost good place iv aimed a year towards this as ishtar and vni were just boring and to much afk. Carriers seemed fun more of a challenge and better for me as i wanted to get into a cap battles and move towards a mino, and use the isk from ratting to pay for the losses and skill books. I pay for my accounts and spend the isk i make in game on ships to blow up. This feels like all your doing is making pve harder to sell plex but your wrong vni and ishtar is the problem never made so much as 2 accounts ishtars ratting in havens, guess back to that then. Lower the bounties by 5% to 10% not keep weakening one ship type. Hurry up and fix assault frigs first. The people who do pve should have an aim stopping at vni now seems perfect why get any ship bigger than that for pve. (in null)
Nasar Vyron S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 237	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:24:57 - [1025] - Quote Yodasmaster4 wrote: I disagree with the "bit too effective in PVP" just reduce the bounties. Have you looked at the damage output of a Erebus vs a Nyx? A Leviathan vs a Wyvern? Super's have higher sustained damage output than a titan as it stands unless you start factoring in a targeted DD on cooldown -and that's just paper dps not actual. Titans can't even compare in application on a good day. I'm not saying buff titans by any means, I hate power creep on all levels, but if you don't think something is out of wack with that picture I don't really know what to say. PvP aside, you do realize nerfing bounties hurts everyone, including the little guy. It's like people who argue for a flat tax and ignore the fact that the top 1% hold the majority of the wealth and sit on it so it's not even circulating which is horribly unhealthy for any economy.
kev kammer inv1 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:29:20 - [1026] - Quote Its annoying at least say your going to do it give a month then discuss convince and then do it. IF its ratting that is the problem solve it give all caps a role bonus somehow so when the rat they get less isk the longer they rat more they get penalised but over all nerfing dps of a carriers is my problem not a supper as suppers are a little op.
Curant Thanger Kontained Chaos Blades of Grass 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:34:15 - [1027] - Quote a negative isk hull modifier on capitals, easy, done, solves problem without killing pvp
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 38	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:39:54 - [1028] - Quote Already gave my 2 cents about this topic but I'm back due to CCP Quant's response on Reddit. Posting ludicrous numbers and later on editing the post to lower them...and even later on admitting that even the edited numbers were cherry-picked is not giving any trust-inducing vibes. Cherry-picking is always a sign of attempting to manipulate opinions in your favor. Realizing that you ****** up but instead of doing the right thing, you go ahead and fill a post with false info is a new kind of low I never expected from CCP. It is true that they have made poor decisions about game mechanics or balance in the past, but never have I seen such an insulting behavior from them -- then again, I rarely go to forums so maybe this was the eye-opener I needed to finally lose all respect for CCP. I would also like to point out that in his infinite wisdom, Quant used only info (even if cherry-picked) that represented supercarrier ratting, while purposefully ignoring normal carrier ticks because they were too small to cause the impact he wanted to create. While it may come as a surprise to you, CCP, most of the players affected by the nerfs are just middle-classed capital pilots all over New Eden, ratting in their normal carriers -- and these people dont come near the 270mil ticks Quant was crying about, while bravely attempting to throw himself to the "wolves" so as to take the hate away from his comrades. Nor do they get close to the later mentioned 140mil ticks that were admitted to be the real data-mined tick of a supercarrier. While I am sure that CCP eyes will never fall on this post, let alone muster the patience to read it, I feel the need to continue, in hopes that players who bought into Quant's bullshit will read and know the actual truth. In my best moments, my ticks are around 60-63 mil -- while on average they range from 50 to 55. That is on a Nidhoggur trained to lvl 5, with max fighter skills and all the possible dps that can be crammed in it, without the use of officer mods. From all my alliance mates that fly a carrier, I've never seen anyone break the 55mil/tick limit, even at their best. Now some would say that 63 mil ticks are a great deal of ISK and I would agree to them, if I didnt know that to get that kind of income, I need to ignore any and all other activities (including simple things like chatting, alt-tabing for small periods or even paying attention to other ingame info), while dedicating my focus completely to the site. The downside to this is that after 1-2 hours of ratting in such a way, your brain is just begging you for a reason to dock the carrier and do something else. In short... its unsustainable. In the meantime, you have VNI and Ishtar pilots getting 20mil ticks but ratting 23/7 -- getting less ISK/tick but more ISK/day due to the effortless mechanic of drone boats. Yet, despite all this... we, the carrier pilots... the people who actually fit in CCP's campaign of "Anti-afk-isk-making" are the ones getting punished for their inability to manage/balance their game. Its not about the ISK, CCP. These posts are the culmination of a whole year's worth of bad decisions on your part, implementation of crap mechanics and downright stupid nerfs. And on top of that, to remove any chance at saving face, you give these changes a 4 day notice. Its funny how yesterday I was so pumped up for the chance to buy the long craved "Hazard Control" skin for my favorite class of ship... only to conclude this day that I am done with the game. I am sorry that I have just 2 accounts to unsub, as CCP needs to be punished for their lack of respect to the people that are keeping them in business --- luckily, though, there are players with many more accounts than me who are just as outraged, and are going to do the same.
kev kammer inv1 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:44:07 - [1029] - Quote lol i just had a look at few chimera and Archon normal fits as in no bling 3 damage amps tech 2 and tech 1 drones tech 1 fighter support 3 with the suggested well new stats and dam a rattlesnake can do more damage i got 1200 dps almost max skill, why not take away thanatos and nid damage bonus make all the carriers a bit more level.
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.10 00:45:51 - [1030] - Quote Closed for Cleaning ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 26	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:34:16 - [1031] - Quote ISD Max Trix wrote: Quote: 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 4. Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. 8. Use of profanity is prohibited. The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter. 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. 23. Post constructively. Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting. Post and those quoting them were removed for one or more of the above reasons. You might not like what was said, but we don't like the changes. That's how life goes. There was no real need to close this topic for "cleaning" especially when it's prime time hours for most countries to debate this topic. And the worst part of all this was the one CSM who replied to this thread said three damn words, that to me is insanity.
Le Mittani Free Ritto 34	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:36:50 - [1032] - Quote Hey CCP maybe make fozzie moderate threads instead of the ISD, first of all the ISD don't deserve it and second of all it would keep him away from ruining the game for a bit
Raz Keriz 17th PARSEC Red Alliance 24	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:39:36 - [1033] - Quote #kickfozzie
Anon Imity Deus-Ex-Machina Circle-Of-Two 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:40:39 - [1034] - Quote Remember CCP, is it wise losing subscriptions just because you don't find another way to solve this "problem"? Change your mind please and try to test things before introducing them without bothering us players.
Unit562 Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:45:32 - [1035] - Quote Burn Jita, Fire CCP Fozzie. #wewillnotbackdown #fixSteve
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:47:16 - [1036] - Quote Severely disappointed in you CCP.
Paradigm Calibre Bros Before Holes 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:48:02 - [1037] - Quote Don't let the nullbears ruin carriers for everyone! Damned nullbears... If PVE ratting is making too much money (and I can't disagree on that), then buff the rats or reduce the bounties, don't nerf carriers... How was it figured they're so strong in PVP that a 20-30% reduction is justified? 5-10%? Fine, tweak away. But this proposal is too huge.
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:49:05 - [1038] - Quote @ccp we all understand your attempting to protect your bottom line with sales of plex, however the current state of issuing Nerfs without any prior notice or a truly legitimate reason other then attempting to quell the progress of the goons..is very unreasonable... a blanket nerf is not going to repair the issue at hand the damage is already done to the eco system all that these subsequent nerfs are going to result in is a even further player base reduction then is already being seen and the whole point of a sandbox game is to have the players shape it with minimal interference from ccp. myself as a long time player have progressed to the point where the game has become stale and if you take the feeling of any progression or even making isk for that matter to a level where you feel like your not getting anywhere it removes any remaining incentive to continue playing. i personally dont believe this is a matter of economy anymore its a matter of introduction of content or even a expansion of a new region for that matter would go alot longer of way in retaining players and introducing new players to the game. but thats just my opinion
Frockly Geiger Rumors Mining Corp Jamyl Syndicate 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:49:18 - [1039] - Quote CCP What do you want us to train for that wont get nerfed for isk generation? High sec Incursions? I mean throw us a bone here.
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.10 01:52:05 - [1040] - Quote Quote: 31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. 33. "Quitting" posts are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience channel. CCP recognize that during the course of gameplay a lot of friendships are made between players and that sometimes if a player is taking a break or departing from the EVE universe that they would like to say goodbye on the forums. Posts of this nature are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum, and must be civil and well worded. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Le Mittani Free Ritto 35	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:00:52 - [1041] - Quote Good luck removing all of the quitting and ccp bashing quotes dude, this thread is almost as much of a poopstorm as the idea its discussing
Troedoff Dude Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 25	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:08:11 - [1042] - Quote Dare I say a monocle style protest may be on the horizon? I sure hope so. We are aware that you are switching to a more micro transaction model CCP. Hence the hiring of the micro transaction guy, the free to play model, and the changing of aurum to plex.Even the way you advertise plex for sale on your site. The look you get this for free bs. Keep forcing your loyal player base into a corner, and watch it shrink.
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:08:19 - [1043] - Quote stupid change, disapoint on you CCP, so you really like those multi box player because they give you money? but that will kill you .
Lamajagarn McMyra No Vacancies No Vacancies. 21	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:09:11 - [1044] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea. 10 battleships properly fit, pirate or blops probly clocks in around 2 bil each, a total of 20 bil on field that is split up over 10 people. Compare to 10 cruisers vs a battleship, the battleship will most likely be dead in minutes. The built in stabs on the super makes it incredibly hard to catch anyways assuming the pilot ain't a complete herpaderp. Risk free overpowered super ratting just brings us closer to suffering the fate of the chinese server.
The Lone Barfolo Order of the Flaming Sun 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:11:25 - [1045] - Quote Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea. 10 battleships properly fit, pirate or blops probly clocks in around 2 bil each, a total of 20 bil on field that is split up over 10 people. Compare to 10 cruisers vs a battleship, the battleship will most likely be dead in minutes. The built in stabs on the super makes it incredibly hard to catch anyways assuming the pilot ain't a complete herpaderp. Risk free overpowered super ratting just brings us closer to suffering the fate of the chinese server. So ... what happened on the Chinese server?
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:14:09 - [1046] - Quote Troedoff Dude wrote: Dare I say a monocle style protest may be on the horizon? I sure hope so. We are aware that you are switching to a more micro transaction model CCP. Hence the hiring of the micro transaction guy, the free to play model, and the changing of aurum to plex.Even the way you advertise plex for sale on your site. The look you get this for free bs. Keep forcing your loyal player base into a corner, and watch it shrink. I am looking forward to the protests. This game only exists because the players and devs came together to make it great. Hubris has blinded them, and caused poorly thought out and planned changes with inappropriate lacking in transparency and working with the community to solve problems. Bring us your problems, ask our input, debate openly with us - not just the handful of elites with the cares of empires. No more of this we see a problem, here is the WoW fix for it, deal and like it. That is not how this community works.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 26	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:14:32 - [1047] - Quote You straight up deleted my comment that said you locked this thread during prime time and it wasn't needed, wow censorship to the maximum. You may not tolerate what we have to say, but we don't tolerate investing thousands of our own hours and dollars over the years only to have the most ridiculous of change ever happen. Also where can I see these ruined models of the classic vexor, ishtar ships?
Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:16:43 - [1048] - Quote The Lone Barfolo wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea. 10 battleships properly fit, pirate or blops probly clocks in around 2 bil each, a total of 20 bil on field that is split up over 10 people. Compare to 10 cruisers vs a battleship, the battleship will most likely be dead in minutes. The built in stabs on the super makes it incredibly hard to catch anyways assuming the pilot ain't a complete herpaderp. Risk free overpowered super ratting just brings us closer to suffering the fate of the chinese server. So ... what happened on the Chinese server? There is a complete swamp

ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:17:19 - [1049] - Quote Removed a post discussing moderation. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:19:36 - [1050] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Troedoff Dude wrote: Dare I say a monocle style protest may be on the horizon? I sure hope so. We are aware that you are switching to a more micro transaction model CCP. Hence the hiring of the micro transaction guy, the free to play model, and the changing of aurum to plex.Even the way you advertise plex for sale on your site. The look you get this for free bs. Keep forcing your loyal player base into a corner, and watch it shrink. I am looking forward to the protests. This game only exists because the players and devs came together to make it great. Hubris has blinded them, and caused poorly thought out and planned changes with inappropriate lacking in transparency and working with the community to solve problems. Bring us your problems, ask our input, debate openly with us - not just the handful of elites with the cares of empires. No more of this we see a problem, here is the WoW fix for it, deal and like it. That is not how this community works. I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players.

Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:23:40 - [1051] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: Please stop deleting the post where I referenced that you didn't need to close the thread during prime time. I want to know who it is, so I can file a ticket to their superior, that's ridiculous. I am a Senior Game Master for another company I know how a real business handles their customers. I am not in violation of any rules stating that opinion, please stop deleting my threads. It's pointless-they don't need constructive criticism. They need something to "hamsters" nodded his head and rejoiced. For reporting to investors.
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:25:25 - [1052] - Quote Quote: 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. Still removing post for the above reason. Support tickets can be filed here : https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Unit562 Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:27:11 - [1053] - Quote inb4 Archon/Aeon are 100% worthless after changes. A Vagabond will do more DPS.
Nortal Aldent Hate By Design Inc. Asylum Consortium 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:27:13 - [1054] - Quote So, I just got into a carrier a wee while back and have only used it PVE...and so I see how it will impact "my" game in that regards, but a 20% dmg nerf....how will that impact PVP use?
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:27:26 - [1055] - Quote Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea. 10 battleships properly fit, pirate or blops probly clocks in around 2 bil each, a total of 20 bil on field that is split up over 10 people. Compare to 10 cruisers vs a battleship, the battleship will most likely be dead in minutes. The built in stabs on the super makes it incredibly hard to catch anyways assuming the pilot ain't a complete herpaderp. Risk free overpowered super ratting just brings us closer to suffering the fate of the chinese server. then don't nerf the carrier, nerf the multi box players , nerf the smartbomb, nerf the 24hours ratting, they ruined the Chinese server. And they are ruining tranquility. hummmmmmm, However, CCP like em, may be they give CCP more money, yes, i'm happy to see CCP ruin itself, lets see the economic breakdown in the future.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:27:55 - [1056] - Quote ISD Max Trix wrote: Quote: 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. Still removing post for the above reason. Support tickets can be filed here : https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us I have filed a complaint ticket against you, to be fair you're abusing your position. I've 19 GM's and 8 Board Admins under me and if I saw them doing what you were doing in our company they would be fired. You don't silence people based on opinions and try to cite some forum policy to shut them down because you don't like what they have to say. If someone is being abusive or discussing bans that is entirely acceptable to shut those down, however deleting my replies with out even altering them from the get go was a huge mistake for you.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:28:18 - [1057] - Quote Alexksey Buldakov wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Troedoff Dude wrote: Dare I say a monocle style protest may be on the horizon? I sure hope so. We are aware that you are switching to a more micro transaction model CCP. Hence the hiring of the micro transaction guy, the free to play model, and the changing of aurum to plex.Even the way you advertise plex for sale on your site. The look you get this for free bs. Keep forcing your loyal player base into a corner, and watch it shrink. I am looking forward to the protests. This game only exists because the players and devs came together to make it great. Hubris has blinded them, and caused poorly thought out and planned changes with inappropriate lacking in transparency and working with the community to solve problems. Bring us your problems, ask our input, debate openly with us - not just the handful of elites with the cares of empires. No more of this we see a problem, here is the WoW fix for it, deal and like it. That is not how this community works. I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. Got a fair few already in jita, I'm hopeful more will show up. Watching damage control from what they had to know was going to be horribly received changes makes me feel terribly sad for the state and mentality they have fallen into. They had better options, they had better ways of doing it, they even had better ways of gaining community support. Instead they treat us like dogs and kick us. It is very telling.
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:30:16 - [1058] - Quote So what's the point of having a 30b Super with heavy fighters that cost me more than a t1 battleship per flight? get rid of afk ishtars and kill off invulnerable rorquals if you wanna hurt the nullsec isk fountain. they cost nothing, require no effort, and put mountains of isk into the game. and Titans may get amazing ticks, but they lose a good amount of it to fuel production. (while risking almost 100b mind you) You guys made WH space with the theme of Risk VS Reward but you keep nerfing the big ticket risks by taking away their reward for risking that much. i mean you guys just gave goonswarm a personalized isk faucet they cleared with punishers. Might as well be fox news with how fair and balanced this is. There's almost no reason to have a super these days. it's so hard to not be angry about this.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4005	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:30:17 - [1059] - Quote Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:38:55 - [1060] - Quote Aries Stark wrote: So what's the point of having a 30b Super with heavy fighters that cost me more than a t1 battleship per flight? get rid of afk ishtars and kill off invulnerable rorquals if you wanna hurt the nullsec isk fountain. they cost nothing, require no effort, and put mountains of isk into the game. and Titans may get amazing ticks, but they lose a good amount of it to fuel production. (while risking almost 100b mind you) You guys made WH space with the theme of Risk VS Reward but you keep nerfing the big ticket risks by taking away their reward for risking that much. i mean you guys just gave goonswarm a personalized isk faucet they cleared with punishers. Might as well be fox news with how fair and balanced this is. There's almost no reason to have a super these days. it's so hard to not be angry about this. Ishtars also hit 1/3rd of what a carrier can hit per tick, don't really want to hear that crap. Also the reason they work is because they are fast and the drones are good. That' what gallente focuses on for their Hacs.

DarkYakuza Talie-Kuo Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:39:54 - [1061] - Quote Well... 20% decrease damage to my nid... guess that's it then. We had a good run
Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:40:13 - [1062] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Troedoff Dude wrote: Dare I say a monocle style protest may be on the horizon? I sure hope so. We are aware that you are switching to a more micro transaction model CCP. Hence the hiring of the micro transaction guy, the free to play model, and the changing of aurum to plex.Even the way you advertise plex for sale on your site. The look you get this for free bs. Keep forcing your loyal player base into a corner, and watch it shrink. I am looking forward to the protests. This game only exists because the players and devs came together to make it great. Hubris has blinded them, and caused poorly thought out and planned changes with inappropriate lacking in transparency and working with the community to solve problems. Bring us your problems, ask our input, debate openly with us - not just the handful of elites with the cares of empires. No more of this we see a problem, here is the WoW fix for it, deal and like it. That is not how this community works. I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. Got a fair few already in jita, I'm hopeful more will show up. Watching damage control from what they had to know was going to be horribly received changes makes me feel terribly sad for the state and mentality they have fallen into. They had better options, they had better ways of doing it, they even had better ways of gaining community support. Instead they treat us like dogs and kick us. It is very telling. We can hear only one way If you disagree at least for one month will not extend your subscription. This hole will be immediately evident in reports to investors
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:41:17 - [1063] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. to be fair nevyn the issue lies with the fact of the lack of content to deplete the current stockpiles of isk...even with the said nerfs coming it would take years to even alleviate the proposed issue being brought forward right now. the only people being affected are the players without assets and further stunts growth while the rich continue to get richer despite the nerfs due to the assets at their disposal. whats to stop them from creating more pilots to offset the nerfs. just even more nerfs
Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:43:01 - [1064] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. and maybe we should raise the archive, say for the last 5 years?and lo and behold,every year the same.
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:44:57 - [1065] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: Ishtars also hit 1/3rd of what a carrier can hit per tick, don't really want to hear that crap. Also the reason they work is because they are fast and the drones are good. That' what gallente focuses on for their Hacs. yeah, ishtars also cost 1/5th of what a carrier does, so i dont really wanna hear that crap either. RvR
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4005	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:45:18 - [1066] - Quote MONTYJOHN wrote: to be fair nevyn the issue lies with the fact of the lack of content to deplete the current stockpiles of isk...even with the said nerfs coming it would take years to even alleviate the proposed issue being brought forward right now. No disagreement on that front, but the isk faucet has clearly spiked also since the carrier changes and the velocity of the isk supply increasing has gone up. So even with conflict to deplete the isk it would still be an issue and need fixing. To the above poster RvR is not linear. Nor is it ever a good reason to keep something unbalanced in existence.
Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:45:23 - [1067] - Quote MONTYJOHN wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. to be fair nevyn the issue lies with the fact of the lack of content to deplete the current stockpiles of isk...even with the said nerfs coming it would take years to even alleviate the proposed issue being brought forward right now. the only people being affected are the players without assets and further stunts growth while the rich continue to get richer despite the nerfs due to the assets at their disposal. whats to stop them from creating more pilots to offset the nerfs. just even more nerfs That's the point-we need content,more content.and separate content for pilots of capitals and supers,and that would be where to spend it. (although given the number of lost super on KB can be seen that now the ISK is spent at a breakneck speed)
limited velocity The Institution Ship Yards 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:48:51 - [1068] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. Seriously? you understand the EVE economy? please.... 10 years of flying around and I can tell you that you are as blind as a bat if you think this is anything more then a money grab attempt slowly taking form. keep Drinking that coolaid about how "Goons mining and ratting" are making your eve life **** and nerfing them "tiks" will do anything more then kill the little guy trying to plex his accounts while those who can still afford to buy and sell plex inflate the prices for those poor bastards who have to grind, man gtfo with your bs
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:49:05 - [1069] - Quote Aries Stark wrote: Khara Hirl wrote: Ishtars also hit 1/3rd of what a carrier can hit per tick, don't really want to hear that crap. Also the reason they work is because they are fast and the drones are good. That' what gallente focuses on for their Hacs. yeah, ishtars also cost 1/5th of what a carrier does, so i dont really wanna hear that crap either. RvR Carriers don't make 5 times what a ishtar does because they are slower to move not because they cost 5 times more. Hell making 3 times more then an ishtar for a ship that cost 5 times more, is a nice bump up in pay to be honest. RVR my ass, excuses excuses maybe you should stop blinging out your ships.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:49:59 - [1070] - Quote limited velocity wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. Seriously? you understand the EVE economy? please.... 10 years of flying around and I can tell you that you are as blind as a bat if you think this is anything more then a money grab attempt slowly taking form. keep Drinking that coolaid about how "Goons mining and ratting" are making your eve life **** and nerfing them "tiks" will do anything more then kill the little guy trying to plex his accounts while those who can still afford to buy and sell plex inflate the prices for those poor bastards who have to grind, man gtfo with your bs Careful there your thread might end up missing some how by some mysterious force for saying this is an attempt at a cash grab.

MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:50:19 - [1071] - Quote Alexksey Buldakov wrote: MONTYJOHN wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. to be fair nevyn the issue lies with the fact of the lack of content to deplete the current stockpiles of isk...even with the said nerfs coming it would take years to even alleviate the proposed issue being brought forward right now. the only people being affected are the players without assets and further stunts growth while the rich continue to get richer despite the nerfs due to the assets at their disposal. whats to stop them from creating more pilots to offset the nerfs. just even more nerfs That's the point-we need content,more content.and separate content for pilots of capitals and supers,and that would be where to spend it. (although given the number of lost super on KB can be seen that now the ISK is spent at a breakneck speed) the only solution i can realistically see at this point is instead of issuing a blanket dps nerf to carriers remove the 5% per level bonus from nid/than and apply a static 5% damage increase and create a new racial bonus that benefits carriers in a new way that is more condusive to a realistic compromise to the situation
Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:53:46 - [1072] - Quote limited velocity wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. Seriously? you understand the EVE economy? please.... 10 years of flying around and I can tell you that you are as blind as a bat if you think this is anything more then a money grab attempt slowly taking form. keep Drinking that coolaid about how "Goons mining and ratting" are making your eve life **** and nerfing them "tiks" will do anything more then kill the little guy trying to plex his accounts while those who can still afford to buy and sell plex inflate the prices for those poor bastards who have to grind, man gtfo with your bs I think You are a little not adequate. In my post there is not a word about any of those things You. But in your words I catch only a lot of pain about how You can't kill with impunity on the spot carriers and supercarriers
Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:57:37 - [1073] - Quote Alexksey Buldakov wrote: limited velocity wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. Seriously? you understand the EVE economy? please.... 10 years of flying around and I can tell you that you are as blind as a bat if you think this is anything more then a money grab attempt slowly taking form. keep Drinking that coolaid about how "Goons mining and ratting" are making your eve life **** and nerfing them "tiks" will do anything more then kill the little guy trying to plex his accounts while those who can still afford to buy and sell plex inflate the prices for those poor bastards who have to grind, man gtfo with your bs I think You are a little not adequate. In my post there is not a word about any of those things You. But in your words I catch only a lot of pain about how You can't kill with impunity on the spot carriers and supercarriers P.S.And in any case I'll be doing significantly more than You "poor" ISK/hour.
Lamajagarn McMyra No Vacancies No Vacancies. 22	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:58:39 - [1074] - Quote Dengdeng Xiao wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea. 10 battleships properly fit, pirate or blops probly clocks in around 2 bil each, a total of 20 bil on field that is split up over 10 people. Compare to 10 cruisers vs a battleship, the battleship will most likely be dead in minutes. The built in stabs on the super makes it incredibly hard to catch anyways assuming the pilot ain't a complete herpaderp. Risk free overpowered super ratting just brings us closer to suffering the fate of the chinese server. then don't nerf the carrier, nerf the multi box players , nerf the smartbomb, nerf the 24hours ratting, they ruined the Chinese server. And they are ruining tranquility. hummmmmmm, However, CCP like em, may be they give CCP more money, yes, i'm happy to see CCP ruin itself, lets see the economic breakdown in the future. The multiboxers keep getting nerf after nerf, just watch the rorqual changes. Carrier ratting is to click inuensive to be multiboxed/botted efficiently. Carriers and supercarriers are however very likly responsible for a large fraction of the bounties generated in null. As long as this nerf hits us all equally we might see less isk entering our wallets, said isk might however hold more value. A change like this might delay the economic breakdown, increased competition and destruction might however save us! Nothing in eve yielding high payouts should be safe or easy. :)
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 02:59:46 - [1075] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: Aries Stark wrote: Khara Hirl wrote: Ishtars also hit 1/3rd of what a carrier can hit per tick, don't really want to hear that crap. Also the reason they work is because they are fast and the drones are good. That' what gallente focuses on for their Hacs. yeah, ishtars also cost 1/5th of what a carrier does, so i dont really wanna hear that crap either. RvR Carriers don't make 5 times what a ishtar does because they are slower to move not because they cost 5 times more. Hell making 3 times more then an ishtar for a ship that cost 5 times more, is a nice bump up in pay to be honest. RVR my ass, excuses excuses maybe you should stop blinging out your ships. 300m ishtar pulls in about 20m ticks 2b carrier pulls in about 45m ticks 25b Super pulls in about 120m ticks seems like a fair progression to me. Bling is irreverent to this conversation. If production is the problem, make it easier to destroy, because those numbers look Low AF.
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:02:33 - [1076] - Quote 33. "Quitting" posts are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience channel. CCP recognize that during the course of gameplay a lot of friendships are made between players and that sometimes if a player is taking a break or departing from the EVE universe that they would like to say goodbye on the forums. Posts of this nature are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum, and must be civil and well worded. Post Removed. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:02:45 - [1077] - Quote Aries Stark wrote: Khara Hirl wrote: Aries Stark wrote: Khara Hirl wrote: Ishtars also hit 1/3rd of what a carrier can hit per tick, don't really want to hear that crap. Also the reason they work is because they are fast and the drones are good. That' what gallente focuses on for their Hacs. yeah, ishtars also cost 1/5th of what a carrier does, so i dont really wanna hear that crap either. RvR Carriers don't make 5 times what a ishtar does because they are slower to move not because they cost 5 times more. Hell making 3 times more then an ishtar for a ship that cost 5 times more, is a nice bump up in pay to be honest. RVR my ass, excuses excuses maybe you should stop blinging out your ships. 300m ishtar pulls in about 20m ticks 2b carrier pulls in about 45m ticks 25b Super pulls in about 120m ticks seems like a fair progression to me. Bling is irreverent to this conversation. and thats just part of the problem...why would somebody invest in a carrier for ratting when you could just throw 3-4 ishtars in sites and make same/more isk for fraction of the risk involved...your not removing the current meta only just shifting it
limited velocity The Institution Ship Yards 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:03:44 - [1078] - Quote Alexksey Buldakov wrote: limited velocity wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. Seriously? you understand the EVE economy? please.... 10 years of flying around and I can tell you that you are as blind as a bat if you think this is anything more then a money grab attempt slowly taking form. keep Drinking that coolaid about how "Goons mining and ratting" are making your eve life **** and nerfing them "tiks" will do anything more then kill the little guy trying to plex his accounts while those who can still afford to buy and sell plex inflate the prices for those poor bastards who have to grind, man gtfo with your bs I think You are a little not adequate. In my post there is not a word about any of those things You. But in your words I catch only a lot of pain about how You can't kill with impunity on the spot carriers and supercarriers my statement was not directed at you or what you said it was directed at Nevyn Auscent
Alexis Crane Sharvas Southern Cross Incorporated Shadow Cartel 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:04:44 - [1079] - Quote Seems to me CCP just wants your money. Buy plex online sell in game for the isk, pay the monthly fee to subscribe. GG ccp. Glad I'm signing off in a couple weeks.
Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1209	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:06:29 - [1080] - Quote ahem.....in light of recent news i my self is stepping up to the challenge of storing all your unwanted caps and supers until such time arise for their return. contract your stuff to this character for safe keeping. You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear Because >>I is too hard

Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:07:20 - [1081] - Quote limited velocity wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: limited velocity wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Alexksey Buldakov wrote: I'm afraid we will never see protests as a "Day of wrath"...the Gaming community is not the same,and the developers absolutely exactly the opinion of the players. That & that a sizeable portion of the normal people on the forums actually know the nerf is needed because we understand the EVE economy and have followed the economic reports which clearly show the problem. Seriously? you understand the EVE economy? please.... 10 years of flying around and I can tell you that you are as blind as a bat if you think this is anything more then a money grab attempt slowly taking form. keep Drinking that coolaid about how "Goons mining and ratting" are making your eve life **** and nerfing them "tiks" will do anything more then kill the little guy trying to plex his accounts while those who can still afford to buy and sell plex inflate the prices for those poor bastards who have to grind, man gtfo with your bs I think You are a little not adequate. In my post there is not a word about any of those things You. But in your words I catch only a lot of pain about how You can't kill with impunity on the spot carriers and supercarriers my statement was not directed at you or what you said it was directed at Nevyn Auscent Then I apologize for the misunderstanding (just had a response to my post)
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:08:09 - [1082] - Quote @ ISD Max Trix we know ccp is watching the thread, however would it be such a hardship for a dev or even yourself if your permitted to include yourself in a constructive response to some of the realistic ideas being proposed in the thread and im not talking about the ranting going on. some interaction from devs taking part in feed back of some of the suggestions would go a long way in brokering a better player developer relationship instead of just moderating comments with no real interaction with the player base
Lenna Volkova Chemotherapy Brothers of Tangra 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:08:38 - [1083] - Quote Lol noone likes your stupid idea but you are gonna force it down our throats anyway. Feels wrong because it is wrong. **** you, what is wrong with you?
d0cTeR9 Serenity Cartel The Bastion 387	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:13:11 - [1084] - Quote A nice 'little' up yours to carrier/supercarrier pilots... Been flying carriers and motherships for over 10 years... It's never a good thing to get slapped around like this but heh... EVE will survive Been around since the beginning.
Lamajagarn McMyra No Vacancies No Vacancies. 22	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:15:40 - [1085] - Quote MONTYJOHN wrote: Aries Stark wrote: Khara Hirl wrote: Aries Stark wrote: Khara Hirl wrote: Ishtars also hit 1/3rd of what a carrier can hit per tick, don't really want to hear that crap. Also the reason they work is because they are fast and the drones are good. That' what gallente focuses on for their Hacs. yeah, ishtars also cost 1/5th of what a carrier does, so i dont really wanna hear that crap either. RvR Carriers don't make 5 times what a ishtar does because they are slower to move not because they cost 5 times more. Hell making 3 times more then an ishtar for a ship that cost 5 times more, is a nice bump up in pay to be honest. RVR my ass, excuses excuses maybe you should stop blinging out your ships. 300m ishtar pulls in about 20m ticks 2b carrier pulls in about 45m ticks 25b Super pulls in about 120m ticks seems like a fair progression to me. Bling is irreverent to this conversation. and thats just part of the problem...why would somebody invest in a carrier for ratting when you could just throw 3-4 ishtars in sites and make same/more isk for fraction of the risk involved...your not removing the current meta only just shifting it The risk to the ishtars is arguably higher, if multiboxing it's acctually alot harder to keep track of all 4 at a time, you also have to stay in range of the npcs. just compare the numbers of ishtars/vnis lost daily on zkillboard to carriers/supers. Running 4 of them will also cost you equivalent to one forth of ar super a month in plex/real life money
Bruce Destro Global Dominance Initiative 15	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:19:00 - [1086] - Quote As a long-term eve player and capital pilot, i feel that capitals should never have been able to do anomalies in the first place. they were never intended to be ratting ships, much less the PRIMARY ratting ship. its almost garunteed isk, with minimal risk and effort. my solution? instead of nerfing fighters just add acceleration gates to anomalies. capitals should never have been used to rat anyway. fleeting up with a few friends in hac's or bs's should be the way it works, not this solo afk money crunching.
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:19:51 - [1087] - Quote [/quote] The risk to the ishtars is arguably higher, if multiboxing it's acctually alot harder to keep track of all 4 at a time, you also have to stay in range of the npcs. just compare the numbers of ishtars/vnis lost daily on zkillboard to carriers/supers. Running 4 of them will also cost you equivalent to one forth of ar super a month in plex/real life money [/quote] depends what your doing also though for sustaining your accounts realistically there is a number of ways to keep them going being pi, or even sp extraction for that matter. it might not be the norm but realistically speaking its not uncommon
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:25:57 - [1088] - Quote We should just take away drones ability to auto-aggro npc's while we're at it. GG Afk ratting forever (unless youre smart enough to use auto-targeting missiles which should also be removed).
Odessima ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:33:36 - [1089] - Quote I don't see how these changes were actually thought out that well. The problem will only shift its focus from Carriers and Supers to another ship PVE wise, aside from not actually focusing on what seems to be the problem which seems to be certain Alliances can undock them with impunity for PVE, and as far as PVP it really doesn't make that much sense at all. Titans and supers used to be expensive and hard to actually obtain unless you were in an Alliance that could actually build them, and it originally took years to actually train for one. With injectors and build costs being so low, that is no longer the case. The changes to fighter sigs was a good call, and meant that their damage could be reduced effectively in both PVE and PVP. You can no longer AFK rat in either a super or carrier, you have to be present and active to use them. There are other ships that it is not the case, and with a lower cost ship and skill wise you can pretty much rat with impunity, while you are sitting watching something else and not actually paying much attention to EVE at all, except to change sites. These changes will not really have much affect at all on the PVE structure, because the ones getting the ticks wont actually be affected by it that much, but essentially makes them useless for PVP, unless as stated before they are used in the blob mentality, which isn't really going to change either. The amount of isk and training to use one should actually mean something, and the amount of kills for supers lately isn't showing an overpowered ship type at all. The changes will just make them an overpriced Ship Hauler. It seems to me that CCP brings in changes like this with ships with no actual plan of what these ships are supposed to achieve, or that actually don't investigate the changes they make as deeply as they should, and keep having to bandaid fix things without actually attacking the problem. As far as the PVE side the problem isn't with the ship , but the the PVE, so why nerf the Ship unless you are incapable of actually fixing the underlining issues, which seems to be the NPC's.
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:37:03 - [1090] - Quote for the sake of conversation over player interactions and content over the last few years it has drastically dropped in my opinion and has become more restrictive. if you say look back to even the time of Apocrypha content or even combat opportunity in high sec where far more readily accessible now a days you dont see much fighting going on apart from mercenary corporations

h3110kittyminer We Are Down Syndrome Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:49:37 - [1091] - Quote Well first off i will no longer be paying ccp anymore at all.. Secondly and more importantly lets just make a 20-30bil isk ship absolutely worthless. This is gonna destroy the supers and carriers to the point is there really a reason to use them anymore..... 30% reduction to the long range heavy fighter damage.... i mean really come on what actual use do they have???? cause in PVP there worthless when you can make the short range fighters that do 2-3x the amount of damage have enough range to shoot a pos...... Now with massive nerf to damage how does a mid size super fleet survive a dread bomb? when the dreads will be doing almost as much damage as supers with tank fitted...... but no need for there to be balance right????? You wanna whine about to much isk being generated like someone said on the first page fix the afk ratting ships like ishtars and vexor navies that literally sit in sits all day semi afk or completely afk.... Also wheres the nerf to the rattlesnake that does 1400 dps with max skills thats not "over Powered"??????? As usual the arms dont know what the legs are doing.... quality changes ccp why not just biomass eve cause thats where its headed
Lamajagarn McMyra No Vacancies No Vacancies. 22	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:05:08 - [1092] - Quote Odessima wrote: I don't see how these changes were actually thought out that well. The problem will only shift its focus from Carriers and Supers to another ship PVE wise, aside from not actually focusing on what seems to be the problem which seems to be certain Alliances can undock them with impunity for PVE, and as far as PVP it really doesn't make that much sense at all. Titans and supers used to be expensive and hard to actually obtain unless you were in an Alliance that could actually build them, and it originally took years to actually train for one. With injectors and build costs being so low, that is no longer the case. The changes to fighter sigs was a good call, and meant that their damage could be reduced effectively in both PVE and PVP. You can no longer AFK rat in either a super or carrier, you have to be present and active to use them. There are other ships that it is not the case, and with a lower cost ship and skill wise you can pretty much rat with impunity, while you are sitting watching something else and not actually paying much attention to EVE at all, except to change sites. These changes will not really have much affect at all on the PVE structure, because the ones getting the ticks wont actually be affected by it that much, but essentially makes them useless for PVP, unless as stated before they are used in the blob mentality, which isn't really going to change either. The amount of isk and training to use one should actually mean something, and the amount of kills for supers lately isn't showing an overpowered ship type at all. The changes will just make them an overpriced Ship Hauler. It seems to me that CCP brings in changes like this with ships with no actual plan of what these ships are supposed to achieve, or that actually don't investigate the changes they make as deeply as they should, and keep having to bandaid fix things without actually attacking the problem. As far as the PVE side the problem isn't with the ship , but the the PVE, so why nerf the Ship unless you are incapable of actually fixing the underlining issues, which seems to be the NPC's. While the ammount of kills for suoercarriers is perhaps nothing to complain about the daily number of losses sure is however. With new stats carriers will be more balanced for pvp around 12-1500 dps with really good tank, application and a jump drive. Sure fighters may be killed or jammed but no ship should be without a counter (all otver ships in the game may be renderd unable to deal damage through ewar aswell). Why shoulda cheap ship (after insurance) such as a carrier be able to single handedly wipe the floor with many small gang comps? Sure this was fine back in the days when capitals were rare and expensive, now that they can be deployed in mass they should be more balanced to keep other comps viable.
h3110kittyminer We Are Down Syndrome Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:14:15 - [1093] - Quote Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Odessima wrote: I don't see how these changes were actually thought out that well. The problem will only shift its focus from Carriers and Supers to another ship PVE wise, aside from not actually focusing on what seems to be the problem which seems to be certain Alliances can undock them with impunity for PVE, and as far as PVP it really doesn't make that much sense at all. Titans and supers used to be expensive and hard to actually obtain unless you were in an Alliance that could actually build them, and it originally took years to actually train for one. With injectors and build costs being so low, that is no longer the case. The changes to fighter sigs was a good call, and meant that their damage could be reduced effectively in both PVE and PVP. You can no longer AFK rat in either a super or carrier, you have to be present and active to use them. There are other ships that it is not the case, and with a lower cost ship and skill wise you can pretty much rat with impunity, while you are sitting watching something else and not actually paying much attention to EVE at all, except to change sites. These changes will not really have much affect at all on the PVE structure, because the ones getting the ticks wont actually be affected by it that much, but essentially makes them useless for PVP, unless as stated before they are used in the blob mentality, which isn't really going to change either. The amount of isk and training to use one should actually mean something, and the amount of kills for supers lately isn't showing an overpowered ship type at all. The changes will just make them an overpriced Ship Hauler. It seems to me that CCP brings in changes like this with ships with no actual plan of what these ships are supposed to achieve, or that actually don't investigate the changes they make as deeply as they should, and keep having to bandaid fix things without actually attacking the problem. As far as the PVE side the problem isn't with the ship , but the the PVE, so why nerf the Ship unless you are incapable of actually fixing the underlining issues, which seems to be the NPC's. While the ammount of kills for suoercarriers is perhaps nothing to complain about the daily number of losses sure is however. With new stats carriers will be more balanced for pvp around 12-1500 dps with really good tank, application and a jump drive. Sure fighters may be killed or jammed but no ship should be without a counter (all otver ships in the game may be renderd unable to deal damage through ewar aswell). Why shoulda cheap ship (after insurance) such as a carrier be able to single handedly wipe the floor with many small gang comps? Sure this was fine back in the days when capitals were rare and expensive, now that they can be deployed in mass they should be more balanced to keep other comps viable. your using the wrong small gang comp then a single carrier cant kill really any well thought out small gang doctrine.... now sure if you have a kitchen sink fleet thats not hard to kill at all
Zero Davahum 24	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:15:00 - [1094] - Quote https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player unsub and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.
Luc Chastot 714	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:18:13 - [1095] - Quote Incursions, bounties and all other faucets are the things you should be looking at to fix the money supply; reduce them and find other ways to reward players. EVE also needs more sinks and greater incentives to fight and lose stuff. It boggles me how uncreative this solution is. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.
redfers BloodDemons Here Be Dragons 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:39:25 - [1096] - Quote It is problem reduce NPC bounty only for carriers and supers? No thx just reduce DPS....
Desimere Mindstar Technology Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:40:04 - [1097] - Quote I wish sarcastic clapping was a thing
Lamajagarn McMyra No Vacancies No Vacancies. 22	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:43:35 - [1098] - Quote h3110kittyminer wrote: your using the wrong small gang comp then a single carrier cant kill really any well thought out small gang doctrine.... now sure if you have a kitchen sink fleet thats not hard to kill at all Alright when i say small gang i'm thinking 2-3 guys versus 1 carrier. What kind of compositions containing battleships and below would you consider capable of reliably holding and defeating a carrier in a resonable time? I find 1 carrier on you killboard and for this one you used multiple own capitals to take it down. Whats alot more comon on your bord in particular is killed fighters, where i'm assuming the carrier got away or you were unable to down it before overwhelming backup could arrive. Nice board in general though, nice to see people acctualy posting with their mains! :)
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6580	Posted - 2017.06.10 04:56:09 - [1099] - Quote Luc Chastot wrote: Incursions, bounties and all other faucets are the things you should be looking at to fix the money supply; reduce them and find other ways to reward players. EVE also needs more sinks and greater incentives to fight and lose stuff. It boggles me how uncreative this solution is. You shouldn't post on the forums, it removes all doubts about the low levels of your intelligence. NPC bounties are by far and away the single largest ISK faucet in the game. Last month bounty prizes lead to over 69 trillion ISK entering the economy. By comparison incursions lead to just under 10 trillion ISK. In other words, incursions produce 1/7th the amount of ISK that bounty prizes produce. In fact, bounty prizes are 1.6x larger than all other ISK faucets combined. You really come across as an entitled jackass with this post. "Don't nerf my ISK making, literally nerf everyone else's." "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
McSlooty McTradeyalt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 05:01:28 - [1100] - Quote Kiddos... it's simple. CCP want you to sub more afk vni/ishtar alts to make your dank ticks so CCP can orgasm about how "muh sub numbers" are trending upwards. More alts is what they want, they want you to quad box ishtars versus single box your Hel.

Caecilia Aquina Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 05:07:15 - [1101] - Quote Mossyblog Barnes wrote: Factor in now the risk(s) associated with super rating which is quite high, you've now got to then focus in around how larger corporation/alliances/coalitions protect their members within systems. In doing this they, in turn, localise their deployment strategies to ensure players centre around Keepstar(s) for responsive fleet strategies. Didn't they also said they want us to 'spread' by reducing anomaly spawn rate?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6580	Posted - 2017.06.10 05:17:37 - [1102] - Quote Here is a solution: Double the price of all skill books. Double the size of that ISK sink. Double borker's fees and double the size of that ISK sink. Double the price of blueprints. That should add over 27.5 Trillion in ISK sinks thus largely off setting the additional ISK entering the economy via ratting carriers ans supers. Of course, people won't buy as much stuff...so maybe only 22-25 trillion in additional ISK sinks. Sure, the people buying skill books aren't the cause of the problem, but screw 'em right? After all carrier ratting, it's serious business. And people paying broker's fees...well they kinda suck anyways right? And people buying blueprints, well they can just go to Hell. After all people ratting in carriers and supers...they are special (apparently special needs). "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ida Aurlien HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 94	Posted - 2017.06.10 05:25:15 - [1103] - Quote lol ccp removing everyone leaving.... people posting it on reddit also.. this 1 looks like a big exodus and they wanna control what people say.. sounds like Trump control the media
wouroo Aideron Robotics Federation Uprising 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 05:42:24 - [1104] - Quote it seems there has been a new faucet opened up, namely the nullbear tear faucet. there are plenty of other things to do in this game besides only flying caps and ratting. I too have reason to be upset since I am only about 3 weeks from gal carrier 5, but I am okay with the highest end PvP getting taken down a notch. as for the PvE, well I guess nullbears are gonna need to get a little more creative than farming rats in order to make crazy large amounts of isk. I would like to see the skillpoint gap between subs and caps be reduced a bit though. the fact that I have trained nothing but support skills for the last 9 months is not very content inducing. Now if you really want to take the nerfbat to that massive isk faucet of safely ratting someplace quiet for hours on end, make the rat have decent DPS and application, then make them use scrams and webs. once the threat of getting popped becomes real, more engaging fleet content should come around as people cant just solo/AFK everything. I think very few aspects of eve should be passive, and as an online MMO, neither should the highest end anything be solo. as an afterthought, you could also make payouts dynamic. I.E rat more, get less. maybe have it so rats drop a commodity item ( just found a non LP store use for tags) that can be sold to NPC buy orders. sell more and the price goes down. that should help with oversaturation of farming. could even make it so the anom rats have no bounty, just these tags, then other places like asteroid belts could remain unchanged. I do want to see other ships be made more useful still. AFs and faction battleships are not particularly useful. can an AF at least be a little bit faster? I feel like a potato flying one of those. balance pass on AFs please.
ISD Stall ISD STAR 35	Posted - 2017.06.10 05:49:24 - [1105] - Quote Quote: 7. Discussion of real life religion and politics is prohibited. Discussion of real life religion and politics is strictly prohibited on the EVE Online forums. Discussions of this nature often creates animosity between forum users due to real life political or military conflicts. CCP promotes the growth of a gaming community where equality is at the forefront. Nationalist, religious or political affiliations are not part of EVE Online, and should not be part of discussion on the EVE Online forums. Cleaned up one post according to this rule. ISD Stall Support Training and Resources (STAR) Community Communications Liaison (CCL) Interstellar Services Department.
Cricri Amatin El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 29	Posted - 2017.06.10 05:59:45 - [1106] - Quote I just unsubbed my 4 characters after having slept on it. This is why: EvE can easily be full time job. However I do not have time for that, so even in a unnerfed carrier I will not be space rich. But I did use time and money to have one carrier ratting char to provide a steafy incomme to make sure I had some ISK to waste on pvp ships. Bevuase it is pvp I want to do. I just dont want to pay real money for pixel spaceships. Now I am forced to use more time on pve which results in less time to spend on pvp. As eve allready is a quite time consuming game, my conclusion is to draw the line at this point. Im sorry about it as eve is an extraordinary fambolous game, but when I bothhave to inject more real money and more real time its just not defendable for me anymore.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 35	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:01:24 - [1107] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Luc Chastot wrote: Incursions, bounties and all other faucets are the things you should be looking at to fix the money supply; reduce them and find other ways to reward players. EVE also needs more sinks and greater incentives to fight and lose stuff. It boggles me how uncreative this solution is. You shouldn't post on the forums, it removes all doubts about the low levels of your intelligence. NPC bounties are by far and away the single largest ISK faucet in the game. Last month bounty prizes lead to over 69 trillion ISK entering the economy. By comparison incursions lead to just under 10 trillion ISK. In other words, incursions produce 1/7th the amount of ISK that bounty prizes produce. In fact, bounty prizes are 1.6x larger than all other ISK faucets combined. You really come across as an entitled jackass with this post. "Don't nerf my ISK making, literally nerf everyone else's." So you lower the amount of bounties on the npc's... this really isn't that damn hard. They have 5 economists working for them. CCP has some other ploy they are going to bring in later with some real life currency trade to make carrier ratting better, just watch. There is something else behind this. How do I know? Because if there was 150k people online versus 35k this issue would of came and gone, they are lying about something.
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 87	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:05:49 - [1108] - Quote well after seeing the monthly report and reading ccp quant reddit post it doesnt seem so much like a conspiracy anymore but probably still a pretty bad move for ccp
Skorpynekomimi 709	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:11:23 - [1109] - Quote All these nullbear tears about shutting off their free ISK. I love it. Economic PVP
Dark Reignz Four-Q 60	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:12:06 - [1110] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Fighters nerfs/ buffs really don't affect me currently but what I noticed about the graphs you refer too is that you are nerfing PVE in high sec specifically but also with release of BR Shipyards in Delve which is where you see the uptrend in isk made. Sorry but nerfing PVE everywhere and adding NPC speciallity stuff in certain systems is only going to highlight or even exaggerate isk generation. Stop nerfing sh!t pls Troll Mode - ON

Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1734	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:13:40 - [1111] - Quote JC Mieyli wrote: well after seeing the monthly report and reading ccp quant reddit post it doesnt seem so much like a conspiracy anymore but probably still a pretty bad move for ccp i cant say i mind though at least people wont drop carriers on me But if it's true that it's the 1% of the 1% according to CCP Quant, then how can this be a threat to the economy, which is CCP Larrikin's contention in the OP of this thread? Even taking the PCU from each day around 40,000. 1% of 1% is 4 people online at any moment in time. Something in the information CCP is feeding us is not right. Quant's post is the most likely one that is a generalization (even though he claimed it as a literal statement), in which case, CCP are pissing off way more than 1% of 1%. Screw CCP for f'ing up PVP. Find a different solution if there is a problem. Literally, if 4 people online threaten the EVE economy, then fighter DPS isn't the problem. There's far deeper problems then that. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Eileen Black Decompression Theory Digital Vendetta 11	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:16:52 - [1112] - Quote Just change anoms. Make each wave have a standard completion time at 1500 dps. If you kill stuff faster, you will have to wait until next one spawns. Say you have a wave timed at 5m. If you finish it in 5 or more new wave spawns immediately. If you take 3 minutes youd have to wait say 1 minute for next spawn. Problem fixed without killing pvp carrier uses
GothicNightmare Amazing Super Slackers Circle-Of-Two 13	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:28:14 - [1113] - Quote holy crap are you kidding me... 15% more likely NPC's will shoot fighters than current... they already get shot into oblivion and you want them to die even more... well done. I said this before about the economy thing and I'll say it again here and hope... HOPE... CCP will see this and think for more than half a second before dismissing it. The problem lately is not the isk making or the fighter damage... the problem is the current meta. Back when rogue drones still dropped minerals, ships were fairly inexpensive and lots of larger ship combat was plentiful (battleship / battlecruiser / hac / faction) But after the rogue drones were changed to bounties and no drop, all the power was put into the miners/industrialists, and prices went up, nearly doubling. So everyone went to cheaper ships... then came the T1 cruiser 'balance' which made the T1 cruiser a mere fraction of the cost of T2 and just as good, so the way of the T2 cruiser faded out quickly for cost effiency. Then interceptors got a nice buff... then came the tech 3 destroyer, even cheaper faster and more fun to play, more efficient than an assault frig for similar cost with lots more options. You see where this is going... changes pushed people away from spending isk. Now all you see is Machariel fleets, caracal fleets, t3d fleets, or ceptor fleets. There's such a wide array of ships in eve, but the changes to everything forced people away from the spending to go with inexpensive way to play. So all that isk people are making isn't going anywhere because they have no reason to spend it. You make 30 million isk roughly on a haven, it's 200mil for an Ishtar, you need at least 7 havens to buy and fit this ship... or 1 or 2 havens can buy you a few vexors and get just as much fun out of it more frequently for a fraction of the spend. So hard core ratters (I will use myself for instance) who need more isk, for like plexes or replacing fighters or command ships for larger fleets, need more isk, but in the mean time until it's time to fleet up, doing ratting between work and sleep, sleep and work... that isk just builds up, there's nothing to spend it on. Why would you spend hundreds of millions when someone with 10 milion ship can kill you just as easily. Honestly look at ALL the spending problems before just focusing on "oh too much isk must punish them for having nothing else to do". As for isk faucet... I hear incursions are just as good, or better, than null ratting... just sayin'
Aia Gret Machiavellian Empire Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:28:45 - [1114] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/HDB1OIi.jpg Unsubbed, even if it's only one account. To be clear, this is because CCP has displayed a blatant disregard for its community. They are not properly focusing on making a game 'fun'. Every time they take one step forward, then another two backwards in a different direction. There are far better ways to reduce the ISK income of Carriers and Supercarriers. Buff the HP on rats in Havens and Sanctums. Re-work the number of of rats spawning. Tweak the anom spawn rates (You know, like you're doing with asteroid belts?). But applying a blanket nerf to fighters? This also affects Citadels, which are your little darling that you seem to have forgotten in the corner. Again, I have unsubbed not because of the nerf. I have unsubbed because you, CCP, don't care about your paying customer base. You don't listen to them.
Nuhrp The Ascended Refugees 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:34:13 - [1115] - Quote Not sure there is a problem for you to solve here. You made a funny statement. Too big of an isk faucet for too few a people. Are you trying to get all players on an even keel? Are you some sort of a space 'wealth spreader'? You know this is a game right and that we pay. Those who paid the most and have accrued the most skills have the right to have bigger and more effective toys. STOP trying to be the wealth equalizer.
Nuhrp The Ascended Refugees 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:38:54 - [1116] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Great changes Let's remember who said this so this person never gets a vote again.
xOmGx Order of Order SOLAR FLEET 18	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:59:07 - [1117] - Quote Player driven economy they told Unscripted gameplay they told in reality Ecnomy rules are dictated by CCP and player intervention is limited by what CCP want (Mining nerfs, Invasion multiple nerfs, more mining nerfs, ratting nerfs, plexing nerfs) Unscripted gameplay face same thing if CCP do not like how players build game play of EvE CCP just change it to what they see without ANY feedback from the player base and without listening - they just do **** they see fit (Capital turrets nerfs, Supers HP nerfs, POS nerfs, SOV warfire stupid changes, and so on) Everytime players find something comfortable in EvE CCP comes and nerf / destroy / kill it
Shogun A Air The Initiative. 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 06:59:56 - [1118] - Quote CCP Quant says the system is being abused you 1% of the 1% for RMT purposes So you nerf into oblivion carriers and supercarriers for the entire playerbase??????????????? So to solve a problem with a small number of people you smash the rest of us????????????????? If CCP Quant was trying to help - he has made CCP devs look even more stupid - as a justification for the change he has plumbed the depths of idiocy FIX THE RMT ISSUE NOT SHAFT THE REST OF US!!!!!!!!!! Lazy lazy decision
Mazzalan Otoro Chemotherapy Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:08:07 - [1119] - Quote I've played eve for over 10 years and I just have to say CCP, WOW... .. .. ..... .. .um,huh Of course there's more isk coming in!!! You introduced skill extractor/injectors (people hit the ratting/mining fields, active accounts came back and people spent a little more RL money buying plex for injectors to train those long skills, CCP went \o/ << THE MISTAKE oh wait, What! {no more actually having to actually "train you skills" I just need enough isk} = more capital pilots ( Stupid easy to get into the largest ships in the game what used to take months now can be done in 5min with enough isk,) = "Everyone" now from the 1 day old toon to the vet's can fly what ever they want when ever they want! Don't put a band aid on something that isn't the issue...
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 34953	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:10:24 - [1120] - Quote Kassimila wrote: I'm sure no one from CCP will actually read this thread, but this is not how you solve this problem. Here is exactly how you solve the issue that is null sec isk printing issue. Step #1 . Remove bounties, replace with tags/blue loot/etc that is sold to NPCs for the same value. TADA! Now people actually have to stop and loot the sites. Or use MTUs which other players can come in and blow up/take! This will slow down peoples overall income generation as having to actually interact with the wrecks instead of being able to just churn and burn sites. This change will allow small roaming gangs to actually takes things away from people that just warp out and dock when you hit local. Probe down MTU = Profit. Step #2. Remove ESS's from the game. Instant 5% isk generation reduction. Step #3. Increase sales tax to generate more isk sink. Notice how these changes deal with the actual economy instead of nerfing a particular ship type, that is instantly defeated by a single falcon. PS. You could also greatly increase the chance of an NPC capital spawn if you're ratting in a capital. Increase the damage on the NPC capitals so they actually pose a threat. I always found it stupid that I could solo the NPC dread in a thanatos with T1 fighters.....and a passive shield tank. Yes, but CCP will not listen to someone with logical arguments. ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ

Duche Penken Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:11:59 - [1121] - Quote Why dont You just sell the game if you dont want to work on it instead of going down unpopular like this?
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:18:47 - [1122] - Quote CCP Do you realize that by making that simple cut you make caldari and amarr carrier/supers a pure hobby horse crap!
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:20:36 - [1123] - Quote Bron Ander Haltern wrote: CCP Do you realize that by making that simple cut you make caldari and amarr carrier/supers a pure hobby horse crap! They dont even play their own game man.... dont expect them to understand !
Radoslav Stfnov Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:30:14 - [1124] - Quote Well, we shall see what PVP gangs will catch and kill when no players want to fly those things anymore. Smart enough players will find ways to make money again - Incursions, 10/10 sites, farming "Enemy around", etc. Nerfing the income will directly nerf the pvp too. I used to make 200 mil per 1 hour. And then just spend all the money on pvp ships and go fight. Now... I will have to do same nett income for two hours (cause fighters will die more), and probably I will get bored or just my free time after work will end and I will turn off my PC. Second option is if I loose the carrier one day, just to stay with the basic account and fly with caracals. Anyway, CCP should work a way more about creating content in order to revive paying with real money. I mean more interesting sites - higher diversity , more pve activities, pvp tournaments (for newbies, with restrictions to ship classes for example), more intelligent AI in sites, better loot system (atm dreadnought drops total **** for regular pve player - it can drop various pvp blueprints, proper pvp modules and etc.). Weekly challenges - like destroy 10 enemy (pvp) ships and you will get 100 000 skill points free... etc, destroy 15 MTU, destroy mobile depots, there might be rewards for flying different classes of ships - like having all frigs from all pirate factions gives you "something"...
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 15	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:34:25 - [1125] - Quote Radoslav Stfnov wrote: Well, we shall see what PVP gangs will catch and kill when no players want to fly those things anymore. Smart enough players will find ways to make money again - Incursions, 10/10 sites, farming "Enemy around", etc. Nerfing the income will directly nerf the pvp too. I used to make 200 mil per 1 hour. And then just spend all the money on pvp ships and go fight. Now... I will have to do same nett income for two hours (cause fighters will die more), and probably I will get bored or just my free time after work will end and I will turn off my PC. Second option is if I loose the carrier one day, just to stay with the basic account and fly with caracals. Anyway, CCP should work a way more about creating content in order to revive paying with real money. I mean more interesting sites - higher diversity , more pve activities, pvp tournaments (for newbies, with restrictions to ship classes for example), more intelligent AI in sites, better loot system (atm dreadnought drops total **** for regular pve player - it can drop various pvp blueprints, proper pvp modules and etc.). Weekly challenges - like destroy 10 enemy (pvp) ships and you will get 100 000 skill points free... etc, destroy 15 MTU, destroy mobile depots, there might be rewards for flying different classes of ships - like having all frigs from all pirate factions gives you "something"... All of these idea's are as bad as the ones in the OP. I hope none of these comes to pass.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 31	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:36:46 - [1126] - Quote Well...after i had a bit of sleep and read the comments since i left im even more concerned that i have made a good decision unsubbing my accounts. When you leave your game without end content changes or any changes at all for a long time (changing star model is not a content) this happens. Noone risks more than is necessary. Fair ammount of isk income with fair ammount of isk risked. One "smart learning ai npc site" won't change this, a whole new basic change would such as WH's did when they were introduced. I would really want to see a report on subbing-unsubbing and even investors comments on how these "balance" changes affect player base.
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 35	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:36:49 - [1127] - Quote Skorpynekomimi wrote: All these nullbear tears about shutting off their free ISK. I love it. Free isk? yeah because a 22b isk super carrier minimum is free isk, shove it up your ass.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6580	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:39:44 - [1128] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Luc Chastot wrote: Incursions, bounties and all other faucets are the things you should be looking at to fix the money supply; reduce them and find other ways to reward players. EVE also needs more sinks and greater incentives to fight and lose stuff. It boggles me how uncreative this solution is. You shouldn't post on the forums, it removes all doubts about the low levels of your intelligence. NPC bounties are by far and away the single largest ISK faucet in the game. Last month bounty prizes lead to over 69 trillion ISK entering the economy. By comparison incursions lead to just under 10 trillion ISK. In other words, incursions produce 1/7th the amount of ISK that bounty prizes produce. In fact, bounty prizes are 1.6x larger than all other ISK faucets combined. You really come across as an entitled jackass with this post. "Don't nerf my ISK making, literally nerf everyone else's." So you lower the amount of bounties on the npc's... this really isn't that damn hard. They have 5 economists working for them. CCP has some other ploy they are going to bring in later with some real life currency trade to make carrier ratting better, just watch. There is something else behind this. How do I know? Because if there was 150k people online versus 35k this issue would of came and gone, they are lying about something. Right and then you nerf the income of those not in carriers or supers. Again, that is not balance that is unbalanced. It is shifting the game in favor of players with carriers and supers. And have you even bothered to look at the graph of the money supply? In terms of it's angle it is somewhere between 90 degrees and the 45 degree line...probably around 67 degrees...which is about how many trillion ISK were added to the economy. It was perhaps the single largest gain in ISK in game in the last 4 years. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sidrat Flush KarmaFleet 192	Posted - 2017.06.10 07:44:37 - [1129] - Quote If CCP wants to improve the balance of the game, perhaps there should be more than five pve sites that people run. Find out why people ignore the other goodness knows how many. What would get them to run that content? Who was the content designed for? Ship balancing is all well and good, but you also need to balance the content around it and not balance ships around less than a quarter of that PVE content that's bringing ISK to the wallet of players who are actually presenting themselves as targets for the roaming gangs. On the other topic, you CCP wanted people to use space with the introduction of the ADM index. People use their space but you don't like the income it has generated. That is not a ship balancing issue, that's a content issue. For years null sec was barren and people were questioning why hold it. Now we have a reason to hold it and grow rich and risk more in combat regardless of the reason for the conflict it makes the game vibrant and alive. In regards to Rorquals, I thought it was a great idea to have as many ships costing 10+B Isk in the same system seven days a week. That must have been a great thing for any hunting packs, knowing where there was generally some potentially juicy target and at least some are in a different fleet, poorly fitted or totally AFK and exempt from warp. Such is life. The trouble with balancing a game retroactively is that you're stopping people from planning too far ahead so they may start not thinking about their long term goals in this great but awful game that we so love to hate and read about even when not subscribing or logging in to. Instead create new PVE content for sub caps and caps, the PvP capabilities of each can then be measured. It really depends what CCP wants. If they want a PvP game let all the players own all the money and don't worry about it. If they want a PvE experience just go right ahead and turn off PvP and create more danger and escalation and surprises from the AI. It's your game and we're only along for the ride until we get bored or too frustrated to stay on. It's up to you. The players will remain loyal to the friends and community they've built up over the years. Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.
Peter Ska True Faces Hungary Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:00:14 - [1130] - Quote With this change, carriers won't be able to kill npc dreads, and income won't be significantly more than with a rattlesnake, which doesn't seems to be balanced to me counting skill requirements and ship prices. On the other hand, supers will remain OP, fighter ratting micromanagment remain a pain in the @#$, and increased fighter aggro instead drone aggro is discrimination. There wouldn't be this many capital pilots if there were no injectors. Most players don't even start skilling 2 years into caps. Now that they have the easy way, you can't blame them. God save our fighters, but I'll imagine there's a CCP dev in each one when they die to rats lol

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6580	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:02:11 - [1131] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: JC Mieyli wrote: well after seeing the monthly report and reading ccp quant reddit post it doesnt seem so much like a conspiracy anymore but probably still a pretty bad move for ccp i cant say i mind though at least people wont drop carriers on me But if it's true that it's the 1% of the 1% according to CCP Quant, then how can this be a threat to the economy, which is CCP Larrikin's contention in the OP of this thread? Even taking the PCU from each day around 40,000. 1% of 1% is 4 people online at any moment in time. Something in the information CCP is feeding us is not right. Quant's post is the most likely one that is a generalization (even though he claimed it as a literal statement), in which case, CCP are pissing off way more than 1% of 1%. Screw CCP for f'ing up PVP. Find a different solution if there is a problem. Literally, if 4 people online threaten the EVE economy, then fighter DPS isn't the problem. There's far deeper problems then that. Well, it isn't the number of players but how much ISK they are bringing into the economy. Now, lets consider that CCP Quant is right, that it is a very small number of players responsible for this large increase in the money supply. You are correct that the solution CCP is embracing is not good in that it is overly broad. As I noted with simply nerfing bounties, CCP is doing something that may be less broad, but may be overly broad. Some players may not be using their carriers/supers for ratting, but do like/want to use them in PvP and this change adversely effects them. A better solution would be one that is more targeted. One that gets at those who are pumping up the money supply. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1290	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:03:57 - [1132] - Quote how are you guys still this mad
Gabriel Karade Noir. Mercenary Coalition 325	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:04:07 - [1133] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. The root cause to your problem, is NPC's sitting in one place to be farmed to the extreme. Conceptually, why would any military organisation keep on feeding meat into the grinder once it becomes clear it's hopeless? (i.e. make NPC activity dynamic, so that they gradually 'give up' and leave an area, moving elsewhere) War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:06:03 - [1134] - Quote One more thing. Currently when ratting in carreir/super you have to pay much attention not to miss the cycle or decycle figters to avoid incoming dps. It's engaging its demanding but it's fun especially after latest rocky haven changes. Now you wanna increase by 15% NPC shooting rate and nerf the fighters dps. Let me remind you that the set od heavy fighters costs around 450 mil. While nerfing dps clearing the wave will take more time and a simple mistake will make them to volley out the fighters. Comparing this situation with afk VNI ratters when you can make same sites not even payin attenation to the monitor is insane. Why don't you fix first main known problem - fighters stop moving after NPC dies - i know you're aware of that problem but you haven't provided any solution so far
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 31	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:07:02 - [1135] - Quote Sidrat Flush wrote: at least some are in a different fleet, poorly fitted or totally AFK and exempt from warp. Such is life. The trouble with balancing a game retroactively is that you're stopping people from planning too far ahead so they may start not thinking about their long term goals in this great but awful game that we so love to hate and read about even when not subscribing or logging in to. I don't even plan ahead with this game until it is as predictable as a "normal" economy. The only prediction is that when you find a way to earn a fair ammount of isk it will soon be nerfed...so don't even think about it.
Pocket Avalhar Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:07:23 - [1136] - Quote so does this mean I am going to get reimbursed for all those skill injectors costing tons of isk that I had to work like a dog to save up for? Now there was literally no point in my skilling into this useless carrier. I could have stuck with my rattlesnake and not spent all that isk. So are we who used our time with a normal skill que or spent wads of isk to buy sill injectors going to get reimbursed? A carrier is of little use to me now, what am i actually meant to do with it? blow it up at the sun with a effigy of ccp dev inside it maybe but that's about it
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6580	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:11:53 - [1137] - Quote Mazzalan Otoro wrote: I've played eve for over 10 years and I just have to say CCP, WOW... .. .. ..... .. .um,huh Of course there's more isk coming in!!! You introduced skill extractor/injectors (people hit the ratting/mining fields, active accounts came back and people spent a little more RL money buying plex for injectors to train those long skills, CCP went \o/ << THE MISTAKE oh wait, What! {no more actually having to actually "train you skills" I just need enough isk} = more capital pilots ( Stupid easy to get into the largest ships in the game what used to take months now can be done in 5min with enough isk,) = "Everyone" now from the 1 day old toon to the vet's can fly what ever they want when ever they want! Don't put a band aid on something that isn't the issue... What is wow is your bad post. Skill injectors play, at best, a secondary role in ISK creation. The buying and selling of skill injectors does not create ISK. And the SP in the skill injectors has to come out of a character, as such there is an upper limit to how much SP are on the market at any one time. Or to put it differently to buy more SP you'd have to pay increasing amounts to ISK to induce players to part with their character's SP. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6580	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:14:19 - [1138] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: how are you guys still this mad Carrier ratting is apparently serious business. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mad Bosnian Stronghelm Corporation Solyaris Chtonium 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:26:36 - [1139] - Quote Atm I can earn 70 million with my Thanatos After patch I could earn around 55-60 million per tick. So, can this "help economy"? You took 30 million ISK less per hour and that's nothing, you need to nerf it even more. You moved 2 carriers from "almost useless" to "don't touch that" So, you guys didn't do anything, I will still buy PLEX and I won't give you a single dime
chraal isk company dk 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:36:34 - [1140] - Quote You have already stated this is curb the top 1% of players, however, a loss of income for the top 1% does not effect the top 1%. They have the buying power to offset these nerfs indefinitely with the isk already accumulated, through your own game design. (Need more toons farm more, need skills for more tons just buy more injectors, need more rorqual's to offset the nerf, easy as pie, ect, ect ad nauseam). AS DO THE PEOPLE THAT MAY POSSIBLY RMT, what business model destroyers game play for the majority of players based on the sphere of concern of RMT? Who ultimately pays with IRL money for the items required (extractors for ghost training? )for the top 1% to continue unabated or the possible RMT'rs? All you are doing is effectively destroying emergent game play for the 99% of the player base you currently have by effecting smaller groups, who never could and never will really reliably be able to compete with the top 1% or stop the possibility of RMT. This will by your own admission continue out of control due to a total lack of content and conflict drivers created by your own lack of thought in long term development. It will not stop the growth of fortress delve (Citadels are not intergrated into any from of conflict drivers), it will not stop the cold war. (What is the purpose of industry if there is nothing to stop the entire community, from stockpiling more and more resources and using those resources without something to drive conflict?) Do the economists talk to the devs about the impact of changes, when introducing things like the rorqual or citadels that are static in relation to what should or will drive conflict? You have nothing in your game desing that really drives conflict, this is the ultimate issue here, a total LACK of intergrated systems that drive conflict for all this farming that is currently happening. Untill you adress this fundemental issue with your game then this cycle of nerfs will continue unabated. What is the drive for me as a customer to buy nuPLEX and buy extractors to sell full well knowing than majority will probably go the top 1% or buying Plex to sell on open market (Why should i support ghost training?). You will never prevent the top 1% from being the top 1%, nor will you be able to stop their buying power. You should as a business be designing intergrated systems, with intergrated change that creates emergent game play. Not changing a facet of gameplay for majority of your customer base, based on what appears to be short sighted cash grabs, or ill thought out game design (what content do i spend isk on?)

Kryas University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:51:26 - [1141] - Quote Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Cismet wrote: Reddit subthread that Quant (rather foolishly) tried to wade into this discussion on has a great idea from a Goonswarm member who quite rightly points out that this hurts the single-account players more than most others. The ones that worked to get to carrier without multi-boxing the AFK Ishtar or VNI etc. and have a not-unreasonable expectation that a Capital ship should be better than a sub-capital ship in most circumstances. The idea they had was an excellent one and was simply to apply diminishing returns on ratting bounties. The exact level of returns would probably need some tweaking, but Carriers damage projection would be unhurt for the first few hours, then would taper off. Would impact every other bounty isk source in a consistent manner and result in a moderated and equalised lowering of the isk inflation and bounty problem across the board once diminishing returns dig in. I think we're missing context here, we have no idea where CCP pulled these figures from (for money generation or the figures for the nerf as we haven't been provided the thought processes behind them, they've just been delivered like a hammer), though Quant's 780 M per hour per account seems utterly ludicrous given the concentration required for one Super/Carrier, perhaps the data could be provided for this? I'd be amazed if even a single Super/Carrier could get more than about 500 M per hour, but then I've seen stranger things I suppose. Either way Jibrish's suggestion is an excellent one and provides a fairer application that would apply to the other problem areas of bounty generation, rather than smashing the carrier/super into obsolescence. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/dioy4lk/ My situation is very close to his and while his suggestion isn't good either(there is NO good option for casual players) it is a FAR better compromise than the nonsense proposed by CCP. Explain to me why the idea is bad? It's actually better for casual players depending on how it's implemented: You come online and rat for 2 hours > Bounty payout = 100% for those 2 hours You rat for a further 2 hours > Bounty payout is 75% for those 2 hours. You rat for indefined time thereafter > Bounty payout is 50% for remaining time until next DT which resets the cycle. If you can't get time, then do it on ISK earned from bounty paid out. First 300 million is 100%, then drop to 75% for second 300 million, then drop to 50% thereafter. In what world does that harm a casual player? Most casual players will only play for a couple of hours in any given day so where does this idea that it's terrible for casual players come from? The change as proposed by CCP just screws everyone, absolutely everyone, who got into carrier as the end-game of ratting. As has been pointed out, you're now just better off ratting in a sniper fit Rattle. You'll do as much damage and be just as safe. That's a joke for the cost in SP and ISK for the skills and the ship/fit. It doesn't matter which way you want to look at it a Cap should always be better than a subcap in the hands of equally skilled pilots. Carriers aren't even the problem drone boats are as you have to engage with fighters, you can't just go AFK and let them clear entire sites for you.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 643	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:57:00 - [1142] - Quote I'm a bit confused on this, because a group of players, used the tools provided by CCP and in fact a new system of sov that drives this amount of isk making and now what, punish the players for playing as you made them play? k k we get the way too much isk being made,, needs to be nerfed so the whole market doesn't shite itself bit. but this heavy handed nerf an entire line of ships and citadels will hurt way more than just ratting income. i liked my carrier, it wasn't over powered, it needed to be flown right and needed fleet support in pvp. you promised you'd make them better, give a more meaningful role to this class of ship. I'm not seeing this new role at all. they can't triage, they can't deal with ecm, they will soon have crap DPS, you can't assign fighters or drones. what role exactly do you see carriers and supers in CCP? it appears there is no road map, no plan, just hey,, let's try this and if it's too much we'll nerf the hell out of it. doesn't make sense, when decreasing the income from bounties on rats would only effect the isk income and not the abilities of the ships that use fighters in every area of the game. you removed the drone alloys to save industry back in 2011, compare that to this, would be like removing 30% of battleship damage over all to stop people farming the drones. nope you removed the problem instead of punishing every single player who flew the ship type used to earn the isk. nerf the bounties, leave the fighters alone.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 95	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:58:39 - [1143] - Quote Carrier ratting is something people with only a single active char excel at. It was the one way of people without armies of toons to at least somewhat compensate for it by earning as much as 1,5-2 chars with one highly active one, compared to the ppl mining with 13 chars. I think CCP failed to look at what groups use it here. It was in a good place. A good option for single-boxers, worthless for multiboxers. Im not even considering the skill-time and price-tag. Again: I'm a multiboxer and with perfect carrier skills, but carrier-ratting isnt even lucrative for me.
Kryas University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 08:58:47 - [1144] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Ralph Shepard wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions. Which means this is just an excuse from you. Incursion payouts are a fraction of pirate bounties. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png But please keep up the histrionics. Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties?
Paul Brinkhoff ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 22	Posted - 2017.06.10 09:08:41 - [1145] - Quote I was actually typing something meaningfull and well written here but then I realized rambeling about citadels, multiboxing, destroying content for the sake of advertising to a shrinking playerbase with new unbalaced and rushed superlatives every month seems to be the go to strategy for eve. There are two problems that cause the rage atm: 1) As someone allready pointed out on reddit CCP managed to kill conflict drives within the game and it is now better content for us as players to bash CCP than bashing Keepstars. 2) CCP has proven to be out of touch with their own product. Esp. since CCP officials argue with something like 240m ticks used for RMT. Not even knowing how much isk you can actually make in a super but using isk making in supers as a reason for a nerf is just pathetic on a level that I cant put into words without sounding to insulting. Also I would like to point out that ratting in capitals or supercapitals is not a way of making isk that scales very well. You have to commit to that task and actively play the game to make your isk. You can not just multibox as much supers as your PC can handle like you can do with more passive forms of ratting ships, or passive income in general. So if I would want to RMT at the current state of the game I would not want to have to use a super. Regular ratting on a large scale would make more isk and require less input. Sure I coul use 1 (one) super ontop of that but that wont be the main way of making isk. Nerfing the pvp ability due to pve is absolute nonsense. Esp. since CCP is bringing more and more stronger capitals, titans and supercapitals to the game with via PIRATE FACTION ships. Sorry that I cant really follow that argument. CCP even puts some effort into makeing regular pirate faction capitals cheaper so that those will potentionally being used in further engagements while nerfing caps in general due to said reasons. ** like that is what comes up when you google bigot. Even more so since the real money makers that do scale and require less effort to make isk are not touched. Every game has the porblem that its resources are, compared to the real world, unlimited. But you usually work arround that by making the players waste those resources in conflict. So dear CCP if you are afraid of too much isk in the game dont just slap people in the face by doing your best to reduce destruction but make destruction an actual thing again. Take away our wealth by makeing us lose our assets again. Make us want to fight again, that simple. Allowing big enteties to trutle up and create safe krabbing space is not really what made eve great in the past. Also I would like to state you can not just grab the cash and waste a franchise in the process like EA likes to do and work arround by either having enough other games to make profit of or bringing up a new game next year anyways. I dont think that this tactic wont work very well regarding your portfolio. Dont treat us like by straight up lying into our faces like CCP_Quant did on reddit. Due to an allready shrinking player base this is not a very smart thing to do to be honest. You have, dear CCP, something like a CSM, you actually spend money at those dudes completly ignoring them when it comes to changing the game but on the other hand pretending to work with the CSM for advertising the uniqueness of your game when it suits you wont end very well in the longrun either. Get your ** together.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 95	Posted - 2017.06.10 09:08:54 - [1146] - Quote This only nerfs nullsec longtime-player single-boxers exclusively. But that's NOT the group of ppl you want to nerf. They already have a hard time in eve because they restrict themselves to earning isk with only one character.^ I AM a multiboxer myself who doesnt fly carriers. But I want the single-boxers to stay and keep playing eve.
Ti'El Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 09:30:49 - [1147] - Quote Why don't you remove carriers at all? It's clear that you don't want anyone using them.
Aldeskwatso Grain Fields Inc. The Big Dirty 52	Posted - 2017.06.10 09:39:12 - [1148] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: Aldeskwatso wrote: Any activity that generates excessive amounts of ISK compared to its exposure to risk should be attempted to be rebalanced. So if carriers/supercarriers can be used to make it way to easy to the point it is throwing off a healthy balance between risk vs reward etc. they should be rebalanced somehow to counter this kind of abuse. I understand why some get salty if their cashcows get hurt by this but there is a bigger picture here. It's challenge. In my oppinion its still way to easy to make things easy for yourself to the point ISK is never an obstacle. But it also takes away a lot of challenge. And for me nothing kills a game more then lack of challenge. As a result I avoid activities that abuse an inbalance to generate my ISK and this forces me to look at other means to support myself. And that has changed my outlook on the game a lot in the best way possible. If I didn't do this I would've quit the game because of it. So I for one am happy CCP does something about these things. And I'm sure those that aren't happy about it now will adapt and gravitate towards the next best thing. As for PvP use. It will likely change but same there as well. If the changes make them obsolete all together I'm sure it will get fixed. And should be fixed. But give people time to come up with creative adaptations. Abuse? I guess legitimately using a carrier/super to rat in is abuse but running incursions for 23 hours a day in a blinged ship and pod in the safety of high sec with ZERO risk is not abuse... It might be legitimate but its being used on a scale never intended and causing problems. Thus the need to rebalance. Nobody is at fault here even tho they feel they are being punished for it. And for the record IMO incursions in highsec tend to pay out to much as well. Those can be toned down a little to. But that isn't the subject here. So not going into that further. I'd put some more faith into the resourcefullness of the average eve player to figure out new methods of maximizing ISK p/h. If that's their measure of success. To me its more about how I earn my ISK instead of how much. The biggest obstacle you'll encounter doing anything is yourself.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4006	Posted - 2017.06.10 09:40:26 - [1149] - Quote Kryas wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties? No they don't, and before you start talking about mission bounties as of a few months ago 92% of all bounties came from Null. Oh and don't forget that over 50% of the commodities isk faucet was also coming from Null from Overseer effects. So that 30 trillion or so spike in the last 6 months or so is almost certainly entirely carrier ratting.
Somi Zulfi Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 14	Posted - 2017.06.10 09:41:52 - [1150] - Quote Fix the cancer-sov, so isk can be spent on war. You were told this was cancer by CSM and many of the FCs back then, you chose to ignore it. Get your priorities straight. Citadels are the cancer currently, Moons are content generators, which you are going to go ahead and mess up too. Nobody cares about Ishtar or Vexor new models and skins, stop wasting dev time on things that arent the pain, at least right now. Will there be penalties for people who exploited ghost training? Instead, rest of the eve got penalised and skill queues were stopped. Simply outrageous. There is only one way to explain this poor prioritization of dev time, (i) you guys want to cash out or (ii) whoever is running the show has total disconnect from the game (iii) Utter incompetence. Choose any one. -- There is indeed a problem of isk inflation due to increased isk generation and its obviously not healthy due to ratting and mining, but there were better ways to nerf the carrier-and-above-level instead of nerfing the PVP aspect of it. You just chose the way where you had to modify the least amount of lines in your code so people can back to integrating new Vexor model

Kamus Rekium Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:08:05 - [1151] - Quote Just 3 words: F@#CK YOU CCP!
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 42	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:14:40 - [1152] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Kryas wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties? No they don't, and before you start talking about mission bounties as of a few months ago 92% of all bounties came from Null. Oh and don't forget that over 50% of the commodities isk faucet was also coming from Null from Overseer effects. So that 30 trillion or so spike in the last 6 months or so is almost certainly entirely carrier ratting. I am sure it has nothing to do with alliances recruiting Alpha chars and instructing them to get into VNIs and AFK rat. Those Alphas end up making money by ratting all day, having a begginer's patience to endure an activity that is still new to them for hours on end...and later move into Ishtars because its the same mechanic they know, but with better profits. Only two days ago I was speaking to one such character who was expressing his regret for picking Amarr instead of Gallente...because he "could not be lazy with drones" as his fellow mates with which he joined the game. Not to be missunderstood: Carrier ratting reward has increased with capital changes (from 35 to 50 mil on average), but at the cost of decreased survivability and a complete inability to multibox or be AFK while doing it. Thus, all alts that were AFK ratting in carriers became useless or passed into Ishtars while carrier mains got rewarded for their dedication to being active and high-APM new mechanics of carrier ratting. Don't even get me started on the fact that PVP nerfing due to PVE reason is another rage-inducing display of stupidity to begin with. Instead of coming up with constructive ways to deal with the issues, devs have been dropping heavy handed nerfs on their go-to scapegoats ever since those initial changes. People have finally had enough and that's the reason this post is raking in hundreds and hundreds of angry replies to CCP's reasoning.
Ti'El Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:18:16 - [1153] - Quote Unless, CCP's making fighters invulnerable... LOL
Mashie Saldana Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 1645	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:19:43 - [1154] - Quote **** dude, I just realised, I have been acknowledged by CCP themself that I am the top 1% of the 1%. That's it, I have really won EVE this time I can unsub and move on, thanks CCP. How to win EVE
Von Jovhian Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:22:30 - [1155] - Quote Wow. Genius. Pure genius... Instead of reducing bounty isks or raising rat hps just nerf carrier and supercarrier dps. CCP you are in a miserable state. Just plain miserable...
Neepthys Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:24:18 - [1156] - Quote Yes, well this kind of the main reason behind the long grind for a carrier / super. If players would want to make less isk, they would have opted for a VNI or an Ishatar or a BS.
Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 12	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:26:38 - [1157] - Quote The 1% of the 1% is probably from All the characters ever created in eve VS Supers ratting in the last 1 day. Was there an official reply to this shitstorm yet? Do they consider dropping this patch and rethink their way of approach? Or the case is they dont give a ** what we think? Id like a CCP member to start streaming in the next 2 day with a Super carrier ratting with it for at least 3-4 hours straight. That would probably teach them how easy and fun it is to do it. All you have to do is compare how much time energy isk you spend to get in different ships and how much they earn. It really is not hard to see that getting in a Super and spend time ratting with it should earn you what you get now. The income you get from this activity is pretty linear with the risk/effort you put in them but correct me if not. Nerfing only the top method is shiiting on thoose who spend the most getting there. And not only nerfing its PVE effectiveness but overall shitting on carriers again and again makes me wonder if we should use theese ships at all or just put em in the same group where AFs are or other unused ships which got nerfed to death. Yet they fail to see that Citadels killed content. Theres not even station games anymore. And you can a citadel out for 1b or even less theese days which makes SOV the most **** aspect of the game. Maybe think about the 3 hrs/week timer on them for starter. If you want ppl to leave the game just remove all 0.0 combat sites entirely. Im pretty sure its faster that way then nerfing ships 1by1 and removing pvp content from the game.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 83	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:33:22 - [1158] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Kryas wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties? No they don't, and before you start talking about mission bounties as of a few months ago 92% of all bounties came from Null. Oh and don't forget that over 50% of the commodities isk faucet was also coming from Null from Overseer effects. So that 30 trillion or so spike in the last 6 months or so is almost certainly entirely carrier ratting. I should really post on my main, never intended to post on him, went from the wrong browser. This doesn't change that 1% of 1% (in any given day 30 people?!?!) is somehow responsible for 90% of the amount? Is it feck. The problem is and has always been Ishtar/VNI because they are so efficient at ratting almost constantly, there's very little downtime between sites as they warp fast and you can just sit there all day with a beer and/or book and just rat. The thing is, CCP want us to believe that the problem is carriers/supers but you're earning realistically 4 times the amount of an ishtar (My ishtar can happily pull 20-25 million ticks and I rat while paying attention, I just fit lazily) But the implication being that there's only 4 times the number of ishtar's/vni's to carriers? I call nonsense. I would be surprised if the number of Ishtar/VNI's to Carriers was less than a 100-factor differential. Now assuming there is 100 time the number of VNI's/Ishtars to Carriers/Supers and assuming a 3 times amount on average (Carriers pull in around double and supers seem to get around 4x so averaging at 3 times across the board is not an unreasonable assumption), Ishtar's/VNI's are responsible for 33 times the amount (100 times the number of them/3 as they earn 1/3 of the amount on average). Now, CCP has refused to engage with the community and hasn't provided the Raw data on which they have based these changes. They also haven't provided any reasoning behind why the specific numbers were chosen for the nerf and have in fact tried to deliberately present overinflated figures and the highest possible number they've seen in the dataset, completely out of context to try and support a badly thought-out, knee-jerk response. There is nothing wrong with ratting in a carrier, if the ISK faucet needs nerfing then do it with diminishing returns on bounties as has previously been mentioned. It'll hurt the AFK ratters more and provide the required dampening of the ISK creation that CCP are worried about.
Jone Sad The Scope Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:33:30 - [1159] - Quote Ok CCP. Less accounts, means less money. You wanted.
Sir Krikx 3d Armored Cavalry Corp Black Hole Horizon 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:34:34 - [1160] - Quote RIP all of my accounts. This just negated any reason that I still play this failing game. Implement these changes and I will unsubscribe my accounts. I am sure CCP doesn't need my money. Not whining, just a statement of fact.

iFars Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation 24	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:38:01 - [1161] - Quote T3 The cruiser with all modules costs 340, after your announcement of its "improvement", it has significantly fallen in price. The price of Tengu fell from 125 to 111. If you believe only graphics (like you do) - it turns out that a big danger for EVE - is the developers. They all do so badly that only announcements of their actions harm more than inflation.
Rolling Gigant Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:41:06 - [1162] - Quote Ok this means EVE is not game for me. I dont have time to spend on things that you will nerf on end. Was thinking to skill up for carrier but after this i can only unsubscribe.
Aeryn Atropos State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:42:22 - [1163] - Quote The problem is not the production, the problem is the lack of destruction.
Captain Wreck Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:42:49 - [1164] - Quote Keep up the good work, CCP. And by good work, I mean alienating your player base and then wonder wtf is going on. I'm holding off on re-subbing my 3 accounts. If the patch goes through on tuesday, I'm done. Nice timing, too. You fail to address an economy breaking issue for 6 months and then this. Maybe soon you'll get what you want : f2p p2w game. Enjoy your earnings, doubt they'll last long if you keep this going.
Dan Sever XAOS RELOADED Legion of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:46:16 - [1165] - Quote Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains.
Captain Wreck Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:52:14 - [1166] - Quote Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. I find it funny that fielding a ship that's worth at least 25b when fitted (not even counting fighters) should not be able to make substantially more than a 100m ship. Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities.
Perdita Animus Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:52:44 - [1167] - Quote 3 accounts about to be unsubscribed.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 361	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:55:17 - [1168] - Quote Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Have you actually tried carrier/super ratting or are you just trying to be edgy? Unlike drone boats which scale quite well (especially in the north west with amazingly convenient rats) each player can fly a single super or carrier to rat in. At least the nerf will not affect PvP as fighters are already worthless in TiDi.
Dan Sever XAOS RELOADED Legion of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:56:55 - [1169] - Quote Captain Wreck wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. I find it funny that fielding a ship that's worth at least 25b when fitted (not even counting fighters) should not be able to make substantially more than a 100m ship. Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities. This: "Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities." is the point also agree on. However when I see all these posts from super pilots proposing to decrease overall bounties (for all ships) or increase rats EHP, it makes me lose last sympathy for their lose. At the end of the day the problem is the HUGE number of super ratters. Although, yes, its a CCPs fault with their skill injectors etc.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 361	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:57:19 - [1170] - Quote Captain Wreck wrote: I find it funny that fielding a ship that's worth at least 25b when fitted (not even counting fighters) should not be able to make substantially more than a 100m ship. Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities. There are no PvP capabilities, damn things just don't work in TiDi. Last time around the only way to fire a new volley (after the initial one) was to recall the fighters and then relaunch them, get one off then repeat. At least the MWD is stuck so they move back and forth reasonably fast.

Marcus Tedric Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 136	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:57:52 - [1171] - Quote CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. ............. Well, I'd really wish that had been quoted here instead of the sperg medium..... But some of us do understand why. Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Lord Vyper Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 19	Posted - 2017.06.10 10:58:19 - [1172] - Quote 30% at not point should you ever need to nerf something by this much. You either havent been watching the damage output or this is a gut instinct call instead of stats. Tuning should be done in not more than 10% intervals. You guys keep swinging the balance of all your content out of whack. Then everyone scrambles to the next best means and you repeat it again. Please stop announcing changes without actually having a discussion with the player base. Not CSM the actual player base. The first change to address the PVE issues should not have even included touching the ship. Every ship in the game has access to this same content. The problem is the faucet aka the Bounties and EHP of he rats themselves. Things you can do without affecting the PVP capabilities of these shipts - A) Reduce rat sig radius - B) Increase resistance and EHP - C) Reduce how often these anomalies spawn aka cool down maybe 30 - 60 mins after a full set has been cleared. This would also encourage people to spread out and own more space or occupy it. More dangerous more rewarding to have a system to yourself - D) Reduce the total bounty of each complex and or Individual NPCs - E) Increase the risk of these sites by changing the profile of the Rats ie' damage capabilities. - F) Reduce overall fighter health in combination w/ increasing their aggro. This would also have a small positive effect on the fighter market -G) Add some variety of smaller complexes that have decent rewards but dont allow Carriers/ Supers into them and put them on the spawn cycle as Haven's ETC. Similar to how you have Burner Missions -H) Add webbing towers that prioritize drones/ and fighters I don't rat in a super but this just feels like the wrong tool for the job. Please reconsider these changes. PVP capabilities should absolutely not be limited due to poor planning on your part to design PVE with the future in mind.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 19	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:00:50 - [1173] - Quote Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Is some one from xXDeath talking about isk mountains? The irony. When I look through threads like these I can pick out some interesting things. There is always the knee jerk reaction to massive changes, that is expected. However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest. There is also always that handful of players who laugh and shout 'Haha @ x group of people' because they dislike the people who are upset, or the game mechanic itself. Often because it is because it is not something that they enjoy doing. Then you will find the people who support the change, nerf, rebalance. Usually they raise some good points but focus on one small part of things and will usually refuse to engage in discussion with the many valid points that are raised by others. It is really quite disheartening to see how the CCP view their playerbase. While talking about needing to work on the isk supply and inflation (great) one of the recent actions they took was to introduce their new version of plex, broken in game of course, which they even admitted at the time would cause a rise in prices. Then you read comments from people at the heart of CCP who at best cherry pick facts and figures to support things, while not engaging in an discussion about the heart of the problem and at worst imply that the playerbase using carrier and supers to rat in nullsec are often multiboxing 17 accounts or RMTing. Very disappointing. CCP stop introduing mechanics into the game which you nerf bat into oblivion and you won't need to deal with the dissatisfaction of your players. You make the game. You introduce the mechanics.
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 11	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:01:40 - [1174] - Quote when you are going to get 30m ticks most likely post patch and you loose 2-3 fighters per site your going to me making a measly 20m at that point you might as well be in a ishtar imo
Dan Sever XAOS RELOADED Legion of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:03:54 - [1175] - Quote Sassura wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest. Ofc, casual ratters like myself will only benefit from this nerf. Less isk = lower prices = higher yield for us. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 100	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:07:10 - [1176] - Quote CCP Quant wrote: What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. ............. Lol. The top 1% would never bother to rat in a single carrier. That's something poor long-time-players do. The top 1% doesnt need ratting/mining and if they do they multibox 10 rorquals.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 19	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:08:46 - [1177] - Quote Dan Sever wrote: Sassura wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest. Ofc, casual ratters like myself will only benefit from this nerf. Less isk = lower prices = higher yield for us. Correct me if I'm wrong. You're wrong.
Dan Sever XAOS RELOADED Legion of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:10:58 - [1178] - Quote Sassura wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Sassura wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest. Ofc, casual ratters like myself will only benefit from this nerf. Less isk = lower prices = higher yield for us. Correct me if I'm wrong. You're wrong. Mind to elaborate?
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 11	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:11:42 - [1179] - Quote prices will still hold due to plex/injector prices
Von Jovhian Aliastra Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:13:12 - [1180] - Quote I have 3 active accounts and I pay with real money for all my subscriptions to support your miserable company. Ratting is what I do to buy pvp ships and pvp. I guarantee you if you online this patch I will unsubscribe all my accounts.

Somi Zulfi Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 21	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:19:27 - [1181] - Quote We dont want your winter update, there are higher priorities: 1. Cancer-Sov 2. Cancer-Citadels Fix these first, then work on moon refineries or whatever **** you want to mess up next. Fix and prioritize these.
Axon Magnus Risen from Ashes inPanic 11	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:19:29 - [1182] - Quote people with these nerfs which have been implemented head strong like this , it very much seems like CCP is killing their game intentionally just so they dont get a fall out when they finally pull the plug or sell the eve online IP off ! to me my opinions stands that this is just a bunch of processes one would take ether to introduce a new game or get ride of the game i might be wrong here but thats what it seems like to me. On the other hand i have one account was just about to make a new one once i had got my self into a nid so that seem pointless now. seems better to just rate in a marauder am sure many would disagrees with that but its the best fastest i have access to now , and yes he is wrong this will kill it for little guys like me who just recently got into null and wanted to do less pve and more pvp i have even disabled my account in solidarity with you my people , that was really my next goal after the marauder i had a few days left to fly it oh well , star citizen seems about perfect at this time :) , might as well use the time i would have used on eve to start working on mods for it . why is ccp committing suicide ?
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 19	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:20:45 - [1183] - Quote The top 1% of the top 1% will remain as rich, if not richer than they already are. Their wealth was long established before rorquals and the new fighter mechanics were introduced. Of course fixing inflation will benefit those who are not considered to be super rich. (Sorry for the pun) However the most recent major game mechanics have killed off all the content drivers, so people are just building up their wealth in preparation. Eve players are a resourceful bunch, the changes will come. Most who are upset will still be playing, some will not. Others will become more casual while they look for a more rewarding game to play because CCP is alienating their player base with heavy handed nerfs and not introducing balanced game mechanics. Isk will still continue to be generated by the best method while looking at risk/reward. Even if the isk generation is slowed just a little, without the content generators which cause us to replace lot of expensive things I'm afraid that the average player won't see much benefit. Many carrier and super pilots will just rat a little longer, use other ships and more accounts. I could go on but I am simply repeating thing which have been said over and over in this thread, and if someone doesn't understand what I am saying now, or what has been said on most pages of this thread for the last 50 odd pages, nothing I say now will change it.
Kern Walzky Corporation Danmark Tactical Narcotics Team 11	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:26:29 - [1184] - Quote i dont understand why CCP always use the nerf aproach.... if there is issues with capital ratting in sites designed for sub-caps, then fix that by preventing caps to enter and create sites for capitals only and make sure isk income is only slighly higher then subcap sites!? doing nerfs to rorqual is ok if you also made sure that lets say the industry mode is shorter = less risk or reduce the ammount of Elite Drone AI required to build them also... that way the risk/reward follow.... Dont Nerf, change the game instead to bring joy and exitement.... Nerfing is just not always the way.
Intaglicia Crow The Warp Core Stabilizers Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:29:27 - [1185] - Quote This is my first forum post ever. So read it CCP. You broke your own game by introducing Skill Injectors... I had NO issue paying for the game while training to a level (to fly a carrier) to plex an account one day. You were looking for a quick cash input instead of a long term steady investment.. well, at least from my point of few And now you upset the majority all because of your own mistakes.
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 12	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:29:33 - [1186] - Quote Sassura wrote: The top 1% of the top 1% will remain as rich, if not richer than they already are. Their wealth was long established before rorquals and the new fighter mechanics were introduced. Of course fixing inflation will benefit those who are not considered to be super rich. (Sorry for the pun) However the most recent major game mechanics have killed off all the content drivers, so people are just building up their wealth in preparation. Eve players are a resourceful bunch, the changes will come. Most who are upset will still be playing, some will not. Others will become more casual while they look for a more rewarding game to play because CCP is alienating their player base with heavy handed nerfs and not introducing balanced game mechanics. Isk will still continue to be generated by the best method while looking at risk/reward. Even if the isk generation is slowed just a little, without the content generators which cause us to replace lot of expensive things I'm afraid that the average player won't see much benefit. Many carrier and super pilots will just rat a little longer, use other ships and more accounts. I could go on but I am simply repeating thing which have been said over and over in this thread, and if someone doesn't understand what I am saying now, or what has been said on most pages of this thread for the last 50 odd pages, nothing I say now will change it. you know at this point though...its not so much even about the nerf anymore its more of taking a stand as a group as players showing just how much we are unhappy with the direction the game is taking. ccp has ignored the subtle approach many of us have taken over the years and it would seem the only way to make a impact on the company's decisions is to affect the share holders. you flat out dont just bite the hand that feeds you
Rook Moessus Red Skull Federation Digital Vendetta 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:34:48 - [1187] - Quote You dont think it is the ratting Titans doing this? Why the Carriers?
Bridge to Me Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:48:23 - [1188] - Quote Hey CCP. First and foremost, I play this game to PVP. I don't have anywhere near as much spare time as I used to be able to dedicate to the game, because real life has been kicking my ass lately, so at best I might get to play for say 10-15 hours a week to spend gaming. Now, I'm a member of a small nullsec sovholding alliance (~500 "members", maybe 100ish real people across multiple timezones). We don't have SRP (it's simply not big enough for that kind of thing) and doctrines tend to be fairly fluid as we respond to different threats. As with any alliance, we have various frig, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser and battleship fleets. Along with entosis, counter entosis fleets, etc. Due to the number of members that may or many not be available at any one time, people also have to take into account there may just be 8 people in fleet, there may be more when coming up with useable doctrines. Faction ships have often been used, because well, they tend to put out more damage and be more useable in smaller groups. Since your announcement on the changes to faction battleship BPC drops, the prices of faction battleships have skyrocketed. So now we won't be running a faction BS comp anymore and have to find something else viable to use. So, new ship comp to buy? Okay. Well, you have to make some money somehow, time to go grind the (for arguments sake) 300m for a ship or two for this new comp. Now I hate ratting, but okay I'm going to have to go out and do that to pay for some new ships. The only worse thing than ratting? Doing it with no engagement in the game. So no, I'm not going to go afk rat in a VNI/Ishtar. Okay, I'll go sit in a carrier that involves actually playing the game and having to pay complete attention to it at all times, because now thanks to your last changes if you're not paying attention for more than 2 seconds you can have a fighter alpha'd off field. If I'm lucky, I might make 30m ticks off running havens (before corp tax comes in to play, that's 10%, so I'm actually making 27m every 20 minutes). At the moment, that means I need (after tax) 12 ticks to make that 300m. That's 240 minutes of ratting, or 4 hours. That means I now have just 6-11 hours left a week to spend playing games after ratting. Now, you're saying you want to reduce the damage of light attack fighters by 20%. For arguments sake, let's say that simply means I make 20% less each tick. I've now got a 24m tick before tax, 21.6m tick after tax. It's now taking me 14 ticks to make that same 300m. That's 280 minutes, or 4 hours and 40 minutes of ratting. Now leaving me between 5h 20m-10h 20m left to play each week instead. This isn't even taking into account that you might have to look away from the screen for a couple of seconds during this time and end up having to replace fighters, which means it'll take even longer to make that ISK you needed. And that's before these changes. After fighters get shot at "15% more" I hate to think what that'll do to how many die each time you rat. So potentially, I end up having to spend almost as much time ratting which I hate, as I do actually being able to do something I enjoy in the game (PVP). This isn't even taking into account that sometimes those ships will end up dying, and you'll have to repeat the process over again to replace it. At this point it gets seriously tempting to say you know what? Time to ask CCP to refund the remainder of my subscriptions. I'm just going to spend my gaming time playing PUBG instead.
Abadayos Yulai RnD 20	Posted - 2017.06.10 11:49:40 - [1189] - Quote So nerfing fighters due to PvE impacting PvP? Stupid idea, but the solution is already IN the game....wormholes Now let me lay this out, it's not insane trust me. A wormhole has different modifiers on your ship when you enter, getting more sever (or beneficial) the higher the class the wormhole is (1-6). Why not have that sort of anomaly effect on things like Sanctums and Havens? Drop fighter and fighter-bomber damage by 20% (or whatever effect) when in these deadspace pockets (or all deadspace pockets...who cares, it's just an idea). This way Carriers and Supers PvE ISK generating activities are nerfed to whatever you guys want (and can be adjusted as deemed appropriate) but the PvP damage is unchanged or can be changed independently of PvE. This way people won't get annoyed when you destroy their PvP gate camping carriers or super carrier blob due to some PvE transgression that really was the Developers fault in the first place and to punish the player for a Developer screw up...will usually result in this sort of outrage. just a thought
Atrinos Ordo Teeutonicus Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:01:44 - [1190] - Quote You can-¦t be serious? -1 subscribtion

Jo Kiyoko Perkone Caldari State 9	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:02:23 - [1191] - Quote A carrier once killed my blackbird, the multiple logi didn't even had the strength to repair it, i was so pissed that It destroyed my ship so fast and in a cheap manner. I hope you sissy carrier 'pilots' get what coming to you.
Aizec Clark Girls Not Allowed Brothers in Arms Alliance 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:03:07 - [1192] - Quote hmmm....... anyone from ccp should check who and in what ratting anomalies. D u know that most anomalies players are making with 3-4 smartbombing battleships? and how much sp players need to get this ticks? sqad of 3 this bs making more, than 120kk ticks - thats 3 times bigger, than one carrier, which can lost fighters and earn nothing. and u dont need to learn more, than 30kk sp - all u need - just plex 3 charachters and learn them 1-1.5 month.
Krieg Austern 54	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:05:59 - [1193] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Lamajagarn McMyra wrote: Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught. Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea. I don't think that is a bad premise, you are talking about battleships with multiple weapon systems VS a single ship. It should still take significant time for them to wear down your hp. What is ridiculous is that this single flying aircraft carrier can be tackled by a frigate who can keep you locked down until the big friends arrive. Serious lack of balance there.
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:07:23 - [1194] - Quote Jo Kiyoko wrote: A carrier once killed my blackbird, the multiple logi didn't even had the strength to repair it, i was so pissed that It destroyed my ship so fast and in a cheap manner. I hope you sissy carrier 'pilots' get what coming to you. Yeah, those fighters are worth 10x what your blackbird was, on a hull worth over 65x what you ship was. so yeah thats how carriers are supposed to work.
BESTER bm Omni Galactic Central Omni Galactic Group 19	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:13:04 - [1195] - Quote Lightbringer wrote: Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell? Of course not, Larrakin and Fozzie do not communicate between each other.. why would they, what woudl be the point.. From their body language when on stage it's not unreasonable to assume they are not he best of friends.. at best.
Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:18:40 - [1196] - Quote So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game.
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:19:20 - [1197] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. After all i've read and the thoughts i've had, i'd like to see a Isk generating breakdown by ship. We can see from the graphs, that isk is being generated from bounties (duh), but what ships are the ones doing so? I can hardly imagine that ships that cost between 2 - 30 Bil (Carriers and Supers) are the main issue when you can have at least a 6th of the income of a capital by only investing a 100th of the isk (Ishtar vs Super) and about a 12th of the time (Ishtar + Drones 5 vs a well rounded super pilot).
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 22	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:24:30 - [1198] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game. Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP.
BESTER bm Omni Galactic Central Omni Galactic Group 19	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:24:38 - [1199] - Quote MONTYJOHN wrote: ccp has ignored the subtle approach many of us have taken over the years and it would seem the only way to make a impact on the company's decisions is to affect the share holders. you flat out dont just bite the hand that feeds you All changes currently happening are driving towards more plex being bought and strengthening the bottom line for CCP. There is a buyout coming for the company and they need to increase their net worth to get he best price possible. This game has had a good run, it will not be around to hit its 15th year at this rate, especially with what is coming this year as far as a competing game is concerned.. The PVE content is generating too much ISK from NPC bounties So let's reduce the bounties Nah, let's nerf the sh*t out of the ships But how will that reduce the income from NPC bounties, will only take longer to get those Nah, let's nerf the ships regardless, will also drive up PLEX so there you will get your ISK back and drive buying PLEX with real $$ But why Because that will then upset a balance somewhere else so we can rinse..repeat..
Cricri Amatin El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:28:54 - [1200] - Quote Bridge to Me wrote: Hey CCP. First and foremost, I play this game to PVP. I don't have anywhere near as much spare time as I used to be able to dedicate to the game, because real life has been kicking my ass lately, so at best I might get to play for say 10-15 hours a week to spend gaming. Now, I'm a member of a small nullsec sovholding alliance (~500 "members", maybe 100ish real people across multiple timezones). We don't have SRP (it's simply not big enough for that kind of thing) and doctrines tend to be fairly fluid as we respond to different threats. As with any alliance in this situation, we have various frig, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser and battleship fleets. Along with entosis, counter entosis fleets, etc. Due to the number of members that may or many not be available at any one time, people also have to take into account there may just be 8 people in fleet, there may be more when coming up with useable doctrines. Faction ships have often been used, because well, they tend to put out more damage and be more useable in smaller groups. Since your announcement on the changes to faction battleship BPC drops, the prices of faction battleships have skyrocketed. So now we won't be running a faction BS comp anymore and have to find something else viable to use. So, new ship comp to buy? Well, you have to make the ISK for that somehow, time to go grind the (for arguments sake) 300m for a ship or two for this new comp. Now I hate ratting, but okay I'm going to have to go out and do that to pay for some new ships. The only worse thing than ratting? Doing it with no engagement in the game. So no, I'm not going to go afk rat in a VNI/Ishtar. Okay, so I'll go sit in a carrier that involves actually playing the game and having to pay complete attention to it at all times, because now thanks to your last changes if you're not paying attention for more than 2 seconds you can have a fighter alpha'd off field. If I'm lucky, I might make 30m ticks off running havens (before corp tax comes in to play, that's 10%, so I'm actually making 27m every 20 minutes). At the moment, that means I need (after tax) 12 ticks to make that 300m. That's 240 minutes of ratting, or 4 hours. That means I now have just 6-11 hours left a week to spend playing games after ratting. Now, you're saying you want to reduce the damage of light attack fighters by 20%. For arguments sake, let's say that simply means I make 20% less each tick. I've now got a 24m tick before tax, 21.6m tick after tax. It's now taking me 14 ticks to make that same 300m. That's 280 minutes, or 4 hours and 40 minutes of ratting. Now leaving me between 5h 20m-10h 20m left to play each week instead. This isn't even taking into account the cost of replacing fighters you loose in the few seconds you have to look away from a screen due to RL, which means it'll take even longer to make that ISK you needed - plus that's before these changes. After fighters get shot at "15% more" I hate to think what that'll do to how many die each time you rat. So potentially, I end up having to spend almost as much time ratting which I hate, as I do actually being able to do something I enjoy in the game (PVP). Not to mention that sometimes those ships will end up dying, and you'll have to repeat the process over again to replace it. At this point it gets seriously tempting to say you know what? Time to ask CCP to refund the remainder of my subscriptions. I'm just going to spend my gaming time playing PUBG instead. This

Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 12	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:34:17 - [1201] - Quote My answer will be simple. I just realise what i need to do now. So at current state i can make 90-140m ticks with my Hel. Lets say 110m avg so i spend a good 2-3 hours ratting and that will make me 330m+If escalation+if faction spawn a little more. I do this every week not so much i know. If they going to nerf it i will probably do it 3-4 hours a week for the same profit. Will the plug the faucet? No. But i wont stop there. Right after they implement this im going to rat as much as i can. All my free time i will be ratting in my Super and will probably make 10x the amount of isk. So from myself insted of doing around 500m a week i will be doing 5b a week so CCP will be happy the did nerf it. And it did solve everything.
Chlorax W.O.R.M-S.W.A.R.M SPEC OP Privateers 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:34:55 - [1202] - Quote Stop Ruining The Game FFS!
Zeus Cronus Liga Freier Terraner Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:40:24 - [1203] - Quote I hope CCP realizes that this change does not really address the problems we player currently face most importantly: a stagnating game. While the rising ISK from ratting is a problem CCP should address the overall state of the game and I think focus on the "health" of the game not some weird fighter stats. We all now that the current SOV system in combination with citadels and the hard reinforcement and destruction mechanics affect the people overall much more than ISK in the game. While ISK in the game could lead to problems the current lack of content is killing the game. I think that should be a higher priority and I hope CCP devs will now quickly address SOV and structures and will not wait another year. EVE could be dead by then.
Doomchinchilla Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 191	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:46:25 - [1204] - Quote Aldent Arkanon wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game. Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP. Yeah. I don't even rat. I just pvp.
Karina Ivanovich Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 236	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:47:35 - [1205] - Quote Doomchinchilla wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game. Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP. Yeah. I don't even rat. I just pvp. Same Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Curant Thanger Kontained Chaos Blades of Grass 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:52:32 - [1206] - Quote As above, my only real concern with this rebalance is capitals in PVP... Relative to other options carriers will still be better isk generation options, if people are still willing to commit the time and concentration necessary.
Belthoz Minimal Kollektiv 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 12:57:02 - [1207] - Quote Hai CCP First of all I somewhat agree with those changes and I never krabbed in caps. The way you communicate with us is just abysmal by any company standard. That 1% of the 1% really shows you can't emphasize with the regular nullsecer and just look at us as numbers. We have endured so many bad changes over the last couple of years always hoping that they will get balanced and redesigned soonGäó to the better. The timing and general language used by you recently shows you have no respect for your paying customers. I won't bother listing all the problems and bugs that got no attention over the years because others have probably said them before me and I'm sure you know about them and chose to ignore fixing/redesigning/whatever them. I play since 2009 and would like to play in the future, but judging by your business decisions lately you seem to cash out EVE and you're starting with nullsec by depriving us of any motivation and content to do anything more than afk rat. CCP please don't kill EVE, it's the last standing mmo still worth to play.
Cricri Amatin El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:06:34 - [1208] - Quote So now with 60 pages of replies and X number of deleted posts: Yeah I read the infamous 1% post on Reddit. But I would like a formal reply from CCP on all this.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 20	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:07:41 - [1209] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game. Do you own a carrier? Are you aware of the SP and isk involved in them, or a supercarrier? Are you aware of how easily both of these ships are rendered pretty useless and were already broken? Do you think that if the very known issues with them were also being fixed that people would be happier? Do you think that if CCP took proper measures to fix all the issues involved instead of a nerf to the pvp value of expensive and SP intensive ships that are already broken that people would be happier? Your comment brings very little and shows a lack of awareness.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 32	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:11:52 - [1210] - Quote Cricri Amatin wrote: So now with 60 pages of replies and X number of deleted posts: Yeah I read the infamous 1% post on Reddit. But I would like a formal reply from CCP on all this. Replying to a ticket takes months for them, why would they reply to this?

Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:17:36 - [1211] - Quote Doomchinchilla wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game. Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP. Yeah. I don't even rat. I just pvp. you mean you dont have your alt down in delve ratting, while you pvp in your super? I understand that some few might be pissed that this affects pvp too, and rightly so. Although, with the amounts of supers in existence, killing content, that might not be that bad. Still its the PvE loss that caused this big of outcry.
Casidian Isu Isu Biotechnology 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:23:24 - [1212] - Quote I think a better change would be to make rats escalate to capitals just as if players would if a solo carrier were drop on them. Instead of nerfimg fighters, make NPCs 60% more likely to agrees them.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 23	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:36:36 - [1213] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Doomchinchilla wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game. Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP. Yeah. I don't even rat. I just pvp. you mean you dont have your alt down in delve ratting, while you pvp in your super? I understand that some few might be pissed that this affects pvp too, and rightly so. Although, with the amounts of supers in existence, killing content, that might not be that bad. Still its the PvE loss that caused this big of outcry. Supers are not killing content. CCP game mechanics are.
MItchell Jensen The Black Widow Company. FUBAR. 103	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:38:04 - [1214] - Quote I seriously wonder if you guys still think that this is a good idea. I'm not the 1%. Paying for my PVP will become significantly harder if this goes through. CCP Dropbear: rofl edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
Arahabaki Blackrise Vanguard 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:41:23 - [1215] - Quote @CCP LARKIN OR WHOEVER SERIOUS QUESTION. ANY PLANS TO GIVE CITADEL FIGHTER DAMAGE BOUNS OR DRONE DANAGE UPGRADES/RIGS TO COUNTER THIS CHANGE? OR YOU LETTING CITADEL FIGHTER GET THE FULL EFFECT OF NEUTERIBG
Sexy Damsel El Cartel. Solyaris Chtonium 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:45:07 - [1216] - Quote So next step merf vindicator? I can get almost 40m a tick. Lol
Mr Hyde113 368	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:46:26 - [1217] - Quote Is this a typo? Should be frigate damage reduction not fighter. *Fades back to the afterlife
Pentium 4 Good Fight - C U again 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:50:55 - [1218] - Quote The Carrier Ratting and Null mining do need the nerfs, agreed, it's broken and creating inflation. But, the approach taken is what is being criticised. Dont nerf PvP due to PvE. Here is the simple solution: - Put resistance on rats vs fighters - Put max tick limit The above will solve the problem without affecting Pvp. After this, please focus on real issues, i.e - Cancer-Sov - Cancer-Citadel/Structure timers Delay the Refinery release please. Moon goo is a good content driver, everything you guys touch gets messed since past year. Fix Cancer-Sov and Cancer-Citadel and then we can go on to other things, create mechanics that enable huge fights between big groups in whatever sec.
corn holio Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:54:48 - [1219] - Quote Booooooooooo!
TehHouse The Walking Deads DARKNESS. 27	Posted - 2017.06.10 13:55:46 - [1220] - Quote In terms of absolutely terrible ideas, I didn't think you guys would be able to top the dumbing-down of advanced audio. Guess that counts for something.

Sassura Sassy's Corporation 23	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:01:40 - [1221] - Quote TehHouse wrote: In terms of absolutely terrible ideas, I didn't think you guys would be able to top the dumbing-down of advanced audio. Guess that counts for something. Oh they did, by adding huge respawn timers to mining anoms which will have a worse impact on everyone in the game except the alliance that mines the most. For me the most terrible idea CCP have ever had is giving players a reason to log on and simply log back off again because their limited play time does not allow them to do the things they log on for. Fixing rorquals and isk faucets in the worst possible ways, thank you CCP. Why aren't there more focus groups, like the T3's are getting? It's becoming clearer and clearer that the CSM don't really represent the average eve players. Why can't actual eve players help develop ideas that work and test them before more misguided broken crap gets introduced into the game?
Alia Nadasdy Imperial's Capsulers 16	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:13:19 - [1222] - Quote Shame on CCP if you surrender. Good Nerf Return old characters in LORE The game will play with new colors Empire Above All, Joke. "We are the Harbingers of hope, We are the Sword of the Righteous" "We are a shadow of the former greatness of the Empire" Purist Lord Admiral Victor
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 24	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:20:51 - [1223] - Quote Alia Nadasdy wrote: Shame on CCP if you surrender. Good Nerf Yeah, god forbid that they listen to their playerbase.
Torrent Rage Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:23:26 - [1224] - Quote Not a big fan of these changes. Super is going into a keepstar and I unsubbed 5 accounts last night. If anyone wants to come play BDO in a guild made almost entirely of eve players just shoot me a message on discord at TorrentRage#4991.
Steve Rollard Zap Blap Logistics Co 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:28:40 - [1225] - Quote Such a massive blow to the PVP viability of carriers and supers, I feel more could be achieved by altering the anoms to have a better resistance to higher DPS boats or a simple minimum site respawn time for x mins after the first rat is popped.
Rah McGee achtung partizanen 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:31:05 - [1226] - Quote Aldent Arkanon wrote: Alia Nadasdy wrote: Shame on CCP if you surrender. Good Nerf Yeah, god forbid that they listen to their playerbase. What is wrong with supers and carriers being nerfed. It is just a disgrace that they don't even need tackle to pvp against subcaps.
Shalashaska Adam Partial Safety 201	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:31:55 - [1227] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved Fighters are in such a dreadful state I honestly first read the OP as a 20% buff. "Too strong for PvP", what? Every change has been awful. The UI is awful, the application is awful, and now a further 20% nerf? Why did your developers spend so much time making this content, for it to be so carelessly trashed. Why is it that any half decent player could redesign this in a fair way in an afternoon and do it better. Whats the most unbelievable is that it takes years to get a 5% heavy missile buff. Yet this enormous 20% nerf has been pulled out of nowhere, with no thought as to a better way.
Joco Skljoco Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:34:05 - [1228] - Quote CCP Quant recently wrote how supercarrier pilots have 260 million tick.....it is a lie...For your information,because I see that u are incompetent or just a liar with intent,I must to say that possible average thick,for supers(depending on the type)between 90 and 120 mil....So it is not even close to 780 mils per hour that the CCP Quant stated....Multiboxing with Supers/Carriers is impossible... Whole this nerf for Supers And Carriers is based on CCP Quant's famous 260 mil tick This changes will hit all but not that top 1% of the top 1% about CCP Quant talking about (Another lie)...Multiboxers with 10+ Roqual accounts will generate to much isk smoothy....Ghoust farming intact....trading manipulators intact..... CCP told to me that I'm 1% of the top 1% trolololololo, with 90mil tick U do not punishing exploiting....u are punishing regular players,who play by the rules and u are encourage this guys to do more exploiting Capitals will become useless in pvp...Full PVP fited Archon now have about 800 dps,after nerf will be at level Battlecruiser. Last 5 years u talking about dynamic of PVP...What quality content are made to encourage PVE players to switch to PVP??? CCP has lack of vision,excessive salaries and lazy developers...I'm sick of You
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1035	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:37:37 - [1229] - Quote PvP nerf for a PvE non-problem. Line members make ISK and people like me who never PvE'd before are probably contributing more to your graphs than the mythical 750 mil supercarrier multiboxxer single ***** guy in the game. Taking my accounts out. Citadels, entosisin, plex changes for greater money and now this. I think CCP's managers are just trying to kill their game and cash out. ** em. Goddess of the IGS As strength goes.
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 25	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:38:53 - [1230] - Quote Rah McGee wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: Alia Nadasdy wrote: Shame on CCP if you surrender. Good Nerf Yeah, god forbid that they listen to their playerbase. What is wrong with supers and carriers being nerfed. It is just a disgrace that they don't even need tackle to pvp against subcaps. The damage reduction is significant. They're already really easy to jam out or defang, the balancing factor for that in the past was that they at least did respectable damage, now with that being nerfed hard its hard to justify using them at all. Also they do need tackle to PvP against subs unless the subcap pilot(s) are incredibly dumb and cant find the warp button. If a subcap or a subcap fleet isn't tackled they can just leave, its kinda simple. Not to mention that properly fitted 100mn nano cruisers can simply ignore fighters if they have the slightest idea as to how to pilot them properly.

Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 33	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:45:50 - [1231] - Quote Where is the sub-unsub report i've been asking for CCP? Specially since this awesome nerf announcement.
Paul Brinkhoff ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 27	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:46:45 - [1232] - Quote The irony is that ccp keeps pushing more and more expensive pirate faction capitals, supercapitals and titans into the game. Also the intro of skill injectors actively makes the players feel that they need to grind more and more isk to keep up with the upcomming armsrace caused by the above mentioned ships. CCP made it possible to buy SP with isk. But oh god please dont actually grind that isk it ruins the economy. Other things like citadels that prevent major conflicts from happening are untouched. The main issue is that CCP does not want feedback from the playerbase or the csm and now tries to justify bullshit by trying to create a "fight the 1%" narrative backed up by lies. The isk does not come from ratting capitals, as those do not scale. You simple can not multibox supers and carriers for ratting purposes. The effortless afk farming of anomes with a shitton of accounts simultaniously is the issue, not the carrier or the super that actually puts 25+ bil isk out there and is hunted for reddit swag. Yes I do carrier rat and ofc the changes will have an impact on my income but that is not my issue with those changes. CCP now pretending I am some 1% dudes responsible for RMT and the collapse of the economy yada yada and that I therefore need to be punished is a big slap right into my face. It is due to bad game design that those problems exist not due to my 75m ticks in my niddy.
Rah McGee achtung partizanen 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:54:08 - [1233] - Quote Aldent Arkanon wrote: The damage reduction is significant. They're already really easy to jam out or defang, the balancing factor for that in the past was that they at least did respectable damage, now with that being nerfed hard its hard to justify using them at all. Also they do need tackle to PvP against subs unless the subcap pilot(s) are incredibly dumb and cant find the warp button. If a subcap or a subcap fleet isn't tackled they can just leave, its kinda simple. Not to mention that properly fitted 100mn nano cruisers can simply ignore fighters if they have the slightest idea as to how to pilot them properly. Yes, 100mn t3cs or HACs is all we can fly in null because everything else dies almost intantly. You can outjam or defang 3 maybe 5 carriers but not 10+, because this + fax is what you are usually getting dropped on you. And you die because sirens are a thing, dromis are a thing. In my opinion carriers should be dead meat without subcap support, just like dreads are.
Arix Petra The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:54:22 - [1234] - Quote CCP please keep mining the salt from the juicy rich null bears!
Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 13	Posted - 2017.06.10 14:58:58 - [1235] - Quote Rah McGee wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: The damage reduction is significant. They're already really easy to jam out or defang, the balancing factor for that in the past was that they at least did respectable damage, now with that being nerfed hard its hard to justify using them at all. Also they do need tackle to PvP against subs unless the subcap pilot(s) are incredibly dumb and cant find the warp button. If a subcap or a subcap fleet isn't tackled they can just leave, its kinda simple. Not to mention that properly fitted 100mn nano cruisers can simply ignore fighters if they have the slightest idea as to how to pilot them properly. Yes, 100mn t3cs or HACs is all we can fly in null because everything else dies almost instantly. You can outjam or defang 3 maybe 5 carriers but not 10+, because this + fax is what you are usually getting dropped on you. And you die because sirens are a thing, dromis are a thing. In my opinion carriers should be dead meat without subcap support, just like dreads are. So you are upset because the 10 of you can only defang 5 carriers and cant do much about 10+. Tell me more pls.
Agent Hunt3r Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:11:38 - [1236] - Quote CCP is dumb. You've got Rorqs mining 400 mil per hour, but no ratting equiv.
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt Dot Dot Dot 143	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:15:03 - [1237] - Quote And we thought carebear tears were sweet. My cup overfloweth with nullbear tears. We're eating good tonight
Backz Banny KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:15:31 - [1238] - Quote Rah McGee wrote: Aldent Arkanon wrote: The damage reduction is significant. They're already really easy to jam out or defang, the balancing factor for that in the past was that they at least did respectable damage, now with that being nerfed hard its hard to justify using them at all. Also they do need tackle to PvP against subs unless the subcap pilot(s) are incredibly dumb and cant find the warp button. If a subcap or a subcap fleet isn't tackled they can just leave, its kinda simple. Not to mention that properly fitted 100mn nano cruisers can simply ignore fighters if they have the slightest idea as to how to pilot them properly. Yes, 100mn t3cs or HACs is all we can fly in null because everything else dies almost instantly. You can outjam or defang 3 maybe 5 carriers but not 10+, because this + fax is what you are usually getting dropped on you. And you die because sirens are a thing, dromis are a thing. In my opinion carriers should be dead meat without subcap support, just like dreads are. ah, ACHTUNG PARTIZANEN... aren't you the guys who sometimes come to delve to try and f*k with us? in your gang of a couple of people in some cruisers? and you are complaining about our well organized home defense with carriers being able to handle you? we are fielding a shtton more of ISK on field (risking a bait and counterdrop), relying on the effort of way more people than you see on grid (intel, cloaked hics on gates etc), heck, we probably drop as many carriers as you bring small staff. so what does that tell me about the nature of your judgement on this topic?
Rah McGee achtung partizanen 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:15:58 - [1239] - Quote Cpt WhiteEye wrote: So you are upset because the 10 of you can only defang 5 carriers and cant do much about 10+. Tell me more pls. And you are upset now that 5 carriers can't chase away fully formed 30 man gang with logi and everything. Tell me more pls.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 23	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:16:20 - [1240] - Quote Paul Brinkhoff wrote: The irony is that ccp keeps pushing more and more expensive pirate faction capitals, supercapitals and titans into the game. Also the intro of skill injectors actively makes the players feel that they need to grind more and more isk to keep up with the upcomming armsrace caused by the above mentioned ships. CCP made it possible to buy SP with isk. But oh god please dont actually grind that isk it ruins the economy. Other things like citadels that prevent major conflicts from happening are untouched. The main issue is that CCP does not want feedback from the playerbase or the csm and now tries to justify bullshit by trying to create a "fight the 1%" narrative backed up by lies. The isk does not come from ratting capitals, as those do not scale. You simple can not multibox supers and carriers for ratting purposes. The effortless afk farming of anomes with a shitton of accounts simultaniously is the issue, not the carrier or the super that actually puts 25+ bil isk out there and is hunted for reddit swag. Yes I do carrier rat and ofc the changes will have an impact on my income but that is not my issue with those changes. CCP now pretending I am some 1% dudes responsible for RMT and the collapse of the economy yada yada and that I therefore need to be punished is a big slap right into my face. It is due to bad game design that those problems exist not due to my 75m ticks in my niddy. Well said

Rah McGee achtung partizanen 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:21:34 - [1241] - Quote Backz Banny wrote: that is not an answer to the question, is it? What question? That carriers are bullshit? I am so glad that they get a nerfbat and I don't even care what you have to say because outside your krabing experience and maybe some krab defense fleet you have no clue what you are talking about.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 23	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:24:03 - [1242] - Quote Agent Hunt3r wrote: CCP is dumb. You've got Rorqs mining 400 mil per hour, but no ratting equiv. Multiboxing rorquals, yes. Single rorquals don't get close to 200 mil. Of course there is a ratting equivalent, it's multiboxing subs caps via smart bombing or drone boats. Plenty of people do it, and they are laughing right now.
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 27	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:33:12 - [1243] - Quote Stil no answer from the ccp? Why i am even asking.... Couln't wait till tuesday http://imgur.com/lFPPaOK http://imgur.com/9MH9r0g http://imgur.com/OWjYCe3 I hope one day you will listen to your player base...
mrammo Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:35:47 - [1244] - Quote CCP you are killing conflict drivers! Everyone is just accumulating assets. Give us something worth fighting for! Give us a reason to consume!
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 34	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:41:11 - [1245] - Quote Rah McGee wrote: Backz Banny wrote: that is not an answer to the question, is it? What question? That carriers are bullshit? I am so glad that they get a nerfbat and I don't even care what you have to say because outside your krabing experience and maybe some krab defense fleet you have no clue what you are talking about. Why do you want us to care about what you want to say than? Respect each other's opinion and argue. Both sides, pve and pvp have their own good and bad points. We were having a discussion about how CCP "handles" things nowdays and their "dontcareaboutcustomers" style communication. Arguing is for adults though...what explains a lot. Or could.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6582	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:46:01 - [1246] - Quote Mad Bosnian wrote: Atm I can earn 70 million with my Thanatos After patch I could earn around 55-60 million per tick. So, can this "help economy"? You took 30 million ISK less per hour and that's nothing, you need to nerf it even more. You moved 2 carriers from "almost useless" to "don't touch that" So, you guys didn't do anything, I will still buy PLEX and I won't give you a single dime Yes so much better to indirectly promote paying CCP $19.99/month (or more) for that sub. That'll teach 'em! "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rah McGee achtung partizanen 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:46:50 - [1247] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Why do you want us to care about what you want to say than? Respect each other's opinion and argue. Both sides, pve and pvp have their own good and bad points. We were having a discussion about how CCP "handles" things nowdays and their "dontcareaboutcustomers" style communication. Arguing is for adults though...what explains a lot. Or could. I don't know how to argue someone who thinks that dropping more ISK on grid deserves more kills and reward.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 34	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:50:03 - [1248] - Quote Rah McGee wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Why do you want us to care about what you want to say than? Respect each other's opinion and argue. Both sides, pve and pvp have their own good and bad points. We were having a discussion about how CCP "handles" things nowdays and their "dontcareaboutcustomers" style communication. Arguing is for adults though...what explains a lot. Or could. I don't know how to argue someone who thinks that dropping more ISK on grid deserves more kills and reward. Than ignore. We will see what ship gets the nerf next...guess T3's.
GoddessOfPeace Ishikela Dynamic Integrated Solutions Domain Research and Mining Inst. 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:50:19 - [1249] - Quote Arix Petra wrote: CCP please keep mining the salt from the juicy rich null bears! Not really, they kill also LowSex man. They hurt a lot more small entities of LS who trying def their home with 2-3 carriers because now battle archon gonna get like 800 dps maybe 900 with pimp.... even dominix or rattle will do better and gonna be cheaper. Because CCP still not started play his own game
Laenatus ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:54:04 - [1250] - Quote Hello. I am not part of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% etc. I have been running a learning program for people wanting to hunt caps, camp gates, and do other fun things in this game for 3 years now. I spend some time ratting in a carrier to generate isk, to provide content to over 80 people on a daily basis. Until now. A few questions, that you will not answer i am sure.. Why/how would i continue to create content if i cant make money in game? Do you want to tell me what method of income i can start doing that you wont nerf into total uselessness in the next 6 months? No? Do you want me to spend hundreds of USD a month to continue to do my part in making YOUR game worth playing by purchasing PLEX? How high are you right now? Should you be making decisions that you haven't fully considered the consequences of? Saying this only changes things for the top tier players is simply incorrect. I haven't seen any proof this change was even thought out. You have been blatantly ignorant to the profound effect this will have on people creating content, and those that follow them around for it. You wont just be losing subscriptions for ratters, cap pilots.. people will lose their community leaders and will unsubscribe as well. You are making a huge mistake, and refusing to acknowledge everyone's pleas for you to simply not do this, and find another way to deal with the problem. If you want suggestions...read this ******* thread and maybe interact with the communitY?????? wow! what a thought. Or you could ignore the community and force a destructive patch onto it and tell them to simply "deal with it" and it is "their fault". Unacceptable. -3 subscriptions from myself. Who knows if this is even worth my time doing anymore. I hope those 80+ subscribers have someone pick up where i left off. Fools.

Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:55:19 - [1251] - Quote I like how CCP made my first-time payment into recurring one without letting me know, and then I was wondering who stole my money from my account. It made me so angry, when I found out they did I swore to never pay irl $ to them again. Just be happy I play the game and provide content for those who are willing to pay you anything. KTHXBAI
Rah McGee achtung partizanen 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 15:55:40 - [1252] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: We will see what ship gets the nerf next...guess T3's. Yes, and no one threw a tantrum like that. Yes, t3cs will get a nerf but it doesn't matter because of the fighter nerf.
Tobias Frank 58	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:02:13 - [1253] - Quote Rah McGee wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: We will see what ship gets the nerf next...guess T3's. Yes, and no one threw a tantrum like that. Yes, t3cs will get a nerf but it doesn't matter because of the fighter nerf. So, T3s are exclusively used against carriers?
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:04:32 - [1254] - Quote Laenatus wrote: Hello. I am not part of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% etc. I have been running a learning program for people wanting to hunt caps, camp gates, and do other fun things in this game for 3 years now. I spend some time ratting in a carrier to generate isk, to provide content to over 80 people on a daily basis. Until now. Most people I know wanna just pvp, fly around and have fights and fun. Much fewer of them I know are willing to spend hours ratting or mining. No lifes with big toys can buy whole fleets for all the boys who just wanna pew,... but nerfbashing nolifes makes it harder for them to support fun seeking pewpewers. The more they nerf nolifes and their toys, more the nolife will limit themselves to support just themselves not others. This nerf = antifun = antiprogress = antisense nerf.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6582	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:04:48 - [1255] - Quote Kryas wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Ralph Shepard wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions. Which means this is just an excuse from you. Incursion payouts are a fraction of pirate bounties. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png But please keep up the histrionics. Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties? No, I don't think so. https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursion_sites https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursions "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Krieg Austern 54	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:08:18 - [1256] - Quote I have 3 accounts. I pay for 3 accounts with a sub. I'm not a pvp pilot, but don't mind trying. I rat to be able to buy ships to try out. I spent months on training into carriers, and all the supporting fighter skills, because it was a game goal for me. I buy ships for me and for my corp mates so we can all have a good time in eve together. Ratting pays for that. Sure, I could grind out a plex for each of my accounts each month if I wanted to, but I believe in supporting CCP, the game is not free, and if they work hard to provide us with a gaming environment unlike any other, please, take my money. This move though, it's so blinded... you provide the players with economy stats, you can see where money is flowing like an open tap, but rather than taking a step back and seeing what can be done to the environment that provides the isk rather than the tools, you take the easy way out. There's been many great suggestions here - put gates on certain pve sites, buff the npcs, scale the site spawn rates. But no, you just change 2 numbers in the ship configuration database and call it done. What's worse, is you don't just change the numbers incrementally by say 5%... your answer is "hmm, too much isk flowing, let's stem it by 30% that'll fix the economy". Yeah let's see how that works out. For all the discussion this has generated, a whole one CCP employee has chosen to reply (on reddit), and that reply was filled with nothing but misinformation. It was corrected later, but it's a bit late once the horse has bolted. The mere fact that no CCP employee is choosing to respond on this thread, or many others like it, it's like a slap in the face. We are all here because we love EVE - so why are making it so hard to continue doing so?
Laenatus ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:11:25 - [1257] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Laenatus wrote: Hello. I am not part of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% etc. I have been running a learning program for people wanting to hunt caps, camp gates, and do other fun things in this game for 3 years now. I spend some time ratting in a carrier to generate isk, to provide content to over 80 people on a daily basis. Until now. Most people I know wanna just pvp, fly around and have fights and fun. Much fewer of them I know are willing to spend hours ratting or mining. No lifes with big toys can buy whole fleets for all the boys who just wanna pew,... but nerfbashing nolifes makes it harder for them to support fun seeking pewpewers. The more they nerf nolifes and their toys, more the nolife will limit themselves to supporting just themselves not others. This nerf = antifun = antiprogress = antisense nerf. Right. I dont have 60 hours a week to spend ratting, and never will. With my 8 hours of commitment i "dealt with it" and put that isk right into making content for new players who needed it. This hopeless patch totally removes my ability to do this. I'm left with the option of paying much more into the game than i would like to (purchasing plex) or increasing the amount of time i do not have to continue to provide content. The fact CCP is refusing to aknowledge any of us is just the nail in the coffin on this entire game. Dont want to reply to any of this? Fine. Read this: Keep on destroying the game and then wonder why you are packing your desk in a year when everyone's finally fed up with your bullshit. We warned you.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6582	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:13:10 - [1258] - Quote Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest MER: in terms of the money supply http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK. Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016. Same set of graphs: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK. Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game. 600% more ISK entering the game. Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad. Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem. I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Crash 888 TRINTEX 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:14:08 - [1259] - Quote MONTYJOHN wrote: when you are going to get 30m ticks most likely post patch and you loose 2-3 fighters per site your going to me making a measly 20m at that point you might as well be in a ishtar imo A year+ ago the north was full of rr ratting chimeras getting 30mil ticks (probably worse for most scrubs) But there was no mass OUTRAGE about that ? This "nerf" is a return to a baseline normality that existed for a decade plus.
Laenatus ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:20:53 - [1260] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK. Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016. Same set of graphs: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK. Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game. 600% more ISK entering the game. Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad. Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem. I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though. And the good people of delve didn't have anything to do with this right? I dont blame you, i'm sure we'd do the same if we could.

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6584	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:23:20 - [1261] - Quote Krieg Austern wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem. I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though. If you read the comments, a lot of people don't have a problem with limiting the carrier areas. By taking this sledgehammer approach to try and stem the isk, they have ruined the ship for pve and pvp. As I mentioned in my post above - fix the environment NOT the tools. Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP. BTW, the March 2016 MER and the same graphs, http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70162/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70162/1/9b_isk.float.3.png A total of about 23 trillion ISK was added to the economy. Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Aleverette Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 21	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:26:20 - [1262] - Quote Welp, I guess CCP still want us to afk multiboxing. Yey #GiveBacktheOldDroneCarrier
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6584	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:27:05 - [1263] - Quote Laenatus wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK. Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016. Same set of graphs: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK. Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game. 600% more ISK entering the game. Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad. Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem. I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though. And the good people of delve didn't have anything to do with this right? I dont blame you, i'm sure we'd do the same if we could. Look at my alliance....I don't give a flying **** about pointing the finger. My point is that this is not sustainable. It has to change. Yes, this current approach is ham-handed at best. But being a complete moron about it, like most posters are, means that CCP will feel justified in ignoring the idiocy coming from this thread. Now...pull your head out before you suffocate. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sharnhorst von Deathwish STK Scientific The Initiative. 26	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:28:34 - [1264] - Quote I just moved a character to a new account and bought it 1 year in cash to move to a rorqual. Salty about that. I cash injected another 3 weeks ago into a rorqual. K. Salty, but whatever. Finishing my first super. Now that's gonna take a dunk. K. I'll be honest. I am one of those that sees no problem dropping a grand on this game a year, because it's fun and I like it. That's where I am in life and it is what it is. But these radical changes aren't the kind of thing that makes me feel all good about the state of the game or enjoy it. If I don't enjoy it, I won't play it. That's a fact of most people. What's my cash worth to the game? The equivalent of 25 subscriptions a year? Small peanuts unless there are others that are of like mind. This game isn't and should not be Frigates Best ship Online ad anything else is a tossed I am rather amused and flabbergasted by the fact that CCP is making such a blatantly corrupt decision to nerf the most active form of isk generation in game, with some possible contendees, and bypassin the brutally broken passive isk rivers that are multi account afk ratters and skill point farms. Truth be told, I don't care about the afk ishtars. But I do care about the line of thinking.. and lack of morality that leads to punishing active isk generation over passive. I also have a real hard time coming to terms with this fact. If I put 5 or 6 accounts on field with 70 or 80b in assets at risk and o the proverbial table being wagered to make income... why should someone putting 10 accounts with afk fit VNI or Ishtars at maybe 2b to 3b and infinitely less risk.. make the same amount? How does that make sense? Its about the account subscriptions isn't it? It's not about carriers. It's not about rorquals You want 3 times the number of accounts on all in afk fits to make the same isl, so that your online numbers look better. You guys planning on selling out soon? Looks like it with that agenda.
Titus Mayaki HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:30:09 - [1265] - Quote LOOK LOOK...ccp dank derp!
lilol' me Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 86	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:35:36 - [1266] - Quote what really gets me annoyed is the.BILLIONS.AND BILLIONS of PASSIVE income made by the ridiculous thing called rental. Its outraageous that people.like XIX PL and NC ca take REGIONS and just rent them out for stupid amounta and yet ccp DO NOTHING about it. But lets nerf some.income.made.by caps where there is massive risk versus quite frankly not so big reward. That really pi $$es me off
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:38:30 - [1267] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP. Goon and surrogates crying again, where did the drone touch you? PVP as in you sitting in your POS bubble cowering goon? Or when your meat shields failed or fled you cowering all over the map station camping? The only thing goon and alts are concerned about is ISK and the RMT they make from it. So go ahead goon, tell us where the drone touched you cause you were all for drone nerfs.
Hikryon De perdidos al rio 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:41:09 - [1268] - Quote Meh...unnecessary change/nerf...but if you want nerf isk/hour in 0.0...this is the worst option because ishtar/vni/gila are still there As time goes on, my personal theory that CCP/dev team does not play his game is confirmed... gg&wp Hikryon. http://eve-online-dpar.tumblr.com/
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:43:19 - [1269] - Quote Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to!
Aleverette Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 21	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:43:50 - [1270] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK. Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016. Same set of graphs: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK. Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game. 600% more ISK entering the game. Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad. Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem. I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though. Meanwhile players invest huge amount of time and real money into those rorquals and carriers which are basically worth less and less. Who should be responsible for this? CCP is basically flipping off to the dream it promised to us years backwards. The only conclusion is how shortsighted CCP is in order to make some short-term profit.

Hookaj Haj HYPERION ROUGE 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:45:43 - [1271] - Quote The game is about to change drastically with the new moon mining system. Is it really necessary to make significant changes just before this all happens? Players are already trying to figure out how moon mining is going to change nullsec. STOP MESSING WITH SHIPS AND FOCUS ON THE MOON MINING CHANGES!!!! If you have to generate RL $$$ for CCP stock more NPC items such as re-releases of limited or depleted items. ie gecko bpc's for plex. If there is a huge isk faucet plug it with increased Sansha's Incursions in regions with massive output. There will be inherent losses of ships/reduced bounties.... When incursion wormholes open up they should send scouts to tackle ratters. Create new content. Ratting anoms are old and have had few changes. Randomly generate the spawns within anoms. Increase the number of Electronics Warfare capabilities, TP-WEB-SCRAM-Sensor Damp-Jamming, *remove rock havens* they are talentless isk faucets. Increase Wormhole connection possibility based on local numbers/ships in space or with each haven/sanctum ran there is a chance of making a call for wormhole connection .05% so wormhole groups looking for PVP will connect to those high isk generating systems. Create a Keepstar mod that when activated generates a wormhole (between the two pillars/towers) to a random system with significant pilot activity (100+ and consumes liquid ozone by the millions to open, staying open so long as there is Liquid Ozone to consume using the same formula as for bridging). There could be mods for each size of wormhole and they could connect to known or wormhole space. This would significantly increase PVP activity and create a huge isk sink from the massive amount of combat generated. The mod would require an NPC CONCORD blueprint, significant amounts of strontium 50 million+, NPC dread/titan loot drop parts (jump portal generation parts and siege components in large numbers), and tons of sleeper parts.
Hafwolf StarHunt Mordus Angels 14	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:46:58 - [1272] - Quote I think if isk making is the issue then CCP should attach that at the point. the problem is the number of sites a carrier can do in an hour. I can solo a haven in an ishtar in about 40 minutes and a carrier can do int in 10 so limit the spawns of sites or add gates to all the sites except ones that are for capitals and then put them on a lower spawn rate. Last time I looked the system I was in had 6 havens and 3 sanctums maybe increase the amount of time between spawns. I remember when it was only 1 sanctum and 3 havens then ccp really nerfed npc because of the same problem trying to get people to fight over sov. Also if you look at this increase might be the prelude to people getting ready for war and fighting. Then ccp acts with a nerf on a warship in time to kill the interest in sov fighting.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:51:06 - [1273] - Quote Hookaj Haj wrote: The game is about to change drastically with the new moon mining system. Is it really necessary to make significant changes just before this all happens? Players are already trying to figure out how moon mining is going to change nullsec. STOP MESSING WITH SHIPS AND FOCUS ON THE MOON MINING CHANGES!!!! If you have to generate RL $$$ for CCP stock more NPC items such as re-releases of limited or depleted items. ie gecko bpc's for plex. If there is a huge isk faucet plug it with increased Sansha's Incursions in regions with massive output. There will be inherent losses of ships/reduced bounties.... When incursion wormholes open up they should send scouts to tackle ratters. Create new content. Ratting anoms are old and have had few changes. Randomly generate the spawns within anoms. Increase the number of Electronics Warfare capabilities, TP-WEB-SCRAM-Sensor Damp-Jamming, *remove rock havens* they are talentless isk faucets. Increase Wormhole connection possibility based on local numbers/ships in space or with each haven/sanctum ran there is a chance of making a call for wormhole connection .05% so wormhole groups looking for PVP will connect to those high isk generating systems. Create a Keepstar mod that when activated generates a wormhole (between the two pillars/towers) to a random system with significant pilot activity (100+ and consumes liquid ozone by the millions to open, staying open so long as there is Liquid Ozone to consume using the same formula as for bridging). There could be mods for each size of wormhole and they could connect to known or wormhole space. This would significantly increase PVP activity and create a huge isk sink from the massive amount of combat generated. The mod would require an NPC CONCORD blueprint, significant amounts of strontium 50 million+, NPC dread/titan loot drop parts (jump portal generation parts and siege components in large numbers), and tons of sleeper parts. Sure, good ideas, they can delete all anoms for all I care. Just send me a few trillions isk, cause EVE Online is not my 2nd job, it's a game, games are played for fun, I'm not gonna bother working here.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16110	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:51:53 - [1274] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do. Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run. The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well.....
Spec 593357629 42nd Exploration Corps Ultimate Space 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 16:53:39 - [1275] - Quote Stop trying to kill your game. I'm using a vindicator for ratting, I would like to use my carrier for pvp please. Stop making shity changes. a direct nerf to dps of the carrier is THE LAZIEST change i've seen in a long time. GET YOUR **** TOGETHER CCP.
Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 13	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:01:06 - [1276] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do. Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run. The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well..... How does reduced Carrier/Super DPS benefit me in the long run? Still none of you understand the point. For that 300m i want i will simply add 20 more minutes to my ratting time. And i will get the same amount of ISK from rats. The only thing changed here is the combat capabilities of such ships and the amount of time ppl will spen ratting with them. Nothing else. Will it solve the increasing wealth of players? NO Will it remove an entire class of ships from the battlefield? YES We already ran the numbers on the new carriers. And sadly an active tank battleship can tank them after nerf. Simple as that. They are simply will be on the same level of a Rattlesnake. Except the rattle will have more DPS. So the first time youll see a Rattle solo a Carrier tell me this was good. Unless you understand this theres no point arguing. Also this kind of promotes incursions even more. Since they dont change the dps of Shadows. And we all know where they come from.
T4lon The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:01:26 - [1277] - Quote Pretty much everyone else has made the points worth making, so I'll not repeat it. Just want to add my voice to the long list of people saying "DO NOT WANT!"
Eonan Dmalum SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 27	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:02:46 - [1278] - Quote You lost all seven of my subs today. In addition to the chances of ever seeing another dime from me on PLEX. Let that sink in for a minute.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:02:55 - [1279] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! Want to point this out as an example of the extreme short sightedness. The problem isn't some virtual spaceship attributes, its that people don't understand the basics of how money works. If everyone has money, then money is worthless. Carrier and Super Carrier ratting (along with the afkability of null sec anoms) is turning ISK in EVE Online into Zimbabwe Money.. We ALL end up on a super stupid isk treadmill where we all have to grind more to get what we need in game because of this. CCP's action will (at least partially) reverse this. Yes your super or carrier will be less good at burning down havens and sanctums, but it doesn't matter because eventually the isk in your wallet will have some actual value. CCP just needs to do something about afkability in null sec anoms (then tackle wealth generation in high sec with is too safe) and we'll all be sitting pretty economically. Isk is just a mediator, and totally irrelevant in its core. What's relevant are materials needed to build things, and gathering those materials require time and effort. Minerals don't mine themselves, you know. If people don't mine y ou will have no ships to buy with all your isk whatever value it is. Promoting value of mediators is also misleading people and tricking them into believing isk is in any way relevant.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:03:05 - [1280] - Quote Wow, and to think I was about to start training up for carriers to augment my monthly sub with PLEX and start running alts; guess not! So, as I've come to find out, to my grave disappointment, Dust is dead, a major superclass of endgame shipping is about to get eradicated (and one that I enjoy thematically too) and we only have to wait for Sony to release the newest console model for Valkyrie to go ** up and die too because CCP apparently doesn't care to port their hard work and keep it relevant. Here's a few suggestions, total spit-balling, first-post, EVE noobie , feel free to call me names: =Fighters Suck, Swarm Now= Advanced drone controls: need more fighters cause they're ty? launch more drones and train four tiers of 16x skills to get to bigger high-end fighter groups, now fighters are flaky, but come in bigger, scarier numbers and (hopefully) can't be locked down by just one jammer or at least it won't have an easy time of it- you also probably paid cash for the PLEX for the SIs to train all that, so CCP gets their grubby cash if they want it, fighters aren't OP individually, per unit risk on each fighter is still high, and you don't need carrier blobs to make carriers effective platforms =Other Stuff= War games, fighting over PI, PI-SOV, capping capitals-sitting on citadels SOV is created by PI, not starbases, starbases just protect PI by being the big '-you' blobs they are Each Command Center holds a portion of the SOV produced by a planet, maximum number of command centers per planet is limited by how much SOV the planet generates, as each system tends to have more than one planet grabbing up enough SOV to hold the system requires decent investment in PI deployment, which alliances should have anyways Command Center Upgrades skill training and a new PI (Administration Center) could be implemented to allow a single PI array to collect a larger percentage of a planet's shared SOV than a basic Command Center with no Admin Centers attached. sub-content: bring back orbital bombardment of PI and add NPC troops (DUST:The Orbital RTS) Troopers are a PI resource created in training camps and special types by putting basic troops through academies, both stored in barracks; PI can be further diversified by allowing tiered equipment schematics/blueprints to be custom fitted to "companies" of ~250 at a time- looking at the guard staff required for building a keepstar inspired the idea Fozzie-SOV mechanics are now meaningful because each system node (Command Center) is both an incremental SOV resource and a PI lynchpin and every engagement with them is tangible to the players at the site and supports the overall system conquest. Upper echelon command must also manage a multi-grid engagement dictated by the specific geometry of the target system, this applies to both sides of the conflict, citadel placement becomes strategic to support defense of PI-SOV and direction of approach a significant concern- these factors are not direct mechanics that require balancing, but emergent features caused by the simple existence of PI-SOV, the main coding of which is merely an overhaul of the entosis interface being replaced by destruction/capture/boots-on-the-ground mechanics This is really a two-part item, Fozzie-SOV can be replicated, as far as I understand it, by orbital bombardment damage to PI and very simple 'troop-landing'/'troop-reinforcement' timers placed on PI ownership, a more detailed interface comes with making ground troops game assets on the planetary overlay and their interface with nearby shipping. I suppose citadels could be used within an "orbital range" of a planet to lock up a certain amount of SOV, preventing others from installing new PI or capturing the old and needing to conquer both the planet and the fortress protecting it to collect the SOV therefrom, but that's more mechanical detail than I have the experience with the game to comfortably theorycraft. secondary sub-content: boarding actions of starbases, citadels, and capitals/super-caps via squads of NPC troops over companies tertiary sub-content: combine walking in stations with boarding actions, PC boarders now need "walking skills" and equipment a la the old DUST314 mechanics (of which I have absolutely no exposure, so, hey) and can buff/debuff local NPC troops as well as secure captured assets- this would probably require an industrial fitted with troop-carrier modules, tractor beams, boarding clamps, or special drone shuttles or I don't even know- why an industrial? because front-loaded abuse curbing, same with PI invasion, relegate it to an industrial or freighter fit with an option for high-cost (CPU/MJ cost, not isk cost) fits to corvettes and frigates for the edgy combat insertion specialists. I could see EVE players also deploying planetside to bring back dust in its full glory, but when I'm talking about moving dots across the overlay of a minimum of 250 men strong, individual capsuleers are going to be tiny fish in a big pond they aren't really designed for- and the TiDi would be a ***. PvE Reciprocity NPC Factions, including nations have access to all of the above as implemented and will try to take PC assets of the capturable categories inside or near their given territories, this is just an extension of the NPC adaptability content already in CCP's pipeline Nomadic Lolz ORE/Upwell industrial titan (another flavor of giant space penis): gimp it a bit (like 0.2%~5%, not 30%) on resistances, velocity, and EHP; don't give it any new hold space, just keep everything as is; and let it mount strip miners and micro-sized S-Slot STANDUP rigs- actually, just make Small STANDUP rigs a Titan feature in general- boom, mobile citadels with massive mining DPS and a hold so small you need to fleet up industrials and freighters to keep the lasers running

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16113	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:03:33 - [1281] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do. Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run. The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well..... Your argument defeats itself. Since I'm already well off, because i put in effort and time and made myself richer than most others, why should I care about what's good for an average guy who doesn't care to put the same effort and time in the first place. Everyone could be rich but #effort & #time are two alien aspects of life to mediocre population. Apropos, everything should be free for everyone to have ultimate maximum fun, no work - just fun. It's you capitalists and jews blabbering about value of this and that who don't get it and are holding the world back from evolving into its greater version altogether. This isn't about effort. CCP made a disasterous change when they changed fighters, and players used this to hyperinflate the money supply in EVE. CCP are now fixing this problem, and the (average of 27 years old) man children who got used to printing isk are pissed off that CCP is taking away the mistake they are exploiting. It's just a video game, but the response people are having shows IMO who people are crappy IRL and why another asteroid slamming into the rock we live on might not be a terribly bad idea.
Nevase Prometeus Every Man for Himself Fidelas Constans 12	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:06:41 - [1282] - Quote Now I had one more reason to go for SC
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:10:10 - [1283] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do. Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run. The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well..... Your argument defeats itself. Since I'm already well off, because i put in effort and time and made myself richer than most others, why should I care about what's good for an average guy who doesn't care to put the same effort and time in the first place. Everyone could be rich but #effort & #time are two alien aspects of life to mediocre population. Apropos, everything should be free for everyone to have ultimate maximum fun, no work - just fun. It's you capitalists and jews blabbering about value of this and that who don't get it and are holding the world back from evolving into its greater version altogether. This isn't about effort. CCP made a disasterous change when they changed fighters, and players used this to hyperinflate the money supply in EVE. CCP are now fixing this problem, and the (average of 27 years old) man children who got used to printing isk are pissed off that CCP is taking away the mistake they are exploiting. It's just a video game, but the response people are having shows IMO who people are crappy IRL and why another asteroid slamming into the rock we live on might not be a terribly bad idea. CCP is attacking isk, only shows they also don't understand anything. Value of money is arbitrary. In multiple rorqs I couldn't care less about money, I build all I need, my time spend in ore sites is translated directly into ships and mods by-passing money completely. Everyone could have rorqs, build their stuff, market is irrelevant and so would be isk. Only to get every miner into rorq and every ratter into super (cause drops/salvage=rigs). The only healthy system is the one where money becomes irrelevant. In systems where money is relevant in any way it holds everything else hostage to its value and is subject to manipulation.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:14:35 - [1284] - Quote Legit what Mary Timeshift Jane is on about, long-term goal for me is just to acquire all the BPOs, ALL THE BPOs, invent as many T2 BPCs as I can and use isk to support the rest and just build everything I need in-house with as little reliance on the market as possible. That goal fuels every other decision I make in the game.
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 54	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:16:15 - [1285] - Quote This is getting better and better, found at least 15 various changes that would make way more sence than what CCP came up with. Employ some of those posters.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6588	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:23:26 - [1286] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP. Goon and surrogates crying again, where did the drone touch you? PVP as in you sitting in your POS bubble cowering goon? Or when your meat shields failed or fled you cowering all over the map station camping? The only thing goon and alts are concerned about is ISK and the RMT they make from it. So go ahead goon, tell us where the drone touched you cause you were all for drone nerfs. Your post is very muddled...on the one hand you are implying that because I am in GSF I am interested in only making ISK. On the other you are implying I hate drones and ratting even though I agree this nerf is probably not the right way to go regarding the flood of ISK flowing into the game and potential bad effects that could have. Maybe you should sit down with an adult and have them help you figure things out. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 14	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:24:11 - [1287] - Quote So, lets analyze end game content Lv5 missions - decent option but most ppl hate missions with a passion and will not grind enough to get there. Incursions - has not had a big change since the dawn of the ages, still a lucrative avenue if you have the time and patience Null sec mining - the rorq is getting nerfed to the point it may only get used as a mobile ore compression ship in the forceable future, hope you kept your hulks Null sec anomolies - aka carrier/super ratting. Kiss it goodbye C6 WH sleeper sites - Only a handful can even run these because of time required plus everyone must be online at specific times to make it work. So, what will be left? Lv5's, incursions, and sleeper sites after this series of nerfs. Guess end game content is no more again.
Scath Bererund SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore 67	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:24:41 - [1288] - Quote Look at all the 1% of the 1% players... Lets see if ccp will listen for a change
Mephiztopheleze Laphroaig Inc. 1283	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:25:38 - [1289] - Quote Probably been said, but Fighters are ridiculously vulnerable to ECM. I just shutdown a Wyverns damage output with a Kitsune. hastag-justsaying-perhaps-there's-more-to-consider? Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6588	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:32:13 - [1290] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. Don't believe me, this is precisely why we had stagflation around the early 1970s. There used to be a macro statistical relationship between the inflation rate and unemployment. Higher inflation => lower unemployment. Policy makers used this to try and counter act the business cycle. Problem is people figured out that higher wages and higher prices did not lead to an economic gain. This can be seen by looking at the household/individual's budget constraint: P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH if P(y) and P(x) and w (the price for good y, x and the wage respectively) all double you get: 2P(y)Y + 2P(x)x = 2wH. This can be re-written as: 2[P(y)Y + P(x)x] = 2wH. Basic algebra tells us that the 2's cancel, that is we are, in the end, left with P(y)Y + P(x)x = w*H. That is the original budget constraint. Now once people figure this out--i.e. they no longer suffer from money illusion that inflation-unemployment trade off I talked about disappeared and we ended up with higher inflation and higher unemployment which in turn lead to the political concept known as the misery index. So pull your head out of ass. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Valdr Auduin CatPack 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:36:20 - [1291] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. Don't believe me, this is precisely why we had stagflation around the early 1970s. There used to be a macro statistical relationship between the inflation rate and unemployment. Higher inflation => lower unemployment. Policy makers used this to try and counter act the business cycle. Problem is people figured out that higher wages and higher prices did not lead to an economic gain. This can be seen by looking at the household/individual's budget constraint: P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH if P(y) and P(x) and w (the price for good y, x and the wage respectively) all double you get: 2P(y)Y + 2P(x)x = 2wH. This can be re-written as: 2[P(y)Y + P(x)x] = 2wH. Basic algebra tells us that the 2's cancel, that is we are, in the end, left with P(y)Y + P(x)x = w*H. That is the original budget constraint. Now once people figure this out--i.e. they no longer suffer from money illusion that inflation-unemployment trade off I talked about disappeared and we ended up with higher inflation and higher unemployment which in turn lead to the political concept known as the misery index. So pull your head out of ass. Edit: To be clear why that post is so freaking stupid. Why don't we do this in real life? Because most people and most leaders of countries do not want to end up like fecking Venezuela or Zimbabwe with run away hyperinflation. I can live with that reasoning, but how do you answer to carriers not being viable for fighting things?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6588	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:38:53 - [1292] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! Want to point this out as an example of the extreme short sightedness. The problem isn't some virtual spaceship attributes, its that people don't understand the basics of how money works. If everyone has money, then money is worthless. Carrier and Super Carrier ratting (along with the afkability of null sec anoms) is turning ISK in EVE Online into Zimbabwe Money.. We ALL end up on a super stupid isk treadmill where we all have to grind more to get what we need in game because of this. CCP's action will (at least partially) reverse this. Yes your super or carrier will be less good at burning down havens and sanctums, but it doesn't matter because eventually the isk in your wallet will have some actual value. CCP just needs to do something about afkability in null sec anoms (then tackle wealth generation in high sec with is too safe) and we'll all be sitting pretty economically. Isk is just a mediator, and totally irrelevant in its core. What's relevant are materials needed to build things, and gathering those materials require time and effort. Minerals don't mine themselves, you know. If people don't mine y ou will have no ships to buy with all your isk whatever value it is. Promoting value of mediators is also misleading people and tricking them into believing isk is in any way relevant. Yes, ISK is a facilitator of transactions, but if you print too much of it it destroys the purchasing power of said currency. When the government does it, it is called an inflation tax or seigniorage. When the government does it it destroys the pruchasing power of the money already in existence. When players do it with ISK it does the same thing but to other players. In short you are getting "rich" by making other players poorer. That is not game balance. You want the money supply to grow at about the same rate as the real economy--i.e. little to no inflation. You really do not understand even the rudiments of monetary theory at all. For example, ISK is not a fiat currency, IMO, it is actually a synthetic commodity currency. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Isuro Tanaka Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:43:03 - [1293] - Quote Sure seems like a lot of "1 % of 1%" people here...hmmm.
WhiteOrm Outer Space Random Corp 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:44:14 - [1294] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. CCP Larrikin wrote: This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Nope. You DO get rich this way. Because when small number of players have many ISK it directly makes them rich. It is other players that become relatively poorer from ISK inflation etc. To put it simply you had a chance to become rich by becoming a carrier/super pilot (that is a long shot), but you have that chance no more.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:44:25 - [1295] - Quote Sudden thought, what if carriers get a larger grid?
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:53:57 - [1296] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP. Goon and surrogates crying again, where did the drone touch you? PVP as in you sitting in your POS bubble cowering goon? Or when your meat shields failed or fled you cowering all over the map station camping? The only thing goon and alts are concerned about is ISK and the RMT they make from it. So go ahead goon, tell us where the drone touched you cause you were all for drone nerfs. Your post is very muddled...on the one hand you are implying that because I am in GSF I am interested in only making ISK. On the other you are implying I hate drones and ratting even though I agree this nerf is probably not the right way to go regarding the flood of ISK flowing into the game and potential bad effects that could have. Maybe you should sit down with an adult and have them help you figure things out. Oh no goon - definition 'stupid person', you cried for drone nerfs cause someone blew up your internet space ship. Now the follow up to the overpowered fighter situation. Just as drones were nerfed, now fighters will come in line with the drone nerfs you cried your eyes out about. Sorry carebear isk farmer, you'll just have to farm harder.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:55:23 - [1297] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. Don't believe me, this is precisely why we had stagflation around the early 1970s. There used to be a macro statistical relationship between the inflation rate and unemployment. Higher inflation => lower unemployment. Policy makers used this to try and counter act the business cycle. Problem is people figured out that higher wages and higher prices did not lead to an economic gain. This can be seen by looking at the household/individual's budget constraint: P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH if P(y) and P(x) and w (the price for good y, x and the wage respectively) all double you get: 2P(y)Y + 2P(x)x = 2wH. This can be re-written as: 2[P(y)Y + P(x)x] = 2wH. Basic algebra tells us that the 2's cancel, that is we are, in the end, left with P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH. That is the original budget constraint. Now once people figure this out--i.e. they no longer suffer from money illusion that inflation-unemployment trade off I talked about disappeared and we ended up with higher inflation and higher unemployment which in turn lead to the political concept known as the misery index. So pull your head out of ass. Edit: To be clear why that post is so freaking stupid. Why don't we do this in real life? Because most people and most leaders of countries do not want to end up like fecking Venezuela or Zimbabwe with run away hyperinflation. Good stuff, don't understand that formula at all. I'm not a friend with math, but Im a friend to 420 (read 'till the end, judge me later)... and I've seen realities other than ours where people don't jew on each other, don't monetize every service, move, every hello or every smile, because people in those higher up* realities chose collaborative creation of the universe instead of greed infested junkyard. Remember Eve tyrannis trailer? - Creation is so precious, greed so destructive. Your choice will make a difference. So what keeps you choosing greed all the time? In our reality people define profit as taking from others and adding to their own.... to me profit is sharing with others for the benefit of all. I build carriers for my friends free of charge, here and there I ask for cash for plex, they happily share that with me. Most carriers I build for them are free of charge. I already enjoy the activities of mining, ratting themselves as well as occasional pvping. I ratted in super to get isk only to make one time investment into BPOs. Now I put them on endless copy cycles on all my available slots and when my friends need some I throw it at them for free. Like haha, I don't even care. I cycle planets each day over xy toons, drop on a pile to corp for free anyone can build anything out of it. I do it cause it takes only 15minutes a day, and adds a great benefit. Life is easier for everyone and everyone enjoys themselves way more. They're also pretty chill and it's fun to be around people like that... after all, what is life to you? What you gotta prove and to whom and why? I chose to pursue creation of a world where everything is easy going, free of charge or very cheap, where everyone can have fun without having to struggle to have some fun. Now feel free to judge me how terrible of a person I'm for doing that terrible forbidden <- \o/ ...stuff irl.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:59:45 - [1298] - Quote Oh, Jane, darling, you do realize what you're doing right? you're giving the greedy bastards free isk by dropping those BPCs everywhere. You're destabilizing the market with your goodwill; killing us with your kindness, as it were.
Sidrat Flush KarmaFleet 194	Posted - 2017.06.10 17:59:46 - [1299] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: I build carriers for my friends free of charge, here and there I ask for cash for plex, they happily share that with me. Most carriers I build for them are free of charge. I already enjoy the activities of mining, ratting themselves as well as occasional pvping. I ratted in super to get isk only to make one time investment into BPOs. Now I put them on endless copy cycles on all my available slots and when my friends need some I throw it at them for free. Like haha, I don't even care. I cycle planets each day over xy toons, drop on a pile to corp for free anyone can build anything out of it. I do it cause it takes only 15minutes a day, and adds a great benefit. Now feel free to judge me how terrible of a person I'm for doing that terrible forbidden <- \o/ ...stuff irl. It's a nice thing to do. You do realize they're selling them no the market right? Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:01:24 - [1300] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You really do not understand even the rudiments of monetary theory at all. For example, ISK is not a fiat currency, IMO, it is actually a synthetic commodity currency. All I understand about money is that it's utter crap, necessary evil for underdeveloped worlds like ours. And we need strive to find ways to get rid of it NOT cling to it or justify it by blahblah theories of how it's supposed to work.

Crash 888 TRINTEX 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:04:48 - [1301] - Quote how is pvp screwed by this? Your dps is reduced, but so is the enemy dps. No one is better or worse off than before. What difference does it make?
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:05:26 - [1302] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Oh, Jane, darling, you do realize what you're doing right? you're giving the greedy bastards free isk by dropping those BPCs everywhere. You're destabilizing the market with your goodwill; killing us with your kindness, as it were. No my friends build their caps and supers and titans from these bpcs. They are far too rich to bother selling bpcs lol. That's poor man's job to use it as means to get richer and transfer into more profitable production. Like I said, because in my world people share with each other like we were all brothers, there's no poorminded greed jew mentality. And even if there was, then we help her/him raise to the same levels of our own riches so that s/he too can too enjoy life of abundance and have all they dream of.
Nasar Vyron S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 238	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:06:15 - [1303] - Quote Isuro Tanaka wrote: Sure seems like a lot of "1 % of 1%" people here...hmmm. You realize you're on the EVE forums correct? So ya, this is a fraction of a fraction of the actual playerbase. The majority of which are HS players who don't give two ***** what null players cry about. And this is just crying about CCP balancing something people were foolish enough to throw RL money into to inject for under the delusion that it was actually going to stay broken. If injectors were never introduced this would have never turned into such a massive problem. Just like rorqs would have enjoyed a few more months in the sun if we didn't suddenly have thousands of new perfect pilots popping up literally over night. CCP made the mistake of implementing them at all in the hopes it would help new players, which is definitively has, however it opened this can of worms which has made the gains arguably not worth it. Hell even limiting their use to just alpha-level skills would have been a better implementation than what we have. Because people have spent real money there are those that feel entitled to their gold rounds more than ever before. Forgetting cost has never, should never, will never, be a factor in balance. Especially to the detriment of game health and stability. Anyone with the mindset that they deserve an imbalanced ship due to time or money spent to obtain it are better off just unsubbing.
Skill Deficiency Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:07:05 - [1304] - Quote I like this list of changes and support the direction CCP is taking the game. I like that these necessary changes were made despite there being some pushback from a few of the games players. Moving forward I would like carriers further reviewed as well as the subcaps and the variance in damage between one and the next. Drones as a weapons class probably need to be reviewed further as it hasn't felt right since the introduction of all the drone modules which made them a weapons group as opposed to supplementary dps - they move to primary form of dps for many subcaps and I don't think we should balance eve around some of the obscene DPS numbers we see some subcaps reaching. Overall very postiive changes and look forward to whats next. It is refreshing to see carriers get addressed as we better define the future of EVE PVP.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:08:33 - [1305] - Quote Injectors are too expensive, they don't help new players, they help plex-players.
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:08:37 - [1306] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. Don't believe me, this is precisely why we had stagflation around the early 1970s. There used to be a macro statistical relationship between the inflation rate and unemployment. Higher inflation => lower unemployment. Policy makers used this to try and counter act the business cycle. Problem is people figured out that higher wages and higher prices did not lead to an economic gain. This can be seen by looking at the household/individual's budget constraint: P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH if P(y) and P(x) and w (the price for good y, x and the wage respectively) all double you get: 2P(y)Y + 2P(x)x = 2wH. This can be re-written as: 2[P(y)Y + P(x)x] = 2wH. Basic algebra tells us that the 2's cancel, that is we are, in the end, left with P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH. That is the original budget constraint. Now once people figure this out--i.e. they no longer suffer from money illusion that inflation-unemployment trade off I talked about disappeared and we ended up with higher inflation and higher unemployment which in turn lead to the political concept known as the misery index. So pull your head out of ass. Edit: To be clear why that post is so freaking stupid. Why don't we do this in real life? Because most people and most leaders of countries do not want to end up like fecking Venezuela or Zimbabwe with run away hyperinflation. Good stuff, don't understand that formula at all. I'm not a friend with math, but Im a friend to 420 (read 'till the end, judge me later)... and I've seen realities other than ours where people don't jew on each other, don't monetize every service, move, every hello or every smile, because people in those higher up* realities chose collaborative creation of the universe instead of greed infested junkyard. Remember Eve tyrannis trailer? - Creation is so precious, greed so destructive. Your choice will make a difference. So what keeps you choosing greed all the time? In our reality people define profit as taking from others and adding to their own.... to me profit is sharing with others for the benefit of all. I build carriers for my friends free of charge, here and there I ask for cash for plex, they happily share that with me. Most carriers I build for them are free of charge. I already enjoy the activities of mining, ratting themselves as well as occasional pvping. I ratted in super to get isk only to make one time investment into BPOs. Now I put them on endless copy cycles on all my available slots and when my friends need some I throw it at them for free. Like haha, I don't even care. I cycle planets each day over xy toons, drop on a pile to corp for free anyone can build anything out of it. I do it cause it takes only 15minutes a day, and adds a great benefit. Life is easier for everyone and everyone enjoys themselves way more. They're also pretty chill and it's fun to be around people like that... after all, what is life to you? What you gotta prove and to whom and why? I chose to pursue creation of a world where everything is easy going, free of charge or very cheap, where everyone can have fun without having to struggle to have some fun. Now feel free to judge me how terrible of a person I'm for doing that terrible forbidden <- \o/ ...stuff irl. " The most irrelevant post in the entire thread, most of us don't share your communistic world view- nobody I know is going to build carriers free of charge. I don't work for free in real life, I'm not doing it in video games, neither do my mates. Back to the point, these changes are terrible. They're a lazy approach to solve a problem that's going to be easily circumvented by just ditching carriers and hopping into marauders for some other ship that can clear anoms just as fast. What they're doing to endgame ships is in truth, unjustifiable and I know dozens of people that are quitting the game for as a result of it. I've never seen anything like the hate I'm hearing in comms, it's shocking how many people are fed up with CCP ignoring our CSM reps and to make divisive, dramatic changes like the one proposed.
Isuro Tanaka Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:09:49 - [1307] - Quote Nasar Vyron wrote: Isuro Tanaka wrote: Sure seems like a lot of "1 % of 1%" people here...hmmm. You realize you're on the EVE forums correct? So ya, this is a fraction of a fraction of the actual playerbase. The majority of which are HS players who don't give two ***** what null players cry about. And this is just crying about CCP balancing something people were foolish enough to throw RL money into to inject for under the delusion that it was actually going to stay broken. If injectors were never introduced this would have never turned into such a massive problem. Just like rorqs would have enjoyed a few more months in the sun if we didn't suddenly have thousands of new perfect pilots popping up literally over night. CCP made the mistake of implementing them at all in the hopes it would help new players, which is definitively has, however it opened this can of worms which has made the gains arguably not worth it. Hell even limiting their use to just alpha-level skills would have been a better implementation than what we have. Because people have spent real money there are those that feel entitled to their gold rounds more than ever before. Forgetting cost has never, should never, will never, be a factor in balance. Especially to the detriment of game health and stability. Anyone with the mindset that they deserve an imbalanced ship due to time or money spent to obtain it are better off just unsubbing. The "fraction" of the playerbase that has kept this game going for so long, the ones that even got the game on the map for those hisec people to even be playing the game for the most part. I will agree with you on injectors though and honestly the ghost training issue compounds that even further.
Gumby Taron BURN EDEN Northern Coalition. 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:10:48 - [1308] - Quote Crash 888 wrote: how is pvp screwed by this? Your dps is reduced, but so is the enemy dps. Everyone remains in the same relative position. What difference does it make? Yea maybe if everyone in this game only flew carriers (hint:they don't) This really hurts small scale pvp groups and their ability to fight numeric odds using higher SP and isk investment into ships such as carriers and super carriers, and it strengthens large capital heavy alliances such as PL, NC. and GSF who have the numbers to not be affected by the damage cuts. What this won't hurt is the the influx of isk into the game which is the real problem driving the changes. As someone who super rats, I can just invest the isk into afk VNI characters and make the same if not more isk within the current mechanics (I'm already considering doing this). Basically, the changes don't do anything but negatively affect the best part of the game (PVP), while they are not effective at countering the intended problem.
Backz Banny KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:13:11 - [1309] - Quote so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ***** world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. so if ccp wants to keep the liquid isk ingame constant (the reasoning behind that being questionable), but people simply got more productive, maybe introduce some FUKIN SINKS. quick example: like many bees out there i was looking forward to that cool hazard control skin for my nid (oh , you got me there, i DO rat in a carrier). i can buy it for a metric shtton of real money. i can buy it for isk, but that just moves isk to someone else who spent real money. either way, no isk leaves the system. if i could have bought that skin for isk, with the current conversion rate of plex to isk, from some **** npc feggit -> boom, ISK LEAVING THE SYSTEM. but oh noooo, then ccp could make the quick buck/cashgrab on cosmetics (really, creating the whole line of skins took them maybe 2 days of a single artist's work). so, buying cosmetics and other ** that does not increase your actual net worth and power ingame for isk from npcs, that would go a long way in solving ccp's problem of people being too rich because they "work" too much and too good in this game. and nobody would feel shat on because only his way of grinding isk to spend on actual gameplay would be singled out and hit.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:14:32 - [1310] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. Don't believe me, this is precisely why we had stagflation around the early 1970s. There used to be a macro statistical relationship between the inflation rate and unemployment. Higher inflation => lower unemployment. Policy makers used this to try and counter act the business cycle. Problem is people figured out that higher wages and higher prices did not lead to an economic gain. This can be seen by looking at the household/individual's budget constraint: P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH if P(y) and P(x) and w (the price for good y, x and the wage respectively) all double you get: 2P(y)Y + 2P(x)x = 2wH. This can be re-written as: 2[P(y)Y + P(x)x] = 2wH. Basic algebra tells us that the 2's cancel, that is we are, in the end, left with P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH. That is the original budget constraint. Now once people figure this out--i.e. they no longer suffer from money illusion that inflation-unemployment trade off I talked about disappeared and we ended up with higher inflation and higher unemployment which in turn lead to the political concept known as the misery index. So pull your head out of ass. Edit: To be clear why that post is so freaking stupid. Why don't we do this in real life? Because most people and most leaders of countries do not want to end up like fecking Venezuela or Zimbabwe with run away hyperinflation. Good stuff, don't understand that formula at all. I'm not a friend with math, but Im a friend to 420 (read 'till the end, judge me later)... and I've seen realities other than ours where people don't jew on each other, don't monetize every service, move, every hello or every smile, because people in those higher up* realities chose collaborative creation of the universe instead of greed infested junkyard. Remember Eve tyrannis trailer? - Creation is so precious, greed so destructive. Your choice will make a difference. So what keeps you choosing greed all the time? In our reality people define profit as taking from others and adding to their own.... to me profit is sharing with others for the benefit of all. I build carriers for my friends free of charge, here and there I ask for cash for plex, they happily share that with me. Most carriers I build for them are free of charge. I already enjoy the activities of mining, ratting themselves as well as occasional pvping. I ratted in super to get isk only to make one time investment into BPOs. Now I put them on endless copy cycles on all my available slots and when my friends need some I throw it at them for free. Like haha, I don't even care. I cycle planets each day over xy toons, drop on a pile to corp for free anyone can build anything out of it. I do it cause it takes only 15minutes a day, and adds a great benefit. Life is easier for everyone and everyone enjoys themselves way more. They're also pretty chill and it's fun to be around people like that... after all, what is life to you? What you gotta prove and to whom and why? I chose to pursue creation of a world where everything is easy going, free of charge or very cheap, where everyone can have fun without having to struggle to have some fun. Now feel free to judge me how terrible of a person I'm for doing that terrible forbidden <- \o/ ...stuff irl. " The most irrelevant post in the entire thread, most of us don't share your communistic world view- nobody I know is going to build carriers free of charge. I don't work for free in real life, I'm not doing it in video games, neither do my mates. Back to the point, these changes are terrible. They're a lazy approach to solve a problem that's going to be easily circumvented by just ditching carriers and hopping into marauders for some other ship that can clear anoms just as fast. What they're doing to endgame ships is in truth, unjustifiable and I know dozens of people that are quitting the game for as a result of it. I've never seen anything like the hate I'm hearing in comms, it's shocking how many people are fed up with CCP ignoring our CSM reps and to make divisive, dramatic changes like the one proposed. I agree with you on that a lot of my attitude comes from 420. It can me zone out to the point just sit and stare in front of me into space and I will be having most awesome times with my own thoughts or the tiniest details like watching a bug crawl across the table or leaf dangling in on a branch of a tree in the wind lol. And I sit, I breath, I drink and eat and by that alone I'm thoroughly amused and life's beautiful. Don't need much else. So pardon my ignorance of not finding a point in clinging to pixel ships, or virtual currency of isk like yourself. I come from a different world. lmao

Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:15:12 - [1311] - Quote Nevase Prometeus wrote: If you need to reduce ISK storming in system for equal why not reduce all bounty in every level mission. Make fraction items is the reasons for players to rat not bounty. because its not only carriers that are ratting, and they dont want to reduce ISK from all over the spectrum of ratters. A wise decision.
Crash 888 TRINTEX 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:17:14 - [1312] - Quote Gumby Taron wrote: Crash 888 wrote: how is pvp screwed by this? Your dps is reduced, but so is the enemy dps. Everyone remains in the same relative position. What difference does it make? Yea maybe if everyone in this game only flew carriers (hint:they don't) This really hurts small scale pvp groups and their ability to fight numeric odds using higher SP and isk investment into ships such as carriers and super carriers, and it strengthens large capital heavy alliances such as PL, NC. and GSF who have the numbers to not be affected by the damage cuts. Yet somehow small groups managed to play the game from 2003-2016 before these hilariously op fighters were introduced.
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:18:55 - [1313] - Quote Backz Banny wrote: so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ******* world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. You're right goon, they do need to nerf bounties by 50% and faction drops by 75% along with fighter nerfs.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:20:06 - [1314] - Quote cosmetics are such trash, some sort of decal art I could see, but simple pallette swaps don't make me want to spend RL money for the plex, they aren't even skin variations same for avatar accessories, I'll pay isk for the ones I want, but those're mostly for RP reasons, not some fashion minigame I pay for my sub, that's the end of my luxury spending on this game
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:21:12 - [1315] - Quote [/quote] The most irrelevant post in the entire thread, most of us don't share your communistic world view- nobody I know is going to build carriers free of charge. I don't work for free in real life, I'm not doing it in video games, neither do my mates. Back to the point, these changes are terrible. They're a lazy approach to solve a problem that's going to be easily circumvented by just ditching carriers and hopping into marauders for some other ship that can clear anoms just as fast. What they're doing to endgame ships is in truth, unjustifiable and I know dozens of people that are quitting the game for as a result of it. I've never seen anything like the hate I'm hearing in comms, it's shocking how many people are fed up with CCP ignoring our CSM reps and to make divisive, dramatic changes like the one proposed.[/quote] [/quote] I agree with you on that a lot of my attitude comes from 420. It can me zone out to the point I just sit and stare in front of me into space and I will be having most awesome times with my own thoughts or the tiniest details like watching a bug crawl across the table or leaf dangling around on a branch of a tree in the wind lol. And I sit, I breath, I drink and eat and by that alone I'm thoroughly amused and life's beautiful. Don't need much else. So pardon my ignorance of not finding a point in clinging to pixel ships, or virtual currency of isk like yourself. I come from a different world. lmao[/quote] You're forgiven. Eve needs space hippies for capitalists to kill; balance is a good thing. Seriously though, I hope CCP shows some love for the community and stalls these massive nerfs until our CSM's can become more involved--it's shocking how they were not involved in these proposed changes. Why do we even have the elections if the developers are just going to ignore us and do things like this to it's playerbase? I mean, 20% damage nerf...wtf CCP?
Valdr Auduin CatPack 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:25:22 - [1316] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: "I agree with you on that a lot of my attitude comes from 420. It can me zone out to the point I just sit and stare in front of me into space and I will be having most awesome times with my own thoughts or the tiniest details like watching a bug crawl across the table or leaf dangling around on a branch of a tree in the wind lol. And I sit, I breath, I drink and eat and by that alone I'm thoroughly amused and life's beautiful. Don't need much else. So pardon my ignorance of not finding a point in clinging to pixel ships, or virtual currency of isk like yourself. I come from a different world. lmao" You're forgiven. Eve needs space hippies for capitalists to kill; balance is a good thing. Seriously though, I hope CCP shows some love for the community and stalls these massive nerfs until our CSM's can become more involved--it's shocking how they were not involved in these proposed changes. Why do we even have the elections if the developers are just going to ignore us and do things like this to it's playerbase? I mean, 20% damage nerf...wtf CCP? agreed, massive fluctuations like that introduce reactionary instability in the markets, high-end players adapt and move on, and then scammers extend those disruptions via their disinfo marketing- a slow taper on fighter damage followed by a hard stop once CCP feels they hit the right reduction would be smarter than a massive utility cliff like this
Backz Banny KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:31:40 - [1317] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Backz Banny wrote: so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ***** world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. You're right goon, they do need to nerf bounties by 50% and faction drops by 75% along with fighter nerfs. yeah, and put npc sell orders at fixed prices for every item. and buff mission income. did you even read what i wrote, that it all was about more isk SINKS to adjust the amount of money in the game? i ** you no kiddo, it's like talking to a potted plant about the inner workings of a nuclear power plant -.-
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:37:12 - [1318] - Quote Backz Banny wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Backz Banny wrote: so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ***** world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. You're right goon, they do need to nerf bounties by 50% and faction drops by 75% along with fighter nerfs. yeah, and put npc sell orders at fixed prices for every item. and buff mission income. did you even read what i wrote, that it all was about more isk SINKS to adjust the amount of money in the game? i ** you no kiddo, it's like talking to a potted plant about the inner workings of a nuclear power plant -.- Some people are just incapable of comprehending A --> B ---> C therefore A --> C no matter how many times you explain it. I agree with you though, isk sinks are a far better way of moving forward versus nerfing carrier damage by a whopping 20%. I'm not even talking about the changes to rorqs or supercaps either, but hitting carriers that hard is just foolish b/c anyone with an ounce of common sense should know it's not going to move the game any closer to solving the isk saturation issue they say they are trying to correct. PEOPLE WILL JUST USE DIFFERENT SHIPS TO DO THE SAME THING -- I mean come on CCP, don't hit our beloved capitals that hard out the gates. I mean, start small and work your way up--that's basic, how do you miss that?!
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:39:04 - [1319] - Quote Backz Banny wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Backz Banny wrote: so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ***** world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. You're right goon, they do need to nerf bounties by 50% and faction drops by 75% along with fighter nerfs. yeah, and put npc sell orders at fixed prices for every item. and buff mission income. did you even read what i wrote, that it all was about more isk SINKS to adjust the amount of money in the game? i ** you no kiddo, it's like talking to a potted plant about the inner workings of a nuclear power plant -.- I'm agreeing with you that fighter nerfs are needed to curb the goon farming machine. It's ruining the game. So NERF those Fighters CCP ++ - goons agree
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 15	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:39:25 - [1320] - Quote Backz Banny wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Backz Banny wrote: so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ***** world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. You're right goon, they do need to nerf bounties by 50% and faction drops by 75% along with fighter nerfs. yeah, and put npc sell orders at fixed prices for every item. and buff mission income. did you even read what i wrote, that it all was about more isk SINKS to adjust the amount of money in the game? i ** you no kiddo, it's like talking to a potted plant about the inner workings of a nuclear power plant -.- You know, I generally find amusements in comment chains, this one was one of the best so far. Love your line about the potted plant. Anyway, IMO the fighter nerf in paticular is not a PVE nerf rather a PVP one in reality. Gonna make me very sad.

blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:42:24 - [1321] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Backz Banny wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Backz Banny wrote: so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ***** world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. You're right goon, they do need to nerf bounties by 50% and faction drops by 75% along with fighter nerfs. yeah, and put npc sell orders at fixed prices for every item. and buff mission income. did you even read what i wrote, that it all was about more isk SINKS to adjust the amount of money in the game? i ** you no kiddo, it's like talking to a potted plant about the inner workings of a nuclear power plant -.- I'm agreeing with you that fighter nerfs are needed to curb the goon farming machine. It's ruining the game. So NERF those Fighters CCP ++ - goons agree It doesn't hit Goons the hardest, I promise you it's going to hit renting corps and start-up players trying to make their first couple of billions more than a massive, rich alliance with resources galore. It's the lower tier players that are going to be clobbered the most by this, no doubt.
Mestori Anar Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:43:50 - [1322] - Quote If the problem was bounties, wtf are nerfing the ship?!?!?!?! Keep the ship as is, and then do a logarthmic drop for bounties. The higher tick you get, the lower your next tick will be for x amount of time. That way casuals who rat for an hour or so can still get their income while the guys who are truly the 1% of the 1% will see their ticks drop dramatically if they are constantly super ratting. I am nowhere near the 1% of the 1% and these changes absolutely suck.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 83	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:45:07 - [1323] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK. Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016. Same set of graphs: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK. Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game. 600% more ISK entering the game. Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad. Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem. I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though. Your final line was describing yourself? There have been many other suggestions for how to fix it that don't involve destroying Carriers for both PVP and PVE. Two excellent ones are capping tick sizes and diminishing returns on bounty payouts. The latter has the benefit of removing the problem of afk-droneboaters from the ISK stream. The problem isn't the concept that the money stream needs to go (Though the actual net money going into the system is +15T ISK, not 60, but by all means continue to spout the histrionics you were so adamantly against earlier), the problem is the method and demographic targeted. Why don't you try not being a monumental tool and be constructive, rather than just insult people who are justifiably angry by a MASSIVE nerf for which they aren't even necessarily the problem.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 16	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:48:09 - [1324] - Quote Mestori Anar wrote: If the problem was bounties, wtf are nerfing the ship?!?!?!?! Keep the ship as is, and then do a logarthmic drop for bounties. The higher tick you get, the lower your next tick will be for x amount of time. That way casuals who rat for an hour or so can still get their income while the guys who are truly the 1% of the 1% will see their ticks drop dramatically if they are constantly super ratting. I am nowhere near the 1% of the 1% and these changes absolutely suck. I take my thanny out to rat maybe a hour or two at most at a time, and I am NOT even near the 1% of the 1%. I do own a few caps, but its just a carrier, fax, and dread. Now, my carrier I use for both ratting and PVP when it is called for (or when I am not in the mood to dorp the fax or dread) now it can ONLY be used for isk making because TY CCP you just made it so no alliance no matter how big will want to use carriers anymore. They already were the Red Headed Stepchild of caps, now it will be worse.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6594	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:51:25 - [1325] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. Don't believe me, this is precisely why we had stagflation around the early 1970s. There used to be a macro statistical relationship between the inflation rate and unemployment. Higher inflation => lower unemployment. Policy makers used this to try and counter act the business cycle. Problem is people figured out that higher wages and higher prices did not lead to an economic gain. This can be seen by looking at the household/individual's budget constraint: P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH if P(y) and P(x) and w (the price for good y, x and the wage respectively) all double you get: 2P(y)Y + 2P(x)x = 2wH. This can be re-written as: 2[P(y)Y + P(x)x] = 2wH. Basic algebra tells us that the 2's cancel, that is we are, in the end, left with P(y)Y + P(x)x = w*H. That is the original budget constraint. Now once people figure this out--i.e. they no longer suffer from money illusion that inflation-unemployment trade off I talked about disappeared and we ended up with higher inflation and higher unemployment which in turn lead to the political concept known as the misery index. So pull your head out of ass. Edit: To be clear why that post is so freaking stupid. Why don't we do this in real life? Because most people and most leaders of countries do not want to end up like fecking Venezuela or Zimbabwe with run away hyperinflation. I can live with that reasoning, but how do you answer to carriers not being viable for fighting things? That is the trick. Keep them from injecting too much ISK into the game and make them PVP viable. One draconian solution is just keep them out of the anomalies. Somebody else suggested a hull penalty when ratting (note the penalty could be to payouts not the ships functionality). I find both of these rather uninspiring, but probably better than what we have now. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:53:44 - [1326] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: It doesn't hit Goons the hardest, I promise you it's going to hit renting corps and start-up players trying to make their first couple of billions more than a massive, rich alliance with resources galore. It's the lower tier players that are going to be clobbered the most by this, no doubt. Goon cried for drone nerfs time to bring fighters in line cause they are overpowered Time for CCP to nerf fighters
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6594	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:54:30 - [1327] - Quote Isuro Tanaka wrote: Sure seems like a lot of "1 % of 1%" people here...hmmm. Because Quant probably got that wrong. Not literally wrong, in terms of ratters it might be 1% of the 1%, but not everyone who owns a carrier rats in a carrier or even rats to make ISK. I used to own a carrier, rarely ratted in it (and this was back with the old fighters under Dominion sov when I was in IT Alliance...so way back, and the amount of ISK I made was probably less than 200 million ISK). So a nerf like this would screw me over if I still had a carrier even though I am not part of the problem. And to give credit to whom it belongs, this objection was first raised by Surrendermonkey dozens of pages back. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 16	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:54:57 - [1328] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Quote: 600% more ISK entering the game. So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun. Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP. Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right. I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to! You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. Don't believe me, this is precisely why we had stagflation around the early 1970s. There used to be a macro statistical relationship between the inflation rate and unemployment. Higher inflation => lower unemployment. Policy makers used this to try and counter act the business cycle. Problem is people figured out that higher wages and higher prices did not lead to an economic gain. This can be seen by looking at the household/individual's budget constraint: P(y)Y + P(x)x = wH if P(y) and P(x) and w (the price for good y, x and the wage respectively) all double you get: 2P(y)Y + 2P(x)x = 2wH. This can be re-written as: 2[P(y)Y + P(x)x] = 2wH. Basic algebra tells us that the 2's cancel, that is we are, in the end, left with P(y)Y + P(x)x = w*H. That is the original budget constraint. Now once people figure this out--i.e. they no longer suffer from money illusion that inflation-unemployment trade off I talked about disappeared and we ended up with higher inflation and higher unemployment which in turn lead to the political concept known as the misery index. So pull your head out of ass. Edit: To be clear why that post is so freaking stupid. Why don't we do this in real life? Because most people and most leaders of countries do not want to end up like fecking Venezuela or Zimbabwe with run away hyperinflation. I can live with that reasoning, but how do you answer to carriers not being viable for fighting things? That is the trick. Keep them from injecting too much ISK into the game and make them PVP viable. One draconian solution is just keep them out of the anomalies. Somebody else suggested a hull penalty when ratting (note the penalty could be to payouts not the ships functionality). I find both of these rather uninspiring, but probably better than what we have now. What I would like to see is some actual capital sites. Disallow caps from warping to normal anomolies, and add cap only anoms. Make them to the style of sleeper sites, but toned down so they can be solo'd. Also adding in a cap anom that requires more than one, maybe a fax too owuld be fun actually.
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:57:37 - [1329] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: That is the trick. Keep them from injecting too much ISK into the game and make them PVP viable. One draconian solution is just keep them out of the anomalies. Somebody else suggested a hull penalty when ratting (note the penalty could be to payouts not the ships functionality). I find both of these rather uninspiring, but probably better than what we have now. Apparently goon don't need to be concerned about PVP viability cause while camping in a station you'll see little difference
Acend Isagar HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 18:59:34 - [1330] - Quote I started playing this game 3 years ago. At first I had absolutely no ***** clue what I was doing, trained into a wolf bc i thought the ship looked dank, went to lowsec and ofc went boom bc some leet campers had to penetrate me. I was completely shocked and amazed at the same time, then I was hooked and read so much EVE related stuff that I thought my brain would stop working any time. Got into a stratios, joined a corp, found out about new upcoming changes and meta gaming. I then came in touch with a former CSM and my whole EVE journey seemed to be getting better and better and I was very happy with throwing cash down CCP's throat. Then 2 years ago the shitshow slowly started to begin, I always had my niche, from smartbombing to blopsing to wh raping and some changes made me upset, like when I was about to finally get in a dread and live in a C5 wormhole when the drifter patch hit. But you adapt, you try to give feedback and hope the best. I joined da best lowsec Corp SnuffldOut to enjoy some epic content and there was more then a shitton. Dank fights over towers, massive nullsec Tidi when Mittens started going insane with his viceroyal plans and the war with ShadowCartel. Now looking back, the moment everything began to fall apart was with the introduction of Skill Injectors and the **** feature called Citadels. I am not here to tell you something new, but for the first time I feel like we all have been let down by a corporation that used to actually try to provide content. Now we have a cash grabbing bunch of devs that promote asset safety and 100 citadels in every system. With citadels you nearly killed all the aspects of the game I used to enjoy and I was willing to adapt and since SO MANY of your players feel the same I thought changes would come, but instead the insane cash grabbing tactics kept getting into play and now that so many players injected their carrier and rorqual pilots since there is NOTHING else to you just decide to nerf everything and my question is, what then? This so called outrage is not directed to any specific change, it's the fact that you as a company stopped having a vision for this game and are circling around the broken state of the game we have right now instead of implementing the drastic changes that are needed. You don't even have to come up with the solutions, since every half decent player can write you a list of what is wrong in EVE and ideas to fix it, take the ones you like the best and can manage to implement and make a poll for the people to vote and give feedback. I have finally decided to unsubscribe my accounts aswell because there is no reason to play a game with a team of devs so out of touch with their player base. CCP, all we ask is to get your ** together, get an employee to actively interact with the community and maybe after the 2 worst years this game has experienced start to listen to your unbelieveably loyal and invested player base. I love this game more then words can explain and most players feel the same but it just sickens me what your greed is doing with it. I hope this post can atleast change some minds, so we can all start on improving the game together, instead of milking it until the servers go down. I love every single one of you, the best community there is. Fly safe o7

uninstall 01 The Elite Conference CODE. 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:00:03 - [1331] - Quote read my name, do it to the game
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6596	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:01:15 - [1332] - Quote Cismet wrote: Your final line was describing yourself? There have been many other suggestions for how to fix it that don't involve destroying Carriers for both PVP and PVE. No, it was aimed at the idiots suggesting things like: nerf all bounties. That is compounding a bad decision with and even worse one. Or the one's trying to claim that having a 6 fold increase in ISK entering the game is not going to cause problems. Those jerks are literally destroying the purchasing power of everyone else's ISK for their benefit. There is very serious stupid in this thread...stupid from people who don't understand even rudimentary economics. Cismet wrote: Two excellent ones are capping tick sizes and diminishing returns on bounty payouts. The latter has the benefit of removing the problem of afk-droneboaters from the ISK stream. The problem isn't the concept that the money stream needs to go (Though the actual net money going into the system is +15T ISK, not 60, but by all means continue to spout the histrionics you were so adamantly against earlier), the problem is the method and demographic targeted. Why don't you try not being a monumental tool and be constructive, rather than just insult people who are justifiably angry by a MASSIVE nerf for which they aren't even necessarily the problem. Some issues with this: First off if this applies to everyone it is taking a bad idea and compounding it and applying it to those who are not the problem. Second, the cap/diminishing return is not a one and done number. It will have to continuously monitored and changed regularly as players change in game behaviors. Look at my signature, the idea of getting it "just right" even with constant monitoring is going to be problematic. You'll know how much ISK has entered the system, but you won't necessarily know how much is going too, so your policy will always be looking backwards, not forwards. In other words, it assumes a degree of information that nobody possesses not even the Devs. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 11	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:03:04 - [1333] - Quote uninstall 01 wrote: read my name, do it to the game Your permit on CODE. right to exist is long overdue, transfer the isk now or suffer the consequences.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6596	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:03:31 - [1334] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: That is the trick. Keep them from injecting too much ISK into the game and make them PVP viable. One draconian solution is just keep them out of the anomalies. Somebody else suggested a hull penalty when ratting (note the penalty could be to payouts not the ships functionality). I find both of these rather uninspiring, but probably better than what we have now. Apparently goon don't need to be concerned about PVP viability cause while camping in a station you'll see little difference You don't read very well do you? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:04:09 - [1335] - Quote Can we see data charts showing specifically what ships are being used to pull in this isk? yeah we see that bounty payouts skyrocketed (now that you made it easier for players to fly supers and carriers so more people are actually doing it) but i don't see any information on exactly how players are making these bounties. Are titan ratters the real problem but you've gone and lumped them in the same category as carriers? who knows, you're not showing us specific data. I'm skeptical that these changes will sway the incoming amount of isk into the game by a noticeable amount. The changes only seem to increase the time players will have to spend out there ratting each day since you're not exactly presenting any alternative isk sink. In fact you're kind of discouraging the use of these large vessels which will in-turn result is less flown and less lost in combat. Thus adding to the problem of us not having anything fun to take our isk away.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6596	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:05:34 - [1336] - Quote Mestori Anar wrote: If the problem was bounties, wtf are nerfing the ship?!?!?!?! Keep the ship as is, and then do a logarthmic drop for bounties. The higher tick you get, the lower your next tick will be for x amount of time. That way casuals who rat for an hour or so can still get their income while the guys who are truly the 1% of the 1% will see their ticks drop dramatically if they are constantly super ratting. I am nowhere near the 1% of the 1% and these changes absolutely suck. Because bounties were not a problem before the carrier changes. Yes bounties injected alot of ISK, but not to the degree we are seeing now. Prior to the change it was around 40 trillion ISK being injected, not it is nearly 70 trillion ISK. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Fringilla Shepard 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:06:15 - [1337] - Quote Oh crap, why me? I not living in nulls... bye Archon :( I want my drones back! Take of your crappy fighters! -2 subscribers
Mikkhi Kisht Vanity Thy Name Is 25	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:06:32 - [1338] - Quote CCP came for overview icons. Those that cried foul were told, HTFU. CCP forced a new shiny camera on the game client. It's still not as functional as the 'Classic' one was. Those that complained? HTFU or GTFO. Same routine for the probe scanning. Ditto for Nerfs that slammed HighSec 'Scrubs' the hardest (simply due to where game populations tend to pile up). It's suck it up or shove off. Null PvP is the only legit play style in Eve. Skill Injectors and granulated Plex leading the charge to Pay2Win/Excel? Push back against the idea of a quick buck earned rather than long term planning? That it would quickly lead to precarious imbalances ingame? Those are tinfoil rantings, get over it & love the new fast-track to capital ship shinys. Carriers are about to get their taste of the Nerf Bat. Oh no! Not right! Not fair! Not wanted! Myself and others were laughed at when it was our sacred cows getting turned into low grade hamburger. Now it's your ruminate at the chopping block. I'm sorry. I think this is a rotten (and ineffective!) way to solve some problem. That it's heavy handed, mean spirited, and just plain wrong. The problem has solutions, I wonder why the worst one is the one chosen to make live. But I'm going to say to those hollering, wailing, and gnashing a lot of teeth, what I was told when I griped. Evolve or die, HTFU, suck it up or shove off. ** It's a bit different when it's your shiny about to get DXed, huh. Sorry about that. Not much I can do, I'm just a HighSec Scrub.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6596	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:08:03 - [1339] - Quote Backz Banny wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Backz Banny wrote: so, one thing nobody seems to have touched yet: why is there more money? maybe because people became "more productive". just like in the real ***** world, where the available monetary supply has to be increased just because society became more efficient and productive, because there is more stuff being built, faster and more cost effective. You're right goon, they do need to nerf bounties by 50% and faction drops by 75% along with fighter nerfs. yeah, and put npc sell orders at fixed prices for every item. and buff mission income. did you even read what i wrote, that it all was about more isk SINKS to adjust the amount of money in the game? i ** you no kiddo, it's like talking to a potted plant about the inner workings of a nuclear power plant -.- That is another alternative, pump up the sinks. Problem with this though is that it does not necessarily penalizes those who ARE injecting ISK into the system. That new guy looking to buy the battleship skill book is unlikely to be injecting hundreds of billions of ISK into the economy...so why should the cost of the skillbook double so that some guy who has billions of ISK already can go on getting even more? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 11	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:09:35 - [1340] - Quote Aries Stark wrote: Can we see data charts showing specifically what ships are being used to pull in this isk? yeah we see that bounty payouts skyrocketed (now that you made it easier for players to fly supers and carriers so more people are actually doing it) but i don't see any information on exactly how players are making these bounties. Are titan ratters the real problem but you've gone and lumped them in the same category as carriers? who knows, you're not showing us specific data. I'm skeptical that these changes will sway the incoming amount of isk into the game by a noticeable amount. The changes only seem to increase the time players will have to spend out there ratting each day since you're not exactly presenting any alternative isk sink. In fact you're kind of discouraging the use of these large vessels which will in-turn result is less flown and less lost in combat. Thus adding to the problem of us not having anything fun to take our isk away. Supers are more common now that engineering complexes are available. All the boys can have their toys they ever dreamed of. Ratting Titans aren't a thing yet, because they still cost 70bil+.. and you need couple months of supercarrier ratting to reach that. And that takes a lot of effort, which I'm gonna put it in just to get better ticks and enjoy couple of months avoiding nerfhammer until more people reach that level and it starts to bother CCP again.

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6596	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:11:49 - [1341] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP. Goon and surrogates crying again, where did the drone touch you? PVP as in you sitting in your POS bubble cowering goon? Or when your meat shields failed or fled you cowering all over the map station camping? The only thing goon and alts are concerned about is ISK and the RMT they make from it. So go ahead goon, tell us where the drone touched you cause you were all for drone nerfs. Your post is very muddled...on the one hand you are implying that because I am in GSF I am interested in only making ISK. On the other you are implying I hate drones and ratting even though I agree this nerf is probably not the right way to go regarding the flood of ISK flowing into the game and potential bad effects that could have. Maybe you should sit down with an adult and have them help you figure things out. Oh no goon - definition 'stupid person', you cried for drone nerfs cause someone blew up your internet space ship. Now the follow up to the overpowered fighter situation. Just as drones were nerfed, now fighters will come in line with the drone nerfs you cried your eyes out about. Sorry carebear isk farmer, you'll just have to farm harder. I have not cried for drone nerfs. Maybe some Goons have, but then your bigotry is showing. As for the fighter nerf, I agree that there is a problem with regards to the money supply so your ISK farming comment is simple stupid and wrong. I do not agree that the nerf to the PVP side of carriers/supers is warranted. You are just flat out wrong and/or stupid and a bigot too. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Guybrush Threepwoot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:12:55 - [1342] - Quote -4 subscribers Sorry but this patch is realy bull***t!!!
Laenatus ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:15:45 - [1343] - Quote CCPS response to customer feedback: "Shut Up And Let It Happen"
Papa Sotken Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 2233	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:18:47 - [1344] - Quote No Zebra Corp
Darkligh 81 RaTaX Home Defense Union 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:22:16 - [1345] - Quote Seems to me like CCP is clutching at straws on this one. As for this nerf though. It's not really well thought out. I supported the previous carrier nerf as it eliminated AFK Carrier ratting, which I do agree was the right move. I carrier rat to support 2 accounts with my extremely limited play time (Agriculture- so it's 24/7/365, most days I am working 15 hours). The last month or so I have barely managed to sub the accounts due to RL so I guess my eve time is up with a 20% knock to income. Anyway. CCP- have some logic here. You need subs to make the company money, either via PLEX or RL money. PLEX is $19.99 A sub is $14.95 So someone like me ends up paying you an extra $5 per account. However if I cannot afford a plex after the 20% nerf that means you will get $0 per account, so you're counting pennies and loosing pounds and I am sure that is the same for a good few other players. Aside from that If I am going to be forced to cut back on something IRL and pay a sub, it won't be for this game. It would be for someting I could play with the missus. Anyway those are my thoughts. Luckily my carriers insurance runs out just before my next sub. So i guess there's going to be some kills and a carrier loss just now
Green Backs Greens Money Machine 1 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:22:21 - [1346] - Quote i truly believe you guys are trying to completely screw up this game so no one wants to play except alpha accounts ....WHY MAKE SO MANY STUPID CHANGES TO THE GAME LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME ///////////// IF IT ISNT BROKEN DONT FIX IT ..
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:25:14 - [1347] - Quote So, I think this PR blunder has probably cost CCP more in lost subscribers than the supposed supercarrier ratting RMTers.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 16	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:31:53 - [1348] - Quote 1330+ comments by now, vast majority in full disagreement with this nerf, many even sharing potential fixes that are actually good. Dunno what else to say really. Put in my own 2 cents many times now on this thread.
Gabriel Karade Noir. Mercenary Coalition 327	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:40:30 - [1349] - Quote Add a re-spawn cool-down to anomalies, which doesn't have a fixed duration: As NPC losses begin to scale up in a system/constellation over a period of time (measured over 24 hours?), so does the duration of the cool-down. This could keep scaling up to the point where nothing spawns over a significant time period... (i.e. the NPC's have decided to bugger off and live to fight another day) Once NPC losses start to drop over a measured time period in said system/constellation, so does the cool-down duration. If left alone long enough, it would drop back to the original starting value (which could be zero). War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Laenatus ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:45:15 - [1350] - Quote Ezio Sotken wrote: 1330+ comments by now, vast majority in full disagreement with this nerf, many even sharing potential fixes that are actually good. Dunno what else to say really. Put in my own 2 cents many times now on this thread. The whole entirety of the player base could post here saying this is terrible, with a myriad of reasons why, and offer plausible alternatives, and this wouldn't change a thing. CCP refuses to acknowledge its client's issues with how they conduct the game, nor do they have to. This half planned "Fix" is going through and there is nothing we can do about it - outside of unsubscribe and take our friends elsewhere. Even if this happened enough to dip their incomes, i believe they will still continue to make poor decisions, to a terminal end. (aeb recurrent, terrible decisions) It is true insanity by the very definition of the word.

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6597	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:51:20 - [1351] - Quote WhiteOrm wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. CCP Larrikin wrote: This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Nope. You DO get rich this way. Because when small number of players have many ISK it directly makes them rich. It is other players that become relatively poorer from ISK inflation etc. To put it simply you had a chance to become rich by becoming a carrier/super pilot (that is a long shot), but you have that chance no more. Not as a whole you don't. Look at any RL economy where they have resorted to printing money. Wiemar Germany, Zimbabwe, Venezuela today. The latter is particularly instructive as it is turning in to a veritable ** hole. And those few players who do "get rich" they do so by destroying the purchasing power of the rest of the player base and when that ISK starts circulating you end up with inflation, potentially lots of inflation. This can, in turn lead to a feedback loop where more and more people feel like they have to rat in carriers and supers to stay ahead of the inflation which simply makes the situation worse. Having a game like this is not balanced and can be very bad for the long term prospects. Reducing this degree of growth in the money supply MUST** happen. How that reduction in the growth of the money supply happens should be open to debate. The current approach does appear very much to be, at best, ham handed. At worst is will be bad for the game and I would urge CCP to look for an alternative solution even if it is as uninspiring and banal as putting a temporary ban on carriers and supers ratting in NS anomalies. This would preserve the PvP aspects of these ships and address the money supply issue and buy time for finding a better and more thoughtful solution. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 20	Posted - 2017.06.10 19:53:01 - [1352] - Quote Laenatus wrote: Ezio Sotken wrote: 1330+ comments by now, vast majority in full disagreement with this nerf, many even sharing potential fixes that are actually good. Dunno what else to say really. Put in my own 2 cents many times now on this thread. The whole entirety of the player base could post here saying this is terrible, with a myriad of reasons why, and offer plausible alternatives, and this wouldn't change a thing. CCP refuses to acknowledge its client's issues with how they conduct the game, nor do they have to. This half planned "Fix" is going through and there is nothing we can do about it - outside of unsubscribe and take our friends elsewhere. Even if this happened enough to dip their incomes, i believe they will still continue to make poor decisions to a terminal end. (aeb recurrent, terrible decisions) It is true insanity by the very definition of the word. What amazes me the most is that here, in this setting, Co2, Goons, PL, FCON, TEST, everyone else all agree on osmething. Honestly thought the day would never come where I would agree with a PL guy or a Goon guy ( no offense ). For me, the saddest part of this is the destruction of a cap ship class because of "PVE".
Nevase Prometeus Every Man for Himself Fidelas Constans 13	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:01:16 - [1353] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: WhiteOrm wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. CCP Larrikin wrote: This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Nope. You DO get rich this way. Because when small number of players have many ISK it directly makes them rich. It is other players that become relatively poorer from ISK inflation etc. To put it simply you had a chance to become rich by becoming a carrier/super pilot (that is a long shot), but you have that chance no more. Not as a whole you don't. Look at any RL economy where they have resorted to printing money. Wiemar Germany, Zimbabwe, Venezuela today. The latter is particularly instructive as it is turning in to a veritable ** hole. And those few players who do "get rich" they do so by destroying the purchasing power of the rest of the player base and when that ISK starts circulating you end up with inflation, potentially lots of inflation. This can, in turn lead to a feedback loop where more and more people feel like they have to rat in carriers and supers to stay ahead of the inflation which simply makes the situation worse. Having a game like this is not balanced and can be very bad for the long term prospects. Reducing this degree of growth in the money supply MUST** happen. How that reduction in the growth of the money supply happens should be open to debate. The current approach does appear very much to be, at best, ham handed. At worst is will be bad for the game and I would urge CCP to look for an alternative solution even if it is as uninspiring and banal as putting a temporary ban on carriers and supers ratting in NS anomalies. This would preserve the PvP aspects of these ships and address the money supply issue and buy time for finding a better and more thoughtful solution. +1 to this solution . Yes I use carrier for rats but my main purpose of my carrier and super is PVP not rats . You said this nerf is for PVE + ISK problems ok I understood go on do that. But If it had side effect to PVP is another story.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:01:37 - [1354] - Quote Dan Sever wrote: Sassura wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Zero Davahum wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry. The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit. Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored. As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track. I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. However, this change does affect far more than the 1% of the top 1% as CCp Quant seems to suggest. Ofc, casual ratters like myself will only benefit from this nerf. Less isk = lower prices = higher yield for us. Correct me if I'm wrong. less isk = higher prices = higher demand.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 22	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:09:08 - [1355] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: CCP is still quiet. nah, I forget exactly, sure someone has the reddit saved, but a dev said the change really is to hurt the 1% of the 1%. Also speculation in my alliance that CCP really wants to kill carriers from PVP fleets.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:09:22 - [1356] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: WhiteOrm wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: You do not get rich this way. Please learn some basic economics. Increasing the money supply has long been associated with rising prices so that the increase income and the increase in prices cancel each other out. CCP Larrikin wrote: This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Nope. You DO get rich this way. Because when small number of players have many ISK it directly makes them rich. It is other players that become relatively poorer from ISK inflation etc. To put it simply you had a chance to become rich by becoming a carrier/super pilot (that is a long shot), but you have that chance no more. Not as a whole you don't. Look at any RL economy where they have resorted to printing money. Wiemar Germany, Zimbabwe, Venezuela today. The latter is particularly instructive as it is turning in to a veritable ** hole. And those few players who do "get rich" they do so by destroying the purchasing power of the rest of the player base and when that ISK starts circulating you end up with inflation, potentially lots of inflation. This can, in turn lead to a feedback loop where more and more people feel like they have to rat in carriers and supers to stay ahead of the inflation which simply makes the situation worse. Having a game like this is not balanced and can be very bad for the long term prospects. Reducing this degree of growth in the money supply MUST happen. How that reduction in the growth of the money supply happens should be open to debate. The current approach does appear very much to be, at best, ham handed. At worst is will be bad for the game and I would urge CCP to look for an alternative solution even if it is as uninspiring and banal as putting a temporary ban on carriers and supers ratting in NS anomalies. This would preserve the PvP aspects of these ships and address the money supply issue and buy time for finding a better and more thoughtful solution. This - CCP is blindly nerfing without thought or actually working with their player base. Their new investors suck horribly (they should get some love mails maybe?) Right now they are stuck in a panic cycle because of skill injectors. Which if we keep them they should be limited to use only 1 a day to allow CCP time to respond properly to breaking issues instead of blindly nerf bat and ** everyone off.
Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:11:11 - [1357] - Quote Gumby Taron wrote: [quote=Crash 888]how is pvp screwed by this? This really hurts small scale pvp groups and their ability to fight numeric odds using higher SP and isk investment into ships such as carriers and super carriers, and it strengthens large capital heavy alliances such as PL, NC. and GSF who have the numbers to not be affected by the damage cuts. yet its "PL, NC. and GSF " that are most vocal against it
Crash 888 TRINTEX 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:15:24 - [1358] - Quote There's no way a % reduction in some damage could cause this much rage and unsubs. Is this a proxy to release some pent up rage? You've been a loyal fanboi for years, and now only the con dawns on you, that you are nothing but potential consumer for micro transactions? Entirely unstable btw, no one would blame you !
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:17:55 - [1359] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Gumby Taron wrote: [quote=Crash 888]how is pvp screwed by this? This really hurts small scale pvp groups and their ability to fight numeric odds using higher SP and isk investment into ships such as carriers and super carriers, and it strengthens large capital heavy alliances such as PL, NC. and GSF who have the numbers to not be affected by the damage cuts. yet its "PL, NC. and GSF " that are most vocal against it Because they are the largest null sec groups and see the short term effects of poorly planned changes? Isk faucet a problem? Add sinks, remove taps. Don't nerf perfectly good if not underpowered capital ships. (they don't have the teeth should in a pvp fight yet...)
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:21:06 - [1360] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: First off if this applies to everyone it is taking a bad idea and compounding it and applying it to those who are not the problem. Second, the cap/diminishing return is not a one and done number. It will have to continuously monitored and changed regularly as players change in game behaviors. Look at my signature, the idea of getting it "just right" even with constant monitoring is going to be problematic. You'll know how much ISK has entered the system, but you won't necessarily know how much is going too, so your policy will always be looking backwards, not forwards. In other words, it assumes a degree of information that nobody possesses not even the Devs. I agree with the mindless goon surrogate We do need fighter nerfs and they need to be severe we do need bounty nerfs, simply cut them in half.

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6597	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:21:55 - [1361] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Gumby Taron wrote: [quote=Crash 888]how is pvp screwed by this? This really hurts small scale pvp groups and their ability to fight numeric odds using higher SP and isk investment into ships such as carriers and super carriers, and it strengthens large capital heavy alliances such as PL, NC. and GSF who have the numbers to not be affected by the damage cuts. yet its "PL, NC. and GSF " that are most vocal against it Because they are the largest null sec groups and see the short term effects of poorly planned changes? Isk faucet a problem? Add sinks, remove taps. Don't nerf perfectly good if not underpowered capital ships. (they don't have the teeth should in a pvp fight yet...) I disagree on the sinks, those will be hard to balance and will bring additional problems (people seeing a jump in say skill book prices for a problem they did not cause will not sit well). Here is what I wrote earlier as a temporary response.... The current approach does appear very much to be, at best, ham handed. At worst is will be bad for the game and I would urge CCP to look for an alternative solution even if it is as uninspiring and banal as putting a temporary ban on carriers and supers ratting in NS anomalies. This would preserve the PvP aspects of these ships and address the money supply issue and buy time for finding a better and more thoughtful solution. And again: credit where credit is due...the notion that this is heavy handed and not good originates with SurrenderMonkey. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jhousetlin Zamayid 38	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:23:46 - [1362] - Quote HiSec Incursions aren't really a problem. If you look at the amount of ISK printed in different regions, NullSec outshines hisec by many orders of magnitude. Just look at the graphs. Also when an Incursion runner cashes out the LP, he/she deletes ISK from the game. So Incursions also provide a sink. Unlike null ratting.
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:24:20 - [1363] - Quote Cut number of anoms spawned Cut the respawn rate Run an anom, search 3 - 4 jumps to maybe find another repeat
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6599	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:26:17 - [1364] - Quote Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote: HiSec Incursions aren't really a problem. If you look at the amount of ISK printed in different regions, NullSec outshines hisec by many orders of magnitude. Just look at the graphs. Also when an Incursion runner cashes out the LP, he/she deletes ISK from the game. So Incursions also provide a sink. Unlike null ratting. Correct. Last month incursion payouts were 5.8 trillion ISK. LP ISK sinks were a whopping 3.2 trillion or about 55% of the incursion payouts. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:26:40 - [1365] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Gumby Taron wrote: [quote=Crash 888]how is pvp screwed by this? This really hurts small scale pvp groups and their ability to fight numeric odds using higher SP and isk investment into ships such as carriers and super carriers, and it strengthens large capital heavy alliances such as PL, NC. and GSF who have the numbers to not be affected by the damage cuts. yet its "PL, NC. and GSF " that are most vocal against it Because they are the largest null sec groups and see the short term effects of poorly planned changes? Isk faucet a problem? Add sinks, remove taps. Don't nerf perfectly good if not underpowered capital ships. (they don't have the teeth should in a pvp fight yet...) I disagree on the sinks, those will be hard to balance and will bring additional problems (people seeing a jump in say skill book prices for a problem they did not cause will not sit well). Here is what I wrote earlier as a temporary response.... The current approach does appear very much to be, at best, ham handed. At worst is will be bad for the game and I would urge CCP to look for an alternative solution even if it is as uninspiring and banal as putting a temporary ban on carriers and supers ratting in NS anomalies. This would preserve the PvP aspects of these ships and address the money supply issue and buy time for finding a better and more thoughtful solution. And again: credit where credit is due...the notion that this is heavy handed and not good originates with SurrenderMonkey. We desperately need more sinks in the game - the easiest way to balance additional sinks is make more items vanity and bpc available from LP + ISK and make bounties payout isk + lp normally (in smaller isk quantities.) The next sink is to restore / increase admin costs for alliances in the way of Concord Fees, or of NPC only resources that are needed to feed citadels. Both of these target the sink problem and target the accumulation of wealth while maintaining easy balance handles to adjust as player behavior changes. The third sink could be finally moving implants over to player construction - and again have the bpc / parts for them be NPC isk + lp rewards. We have GOOD options. Lets take them.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6599	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:28:03 - [1366] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Cut number of anoms spawned Cut the respawn rate Run an anom, search 3 - 4 jumps to maybe find another repeat And why should people not ratting in carriers and supers have their game nerfed? Oh, and deflation is BadGäó too. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ju'Kan KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:28:24 - [1367] - Quote I just realized.. Not that it was perfect back in the day, but CCP used to have an actual Economist in their employ.. He left back in '14. The economy has gone to heck in a hand basket since then. Coincidence?
Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:28:51 - [1368] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Gumby Taron wrote: [quote=Crash 888]how is pvp screwed by this? This really hurts small scale pvp groups and their ability to fight numeric odds using higher SP and isk investment into ships such as carriers and super carriers, and it strengthens large capital heavy alliances such as PL, NC. and GSF who have the numbers to not be affected by the damage cuts. yet its "PL, NC. and GSF " that are most vocal against it Because they are the largest null sec groups and see the short term effects of poorly planned changes? Isk faucet a problem? Add sinks, remove taps. Don't nerf perfectly good if not underpowered capital ships. (they don't have the teeth should in a pvp fight yet...) because it affects their ability to print ISK (or their pets that pay premium ISK to rat in carriers and supers), and not so much because it will affect their pvp abiity.
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 26	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:32:28 - [1369] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: First off if this applies to everyone it is taking a bad idea and compounding it and applying it to those who are not the problem. Second, the cap/diminishing return is not a one and done number. It will have to continuously monitored and changed regularly as players change in game behaviors. Look at my signature, the idea of getting it "just right" even with constant monitoring is going to be problematic. You'll know how much ISK has entered the system, but you won't necessarily know how much is going too, so your policy will always be looking backwards, not forwards. In other words, it assumes a degree of information that nobody possesses not even the Devs. I agree with the mindless goon surrogate We do need fighter nerfs and they need to be severe we do need bounty nerfs, simply cut them in half. Have you ever even flown a capital in PvP?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6599	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:32:57 - [1370] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: We desperately need more sinks in the game - the easiest way to balance additional sinks is make more items vanity and bpc available from LP + ISK and make bounties payout isk + lp normally (in smaller isk quantities.) The next sink is to restore / increase admin costs for alliances in the way of Concord Fees, or of NPC only resources that are needed to feed citadels. Both of these target the sink problem and target the accumulation of wealth while maintaining easy balance handles to adjust as player behavior changes. The third sink could be finally moving implants over to player construction - and again have the bpc / parts for them be NPC isk + lp rewards. We have GOOD options. Lets take them. Up until recently the amount of ISK being added to the economy was not that large. In fact, in looking at the price indices there is very little overall inflation in the game...for now. And if the sinks are over done then there is a risk of deflation which is also bad, especially if it is too large. We don't want to see-saw back and forth between too much ISK entering the system then too little and so forth. Maybe we need more sinks, but in the last few months I would have said no. And I'm not inclined to include more ISK because more ISK is entering the system. The people paying into those sinks won't necessarily be the one's bringing in the ISK. So we'd have some players getting a buff and others a nerf and while the system as a whole might be balanced, from an individual perspective it probably won't look that way. And at the end of the day, it is the individual perspective that matters...as it is individuals who decide to stay or leave the game. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Jhousetlin Zamayid 39	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:34:32 - [1371] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: We desperately need more sinks in the game - the easiest way to balance additional sinks is make more items vanity and bpc available from LP + ISK and make bounties payout isk + lp normally (in smaller isk quantities.) The next sink is to restore / increase admin costs for alliances in the way of Concord Fees, or of NPC only resources that are needed to feed citadels. Both of these target the sink problem and target the accumulation of wealth while maintaining easy balance handles to adjust as player behavior changes. The third sink could be finally moving implants over to player construction - and again have the bpc / parts for them be NPC isk + lp rewards. We have GOOD options. Lets take them. Up until recently the amount of ISK being added to the economy was not that large. In fact, in looking at the price indices there is very little overall inflation in the game...for now. And if the sinks are over done then there is a risk of deflation which is also bad, especially if it is too large. We don't want to see-saw back and forth between too much ISK entering the system then too little and so forth. Maybe we need more sinks, but in the last few months I would have said no. And I'm not inclined to include more ISK because more ISK is entering the system. The people paying into those sinks won't necessarily be the one's bringing in the ISK. So we'd have some players getting a buff and others a nerf and while the system as a whole might be balanced, from an individual perspective it probably won't look that way. And at the end of the day, it is the individual perspective that matters...as it is individuals who decide to stay or leave the game. CCP hire this man.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:34:42 - [1372] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Cut number of anoms spawned Cut the respawn rate Run an anom, search 3 - 4 jumps to maybe find another repeat And why should people not ratting in carriers and supers have their game nerfed? Oh, and deflation is BadGäó too. That problem is more along the lines of we need special sites that are designed for caps and regular anoms should prolly get gates. This way risk / reward can be balanced on the farming more easily.
Albert Roidesbelges TunDraGon Shadow Cartel 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:38:49 - [1373] - Quote well i guess after 7 years you force my hand and i'll close my 4 accounts on Tuesday right before albion online is comming out thx ;)
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6602	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:39:21 - [1374] - Quote Ezio Sotken wrote: Ju'Kan wrote: I just realized.. Not that it was perfect back in the day, but CCP used to have an actual Economist in their employ.. He left back in '14. The economy has gone to heck in a hand basket since then. Coincidence? If I remember right, it was not just one economist, but a whole team of them. There was one economist that we know of. And yeah, he left when he was offered to head up a university there in Iceland. I would not be surprised if a number of CCP Devs have some backgrounds in economics. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:42:11 - [1375] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: We desperately need more sinks in the game - the easiest way to balance additional sinks is make more items vanity and bpc available from LP + ISK and make bounties payout isk + lp normally (in smaller isk quantities.) The next sink is to restore / increase admin costs for alliances in the way of Concord Fees, or of NPC only resources that are needed to feed citadels. Both of these target the sink problem and target the accumulation of wealth while maintaining easy balance handles to adjust as player behavior changes. The third sink could be finally moving implants over to player construction - and again have the bpc / parts for them be NPC isk + lp rewards. We have GOOD options. Lets take them. Up until recently the amount of ISK being added to the economy was not that large. In fact, in looking at the price indices there is very little overall inflation in the game...for now. And if the sinks are over done then there is a risk of deflation which is also bad, especially if it is too large. We don't want to see-saw back and forth between too much ISK entering the system then too little and so forth. Maybe we need more sinks, but in the last few months I would have said no. And I'm not inclined to include more ISK sinks because more ISK is entering the system. The people paying into those sinks won't necessarily be the one's bringing in the ISK. So we'd have some players getting a buff and others a nerf and while the system as a whole might be balanced, from an individual perspective it probably won't look that way. And at the end of the day, it is the individual perspective that matters...as it is individuals who decide to stay or leave the game. I don't disagree that deflation is bad too. Adding sinks is good - it should be slow tho instead of like the current nerf wiffleball. I do agree that isk will have transport from the earners to the sinks - it already has to tho - like any economy. What we are really seeing is more isk and ore coming in without a matching increase in ships burnt because we can't go get good fights reasonably and their is little reason to try and evict people from their space.... So the markets have turned to hoarding and accumulation. We also see simple migrations of people using injectors to move isk bots into whatever happens to be the best paying job right now - and doing so in hours because they can use injectors without limits, which forces a panic nerf in response. Still what is proposed in this patch isn't a fix for any of the actual issues - it only bandaides the symptom, which is wealth is accumulating in the hands of a few elites with enough RL $ to buy into anything they want in this game.
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:44:09 - [1376] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: That problem is more along the lines of we need special sites that are designed for caps and regular anoms should prolly get gates. This way risk / reward can be balanced on the farming more easily. Fighter nerfs gated anoms restricted to subcaps reduced bounties reduced faction drops reduce number of anoms reduce the respawn rate of anoms good job everyone, ccp has what they need now
Anton Vereshchagin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:46:30 - [1377] - Quote I think the best way to handle this is to not nerf the fighters, but to increase the defenses against fighters by the NPC fleets. That is, if the reason for doing this is because Carriers are earning enormous bounties on NPC sites. On the other hand, if this is also about reducing the defensive capabilities of citadels so certain alliances and coalitions can conquer new territories, then never mind.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:47:14 - [1378] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Cut number of anoms spawned Cut the respawn rate Run an anom, search 3 - 4 jumps to maybe find another repeat And why should people not ratting in carriers and supers have their game nerfed? Oh, and deflation is BadGäó too. That problem is more along the lines of we need special sites that are designed for caps and regular anoms should prolly get gates. This way risk / reward can be balanced on the farming more easily. There we go, yet another possible solution that could be looked into. I really wish CCP would not implement this change and make a new announcement along the lines of: 1. Too much ISK is entering the economy. 2. It is carriers and supers, so regrettably we are going to prevent them from ratting in the next patch. 3. BUT THIS IS TEMPORARY, so we can get a better handle on how to fix the situation. 4. Sorry, we kinda messed up. Please offer helpful suggestions in this thread. This exactly - All the players really want is to be meaningfully consulted on what is the greatest experiment in cooperative game development the world has ever seen. We don't like being treated like WoW players - if we did we'd play WoW. We aren't however WoW players - and many of us have spent a decade or more in the sandbox helping it grow and evolve - and don't appreciate CCP forgetting how to have meaningful development discussions with the players.
Moor Deybe Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass 47	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:49:23 - [1379] - Quote If the problem is too much ISK coming from null sec ratting, isn't the solution to provide a compelling equivalent ISK sink for all that ISK? Too effective in PVP? Isn't there supposed to be a rock for every pair of scissors in this game? Why not increase the effectiveness of the carriers' counter in PVP? This seems like a very lazy change that reduces the amount of fun that flying carriers can be. I suppose we could always go back to the days when carriers dropped flights of drones, did a couple of Sanctums, then docked up again. The problem with changes like this is, that when the game becomes less fun, people log in less frequently and then all of sudden they haven't logged in for weeks, then months then........
Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:51:48 - [1380] - Quote the answer to this, at least for me is simple. I am now unsubbed. When CCP stops shitting on every decision I make to try and better my position in the game, then perhaps I'll be back. Is it just me or does anybody else think CCP needs a massive sea change in it's leadership?

Moor Deybe Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass 47	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:55:52 - [1381] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: This exactly - All the players really want is to be meaningfully consulted on what is the greatest experiment in cooperative game development the world has ever seen. We don't like being treated like WoW players - if we did we'd play WoW. We aren't however WoW players - and many of us have spent a decade or more in the sandbox helping it grow and evolve - and don't appreciate CCP forgetting how to have meaningful development discussions with the players. Good point. Have the CSM been asked for their input on this "carrier problem"?
Alexksey Buldakov Pacific Legion Shadow of xXDEATHXx 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:57:00 - [1382] - Quote When we and price changes on BSH aroused strong dissatisfaction of some players, which is why from Friday at the memorial near the station Jita 4-4 is going from 50 to 100 players at a time, trying to protest against the updates of the last weeks, the server drops and bugs.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 20:59:53 - [1383] - Quote Moor Deybe wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: This exactly - All the players really want is to be meaningfully consulted on what is the greatest experiment in cooperative game development the world has ever seen. We don't like being treated like WoW players - if we did we'd play WoW. We aren't however WoW players - and many of us have spent a decade or more in the sandbox helping it grow and evolve - and don't appreciate CCP forgetting how to have meaningful development discussions with the players. Good point. Have the CSM been asked for their input on this "carrier problem"? They were not consulted on any of the last several patch changes from what I've been led to understand. The CSM has pretty much turned into a shallow showpiece with little input and primarily the concerns of alliances and not players.
Ian Hestia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:02:45 - [1384] - Quote Albert Roidesbelges wrote: well i guess after 7 years you force my hand and i'll close my 4 accounts on Tuesday right before albion online is comming out thx ;) Same here! Waiting for Albion Online now. Since this "epic" change on the Carriers.
Pesadel0 Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc. 130	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:04:26 - [1385] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Moor Deybe wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: This exactly - All the players really want is to be meaningfully consulted on what is the greatest experiment in cooperative game development the world has ever seen. We don't like being treated like WoW players - if we did we'd play WoW. We aren't however WoW players - and many of us have spent a decade or more in the sandbox helping it grow and evolve - and don't appreciate CCP forgetting how to have meaningful development discussions with the players. Good point. Have the CSM been asked for their input on this "carrier problem"? They were not consulted on any of the last several patch changes from what I've been led to understand. The CSM has pretty much turned into a shallow showpiece with little input and primarily the concerns of alliances and not players. Maybe you should check the front page then . lol
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:07:16 - [1386] - Quote Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted. I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 588	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:07:25 - [1387] - Quote Cap pve should have had cap with anomalies designed for cap pve to begin with... From what I remember, from past arguments, the isk injectors were meant only to give new characters the possibility to catch up with veterans, their efficiency being reduced for people with large amounts of sp... Not sure how long does it take to train a super pilot but perhaps the training scheme or number of skills required to pilot a cap should go through a tunning. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:10:08 - [1388] - Quote Longtooth wrote: the answer to this, at least for me is simple. I am now unsubbed. another 'i'm going to tell my mommy post' I unsub every month whiny baby bio or it doesn't count for anything
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:11:29 - [1389] - Quote Next thing, they'll sell their MMO to Disney.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 588	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:12:10 - [1390] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted. I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden. I think the graphs with the huge amount of trillions of enerated isk forced them to come up with this unannounced sollution. Trillions of isk that can be reinvested in isk injectors generating even more pve super pilots. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato

blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:12:58 - [1391] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted. I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden. I remember, but those days are gone. Now we have more arrogant administrators that evidently run the game like they're roleplaying Amarrian slavemasters passing down decrees to the lowly surf-players beneath them. A 20% nerf should go down as one of the greatest nerfs to any class, in any game, ever. And if you try carriers out on the test servers, they are seriously under-powered now.
Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:14:00 - [1392] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Longtooth wrote: the answer to this, at least for me is simple. I am now unsubbed. another 'i'm going to tell my mommy post' I unsub every month whiny baby bio or it doesn't count for anything Post with your main or stfu ;)
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 241	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:19:27 - [1393] - Quote Sounds like a good incentive to get people to carebear in wh's instead, so i like it! The big imbalance since the hughe increase in saftey in null since citadels needs to be fixed off even more! No local in null sec would fix everything!
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 6	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:21:06 - [1394] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mestori Anar wrote: If the problem was bounties, wtf are nerfing the ship?!?!?!?! Keep the ship as is, and then do a logarthmic drop for bounties. The higher tick you get, the lower your next tick will be for x amount of time. That way casuals who rat for an hour or so can still get their income while the guys who are truly the 1% of the 1% will see their ticks drop dramatically if they are constantly super ratting. I am nowhere near the 1% of the 1% and these changes absolutely suck. Because bounties were not a problem before the carrier changes. Yes bounties injected alot of ISK, but not to the degree we are seeing now. Prior to the change it was around 40 trillion ISK being injected, not it is nearly 70 trillion ISK. Maybe it has something to do with adding skill injectors... Then players use end-game ships to rat, because there isn't other profitable/meaningful content available.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:25:41 - [1395] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted. I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden. I think the graphs with the huge amount of trillions of enerated isk forced them to come up with this unannounced sollution. Trillions of isk that can be reinvested in isk injectors generating even more pve super pilots. It's a panic nerf brought on by poor foresight and not consulting the players and working closely with them at large. Any decent designer should have foreseen this issue with skill injects, and we as a player base (and CCP) have known about the lack of isk sinks since we actually had a real economist working with us (I miss his posts too). We have literally had YEARS to deal with the fact empires pay bounties out of thin air and we've never had close to a balanced amount of isk sinks to destroy that isk generated. It has always been a problem, it's just gone from a steady inflation to a rapid inflation with the ability to instantly train into whatever faucet you want to tap if you can get the resources ($$$). This means it's no longer a multi-month process for an elite to switch gears and tap a faucet or expand a faucet tap. The changes proposed in patch aren't going to fix that - just buy a little time at the expense of every player. We need real solutions. Many have been proposed some of the best include closing the isk cycle so that bounties come from taxes - and then IF isk starts running low more can be secretly added to the pool behind the curtains.
Trajan Unknown Deep Axion 146	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:26:51 - [1396] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Great changes I agree with Suitonia? Is this some crazy parallel universe?
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 26	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:27:22 - [1397] - Quote Moor Deybe wrote: Too effective in PVP? Isn't there supposed to be a rock for every pair of scissors in this game? Why not increase the effectiveness of the carriers' counter in PVP? The funny part is that the current counters are actually so effective that they almost need a nerf. Unfortunately, most of the "elite small gang" crowd that usually tends to cry about carriers in PvP, prefers to whine for them to be nerfed instead of using readily available counters like bringing one jamming ship on an alt.
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:28:30 - [1398] - Quote Longtooth wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Longtooth wrote: the answer to this, at least for me is simple. I am now unsubbed. another 'i'm going to tell my mommy post' I unsub every month whiny baby bio or it doesn't count for anything Post with your main or stfu ;) I'm telling my mommy, i'm not playing with you, waahahahahahahaaaaa more tears goon surrogate
Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:31:49 - [1399] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Longtooth wrote: Devon Stone wrote: Longtooth wrote: the answer to this, at least for me is simple. I am now unsubbed. another 'i'm going to tell my mommy post' I unsub every month whiny baby bio or it doesn't count for anything Post with your main or stfu ;) I'm telling my mommy, i'm not playing with you, waahahahahahahaaaaa more tears goon surrogate Lol I'm a goon surrogate because I choose to vote with my wallet? You should stay away from the crack man...word on the street is it kills
Stella Arcady Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:33:06 - [1400] - Quote You say people are multiboxing carriers and super carriers to an extent that breaks isk faucet into game. We say fighters are too easily killed in PVP and to a lesser extent in PVE against non-BS targets. You say fighters need to be targeted more. My two-step catch-all semi-solution I propose to partially address all this? It will Increase the APM by carriers particularly supercarriers to manage their fighters. Give all fighter classes some sort of new defensive ability, a 4th activated ability - either on charge or CD (or both). Like 90% reduction in signature radius for 10s, or maybe 75% gain to resists for 8s. Could have it vary from class to class. Managing this will up the APM to rat and not lose fighters (assuming the NPC targeting boost goes through). Secondly - a new class of support fighters to be pro-fighter support. These allow nearby fighters (or targeted friendly fighters) to receive substantial defensive boosts like buffer shield ect. This most importantly allows players greater choice between defense and offense, opening up a wider sandbox. Third, widen the highslot array for carriers. Make a new activated module (maybe unique, same type as networked sensor) that does some sort of fighter boost.

Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 7	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:35:38 - [1401] - Quote Stella Arcady wrote: You say people are multiboxing carriers and super carriers to an extent that breaks isk faucet into game. We say fighters are too easily killed in PVP and to a lesser extent in PVE against non-BS targets. You say fighters need to be targeted more. My two-step catch-all semi-solution I propose to partially address all this? It will Increase the APM by carriers particularly supercarriers to manage their fighters. Give all fighter classes some sort of new defensive ability, a 4th activated ability - either on charge or CD (or both). Like 90% reduction in signature radius for 10s, or maybe 75% gain to resists for 8s. Could have it vary from class to class. Managing this will up the APM to rat and not lose fighters (assuming the NPC targeting boost goes through). Secondly - a new class of support fighters to be pro-fighter support. These allow nearby fighters (or targeted friendly fighters) to receive substantial defensive boosts like buffer shield ect. This most importantly allows players greater choice between defense and offense, opening up a wider sandbox. Third, widen the highslot array for carriers. Make a new activated module (maybe unique, same type as networked sensor) that does some sort of fighter boost. or they could just stop perpetrating the entire screw job to begin with. Think along the lines of Don't start no **, won't be no **.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 35	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:36:20 - [1402] - Quote Sorry...im late... was looking for another game... Did we get any response from CCP?
Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:37:21 - [1403] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Sorry...im late... was looking for another game... Did we get any response from CCP? No I don't think we have. But, then again, is anybody really surprised by CCP silence?
mrammo Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:44:25 - [1404] - Quote Supers already suck at pvp. No one uses supers to win a battle. They are only getting used if you already won a battle to further insult the enemy. That is a horrible status and you are making it even worse.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 589	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:44:57 - [1405] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted. I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden. I think the graphs with the huge amount of trillions of enerated isk forced them to come up with this unannounced sollution. Trillions of isk that can be reinvested in isk injectors generating even more pve super pilots. It's a panic nerf brought on by poor foresight and not consulting the players and working closely with them at large. Any decent designer should have foreseen this issue with skill injects, and we as a player base (and CCP) have known about the lack of isk sinks since we actually had a real economist working with us (I miss his posts too). We have literally had YEARS to deal with the fact empires pay bounties out of thin air and we've never had close to a balanced amount of isk sinks to destroy that isk generated. It has always been a problem, it's just gone from a steady inflation to a rapid inflation with the ability to instantly train into whatever faucet you want to tap if you can get the resources ($$$). This means it's no longer a multi-month process for an elite to switch gears and tap a faucet or expand a faucet tap. The changes proposed in patch aren't going to fix that - just buy a little time at the expense of every player. We need real solutions. Many have been proposed some of the best include closing the isk cycle so that bounties come from taxes - and then IF isk starts running low more can be secretly added to the pool behind the curtains. I agree that it is a panic nerf but perhaps the end game means are too easy to handle? Just how much skill (not skills) is required from a pilot to operate these end game means. Never been interested in caps but I can imagine anyone can pilot those, given the trained skills and isk to sit in them, otherwise there wouldn't be such a sudden isk inflation. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Devon Stone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:46:33 - [1406] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Sorry...im late... was looking for another game... Did we get any response from CCP? bubble witch is the perfect game for a care bear goon that fled their systems without a fight and cowered in POS bubbles and npc stsations. Fighter nerfs gated anoms restricted to subcaps reduced bounties reduced faction drops reduce number of anoms reduce the respawn rate of anoms all for the care bear coward goon that cried for drone nerfs
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 43	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:48:45 - [1407] - Quote Longtooth wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Sorry...im late... was looking for another game... Did we get any response from CCP? No I don't think we have. But, then again, is anybody really surprised by CCP silence? Ultimately, I don't care if they answer, as long as they get their heads out of their asses....both for this nerf and for future 'genius' decisions.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6602	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:48:54 - [1408] - Quote Another suggestion I saw elsewhere... Add a resist bonus to rats when taking damage from fighters. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:49:20 - [1409] - Quote Devon Stone wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Sorry...im late... was looking for another game... Did we get any response from CCP? bubble witch is the perfect game for a care bear goon that fled their systems without a fight and cowered in POS bubbles and npc stsations. Fighter nerfs gated anoms restricted to subcaps reduced bounties reduced faction drops reduce number of anoms reduce the respawn rate of anoms all for the care bear coward goon that cried for drone nerfs Hawt, I'mma go play me some bubble witch and pw0nz0rz. Who do I have to contact to build me a super bubble and how much?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6602	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:50:50 - [1410] - Quote Chevy Caputtos wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Mestori Anar wrote: If the problem was bounties, wtf are nerfing the ship?!?!?!?! Keep the ship as is, and then do a logarthmic drop for bounties. The higher tick you get, the lower your next tick will be for x amount of time. That way casuals who rat for an hour or so can still get their income while the guys who are truly the 1% of the 1% will see their ticks drop dramatically if they are constantly super ratting. I am nowhere near the 1% of the 1% and these changes absolutely suck. Because bounties were not a problem before the carrier changes. Yes bounties injected alot of ISK, but not to the degree we are seeing now. Prior to the change it was around 40 trillion ISK being injected, not it is nearly 70 trillion ISK. Maybe it has something to do with adding skill injectors... Then players use end-game ships to rat, because there isn't other profitable/meaningful content available. I doubt it. Skill injectors have been around for quite sometime. It is most likely due to changes to carriers and supers. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Xiaodown Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 107	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:50:58 - [1411] - Quote Why is there so much isk? http://i.imgur.com/0oJO5xQ.jpg :thinking:
Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:52:33 - [1412] - Quote C0ATL wrote: Longtooth wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Sorry...im late... was looking for another game... Did we get any response from CCP? No I don't think we have. But, then again, is anybody really surprised by CCP silence? Ultimately, I don't care if they answer, as long as they get their heads out of their asses....both for this nerf and for future 'genius' decisions. I think you can file CCP removing their heads from their asses as "never going to happen" I mean after all have you seen some of the genius moves they've pulled over the years? I do really think CCP leadership needs a massive shake up starting at the top and working down until we start getting to people who actually know how to take care of this game. If, that is, any such people are left at this company.
Vendoor Zenjarr HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:54:02 - [1413] - Quote Just here to say it's not the 1% of the 1% of the players who are affected. Nerfing is never a good answer to a problem, you could for example change the bounty payouts. I would suggest you (CCP) stop EVERYTHING and start reading the forums/ reddit. Read what your playerbase want's and start fixing those issue's. Stop doing new stuff (like pushing out skinns every single ******* week).
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:57:08 - [1414] - Quote Vendoor Zenjarr wrote: Just here to say it's not the 1% of the 1% of the players who are affected. Nerfing is never a good answer to a problem, you could for example change the bounty payouts. I would suggest you (CCP) stop EVERYTHING and start reading the forums/ reddit. Read what your playerbase want's and start fixing those issue's. Stop doing new stuff (like pushing out skinns every single ******* week). Such as $30 charcoal-dipped banana skins...
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6602	Posted - 2017.06.10 21:58:29 - [1415] - Quote Vendoor Zenjarr wrote: Just here to say it's not the 1% of the 1% of the players who are affected. Nerfing is never a good answer to a problem, you could for example change the bounty payouts. I would suggest you (CCP) stop EVERYTHING and start reading the forums/ reddit. Read what your playerbase want's and start fixing those issue's. Stop doing new stuff (like pushing out skinns every single ******* week). You aren't the only one out there ratting you know. Perhaps if you pulled your nose away from your particular tree and looked around a bit more.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory. 12	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:01:11 - [1416] - Quote Gabriel Karade wrote: The root cause to your problem, is NPC's sitting in one place to be farmed to the extreme. Conceptually, why would any military organisation keep on feeding meat into the grinder once it becomes clear it's hopeless? (i.e. make NPC activity dynamic, so that they gradually 'give up' and leave an area, moving elsewhere) NPCs are what keep me subbing: they don't commit to aggressing your stuff and will warp off if you bring too much help; they only call in reinforcements in combat sites and the newer scripted events. It isn't so much meat grinder, but the method to npc madness is slowly but surely changing.
Wolf theQuarrelsome STK Scientific The Initiative. 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:04:31 - [1417] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted. I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden. I think the graphs with the huge amount of trillions of enerated isk forced them to come up with this unannounced sollution. Trillions of isk that can be reinvested in isk injectors generating even more pve super pilots. It's a panic nerf brought on by poor foresight and not consulting the players and working closely with them at large. Any decent designer should have foreseen this issue with skill injects, and we as a player base (and CCP) have known about the lack of isk sinks since we actually had a real economist working with us (I miss his posts too). We have literally had YEARS to deal with the fact empires pay bounties out of thin air and we've never had close to a balanced amount of isk sinks to destroy that isk generated. It has always been a problem, it's just gone from a steady inflation to a rapid inflation with the ability to instantly train into whatever faucet you want to tap if you can get the resources ($$$). This means it's no longer a multi-month process for an elite to switch gears and tap a faucet or expand a faucet tap. The changes proposed in patch aren't going to fix that - just buy a little time at the expense of every player. We need real solutions. Many have been proposed some of the best include closing the isk cycle so that bounties come from taxes - and then IF isk starts running low more can be secretly added to the pool behind the curtains. I agree that it is a panic nerf but perhaps the end game means are too easy to handle? Just how much skill (not skills) is required from a pilot to operate these end game means. Never been interested in caps but I can imagine anyone can pilot those, given the trained skills and isk to sit in them, otherwise there wouldn't be such a sudden isk inflation.
LordShazbot Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation 78	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:12:52 - [1418] - Quote I don't like these changes. Down with this sort of thing!
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 589	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:17:00 - [1419] - Quote Wolf theQuarrelsome wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: I agree that it is a panic nerf but perhaps the end game means are too easy to handle? Just how much skill (not skills) is required from a pilot to operate these end game means. Never been interested in caps but I can imagine anyone can pilot those, given the trained skills and isk to sit in them, otherwise there wouldn't be such a sudden isk inflation. Stupid forum ate my reply... Carriers are for normal people 1 per person to farm. Those who don't are either super skilled people or cheating with stealth input broadcasting. Rorqs however stack a little too easily while multiboxing. However the graphs show carriers responsible for the isk influx. Even if there are other factors that stack. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:17:06 - [1420] - Quote LordShazbot wrote: I don't like these changes. Down with this sort of thing! Very, very few people like these changes b/c they are far too much, too soon. What's worse is that they tried to roll this out just days before the patch like some kind of an after-thought instead of coming to the community and giving us an opportunity to test for, plan, and talk about the pros and cons of such a move. CCP should be ashamed for becoming such a good example of bad developer-client communication.

Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 28	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:17:12 - [1421] - Quote Chevy Caputtos wrote: This PR blunder has probably cost CCP more in lost subscribers than the supposed supercarrier ratting RMTers. My subscription will not continue much longer if CCP continues to mistake ignoring players for knowing better. Seriously, what other company would alienate their highest paying and most invested players? Much less reply to a paying customer's inquiries by calling them an "edgelord" and posting cat pictures. Your second picture can't be real... How on earth they even dear to disrepect us like that?
Aeon Herzog New Solstice The Insurrection. 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:22:34 - [1422] - Quote This is a late as hell April Fools right? Or are you just that inane.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 83	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:29:21 - [1423] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Cismet wrote: Your final line was describing yourself? There have been many other suggestions for how to fix it that don't involve destroying Carriers for both PVP and PVE. No, it was aimed at the idiots suggesting things like: nerf all bounties. That is compounding a bad decision with and even worse one. Or the one's trying to claim that having a 6 fold increase in ISK entering the game is not going to cause problems. Those jerks are literally destroying the purchasing power of everyone else's ISK for their benefit. There is very serious stupid in this thread...stupid from people who don't understand even rudimentary economics. Cismet wrote: Two excellent ones are capping tick sizes and diminishing returns on bounty payouts. The latter has the benefit of removing the problem of afk-droneboaters from the ISK stream. The problem isn't the concept that the money stream needs to go (Though the actual net money going into the system is +15T ISK, not 60, but by all means continue to spout the histrionics you were so adamantly against earlier), the problem is the method and demographic targeted. Why don't you try not being a monumental tool and be constructive, rather than just insult people who are justifiably angry by a MASSIVE nerf for which they aren't even necessarily the problem. Some issues with this: First off if this applies to everyone it is taking a bad idea and compounding it and applying it to those who are not the problem. Second, the cap/diminishing return is not a one and done number. It will have to continuously monitored and changed regularly as players change in game behaviors. Look at my signature, the idea of getting it "just right" even with constant monitoring is going to be problematic. You'll know how much ISK has entered the system, but you won't necessarily know how much is going too, so your policy will always be looking backwards, not forwards. In other words, it assumes a degree of information that nobody possesses not even the Devs. As it stands right now this is being applied to large numbers of people who are not the problem. Nothing is a one and done number either and everything CCP does requires monitoring, changing and refined as player behaviour changes. The point is that a diminishing returns (or cap, though I would favour the diminishing returns). CCP look backwards constantly because until the data is in and it can be seen how much has entered the system you can't make any adjustments. There's no way other than looking backwards. A diminishing returns after a certain point leaves people who will be subcap ratting largely alone and only players beyond a certain point in a given day would be affected. I agree that it would require work and refinement but it has to be better than a straight 20%/30% nerf with (seemingly) no further consideration of the greater effects this would have. My point is that no solution is a one/done number. If that's the aim then we may as well stop now as no game ever stops, they always require monitoring etc.
Legbeard Catfood KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:35:51 - [1424] - Quote Don't nerf our ratting ability, give us something to do instead of ratting all day.
GROUND XERO Rennfeuer Project.Mayhem. 15	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:36:11 - [1425] - Quote So ccp is crying about iskies... - where is most ratting? - who is using most ratting carriers and supers? - where is most mining? -where is most production? - oh where spawned the new titan thinngy (aka pirate faction Titan)?.,... is it all in goon space? Why not just nerf goons? NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 590	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:40:29 - [1426] - Quote GROUND XERO wrote: So ccp is crying about iskies... - where is most ratting? - who is using most ratting carriers and supers? - where is most mining? -where is most production? - oh where spawned the new titan thinngy (aka pirate faction Titan)?.,... is it all in goon space? Why not just nerf goons? Why doesn't the rest of Eve nerf goons? No better reason for conflict than goons destroying the economy? "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Ms Caroline Amazing Super Slackers Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:42:10 - [1427] - Quote Greetings, For gods sake, this is like the 3rd or 4th time you nerf fighters, your current actions are difficult to understand. We spend billions to be able to fly carriers/supercarriers, and they are not ships that allow players to replace them like every day socks. Honestly, i fly a super and with the amount of risk to be able to replace it while only playing with two accounts is insane. I spent months accumulating money to be even able building one, and now you are making most of the carrier pilots regretting training into carriers in the first place even more. So this is my opinion and I'll be honest to say that this nerf is UNNECESSARY and makes me angry to know that almost every month my beautiful capital is becoming a useless junk of metal lying around offline . I've also quit EVE before for around half a year just because of your nerfing, so having another one was not a wise decision game creators.
Ian Hestia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:42:37 - [1428] - Quote Fl4chz4ng3 wrote: Chevy Caputtos wrote: This PR blunder has probably cost CCP more in lost subscribers than the supposed supercarrier ratting RMTers. My subscription will not continue much longer if CCP continues to mistake ignoring players for knowing better. Seriously, what other company would alienate their highest paying and most invested players? Much less reply to a paying customer's inquiries by calling them an "edgelord" and posting cat pictures. Your second picture can't be real... How on earth they even dear to disrepect us like that? F*k this. How in the world they could say such thing to their subscribed players?
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 362	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:44:49 - [1429] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: GROUND XERO wrote: So ccp is crying about iskies... - where is most ratting? - who is using most ratting carriers and supers? - where is most mining? -where is most production? - oh where spawned the new titan thinngy (aka pirate faction Titan)?.,... is it all in goon space? Why not just nerf goons? Why doesn't the rest of Eve nerf goons? No better reason for conflict than goons destroying the economy? Because this time around you don't have trillions of casino isk to pay for it all and we are dug in a lot better than we were in dek. However you are welcome to try. We could use some content at home.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 590	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:48:56 - [1430] - Quote Axhind wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: GROUND XERO wrote: So ccp is crying about iskies... - where is most ratting? - who is using most ratting carriers and supers? - where is most mining? -where is most production? - oh where spawned the new titan thinngy (aka pirate faction Titan)?.,... is it all in goon space? Why not just nerf goons? Why doesn't the rest of Eve nerf goons? No better reason for conflict than goons destroying the economy? Because this time around you don't have trillions of casino isk to pay for it all and we are dug in a lot better than we were in dek. However you are welcome to try. We could use some content at home. Well, there you go then. Super nerf is the only sollution. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Sir PuppyPunch SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST The-Culture 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:56:58 - [1431] - Quote I guess I should post on the public forums as well since Reddit is taken with a grain of salt. This nerf is bad for the game and the gamers associated with it. Since the previous nerf bat the fighters were already in a bad place in regards to pvp, defanging supers and carriers alike is an easy task for any small-mid sized cruiser gang. This means that my carrier sits more than it did before the last patch already. Less opportunity to use my carrier toon means I don't want to sub that account if it sits all day. I do sub it though for the pve content, which in turn puts another capital out there for someone to gank and possibly create content on any random night where I'm trying to make isk. It also adds a possible carrier to our standing fleets in the situation where we might escalate to some crazy fight that can hit the gaming magazines and vlogs or chatted about on some podcast. That same toon is at the point where it can purchase a super. It's survived the countless hours out there grinding away producing a million clicks actively (because carrier ratting isn't afk in case some of you at ccp don't know) locking and shooting these sansha rats before the decimate my fighters. I've skilled up my carrier toon to good skills, poured months in to this toon and effectively years of focus and probably days of thought and planning. I don't want to put this toon in a super now though. It's in a terrible place with regards to pvp AND now with the upcoming changes pve too. What does that mean for me now that my next step in the game has been removed from me? I simply don't play. Citadels have destroyed pvp. Gone are the days of content generation.. lets go hit some timers on thursday to see if we can get a fight doesn't really exist unless it's for some moon way out there that we don't even want. If you hit one citadel (which is an incredible task with even 1 person defending) it doesn't matter because they can go spend a mere 2b and asset safety their stuff on over like its nothing. WH content is also 1 sided for me now. I used to enjoy going in random holes and searching for undefended pos's to hit and possibly score some loot. That's gone. Every hole is littered with random citadels now, abandoned but too difficult for me to spend two weeks to see if there's anything in there... I guess I should say 0 sided because I'm not actively ratting any more so I'm also not producing content for them to come and generate. So that's gone too. I was rorq mining, post first patch (maybe the second one too) making a paltry 200m per hour for putting a hot 12b on the line and hanging out whilst waiting for someone to come along and play with us. That was nerfed in to the ground, pointless now. -1 more toon. I injected for this and made my money back so it's no big deal. It was fun though while it lasted. So as a null sec player what's left? PVP is a shell of it's former self with the introduction of citadels. PVE has been nerfed to the ground in regards to capitals which is the stage I'm at (I'm not going back to VNI'S). I could probably figure out how to bot with a tengu which I see is pretty easy and you guys don't punish reported botters but that's not really my thing. WH content is dead. 10/10s are a thing of the past for me. Oh yeah, you guys do those little events here and there but honestly they're pretty lame. The sites are super basic. Data/Relic sites!? NVM, I've ran thousands of them and the loot sucks compared to the loot spout days (which btw I really enjoyed trying to grab those cans floating away). I've ran logistics but honestly the servers have been too funky for a hot minute and I'm basically scared to death to have a dc whilst my jf is on the line. I haven't played the past couple months because I was burnt out from the lack of content and nerfing of pve content in regards to the rorq/fighter sigs. I was kind of getting the itch again because of the upcoming AT stuff, that would give me something to chat about and look forward to while I filled my time with pve. Things like this nerf show me how blind your staff is some times in regards to other serious problems with this game. Citadels are destroying pvp. Ghost farming/botters/citadels are bloating the economy, not the one dude out there in a super/carrier grinding his weekend away trying to plex an account or two. It's crazy to me. Listen to these people that play the game and start addressing the things people are trying to tell you.
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 22:58:27 - [1432] - Quote GROUND XERO wrote: So ccp is crying about iskies... - where is most ratting? - who is using most ratting carriers and supers? - where is most mining? -where is most production? - oh where spawned the new titan thinngy (aka pirate faction Titan)?.,... is it all in goon space? Why not just nerf goons? Or, you know, we could just give them more Molok BPs...
Ms Caroline Amazing Super Slackers Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 23:03:47 - [1433] - Quote I unsubscribed as well. Albert Roidesbelges wrote: well i guess after 7 years you force my hand and i'll close my 4 accounts on Tuesday right before albion online is comming out thx ;)
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.10 23:07:27 - [1434] - Quote They're going to lose a lot of money next month once scripts run out, I hope they listen to the community and develop isk sinks instead of nerf batting (20% damage!! Seriously CCP) our endgame ships. At the very least this decision should be held until more discussion and testing can be performed.
Fl4chz4ng3 Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra 29	Posted - 2017.06.10 23:14:40 - [1435] - Quote I remember my first feeling when i try the supercarrier in pve trying to improve my efficiency each time going from a 90m tick to a 160m now really sad to see this beautiful game going this way....
Ian Hestia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.10 23:22:44 - [1436] - Quote Sir PuppyPunch wrote: (because carrier ratting isn't afk in case some of you at ccp don't know) I just want to highlight this sentence. In stead of AFK ratting like Vexor/VNI, Carrier ratting do need to pay a lot attention on controlling the fighters. Not much people could ratting in a Carrier for like 23/7 as those AFK ratting ship.
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.10 23:31:44 - [1437] - Quote Ian Hestia wrote: Sir PuppyPunch wrote: (because carrier ratting isn't afk in case some of you at ccp don't know) I just want to highlight this sentence. In stead of AFK ratting like Vexor/VNI, Carrier ratting do need to pay a lot attention on controlling the fighters. Not much people could ratting in a Carrier for like 23/7 as those AFK ratting ship. The people making suggestions like "carriers are afk ratting machines" either don't play the game or are deliberately spewing disinformation. If you try to afk rat in a 2k17 carrier then you will lose more isk in fighters than you gain from the anom. Point remains, a 20% nerf to fighter damage is far too much coupled with a 15% chance for npcs to target fighters too.
Skill Deficiency Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.10 23:42:43 - [1438] - Quote So many sis white males in this thread with their 260 mil ticks. wage gap is not a myth guys and it needs to be addressed
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.10 23:43:22 - [1439] - Quote Time for this thread to have another bath ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 01:42:38 - [1440] - Quote Is there any chance of this being rethought? Seems like CSM wasn't involved in the decision whatsoever, and any checks and balances were evaded at CCP Headquarters. Also, 260m ticks? That would be like multiboxing 3 Revenants.

Crash 888 TRINTEX 11	Posted - 2017.06.11 01:49:24 - [1441] - Quote The fact that "PVE super" is now a common thing is evidence of insane level of safety brought to vast areas of the galaxy thanks to jump fatigue. If not removing jump fatigue then at very least invert the truesec, as areas close to lowsec are now the riskiest and demand the most reward.
Bruce Destro Global Dominance Initiative 17	Posted - 2017.06.11 01:53:05 - [1442] - Quote as i posted earlier, increase the isk value of anomaly rats so that a max skilled battleship pilot can get close to the isk income of a carrier, and place an acceleration gate at the anomally. carriers should never have been PVE ships. it just wasnt the plan. some smartass in a nyx with 25 fighters realised it was a good idea and now its the norm. i want to use battleships, HAC"s and what not for pve again. just place an acceleration gate and up the isk values for anomalies. easy fix.
cybercoder2 Shimaya I N E X T R E M I S Tactical Narcotics Team 11	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:02:20 - [1443] - Quote owww my god really carnet believe how stupid ccp are . they will kill the game if this happens ..last game I played did the same things over and over again just like this ..and the game is on it last legs after being around for over 10 years ...they really need to rethink this before it goes live
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:06:00 - [1444] - Quote Jang Taredi wrote: Is there any chance of this being rethought? Seems like CSM wasn't involved in the decision whatsoever, and any checks and balances were evaded at CCP Headquarters. Also, 260m ticks? That would be like multiboxing 3 Revenants. They really should reconsider, but I wouldn't hold my breath for them to care about the community like that--they seem intent on screwing endgame ships :( The only metrics that will convince them are unsubscribed accounts I fear, not forum posts.
Odessima ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition 4	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:09:04 - [1445] - Quote It is all a plot to steal more intelligent and workable idea's from the player base.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:12:26 - [1446] - Quote Crash 888 wrote: The fact that "PVE super" is now a common thing is evidence of insane level of safety brought to vast areas of the galaxy thanks to jump fatigue. Carriers seem to get blapped pretty often, actually.
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 43	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:15:20 - [1447] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Wolf theQuarrelsome wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: I agree that it is a panic nerf but perhaps the end game means are too easy to handle? Just how much skill (not skills) is required from a pilot to operate these end game means. Never been interested in caps but I can imagine anyone can pilot those, given the trained skills and isk to sit in them, otherwise there wouldn't be such a sudden isk inflation. Stupid forum ate my reply... Carriers are for normal people 1 per person to farm. Those who don't are either super skilled people or cheating with stealth input broadcasting. Rorqs however stack a little too easily while multiboxing. However the graphs show carriers responsible for the isk influx. Even if there are other factors that stack. Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... . . . Actually.... what if CCP is unsatisfied with people ratting in carriers -- since they are making enough ISK to live by with just 1 account, because carrier multiboxing cant be done? What if their true intention with this whole nerf is to get people who used carriers to move into Ishtars and PLEX 1-2 more accounts in order to get to the same level of income as they had on their carrier? Afterall, more PLEX is more cash from the cash cow, right? Bring me a tinfoil hat. I might just be on to something... ;) So if I PLEX 2 more accounts, will you leave carriers alone, CCP? Maybe all carrier pilots need to PLEX more accounts and that will satisfy their greed. Just kidding, ofc. Still unsubbing -- though not before I help every player I know open their eyes to CCP's garbage politics and logic. This is starting to smell a bit like the Incarna scandal, does it not? Have you forgotten already, CCP?
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 10	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:30:02 - [1448] - Quote C0ATL wrote: [quote=Gimme Sake][quote=Wolf theQuarrelsome][quote=Gimme Sake] Actually.... what if CCP is unsatisfied with people ratting in carriers -- since they are making enough ISK to live by with just 1 account, because carrier multiboxing cant be done? What if their true intention with this whole nerf is to get people who used carriers to move into Ishtars and PLEX 1-2 more accounts in order to get to the same level of income as they had on their carrier? Afterall, more PLEX is more cash from the cash cow, right? I think the fact CCP employees cited RMT as a reason for the change is evidence enough. They don't want the "1% of the 1%" of players to be making ~$3 in ISK an hour, instead of buying PLEX. Even though said players are risking a lot, and have to train and afford those ships in the first place.
Elvis Ernaga Dol0 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:34:43 - [1449] - Quote Nerfing PVP ships because you are not able to properly design PVE content is plain stupid
Raj Nakrar Republic Guard Orbital Velocity 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:40:57 - [1450] - Quote Faruzen en Divalone wrote: Siobhan MacLeary wrote: "We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties." Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. ccp hasn't show a graph breaking income by ship type so it's just an excuse, nerf all bounties and by so doing keep the field leveled

Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4011	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:41:36 - [1451] - Quote C0ATL wrote: Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers. Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers. Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement. I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike.
Chevy Caputtos Shadow Legion X Fidelas Constans 10	Posted - 2017.06.11 02:50:42 - [1452] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: C0ATL wrote: Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers. Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers. Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement. I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike. Might have more to do with skill injectors.
Eric Lemmonte F-I-N-K Industry The Volition Cult 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:00:47 - [1453] - Quote I don't see where the carrier nerfs are going to help. You have all these afk ratters and influx of players yet you kill income from the people who've spent all this time to get into a capital. Couldn't you just create another isk sink somewhere? Maybe even increase the cost of plex since you love to have your "sale" all the time it would be easy to mask that change. Hell... here's a wild idea. You guys hate multiple accounts right? Limit there to two active accounts on a given machine. I bet that will stop a lot of afk ratting. Another idea... Remove mining drones entirely from Rorqs. Make them actually have to boost a fleet like they were always intended to. Change the bounty value on Haven and Sanctum rats. Changes like this make me really reconsider why I play this game. I've always been "on the fence" of playing at all. Please don't give me a reason to leave. I only rat enough to play the game in my carrier and I only ever rat for 1-2 hours. At best that means I earn roughly 300 mISK before taxes and loot. Ratting and mining is way too boring for me to go longer than that. I'd really like to see the money graph with total accounts overlayed.
Rauski Koraka Mindstar Technology Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:06:18 - [1454] - Quote RIP the last few months of my training queue.... What a waste of time. First Rorquals.. now this.
idontknowy Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:11:56 - [1455] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: C0ATL wrote: Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers. Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers. Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement. I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike. CCP Quant is an amateur statistician using outlier numbers.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:15:07 - [1456] - Quote idontknowy wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: C0ATL wrote: Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers. Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers. Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement. I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike. CCP Quant is an amateur statistician using outlier numbers. Let's be honest. The only way you're getting 260m ticks, is if you get a dread spawn and an escalation. That, or you're multiboxing supercarriers (and probably using macros). Most people get between 60-100mil, and that's with a supercarrier.
Pr0Vaporizer Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:20:17 - [1457] - Quote If the issue is super ratting why are you nerfing light lighters more?
Hamasaki Cross Scumbag Logistics INC PTY LTD The Bastion 37	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:20:31 - [1458] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. I quit eve after one of the dozen nerfs in the last few months after playing since Beta. Someone linked this nerf to discord, which caused me to chuckle and chime in. For you people complaining about nerfs, it's really quite simple. "Isk faucets" need to go away so you buy more plex since this game hasn't had a new player base in many years. (free to play influx is laughable, as any game on such a transition is well known to be on it's last legs) As such, it's not going to be unusual in the coming months to continue to see many more nerfs for players who have invested billions of isk and years of time into SP and ships, in order to reduce the total number of available isk/SP. Since injectors implementation, these nerfs cause a direct loss of SP as people rip now obsolete skills (now Carriers, before, rorquals, before mining barges/hulks when rorquals were rebalanced, leadership skills, etc) at a great loss. As new injectors give far less SP than the SP ripped, this is net profit for CCP who needs an increased revenue stream. I rip 500k SP and get 150k back in return or whatever the calculation works out to be. 350k SP removed from the game so I need to buy 3 additional injectors to make back my lost SP. I'm going to run on the assumption that this moronic CCP trend will continue and continue to train useless skills as they suddenly become the only viable option for gameplay (such as salvaging) in the future. And since I FOOLISHLY (really, shame on me) subbed for the remainder of the year, near the end of said sub, I'll login and take a peak around at the new 'enhanced' CCP velator with mining lasers only gameplay style. "for the economy" of course since suddenly CCP really cares about the "player driven economy" which is actually now "ccp nerf driven". All this said, I find CCP's strategy highly curious for a game that attracts zero new customers. (new accounts are redundant as people increase scale on existing accounts in the world's most multibox able game). Screw remaining cash cow customers who have given years of solid support in preference for.... I dunno what... bankruptcy? To CCP devs/marketing team, at this point, have you guys just given up on this game? -- This is an honest question (not trolling, bruh) and I wonder what the honest answer is (or if such a thing were realistic to expect) And finally, somewhat comically, I find it hilarious that fozzy didn't send out this nerf advice. I guess he/she/other finally got tired of being crapped on by the general population for announcing many dozens of other bad business moves.
idontknowy Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:25:32 - [1459] - Quote Pr0Vaporizer wrote: If the issue is super ratting why are you nerfing light lighters more? Now there's a good question....
Crash 888 TRINTEX 13	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:37:46 - [1460] - Quote Hamasaki Cross wrote: All this said, I find CCP's strategy highly curious for a game that attracts zero new customers. (new accounts are redundant as people increase scale on existing accounts in the world's most multibox able game). Screw remaining cash cow customers who have given years of solid support in preference for.... I dunno what... bankruptcy? . CCP isn't going bankrupt, quite the opposite, they had record year in 2016. 30million USD capital they raised for VR was all paid back and then some, and that only from selling only 1 (rather unremarkable) VR pew pew game. Guess where their future is.

C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 44	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:46:51 - [1461] - Quote Chevy Caputtos wrote: C0ATL wrote: [quote=Gimme Sake][quote=Wolf theQuarrelsome][quote=Gimme Sake] Actually.... what if CCP is unsatisfied with people ratting in carriers -- since they are making enough ISK to live by with just 1 account, because carrier multiboxing cant be done? What if their true intention with this whole nerf is to get people who used carriers to move into Ishtars and PLEX 1-2 more accounts in order to get to the same level of income as they had on their carrier? Afterall, more PLEX is more cash from the cash cow, right? I think the fact CCP employees cited RMT as a reason for the change is evidence enough. They don't want the "1% of the 1%" of players to be making ~$3 in ISK an hour, instead of buying PLEX. Even though said players are risking a lot, and have to train and afford those ships in the first place. By all means...eliminate RMT, but do so in a way that does not affect game balance to such a degree. Furthermore, do it in a way that actually punishes people who abuse RMT...not mid-level carrier pilots who rat for pvp ships or PLEXing their accounts. Do you honestly think that the top 1% of EvE are ratting to begin with? They are making ISK in trade hubs, flooding the market with faction battleships or skimming the top of alliance wallets, given their position as powerblock leaders. If RMT is CCPs hidden main reason then, even from that perspective, this nerf is very badly thought out -- 95% or more of the players this nerf punishes have nothing to do with RMT. I've been carrier ratting for over 2 years and I personally didnt even have knowledge of RMT mechanics until informing myself about it due to this very scandal. I am not unreasonable to expect a game developer to not have their own interest in perspective, alongside their playerbase... but if they had only just asked the community for ideas, I'm sure a lot more better options would have come up to fix RMTing, rather than this... There was a time when CCP resolved issues in such a way. I respected them greatly for this and and remember how I would use this as a hook when trying to get my gaming friends interested in EvE. Sadly, we are a far way from those times and it only seems to be getting worse.
Bobaa Fett Deep Axion 13	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:47:40 - [1462] - Quote So. This wont correct this isk faucet. You have also potentially created a worse loop. Example. As carriers were the appex pve ship in null...it also created a hunting pool for people like me... Spending billions to effectively hunt these. The extractors....the skills... The plex purchased in the likes of carriers...was.. Immense. Now, less carriers fielded means less carriers will die. Less carriers die, less plex purchased for their replacement. Less carriers in the hunting pool, less people like me spending billions on hunting them. And no one is going to extractor buff their account for carriers that deal similar dps to rattlesnakes dualboxed. ....And you just sent everyone back to incursions. Lets be honest CCP. The player base you have now is all you're going to get. Stop beta testing half assed rebalncing with them.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4012	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:48:45 - [1463] - Quote Hamasaki Cross wrote: To CCP devs/marketing team, at this point, have you guys just given up on this game? -- This is an honest question (not trolling, bruh) and I wonder what the honest answer is (or if such a thing were realistic to expect). You know what happens when Devs give up on a game, they give up on balance changes. A balance change that risks offending some of their old players is actually a sign of a game with a future, because it means the Devs care about the games ecosystem. Now yes they can still get it wrong, but this change means they see the game being around for 5+ years, otherwise it doesn't matter if the economy death spirals because of this.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:52:03 - [1464] - Quote It's also worth mentioning that this is going to adversely affect anyone that owns a (super)carrier, as their vessels will drop in value. To already see once 20 billion ISK ships being sold for 15 billion is just plain pathetic. It's almost downright theft.
Funny as hell Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 03:54:45 - [1465] - Quote Unsubbing 4 accounts, screw these changes and the continuous nerfs to null sec. Peace.
Rain6637 NulzSec 35050	Posted - 2017.06.11 04:29:44 - [1466] - Quote I'm surprised by the reason for the changes. It sounds like they were based on income generated. Was this the case? It's very unusual. Nerfs happen, just like buffs, and what surprises me about this change is the apparent reason for the change. A change isn't something you can call objectively good or bad, and what matters more is the motivation or intent. Boiled down to its simplest terms, it is perceived as simply wanting players to farm less gold. It shouldn't be difficult to understand why that would maybe upset people. There are several better reasons for this type of thing. Ships and mechanics often see nerfs after their introduction. I suspect it is to generate interest in accumulating the SP initially and then pulling things back. It's a well-known pattern in EVE. This could explain the fighter changes somewhat, where you want players to skill into the new capital drone skills and want to put another carrot in front of them. Balance changes are also commonly based on the ship types used, compared to one another. It's not the best method even though it's common in game balance and game design in general. That type of reasoning would mean buffing less used ships to make them more viable for PVE. Perhaps. Even in this scenario, it could explain fighter damage reduction with the goal of avoiding power creep while seeking a balance in usage statistics. I've always wanted to see changes based on far less tangible reasons, like fleet comp synergy that wouldn't show up in stats. With this goal it would be understandable to say Supers as solo PVE boats does not align with your vision of cooperative gameplay. You could go on to say Supers should be used for PVP and make changes to distance them from PVE only. Just between us, don't tell anyone, but I would agree with this assessment the most, that a solo Super in an anomaly is distorted gameplay that was last common perhaps five years ago. Everyone knows the saying about stats, right? That there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Use stats and base decisions on them, but "you're farming too much gold" is very self-centered and is a company-facing decision. The only failure on the player base's behalf is maybe allowing the farming to happen, but even then you'd be wishing we attack each other more. In this case that's something you (the game developer) wants. I also suggest being more careful about the reasons given for changes, at least publicly. Do what you want but make sure someone massages the publicity with explanations based on player need. Do what you need to do but tell the players what they need to hear. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Bonaventured Gladius Veritatis Goonswarm Federation 12	Posted - 2017.06.11 04:38:43 - [1467] - Quote It looks like a nerf on income generated by carriers and supers very poorly studied and implemented. Sometimes is good to look at the solution proposed by players and why not, use that object situated above your shoulders. It help most of the times, if used properly.
Dengdeng Xiao Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity 3	Posted - 2017.06.11 04:46:58 - [1468] - Quote Why you doing that? Can't believe it. stupid change. You can nerf the supers,why nerf the carrier,why the light fighter? 20%reduction? Still can't believe, well, It's time to leave EVE. STUPID.
Rain6637 NulzSec 35051	Posted - 2017.06.11 04:51:20 - [1469] - Quote It even makes sense if you dislike players making so much ISK period. I can understand why. ISK inflation by players who have excess ISK after funding their Omega accounts. Makes PLEX more expensive and less appealing for players who have to work harder at it. In that case you could still say "We think the damage application of fighters is fine, but after reviewing their performance since the capital drone changes and especially the last year of their use, we think their damage output is too high." Totally plausible explanation, and then find statistics to support that claim. You get the same exact changes you want for your own reasons, and nobody is left feeling like PVP is suffering from a faucet leak. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
VeronicaKell FUITA The Bastard Cartel 23	Posted - 2017.06.11 04:58:46 - [1470] - Quote Buff NPCs then. I have been training fighters for the last 4 months. Why the hell are you ruining a PVP ship to make your bottom line better? Do your jobs as creative game innovators and not EA Game flunkies... oh wait.

Bruce Destro Global Dominance Initiative 18	Posted - 2017.06.11 05:14:09 - [1471] - Quote VeronicaKell wrote: Buff NPCs then. I have been training fighters for the last 4 months. Why the hell are you ruining a PVP ship to make your bottom line better? Do your jobs as creative game innovators and not EA Game flunkies... oh wait. carriers will still have the largest ratting income. 20% reduction in dps can be considered roughly 20% reduction in bounties. 150m an hour to 125? that is still far greater than you can get in a fully skilled faction battleship.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4012	Posted - 2017.06.11 05:19:13 - [1472] - Quote VeronicaKell wrote: Buff NPCs then. I have been training fighters for the last 4 months. Why the hell are you ruining a PVP ship to make your bottom line better? Do your jobs as creative game innovators and not EA Game flunkies... oh wait. Because that will nerf EVERYONE. And the problem is only a small subset of that. So CCP are actually doing their jobs exactly as they should and not punishing the non carrier pilots for carriers being out of balance. It's like all that isk in your wallets has removed your ability to read.
Mace Window C5 Flight The Serenity Initiative 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 05:42:04 - [1473] - Quote After a lot of work and time to get the carrier. Three days after i get it CCP messes it up. TY CCP for making me waste all that time.
Dimitri Steinkamp Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:01:14 - [1474] - Quote Well, thanks for answering my question "should I start training up for carrier ratting?" CCP I'll just train 3 additional accounts into VNIs instead, will take less time and provide the same isk/hour as the after-nerf carriers, all while risking not even a quarter of what a carrier ratter risks!
Rain6637 NulzSec 35051	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:10:05 - [1475] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. If you hadn't said this part, the top .001% who complained would be shouted down by other players and memed about salt and tears. Truth is no one feels sorry for them. I've always thought capital DPS should be a role held by dreadnoughts anyway. Maybe give titans a full rack of dread guns too but just for the gimmick. I think Supers are plenty versatile with just support and ewar roles. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 NulzSec 35051	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:11:59 - [1476] - Quote lastly, stop posting on reddit. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Coralas Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 160	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:15:55 - [1477] - Quote Bobaa Fett wrote: So. This wont correct this isk faucet. You have also potentially created a worse loop. Example. As carriers were the appex pve ship in null...it also created a hunting pool for people like me... Spending billions to effectively hunt these. The extractors....the skills... The plex purchased in the likes of carriers...was.. Immense. Now, less carriers fielded means less carriers will die. Less carriers die, less plex purchased for their replacement. Less carriers in the hunting pool, less people like me spending billions on hunting them. And no one is going to extractor buff their account for carriers that deal similar dps to rattlesnakes dualboxed. ....And you just sent everyone back to incursions. Lets be honest CCP. The player base you have now is all you're going to get. Stop beta testing half assed rebalncing with them. Plex is a very difficult topic to introduce into this. Plex sales have a positive feedback loop where getting more value from a plex increases number of people that will buy plexes, and a negative feedback loop where plexes offer so much value that people don't need to buy very much plex, so CCP has to keep it within a range relative to the price of items.
HugoRich HugoRich Corporation 27	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:20:05 - [1478] - Quote How about resetting all skill points and returning them back to training window to train somethig else? And why not? You would buy a phone with a 8 gigabytes of memory where on box written *in next updade could be only 4 gigabytes coz its to cool and noone want to buy a new models*, do you? -ò-ü-+-+ -â -¦-¦-ü -+-¦-é -+-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-¦-+, -ì-é-+ -¦-ë-¦ -+-¦ -+-+-¦-ç-+-é, -ç-é-+ -P-+-+ -+-¦ -¦-¦-+-+ -+-¦ -ü-+-¦-¦-Å-é.
Zhul Chembull Booze and Blues inc. The Bastion 121	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:22:01 - [1479] - Quote I do not carrier or rat in a super, but I think after 14 years I have a perspective. The carriers and supers should do nothing short of extraordinary since people take many months, if not years to train into and buy. Part of the appeal of eve is getting that bling ship that really allows you to output money. However, to counter this you have to cough up some change. You are basically trying to balance aspects of the game that are already balanced because of the time and isk it takes to make/train these ships. You guys really are destroying your own game with these kind of changes. Keep going and you will make it where people just will not play this anymore. I am not sure what is going on the last few months, but you guys really are jumping off a cliff and alienating some of your more loyal players. I have already shut down 3 other accounts because this is becoming less and less fun. Oh well, you will figure it out. I know you do not actually read these post, like others have said, just a way for us to vent. Soon as a decent mmorpg comes out that I can sink my teeth into, I will be out of this game. You guys really are self destructing.
Sgt Warlock 30plus Fidelas Constans 10	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:22:58 - [1480] - Quote The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the **** out of eve. On that note: I trained into a rorqual after a promise at Evesterdam there would be no nerf, and one week later, nerf bat... I train into a carrier since I have limited time... and you get it. So I will stick to plan a: back in my trusty rattler and keep on smiling

Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 18	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:41:05 - [1481] - Quote Sgt Warlock wrote: The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the **** out of eve. On that note: I trained into a rorqual after a promise at Evesterdam there would be no nerf, and one week later, nerf bat... I train into a carrier since I have limited time... and you get it. So I will stick to plan a: back in my trusty rattler and keep on smiling Here are some numbers for you. Delve: 260 million made in bounty per capita Deklein: 460 million made in bounty per capia Take your Grr Goons crap to reddit please.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1516	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:41:38 - [1482] - Quote Sgt Warlock wrote: The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the **** out of eve. You can always deploy to Delve and space pewpew them. But who am I kidding. You're FCon. Even more incompetent and carebeary than Goons themselves are. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1516	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:43:34 - [1483] - Quote Joe Barbarian wrote: Sgt Warlock wrote: The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the ** out of eve. On that note: I trained into a rorqual after a promise at Evesterdam there would be no nerf, and one week later, nerf bat... I train into a carrier since I have limited time... and you get it. So I will stick to plan a: back in my trusty rattler and keep on smiling Here are some numbers for you. Delve: 260 million made in bounty per capita Deklein: 460 million made in bounty per capia Take your Grr Goons crap to reddit please. Exclude the inactive players, please. We all know it's Goons abusing the ** out of every ISK faucet they can find. There simply is no bigger nullbear empire than Goonswarm. Not even the RMT Russians get close. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1516	Posted - 2017.06.11 06:44:52 - [1484] - Quote The emotional effect of giving something and then taking it away are much greater than never giving it in the first place. That's all what this is about. Entitlement that you guys think you deserve this hyper-inflated money faucet even when it's ruining the economy just the same way Rorquals are. With my trillions and trillions of ISK, I well belong to these 1% of the 1% in wealth. But I'm not crying about this nerf because I understand that it's badly needed. Don't need an MBA or trillions in wealth for that. It's what experts call "critical thinking skills" which well over 99% of you mindless brainwashed drones are never going to obtain. EVE is about blowing ** up and having fun in the *** game, not about shooting ** NPCs and grinding dank ticks. Oh and all this hate on Fozzie and Larrikin? It's disgusting. They are NOT solely responsible for these changes. Nearly everyone at CCP will be behind these changes just as much as Fozzie and Larrikin are. They just happen to be the ones announcing it and that's no reason at all to raise the pitchforks against those two. Are the devs constantly adding that annoys the out of me? Hell yeah. People call me "epitome of the concept of bittervetism" for a reason. Would I single out the messenger and make him responsible for the change? no. That would be short-sighted and seriously dumb and getting rid of the messenger would not change anything at all. If you're developing that much hate against someone because he changed something about internet spaceship pixels that you don't like that you feel the need to physically harm others (this includes animals you little piece of *. They have feelings too and are more often than not smarter than you little fucks are) or yourself, then you've got far bigger problems than CCP changing something about your internet spaceships and you should seek medical help. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/47j11z/goodbye_foxfour_scarpia_and_ytterbium/d0dc351/?context=3 If anyone from CCP ends up reading this: - Give me the *** old map and scanning system back - Give me back the option to turn off this crimewatch targeting BEEEEEEEEP because IT ***** DRIVES ME NUTS and forced me to mute every single one of my clients, which already resulted in a few unfortunate ship losses due to my attention being on forum shitposting and not the game. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
HonkiPonki Smokeherbs 3	Posted - 2017.06.11 07:34:00 - [1485] - Quote ... the top 1% of the top 1% ... .. " i was a wild ccp dev, then i took an arrow to the knee" .. Wow, beeing the absolute elite now, :thancs ccp: i also very much support getting my beloved nano niddy constantly hit with a nervbat. . how abotu ccp go *insert massive hatspeech spliced with tons of insults and capital letter".. Then again this reminds me soo much of sonyand the star wars debacel.-) ima go get some popcorn and see how ccp manges to burn down what was eve online. SKull
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2017.06.11 07:40:22 - [1486] - Quote Crash 888 wrote: Hamasaki Cross wrote: All this said, I find CCP's strategy highly curious for a game that attracts zero new customers. (new accounts are redundant as people increase scale on existing accounts in the world's most multibox able game). Screw remaining cash cow customers who have given years of solid support in preference for.... I dunno what... bankruptcy? . CCP isn't going bankrupt, quite the opposite, they had record year in 2016. 30million USD capital they raised for VR was all paid back and then some, and that only from selling only 1 (rather unremarkable) VR pew pew game. Guess where their future is. We have seen CCPs grand plans before. Provided VR does take off this time around it will be swamped by AAA titles that have exactly the same amount of complexity and longevity as CCPs VR crap. Which is to say some to none. They will just pushed out of the market just like what happened with dust. EVE is making money because it is unique in the world. But CCP constantly wants to make generic games and hope that they will somehow succeed against huge corporations with competent marketing teams.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2017.06.11 07:49:41 - [1487] - Quote Linus Gorp wrote: Sgt Warlock wrote: The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the **** out of eve. You can always deploy to Delve and space pewpew them. But who am I kidding. You're FCon. Even more incompetent and carebeary than Goons themselves are. Why don't you come to delve and show us your elite ways? We were also blamed for the mineral prices but if you notice the numbers we are actually importing minerals to delve and not exporting so if anything we are keeping the prices up.
Ergo Eclips Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:17:29 - [1488] - Quote u keep nerfing my capital ships which i got ass kik to get them and train to be able to use them .....and seems that what u CCP going to do for all the good ships down here...so it's the time for me to stop playing eve and searching for new one without nerf..........
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 19	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:18:05 - [1489] - Quote Linus Gorp wrote: Joe Barbarian wrote: Sgt Warlock wrote: The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the ** out of eve. On that note: I trained into a rorqual after a promise at Evesterdam there would be no nerf, and one week later, nerf bat... I train into a carrier since I have limited time... and you get it. So I will stick to plan a: back in my trusty rattler and keep on smiling Here are some numbers for you. Delve: 260 million made in bounty per capita Deklein: 460 million made in bounty per capia Take your Grr Goons crap to reddit please. Exclude the inactive players, please. We all know it's Goons abusing the ** out of every ISK faucet they can find. There simply is no bigger nullbear empire than Goonswarm. Not even the RMT Russians get close. Are you seriously letting your irrational hatred of ingame politics cloud your eyes from the truth? No wonder CCP doesn't listen to it's player base.
idontknowy Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:29:17 - [1490] - Quote Bruce Destro wrote: VeronicaKell wrote: Buff NPCs then. I have been training fighters for the last 4 months. Why the hell are you ruining a PVP ship to make your bottom line better? Do your jobs as creative game innovators and not EA Game flunkies... oh wait. carriers will still have the largest ratting income. 20% reduction in dps can be considered roughly 20% reduction in bounties. 150m an hour to 125? that is still far greater than you can get in a fully skilled faction battleship. Or I could run 2 vni's, make about the same and only less than 300 mil ISK on grid....

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6603	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:30:09 - [1491] - Quote Nina Nobuna wrote: How about reducing bounties instead... did someone suggest that already? Yeah because reducing the ISK income of players who are not the problem is always a good idea. How about you FOADIAF. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6603	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:31:16 - [1492] - Quote idontknowy wrote: Bruce Destro wrote: VeronicaKell wrote: Buff NPCs then. I have been training fighters for the last 4 months. Why the hell are you ruining a PVP ship to make your bottom line better? Do your jobs as creative game innovators and not EA Game flunkies... oh wait. carriers will still have the largest ratting income. 20% reduction in dps can be considered roughly 20% reduction in bounties. 150m an hour to 125? that is still far greater than you can get in a fully skilled faction battleship. Or I could run 2 vni's, make about the same and only less than 300 mil ISK on grid.... Then why were you risking a much more expensive ship? Oh wait you were stupid. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Assaj Ventress Deliveries on Tuesday 9	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:32:57 - [1493] - Quote Limit all PVE sites/anomalies to subcaps (including L5 missions)
Molun Darnus Facetious Indifference DARKNESS. 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:35:15 - [1494] - Quote ALL of this comes down to 1 mistake from CCP, skill injectors, there wouldn't be half the super/titan/rorq pilots in eve if it wasn't for them.....and now we the players take the fall for it.. GJ o/
Mama Ja D.A.M.N.E.D.S. 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 08:59:21 - [1495] - Quote -í-íP one love <3 this update is very nice!!! GJ CCP
Rain6637 NulzSec 35061	Posted - 2017.06.11 09:03:37 - [1496] - Quote Joe Barbarian wrote: Sgt Warlock wrote: The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the ** out of eve. On that note: I trained into a rorqual after a promise at Evesterdam there would be no nerf, and one week later, nerf bat... I train into a carrier since I have limited time... and you get it. So I will stick to plan a: back in my trusty rattler and keep on smiling Here are some numbers for you. Delve: 260 million made in bounty per capita Deklein: 460 million made in bounty per capia Take your Grr Goons crap to reddit please. yeah but uh Quote:** Delve has almost 4 times the population density of either of these two. -https://imperium.news/monthly-economic-report-goons-win/ let's not downplay things too hard, I mean that's kind of impressive. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 NulzSec 35061	Posted - 2017.06.11 09:06:13 - [1497] - Quote It's almost like goons are just trying to prepare for the next war against everyone Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Werner Erata D.A.M.N.E.D.S. 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 09:29:07 - [1498] - Quote Great changes!
BAHKO21pyc D.A.M.N.E.D.S. 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 09:33:21 - [1499] - Quote Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps.
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 19	Posted - 2017.06.11 09:33:33 - [1500] - Quote BAHKO21pyc wrote: Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps. You've got to be kidding right, you have your kiting small gang overpowered garmurs and **** like that. Don't cry about "you're forgetting small gang pvp" crap here. :getout:

Ms Caroline Amazing Super Slackers Circle-Of-Two 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 09:44:57 - [1501] - Quote BAHKO21pyc wrote: Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps. What a joke. I bet my unsub you haven't had a carrier before.
AlexKent KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 38	Posted - 2017.06.11 09:56:12 - [1502] - Quote Sgt Warlock wrote: The only Isk faucet here is Goons! Not the regular joe's who enjoy the game. If you look at the data, the people that mine and rat trillions are goons! The CSM contains a lot of goons people too, so hell yes they are going to say do it to everyone. If CCP lowers the drops and the amount of mining significantly in the area where they are it will be ok for the rest of EVE. Do not blaim CCP, blaim Goons , they are mass mining and ratting the **** out of eve. On that note: I trained into a rorqual after a promise at Evesterdam there would be no nerf, and one week later, nerf bat... I train into a carrier since I have limited time... and you get it. So I will stick to plan a: back in my trusty rattler and keep on smiling Ha, FCON of everyone else accusing Goons of extreme carebearing. Guess setting out and doing your own thing didn't work out the way you expected it. Hope CCP actually listens to you and nerfs Delve alone so we finally get a good enough reason to hunt your sorry excuse of an alliance to the end of the galaxy.
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 4	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:02:50 - [1503] - Quote BAHKO21pyc wrote: Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps. Situation form about a month ago - 20 t3 cruisers fleet with 5 - 6 scimis on one side against 10 carriers and 2 supers. Capital fleet couldn't break a single scimi. And CCP talking about rebalancing.....yeah. Nerfing carriers and super is the most ******** CCP decision since i started to play EVE
Rain6637 NulzSec 35063	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:07:02 - [1504] - Quote Ms Caroline wrote: BAHKO21pyc wrote: Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps. What a joke. I bet my unsub you haven't had a carrier before. which answer is the one where you unsub? Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Mama Ja D.A.M.N.E.D.S. 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:11:57 - [1505] - Quote Analius Glover wrote: BAHKO21pyc wrote: Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps. Situation form about a month ago - 20 t3 cruisers fleet with 5 - 6 scimis on one side against 10 carriers and 2 supers. Capital fleet couldn't break a single scimi. And CCP talking about rebalancing.....yeah. Nerfing carriers and supers is the most ******** CCP decision since i started to play EVE you just noobs,who cant use webs.so cry more about nerfs...
Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:29:54 - [1506] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: They're going to lose a lot of money next month once scripts run out, I dont think its gonna be significant. Most crying here that they ll unsub, are just words. Those that will really unsub, wont matter as most of them PLEX their accounts with the billions of ISK from super/carrier ratting. A drop in PLEX price is the only thing that might happen.
mrammo Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:31:53 - [1507] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. Even after two days IGÇÖm still shocked by the brazenness of that statement. I suggest you have a look at the killboards of some large alliances. You will find out that supers are hardly being used. If at all they are being used for bragging but certainly not because it is the best choice for any specific task. If they were indeed powerful options for pvp, donGÇÖt you think people would actually use them in pvp? ItGÇÖs your job to give everyone the chance to fly the ships they like. There are plenty of worthwhile options for players who want to fly cheap ships. There is no worthwhile option for players who want to fly expensive ships.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 590	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:37:00 - [1508] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: It's almost like goons are just trying to prepare for the next war against everyone Last war was "casino" financed or it would not have happened. That alone should have raised many question/exclamation marks. Problem is nobody is willing to risk their stash and finance any war. Everyone is hoarding. Not sure if CCP pays attention to what happened on their China server, where one player and his alliance controls absolutely everything in game, plex has reached astronomic prices and player base has diminished considerably. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 4	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:42:10 - [1509] - Quote Mama Ja wrote: Analius Glover wrote: BAHKO21pyc wrote: Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps. Situation form about a month ago - 20 t3 cruisers fleet with 5 - 6 scimis on one side against 10 carriers and 2 supers. Capital fleet couldn't break a single scimi. And CCP talking about rebalancing.....yeah. Nerfing carriers and supers is the most ******** CCP decision since i started to play EVE you just noobs,who cant use webs.so cry more about nerfs... good point - considering that the light fighters with mwd can go 12km /s and still have same apllication as they go 2km /s the speed diffrence of webbed target should be irrelevant
RangerAgrius Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:50:18 - [1510] - Quote Please just come out and admit. EVERY FUCKIN PATCH CYCLE will be determined by what goons do next. I feel like there is a theme here. Im sick of this **. Sick and tired of CCP factoring in one group of people to determine what the entirety of the patch is going to affect without looking at the rest of the playerbase. Watch the use of carriers go down in everywhere but hmmmmmmm delve? Watch the use of rorquals crash as you have absolutely obliterated the risk reward for smaller groups that may not be able to defend there space as much or nearly to the same level as well as say....goons? It is absolutely disgusting that all of your patch cycles factor in one group of people and what about the rest of us? Get ** and sell your rorq and carrier? Rorq = not cost effective anymore for smaller groups Carrier = no longer pvp viable Eve community that isnt goonswarm? Get ****.

blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.11 10:59:05 - [1511] - Quote RangerAgrius wrote: Please just come out and admit. EVERY FUCKIN PATCH CYCLE will be determined by what goons do next. I feel like there is a theme here. Im sick of this **. Sick and tired of CCP factoring in one group of people to determine what the entirety of the patch is going to affect without looking at the rest of the playerbase. Watch the use of carriers go down in everywhere but hmmmmmmm delve? Watch the use of rorquals crash as you have absolutely obliterated the risk reward for smaller groups that may not be able to defend there space as much or nearly to the same level as well as say....goons? It is absolutely disgusting that all of your patch cycles factor in one group of people and what about the rest of us? Get ** and sell your rorq and carrier? Rorq = not cost effective anymore for smaller groups Carrier = no longer pvp viable Eve community that isnt goonswarm? Get ****. And the sad thing is that Goons won't be affected nearly as bad as these smaller entities either, so it's like swinging a bat trying to hit someone and the innocent dude standing nearby gets clobbered instead. Great job CCP. This is an idea that's on par with fuzzy (Fozzie) sov mechanics that have ground space-exchange and warfare to a stop.
Sadr Dillinger Nulli-Secundus Covert Logistical Oversight Alliance of Kabbalists 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 11:04:00 - [1512] - Quote The 'no cyno' change to carriers really just takes the bloody biscuit in adding insult to injury. Play your own game for crying out loud!
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 12	Posted - 2017.06.11 11:09:45 - [1513] - Quote Sadr Dillinger wrote: The 'no cyno' change to carriers really just takes the bloody biscuit in adding insult to injury. Play your own game for crying out loud! Bad decision making slackers like CCP would get crushed and rolled over in their own game.
HugoRich HugoRich Corporation 28	Posted - 2017.06.11 11:11:59 - [1514] - Quote I remember an old mmorpg from 2006 and ppl still play there, with updates ppl get more tank/heal/dps and new challendge to use it, not the same old stuff with a endless nerf, coz that just looks stupid and noone would play it. If u taking smth from players u shud give smth instead otherways u just rob em. -ò-ü-+-+ -â -¦-¦-ü -+-¦-é -+-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-¦-+, -ì-é-+ -¦-ë-¦ -+-¦ -+-+-¦-ç-+-é, -ç-é-+ -P-+-+ -+-¦ -¦-¦-+-+ -+-¦ -ü-+-¦-¦-Å-é.
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 8	Posted - 2017.06.11 11:48:55 - [1515] - Quote Sadr Dillinger wrote: The 'no cyno' change to carriers really just takes the bloody biscuit in adding insult to injury. Play your own game for crying out loud! I haven't seen a post about removing cynos from carriers, do you have a link?
Crash 888 TRINTEX 15	Posted - 2017.06.11 11:58:47 - [1516] - Quote Molun Darnus wrote: ALL of this comes down to 1 mistake from CCP, skill injectors, there wouldn't be half the super/titan/rorq pilots in eve if it wasn't for them.....and now we the players take the fall for it.. YOU broke eve, and now you are trying to fix it in the only way you know how...the nerf bat! GJ o/ and without injectors the remaining half that can pilot them get to use broken nonsense like rr archons for YEARS before any change is made now all scrubs can abuse the broken thing equally so of course certain groups don't like the injectors
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 22	Posted - 2017.06.11 12:26:37 - [1517] - Quote Crash 888 wrote: Molun Darnus wrote: ALL of this comes down to 1 mistake from CCP, skill injectors, there wouldn't be half the super/titan/rorq pilots in eve if it wasn't for them.....and now we the players take the fall for it.. YOU broke eve, and now you are trying to fix it in the only way you know how...the nerf bat! GJ o/ and without injectors the remaining half that can pilot them get to use broken nonsense like rr archons for YEARS before any change is made now all scrubs can abuse the broken thing equally so of course certain groups don't like the injectors And without injectors, the char bazaar would not have turned into a cess pool. Also people would not be able to rush into caps, train and buy one, but be unprepared.
sakpuncher Angry Rock Killers Inc. Serrice Council. 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 12:29:00 - [1518] - Quote hmm. so let me get this strait. a friend of mine got into a null alliance and got me to come back to the game. i could finally get somewhere and be able to play a game i love and make the isk to plex my account each month with my limited schedule. cool sounds awsome i come back to the game and start training one char tward rorqual and one twards carrier. excited that i finally am going to be able to sustain more then just playing during all my free time only to plex and play with all my free time again just to plex. was thrilled that i actually might have some isk to spend for pvp. which i also love. the rorqual nerf came. well not a huge deal im nowhere near the isk needed to get that setup yet but the carrier is within reach. i can make the money for the rorq when i can fly that right? train my skills for 3 months (rorq and carrier still respectivly. was still training rorq so i could fly it when i was able to make isk with my carrier toon) here i am. 3 weeks away from carrier. already building the parts. and this.... well ccp, i think actions speak louder then words. both my accounts have the same e-mail. so please go ahead and check my sub status on both after this post.
Escobar Slim III YOLOSWAGHASHTAGDOLLARBILLZSWIMMINGPOOLICECREAMS 165	Posted - 2017.06.11 12:36:01 - [1519] - Quote I personally believe that the fighters of the nerf are not the true nerrf because they are unable to do as such and in the game the real nerf is the fighters we call the citizens of new eden. the nerf is of them and the suppression is real but this is not nessezerily a bad think because some people in the new eden dont even have maps and are unable to do such as the highsec and some dont even no the lowsec at all said even by press F10 in the game screen. and the new beta is even worst but they still will not no if it was a big flashing dot as the map for the nerfed citizens is truely just an intel channel everywhere in are great univerdse such as in dekline, the wicked creeks, cash, catcsh, clout ring, branch, delf, efrium reach, fade, vennel, stain, the spyer, period bases, curtse and much much more they lose out and is it the fail of the education of the clone children of these regions? what I am trying to say is we can help buy educating the new change and helping our future clones by not display of anger just play game and enjoy and change and make pvp on the game look at players such as the kestrel and the drammel they are stronk in game and can make better fighters if we arm are peopel with them. not fighters and big ships that are in out of reach of 99 percnte of the eve such as the highsec. I think this change will do better for pvp if we do more in the game.
Jade Uisen The Justified Ancients of Mu MU 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 12:37:06 - [1520] - Quote Response to the recent news : Breaking News

sakpuncher Angry Rock Killers Inc. Serrice Council. 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 12:46:23 - [1521] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: blaedin jordan wrote: They're going to lose a lot of money next month once scripts run out, I dont think its gonna be significant. Most crying here that they ll unsub, are just words. Those that will really unsub, wont matter as most of them PLEX their accounts with the billions of ISK from super/carrier ratting. A drop in PLEX price is the only thing that might happen. that so? Account Expires 21 June 2017 - 4:36 am UTC (in 9 days) Account Expires 17 June 2017 - 5:47 pm UTC (in 6 days)
Eternal Night Mikakka The Coalition of Miners FUBAR. 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 12:48:50 - [1522] - Quote This has to be singlehandedly the worst update to an mmo I have seen in nearly a decade. These nerfs are based on highly inaccurate data using extreme outliers in order to create the illusion of a problem that doesn't exist. Carrier and super ratting is not the issue here, the actual problem lies with the entire PVE system of eve online. The solution to this so called isk faucet is not nerfing an entire shipline to the point of uselessness. I can't understand why the CCP dev team decided to implement a solution that imbalances the game to the point where battleships can out perform an entire class of ships that take months of dedicated training to skill into (not counting skill injectors). The decision to implement these changes is obviously a rushed and ill thought out. I am surprised any developer could choose to make such a careless decision like this without first consulting their customer base or community representatives such as the CSM. In the past CCP has consulted the community prior to updates such as this, which begs the question why they wouldn't have given the community time to discuss these changes with the dev team. The only other game I have played that showed this same disconnect from their community and made drastic changes like this over"RMT" and "inflation" was Runescape back in 2007. During this time Jagex (the developers of Runescape for the few who don't know) took similar measures as the one we are seeing here, instead of addressing the actual problems with their game at the time they decided to completely strip entire features from the game. Starting with the removal of PVP via the wilderness which had a similar high risk high reward PVP gameplay we have, and ending with the removal of free trade between players and replacing it with a harshly limited system. Not surprisingly these changes, and Jagexs utter disregard of the community caused outrage and a massive drop in subscriptions. To this day, Runescape hasn't recovered from this even after they reversed these decisions in 2011. The damage is done. I hate to think about this, but I see CCP taking this in the same direction Jagex did in 2007. They are ignoring their consumers, they are ignoring the actual problems with the game, they are ignoring the obvious imbalances in the game, and worst of all they are refusing to come to a rational and meaningful solution. Most will argue the changes over the past 3 years are the bulk of their concern and this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Don't get me wrong for me this this definitely broke my camel's back, however for me my complaints start with the pheobe changes and fozzie doc, because it is around this time CCP began to ignore their customers again after the whole monocle riots in 2011. All of these changes were exactly like the changes Jagex made in the past. Brute forced methods that only treat the symptoms, not the root of the issue. Fozzie sov has made the game more stagnant and boring than ever, the jump drive changes, while i will admit were necessary to an extent, make getting an outright chore. What's worse is any negative feedback about these updates has been either outright ignored or held in contempt by CCP. Which isn't an attitude a developer should have towards their players. CCP, your players are your customers why are you treating your customers with outright disrespect like this. This is unprofessional and totally unacceptable. Honestly if it weren't for the fact I LOVE the friends I made in this game and I LOVE the corp I run, I would have unsubscribed outright. Instead you're picking and only have to deal with losing 4 out of my 5 subs. Anyway I will stop here before I continue to get petty. My point here is that you need to listen to your customers CCP, and actually look into finding real meaningful solutions. Not just useless patch and fix methods that ultimately destroy the game. TL;DR Listen to your customer base CCP, don't be Jagex and ruin it with stupid brute force fixes. Also **** this update
AlexKent KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 39	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:01:36 - [1523] - Quote RangerAgrius wrote: Please just come out and admit. EVERY FUCKIN PATCH CYCLE will be determined by what goons do next. I feel like there is a theme here. Im sick of this **. Sick and tired of CCP factoring in one group of people to determine what the entirety of the patch is going to affect without looking at the rest of the playerbase. Watch the use of carriers go down in everywhere but hmmmmmmm delve? Watch the use of rorquals crash as you have absolutely obliterated the risk reward for smaller groups that may not be able to defend there space as much or nearly to the same level as well as say....goons? It is absolutely disgusting that all of your patch cycles factor in one group of people and what about the rest of us? Get ** and sell your rorq and carrier? Rorq = not cost effective anymore for smaller groups Carrier = no longer pvp viable Eve community that isnt goonswarm? Get ****. Poor Razor, they won't be able to PvP in their carriers anymore because of this nerf. Like that ever happened in the last five years. Sucks having to pay rent doesn't it?
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 26	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:13:47 - [1524] - Quote AlexKent wrote: RangerAgrius wrote: Please just come out and admit. EVERY FUCKIN PATCH CYCLE will be determined by what goons do next. I feel like there is a theme here. Im sick of this **. Sick and tired of CCP factoring in one group of people to determine what the entirety of the patch is going to affect without looking at the rest of the playerbase. Watch the use of carriers go down in everywhere but hmmmmmmm delve? Watch the use of rorquals crash as you have absolutely obliterated the risk reward for smaller groups that may not be able to defend there space as much or nearly to the same level as well as say....goons? It is absolutely disgusting that all of your patch cycles factor in one group of people and what about the rest of us? Get ** and sell your rorq and carrier? Rorq = not cost effective anymore for smaller groups Carrier = no longer pvp viable Eve community that isnt goonswarm? Get ****. Poor Razor, they won't be able to PvP in their carriers anymore because of this nerf. Like that ever happened in the last five years. Sucks having to pay rent doesn't it? He is not wrong. The nerfs will hurt every other smaller group of players far more than those it is likely intended for. I don't blame any group for playing the game that CCP provide them with though. I blame the content of the game, fozzie sov, skill injectors, citadels to name but a few . Not well thought out at all. I'm not surprised that there are a lot of frustrated people out there, while CCP swings a nerf bat that hurts them.
wouroo Aideron Robotics Federation Uprising 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:13:55 - [1525] - Quote after some thought on the subject, I find it doubtful that this change will so vastly alter the meta of PvP that caps are no longer going to be the top dogs of blob warfare, or ratting bounties. unless of course everyone stops using them simply because of overreaction. except that will not happen either. people in eve tend to only use the best thing for the job, hence everyone using machs, T3Cs and rattles whenever it comes down to serious PvP/PvE. back a while ago, it was ishtars. if carriers and supers are not going to be the best at what they do, then people will change to whatever is. what I see in the meantime is a whole lot of people whining that they are gonna have to figure out how to more creatively do things. glad I play eve for fun and not to actually try and do anything the best
Berreta Hinken Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:18:06 - [1526] - Quote Oh yeah, now I remember why I stopped playing this game.
Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:25:47 - [1527] - Quote sakpuncher wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: blaedin jordan wrote: They're going to lose a lot of money next month once scripts run out, I dont think its gonna be significant. Most crying here that they ll unsub, are just words. Those that will really unsub, wont matter as most of them PLEX their accounts with the billions of ISK from super/carrier ratting. A drop in PLEX price is the only thing that might happen. that so? Account Expires 21 June 2017 - 4:36 am UTC (in 9 days) Account Expires 17 June 2017 - 5:47 pm UTC (in 6 days) Well, can I have your stuff?
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 27	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:28:44 - [1528] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: sakpuncher wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: blaedin jordan wrote: They're going to lose a lot of money next month once scripts run out, I dont think its gonna be significant. Most crying here that they ll unsub, are just words. Those that will really unsub, wont matter as most of them PLEX their accounts with the billions of ISK from super/carrier ratting. A drop in PLEX price is the only thing that might happen. that so? Account Expires 21 June 2017 - 4:36 am UTC (in 9 days) Account Expires 17 June 2017 - 5:47 pm UTC (in 6 days) Well, can I have your stuff? I know quite a few people who have cancelled subs, especially on alts. Sure, most of them will likely keep an account running and throw a plex on it but at the moment they seem quite serious.
Laenatus ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 9	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:48:19 - [1529] - Quote You guys think CCP will address us pleibs before having their censorship brigade lock the thread again? Hmmmmmmm
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 4	Posted - 2017.06.11 13:52:45 - [1530] - Quote Laenatus wrote: You guys think CCP will address us pleibs before having their censorship brigade lock the thread again? Hmmmmmmm At this moment in time, i can see this going both ways. Either the Patch hits without a single comment or they are scrambling right now to go over their data again and decide if they remove the nerf. But the lack of communication is greatly disheartening, that's for sure.

Bruce Destro Global Dominance Initiative 18	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:09:37 - [1531] - Quote Assaj Ventress wrote: Limit all PVE sites/anomalies to subcaps (including L5 missions) yup, this is what i was saying. buff the anoms a bit, and drop an acceleration gate in them until you can place reactive strategic npc's in them and force us to rat with 2 or 3 people.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5934	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:14:10 - [1532] - Quote Just my 2+º Make rats kill more drones/fighters. A drone boat without drones is useless, specially an AFK drone boat. Dead drones/fighters would become a larger sink and would limit the run time for a specific anomaly since the ratter would need to refill its stocks.
Drago Misharie Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 20	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:20:25 - [1533] - Quote Why don't they make Null Sec Anoms Escalate when a carrier warps in to slow them down instead of nerfing the fighters? For every carrier that warps in you get NPC Carrier and Logi, warp in 3 carriers and you get triple the dps being applied. That's a better way to balance. Make it more time consuming and challenging to pilots.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 23	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:33:36 - [1534] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Just my 2+º Make rats kill more drones/fighters. A drone boat without drones is useless, specially an AFK drone boat. Dead drones/fighters would become a larger sink and would limit the run time for a specific anomaly since the ratter would need to refill its stocks. Rats already target fighters like nuts. Any reasonable carrier pilot will never warp at 0 first of all, and just because of proximity, fighters get the aggro most of the time. Also its impossible to afk rat in a carrier unless you want to lose 27 fighters every few anoms, and witj T2's thats not gonna be cheap.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 23	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:34:35 - [1535] - Quote Drago Misharie wrote: Why don't they make Null Sec Anoms Escalate when a carrier warps in to slow them down instead of nerfing the fighters? For every carrier that warps in you get NPC Carrier and Logi, warp in 3 carriers and you get triple the dps being applied. That's a better way to balance. Make it more time consuming and challenging to pilots. I would be down for that, sleeper site rules for escelation.
Krypleria Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 38	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:53:09 - [1536] - Quote Drago Misharie wrote: Why don't they make Null Sec Anoms Escalate when a carrier warps in to slow them down instead of nerfing the fighters? For every carrier that warps in you get NPC Carrier and Logi, warp in 3 carriers and you get triple the dps being applied. That's a better way to balance. Make it more time consuming and challenging to pilots. that actually requires preempitive thinking from the devs.... from what they proposed and done in the past year. The game is clearly getting out of their league
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16119	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:55:07 - [1537] - Quote Ezio Sotken wrote: Drago Misharie wrote: Why don't they make Null Sec Anoms Escalate when a carrier warps in to slow them down instead of nerfing the fighters? For every carrier that warps in you get NPC Carrier and Logi, warp in 3 carriers and you get triple the dps being applied. That's a better way to balance. Make it more time consuming and challenging to pilots. I would be down for that, sleeper site rules for escelation. And like in wh space that would be abused ruthlessly for even higher pay outs...
Trevize Demerzel 99	Posted - 2017.06.11 14:58:05 - [1538] - Quote Krypleria wrote: Drago Misharie wrote: Why don't they make Null Sec Anoms Escalate when a carrier warps in to slow them down instead of nerfing the fighters? For every carrier that warps in you get NPC Carrier and Logi, warp in 3 carriers and you get triple the dps being applied. That's a better way to balance. Make it more time consuming and challenging to pilots. that actually requires preempitive thinking from the devs.... from what they proposed and done in the past year. The game is clearly getting out of their league All eve is now is quick fix and quick buck. -
Grim'Harper WATAHA. Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:16:24 - [1539] - Quote Quote: Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Templar II, Pulse Cannon: Now 79.80 EM Damage / fighter. After changes: 63.84 EM Damage / fighter. Heavy Drone, Praetor II doing now 64 EM Damage. Good work CCP. You again make stupid changes. Maybe now is time to reduce the subscription price?
Kayanarka Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:18:01 - [1540] - Quote I hate to say it, but this fix is actually working for CCP. Instead of activly playing the game for 2 hours with one character via carrier ratting, I will now sub 4 characters and AFK my VNI's for 8 hours while I complete house chores. CCP gets more money from my additional subs and even though I am AFK I show 3 additional toons logged in for longer so it looks like player base is more active. I am still butt hurt over the kill injector thing, used to mean something being from 2005. All I hear in mumble now is people talk about injecting this and that, makes me sick. Of course I make good money so I am not bothered by the nerf, I can afford to sub the accounts and even buy plex for isk if needed. The downside for me to this change is that I found the new fighter mechanics fun. I was starting to enjoy making my isk to buy PVP ships for and I was looking forward to getting my FAX trained up. So for me, it just went back to being a boring game again except for the now rare pvp events. So, I will probably stop playing soon again.

Liu Mikakka Solaris Operations Forever Unbound 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:22:49 - [1541] - Quote 1: CCP Listen to You're Community!!!! 2: I would bet with this Change a lot of people/Pilots will be trying to Sell off there Carriers and Super Carriers, thus killing the Combat Capital Market. 3: Just Stop and Think how many pilots/people use Carriers and Supers to PvE to buy PLEX, Thus again less Sells in PLEX, Less Money for CCP. 4: I WONT LIKE THIS CHANGE !
Valdr Auduin CatPack 4	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:24:55 - [1542] - Quote Xiaodown wrote: Why is there so much isk? http://i.imgur.com/0oJO5xQ.jpg :thinking: Sudden thought: nations now have internal economies, bounty payouts drop according to luxury capital available, bind this somehow to faction warfare where territory gains increase bounty payouts in the superior nation per 'treasury income cycle' and vice versa
Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:28:00 - [1543] - Quote Kayanarka wrote: I hate to say it, but this fix is actually working for CCP. Instead of activly playing the game for 2 hours with one character via carrier ratting, I will now sub 4 characters and AFK my VNI's for 8 hours while I complete house chores. CCP gets more money from my additional subs and even though I am AFK I show 3 additional toons logged in for longer so it looks like player base is more active. I am still butt hurt over the kill injector thing, used to mean something being from 2005. All I hear in mumble now is people talk about injecting this and that, makes me sick. Of course I make good money so I am not bothered by the nerf, I can afford to sub the accounts and even buy plex for isk if needed. The downside for me to this change is that I found the new fighter mechanics fun. I was starting to enjoy making my isk to buy PVP ships for and I was looking forward to getting my FAX trained up. So for me, it just went back to being a boring game again except for the now rare pvp events. So, I will probably stop playing soon again. Cool, it will balance those that unsub.
Kayanarka Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:37:08 - [1544] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Kayanarka wrote: I hate to say it, but this fix is actually working for CCP. Instead of activly playing the game for 2 hours with one character via carrier ratting, I will now sub 4 characters and AFK my VNI's for 8 hours while I complete house chores. CCP gets more money from my additional subs and even though I am AFK I show 3 additional toons logged in for longer so it looks like player base is more active. I am still butt hurt over the kill injector thing, used to mean something being from 2005. All I hear in mumble now is people talk about injecting this and that, makes me sick. Of course I make good money so I am not bothered by the nerf, I can afford to sub the accounts and even buy plex for isk if needed. The downside for me to this change is that I found the new fighter mechanics fun. I was starting to enjoy making my isk to buy PVP ships for and I was looking forward to getting my FAX trained up. So for me, it just went back to being a boring game again except for the now rare pvp events. So, I will probably stop playing soon again. Cool, it will balance those that unsub. Yeah, except that I will then unsub once I get bored not playing my carrier anymore.
Farrow Tsasa Black Omega Security Mercenary Coalition 3	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:51:59 - [1545] - Quote Apologies if this has already been raised.... But why not put an acceleration gate on the entrance to the anoms - its in line with Escalations/Scanned sites. Set the gate to reject capitals - if capital ratting is such an issue. I don't feel that supers are too OP in PVP in their current state, even if they were slightly OP it is a 25b investment and you expect some return! Give us a reason to fight (instead of grinding all the time) if you really want to make changes!
Trevize Demerzel 99	Posted - 2017.06.11 15:54:57 - [1546] - Quote ISD Max Trix wrote: 33. "Quitting" posts are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience channel. CCP recognize that during the course of gameplay a lot of friendships are made between players and that sometimes if a player is taking a break or departing from the EVE universe that they would like to say goodbye on the forums. Posts of this nature are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum, and must be civil and well worded. You've erroneously removed posts of people who said they are unsubscribing. Unsubscribing is simply going free to play, it is not quitting. I've unsubscribed 9 accounts because of this change. I have not quit. It's free to play frigs in space. So there is no longer any point and paying real life money for Eve. I wonder how many pages this forum post would be now if all the unsubbing posts were not removed. That said my post that was removed had many suggestions on this topic. Much that I put a great deal of thought into. So nice to have the entire thing removed since I simple said I was unsubbing my accounts. And again, I never said "quit". CCP created this distinction with plex. One does not have to be a subscriber to play Eve. Feel free to remove forum posts that disobey the rules, but also recognize the difference between "unsub" and "quit". And since I just discussed forum moderation this post will likely be removed too. Welcome, to the not listening draconian state of Eve. -
Valdr Auduin CatPack 4	Posted - 2017.06.11 16:03:54 - [1547] - Quote The newest intro cinematic had me thinking Nations might be taking the war to the alliances, with pirates getting their reactive fitting AI installed it seemed even more likely that you'd see Amarr battlegroups purifying their turf of capitals or something- instead it's Jove messing with the nanites.
Longtooth Secret Fire Living Breathing Fuel Blocks 10	Posted - 2017.06.11 16:09:06 - [1548] - Quote ISD Max Trix wrote: 33. "Quitting" posts are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience channel. CCP recognize that during the course of gameplay a lot of friendships are made between players and that sometimes if a player is taking a break or departing from the EVE universe that they would like to say goodbye on the forums. Posts of this nature are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum, and must be civil and well worded. Hey Max Trix I'm quitting your game. ** you. your ** dev team. your ** game. ** your censorship.
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2017.06.11 16:11:50 - [1549] - Quote I've just unsubbed 9 accounts but I am not quiting. Frigates for the win!
xOmGx Order of Order SOLAR FLEET 19	Posted - 2017.06.11 16:39:12 - [1550] - Quote LOL CCP you are greate @ working 2 days before patch and its not even changed on TEST server lel so we can test nothing at all..... wonderfull "friday midday" last minute patch "what can we screw up in eve even more?" and someone came up with super idea to.. nerf things that are working just fine

Spit Fighter Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 16:40:18 - [1551] - Quote You should probably give 500% drone bonus to frigates and cruisers, because that's all that CCP wants us to use, apparently.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16123	Posted - 2017.06.11 16:45:55 - [1552] - Quote Farrow Tsasa wrote: Apologies if this has already been raised.... But why not put an acceleration gate on the entrance to the anoms - its in line with Escalations/Scanned sites. Set the gate to reject capitals - if capital ratting is such an issue. I don't feel that supers are too OP in PVP in their current state, even if they were slightly OP it is a 25b investment and you expect some return! Give us a reason to fight (instead of grinding all the time) if you really want to make changes! It's been brought up, its a bad idea because it makes subcapital ratters WAY too safe. You are supposed to be safe in a null sec system that has infinitely respawning anomalies. Plus the fact that having to take a gate takes time which lowers the income of the sub caps still able to do anomalies. CCP is making the right choice for once. I used to run Forsaken Hubs from when they were added to the game until CCP changed them. CCP changed them because Tracking Titans and Super Carriers could exploit them to the toon of 300-500 mil per hour. So CCP added frigates to the one Anomalies that didn't spawn frigates, just to curb the tracking titans. In other words they screwed over EVERYONE because Titan pilots figured out a way to exploit an anomaly. CCP replicated the tracing titan problem with their new "fighter squadrons" (a problem then exacerbated by skill injectors and the ease of training up a character to carrier/supercarrier rat). THIS time they are actually fixing the broken thing causing the problem instead screwing those of us who use sub caps for ratting but changing the anomalies.
Soulis Sectar Moosearmy Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 16:57:34 - [1553] - Quote Grim'Harper wrote: Quote: Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Templar II, Pulse Cannon: Now 79.80 EM Damage / fighter. After changes: 63.84 EM Damage / fighter. Heavy Drone, Praetor II doing now 64 EM Damage. Good work CCP. You again make stupid changes. Maybe now is time to reduce the subscription price? This is true.(the damage part)... however.. no one can fly 27 Praetors. I'll still be able to effectively rat In my carrier and still get 45-50mil ticks. I'm more upset at the fighter aggro number at this point. No more t2 fighters out for me.
Nasar Vyron S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 240	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:02:59 - [1554] - Quote xOmGx wrote: LOL CCP you are greate @ working 2 days before patch and its not even changed on TEST server lel so we can test nothing at all..... wonderfull "friday midday" last minute patch "what can we screw up in eve even more?" and someone came up with super idea to.. nerf things that are working just fine I'll give you a hint. Super and carrier blobs are going to chew through dreads with impunity just as they do now. Carriers will still do more damage than a damage fit BB with cruiser level tracking and a capital tank to boot. Super's will now be under titans in paper dps, but still way over on applied damage to anything non-capital (or moving). You will be fine. Don't fall for the crying sobs that just see their shiny toy being touched that are screaming that it's the end of days. If you want to complain about sov, go right ahead. I'm there with you.
Radkiel HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 13	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:06:00 - [1555] - Quote Soulis Sectar wrote: Grim'Harper wrote: Quote: Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Templar II, Pulse Cannon: Now 79.80 EM Damage / fighter. After changes: 63.84 EM Damage / fighter. Heavy Drone, Praetor II doing now 64 EM Damage. Good work CCP. You again make stupid changes. Maybe now is time to reduce the subscription price? This is true.(the damage part)... however.. no one can fly 27 Praetors. I'll still be able to effectively rat In my carrier and still get 45-50mil ticks. I'm more upset at the fighter aggro number at this point. No more t2 fighters out for me. Completely agree the aggro component adds insult to injury.
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 28	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:14:40 - [1556] - Quote BAHKO21pyc wrote: Dear CCP, i want to express gratitude for this changes! All last changes were boosting cap/supercap ratting segment. You have forgotten abou porr solo/small scale pvp players long time ago. We can't ge figth without cap blob in grid at all. All small scale pvp is dying, and its pissing us off. And all that pain and suffering of carebears is the most amazing thing that you did in these latter days. I'll be very grateful to you if you do more nerf for caps/supers (especially in damage aplication against subcaps). There is can't be balance with that overboosted cap fleet. Caps must fight with other caps. Hi, as someone that did and still does "elite small gang" PvP, I think if you and the crowd that you belong to took all the time you spend whining about "OP carriers/supers" and put it into learning to use effective counters like bringing a kitsune or two with you when you roam, you would have much better results.
Cepheus Antollare Gravitas Logistics S.E.C.T.I.O.N. 8 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:17:38 - [1557] - Quote quick question...... why not just add a role penalty whereby carriers get -10% less ISK from rat bounties OR give rats a damage resistance to fighter damage?
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 22	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:22:21 - [1558] - Quote Longtooth wrote: ISD Max Trix wrote: 33. "Quitting" posts are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience channel. CCP recognize that during the course of gameplay a lot of friendships are made between players and that sometimes if a player is taking a break or departing from the EVE universe that they would like to say goodbye on the forums. Posts of this nature are only permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum, and must be civil and well worded. Hey Max Trix I'm quitting your game. ** you. your ** dev team. your ** game. ** your censorship. CCP Out of touch and ISD Members are power hungry. CCP Needs this wake up call.
xJillianx Nothing on Dscan 3	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:37:08 - [1559] - Quote please no. turn back now.
Aleverette Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 22	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:39:22 - [1560] - Quote Well it seems like the time that we better distinct EVE and CCP into two things. EVE: Good and cool CCP: The true bad guys in New Eden* *Except for the art guys, they are amazing :)

Nick Actilete SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore 16	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:52:14 - [1561] - Quote Tread carefully CCP... this was a poor idea :P
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 24	Posted - 2017.06.11 17:57:56 - [1562] - Quote No testing, nothing on Singularity or Duality, and what does this mean? 1. Patch goes to plan ( doubtful) 2. A typo or other mistake causes the nerf to be much worse ( eg, 80% instead of 20%) 3. The nerfs are less then expected ( lets say 10% instead of 20%) Either way, expect nothing to go to plan since NO TESTING was done
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 12	Posted - 2017.06.11 18:07:40 - [1563] - Quote ISD squad is an obstruction to any sense on these forums. Having immature person in a position of power always leads to disaster.
Atrinos Ordo Teeutonicus Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 18:10:07 - [1564] - Quote The dev Team really have nuts. The Last time they decided to bring such **** online was the walking in Stations Feature. They completely ignored any other problems and the Player base just raged out. Who was part of the Monument shooting in jita? This time it could be much worse. And also the CSM team proofed the be completely incompetent.... Lets see how this will end this time.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1523	Posted - 2017.06.11 18:38:47 - [1565] - Quote Atrinos wrote: The dev Team really have nuts. The Last time they decided to bring such **** online was the walking in Stations Feature. They completely ignored any other problems and the Player base just raged out. Who was part of the Monument shooting in jita? This time it could be much worse. And also the CSM team proofed the be completely incompetent.... Lets see how this will end this time. Renter trash not understanding how the CSM works. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Xuan Menzoberanza Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 15	Posted - 2017.06.11 18:44:03 - [1566] - Quote CCP pulled EA style treatment on us. I mean what happened with dialog that was between CCP and customers? There was supposed to be some connection here ??? Where is testing, did anyone actually test those changes and how they affect PvP ? PVE is not main goal of Eve Online Where is CSM ? Why they were not part of this decision, like really, CCP you didn't even bother to inform them You did drop bomb on friday and went on weekend brake, leaving us with 1% of 1% reply, 260m ticks and multiboxing supers. So we did Haze and we will keep hazing you, on forums and Reddit. Many of us, did try to find solutions and give you ideas (not talking about ideas in this topic) on how to fix OR prevent current situation with SOV, lack of interest in conflicts and so on ... and you just decide to go around all of that, showing middle finger. I don't care if carriers and supers will end up doing 0% dps to rats, but making changes to PVP due to fact something is too powerful in PVE is "world of warcraft" style not EVE ONLINE, and lack of communication with players is just slap in face. I'm overheating my "HTFU" but there is a limit of heat I can take. Stop acting like EA .. you were ... you ARE better then that
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 644	Posted - 2017.06.11 18:56:27 - [1567] - Quote CCP reports there is way too much isk being earned by the use of carriers and supers using fighters. incoming nerf, and people are surprised what happens, same ole shite, threats of withdrawing subs, people shoot at monuments, threadnoughts like this begin. one thing i do not like is how this is being done. very short notice. no testing on sisi. CSM, where they even notified? one thing is for sure, such a drastic measure on such short notice means there is something really broken. if that is the case then you all need to shut your whine holes and deal with what's coming. not the first time we've faced a nerf and all we can do is trust CCP, it is there company after all and there is no reason for anyone to believe they'd do this without reason.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 36	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:13:55 - [1568] - Quote Skill injectors fuked up the basics of this game at the first place. Than all the sudden a lot of players started playing "end content" stuff and this happened. Remove skill injectors, make real end content for EVE and problem solved.
Dan Sever XAOS RELOADED Legion of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:14:09 - [1569] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Fanfest is over...tickets are sold, now they want (force) us to buy something else... Well...let's pull the alpha VNIs out and let the afk farm begin. Since when a VNI is an alpha ship? ...
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 37	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:17:07 - [1570] - Quote Dan Sever wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Fanfest is over...tickets are sold, now they want (force) us to buy something else... Well...let's pull the alpha VNIs out and let the afk farm begin. Since when a VNI is an alpha ship? ... Since your pilot is gallente.

RKJakTup Giggling Bandits Just let it happen 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:23:23 - [1571] - Quote All yall talk about is Risk = Reward if we are in cap and supercap then the risk in isk we are puting out is high. so we want the ships should be strong. and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve so the 15% is BS. all of this is BS. and all the CSM on here saying oh "good work". or "nice changes" are the biggest trolls in eve.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:24:53 - [1572] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Man these new players are whiny ass bitches. No really. I was days away from getting into a nano Ishtar when CCP nerfed nano HACs. Did I come to the forums and rage like a punk ass *****? No. I just moved on and re-organized my skill queue. You guys are nothing but goddamned wimps and cry babies. Oh a blue blue blue...CCP ruined my plans. What are you? 12? Wait, 12 year old girls? Seriously, those of you whining because you wanted to earn buckets of ISK and thereby destroy the purchasing power of other players' ISK...please simply FOADIAF...literally. Some of them are in your alliance. :D
RKJakTup Giggling Bandits Just let it happen 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:27:27 - [1573] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Fanfest is over...tickets are sold, now they want (force) us to buy something else... Well...let's pull the alpha VNIs out and let the afk farm begin. Since when a VNI is an alpha ship? ... Since your pilot is gallente. Think he was talking about alpha clones afk farming?
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 645	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:29:08 - [1574] - Quote Minerva Arbosa wrote: We the player base is the reason they still have something to work on. Honestly if carriers are such a big problem for ratting then why not remove the fighter damage bonus feom the Nodhoggur and the Tahantos rather than nerding on Citadels as well. Citadels already have extremely weak defenses to push attackers off. They don't need to be merged more without some sort of compensatory buff in other form of damage. i agree with you on it hurting more than carriers and the effect it's going to have on citadels. but that's a different debate. even though they use them citadels need some lovin but it's a seperate issue. thing is, both of these items we speak of are rather new, and i'm not surprised they'd change sooner or later, this time around it's oh shite we gotta fix this now with the fighters, but with citadels it's they're not bad and players can defend them in ships. perhaps up the amount of fighters a citadel can fly ?
Aldent Arkanon Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 28	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:29:14 - [1575] - Quote RKJakTup wrote: all the CSM on here saying oh "good work". or "nice changes" are the biggest trolls in eve. The only CSMs I've seen saying that are the ones who don't know anything about capitals because they have 0 capital experience.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:39:31 - [1576] - Quote Aldent Arkanon wrote: RKJakTup wrote: all the CSM on here saying oh "good work". or "nice changes" are the biggest trolls in eve. The only CSMs I've seen saying that are the ones who don't know anything about capitals because they have 0 capital experience. Read: Solo PVPers speaking for capital pilots.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 37	Posted - 2017.06.11 19:44:32 - [1577] - Quote RKJakTup wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Dan Sever wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Fanfest is over...tickets are sold, now they want (force) us to buy something else... Well...let's pull the alpha VNIs out and let the afk farm begin. Since when a VNI is an alpha ship? ... Since your pilot is gallente. Think he was talking about alpha clones afk farming? It is not optimal, but i'll give it a shot. ;) Anyways...i think i know what is going on right here guys... CCP either smar af and have a loooong term plan doing these kind of things = boost rorquals, make everyone fly them than nerf...make a lot of players jump into carriers than nerf...now force some subberdubbers to a different gameplay (vni's, incus...etc.) than they will nerf that as well... /instead of making real concent to the game/ ....or they are just stupid.
Atrinos Ordo Teeutonicus Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:00:53 - [1578] - Quote Linus Gorp wrote: Atrinos wrote: The dev Team really have nuts. The Last time they decided to bring such ** online was the walking in Stations Feature. They completely ignored any other problems and the Player base just raged out. Who was part of the Monument shooting in jita? This time it could be much worse. And also the CSM team proofed the be completely incompetent.... Lets see how this will end this time. Renter trash not understanding how the CSM works. I don't give a single ** about what you were thinking about Reuters. We are Part of the Player base and we are also allowed to vote Go to reddit there are much more ppl thinking Like i am that this changes are stupid. Or just read this thread
HugoRich HugoRich Corporation 30	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:07:34 - [1579] - Quote Main isks comes from a game in 20 windows mining, any cap can reach that proffit? Ah, dont think so. Meanwhile there will be update with an optimization, duhh, to play in 30 windows. Yea all evil comes from a cap ships -ò-ü-+-+ -â -¦-¦-ü -+-¦-é -+-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-¦-+, -ì-é-+ -¦-ë-¦ -+-¦ -+-+-¦-ç-+-é, -ç-é-+ -P-+-+ -+-¦ -¦-¦-+-+ -+-¦ -ü-+-¦-¦-Å-é.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 10	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:11:12 - [1580] - Quote Eternal Night Mikakka wrote: This has to be singlehandedly the worst update to an mmo I have seen in nearly a decade. These nerfs are based on highly inaccurate data using extreme outliers in order to create the illusion of a problem that doesn't exist. Carrier and super ratting is not the issue here, the actual problem lies with the entire PVE system of eve online. The solution to this so called isk faucet is not nerfing an entire shipline to the point of uselessness. I can't understand why the CCP dev team decided to implement a solution that imbalances the game to the point where battleships can out perform an entire class of ships that take months of dedicated training to skill into (not counting skill injectors). The decision to implement these changes is obviously a rushed and ill thought out. I am surprised any developer could choose to make such a careless decision like this without first consulting their customer base or community representatives such as the CSM. In the past CCP has consulted the community prior to updates such as this, which begs the question why they wouldn't have given the community time to discuss these changes with the dev team. The only other game I have played that showed this same disconnect from their community and made drastic changes like this over"RMT" and "inflation" was Runescape back in 2007. During this time Jagex (the developers of Runescape for the few who don't know) took similar measures as the one we are seeing here, instead of addressing the actual problems with their game at the time they decided to completely strip entire features from the game. Starting with the removal of PVP via the wilderness which had a similar high risk high reward PVP gameplay we have, and ending with the removal of free trade between players and replacing it with a harshly limited system. Not surprisingly these changes, and Jagexs utter disregard of the community caused outrage and a massive drop in subscriptions. To this day, Runescape hasn't recovered from this even after they reversed these decisions in 2011. The damage is done. I hate to think about this, but I see CCP taking this in the same direction Jagex did in 2007. They are ignoring their consumers, they are ignoring the actual problems with the game, they are ignoring the obvious imbalances in the game, and worst of all they are refusing to come to a rational and meaningful solution. Most will argue the changes over the past 3 years are the bulk of their concern and this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Don't get me wrong for me this this definitely broke my camel's back, however for me my complaints start with the pheobe changes and fozzie doc, because it is around this time CCP began to ignore their customers again after the whole monocle riots in 2011. All of these changes were exactly like the changes Jagex made in the past. Brute forced methods that only treat the symptoms, not the root of the issue. Fozzie sov has made the game more stagnant and boring than ever, the jump drive changes, while i will admit were necessary to an extent, make getting an outright chore. What's worse is any negative feedback about these updates has been either outright ignored or held in contempt by CCP. Which isn't an attitude a developer should have towards their players. CCP, your players are your customers why are you treating your customers with outright disrespect like this. This is unprofessional and totally unacceptable. Honestly if it weren't for the fact I LOVE the friends I made in this game and I LOVE the corp I run, I would have unsubscribed outright. Instead you're picking and only have to deal with losing 4 out of my 5 subs. Anyway I will stop here before I continue to get petty. My point here is that you need to listen to your customers CCP, and actually look into finding real meaningful solutions. Not just useless patch and fix methods that ultimately destroy the game. TL;DR Listen to your customer base CCP, don't be Jagex and ruin it with stupid brute force fixes. Also **** this update Go look at Crunch Base ... see the investments from New Enterprise Associates and Novator? See when CCP started giving no cares about the players? What's 1+1=?

Skill Deficiency Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:11:22 - [1581] - Quote RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this draw back and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size.
evil pride DeadMan's Squad Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:23:41 - [1582] - Quote Ok ccp. Can you think you can nerfing the anomaly and not the fighter and the super carrier. The cartier was a big crap before the last patch. Now he is good and doing a good dps and can be dangerous. This is NORMAL for a capital ship. If you want to nerf something, nerf the anomaly. Incrase the number of fregate in sanctum and haven or remove the right for the carrier to warp in all anom under haven. Carrier can warp only in sanctum anom. So the subcap are free to rat all the anom. EXEMPLE: now i do 65m/20mins with my thanatos. Before the patch i doing 55m with 2 acount/20 min with thanatos and dominix with sentry. Now the carrier is a good capital ship since you reduce the range of jumping. Dont nerf the cap one more time. If you are a good fc you can kill a carrier with a interceptor fleet. Dont forget, the bad thing with the carrier and super carrier is if you kill all ther fighter they are armless and he need backup or he die.
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 10	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:25:22 - [1583] - Quote Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 38	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:44:39 - [1584] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. I bet you would do the same thing in PVP as well.. gf
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 11	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:47:17 - [1585] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. I bet you would do the same thing in PVP as well.. gf I try and avoid multiboxing PVP honestly - I'm not fast enough on the controls and client switching to be effective at it unless I'm part of the blob and all I have to do is set anchor and pew the calls.
Tobias Frank 61	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:54:04 - [1586] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. Use a Rorqual.
Radkiel HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 13	Posted - 2017.06.11 20:54:52 - [1587] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. What ship are you using?
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 39	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:02:39 - [1588] - Quote Radkiel wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. What ship are you using? Peeps, we are getting off topic here. This thing is not about making more isk or at least the same ammount of isk...it is about killing a capital class in a second. This s not about the "too much isk is in the game bullsh*t". It is about something else. Btw...deleting posts shows that at least one dev/mod reads our comments here...still no statement from CCP.
Hannele Lohtander Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:04:00 - [1589] - Quote Hi all. First of all I have never flown a carrier so all this is above my head but nerfed fighters or not isn't the problem as usual ISK inflation and trying to give new players a chance to catch up the old ones? All this talk about skill injectors isn't there a separate thread for that? Wasn't you, CCP, trying to make some rats more tactical, rational, human-like, whatever? So you cant park a carrier there and leave for lunch?
CoffinQueen Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 18	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:14:24 - [1590] - Quote Portia Venice wrote: CCP, I can't for the life of me figure out why this is a good change. The last 2 years in a row ISK making opportunities have been major nerfed. In order to plex my account i have to spend more time playing this game. I understand you have to make money but so do i to keep playing. If it becomes an issue where i cannot keep playing due to ISK method Nerf (continuous) than i will no longer be able to play eve. This isn't a grr you post or a angry post, its a real problem i foresee for many players my self alike. Super ratting was the only reason for me to move out to NULL to be with Goonswarm. You nerf all of Null (ore atoms, Ratting) but you do not touch High security space Incursions? .... Yes i post terribly I'm sorry. pathetic alliance outed by pathetic alliance member, thank you for that, made me smile @topic/CCP I understand that you think we have too much money and thats probably true. But you should think of other ways to limit this trend. I suggest one or some of the following: make bounties smaller by 10-20%. Make carriers/supers unable to warp until 5-10 minutes after shooting the last rat (forced break in grinding money and also expecting more dead supers/carriers ). Make the fighters use some kind of expensive fuel, ammo or something else that cuts from the ratting income.

Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 11	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:16:45 - [1591] - Quote Radkiel wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. What ship are you using? Seems most anything "can" work but to take advantage of the rat preferences - they hate logi / indy ships most - and they despise any form of active logi or boosting. The noctis doesn't have enough tank at least the way i've tried so far to just sit and take it, but if I manage it while I manage the carrier I can clean the anom as I do it. I'm thinking of maybe trying a scorpion next to see if I can still generate the same agro while passive tanking the dps.
Radkiel HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 13	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:25:34 - [1592] - Quote Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Radkiel wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. What ship are you using? Seems most anything "can" work but to take advantage of the rat preferences - they hate logi / indy ships most - and they despise any form of active logi or boosting. The noctis doesn't have enough tank at least the way i've tried so far to just sit and take it, but if I manage it while I manage the carrier I can clean the anom as I do it. I'm thinking of maybe trying a scorpion next to see if I can still generate the same agro while passive tanking the dps. Thanks for the advice.
Thomas DeTorquemada Ranger Industries Jamyl Syndicate 0	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:25:36 - [1593] - Quote Ridiculous preteen Mentality.... I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch. Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty. Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 39	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:35:38 - [1594] - Quote Thomas DeTorquemada wrote: Ridiculous preteen Mentality.... I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch. Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty. Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing Until they "figure this out" i'll be long gone for sure. NOTHING guarantees that after they come back CCP just changes it back again. I don't think anyone wants to play with a game in a long run if it is not predictable at least 1%. EVE now is unpredictable in all ways.
Valaba Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 5	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:37:35 - [1595] - Quote If you do this, at the same time how about nerfing permanent cloaky afk players who drop blops fleets on carriers that reside in your system all day. Take away their ability to stay cloaked for 10 hours straight without needing to be at their keyboard. I don't even rat anymore whenever the known hotdroppers are on which changes my Isk to 0/hr already with the carrier. You guys are behind times of whats really going on in Eve. Your data is from too long ago and not current.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 39	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:42:56 - [1596] - Quote Valaba wrote: If you do this, at the same time how about nerfing permanent cloaky afk players who drop blops fleets on carriers that reside in your system all day. Take away their ability to stay cloaked for 10 hours straight without needing to be at their keyboard. I don't even rat anymore whenever the known hotdroppers are on which changes my Isk to 0/hr already with the carrier. You guys are behind times of whats really going on in Eve. Your data is from too long ago and not current. As we now know from CCP datawhoeverguy, they don't even play their own game for sure. I would be suprised if they know what you are talking about. They only see numbers, data and diagrams. They don't care about player morale and customer statisfaction.
Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:48:33 - [1597] - Quote Thomas DeTorquemada wrote: Ridiculous preteen Mentality.... I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch. Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty. Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Ratters will keep on ratting but you've upset the pvp population way more imo, unjustifiably Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing they dont want nerf all ratting, just carrier/super-ratting thatw OP. I've been watching PLEX prices since this 'uprising' and guess what they are steadily rising. no indication of significant loss of subscribers
CoffinQueen Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 19	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:49:06 - [1598] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Valaba wrote: If you do this, at the same time how about nerfing permanent cloaky afk players who drop blops fleets on carriers that reside in your system all day. Take away their ability to stay cloaked for 10 hours straight without needing to be at their keyboard. I don't even rat anymore whenever the known hotdroppers are on which changes my Isk to 0/hr already with the carrier. You guys are behind times of whats really going on in Eve. Your data is from too long ago and not current. As we now know from CCP datawhoeverguy, they don't even play their own game for sure. I would be suprised if they know what you are talking about. They only see numbers, data and diagrams. They don't care about player morale and customer statisfaction. Yea, everybodie's SO mean in eve.... sniff. Come on CCP, change that, make them play nice.
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:53:53 - [1599] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Radkiel wrote: Ter Jern Wolf wrote: Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this drawback and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. So I found a way to increase my carrier ratting ticks and the math shows it will work post patch. Instead of letting my alt just sit around with her thumb up some orifice or another I stick her in a little angry making agro ship... drop her on the anom first and set off all the agro alarms I can... While I can't guarantee the extra 15% more likely to want to shoot fighters won't change the balance of the agro generators needed to **** the rats off enough to focus on the bait - that is just a matter of tuning. Further since I don't carrier rat on more than one account anyhow - I'm still making the exact same - if not BETTER isk than i was before. so =P CCP. What ship are you using? Peeps, we are getting off topic here. This thing is not about making more isk or at least the same ammount of isk...it is about killing a capital class in a second. This s not about the "too much isk is in the game bullsh*t". It is about something else. Btw...deleting posts shows that at least one dev/mod reads our comments here...still no statement from CCP. I agree. CCP's silence coupled with the very sneaky way this was added in at the last minute is disgusting, I've lost a lot of respect from a company I used to defend--this is just not the way I thought they would ever treat us.
Thomas DeTorquemada Ranger Industries Jamyl Syndicate 2	Posted - 2017.06.11 21:59:32 - [1600] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Thomas DeTorquemada wrote: Ridiculous preteen Mentality.... I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch. Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty. Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Ratters will keep on ratting but you've upset the pvp population way more imo, unjustifiably Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing they dont want nerf all ratting, just carrier/super-ratting thatw OP. I've been watching PLEX prices since this 'uprising' and guess what they are steadily rising. no indication of significant loss of subscribers but by doing so they upset us PvP players, there's easier ways to target the problem rather than apply a quick fix that affects other player types Reduce anomoly sites and the loot table. theres a big void in the balancing between a sub-cap and say a dread and then a Titan. A Friday announcement for a following Tuesday patch? very sneaky and underhand imo. some wouldnt have even skilled into/bought/build a Carrier. what a waste

blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2017.06.11 22:08:43 - [1601] - Quote ...or just leave the dang system alone and implement isk sinks to help add more character, options, and flare to the game. I mean, where is the creativity? How about allowing characters to rent skins for 7 days for x amount of isk? How about not nerfing capital ships by 20% damage until the CSMs can be involved in the discussion? How about stalling this update, showing a little respect for the playerbase, and working WITH us to find a solution versus against us? Maybe they need some leadership changes in management, maybe not, but this is not the way players end-game investments should be effectively glitchslapped around by any dev-team.
Lumpz0r The Taquito Stand Rate My Ticks 5	Posted - 2017.06.11 22:09:00 - [1602] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. if the observation is that this is a SMALL NUMBER OF PLAYERS causing the problem battering a HUGE amount of your player base with this nerf is in no way a resolution to the issue. that said as CCP never reply to posts other than to tell you to stop trolling and don't actually listen to their player base they just do what they want (i mean they make the game why not do what they want and forget the people who actually pay them to play) we just have to suck it up and crack on. i only recently came back to eve and moved to null.. as a player who's solo most of the time i don't make DANK ISK like whom ever these "small number of players" are but i assume i deserve the nerf too afterall i do pay for the game Oooo i hear world of warcraft is nice these days
sakpuncher Angry Rock Killers Inc. Serrice Council. 4	Posted - 2017.06.11 22:13:49 - [1603] - Quote Lumpz0r wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. if the observation is that this is a SMALL NUMBER OF PLAYERS causing the problem battering a HUGE amount of your player base with this nerf is in no way a resolution to the issue. that said as CCP never reply to posts other than to tell you to stop trolling and don't actually listen to their player base they just do what they want (i mean they make the game why not do what they want and forget the people who actually pay them to play) we just have to suck it up and crack on. i only recently came back to eve and moved to null.. as a player who's solo most of the time i don't make DANK ISK like whom ever these "small number of players" are but i assume i deserve the nerf too afterall i do pay for the game Oooo i hear world of warcraft is nice these days agreed on the not being part of the small % that makes so much money they dont know what to do with. however i disagree witht eh WoW statement it still sucks
Ter Jern Wolf STK Scientific The Initiative. 11	Posted - 2017.06.11 22:25:05 - [1604] - Quote Thomas DeTorquemada wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Thomas DeTorquemada wrote: Ridiculous preteen Mentality.... I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch. Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty. Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Ratters will keep on ratting but you've upset the pvp population way more imo, unjustifiably Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing they dont want nerf all ratting, just carrier/super-ratting thatw OP. I've been watching PLEX prices since this 'uprising' and guess what they are steadily rising. no indication of significant loss of subscribers but by doing so they upset us PvP players, there's easier ways to target the problem rather than apply a quick fix that affects other player types Reduce anomoly sites and the loot table. there's a big void in the balancing between a sub-cap and say a dread and then a Titan. A Friday announcement for a following Tuesday patch? very sneaky and underhand imo. some would'nt have even skilled into/bought/built a Carrier. what a waste Also the day after the end of a juicy plex sale... almost like they didn't want to drop the bomb until after they raked in all the cash from the sales... where they dropped the rorq changes publicly and gave it a bit to cool off before starting the sale. Almost like they knew this was a bad call and thought maybe it would hurt sales if they announced it properly.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2017.06.11 22:41:02 - [1605] - Quote This is the second largest thread in the section. Do what's right, devs.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 42	Posted - 2017.06.11 22:44:01 - [1606] - Quote Jang Taredi wrote: This is the second largest thread in the section. Do what's right, devs. Work?
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2017.06.11 22:55:41 - [1607] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Jang Taredi wrote: This is the second largest thread in the section. Do what's right, devs. Work? Without the "Greed is Good" mentality, perhaps.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 84	Posted - 2017.06.11 23:07:44 - [1608] - Quote Jang Taredi wrote: This is the second largest thread in the section. Do what's right, devs. They're too busy with their fingers in their ears, saying "It's only 1% of 1%, it's only 1% of 1%" over and over and over and over in the hope that it becomes true, rather than the massive number across here and Reddit. If they say it enough times it might be true.....
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2017.06.11 23:11:50 - [1609] - Quote I wonder if CCP also accounted for all the supers/carriers that got hotdropped, or fighter losses.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 210	Posted - 2017.06.11 23:30:37 - [1610] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Thomas DeTorquemada wrote: Ridiculous preteen Mentality.... I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch. Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty. Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Ratters will keep on ratting but you've upset the pvp population way more imo, unjustifiably Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing they dont want to nerf all ratting, just carrier/super-ratting that is OP. I've been watching PLEX prices since this 'uprising' and guess what they are steadily rising. no indication of significant loss of subscribers PLEX prices wouldn't be an indicator this soon anyway. Before leaving I put all my ISK into PLEX and other investments I expect to increase in value, because I have 0% confidence in CCP's attempts to stop inflation if this is what they're trying. I probably bought 3-4 months worth of my normal PLEX consumption so my disappearance actually contributed to a temporary increase in PLEX price at the moment.

Mariza vonAmdonen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2017.06.11 23:51:01 - [1611] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Thomas DeTorquemada wrote: Ridiculous preteen Mentality.... I give it two months when number of subscribers have dropped along with the revenue, then coax them back with a buff and an admission of 'we got it wrong' subtly placed somewhere in the patch. Target the problem of the loot drop in the first place and the bounty. Next it'll be ' we dont need guns anymore on ships, start throwing buns instead' Ratters will keep on ratting but you've upset the pvp population way more imo, unjustifiably Do you really think this is the way to assure game longevity? come on devs, do the right thing they dont want to nerf all ratting, just carrier/super-ratting that is OP. I've been watching PLEX prices since this 'uprising' and guess what they are steadily rising. no indication of significant loss of subscribers PLEX prices wouldn't be an indicator this soon anyway. Before leaving I put all my ISK into PLEX and other investments I expect to increase in value, because I have 0% confidence in CCP's attempts to stop inflation if this is what they're trying. I probably bought 3-4 months worth of my normal PLEX consumption so my disappearance actually contributed to a temporary increase in PLEX price at the moment. so, effectively, you are not leaving. Just pretending so, by temporary disappearing.
Crash 888 TRINTEX 16	Posted - 2017.06.12 00:35:10 - [1612] - Quote In 6 months no one will even remember any of this. Just as how no one remembers that goons raged about the new Citadel fighters and were going to give up carrier ratting altogether and move to reactions
Tom Ocilithon The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 00:42:50 - [1613] - Quote Right then. There's practically no point adding to the mountain of ** that's gone down already, but here goes: So I'm a new cap pilot, just bought myself a shiny new thanatos. I've spent a year training for this, and I've spent just shy of 5 billion ISK on it. I look forward to ratting with it, possibly make back the time and money I've put into this thing. Suddenly - "Fighter damage reduction", and I think "Oh. It'll be something like a 5% reduction. 10% If we're being serious." Hmm. I don't understand what CCP are thinking. A 20% nerf to fighter damage is insane. I've only just got my hands on a carrier, and I'm having 700dps just lopped off of my initial 3500dps. I've been training for this for a third of my EVE career, and I've been grinding for this thing, only to have it stomped on as I get it. Thanks. To make things easier, someone has obviously had the great idea of "Oh, lets give everyone 5 days notice before we drop this!" Just enough time to do... oh wait. Nothing. I must admit. I was worried that it was the 1st of April, and I'd just gone mad. But at this point, it looks like those damned "Biomass converters" might genuinely be added, which would still be more balanced than these fighter changes. The forum post mentioned that "This ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players." well, I'd like to point out that this is called "Progression"! This is what makes EVE actually fun! There's always something bigger and shinier, and carriers are a large part of the higher up progression elements of EVE. This is the point - for a relatively small number of people to be at the top of a progression distribution in terms of players by character skill and by extension, age. Now, I am highly against the idea of just un-subbing, it seems a damn sight close to blackmailing the developers into giving us what we want and not thinking about the overall balance of the game. But when such an obviously harmful nerf is dropped with 5 days worth of notice, that basically makes the last year worth of grinding and skill training redundant, I am furious. And that's extremely difficult for a British person to say. I have dropped my subscription, with the only regret that my re-sub happened too recently. CCP, please genuinely listen to our feedback. We have a wonderful game which has been built by both developers and the community. Do not it up like this. TL:DR - These fighter changes can ** off.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2017.06.12 01:11:44 - [1614] - Quote Tom Ocilithon wrote: Right then. There's practically no point adding to the mountain of ** that's gone down already, but here goes: So I'm a new cap pilot, just bought myself a shiny new thanatos. I've spent a year training for this, and I've spent just shy of 5 billion ISK on it. I look forward to ratting with it, possibly make back the time and money I've put into this thing. Suddenly - "Fighter damage reduction", and I think "Oh. It'll be something like a 5% reduction. 10% If we're being serious." Hmm. I don't understand what CCP are thinking. A 20% nerf to fighter damage is insane. I've only just got my hands on a carrier, and I'm having 700dps just lopped off of my initial 3500dps. I've been training for this for a third of my EVE career, and I've been grinding for this thing, only to have it stomped on as I get it. Thanks. To make things easier, someone has obviously had the great idea of "Oh, lets give everyone 5 days notice before we drop this!" Just enough time to do... oh wait. Nothing. I must admit. I was worried that it was the 1st of April, and I'd just gone mad. But at this point, it looks like those damned "Biomass converters" might genuinely be added, which would still be more balanced than these fighter changes. The forum post mentioned that "This ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players." well, I'd like to point out that this is called "Progression"! This is what makes EVE actually fun! There's always something bigger and shinier, and carriers are a large part of the higher up progression elements of EVE. This is the point - for a relatively small number of people to be at the top of a progression distribution in terms of players by character skill and by extension, age. Now, I am highly against the idea of just un-subbing, it seems a damn sight close to blackmailing the developers into giving us what we want and not thinking about the overall balance of the game. But when such an obviously harmful nerf is dropped with 5 days worth of notice, that basically makes the last year worth of grinding and skill training redundant, I am furious. And that's extremely difficult for a British person to say. I have dropped my subscription, with the only regret that my re-sub happened too recently. CCP, please genuinely listen to our feedback. We have a wonderful game which has been built by both developers and the community. Do not it up like this. TL:DR - These fighter changes can ** off. I've friends that were training and having supercarriers built, only to have the same happen. Their 20bil ships will only be worth 15bil, as well.
Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 25	Posted - 2017.06.12 01:41:57 - [1615] - Quote Jang Taredi wrote: Tom Ocilithon wrote: Right then. There's practically no point adding to the mountain of ** that's gone down already, but here goes: So I'm a new cap pilot, just bought myself a shiny new thanatos. I've spent a year training for this, and I've spent just shy of 5 billion ISK on it. I look forward to ratting with it, possibly make back the time and money I've put into this thing. Suddenly - "Fighter damage reduction", and I think "Oh. It'll be something like a 5% reduction. 10% If we're being serious." Hmm. I don't understand what CCP are thinking. A 20% nerf to fighter damage is insane. I've only just got my hands on a carrier, and I'm having 700dps just lopped off of my initial 3500dps. I've been training for this for a third of my EVE career, and I've been grinding for this thing, only to have it stomped on as I get it. Thanks. To make things easier, someone has obviously had the great idea of "Oh, lets give everyone 5 days notice before we drop this!" Just enough time to do... oh wait. Nothing. I must admit. I was worried that it was the 1st of April, and I'd just gone mad. But at this point, it looks like those damned "Biomass converters" might genuinely be added, which would still be more balanced than these fighter changes. The forum post mentioned that "This ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players." well, I'd like to point out that this is called "Progression"! This is what makes EVE actually fun! There's always something bigger and shinier, and carriers are a large part of the higher up progression elements of EVE. This is the point - for a relatively small number of people to be at the top of a progression distribution in terms of players by character skill and by extension, age. Now, I am highly against the idea of just un-subbing, it seems a damn sight close to blackmailing the developers into giving us what we want and not thinking about the overall balance of the game. But when such an obviously harmful nerf is dropped with 5 days worth of notice, that basically makes the last year worth of grinding and skill training redundant, I am furious. And that's extremely difficult for a British person to say. I have dropped my subscription, with the only regret that my re-sub happened too recently. CCP, please genuinely listen to our feedback. We have a wonderful game which has been built by both developers and the community. Do not it up like this. TL:DR - These fighter changes can ** off. I've friends that were training and having supercarriers built, only to have the same happen. Their 20bil ships will only be worth 15bil, as well. 15 bil if they are lucky. If they bought an aeon or wyvern....yea gonna suck.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 210	Posted - 2017.06.12 01:43:53 - [1616] - Quote Mariza vonAmdonen wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: PLEX prices wouldn't be an indicator this soon anyway. Before leaving I put all my ISK into PLEX and other investments I expect to increase in value, because I have 0% confidence in CCP's attempts to stop inflation if this is what they're trying. I probably bought 3-4 months worth of my normal PLEX consumption so my disappearance actually contributed to a temporary increase in PLEX price at the moment. so, effectively, you are not leaving. Just pretending so, by temporary disappearing. I intend to disappear however long it takes CCP to change the direction of development to something more positive. Whether that's a month or forever is beside the point. I love Eve and want it to be great, and there's still a chance it can be. I haven't lost hope for the game, but I have lost faith. If things don't change for the better I won't be back, but I sincerely hope the direction does improve so I can come back some day. I'd be a fool not to prepare for that possibility in what little way I can.
SoundKonducta Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 02:55:48 - [1617] - Quote Extremely disappointing decision made here...should've just made it so supers cannot warp to anoms. CCP please stop nerfing everything so ridiculously hard so it breaks ships =(
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 04:09:46 - [1618] - Quote and CCP_falcon said feedback should be posted back at forums as its easier for dev to respond hiding their asses like medieval fat overlords when the peasants are revolting and screaming "dont let them in guards!"
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 27	Posted - 2017.06.12 04:14:16 - [1619] - Quote Rumour has it that that if we hit 100 pages the changes will be reversed.
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 04:20:19 - [1620] - Quote on the hindsight, carriers are most people's end game content because its the most versatile cap available and of cos being a jack-of-all-trades cap its capabilities after the first nerf is was still reasonable but this nerf almost pushes carriers down one tier, carrier into T2 sub-caps and super-carriers into normal cap class unless this is your intent somewhere down your roadmap. and if it is your intention please do make appropriate changes esp in mineral cost to put them around the cost of a fitted marauder to justify the use of carriers. and basically what you are also telling us is that "capital ships were never intended to be use as an isk making tool if so HAW guns on dreads needs to be look at too i believe it is possible to rat drifters? with HAW guns" dont just nerf fighters cause "its making too much money"

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6612	Posted - 2017.06.12 04:47:56 - [1621] - Quote Chevy Caputtos wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: C0ATL wrote: Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers. Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers. Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement. I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike. Might have more to do with skill injectors. Yes, I used a skill injector and suddenly 150 million ISK showed up in my wallet. You can't be serious with this. Even if people are using injectors to get into carriers the problem is...carriers. They are too efficient at ratting and making ISK. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6612	Posted - 2017.06.12 04:50:19 - [1622] - Quote idontknowy wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: C0ATL wrote: Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers. Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers. Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement. I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike. CCP Quant is an amateur statistician using outlier numbers. Those outliers are are causing a problem. Just because a data point is an outlier does not make it false, or unimportant. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6612	Posted - 2017.06.12 04:53:03 - [1623] - Quote Hamasaki Cross wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. I quit eve after one of the dozen nerfs in the last few months after playing since Beta. Someone linked this nerf to discord, which caused me to chuckle and chime in. For you people complaining about nerfs, it's really quite simple. "Isk faucets" need to go away so you buy more plex since this game hasn't had a new player base in many years. (free to play influx is laughable, as any game on such a transition is well known to be on it's last legs) As such, it's not going to be unusual in the coming months to continue to see many more nerfs for players who have invested billions of isk and years of time into SP and ships, in order to reduce the total number of available isk/SP. Since injectors implementation, these nerfs cause a direct loss of SP as people rip now obsolete skills (now Carriers, before, rorquals, before mining barges/hulks when rorquals were rebalanced, leadership skills, etc) at a great loss. As new injectors give far less SP than the SP ripped, this is net profit for CCP who needs an increased revenue stream. I rip 500k SP and get 150k back in return or whatever the calculation works out to be. 350k SP removed from the game so I need to buy 3 additional injectors to make back my lost SP. I'm going to run on the assumption that this moronic CCP trend will continue and continue to train useless skills as they suddenly become the only viable option for gameplay (such as salvaging) in the future. And since I FOOLISHLY (really, shame on me) subbed for the remainder of the year, near the end of said sub, I'll login and take a peak around at the new 'enhanced' CCP velator with mining lasers only gameplay style. "for the economy" of course since suddenly CCP really cares about the "player driven economy" which is actually now "ccp nerf driven". All this said, I find CCP's strategy highly curious for a game that attracts zero new customers. (new accounts are redundant as people increase scale on existing accounts in the world's most multibox able game). Screw remaining cash cow customers who have given years of solid support in preference for.... I dunno what... bankruptcy? To CCP devs/marketing team, at this point, have you guys just given up on this game? -- This is an honest question (not trolling, bruh) and I wonder what the honest answer is (or if such a thing were realistic to expect) And finally, somewhat comically, I find it hilarious that fozzy didn't send out this nerf advice. I guess he/she/other finally got tired of being crapped on by the general population for announcing many dozens of other bad business moves. That degree of growth in the money supply is simply bad. When the growth rate increases by 600% the next thing will be dramatic inflation if sustained. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bruminon Know-Nothings LowSechnaya Sholupen 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 05:04:07 - [1624] - Quote if capitals were removed from the game, i'd still play. if you require absurd ticks because you cant shell out $15/month, perhaps you shouldnt be playing games at all. focus on your career instead or get a job/mow lawns. capitals in general should be a force to be reckoned with. a small fleet of 30m cruisers shouldnt be able take down a carrier in my opinion. the fighter drone's tank is so weak that carriers are easily defanged. now nerf damage further and they're even more weak. can get a rattlesnake with 1500+ dps, meanwhile a chimera will run 2000 dps with the nerf. i really don't care what happens, as i enjoy sub-capital ships as well. i just dont see myself undocking my carriers for pvp. what's the purpose for carriers in pvp? it's surely not dps. some ships should be overpowered, because they cost a FORTUNE. even with amazing ticks, it still takes forever to replace a super. obviously ccp has identified a legit issue with PVE, but i dont think this was the solution.
ISD Decoy ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1757	Posted - 2017.06.12 05:11:38 - [1625] - Quote I've removed an off-topic disrespectful post and those quoting it. Quote: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times. The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others. 27. Off-topic posting is prohibited. Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. ISD Decoy Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Terrence Miromme Universalis Imperium The Bastion 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 05:13:47 - [1626] - Quote ...waits for the Mass Exodus & Mass Unsubscribes. Im seriously thinking myself of quitting EVE for good, so many nerfs to caps lately why even have carriers, heck why not only have just frigs if you want all the ships even. This was a big F&$# you from CCP to all those of us that pay real money every month and want to have nice things in EVE.
Jhousetlin Zamayid 41	Posted - 2017.06.12 05:17:16 - [1627] - Quote FYI, EVE is now in hyperinflation. This is extremely troubling and does have game-breaking consequences if there isn't some form of intervention to bring it back under control.
Jhousetlin Zamayid 41	Posted - 2017.06.12 05:19:00 - [1628] - Quote Terrence Miromme wrote: ...waits for the Mass Exodus & Mass Unsubscribes. Im seriously thinking myself of quitting EVE for good, so many nerfs to caps lately why even have carriers, heck why not only have just frigs if you want all the ships even. This was a big F&$# you from CCP to all those of us that pay real money every month and want to have nice things in EVE. If you want nice things in EVE, you should probably care more about the overall health of the game and the economy, instead of your own myopic desire to have a certain shiny ship.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6612	Posted - 2017.06.12 05:19:11 - [1629] - Quote Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote: FYI, EVE is now in hyperinflation. This is extremely troubling and does have game-breaking consequences if there isn't some form of intervention to bring it back under control. Uhhh...no, not yet. Let this kind of growth in the money supply continue and could very well happen. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2017.06.12 05:32:40 - [1630] - Quote Valaba wrote: If you do this, at the same time how about nerfing permanent cloaky afk players who drop blops fleets on carriers that reside in your system all day. Take away their ability to stay cloaked for 10 hours straight without needing to be at their keyboard. I don't even rat anymore whenever the known hotdroppers are on which changes my Isk to 0/hr already with the carrier. You guys are behind times of whats really going on in Eve. Your data is from too long ago and not current. Hahahahahaha, so you just dock up when a cloaky camper is in your system?! how about you bait them out and escalate? This is the risk adverse entitled **** that makes cloaky camping so fun.

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6614	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:07:37 - [1631] - Quote So I just looked and characters added a whopping 53 trillion ISK to their wallets in May 2017. To put this in perspective, for the entire year for the years 2014, 2015 and 2016, players added 61.3 trillion, 103.7 trillion, and 81.9 trillion ISK to their wallets respectively. In other words, May, by itself, add more ISK than half of the year 2015. Let me repeat that, in one month, May 2017, as much ISK was added to player's wallets as was added for 6 months of 2015. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:10:21 - [1632] - Quote Now imagine all those carriers training say 15 alts he can basically take over 1/2 or all the anoms in a system and afk rat.. hot dropper tackles one of his afktars.. 14 other afk tars warp to him whats the trade out of that fight? Basically if he cant fight back that drop he can just warp out his non tackled afktars loss is still lower than a tackled carrier. But still nakes a ton of profit from that afk session balanced? Yea! Cos ccp eins the wallet war! And whos the one who loses? The players
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4018	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:18:02 - [1633] - Quote lolzz Quekz wrote: Now imagine all those carriers training say 15 alts he can basically take over 1/2 or all the anoms in a system and afk rat.. hot dropper tackles one of his afktars.. 14 other afktars warp to him whats the trade out of that fight? Basically if he cant fight back that drop he can just warp out his non tackled afktars loss is still lower than a tackled carrier. But still makes a ton of profit from that afk session balanced? Yea! Cos ccp wins the wallet war! And whos the one who loses? The players And you know, almost none of them will do it, because it's a lot of work, and if they were going to do it they would have been doing it three years ago already. So yeah, not worried about a sudden spike in Ishtars or anything like that actually happening.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6614	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:19:40 - [1634] - Quote And on average, using the data from Feb. 2012 through Nov. 2016 about 7 trillion ISK is added each month to character's wallets. This is 757% increase in the average growth rate of the supply of ISK. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6614	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:21:45 - [1635] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Now imagine all those carriers training say 15 alts he can basically take over 1/2 or all the anoms in a system and afk rat.. hot dropper tackles one of his afktars.. 14 other afktars warp to him whats the trade out of that fight? Basically if he cant fight back that drop he can just warp out his non tackled afktars loss is still lower than a tackled carrier. But still makes a ton of profit from that afk session balanced? Yea! Cos ccp wins the wallet war! And whos the one who loses? The players And you know, almost none of them will do it, because it's a lot of work, and if they were going to do it they would have been doing it three years ago already. So yeah, not worried about a sudden spike in Ishtars or anything like that actually happening. Not only that, but with his one carrier he was likely able to PLEX his account. With 16 accounts he'll have to actually open his wallet to fund those 16 accounts. Yes, I will base my argument against this change on players having infinite wealth! "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:26:58 - [1636] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Now imagine all those carriers training say 15 alts he can basically take over 1/2 or all the anoms in a system and afk rat.. hot dropper tackles one of his afktars.. 14 other afktars warp to him whats the trade out of that fight? Basically if he cant fight back that drop he can just warp out his non tackled afktars loss is still lower than a tackled carrier. But still makes a ton of profit from that afk session balanced? Yea! Cos ccp wins the wallet war! And whos the one who loses? The players And you know, almost none of them will do it, because it's a lot of work, and if they were going to do it they would have been doing it three years ago already. So yeah, not worried about a sudden spike in Ishtars or anything like that actually happening. Not only that, but with his one carrier he was likely able to PLEX his account. With 16 accounts he'll have to actually open his wallet to fund those 16 accounts. Yes, I will base my argument against this change on players having infinite wealth! which is the base of my point this whole nerf-ing is only benefitting CCP does it really benefit the economy? i doubt so its the same as how some miners run like 10 accounts is it hard work? it might be cause its a little more complicated than afktars who warp in orbit and drop drones but ccp think its alright since they plex that 10 accounts right? but if you make that same amount in a single account.. no bro.. its not good for us we need more people plex-ing or subbing accounts another question is that the report doesnt show the root cause of this increase in bounty payouts is it entirely due carrier ratters? or is there an influx of alphas running vexors? or maybe people starting to upgrade vnis into afktar or rattlesnakes? by just pointing that X player made an isk tick of xxx amount doesnt justify how carrier ratting is the root cause of the spike. if ccp wants to justify that carriers are the root cause they should just release the entire report on the bounty payout divided into ships class which ships take how much percentage of the pie to shut everyone up
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6614	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:28:29 - [1637] - Quote And one more fun statistic....on May 7th, 2017 character's added 6,425,554,631,136.00 IS to their wallets. Or almost as much as an entire month (about 91%). Yup, no problem there. [/sarcasm] "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6614	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:31:16 - [1638] - Quote lolzz Quekz wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Now imagine all those carriers training say 15 alts he can basically take over 1/2 or all the anoms in a system and afk rat.. hot dropper tackles one of his afktars.. 14 other afktars warp to him whats the trade out of that fight? Basically if he cant fight back that drop he can just warp out his non tackled afktars loss is still lower than a tackled carrier. But still makes a ton of profit from that afk session balanced? Yea! Cos ccp wins the wallet war! And whos the one who loses? The players And you know, almost none of them will do it, because it's a lot of work, and if they were going to do it they would have been doing it three years ago already. So yeah, not worried about a sudden spike in Ishtars or anything like that actually happening. Not only that, but with his one carrier he was likely able to PLEX his account. With 16 accounts he'll have to actually open his wallet to fund those 16 accounts. Yes, I will base my argument against this change on players having infinite wealth! which is the base of my point this whole nerf-ing is only benefitting CCP does it really benefit the economy? i doubt so its the same as how some miners run like 10 accounts is it hard work? it might be cause its a little more complicated than afktars who warp in orbit and drop drones but ccp think its alright since they plex that 10 accounts right? but if you make that same amount in a single account.. no bro.. its not good for us we need more people plex-ing or subbing accounts Nobody is going to go from a PLEXed carrier to 16 accounts subbed with RL money. If anything the rage here would indicate that CCP is going to come out on the losing end assuming the threats to quit are indeed real. And to be clear, these people threatening to quit...if they are doing so because of their loss of ratting income, well they are short sighted fools who do not realize that if this kind of growth in ISK is sustained it will ruin the game for everyone. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:43:01 - [1639] - Quote teckos i think you misunderstood my point these top 1% wont sub with their RL money in any case they can as easily plex 15 accounts. what i am saying is this: if i sub my account but makes 200m/h eg. from ratting its not ok cos i can basically stop subbing and just run plex or basically 1 plex/mth so basically they potentially lost 1 sub account cause he can fund it entirely out from ratting ticks compared to if i need to plex 15 accounts to make the same amount ccp makes 15x the money compared to that 1 account that runs 1 plex these plex of cos comes from some other players who buy plex with RL cash to fund whatever they need or as start-up money so if there is a demand for more plex to sub accounts to multi-box ccp wins and people who have near infinite pocket would too
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6615	Posted - 2017.06.12 06:57:06 - [1640] - Quote lolzz Quekz wrote: teckos i think you misunderstood my point these top 1% wont sub with their RL money in any case they can as easily plex 15 accounts. what i am saying is this: if i sub my account but makes 200m/h eg. from ratting its not ok cos i can basically stop subbing and just run plex or basically 1 plex/mth so basically they potentially lost 1 sub account cause he can fund it entirely out from ratting ticks compared to if i need to plex 15 accounts to make the same amount ccp makes 15x the money compared to that 1 account that runs 1 plex these plex of cos comes from some other players who buy plex with RL cash to fund whatever they need or as start-up money so if there is a demand for more plex to sub accounts to multi-box ccp wins and people who have near infinite pocket would too Still not going to happen all that much if at all. A player in a carrier or a super may be able to PLEX their account and have some left over after ratting for a number of hours. But ratting in an ishtar or VNI is going to take more time. This type or argument ignores a basic economic concept known as opportunity cost. Devoting more time to ratting is not costless. Devoting more time to ratting with 15 accounts is going to come with even higher costs. The problem here is that there is way, way, way too much ISK entering the economy. It absolutely has to stop. This maybe a boneheaded way to do it, but the problem is real and it has to be addressed, and no matter how one does address the problem the days of making alot of ISK with a carrier or super are done. And that is a good thing. Edit: Anyone who mines, uses the minerals to build a JF and then self-destructs it...they are doing it horribly, horribly wrong. They are losing ISK On that venture. Yes, they maybe adding ISK to the in game economy, but the number of people doing this is minuscule or zero. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

idontknowy Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:04:01 - [1641] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: idontknowy wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: C0ATL wrote: Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ... The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers. Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers. Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement. I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike. CCP Quant is an amateur statistician using outlier numbers. Those outliers are causing a problem. Just because a data point is an outlier does not make it false, or unimportant. An outlier is an extreme example, not a regular occurrence, doesn't happen all the time. and should have never been thrown out as if it were a repeatable thing to net 780mil/hr. That he used such a number makes him look amateurish.
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:10:16 - [1642] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: teckos i think you misunderstood my point these top 1% wont sub with their RL money in any case they can as easily plex 15 accounts. what i am saying is this: if i sub my account but makes 200m/h eg. from ratting its not ok cos i can basically stop subbing and just run plex or basically 1 plex/mth so basically they potentially lost 1 sub account cause he can fund it entirely out from ratting ticks compared to if i need to plex 15 accounts to make the same amount ccp makes 15x the money compared to that 1 account that runs 1 plex these plex of cos comes from some other players who buy plex with RL cash to fund whatever they need or as start-up money so if there is a demand for more plex to sub accounts to multi-box ccp wins and people who have near infinite pocket would too Still not going to happen all that much if at all. A player in a carrier or a super may be able to PLEX their account and have some left over after ratting for a number of hours. But ratting in an ishtar or VNI is going to take more time. This type or argument ignores a basic economic concept known as opportunity cost. Devoting more time to ratting is not costless. Devoting more time to ratting with 15 accounts is going to come with even higher costs. The problem here is that there is way, way, way too much ISK entering the economy. It absolutely has to stop. This maybe a boneheaded way to do it, but the problem is real and it has to be addressed, and no matter how one does address the problem the days of making alot of ISK with a carrier or super are done. And that is a good thing. Edit: Anyone who mines, uses the minerals to build a JF and then self-destructs it...they are doing it horribly, horribly wrong. They are losing ISK On that venture. Yes, they maybe adding ISK to the in game economy, but the number of people doing this is minuscule or zero. issue now is that nerfing fighter aint really gonna solve the inflation issue and its punishing people who invested time and money getting into them to be told their skills are proly not gonna be much use. or they can some stupid debuff or something in all anoms to reduce fighter's effectiveness against all npc entities so they at least retain their overall effectiveness in pvp the only fix to the situation is basically like what they did with pirate BPC decrease drop rates across the entire board ores bounty drop rates, all module drop rates and raise scarcity of everything so every ship blow up in space reduces its availability until the inflation can be curbed when everyone has exhausted almost all their nigh infinite isk
Eric Lemmonte F-I-N-K Industry The Volition Cult 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:24:48 - [1643] - Quote Looking at some of those graphs they have on https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/ makes me wonder if they could fix this issue with tweaking manufacture numbers somehow. Both bounty and produced good prices have gone up in a very similar profile this last year. It looks to me that people are ratting the best way they can to pay for these ever increasing costs to buy produced goods. You still have time to fix this. Don't be hasty and make such a drastic change without first thinking it over. I see that online player counts have dwindled over the years and I can't help but think that CCP is getting anxious that they're starting to lose their cash cow. Right now we're down to the same number of online players as back in 2008. Please don't turn into another EA or Activision. Just make a quality game and you will keep a loyal player base. These wild changes you keep doing is making this a bumpy road for everyone
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6615	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:38:21 - [1644] - Quote idontknowy wrote: An outlier is an extreme example, not a regular occurrence, doesn't happen all the time. and should have never been thrown out as if it were a repeatable thing to net 780mil/hr. That he used such a number makes him look amateurish. There is only one problem. If you look at the monthly aggregate yes, May looks like an outlier. But when you look at the daily averages for ISK injected for each month May 2017 has a much higher average. Further, the standard deviation is lower than many other months. In fact, in graphing the daily ISK growth, what becomes quite obvious is that prior to 2017 there were days where the ISK growth was negative and days where it was positive. But in 2017 the number of days with negative ISK growth become both smaller in frequency and in magnitude. In fact, after April 20th the days of negative growth are negligible in both number and magnitude. So it is not just "one outlier" here. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6615	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:41:21 - [1645] - Quote Eric Lemmonte wrote: Looking at some of those graphs they have on https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/ makes me wonder if they could fix this issue with tweaking manufacture numbers somehow. Both bounty and produced good prices have gone up in a very similar profile this last year. It looks to me that people are ratting the best way they can to pay for these ever increasing costs to buy produced goods. You still have time to fix this. Don't be hasty and make such a drastic change without first thinking it over. I see that online player counts have dwindled over the years and I can't help but think that CCP is getting anxious that they're starting to lose their cash cow. Right now we're down to the same number of online players as back in 2008. Please don't turn into another EA or Activision. Just make a quality game and you will keep a loyal player base. These wild changes you keep doing is making this a bumpy road for everyone So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. That is reasonable to you? Really? Lets screw over players who are not causing the problem and let those who are continue on making a mess. And you do realize that the CPI has been essentially flat for like that last 6 months to a year, right? Oh, and that is likely an overstatement of inflation as CCP use, IIRC, a Laspreyes index which can have issues with being upwardly biased. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6615	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:43:03 - [1646] - Quote lolzz Quekz wrote: issue now is that nerfing fighter aint really gonna solve the inflation issue and its punishing people who invested time and money getting into them to be told their skills are proly not gonna be much use. or they can some stupid debuff or something in all anoms to reduce fighter's effectiveness against all npc entities so they at least retain their overall effectiveness in pvp the only fix to the situation is basically like what they did with pirate BPC decrease drop rates across the entire board ores bounty drop rates, all module drop rates and raise scarcity of everything so every ship blow up in space reduces its availability until the inflation can be curbed when everyone has exhausted almost all their nigh infinite isk First off, there is no signs of major inflation....yet. Second, yes, it will head off the possibility of high inflation because nobody is going to go the route you suggest. It just will not happen, that is just pure fantasy. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Yuri Sarain Endgegner. Kids With Guns Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:48:02 - [1647] - Quote I see the sense of the changes due to ISK creating reasons, but I see a big problem when it comes to pvp. Thanks to low sensor strength the fighters are extremely easy to jam and due to larger signature radius also easy to kill. This makes carrier pretty much useless in pvp, as u can take them out with, for example, a singe griffin. Conclusion: yes there needs to be less money created in pve with them, but nerfing them even more is a real problem in pvp.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6616	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:52:47 - [1648] - Quote Yuri Sarain wrote: I see the sense of the changes due to ISK creating reasons, but I see a big problem when it comes to pvp. Thanks to low sensor strength the fighters are extremely easy to jam and due to larger signature radius also easy to kill. This makes carrier pretty much useless in pvp, as u can take them out with, for example, a singe griffin. Conclusion: yes there needs to be less money created in pve with them, but nerfing them even more is a real problem in pvp. Pretty much my view. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Petros K North Korean Nuclear Research Requiem Eternal 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:57:55 - [1649] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: [quote=Eric Lemmonte] So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ?
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 5	Posted - 2017.06.12 07:59:17 - [1650] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Yuri Sarain wrote: I see the sense of the changes due to ISK creating reasons, but I see a big problem when it comes to pvp. Thanks to low sensor strength the fighters are extremely easy to jam and due to larger signature radius also easy to kill. This makes carrier pretty much useless in pvp, as u can take them out with, for example, a singe griffin. Conclusion: yes there needs to be less money created in pve with them, but nerfing them even more is a real problem in pvp. Pretty much my view. my point too honestly i am not a carrier pilot but it was my dream to be one i can forego carrier ratting to at least be able to use it in fleet action. which is why i was suggesting why not just put a god damm phenom in all anoms to debuff fighters so that it can keep its usefulness in pvp

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6616	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:09:37 - [1651] - Quote Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: [quote=Eric Lemmonte] So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ? Apparently quite a bit once you look at the data. Enough to shift the money growth in a decidedly unhealthy way. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Axy Sheytan Orange Leeuw Corporation Serrice Council. 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:13:38 - [1652] - Quote Are you kidding me! This is a hell of a crush. Current plex price is 1.4b. On average, each player has 3 characters. We have already got our monthly 5b already just for plex. Instead of dropping everything, try to enrich the game with new anomalies ... Correct the ships like the Vexorl navy issue, the Ishtar . The guys are already doing all kinds of anomalies with them. Where is our sacrifice, where is ours. Look at enriching the game, not dropping it. It's a shame you did. You've lost hundreds of thousands of players, just a few new brats. Rest assured. We do not want to be abused because we like this game. If you plan to make a plan according to the developing game economy and in-game inflation. Please put your hand in your conscience and re-evaluate ... (and Sorry my bad english translation)
schulleone Are We The Baddies 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:13:55 - [1653] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. TL;DR: We are too lazy to develop real solutions for the economic issues caused by our skill injectors and low risk citadel mechanics. The capital meta is **** up already anyway. So we just gonna ** up it even more to hotfix the economic issues.
Petros K North Korean Nuclear Research Requiem Eternal 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:16:19 - [1654] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: [quote=Eric Lemmonte] So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ? Apparently quite a bit once you look at the data. Enough to shift the money growth in a decidedly unhealthy way. Quite a bit isnt an answer , give me a good number . Lets asume a thanatos/nidd(decent fit , not godlike) that the driver can rat for .... 3 hours? maybe up to 5 before he gets TIRED because of actively playing (include in your estimation that the driver will have to dock for an unknown ammount of time in case danger enters in the system ) Now compare that ammount to a VNI that rats 24/7
M3tamorph Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc. 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:24:19 - [1655] - Quote Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???
Axy Sheytan Orange Leeuw Corporation Serrice Council. 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:33:50 - [1656] - Quote M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? If these changes occur; Because of incompetent management, we leave this game, as thousands of people. Then ccp will play the game with afk players.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 5	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:36:52 - [1657] - Quote Just reading this thread has kept me from logging in the past two days, I almost even jumped back into Sky Nations to get the same gameplay features I enjoy here and it's a chincy ten-dollar minecraft-with-ships knockoff, but alas, it no longer seems to work, so here I am getting my shipping fix.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 46	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:38:31 - [1658] - Quote M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? Nope, they have not and will not for sure (give a flyingf). They will just do it. Fu*k the community. But at least we could plan 4 days!!! ahead so i could unsubscribe fast, before my accounts renewed. The worst would be if they announced that they won't implement this "update" (downdate) and will figure out something else, and made a lot of us resubscribe...than do it anyways. Oh...am i giving good ideas to you CCP?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6616	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:41:02 - [1659] - Quote Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: [quote=Eric Lemmonte] So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ? Apparently quite a bit once you look at the data. Enough to shift the money growth in a decidedly unhealthy way. Quite a bit isnt an answer , give me a good number . Lets asume a thanatos/nidd(decent fit , not godlike) that the driver can rat for .... 3 hours? maybe up to 5 before he gets TIRED because of actively playing (include in your estimation that the driver will have to dock for an unknown ammount of time in case danger enters in the system ) Now compare that ammount to a VNI that rats 24/7 A VNI ratting 24/7. Please don't go full moron. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:41:23 - [1660] - Quote The problem is that all these nerf changes both fighters and ror cuts above all hit directly the casual player that has one or two accounts because sharks will always adopt to the situation and they got enough money to change profile of their ventures. CCP made a lot of mistakes that where mentioned earlier like for example new sov, skill injectors, citadels mechanic so to mention a few. Simple cuts in fighter and ror stats will not solve the economic problem of eve market because they lead to another cuts in other places and so on and on and on, that is not a solution! And we all know that game is not in balance already. I have struggled a lot to get to the place where I will be able to fly caps since it was my high end (ultimate goal) in the game but tomorrow my amarr and caldari super/carriers will become pure garbage and I assure you that does not concern only 1% of the 1% of players. Fighters cuts will make changes in areas of pve, pvp and citadel defense possibilities so it is not simple cut it will more certain trigger more cuts and it will not solve the market problem first of all. The tomorrow hasty, introduced without consultations and tests patch will affect world of EVE tremendously and will change wiev of a lot of players on the game. If CCP wanted to curb the market it would cut bounties or limit the amounts of clients per computer and amount of pumped isks to the system were diminished next day. I say again CCP do not follow that path!

Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 46	Posted - 2017.06.12 08:49:09 - [1661] - Quote Bron Ander Haltern wrote: The problem is that all these nerf changes both fighters and ror cuts above all hit directly the casual player that has one or two accounts because sharks will always adopt to the situation and they got enough money to change profile of their ventures. CCP made a lot of mistakes that where mentioned earlier like for example new sov, skill injectors, citadels mechanic so to mention a few. Simple cuts in fighter and ror stats will not solve the economic problem of eve market because they lead to another cuts in other places and so on and on and on, that is not a solution! And we all know that game is not in balance already. I have struggled a lot to get to the place where I will be able to fly caps since it was my high end (ultimate goal) in the game but tomorrow my amarr and caldari super/carriers will become pure garbage and I assure you that does not concern only 1% of the 1% of players. Fighters cuts will make changes in areas of pve, pvp and citadel defense possibilities so it is not simple cut it will more certain trigger more cuts and it will not solve the market problem first of all. The tomorrow hasty, introduced without consultations and tests patch will affect world of EVE tremendously and will change wiev of a lot of players on the game. If CCP wanted to curb the market it would cut bounties or limit the amounts of clients per computer and amount of pumped isks to the system would diminish next day. I say again CCP do not follow that path! I'm not sure after 3 days of discussion here, including giving ideas (good or bad, doesn't matter) and CCP is still quiet about this...will sure follow that path. Im getting more and more concerned about that this is about something else...economy blabla was just a misleading (by the way true) info.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 211	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:06:27 - [1662] - Quote To be fair, the last couple days have been the weekend so CCP employees haven't necessarily been around to keep track of what's going on. That is kind of the downside of announcing a change on Friday when it needs to be set in stone on Monday though...
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:14:40 - [1663] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: To be fair, the last couple days have been the weekend so CCP employees haven't necessarily been around to keep track of what's going on. That is kind of the downside of announcing a change on Friday when it needs to be set in stone on Monday though... Funny because according to CCP FoxFour " we don't like to do deployments on Fridays"
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 7	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:16:33 - [1664] - Quote ccp_falcon was on ytd in reddit [GÇô]CCP_FalconCCP Games 212 points 1 day ago This is actually a fantastic breakdown of how you see the situation. Thanks for sharing it. I'll point the relevant people in the direction of this post - really nicely put together dude :) they are avoiding the fighter threads no one wants to give us a proper explanation after the powder keg exploded in quant's face :x
Will Swiftsure Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:19:23 - [1665] - Quote Yolo CCP Larrakin! Maybe you can do a 12% dps nerf and only a 3% nerf to the fighter missiles and perhaps a 3% signature radius increase on fighters? Sort of a middle ground wich would reward the skillful players some instead of a 250% nerf across the board.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18964	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:23:13 - [1666] - Quote M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated. Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships. This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 48	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:30:52 - [1667] - Quote baltec1 wrote: M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated. Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships. This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk. Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6618	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:38:11 - [1668] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: baltec1 wrote: M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated. Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships. This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk. Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days. No, it is not lack of "new content". It is a problem with carriers/supers when used for ratting. I agree it is not good to screw over carrier/super pilots with respect to PvP. And I would really prefer it if CCP looked into alternative solutions. But posting nonsense, rage jibberish, and so forth is not going to convince CCP. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:40:12 - [1669] - Quote baltec1 wrote: M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated. Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships. This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk. issue is they didnt nuke all the problem ships they only nuked the elitist problem ships which are also the end game some players are work towards. if they really wanted to control the isk income just nerf the ticks and that would be way easier than nerfing fighters. and if they truly want to shut everyone up on this issue they should just issue a detailed report on bounty payout based on ship class by simply saying 140m tick must be super ratting and using it as a basis that all carrier and super carriers are making the same is not justifiable
Petros K North Korean Nuclear Research Requiem Eternal 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:40:15 - [1670] - Quote Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem .....

lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:45:53 - [1671] - Quote they can even do something like "due to the massive strain in operating Capital ships after constant use will suffer a stacking penalty occurring every x hours lasting for x hrs" to limit cap ratting while kinda like jump fatigue the stacking penalties can affect fighter gun tracking etc.. and carriers are not the only problem dreads in WH i believe have the potential to me billions in an hour how would that be justifiable?
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:46:04 - [1672] - Quote Bron Ander Haltern wrote: The problem is that all these nerf changes both fighters and ror cuts above all hit directly the casual player that has one or two accounts because sharks will always adopt to the situation and they got enough money to change profile of their ventures. CCP made a lot of mistakes that where mentioned earlier like for example new sov, skill injectors, citadels mechanic so to mention a few. Simple cuts in fighter and ror stats will not solve the economic problem of eve market because they lead to another cuts in other places and so on and on and on, that is not a solution! And we all know that game is not in balance already. I have struggled a lot to get to the place where I will be able to fly caps since it was my high end (ultimate goal) in the game but tomorrow my amarr and caldari super/carriers will become pure garbage and I assure you that does not concern only 1% of the 1% of players. Fighters cuts will make changes in areas of pve, pvp and citadel defense possibilities so it is not simple cut it will more certainly trigger more cuts and it will not solve the market problem first of all. The tomorrow hasty, introduced without consultations and tests patch will affect world of EVE tremendously and will change wiev of a lot of players on the game. If CCP wanted to curb the market it would cut bounties or limit the amounts of clients per computer and amount of pumped isks to the system would diminish next day. I say again CCP do not follow that path! I agree, what a terrible decision. I miss the CCP of 2011, the new leadership just rolls out bad idea after bad idea. Fozzy sov -- which effectively killed null sec warfare is another prime example. Wretched changes, 20% damage nerf to any ship [ AND INCREASED AGRO TO ALREADY OVER-TARGETED FIGHTERS?!! ] is far too much. I've cut 4 accounts so far, leaving only my main to help with ops - but now that I know of 2 close friends that are already playing another game b/c of the Rorq changes, I might join them in Black Desert as well. I'm just so disgusted.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6618	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:48:30 - [1673] - Quote lolzz Quekz wrote: baltec1 wrote: M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated. Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships. This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk. issue is they didnt nuke all the problem ships they only nuked the elitist problem ships which are also the end game some players are work towards. if they really wanted to control the isk income just nerf the ticks and that would be way easier than nerfing fighters. and if they truly want to shut everyone up on this issue they should just issue a detailed report on bounty payout based on ship class by simply saying 140m tick must be super ratting and using it as a basis that all carrier and super carriers are making the same is not justifiable Nonsense. Look at the data FFS. ISK growth was pretty much flat for quite some time. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:50:57 - [1674] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: baltec1 wrote: M3tamorph wrote: Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions? It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow??? No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated. Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships. This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk. issue is they didnt nuke all the problem ships they only nuked the elitist problem ships which are also the end game some players are work towards. if they really wanted to control the isk income just nerf the ticks and that would be way easier than nerfing fighters. and if they truly want to shut everyone up on this issue they should just issue a detailed report on bounty payout based on ship class by simply saying 140m tick must be super ratting and using it as a basis that all carrier and super carriers are making the same is not justifiable Nonsense. Look at the data FFS. ISK growth was pretty much flat for quite some time. please attribute that to carrier ratting like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6618	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:51:49 - [1675] - Quote Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
RKJakTup Giggling Bandits Just let it happen 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:52:58 - [1676] - Quote Skill Deficiency wrote: RKJakTup wrote: and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve. Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this draw back and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size. your reply was almost not worth replying to... "Than use the other ship"... am i bad at eve if im not using the right ship for the job... this part just shows how dumb you are. but on the second part ill explain to you, about the 15%. so right now yes with the "drew back" of the amount of drones/isk im losing, it is still worth ratting in the ship. but after the 15% more likely to attk drone it may be too much. so how can my point about this is of little value? Value is subjective to personal feeling. but good job of looking like an ass.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18965	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:54:20 - [1677] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days. No the problem is giving people the tools to abuse. They could have added a ton of great high end content but we would have had the same issue with a ton of isk entering the system due to carriers and supers making bank in anoms.
Youshi Yohimoto The Inebriated Bivalves Jamyl Syndicate 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:57:53 - [1678] - Quote Oh so because you don't like peoples honest opinions about your constant ups on trying to re-balance something you yourselfs broke to begin with, you go and delete all post that are pointing out how stupid decisions you do? Wow! just wow! It's almost like North Korea here. GG CCP for being money greedy o7
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6618	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:58:00 - [1679] - Quote lolzz Quekz wrote: please attribute that to carrier ratting like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2017.06.12 09:58:22 - [1680] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. First of all, carrier ratting is NOT afk. You quickly lose more fighters than you earn in any anom if you try it, not to mention you have to actively send the fighters at targets... Second, Paladins, Golems, Tengus, Rattlesnakes, and the list goes on...are ALL capable of making the same kind of ISK carriers can in an anom. Carriers are popular because they have jump drives, are end-game ships, look cool, and most people have trained for a year or longer to fly them. Nerfing carriers, and I mean this literally, isn't going to dent ISK generation. You'd have to be absolutely dense to think that enterprising players aren't going to quickly adapt and move around the nerf. It's the dang principle that's the issue. CCP tried to slip this in an the last minute, bypassed our CSM, and made some stupid lie about how 1% of the players are the only one's affected (think of all the dudes in renting corps, low sec corps/alliances, wormholes, etc that use carriers too). Sure, ISK generation has skyrocketed. Their graph shows this, but have you thought to consider maybe it's because nullsec mechanics are garbage and warfare has basically ground to a halt? Why is that? ASK FOZZIE!

RKJakTup Giggling Bandits Just let it happen 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:00:57 - [1681] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Kaze Mester wrote: Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days. No the problem is giving people the tools to abuse. They could have added a ton of great high end content but we would have had the same issue with a ton of isk entering the system due to carriers and supers making bank in anoms. not really, i see what your trying to say but they can do it where you cant use caps to do some type of end game just by adding gates. and they can drop supcap mods to bring up the value of subcaps in pve and isk gathering. witch in turn ups the isk value of the ship witch is risk = reward
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6618	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:02:35 - [1682] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. First of all, carrier ratting is NOT afk. You quickly lose more fighters than you earn in any anom if you try it, not to mention you have to actively send the fighters at targets... Second, Paladins, Golems, Tengus, Rattlesnakes, and the list goes on...are ALL capable of making the same kind of ISK carriers can in an anom. Carriers are popular because they have jump drives, are end-game ships, look cool, and most people have trained for a year or longer to fly them. Nerfing carriers, and I mean this literally, isn't going to dent ISK generation. You'd have to be absolutely dense to think that enterprising players aren't going to quickly adapt and move around the nerf. It's the dang principle that's the issue. CCP tried to slip this in an the last minute, bypassed our CSM, and made some stupid lie about how 1% of the players are the only one's affected (think of all the dudes in renting corps, low sec corps/alliances, wormholes, etc that use carriers too). Sure, ISK generation has skyrocketed. Their graph shows this, but have you thought to consider maybe it's because nullsec mechanics are garbage and warfare has basically ground to a halt? Why is that? ASK FOZZIE! No, it is the ISK entering the economy. You want it to be anything but your ISK printer. You are dodging, weaving, and bullshitting with nonsense. Do you think that CCP can't do the following: Graph ISK via ratting by ship type? I'm guessing they can. They did, and they said, "Whoops...****. Gotta fix that." I'll grant you the fix is bad in that it gimps the ships for PVP. But that aside, those ships needed to be gimped for PVE/printing ISK. You were doing too much of it. Enjoy the ISK you got and stop complaining. The party's over and CCP took away the punch bowl. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:05:03 - [1683] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: please attribute that to carrier ratting like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat? have you considered that some might graduated into multibox SB ratting? and also political climate potentially encouraging/allowing more people to rat in relative safety in bigger ships? similarly it was quoted that some alliances are encouraging full on rat mode in prep of the coming winter wars when moon mining is out can it be the cause of a sudden spike? moon mining was introduced in march the same time the spike started
Valdr Auduin CatPack 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:13:33 - [1684] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: please attribute that to carrier ratting like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat? have you considered that some might graduated into multibox SB ratting? and also political climate potentially encouraging/allowing more people to rat in relative safety in bigger ships? similarly it was quoted that some alliances are encouraging full on rat mode in prep of the coming winter wars when moon mining is out can it be the cause of a sudden spike? moon mining was introduced in march the same time the spike started Not to this extent. If anything the argument: "Go rate like crazy we'll be having lots of wars" kinda fits with the narrative "carriers and supers are the problem." People went straight to the optimal ship for ISK printing. As I pointed out a few pages back. The average monthly ISK growth was about 7 trillion ISK. Now last month it was 53 trillion. That is a 757% increase. 757%. Because people are in full ratting mode? Yeah...not buying explanation. Considering that kind of increase has NEVER been seen before. Popular does not equal optimal. Carriers are cool, VNIs are effective and scaleable. VNIs are optimal, carriers are just very prevalent because we come here to have fun, not be utility monsters doing other things while printing isk. VNIs are isk printers, Carriers are isk oil paints. Bob Ross like Carriers.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6618	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:14:32 - [1685] - Quote Bron Ander Haltern wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: please attribute that to carrier ratting like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat? That is just your speculations only not hard data. Probably CCP just follow your thoughts path and that is just truly sad. Plus one can earn twice as much isks smart bombing havens than ratting in a super. Unless CCP shows data that clearly says super/carriers are the main cause, the economy argument that stands behind the cut is ridiculous period. Another sad thing is that whenever any constructive post will apear in this thread on the forum immidiately 2 or 3 persons with a lot of likes post tons of answers with long quotations covering it with gibberish :(. FFS, CCP Quant has made the data available in the Dev Blog. Jesus, you can get it here. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:15:02 - [1686] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: please attribute that to carrier ratting like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat? have you considered that some might graduated into multibox SB ratting? and also political climate potentially encouraging/allowing more people to rat in relative safety in bigger ships? similarly it was quoted that some alliances are encouraging full on rat mode in prep of the coming winter wars when moon mining is out can it be the cause of a sudden spike? moon mining was introduced in march the same time the spike started Not to this extent. If anything the argument: "Go rate like crazy we'll be having lots of wars" kinda fits with the narrative "carriers and supers are the problem." People went straight to the optimal ship for ISK printing. As I pointed out a few pages back. The average monthly ISK growth was about 7 trillion ISK. Now last month it was 53 trillion. That is a 757% increase. 757%. Because people are in full ratting mode? Yeah...not buying explanation. Considering that kind of increase has NEVER been seen before. never seen before doesnt mean it cannot be the case esp given the accessibility of carrier and things like rattlesnakes coming down to around 400m hull(before the recent pirate nerf) compared to the last couple of years and all the blue donuts around as of late is potentially an open door to allow lower sp toons bigger toys to play with. i am relatively new to eve so i want want to argue too much on the case as my knowledge is limited i am just putting out observable facts and providing idea to improve the mechanics to still keep carriers alive cause carrier were my end goal even if i cant rat in it i wanna fly it out and do some good
MajkStone 30plus Fidelas Constans 18	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:15:20 - [1687] - Quote If the object of the designers is to **** off most of the player base until they literally unsubscribe, you guys are doing great! This reminds me of the way SOE handled Star Wars Galaxies. If you really want to fix the economy, ADD MORE CONTENT TO THE GAME. Come up with T3 Battlecruisers/Battleships. Make T2 Capitals. Add more constructables. All this stuff costs more and more isk and will be a nice isk sink. Stop nerfing the supply, and start buffing the demand. You could also just reduce the bounty payouts across the board.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6618	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:15:44 - [1688] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: blaedin jordan wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. First of all, carrier ratting is NOT afk. You quickly lose more fighters than you earn in any anom if you try it, not to mention you have to actively send the fighters at targets... Second, Paladins, Golems, Tengus, Rattlesnakes, and the list goes on...are ALL capable of making the same kind of ISK carriers can in an anom. Carriers are popular because they have jump drives, are end-game ships, look cool, and most people have trained for a year or longer to fly them. Nerfing carriers, and I mean this literally, isn't going to dent ISK generation. You'd have to be absolutely dense to think that enterprising players aren't going to quickly adapt and move around the nerf. It's the dang principle that's the issue. CCP tried to slip this in an the last minute, bypassed our CSM, and made some stupid lie about how 1% of the players are the only one's affected (think of all the dudes in renting corps, low sec corps/alliances, wormholes, etc that use carriers too). Sure, ISK generation has skyrocketed. Their graph shows this, but have you thought to consider maybe it's because nullsec mechanics are garbage and warfare has basically ground to a halt? Why is that? ASK FOZZIE! No, it is the ISK entering the economy. You want it to be anything but your ISK printer. You are dodging, weaving, and bullshitting with nonsense. Do you think that CCP can't do the following: Graph ISK via ratting by ship type? I'm guessing they can. They did, and they said, "Whoops...****. Gotta fix that." I'll grant you the fix is bad in that it gimps the ships for PVP. But that aside, those ships needed to be gimped for PVE/printing ISK. You were doing too much of it. Enjoy the ISK you got and stop complaining. The party's over and CCP took away the punch bowl. Your attempts to become an apologist for these devs and this horrendous nerf fall flat. Carriers don't print isk, they run anoms at the same speed as mauraders, and if anything enjoy a larger tank...but that doesn't help kill anything, does it? And yes, your right in that the nerf applies to PvP, which is probably the larger reason this nerf happened in the 1st place--to neuter Goon, PL, and other super-alliances capital fleets by 20% damage across the board for carriers and 10% for supercaps. But to sit here and insinuate that the next graph isn't going to show the ISK "printing" hasn't shifted from carriers to (one of many other options next) is naive. So keep making excuses for them if you want, but don't expect people to believe you. If there's too much ISK coming into the game, they should fix sov mechanics so people are blowing things up again and work to add isk sinks. NOT to announce giant nerfs to ships people spent months on end training to get into 3 days before they go live--without testing--and without input from our elected CSM representatives. Go look at the data. ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6619	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:17:57 - [1689] - Quote lolzz Quekz wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: please attribute that to carrier ratting like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat? have you considered that some might graduated into multibox SB ratting? and also political climate potentially encouraging/allowing more people to rat in relative safety in bigger ships? similarly it was quoted that some alliances are encouraging full on rat mode in prep of the coming winter wars when moon mining is out can it be the cause of a sudden spike? moon mining was introduced in march the same time the spike started Not to this extent. If anything the argument: "Go rate like crazy we'll be having lots of wars" kinda fits with the narrative "carriers and supers are the problem." People went straight to the optimal ship for ISK printing. As I pointed out a few pages back. The average monthly ISK growth was about 7 trillion ISK. Now last month it was 53 trillion. That is a 757% increase. 757%. Because people are in full ratting mode? Yeah...not buying explanation. Considering that kind of increase has NEVER been seen before. never seen before doesnt mean it cannot be the case esp given the accessibility of carrier and things like rattlesnakes coming down to around 400m hull(before the recent pirate nerf) compared to the last couple of years and all the blue donuts around as of late is potentially an open door to allow lower sp toons bigger toys to play with. i am relatively new to eve so i want want to argue too much on the case as my knowledge is limited i am just putting out observable facts and providing idea to improve the mechanics to still keep carriers alive cause carrier were my end goal even if i cant rat in it i wanna fly it out and do some good In 65 months we have not seen this sudden jump in the growth if ISK...and suddenly it is okay? You are just simply wrong. That kind of growth in the money supply, if sustained, will be devastating in terms of inflation. Go look at the Chinese server were botting is completely allowed and ISK is flowing into the economy at unprecedented rates. PLEX were several multiples of what they cost on Tranquility and that was several years ago. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6619	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:22:28 - [1690] - Quote I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 645	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:22:31 - [1691] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% new sov makes people grind to get indexes up, how much of this is down to replacing lost stuff and the need to grind for sov defenses? something must be done that's for sure, can't sustain a 757% rise
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6619	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:24:19 - [1692] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% new sov makes people grind to get indexes up, how much of this is down to replacing lost stuff and the need to grind for sov defenses? something must be done that's for sure, can't sustain a 757% rise Oh FFS. New sov has been around for longer than last month. Next stupid explanation? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Seiver D'amross Subach-Tech Dot Dot Dot 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:25:28 - [1693] - Quote this seems relevant again http://i.imgur.com/CvBhZER.jpg
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:26:04 - [1694] - Quote "ISK entering the economy has increased by 757%" I understand that talking about, but nerfing carriers isn't going to dent that number. Those that aren't leaving are already flying rattlesnakes, T3s, or mauraders doing the same as before. Heck, I've even got 2 paladins making 30+m ticks whereas my carriers usually only averaged 26+.
Anthar Thebess 1713	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:27:01 - [1695] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved Thread was posted. Players responded, can we have some reply from CCP side, or our input is unimportant? Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 646	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:27:52 - [1696] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% new sov makes people grind to get indexes up, how much of this is down to replacing lost stuff and the need to grind for sov defenses? something must be done that's for sure, can't sustain a 757% rise Oh FFS. New sov has been around for longer than last month. Next stupid explanation? stupid? well fair enough feck face, take your opinion and ram it.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:27:52 - [1697] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Go look at the data. ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% Looks like a lot of farming and production with very few destructions, more or less, stockpiling is occurring and it looks to be occurring mainly in Delve and the way very little is being blown up I'd wager this is Corps and Alliances building up for a big fight. The data makes CCPs nerf look even more reactive and ham-handed, especially since users have clearly demonstrated that ISK farmers ought to be using things like the VNI instead of time-wasters like the carriers. Your **** stinks, Teckos.
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:27:56 - [1698] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% new sov makes people grind to get indexes up, how much of this is down to replacing lost stuff and the need to grind for sov defenses? something must be done that's for sure, can't sustain a 757% rise Oh FFS. New sov has been around for longer than last month. Next stupid explanation? Actually, that's a pretty valid point -- especially when taken into factor that new sov mechanics are very anti-war and nobody enjoys fighting for null sec territory anymore either. It's become quite dull, which just pushes people into pve even more.
lolzz Quekz Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:31:01 - [1699] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. which was my point eve was relatively at war for quite a long while with the blue donut officially forming around feb? march? somewhere along that line have you considered that this insane increase have been potentially attributed to the now safe space to rat and naturally enticing people to rat more to "save up for rainy days" there have been no full scale invasion for the 3 months or so.. and of cause i cant proof anything until the next major war breaks out and only then can we see if the blue donut might actually be the contributing factor to the sudden spike look at it this way.. even during war-times isk was still flowing in.. what would happen once peace comes? alright i am going to stop now i am just saying you cannot attribute everything to just carrer and SC ratting
Valdr Auduin CatPack 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:34:13 - [1700] - Quote I'll reiterate my suggestion to copy/paste Fozzie's SOV mechanics by tying them to planetary command centers and bringing back orbital bombardment and eliminating the in-space node system for planetary capture. Citadels being tough nuts to crack can be ignored because you can then fight around them instead of having to slog directly through them. I don't know how being able to sink PI where right now AFAIK they're invulnerable will affect the market.

Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 11	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:35:54 - [1701] - Quote There is nowhere in economic report any data that shows clearly what ship classes get the most bounty so they can stick that report you know where in regard of supporting fighters cut.
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:39:02 - [1702] - Quote I'll miss my carriers, but I'm actually making more in Marauders now honestly. I'm going to miss playing with my friends that have left more though [I hear rattlesnakes are dope too], the rorq changes have people even madder than I am about the massive nerf to fighters...that forum is going up into flames as well.
Ben Johannson Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans 7	Posted - 2017.06.12 10:39:38 - [1703] - Quote Quote: Look at the data FFS. ISK growth was pretty much flat for quite some time. Interestingly, CCP's own economic releases show no inflation. If that's the case then trajectory of isk quantity is irrelevant.
Noobshot Elongur KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 17	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:06:47 - [1704] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. My "Fozzie frothing at the mouth, pacing back and forth in his office, shouting GRRR GOONS!" sense is tingling. Hey CCP, I actually killed one dread in all the havens I farmed last week with my thanitos. Does that put me in your upper 1% of the 1%? If so, I will ask my corp to make a medal or title.....
Rumi Shanti Center For Exploration Life And PVE 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:27:42 - [1705] - Quote Anna Wong wrote: What about citadels? The damage output especially from the medium citadels is low enough without a further reduction This is a very important point made: Citadels right now are about the worst venture in the game: The vulnerabilities are easy to exploit, and if any given corp or alliance wants you gone, and you're a small guy, you're gone. It leaves these from a beneficial perspective to the elite. For some joe whom wants a little ranch with a few hands to mineral farm and hunt rats all day... You just better hope you don't get noticed. Please make some sort of exception to the fighters as part of citadels, or make a change to buff them in another way to compensate for this. In the current state of things, I will not build an Astrahus until I am almost certain I will not loose my shirt. Other than that, there are big big players whom are farming many lucrative features of the game on a scale that's absurd. The result? These features aren't readily available for everyone else, so the rich get richer... the rest get bored and find a different game to play... These changes are good, and very desperately needed. Good job for having the guts to do it, I know there will be many that are going to be upset for a short bit. Right as the changes were announced I went at a criminal whom targeted me. I went to dock but his buddy in a marauder or something uncloaked and held point on me and bumped me off dock. He was repping the Apocalypse real well, my Barghest died a slow, painful death (it took a good 6 minutes). When it was done I laughed, and told the guys thanks for the fight. They were very mad I didn't pay (yes it was a blackmail setup). I said never and laughed out loud. They were foaming from the mouth angry that I was not shedding tears over my ship...Then I took my lil pod inside the market hub, pulled up the contracts... then i cried! Overnight the price nearly doubled from a rigged and fitted ship to a blueprint for twice as much. But as a brand spanking new player, with no experience, nor knowledge about this game, no rapport with any players, I was able to fly any of these pirate battleships that could alpha many veterans, or whole ganks for that matter.... and with 1 day training needed.... This is a good thing, putting these out of the hands they shouldn't be in (like mine ;) )
Zhu Horizon Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:30:45 - [1706] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. * 2>dev/null Lord Bucketheads opinion
Ashley Miston Ministry of War Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:31:19 - [1707] - Quote almost 1700 replies here and not a single word from ccp.....you can do what you want is your game, and you can keep you big and empty space for yourself if things keep that route....i'm not even mad about the nerf anymore the lack of communication on such stuff rushed in on friday is even worst imho either argoument the nerf with more data and tell us to shut up and why it's needed or come up with a better solution but you can't just simply ignore us (even if looks like we are 1% of 1% of 1%...) and hope we will keep to pay....
Tenaya Masai 15	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:36:03 - [1708] - Quote it just shows the arrogance from CCP. and if the CSM had any sense they would back us on this. cause after all it is the ppl that voted them in...
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1388	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:49:10 - [1709] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: In 65 months we have not seen this sudden jump in the growth if ISK...and suddenly it is okay? You are just simply wrong. That kind of growth in the money supply, if sustained, will be devastating in terms of inflation. Go look at the Chinese server were botting is completely allowed and ISK is flowing into the economy at unprecedented rates. PLEX were several multiples of what they cost on Tranquility and that was several years ago. You can also freely buy characters, Ships and anything else we can't by exchanging RL money with another player. This has NOTHING to do with TQ, it is down to Chinese EULA being modified to suit Chinese regulations. (Techos, stop trying to defend CCP with bullshite excuses) CCP's idea of game "balance" is to make it so the richest largest groups will ALWAYS win the day. 4 nerfs to owning a pirate battleship in ONE release - If that isn't "balance" biased toward the rich, what is? Carriers nerfed into the ground for both PVP and PVE when part of the reason isk income has gone up is due to a coming release advertised by CCP that fundamentally changes the way alliances fight (moon mining and bottom up income) CCP caused the problem and are blaming and punishing players for their poor game design. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Petros K North Korean Nuclear Research Requiem Eternal 5	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:50:30 - [1710] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) . The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time . The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ? Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit .

handsomebeast Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 11:51:50 - [1711] - Quote rip eve been playin a year seen plex go up by a 3rd in isk value, end game stuff nerfed to hell, but lots of skins to buy and only 2 public events. trained a carrier for 8 months to fly well 2 days after nerf to fighter signature which is expensive when loosing t2s, so i spend nearly 2 months gettin fighters 5 and another 65 on carrier 5 now a 30 percent cut to damage as i finish carrier 5 to get some damage its useless. also training rorqual no point now. if you want people to leave just ask nicely dont kick em in the back on the way out ccp
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4107	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:10:02 - [1712] - Quote handsomebeast wrote: rip eve been playin a year seen plex go up by a 3rd in isk value, end game stuff nerfed to hell, but lots of skins to buy and only 2 public events. trained a carrier for 8 months to fly well 2 days after nerf to fighter signature which is expensive when loosing t2s, so i spend nearly 2 months gettin fighters 5 and another 65 on carrier 5 now a 30 percent cut to damage as i finish carrier 5 to get some damage its useless. also training rorqual no point now. if you want people to leave just ask nicely dont kick em in the back on the way out ccp what endgame stuff has been nerfed to hell? Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Blitz Hacker Serious About Space Things. Test Alliance Please Ignore 16	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:12:48 - [1713] - Quote Kestrel Clairvoyant wrote: These calls for massive uprising of players. Whats next? guns are too OP lets fight with sticks in space...#fuCCP Good news is the ratting ships and **** will be VNi's .. which I'm pretty sure you can use in an alpha clone. So we can still grind away albet slower. and watch as these jerks drown #notmysubscription
lolz Quekz Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:20:25 - [1714] - Quote Blitz Hacker wrote: Kestrel Clairvoyant wrote: These calls for massive uprising of players. Whats next? guns are too OP lets fight with sticks in space...#fuCCP Good news is the ratting ships and **** will be VNi's .. which I'm pretty sure you can use in an alpha clone. So we can still grind away albet slower. and watch as these jerks drown #notmysubscription Quant hinted at the possibility of drones nerf or increase AI focus on drones :x
Mark Ryden Backyard Mining Co. Integritas Constans 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:28:49 - [1715] - Quote Not sure if anyone already suggested this, but if all players stop doing PvP and focus on PvE for one week only, CCP may actually realize that this is not a Problem of overpowering ships. This is because a large player group is focusing efforts to into a certain direction. With pure numbers you can outsmart any of those "brilliant" nerfs that again only really hit the small Teams that can't fuekd those numbers.... CCP you better think first next time!!
C09 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:29:54 - [1716] - Quote About economy, since PLEX cost was 400 milions noone need or dream to do PVE with a carrier... lol ...
lolz Quekz Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:32:59 - [1717] - Quote Mark Ryden wrote: Not sure if anyone already suggested this, but if all players stop doing PvP and focus on PvE for one week only, CCP may actually realize that this is not a Problem of overpowering ships. This is because a large player group is focusing efforts to into a certain direction. With pure numbers you can outsmart any of those "brilliant" nerfs that again only really hit the small Teams that can't fuekd those numbers.... CCP you better think first next time!! i pointed out the possibility earlier today that eve was basically on perma war for a period of time and yet still bounty income was rising steadily and that the recent blue donut after the moon mining was introduced and all the people pulling out from the front lines may have contributed to this sudden increase as there is nothing for people to do other than preparing for the next war which naturally means stockpiling assets and got smacked and said it has never happened before so it will not happen again edit: i have not been in eve long enough to know the effects of another other example of a peaceful age but the political climate right now seems to point in that possibility
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:46:31 - [1718] - Quote Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) . The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time . The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ? Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit . Your method is also scaleable across alts where a carrier isn't, the time-cost is irrelevant when you can double your number of PLEX'd subs every day. And no I'm not discounting the training time, that's irrelevant when skill injectors exist and each VNI is making 500 Plex a day. The VNI multi-box is a runaway exploit, carriers just make one single account very efficient to farm.
X Minx X Ops Hell's Pirates 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 12:56:44 - [1719] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage. Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Doesn't matter what we all write I doubt ccp would read change direction. Probably a good time to put account into hiatus again.
Petros K North Korean Nuclear Research Requiem Eternal 7	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:10:10 - [1720] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) . The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time . The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ? Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit . Your method is also scaleable across alts where a carrier isn't, the time-cost is irrelevant when you can double your number of PLEX'd subs every day. And no I'm not discounting the training time, that's irrelevant when skill injectors exist and each VNI is making 500 Plex a day. The VNI multi-box is a runaway exploit, carriers just make one single account very efficient to farm. You get exactly my point , carriers not only shouldnt get nerfed but instead they should get boosted for that sole reason . Just one month of AFK mining is enough to buy enough skill injectors for super decend VNI skills , after that you can buy 1x Skill injector every 2 days, which will reduce almost 8days from skill training queue . Its a matter of weeks before you are able to max out the damage potential of a very easy to use ship . (of course calculate the plex cost into that ) I really expected EVE to be harder , of course ratting the whole day isnt something enjoyable but right now this is the best way to "catch up" with older players . What i really dont understand is why CCP is moving aggresive with a solution which will create a hole in the water , these choices is something that an outsider would do . Neither lowering the boundy would make any significant difference , the prices would just adjust to the possible income of the players . Therefore my conclusion is that either CCP doesnt know their game OR there are other motives behind this sudden change .

Side1Bu2Rnz9 Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:10:37 - [1721] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom... You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead...
cursedlion Chains of Honor Affirmative. 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:14:50 - [1722] - Quote Ah how funny all these things sound to us the wormholers. how insignificant.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16139	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:22:00 - [1723] - Quote cursedlion wrote: Ah how funny all these things sound to us the wormholers. how insignificant. It's not just wormholers. I'm a null sec guy through and through, and ratting is my main thing and has been for the 9 + years I've been playing in null. And I think it's pretty insignificant too, of course I never let myself get sucked into carrier ratting because anyone with eyes who has watched CCP over the years knew that it would get nerfed hard eventually.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16139	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:26:19 - [1724] - Quote Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom... You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead... It's ok if people replace ONE character carrier or super ratting with 4-5 ishtars. Those things die more often and will be a materiel sink, and the transaction fees from buy 4-5 characters worth of plex per month are increased isk sinks. That's kinda the whole point lol. And the "cold war" has nothing to do with it. EVE has gone through periods of MUCH less activity than what we have right now and the economy never did what this one is doing. The simple truth is that CCP put Fighter squadrons into the game without understanding how good they would be for killing NPCs. Now they are fixing that mistake at least partially and people are acting like CCP just banged their moms while streaming it on Twitch.
Guillejejeje XDD What The FAX 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:30:59 - [1725] - Quote Remove asset safety that would create a lot of content and fights. becose atm there is no point in shooting a citadel. when some years ago you enter a system and all people was on station fighting now you enter a system and there is 100 citadels with 1 guy docked on each citadel 0 content.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1525	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:48:45 - [1726] - Quote Atrinos wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Atrinos wrote: The dev Team really have nuts. The Last time they decided to bring such ** online was the walking in Stations Feature. They completely ignored any other problems and the Player base just raged out. Who was part of the Monument shooting in jita? This time it could be much worse. And also the CSM team proofed the be completely incompetent.... Lets see how this will end this time. Renter trash not understanding how the CSM works. I don't give a single ** about what you were thinking about Reuters. We are Part of the Player base and we are also allowed to vote Go to reddit there are much more ppl thinking Like i am that this changes are stupid. Or just read this thread All I'm reading in this thread is the crying of people like you that have no clue how stuff works (e.g. the CSM - CCP doesn't have to tell them anything and even if they do, they don't have to give a rats' ass about the CSMs opinion) and the crying of people that are butthurt their utterly broken money source gets fixed. Carriers aren't supposed to be solo pwnage ships in PvP and they also aren't supposed to be able to farm insane amounts of ISK, massively inflating the economy in the process. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Akrasjel Lanate Lanate Industries 1999	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:53:33 - [1727] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Then why won't you simply decrease reward from NPC Bounties. Nerfing one ship type won't solve the problem. CEO of Lanate Industries Citizen of Solitude
blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2017.06.12 13:57:11 - [1728] - Quote Linus Gorp wrote: Atrinos wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Atrinos wrote: The dev Team really have nuts. The Last time they decided to bring such ** online was the walking in Stations Feature. They completely ignored any other problems and the Player base just raged out. Who was part of the Monument shooting in jita? This time it could be much worse. And also the CSM team proofed the be completely incompetent.... Lets see how this will end this time. Renter trash not understanding how the CSM works. I don't give a single ** about what you were thinking about Reuters. We are Part of the Player base and we are also allowed to vote Go to reddit there are much more ppl thinking Like i am that this changes are stupid. Or just read this thread All I'm reading in this thread is the crying of people like you that have no clue how stuff works (e.g. the CSM - CCP doesn't have to tell them anything and even if they do, they don't have to give a rats' ass about the CSMs opinion) and the crying of people that are butthurt their utterly broken money source gets fixed. Carriers aren't supposed to be solo pwnage ships in PvP and they also aren't supposed to be able to farm insane amounts of ISK, massively inflating the economy in the process. No? What are these endgame ships supposed to be? Giant paperweights? I ask because that's what they're becoming. A 20% nerf to fighter damage is not only going to hit carriers either, it's going to hit citadels -- which are already pretty weak to begin with...and there's no way the nerf to fighters is going to stem the flow of isk when carrier pilots (those that still play) will do what the incursion ratters do and run marauders in null sec JUST AS EASILY. Your point is mute. Without isk sinks this is just a nasty nerf to beloved ships that will not address the problem they think it will, thus the anger.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1525	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:07:13 - [1729] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Atrinos wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Atrinos wrote: The dev Team really have nuts. The Last time they decided to bring such ** online was the walking in Stations Feature. They completely ignored any other problems and the Player base just raged out. Who was part of the Monument shooting in jita? This time it could be much worse. And also the CSM team proofed the be completely incompetent.... Lets see how this will end this time. Renter trash not understanding how the CSM works. I don't give a single ** about what you were thinking about Reuters. We are Part of the Player base and we are also allowed to vote Go to reddit there are much more ppl thinking Like i am that this changes are stupid. Or just read this thread All I'm reading in this thread is the crying of people like you that have no clue how stuff works (e.g. the CSM - CCP doesn't have to tell them anything and even if they do, they don't have to give a rats' ass about the CSMs opinion) and the crying of people that are butthurt their utterly broken money source gets fixed. Carriers aren't supposed to be solo pwnage ships in PvP and they also aren't supposed to be able to farm insane amounts of ISK, massively inflating the economy in the process. No? What are these endgame ships supposed to be? Giant paperweights? I ask because that's what they're becoming. A 20% nerf to fighter damage is not only going to hit carriers either, it's going to hit citadels -- which are already pretty weak to begin with...and there's no way the nerf to fighters is going to stem the flow of isk when carrier pilots (those that still play) will do what the incursion ratters do and run marauders in null sec JUST AS EASILY. Your point is mute. Without isk sinks this is just a nasty nerf to beloved ships that will not address the problem they think it will, thus the anger. There is no "end game" in EVE. Citadels aren't supposed to be able to defend themselves. They have their weapons to assist a defending fleet, not replace it. Marauders dish out less damage and the bastion module makes them immobile and thus easier to tackle for hostiles than carriers are. It's moot, not mute. And that's what your comment is. Just more crying without any argument or logic behind it. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
handsomebeast Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:15:52 - [1730] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: handsomebeast wrote: rip eve been playin a year seen plex go up by a 3rd in isk value, end game stuff nerfed to hell, but lots of skins to buy and only 2 public events. trained a carrier for 8 months to fly well 2 days after nerf to fighter signature which is expensive when loosing t2s, so i spend nearly 2 months gettin fighters 5 and another 65 on carrier 5 now a 30 percent cut to damage as i finish carrier 5 to get some damage its useless. also training rorqual no point now. if you want people to leave just ask nicely dont kick em in the back on the way out ccp what endgame stuff has been nerfed to hell? carriers are one under a titan at the top of the ship tree so to me its end game or close to it with a carrier

blaedin jordan Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:19:58 - [1731] - Quote 1. Carriers are top tier ships, for that purpose they very much are endgame ships. 2. Citadels shouldn't defend themselves, what kind of logic is that? Why give them defenses if they aren't supposed to be able to defend themselves effectively in the first place? Truth is CCP, no matter how much loyalist like you want to defend them, very likely didn't even "think" about the effect it would have on them when they tried to sneak this into tomorrow's update at the last minute. Shame on them for their lack of communication with us as well. 3. Marauders can breeze through sanctums and havens -- in addition to running 10/10s...so I'm not sure what your even talking about...do you need help with a fit? 4. Thanks for the grammar fix.
Altair Taurus 49	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:32:36 - [1732] - Quote Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead... That is very true! As a single-account player (I have also second now inactive cyno alt) I decided to go to null-sec and to make carrier ratting my basic source of income there. During last year I invested heavily in training capital ships and fighters. Yet now I noticed CCP basically robbed me (several months long training time if post-nerf T2 fighters now will be worse than pre-nerf T1 fighters !) so I look like naive sucker! I do not have many accounts to be able to run level 4 missions and incursions on neutral alts or multibox AFK ratting in VNIs. Therefore tomorrow I will have to decide if return to high-sec permanently or leave this game for good. However I'd like to know what is your real strategic goal? Is your goal to slap in the face active single account players and reward multiboxing AFK botters? Is you real goal to develop an unique at the world stage game rewarding not playing it instead of actively playing it? If so, you really deserve to be in the Guinness World Records. Of course you completely omit issues causing real ISK faucet: market machinations, RMT businesses, a hundred bots strong multiboxing fleets etc. I can understand that - it is easier to kick in the a$$ single account fair players than fight those well organized activities.
Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 215	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:36:58 - [1733] - Quote Devs are utter fracking morons. Yeah, let's mess with fighters, because people are making too much money in PvE. That makes a lot of sense. Fracking morons. Listen, idiots. If you want to adjust the economy, I dunno, let me think about this for a second... ADJUST THE FRACKING ECONOMY. DON'T CHANGE SHIPS. Is that too complicated to comprehend? Great, you don't understand that carriers are used for more than PvE. So you keep nerfing them because of PvE. Stupid 'effing morons. It's like, I'd expect a random low-IQ idiot off the street with no experience in math, rational thought, or balancing games to come up with better solutions than you idiots. Someone contact me when they hire a new balance team which has average IQ above 75 or so. Thanks.
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 14	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:44:22 - [1734] - Quote Let's sum up what we got so far. Since facts are flooded with gibberish over and over on the forum. CCP Larkin has written: "1. We are making this change because Carriers & Super carriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec.... (there are no hard data in the report about what ship class generates what amount of, so basically it is not sure what makes CCP thinks like that unless it is an assumption or an opinion or a guess (might be educated but still a guess) on the subject.) 2. We also think that Carriers and Super carriers are a bit too effective in PvP.... (on what basis again? It is arguable. The kestrel and rattle pilot will always say supers/carriers are OP while caps pilot just opposite" On the basis of these two assumptions CCP decided to massively cut damage of fighters and nerf their sustainability on anomalies. The proposed changes were announced all of sudden 5 days before the introductory patch without testing it on sisi. (Why this rush for CCP, honestly?) The fighters changes will have tremendous impact on: 1 PVE side of the game; 2 PVP side of the game; 3 Citadel defense abilities. It will also ruin most players dreams, goals and game play (not everybody is RMTers or multi account farmer) those who wants to develop, want to grow in order to be faster, better, stronger, not eternal kestrels or rattlesnakes pilots. At the end CCP Dev writes we will introduce the changes, observe and adjust. And I wouldn't say a damn word if EVE was not advertised as a game that is developed with players where Devs listen what players have to say.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18967	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:44:24 - [1735] - Quote RKJakTup wrote: not really, i see what your trying to say but they can do it where you cant use caps to do some type of end game just by adding gates. and they can drop supcap mods to bring up the value of subcaps in pve and isk gathering. witch in turn ups the isk value of the ship witch is risk = reward Add gates and you make the problem of not being able to catch anyone bigger. What they could do is make this change as a temporary fix and then move to make anoms unfarmable for supers by adding dreadnoughts that don't have a bounty that spawn if a capital is on grid. They then unerf carriers and supers.
Crash 888 TRINTEX 16	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:46:21 - [1736] - Quote They "messed with fighters" a year ago by releasing these stupid new ones. Now they are unmessing them. If a bank set out cards that cause ATMs to pay out 3x as much money, is the answer, to just cancel those cards? Or to decrease the wages of everyone in the country?
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1527	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:46:32 - [1737] - Quote blaedin jordan wrote: 2. Citadels shouldn't defend themselves, what kind of logic is that? Why give them defenses if they aren't supposed to be able to defend themselves effectively in the first place? It's called game balance. Something you obviously do not understand, rendering any possibly worthwhile discussion with you moot right from the start. blaedin jordan wrote: Truth is CCP, no matter how much loyalist like you want to defend them, very likely didn't even "think" about the effect it would have on them when they tried to sneak this into tomorrow's update at the last minute. Shame on them for their lack of communication with us as well. I'm not a CCP loyalist. Anyone that knows me even a little bit would tell you that I'm the complete opposite of it and constantly ** talk CCP for all the **** additions they make to the game (new scanning system, new map, new inventory, new camera, ...). But the thing is, this change is badly needed**. Everyone with half a brain understands it and the only ones crying about it are spoiled brats like yourself. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4109	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:47:35 - [1738] - Quote handsomebeast wrote: Lan Wang wrote: handsomebeast wrote: rip eve been playin a year seen plex go up by a 3rd in isk value, end game stuff nerfed to hell, but lots of skins to buy and only 2 public events. trained a carrier for 8 months to fly well 2 days after nerf to fighter signature which is expensive when loosing t2s, so i spend nearly 2 months gettin fighters 5 and another 65 on carrier 5 now a 30 percent cut to damage as i finish carrier 5 to get some damage its useless. also training rorqual no point now. if you want people to leave just ask nicely dont kick em in the back on the way out ccp what endgame stuff has been nerfed to hell? carriers are one under a titan at the top of the ship tree so to me its end game or close to it with a carrier then whats been nerfed to hell? carriers use to be an even bigger train as you had to have triage also trained which made them only really used as a logi ship and a pretty tight niche ship, now everyone flies carriers, when faxes got introduced carriers were buffed to the high hills giving them a totally different role and made carriers overpowered as hell. If you feel its that bad and {insert pirate battleship} works soo much better, then use a battleship and extract your skills, ccp has made it so you any skill choices you make can easily be reverted. Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18967	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:48:06 - [1739] - Quote Akrasjel Lanate wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Then why won't you simply decrease reward from NPC Bounties. Nerfing one ship type won't solve the problem. Because that also hurts the many more people who were not causing a problem.
Altair Taurus 50	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:49:36 - [1740] - Quote I think by introducing this nerf CCP robs single account players investments and will force them to use multiple accounts or simply purchase ISK for real money if they want to enjoy end-game content in the future. Of course well organized RMT/botting EVE shadow communities are completely safe!

Khan Wrenth HC - BLUEberryPIE 782	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:50:26 - [1741] - Quote Well, it took several days of intermittent reading to do it, but I finally read through all this. I've done my best to understand everyone's perspective even if I disagreed with their point. At the end of it all, I'm more inclined to agree with Teckos Pech and Jenn A Side. But I'm also inclined to agree with several other posters in that this seems to be a bizarre circumstance where the changes both go too far and not nearly far enough. I'll preface this by saying I'm going to accept CCP's assertion at face value - that the bounties are too dang high and carriers/supers are to blame. Given that premise, the changes don't feel like they will have enough of an impact (on the PvE side) to achieve with CCP seems to desire. For sure, this will slow down carrier ratting. But the staggering numbers we've been provided are not going to be curtailed by this nerf alone. On the PvP side, I've read a lot of posts about the possible knock-on effects there. Some people have said carriers have higher sustained DPS than other capitals. Maybe that's true. But it feels like that's the benefit you get for having DPS that can be jammed or killed off. Does CCP genuinely feel that carriers are too powerful in PvP? Maybe that is the case, but I have not heard a lot of complaining about OP carriers ever since the last round of fighter nerfs. I was assuming everything was finally balanced well. Overall if the economy concerns are genuine and dire (which they seem to be), this wouldn't be the way I would fix it. I would implement temporary measures in place to stall the carrier PvE side while more permanent solutions could be worked on. There's been a bunch of ideas thrown around in this thread as alternate methods to deal with carrier PvE that would be workable as a temporary placeholder to be removed once the permanent solutions were in place. My solution would be tweaking some NPCs and their aggro, along with the contents of sites. Simply put, I would want a small handful of specific "elite" NPC frigates in each room/wave. These frigates would have very long orbit and attack ranges (80-100km), and 100% preferred aggro against drones and fighters alike. But they'd only do a few damage per second, maybe as little as three to ten DPS each. I'd also have their weapon resolution and tracking somewhere around large weapon groups, meaning these specific NPCs would not be a threat to moving drones. Altogether they aren't much of a threat against the player but they would steadily eat through unattended sentry drones, while not being a potent enough DPS presence to shoot through the reps of a small remote repairer. Then make sure a few (2-3 perhaps) spawn a few times per site, and that slows down afk sentry ratting while leaving active piloting largely unaffected. Sure it's not a perfect solution and some tweaks would have to be made from there, but we just need to adjust enough to re-stabilize things and that seems like it would be a good starting point. As for the capital side of the equation, upping the fighter aggro seems like it would be enough. Every time you have to pull fighters you're losing time and money, even if none of your fighters die. If carrier fighters are causing this big of an issue with bounties, skyrocketing the aggro chance seems like it would be the optimal and strategically targeted solution. Then you can focus on the PvP side of carriers and make decisions that are based solely on the merits there. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1527	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:53:12 - [1742] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: I think by introducing this nerf CCP robs single account players investments and will force them to use multiple accounts or simply purchase ISK for real money if they want to enjoy end-game content in the future. Of course well organized RMT/botting EVE shadow communities are completely safe! You're dumb as **. If you don't understand ANYTHING AT ALL about economics, then don't ***** comment on it. They keyword for you to look up is inflation. Now go and educate yourself. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Altair Taurus 50	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:54:24 - [1743] - Quote ^^^ How much accounts do you have? 50, 100, 200??? Is this your real economy???
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1532	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:54:30 - [1744] - Quote Beast of Revelations wrote: Devs are utter fracking morons. Yeah, let's mess with fighters, because people are making too much money in PvE. That makes a lot of sense. Fracking morons. Listen, idiots. If you want to adjust the economy, I dunno, let me think about this for a second... ADJUST THE FRACKING ECONOMY. DON'T CHANGE SHIPS. Is that too complicated to comprehend? Great, you don't understand that carriers are used for more than PvE. So you keep nerfing them because of PvE. Stupid 'effing morons. It's like, I'd expect a random low-IQ idiot off the street with no experience in math, rational thought, or balancing games to come up with better solutions than you idiots. Someone contact me when they hire a new balance team which has average IQ above 75 or so. Thanks. The only idiotic moron I see here is yourself. Your post has more intellectual holes than a Swiss cheese. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Bron Ander Haltern Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 14	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:55:19 - [1745] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Akrasjel Lanate wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Then why won't you simply decrease reward from NPC Bounties. Nerfing one ship type won't solve the problem. Because that also hurts the many more people who were not causing a problem. Players that play a computer game paying real money for it are causing problems, seriously? Why because they play too much with too big ships?
Krieg Austern 57	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:55:44 - [1746] - Quote The patch notes for tomorrow are up, and this change is going live. Patch notes
Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 215	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:56:48 - [1747] - Quote Hey morons. If carriers rake in too much ISK ratting anomalies, I dunno, let me think for 5 quick seconds... thinking... HEY! What about some of these options! 1) Reduce bounties. 2) Reduce amount of ISK that can be made in these anoms. 3) Ban carriers from these anoms (stick a gate on them, whatever). 4) Make new lower-ISK, higher-risk anoms which carriers can go into. Ah, nevermind, let's just go to the first moronic idea that jumps into our heads - nerfing a ship HA HA HA! Someone contact me at my private email once a balance team is hired with average IQ above 70.
Ayel T'khane Decompression Theory Digital Vendetta 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:57:07 - [1748] - Quote Nerfing the biggest and most powerful ships in new eden to fix the economy ?! Carriers and Supers OP ?! making good money ?! CCP do you have any idea how risky it is to undock those god damn gank magnets ?! you have been developing this game since 2003 and now after all the experience nerfing is the only thing you can think of ? how about you FIX IT BY CHANGING HOW THE F*** ECONOMY WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE ?!!!
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1532	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:58:46 - [1749] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: ^^^ How much accounts do you have? 50, 100, 200??? Plenty. I also have a working brain, critical thinking skills and intelligence far beyond that of the average human. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Altair Taurus 50	Posted - 2017.06.12 14:59:47 - [1750] - Quote ^^^ It must be true to be able to fly 100 Rorqs simultaneously. Anyway because CCP ignored our opinions I will ignore CCP starting tomorrow. I wish you more and more bots in EVE. Maybe some day you will remain alone with bots only in your universe. Bye, bye!

Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:02:56 - [1751] - Quote Linus Gorp wrote: Altair Taurus wrote: I think by introducing this nerf CCP robs single account players investments and will force them to use multiple accounts or simply purchase ISK for real money if they want to enjoy end-game content in the future. Of course well organized RMT/botting EVE shadow communities are completely safe! You're dumb as **. If you don't understand ANYTHING AT ALL about economics, then don't ***** comment on it. The keyword for you to look up is inflation. Now go and educate yourself. Definitely an apologist, no doubt about it--an angry, triggered one at that. These changes suck, nearly everyone thinks so.
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 300	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:04:07 - [1752] - Quote Ayel T'khane wrote: Nerfing the biggest and most powerful ships in new eden to fix the economy ?! Carriers and Supers OP ?! making good money ?! CCP do you have any idea how risky it is to undock those god damn gank magnets ?! you have been developing this game since 2003 and now after all the experience nerfing is the only thing you can think of ? how about you FIX IT BY CHANGING HOW THE F*** ECONOMY WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE ?!!! If only CCP replaced their economist that left to be a dean of a university, oh wait they did they hired someone from EA to oversee marketing....
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:05:04 - [1753] - Quote Thead Enco wrote: Ayel T'khane wrote: Nerfing the biggest and most powerful ships in new eden to fix the economy ?! Carriers and Supers OP ?! making good money ?! CCP do you have any idea how risky it is to undock those god damn gank magnets ?! you have been developing this game since 2003 and now after all the experience nerfing is the only thing you can think of ? how about you FIX IT BY CHANGING HOW THE F*** ECONOMY WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE ?!!! If only CCP replaced their economist that left to be a dean of a university, oh wait they did they hired someone from EA to oversee marketing.... Did they really? EA kills every game that's unlucky enough to fall into their hands...!
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6626	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:13:08 - [1754] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: In 65 months we have not seen this sudden jump in the growth if ISK...and suddenly it is okay? You are just simply wrong. That kind of growth in the money supply, if sustained, will be devastating in terms of inflation. Go look at the Chinese server were botting is completely allowed and ISK is flowing into the economy at unprecedented rates. PLEX were several multiples of what they cost on Tranquility and that was several years ago. You can also freely buy characters, Ships and anything else we can't by exchanging RL money with another player. This has NOTHING to do with TQ, it is down to Chinese EULA being modified to suit Chinese regulations. (Techos, stop trying to defend CCP with bullshite excuses) CCP's idea of game "balance" is to make it so the richest largest groups will ALWAYS win the day. 4 nerfs to owning a pirate battleship in ONE release - If that isn't "balance" biased toward the rich, what is? Carriers nerfed into the ground for both PVP and PVE when part of the reason isk income has gone up is due to a coming release advertised by CCP that fundamentally changes the way alliances fight (moon mining and bottom up income) CCP caused the problem and are blaming and punishing players for their poor game design. And another economic ignoramus. Yes, people can do things on the Chinese server they can't do here and that leads to ALOT of ISK entering the economy and there being lots of inflation. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Altair Taurus 50	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:14:08 - [1755] - Quote Wow! My statements really hurt a hundred accounts intelligent owners! Yay!
Aleverette Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 23	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:16:34 - [1756] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: blaedin jordan wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% new sov makes people grind to get indexes up, how much of this is down to replacing lost stuff and the need to grind for sov defenses? something must be done that's for sure, can't sustain a 757% rise Oh FFS. New sov has been around for longer than last month. Next stupid explanation? Actually, that's a pretty valid point -- especially when taken into factor that new sov mechanics are very anti-war and nobody enjoys fighting for null sec territory anymore either. It's become quite dull, which just pushes people into pve even more. How long has Fozzie Sov been around and what happened to the ISK supply in that time? It was not going up like it is now. If this IS the explanation why was ISK growth so tepid for so long? This is just grasping at straws. Articulate why ISK did not grow for months and months, then suddenly BOOM it grows at such a rapid rate. Because the skill gap for carriers, not everyone can afford 30 skill injectors or buy a carrier character via market. The reason is quite complicated, but I am sure the fozzie sov is one part of it; on the other hand, capital change and skill injectors is the other part of it; maybe the introduction of sotiyo is also invloved in this party. It is a slow process of accumulation, once the amount of ratting carriers reach a certain point, then BOOM.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:16:51 - [1757] - Quote Krieg Austern wrote: The patch notes for tomorrow are up, and this change is going live. Patch notes Funny, the Vexor and Ishtar got graphical updates.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6626	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:19:36 - [1758] - Quote Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) . The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time . The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ? Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit . Sure extremes are possible...so what? The question really is, "Where is this ISK coming from?" CCP is saying carriers and supers. Pretty much everyone else is saying, "CCP is lying because :reasons:!!!!" But why would CCP lie? Why deliberately **** of players, why deliberately risk having so many leave the game...for something that is not true and won't help the situation? Tears? GMAFB. IRL you can't sell tears, you can't buy anything with them. Money talks, bullshit walks. Oh, and if a carrier is 3x as efficient as a single VNI, you can make that 250 million ISK and only rat for 2 hours giving you back 4 hours of leisure time. You'd be a complete dumbass or have no life not to make that trade. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Aleverette Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 23	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:20:07 - [1759] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: In 65 months we have not seen this sudden jump in the growth if ISK...and suddenly it is okay? You are just simply wrong. That kind of growth in the money supply, if sustained, will be devastating in terms of inflation. Go look at the Chinese server were botting is completely allowed and ISK is flowing into the economy at unprecedented rates. PLEX were several multiples of what they cost on Tranquility and that was several years ago. You can also freely buy characters, Ships and anything else we can't by exchanging RL money with another player. This has NOTHING to do with TQ, it is down to Chinese EULA being modified to suit Chinese regulations. (Techos, stop trying to defend CCP with bullshite excuses) CCP's idea of game "balance" is to make it so the richest largest groups will ALWAYS win the day. 4 nerfs to owning a pirate battleship in ONE release - If that isn't "balance" biased toward the rich, what is? Carriers nerfed into the ground for both PVP and PVE when part of the reason isk income has gone up is due to a coming release advertised by CCP that fundamentally changes the way alliances fight (moon mining and bottom up income) CCP caused the problem and are blaming and punishing players for their poor game design. And another economic ignoramus. Yes, people can do things on the Chinese server they can't do here and that leads to ALOT of ISK entering the economy and there being lots of inflation. Carriers pilots are different in Serenity and TQ, so you cannot mix them up together. Those pilots in the fking Chinese server are all bots, yet here in TQ (at least most of them) are living human. You can open 10 ratting bots accounts at the same time, yet you can barely control two carriers at the same time as a human. ie. When ratting gets nerfed in Serenity, you are just kicking some isk farmers' butts, yet if dev do the same thing here, they are hurting mostly players.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1546	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:21:02 - [1760] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: Wow! My statements really hurt a hundred accounts intelligent owners! Yay! My brain hurts every time I read this forum. For a game where the average player is smarter than the average human, there sure are a lot of stupid people around here. But then again, the average human is fairly dumb already, so it's not particularly hard to pass that bar. A miracle humanity managed to survive this long. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Smalahove Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:21:15 - [1761] - Quote Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6626	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:22:22 - [1762] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Petros K wrote: Start Middle End Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours . VNI , 5months old noob player . Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier ) 3 Episodes of Blood-C ALOT YOUTUBE ALOT OF CHATTINGS Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner . Drunk 3 coffees Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! ) Sure , carriers is the problem ..... Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time? Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm. Like I said, please do not go full moron. Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) . The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time . The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ? Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit . Your method is also scaleable across alts where a carrier isn't, the time-cost is irrelevant when you can double your number of PLEX'd subs every day. And no I'm not discounting the training time, that's irrelevant when skill injectors exist and each VNI is making 500 Plex a day. The VNI multi-box is a runaway exploit, carriers just make one single account very efficient to farm. Good lord.... The costs also scale....linearly--i.e. there are no economies of scale here, if anything there maybe diseconomies of scale. That is as you use more alts each one becomes slightly less productive as attention is divided, and that divided attention may result in a higher likelihood of ship loss reducing your net gains. Christ, you people really love your straws don't you. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:23:09 - [1763] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Go look at the data. ISK entering the economy has increased by 757% Looks like a lot of farming and production with very few destructions, more or less, stockpiling is occurring and it looks to be occurring mainly in Delve and the way very little is being blown up I'd wager this is Corps and Alliances building up for a big fight. The data makes CCPs nerf look even more reactive and ham-handed, especially since users have clearly demonstrated that ISK farmers ought to be using things like the VNI instead of time-wasters like the carriers. Your **** stinks, Teckos. Production does not result in more ISK. The sources of ISK are listed in the MER. Yes, I in no way implied that the production was causing the ISK inflation, that would be 'farming' another activity large corporations devote time and energy to doing in large quantities.
Crash 888 TRINTEX 16	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:23:49 - [1764] - Quote Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. Not controlling the crowd very well now are they Perhaps they should put out some concept art for player stargates or something, calm the nerds down.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1546	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:24:07 - [1765] - Quote Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6626	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:25:19 - [1766] - Quote Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom... You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead... You don't see the inherent contradiction in your post there do you? A carrier was good for a person who can't afford to pay for his sub, but he'll expand his accounts by 3 or 4...and find the money somewhere? Never mind that using VNIs are less efficient meaning he'll have to rate even longer for each of these accounts to PLEX them. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6627	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:27:21 - [1767] - Quote baltec1 wrote: RKJakTup wrote: not really, i see what your trying to say but they can do it where you cant use caps to do some type of end game just by adding gates. and they can drop supcap mods to bring up the value of subcaps in pve and isk gathering. witch in turn ups the isk value of the ship witch is risk = reward Add gates and you make the problem of not being able to catch anyone bigger. What they could do is make this change as a temporary fix and then move to make anoms unfarmable for supers by adding dreadnoughts that don't have a bounty that spawn if a capital is on grid. They then unerf carriers and supers. I like it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Longdrinks The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 256	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:27:29 - [1768] - Quote good solid change, capital ships are for noobs
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:30:12 - [1769] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom... You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead... You don't see the inherent contradiction in your post there do you? A carrier was good for a person who can't afford to pay for his sub, but he'll expand his accounts by 3 or 4...and find the money somewhere? Never mind that using VNIs are less efficient meaning he'll have to rate even longer for each of these accounts to PLEX them. Yes, but VNI-ratting is sustainable over longer periods to the point, as demonstrated, of breaking the cost margin.
Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 217	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:32:16 - [1770] - Quote Written on a white board somewhere inside CCP... __________________ PROBLEM: Too much ISK. SOLUTION: Adjust PvP balance. Seriously? BWAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

She11by Big Boys Don't Cry Kids With Guns Alliance 18	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:36:55 - [1771] - Quote So basically you are forcing people to WORK in EVE not PLAY it. P.S. In pvp, carriers and motherships are already 100% useless to any ship with AB or low signature, and we are not even talking about 3-5 fragile downgraded drones that are called ' squads '
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 302	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:41:06 - [1772] - Quote She11by wrote: So basically you are forcing people to WORK in EVE not PLAY it. P.S. In pvp, carriers and motherships are already 100% useless to any ship with AB or low signature, and we are not even talking about 3-5 fragile downgraded drones that are called ' squads ' And buy more PLEX to supplement your income.
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:43:33 - [1773] - Quote Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a **** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters.
Kortes Ellecon INSePaRaBLeS Wings Wanderers 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:45:23 - [1774] - Quote 1800 replies under this thread ,but 0 response from ccp .The situation of players for now .Currently online: 24,732 Max (24h): 35,914 (2017-06-11 19:34 online: 65,303 (2013-05-05) so its the result of your update strategy . its 3rd big fail from ccp after "epic fatigue update" which leads to killing game online if u will release this update online will be down under 20000 again .So think twice before releasing your "epic rebalance ideas" .
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3178	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:50:26 - [1775] - Quote baltec1 wrote: What they could do is make this change as a temporary fix and then move to make anoms unfarmable for supers by adding dreadnoughts that don't have a bounty that spawn if a capital is on grid. They then unerf carriers and supers. That would be better. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1549	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:50:50 - [1776] - Quote Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a ** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. To put in the effort to like my own posts I'd have to give a ** about likes in the first place. I don't. And just a tip. If you want to argue with me on a logical level, then use logic. Tears and illogical emotional made-up arguments don't qualify. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 219	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:51:36 - [1777] - Quote Sam Khanid wrote: If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. Already done.
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.12 15:52:42 - [1778] - Quote Linus Gorp wrote: Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a ** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. To put in the effort to like my own posts I'd have to give a ** about likes in the first place. I don't. And just a tip. If you want to argue with me on a logical level, then use logic. Tears and illogical emotional made-up arguments don't qualify. Your logic equates to: agree with me or I'm going to insult your intelligence, you're hardly a person one can reason with--just an apologist defending the update. It's not like anyone reading your posts isn't going to be able to see through it, so I'll leave it at that.
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:03:23 - [1779] - Quote Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a **** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. That's why he was kicked from BB. Just ignore that crying girl
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1549	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:05:55 - [1780] - Quote Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a ** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. To put in the effort to like my own posts I'd have to give a ** about likes in the first place. I don't. And just a tip. If you want to argue with me on a logical level, then use logic. Tears and illogical emotional made-up arguments don't qualify. Your logic equates to: agree with me or I'm going to insult your intelligence, you're hardly a person one can reason with--just an apologist defending the update. It's not like anyone reading your posts isn't going to be able to see through it, so I'll leave it at that. If someone wants an intelligent response, he has to emit intelligence first to show he is worthy of it. Crying about a change that is badly needed isn't emitting intelligence, it's emitting entitled whining. If you don't think this change is needed, then get your head out of your ass and look at the economy. Think about how it works and what pumping massive amounts of ISK into it results in. If you fail to figure out basic economics, then you shouldn't comment on economics in the first place. Construct a logical argument that's not falling apart the moment someone with half a brain dares look at it the wrong way and you get a response in kind. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1549	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:10:16 - [1781] - Quote Analius Glover wrote: Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a **** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. That's why he was kicked from BB. Just ignore that crying girl Just who are you again? Since I have no clue who you are, your information about the reasons why I was "kicked" are nothing but hear-say. Let's just say that 2 days after I left, the people responsible committed a real-life felony and are legally being investigated. If you care about the truth instead of spoon-fed lies, then drop me a mail and I'll educate you. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:11:06 - [1782] - Quote Analius Glover wrote: Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a **** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. That's why he was kicked from BB. Just ignore that crying girl Exactly. The "hide posts" option was created for a reason, lol. I had hoped CCP would reconsider these changes, but they seem intent on them regardless. Too bad, but Goons will survive and thrive :D
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1554	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:16:17 - [1783] - Quote Sam Khanid wrote: Analius Glover wrote: Sam Khanid wrote: Linus Gorp wrote: Smalahove wrote: Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2. http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a **** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters. That's why he was kicked from BB. Just ignore that crying girl Exactly. The "hide posts" option was created for a reason, lol. I had hoped CCP would reconsider these changes, but they seem intent on them regardless. Too bad, but Goons will survive and thrive :D So, I challenge you to use that underdeveloped brain of yours and to no surprise your response is this. Not surprised. Not at all. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Banshee Clarity State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:24:34 - [1784] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently. [/list] We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Looks like I'm going outside this summer. Get bent CCP.
Darkligh 81 RaTaX Home Defense Union 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:31:22 - [1785] - Quote Ok so I see the nerf is going live in the patch notes. but i figured I would post anyway just incase CCP wakes up and sees there is a far simpler solution. The most logical solution I have found is pretty simple and does not need to nerf the carriers, thus wasting a lot of SP and ISK on skill books. Especially for those who did it without injectors. those who used injectors can just as easily do it for the next 'Big Shiny' that becomes the top dog of anomalies. So to my point- Same as jump fatigue. The longer you rat the more of a penalty you incur and then start to suffer a negative penalty to fighter damage and also possibly to resists. get over a certain limit and your carrier becomes useless in combat as you have worm yourself out. and have to rest until you can effectively use your carrier again. This does 2 things. Allows casual players to still enjoy their toy. Clamps down heavily on those utilising carriers to "Milk ISK" thus limiting the increase in money supply "from carriers" we are seeing. My last 0.2 isk worth on the subject. Ohh, I forgot: Thanks CCP for all the replies you gave. Shows your interest in your customers.

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 798	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:39:27 - [1786] - Quote Original Post updated Game Designer \| Team Phenomenon \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 646	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:44:30 - [1787] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated thanks for the update and changes. i hope you guys are ready for a roll back if everything goes to shite
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 302	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:47:07 - [1788] - Quote "We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date." Good luck with that
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:49:02 - [1789] - Quote Darkligh 81 wrote: Ok so I see the nerf is going live in the patch notes. but i figured I would post anyway just incase CCP wakes up and sees there is a far simpler solution. The most logical solution I have found is pretty simple and does not need to nerf the carriers, thus wasting a lot of SP and ISK on skill books. Especially for those who did it without injectors. those who used injectors can just as easily do it for the next 'Big Shiny' that becomes the top dog of anomalies. So to my point- Same as jump fatigue. The longer you rat the more of a penalty you incur and then start to suffer a negative penalty to fighter damage and also possibly to resists. get over a certain limit and your carrier becomes useless in combat as you have worm yourself out. and have to rest until you can effectively use your carrier again. This does 2 things. Allows casual players to still enjoy their toy. Clamps down heavily on those utilising carriers to "Milk ISK" thus limiting the increase in money supply "from carriers" we are seeing. My last 0.2 isk worth on the subject. Ohh, I forgot: Thanks CCP for all the replies you gave. Shows your interest in your customers. If I may expand on that idea a bit. Since the bounty isk comes from CONCORD, let's give them a limited pool of isk to draw bounties from. The total pool being the maximum amount of isk ccp wants in the system per day, week, month, whatever. Divide the total over all players. Each player reaching the bounty cap will get a decreased or no payout (insert balancing here). At the end of the bounty period, untouched bounty pools can be split up from inactive towards active players. CCP can decide what the total pool is, active players are limited in generating isk, casuals (such as me) get to keep enjoying full payouts, people who don't do anything concerning bounties will be unaffected, pvp will be unaffected, missionrunners will be unaffected and it would make sense lore wise for CONCORD to have limited money available. And if you need more isk in the system, just tweak the numbers a bit or raise the total pool.
Banshee Clarity State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:51:37 - [1790] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated Thank you for the clarification. I really appreciate the clarification of "[No Change]" Sunscreen is expensive

Sassura Sassy's Corporation 28	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:53:37 - [1791] - Quote Thank you for updating us. I'd like to ask why is it that reddit users get a decent response from CCP Falcon which contains some additional information than the facts that you shared, whereas those who avoid that cesspool of idiots and use the actual game forums do not get that courtesy?
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 302	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:53:53 - [1792] - Quote "Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties." You should of thought of capital proliferation when your were implementing skill injectors. Oh wait you did, you hired the EA marketing team.
Stunt Anime Masters 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:56:42 - [1793] - Quote This still does not address the core issue of pve being safe and lack of content mechanics.
Antony Ottig Fractal Industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:57:33 - [1794] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated classic scheme. 1. announce a ridiculously big nerf. 2. Everyone cry like a babies and curse the devs. 3. Then DO MAKE that nerf but a less powerful nerf then was first announced. 4. Everyone praise the devs for their greatness. and happy like never before. 5. Nerf successfully deployed like it was indented in the first place.
KIller Wabbit MEME Thoughts 999	Posted - 2017.06.12 16:58:01 - [1795] - Quote Still screwing over PvP for a PvE problem. Totally uncool and content killing.
Minerva Arbosa Astrocomical Warped Intentions 27	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:00:46 - [1796] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-07-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6%) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. Stop needing Citafels.
Resnar Deathnar BLACK SQUADRON. Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:00:54 - [1797] - Quote That's very nice thanks CCP to listen us, even if I still have a bit of concern, why nerfing Super ratting ? Those ship cost a lot, need a big intel to keep it safe, everyone look to kill them, need a very long time to train (T2 fighter/nice shield/armor skill etc to be effective). Those ship are the end game of eve, all my eve life I want to have one, and even If i have one now, i feel like pushing 100mil tick (and it ask a lot of APM) is not enough. If a war explode, you can't use your ratting super if you are hit by the war, as a goon, I can tell you, we rat in super because there is nothing else to do, if you realy want to nerf super ratting/rorq mining, you should look at adding isk sink like a war, the best exemple for that was goons deployement in catch, during this period of time no one had time to rat/mine, super was deploy for the war and rorq was not safe to use (hi 5 min siege). Anyway, I hope you will look further, sorry for my bad english, not native english speaker.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 31	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:01:26 - [1798] - Quote Thead Enco wrote: "Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties." You should of thought of capital proliferation when your were implementing skill injectors. Oh wait you did, you hired the EA marketing team. Indeed and when you look at the actual figures that carriers and supers make ratting, it's not really all that crazy considering the isk and skill requirements. Also, a huge number of the subcap numbers will be people multiboxing and that should be taken into account. Skill injectors and overpowered rorquals mining up a storm and building cheap capitals and supers made this all possible. Perhaps the skill injectors need a nerf too, so that they do not work on actual capital ship skills, just all the prereqs. They continue to help the newer players as intended by slow down the all to easy progression to top tier ships. Or would that hurt the revenue too much?
Thead Enco Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 303	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:01:32 - [1799] - Quote Stunt wrote: This still does not address the core issue of pve being safe and lack of content mechanics. Safe in Delve?
Creeda Vain ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:01:34 - [1800] - Quote nerf nerf nerf nerf always nerf for the old player that look for fun with expensive ship. why would I stay in the game to play only frigate to have fun? If other people want to make more money go farm with super if they don't have balls .... it's not our fault.

Hypp Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:01:40 - [1801] - Quote yay
Nexio Siete Nexal Shipping 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:02:05 - [1802] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Great changes Yeah a WH CSM completely not biased about being about to TheraGirls hit, run and close the WH without being responded to as effectively and cry because of the "blob" response fleet. Of course TheraGirls never mention they are the ones doing the blob in the first place! What a surprise!
Mostlyharmlesss GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 309	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:02:30 - [1803] - Quote The reason is that there is literally no reason to use ISK - People are hoarding it while waiting for the next big war. If you were a good developer you would realize this an instead of doing dumb things like this, you would introduce more reasons to fight actual wars (No, a dumb ESS isn't going to make fights). Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3403	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:02:56 - [1804] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated Quote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6%) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. That's 65.6% of the ISK and only 22.8% of the characters earning bounties. Partial transparency is still opaque censoring. A round of applause for the measured step back, though. Because the rest are outliers compared to those 3. Do you really need the total to be displayed because I can tell you even logi ear bounties so the list of ship class to be posted would be long.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:03:51 - [1805] - Quote Another sudden thought: why are ships spec'd to allow full T2 kit with maxed skills? kind of takes the purpose and variety out of even having tiered systems if you can more or less mount full 2s across the whole fit
Helga Chelien Solar Pride MIDAS 22 1992	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:05:41 - [1806] - Quote You will be able to lower T1 cruiser? They extract as much isk, how much supercarrier. -¥-¦ -+-¦-¦-+ -Ç-¦-ü-ü-é-Ç-¦-+-¦-¦-é-î-ü-Å, -¦-ü-+-+ -¦-¦-ü -¦-é-+--é-+ -+-¦-+-¦-¦-+. -á-¦-ü-ü-é-Ç-+-¦-+-+-ï-+ -à-+-Ç-+-ê-â-Ä -+-¦-ü-é-î -+-¦ -+-Ç-+-¦-â-+-¦-¦-ê-î.
Coelus Kugisa KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:12:37 - [1807] - Quote Quote: 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers So 16.6% of the game is Horde and KarmaFleet multiboxing VNI's. Quote: 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers Do I get to cherry pick this data as 0.0001% of the game is actually 6.2% of the game?
Von Jovhian Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:12:59 - [1808] - Quote I still want to see a video of that DANK 260M A TICK SUPERCARRIER RATTING .
Sir zaviel Silver Guardians DARKNESS. 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:13:54 - [1809] - Quote Thanks for reconsidering the digits! although I agree somewhat that it needed addressing , I disagree the old amount was acceptable, now it doesnt seem so bad!
PenguinBacon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:14:20 - [1810] - Quote I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character.

LifeshifterX 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:14:31 - [1811] - Quote Anyone also noted he quoted 7-12 instead of 6-12?
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 32	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:15:50 - [1812] - Quote Not sure why there is still a hefty nerf to the ship when they plan to also look at making the anoms less profitable for carriers and supers. Also, can anyone tell me how much isk p/h I could make with a handful of smartbombing machs?
Wyld Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:16:14 - [1813] - Quote You remember when you didn't carrier or super rat cause you'd get hot dropped? Man, those were the days before fattygay and never leaving your SOV area cause a pack of Sov Wands show up...
Dirk Stetille Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:16:38 - [1814] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-07-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. This is a far better post, well constructed and giving us a path to see your reasoning. This is what we'd like to see more of - open communication with the the player base. You guys have ****** that up a bit recently, but this is really great, so thank you Larrikin for being receptive to our opinions.
Nexio Siete Nexal Shipping 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:17:30 - [1815] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Justify Justify Justify I ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY COUNTED THE ALPHA CLONES THAT YOU PUT IN OUT IN THESE FIGURES BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE CLEARLY USING SATURATED FIGURES THAT YOU CREATED TO YOUR ENDS WHICH I KNOW CCP WOULD NEVER DO ...............RIGHT?
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 50	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:17:31 - [1816] - Quote Im still not convinced to resub my accounts.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3178	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:19:20 - [1817] - Quote PenguinBacon wrote: Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. CCP Larrikin wrote: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. Let me know when you see the problem. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Rendiir UK Corp Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:20:10 - [1818] - Quote Has anyone at CCP considered the fact that there are Exspensive things on the markets these days and need to save up the isk in order to purchase? Examples: Sotiyo Keep Star Super Capitals With the Future release of moon mining Complexes, People/ Corperations want to save up under the impression that the cost of these things will be extortionate. Or has CCP considered that players have all that they want within the game and from time to time, players will just go out ratting to kill a little bit of time during quiet periods...? i don't think CCP has realy thought about this from all angles.. People who have played for 10 years will have everything and simply sit on ISK... and as time goes on more and more people will be in the same situation... this in turn makes CCP panic because available isk is rising...
Tyger Maul Universalis Imperium The Bastion 11	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:20:25 - [1819] - Quote PenguinBacon wrote: I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. I logged in just to like your comment. Best comment so far.
Reza Najafi SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 34	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:22:25 - [1820] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. First of all please do show us a bottle report or state a fight that happened in which Supercarriers or Carries (after the fighter changes) significantly affected the fight. Secondly ask FCs or CC pilots how effective their fighters are, how they cycle guns, torps, mwds and what not and how much client/server lag they get by doing all those clicks. Do this research first before saying anything about PVP effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. Now to the PVE part: I've been talking for months now that the gap between low -> null sec in terms of PVE is insanely big. So what you do you nerf a ship class and it's damage (fighters) instead of changing the really not enjoyable and nonchallenging PVE mechanics that's totally **** up and the main reason for this changes. I find this really dumb and just a quick fix to something you don't want to spend like a week of thinking. So in your whole post the change that is really needed is stated as last: "We are working on changes to Anomalies ...". This should be the thing you actually SHOULD do, without touching supers or combat carriers. Anyway, I am done with this. Seems like hitting a wall and talking to someone who isn't listening. Thanks Devs for reading my post if you are gonna do it. Also get a ***** communication officer that is actually good at his job to tell you how to work with yourcustomers.

Adare Darmazaf Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:23:54 - [1821] - Quote Fine be like this CCP. We just dock up our carriers and supers and continue ratting in rattlesnakes :) Or How about Rorqual mining... Hmm no. I just go to high sec and run incursions with TVP with an hourly rate of 180/210 million isk exc. the 42.000/49.000 concord LP. Lol :D
Max Striker KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:26:25 - [1822] - Quote Resnar Deathnar wrote: That's very nice thanks CCP to listen us, even if I still have a bit of concern, why nerfing Super ratting ? Those ship cost a lot, need a big intel to keep it safe, everyone look to kill them, need a very long time to train (T2 fighter/nice shield/armor skill etc to be effective). Those ship are the end game of eve, all my eve life I want to have one, and even If i have one now, i feel like pushing 100mil tick (and it ask a lot of APM) is not enough. If a war explode, you can't use your ratting super if you are hit by the war, as a goon, I can tell you, we rat in super because there is nothing else to do, if you realy want to nerf super ratting/rorq mining, you should look at adding isk sink like a war, the best exemple for that was goons deployement in catch, during this period of time no one had time to rat/mine, super was deploy for the war and rorq was not safe to use (hi 5 min siege). Anyway, I hope you will look further, sorry for my bad english, not native english speaker. I totally agree, CCP is not taking in consideration all we have to invest to fly one of those and the risk there is using them as well as all the infra structure we need to keep those beauties as safe as possible. And I am not even talking about war time just regular day by day ratting.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 32	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:26:26 - [1823] - Quote Please could we see figures for null sec ratting when you plan to still nerf the some of the ships used for nullsec ratting. Not all around figures. What about all the people multiboxing sub caps who rake in a lot more isk p/h? Please explain why the ship needs a pve/pvp nerf and a further pve nerf to address pve concerns. Please update the actual eve forums with the same information that you share with reddit readers. Please use the CSM to bounce ideas off before dropping bombshells like this. Please listen to people and address the current game mechanics which have removed content and made the game stagnant. Please don't just do a minor backpedal and carry on with whatever your next pans are. Please address the game issues that players are facing.
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 955	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:26:38 - [1824] - Quote What percentage of characters earning bounties were living in HS exclusively. For the purposes of this discussion, the only relevant numbers are characters earning bounties in nullsec. Also, why those specific 5 days, why not use the last year? Fluffy Bunny Pic!
GinBar BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel 17	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:29:12 - [1825] - Quote Can CCP deduce some facts about injectors and supercaps and rorqs. I d like to know which of them are injected and which are trained with natural progression aka skilling. As ppl said many times in this thread, this particular nerf is not THE problem, its just a problem among gazillion ones which will surface. THE problem are skill injectors, the way maxing stuff in eve is just seconds away. EVE players are smart ones, they will use every frigging chance to beat other guy, even other guy is CCP guy. Remove skill injectors or rework 'em
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3404	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:29:54 - [1826] - Quote Rhivre wrote: What percentage of characters earning bounties were living in HS exclusively. For the purposes of this discussion, the only relevant numbers are characters earning bounties in nullsec. Also, why those specific 5 days, why not use the last year? Because the issue became more visible once everyone and their dog got a carrier/super to rat with? It's an exaggeration but you should get the idea.
Jen Makanen Roving Guns Inc. Mercenary Coalition 12	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:30:27 - [1827] - Quote Re: The Update Monday 12th June. So, I'm going to be a cynic. Chances are this "new" iteration of their nerf was the inital intention, but it was a bold PR move to make people respect the devs more. I think it back fired personally. I will say I'm thankful that some data has actually been put forward regarding this, granted I stick to my previous concerns and ask "how are carriers overpowered in PvP?". Quite honestly, if you can find me a graph showing carriers being overpowered (when they can't hit the broadside of a barn without buckets of tracking) I'll let you have it. This entire round of changes are just weird. You could've left them alone and JUST implemented the NPC aggro increase on the fighters, causing people to use them less or sink more ISK into replacing fighters they lose due to new mechanics, which ultimately is what is needed. Especially when you consider that T2 fighters are 10-15m a pop, losing a squadron every site of 2 would essentially nullify one "tick" in three, thus making people less inclined to rat in a carrier OR alternatively forcing them to be more active with controlling them, leading to lower bounty ticks as more management is done pulling them away and repositioning them. I'm not going to pretend this cut back on the initial nerf pleases me at all, but I would personally advise you learn to listen to your playerbase a bit more, yes there is bias, but you must consider their opinions and logically come back with your own arguments, rather than the method used by CCP Quant and CCP Falcon by disregarding the concerns of players as "1% of the 1%" and "edgy memelord". Bad for PR, bad for respect and quite frankly, real **** social awareness.
Ender Ambrye Risk Breakers Snuffed Out 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:30:59 - [1828] - Quote Thanks Devs, thats more like it, not necessarily because of changes made to your numbers...but because you have provided us with a bit of evidence, you showed me (us) the logic behind it and that goes a LONG way to helping me understand why this massive long skill queue I have invested RL time and money in is being manipulated, thank you. Now if we could have these a little earlier, that would be ace...no repeats for the T3s, I plead, that would be a catastrophic event. I still believe that this is an inelegant solution to a subtle problem, and buggers unrelated mechanics (like PVP), which is unfortunate, as we all know the new parameters will be min - maxed by next patch anyway, while unique gameplay dies. Please remember it has to be fun, in particular for your more invested customers - I understand the need to balance toward retention and thus subscription of alphas, but it would be foolish to do it at the expense of the investment pool that got you to that point in the first place.
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale 1555	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:31:44 - [1829] - Quote Nexio Siete wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Justify Justify Justify I ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY COUNTED THE ALPHA CLONES THAT YOU PUT IN OUT IN THESE FIGURES? BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE CLEARLY USING SATURATED FIGURES THAT YOU CREATED TO YOUR ENDS WHICH I KNOW CCP WOULD NEVER DO ...............RIGHT? If they haven't (and I don't see any logical reason why they should..), then doing that would only result in the numbers favoring carriers and supers even more than they already do, justifying the nerfs harder than the numbers with alpha accounts would. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Illyria Mimikry Literally The Worst Community 4	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:31:58 - [1830] - Quote When will you understand that the problem is not carrier and super are too effective in PVE but people are SAFE to do it, so they can do it TENTH of hours in a raw without beeing disturbed. It's curently more dangerous to run incursion in HS or to do lvl 4 mission in a slightly blingy ship than ratring in carrier/super in delve (same **** for every alliance farm system). This is not how eve is supposed to work, please remember the risk vs reward concept. Make it risky, you'll see a huge drop in both amount of player farming in carrier and super and efficiency as they'll have to put their ship in safe position more often. Force people to move out of a blue-crowded crazy defense fleet to seek for isk / anomaly. Force people to spread across New Eden to avoid having 80% of nullsec empty. Maybe create a new mobule, maybe for the HIC, that cyno-jam the ship it's applied to.

Adare Darmazaf Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:32:18 - [1831] - Quote Sassura wrote: Not sure why there is still a hefty nerf to the ship when they plan to also look at making the anoms less profitable for carriers and supers. Also, can anyone tell me how much isk p/h I could make with a handful of smartbombing machs? With 4 bombing machs and 1 to kill escapees, you run havens in 3 per minute. When you set up for higher warp speeds with the mach lets say from site to sit it is 4, meaning you can run 15 sites per hour. times what? 25 million isk per site? 325 million an hour (not counting escalations, faction spawns, dread spawns, loot and such, pure bounties)
Creecher Virpio Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:32:22 - [1832] - Quote HEY GUYS WE LISTENED! WE ARE STILL NERFING, JUST A LITTLE LESS! thanks for not listening to a *** word anyone said.
grigair SUB Inc. 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:33:22 - [1833] - Quote I rarely ever post about anything on this game. I have been back for 3 months now considering being around on and off since 06 I disagree with the direction ccp has went. People that have played for years or dumped a whole bunch of money into ccp's wallet shouldn't be punished to take isk out of the game. What the real problem is all the big alliances have become to comfortable with each other and let everyone have their own space. Their is nothing making them want to fight each other for space. A better idea would be rotate sections of nullsec that pays better than others. Force the big alliance to fight for space to earn more profits. Take out modules completely everyone on a even playing field and add bonuses certain nullsec space areas for a random amount of time and make people fight for that space. Get eve flowing again get those caps and titans into full scale warfare again insted of whats going on now where they are just used to blap someone jumping on a mining barge bait.
Balta Katei Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:34:34 - [1834] - Quote Idea: Have dynamic "difficulty" setting periodically make regional adjustments to bounty payouts. See Bitcoin difficulty adjustments. The more ratting takes place in a region the lower bounties get. The less ratting takes place in a region, the higher bounties build up.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16147	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:35:51 - [1835] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make? I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 33	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:36:41 - [1836] - Quote Adare Darmazaf wrote: Sassura wrote: Not sure why there is still a hefty nerf to the ship when they plan to also look at making the anoms less profitable for carriers and supers. Also, can anyone tell me how much isk p/h I could make with a handful of smartbombing machs? With 4 bombing machs and 1 to kill escapees, you run havens in 3 per minute. When you set up for higher warp speeds with the mach lets say from site to sit it is 4, meaning you can run 15 sites per hour. times what? 25 million isk per site? 325 million an hour (not counting escalations, faction spawns, dread spawns, loot and such, pure bounties) Thank you.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3404	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:37:22 - [1837] - Quote grigair wrote: I rarely ever post about anything on this game. I have been back for 3 months now considering being around on and off since 06 I disagree with the direction ccp has went. People that have played for years or dumped a whole bunch of money into ccp's wallet shouldn't be punished to take isk out of the game. What the real problem is all the big alliances have become to comfortable with each other and let everyone have their own space. Their is nothing making them want to fight each other for space. A better idea would be rotate sections of nullsec that pays better than others. Force the big alliance to fight for space to earn more profits. Take out modules completely everyone on a even playing field and add bonuses certain nullsec space areas for a random amount of time and make people fight for that space. Get eve flowing again get those caps and titans into full scale warfare again insted of whats going on now where they are just used to blap someone jumping on a mining barge bait. Do you have any idea how large the temporary bonus would have to be for large alliance to deem it worthy to throw trillions of ISK in war material and infrastructure at it?
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 33	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:37:44 - [1838] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make? I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO. It does need to be fixed. There are better ways though, ones which really address the problems.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3404	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:39:03 - [1839] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make? I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO. Depends what the supposed change to the anomaly themselves are supposed to be but my hopes aren't all that high. If they reduce rat sig size for example, we are stuck with everything getting nerfed since guns and drones also use target sig for hit calculation.
Luthien Niell 60 Squadron Mordus Angels 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:39:12 - [1840] - Quote Why are you CCP so scared to do radical things? You dont have balls? Dont ask players for their opinion. Just do what you want. Just do it. Be a man once more!

grigair SUB Inc. 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:39:36 - [1841] - Quote Yes I do and it would be worth it. The goal is to remove isk from game thats is a solid way to do so. Nothing drains isk out of eve like Titans, Super Carriers,Carriers dying.
HighRiser Varion Galactic 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:39:41 - [1842] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-07-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. Hey CCP Larrikin! Just wanted to say that it is nice that when people do genuinely believe that the devs are mistaken, they will listen somewhat to our calls for a lighter touch. Though if I can put in my two cents... Pvp: To my understanding, (super)carrier's ability to frag small ships is the problem. So instead of nerfing all damage to all things, why not modify the tracking/weapon signature size/explosion velocity/explosion radius of fighter weapons? Make it so that hitting small ships like dictores or frigates sees significant damage nerfs? This would maintain the damage balance of carrier v BS or other caps while the balancing against smaller ships. PVE: -Option 1: Do what you did above. Now carriers and supers will have very hard times hiring the frigates in spawns. Slow killls = less payout per tick. -Option 2: Add a anti-fighter rat to sites or just have current rats shoot fighters more. Profitable, but still not without fighter losses. Or some sort of EWAR against fighters by npc frigates? Ecm/tracking disrupt? There are many ways you can go with this to not adversely affecting the current carrier meta against hostile fleets. If CCP ever does read these threads, it would be nice to see more finesse and less heavy handed changes.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16147	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:40:29 - [1843] - Quote PenguinBacon wrote: I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. You do know Larrikin meanted "characters earning bounties", where as when Quant was talking about incursions he was talking about their percentage of the general population. You'd need to know how many people were earning bounties (so you'd know what percentage of characters were involved in bounty generating activity) yo compare the two. No one knows how unbalanced high sec incursions are more than me, but your attempt and analyses is off.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3179	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:41:34 - [1844] - Quote grigair wrote: Yes I do and it would be worth it. The goal is to remove isk from game thats is a solid way to do so. Nothing drains isk out of eve like Titans, Super Carriers,Carriers dying. No, that moves ISK from one player to another, and removes minerals from the game. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sophos Mileghere TunDraGon Shadow Cartel 34	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:46:21 - [1845] - Quote This is ********. Because ISK faucet is created using capital ships to PVE, the solution is to broad brush nerf capitals... I just do not even begin to understand the logic in this. Reduce frequency of PVE in null, buff null NPC's, make them fighter hungry to off put capital ratting - do something to nerf the ratting but not do not wreck the PVP game experience. You are fixing symptoms, not root causes. You must think of the end to end systemic cause and effect. If you cannot hand on heart say you have that view then dont do the change
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3180	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:46:49 - [1846] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make? I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO. It does need to be fixed. There are better ways though, ones which really address the problems. The problem is fighter squadrons. This problem did not exist the day before CCP patched in Fighter Squadrons. that shouldn't be changing anomalies when they know what the problem is. CCP did that before (with tracking titans and forsaken hubs, they added frigs to forsaken hubs, slowing down everyone, not just the titan ratters) and that shouldn't ever do that again. No, the full definition of the problem is, "Fighter squadrons in PvE" or, even more specifically, "Fighter squadrons in null ratting". Saying, "The problem is fighter squadrons," is a misstatement, as fighter squadrons have many other uses that aren't problematic. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mrs Guderian Patriot Security Services Solyaris Chtonium 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:46:53 - [1847] - Quote You kicked capital pilots out of WHs when you crushed C5 capital escalations. Those were actually fun because they were a group effort. Two or three capital players and all the subcap pilots could play together in blingy ships, share the ISK reward, and deal with the danger of a new sig opening while the dreads were in siege and maybe a carrier in triage. Now we are stuck in null sec, where ISK farming is a solo enterprise - no human interactions required. Carrier ratting alone is dull, annoying WORK. It is not gameplay. If the rats start attacking (and killing) my fighters more often, it will take longer and be more WORK. Speaking as a former wormholer, the whole tick mechanism sucks. It's not just me. The proof is in who isn't logging on and why. My former-WH corpies don't bother to log on except to update their PI or to say hello for five minutes before going to bed. They'd rather watch TV. I don't blame them. While I could easily PLEX my accounts, I never do. I don't mind paying for a service. But I have to say it's really getting tiresome. This newest nerf to fighters/increase in game time spent ratting really sucks.
Zockhandra Flames Of Chaos 36	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:47:12 - [1848] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved First off, i'm really sorry that you had to put up with all the cry babies moaning about their isk printers making less money. Kudos to a job well done on the initial changes and the current ones (this is why you my fav CCPBRO). Though to be honest, this relates all the way back to Incarna here..... The fighter change as a whole was too big too quick. Now that it's had time to breed with the Rorq mess, it has created one hell of a messy situation to deal with. So is it any wonder than people are complaining over changes that dumb-down their ability to pump out previously unheard of levels of profit? I understand that these changes are a step in the correct direction, and that fighters still require alot of attention in order to bring them in line. But i think that in order to address this issue as a whole, you guys would be better off acknowledging the current state of balance and power build up (which currently has no release due to foz sov). This trend is going to continue to build with ever increasing levels of isk and supers, accumulating in isolated areas of space. Eventually resulting in a content less saturation of super-carrier fleets. The issue with this eventuality, is that large super capital fleets like this are quite honestly, un-attractive to fight. This is mainly due to the length of time it takes to kill them, but also due to the risk averse nature of players. No single change to fighters can rectify this situation, and a public discussion (o7 show) asking for player thoughts and acknowledging a tipped balance of power is highly recommended in order to sort this, without causing mass tears (upset) across the cluster. Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Ian Hestia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:47:12 - [1849] - Quote Jen Makanen wrote: Re: The Update Monday 12th June. I'm not going to pretend this cut back on the initial nerf pleases me at all, but I would personally advise you learn to listen to your playerbase a bit more, yes there is bias, but you must consider their opinions and logically come back with your own arguments, rather than the method used by CCP Quant and CCP Falcon by disregarding the concerns of players as "1% of the 1%" and "edgy memelord". Bad for PR, bad for respect and quite frankly, real **** social awareness. CCP Quant and CCP Falcon these two just enraged the community with their carelessness about the game and subscripted players.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16147	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:48:59 - [1850] - Quote Wrong place, sry.

O2 jayjay Usque Ad Mortem Solyaris Chtonium 63	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:49:13 - [1851] - Quote Good call devs. You do bring a good argument to the table. How about putting a spawn timer on Heavens? 20 mins sounds about right. that way nothing gets nerfed and the grind slows down. Also makes players move around and want to expand their space.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6628	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:50:38 - [1852] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: UPDATE 2017-07-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. When 6ish % of people engaged in bounty generating activity account for almost HALF of all bounties injecting isk into EVE's economy, it's time for the nerf hammer to fall. Of course CCP caved and in the same post announced that they were pulling back on some of the nerfing. That's a mistake, it's just going to prolong the issue to the point where more drastic nerfing is going to be needed later. You rip a bandaid off, trying to peel it slowly and nicely just makes it worse. :smug: "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 33	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:50:51 - [1853] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make? I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO. It does need to be fixed. There are better ways though, ones which really address the problems. The problem is fighter squadrons. This problem did not exist the day before CCP patched in Fighter Squadrons. that shouldn't be changing anomalies when they know what the problem is. CCP did that before (with tracking titans and forsaken hubs, they added frigs to forsaken hubs, slowing down everyone, not just the titan ratters) and that shouldn't ever do that again. I wish that it were that simple, but I don't believe it is. Fighters need work, a 3 day old character shouldn't be able to render a carrier useless. I'm not arguing there. A simple damage reduction simply doesn't fix the issues at hand. Do you think so many people would be out there ratting in carrier and supers, making those bounty numbers so high if it wasn't for things like skill injectors, lack of force projection creating much safer space than intended and many other things? Lets not forget about how cheap and easy they are to get hold of now. The bigger picture makes me think that nerfing fighter damage wouldn't be the fix that the game needs.
Kortes Ellecon INSePaRaBLeS Wings Wanderers 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:54:38 - [1854] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. 40% nerf for heavy fighters ??? ...really ?? ok last days for me and for my corps never will return again to this game if u want to kill your game do it ccp! bye ! good reason to sell accounts ty .
grigair SUB Inc. 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:54:42 - [1855] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: grigair wrote: Yes I do and it would be worth it. The goal is to remove isk from game thats is a solid way to do so. Nothing drains isk out of eve like Titans, Super Carriers,Carriers dying. No, that moves ISK from one player to another, and removes minerals from the game. Minerals need to leave the game. The carrier pilots want to not get their stuff nerfed well the backbone of this whole game is ore. Isk needs to change hands and if that means some of the trillions of isk that some of these people have needs to be redistributed to the poorer people of this game then so be it. CCP is implementing these changes to hurt the big guy but in the end its hurting any new players joining. If a new person cantget into this game this many years in than the game has become stagnant. CCPisnt killing their game the old players are because they have become to comfortable sitting on the isk and not actually trying to large scale fight anymore. The pvp in this game just isnt what it was 2-3 years ago and nowhere what it was when bob was around.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6628	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:56:00 - [1856] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here. The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply. A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom... You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead... You don't see the inherent contradiction in your post there do you? A carrier was good for a person who can't afford to pay for his sub, but he'll expand his accounts by 3 or 4...and find the money somewhere? Never mind that using VNIs are less efficient meaning he'll have to rate even longer for each of these accounts to PLEX them. Yes, but VNI-ratting is sustainable over longer periods to the point, as demonstrated, of breaking the cost margin. So let me get this straight....the guy who is having issues paying his sub is going to spend more time ratting (you can't totally AFK rat in a VNI no matter how much you guys lie about it) AND he is going to have more accounts. Maybe he should...oh I don't know....go get a better job or something instead of spending more time in his mom's basement. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
FeistyOne 13. Enigma Project 15	Posted - 2017.06.12 17:58:13 - [1857] - Quote You should never have introduced Skill Injectors to the game Too many Rorqual/Carrier/Super alts in the game now. But Greed is good right?
Marcel Garsk 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:00:52 - [1858] - Quote Guys! What carrier ticks do you foresee tomorrow?
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:01:14 - [1859] - Quote What about a new kind of support fighter by ORE? One for tractoring, one for salvaging. Gives carriers and supers a reason to stay in site, less bounty generated. Less isk in the system. More minerals via refining scrap, minerals go down in value, stuff is affordable on a item per isk basis. Inflation is a bit countered. Just a random idea, just remembered that mtus exist, but I'd rather just clean up after myself over warping back and forth.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 33	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:02:59 - [1860] - Quote Teckos Pech So let me get this straight....the guy who is having issues paying his sub is going to spend more time ratting (you can't totally AFK rat in a VNI no matter how much you guys lie about it) AND he is going to have more accounts. Maybe he should...oh I don't know....go get a better job or something instead of spending more time in his mom's basement. [:roll: wrote: When you have to resort to comments about peoples real life jobs and 'moms basement' comments it seems that you are out of reasonable and factual comments. Your posts read more like reddit posts. There are people whose opinions I do not necessarily agree with that I enjoy interacting with, ingame and on the forums. Their posts give me fresh insight into other perspectives and widen my thinking. It's a pleasure to banter with them. They in turn, for the most part. can express themselves without falling back to insults. It's a shame that you Sir, are not one of those people. It would give your posts more credibility.

Nevase Prometeus Every Man for Himself Fidelas Constans 16	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:03:06 - [1861] - Quote Supercarrier is like endgame contents . It should be a reward for player who spend most of time and effort to that level . Nerf nedgame reward like this usually make unhappy for players who spend a lot ot time and efforts to go this far . Player who fly supercarrier most are veteran players who stay with EVE for a long time . Nerf their ship it look like punishments .They should not be thread like this. My though are not punish the players but strengten to rats to make more difficult (espicially for carrier and super carrier) by all rats will target fighters first , all of them. After no fighters left so it should be Carrier or Suuper carrier to be next target. I Hope this sould be better.
GothicNightmare Amazing Super Slackers Circle-Of-Two 13	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:03:55 - [1862] - Quote [quote=grigair]I Their is nothing making them want to fight each other for space. A better idea would be rotate sections of nullsec that pays better than others. Force the big alliance to fight for space to earn more profits. I agree completely, after fozzie sov took over there was no need to ever use the carriers and supers to push people's faces in, now all you need is a couple ceptors to attack sov They just keep making it so certain ships are more and more useless or less effective for things, need to bring back incentives and reasons to fly the ships they have.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16147	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:05:03 - [1863] - Quote Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Sassura wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Original Post updated You just explained that almost half the bounties in null sec are generated by only 6% of all ratting characters then you cut down on the balance pass you were about to make? I think that's just prolonging the inevitable. You're going to have to fix this and it would have been better to do most of it up front IMO. It does need to be fixed. There are better ways though, ones which really address the problems. The problem is fighter squadrons. This problem did not exist the day before CCP patched in Fighter Squadrons. that shouldn't be changing anomalies when they know what the problem is. CCP did that before (with tracking titans and forsaken hubs, they added frigs to forsaken hubs, slowing down everyone, not just the titan ratters) and that shouldn't ever do that again. I wish that it were that simple, but I don't believe it is. Fighters need work, a 3 day old character shouldn't be able to render a carrier useless. I'm not arguing there. A simple damage reduction simply doesn't fix the issues at hand. Do you think so many people would be out there ratting in carrier and supers, making those bounty numbers so high if it wasn't for things like skill injectors, lack of force projection creating much safer space than intended and many other things? Lets not forget about how cheap and easy they are to get hold of now. The bigger picture makes me think that nerfing fighter damage wouldn't be the fix that the game needs. I'm sure those ancillary issue matter, there were such issues with tracking titans too (no skill injectors of course, that would have been madness). But EVE is an interconnected thing. CCP seems to understand that the best move is the direct one instead of trying to fix 40 things at once. Nom, fighters should not be so easy to jam, but that another issue for another day, the issue here is the money supply and a dps nerf will affect that no matter whatever else happens. Trying to fix all those things might screw up other things (no offence to CCP, but that don't have a good track record there). Nerfing dps affects the tiny sliver of EVE online players that fly capitals, it's better to negatively affect a few than it is to do that to potentially many many more people.
Nasar Vyron S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 240	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:06:17 - [1864] - Quote Less effective for carriers/supers simply translates to more frigates. Which I'm fine with, slows down the rate or which sites are cleared which was the whole goal of these changes to begin with.
Marcel Garsk 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:11:42 - [1865] - Quote You blame CCP for introduction of skill injectors. Without them there wouldn't be so many capital pilots. But now CCP nerfs skill injectors indirectly because 'injected' carrier pilots will do less damage. Normally trained pilots too but they are simply victims of power creep and present game industry realities (read micro-transactions). Maybe CCP did not considered enough long term consequences of skill injectors for EVE economy but take into account CCP thinks about their economy first!
Hogeron Amelan Marquie-X. Triumvirate. 15	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:12:18 - [1866] - Quote you guys from CCP have to learn how to read graphs... When you average the increase in ISK since the citadel upgrade, aka since carriers and supers can generate ISK the way they do now (May 2016 - June 2017), roughtly estimated 1085T-960T=125 T ISK in 13 months what equals 9,6T or lets say rougly 10T ISK/month since May 2016. When you compare the months before, (Oct 2014- Apr. 2016) thats about 790-600T = 190T in 17 months, what equals about 11,2T per month so thats over 10% more than we have now. So in which mathematical universe you are living to say that 11,2 is less than 10 that the actual income situation is not tolerable when there was even more income generated per month before the carrier change? Of cause when you see the smooth lines before the citadel patch and the edgy lines after it, you can see that people are struggeling with a constant method for income, meaning that the game content is rapidly shifting between making Isk and loosing it. Would you please add a 30-day-playtime cost development graph to that one please? Maybe then you will find out why people are up to increase their income in short periods of time and you may think about it how to introduce game mechanics for a more stable economy. Instead of fine-tuning with a precision tool you are ripping of vavles and soldering rips in the pipes of the material flow...
Nick Bison Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Circle-Of-Two 331	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:13:17 - [1867] - Quote a lot of screaming and hollering because the 6.4% that carrier/super rat wont keep getting 43% of all ISK rewards. Okay, I got that out ... sorry for any offense. Overall, I was kind of hoping that CCP could have instituted some mechanic that prevented carrier/supers from entering PvE anoms but, that would make dealing with dread/titan spawns very interesting. Guess we'll all have to see how this plays out. Nothing clever at this time.
Sylvia Kildare Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:14:17 - [1868] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: All PVE rewards were balanced against player and ship power in the ~2010 era. Player ships have been 'rebalanced' multiple times since then. Almost all of these changes have been significant power increases. Level 5 missions and 10/10 sites used to be nontrivial fleet sites, now they are readily soloed. The key to addressing this balance issue is to increase the combat capabilities of NPCs in line with the increases player ship power has experienced. I'm pretty sure that's where they're headed with the new NPC AI eventually. First, the mining response fleets, then the Sotiyo defense fleet, now, the new Drone event with the new AI. Eventually, all belts, all anoms, all combat sigs, all sleepers, drifters, incursion rats, L1+2+3+4+5 rats... all of it. Could be using some variant of the new AI to increase challenge and to reduce the identical nature of a lot of PVE content, to keep it a bit more randomized.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 34	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:15:57 - [1869] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I'm sure those ancillary issue matter, there were such issues with tracking titans too (no skill injectors of course, that would have been madness). But EVE is an interconnected thing. CCP seems to understand that the best move is the direct one instead of trying to fix 40 things at once. Nom, fighters should not be so easy to jam, but that another issue for another day, the issue here is the money supply and a dps nerf will affect that no matter whatever else happens. Trying to fix all those things might screw up other things (no offence to CCP, but that don't have a good track record there). Nerfing dps affects the tiny sliver of EVE online players that fly capitals, it's better to negatively affect a few than it is to do that to potentially many many more people. You are right that fixing all the issues is far more than a one patch fix and nerfing fighters is an easier way to get a fix into the game in a timely manner without implementing more issues. However the nerf was extremely heavy handed and frustrated people. The method of throwing it into another nerf with 4 days notice was also a poor decision. I'd like fighters as a whole to be addressed, because it is needed. It's a shame that new features are not tested more ( didn't CCP think the max skilled 450 mil p/h rorqual was not that balanced) and introduced more gently. No one ever got upset about gentle buffs to rework things.
Haidere Evolution Northern Coalition. 18	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:19:14 - [1870] - Quote Thank you for taking the time to reconsider the changes. One thing you may want to look at, a large chunk of bounties was earned by T1 cruisers, perhaps check to see what percentage of those were single players, and which were multi-boxers.

Sylvia Kildare Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:19:30 - [1871] - Quote Kortes Ellecon wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change 40% nerf for heavy fighters ??? ...really ?? ok last days for me and for my corps never will return again to this game if u want to kill your game do it ccp! bye ! good reason to sell accounts ty . Where are you reading a 40% nerf for heavy fighters? I'm ready 0%, 20%, and 0% change to three types of heavy fighters (before the adjustment, it was 10%, 30%, and 0% change). Are you adding the old and new percentages together or something? I still don't see a 40% in there... unless you added the 10% and 30% and ignored the new 20%, I guess.
Sylvia Kildare Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:21:14 - [1872] - Quote Hetwiyha wrote: Oh...wait.... Carriers and Supers with drones are to easy for Krabbing, lets change to fighters and let them multitask, that will fix income... No "big" wars, all are krabbing, more isk is generated, lets change damage for Carriers/Supers.... All are krabbing then more, because still no big wars and less income then before, CCP, whats next? Perhaps its just because nothing big is going on and all have time for do this instead of having fights over SOV because of Foz.... :P Krabbing is just storing up a warchest to prepare for the next big war. Patience.
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 47	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:24:16 - [1873] - Quote PenguinBacon wrote: I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. THAT ^ ^ ^ It begs the question...how true are those numbers? Why didnt we get a nice graph like the ones in the report? Why wasnt a bounty income per ship type graph included in the monthly report (didnt even need to include all 200 ships...just cruiser/battleships/capitals/supercapitals)? And most important of all...why weren't these numbers given in the original post? I would not have considered this option, before this whole scandal, but what if after taking a dive in subscriptions, CCP decided to put out some non-rounded up numbers (for authenticity, ofc) that are completely made up to support their claims and still go on with this change? Is this so far-fetched when CCP_Quant messed up and later admited to cherry-picking info -- implying the logical conclusion that CCP is not above using underhanded methods to manipulate opinions? Partially going back on the nerf does not make it less of a poorly designed and lazy attempt at fixing one of the many recent issues with your game. And now, because of shifting the nerf numbers in an attempt to please the unsubscribing players, we know what actually gets CCP's attention. It is not a moment for compromise and I urge other players who have accepted this lesser nerf to not reactivate their subscripions untill CCP starts putting >proper thought< into EvE again and comes up with non-blanket solutions.
Jeison Frenzy Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:25:41 - [1874] - Quote Still overly harsh for tank Carriers when it is DMG bonused carriers used for ratting that are the problem.
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:26:10 - [1875] - Quote Fix the faucet or the drain. Those are the only options. Hitting the person playing with the broken faucet will less nowhere.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16148	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:27:03 - [1876] - Quote C0ATL wrote: PenguinBacon wrote: I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. THAT ^ ^ ^ It begs the question...how true are those numbers? Why didnt we get a nice graph like the ones in the report? Why wasnt a bounty income per ship type graph included in the monthly report (didnt even need to include all 200 ships...just cruiser/battleships/capitals/supercapitals)? And most important of all...why weren't these numbers given in the original post? Because it's CCP and they never anticipate the about of nerd rage that's about to come at them...
Sam Khanid Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:27:49 - [1877] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. A more realistic and moderate approach, bravo for adjusting course midstream.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3181	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:27:53 - [1878] - Quote C0ATL wrote: PenguinBacon wrote: I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. THAT ^ ^ ^ It begs the question...how true are those numbers? The idiot post you're THAT^^^ing compares 5 days of ratting income to a month of incursion income. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
hezie99 OZONED The-Culture 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:27:59 - [1879] - Quote your data is **** and awful...... actually play the game yoooo!
May'n Nome H A V O C Brothers of Tangra 35	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:30:44 - [1880] - Quote Jeison Frenzy wrote: Still overly harsh for tank Carriers when it is DMG bonused carriers used for ratting that are the problem. I can agree but I also think something has to be done. Which it seems they have people looking at it based on this in the notes (Bolded for emphasis.) : Quote: What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. So they are looking at changing something about anomalies but also keep in mind much of the code is old and will probably take some work to get around. (This statement I am making is based on something I overheard in comms about why WH's are the way they are and why it takes so long to get around the code.) *"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."*

Syrias Bizniz The Scope Gallente Federation 559	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:30:48 - [1881] - Quote Even the updated changes don't make much sense at all. In the short term, yes, this will help achieve what you're trying to, but it won't be the only change necessary to do so. You won't magically reduce the ISK Faucets in the game to end up with a, say, 10% inflation rate. Stop the bandaid fixes. They swallow dev-time, even though one could argue that it took merely 15 minutes and a lunch-break-talk to do this one - both work-wise and research/planning-wise. Adress the real issues there are: Not enough ISK sinks / too big and needless ISK faucets. You can remove 2.7 trillion ISK of monthly ISK faucet by simply removing insurance - and maybe even leaving it in place for Highsec people that are not in a war. I mean, which insurance company pays you for the loss of your ship that you willingly flew into an all-out territorial war in CONCORD unsanctioned territory? What insurance company pays you for losing your ship somewhere in a wormhole far off any civilisation? What insurance company pays you for insuring a ship, undocking it, and selfdestructing it? Why not immediately focus on reworking Anomalies, give a huge headsup for the players that they know you're working on it, asking for feedback (and actually listening to it, ffs) and create an anomaly system that doesn't have such a drastic efficiency-endgame? Why not come up with reasonable changes to bring Supercarriers into PvP and make them actually meaningful? This isn't easy, and it shouldn't be. You should be putting your manpower into this to make this game enjoyable instead of throwing halfhearted fixes around for stuff that is abused because you designed these things half hearted in the very beginning.
Lives In Jita State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:31:21 - [1882] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. GRR THE 1% So your data is absolute garbage. I guess this is a continuation of last's week inaccurate numbers from CCP Quant on reddit? To start, per character is a really, really poor measuring stick in a game where even a single account has three characters. If a person has 8 accounts and one character in a ratting carrier, are the 23 other characters now the bottom 96%? That's a laughably poor metric if that's what you're doing. Also, are you only comparing characters who rat? If so, do you consider me ratting when I'm on a fleet and someone shoots a rat on a gate and I get my 2,000 ISK bounty? I would assume so. Next, you have provided literally zero comparison for us, which actually makes the information relatively useless. How much has the percentage of bounties generated by (super)carriers changed over time? I'd venture a guess the income inequality has always existed where a small percentage of players generate a large percentage of bounties. I also fail to see how income inequality is neccessarily bad. EVE is never going to have any kind of income "equality" anyway. The player who spends 10 hours a month playing is--for good reason--at an economic disadvantage over the character who spends 80 hours a month playing cookie clicker in space. The real data should be measured on a per human player, per hour income generation basis, with historical trends for comparison and removing outliers (e.g. people who shoot gate rats). Of course, your historical trends are completely useless since skill injectors were implemented. Now you have two week old characters carrier ratting because they know they can calculate the ROI and have a pretty accurate measure of a break-even point. Since those players are going to most likely be spending a significant sum of "real world" money to buy PLEX for injectors, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they're particularly upset when their "investment" is nerfed. Why would you bother ratting in a suboptimal setup when you can pay to min/max immediately? That seems to be the piece of the puzzle CCP is missing. You're only going to end up nerfing everything that's the "flavor of the month" until you fix the issue of skill injectors. Those nerfs are only going to alienate the player base further and drive people to other games.
Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 220	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:35:15 - [1883] - Quote The stupid morons update the OP to reflect some kind of change in thinking. And it's still as completely ******** as it ever was. I don't give a flying rats ass if the ISK made in anoms by carriers are 1000X what you say they are. DON'T ADJUST PVP BALANCE FOR AN ECONOMIC PROBLEM. CCP, glue this to your foreheads in a sticky-note: RULE TO FOLLOW IF YOU ARE A MORON 1) Don't adjust PvP balance if you have a concern over the economy. Someone send me a PM offline if and when CCP hires a new balance team with an average IQ above 70.
Marcel Garsk 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:42:25 - [1884] - Quote What big? -50% damage? Oh, ****...
Laenatus ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 11	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:43:12 - [1885] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] -á[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, ... This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. . You speak of confidence. I see ignorance. Thanks for reducing the nerf, I GUESS.
WitcherW 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:44:27 - [1886] - Quote I dont have carrier and still i dont like this nerfs...
GothicNightmare Amazing Super Slackers Circle-Of-Two 13	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:44:45 - [1887] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: [quote=baltec1] What they could do is make this change as a temporary fix and then move to make anoms unfarmable for supers by adding dreadnoughts that don't have a bounty that spawn if a capital is on grid. They then unerf carriers and supers. I actually really like this idea, and make them tanky so they don't die in 1 shot like current npc dreads can be, and have them slowly spawn in 1 after another until a carrier or super can't sustain the dps, if you can kill them off, ok salvage, if not, they warp off before you come back
Foxy Bushy Real Life Outpost Solyaris Chtonium 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:45:48 - [1888] - Quote Thanks for proving the 1% of 1% that they are right. Cya space cowboiz o7
Q Sertorius The Graduates The Initiative. 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:52:23 - [1889] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. Fabulous post. Thank you, CCP.
Jed Airtech Australian Belt Strippers Apocalypse Now. 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:57:56 - [1890] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy Where is the data on that? Prove it? Why?

Marcel Garsk 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:58:38 - [1891] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. I think the real answer is this: "We do not want to hurt AFK-ing multiboxers...because multibox = multi account."
Binadas V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 19	Posted - 2017.06.12 18:59:43 - [1892] - Quote Thanks CCP for reconsidering a more moderate approach and not just doubling down on a flawed idea.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:01:17 - [1893] - Quote grigair wrote: I rarely ever post about anything on this game. I have been back for 3 months now considering being around on and off since 06 I disagree with the direction ccp has went. People that have played for years or dumped a whole bunch of money into ccp's wallet shouldn't be punished to take isk out of the game. What the real problem is all the big alliances have become to comfortable with each other and let everyone have their own space. Their is nothing making them want to fight each other for space. A better idea would be rotate sections of nullsec that pays better than others. Force the big alliance to fight for space to earn more profits. Take out modules completely everyone on a even playing field and add bonuses certain nullsec space areas for a random amount of time and make people fight for that space. Get eve flowing again get those caps and titans into full scale warfare again insted of whats going on now where they are just used to blap someone jumping on a mining barge bait. This, I was told a nice story about how corp exes table-talk with rivals and set up "play wars" to keep their line members involved between the rare instances of actual conflict. Most of their actual fighting is via manipulating the markets.
Melf Crixaliss Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:01:38 - [1894] - Quote What you (CCP) must do instead : 1. Buff or nerf bounty, based on region that produce isk on timely basis (hourly/ daily) 2. Buff or nerf anoms spawn time, based on region that produce isk on timely basis (hourly/ daily) 3. Problems solved. Enjoy!
Jed Airtech Australian Belt Strippers Apocalypse Now. 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:02:20 - [1895] - Quote RE: Carriers should not make 46.5% of the bounties Yes they should if these players are spending more time than other players. Your data does not account for the fact that those who like to rat like to rat and thus they upgrade to carriers and rat more frequently than those who do not.
Siwash Holm Shadow State Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:03:37 - [1896] - Quote Why not just implement a bounty adjustment based on hull? you could then balance ISK rewards separate from PVP balance issues.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:07:34 - [1897] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: So let me get this straight....the guy who is having issues paying his sub is going to spend more time ratting (you can't totally AFK rat in a VNI no matter how much you guys lie about it) AND he is going to have more accounts. Maybe he should...oh I don't know....go get a better job or something instead of spending more time in his mom's basement. You're manufacturing a strawman and very poorly to boot. You're either very stupid, very pretentious, or both.
Sassura Sassy's Corporation 37	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:08:30 - [1898] - Quote Jed Airtech wrote: RE: Carriers should not make 46.5% of the bounties Yes they should if these players are spending more time than other players. Your data does not account for the fact that those who like to rat like to rat and thus they upgrade to carriers and rat more frequently than those who do not. I think there are more players in null sec than ever, a lot of them with very little to do other than rat and build up isk.
Shinto Master Trillium Invariant Honorable Third Party 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:08:48 - [1899] - Quote So Supers earn 3.1% more than cruisers, and supers are the problem?
Marcel Garsk 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:11:50 - [1900] - Quote Supposedly wormhole ticks are 1 bil ISK. Why don't CCP start from nerfing wormhole PvE???

Romulus XII Syndicate Enterprise Northern Coalition. 10	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:12:15 - [1901] - Quote "22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties." Is this total subscriber-omega character population or "active" ( a certain level of activity) rolling a month/several-months?
Valdr Auduin CatPack 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:12:19 - [1902] - Quote GothicNightmare wrote: [quote=grigair]I Their is nothing making them want to fight each other for space. A better idea would be rotate sections of nullsec that pays better than others. Force the big alliance to fight for space to earn more profits. I agree completely, after fozzie sov took over there was no need to ever use the carriers and supers to push people's faces in, now all you need is a couple ceptors to attack sov They just keep making it so certain ships are more and more useless or less effective for things, need to bring back incentives and reasons to fly the ships they have. I'ma keep saying it until somebody shoots it down. Take Fozzie SOV and rework it by making planets hold Sov and PI Command Centers hold that Sov for the owning corpmate. Now we can blow each other's logistics trains up to steal turf. Now go raid Lindisfarne.
Jed Airtech Australian Belt Strippers Apocalypse Now. 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:13:36 - [1903] - Quote Time spent is very relevant. And CCP's data does not reflect it properly. For example: if players with carriers average 10hrs of ratting a day, while players with cruisers average 1hr of ratting per day, then I hope that carriers are making >90% of bounties.
ISD Chanisa Nemes ISD Community Communications Liaisons 134	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:15:06 - [1904] - Quote Removed some offensive and off-topic posts. Please continue to be constructive with your posts :) ISD Chanisa Nemes Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1391	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:16:12 - [1905] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved As you never use your "reserved" spots, I'll do it. The %'s you used are so misleading - Try using numbers that actually correlate with your claims. 1.4% of what, 4.6% of how many players? And why do your % stop at 22.8%, who made the other 77.2% of bounties. It is so easy to have figures show exactly what you want them to, when they are incomplete. For example, how much of the sample period bounties was derived from incursions? And by what % of players? Seriously though, when you tell a bunch of players their income is about to be reduced significantly in a week wouldn't you expect them to take full advantage of what time they have left to fill wallets. Where are the figures from 5 days in January and then April - So there is something to compare to your findings.. I know the answer, they don't show anything close to the figures you've used to justify the nerfs so not available to the player base - Who by the way know you're telling falsehoods through that smug smile. (I don't mean the one on your character either) Your findings are meaningless without comparison - It is like saying, 2.1% of CCP Employees were seen drinking too heavily over 3 days at Xmas so all employees need to go to rehab and then submit to weekly urine tests (on a Monday morning) or be replaced... See how stupidly numbers can be used without correlation. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Ronan Davaham Military Gamers Tactical Narcotics Team 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:19:04 - [1906] - Quote They're only doing this to make people buy more PLEX and skill injectors. Nerf carriers and Rorquals into oblivion so we have to find other avenues of ISK making. Such avenues would require retraining and possible PLEXing/injecting. Next they're gonna nerf ship production under the guise of it's an "ISK faucet", ect. ect. ect.
KIller Wabbit MEME Thoughts 1002	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:28:22 - [1907] - Quote WitcherW wrote: I dont have carrier and still i dont like this nerfs... What? You don't feel totally incentivized to immerse into the capital ship part of the game? I'm shocked!! /s just in to be clear.
Aries Stark OZONED The-Culture 8	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:30:16 - [1908] - Quote Thats a much more reasonable balance pass. I would like to see content that encourages pvp instead of all this pve drabble to increase the isk sink. Maybe these t3c changes will give us more pvp content in nullsec.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3184	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:30:33 - [1909] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved As you never use your "reserved" spots, I'll do it. The %'s you used are so misleading - Try using numbers that actually correlate with your claims. 1.4% of what, 4.6% of how many players? And why do your % stop at 22.8%, who made the other 77.2% of bounties. Uh, the data given accounts for 65.6% of the bounties. There is no "other 77.2% of bounties". There's another 34.4% of bounties, earned by 77.2% of the players. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1392	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:30:49 - [1910] - Quote Romulus XII wrote: "22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties." Is this total subscriber-omega character population or "active" ( a certain level of activity) rolling a month/several-months? He stated 5 days in June - So last week, includes Alpha's (T1 cruisers, which is far higher income for risk, isk outlay than the other 2 combined) and a total number known only to him. Again this is CCP using a statistic THEY created with announced income reductions, to justify those income reductions. Using statistics created AFTER announcing nerfs is really poor, underhanded workmanship. Lets set players up to grind isk at an unusual rate, then use those same statistics to justify nerfing that income. Larrikin, You're a fukin genius (shame you're using it for evil) My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16149	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:33:58 - [1911] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date.[/list] Noticed this part. I'll be paying special attention to this, because this is the area where everyone can get messed up.
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 52	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:34:43 - [1912] - Quote Ronan Davaham wrote: They're only doing this to make people buy more PLEX and skill injectors. Nerf carriers and Rorquals into oblivion so we have to find other avenues of ISK making. Such avenues would require retraining and possible PLEXing/injecting. Next they're gonna nerf ship production under the guise of it's an "ISK faucet", ect. ect. ect. As I said a couple hundred posts ago... it doesn't matter what we'll find to make isk (well not me, coz i unsubbed) they will nerf that next. That is the only prediction you can make with this game. CCP will tell you numbers and stuff to make it look like it's ok to do the nerf, but they are lazy enough not to do anything with the main causes, such as injectors, sov, and all the stuff mentioned in this post. Aaaand that just pushes this game to an end soon. (Im still waiting for that sub-unsub chart that i was asking for though CCP...)
Londi Amok. Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:35:56 - [1913] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP So, you've repeatedly made the claim that it is a small population that is earning the majority of the bounties. Could you wquantify this by releasing the numbers on how many supers contributed to the super income, how many carriers contributed to their respective category and then how many subcapital drone boats for theirs? I think that would go a long way towards elaborating your concerns to the eve players instead of making broad comments. Also- could you point to any examples of where Supercarriers are overpowered when it comes to PvP, as opposed to say- dreads with capital energy neuts?
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1392	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:38:17 - [1914] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved As you never use your "reserved" spots, I'll do it. The %'s you used are so misleading - Try using numbers that actually correlate with your claims. 1.4% of what, 4.6% of how many players? And why do your % stop at 22.8% of players, who made the other 34.4% of bounties. Uh, the data given accounts for 65.6% of the bounties. There is no "other 77.2% of bounties". There's another 34.4% of bounties, earned by 77.2% of the players. Fixed My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Ian Hestia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:39:23 - [1915] - Quote Londi wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP So, you've repeatedly made the claim that it is a small population that is earning the majority of the bounties. Could you wquantify this by releasing the numbers on how many supers contributed to the super income, how many carriers contributed to their respective category and then how many subcapital drone boats for theirs? I think that would go a long way towards elaborating your concerns to the eve players instead of making broad comments. Also- could you point to any examples of where Supercarriers are overpowered when it comes to PvP, as opposed to say- dreads with capital energy neuts? I want to know, too.
lorddlo25 DAB Mordus Angels 6	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:41:12 - [1916] - Quote Londi wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP So, you've repeatedly made the claim that it is a small population that is earning the majority of the bounties. Could you wquantify this by releasing the numbers on how many supers contributed to the super income, how many carriers contributed to their respective category and then how many subcapital drone boats for theirs? I think that would go a long way towards elaborating your concerns to the eve players instead of making broad comments. Also- could you point to any examples of where Supercarriers are overpowered when it comes to PvP, as opposed to say- dreads with capital energy neuts? would also be great to know the hours of which is used and for how long as someone in a super could be ratting 10-12 hours and a T1 cruiser 2-3 hours which then those stat's would miss represent everything and show that super's are not the issue at all nor carriers....
Raz Tanta Lisnave Mordus Angels 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:41:20 - [1917] - Quote Thx for nothing CCP , i spend a lot of time to get my carrier now you come and F**** my game ... In this case, you never see again the color of my money... This means im one of that player never play this game again ...
John Revenent Revenent Defence Corperation 404 Alliance Not Found 716	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:45:17 - [1918] - Quote Keep up the good work CCP. It was more fun when we were all poor. No, I'm not being sarcastic. Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
Khara Hirl Almost Tech II RAZOR Alliance 39	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:46:24 - [1919] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Shinto Master wrote: So Supers earn 3.1% more than cruisers, and supers are the problem? A: Supers, as a class, earned 16.75% more than T1 cruisers, as a class. B: They did it with 1/12 the number of people. For every ratting super, there are 12 people ratting in T1 cruisers who are earning less, collectively, than that one super. So, yes, ratting supers are a problem. Supers made 16% more money but cost 40 times more then a t1 ratting ship.. yeah but THEY are the probem. Shut the **** up moron.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3185	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:46:50 - [1920] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved As you never use your "reserved" spots, I'll do it. The %'s you used are so misleading - Try using numbers that actually correlate with your claims. 1.4% of what, 4.6% of how many players? And why do your % stop at 22.8% of players, who made the other 34.4% of bounties. Uh, the data given accounts for 65.6% of the bounties. There is no "other 77.2% of bounties". There's another 34.4% of bounties, earned by 77.2% of the players. Fixed Ok, but you see the problem with the underlying question, right? The answer is, "The other 34.4% of the bounties were made by the remaining 77.2% of the players." While they probably could give more resolution on those values, you already know that you're talking about a majority of players earning a minority share of bounties, so it's unlikely to be very interesting. Meanwhile, a very slim minority of players using carriers and supercarriers account for almost half of the bounties, all by themselves. I'd imagine the rest are mostly divvied up between mission runners and the like, probably mostly BS and T3s with a smattering of other ships. Ishtar probably makes a reasonable showing in there somewhere, as well. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3185	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:48:00 - [1921] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Shinto Master wrote: So Supers earn 3.1% more than cruisers, and supers are the problem? A: Supers, as a class, earned 16.75% more than T1 cruisers, as a class. B: They did it with 1/12 the number of people. For every ratting super, there are 12 people ratting in T1 cruisers who are earning less, collectively, than that one super. So, yes, ratting supers are a problem. Supers made 16% more money but cost 40 times more then a t1 ratting ship.. yeah but THEY are the probem. Shut the **** up moron. Oh, well if someone paid a lot for their ship I guess we should just sacrifice the entire economy so they feel like their investment was worthwhile. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3407	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:48:19 - [1922] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Shinto Master wrote: So Supers earn 3.1% more than cruisers, and supers are the problem? A: Supers, as a class, earned 16.75% more than T1 cruisers, as a class. B: They did it with 1/12 the number of people. For every ratting super, there are 12 people ratting in T1 cruisers who are earning less, collectively, than that one super. So, yes, ratting supers are a problem. Supers made 16% more money but cost 40 times more then a t1 ratting ship.. yeah but THEY are the probem. Shut the **** up moron. As power increase linearly, cost is supposed to increase exponentially in EVE. You should understand that by the time you train into a carrier/super.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4022	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:48:59 - [1923] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: He stated 5 days in June - So last week, includes Alpha's (T1 cruisers, which is far higher income for risk, isk outlay than the other 2 combined) and a total number known only to him. Again this is CCP using a statistic THEY created with announced income reductions, to justify those income reductions. Using statistics created AFTER announcing nerfs is really poor, underhanded workmanship. Lets set players up to grind isk at an unusual rate, then use those same statistics to justify nerfing that income. Larrikin, You're a fukin genius (shame you're using it for evil) There haven't even been five days since the first post, so there is no way the statistics he used for this maths can be entirely after the announcement. And that is assuming they pulled the last five days fresh off the server rather than running the maths on the first five days of June. So.... Yeah. As for total number of players, you really expect CCP to provide that data? Best analysis I've seen of their financial reports says somewhere between 300-400k though, based on the 1.5 ratio of accounts to players they released a while back. Alpha's will add to that but not in a significant manner from appearances. To break that income CCP Larakin posted down a little better. 1% of the population using Supers earned 15.9% of all bounties. 1% of the population using carriers earned 5.0% of all bounties. 1% of the population using T1 cruisers earned 1.15% of all bounties. This means Supers earn 13.8 times more isk on average than a T1 cruiser does. Yeah....... Not seeing T1 cruisers earning an unfair amount of income here. Basically, learn to maths and don't look like an idiot complaining about stats that obviously show the problem.
Dan Sever XAOS RELOADED Legion of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:52:08 - [1924] - Quote Khara Hirl wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Shinto Master wrote: So Supers earn 3.1% more than cruisers, and supers are the problem? A: Supers, as a class, earned 16.75% more than T1 cruisers, as a class. B: They did it with 1/12 the number of people. For every ratting super, there are 12 people ratting in T1 cruisers who are earning less, collectively, than that one super. So, yes, ratting supers are a problem. Supers made 16% more money but cost 40 times more then a t1 ratting ship.. yeah but THEY are the probem. Shut the **** up moron. I love to see people like you going down. The ultimate pleasure.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6631	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:53:45 - [1925] - Quote Sassura wrote: Teckos Pech So let me get this straight....the guy who is having issues paying his sub is going to spend more time ratting (you can't totally AFK rat in a VNI no matter how much you guys lie about it) AND he is going to have more accounts. Maybe he should...oh I don't know....go get a better job or something instead of spending more time in his mom's basement. [:roll: wrote: When you have to resort to comments about peoples real life jobs and 'moms basement' comments it seems that you are out of reasonable and factual comments. Your posts read more like reddit posts. There are people whose opinions I do not necessarily agree with that I enjoy interacting with, ingame and on the forums. Their posts give me fresh insight into other perspectives and widen my thinking. It's a pleasure to banter with them. They in turn, for the most part. can express themselves without falling back to insults. It's a shame that you Sir, are not one of those people. It would give your posts more credibility. It is called better allocating your time...like an adult. If you are having that kind of difficulty, then playing MORE of a video game is not really a very responsible choice. Further, "balancing" the game around such players is also not very reasonable as it has the potential to wreck the in game economy. Maybe if all the butthurt players threatening to quite actually became more reasonable we could have that civil discussion. But most people here have their heads firmly ensconced between their buttocks and are working over time to pretend this problem is not a problem. A 757% increase in the growth rate of the money supply over the average is nowhere near Goddamn reasonable. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 49	Posted - 2017.06.12 19:54:10 - [1926] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: C0ATL wrote: PenguinBacon wrote: I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. THAT ^ ^ ^ It begs the question...how true are those numbers? Why didnt we get a nice graph like the ones in the report? Why wasnt a bounty income per ship type graph included in the monthly report (didnt even need to include all 200 ships...just cruiser/battleships/capitals/supercapitals)? And most important of all...why weren't these numbers given in the original post? Because it's CCP and they never anticipate the about of nerd rage that's about to come at them... Nonsense... Why did they do it several years back? Hell, they would explain things to the most minute details and even give responses to potential question in anticipation of what ppl would reply.... Not 4 day notices to heavy handed nerfs without any back-up to their explanation other than "We do it cause we think its good for the game.". Its their right to change the game as they wish, cause its theirs, afterall.... but to every action there is always a reaction. This time they got a train-wreck on the forums and reddit so they slowly backed down on. If they were so sure and rooted in belief that this would be healthy for the game, while not having any underlying agenda, why did they go back to 10% instead of 20% ? Surely if their game is breaking without these nerfs, should they not implement them, even at the cost of a percentage of subscribers? The whole "Cut the leg to save the rest of the body" situation... No... this was all an attempt to get people into buying more injectors to respec out of carriers into the next best hit with ratting or PLEXing multiple acounts to farm with, and when they were called on it, CCP backed up quickly and reconsidered the numbers while still applying a nerf to save face. They are making carriers and supercarriers seem like the next worst thing after a plague... but in truth, no game developer would let an element kill their game, even if 6% of their players left. The nerf was never needed.
sabastyian Absolute Massive Destruction Initiative Mercenaries 30	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:00:47 - [1927] - Quote Quote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. For may; 4537 VNI's were lost for around 502.5b 648 Carriers were lost for around 1.6T 51 supers were lost for 1.41T Supers as a whole netted just under 900b last month Carriers as aw hole netted 1t last month VNI's/T1 cruisers netted about 1.5T last month. If you are going to focus on numbers why don't we focus on how many of each ship were lost during the activities as well as looking at fighter losses.
Ramuthra Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:03:14 - [1928] - Quote Gotta love all these salty tears from no-lifing super ratters that are getting their isk faucet nerfed. The new carrier/supercarriers were overpowered af, for a very few select elite, which is why multiple nerfs were needed. Kudos to CCP for doing the right thing for the EVE Economy as a whole.
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory. 13	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:05:29 - [1929] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Helga Chelien wrote: You will be able to lower T1 cruiser? They extract as much isk, how much supercarrier. Not on a per-capita basis, they don't. sabastyian wrote: Supers as a whole netted just under 900b last month Carriers as aw hole netted 1t last month VNI's/T1 cruisers netted about 1.5T last month. Levelized data suggests that capitals are not the culprit. Net after ship replacement from routine PvE is in favor of cruisers taking home the most bounties for the May economic report.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3409	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:06:29 - [1930] - Quote sabastyian wrote: Quote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. For may; 4537 VNI's were lost for around 502.5b 648 Carriers were lost for around 1.6T 51 supers were lost for 1.41T Supers as a whole netted just under 900b last month Carriers as aw hole netted 1t last month VNI's/T1 cruisers netted about 1.5T last month. If you are going to focus on numbers why don't we focus on how many of each ship were lost during the activities as well as looking at fighter losses. The rattign data he provided is not a month but 5 days. Your number don't align.

Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3409	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:07:56 - [1931] - Quote Tessa Sage wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Helga Chelien wrote: You will be able to lower T1 cruiser? They extract as much isk, how much supercarrier. Not on a per-capita basis, they don't. sabastyian wrote: Supers as a whole netted just under 900b last month Carriers as aw hole netted 1t last month VNI's/T1 cruisers netted about 1.5T last month. Levelized data suggests that capitals are not the culprit. Net after ship replacement from routine PvE is in favor of cruisers taking home the most bounties for the May economic report. Your data is wrong. This "net" data is removing the loss of a month compared to the income of 5 days.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3191	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:11:59 - [1932] - Quote Tessa Sage wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Helga Chelien wrote: You will be able to lower T1 cruiser? They extract as much isk, how much supercarrier. Not on a per-capita basis, they don't. sabastyian wrote: Supers as a whole netted just under 900b last month Carriers as aw hole netted 1t last month VNI's/T1 cruisers netted about 1.5T last month. Levelized data suggests that capitals are not the culprit. Net after ship replacement from routine PvE is in favor of cruisers taking home the most bounties for the May economic report. 1. Sabastyian screwed up and used 5 day's worth of bounty data Vs. an entire month's worth of lost ship data. 2. The problem isn't how much ISK the players earn, the problem is how much new isk is introduced to the economy. Pretty sure dead supers actually net positive on the amount of isk in the economy "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1392	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:12:43 - [1933] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved As you never use your "reserved" spots, I'll do it. The %'s you used are so misleading - Try using numbers that actually correlate with your claims. 1.4% of what, 4.6% of how many players? And why do your % stop at 22.8% of players, who made the other 34.4% of bounties. Uh, the data given accounts for 65.6% of the bounties. There is no "other 77.2% of bounties". There's another 34.4% of bounties, earned by 77.2% of the players. Fixed Ok, but you see the problem with the underlying question, right? The answer is, "The other 34.4% of the bounties were made by the remaining 77.2% of the players." While they probably could give more resolution on those values, you already know that you're talking about a majority of players earning a minority share of bounties, so it's unlikely to be very interesting. Meanwhile, a very slim minority of players using carriers and supercarriers account for almost half of the bounties, all by themselves. I'd imagine the rest are mostly divvied up between mission runners and the like, probably mostly BS and T3s with a smattering of other ships. Ishtar probably makes a reasonable showing in there somewhere, as well. Are you sure? I ran incursions for a long time and made around the same isk PH (more if you include Concord LP) out of them as I do ratting in my super. For a lot less isk outlay, less competition for sites and way less risk.. I see the problem as; A dev using a statistic that does not correlate with "actual earnings" as the reasoning for a nerf. Yes those 2 do account for a larger than normal amount of income - Because those who use them are out to make as much as possible in a short period of time in the knowledge it will be their last opportunity to do so. Post patch Tuesday carrier and super ratting will all but cease - VNI's and Ishtars will be the primary earners followed by Snakes and T2 BS's. Do keep in mind, this change to ratting will affect many more players than the ratters themselves. It also affects builders of capitals and fittings plus a quite large impact on miners. Personally I think the surplus minerals that will start appearing in the market place as capital production is cut back is going to drive prices even lower. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6631	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:13:34 - [1934] - Quote Hogeron Amelan wrote: you guys from CCP have to learn how to read graphs... When you average the increase in ISK since the citadel upgrade, aka since carriers and supers can generate ISK the way they do now (May 2016 - June 2017), roughtly estimated 1085T-960T=125 T ISK in 13 months what equals 9,6T or lets say rougly 10T ISK/month since May 2016. When you compare the months before, (Oct 2014- Apr. 2016) thats about 790-600T = 190T in 17 months, what equals about 11,2T per month so thats over 10% more than we have now. So in which mathematical universe you are living to say that 11,2 is less than 10 that the actual income situation is not tolerable when there was even more income generated per month before the carrier change? Of cause when you see the smooth lines before the citadel patch and the edgy lines after it, you can see that people are struggeling with a constant method for income, meaning that the game content is rapidly shifting between making Isk and loosing it. Would you please add a 30-day-playtime cost development graph to that one please? Maybe then you will find out why people are up to increase their income in short periods of time and you may think about it how to introduce game mechanics for a more stable economy. Instead of fine-tuning with a precision tool you are ripping of vavles and soldering rips in the pipes of the material flow... The average growth rate in the money supply up to Nov. 2016 is about 7 trillion. After that there is considerably more volatility. However, for May 2017 the money supply for just characters grew 53 trillion. That is a huge increase. Using the updated OP and the ratios there as a crude measure of that 53 trillion about 24-25 trillion came from carriers, about 10 trillion from T1 cruisers. And the rest from all other ships. And if there were 2,000 characters ratting in carriers and supers, that is over 12.3 billion on average per character for one month. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6631	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:16:18 - [1935] - Quote Well at least people are not looking at the data... BTW you can download the daily numbers from the Devblog. The money supply numbers are in a csv file and everyone should be able to look at in Excel or Google Sheets. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3192	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:16:20 - [1936] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Are you sure? I ran incursions for a long time and made around the same isk PH (more if you include Concord LP) out of them as I do ratting in my super. For a lot less isk outlay, less competition for sites and way less risk.. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Incursion payouts are tracked separately from bounty prizes, and the data was specifically about bounty prizes. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
act 757 Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:18:30 - [1937] - Quote Nerf super and carrier ratting ... +100 for this nerf their DPs on subcaps for PVP plz too many supers in game now... but not enough death of supers... need to change the sov mechanics and fatigue systems..
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1392	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:19:48 - [1938] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Hogeron Amelan wrote: you guys from CCP have to learn how to read graphs... When you average the increase in ISK since the citadel upgrade, aka since carriers and supers can generate ISK the way they do now (May 2016 - June 2017), roughtly estimated 1085T-960T=125 T ISK in 13 months what equals 9,6T or lets say rougly 10T ISK/month since May 2016. When you compare the months before, (Oct 2014- Apr. 2016) thats about 790-600T = 190T in 17 months, what equals about 11,2T per month so thats over 10% more than we have now. So in which mathematical universe you are living to say that 11,2 is less than 10 that the actual income situation is not tolerable when there was even more income generated per month before the carrier change? Of cause when you see the smooth lines before the citadel patch and the edgy lines after it, you can see that people are struggeling with a constant method for income, meaning that the game content is rapidly shifting between making Isk and loosing it. Would you please add a 30-day-playtime cost development graph to that one please? Maybe then you will find out why people are up to increase their income in short periods of time and you may think about it how to introduce game mechanics for a more stable economy. Instead of fine-tuning with a precision tool you are ripping of vavles and soldering rips in the pipes of the material flow... The average growth rate in the money supply up to Nov. 2016 is about 7 trillion. After that there is considerably more volatility. However, for May 2017 the money supply for just characters grew 53 trillion. That is a huge increase. Using the updated OP and the ratios there as a crude measure of that 53 trillion about 24-25 trillion came from carriers, about 10 trillion from T1 cruisers. And the rest from all other ships. And if there were 2,000 characters ratting in carriers and supers, that is over 12.3 billion on average per character for one month. You my friend need to stop posting now - Using the updated OP is not even close to accurate. So any numbers you magically pulled out of it are also inaccurate.. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3409	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:22:01 - [1939] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Hogeron Amelan wrote: you guys from CCP have to learn how to read graphs... When you average the increase in ISK since the citadel upgrade, aka since carriers and supers can generate ISK the way they do now (May 2016 - June 2017), roughtly estimated 1085T-960T=125 T ISK in 13 months what equals 9,6T or lets say rougly 10T ISK/month since May 2016. When you compare the months before, (Oct 2014- Apr. 2016) thats about 790-600T = 190T in 17 months, what equals about 11,2T per month so thats over 10% more than we have now. So in which mathematical universe you are living to say that 11,2 is less than 10 that the actual income situation is not tolerable when there was even more income generated per month before the carrier change? Of cause when you see the smooth lines before the citadel patch and the edgy lines after it, you can see that people are struggeling with a constant method for income, meaning that the game content is rapidly shifting between making Isk and loosing it. Would you please add a 30-day-playtime cost development graph to that one please? Maybe then you will find out why people are up to increase their income in short periods of time and you may think about it how to introduce game mechanics for a more stable economy. Instead of fine-tuning with a precision tool you are ripping of vavles and soldering rips in the pipes of the material flow... The average growth rate in the money supply up to Nov. 2016 is about 7 trillion. After that there is considerably more volatility. However, for May 2017 the money supply for just characters grew 53 trillion. That is a huge increase. Using the updated OP and the ratios there as a crude measure of that 53 trillion about 24-25 trillion came from carriers, about 10 trillion from T1 cruisers. And the rest from all other ships. And if there were 2,000 characters ratting in carriers and supers, that is over 12.3 billion on average per character for one month. You my friend need to stop posting now - Using the updated OP is not even close to accurate. So any numbers you magically pulled out of it are also inaccurate.. How do you know it's not accurate? You are always mad when carriers get nerfed but that does not mean you can pretend the data is not accurate just because.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6632	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:26:27 - [1940] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Hogeron Amelan wrote: you guys from CCP have to learn how to read graphs... When you average the increase in ISK since the citadel upgrade, aka since carriers and supers can generate ISK the way they do now (May 2016 - June 2017), roughtly estimated 1085T-960T=125 T ISK in 13 months what equals 9,6T or lets say rougly 10T ISK/month since May 2016. When you compare the months before, (Oct 2014- Apr. 2016) thats about 790-600T = 190T in 17 months, what equals about 11,2T per month so thats over 10% more than we have now. So in which mathematical universe you are living to say that 11,2 is less than 10 that the actual income situation is not tolerable when there was even more income generated per month before the carrier change? Of cause when you see the smooth lines before the citadel patch and the edgy lines after it, you can see that people are struggeling with a constant method for income, meaning that the game content is rapidly shifting between making Isk and loosing it. Would you please add a 30-day-playtime cost development graph to that one please? Maybe then you will find out why people are up to increase their income in short periods of time and you may think about it how to introduce game mechanics for a more stable economy. Instead of fine-tuning with a precision tool you are ripping of vavles and soldering rips in the pipes of the material flow... The average growth rate in the money supply up to Nov. 2016 is about 7 trillion. After that there is considerably more volatility. However, for May 2017 the money supply for just characters grew 53 trillion. That is a huge increase. Using the updated OP and the ratios there as a crude measure of that 53 trillion about 24-25 trillion came from carriers, about 10 trillion from T1 cruisers. And the rest from all other ships. And if there were 2,000 characters ratting in carriers and supers, that is over 12.3 billion on average per character for one month. You my friend need to stop posting now - Using the updated OP is not even close to accurate. So any numbers you magically pulled out of it are also inaccurate.. Yes, because they do not agree with your preconceived beliefs they must be wrong. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6632	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:27:30 - [1941] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Hogeron Amelan wrote: you guys from CCP have to learn how to read graphs... When you average the increase in ISK since the citadel upgrade, aka since carriers and supers can generate ISK the way they do now (May 2016 - June 2017), roughtly estimated 1085T-960T=125 T ISK in 13 months what equals 9,6T or lets say rougly 10T ISK/month since May 2016. When you compare the months before, (Oct 2014- Apr. 2016) thats about 790-600T = 190T in 17 months, what equals about 11,2T per month so thats over 10% more than we have now. So in which mathematical universe you are living to say that 11,2 is less than 10 that the actual income situation is not tolerable when there was even more income generated per month before the carrier change? Of cause when you see the smooth lines before the citadel patch and the edgy lines after it, you can see that people are struggeling with a constant method for income, meaning that the game content is rapidly shifting between making Isk and loosing it. Would you please add a 30-day-playtime cost development graph to that one please? Maybe then you will find out why people are up to increase their income in short periods of time and you may think about it how to introduce game mechanics for a more stable economy. Instead of fine-tuning with a precision tool you are ripping of vavles and soldering rips in the pipes of the material flow... The average growth rate in the money supply up to Nov. 2016 is about 7 trillion. After that there is considerably more volatility. However, for May 2017 the money supply for just characters grew 53 trillion. That is a huge increase. Using the updated OP and the ratios there as a crude measure of that 53 trillion about 24-25 trillion came from carriers, about 10 trillion from T1 cruisers. And the rest from all other ships. And if there were 2,000 characters ratting in carriers and supers, that is over 12.3 billion on average per character for one month. You my friend need to stop posting now - Using the updated OP is not even close to accurate. So any numbers you magically pulled out of it are also inaccurate.. How do you know it's not accurate? You are always mad when carriers get nerfed but that does not mean you can pretend the data is not accurate just because. And the implication is that all the data is wrong too. All of it. Every MER. And that everyone at CCP are drooling morons who can't write queries and do basic arithmetic. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Eric Lemmonte F-I-N-K Industry The Volition Cult 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:29:00 - [1942] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Eric Lemmonte wrote: Looking at some of those graphs they have on https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/ makes me wonder if they could fix this issue with tweaking manufacture numbers somehow. Both bounty and produced good prices have gone up in a very similar profile this last year. It looks to me that people are ratting the best way they can to pay for these ever increasing costs to buy produced goods. You still have time to fix this. Don't be hasty and make such a drastic change without first thinking it over. I see that online player counts have dwindled over the years and I can't help but think that CCP is getting anxious that they're starting to lose their cash cow. Right now we're down to the same number of online players as back in 2008. Please don't turn into another EA or Activision. Just make a quality game and you will keep a loyal player base. These wild changes you keep doing is making this a bumpy road for everyone So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. That is reasonable to you? Really? Lets screw over players who are not causing the problem and let those who are continue on making a mess. And you do realize that the CPI has been essentially flat for like that last 6 months to a year, right? Oh, and that is likely an overstatement of inflation as CCP use, IIRC, a Laspreyes index which can have issues with being upwardly biased. You're jumping to conclusions a little fast aren't you? They could easily change mineral requirements for ships, modules, and the like... That would mean more isk in the MINER pocket, probably the same or more for the manufacturer, and it would eat away isk from the bounty payouts.
Aphrodita Engelbreht DELTA FORCE RANGERS 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:30:32 - [1943] - Quote Way to cry I just unsub after thos all shity changes wath made ccp starting from rorquals and now carriers and supers. Simply I and my frends are running out there accounts and not subbing them again, mostly wie run out off game time in 2 weeks - 20 subed accounts for ccp. Nice job CCP. P.S. Don't ask for our stuf wie my return when ccp will fix this how it was.
Eric Lemmonte F-I-N-K Industry The Volition Cult 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:33:35 - [1944] - Quote Petros K wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: [quote=Eric Lemmonte] So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ? A T2 high and faction DDAs can get about 60 mISK ticks for a Nidhoggur or Thanatos. So upwards of 180 mISK per hour.
Marcel Garsk 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:46:43 - [1945] - Quote Dear CCP! Please buff anomalies dread, commander and escalation spawns to compensate us. Thanks!
Aphrodita Engelbreht DELTA FORCE RANGERS 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:49:10 - [1946] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: Dear CCP! Please buff dread, commander and escalation spawns in anoms to compensate us. Thanks! They will not do that they just nerfed them :)
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3413	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:49:32 - [1947] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: Dear CCP! Please buff dread, commander and escalation spawns in anoms to compensate us. Thanks! When the intend is to nerf, there is no need for compensation.
Jed Airtech Australian Belt Strippers Apocalypse Now. 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:49:40 - [1948] - Quote sabastyian wrote: [quote] Currently in June; 1749 Vnis have been lost for 191.66b 270 Carriers have been lost for 683.73b 34 supers have been lost for nearly 1.1T If you are going to focus on numbers why don't we focus on how many of each ship were lost during the activities as well as looking at fighter losses. If youre so focused on how high tier ships that take ages to train into ( or at the very least a lot of isk for injectors ) because they add to much money, why dont you adress how 19.1-20% of null-sec isk is made by characters that can be trained within 2 months. It's because they are not focused on real facts. They believe something, so they went to their numbers to find some that said what they believe.
Natalia Alianovna Romanova Grey Enterprises Holdings Inc 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:53:48 - [1949] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. After 5 years playing EvE online and this is the recognition i get from CCP. Honestly i'm deeply disappointed.
xOmGx Order of Order SOLAR FLEET 20	Posted - 2017.06.12 20:53:53 - [1950] - Quote Create anomalies for Capital ships with dreadnought spawns and titans Lets say 5-6 Dreds and 1 titan on the field + 20-30 BS WITH chance to drop capital class modules and Domination / Deadspace loot off Titan

Martehh Starfury Holdings 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:05:33 - [1951] - Quote Look according to your graph there is over a quadrillion amount of isk in New eden. Now you have to ask yourself how is this nerf even going to matter on a macro scale, the answer is it is not. Content drives this game not isk, we are seeing anomalous figures because the content is stale. The content in this game is stale because the sov system does not encourage large entities to fight each other. The quality of small gang pvp is interdependent on large entities in this game going kinetic at each other. CCP you are building a house without a strong foundation it will collapse. Your number one priority is sov at this point, unless you want to take the game in a drastically different pubbie direction.
xOmGx Order of Order SOLAR FLEET 22	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:16:34 - [1952] - Quote Sov system does NOT encourage deploying and or use of capitalships CCP need to go back to SOV blocade units and or POS warfire (POS warfire will boost need for POS and POS fuel and so) Create / go back to NPC fuel blocks (yes yes abandon planetary stuff) NPC _SELL_ stuff to players - ISK removed from the game Player sell stuff to another player - ISK is relocated and NOT removed TO remove ISK you have to make NPC relates ISK sinks NOT the relocation due to player to player trade
Marcel Garsk 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:20:47 - [1953] - Quote ^^^ Actualy CCP removes POS from game. And what do you think about replacing carriers with dreads as main ratting tool?
Fats Dominic Usque Ad Mortem Solyaris Chtonium 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:22:56 - [1954] - Quote Sorry if someone already mentioned this, so if the problem is PVE, and people are complaining about what it will do to PVP, what about having a damage nerf to fighters based on how many DPS fighters are in your tubes? i.e. ratting with 3 tubes of light fighters would have a 10% damage decrease or whatever, but for PVP most people use 2 tubes of damage and 1 support, make the damage nerf not apply in that scenario so PVP carriers arn't gimped as much.
xOmGx Order of Order SOLAR FLEET 22	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:23:19 - [1955] - Quote POS need to stay... its the only mobile safe heaven for supercapitals LOL we are not considering Keepstars as main save heaven to these ships righ? WTB keepstar in every system!!!
Valdr Auduin CatPack 10	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:26:12 - [1956] - Quote xOmGx wrote: POS need to stay... its the only mobile safe heaven for supercapitals LOL we are not considering Keepstars as main save heaven to these ships righ? WTB keepstar in every system!!! The big boys can easily manage it, I'm sure.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6635	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:39:00 - [1957] - Quote Eric Lemmonte wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Eric Lemmonte wrote: Looking at some of those graphs they have on https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2017/ makes me wonder if they could fix this issue with tweaking manufacture numbers somehow. Both bounty and produced good prices have gone up in a very similar profile this last year. It looks to me that people are ratting the best way they can to pay for these ever increasing costs to buy produced goods. You still have time to fix this. Don't be hasty and make such a drastic change without first thinking it over. I see that online player counts have dwindled over the years and I can't help but think that CCP is getting anxious that they're starting to lose their cash cow. Right now we're down to the same number of online players as back in 2008. Please don't turn into another EA or Activision. Just make a quality game and you will keep a loyal player base. These wild changes you keep doing is making this a bumpy road for everyone So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super. That is reasonable to you? Really? Lets screw over players who are not causing the problem and let those who are continue on making a mess. And you do realize that the CPI has been essentially flat for like that last 6 months to a year, right? Oh, and that is likely an overstatement of inflation as CCP use, IIRC, a Laspreyes index which can have issues with being upwardly biased. You're jumping to conclusions a little fast aren't you? They could easily change mineral requirements for ships, modules, and the like... That would mean more isk in the MINER pocket, probably the same or more for the manufacturer, and it would eat away isk from the bounty payouts. So now we are to change more things that aren't causing the problem to fix the problem. Tell me do you work in Washington D.C. because you have the perfect set of "problem solving" skills. Why not just turn of the fountain that is letting huge amounts of ISK gush into the economy. Oh wait, that would actually make sense. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6635	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:43:18 - [1958] - Quote Martehh wrote: Look according to your graph there is over a quadrillion amount of isk in New eden. Now you have to ask yourself how is this nerf even going to matter on a macro scale, the answer is it is not. Content drives this game not isk, we are seeing anomalous figures because the content is stale. The content in this game is stale because the sov system does not encourage large entities to fight each other. The quality of small gang pvp is interdependent on large entities in this game going kinetic at each other. CCP you are building a house without a strong foundation it will collapse. Your number one priority is sov at this point, unless you want to take the game in a drastically different pubbie direction. If the money supply grows too fast you'll end up with inflation....potentially alot of inflation, especially if players feel they need to carrier/super rat to keep up--i.e. a positive feedback loop. You need to look at flows, not stocks. If you don't know those two terms, GTFO. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3195	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:43:29 - [1959] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Are you sure? I ran incursions for a long time and made around the same isk PH (more if you include Concord LP) out of them as I do ratting in my super. For a lot less isk outlay, less competition for sites and way less risk.. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Incursion payouts are tracked separately from bounty prizes, and the data was specifically about bounty prizes. They may be tracked separately but are still paid as bounties.. And pay more PH than carrier ratting which makes Devs assertion that carriers need to be nerfed because they earn too much a straight out lie.. If incursions aren't included there is even more reason for Larrikin to show accurate and complete statistics for his 5 day period rather than an anomalous %. Dishonesty as to motives has been a thing with CCP and this thread is a prime example of it.,. Either way, this change is going to have detrimental affects right across the game - It not only affects ratters but every income stream associated with carriers and Supers in addition to market sales.. All my bling fits (most of my ships are either faction or deadspace fit) are being broken down to T2. Previews of potential new doctrines after the Pirate ship changes are T2 or at best a mix of faction and T2 (cheap and disposable). This will also impact markets as players can no longer afford those bling fits. ...are you just outright missing the (flat and considerably smaller) incursion data line on that chart, or are you just refusing to incorporate that information into your worldview? "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6635	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:48:32 - [1960] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Are you sure? I ran incursions for a long time and made around the same isk PH (more if you include Concord LP) out of them as I do ratting in my super. For a lot less isk outlay, less competition for sites and way less risk.. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Incursion payouts are tracked separately from bounty prizes, and the data was specifically about bounty prizes. They may be tracked separately but are still paid as bounties.. And pay more PH than carrier ratting which makes Devs assertion that carriers need to be nerfed because they earn too much a straight out lie.. If incursions aren't included there is even more reason for Larrikin to show accurate and complete statistics for his 5 day period rather than an anomalous %. Dishonesty as to motives has been a thing with CCP and this thread is a prime example of it.,. Either way, this change is going to have detrimental affects right across the game - It not only affects ratters but every income stream associated with carriers and Supers in addition to market sales.. All my bling fits (most of my ships are either faction or deadspace fit) are being broken down to T2. Previews of potential new doctrines after the Pirate ship changes are T2 or at best a mix of faction and T2 (cheap and disposable). This will also impact markets as players can no longer afford those bling fits. ...are you just outright missing the (flat and considerably smaller) incursion data line on that chart, or are you just refusing to incorporate that information into your worldview? I'm going to guess both. His blinkered world view won't let him see the data line. Were incursions causing a problem in March 2016? No. April 2016? No. May 2016? No. Is there any indication that incursions were a potential source of high inflation? No. Okay, lets nerf incursions! It is amazing because it is actually the exact same thing everyone is accusing CCP of doing. Of course, CCP has numbers on their side. Which is why the numbers have to be declared fake. It is refreshing to see that people really are this blinkered. When given data that literally goes against their beliefs and statements it is the data that is wrong, not their beliefs. Nope, can't be those. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18970	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:50:46 - [1961] - Quote Jed Airtech wrote: sabastyian wrote: [quote] Currently in June; 1749 Vnis have been lost for 191.66b 270 Carriers have been lost for 683.73b 34 supers have been lost for nearly 1.1T If you are going to focus on numbers why don't we focus on how many of each ship were lost during the activities as well as looking at fighter losses. If youre so focused on how high tier ships that take ages to train into ( or at the very least a lot of isk for injectors ) because they add to much money, why dont you adress how 19.1-20% of null-sec isk is made by characters that can be trained within 2 months. It's because they are not focused on real facts. They believe something, so they went to their numbers to find some that said what they believe. If we are going to go on about cherry picking numbers how many of those ships died doing PVE? Also how many died in the 5 days that were used by the OP? Frankly I would much rather see people ratting in cruisers than supers as that means I can actually attack them solo.
singthegrief Celestial Horizon Corp. Badfellas Inc. 17	Posted - 2017.06.12 21:51:26 - [1962] - Quote As i was one of the people who lost his ** over the changes, i do think this was a good call on your part to "nerf your nerf". That being said it doesn't change how i feel. I have spent years and tons or real money and isk to get my toon to be able to fly a nyx perfectly. and i am by no way a rich man in eve. I am in no way a 1%er! In my opinion after these changes that investment is not worth what i feel it was. i did not inject in to one i did it the hard way with sweat and time and real money though subscribing. now my huge ship that cost me 10s of billions of isk is not worth anything anymore to me. i don't want to stress that enough TO ME. I do understand that you need to keep the market and economy right side up. but if you would have never added the cheat code "injectors" this would have never been as big as a problem as it is today. You wanted to go in the direction of EA with ton of micro-transactions . even after people like me already have to omega to continue to have the same out of the game. you have turned it in to a pay to win game. and i for one will still be finding other things to play. after a good 11 years playing. one last note about the comments made by CCP Quant. It doesn't matter if we are being "whiners" or not its not a good business practice to talk ** about the so called "1 percent" even if it was tried to be swept under the rug. remember we paid for this game to keep running when your log in numbers where low and you did not know where this game would be going.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6635	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:00:16 - [1963] - Quote Videles Silenthunter wrote: Drak'Eisgvarde Crepari wrote: Ridiculous. 100T change over the past year or so which is the norm for the past several years. How about fixing the isk sinks instead? Things like market taxes took a hit with citadels. Up the items bought from NPCs with isk, particularly cosmetic ones. New skins, a mix of LP and isk (or just isk). New clothes with isk. Maybe change up t2 citadel rigs and give them less T2 salvage but some NPC sold items. Have it cost isk to unlock additional jump clones, not just take a skill. 1000 isk for the first. 10b isk for the 10th. Have additional bonus remaps that can be bought for isk. Maybe allow different clones with different remaps, for a substantial isk price. Increase the array of hardwirings, particularly for slots 6-10. so many ways to drain isk. @Dev you should hire someone like this So we should nerf the game for those not causing the problem? Yeah that makes sense. Jesus... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18970	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:03:56 - [1964] - Quote singthegrief wrote: As i was one of the people who lost his ** over the changes, i do think this was a good call on your part to "nerf your nerf". That being said it doesn't change how i feel. I have spent years and tons or real money and isk to get my toon to be able to fly a nyx perfectly. and i am by no way a rich man in eve. I am in no way a 1%er! In my opinion after these changes that investment is not worth what i feel it was. i did not inject in to one i did it the hard way with sweat and time and real money though subscribing. now my huge ship that cost me 10s of billions of isk is not worth anything anymore to me. i don't want to stress that enough TO ME. I do understand that you need to keep the market and economy right side up. but if you would have never added the cheat code "injectors" this would have never been as big as a problem as it is today. You wanted to go in the direction of EA with ton of micro-transactions . even after people like me already have to omega to continue to have the same out of the game. you have turned it in to a pay to win game. and i for one will still be finding other things to play. after a good 11 years playing. one last note about the comments made by CCP Quant. It doesn't matter if we are being "whiners" or not its not a good business practice to talk about the so called "1 percent" even if it was tried to be swept under the rug. remember we paid for this game to keep running when your log in numbers where low and you did not know where this game would be going. A 10% nerf to your super is enough to make you quit? I honestly have to ask if you are even playing the game. Seriously, when was the last time you took your super out to go stomp on another alliance in a war? These things don't get used offensively as it is, this nerf is going to have very little impact in PvP because nobody uses them anyway. Hell, carriers are a bit of a rarity too, its mostly just FAX and dreads. Lets be realistic, if you are going to quit over this then you will be quitting over something else anyway. This isn't about PvP because nobody is using them unless they can guarantee their safety and it isn't about skill injectors. This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this before. Did CCP ** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, they only surprise is that it took this long.
Marcel Garsk 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:10:54 - [1965] - Quote baltec1 wrote: This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this ** before. Did CCP ** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, the only surprise is that it took this long. Yes! Carrier training was not smart idea. Much wiser idea is to undock fifty VNIs...
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18972	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:15:34 - [1966] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: baltec1 wrote: This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this ** before. Did CCP ** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, the only surprise is that it took this long. Yes! Carrier training was not smart idea. Much wiser idea is to undock fifty VNIs... Or as is my case, just the one. In hindsight I should have trained the carrier because it went on for so long I could have made bank but I expected CCP to stop the problem a lot earlier. This is way bigger than the tracking titans were when they got nerfed.
Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 221	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:21:25 - [1967] - Quote baltec1 wrote: ...this nerf is going to have very little impact in PvP because nobody uses them anyway. Hell, carriers are a bit of a rarity too, its mostly just FAX and dreads. I don't get the mentality and sentiment. You want big fat multi-billion ISK super-ships which are only good for, and only used for, PvE? If yes, I think it's sad and silly, but whatever. We have big end game ships that are only good for PvE. What a buzzkill. If no, then why aren't you supporting fixing the damn things? Isn't this going the opposite direction - nerfing them? Beyond that, isn't it stupid beyond all measure to fix their stupid problem IN THIS MANNER? We're gonna nerf an 'effing ship because of ISK? Really? Like, isn't there literally a million other things you could do to fix the problem rather than nerf an 'effing ship? - What about not letting the damn things in anoms in the first place? Wouldn't that be better? - What about changing some numbers so that the rats blast the fighters out of the sky at a much higher rate? - What about bringing back a triage module so that the damn thing has to be immobile for minutes at a time to deploy fighters to any effect? Christ man, that's three things off the top of my head IN 30 SECONDS OF THOUGHT. What could I come up with if I actually spent a little time and energy and thought about it? You mean this was the only damn solution to come up with, and you're happy with it?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6638	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:27:31 - [1968] - Quote Beast of Revelations wrote: - What about not letting the damn things in anoms in the first place? Wouldn't that be better? - What about changing some numbers so that the rats blast the fighters out of the sky at a much higher rate? - What about bringing back a triage module so that the damn thing has to be immobile for minutes at a time to deploy fighters to any effect? Fine. Fine. Uhhh...fine, I guess. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18972	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:33:20 - [1969] - Quote Beast of Revelations wrote: I don't get the mentality and sentiment. You want big fat multi-billion ISK super-ships which are only good for, and only used for, PvE? That's exactly what is happening now. Beast of Revelations wrote: If yes, I think it's sad and silly, but whatever. We have big end game ships that are only good for PvE. What a buzzkill. If no, then why aren't you supporting fixing the damn things? Isn't this going the opposite direction - nerfing them? Beyond that, isn't it stupid beyond all measure to fix their stupid problem IN THIS MANNER? We're gonna nerf an 'effing ship because of ISK? Really? Like, isn't there literally a million other things you could do to fix the problem rather than nerf an 'effing ship? Its happened a few times in the past. Tracking titans, carriers, AFKtar. Beast of Revelations wrote: - What about not letting the damn things in anoms in the first place? Wouldn't that be better? - What about changing some numbers so that the rats blast the fighters out of the sky at a much higher rate? - What about bringing back a triage module so that the damn thing has to be immobile for minutes at a time to deploy fighters to any effect? Christ man, that's three things off the top of my head IN 30 SECONDS OF THOUGHT. What could I come up with if I actually spent a little time and energy and thought about it? You mean this was the only damn solution to come up with, and you're happy with it? All of which take time, this is by are the easiest and quickest way to fix the problem in the short term. The rate at which isk was being generated means we can't wait several months for the other fixes, damage was being done and the longer we wait the more harm it does. I have been calling for PvE to be revamped for years now.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 88	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:35:58 - [1970] - Quote All through this I have been disappointed in the way CCP have handled this. From the initial hammer-blow to the lack of communication or engagement with some creative potential solutions to this issue that don't have to ruin a ship class in PVP and PVE. I cannot fly a carrier, it never particularly appealed to me, but I was very disappointed in such a massive change seemingly without producing the data that backs it up. CCP Larrikin has produced the numbers that prompted the change. I would still like to see the raw data, but CCP have absolutely no reason to lie about those numbers. 46% of bounties to ~4% of players is a good reason to nerf the income stream of Carriers. That said, not all that many people had an issue with nerfing the income stream, it was the chosen method for that nerf and the lack of communication and engagement with the community on other resolutions that seemed to be the bigger problem. CCP have taken that on board and lowered the nerf as a temporary measure whilst working on other methods of curbing the footprint of supers/carriers in ratting. Good show. They need curbing, I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that who understands economics even slightly now that we have been presented with the data, but hopefully the devs and the community can find a reasonable way to nerf the stream without destroying the ship in the process. I would still favour diminishing returns that kick in beyond a certain amount earned in a 24-hour cycle, resetting after DT. It wouldn't touch the smaller ships that can't earn close to the capacity of a carrier or super, but beyond a certain point, ratting in a carrier or super would be increasingly less efficient. Also have the side benefit of pushing people towards other activities with more risk: Exploration/PVP/Roams etc. I've said that repeatedly, and I still think it has the potential to be the best solution. It has been pointed out that it would require regular monitoring, but then so would any change, including this nerf and future nerfs/buffs so given the choice....

Marcel Garsk 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:40:48 - [1971] - Quote ^^^ OK! Provide us with you estimation about ticks drop.
Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 29	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:41:27 - [1972] - Quote sigh Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis. Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour. Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons.
James Zimmer Vogon Innovation Warped Intentions 95	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:41:41 - [1973] - Quote After 99 pages, I probably won't add too much of value, but even though I'm not a carrier pilot, I don't like this. Rather than considering what it is about carriers that makes them so awesome for ratting, and adjusting that aspect, this change simply bludgeons every aspect of carriers and makes them significantly less viable for any activity. The issue with carriers is not that they're way better than battleships at ratting; it's that they're way better without any increased risk. A ratting carrier can run an anom aligned, and for all practical purposes, leave a site the instant an enemy comes in system, which is FASTER than a BS. Sentry BSs, like Rattlesnakes, have to stay stationary to stay with their drones and Marauders have to Bastion up. Force carriers to stop (maybe through a mode that has a decently long cycle time) in order to launch/retrieve fighters, and you've gone a long way in solving the problem. The other issue is that the only viable way to hunt in enemy space is through jump/cyno mechanics, predominately BLOPS unless you don't want a ride home. The counter to hotdrops is hotdrops, and when one side can escalate with mostly stealth bombers and the other side can escalate with carriers, more often than not, the carriers win. There's some combination of intel and cyno changes that need to happen in order to reinvigorate carrier-hunting, and really non-strategic, non-BLOPS fleets in general. Living in Provi, I can tell you that half or more of people coming into our space to fight are set up as cynos for BLOPS, and I can't blame them. It's simply the most effective way to do business.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6638	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:45:55 - [1974] - Quote Mossyblog Barnes wrote: sigh Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis. Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour. Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons. The daily data is there to download and it is not good. Average amount of ISK entering the economy on a monthly basis up to November 2016 7 trillion. In May 2017, 53 trillion or about a 757% increase. Further, the first 5 days of June are showing another month with a high growth rate for ISK. Further, in looking at the daily data, after about mid April the number of days with negative ISK growth virtually disappeared, whereas before they were more frequent and of larger magnitude. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16149	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:46:41 - [1975] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: baltec1 wrote: This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this ** before. Did CCP ** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, the only surprise is that it took this long. Yes! Carrier training was not a smart idea. Much wiser idea is to undock fifty money making mini-machines called VNI... Or my one Machariel assited by an FoF/Gecko Rattlesnake. Why are people pretending that it's either "Super cap r VNI"? Just about any ship can rat.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 89	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:47:45 - [1976] - Quote Mossyblog Barnes wrote: sigh Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis. Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour. Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons. Actually, 5 days would be a fine sample to use given the number of people playing during the period. It would be over 150k people in the sample given an average 35k online in any given day, likely more over a timezone rolling period. The sample size is more than adequate to be representative within a single-digit margin of error with ease. More data would be nice, but ultimately, it'll only likely be a few percent off in either direction.
Marcel Garsk 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:51:27 - [1977] - Quote And ticks drop estimations?
Tengu Grib Angels of Max Pirate Coalition 1581	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:55:21 - [1978] - Quote I like the latest updates on what these changes will be. Can always nerf more if this doesn't fix the numbers but doesn't make it feel like they are just getting murdered. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16150	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:56:26 - [1979] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mossyblog Barnes wrote: sigh Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis. Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour. Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons. The daily data is there to download and it is not good. Average amount of ISK entering the economy on a monthly basis up to November 2016 7 trillion. In May 2017, 53 trillion or about a 757% increase. Further, the first 5 days of June are showing another month with a high growth rate for ISK. Further, in looking at the daily data, after about mid April the number of days with negative ISK growth virtually disappeared, whereas before they were more frequent and of larger magnitude. Poor Teckos with his "Facts" and "reason" lol. My buddy Malcanis once told me something (a saying by a dead politician) that applies here: "It is hard to get someone to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it".
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 3197	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:57:30 - [1980] - Quote PenguinBacon wrote: I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion! Per Quant's 2015 presentation 1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income May 2017th Income is 9.92T. This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%. So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant. We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income. To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character. note the incursion stats are for a whole month, the stats larrikin posted cover 5 days. so assuming a 30 day month we have roughly: 1.7% making 9.9T/month running incursions 1.4% making 13.8T/month running anoms with supers furthermore the 1.7% is 1.7% of the player base, where 1.4% is the 1.4% of those who earned bounties which will be less than 1.4% of the player base. @ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Ezio Sotken nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two 25	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:57:50 - [1981] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: baltec1 wrote: This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this ** before. Did CCP ** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, the only surprise is that it took this long. Yes! Carrier training was not a smart idea. Much wiser idea is to undock fifty money making mini-machines called VNI... Just retrain into a fax, you will be loved by your cap buddies.
Johnathan Hubble State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 22:57:59 - [1982] - Quote Could you show all data for the mots popular ratting ships including the rattle the machariel ishtar etc? also clarify what they mean by T1cruiser are VNIs included? this data set doesn't tell us enough to make a real opinion nor does it tell them enough to commit to anything. ccp if you could be so kind as to expand your public data set to include the top 10 bounty earning ships in order from most isk earned on average per month to least it might go a ways to helping clear some stuff up. if your not willing to do that because you noticed the data does not match what you thought may i recommend spending a bit more time researching this before committing to anything?
KIller Wabbit MEME Thoughts 1003	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:01:29 - [1983] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: And the implication is that all the data is wrong too. All of it. Every MER. And that everyone at CCP are drooling morons who can't write queries and do basic arithmetic. I just heard a podcast where it was stated that they have been trying to correct CCP's data for a long time. Apparently, it has been wrong or incorrectly interpreted.
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 89	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:01:40 - [1984] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: And ticks drop estimations? It's hard to estimate that from either the damage nerf or the other changes proposed. If it were a straight linear relationship, then 10% nerf to DPS would result in a 10% tick drop, but there are many factors that would affect your ticks so it's very difficult to accurately predict that. Same for the supers change. If you want a number, then circa 10% for Carriers or circa 20% for supers, which will probably average to somewhere around 10% drop in the total stream (46% of bounties going to carriers/supers with a weighting in favour of supers of somewhere close to larrikin's suggestions). Those numbers are roughly worked out in my head at close to midnight, I cannot be bothered to do them properly on a calculator but they won't be all that far off either. But then again, this is all speculation and the actual numbers could be higher or lower than this depending on how much the DPS interacts with tank etc etc etc.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18975	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:03:39 - [1985] - Quote Johnathan Hubble wrote: Could you show all data for the mots popular ratting ships including the rattle the machariel ishtar etc? also clarify what they mean by T1cruiser are VNIs included? this data set doesn't tell us enough to make a real opinion nor does it tell them enough to commit to anything. Yes VNI are counted as T1 cruisers in stats, always have been. This is more than enough data to see the problem. Johnathan Hubble wrote: ccp if you could be so kind as to expand your public data set to include the top 10 bounty earning ships in order from most isk earned on average per month to least it might go a ways to helping clear some stuff up. What exactly would this add? They listed the relevant data from supers, carriers and the next most popular ship class for ratting T1 cruisers. Johnathan Hubble wrote: if your not willing to do that because you noticed the data does not match what you thought may i recommend spending a bit more time researching this before committing to anything? Stop grasping for straws.
Stevo patriot Almost Dangerous Stranger Danger. 3	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:09:51 - [1986] - Quote so i know im late to the party but heres my two cents. ive seen your concorde battleship gets a bounty & payout bonus based on sec status... if as the data suggests supers are taking a disproportionate part of the bounty pool by ooooh lets say your first iteration of 30%..... why can you not just add a bounty payout reduction to that hull????? this will leave the weapons alone to be used in pvp and not nerf citadels un warranted. i mean...... it makes sense to me that if you want to nerf bounties due to certain ships you nerd the payout to those ships. not the weapons they use, especially when their used on other not connected structures
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18975	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:14:28 - [1987] - Quote Stevo patriot wrote: so i know im late to the party but heres my two cents. ive seen your concorde battleship gets a bounty & payout bonus based on sec status... if as the data suggests supers are taking a disproportionate part of the bounty pool by ooooh lets say your first iteration of 30%..... why can you not just add a bounty payout reduction to that hull????? this will leave the weapons alone to be used in pvp and not nerf citadels un warranted. i mean...... it makes sense to me that if you want to nerf bounties due to certain ships you nerd the payout to those ships. not the weapons they use, especially when their used on other not connected structures It is likely a thing tied to sec status so cant work on supers and carriers in the way you want.
Johnathan Hubble State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:14:47 - [1988] - Quote they didn't say that here they should have and honestly they want us to see their side they need to show all the facts not just part. i mean rough figures is this going to get them their desired changes or will it help a little and then the trend continue for reasons not related to this particular nerf i don't care what they do if i don't like it i don't have to play(not a rage quit just being honest) but they do have to stick with the game as its their jobs and if they don't have the patients to fully research issues to their core then maybe they need more assistance?
MONTYJOHN rock shot industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx 14	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:15:50 - [1989] - Quote i know a lot are still unhappy with the changes coming but im glad at least, cpp took the time to read through the comments and decided to heed some of the backlash shown and make a reasonable compromise with the nerf
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18975	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:19:35 - [1990] - Quote Johnathan Hubble wrote: they didn't say that here they should have and honestly they want us to see their side they need to show all the facts not just part. i mean rough figures is this going to get them their desired changes or will it help a little and then the trend continue for reasons not related to this particular nerf i don't care what they do if i don't like it i don't have to play(not a rage quit just being honest) but they do have to stick with the game as its their jobs and if they don't have the patients to fully research issues to their core then maybe they need more assistance? How exactly would knowing what T1 haulers are making in bounties help?

Marcel Garsk 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:23:57 - [1991] - Quote Cismet wrote: Marcel Garsk wrote: And ticks drop estimations? It's hard to estimate that from either the damage nerf or the other changes proposed. If it were a straight linear relationship, then 10% nerf to DPS would result in a 10% tick drop, but there are many factors that would affect your ticks so it's very difficult to accurately predict that. Same for the supers change. If you want a number, then circa 10% for Carriers or circa 20% for supers, which will probably average to somewhere around 10% drop in the total stream (46% of bounties going to carriers/supers with a weighting in favour of supers of somewhere close to larrikin's suggestions). Those numbers are roughly worked out in my head at close to midnight, I cannot be bothered to do them properly on a calculator but they won't be all that far off either. But then again, this is all speculation and the actual numbers could be higher or lower than this depending on how much the DPS interacts with tank etc etc etc. Good to know. I can compensate this using T2 fighters as a standard and 4x faction DDAs. Fit will be more expensive but dps will remain almost the same. Well, just over 50 mil ticks are acceptable to me.
Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 223	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:28:28 - [1992] - Quote Quit talking about CCP's stupid statistics and numbers. IT DOESN'T 'EFFING MATTER. Whether right or wrong, whether the amount of ISK is 500X more than what they think it is, or 500X less, it doesn't 'effing matter. YOU DON'T FIX THE DAMN ECONOMY BY NERFING A SHIP IN PVP. PERIOD.
Johnathan Hubble State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:28:44 - [1993] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Johnathan Hubble wrote: they didn't say that here they should have and honestly they want us to see their side they need to show all the facts not just part. i mean rough figures is this going to get them their desired changes or will it help a little and then the trend continue for reasons not related to this particular nerf i don't care what they do if i don't like it i don't have to play(not a rage quit just being honest) but they do have to stick with the game as its their jobs and if they don't have the patients to fully research issues to their core then maybe they need more assistance? How exactly would knowing what T1 haulers are making in bounties help? i did say top ten ships didnt i? also all facts are better then cherry picked facts even my own so you know more is better? P.S. correction yea that post did encompass more my bad
Radious Servasse Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 146	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:33:22 - [1994] - Quote I still don't think nerfing carriers by itself is the best idea. If carrier's damage is nerfed, then the cost to build carriers should be reduced alot as well. By doing this, not only will you solve the Isk oversupply problem, people would be more willing to drop and loose carriers thus creating more PvP and will increase indy activities as a whole. Just my thoughts.
Johnathan Hubble State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:36:33 - [1995] - Quote also what is to stop players from just moving to the next ship down efficiency? i mean lower amount of isk but not by much and hey maybe they add some afkable ships to the mix yes ccp income goes up but plex gets inflated even more(arguably more of a problem for us) and the isk generation number doesnt go to the lower curve they want so im really not understanding their goals and expectations players will adapt count on it
Blitz Hacker Serious About Space Things. Test Alliance Please Ignore 17	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:43:49 - [1996] - Quote Realistically what will happen is this: I want/need to make 1.5 billion isk a day.. getting (sorry I'm lame) 120 mil ticks max, which is 360mil /hr atm pre nerf. I would have to rat approx 4.1 hours to get 1.5 billion. Assuming it drops my ticks to 100 mil per tick. (300mil/hr) that means I have to rat approx 5 hours. End result. I'm still getting my 1.5 bil I wanted. I just have to rat another hour. The isk problem you speak of isn't changed by nerfing income. Unlike a rorq/barge where you can mine long periods of time and multi box it.. carrier/super ratting doesn't scale. I'm concerned that they will continue to nerf and I will struggle to make similar income, which I will .. one way or another. Effectivley making my play experience more grindy and miserable.
Marcel Garsk 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:48:53 - [1997] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Why is it unsustainable? Well, our present real world economy looks exactly like this! Eight richest people on Earth owns more money than half of humanity taken together and there is no end of the world in sight. Come on Larrkin! That's the reality you try to remove from EVE acting like Lenin before...
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1393	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:49:38 - [1998] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: Cismet wrote: Marcel Garsk wrote: And ticks drop estimations? It's hard to estimate that from either the damage nerf or the other changes proposed. If it were a straight linear relationship, then 10% nerf to DPS would result in a 10% tick drop, but there are many factors that would affect your ticks so it's very difficult to accurately predict that. Same for the supers change. If you want a number, then circa 10% for Carriers or circa 20% for supers, which will probably average to somewhere around 10% drop in the total stream (46% of bounties going to carriers/supers with a weighting in favour of supers of somewhere close to larrikin's suggestions). Those numbers are roughly worked out in my head at close to midnight, I cannot be bothered to do them properly on a calculator but they won't be all that far off either. But then again, this is all speculation and the actual numbers could be higher or lower than this depending on how much the DPS interacts with tank etc etc etc. Good to know! I can compensate this using T2 fighters as a standard along with 4x faction DDAs. Fit will be more expensive but dps will remain almost the same. Well, just over 50 mil ticks are acceptable to me - to cover my PvP needs and keep going in null. WOW! 100 pages long thread! WOW! Don't forget to add in the increased chance of losing fighters. Lose one fighter you've done that anom for a profit of around 20 mil. And then there's; Quote: We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. Like reducing damage and increasing the chance of losing fighters isn't enough.,. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Alekseyev Karrde Capitalist Army New Eden Trading Company. 1782	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:50:46 - [1999] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Justified changes but they miss the key point. All PVE rewards were balanced against player and ship power in the ~2010 era. Player ships have been 'rebalanced' multiple times since then. Almost all of these changes have been significant power increases. Level 5 missions and 10/10 sites used to be nontrivial fleet sites, now they are readily soloed. The key to addressing this balance issue is to increase the combat capabilities of NPCs in line with the increases player ship power has experienced. This is a great point I hadn't considered. Even rigs was a big change. My Domi used to struggle in some lvl 4s but the same fit w rigs is a snoozefest. Quoting for signal boost. Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Marcel Garsk 2	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:54:09 - [2000] - Quote ^^^ They remove +15% npc aggro from patch.

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6638	Posted - 2017.06.12 23:55:54 - [2001] - Quote KIller Wabbit wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: And the implication is that all the data is wrong too. All of it. Every MER. And that everyone at CCP are drooling morons who can't write queries and do basic arithmetic. I just heard a podcast where it was stated that they have been trying to correct CCP's data for a long time. Apparently, it has been wrong or incorrectly interpreted. Source? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Shampka 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:01:00 - [2002] - Quote You should rebalance NPC content and create Incentives for PVP... Damage balancing is OK to a point, but we don't want Lame ships. Deadly ships are good. Perhaps we should make ships more deadly. The community's reaction to generally dislike this change I think is ultimately right. Surely, there's no way your in game character represents anything about your real life self.
Keno Skir 1658	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:05:32 - [2003] - Quote Fair play on the revision CCP, it was touch and go for a second there. +1 Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.- 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Marcel Garsk 4	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:07:36 - [2004] - Quote Anyway CCP should understand I wanna fly second dread and skill injectors got more expensive lately. PS. I hate VNI!
Pikuni Ksikkihkini Absolute Massive Destruction Initiative Mercenaries 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:16:39 - [2005] - Quote CCP , you are the authors of your own demise, so many people are quitting, it's awesome...Fucktards hahaha!
Aleverette Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 23	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:25:05 - [2006] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. What about smartbombing? Could you show us the amount of isk generated by navy bs?
Miner Hottie No Vacancies No Vacancies. 184	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:36:49 - [2007] - Quote So instead of nerfing the ** out of carriers even more (they are garbage in WH space now, good for rolling holes) and supers, why don't you add some escalations to k-space anoms that spawn a bunch of elite battleships and cruisers with a disgusting amount of EHP, a nominal bounty and prevent the site despawning until cleared? That way your turbo ratting supers have to finish off before spawning the next sanctum or haven and are slowed down, lowering their ticks. Also, can you un** the upgraded avengers, they suck. It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 212	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:37:10 - [2008] - Quote Aleverette wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. What about smartbombing? Could you show us the amount of isk generated by navy bs? Smartbomb ratting can be done in T1 battleships, navy battleships, and pirate battleships. Those can also rat in other ways, so the data would have to be filtered by what weapon(s) were used.
Captain Torlek Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 2	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:43:37 - [2009] - Quote hi CCP larkin as a supercarrier pilot i would like to propose a different method to fixing this. the method that seems to have been favoured is to reduce the overall rewards. has it been considered to increase the risk of using carriers and supercarriers for this purpose? often these ships are alone and have little support. the problem is catching them due to the supercarriers being (if fit correctly) able to align and warp sub 10 seconds (mine does 7.5) if supercarriers started to die every day from ratting this would encourage larger alliances to have to defend these carriers. while maintaining the reward for the person willing to take the risk. what i'm saying let the players balance things like this for you, while encouraging combat. we can also all get some dank killmails while we are at it :)
Sapphire Voice Higher Than Everest The-Culture 5	Posted - 2017.06.13 00:47:27 - [2010] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. WHAT ?????? Are -âou serious???? CARRIERS TOO EFFECTIVE IN PvP ????? AHAHAH !!!!! Who are you man? Are you even play this game at all? Who is that primary idiot who suppose to eat this kind "answer" ? REDUCE THE DAMN BOUNTY FOR F SAKE!!!! HOW LONG WE SHOULD TELL YOU THIS !!! ????

Beast of Revelations Hedion University Amarr Empire 224	Posted - 2017.06.13 01:04:18 - [2011] - Quote Miner Hottie wrote: So instead of nerfing the ** out of carriers even more (they are garbage in WH space now, good for rolling holes) and supers, why don't you add some escalations to k-space anoms that spawn a bunch of elite battleships and cruisers with a disgusting amount of EHP, a nominal bounty and prevent the site despawning until cleared? That way your turbo ratting supers have to finish off before spawning the next sanctum or haven and are slowed down, lowering their ticks. Because that would require too much common sense, that's why. I mean, why directly target and correct the actual problem when you can, I dunno, nerf PvP instead? Sapphire Voice wrote:** WHAT ?????? Are -âou serious???? CARRIERS TOO EFFECTIVE IN PvP ????? AHAHAH !!!!! Who are you man? Are you even play this game at all? Who is that primary idiot who suppose to eat this kind "answer" ? REDUCE THE DAMN BOUNTY FOR F SAKE!!!! HOW LONG WE SHOULD TELL YOU THIS !!! ???? Yeah I know HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!! That one was rich wasn't it? Good one! CCP tried to inoculate against the outrage by claiming that secondarily the things are too good in PvP :) baltec1 stated up there somewhere that the things aren't even used in PvP HA HA HA!
Creecher Virpio Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 32	Posted - 2017.06.13 01:04:22 - [2012] - Quote WE REVISED OUR CHANGES! even though we didnt actually listen to you at all or actually listen to the reason that youre actually upset. what a slap in the face.
sakpuncher Angry Rock Killers Inc. Serrice Council. 5	Posted - 2017.06.13 01:10:14 - [2013] - Quote its not enough. your punishing the entire community for the actions (as you stated yourself) less then 5% of the community (combined carriers and supers) ive been working to carrier and rorqual as my end game ever sence i came back. it remains a slap in the face. you want to fix it nerf the issue at heart and put a timer on the respawn of anoms. that will stop the issue more focused at this one group of people then us smaller guys that dont have a million people doing it 24/7 in the same area. ill stay unsubbed thankyou very much
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.13 01:28:16 - [2014] - Quote Going to scrub this thread down. Watch a video while you wait. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrLequ6dUdM&feature=youtu.be ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Squirtle 007 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 01:49:56 - [2015] - Quote CCP, You should also be notified that bombing site for PVE in delve should also be nerf... e.g. A mach fitted with 8 smart bombs and 3 mach can easily finish a haven in 4 mins.....
Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 30	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:01:59 - [2016] - Quote Cismet wrote: Mossyblog Barnes wrote: sigh Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis. Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour. Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons. Actually, 5 days would be a fine sample to use given the number of people playing during the period. It would be over 150k people in the sample given an average 35k online in any given day, likely more over a timezone rolling period. The sample size is more than adequate to be representative within a single-digit margin of error with ease. More data would be nice, but ultimately, it'll only likely be a few percent off in either direction. This implies the data has stability and equates to a consistent median behaviour... .. which...we all can surely see is not the case?
Voice fromthe Abyss The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:17:41 - [2017] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. On review of the numbers above and in the graphs supplied it seems clear to me that this is an over reaction to a spike which if you review the charts has happened previously (see November - December 2016). If you take a long view the personal wealth in game has been steadily growing at a rate of around 20T every 2 years. Since March 2016 (just over a year ago) the growth has been 10-11T (even including this spike) or about half of the growth that occurred over the previous 2 two year periods mentioned above and this growth has not previously be viewed as bad or needing to be arrested. So the big question is why the sudden need to arrest isk generation? Why are we not waiting to see if after a couple of months we have another decrease in wealth as occurred after December 2016? These are the questions that the above announcement does not make clear and from my point of view. The percentages of pilots generating the isk from my point of view lines up with what I would expect based on the investment cost of the ships being flown. I would expect that if 1.4% of the player base is generating 2T isk that it would take 3-4 times the number of carrier pilots to generate the same amount of isk and likewise it would take 3-4 times the number of cruiser pilots to generate the amount of isk a carrier pilot does. These proportions don't look wrong to me. As such I am left with the view that CCP don't want players that invest significantly more to be able to earn significantly more from ratting which really does not make much sense to me. I know that the would be economists will likely howl me down saying that I just don't understand and that may be true but before you do that give me some answers to my above questions, explain why a blip that has not yet impacted on the 2-5 year average increase in wealth is a bad thing that needs a tune up right now before we see if it is a continuing trend? Typically economics is supposed to take a longer term view rather than reacting to short term dips or blips. Given that the current long term personal wealth trend remains within average historical parameters I think this is a knee jerk reaction to a very short term trend that really should be allowed to play out for a little longer before CCP rush in to make a change.
Zhul Chembull Booze and Blues inc. The Bastion 124	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:20:14 - [2018] - Quote I have left your game after 14 years, I just cant stomach these updates anymore.
icedragon2072 Crayven Corp. Army of New Eden 4	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:20:51 - [2019] - Quote So lets forget to add in the rattlesnakes, and Ishtars..and other ratting ships..along with forgetting about how much the incursions bring in..
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4023	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:28:12 - [2020] - Quote icedragon2072 wrote: So lets forget to add in the rattlesnakes, and Ishtars..and other ratting ships..along with forgetting about how much the incursions bring in.. The answer is a LOT less. Every single other ship type in the game (excluding T1 cruisers) accounts for less bounty income than carriers & super carriers combined. And incursion income (including the almost full time low sec incursion group) is as of May 14% of the total bounty income. So less than carriers on their own bring in (Not counting commodities sold to NPC's which is also more than 50% from Null & the Null share is larger than the entire income from incursions) Stop trying to deflect when you obviously haven't even read the numbers and done very basic maths on them.

Diuma ACKO Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:40:00 - [2021] - Quote regarding your post about why caps are getting 50 percent of bunties. I live in drone region. every one runs hordes in caps. new peoepl to eve can not run portabls or hordes. worse is there is only one sqad in system. where would a new person to alliance go anyways to run anoms in t1 hull and not get blown up by npc caps. ? where there are 15 hordes 16 portals and one sqaud in system can you not crest more anoms types/ some anoms that caps can run some that only sub caps can run in nullsec. .I mean creat content please do some work. then just nerf hammer.
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:43:22 - [2022] - Quote Thank you for listening, even if just somewhat. By doing so you've encouraged me to invest more in your game.
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1909	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:45:00 - [2023] - Quote Quitting post removed. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 9	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:49:38 - [2024] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. And i don't want my Carrier nerfed into the ground, but we can't all have what we want. There has been a multitude of suggestions from bounty nerfs to the hulls, the anoms, diminishing returns / fatigue, isk pool to draw from, even something like an ESS effect, flat out reducing bounties in certain systems. The higher your index, the lower your bounty, leaving systems to rat in rather undefended, making them more attractive targets. Also, the percentual reduction in bounties is already there, you coded it. I bet it could be adapted rather easily. Or even just increase fighter weapon cycle times. Reduces DPS, but let's you keep the moment of just flat out volleying an NPC off grid. Do not underestimate that psychological satisfaction to be able to do that. If this damage nerf gets reverted and some actually good change is implemented, a lot of people will be, let's just say, less "passionate" as it was put. Understandably, CCP needs time to go through options offered by players. All of which would have been offered if you just simply asked for it. There can not be a single argument made that fighter damage had to be nerfed RIGHT THERE AND THEN to keep the economy alive. This could have just as easily be pushed to the next patch while having a serious and calm discussion on the topic, so you didn't have to sift through 100 pages of which arguably a few were quite emotional rather than rational, which in turn just delays the solution to the underlying problem even more, diverts resources and makes players and community managers alike quite unhappy. Keep an open discussion on this. Give us information on the topics. CCP has what, 600 employees? You have a playerbase over easily 50'000 people. You can crowdsource for ideas within the community. Why would you not tap into such a massive amount of ideas and manhours of worktime? Got most off my chest now. o/
Spurty 1683	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:57:39 - [2025] - Quote Why haven't you used your data to decide: "We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors" Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Commander Spurty 1683	Posted - 2017.06.13 02:57:39 - [2026] - Quote Why haven't you used your data to decide: "We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors" Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Random Lurker Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:08:56 - [2027] - Quote great changes! keep up the great work.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4023	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:12:33 - [2028] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: Why haven't you used your data to decide: "We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors" Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. That path leadeth to thine themepark Mechanically you have two options. An arbitrary total ratting limit. Which means everyone who isn't a super gets nerfed too. Or an arbitrary per pilot limit. Which forces multi-characters on the same account (to keep costs down) to bypass it, & makes no sense in a sandbox. Neither are viable solutions.
lexa21 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 41	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:18:00 - [2029] - Quote Good changes
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3196	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:35:52 - [2030] - Quote icedragon2072 wrote: So lets forget to add in the rattlesnakes, and Ishtars..and other ratting ships..along with forgetting about how much the incursions bring in.. They know how much incursions bring in, and it's a fraction of ratting. It's also a stable amount that hasn't grown wildly out of control in recent months, unlike ratting. And, what is it that you folks aren't understanding about this? They told us in the update today where 65.6% of the bounties are coming from: Carriers, Supers, and T1 cruisers. That leaves 34.4% of the bounties for everything else. "B..b..but what about the (ANY OTHER SHIP OR RATTING TACTIC HERE)?!?!" Yeah, it's in that 34.4% along with every other ship. That includes the bounties for every Ishtar, every smartbombing BS, every mission running machariel, every marauder, every rattlesnake, every T3, and so on. You can stop asking the question because you already know the answer is, "Less than those 3 groups." "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 30	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:40:35 - [2031] - Quote @CCP Larrikin, I can see you're stating to take a long term view and like all economies you pull the leaver that shudders the most vs one big leaver that fixes all. However, taking the temperature of Delve and declaring all of Eve a risk is where the logic falls short. Cumualtive sure the data trends upwards but the rate of logins trend downwards and i'd wager the kill/death ratio(s) also have a different story (haven't downloaded the entirity of the data set as yet). Capping the main sources of ISK will slow total wealth and achieve the goal you're attempting to do in terms of reduce the wealth overall, however you lose accounts as a result and / or the attractors to new customer acquisition also takes a hit. The trade off is where all of this simply falls short. CCP takes away but what does it provide in return? how does this wealth get redirected? Why is Delve so high? The duking of stats serves no purpose but to fuel further negativity.
Eric Lemmonte F-I-N-K Industry The Volition Cult 3	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:43:42 - [2032] - Quote I like how we all are punished because of goons' unchallenged ratting. Top 10 regions for bounties. Delve8.76918E+1212.14% Deklein4.46455E+126.18% Branch3.11909E+124.32% Cobalt Edge2.96567E+124.11% Outer Passage2.66506E+123.69% Querious2.6635E+123.69% Feythabolis2.60413E+123.61% Period Basis2.46879E+123.42% Providence2.45647E+123.40% Esoteria2.37196E+123.28%
Valaba Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 7	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:45:13 - [2033] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: lolzz Quekz wrote: Now imagine all those carriers training say 15 alts he can basically take over 1/2 or all the anoms in a system and afk rat.. hot dropper tackles one of his afktars.. 14 other afktars warp to him whats the trade out of that fight? Basically if he cant fight back that drop he can just warp out his non tackled afktars loss is still lower than a tackled carrier. But still makes a ton of profit from that afk session balanced? Yea! Cos ccp wins the wallet war! And whos the one who loses? The players And you know, almost none of them will do it, because it's a lot of work, and if they were going to do it they would have been doing it three years ago already. So yeah, not worried about a sudden spike in Ishtars or anything like that actually happening. Not only that, but with his one carrier he was likely able to PLEX his account. With 16 accounts he'll have to actually open his wallet to fund those 16 accounts. Yes, I will base my argument against this change on players having infinite wealth! which is the base of my point this whole nerf-ing is only benefitting CCP does it really benefit the economy? i doubt so its the same as how some miners run like 10 accounts is it hard work? it might be cause its a little more complicated than afktars who warp in orbit and drop drones but ccp think its alright since they plex that 10 accounts right? but if you make that same amount in a single account.. no bro.. its not good for us we need more people plex-ing or subbing accounts Nobody is going to go from a PLEXed carrier to 16 accounts subbed with RL money. If anything the rage here would indicate that CCP is going to come out on the losing end assuming the threats to quit are indeed real. And to be clear, these people threatening to quit...if they are doing so because of their loss of ratting income, well they are short sighted fools who do not realize that if this kind of growth in ISK is sustained it will ruin the game for everyone. Edit: To be clear, a miner running 10 accounts and mining on all of them is not anywhere near as bad for the economy as this massive increase in the growth of ISK. The miner is actually adding "real" goods to the economy (real in the sense of an actual good in the economy--i.e. minerals). The addition of ISK on the other had is a nominal change. And when that nominal change is too large (or too small--i.e. negative) it can be bad for the economy. In the case of a large increase you can get inflation. In the case of a decrease you can get deflation. Both can be bad. Inflation reduces every player's purchasing power. If players try to "keep up" they'll just add to the problem--i.e. a positive feed back loop leading to inflation spiraling out of control. When deflation occurs if it is large enough it will depress real economic activity. Why should I mine if the purchasing power of my ISK goes up 20% each month. I'll just spend as little ISK is possible and in 4 months I'll have "doubled" my purchasing power. And there are RL historical examples of this. And yes, the in game economy works very much like a RL economy and it almost always conforms to what economic theory would suggest. When something becomes relatively more scarce; the price goes up. When unlimited industry slots in stations were implemented prices went down for many goods as would be expected. The in game economy is not special exemption from the laws of economics. Maybe the solution CCP is going to implement is bad in that it does reduce the PvP capability of carriers and supers, and that will adversely effect players who do not use their carriers/supers for ratting. But somehow the use of carriers and supers to inject this much ISK into the game absolutely had to change. Anyone saying otherwise is a totally daft idiot who probably has somebody following them around reminding them to breath. You talk too much. Get a life dude. Rediculous number of posts whining about players with carriers.
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 207	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:56:02 - [2034] - Quote With the new changes I must ask why the NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) That was probably the most sensible change there in and the one that no one was complaining about. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 30	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:57:08 - [2035] - Quote Eric Lemmonte wrote: I like how we all are punished because of goons' unchallenged ratting. Top 10 regions for bounties. Delve8.76918E+1212.14% Deklein4.46455E+126.18% Branch3.11909E+124.32% Cobalt Edge2.96567E+124.11% Outer Passage2.66506E+123.69% Querious2.6635E+123.69% Feythabolis2.60413E+123.61% Period Basis2.46879E+123.42% Providence2.45647E+123.40% Esoteria2.37196E+123.28% Ermm.. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/1_regional.stats.png Let me know if you see anything that sticks out? :)
Jo Kiyoko Perkone Caldari State 22	Posted - 2017.06.13 03:59:58 - [2036] - Quote This demonstrates a new face from developers who can't commit to an announcement, and then lie and cave in to intimidation from its players, with a company with dwindling integrity can we trust CCP anymore these days?
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 212	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:12:01 - [2037] - Quote Jo Kiyoko wrote: This demonstrates a new face from developers who can't commit to an announcement, and then lie and cave in to intimidation from its players, with a company with dwindling integrity can we trust CCP anymore these days? So you would rather CCP not listen to players at all than only listen when there's enough outrage that hundreds of players are quitting?
Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 31	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:15:49 - [2038] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Jo Kiyoko wrote: This demonstrates a new face from developers who can't commit to an announcement, and then lie and cave in to intimidation from its players, with a company with dwindling integrity can we trust CCP anymore these days? So you would rather CCP not listen to players at all than only listen when there's enough outrage that hundreds of players are quitting? Yes? this isn't open source and we're not all contributing to the code base.. This is a send and recieve dialogue. I'd rather they hold back, regroup, find their footing and bring it back to some old skool release management protocols. Here is 10 bad news items and here are 5 good news ones... Version xxx deployed. At the same time spend all their energy evangelising the changes and where its next heading and why (in-game events, economy slowdowns, breaking back of corporate monopolies etc etc).
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6644	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:16:04 - [2039] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Jo Kiyoko wrote: This demonstrates a new face from developers who can't commit to an announcement, and then lie and cave in to intimidation from its players, with a company with dwindling integrity can we trust CCP anymore these days? So you would rather CCP not listen to players at all than only listen when there's enough outrage that hundreds of players are quitting? Self-centered entitled players who are screaming about their isk stream being nerfed should never ever be listened too. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6644	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:19:53 - [2040] - Quote Valaba wrote: You talk too much. Get a life dude. Rediculous number of posts whining about players with carriers. And you are a self centered man child who should have grown up long ago. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Onjine Anekuro Ichura Survey Service 4	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:20:27 - [2041] - Quote I wonder how much even the original changes would impact the problem here. If you reduce carrier damage by 20%, and assuming that translates to a net loss of 10% in bounty income factoring in travel time, etc., it would go from 2.3T to 2.07 for Supercarriers and 2.6T to 2.34T for Carriers.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6644	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:20:44 - [2042] - Quote Eric Lemmonte wrote: I like how we all are punished because of goons' unchallenged ratting. Top 10 regions for bounties. Delve8.76918E+1212.14% Deklein4.46455E+126.18% Branch3.11909E+124.32% Cobalt Edge2.96567E+124.11% Outer Passage2.66506E+123.69% Querious2.6635E+123.69% Feythabolis2.60413E+123.61% Period Basis2.46879E+123.42% Providence2.45647E+123.40% Esoteria2.37196E+123.28% Yes, because 44 trillion ISK entering the economy would not have been a problem at all. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6644	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:23:32 - [2043] - Quote Mossyblog Barnes wrote: @CCP Larrikin, I can see you're stating to take a long term view and like all economies you pull the leaver that shudders the most vs one big leaver that fixes all. However, taking the temperature of Delve and declaring all of Eve a risk is where the logic falls short. Cumualtive sure the data trends upwards but the rate of logins trend downwards and i'd wager the kill/death ratio(s) also have a different story (haven't downloaded the entirity of the data set as yet). Capping the main sources of ISK will slow total wealth and achieve the goal you're attempting to do in terms of reduce the wealth overall, however you lose accounts as a result and / or the attractors to new customer acquisition also takes a hit. The trade off is where all of this simply falls short. CCP takes away but what does it provide in return? how does this wealth get redirected? Why is Delve so high? The duking of stats serves no purpose but to fuel further negativity. Until you treat the root cause all you're doing is essentially reminding players that the games "rules" are always subject to change which in turn also generates further anxiety about adoption. Imagine if i kept changing the SDK/Frameworks languages you use to build the game? Inflation destroys wealth on the whole, it does not create it. And even if ratting in Delve was completely and totally stopped by CCP there would still be too much ISK entering the economy. This is a little bit too much, this a huge ginormous amount of too much ISK entering the economy. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:33:24 - [2044] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: Why haven't you used your data to decide: "We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors" Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. This idea is actually the best, since it's possible certain alliances are using their regions much more than others. I'd rather see this happen, than buffs to the actual rats.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4025	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:37:32 - [2045] - Quote Jang Taredi wrote: This idea is actually the best, since it's possible certain alliances are using their regions much more than others. I'd rather see this happen, than buffs to the actual rats. See last page for my reply on why it's actually a terrible idea, and both doesn't work and harms the wrong people.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6645	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:43:21 - [2046] - Quote Mossyblog Barnes wrote: Cismet wrote: Mossyblog Barnes wrote: sigh Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis. Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour. Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons. Actually, 5 days would be a fine sample to use given the number of people playing during the period. It would be over 150k people in the sample given an average 35k online in any given day, likely more over a timezone rolling period. The sample size is more than adequate to be representative within a single-digit margin of error with ease. More data would be nice, but ultimately, it'll only likely be a few percent off in either direction. This implies the data has stability and equates to a consistent median behaviour... .. which...we all can surely see is not the case? We can see this because....? And actually PCU is an instantaneous measure, the actual number of players who have logged in during a given day would be larger than the peak PCU number. For example, to see this, imagine we have just 2 hours and in hour 1 30,000 players log in. In hour 2 15,000 players log in. What is the number of unique players who logged in? A number between 30,000 and 45,000 (including the end points). "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 208	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:44:20 - [2047] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mossyblog Barnes wrote: @CCP Larrikin, I can see you're stating to take a long term view and like all economies you pull the leaver that shudders the most vs one big leaver that fixes all. However, taking the temperature of Delve and declaring all of Eve a risk is where the logic falls short. Cumualtive sure the data trends upwards but the rate of logins trend downwards and i'd wager the kill/death ratio(s) also have a different story (haven't downloaded the entirity of the data set as yet). Capping the main sources of ISK will slow total wealth and achieve the goal you're attempting to do in terms of reduce the wealth overall, however you lose accounts as a result and / or the attractors to new customer acquisition also takes a hit. The trade off is where all of this simply falls short. CCP takes away but what does it provide in return? how does this wealth get redirected? Why is Delve so high? The duking of stats serves no purpose but to fuel further negativity. Until you treat the root cause all you're doing is essentially reminding players that the games "rules" are always subject to change which in turn also generates further anxiety about adoption. Imagine if i kept changing the SDK/Frameworks languages you use to build the game? Inflation destroys wealth on the whole, it does not create it. And even if ratting in Delve was completely and totally stopped by CCP there would still be too much ISK entering the economy. This is a little bit too much, this a huge ginormous amount of too much ISK entering the economy. In this case where 2 regions are creating the inflation, it means that while they suffer a minor amount from the inflation, the rest of the game suffers a lot more. You know business as usual in EvE. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Commander Cain Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:46:14 - [2048] - Quote 102 pages with 20 posts per page. Let's round that to 2000 of your paying customers say this is a terrible idea. Why do you even post stuff like this. You don't listen to what your players want. CCP is always looking for a easy way out. Why do we have a CSM? If these changes are being approved by these people CSM elections need to be changed too. But that's a different day It almost seems like you want to weed out older generations of your customers. Who are the most loyal. New players coming in on alpha accounts don't know how we are screwing over our players who over months, years and on yeah A DECADE. They are still dreaming a about capitals and making isk. It won't be until they spend hundreads of dollars and subscriptions and plex will they learn that everything they waited and paid for will be neutered. Don't do this. Fix high sec. stop picking on the players who have devoted the most time and money to your business.
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 640	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:54:18 - [2049] - Quote This reminds me of articles in the past that suggested making things more lucrative for carebears would create more opportunities for hunters. So instead of trying to solve the problem with fixes that try to get people to quit playing the game, how about fixes that make it easier to gank the super PVE'rs?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6648	Posted - 2017.06.13 04:58:43 - [2050] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Mossyblog Barnes wrote: @CCP Larrikin, I can see you're stating to take a long term view and like all economies you pull the leaver that shudders the most vs one big leaver that fixes all. However, taking the temperature of Delve and declaring all of Eve a risk is where the logic falls short. Cumualtive sure the data trends upwards but the rate of logins trend downwards and i'd wager the kill/death ratio(s) also have a different story (haven't downloaded the entirity of the data set as yet). Capping the main sources of ISK will slow total wealth and achieve the goal you're attempting to do in terms of reduce the wealth overall, however you lose accounts as a result and / or the attractors to new customer acquisition also takes a hit. The trade off is where all of this simply falls short. CCP takes away but what does it provide in return? how does this wealth get redirected? Why is Delve so high? The duking of stats serves no purpose but to fuel further negativity. Until you treat the root cause all you're doing is essentially reminding players that the games "rules" are always subject to change which in turn also generates further anxiety about adoption. Imagine if i kept changing the SDK/Frameworks languages you use to build the game? Inflation destroys wealth on the whole, it does not create it. And even if ratting in Delve was completely and totally stopped by CCP there would still be too much ISK entering the economy. This is a little bit too much, this a huge ginormous amount of too much ISK entering the economy. In this case where 2 regions are creating the inflation, it means that while they suffer a minor amount from the inflation, the rest of the game suffers a lot more. You know business as usual in EvE. It isn't two regions either. Look, on average the money supply grew at around 7 billion ISK/month. In May it grew 53 trillion. Even if you took out Deklein and Delve you'd still have some over 500% above average. This is not 2 regions. It is a systemic problem. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6648	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:05:01 - [2051] - Quote Shiloh Templeton wrote: This reminds me of articles in the past that suggested making things more lucrative for carebears would create more opportunities for hunters. So instead of trying to solve the problem with fixes that try to get people to quit playing the game, how about fixes that make it easier to gank the super PVE'rs? You mean like when they first introduced Dominion Sov with anomalies and saw the money supply start to increase dramatically and had to nerf anomalies? Like that? Yeah, that didn't work to well did it? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 31	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:15:11 - [2052] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: [quote=Mossyblog Barnes][quote=Cismet][quote=Mossyblog Barnes]sigh And actually PCU is an instantaneous measure, the actual number of players who have logged in during a given day would be larger than the peak PCU number. For example, to see this, imagine we have just 2 hours and in hour 1 30,000 players log in. In hour 2 15,000 players log in. What is the number of unique players who logged in? A number between 30,000 and 45,000 (including the end points). I don't disagree, however when you are game it comes down to server ticks as a unit of measurement. Moreover when you play you have a range in hours of your interaction with the game universe. Let's say you play avg 3 hours a day and they were between 4am to 10am most weekdays. Now obviously your gaming experience is going to differ from those in USTZ during peak periods of use, therefore your overall chances of death are lower. This in turn is prime wealth making timezone but on the otherhand its likely the hardest to get a round of epic ship loss/battles. So Logins Per Hour matter, as you have to work on the differences of peak player time zones vs offpeak whilst also taking into account regional interaction(s). If n% of the population on that time are in Delve fighting you guys, and y% of the people fighting are from Branch, then who's backfilling their interactions in surrounding areas? ..who imposes friction to their rating/mining farming lines? More players would increase the chances of death not lesson but would also decrease wealth given harassments in game for pvp are up, death is up and wealth is lowered.
EisernesTaipei Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:15:16 - [2053] - Quote The primary goal should be like long-term economic stability. Not just reducing combat power of capitals. If those big toys becoming useless strategy junk I believe nobody will build it afterward. I suggest CCP to build a isk recycle mechanism. For example to implant investment system which could be used on Planet Interaction system. First off, investments can be only made in any planets that is marked "Allied", or in planet that are territory of the investor's nation. Second, Investments reveal upgrades like local system start to support new clothes and some specific items. Lastly, investing could gives you lots of interaction tax reduction. Each time you invest a certain amount of money the planet can also get different terrain appearance
WHAT7 I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:21:58 - [2054] - Quote Eric Lemmonte wrote: I like how we all are punished because of goons' unchallenged ratting. Top 10 regions for bounties. Delve8.76918E+1212.14% Deklein4.46455E+126.18% Branch3.11909E+124.32% Cobalt Edge2.96567E+124.11% Outer Passage2.66506E+123.69% Querious2.6635E+123.69% Feythabolis2.60413E+123.61% Period Basis2.46879E+123.42% Providence2.45647E+123.40% Esoteria2.37196E+123.28% then come challenge us, oh wait, you're in VOLT, you guys run at the first sight of danger.
xOmGx Order of Order SOLAR FLEET 23	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:34:58 - [2055] - Quote there cant be too much ISK if you have too much ISK pls send them to me ingame iand i promise i will make them disappear safe and fast CCP just fails making NPC ISK sinks and ISK accumulated and will be accumulated ingame
Harry Forever Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1332	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:35:02 - [2056] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. why don't you just limit the maximum bounty payout per tick? with that you could easy have control and just hurt the ones doing the really highest ticks, just limit the payout to example 50m per tick (150m per hour) no matter how many rats are killed.. Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 16	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:49:38 - [2057] - Quote So people get their toys they always dreamed of and CCP goes nerf nerf nerf,.. so jaded.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 16	Posted - 2017.06.13 05:53:41 - [2058] - Quote Harry Forever wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. why don't you just limit the maximum bounty payout per tick? with that you could easy have control and just hurt the ones doing the really highest ticks, just limit the payout to example 50m per tick (150m per hour) no matter how many rats are killed.. Another example Jesus Christ crucifixion. Little people wanting to limit great people. Slackers offended by hardcores. One would think PH would do a better job at teaching people and bring out their potential, instead of small mindedness.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 550	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:09:20 - [2059] - Quote Onjine Anekuro wrote: I wonder how much even the original changes would impact the problem here. If you reduce carrier damage by 20%, and assuming that translates to a net loss of 10% in bounty income factoring in travel time, etc., it would go from 2.3T to 2.07 for Supercarriers and 2.6T to 2.34T for Carriers. The effect wouldn't be exactly that strong. There is that time you spend in warp that has to be accounted for. And... I don't rat in null, but I don't think the rats are on grid until you've been on grid for a few seconds. A signature :o
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 16	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:12:46 - [2060] - Quote xOmGx wrote: there cant be too much ISK if you have too much ISK pls send them to me ingame iand i promise i will make them disappear safe and fast CCP just fails making NPC ISK sinks and ISK accumulated and will be accumulated ingame Sadly it's obvious this game has turned into CCP and rest of EVE vs Goons. I'm not a goon but even I can clearly see, also looking into history, they've always been a force to recon with.

Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:16:45 - [2061] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Mossyblog Barnes wrote: @CCP Larrikin, I can see you're stating to take a long term view and like all economies you pull the leaver that shudders the most vs one big leaver that fixes all. However, taking the temperature of Delve and declaring all of Eve a risk is where the logic falls short. Cumualtive sure the data trends upwards but the rate of logins trend downwards and i'd wager the kill/death ratio(s) also have a different story (haven't downloaded the entirity of the data set as yet). Capping the main sources of ISK will slow total wealth and achieve the goal you're attempting to do in terms of reduce the wealth overall, however you lose accounts as a result and / or the attractors to new customer acquisition also takes a hit. The trade off is where all of this simply falls short. CCP takes away but what does it provide in return? how does this wealth get redirected? Why is Delve so high? The duking of stats serves no purpose but to fuel further negativity. Until you treat the root cause all you're doing is essentially reminding players that the games "rules" are always subject to change which in turn also generates further anxiety about adoption. Imagine if i kept changing the SDK/Frameworks languages you use to build the game? Inflation destroys wealth on the whole, it does not create it. And even if ratting in Delve was completely and totally stopped by CCP there would still be too much ISK entering the economy. This is a little bit too much, this a huge ginormous amount of too much ISK entering the economy. In this case where 2 regions are creating the inflation, it means that while they suffer a minor amount from the inflation, the rest of the game suffers a lot more. You know business as usual in EvE. It isn't two regions either. Look, on average the money supply grew at around 7 billion ISK/month. In May it grew 53 trillion. Even if you took out Deklein and Delve you'd still have something over 500% above average. This is not 2 regions. It is a systemic problem. Yes it is a systemic problem with 2 regions sticking out like sore thumbs. Top 10 regions for bounties. Delve 8.76918E+12 12.14% Deklein 4.46455E+12 6.18% Branch 3.11909E+12 4.32% Cobalt Edge 2.96567E+12 4.11% Outer Passage 2.66506E+12 3.69% Querious 2.6635E+12 3.69% Feythabolis 2.60413E+12 3.61% Period Basis 2.46879E+12 3.42% Providence 2.45647E+12 3.40% Esoteria 2.37196E+12 3.28% But like all of the over done crap in Null, if CCP ever try to fix it they will be greeted with a waves of tears so great as to make all that have come before it look like a drip in an ocean. Now the fact that CCP has caved in to the whining in such a huge manner to a massive alteration to the economy done by such a small number of people has shown everyone else that Null still rules supreme and will be given what ever they want if they cry enough about it. These changes were even approved by the CSM, yet since their change not one word has been uttered by a CSM member. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Mossyblog Barnes Kenshin. DARKNESS. 31	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:32:30 - [2062] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: [quote=Teckos Pech][quote=Mark Marconi][quote=Teckos Pech][quote=Mossyblog Barnes]@CCP Larrikin, But like all of the over done crap in Null, if CCP ever try to fix it they will be greeted with a waves of tears so great as to make all that have come before it look like a drip in an ocean. Now the fact that CCP has caved in to the whining in such a huge manner to a massive alteration to the economy done by such a small number of people has shown everyone else that Null still rules supreme and will be given what ever they want if they cry enough about it. These changes were even approved by the CSM, yet since their change not one word has been uttered by a CSM member. Waves of tears are always coming. Never listen to your fans as they dont want change, never listen to your critics as change is all they want. Listen to the ones who have indifference to your change, as they're the ones who influence. In the end, change is inevitable provided you manage the psychology of it's impact. Nerfing anything in game is a destructive behaviour and in turn you either need to win hearts/minds or trade. Negative reinforcement with an emphasis on weakening behaviour is whats happening, so them "caving" is not necessarily ground zero of the backlash, its the way in which its taken place is what's amplifying the said pain. Looking back they could of ripped the super/carrier bandaid off without warning. Wait and see the actual behaviour of players vs the vocal response, and use the data then to win hearts/minds on how change was used to influence the goals they are setting.. In the case of wealth slow downs it would have and will backfire which we've covered i think as to that "why".
sakpuncher Angry Rock Killers Inc. Serrice Council. 6	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:40:20 - [2063] - Quote the issue is not the carriers though. they just happen to be the current best ships for ratting therefore they are the prominent ships used for ratting. the ship doesnt matter. the means of makeing the money does. right now you have anoms that just instantly respawn you can endlessly do sites without remorse. and in delve you have this happeing. hundreds of pilots all running sigs. knowing that they just instantly respawn after. yes they use carriers cause that is the fastest way. but in accordance to isk invested/ isk made honestly the VNI is WAAAY above carrier. if your investing that much isk in a ship it should be for a reason. a VNI can litterally pay for itself in a hour and a half to two hours. a carrier despite its ticks takes exponentially longer. it all about the risk/reward and thats what makes eve great dont break that. you want to fix this faucet as you call it make it where the anoms have a respawn timer. or if your really that hellbent on carriers make it where they cant enter specific sites so they have to take a actual risk. i agree something needs done but what your chooseing to do is litterally the WORST possible choice. your nerfing the wrong thing. all this will accomplish is people finding other means to make the same amount of isk. which in turn will just be a calling to nerf another ship. the ship isnt the issue the mechanics are. the only reason its so weighed towards carriers is because thats the currently most cost effective way or who know maybe you just want people to skill extract all carrier skills into whatever becomes the new flavor of the month so you can line your own pockets. but i mean you wouldnt do that would you
lolz Quekz Caldari Provisions Caldari State 3	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:43:46 - [2064] - Quote at least ccp listened and reduced the overall nerf think it is a reasonable change as of now until a more permanent fix can be decided to reduce capital ratting
venetistrader norie H S attack 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:44:10 - [2065] - Quote Guys, you did nerf the 0.0 guys a lot in the past weeks. Just put the rorq in the state that he was before. Let him just boost and donGÇÖt play with us. I did train for it now IGÇÖm sad. I did train for carriers and now IGÇÖm sad. If you make this change make them in 1 week!!! DonGÇÖt let it go on for mounts and then nerf it!!!! And if you want to nerf the fighters more just make them self-destruct as soon as we launch them. Eh, IGÇÖm sad :( BY THE WAY IN A C5 OR 6 YOU CAN MAKE 400-500M AN HOUR. NERF THEM :)
Petros K North Korean Nuclear Research Requiem Eternal 8	Posted - 2017.06.13 06:53:52 - [2066] - Quote Introduce a new taxing system (just like real life works ) Monthly tax the income money(may it be bounties , contract payments , ANYTHING that goes into wallet ) of each player with scaling factors . ex 2.5% tax if your income was between 1 and 5billions 5% tax for 5.000.0001 isk earned up to 10billions You get my point . This would BALANCE the enormous incomes of people , but still be save for smaller fish .
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1845	Posted - 2017.06.13 07:00:54 - [2067] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. Holy **, are you kidding me? I would not even have passed the first year in my scientific studies (chemical engineering)... Nice, I have spent ZERO $ for EVE Online in the last five** days! I am the worst customer! Come on guys, what are you doing?
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2017.06.13 07:24:41 - [2068] - Quote Will admit it is crap like this why I avoid the forums. CCP come out with data The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. They come out with a solution. Then Null cries and CCP folds. And if you are not a member of the big blue donut, it shows just how much you matter to CCP. Not at All. Null will continue to grow huge fortunes in bounties, in an environment where even the targeting of fighters by NPCs is to much for the Null bears to take and everyone else dies by inflation. As someone who likes Wormhole space and Hi-sec, I don't even feel like an after thought in this game any more. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory. 13	Posted - 2017.06.13 07:32:35 - [2069] - Quote xOmGx wrote: Sov system does NOT encourage deploying and or use of capitalships CCP need to go back to SOV blocade units and or POS warfire (POS warfire will boost need for POS and POS fuel and so) Create / go back to NPC fuel blocks (yes yes abandon planetary stuff) ... TO remove ISK you have to make NPC relates ISK sinks NOT the relocation due to player to player trade I agree, keeping POS warfare active is one solution. The need then arises for POS emplacement to keep supplementing the newer sov mechanics but to a further extent (TCU upgrades could require a certain % of system moons seeded under the same sov holder). If PI is too profitable, merge it with moon mining UI where POS operators can utilize some amount of control on command center saturation of their satellite's host planet. Reintroduce orbital bombardment ammo, now for structure weapons / weapon upgrades, so that one moon can stake a claim against another moon's futile PI efforts. I will try to catch up on the more recent info, but please let me know your thoughts xOmGx.
Slave Endoma Exterminated 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:02:47 - [2070] - Quote Since 2004 I have suffered many upheavals and major changes, but what happens to this game over the past 2 years is really extreme. You guys from CCP have proven from long time, that I'm not important to you. Stop pushing me! It's true that I'm stubborn, but finally I will get tired and will leave you to destroy all that we have built together last 15 years. Seem you have forgotten that at the base of your richness is my enjoyment. Without me, you are just a pixel, one of many others. Enjoy your destruction.

Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 16	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:03:48 - [2071] - Quote Keep everything in liquid isk is the only long term solution, seeing how assets get ** all over by nerfs all the time and how game mechanics gets changed and ** you up if you are aspiring to become anything of worth in here.
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:07:04 - [2072] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: With the new changes I must ask why the NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) That was probably the most sensible change there in and the one that no one was complaining about. fighters already get curbstomped if they stop moving for more than about 10 seconds.. 15% more aggression is not needed.
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:11:02 - [2073] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: With the new changes I must ask why the NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) That was probably the most sensible change there in and the one that no one was complaining about. fighters already get curbstomped if they stop moving for more than about 10 seconds.. 15% more aggression is not needed. Yeah curb stomped. 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers Curb stomped must mean something different where you come from. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
sakpuncher Angry Rock Killers Inc. Serrice Council. 7	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:14:30 - [2074] - Quote as i said before the revision isnt enough. they are going about it the wrong way. does the isk faucet need nerfed. sure. but nerfing carriers isnt the answer thats just going to (if it couldnt be more obvious) ** everyone off. nerf the ability to endlessly chain anoms. sure it will ** off those regions with 50-60 people in each system doing nothing but anoms in 100% safety but it will leave your game in tact. the issue isnt the carriers its the unlimited anoms. and honestly CCP the damage is kinda already done. im a small guy in a small null corp that doesnt even have a carrier yet myself. given its something ive been training twards and building twards for a while now. to me all my time has been wasted because endgame (at least from a small players perspective) has just been pulled out from under me like a rug. at this point its no longer some rageing threat saying im going to unsub. at this point its what is going to be done to make me resub. like i said the damage is already done. at least from my perspective. and while i dont speak for everyone. i can assume that many think like me. and frankly between the above mentioned reasons and frankly the way your mods have treated me here. what is the draw to come back now? its all left a very very sour taste in my mouth
Cartheron Crust Matari Exodus 220	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:15:01 - [2075] - Quote Weak.
ottomans proud 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:15:38 - [2076] - Quote Instead of nerf the fighter nerf the player who rat all day. It is not fait for those player who has only 1-2 hour for ratting. You can think about the limitation for each player for ratting a day for example first 2 hour the damage is by % 100 after 3 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 95 4 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 90 like this you can calculate this and i think everyone will be happy.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18976	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:23:24 - [2077] - Quote ottomans proud wrote: Instead of nerf the fighter nerf the player who rat all day. It is not fait for those player who has only 1-2 hour for ratting. You can think about the limitation for each player for ratting a day for example first 2 hour the damage is by % 100 after 3 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 95 4 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 90 like this you can calculate this and i think everyone will be happy. So if I only get one day to go ratting I should be screwed over?
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 16	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:26:14 - [2078] - Quote ottomans proud wrote: Instead of nerf the fighter nerf the player who rat all day. It is not fait for those player who has only 1-2 hour for ratting. You can think about the limitation for each player for ratting a day for example first 2 hour the damage is by % 100 after 3 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 95 4 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 90 like this you can calculate this and i think everyone will be happy. Should we cripple Ussain Bolt so that you can keep up cause he's too fast for you, dullard?
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 5	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:31:56 - [2079] - Quote I'm still not satisfied with this changes because it has nothing to do with rebalancing but rather penalyzing. The best solution that was mentioned before would be introducing fatigue like timer/counter which will reduce bounty for hardcore grinders and still will let casual players earn their money and have fun. It could looks like that: Daily: <10 sites - 100% bounty >10 sites <20 - 80% bounty >20 sites - 60% bounty ..... etc. This will let you keep your beloved afk VNIs in good shape as well as smarbombing machariels and reduce carrier/super ISK faucet while maintaining their PvP abilities. Claiming that they are overpowerd is ridiculous so please stop. This is short term solution tho. We expect adding new types anomalies dedicated for cerriers/supers
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18976	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:40:33 - [2080] - Quote Analius Glover wrote: I'm still not satisfied with this changes because it has nothing to do with rebalancing but rather penalyzing. The best solution that was mentioned before would be introducing fatigue like timer/counter which will reduce bounty for hardcore grinders and still will let casual players earn their money and have fun. It could looks like that: Daily: <10 sites - 100% bounty >10 sites <20 - 80% bounty >20 sites - 60% bounty ..... etc. This will let you keep your beloved afk VNIs in good shape as well as smarbombing machariels and reduce carrier/super ISK faucet while maintaining their PvP abilities. Claiming that they are overpowerd is ridiculous so please stop. This is short term solution tho. We expect adding new types anomalies dedicated for cerriers/supers Again, this will **** over people who cannot play every day. Why should we punish everyone when its a fraction of the playerbase that are causing the problem?

Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4109	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:41:19 - [2081] - Quote Analius Glover wrote: I'm still not satisfied with this changes because it has nothing to do with rebalancing but rather penalyzing. The best solution that was mentioned before would be introducing fatigue like timer/counter which will reduce bounty for hardcore grinders and still will let casual players earn their money and have fun. It could looks like that: Daily: <10 sites - 100% bounty >10 sites <20 - 80% bounty >20 sites - 60% bounty ..... etc. This will let you keep your beloved afk VNIs in good shape as well as smarbombing machariels and reduce carrier/super ISK faucet while maintaining their PvP abilities. Claiming that they are overpowerd is ridiculous so please stop. This is short term solution tho. We expect adding new types anomalies dedicated for cerriers/supers yes, you are being penalised for wrecking the economy, so your daily does nothing but penalise single account users, basically if you run more than 3 accounts then this daily of yours does nothing Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 18	Posted - 2017.06.13 08:59:20 - [2082] - Quote Analius Glover wrote: which will reduce bounty for hardcore grinders and still will let casual players earn their money and have fun. Good job. Catering to the weak by intentionally crippling the strong. No surprise there, only brainfreezed human can have mentality so sickening and of anti progression. Have yourself locked in an institute for mentally degenerated. Please, favor to humanity.
erg cz ErgoDron 585	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:02:01 - [2083] - Quote Instead of making NPC agress drones 100 % if ship is not shooting a single salvo on NPC itselves, they reduce drone agron from 15% to 0. IMHO absolutely stupid decision. Problem are not fighter damage, problem is NPC AI, that allows use only fighters / drones and stay semi AFK. Make NPC focus on your drones if ship is not firing itself and leave fighters as they are now ... grrr !!! Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP for free!
kortes272 INSePaRaBLeS Wings Wanderers 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:06:43 - [2084] - Quote what ?? after months of skill training for t2 fighters 20% nerf for fighters ?! its your decision to keep balance in the game economy ? !! Eve online is over for me !
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 212	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:07:42 - [2085] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: Will admit it is crap like this why I avoid the forums. CCP come out with data The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. They come out with a solution. Then Null cries and CCP folds. And if you are not a member of the big blue donut, it shows just how much you matter to CCP. Not at All. Null will continue to grow huge fortunes in bounties, in an environment where even the targeting of fighters by NPCs is to much for the Null bears to take and everyone else dies by inflation. As someone who likes Wormhole space and Hi-sec, I don't even feel like an after thought in this game any more. You seem to be misunderstanding some of the backlash here. There are three issues at stake here: 1. Carrier/super capabilities in PvE. 2. Carrier/super abilities in PvP. 3. Announcing such a significant nerf with so little warning, especially when people don't feel 1 or 2 are justified. You seem to be focused on the PvE part of the nerf which is the part that's most justified. Many of us protesting the change have no problem with fighters doing 20-30% less damage to rats. The problem is when the solution they propose includes such a drastic and unjustified change to the ships' capabilities against player ships and structures. If the problem is the money carrier pilots make, nerf the money they make but don't screw over everyone who trained the ship for something other than making money. I'm strongly against a fighter nerf, even the reduced version, for PvP reasons, but I completely agree something needs to be done to change their moneymaking abilities. I'd personally go with turning bounties over a certain amount into CONCORD LP so there's a bit of supply and demand in the system as well as an ISK sink, but there have been many other alternatives proposed. What most of us agree on is that nerfing a ship's PvP abilities into the ground for PvE reasons is absurd.
Ian Hestia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:08:22 - [2086] - Quote Commander Cain wrote: 102 pages with 20 posts per page. Let's round that to 2000 of your paying customers say this is a terrible idea. Why do you even post stuff like this. You don't listen to what your players want. CCP is always looking for a easy way out. Why do we have a CSM? If these changes are being approved by these people CSM elections need to be changed too. But that's a different day It almost seems like you want to weed out older generations of your customers. Who are the most loyal. New players coming in on alpha accounts don't know how we are screwing over our players who over months, years and on yeah A DECADE. They are still dreaming a about capitals and making isk. It won't be until they spend hundreads of dollars and subscriptions and plex will they learn that everything they waited and paid for will be neutered. Don't do this. Fix high sec. stop picking on the players who have devoted the most time and money to your business. True!!!
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 18	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:08:54 - [2087] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Again, this will **** over people who cannot play every day. Why should we punish everyone when its a fraction of the playerbase that are causing the problem? What's the problem? That a fraction of player base just as a fraction of humans in real life, have great dreams they want to achieve so they put in the work to achieve them? Having and achieving dreams is a problem now? The world this is becoming...
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 18	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:10:44 - [2088] - Quote erg cz wrote: Instead of making NPC agress drones 100 % if ship is not shooting a single salvo on NPC itselves, they reduce drone agron from 15% to 0. IMHO absolutely stupid decision. Problem are not fighter damage, problem is NPC AI, that allows use only fighters / drones and stay semi AFK. Make NPC focus on your drones if ship is not firing itself and leave fighters as they are now ... grrr !!! Solves nothing, autotargeting missiles can keep on firing, while you're still semi afk.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 10	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:11:20 - [2089] - Quote Cismet wrote: CCP Larrikin has produced the numbers that prompted the change. I would still like to see the raw data, but CCP have absolutely no reason to lie about those numbers. 46% of bounties to ~4% of players is a good reason to nerf the income stream of Carriers. Issue #1: If I pop a rat in the course of mining, I just became a player earning bounty. For that data to be valid and not a lampshade, we need to see total breakdown of those numbers, especially number of rats per player with a sidebar for very low to insignificant ratting activity most likely produced by incidentals like mining, hauling, and scanning vessels (I don't know how significant ratting is to the scanning content, so correct me if it's actually a decent part of the macrogame).
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:14:19 - [2090] - Quote This still nerfs the fighters who are already nearly useless in high TiDi PvP. The guns barely ever cycle and you have to generally recall them after each volley. This just nerfs them even further making titans and dreads only capitals worth bringing to the field. Could you please stop screwing over PvP? Scale the bounties since there is less effort to kill the rats and concord pays out less. That way you can control how much isk goes there while still making carrier/super ratting possible as it is the only actually engaging PvE in the game (a bit too much fighter aggro for anyone with RL though). BTW. Your statistics don't handle multiboxing vs single char. Multiboxing carriers is impossible while you can fairly easy run quite a few drone boats.

Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 212	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:14:53 - [2091] - Quote erg cz wrote: Instead of making NPC agress drones 100 % if ship is not shooting a single salvo on NPC itselves, they reduce drone agron from 15% to 0. IMHO absolutely stupid decision. Problem are not fighter damage, problem is NPC AI, that allows use only fighters / drones and stay semi AFK. Make NPC focus on your drones if ship is not firing itself and leave fighters as they are now ... grrr !!! I dare you to try using fighters semi AFK. They're like guns, except when the target dies, in addition to doing no damage your guns also die if you don't pick a new target within a few seconds. The level of NPC fighter aggro is already absurd, yet it doesn't deter those who can keep their fighters moving and kill the most dangerous NPCs quickly. At this point I don't think there would be a noticeable difference if rats targeted fighters 100% of the time.
Jarmen4u Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:15:34 - [2092] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: baltec1 wrote: Again, this will **** over people who cannot play every day. Why should we punish everyone when its a fraction of the playerbase that are causing the problem? What's the problem? That a fraction of player base just as a fraction of humans in real life, have great dreams they want to achieve so they put in the work to achieve them? Having and achieving dreams is a problem now? The world this is becoming... The problem is that this is too great a source of too much ISK. It will cause long-term issues if it's not dealt with. Also, what dreams are there to achieve once you're at a level that you can AFK rat in a super? There's not much upward mobility to go once you're a super pilot. Now, if they were nerfing the income for VNIs or other subcaps, that would certainly crush the dreams of those who are trying to achieve. But if you're in a super, you've already succeeded. At that point, it's not even work. The problem becomes, your money is making money for you, just like in real life. Rich get richer, etc etc. Not a good economical decision in game or in real life.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 11	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:24:17 - [2093] - Quote Voice fromthe Abyss wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. On review of the numbers above and in the graphs supplied it seems clear to me that this is an over reaction to a spike which if you review the charts has happened previously (see November - December 2016). If you take a long view the personal wealth in game has been steadily growing at a rate of around 20T every 2 years. Since March 2016 (just over a year ago) the growth has been 10-11T (even including this spike) or about half of the growth that occurred over the previous 2 two year periods mentioned above and this growth has not previously be viewed as bad or needing to be arrested. So the big question is why the sudden need to arrest isk generation? Why are we not waiting to see if after a couple of months we have another decrease in wealth as occurred after December 2016? These are the questions that the above announcement does not make clear. The percentages of pilots generating the isk from my point of view lines up with what I would expect based on the investment cost of the ships being flown. I would expect that if 1.4% of the player base is generating 2T isk that it would take 3-4 times the number of carrier pilots to generate the same amount of isk and likewise it would take 3-4 times the number of cruiser pilots to generate the amount of isk a carrier pilot does. These proportions don't look wrong to me. As such I am left with the view that CCP don't want players that invest significantly more to be able to earn significantly more from ratting which really does not make much sense to me. I know that the would be economists will likely howl me down saying that I just don't understand and that may be true but before you do that give me some answers to my above questions, explain why a blip that has not yet impacted on the 2-5 year average increase in wealth is a bad thing that needs a tune up right now before we see if it is a continuing trend? Typically economics is supposed to take a longer term view rather than reacting to short term dips or blips. Given that the current long term personal wealth trend remains within average historical parameters I think this is a knee jerk reaction to a very short term trend that really should be allowed to play out for a little longer before CCP rush in to make a change. This post just reinforces my disbelief on climate change alarmism.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 19	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:25:16 - [2094] - Quote Jarmen4u wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: baltec1 wrote: Again, this will **** over people who cannot play every day. Why should we punish everyone when its a fraction of the playerbase that are causing the problem? What's the problem? That a fraction of player base just as a fraction of humans in real life, have great dreams they want to achieve so they put in the work to achieve them? Having and achieving dreams is a problem now? The world this is becoming... The problem is that this is too great a source of too much ISK. It will cause long-term issues if it's not dealt with. Also, what dreams are there to achieve once you're at a level that you can AFK rat in a super? There's not much upward mobility to go once you're a super pilot. Now, if they were nerfing the income for VNIs or other subcaps, that would certainly crush the dreams of those who are trying to achieve. But if you're in a super, you've already succeeded. At that point, it's not even work. The problem becomes, your money is making money for you, just like in real life. Rich get richer, etc etc. Not a good economical decision in game or in real life. Wow, AFK RAT IN SUPER, wow. Dear Brave Newbie, in much ignorance you still rest. I shall pray that your masters are able to help you lift it up and guide out of the darkness and towards the light. Much love, Be blessed. MTJ
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 103	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:25:30 - [2095] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. "Don't trust statistics, you didn't forge yourself" (: 22,3% of the isk was earned by 1,4% of the players (supers) 46,5% of the isk was earned by 6,2% of the players (supers + carriers) a) Your 100% even included highsec-miners that shoot an npc frig for a bounty of 5 isk every hour b) These figures don't include that these ships were singleboxing, so it was most likely all the isk these chars earned. c) These chars are likely the highest skilled characters of your 100% d) It doesn't include HOW LONG these 6,2% ratted. Maybe they ratted 4 times as long as the average other player? Your statistics do include players that log in once a month, shoot a single npc frig and log off again. e) In general this compares people that only get bounties on the side to anomaly ratters that exclusively get the bounties. People that earn bounties on the side are: miners, incursion runners, ded runners, hell even pvpers with gate-rats.
venetistrader norie H S attack 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:26:05 - [2096] - Quote GUYS, you know the multi-boxers and hardcore players will find ways to make combat sites fast... smart bombs... I guess we will all move to wh space until you nerf the sites there again :)
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 212	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:28:13 - [2097] - Quote Jarmen4u wrote: Also, what dreams are there to achieve once you're at a level that you can AFK rat in a super? There's not much upward mobility to go once you're a super pilot. Now, if they were nerfing the income for VNIs or other subcaps, that would certainly crush the dreams of those who are trying to achieve. But if you're in a super, you've already succeeded. At that point, it's not even work. The problem becomes, your money is making money for you, just like in real life. Rich get richer, etc etc. Not a good economical decision in game or in real life. First of all, there is no level at which you can AFK rat in a super. The longest you can go AFK is about 10 seconds, and even then you might lose a fighter. It's the most demanding way to make money, where you need to keep up an average of 40+ actions per minute with no breaks except warping between sites. As for what there is to do after getting a super, there's plenty of stuff. You can still work toward getting a titan or multiple, buying multiple relatively expensive ships for PvP, investing in the market or other more lucrative venture, etc. I can think of 1000x more things to do than what my ISK will allow, and as my killboard demonstrates, I own a super.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 13	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:30:28 - [2098] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Commander Spurty wrote: Why haven't you used your data to decide: "We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors" Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. That path leadeth to thine themepark Mechanically you have two options. An arbitrary total ratting limit. Which means everyone who isn't a super gets nerfed too. Or an arbitrary per pilot limit. Which forces multi-characters on the same account (to keep costs down) to bypass it, & makes no sense in a sandbox. Neither are viable solutions. What about Regional Threat Levels (or even as granular as Constellation Threat Levels)? The more you rat out in a given area the longer the respawn timers, the weaker the rats, and the smaller the bounties, the longer an instance of rats continue to exist the shorter the respawns, the tougher things that get spawned, and thus the bigger the bounty that is rewarded. It's like belt growth for rats. ED: Sudden thought: you only get bounty in regions/constellations with a security rating of 0.1 or more, anything with Sovereignty on a region can set up a pool of fund to award bounty in that area.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 106	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:36:33 - [2099] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. "Don't trust statistics, you didn't forge yourself" (: 22,3% of the isk was earned by 1,4% of the players (supers) 46,5% of the isk was earned by 6,2% of the players (supers + carriers) a) Your 100% even included highsec-miners that shoot an npc frig for a bounty of 5 isk every hour b) These figures don't include that these ships were singleboxing, so it was most likely all the isk these chars earned. c) These chars are likely the highest skilled characters of your 100%. Capitals are a ship of choice for long-time/highskill players. d) It doesn't include HOW LONG these 6,2% ratted. Maybe they ratted 4 times as long as the average other player? Your statistics do include players that log in once a month, shoot a single npc frig and log off again. e) In general this compares people that only get bounties on the side to anomaly ratters that exclusively get the bounties. People that earn bounties on the side are: miners, incursion runners, ded runners, hell even pvpers with gate-rats. If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 212	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:40:22 - [2100] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know?

Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 109	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:48:22 - [2101] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? Nope they don't. A maxed out carrier with 3500 dps and utter squishy-pve-fit can get 6-70 ticks. But maybe not even that on a regular basis. A super can never get 4 times that. All the warping, and the missing damage prevents that. I expect 160 if you are REALLY good.
Petros K North Korean Nuclear Research Requiem Eternal 8	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:50:43 - [2102] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? 260m tick would mean that some1 is killing 1 haven in 2-2half minutes. Is it even possible ?
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:56:45 - [2103] - Quote Jarmen4u wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: baltec1 wrote: Again, this will **** over people who cannot play every day. Why should we punish everyone when its a fraction of the playerbase that are causing the problem? What's the problem? That a fraction of player base just as a fraction of humans in real life, have great dreams they want to achieve so they put in the work to achieve them? Having and achieving dreams is a problem now? The world this is becoming... The problem is that this is too great a source of too much ISK. It will cause long-term issues if it's not dealt with. Also, what dreams are there to achieve once you're at a level that you can AFK rat in a super? There's not much upward mobility to go once you're a super pilot. Now, if they were nerfing the income for VNIs or other subcaps, that would certainly crush the dreams of those who are trying to achieve. But if you're in a super, you've already succeeded. At that point, it's not even work. The problem becomes, your money is making money for you, just like in real life. Rich get richer, etc etc. Not a good economical decision in game or in real life. Can you show this AFK carrier/super ratting as I have not been able to see it. At the moment (pre patch) if you look away for a few seconds you can be certain to lose at least a fighter and maybe several. Fighters need active commands to orbit/shoot/launch extra weapon so there is exactly zero AFKability in carrier/super ratting. It is only PvE that can't be multiboxed and that is somewhat engaging as you have to pay attention constantly. Supers might be a bit too high income but something closer to 100 mil per tick (realistic tick not Quant cherry picked one) would be perfectly fine as that is comparable to 5 ishtars which is perfectly possible to multibox without too many issues (or any depending on the type of rats you have, delve sucks ass for this due to neuting rats).
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18976	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:58:12 - [2104] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. "Don't trust statistics, you didn't forge yourself" (: 22,3% of the isk was earned by 1,4% of the players (supers) 46,5% of the isk was earned by 6,2% of the players (supers + carriers) a) Your 100% even included highsec-miners that shoot an npc frig for a bounty of 5 isk every hour b) These figures don't include that these ships were singleboxing, so it was most likely all the isk these chars earned. c) These chars are likely the highest skilled characters of your 100%. Capitals are a ship of choice for long-time/highskill players. d) It doesn't include HOW LONG these 6,2% ratted. Maybe they ratted 4 times as long as the average other player? Your statistics do include players that log in once a month, shoot a single npc frig and log off again. e) In general this compares people that only get bounties on the side to anomaly ratters that exclusively get the bounties. People that earn bounties on the side are: miners, incursion runners, ded runners, hell even pvpers with gate-rats. If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3)Take into account the actual time spent ratting (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Like: xx,x% of the ticks in nullsec-anos were done by supers. They earned xx,x% of the nullsec-ano bounties. xx,x% of the ticks in nullsec-anos were done by carriers. They earned xx,x% of the nullsec-ano bounties. The number will be even worse. They are already showing that supers and carriers are making up around half of the bounties despite being only 6.2% of the population earning bounties.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 110	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:58:56 - [2105] - Quote Petros K wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? 260m tick would mean that some1 is killing 1 haven in 2-2half minutes. Is it even possible ? A haven should have 30mil-ish. So in order to get 260mil you would have to do like 9 havens in 20 min. Warping 9 times will cost you like 20 sec each at least. 3 min are pure warping, assume you are permaaligned. 17minutes/9 means you will have to do each haven in 1,8 minutes. ohm.... no!!! (:
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 09:59:01 - [2106] - Quote Petros K wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? 260m tick would mean that some1 is killing 1 haven in 2-2half minutes. Is it even possible ? It is in titans IIRC but the price of DD fuel went so high that it wasn't paying off according to our titan jews. Also I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm ;)
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 110	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:00:51 - [2107] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. "Don't trust statistics, you didn't forge yourself" (: 22,3% of the isk was earned by 1,4% of the players (supers) 46,5% of the isk was earned by 6,2% of the players (supers + carriers) a) Your 100% even included highsec-miners that shoot an npc frig for a bounty of 5 isk every hour b) These figures don't include that these ships were singleboxing, so it was most likely all the isk these chars earned. c) These chars are likely the highest skilled characters of your 100%. Capitals are a ship of choice for long-time/highskill players. d) It doesn't include HOW LONG these 6,2% ratted. Maybe they ratted 4 times as long as the average other player? Your statistics do include players that log in once a month, shoot a single npc frig and log off again. e) In general this compares people that only get bounties on the side to anomaly ratters that exclusively get the bounties. People that earn bounties on the side are: miners, incursion runners, ded runners, hell even pvpers with gate-rats. If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3)Take into account the actual time spent ratting (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Like: xx,x% of the ticks in nullsec-anos were done by supers. They earned xx,x% of the nullsec-ano bounties. xx,x% of the ticks in nullsec-anos were done by carriers. They earned xx,x% of the nullsec-ano bounties. The number will be even worse. They are already showing that supers and carriers are making up around half of the bounties despite being only 6.2% of the population earning bounties. Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats. I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE.
Kalioria U.K.R.A.I.N.E SOLAR FLEET 3	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:02:48 - [2108] - Quote Where large amounts of isks are spent in eve: - For new ships - For new structures When players need new structures and ships: - When they move to another place and there is no point to move them - When ships and structures are destroyed. So to increase demand we need more ships and structures to be destroyed. That means we need some huge wars and currently there are no reasons for them, because there is not so much interest in conquering enemy territory. So probably instead of nerfing income sources it was better to add more reasons to fight with each other? There always will be people who earn more than others just because they put more effort in it. So why their income should be reduced? For example there may be some special events, some rats that collect wrecks from player battlefields and spawn only if some amount of capital ships were destroyed by opposite fractions? Meaning that several alliances should have neutral or negative standings, make a huge fight and then some third npc force come there to collect their wrecks and defend themselves. Think about some special reward and probably people will fight again? Because now pvp mostly looks like - fleet of 50 cruisers comes into enemy territory, then: a) they kill some carrybears b) they are killed by 100-150 enemy fleets on the same trash cans c) they are dropped by several capitals and also killed d) if they are lucky - they go home with nothing. e) hardly ever there is some interesting fight. Just make eve pvp great again and people will spend isks and not just collect them. Accepting isk donations for ammo.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:05:57 - [2109] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: [quote=baltec1] Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE. Will be interesting how well/if they can detect multiboxing. Running several ishtars is easy as is running them in the background while working. Something that is not the case with capital ratting. I know that I stopped carrier ratting due to losing fighters if I look away for a sec, while worst that happens in an ishtar is that I get a bit lower tick.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18976	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:05:59 - [2110] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE. Disgusting is it not?

baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18976	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:07:30 - [2111] - Quote Axhind wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: [quote=baltec1] Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE. Will be interesting how well/if they can detect multiboxing. Running several ishtars is easy as is running them in the background while working. Something that is not the case with capital ratting. I know that I stopped carrier ratting due to losing fighters if I look away for a sec, while worst that happens in an ishtar is that I get a bit lower tick. oh its still possible to multibox 2-3 carriers/supers if you have the right rig.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:08:54 - [2112] - Quote Kalioria wrote: Where large amounts of isks are spent in eve: - For new ships - For new structures When players need new structures and ships: - When they move to another place and there is no point to move them - When ships and structures are destroyed. So to increase demand we need more ships and structures to be destroyed. That means we need some huge wars and currently there are no reasons for them, because there is not so much interest in conquering enemy territory. So probably instead of nerfing income sources it was better to add more reasons to fight with each other? There always will be people who earn more than others just because they put more effort in it. So why their income should be reduced? For example there may be some special events, some rats that collect wrecks from player battlefields and spawn only if some amount of capital ships were destroyed by opposite fractions? Meaning that several alliances should have neutral or negative standings, make a huge fight and then some third npc force come there to collect their wrecks and defend themselves. Think about some special reward and probably people will fight again? Because now pvp mostly looks like - fleet of 50 cruisers comes into enemy territory, then: a) they kill some carrybears b) they are killed by 100-150 enemy fleets on the same trash cans c) they are dropped by several capitals and also killed d) if they are lucky - they go home with nothing. e) hardly ever there is some interesting fight. Just make eve pvp great again and people will spend isks and not just collect them. Actually your entire premise is wrong. Destruction of ships is an isk faucet (except suicide gankers in high sec). The isk is shuffled around and insurance is injecting huge amounts of isk. You losing isk doesn't mean it is gone, just transferred to someone else. Down south there is quite a lot of good action with PL/NC. vs Test/CO2 vs CVA vs Imperium vs whoever.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:10:14 - [2113] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Axhind wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: [quote=baltec1] Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE. Will be interesting how well/if they can detect multiboxing. Running several ishtars is easy as is running them in the background while working. Something that is not the case with capital ratting. I know that I stopped carrier ratting due to losing fighters if I look away for a sec, while worst that happens in an ishtar is that I get a bit lower tick. oh its still possible to multibox 2-3 carriers/supers if you have the right rig. Show us this multiboxing of carriers then (no input broadcasting obviously) and just how long can you keep it up manually.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 214	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:11:35 - [2114] - Quote Ok, my bad. I forgot sarcasm doesn't come across very well in text. Any references I may make to 260 mil ticks are referring to CCP Quant's glorious reddit post about supers getting up to 260 mil ticks and making 780 mil an hour per account.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 20	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:12:41 - [2115] - Quote Petros K wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? 260m tick would mean that some1 is killing 1 haven in 2-2half minutes. Is it even possible ? No, it isn't. My current record time for a haven is 3minutes 24seconds (from spawn to finish or more than that seconds having to wait for them to spawn after arriving in site). Excluding bomb use due to weapons timer, all guns cycling nonstop in perfect rhythm. With use of bombs it would be slightly faster. It's very high intensity clickfest requiring very high focus and precision. Like when ratting becomes a sport. But how could people whose best achievement is probably just holding a beer understand that.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 20	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:15:00 - [2116] - Quote Petros K wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? 260m tick would mean that some1 is killing 1 haven in 2-2half minutes. Is it even possible ? No, 260m is the highest tick ever recorded with a dreadspawn worth 120m in bounty on the top of your regular tick, which CCP_Quant forgot to mention, or is not even aware of himself most likely. 120m dreadspawn is rare is flipping eclipse of the sun. In months of superratting I haven't had a single one spawn on me.
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 10	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:22:53 - [2117] - Quote Petros K wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? 260m tick would mean that some1 is killing 1 haven in 2-2half minutes. Is it even possible ? Only way i see this being possible would be to have 3 consecutive sites with a dread spawn. 60m on that * 3 makes 180m + about 80m from the regular bounties, about 25 - 30M per Anom. So, you know, an utter outlier, a 1 in a million happening.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:23:58 - [2118] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Axhind wrote: Show us this multiboxing of carriers then (no input broadcasting obviously) and just how long can you keep it up manually. Here you go. Granted its incursions but the same tactic will work for anoms Capitals in incursions? Since when? Have you actually done carrier ratting since the changes to fighter mechanics? LInking some random guy multiboxing subcaps is not evidence of carrier/super multiboxing.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 113	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:26:39 - [2119] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Axhind wrote: baltec1 wrote: [quote=Axhind] Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE. Will be interesting how well/if they can detect multiboxing. Running several ishtars is easy as is running them in the background while working. Something that is not the case with capital ratting. I know that I stopped carrier ratting due to losing fighters if I look away for a sec, while worst that happens in an ishtar is that I get a bit lower tick. oh its still possible to multibox 2-3 carriers/supers if you have the right rig. Show us this multiboxing of carriers then (no input broadcasting obviously) and just how long can you keep it up manually. Here you go. Granted its incursions but the same tactic will work for anoms 1) That guy is using stratioses and not carriers 2) Microing 1 of 3 squads of fighters is the same work as microing a full 5-flight of drones. 3) In addition to that the fighters also may need mwd + orbiting 4) The Carriers do MUCH more dmg than stratioses. You will need to lock and attack multiple times as much. 5) Drone aggro/assist/guard helps a lot Microing 1 Carrier is already easily as much work as microing 3+ stratioses. Show me someone microing 6 stratioses while generating a 20mil+ tick without using assist/guard and I'll start to beleave you. Multiboxing 2 carriers close to perfectly or 3 carriers even remotely good are wet fantasies (:
Cypherous Cypherous Corporation 256	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:27:08 - [2120] - Quote NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) Reverting that is straight up mentally ******, the damage reduction alone won't do **, you're going to add like 60 seconds to site times and nothing will change

Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 113	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:27:26 - [2121] - Quote Random Freak wrote: Petros K wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3) Divide them by the amount of time spent to generate that isk (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Haven't you been paying attention? They get up to 260 mil ticks. What more do you need to know? 260m tick would mean that some1 is killing 1 haven in 2-2half minutes. Is it even possible ? Only way i see this being possible would be to have 3 consecutive sites with a dread spawn. 60m on that * 3 makes 180m + about 80m from the regular bounties, about 25 - 30M per Anom. So, you know, an utter outlier, a 1 in a million happening. True Sansha Dreads (the seldom faction kind) give 120mil bounties. Cypherous wrote: NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) Reverting that is straight up mentally ******, the damage reduction alone won't do **, you're going to add like 60 seconds to site times and nothing will change Guess what? The community gave a shitstorm because it DID NOT WANT that change.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18976	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:29:44 - [2122] - Quote Axhind wrote: baltec1 wrote: Axhind wrote: Show us this multiboxing of carriers then (no input broadcasting obviously) and just how long can you keep it up manually. Here you go. Granted its incursions but the same tactic will work for anoms Capitals in incursions? Since when? Have you actually done carrier ratting since the changes to fighter mechanics? LInking some random guy multiboxing subcaps is not evidence of carrier/super multiboxing. Where did I say capitals in incursions? Its the setup he is using, with this setup you can have multiple clients operating. You can see exactly what is going on with each client so keeping fighters alive is fairly easy. You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:30:23 - [2123] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: baltec1 wrote: Axhind wrote: baltec1 wrote: [quote=Axhind] Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE. Will be interesting how well/if they can detect multiboxing. Running several ishtars is easy as is running them in the background while working. Something that is not the case with capital ratting. I know that I stopped carrier ratting due to losing fighters if I look away for a sec, while worst that happens in an ishtar is that I get a bit lower tick. oh its still possible to multibox 2-3 carriers/supers if you have the right rig. Show us this multiboxing of carriers then (no input broadcasting obviously) and just how long can you keep it up manually. Here you go. Granted its incursions but the same tactic will work for anoms 1) That guy is using stratioses and not carriers 2) Microing 3 squads of fighters is the same work as microing a 5-flight of drones. 3) In addition to that the fighters also may need mwd + orbiting 4) The Carriers do MUCH more dmg than stratioses. You will need to lock and attack multiple times as much. Microing 1 Carrier is already easily as much work as microing 3+ stratioses. Show me someone microing 6 stratioses while generating a 20mil+ tick without using assist/guard and I'll start to beleave you. Plus drones auto-aggro which helps a lot with multiboxing.
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 10	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:33:02 - [2124] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: True Sansha Dreads (the seldom faction kind) give 120mil bounties. . My bad then. Since i reside in Delve, i've only ever encountered the Bloodraider Dreads which are at 60m bounty. Thanks.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18976	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:34:26 - [2125] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: 1) That guy is using stratioses and not carriers Doesn't matter, its the tool he is using we are looking at not the ships. Destriouth Hollow wrote: 2) Microing 3 squads of fighters is the same work as microing a 5-flight of drones. A handful of clicks, you can easily operate 2-3 carriers using this system. Destriouth Hollow wrote: 3) In addition to that the fighters also may need mwd + orbiting And? The guys running incursions are having to operate a dosen ships including logi. I'm sure you can handle a handful of fighter squadrons. Destriouth Hollow wrote: 4) The Carriers do MUCH more dmg than stratioses. You will need to lock and attack multiple times as much. Does a carrier out damage a dosen incursion ships? I doubt it.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 20	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:35:46 - [2126] - Quote baltec1 wrote: You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system. OK, proven. You don't have supercarrier and have no clue what you're talking about. You just made a fool of yourself in front of every supercarrier pilot whose ever used it for PVE. Well done.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 113	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:35:46 - [2127] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: 1) That guy is using stratioses and not carriers Doesn't matter, its the tool he is using we are looking at not the ships. Destriouth Hollow wrote: 2) Microing 3 squads of fighters is the same work as microing a 5-flight of drones. A handful of clicks, you can easily operate 2-3 carriers using this system. Destriouth Hollow wrote: 3) In addition to that the fighters also may need mwd + orbiting And? The guys running incursions are having to operate a dosen ships including logi. I'm sure you can handle a handful of fighter squadrons. Destriouth Hollow wrote: 4) The Carriers do MUCH more dmg than stratioses. You will need to lock and attack multiple times as much. Does a carrier out damage a dosen incursion ships? I doubt it. Such tools will get your account banned however (:
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 114	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:43:53 - [2128] - Quote Random Freak wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: True Sansha Dreads (the seldom faction kind) give 120mil bounties. . My bad then. Since i reside in Delve, i've only ever encountered the Bloodraider Dreads which are at 60m bounty. Thanks. You have the same in your region. They are just very rare and called "Dark Blood Dreadnought": https://zkillboard.com/ship/41397/
Kalioria U.K.R.A.I.N.E SOLAR FLEET 4	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:44:46 - [2129] - Quote Axhind wrote: Capitals in incursions? Since when? Have you actually done carrier ratting since the changes to fighter mechanics? LInking some random guy multiboxing subcaps is not evidence of carrier/super multiboxing. In null sec incursions can be closed in 1 day. All you need ~7-8 supers, 3-4 carriers, 2 fax. + Fill fleet with alts on frigs to get 60 people in fleet. If you close it in one day you get 25x45 mil is + 250k LP (plus 10% bonus for most contributors) per each char. In best situation you can farm in such way for ~week, or at least 3-4 days. Closing each site that allows 60 people in fleet takes around 15 minutes in such setup. Accepting isk donations for ammo.
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 10	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:47:50 - [2130] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: Random Freak wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: True Sansha Dreads (the seldom faction kind) give 120mil bounties. . My bad then. Since i reside in Delve, i've only ever encountered the Bloodraider Dreads which are at 60m bounty. Thanks. You have the same in your region. They are just very rare and called "Dark Blood Dreadnought": https://zkillboard.com/ship/41397/ I did get those about 2 or 3 times since i have started flying a carrier, but i remember those being at 60m bounty (48m with ESS) and not 120m.

Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 115	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:50:02 - [2131] - Quote Random Freak wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: Random Freak wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: True Sansha Dreads (the seldom faction kind) give 120mil bounties. . My bad then. Since i reside in Delve, i've only ever encountered the Bloodraider Dreads which are at 60m bounty. Thanks. You have the same in your region. They are just very rare and called "Dark Blood Dreadnought": https://zkillboard.com/ship/41397/ I did get those about 2 or 3 times since i have started flying a carrier, but i remember those being at 60m bounty (48m with ESS) and not 120m. You are talking about the "Blood Dreadnought" which is 60mil and not the "Dark Blood Dreadnought", which is 120mil. Here is the regular "Blood Dreadnought": https://zkillboard.com/ship/37463/
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:50:50 - [2132] - Quote Kalioria wrote: Axhind wrote: Capitals in incursions? Since when? Have you actually done carrier ratting since the changes to fighter mechanics? LInking some random guy multiboxing subcaps is not evidence of carrier/super multiboxing. In null sec incursions can be closed in 1 day. All you need ~7-8 supers, 3-4 carriers, 2 fax. + Fill fleet with alts on frigs to get 60 people in fleet. If you close it in one day you get 25x45 mil is + 250k LP (plus 10% bonus for most contributors) per each char. In best situation you can farm in such way for ~week, or at least 3-4 days. Closing each site that allows 60 people in fleet takes around 15 minutes in such setup. Maybe they have changed the incursions but the ones I've done have all been gated so no capitals in them.
ApolloF117 HUN Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels 54	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:51:05 - [2133] - Quote Now that we finally nerfed fighter damage output again, time to buff back thier application
Kalioria U.K.R.A.I.N.E SOLAR FLEET 4	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:53:00 - [2134] - Quote Axhind wrote: Maybe they have changed the incursions but the ones I've done have all been gated so no capitals in them. They are still gated, but in null sec gates have no limitations for what can pass it. Some guys jumped through with titans, but that was less effective than mothership. Accepting isk donations for ammo.
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 10	Posted - 2017.06.13 10:55:41 - [2135] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: Random Freak wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: Random Freak wrote: Destriouth Hollow wrote: True Sansha Dreads (the seldom faction kind) give 120mil bounties. . My bad then. Since i reside in Delve, i've only ever encountered the Bloodraider Dreads which are at 60m bounty. Thanks. You have the same in your region. They are just very rare and called "Dark Blood Dreadnought": https://zkillboard.com/ship/41397/ I did get those about 2 or 3 times since i have started flying a carrier, but i remember those being at 60m bounty (48m with ESS) and not 120m. You are talking about the "Blood Dreadnought" which is 60mil and not the "Dark Blood Dreadnought", which is 120mil. Here is the regular "Blood Dreadnought": https://zkillboard.com/ship/37463/ And learned something new. Thank you.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 115	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:01:40 - [2136] - Quote But knowing about these special faction Dreads wont help you much. They are about as common as Player Capitals in Highsec ^^
Valdr Auduin CatPack 13	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:03:07 - [2137] - Quote kortes272 wrote: remember this date guys,its historical moment when ccp killed eve online 4 ever... Another tick on the EVE death-o-meter?
Kortes Ellecon INSePaRaBLeS Wings Wanderers 4	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:06:23 - [2138] - Quote eve online 6 mai 2003--13 June 2017... R:I:P:::
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:10:49 - [2139] - Quote Kalioria wrote: Axhind wrote: Maybe they have changed the incursions but the ones I've done have all been gated so no capitals in them. They are still gated, but in null sec gates have no limitations for what can pass it. Some guys jumped through with titans, but that was less effective than mothership. Had no idea. Thanks for the info :)
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 21	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:12:17 - [2140] - Quote kortes272 wrote: remember this date guys,its historical moment when ccp killed eve online 4 ever... Remember the gloom of 9th June.

Tara Read Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 985	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:28:54 - [2141] - Quote It really begs the question what exactly is CCP's grand scheme for Eve Online? We've had zero meaningful content creation since the Introduction of Incursions, Wormholes, and Faction Warfare. Concepts and gameplay that has been in New Eden for the better part of what seven years? Phoebe was a restriction on force projection that since is still severely limiting on gameplay with the stacking of fatigue. It has been suggested that removing the fatigue timer and instead keepin the reactivation timer would solve many issues. Then we have the mind numbing excuse for Fozzie Sov and three RF timers on basic Astra's making any sort of war or attack simply a damned headache with Citadels literally turning into a cancerous endeavor followed by a sov system that is about as bland as rice cakes. Seriously when. PL cleared the North I spent more time spinning around on an Entosis Node and multiboxing a Rorqual than anything. There was NO engaged gameplay no exciting mechanic and it makes the entire system tedious. Which translates into what exactly? Regional City States buffered by multitudes of Citadels and a Sov system no one dares to truly engage in compounded by the mind numbing 8 to 10 hours deployments of any serious kind of force for any sort of deployment. What exactly did CCP think would happen? Without regional projection and a Sov system that is engaging along with no real sense of loss due to asset safety, the whole system and premise of combat seems stale and unimaginably droll. Marry this with a compounding fundamental shift in CCP's buiness model of micro Plex, skill injectors, micro transactions, and a forced approach to killing single player income streams, it is no wonder why CCP is pushing so hard to kill anyone's ability to make isk. Game design flaws, boring lack of innovation, and a pay to play model leaves the players with little to nothing to look forward too. Look at the slipping sales, the drop in subscriptions, the anger of seeing New Eden turned into a micro transaction playground where the blood, sweat, and tears of Capsuleers is thrown to the wind by nuPlex and Injectors. Where striving for skill plans and training lead to nerfed beheamoths, toothless Monsters that have been perceived in trailers and caught the eyes of sci fi buffs the world over only to see how fragile and truly weak Supers truly are. This is only the beginning. Titans will be next..and the next carrot on a stick. And the next Income generator. And the next. And the next. Never before has a ships pve ability outclassed it's design in a PvP reality. It rather is quite shocking to see just how utterly blind and pointless CCP makes these changes. I look forward to the next round of cuts and killing off of individual isk streams for the sake.of forcing us to buy Plex to fund twice a year PvP fights in a stale Universe.
Hilti Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 150	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:33:21 - [2142] - Quote Did these creep in: Exploration: The chance of obtaining a random escalation from certain high-level combat anomalies has been reduced somewhat. The drop rate of pirate faction battleship blueprints has been reduced across several NPCs.
Shannun Peoples Cauldron-Born Legion The Cauldron-Born 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:55:33 - [2143] - Quote unsubscribed... thanks for the 11 years of fun just to turn into a huge pile of crap... all for trying to force plex sales smdh
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18977	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:56:19 - [2144] - Quote Destriouth Hollow wrote: Such tools will get your account banned however (: CCP banned input broadcasting, they did not ban multiple clients on one screen.
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 7	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:57:56 - [2145] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Analius Glover wrote: which will reduce bounty for hardcore grinders and still will let casual players earn their money and have fun. Good job. Catering to the weak by intentionally crippling the strong. No surprise there, only brainfreezed human can have mentality so sickening and of anti progression. Have yourself locked in an institute for mentally degenerated. Please, favor to humanity. Do you have problems with reading or just mentally disabled? I am strongly aginst that changes especially reducing the carrier dps. CCP did it anyway so i think it would better solution then nerfing fighters. But still disappointing and unfair. There shoud be no restrictions in that matter.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18977	Posted - 2017.06.13 11:58:43 - [2146] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: baltec1 wrote: You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system. OK, proven. You don't have supercarrier and have no clue what you're talking about. You just made a fool of yourself in front of every supercarrier pilot who's ever used it for PVE. Well done. Only thing we can see here is you are bad at multitasking. It's not hard to baby sit a pair of ratting supers using this tool.
Destriouth Hollow Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk. 115	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:00:25 - [2147] - Quote What are you on about? They reduced it to 10% nerfing. I guess its ok now. It just went from an omg-rofl-stomp-nerf to a minor "meh"
Valdr Auduin CatPack 14	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:00:58 - [2148] - Quote Tara Read wrote: It really begs the question what exactly is CCP's grand scheme for Eve Online? We've had zero meaningful content creation since the Introduction of Incursions, Wormholes, and Faction Warfare. Concepts and gameplay that has been in New Eden for the better part of what seven years? Phoebe was a restriction on force projection that since is still severely limiting on gameplay with the stacking of fatigue. It has been suggested that removing the fatigue timer and instead keepingGÇï the reactivation timer would solve many issues. Then we have the mind numbing excuse for Fozzie Sov and three RF timers on basic Astra's making any sort of war or attack simply a damned headache with Citadels literally turning into a cancerous endeavor followed by a sov system that is about as bland as rice cakes. Seriously when PL cleared the North I spent more time spinning around on an Entosis Node and multiboxing a Rorqual than anything. There was NO engaged gameplay no exciting mechanic and it makes the entire system tedious. Which translates into what exactly? Regional City States buffered by multitudes of Citadels and a Sov system no one dares to truly engage in compounded by the mind numbing 8 to 10 hour deployments of any serious kind of force for any sort of deployment. What exactly did CCP think would happen? Without regional projection and a Sov system that is not engaging along with no real sense of loss due to asset safety, the whole system and premise of combat seems stale and unimaginably droll. Marry this with a compounding fundamental shift in CCP's buiness model of micro Plex, skill injectors, micro transactions, and a forced approach to killing single player income streams, it is no wonder why CCP is pushing so hard to kill anyone's ability to make isk. Game design flaws, boring lack of innovation, and a pay to play model leaves the players with little to nothing to look forward to. Look at the slipping sales, the drop in subscriptions, the anger of seeing New Eden turned into a micro transaction playground where the blood, sweat, and tears of Capsuleers is thrown to the wind by nuPlex and Injectors. Where striving for skill plans and training lead to nerfed beheamoths, toothless Monsters that have been perceived in trailers and caught the eyes of sci fi buffs the world over only to see how fragile and truly weak Supers truly are. This is only the beginning. Titans will be next..and the next carrot on a stick. And the next Income generator. And the next. And the next. Never before has a ships PVE ability outclassed it's design in a PvP reality. It rather is quite shocking to see just how utterly blind and pointless CCP makes these changes. I look forward to the next round of cuts and killing off of individual isk streams for the sake of forcing us to buy Plex to fund twice a year PvP fights in a stale Universe. Fyi I've never been a Doom and Gloom kinda person. I've always paid my subscriptions with real money because I believed in the work people put Into this game. Now I see profit procluding vision. I see bottom lines before behavior. I see our opinions and the very nature of New Eden itself being slowly chipped away. This isn't just one nerf..it's a compounding mindset and a refusal to heed players and treat us rather with Contempt as was seen by CCP Quant on Reddit. I personally have little faith in CCP righting this ship before it too strikes an iceberg and sinks to the bottom with other failed MMO's before it giving into greed instead of the love of it's players. Here I go again, Fozzie, read this ****: take your entosis nodes and turn them into PI capture nodes, let us either blow them up with all that orbital bombardment ammo still floating through the game and/or replace entosis with drop ship drones and reentry cap-troops. You can make PI a sub-RTS macro-game if it works out and people enjoy fighting over planets to gank SOV instead of ganking random-ass nodes in space. It's still your system, just better.
Mia Snow N8 Consulting 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:04:58 - [2149] - Quote Shannun Peoples wrote: unsubscribed... thanks for the 11 years of fun just to turn into a huge pile of crap... all for trying to force plex sales smdh can i..... haz.... .... kthxbai
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 593	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:07:14 - [2150] - Quote Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 23	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:08:47 - [2151] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: baltec1 wrote: You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system. OK, proven. You don't have supercarrier and have no clue what you're talking about. You just made a fool of yourself in front of every supercarrier pilot who's ever used it for PVE. Well done. Only thing we can see here is you are bad at multitasking. It's not hard to baby sit a pair of ratting supers using this tool. For someone who doesn't even rat in super you need to stop lecturing others on how superratting is done. No wonder PL is becoming irrelevant seeing it lets in trolls like yourself.
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 23	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:13:00 - [2152] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4110	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:17:20 - [2153] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. make your own content maybe? however you sound like you prefer the repetitive nature of grinding of the same npc's constantly, so much fun... Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16153	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:18:10 - [2154] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. Exactly what is stopping you from forming something bigger and more fun and going to kill someone? How in hell do people complain about having nothing to do in a game where you can do anything you want?
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 217	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:18:40 - [2155] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: baltec1 wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: baltec1 wrote: You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system. OK, proven. You don't have supercarrier and have no clue what you're talking about. You just made a fool of yourself in front of every supercarrier pilot who's ever used it for PVE. Well done. Only thing we can see here is you are bad at multitasking. It's not hard to baby sit a pair of ratting supers using this tool. For someone who doesn't even rat in super you need to stop lecturing others on how superratting is done. No wonder PL is becoming irrelevant seeing it lets in trolls like yourself. That's a bit harsh. I have no doubt using two supers is possible. I could do it if I had no self respect, so someone can probably do 3 or maybe even 4. Is it easy? Not so much, but definitely possible. I've seen people with astounding APM, and that's really the only thing preventing it.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 596	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:22:31 - [2156] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. Last major conflict was externally financed or wouldn't have happened at all. Wonder why. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Mip ONE Ghost Pixel IT'S ONLY PIXELS 7	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:32:04 - [2157] - Quote to be honest. give us changes to skill on everything and then nerf this again after all those peoples have skilled for. See the changes for ratting military lvl up and then telling-¦s people would make too much isk in pve like in caps by given that impression 1 account -¦s good enough to make isk-¦s best goal it is a carrier ore or super.Other acc-¦s. still scouting or doing something else but they wont make isk with this acc. so they still needing a isk backup for srp-¦ng a new ship that-¦s still expensive so they save up isk-¦s. And you wont make pve only .. it-¦s just for buying new pvp ship-¦s or plex ingame or whatver for. On Economic you telling us people would make to much isk-¦s but more interesting would be in which regions are they-¦re doing? o7
Valdr Auduin CatPack 16	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:36:46 - [2158] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. Last major conflict was externally financed or wouldn't have happened at all. Wonder why. Hence all the calls for SOV to be re-worked, the major assertion being that wars would happen again if the claims weren't so intractable.
Niraia Starcakes Shadow Cartel 534	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:39:31 - [2159] - Quote Where's the supporting data for the PVP nerf? Do you think PVE is more important than PVP? GÖÑ
Slivo Beehive Surveillance X877. 30	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:40:28 - [2160] - Quote Marcel Garsk wrote: Supposedly wormhole ticks are 1 bil ISK. Why don't CCP start from nerfing wormhole PvE??? lol. EveHQ Development Team Follow us on EveHQ.co \| Twitter \| Facebook

Ikshuki Aliastra Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:48:39 - [2161] - Quote She11by wrote: Summary: buy plexes by money not isks patch. agreed, if only CCP would realize we won't riot if plex were to be a non-market cash shop mechanic, currently what's really generating isk is not supercarrier ratting, it's PL controlling all incursion sites, then using the isk gained from incursions to quickly build super caps, then CCP goes super crazy on the number of anomalies active per system, so PL makes it a law for all members to farm every anomaly 23/7 gaining 800% more isk split between all members, then you add ghost sites that has way more rewards than that, and guess who will be controlling ghost sites? PL, it's like CCP slams a hammer against someone's head to fix a problem, then get surprised they killed them, CCP has no common sense anymore, either that, or CCP no longer has anyone hired on that knows how the game is structured anymore
Verlyn Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 97	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:55:31 - [2162] - Quote I made 6 bil worth of LP in about 6 hours playtime with Faction Warfare missions. Nerf FW missions next obviously too ? In fact, nerf every single isk generating option in the game, why dont you CCP ? You havent the slightest ******* idea how to fix the economy, you thing nerfing all isk making options one by one will make a difference, it's like trying to give a cure to something by fixing symptoms. Utter idiocy at best. This game will fall faster than I would've predicted, I give it a year tops. Was fun while it lasted. o7
Ikshuki Aliastra Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:58:14 - [2163] - Quote And CCP wonders why players quits or never increases their active player base. This change will literally turn carriers into super cap logis rendering fighters pointless. Better off just removing fighter bonuses from the bonus tab. Besides why is it a sin to run complexes in carriers? it's our ships, we grind grind and grind to build those ships, we deserve to take the risk of using them any way we want, i'm pretty sure you'll find some dummy trying to run complexes in a titan if you look hard enough, just to try and solo incursions, if ppl starts doing incursions solo in a tian, will that mean you'll nerf titans as well? where will it stop? How CCP should've handled the issue: 1. place ship restrictions on complexes in null with acceleration gates 2. reduce the rewards for running complexes 3. Remove ghost sites from the game you just implimented, since you don't want an isk faucet, ghost sites only encourages rapid isk generation 4. remove plex from in-game market and make plex a cash shop only vanity (apparently you want money) 5. nerf the number of combat sites active in one system by 50% in null, this is reasonably considering in null there can be up to 50 sites active in any given time which means a ton of isk being made 23/7 6. nerf incursion rewards by 10% on bounties
Valdr Auduin CatPack 17	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:58:52 - [2164] - Quote Verlyn wrote: I made 6 bil worth of LP in about 6 hours playtime with Faction Warfare missions. Nerf FW missions next obviously too ? In fact, nerf every single isk generating option in the game, why dont you CCP ? You havent the slightest ******* idea how to fix the economy, you think nerfing all isk making options one by one will make a difference, it's like trying to give a cure by fixing the symptoms. It's utter idiocy at best. This game will implode faster than I would've predicted, Im giving it a year tops before shutdown. Was fun while it lasted. o7 Judging by their behavior and everyone's analysis of it, CCP won't even read what you're saying in a positive light.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 596	Posted - 2017.06.13 12:59:39 - [2165] - Quote Verlyn wrote: I made 6 bil worth of LP in about 6 hours playtime with Faction Warfare missions. Nerf FW missions next obviously too ? In fact, nerf every single isk generating option in the game, why dont you CCP ? You havent the slightest ******* idea how to fix the economy, you think nerfing all isk making options one by one will make a difference, it's like trying to give a cure by fixing the symptoms. It's utter ignorance of the game at best, or utter idiocy at worst. This game will implode faster than I would've predicted, Im giving it a year tops before its shutdown. Was fun while it lasted. o7 Wasn't that always an option? "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Mary Timeshift Jane Perkone Caldari State 23	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:00:40 - [2166] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. make your own content maybe? however you sound like you prefer the repetitive nature of grinding of the same npc's constantly, so much fun... I FLIPPING WISH... to krab all isk is just the pillar of all the great content. Of getting all my friends titans and building keepstars everywhere, of conquering all of eve and under one epic conquest turning all other empires into dust, to become on par with gods eve haven't even seen yet... oh wait, my ability to fund something that epic is being nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, nerfed. So much for my own content.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3197	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:04:19 - [2167] - Quote Ikshuki wrote: it's PL controlling all incursion sites, then using the isk gained from incursions to quickly build super caps, then CCP goes super crazy on the number of anomalies active per system, so PL makes it a law for all members to farm every anomaly 23/7 gaining 800% more isk split between all members, then you add ghost sites that has way more rewards than that, and guess who will be controlling ghost sites? PL Oh wow, your tinfoil hat is on real tight. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 597	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:14:01 - [2168] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Ikshuki wrote: it's PL controlling all incursion sites, then using the isk gained from incursions to quickly build super caps, then CCP goes super crazy on the number of anomalies active per system, so PL makes it a law for all members to farm every anomaly 23/7 gaining 800% more isk split between all members, then you add ghost sites that has way more rewards than that, and guess who will be controlling ghost sites? PL Oh wow, your tinfoil hat is on real tight. You know it is a a PL conspiracy! "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Verlyn Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 100	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:19:38 - [2169] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Verlyn wrote: I made 6 bil worth of LP in about 6 hours playtime with Faction Warfare missions. Nerf FW missions next obviously too ? In fact, nerf every single isk generating option in the game, why dont you CCP ? You havent the slightest ******* idea how to fix the economy, you think nerfing all isk making options one by one will make a difference, it's like trying to give a cure by fixing the symptoms. It's utter ignorance of the game at best, or utter idiocy at worst. This game will implode faster than I would've predicted, Im giving it a year tops before its shutdown. Was fun while it lasted. o7 Wasn't that always an option? Besides 6bil worth of LP means only approx 3 if not 2.5 bil isk. If too many LP items appear on market it will regulate itself and you'll get even less isk. Not sure how you do it then ? That's why you build up slow and cash in smart, and not follow the crowd. Ive always managed to get a .8 or .9 bil for 1m LP.
venetistrader norie H S attack 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:22:14 - [2170] - Quote GUYS, I did see a lot of your post now. WHY DO YOU CRY?? JUST BUY THE PLAX AND THEY WILL BE HAPY :)

Verlyn Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 100	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:29:18 - [2171] - Quote venetistrader norie wrote: GUYS, I did see a lot of your post now. WHY DO YOU CRY?? JUST BUY THE PLAX AND THEY WILL BE HAPY :) Either this is sarcasm, Or you just dont know how human behaviour typically works with that kind of stuff when being forced to something but have the choice to leave...
maru karasu Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 16	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:30:54 - [2172] - Quote i suggest that CCP Add to ship bonus which reduces bounty to capital ship(Titan/MS/CV) if ccp can do.
izardx Madullier Kenshin. DARKNESS. 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 13:36:56 - [2173] - Quote what a joke, shame on you CCP!!!! you have ruined fighters for me !!! Im loosing more now then i used to! unfair!
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 160	Posted - 2017.06.13 14:12:54 - [2174] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. So that means 6.2% of players are mains, and 16.6% are their alts which are stuffed into a VNI/Ishtar to rat on their own, while the main is going in carrier/super. This data does not justify anything by itself, except of course confirming that eve PvE is a pile of stupid dung design-wise. CCP Larrikin wrote: Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. I can understand supers, but carriers? Remember, the multi-billion capital ship that has to run from a single griffin, rings any bells? And then of course you nerf regular carriers while barely touching supers. As usual, CCP duplicity (TM). CCP Larrikin wrote: We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. Oh I bet you are, I'm preparing popcorn when you announce NPCs now have 30% extra damage reduction from fighters, and try to defend this change as something that's ok. Oh well, your goon masters have recovered their coffers, time to remove everyone else from the competition.
venetistrader norie H S attack 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 14:25:51 - [2175] - Quote Verlyn wrote: venetistrader norie wrote: GUYS, I did see a lot of your post now. WHY DO YOU CRY?? JUST BUY THE PLAX AND THEY WILL BE HAPY :) Either this is sarcasm, Or you just dont know how human behaviour typically works with that kind of stuff when being forced to something but have the choice to leave... it is sarcasm
Heleana Commodus Luyseyal Old Town Blades of Grass 8	Posted - 2017.06.13 14:41:55 - [2176] - Quote CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone.
Marek Kanenald Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2017.06.13 14:46:29 - [2177] - Quote You guys still whining about this? Literally the only nerf that is left is a 10% light fighter basic damage nerf and a 20% heavy fighter basic damage nerf. Even the proposed rat aggro was scrapped. Wasn't this what you wanted?
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 10	Posted - 2017.06.13 14:50:39 - [2178] - Quote Marek Kanenald wrote: You guys still whining about this? Literally the only nerf that is left is a 10% light fighter basic damage nerf and a 20% heavy fighter basic damage nerf. Even the proposed rat aggro was scrapped. Wasn't this what you wanted? No. What we want is the isk faucet being fixed, not an arbitrary nerf that will only work short term. We want the underlying cause fixed, not the symptoms.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16154	Posted - 2017.06.13 14:59:13 - [2179] - Quote Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. CCP isn't and should not be responsible for people's bad gameplay choices. Like if someone finds a way to use a ship to make 3 billion isk per tick and I skill inject into that ship despite having enough sense to know that CCP is going to nerf that as soon as they are aware of it, CCP would owe me nothing when they fixed the thing i was stupid enough to spend money on. I still remain amazed at the fact the people can play EVE for years watching CCP ruthlessly nerf stuff that is too good and they STILL can't grasp the idea that going for the next big flavor of the month is a stupid idea.
Ikshuki Aliastra Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:02:33 - [2180] - Quote Ikshuki wrote: And CCP wonders why players quits or never increases their active player base. This change will literally turn carriers into super cap logis rendering fighters pointless. Better off just removing fighter bonuses from the bonus tab. Besides why is it a sin to run complexes in carriers? it's our ships, we grind grind and grind to build those ships, we deserve to take the risk of using them any way we want, i'm pretty sure you'll find some dummy trying to run complexes in a titan if you look hard enough, just to try and solo incursions, if ppl starts doing incursions solo in a tian, will that mean you'll nerf titans as well? where will it stop? How CCP should've handled the issue: 1. place ship restrictions on complexes in null with acceleration gates 2. reduce the rewards for running complexes 3. Remove ghost sites from the game you just implimented, since you don't want an isk faucet, ghost sites only encourages rapid isk generation 4. remove plex from in-game market and make plex a cash shop only vanity (apparently you want money) 5. nerf the number of combat sites active in one system by 50% in null, this is reasonably considering in null there can be up to 50 sites active in any given time which means a ton of isk being made 23/7 6. nerf incursion rewards by 10% on bounties but honestly, if we're looking at a complete revamp job on fighter drones and carrier mechanic, we need to consider doing the following to equal out the numbers spreadsheet: 1. if fighters will have 50% drone aggro to npcs, then let's consider Adding a drone bastion module that gives 50% bonus to all attributes including movement speed, and while bastion module is active, the supercarrier compromises active tank modules to divert all capacitor energy to boosting the drone's survivability rate 2. Add drone command busts up to 3 bursts active at once with a 5% drone damage reduction drawback per link active

Raz Tanta Lisnave Mordus Angels 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:06:55 - [2181] - Quote My dear CCP .. As you can see after you make thids great nerff to the carriers and f* the game at same players , you give a shoot again in your shoes ... HOW the f* is possibel in 15 minutes one of my friends do this valour in ISK in this new event rougue swarm ... You dont belive her eis the screen https://prnt.sc/fjajw2 ... So i thing is better you begin to realize you do s*** ... Dont come with historys about economy ... So what you gone say ???? I hope you give to all us a nice and correct answer... And this event is until June 27th...
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4110	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:10:12 - [2182] - Quote Raz Tanta wrote: My dear CCP .. As you can see after you make thids great nerff to the carriers and f* the game at same players , you give a shoot again in your shoes ... HOW the f* is possibel in 15 minutes one of my friends do this valour in ISK in this new event rougue swarm ... You dont belive her eis the screen https://prnt.sc/fjajw2 ... So i thing is better you begin to realize you do s*** ... Dont come with historys about economy ... So what you gone say ???? I hope you give to all us a nice and correct answer... And this event is until June 27th... you think he gonna be making that sort of money till the 27th? no, those skins will be worthless in a few hours when eu primetime hits Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Feracitus Rafix Enterprises CAStabouts 2	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:10:50 - [2183] - Quote The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6649	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:12:13 - [2184] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: Yes it is a systemic problem with 2 regions sticking out like sore thumbs. Top 10 regions for bounties. Delve 8.76918E+12 12.14% Deklein 4.46455E+12 6.18% Branch 3.11909E+12 4.32% Cobalt Edge 2.96567E+12 4.11% Outer Passage 2.66506E+12 3.69% Querious 2.6635E+12 3.69% Feythabolis 2.60413E+12 3.61% Period Basis 2.46879E+12 3.42% Providence 2.45647E+12 3.40% Esoteria 2.37196E+12 3.28% But like all of the over done crap in Null, if CCP ever try to fix it they will be greeted with a waves of tears so great as to make all that have come before it look like a drip in an ocean. Now the fact that CCP has caved in to the whining in such a huge manner to a massive alteration to the economy done by such a small number of people has shown everyone else that Null still rules supreme and will be given what ever they want if they cry enough about it. These changes were even approved by the CSM, yet since their change not one word has been uttered by a CSM member. Again, if it is systemic it is not "2 regions". What those two regions represent is what happens when you have an unbalanced class of ships and organized groups. The organized groups take advantage of the unbalanced ships. One could go, "Oh XXXX groups should not do that." But that is stupid wishful pie-in-the-sky thinking. People are going to respond to the incentives they encounter. Expecting them to not respond in this way is to expect people to not be people. At the end of the day, way too much ISK is entering the economy. From what regions or from whom is largely irrelevant. Because if you try to micro-manage it it probably won't work. What you are going to nerf the top 20 regions? Yeah, that's not going to cause people to quit also....that is just as discriminatory as the carrier/super nerf if not more so. This thread confirms my view of people in a collective decision making setting. People are short sighted, focused only on what is good for them, screw everyone else, and relying on faulty logic and idiocy. And people wonder why CCP ignores them. Because the vast majority of the views expressed here fall into this category. We have had people argue that a massive increase in the money supply won't cause inflation never mind all the examples to the contrary. We have had people argue the cost of their ship should dictate their ratting rewards which basically creates an incentive for everyone to carrier/supper rat thus exacerbating the problem. Then there are just the pure incoherent rage posts. Seriously, there have been a number of replies to me, "Yes, but it is your alliance causing the problem!" What does this mean, even if it were true? I'm calling for a nerf on this...and yeah, I'm in GSF. Most rational disinterested people would see it as lending credibility to my statements, but we have exactly the opposite in this thread. How can I not conclude that these people are just blinkered morons who'd shoot themselves in the foot and then proclaim they intended to do that, or even worse, blame somebody else. Seriously, scroll back and see how many GSF members here are complaining. I am not supporting them. I am saying exactly the opposite--this kind of growth in the money supply has to stop. This kind of growth in the money supply is way, way too large to let it continue. Sitting around going "Grrr Goons" might make you feel better, but it does nothing to address the problem. At all. Unless it is to bar/ban carriers and supers from ratting temporarily while a solution is found that preserves the PvP aspects of carriers and supers...if that is indeed a valid issue. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Toxic Yaken The Dickwad Squad Rote Kapelle 204	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:13:24 - [2185] - Quote Raz Tanta wrote: My dear CCP .. As you can see after you make thids great nerff to the carriers and f* the game at same players , you give a shoot again in your shoes ... HOW the f* is possibel in 15 minutes one of my friends do this valour in ISK in this new event rougue swarm ... You dont belive her eis the screen https://prnt.sc/fjajw2 ... So i thing is better you begin to realize you do s*** ... Dont come with historys about economy ... So what you gone say ???? I hope you give to all us a nice and correct answer... And this event is until June 27th... There's a difference between an isk faucet and loot drops... Curator of the Wardec Project - Join our Discord to join the discussions about Wardecs
Marek Kanenald Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:13:36 - [2186] - Quote Feracitus wrote: The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply. ....Or just nerf anomaly respawn times.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6649	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:17:08 - [2187] - Quote Feracitus wrote: The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply. ISK is already a synthetic commodity currency like bit coin. People convert electricity into bit coin, and people convert (leisure) time into ISK. With changes to carriers/supers it looks like it is "too easy" to convert (leisure) time into ISK. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ikshuki Aliastra Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:18:31 - [2188] - Quote Marek Kanenald wrote: Feracitus wrote: The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply. ....Or just nerf anomaly respawn times. exactly, not just nerf it, but to have forced acc gates that dictates what ships can pass, but then again, what was the point of having supercap npcs to fight if not to use capships to kill it? why couldn't the ghost sites just be limited to up to a deadnought
C0ATL Renegade Stars The Volition Cult 50	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:25:01 - [2189] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date.[/list] Noticed this part. I'll be paying special attention to this, because this is the area where everyone can get messed up. And you can bet that even after they bump capitals out of the anomalies they wont bother returning the 10% dmg they took. After all Carrier is just a sinonym for Cancer in CCP's dictionary as of late. They woudnt want to give cancer a fighting chance now, would they? :D Pathetic. * * * There have been many players that gave ideas on how to change PVE in order to not need the carrier nerfs. The following is my 2 cents: Gate every anomaly per ship class... with a variation of Hidden and Forsaken types for those who want more of a challenge for that particular class. Burrow/Hideaway/Refuge/Den + Hidden/Forsaken variations ---> Frigs Yard/ Rally Point/ Port + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Cruisers Hub + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Battlecruisers Haven/Sanctum ----> Battleships This way, you dont need to nerf the entire PVE bounties when you notice that a particular ship type is gaining too much ISK, or nerf the ship itself in pvp by extent. Just reduce bounties or modify NPCs in those particular sites. You would be setting yourself up for an easier tackle of such problems in the future. VNIs and Ishtars wont be able to just AFK rat in Havens and Sanctums --- Sure they will do it in the cruiser designated sites but for less bounty and players will also need to swap sites faster, thus forcing them to more active. Have a few exceptions that can go to all of the above mentioned sites, ignoring class restriction... I.E. T3 cruisers. That way when a group wants to raise their index after capturing territory they cant complain about being forced to play with frigs and whatnot. Now onto capitals: Create a new Anomaly Example: Blood Raider Capital Shipyard - restricted to carriers. Spawn 1 NPC dread + occasional waves of elite frigs and/or elite cruisers. Have the waves always aggro player ship instead of Fighters. That way players cant complain about their fighters being one-shotted by the dread while killing the additional spawns, and with the dread hitting a carrier constantly, it also presents a fair cap management and tanking challenge. From all people flying carriers atm, only a few manage to solo dreads and even then it can be problematic and time consuming -- and if multiple carriers enter the same anomaly to make it easier, the bounty gets split and thus, individual ticks are lowered. Multiboxing in carriers is brain melting anyway so you cant have 2nd or 3rd carrier alt helping you out so players would choose between working with a different player or attempting to solo. Make the frigs/cruiser waves put points on the player ship...that way players wont be able to just cherry-pick the Dread and move onto the next site or specialize their fighters only for taking out a capital ship. Finally Supercarriers: Just as with carriers, create a new anomally completely for them Example: Guristas Headquarters - solely restricted to Supercarriers. Guarded by 1 NPC titan spawn + periodic waves of elite frigates/cruisers and battleships. Same aggro rules as with the carrier site, but elite cruisers get to have the infinite point of HICs for obvious reasons. Now, before I get reprimanded -- yes, I am aware that atm an NPC Titan can be soloed by 1 dread and thus a supercarrier would eat it up immediately BUT the anomally titan does not need to have the same stats as the current NPC one that appears randomly nor should it have the same bounty. Numbers should be crunched and after careful thought and experimentation and player consultation, the anomaly titan spawn should have stats that --just as a current NPC dread does to carriers -- offers a challenge to a supercarrier. I would even include a tweaked doomsday, if it were up to me. * * * In the end, if implemented in a balanced way for both players and game economy, such a project would: -Offer players a satisfying experience depending on the ship class they prefer to use - To a very small extent, reduce the impact of AFK cruiser ratting.... - Make capital and supercapital pilots not feel like they are stepping on ants while ratting due to the complete lack of a challenge in Havens and Sanctums. - Increase the risk of capital ratting by having NPCs focus Carriers and Supercarriers with points and infinite scram, respectively. (Also, if anomalies are gated, a player cant warp to a prefered/safe distance from the site so that he can take out all point-equipped ships before they even get a chance to hold him.) - Allow CCP to more easily tweak only the problematic side of PVE if their current predicament surfaces again in the future, instead of all of it (like overall reduction in bounties) ...or in a way that affects PVP. * Yes, this would mean them needing to put out some effort in terms of tweaking or new anomaly design... And I'm sure that people will find flaws with the above portrayed ideas. But its better than tearing down the whole nullsec pve and starting from the ground up... not to mention its much more realistic to achieve rather than a complete overhaul of PVE -- or not doing anything at all. THINK CCP.... THINK! Give us something or ask the community if you are out of ideas but start FIXING your game properly! Until such a time, my accounts remain unsubed. :/ o7
Cargo Inspector Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:27:28 - [2190] - Quote If CCP had just said "We think Carriers and Super Carriers are too strong in PVP" and applied the 10% reduction to lights and 20% to heavies, would there have been this much rage? I get the impression that the focus on the justification of changing it for PVE just made everyone flip ****. They were obviously trying to just get two birds with one stone.

Traxanas Suruklemes MALAKOMAGNITES Integritas Constans 1	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:29:56 - [2191] - Quote so let me get this str8. you need to contain the income from the carrier ratting faucet cause all the rest are near obsolete. (that's how good you are @ balancing so far). so Nerf the effective damage of your indicating ship type being used. 10%? the only thing you achieved is make us rat 10% more in order to hit the plex mark or whatever goal anyone has. personally i rat lika boss with 4 carriers simultaneously. if u read my previus comments on a realtive nerf topic << i play the piano on my keyboard>> (thenk's for shortcuts by the way). i haven't lost a carrier since i started ratting cause im as careful as one might get in null. i bet there are allot like me out there. so my point is. do you even plan these changes or you just playing with your player base? what you actually did is increase play time for players by 10%. that's not allot. even if it whould be 20%, still it whouldnt be enough. your problem will still be there, the money will still flow out of thin air and then you need to rethink this again. the faucet is there and will run like crazy. but something tells me youre gonna hit carriers once more so ill ratt even harder to save up for whatever dump crap solution you folks come up in the future. peace.
Ikshuki Aliastra Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:33:44 - [2192] - Quote Traxanas Suruklemes wrote: so let me get this str8. you need to contain the income from the carrier ratting faucet cause all the rest are near obsolete. (that's how good you are @ balancing so far). so Nerf the effective damage of your indicating ship type being used. 10%? the only thing you achieved is make us rat 10% more in order to hit the plex mark or whatever goal anyone has. personally i rat lika boss with 4 carriers simultaneously. if u read my previus comments on a realtive nerf topic << i play the piano on my keyboard>> (thenk's for shortcuts by the way). i haven't lost a carrier since i started ratting cause im as careful as one might get in null. i bet there are allot like me out there. so my point is. do you even plan these changes or you just playing with your player base? what you actually did is increase play time for players by 10%. that's not allot. even if it whould be 20%, still it whouldnt be enough. your problem will still be there, the money will still flow out of thin air and then you need to rethink this again. the faucet is there and will run like crazy. but something tells me youre gonna hit carriers once more so ill ratt even harder to save up for whatever dump crap solution you folks come up in the future. peace. hey stop giving them ideas
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 365	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:38:13 - [2193] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. make your own content maybe? however you sound like you prefer the repetitive nature of grinding of the same npc's constantly, so much fun... And that is coming from someone hiding in NPC stations and space. No wonder you like fozzie, his biggest contribution is worthless sov and interceptors who's only counter is 6 titans with SBs on a gate.
Huren Ogeko Silver Guardians DARKNESS. 3	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:39:32 - [2194] - Quote izardx Madullier wrote: what a joke, shame on you CCP!!!! you have ruined fighters for me !!! Im loosing more now then i used to! unfair! You do realize that the fighter aggro nerf never happened. So if you are losing more fighters now then you were before then it has nothing to do with the nerfs here only the way you are deploying them now compared to before.
Huren Ogeko Silver Guardians DARKNESS. 3	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:45:26 - [2195] - Quote On a side note I am wondering how badly this nerf is really affecting ratting. One of my corp mates reported this morning that his has the same ticks now as before and the only change is takes 2-3 volley's to take out a battleship now. Pre-patch he showed an average of 102mil ticks and after patch his first tick was around 106 mil. Maybe this nerf took away the overkill making less dps wasted on small ships and did little to affect the overall site times. Does anyone else have any hard results in how it affects their ratting?
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4110	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:46:25 - [2196] - Quote Axhind wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. make your own content maybe? however you sound like you prefer the repetitive nature of grinding of the same npc's constantly, so much fun... And that is coming from someone hiding in NPC stations and space. No wonder you like fozzie, his biggest contribution is worthless sov and interceptors who's only counter is 6 titans with SBs on a gate. hiding in npc stations...thats cute, didnt you guys hide in lowsec npc space during wwb? Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kaze Mester Ascendance Goonswarm Federation 53	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:52:22 - [2197] - Quote Just delete anomalies from the game. And PI. And mining belts ofc. Oh..and don't forget about relic and data sites! Give players x ammount of isk every month to play with. Let us only buy ships with plex! Kill player owned markets on citadels. I have planty more awesome CCP like ideas in my pocket! Pm me CCP! Or give me a call! Waiting! XOXO
Ikshuki Aliastra Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:58:02 - [2198] - Quote Huren Ogeko wrote: On a side note I am wondering how badly this nerf is really affecting ratting. One of my corp mates reported this morning that his has the same ticks now as before and the only change is takes 2-3 volley's to take out a battleship now. Pre-patch he showed an average of 102mil ticks and after patch his first tick was around 106 mil. Maybe this nerf took away the overkill making less dps wasted on small ships and did little to affect the overall site times. Does anyone else have any hard results in how it affects their ratting? did you forget the 50% fighter drone aggro effect? that means the rats can randomly all aggro one drone and kill it in half a second, or web it to ****
Random Freak Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team 12	Posted - 2017.06.13 15:59:50 - [2199] - Quote Ikshuki wrote: Huren Ogeko wrote: On a side note I am wondering how badly this nerf is really affecting ratting. One of my corp mates reported this morning that his has the same ticks now as before and the only change is takes 2-3 volley's to take out a battleship now. Pre-patch he showed an average of 102mil ticks and after patch his first tick was around 106 mil. Maybe this nerf took away the overkill making less dps wasted on small ships and did little to affect the overall site times. Does anyone else have any hard results in how it affects their ratting? did you forget the 50% fighter drone aggro effect? that means the rats can randomly all aggro one drone and kill it in half a second, or web it to **** According to the patch notes, it was 15% also, it was not implemented. And I have yet to hear different from my corp mates.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 365	Posted - 2017.06.13 16:04:55 - [2200] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Axhind wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Looking at the arguments in this thread "Mah super cost me 27 bil y u nurf it?!?!" "I nvested x amount of moneyz now the sand box is mine!" "Nerf them not me!" "Blame the game not the player!" "I've made 50 alts now I deserve eternal bliss!" etc. In case anyone wonders in the future why CCP (or any other company) goes pay 2 win... as long as the players pick isk making over game balance it can't ever go towards gameplay. Simply because that is what the player base asks for. What gameplay is there to pick? Those frigate, occasionally cruiser, roams most people are doing most of the time? So much fun.. are they, not. make your own content maybe? however you sound like you prefer the repetitive nature of grinding of the same npc's constantly, so much fun... And that is coming from someone hiding in NPC stations and space. No wonder you like fozzie, his biggest contribution is worthless sov and interceptors who's only counter is 6 titans with SBs on a gate. hiding in npc stations...thats cute, didnt you guys hide in lowsec npc space during wwb? Just took entire rest of the eve and illegal casino money to do it. What is your excuse?

Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 4110	Posted - 2017.06.13 16:26:06 - [2201] - Quote Axhind wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Axhind wrote: And that is coming from someone hiding in NPC stations and space. No wonder you like fozzie, his biggest contribution is worthless sov and interceptors who's only counter is 6 titans with SBs on a gate. hiding in npc stations...thats cute, didnt you guys hide in lowsec npc space during wwb? Just took entire rest of the eve and illegal casino money to do it. What is your excuse? I'm scared of people shooting me Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Beidorion eldwardan Corporation Danmark Tactical Narcotics Team 42	Posted - 2017.06.13 16:36:50 - [2202] - Quote See this is how you communicate thanks CCP
Verlyn Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 101	Posted - 2017.06.13 16:38:07 - [2203] - Quote C0ATL wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date.[/list] Noticed this part. I'll be paying special attention to this, because this is the area where everyone can get messed up. And you can bet that even after they bump capitals out of the anomalies they wont bother returning the 10% dmg they took. After all Carrier is just a sinonym for Cancer in CCP's dictionary as of late. They woudnt want to give cancer a fighting chance now, would they? :D Pathetic. * * * There have been many players that gave ideas on how to change PVE in order to not need the carrier nerfs. The following is my 2 cents: Gate every anomaly per ship class... with a variation of Hidden and Forsaken types for those who want more of a challenge for that particular class. Burrow/Hideaway/Refuge/Den + Hidden/Forsaken variations ---> Frigs Yard/ Rally Point/ Port + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Cruisers Hub + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Battlecruisers Haven/Sanctum ----> Battleships This way, you dont need to nerf the entire PVE bounties when you notice that a particular ship type is gaining too much ISK, or nerf the ship itself in pvp by extent. Just reduce bounties or modify NPCs in those particular sites. You would be setting yourself up for an easier tackle of such problems in the future. VNIs and Ishtars wont be able to just AFK rat in Havens and Sanctums --- Sure they will do it in the cruiser designated sites but for less bounty and players will also need to swap sites faster, thus forcing them to more active. Have a few exceptions that can go to all of the above mentioned sites, ignoring class restriction... I.E. T3 cruisers. That way when a group wants to raise their index after capturing territory they cant complain about being forced to play with frigs and whatnot. Now onto capitals: Create a new Anomaly Example: Blood Raider Capital Shipyard - restricted to carriers. Spawn 1 NPC dread + occasional waves of elite frigs and/or elite cruisers. Have the waves always aggro player ship instead of Fighters. That way players cant complain about their fighters being one-shotted by the dread while killing the additional spawns, and with the dread hitting a carrier constantly, it also presents a fair cap management and tanking challenge. From all people flying carriers atm, only a few manage to solo dreads and even then it can be problematic and time consuming -- and if multiple carriers enter the same anomaly to make it easier, the bounty gets split and thus, individual ticks are lowered. Multiboxing in carriers is brain melting anyway so you cant have 2nd or 3rd carrier alt helping you out so players would choose between working with a different player or attempting to solo. Make the frigs/cruiser waves put points on the player ship...that way players wont be able to just cherry-pick the Dread and move onto the next site or specialize their fighters only for taking out a capital ship. Finally Supercarriers: Just as with carriers, create a new anomally completely for them Example: Guristas Headquarters - solely restricted to Supercarriers. Guarded by 1 NPC titan spawn + periodic waves of elite frigates/cruisers and battleships. Same aggro rules as with the carrier site, but elite cruisers get to have the infinite point of HICs for obvious reasons. Now, before I get reprimanded -- yes, I am aware that atm an NPC Titan can be soloed by 1 dread and thus a supercarrier would eat it up immediately BUT the anomally titan does not need to have the same stats as the current NPC one that appears randomly nor should it have the same bounty. Numbers should be crunched and after careful thought and experimentation and player consultation, the anomaly titan spawn should have stats that --just as a current NPC dread does to carriers -- offers a challenge to a supercarrier. I would even include a tweaked doomsday, if it were up to me. * * * In the end, if implemented in a balanced way for both players and game economy, such a project would: -Offer players a satisfying experience depending on the ship class they prefer to use - To a very small extent, reduce the impact of AFK cruiser ratting.... - Make capital and supercapital pilots not feel like they are stepping on ants while ratting due to the complete lack of a challenge in Havens and Sanctums. - Increase the risk of capital ratting by having NPCs focus Carriers and Supercarriers with points and infinite scram, respectively. (Also, if anomalies are gated, a player cant warp to a prefered/safe distance from the site so that he can take out all point-equipped ships before they even get a chance to hold him.) - Allow CCP to more easily tweak only the problematic side of PVE if their current predicament surfaces again in the future, instead of all of it (like overall reduction in bounties) ...or in a way that affects PVP. * Yes, this would mean them needing to put out some effort in terms of balancing or new anomaly design... And I'm sure that people will find some flaws with the above portrayed ideas. But its better than tearing down the whole nullsec pve and starting from the ground up... not to mention its much more realistic to achieve rather than a complete overhaul of PVE -- or not doing anything at all. THINK CCP.... THINK! Give us something or ask the community if you are out of ideas but start FIXING your game properly! Until such a time, my accounts remain unsubed. :/ o7 This.
Cpt WhiteEye Death Guard's Cull Mordus Angels 15	Posted - 2017.06.13 16:50:35 - [2204] - Quote So what did actually change: I lost 1500 dps on my Hel Before patch it took me around 4 minutes to finish a Combat site. After path it takes me 4 minutes to finish the same site. CCP NEVER USED A SUPER FOR RATTING AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO RAT WITH THEM. Im pretty sure this sums up the patch. PS: Almost forgot rorquals got yet another nefr. They are so useless now its well worth spending 10b on one.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6649	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:17:05 - [2205] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. CCP isn't and should not be responsible for people's bad gameplay choices. Like if someone finds a way to use a ship to make 3 billion isk per tick and I skill inject into that ship despite having enough sense to know that CCP is going to nerf that as soon as they are aware of it, CCP would owe me nothing when they fixed the thing i was stupid enough to spend money on. I still remain amazed at the fact the people can play EVE for years watching CCP ruthlessly nerf stuff that is too good and they STILL can't grasp the idea that going for the next big flavor of the month is a stupid idea. In fact, this is so wildly imbalancing that if somebody found this out, did not tell CCP and kept doing it...ban the feck out of them. And people jumping on and taking advantage of it...ban the feck out of them too. This is EXACTLY happened to people who were taking advantage of the moon goo bug about 8 or 9 years ago. They noticed that they could get a silo full of reacted moon goo if they set up the connections in a POS in a certain order. No waiting and reacitng, BOOM, instant silo of moon goo. And they used it for quite some time and finally the jig was up and CCP hit a number of people with the ban hammer. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6649	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:22:17 - [2206] - Quote C0ATL wrote: And you can bet that even after they bump capitals out of the anomalies they wont bother returning the 10% dmg they took. After all Carrier is just a sinonym for Cancer in CCP's dictionary as of late. They woudnt want to give cancer a fighting chance now, would they? :D Pathetic. * * * There have been many players that gave ideas on how to change PVE in order to not need the carrier nerfs. The following is my 2 cents: Gate every anomaly per ship class... with a variation of Hidden and Forsaken types for those who want more of a challenge for that particular class. Burrow/Hideaway/Refuge/Den + Hidden/Forsaken variations ---> Frigs Yard/ Rally Point/ Port + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Cruisers Hub + Hidden/Forsaken variations ----> Battlecruisers Haven/Sanctum ----> Battleships This way, you dont need to nerf the entire PVE bounties when you notice that a particular ship type is gaining too much ISK, or nerf the ship itself in pvp by extent. Just reduce bounties or modify NPCs in those particular sites. You would be setting yourself up for an easier tackle of such problems in the future. VNIs and Ishtars wont be able to just AFK rat in Havens and Sanctums --- Sure they will do it in the cruiser designated sites but for less bounty and players will also need to swap sites faster, thus forcing them to more active. Have a few exceptions that can go to all of the above mentioned sites, ignoring class restriction... I.E. T3 cruisers. That way when a group wants to raise their index after capturing territory they cant complain about being forced to play with frigs and whatnot. Now onto capitals: Create a new Anomaly Example: Blood Raider Capital Shipyard - restricted to carriers. Spawn 1 NPC dread + occasional waves of elite frigs and/or elite cruisers. Have the waves always aggro player ship instead of Fighters. That way players cant complain about their fighters being one-shotted by the dread while killing the additional spawns, and with the dread hitting a carrier constantly, it also presents a fair cap management and tanking challenge. From all people flying carriers atm, only a few manage to solo dreads and even then it can be problematic and time consuming -- and if multiple carriers enter the same anomaly to make it easier, the bounty gets split and thus, individual ticks are lowered. Multiboxing in carriers is brain melting anyway so you cant have 2nd or 3rd carrier alt helping you out so players would choose between working with a different player or attempting to solo. Make the frigs/cruiser waves put points on the player ship...that way players wont be able to just cherry-pick the Dread and move onto the next site or specialize their fighters only for taking out a capital ship. Finally Supercarriers: Just as with carriers, create a new anomally completely for them Example: Guristas Headquarters - solely restricted to Supercarriers. Guarded by 1 NPC titan spawn + periodic waves of elite frigates/cruisers and battleships. Same aggro rules as with the carrier site, but elite cruisers get to have the infinite point of HICs for obvious reasons. Now, before I get reprimanded -- yes, I am aware that atm an NPC Titan can be soloed by 1 dread and thus a supercarrier would eat it up immediately BUT the anomally titan does not need to have the same stats as the current NPC one that appears randomly nor should it have the same bounty. Numbers should be crunched and after careful thought and experimentation and player consultation, the anomaly titan spawn should have stats that --just as a current NPC dread does to carriers -- offers a challenge to a supercarrier. I would even include a tweaked doomsday, if it were up to me. * * * In the end, if implemented in a balanced way for both players and game economy, such a project would: -Offer players a satisfying experience depending on the ship class they prefer to use - To a very small extent, reduce the impact of AFK cruiser ratting.... - Make capital and supercapital pilots not feel like they are stepping on ants while ratting due to the complete lack of a challenge in Havens and Sanctums. - Increase the risk of capital ratting by having NPCs focus Carriers and Supercarriers with points and infinite scram, respectively. (Also, if anomalies are gated, a player cant warp to a prefered/safe distance from the site so that he can take out all point-equipped ships before they even get a chance to hold him.) - Allow CCP to more easily tweak only the problematic side of PVE if their current predicament surfaces again in the future, instead of all of it (like overall reduction in bounties) ...or in a way that affects PVP. * Yes, this would mean them needing to put out some effort in terms of balancing or new anomaly design... And I'm sure that people will find some flaws with the above portrayed ideas. But its better than tearing down the whole nullsec pve and starting from the ground up... not to mention its much more realistic to achieve rather than a complete overhaul of PVE -- or not doing anything at all. THINK CCP.... THINK! Give us something or ask the community if you are out of ideas but start FIXING your game properly! Until such a time, my accounts remain unsubed. :/ o7 While I have not sat down and looked at your solution and so forth, I am not opposed to this out of necessity, but and this is a big fat but, something must be done to slow done the growth of ISK right now. Waiting 2-3 months or longer won't cut it. So some sort of nerf is a near immediate requirement. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
CaZio RELAXED 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:23:16 - [2207] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved where is my f...g DISLIKE button?? i had just ordered a Rorq two weeks ago..... thanks for changes i do ratting in a Carrier as well but since there are so many other guys doing Sanctums - Heavens and F-hubs in Battleships AFK and blocking the Anos for carriers you should better nerf them instead going on our nerves. And regarding the money thing... may be you check out for yourself how much a PLEX was a couple of years ago...or just 1 year ago and how much it is now!!! so there IS some compensation CCP ...belive it or not... may be it should be a good idea to play your own game sometimes... When i started EvE in 2006 a plex was 300mil 3 weeks ago it was 1,2 BIL now after your glorious changes it is near to 1,4BIL ... Before we skilled DRONES to 5 to use them in Anos...after you nerfed Carriers most of the Skilltime was for nothing...did we get anything in return for the wasted time? yeah...another nerf... THX
CaZio RELAXED 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:30:08 - [2208] - Quote ohhh btw... how about fixing the servers... its really ANOYING if in a fleet and the server crashes and for 20min there is no relog possible like 4 days ago??? I understand your IT staff has to prove they are still nescesary, otherwise they will loose their jobs... so off to the servers and make sure we are not loosing just 5bil of Excavator drones or ships because of this incidents...i guess thats much more importand as nerfes every month ;)
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18982	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:31:55 - [2209] - Quote Cpt WhiteEye wrote: So what did actually change: I lost 1500 dps on my Hel Before patch it took me around 4 minutes to finish a Combat site. After path it takes me 4 minutes to finish the same site. CCP NEVER USED A SUPER FOR RATTING AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO RAT WITH THEM. Im pretty sure this sums up the patch. PS: Almost forgot rorquals got yet another nefr. They are so useless now its well worth spending 10b on one. Now you see why they wanted to do the bigger nerf.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 35115	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:39:37 - [2210] - Quote Maybe if all the bounties would be moving from killed anomaly pirates to a carrier that is doing the killing, people would actually hunt more for those carriers. How to move bounties to make them claimable by others? Maybe chips that fill with data of pirates automatically as they are killed? And they would appear in cargo space of carrier. Then they would have to be transported to a location to be sold. Bounty chips for null. \o/ Or just those tags that you have to collect like in some missions. ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6649	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:46:25 - [2211] - Quote CaZio wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved where is my f...g DISLIKE button?? i had just ordered a Rorq two weeks ago..... thanks for changes i do ratting in a Carrier as well but since there are so many other guys doing Sanctums - Heavens and F-hubs in Battleships AFK and blocking the Anos for carriers you should better nerf them instead going on our nerves. And regarding the money thing... may be you check out for yourself how much a PLEX was a couple of years ago...or just 1 year ago and how much it is now!!! so there IS some compensation CCP ...belive it or not... may be it should be a good idea to play your own game sometimes... When i started EvE in 2006 a plex was 300mil 3 weeks ago it was 1,2 BIL now after your glorious changes it is near to 1,4BIL ... Before we skilled DRONES to 5 to use them in Anos...after you nerfed Carriers most of the Skilltime was for nothing...did we get anything in return for the wasted time? yeah...another nerf... THX Translation: Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,!!! "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6649	Posted - 2017.06.13 17:52:38 - [2212] - Quote Kaze Mester wrote: Just delete anomalies from the game. And PI. And mining belts ofc. Oh..and don't forget about relic and data sites! Give players x ammount of isk every month to play with. Let us only buy ships with plex! Kill player owned markets on citadels. I have planty more awesome CCP like ideas in my pocket! Pm me CCP! Or give me a call! Waiting! XOXO That is some strong shiptoasting. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6650	Posted - 2017.06.13 18:00:32 - [2213] - Quote Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy. Or how about this: CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 365	Posted - 2017.06.13 18:37:16 - [2214] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy. Or how about this: CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting? White knighting for CCP must be a new low for AMOK.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6652	Posted - 2017.06.13 18:40:30 - [2215] - Quote Axhind wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy. Or how about this: CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting? White knighting for CCP must be a new low for AMOK. Wanting something for nothing is pathetic. Ignoring the huge problem sitting in front of you is stupid. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Valdr Auduin CatPack 19	Posted - 2017.06.13 18:46:22 - [2216] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. CCP isn't and should not be responsible for people's bad gameplay choices. Like if someone finds a way to use a ship to make 3 billion isk per tick and I skill inject into that ship despite having enough sense to know that CCP is going to nerf that as soon as they are aware of it, CCP would owe me nothing when they fixed the thing i was stupid enough to spend money on. I still remain amazed at the fact the people can play EVE for years watching CCP ruthlessly nerf stuff that is too good and they STILL can't grasp the idea that going for the next big flavor of the month is a stupid idea. Isn't this supposed to be a game with virtually no "bad gameplay choices"?
Melisa Zeal Deaf Eaters Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2017.06.13 18:46:40 - [2217] - Quote This didn't impact carrier pvp at all. The only thing this accomplished was hurt the people who rat in carriers.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 19	Posted - 2017.06.13 18:52:08 - [2218] - Quote Feracitus wrote: The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply. They could just make NPCs start getting involved in the economy, we already have NPC miners now, why not NPC ratters that CCP can use to fluff the market by forcing the AI to set floors on the prices?
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 16158	Posted - 2017.06.13 18:54:17 - [2219] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. CCP isn't and should not be responsible for people's bad gameplay choices. Like if someone finds a way to use a ship to make 3 billion isk per tick and I skill inject into that ship despite having enough sense to know that CCP is going to nerf that as soon as they are aware of it, CCP would owe me nothing when they fixed the thing i was stupid enough to spend money on. I still remain amazed at the fact the people can play EVE for years watching CCP ruthlessly nerf stuff that is too good and they STILL can't grasp the idea that going for the next big flavor of the month is a stupid idea. Isn't this supposed to be a game with virtually no "bad gameplay choices"? Who in the five hells ever said that? And even if someone did, how could it possibly be misconstrued into the idea that CCP must be responsible for people bad gameplay actions? If you skill inject into a flavor of the month thing because everyone is doing it when you KNOW that CCP is well known and notorious for nerfing things like that, that's no one's fault but your own. This is why I own neither Rorqual nor Super Carrier (no offence intended to intelligent Rorq and SuperCap pilots, ALL Offense intended to the stupid ones).
Valdr Auduin CatPack 19	Posted - 2017.06.13 19:03:11 - [2220] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Maybe if all the bounties would be moving from killed anomaly pirates to a carrier that is doing the killing, people would actually hunt more for those carriers. How to move bounties to make them claimable by others? Maybe chips that fill with data of pirates automatically as they are killed? And they would appear in cargo space of carrier. Then they would have to be transported to a location to be sold. Bounty chips for null. \o/ Or just those tags that you have to collect like in some missions. I like it, make bounty operate like an actual bounty.

Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 89	Posted - 2017.06.13 19:05:55 - [2221] - Quote Mossyblog Barnes wrote: Cismet wrote: Mossyblog Barnes wrote: sigh Can you please hire a someone who understands statistical analysis. Taking a "snapshot" from 5 days in "June" is like looking at your bank account during St Paddys day and declaring you have a years worth of drinking behaviour. Qualitative Analysis. Please please get a book on this and come back to us with some concrete evidence that doesn't orbit Delve and Goons. Actually, 5 days would be a fine sample to use given the number of people playing during the period. It would be over 150k people in the sample given an average 35k online in any given day, likely more over a timezone rolling period. The sample size is more than adequate to be representative within a single-digit margin of error with ease. More data would be nice, but ultimately, it'll only likely be a few percent off in either direction. This implies the data has stability and equates to a consistent median behaviour... .. which...we all can surely see is not the case? Statistics wasn't your fort+¬ was it? With a sample size of data, the larger the sample size, the closer you will get to the ideal spread of that data in reality. Or to put it another way, a sample size of 100% of the available data will match exactly with the observed results because it will be the actual data. 50% of the data as a set taken randomly from all the available data will get you pretty close to the actual behaviour when modelled. Generally speaking, the more data you have the better your statistical model will match with the reality in observation from the whole possible dataset, but over 150k data points will give you a pretty close approximation as long as you've taken it at random. The data was for the whole of the first five days across the whole game (excluding wormholes which don't give any bounties) and so should be fairly representative of the month as a whole. Well, unless the whole game somehow steps up their ratting for the last 5 days of the month just to mess with CCP. I can't see it myself, but you never know now.....
Marcel Garsk 5	Posted - 2017.06.13 19:06:30 - [2222] - Quote Hi, guys! How are your today's ticks?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6654	Posted - 2017.06.13 19:24:53 - [2223] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Feracitus wrote: The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply. They could just make NPCs start getting involved in the economy, we already have NPC miners now, why not NPC ratters that CCP can use to fluff the market by forcing the AI to set floors on the prices? Why? The way bitcoin works is not applicable to this game. Bitcoin creation is governed by an algorithm. With respect to ISK CCP wants players to play the game and produce ISK, but it can't be too much or too little. Too much and inflation can get out of hand. Too little and deflation can curb stomp the economy. Inflation has the potential for a positive feedback loop, and deflation a negative one. That is, this system may not be self-correcting. Most market activities are self-correcting in that once you start to incur losses it is just a matter of time before you have to stop. Profits will ensure people keep going and provide and incentive for people to get into that market and pursue innovation and invention. Money has always been a tricky thing in economies in that governments rarely can keep their damn hands off of it, thus often mucking it up more than stabilizing things. Case in point, CCP revamped carriers and supers and turned them into ISK printers. Where a small number of players can create as much ISK as a much, much larger number of players. And there have been other instances where governments have screwed up money and prices. The most recent example is Venezuela where hyperinflation and price controls have destroyed the economy and people are going hungry in a nation rich with natural resources. To CCP's credit they see the problem: too much ISK coming into the economy. One can argue their suggested fix is good or bad, but that much ISK entering the economy cannot be allowed to continue. This isn't an issue with an ISK faucet it is an ISK fire hose. consider this...the amount of new ISK created was around 64 trillion. The overall total amount of ISK is a bit over 1 quadrillion. The previous amounts of ISK entering the economy was around 9.5T ISK/month. So, at that rate to double the amount of ISK in game it would take 105 months or 8 years and 9 months. Last month 64 trillion ISK entered the economy. The amount of ISK in game would double in 1 year and 3.5 months. It took 67 months to add 620T ISK to the game. Now we'll do it in just under 10 months. With absolutely no negative consequences? Now we'll add NPCs to the market...why? What is this going to accomplish? Again: Just turn off the ISK fire host. That is the most simple and elegant solution. No need to dance around implementing silly ideas. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Cismet Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 90	Posted - 2017.06.13 19:41:38 - [2224] - Quote Huren Ogeko wrote: On a side note I am wondering how badly this nerf is really affecting ratting. One of my corp mates reported this morning that his has the same ticks now as before and the only change is takes 2-3 volley's to take out a battleship now. Pre-patch he showed an average of 102mil ticks and after patch his first tick was around 106 mil. Maybe this nerf took away the overkill making less dps wasted on small ships and did little to affect the overall site times. Does anyone else have any hard results in how it affects their ratting? You won't get any accurate data on that. People will base the answers on their feelings, much like the placebo effect. The only way to get data would be from CCP. I would hope that CCP might release some figures in a weeks time at the delta for bounties as a percentage over the timeframe, but people's perception of their bounty changes will rarely marry up with the data.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 19	Posted - 2017.06.13 19:44:09 - [2225] - Quote Teckos, stop rambling and propose a solution that limits the printability of carriers without destroying their combat ability, that or demonstrate that even under a full nerf the combat ability isn't actually being harmed and the reduction is really necessary for PvP purposes as well. I'm an invisible hand advocate so all of your economics flourishes don't really sway me at all, active interference in markets ruins everything they're supposed to do.
Agfro Er Secret Wormhole Authority Group 18	Posted - 2017.06.13 20:08:30 - [2226] - Quote Thank you for scaling back some of the damage nerfs. I actually kinda like the nerf to fighter dps (as long as it's low to moderate) because it makes support fighters more valuable to launch. Please consider buffing the fighter's hit points or something like that if further dps nerfs are necessary. o7
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6661	Posted - 2017.06.13 20:23:33 - [2227] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Teckos, stop rambling and propose a solution that limits the printability of carriers without destroying their combat ability, that or demonstrate that even under a full nerf the combat ability isn't actually being harmed and the reduction is really necessary for PvP purposes as well, if you can't do either with any competence then I would strongly argue the issue is in how bounty payouts work and not how carriers function. I'm an invisible hand advocate so all of your economics flourishes don't really sway me at all, active interference in markets ruins everything they're supposed to do. I already have. Train reading comprehension....Hell, inject the skill. Possible solutions: no change at all the carriers/supers, but they can no longer enter any anomalies. Or they can enter the anomaly, but can't lock rats. Baltec had something like when a carrier warps in a capital rat warps in with no bounty. Thus, the ISK printing is slowed down. Some have suggested carrier/super only anomalies that can be balanced in terms of how much they inject into the economy. In general I'd be happy with the following: 1. Code in ban on carriers and supers entering anomalies today (tomorrow is acceptable). 2. Look for a better longer term solution that preserves PvP capabilities but does not trash the economy. 3. Maybe remove the ban depending on the solution. For 2 there are probably a wide number of solutions, some might be implemented together. I have even suggested that CCP listen to their players, not the butthurt raging ones, but the ones who can see the problem and trying to suggest helpful solutions. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 365	Posted - 2017.06.13 20:33:03 - [2228] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Axhind wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy. Or how about this: CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting? White knighting for CCP must be a new low for AMOK. Wanting something for nothing is pathetic. Ignoring the huge problem sitting in front of you is stupid. Issue is that they finally made PvE that can't be multiboxed and is somewhat engaging and are now killing it by nerfing fighters that already barely work in TiDi fights. Ticks are a bit high but if they land around 80 mil that will be perfectly fine and they can just lower bounties if you are using a capital as CONCORD feels it's less risk and thus pays less. That way bounties can be brought down without removing good PvE or completely murdering fighters in PvP. In any case CCP have not given us a single reason to back them up lately as most of the changes have been beyond terrible (audio change is still amazing level of stupid even for CCP) as has been their behaviour towards us, their customers. So please find someone else to white knight for.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6662	Posted - 2017.06.13 20:40:27 - [2229] - Quote Axhind wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Axhind wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Heleana Commodus Luyseyal wrote: CCP should keep on mind that if ppl skilled up for something and invested their real money into it, when they nerf bat that same thing to uselessness, they should refund skill points that are thrown by players. Or at least that is what other companies are doing, like for example blizzards hearthstone. If the skills were rendered useless you might have a point. They aren't so you don't. The only thing you really have is that you are excessively butthurt and you think that justifies your petulance. Take all that ISK and be happy. Or how about this: CCP gives you the SP, but takes any and all ISK you made ratting? White knighting for CCP must be a new low for AMOK. Wanting something for nothing is pathetic. Ignoring the huge problem sitting in front of you is stupid. Issue is that they finally made PvE that can't be multiboxed and is somewhat engaging and are now killing it by nerfing fighters that already barely work in TiDi fights. Ticks are a bit high but if they land around 80 mil that will be perfectly fine and they can just lower bounties if you are using a capital as CONCORD feels it's less risk and thus pays less. That way bounties can be brought down without removing good PvE or completely murdering fighters in PvP. In any case CCP have not given us a single reason to back them up lately as most of the changes have been beyond terrible (audio change is still amazing level of stupid even for CCP) as has been their behaviour towards us, their customers. So please find someone else to white knight for. Except that the ISK supply grew in month at a rate that is comparable to six months of ISK growth last year. Yeah, other than that...nothing. And I have been opposed to simply nerfing the DPS of carriers. I think that is ham handed. I'd prefer a temporary ban on carriers/supers ratting (at least a month, the upside is we can see what happens to ISK growth, if it doesn't drop to a more reasonable number then there maybe other problems too) and look for an alternative solution that preserves the PvP capabilities and does not trash the economy. Maybe limit carriers to capital sanctums where the ISK payouts can be adjusted to keep things on a reasonable basis. One of the points I raise routinely in balance discussions is do not nerf game play for those not causing a problem. If a player has a carrier, uses it for PvP and does not rat in it, then this nerf hits hard and rather unfairly. A more subtle solution is called for, IMO. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
addelee KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 106	Posted - 2017.06.13 23:03:42 - [2230] - Quote CCP made it super easy for anyone to jump in a carrier or super. The ability to inject SP and buy isk made this a reality. In the past, fly a carrier was a lot of training time and that too of supers (especially the isk). I'm relatively old as a character (my main is 04) and I couldn't afford a super. I now can as I SP farm and thus, gave me a lucrative source of isk. What did they think would happen? People wouldn't take effective ships to go and rat in? If so, very naive. I don't however disagree that something had to change. ISK facets aren't good but I think there still needs to be a risk vs reward element. Taking a rattlesnake out to rat can net you an easy 20 mill tick (normally more) and it's a tiny investment compared to a super. What we don't need is CCP doing knee jerk reactions.

Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6663	Posted - 2017.06.13 23:48:38 - [2231] - Quote addelee wrote: CCP made it super easy for anyone to jump in a carrier or super. The ability to inject SP and buy isk made this a reality. In the past, fly a carrier was a lot of training time and that too of supers (especially the isk). I'm relatively old as a character (my main is 04) and I couldn't afford a super. I now can as I SP farm and thus, gave me a lucrative source of isk. What did they think would happen? People wouldn't take effective ships to go and rat in? If so, very naive. I don't however disagree that something had to change. ISK facets aren't good but I think there still needs to be a risk vs reward element. Taking a rattlesnake out to rat can net you an easy 20 mill tick (normally more) and it's a tiny investment compared to a super. What we don't need is CCP doing knee jerk reactions. Please tell me how much money it would take to skill into a super, buy the super, and the modules. Here I'll help. A 25 billion ISK super will cost close to $310. Exactly how many people do you think are plunking that down? Let alone the ISK to fly a super. And on top of that, all injectors do is move the problem forward in time. If the issue is carriers and supers are efficient at farming ISK...then they'd be just as efficient in 3 years when people have skilled into them the old fashioned way and we'd have the problem then. See you noticed it too: Quote: People wouldn't take effective ships to go and rat in? That appears to be the problem. Whether people get their via injectors or time. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 3752	Posted - 2017.06.14 00:05:17 - [2232] - Quote Random Freak wrote: Marek Kanenald wrote: You guys still whining about this? Literally the only nerf that is left is a 10% light fighter basic damage nerf and a 20% heavy fighter basic damage nerf. Even the proposed rat aggro was scrapped. Wasn't this what you wanted? No. What we want is the isk faucet being fixed, not an arbitrary nerf that will only work short term. We want the underlying cause fixed, not the symptoms. Interesting. So maybe if they had max ratting/ded sites per space region or constellation in a given day, the equivalent of belts being mined out? This would limit the isk flow rather than nerf ships. Is that what you meant? m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Valdr Auduin CatPack 22	Posted - 2017.06.14 00:06:18 - [2233] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: addelee wrote: CCP made it super easy for anyone to jump in a carrier or super. The ability to inject SP and buy isk made this a reality. In the past, fly a carrier was a lot of training time and that too of supers (especially the isk). I'm relatively old as a character (my main is 04) and I couldn't afford a super. I now can as I SP farm and thus, gave me a lucrative source of isk. What did they think would happen? People wouldn't take effective ships to go and rat in? If so, very naive. I don't however disagree that something had to change. ISK facets aren't good but I think there still needs to be a risk vs reward element. Taking a rattlesnake out to rat can net you an easy 20 mill tick (normally more) and it's a tiny investment compared to a super. What we don't need is CCP doing knee jerk reactions. Please tell me how much money it would take to skill into a super, buy the super, and the modules. Here I'll help. A 25 billion ISK super will cost close to $310. Exactly how many people do you think are plunking that down? Let alone the ISK to fly a super. And on top of that, all injectors do is move the problem forward in time. If the issue is carriers and supers are efficient at farming ISK...then they'd be just as efficient in 3 years when people have skilled into them the old fashioned way and we'd have the problem then. See you noticed it too: Quote: People wouldn't take effective ships to go and rat in? That appears to be the problem. Whether people get their via injectors or time. I've seen people drop thousands of dollars on cardboard and plastic, some will do it on a whim two or three times a year. Never underestimate how swiftly a fool and his money will be separated, look at me, I'm poor.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6663	Posted - 2017.06.14 00:12:54 - [2234] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: addelee wrote: CCP made it super easy for anyone to jump in a carrier or super. The ability to inject SP and buy isk made this a reality. In the past, fly a carrier was a lot of training time and that too of supers (especially the isk). I'm relatively old as a character (my main is 04) and I couldn't afford a super. I now can as I SP farm and thus, gave me a lucrative source of isk. What did they think would happen? People wouldn't take effective ships to go and rat in? If so, very naive. I don't however disagree that something had to change. ISK facets aren't good but I think there still needs to be a risk vs reward element. Taking a rattlesnake out to rat can net you an easy 20 mill tick (normally more) and it's a tiny investment compared to a super. What we don't need is CCP doing knee jerk reactions. Please tell me how much money it would take to skill into a super, buy the super, and the modules. Here I'll help. A 25 billion ISK super will cost close to $310. Exactly how many people do you think are plunking that down? Let alone the ISK to fly a super. And on top of that, all injectors do is move the problem forward in time. If the issue is carriers and supers are efficient at farming ISK...then they'd be just as efficient in 3 years when people have skilled into them the old fashioned way and we'd have the problem then. See you noticed it too: Quote: People wouldn't take effective ships to go and rat in? That appears to be the problem. Whether people get their via injectors or time. I've seen people drop thousands of dollars on cardboard and plastic, some will do it on a whim two or three times a year. Never underestimate how swiftly a fool and his money will be separated, look at me, I'm poor. I don't doubt it. Some people have plenty of discretionary income....but how many (and I am not one of them, I've gotten my SP the old fashioned way)? And why all of a sudden now, this month? I just don't buy this as a THE problem. Seems to me the problem is an unbalanced ship and whether the person getting into one got there in 5 days by spending a bucket of RL ISK or having started the game 8 years ago is not really relevant. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4027	Posted - 2017.06.14 00:25:25 - [2235] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Interesting. So maybe if they had max ratting/ded sites per space region or constellation in a given day, the equivalent of belts being mined out? This would limit the isk flow rather than nerf ships. Is that what you meant? m The problem is this impacts everyone, and in fact hits the non supers/carriers harder than the supers, since the faster you do sites as a result the more of the proportion you get. It might slow down the total isk supply, but at the cost of hammering everyone else into the ground, and forcing a single alliance to sprawl all over Nullsec again. Maybe if we had sites that could be done co-operatively using the new large grid where shooting/hacking this tower over here impacts that structure 1000km away over there and everyone on grid (who isn't cloaked) shares the payouts along the way, but even then supers could split their squadrons to some extent, though the range would place them at greater risk of losing fighters to PvP.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6664	Posted - 2017.06.14 00:36:39 - [2236] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Mike Azariah wrote: Interesting. So maybe if they had max ratting/ded sites per space region or constellation in a given day, the equivalent of belts being mined out? This would limit the isk flow rather than nerf ships. Is that what you meant? m The problem is this impacts everyone, and in fact hits the non supers/carriers harder than the supers, since the faster you do sites as a result the more of the proportion you get. It might slow down the total isk supply, but at the cost of hammering everyone else into the ground, and forcing a single alliance to sprawl all over Nullsec again. Maybe if we had sites that could be done co-operatively using the new large grid where shooting/hacking this tower over here impacts that structure 1000km away over there and everyone on grid (who isn't cloaked) shares the payouts along the way, but even then supers could split their squadrons to some extent, though the range would place them at greater risk of losing fighters to PvP. Or in fleet to share rewards. That way you can not have to worry about a cloaked dingaling on grid hoping to get some free benefits. But yes, using carriers and supers in cooperative anomalies might be interesting. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4028	Posted - 2017.06.14 01:14:33 - [2237] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Or in fleet to share rewards. That way you can not have to worry about a cloaked dingaling on grid hoping to get some free benefits. But yes, using carriers and supers in cooperative anomalies might be interesting. I had the idea of simply on grid to allow two small fleets to meet in a site, but decide not to shoot each other, instead each take separate objectives to stay out of weapons range from the other. Co-operation & competition together that way, while if it's fleet only the only sensible response to an intruder is shoot instantly, if it's anyone on grid you get a bit more of an interesting dilemma. It's a lot more development work to create that sort of thing though, which means that as a right now solution, they needed to do something, and outright banning carriers/supers from anoms means those people effectively earn 0 with their ships or rather -100% income, rather than the -20% or so profit (assuming fighters are lost sometimes, so profit isn't perfectly aligned with DPS). So in terms of carrier ratting, the current nerf is about as nice as it can be while still doing something. If they gave something back in terms of fighter survivability alongside the volley reduction it might be nicer for PvP purposes, or something like that, but I don't know enough about new carriers & PvP to really comment on that balance overall.
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2017.06.14 03:11:20 - [2238] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: With the new changes I must ask why the NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) That was probably the most sensible change there in and the one that no one was complaining about. fighters already get curbstomped if they stop moving for more than about 10 seconds.. 15% more aggression is not needed. Yeah curb stomped. 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers Curb stomped must mean something different where you come from. Wow, congrats you can copy and paste... Fact remains that they are curbstomped if they stop moving, they don't die generally primarily becuase of this awesome thing called the W key, aka Orbit. But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6664	Posted - 2017.06.14 04:22:28 - [2239] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Or in fleet to share rewards. That way you can not have to worry about a cloaked dingaling on grid hoping to get some free benefits. But yes, using carriers and supers in cooperative anomalies might be interesting. I had the idea of simply on grid to allow two small fleets to meet in a site, but decide not to shoot each other, instead each take separate objectives to stay out of weapons range from the other. Co-operation & competition together that way, while if it's fleet only the only sensible response to an intruder is shoot instantly, if it's anyone on grid you get a bit more of an interesting dilemma. It's a lot more development work to create that sort of thing though, which means that as a right now solution, they needed to do something, and outright banning carriers/supers from anoms means those people effectively earn 0 with their ships or rather -100% income, rather than the -20% or so profit (assuming fighters are lost sometimes, so profit isn't perfectly aligned with DPS). So in terms of carrier ratting, the current nerf is about as nice as it can be while still doing something. If they gave something back in terms of fighter survivability alongside the volley reduction it might be nicer for PvP purposes, or something like that, but I don't know enough about new carriers & PvP to really comment on that balance overall. Okay, spontaneous cooperation...interesting suggestion. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Harry Forever Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1334	Posted - 2017.06.14 08:42:47 - [2240] - Quote Mary Timeshift Jane wrote: Harry Forever wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. why don't you just limit the maximum bounty payout per tick? with that you could easy have control and just hurt the ones doing the really highest ticks, just limit the payout to example 50m per tick (150m per hour) no matter how many rats are killed.. Another example Jesus Christ crucifixion. Little people wanting to limit great people. Slackers offended by hardcores. One would think PH would do a better job at teaching people and bring out their potential, instead of small mindedness. you are the only one little slacker and small minded player here.. bring up your own ideas or shut the **** up Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm

Lord Heluene Arach-Tinilith 3	Posted - 2017.06.14 13:59:54 - [2241] - Quote So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT AND to top it off,,,they nerfed the mining drones for the Rorqual. They were damaged easily enough before, because they are so slow to return to the ship when recalled. Now they are even slower!! So I literally toss out 900 mil bricks, and pray they don't die to rats. So now that I can't really use the Rorqual to mine anymore, you should put it back in the pos for remote boosting...that or else refund everyone who bought one recently...because you have make them totally useless to the individual miner. So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to. So please remind me again...why i spent time here playing your game...when there are other things I could be doing?
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 215	Posted - 2017.06.14 14:15:32 - [2242] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. But it is not like it is unusual for CCP to fold to the tears of Null to the ruin of the rest of the game. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1846	Posted - 2017.06.14 14:22:01 - [2243] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Keep in mind, that all miners and even gate camped who have shot a single rat are counted to the 100 % :)
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3413	Posted - 2017.06.14 16:18:13 - [2244] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Random Freak wrote: Marek Kanenald wrote: You guys still whining about this? Literally the only nerf that is left is a 10% light fighter basic damage nerf and a 20% heavy fighter basic damage nerf. Even the proposed rat aggro was scrapped. Wasn't this what you wanted? No. What we want is the isk faucet being fixed, not an arbitrary nerf that will only work short term. We want the underlying cause fixed, not the symptoms. Interesting. So maybe if they had max ratting/ded sites per space region or constellation in a given day, the equivalent of belts being mined out? This would limit the isk flow rather than nerf ships. Is that what you meant? m Why should alliance that actually use their space be limited just because of 2 class of ship that overperform?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3413	Posted - 2017.06.14 16:20:32 - [2245] - Quote Lord Heluene wrote: So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to. People still mine and still rat. No ability were taken away from you.
Nasar Vyron S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 240	Posted - 2017.06.14 16:35:08 - [2246] - Quote Lord Heluene wrote: So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to. My bad, I didn't realize this patch removed all mining barges/exhumers from the game. You're right though, they've taken away everyone's ability to mine by nerfing something we haven't even had access to as a mining vessel for a year. Also I didn't realize that nerfing fighters by 10% made it impossible for you to rat (long range bombers by 20% if you're a super pilot). It's damage and application is just so unbearably low now you just can't bring yourself to do it. I'm also sorry you're playing a PVP centric game and refuse to partake unless forced. PS - Please biomass. This is obviously not the game for you. Thanks for the money you gave to CCP for that plex you obviously used for injectors though. It really does help the dev team. At least you provided that much for the community before leaving.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 646	Posted - 2017.06.14 17:29:31 - [2247] - Quote Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT AND to top it off,,,they nerfed the mining drones for the Rorqual. They were damaged easily enough before, because they are so slow to return to the ship when recalled. Now they are even slower!! So I literally toss out 900 mil bricks, and pray they don't die to rats. So now that I can't really use the Rorqual to mine anymore, you should put it back in the pos for remote boosting...that or else refund everyone who bought one recently...because you have make them totally useless to the individual miner. So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to. So please remind me again...why i spent time here playing your game...when there are other things I could be doing? Not your missiles, CCP's missiles and they do what the hell they want with them. confused? read the EULA. nobody pushed you into any type of ship, you asked your mates what's the best ship for ratting/isk tick and that's why you trained it. monkey see monkey do. mining drones are new and they where OP, CCP needed to adjust them, again read the EULA it covers all this about how CCP can do what they want when they want and how they want, you sir are leasing the right to take part. you own nothing in EVE. you can still mine and rat or don't, your choice, plenty of other ships to rat or mine in. you spent time here playing the game because you love it, no other reason. these other things you speak of, why would you blame a video game for stopping you doing them, that's a lazy fecks attitude. the problem isn't the game stopping you or making you do anything, it's you refusing to accept responsiblity for your own fecking life, the reason why you didn't do the other things is because you made a decision to stay in and play video games.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3204	Posted - 2017.06.14 17:58:43 - [2248] - Quote Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Atrinos Ordo Teeutonicus Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2017.06.14 18:48:36 - [2249] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp...
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3206	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:08:16 - [2250] - Quote Atrinos wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line. 2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. 3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely? Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Omega Prototype MASS A DEATH Mercenary Coalition 0	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:30:09 - [2251] - Quote Yeah great this is fantastic. I dont struggle enough with money with my carrier right CCP? What you are saying is we deserve to be poor all the time right? People barely use carriers as it is and then you nerf them AGAIN. What about the mach? Seriously I have seen some dumb updates but carrier ratting is not a ***** issue. You are already putting a lot of risk carrier ratting with a multi billion isk ship and most super deaths IS FROM RATTING SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS....HOW IS THIS *** MAKING CONTENT BETTER IF YOU TAKE AWAY MORE CONTENT?! WHAT ARE THE BLACK OPS SUPPOSED TO HOPE FOR IF ALL THEY CAN HOPE FOR IS A RATTLESNAKE?! I shouldnt have to get mad but you should THINK before you do something stupid like this. Cant believe out of all the bad game design decisions it has to be CCP this time. LEAVE THE CAPITALS ALONE. FLY THEM FOR AWHILE AND MAKE MONEY IN THEM THEN DO SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN STFU. Its like if I walked into a hospital and despite having NO EXPERIENCE in any of the fields I tell them that there are some things wrong with surgery out of no where. Let me correct people saying there is too much isk flowing in the game......you are wrong. Theres a lot fo isk but it aint towards the normal players. its too the few wealthy money hugging people buying and selling ** and pumping out faction capitals for themselves like candy...HUH KIND OF LIKE REAL LIFE. So no there is not too much money and that notion is delusional. How about make ratting for the ratters MORE profitable and stop these super rich people from making so much money if you believe that ISK is the issue. Because let me tell you all this isk you say there is a lot fo just rolling around I havent got any of it so I have to ask wtf are you people taling about even?
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3207	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:35:49 - [2252] - Quote Omega Prototype wrote: Yeah great this is fantastic. I dont struggle enough with money with my carrier right CCP? What you are saying is we deserve to be poor all the time right? People barely use carriers as it is and then you nerf them AGAIN. What about the mach? Seriously I have seen some dumb updates but carrier ratting is not a ***** issue. You are already putting a lot of risk carrier ratting with a multi billion isk ship and most super deaths IS FROM RATTING SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS....HOW IS THIS ***** MAKING CONTENT BETTER IF YOU TAKE AWAY MORE CONTENT?! WHAT ARE THE BLACK OPS SUPPOSED TO HOPE FOR IF ALL THEY CAN HOPE FOR IS A RATTLESNAKE?! I shouldnt have to get mad but you should THINK before you do something stupid like this. Cant believe out of all the bad game design decisions it has to be CCP this time. LEAVE THE CAPITALS ALONE. FLY THEM FOR AWHILE AND MAKE MONEY IN THEM THEN DO SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN STFU. Its like if I walked into a hospital and despite having NO EXPERIENCE in any of the fields I tell them that there are some things wrong with surgery out of no where. TBH, if Carrier-ratting didn't have amazingly out-sized rewards, I doubt you would be this emotional about the prospect of it being nerfed. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Omega Prototype MASS A DEATH Mercenary Coalition 0	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:41:17 - [2253] - Quote No I would be upset because I want to use them in combat too and I love the complexity behind them but these nerfs dont mean anything. They will just make it so everyone just uses dreads and titans. They already cost a lot and now they wont be used at all...like what are we supposed to load them with SS fighters and tackle and thats it? Am I not allowed to risk a high value asset without getting slapped every time I look at my carrier? Plus all the prices on things have gone UP since last I saw so where is this money they claim we have aside from the few rich?
Atrinos Ordo Teeutonicus Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:41:44 - [2254] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Atrinos wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line. 2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem. 3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely? Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again. 1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem. 2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing.
Omega Prototype MASS A DEATH Mercenary Coalition 0	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:44:13 - [2255] - Quote Atrinos wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Atrinos wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line. 2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem. 3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely? Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again. 1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem. 2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing. EXACTLY. ALREADY RISKING A HIGH VALUE SLOW SHIP. AND AGAIN WHAT DO BLACK OPS HAVE TO LOOK FORWARD TOO WITH NO CARRIERS RATTING?
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6668	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:45:01 - [2256] - Quote Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT Nobody pushed you into anything, you looked at the game and made a choice. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6668	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:46:29 - [2257] - Quote HandelsPharmi wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Keep in mind, that all miners and even gate camped who have shot a single rat are counted to the 100 % :) Yes! This is such an amazingly bad point it should be noted in a quote for posterity. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3208	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:49:55 - [2258] - Quote Atrinos wrote: 1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem. Oh wow, you don't understand how percentages work at all, huh? Quote: 2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing. And as I asked: What is your ******* point? Do you think assigning blame to skill injectors alleviates the need to correct the problem now? "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6668	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:54:10 - [2259] - Quote Atrinos wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just ** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Because ruining the economy will ruin the game for everyone. 2. Because the problem is not ratters in general, but a subset of ratters. Those guys are the one's bringing in a crap ton of ISK into the game. I have posted this before, but I doubt you'll read and educate yourself so I'll do it for you. Last month, May 2017 just to be clear here, the amount of ISK coming into the game for that SINGLE FECKING MONTH** was as much as was created in the last 6 months of 2016. 3. Three points: a. Carriers and supers were changed by CCP. b. If a teeny tiny number of people rat in an OP ISK printer it won't have the same impact as 10 or 100 times as many. c. The ships are still unbalanced with or without injectors. Whether you have the problem now or year from now or 2 years from now, they were doomed to somehow be nerfed. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:56:14 - [2260] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less.

iFars Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation 38	Posted - 2017.06.14 19:57:37 - [2261] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) ty
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6669	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:01:01 - [2262] - Quote Atrinos wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Atrinos wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Lord Heluene wrote: So CCP nerfed my missiles a while back and I swiitched to a carrier because of it, now I am being punished by CCP for making isk in the ship they pushed me into. How thoughtfull!! NOT The self-importance of anyone who manages to rationalize necessary gameplay changes as, "I'm being punished!" is mind-boggling. Tell you what: Why don't you tell us what you think should happen instead? Here's the problem: There's WAY too much ISK flowing into the economy. This major overabundance is attributable to the ISK-generating capabilities of ratting supers and carriers. Provide a solution to this problem. Alternatively, present an argument in favor of allowing the entire game's economy to collapse in lieu of making you sad by correcting the problem. Failing that, just bugger off. 1. Eve is a Sandox Game. So why shouldn't they be allowed to make money in Caps and Supercaps? 2. There are much smarter ways to decrease the isk flow. For example a global tax for ratting bounties with 20%. So why just **** up shipclasses 3. Many ppl were ratting in supers for a long time. It never was a Problem cause there were only a few of them. Skill injectors were anounced and now much More ppl were ratting in Caps and supercaps. This Problem was selfmade by ccp... 1. Nobody said they shouldn't be allowed to make money in caps and supercaps. The assertion is that the amount of money being made in caps and supercaps is unsustainable, and needs to be brought into line. 2. A global tax on ratting bounties would impact all ratters, including those who aren't currently earning the massively outsized incomes of carriers and supercarriers. This fails to address the problem that was identified, impacting far more players. Why should a VNI ratter take a 20% hit to address the problem of the ISK-generating capabilities of carries and supercarriers being too high? Now, if you had said, "A 50% tax on bounties generated by Carriers and Supercarriers," then you may have been on to something. Pretty hacky kludge, but at least it targets the problem. 3. And your point here is... what? Even if we blame injectors, what is the actual point you imagine you're making? What part of this is actionable? What is your suggestion? Are they supposed to remove injectors from the game? Or are you trying to assert that since it's CCP's "fault" (All balance and gameplay problems are CCP's fault in this sense, btw. It's also their responsibility to correct those missteps) it should just be allowed to persist indefinitely? Given the above, you have utterly failed at the task of presenting a solution that addresses the problem. Please try again. 1. A VNI has ticks around 20 mil. A supercap has ticks around 100mil. So a global tax would primary Hit that clases. Ccp said that there is to much isk were genrated through ratting so this is a solution that target this Problem. 2. Ccp made the Skill injectors for New players so that they could catch up faster. Caps are the Kind of endcontent and with Skill injectors everyone had access to this. So why blame the ratters when they used rl money to get in these ships and then just nerf them. If there were no Skill injectors there would be much less Caps. As i said - there always were ppl who were ratting in Caps and this was never a thing. OMG no. 1. First, CCP said that a single group of ratters were causing the problem, carriers and super pilots. Second, it is a flat tax so it is a solution that penalizes the small time ratter just as much as the big time ratter who is causing the problem. Hence the tax will have to high enough to wipe out the negative effects of a money supply growing too fast. So it might have to be as high as say 50%. A VNI getting ticks of 10 million while the super pilot is still getting 50% is not going to be seen as fair to a much, much larger segment of the ratting players....WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH. Second what do you think everyone with an alt or main ratting in a VNI will start skilling for? A super. You are not solving the problem long term. 2. The is not injectors, the issue are two classes of unbalanced ships when it comes ratting. Stop trying to shift the discussion away from the problem--too much ISK entering the economy. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6669	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:05:02 - [2263] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. Yes because SP always determines who wins. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:14:19 - [2264] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. Yes because SP always determines who wins. No but the player base was pissed over a monocle but doesn't care about skill injection. So yeah...
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6669	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:18:06 - [2265] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. Yes because SP always determines who wins. No but the player base was pissed over a monocle but doesn't care about skill injection. So yeah... So it wasn't pay to win, and were people pissed about the monocle or the possibility of things like gold ammo? I think people thought the monocle was stupidly over-priced, but it was that article about how to really grab money out of players by creating better ammo, mods, etc. de novo for cash. And ironically, people are now using skill injectors to deflect from a clearly unbalanced element in the game. And that imbalance was created not by pay2win, but by CCP doing a revamp to carriers and supers. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3212	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:18:15 - [2266] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: But meh, the changes were halved, you lost... deal with it. Yeah after 100 pages of tears the likes of which hi-sec has never produced and why? So 46.5% of the bounties can be gained by 6.2% of the players. Apparently you weren't playing when Incarna was released. It was the reason "pay2win" aka skill injectors and such wasn't released for 5 years. You know, the time the player base shot a monument for a week and cried on the forums.. Mostly high sec players no less. Yes because SP always determines who wins. No but the player base was pissed over a monocle but doesn't care about skill injection. So yeah... The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time. There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles". "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:29:29 - [2267] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time. There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles". And isn't the current whining over more than carrier/super nerfs because of ratting? the nerfs, the rorq nerf, the ghost training crap, the mysterious stopping of all skill queues, the lag, socket closes, etc etc? I only mentioned monocles because people that were playing at the time would more readily remember that and then the rest of the issues would come to mind as well. I still have a copy of the Greed is Good pdf :P
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6670	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:33:34 - [2268] - Quote Objectless Hatred wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time. There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles". And isn't the current whining over more than carrier/super nerfs because of ratting? the nerfs, the rorq nerf, the ghost training crap, the mysterious stopping of all skill queues, the lag, socket closes, etc etc? I only mentioned monocles because people that were playing at the time would more readily remember that and then the rest of the issues would come to mind as well. I still have a copy of the Greed is Good pdf :P Yes. However, both SurrenderMonkey and I have come out against this general nerf to carriers/supers. Nerfing a ship overall that can be used in both PvP and PvE because of a PvE problem is not good either. I don't know about SurrenderMonkey, but I'd prefer a temprorary ban on carriers and supers ratting so that a better solution can be found. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6670	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:37:31 - [2269] - Quote Here we go a simple and elegant solution: CCP imposes a ratting tax on supers and carriers of....100%. You can rat in your carrier or your super, you just get nothing for it. No other nerfs. All combat abilities are returned to where they were. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Objectless Hatred El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2017.06.14 20:38:10 - [2270] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Objectless Hatred wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: The player based was pissed over a monocle, a very unflattering leaked internal newsletter, an extremely underwhelming update for which all other updates had been put on hold, an unopenable door, a refusal to come out and say "no" to golden ammo implying that there were plans for golden ammo, a tone-deaf argument about designer pants, and the general hubris of the game management at the time. There was a lot more going on there than "Monocles". And isn't the current whining over more than carrier/super nerfs because of ratting? the nerfs, the rorq nerf, the ghost training crap, the mysterious stopping of all skill queues, the lag, socket closes, etc etc? I only mentioned monocles because people that were playing at the time would more readily remember that and then the rest of the issues would come to mind as well. I still have a copy of the Greed is Good pdf :P Yes. However, both SurrenderMonkey and I have come out against this general nerf to carriers/supers. Nerfing a ship overall that can be used in both PvP and PvE because of a PvE problem is not good either. I don't know about SurrenderMonkey, but I'd prefer a temprorary ban on carriers and supers ratting so that a better solution can be found. I only had a issue with the originally high percentage of the nerf. I feel the same about nerfing a pvp ship because of its use as a pve ship. I'm pretty much on the same page.

Trevize Demerzel 106	Posted - 2017.06.14 22:12:39 - [2271] - Quote IMO. If they would change it so fighters did less dps to rats and increased their resistance to being rendered useless in pvp I'd be fine with that. It's the nerfing pve plus adding npc agro and leaving then useless in pvp that annoys me so much. A (super)carrier shouldn't fear a bunch of frigs or even a solo small ship that can render it a large loot Pinata in pvp. It's fighters need some teeth in pvp. The ability to defang a carrier at present is rather ridiculous and I think that is why this entire nerf angered so many. Myself included. -
Feracitus Rafix Enterprises CAStabouts 2	Posted - 2017.06.15 00:14:38 - [2272] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Feracitus wrote: The underlying problem is the infinite nature of the ISK currency. Limit the money supply by actually limiting the money supply. Transform ISK in a blockchain based cryptocurrency with a market cap and limited supply. ISK is already a synthetic commodity currency like bit coin. People convert electricity into bit coin, and people convert (leisure) time into ISK. With changes to carriers/supers it looks like it is "too easy" to convert (leisure) time into ISK. It might be synthetic, but it lacks the paramount trait of bitcoin as a store of value, for having a fixed cap. People often mistake worth for price. Having a fixed cap on the money supply is a good concept to explore as it drives stability of the overall market system, and curbs overinflation over time.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 218	Posted - 2017.06.15 01:49:52 - [2273] - Quote Trevize Demerzel wrote: IMO. If they would change it so fighters did less dps to rats and increased their resistance to being rendered useless in pvp I'd be fine with that. It's the nerfing pve plus adding npc agro and leaving then useless in pvp that annoys me so much. A (super)carrier shouldn't fear a bunch of frigs or even a solo small ship that can render it a large loot Pinata in pvp. It's fighters need some teeth in pvp. The ability to defang a carrier at present is rather ridiculous and I think that is why this entire nerf angered so many. Myself included. This right here. It feels like with the Citadel update carriers and supers got transformed from blob ships to ratting ships that happen to still be decent in a blob. Ever since then, it has been nerf after nerf, with each one targeted at their ratting ability but hitting their already weak out-of-blob PvP abilities even harder. I didn't train carriers and supers to make ISK or sit in TiDi all day pressing a button every few minutes; I trained them as a tool against groups of smaller ships in PvP to get something of a "quality over quantity" advantage. Unfortunately after 4 nerfs to carriers and only a slight tracking change to dreads and titans, it's clear I made the wrong choice. Dreads and titans are for every fight against players and carriers are for PvE or when you outclass the enemy so much that it's a contest to who can lock them fast enough to get on the kills.
ApolloF117 HUN Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels 55	Posted - 2017.06.15 10:17:41 - [2274] - Quote I will repeat myself again if you nerf dps give something back, tracking or hp
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 368	Posted - 2017.06.15 10:39:19 - [2275] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Here we go a simple and elegant solution: CCP imposes a ratting tax on supers and carriers of....100%. You can rat in your carrier or your super, you just get nothing for it. No other nerfs. All combat abilities are returned to where they were. Holy **, I know you are in AMOK but what the hell dude? Carrier/super ratting is the only engaging PvE activity that EVE has ever had. It can't be multiboxed and demands active play style. Yes it is giving a bit too much isk at the moment and should be scaled to ticks of about 80 mil or so (roughly 4 afktars) but removing it completely is just absurd. As to PvP the biggest issue right now is that they stop working in TiDi which means you need to recall and relaunch between every attack volley. This nerf is not going to do much to PvP anyway as DPS was ** to begin with.
venetistrader norie H S attack 1	Posted - 2017.06.15 13:17:44 - [2276] - Quote Ok guys. I did look at all the charts all the commentsGÇª and I donGÇÖt understand one thing. IGÇÖm now in 0.0 for 1-2 mounts now. I did train to a carrierGÇª. I do havens. GÇª OK. The part I donGÇÖt get is where do the guys get the anomalies??? When IGÇÖm ratting in my carrier I can make good ticks just if IGÇÖm alone ratting the havens. If there is 3 or 4 players making the havens we wait a lot till one site is free. So, to get such ticks, as the chart tells us, you must be alone in a system and have all the sites to yourself. Where was this chart of super making so much ISK done??? Does a super-rich player have its own system with sites all to himself?? This chart is 100% made in such way that it supports the facts that CCP is trying to make us see. So CCP please make a chart of the system where IGÇÖm ratting and show it to me. I did ask my corp m8 and no one did never see such tickGÇÖs ass you say we can do. I would propose a different approach from you side. Just tell us you are nerfing it and that this is just the start because you want the players to buy plex and not make it in-game. In the end, you want us to buy plex thatGÇÖs the only logical answer to the nerfs.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3415	Posted - 2017.06.15 14:09:58 - [2277] - Quote venetistrader norie wrote: I would propose a different approach from you side. Just tell us you are nerfing it and that this is just the start because you want the players to buy plex and not make it in-game. In the end, you want us to buy plex thatGÇÖs the only logical answer to the nerfs. Another one who don't understand how PLEX work...
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 218	Posted - 2017.06.15 14:11:05 - [2278] - Quote First of all there's a sov upgrade, which your system should have, that spawns several more Havens than normal and makes them respawn very quickly. That alone can easily support a super and 2-3 carriers doing sites, as long as you don't have other people in subcaps occupying anomalies for half an hour. Second, I'm not sure if it's the case for normal carriers, but supers make more money in Forsaken Hubs and Sanctums than Havens, so that takes a little of the pressure off.
Commander Spurty 1685	Posted - 2017.06.15 14:21:12 - [2279] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Commander Spurty wrote: Why haven't you used your data to decide: "We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors" Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. That path leadeth to thine themepark Mechanically you have two options. An arbitrary total ratting limit. Which means everyone who isn't a super gets nerfed too. Or an arbitrary per pilot limit. Which forces multi-characters on the same account (to keep costs down) to bypass it, & makes no sense in a sandbox. Neither are viable solutions. I would love to have watched you jumping to these conclusions. Mad as a box of frogs matey. There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Spurty 1685	Posted - 2017.06.15 14:21:12 - [2280] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Commander Spurty wrote: Why haven't you used your data to decide: "We are placing a cap on CONCORD bounties per Region! If you wish to go over X ISK, you need to invade your neighbors" Faster the super pilots deplete the ISK bucket for their region, the faster they have to uproot and move. That path leadeth to thine themepark Mechanically you have two options. An arbitrary total ratting limit. Which means everyone who isn't a super gets nerfed too. Or an arbitrary per pilot limit. Which forces multi-characters on the same account (to keep costs down) to bypass it, & makes no sense in a sandbox. Neither are viable solutions. I would love to have watched you jumping to these conclusions. Mad as a box of frogs matey. There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP

Sonny WEL3 Sapper Corporation R O G U E 1	Posted - 2017.06.16 01:17:18 - [2281] - Quote Maybe I'm the confused one here! CCP you say Super/Carrier ratting is an ISK faucet that's creating an economic problem. However, I believe you're creating the problems. So many massive changes to the game which affect different parts of the game's economy. Then you over correct the problem before the economy has time to rebalance with the recent changes. Examples: Well let's take a look at something right quick, just in one of the latest releases you made. You made the Roq king miner again. So players dusted off that old dust bucket to do a little mining, which turned out to be very lucrative. So more and more players invested in this ship and related SP, which created a small sink but still a sink. Then as we all know, they started going pop because they become high valued targets. This created content thus balancing out the Roq's mining faucet with the economy. Then BAM you nerf the whole thing making the Roq nothing more than a dust collector again. LAWL During or around the same time frame as the Roq is king release, you introduced the Carrier/Fighter changes. With this change came again a lucrative way of making the almighty ISKIES. AGAIN creating another small sink, as players cashed in, investing in the ships and related SP. Again you nerf it. Note to CCP: "with greater risk comes greater reward" isn't that what you wanted! Now that you've implemented this concept with the lasted releases. The players have finally come to see it the same way and taken you up on you're challenge, only for you to nerf it as well! GG I'm truly invested with this game, as far as rl time and money and this has kept me playing but now how long will it last. Sincerely Getting feed up and bored
Analius Glover The Fatal Visionaries Honorable Third Party 8	Posted - 2017.06.16 09:31:25 - [2282] - Quote Just for you know CCP - further nerfing cariers and supers and making them less effective on anomalies will make people to drop them as a source of income. Ths will remove a content for smalgangs and hotdroppers because very little amount of people risks such expensive ships for PvP. So if you wanna make a change make a new anomalies which still will make players to undock their shiny ships otherwise the lack of content cancer will continue spreading across New Eden. Same with the rorqs - you made a good decision bringing them to the ore sites but now you doing all to make them replaced by multiboxing mining barges and exhumers. Stop penalizing normal players and support afk multiboxers
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 221	Posted - 2017.06.16 11:11:38 - [2283] - Quote Honestly the solution is actually rather simple. Have the anomalies detect capitals or super and then have a massive drop of high damage, low bounty NPCs onto the Carrier or super. So they have to flee or go BOOM!! After the loss of a couple these ships, they will no longer be used and the problem of them in anomalies is solved. No need to alter their PvP capabilities at all. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
April rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 27	Posted - 2017.06.16 12:33:35 - [2284] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: Honestly the solution is actually rather simple. Have the anomalies detect capitals or super and then have a massive drop of high damage, low bounty NPCs onto the Carrier or super. So they have to flee or go BOOM!! This will make carriers an supers sit in docks. Not sure if this is what you want. Like others pointed it will hurt droppers and hunters the most. Because you know - killing afktar is not so fun as kill carrier..... So yes, you WILL nerf PvPers too.
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 223	Posted - 2017.06.16 14:16:55 - [2285] - Quote April rabbit wrote: Mark Marconi wrote: Honestly the solution is actually rather simple. Have the anomalies detect capitals or super and then have a massive drop of high damage, low bounty NPCs onto the Carrier or super. So they have to flee or go BOOM!! This will make carriers an supers sit in docks. Not sure if this is what you want. Like others pointed it will hurt droppers and hunters the most. Because you know - killing afktar is not as fun as killing carrier..... So yes, you WILL nerf PvPers too. The fact that Sov is a joke is the main reason Carriers and Supers are sitting around and personally I would prefer a few players, losing some kills over the destruction of the economy. The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game. After all we are not just players, we are customers. Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 23	Posted - 2017.06.16 14:27:04 - [2286] - Quote Oh! Why not make persistent pirate fleets gain aggro on any capital that rats anything from their faction, the more expensive the rat, the more aggro the cap-pilot gains on all their capitals, this aggro is only reduced when the pilot is killed while in a capital. These persistent pirate fleets use the new special AI system to custom fit for tackling and podding their target and will track the systems the pilot gets killboards or killboarded in. The bigger the "aggro bounty" a pilot's capitals have, the bigger the headhunter fleet is; if they have enough aggro from more than one pirate faction (i.e. each faction's aggro goes past a certain threshold, individually) then you'll see pirate alliance fleets hunting these highly active capital ratters. And yeah, I suppose they'd draw aggro from CONCORD if they jump in through a gate or attack anything, including their mark. CCP can adjust the aggro and response threshold weights, I'd assume the CONCORD mechanics already have code like this, to suit their current taste on how much ratting capitals should or shouldn't do. ED: Could also make it so anomalies don't spawn, they're built up over time, but that would mean there wouldn't be as many which would severely dampen income opportunities. I was thinking the same thing could be implemented with belts, requiring NPC miners in empire space to perform moon mining to create all new belts once the feature is implemented, but again, that would all but eliminate typical income and mineral opportunities for everyone but the highly active players willing to hunt these things down. However, it would definitely clamp down the economy- might stall it out though.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3424	Posted - 2017.06.16 19:47:36 - [2287] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: ED: Could also make it so anomalies don't spawn, they're built up over time, but that would mean there wouldn't be as many which would severely dampen income opportunities. I was thinking the same thing could be implemented with belts, requiring NPC miners in empire space to perform moon mining to create all new belts once the feature is implemented, but again, that would all but eliminate typical income and mineral opportunities for everyone but the highly active players willing to hunt these things down. However, it would definitely clamp down the economy- might stall it out though. Why do you want to nerf all ratters when carriers and supers are the problem? Why am I supposed to see less anomalies in my Oracle when it's carrier and supers which are too much of a gravy train?
Valdr Auduin CatPack 24	Posted - 2017.06.16 19:51:30 - [2288] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: ED: Could also make it so anomalies don't spawn, they're built up over time, but that would mean there wouldn't be as many which would severely dampen income opportunities. I was thinking the same thing could be implemented with belts, requiring NPC miners in empire space to perform moon mining to create all new belts once the feature is implemented, but again, that would all but eliminate typical income and mineral opportunities for everyone but the highly active players willing to hunt these things down. However, it would definitely clamp down the economy- might stall it out though. Why do you want to nerf all ratters when carriers and supers are the problem? Why am I supposed to see less anomalies in my Oracle when it's carrier and supers which are too much of a gravy train? I'm a simulationist at heart, it's not a serious theoretical mechanic like the upper half of the post, I just dislike "spawns" of any sort- I'd be much happier if NPC had to mine and manufacture all their ships just like players.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3424	Posted - 2017.06.16 19:59:10 - [2289] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: ED: Could also make it so anomalies don't spawn, they're built up over time, but that would mean there wouldn't be as many which would severely dampen income opportunities. I was thinking the same thing could be implemented with belts, requiring NPC miners in empire space to perform moon mining to create all new belts once the feature is implemented, but again, that would all but eliminate typical income and mineral opportunities for everyone but the highly active players willing to hunt these things down. However, it would definitely clamp down the economy- might stall it out though. Why do you want to nerf all ratters when carriers and supers are the problem? Why am I supposed to see less anomalies in my Oracle when it's carrier and supers which are too much of a gravy train? I'm a simulationist at heart, it's not a serious theoretical mechanic like the upper half of the post, I just dislike "spawns" of any sort- I'd be much happier if NPC had to mine and manufacture all their ships just like players. Functionality > realism/quality of simulation The top part of your post is also bad since all it does is make people completely stop using carriers and supers.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 24	Posted - 2017.06.16 20:10:34 - [2290] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Functionality > realism/quality of simulation The top part of your post is also bad since all it does is make people completely stop using carriers and supers. The validity of that statement relies on your assumption of what is and is not functional, or rather what function is most desirable. Since this is, I've been told, a highly detailed economics simulator (in space, for fun and imaginary profit), one would be led to assume that the quality of the simulation is actually fairly important. And it doesn't stop people using carriers and supers, it just means using them leaves an escalating paper trail, I'm more thinking about the kind of content having pirates following a high-end player's caps around would entail than the functionality of your bland ratting mechanics.

Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3424	Posted - 2017.06.16 20:21:55 - [2291] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Functionality > realism/quality of simulation The top part of your post is also bad since all it does is make people completely stop using carriers and supers. The validity of that statement relies on your assumption of what is and is not functional, or rather what function is most desirable. Since this is, I've been told, a highly detailed economics simulator (in space, for fun and imaginary profit), one would be led to assume that the quality of the simulation is actually fairly important. And it doesn't stop people using carriers and supers, it just means using them leaves an escalating paper trail, I'm more thinking about the kind of content having pirates following a high-end player's caps around would entail than the functionality of your bland ratting mechanics. If it's ever escalating like you were proposing, it means your ship will die at some point and you won't have a counter beside not participating. You know what happen to feature that grantee your ship will go boom with not associated counter? Player stop participating. If you don't believe me on that, check how active the Drifters incursion were and you will understand how interesting a mechanic you can't avoid is.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 24	Posted - 2017.06.16 20:25:40 - [2292] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Functionality > realism/quality of simulation The top part of your post is also bad since all it does is make people completely stop using carriers and supers. The validity of that statement relies on your assumption of what is and is not functional, or rather what function is most desirable. Since this is, I've been told, a highly detailed economics simulator (in space, for fun and imaginary profit), one would be led to assume that the quality of the simulation is actually fairly important. And it doesn't stop people using carriers and supers, it just means using them leaves an escalating paper trail, I'm more thinking about the kind of content having pirates following a high-end player's caps around would entail than the functionality of your bland ratting mechanics. If it's ever escalating like you were proposing, it means your ship will die at some point and you won't have a counter beside not participating. You know what happen to feature that grantee your ship will go boom with not associated counter? Player stop participating. If you don't believe me on that, check how active the Drifters incursion were and you will understand how interesting a mechanic you can't avoid is. Your ship will always die at some point, that's the advice everyone keeps giving me, give somebody enough incentive and they will break your stuff for whatever reason- is this a goon rhetoric or does everyone get sensitive when you talk about giving NPCs goals that might include chasing you down and giving you a taste of the medicine you regularly dish out?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4036	Posted - 2017.06.16 21:31:37 - [2293] - Quote Your ship will die to PvP at some time or a dumb mistake at some time. However if you keep running the same site the ship will not die to unbeatable NPC's (assuming you could do it the first time). And frankly, given the data from drifters that were beatable but had a death cannon that was 99% sure to kill at least one ship, Frostys is right. People don't like PvE where they HAVE to die at some stage. It's not a fun experience knowing that sooner or later an unavoidable death will happen. It doesn't mean you couldn't create a better modelled PvE system, but it means it can't continue to magically escalate vs a particular person, and additionally a better modelled PvE system would kill highsec since all the PvE would be consumed before the rats ever 'spread' that far. But regardless, it's a totally different topic to the fighter nerf.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 24	Posted - 2017.06.16 21:56:35 - [2294] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Your ship will die to PvP at some time or a dumb mistake at some time. However if you keep running the same site the ship will not die to unbeatable NPC's (assuming you could do it the first time). And frankly, given the data from drifters that were beatable but had a death cannon that was 99% sure to kill at least one ship, Frostys is right. People don't like PvE where they HAVE to die at some stage. It's not a fun experience knowing that sooner or later an unavoidable death will happen. It doesn't mean you couldn't create a better modelled PvE system, but it means it can't continue to magically escalate vs a particular person, and additionally a better modelled PvE system would kill highsec since all the PvE would be consumed before the rats ever 'spread' that far. But regardless, it's a totally different topic to the fighter nerf. Except that's inherently wrong and pig-headed for an analysis of what I proposed. First, aggro only increases when the player cap-rats; second, each pirates faction tracks separately; third, the fleet is a game-asset, not a spawner, and must physically find the player based on the killboards their capitals leave and then travel to them AND THEN engage them; fourth, the only drawback is you don't get a bounty (or not as big a bounty and you still get loot) and may or may not accrue further faction aggro; fifth and finally, this isn't some "aha, a capital, sick 'em, boys" aggro, it's more like an UnSecurity Rating combined with a faction standing tracker. By the time you 1) amass enough aggro on your caps and 2) are actually tracked down, tackled, and killed it's more than likely you'll have paid your ship's worth off several times over unless CCP weights things like a jerk (which wouldn't be a surprise given the last week or so). And your major gripe that breaks the idea is that if a cap-ratter keeps cap-ratting like they're a pigeon in a Skinner Box eventually all unholy hell of a pirate coalition fleet will gank them once, maybe twice. OOO~OO~OOH, yes, I'll go sit in the 'bad idea corner' now. Quote: But regardless, it's a totally different topic to the fighter nerf Same topic, I just generalised a potential solution to all capitals.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 218	Posted - 2017.06.17 00:37:42 - [2295] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Functionality > realism/quality of simulation The top part of your post is also bad since all it does is make people completely stop using carriers and supers. The validity of that statement relies on your assumption of what is and is not functional, or rather what function is most desirable. Since this is, I've been told, a highly detailed economics simulator (in space, for fun and imaginary profit), one would be led to assume that the quality of the simulation is actually fairly important. And it doesn't stop people using carriers and supers, it just means using them leaves an escalating paper trail, I'm more thinking about the kind of content having pirates following a high-end player's caps around would entail than the functionality of your bland ratting mechanics. If it's ever escalating like you were proposing, it means your ship will die at some point and you won't have a counter beside not participating. You know what happen to feature that grantee your ship will go boom with not associated counter? Player stop participating. If you don't believe me on that, check how active the Drifters incursion were and you will understand how interesting a mechanic you can't avoid is. You mean the Drifter incursions that were slaughtering hundreds of Thrashers each day while printing 3-5 billion ISK per site? I ran those for 3 days and made 22 bil.
Akktu Stakki School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.17 07:16:55 - [2296] - Quote Instead of putting restrictions on capsuleers what CCP should do is provide more content. The capsuleers active in Supercarrier ratting are at the top of the(ir) game, and have worked hard for years (literally!) to get to where they are. In that perspective it shouuld be obvious CCP should deliver something of better, shall we say, quality... than a simple nerf and slap in the face. So here's my idea about adding content: So what if we had anomalies tailor made for capital ships. Think 'noobship acceleration gate' but the complete opposite... get it? Ok I'll elaborate. So... we have these annoying capsuleers who are filthy spacerich and they get the silly idea to spend their excessive isk on these stupendously huge spaceships. So what's so good about them? Oh, absolutely nothing! You'll just make yourself the biggest target in the system. Literally hundreds of people will scan down whatever number of Wormhole connections necessary to get to you and provide you the finest content isk can buy. That's how nice the EvE capsuleer community is, every ship comes with a lifetime content guarantee, end of lifetime that is. Oh, but that was not the content we were intending to talk about here. Let's get back on topic. So, tailor made anomalies for Capital Ships? How do we approach that? Here's my idea: Introduce a new category of anomalies that only spawn in nullsec. Let's trust CCP and their trusec magic on this one if you will. Ok maybe not, whatever. Either way, these anomalies would be scannable through the use of special probes, alternatively a specialized scanning skill using combat probes. Once scanned down, the anomaly will reveal itself to be something similar but not identical to a wormhole. It's somethings strangely, different. So, only a Recon class T2 Cruiser is capable of getting close to this anomaly, and then only when cloaked. Enter the site: Inside, the Recon ship will be able to observe and assess the activities by the strong NPC (name your faction) presence. Capital ship-size entities? Yes totally, or at least a decent probability to encounter one, or more, in a site like this. This site is the motherload, the fully developed hive mentioned in the drone 10/10s description clearly stating that this is not a "fully developed hive". Now here's the trick In this type of site, a cyno beacon can be activated and, if capital ships are at the entrance to the anomaly (within rangeof it) they can jump into the site. This site could run something like a 10/10 with possible escalations, different routes etc but would be strictly limited to Capital size ships. Possibly a single Capital ship could solo it, but imho rather not. Teamwork should be encouraged is my idea. The fun starts when you get a escalation and a cyno beacon appears on your ship sensors that you do not know where it leads to. This new site would be connected to a different entry point, in a completely different system. So capsuleers from other groups could find the entry point to the site you are in, and drop by to help bring you the very content you so desire! Imagine that! So what can possibly go wrong? So, for however long the escalation chain goes, along the whole chain of sites any one of the entry points can become a exit point with the help of a Recon class T2 Cruiser lighting a Cyno field next to it. So that all capsuleer groups participating can exit at their convenience. Beware though, for exiting this type of anomaly will cause disturbingly high jump fatigue, or at the very least a polarization timer significant enough to prevent ships from entering/exiting engagements at will. Pros - Content content & more content! Did I mention content? Content for everyone! Surprise parties!!! YOU are the special guest for this party and we want to bring it to you! - CCP can modulate rewards without tampering with the PvP capabilities of already established ships and modules. It also opens up ways to introduce new items and of course, to achieve the so-desired (by CCP most notably) Capital ship attrition rates. Ok, so what are the cons? CCP actually has to pull something off other than pull out the nerf bat... this often takes time. This is also risk vs reward though, and may well be worth it!!! Like with the Moon Mining Arrays, so patience is advised. So the technicals has to be worked out, but having Capital class anoms off the local nodes may give the room needed to solve those issues. So... yeah this is not my main char. I'm a returning player of 2003-1008ish vintage, and by my alts CCP shall know me. I've been flying Motherships aka Supercarriers since they were introduced to the game. Life happened, I had kids and then life happened again and I'm back. So there you go, CCP are just too awesome like that and deserve cred for it. Hey, my ship(s) were still here when I came around to log back on, so there's that. Anyway, here's for hoping this catches on and you find my idea worth pondering. Cheers! No I did not post this sober, hey it's fri.. it was friday!
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 4044	Posted - 2017.06.17 07:39:17 - [2297] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: You mean the Drifter incursions that were slaughtering hundreds of Thrashers each day while printing 3-5 billion ISK per site? I ran those for 3 days and made 22 bil. You mean the heavily bugged sites that weren't working properly and as soon as they did that doctrine evaporated in favour of the lossless doctrines instead. Also yes they killed thrashers but since thrashers are cheaper than a single fighter and fighters are effectively 'ammo' that doesn't really count as a comparison. As for Akktu. Being subscribed for years does not give you rights to have an unbalanced mechanic. Yes capital anoms will be great to have.... though of course they can't be any more lucrative than at present anyway. Since it doesn't matter how 'dangerous' the opponents are. As for blind cyno's, LOL, yeah..... can't possibly see that going wrong one way or another. Either it will be gameable and the big entities will be able to make sure the cyno's are inside their territory for the first few to farm them, or it will be too random and no-one with a brain will use the content making the development time worthless.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 25	Posted - 2017.06.17 12:21:17 - [2298] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: You mean the Drifter incursions that were slaughtering hundreds of Thrashers each day while printing 3-5 billion ISK per site? I ran those for 3 days and made 22 bil. You mean the heavily bugged sites that weren't working properly and as soon as they did that doctrine evaporated in favour of the lossless doctrines instead. Also yes they killed thrashers but since thrashers are cheaper than a single fighter and fighters are effectively 'ammo' that doesn't really count as a comparison. As for Akktu. Being subscribed for years does not give you rights to have an unbalanced mechanic. Yes capital anoms will be great to have.... though of course they can't be any more lucrative than at present anyway. Since it doesn't matter how 'dangerous' the opponents are. As for blind cyno's, LOL, yeah..... can't possibly see that going wrong one way or another. Either it will be gameable and the big entities will be able to make sure the cyno's are inside their territory for the first few to farm them, or it will be too random and no-one with a brain will use the content making the development time worthless. So either content is broken and gameable and will be monopolized by bigsec alliances or it's broken and useless to everyone? So.... I guess it's official, EVE is actually a dead game.
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory. 13	Posted - 2017.06.18 15:14:45 - [2299] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Maybe if we had sites that could be done co-operatively using the new large grid where shooting/hacking this tower over here impacts that structure 1000km away over there and everyone on grid (who isn't cloaked) shares the payouts along the way, but even then supers could split their squadrons to some extent, though the range would place them at greater risk of losing fighters to PvP. Extend the grid to 20,000 km and merge combat sites by type or description. Essentially switching off normal ratting criteria and going full DED site. There will be an equilibrium point then, where capitals cannot align to the next spawn as quickly and in turn don't have the DPS spread to finish the site at a reasonable clip compared to battleship and faction cruiser counterparts. Valdr Auduin wrote: content is broken and gameable and will be monopolized by bigsec alliances or it's broken and useless to everyone? So.... I guess it's official, EVE is actually a dead game. No it just needs more DED.
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory. 13	Posted - 2017.06.18 15:31:08 - [2300] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Lord Heluene wrote: So now CCP.............you have taken away my ability to mine, and you are about to take away my ability to rat........I don't PVP unless forced to. People still mine and still rat. No ability were taken away from you. The incentive is still there like Frostys addresses. Lord Heluene, ratting should not be viewed as dps = ISK. In fact it can be more lucrative than mining in that it's augmented by drop You are just as likely to land an additional combat site or high valued faction rat wreck, as you are to be engaged by a solo PVP'er entering your sov in that tick cycle. Yes, PVP will happen in both circumstances, fighting npc rats will happen in both circumstances; the two styles of play in tandem complement and reinforce any one toon's survivability. So, ratting or mining, which do you find more proficiency and having more replicability per login? Regardless of the nerfs, that is not something CCP decides for you.

Plama145 Plamiasty Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.06.19 18:42:50 - [2301] - Quote Hello There! Dear CCP Crew On the beginning, why in the patch notice was not clear described reduction to mother ship and carriers but some link forward? Anyway, how you can write about fixing some "**" and add some skins for ship if nobody give a about that,you do nothing at all in this game , you should start working at McDonald not in this game development. Till to this time ( and i play this game very long time )i give you 2 examples witch still not fixed: 1 think : when you go to escalation 10/10 Maze and you hit (bump the gate or another derbs) you can't switch off the WARP, my question is ? when you get this done? 2 think: why you reduced / nerf Fighters and give us some stupid explanation about 2% players generating 20% ISK by itself, try to make to right but not reducing my PVP Very easy way to do that is strength-up EHP or resist HOW possible is for Ship witch cost around 20 B , is no able to shoot off a ***** Dred?? I asking you why?? somebody has there a brain disease? Or you trying to suck out everything what you can, coz you have so GÇ£disableGÇ¥ marketing. Keep it going and rest of players gonna put this game GÇ£out of windowGÇ¥ and you gonna become unemployed coz nobody will employ a losers. P.s A year ago, we got the long awaited Capital ship changes which finally revitalized the class as a whole. It was obvious that Capital ships were going to be very powerful, both in PVP and PVE. You gave us powerful end game ships to work towards - something worth commitment to Eve. Roughly six months later you did the same thing with the Rorqual. Now, a year after these changes, when most players have finally begun to benefit from them, you reduce the ships back to roughly where they were before.
AAetius Retlow Zero's 27 Strains inPanic 2	Posted - 2017.06.20 06:36:17 - [2302] - Quote Did the song Supercaps just come true!!??? https://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 646	Posted - 2017.06.20 07:55:34 - [2303] - Quote Plama145 Plamiasty wrote: Hello There! Dear CCP Crew On the beginning, why in the patch notice was not clear described reduction to mother ship and carriers but some link forward? Anyway, how you can write about fixing some "**" and add some skins for ship if nobody give a about that,you do nothing at all in this game , you should start working at McDonald not in this game development. Till to this time ( and i play this game very long time )i give you 2 examples witch still not fixed: 1 think : when you go to escalation 10/10 Maze and you hit (bump the gate or another derbs) you can't switch off the WARP, my question is ? when you get this done? 2 think: why you reduced / nerf Fighters and give us some stupid explanation about 2% players generating 20% ISK by itself, try to make to right but not reducing my PVP Very easy way to do that is strength-up EHP or resist HOW possible is for Ship witch cost around 20 B , is no able to shoot off a ***** Dred?? I asking you why?? somebody has there a brain disease? Or you trying to suck out everything what you can, coz you have so GÇ£disableGÇ¥ marketing. Keep it going and rest of players gonna put this game GÇ£out of windowGÇ¥ and you gonna become unemployed coz nobody will employ a losers. P.s A year ago, we got the long awaited Capital ship changes which finally revitalized the class as a whole. It was obvious that Capital ships were going to be very powerful, both in PVP and PVE. You gave us powerful end game ships to work towards - something worth commitment to Eve. Roughly six months later you did the same thing with the Rorqual. Now, a year after these changes, when most players have finally begun to benefit from them, you reduce the ships back to roughly where they were before. the difference between your op and the ps says a lot dude.
TsuRuiChen Gallentius Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.06.20 23:51:36 - [2304] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: still would like fighters to be less ezmode anti-everything Honestly Fighters are way "ezmode" to kill, they have huge sigs and its beyond easy to defang a carrier, if anything nerf Hotdrop spam.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 219	Posted - 2017.06.21 00:21:17 - [2305] - Quote TsuRuiChen Gallentius wrote: TrouserDeagle wrote: still would like fighters to be less ezmode anti-everything Honestly Fighters are way "ezmode" to kill, they have huge sigs and its beyond easy to defang a carrier, if anything nerf Hotdrop spam. Or just bring a single Griffin. Carriers are laughably vulnerable in small numbers where they don't have enough firepower spread across enough targets to take out enemy ships quickly.
Valdr Auduin CatPack 28	Posted - 2017.06.21 01:04:10 - [2306] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: TsuRuiChen Gallentius wrote: TrouserDeagle wrote: still would like fighters to be less ezmode anti-everything Honestly Fighters are way "ezmode" to kill, they have huge sigs and its beyond easy to defang a carrier, if anything nerf Hotdrop spam. Or just bring a single Griffin. Carriers are laughably vulnerable in small numbers where they don't have enough firepower spread across enough targets to take out enemy ships quickly. You require more pylo- tubes.
Siliya Critical Mass Project The Bastion 9	Posted - 2017.06.21 22:58:22 - [2307] - Quote Guess they kept the agro changes even tho they said they were going to leave them out
Jang Taredi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2017.06.23 14:53:49 - [2308] - Quote Siliya wrote: Guess they kept the agro changes even tho they said they were going to leave them out I noticed a slight increase in aggro.
Trevize Demerzel 108	Posted - 2017.06.27 22:21:24 - [2309] - Quote Ya it's very obvious they kept the aggro changes. Maybe not 15% but ya.... There's also a fairly obvious change to hitting frigs. I can put all 5 squads on a frig and it can take quite a while before they get lucky enough to hit it... Great info that! Beware the solo frig coming to defang a carrier. Tho they could already do that cause ya know it makes sense that a 5mil ship can render a 30bil ship weapons useless. -
Freeman Kurt Antwerpse Kerels Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.30 07:18:00 - [2310] - Quote I absolutely protest to these changes. I will not be buying anymore plexes and I will be unsubscribing the game time when it is over. Thank you ccp

Freeman Kurt Antwerpse Kerels Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.06.30 09:36:15 - [2311] - Quote The Judge wrote: Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see. Keep up the great work. I absolutely protest against these changes. I will not be buying anymore plexes and I will be unsubscribing when my game time ends. you make spaceships in the game worse to play and the carrier is not the solution to the isk faucet. the one percent makes all the isk and that sounds more of a problem from CCP than it is to us. Damage reduction at carriers saying it will make the game better for CCP financially is not what your customers want to hear The one percent are the characters who do trading in the game on a daily basis, so you should target them and not carriers. they have trillions of isk in their wallets and they spend it on skill injectors just because they have so much isk hanging around.
Naren Vintas Some Assembly Required. Rate My Ticks 18	Posted - 2017.06.30 09:54:57 - [2312] - Quote I want to chip in and say that hardly anyone supports these changes indeed. That the discussion on the subject has died is most discouraging. Personally I am glad the CCP decided to reduce the nerfs, but I am still disheartened about how sudden the change was and was hardly discussed outside the dev team, it seems. Getting only a couple of days of notice for a "solution" to a problem that has way deeper roots is very consumer unfriendly. I do hope they look at the ISK generation "problem" with carriers in a meaningful way, but I hope they will not penalize those who decided to train into carriers and spent months training for the carriers, only to be nerfed to the point that afk-ratting is again "the best" way to earn money. And sure, you can train to carrier with injectors quite quckly, and that can be both bad and good thing. On one hand, it makes the carriers more readily available. More people getting carrier means that we're not niche 6% of the population anymore. On the flipside I can understand that the money generated would skyrocket. But alas, this is not the problem with carrier balancing, but rather the methods used to generate said isk. I assume that when the CCP designed combat anomalies for people to rat in, they did not anticipate carrier usage in this scenario, and while the carriers were rare it was alright, but suddenly more people are generating more money with it. This should not call for the carrier nerf itself, but rather revision of how the money is generated. However. I stand for actively playing the game, and carriers are great active way to play the game. I would not like the AFK Ishtar ratters to earn more money than an active carrier, especially since they cost far less and can generate the income with next-to-no attention and can be left running for great part of the day. The way that CCP seems to favour multiboxing and afking does not look promising to me as a player. Freeman Kurt wrote: I absolutely protest against these changes. I will not be buying anymore plexes and I will be unsubscribing when my game time ends. you make spaceships in the game worse to play and the carrier is not the solution to the isk faucet. the one percent makes all the isk and that sounds more of a problem for you than it is to us. Damage reductions at carriers saying it will make the game better for you financially is not what your customers want to hear The one percent are the characters who do trading in the game on a daily basis, so you should target them and not carriers. they have trillions of isk in their wallets and they spend it on skill injectors just because they have so much isk hanging around. I would strongly advise against announcing that you are unsubscribing. The forum moderators do not differentiate between going Free to Play (aka Alpha Clone) and Quitting the Game. The posts of the latter are against the forum terms of use, and will use that as a reason to remove your post. Also, this change doesn't concern traders. Traders do not "generate" money, they flip the money that already exists in the economy. They take money from other players. Ratting, on the other hand, generates the money and puts it into the system.
Freeman Kurt Antwerpse Kerels Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.07.02 05:27:35 - [2313] - Quote Naren Vintas wrote: I want to chip in and say that hardly anyone supports these changes indeed. That the discussion on the subject has died is most discouraging. Personally I am glad the CCP decided to reduce the nerfs, but I am still disheartened about how sudden the change was and was hardly discussed outside the dev team, it seems. Getting only a couple of days of notice for a "solution" to a problem that has way deeper roots is very consumer unfriendly. I do hope they look at the ISK generation "problem" with carriers in a meaningful way, but I hope they will not penalize those who decided to train into carriers and spent months training for the carriers, only to be nerfed to the point that afk-ratting is again "the best" way to earn money. And sure, you can train to carrier with injectors quite quckly, and that can be both bad and good thing. On one hand, it makes the carriers more readily available. More people getting carrier means that we're not niche 6% of the population anymore. On the flipside I can understand that the money generated would skyrocket. But alas, this is not the problem with carrier balancing, but rather the methods used to generate said isk. I assume that when the CCP designed combat anomalies for people to rat in, they did not anticipate carrier usage in this scenario, and while the carriers were rare it was alright, but suddenly more people are generating more money with it. This should not call for the carrier nerf itself, but rather revision of how the money is generated. However. I stand for actively playing the game, and carriers are great active way to play the game. I would not like the AFK Ishtar ratters to earn more money than an active carrier, especially since they cost far less and can generate the income with next-to-no attention and can be left running for great part of the day. The way that CCP seems to favour multiboxing and afking does not look promising to me as a player. Freeman Kurt wrote: I absolutely protest against these changes. I will not be buying anymore plexes and I will be unsubscribing when my game time ends. you make spaceships in the game worse to play and the carrier is not the solution to the isk faucet. the one percent makes all the isk and that sounds more of a problem for you than it is to us. Damage reductions at carriers saying it will make the game better for you financially is not what your customers want to hear The one percent are the characters who do trading in the game on a daily basis, so you should target them and not carriers. they have trillions of isk in their wallets and they spend it on skill injectors just because they have so much isk hanging around. I would strongly advise against announcing that you are unsubscribing. The forum moderators do not differentiate between going Free to Play (aka Alpha Clone) and Quitting the Game. The posts of the latter are against the forum terms of use, and will use that as a reason to remove your post. Also, this change doesn't concern traders. Traders do not "generate" money, they flip the money that already exists in the economy. They take money from other players. Ratting, on the other hand, generates the money and puts it into the system. You say that traders take the isk but if ccp is pointing that one percent is earning bigger rewards with isk why not go for the traders as well. They are the one percent because they have the most isk over everyone else
FubukiYsera 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.07.02 21:52:42 - [2314] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Great changes are u player ??? realy ??? th-¦s dev blog totaly useless.. all csm only help to ccp not player..
FubukiYsera 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.07.02 22:06:22 - [2315] - Quote ccp guys... and all csm members... all together go to hell.. ccp play wh-¦t all players not play this game tnx ccp...for k-¦ll th-¦s game
FubukiYsera 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.07.02 22:12:26 - [2316] - Quote all ccp members leaders workers etc... 2002-2016 cant make money ???? ccp -¦s go-¦ng down ???? what your problem ??? f-¦rst game chance to free to play.. and last 6 mounth all dev blog and all change -¦s bullsheet.. u read to forum ????? u healty ??? Are you sure you are not blind??
FubukiYsera 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.07.02 22:19:10 - [2317] - Quote rorqual nerf carr-¦ers nerf s++pers nerf all sh-¦ps nerf all moduls nerf everyth-¦ng nerf result : eve onl-¦ne -¦s dead did u know s++per tra-¦n t-¦me ??? rorqual tra-¦n t-¦me -¦ spend real Money for my game t-¦me -¦ dont need -¦sk for plex but -¦n last 1 years all chance -¦s bullshet and th-¦s top-¦c -¦s suck. nerf nerf nerf.... enough... enough ccp... dont touch th-¦s game If you want to do something add to new sh-¦p mod++l system npc type etc... read to forum page. l-¦sten to player.. not your self
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1849	Posted - 2017.07.03 06:27:04 - [2318] - Quote I am pretty sure, they will keep implementing something new... we pay real money to skill it faster and after that, we gonna pay real money again to extract the skill points, because they are useless.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 219	Posted - 2017.07.03 17:36:16 - [2319] - Quote Freeman Kurt wrote: You say that traders take the isk and carriers don't but if ccp is pointing that one percent is earning bigger rewards with isk, why not go for the traders as well. They are the one percent because they have the most isk over everyone else in the game right now. The traders should get nerfed not carriers and The carrier ratters are not rich like the traders are The concern isn't that too few players are getting too much ISK, it's that too much new ISK is being added to the economy and the small group of players are an easier target than larger groups. Ratting makes new ISK out of thin air and is the largest ISK faucet; trading takes ISK out of the game in the form of tax and NPC broker fees and is the largest ISK sink. Why would they nerf the people doing the most to fight the problem? Also any kind of nerf to trading will hurt small traders exponentially more than the top traders who control whole markets and don't have to compete as much. If anything it will help the big traders by making it harder for anyone else to approach a level where they could compete.
Valdr Auduin Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2017.07.04 01:08:51 - [2320] - Quote mining makes new isk out of thin air, hence their nerf of the rorqual what the real problem is, and we've run around this bush more than a dozen times in this thread alone, is that the isk is being created faster than it's being destroyed CCP clamping down on revenue streams isn't solving the problem, they need to promote expense activities, which means wars what promotes wars? territory fights, raiding supply lines and resourcing operations so, I see two keypoints in this problem, three technically: Fozzie SOV needs a 'balance pass' or twelve Moon Mining Complexes are coming up and everyone is getting blue balls Citadels are too easy to install and/or too hard to remove That's it, that's really what I see it boiling down to after all this conversation. Sudden thought: what if NPC factions bought things off the player market? Literal CCP-controlled buy-bots programmed with a timer or something that bought at an established floor/ceiling price (set by CCP employees because any pure AI mechanism can be gamed) with some variation metric to give it that small illusion of organic behavior. Hmm, wait, but that doesn't destroy isk per-say, it just creates an outflow of product at a presumably below market valuation to act as a small firebreak against player-created runs- it destroys isk, but only in a sideways fashion.

Freeman Kurt Antwerpse Kerels Circle-Of-Two 0	Posted - 2017.07.04 07:00:15 - [2321] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Freeman Kurt wrote: You say that traders take the isk and carriers don't but if ccp is pointing that one percent is earning bigger rewards with isk, why not go for the traders as well. They are the one percent because they have the most isk over everyone else in the game right now. The traders should get nerfed not carriers and The carrier ratters are not rich like the traders are The concern isn't that too few players are getting too much ISK, it's that too much new ISK is being added to the economy and the small group of players are an easier target than larger groups. Ratting makes new ISK out of thin air and is the largest ISK faucet; trading takes ISK out of the game in the form of tax and NPC broker fees and is the largest ISK sink. Why would they nerf the people doing the most to fight the problem? Also any kind of nerf to trading will hurt small traders exponentially more than the top traders who control whole markets and don't have to compete as much. If anything it will help the big traders by making it harder for anyone else to approach a level where they could compete. CCP does and does not care about the economy in this game and the employees, players, and I don't know how to fix it. They know we as players want this economy to be fixed in game by being able to plex our accounts inside the game, so they don't care about the economy. They know players can make, generate, and take isk in the game, so we can play this game for free, so they will care about the economy. The story goes like that and it will not change. They haven't been doing the best and that is ok every company makes a mistake here and there. What ccp is trying to do is make players and I generating isk through buying more of their plex while their point of view and opinion is that nothing we do inside this game will and should be enough to get our ships, so we can have an incentive to sell our plex in game to cover our ship losses and that this will solve all our problems and to compound the problem further they make us pay for our yearly subscription. This means they will use plex as their extra asset to get more money out of the game and This means they will continue in the future to nerf ships like the vexor navy issue, Ishtars, carriers, and rorquals because they are prime targets for making isk in the game right now and soon it will be be DED sites and so on....
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory. 14	Posted - 2017.07.05 03:11:07 - [2322] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: what the real problem is, and we've run around this bush more than a dozen times in this thread alone, is that the isk is being created faster than it's being destroyed CCP clamping down on revenue streams isn't solving the problem, they need to promote expense activities, which means wars. It's not just about wars, it is the ceded space: one side laying claim to another's does not change the potential flow of ISK, only where it pools. If the game has to course correct on account of overfarming NPC kills, let the NPCs grind sov and reduce the playerbase's pie.
Valdr Auduin Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2017.07.05 07:52:22 - [2323] - Quote Tessa Sage wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: what the real problem is, and we've run around this bush more than a dozen times in this thread alone, is that the isk is being created faster than it's being destroyed CCP clamping down on revenue streams isn't solving the problem, they need to promote expense activities, which means wars. It's not just about wars, it is the ceded space: one side laying claim to another's does not change the potential flow of ISK, only where it pools. If the game has to course correct on account of overfarming NPC kills, let the NPCs grind sov and reduce the playerbase's pie. I made a few posts about having empire space try to expand into nullsec at the corps' and alliances' expense, it'd create a minimum of activity and let CCP take a more active hand in breaking down calcified territory that fails to move content. That might also help clean out the excess citadels, having NPC cleaners roving through, but that'd need some careful work- then again, the worst they could do in retaliation is siege the markets until concord and random militias roving through bleeds them dry. It'd be a **** move and would put the final nail in the coffin of "end-game content", but I dunno, it might be good for the game, I can't say.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 219	Posted - 2017.07.05 17:23:05 - [2324] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Tessa Sage wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: what the real problem is, and we've run around this bush more than a dozen times in this thread alone, is that the isk is being created faster than it's being destroyed CCP clamping down on revenue streams isn't solving the problem, they need to promote expense activities, which means wars. It's not just about wars, it is the ceded space: one side laying claim to another's does not change the potential flow of ISK, only where it pools. If the game has to course correct on account of overfarming NPC kills, let the NPCs grind sov and reduce the playerbase's pie. I made a few posts about having empire space try to expand into nullsec at the corps' and alliances' expense, it'd create a minimum of activity and let CCP take a more active hand in breaking down calcified territory that fails to move content. That might also help clean out the excess citadels, having NPC cleaners roving through, but that'd need some careful work- then again, the worst they could do in retaliation is siege the markets until concord and random militias roving through bleeds them dry. It'd be a **** move and would put the final nail in the coffin of "end-game content", but I dunno, it might be good for the game, I can't say. Anything that puts the final nail in the coffin of "end-game content" also puts a pretty huge nail in the coffin of many players' hopes and dreams. A lot of us started playing with dreams of joining an alliance and forging our empire, eventually flying supers and titans, and participating in these epic giant space battles. CCP has been repeatedly attacking that dream on multiple fronts: sov changes that promote isolation and lack of interaction, citadels that promote lack of interaction, jump fatigue that promotes lack of interaction, making supercaps cheap and accessible so they're no longer as special, nerfing anything appealing into the ground and leaving people with cumulative centuries of wasted training across the playerbase, and more. Some players with that dream like me have been holding on, hoping things get better. If CCP finally kills that dream a lot of players are going to leave and many more won't join the game in the first place.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1400	Posted - 2017.07.05 22:56:15 - [2325] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: Tessa Sage wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: what the real problem is, and we've run around this bush more than a dozen times in this thread alone, is that the isk is being created faster than it's being destroyed CCP clamping down on revenue streams isn't solving the problem, they need to promote expense activities, which means wars. It's not just about wars, it is the ceded space: one side laying claim to another's does not change the potential flow of ISK, only where it pools. If the game has to course correct on account of overfarming NPC kills, let the NPCs grind sov and reduce the playerbase's pie. I made a few posts about having empire space try to expand into nullsec at the corps' and alliances' expense, it'd create a minimum of activity and let CCP take a more active hand in breaking down calcified territory that fails to move content. That might also help clean out the excess citadels, having NPC cleaners roving through, but that'd need some careful work- then again, the worst they could do in retaliation is siege the markets until concord and random militias roving through bleeds them dry. It'd be a ** move and would put the final nail in the coffin of "end-game content", but I dunno, it might be good for the game, I can't say. I'm not sure you understand what "nulsec" is and how it works (or doesn't, as the case may be). How would making nulsec safer by turning it into empire space create activity? Yes the carebear factor (the single largest group in the game) would have somewhere new to run missions without risk (aside from CODE which is really no risk if you're smart). What nulsec needs (what the game needs) is more content and less interference from Devs - Manipulating Plex and letting prices run wild so CCP can attempt to make more money out of a limited number of players. Sov mechanics that would be better suited to a game called clowns and fairies, where magic wands and ECM is the key to "winning" a system. Nerfs to everything that is used by those who do make an effort to go out looking for fights. Nerfs to income from carriers because 1% of 1% of players were making too much isk. Nerfs to Rorquals because ONE region (owned by Goons) mines more ore than the rest of TQ combined). These things aren't "balanced" in any way - CCP Employees created these problems (and were warned about most of it before they were released) and are now punishing those who aren't part of the problem (smaller groups and individuals) and not "fixing" anything. Those who rat in Supers are still making dank isk while those who carrier rat are now better off running a couple of AfkTars. As for the Nerf to fighters, it worked wonderfully - Smaller groups don't field carriers in PVP now because the large groups just bring more to make up for the lower damage. Devs have gone out of their way to reintroduce N+1 on an even larger scale than it ever has been before. The guy who only owns and runs one rorqual with a couple of exhumers is making a lot less per hour, while those in Delve (the second highest region for mining is also Goons according to a Dev graph) with 40 or 50 or more Rorquals are still raking in dank isk and out mining everyone else on TQ combined. And they do it in relative safety due to sov mechanics and isolation (Delve is a ** place to get to with fiirepower enough to take out a fleet of rorquals) and even if you do manage to kill half of some guys fleet, he has replaced them by the next day and is back out there.. A fix for one man fleets of Rorquals is quite simple - Limit the "Mine Repeatedly" to 5 minutes at a time - This would force Rorquals to be actively managed, I'm not sure many would want to alt tab through 40 or 50 characters every 5 minutes to reactivate drones. At the moment you need to check your Rorquals about every 30 minutes, making it too easy for them to be multi boxed. I'm not going to get into Citadel mechanics, I think everyone who has ever interacted with one knows how broken they are. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Veritas Totient Tai-Chi Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2017.07.06 17:44:43 - [2326] - Quote I think that Networked Sensor Array should disallow move like bastion/siege/triage. This would be a good nerf for those PVE carriers.
Benje en Divalone 18	Posted - 2017.07.06 18:21:39 - [2327] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: mining makes new isk out of thin air, hence their nerf of the rorqual. Mining does no such thing. It makes raw materials (ore,ice,gas) out of thin air which is a similar but entirely different faucet. The natural sink for mining's output is getting stuff blown up which this game is (supposedly) very good at. ISK's faucets are completely overwhelming its sinks and the only metric out of equilibrium is bounty payouts.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 220	Posted - 2017.07.06 18:29:10 - [2328] - Quote Veritas Totient wrote: I think that Networked Sensor Array should disallow move like bastion/siege/triage. This would be a good nerf for those PVE carriers. No, it would completely kill a majority of PvP carriers while barely affecting PvE. In PvE you can fit 2-3 sensor boosters, not fit a cloak, lock targets well before you need them, and sitting still isn't that bad. In PvP you can't afford to use slots on sensor boosters, you might need a cloak, and you definitely need to be able to lock targets quickly and get out quickly because you don't have any of a dread's strengths that let it sit there and commit to a fight.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1401	Posted - 2017.07.07 08:44:34 - [2329] - Quote Veritas Totient wrote: I think that Networked Sensor Array should disallow move like bastion/siege/triage. This would be a good nerf for those PVE carriers. And what happens to them when in a fight? How does the Sensor array tell the difference between fighting NPC's and other players? OR is the thought that Carriers should be stationary and just die. Remember the Network Sensor array give no bonuses to anything other than lock speed and targets locked, where as Bastion, Siege and Triage all give tank bonuses. Silly suggestions are just silly. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.08 22:35:22 - [2330] - Quote FubukiYsera wrote: rorqual nerf carr-¦ers nerf s++pers nerf all sh-¦ps nerf all moduls nerf everyth-¦ng nerf result : eve onl-¦ne -¦s dead did u know s++per tra-¦n t-¦me ??? rorqual tra-¦n t-¦me -¦ spend real Money for my game t-¦me -¦ dont need -¦sk for plex but -¦n last 1 years all chance -¦s bullshet and th-¦s top-¦c -¦s suck. nerf nerf nerf.... enough... enough ccp... dont touch th-¦s game If you want to do something add to new sh-¦p mod++l system npc type etc... read to forum page. l-¦sten to player.. not your self Maybe instead of mewling incomprehensibly, you could explain how allowing a grossly outsized influx of new ISK to persist is good for the game and the economy. I'll wait. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.09 02:26:59 - [2331] - Quote Freeman Kurt wrote: CCP does and does not care about the economy in this game and the employees, players, and I don't know how to fix it. They know we as players want this economy to be fixed in game by being able to plex our accounts inside the game, so they don't care about the economy and this problem. They know players can make, generate, and take isk in the game, so we can play this game for free, and they will care about the economy and this problem. The story goes like that and it will not change. They haven't been doing the best and that is ok every company makes a mistake here and there. What ccp is trying to do is make players and I generating isk through buying more of their plex while their point of view and opinion is that nothing we do inside this game will and should be enough to get our ships back, so we can have an incentive to sell our plex in game to cover our ship losses and that this will solve all our problems and they will compound the problem further by making us pay for our yearly subscription. This means they will use plex as their little extra asset to get more money out of the game and This means they will continue in the future to nerf ships like the vexor navy issue, Ishtars, carriers, and rorquals because they are prime targets for making isk in the game right now and soon it will be be DED sites and so on.... CCP you want to nerf carriers by 100 percent and then stop the nerfs half way when you get complaints. No you put that damage back the way it was originally or you stick with your changes all the way through, so we know who's side you are really on. Are you on the customers complaining side or are you on your own side? CCP stop this! CCP don't do it! And CCP listen to your customers and the people on these forums Thank you, Freeman Kurt Yeah, hi, I have a question. First, there are some things you seem to be unaware of. A: For you to be able to buy PLEX with ISK, someone else has to be willing to buy PLEX with RL money and sell them. B: The amount of ISK entering the game has steadily been on the rise. C: The consumer price index has traditionally tended to decrease or, at least, failed to rise as quickly as the money supply. The net effect of B+C is that everyone not only has more money, but the "spending power" of that money has grown relative to the cost of in-game goods. So my question is: If this situation is allowed to progress to the point that everyone has more than enough money to fund their in-game activity, who's going to sell you the affordable PLEX you seem to believe you're entitled to? "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Valdr Auduin Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2017.07.09 13:00:31 - [2332] - Quote Benje en Divalone wrote: Valdr Auduin wrote: mining makes new isk out of thin air, hence their nerf of the rorqual. Mining does no such thing. It makes raw materials (ore,ice,gas) out of thin air which is a similar but entirely different faucet. The natural sink for mining's output is getting stuff blown up which this game is (supposedly) very good at. ISK's faucets are completely overwhelming its sinks and the only metric out of equilibrium is bounty payouts. The month's numbers are in, 63 Trillion and change in bounties and only a mild adjustment in the velocity of isk and a general dropoff in rates of increase otherwise. Maybe they should just nerf the payout on bounties in general? ED: Or y'know, figure out a way to get the alliances fighting each other seriously again.
Ace Aideron Safe-Space 12	Posted - 2017.07.09 13:18:59 - [2333] - Quote I would like to suggest the following ideas with regard to addressing game balance issues: 1. Never nerf ships or modules or skills. By reducing the capabilities of ships and modules, you are purposefully devaluing things that players have either worked hard for in-game, or paid real money for, or both. Nerfing, by its nature, has caused a lot of player heartache and animosity toward CCP. No nerfs also reflects the real world better, which is a plus in Eve. (If I buy an expensive drilling ship in the real world, all kinds of problems might turn up with regard to the sites I can mine or how much I can sell my ore for, but the ship itself doesn't change). 2. Address serious game balance issues in more creative ways. If capitals are earning "too much" isk, then consider things like making the sites harder when a capital is involved, as in w-space. Or maybe sites respawn at increasingly slower rates. Or maybe Concord decides to pay bounties on a per-character sliding scale of some kind. Similarly, for mining, perhaps new mining anoms respawn more slowly after they're mined-out. Or mining anoms could have increasingly difficult NPCs when Rorqs are on-field -- or there could be an entirely new mechanic that more accurately reflects the fact the limited nature of resources.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.09 17:43:56 - [2334] - Quote Ace Aideron wrote: I would like to suggest the following ideas with regard to addressing game balance issues: 1. Never nerf ships or modules or skills. It's hard to adequately express how laughably childish this notion is. When one thing is broken, you fix the one thing. You don't allow it to define the new baseline and then try to correct the entire rest of the universe to accommodate it. Quote: By reducing the capabilities of ships and modules, you are purposefully devaluing things that players have either worked hard for in-game, or paid real money for, or both. Nerfing, by its nature, has caused a lot of player heartache and animosity toward CCP. No nerfs also reflects the real world better, which is a plus in Eve. (If I buy an expensive drilling ship in the real world, all kinds of problems might turn up with regard to the sites I can mine or how much I can sell my ore for, but the ship itself doesn't change). First of all, this isn't the real world. The real world doesn't give a **** about "balance". This is a game, in which balance is vitally important. Secondly, captain obvious, devaluing those items is the entire damn point. They're overpowered, and need to be brought back into line. If that hurts someone's feefees, that's just too damn bad. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to chase after the destined-to-be-nerfed flavor of the month. If this "never nerf" idiocy were actually policy throughout Eve's history, you'd now have a game with hundreds of titans that can fire grid-wiping doomsdays from lightyears away through a cyno. It's an embarrassingly simple-minded notion. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
IIDjangoII The Alpha and the Omega Circle-Of-Two 7	Posted - 2017.07.09 20:49:20 - [2335] - Quote do u realise there are players multiboxing (if you can call afk ratting multiboxing) 10-20 vni/ishtars. this 1 dimensional little calculation you have come up with to illustrate your point doesnt really take that into account. you cannot afk 10 supers. of course this does not bother you tho because you are getting 10-20 subscriptions out of it, while actual gameplay is of no interest to you whatsoever as you do not actually play, and neither do any of the csm, unless you call logging in every two weeks to spout some bullsh*t from inside of station playing.
Freeman Kurt Antwerpse Kerels Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.07.09 21:38:36 - [2336] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Ace Aideron wrote: I would like to suggest the following ideas with regard to addressing game balance issues: 1. Never nerf ships or modules or skills. It's hard to adequately express how laughably childish this is. When one thing is broken, you fix the one thing. You don't allow it to define the new baseline and then try to correct the entire rest of the universe to accommodate it. Quote: By reducing the capabilities of ships and modules, you are purposefully devaluing things that players have either worked hard for in-game, or paid real money for, or both. Nerfing, by its nature, has caused a lot of player heartache and animosity toward CCP. No nerfs also reflects the real world better, which is a plus in Eve. (If I buy an expensive drilling ship in the real world, all kinds of problems might turn up with regard to the sites I can mine or how much I can sell my ore for, but the ship itself doesn't change). First of all, this isn't the real world. The real world doesn't give a ** about "balance". This is a game, in which balance is vitally important. Secondly, captain obvious, devaluing those items is the entire damn point. They're overpowered, and need to be brought back into line. If that hurts someone's feefees, that's just too damn bad. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to chase after the destined-to-be-nerfed flavor of the month. If this "never nerf" idiocy were actually policy throughout Eve's history, you'd now have a game with hundreds/thousands of titans that can fire grid-wiping doomsdays from lightyears away through a cyno. It's an embarrassingly simple-minded notion. The answer is no to nerfs. titans don't need to be nerfed to the ground because they make the game fun for some people. I laugh with enjoyment because I'm decimating hundreds of ships because I had the time and money to do it. Balancing this game has become a huge money grab from ccp. If ccp was not involved with plex, i wouldn't be complaining. This nerf ** has turned from doing their right nerfs to their wrong nerfs. The right nerfs should be what the majority players want to change and the wrong nerfs should be what the minority want to change. The right nerfs is almost always the wrong thing to do to have fun like nerfing The Golem and raven navy issue from pvp and the wrong nerfs make problems worse than they already are like the Ishtar and vexor navy issue from pvp and generating isk. Customers want to see a good quality product from CCP like Microsoft did with the Xbox with better things to come. Microsoft has done that by adding more games to their console, they have added better graphics to their games in comparison to the original PlayStation , and they added online gameplay features to some of their games, and they don't touch and balance most of their games. In other words, They added and improved things for the Xbox by making it better, so games like Halo could exist to be fun and Halo has never changed and the game is still rediculously fun to play to this day. Microsoft doesnt nerf their products because they know they would make more money if they improved and added quality to their Xbox. That also kept them competitive with other companies like Sony. CCP have added things to the game and they didn't improve the game or their product by making things worse.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.09 21:47:09 - [2337] - Quote Freeman Kurt wrote: This nerf **** has turned from doing their right nerfs to their wrong nerfs. What are the right nerfs? Wait. Let me guess. The ones that don't affect you. Amirite? "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.09 21:51:01 - [2338] - Quote IIDjangoII wrote: do u realise there are players multiboxing (if you can call afk ratting multiboxing) 10-20 vni/ishtars. Do you realize that despite this, the entire class of T1 cruisers - not just VNIs - generated less in bounties than either carriers or supercarriers did independently? Carriers and supercarriers generated nearly half of the bounties in their sample. The rest were generated by every other ship in the game, collectively. So, what's your point? "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Freeman Kurt Antwerpse Kerels Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2017.07.09 22:19:50 - [2339] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Freeman Kurt wrote: This nerf **** has turned from doing their right nerfs to their wrong nerfs. What are the right nerfs? Wait. Let me guess. The ones that don't affect you. Amirite? No, the ones that affect the customers for the company, the people who play this game, and the people on these forums In addition, I just so happen to be here because I didn't like their Rorqual nerfs, the ded site nerfs, and they made faction BPC's more rediculously expensive to buy by bringing up the mineral requirements for it and they want no one to fly them particularly in doctrines because they nerfed ded sites.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.09 22:39:36 - [2340] - Quote Freeman Kurt wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Freeman Kurt wrote: This nerf **** has turned from doing their right nerfs to their wrong nerfs. What are the right nerfs? Wait. Let me guess. The ones that don't affect you. Amirite? No, the ones that affect the customers for the company, the people who play this game, and the people on these forums In addition, I just so happen to be here because I didn't like their Rorqual nerfs, the ded site nerfs, and they made faction BPC's more rediculously expensive to buy by bringing up the mineral requirements for it and they want no one to fly them particularly in doctrines because they nerfed ded sites. So you think the game is better when minerals are rendered effectively valueless through sheer abundance, and the only battleships worth flying are pirate battleships, which are not only objectively better, but are also more cost effective than their T1 counterparts. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Ace Aideron Safe-Space 13	Posted - 2017.07.10 07:38:13 - [2341] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Secondly, captain obvious, devaluing those items is the entire damn point. They're overpowered, and need to be brought back into line. If that hurts someone's feefees, that's just too damn bad. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to chase after the destined-to-be-nerfed flavor of the month. The whole idea of "destined-to-be-nerfed" is completely wrong-headed. IMO, nerfing is an intellectually lazy solution to balance issues. You may not care how it makes people feel, but assuming CCP cares about their customers and doesn't intentionally want to drive them away (always a possibility!), they should. If nerfing was a no-go from the beginning, CCP would be motivated to be much more careful and thorough about introducing potentially balance-altering changes. Once introduced, if they were "too powerful," (by some nebulous standard) then other aspects of the environment could be adjusted. There are many, many ways to achieve balance that don't result in players feeling like they've had something stolen from them. Although Eve is certainly "just a game," it's different from most games in a couple of important ways. First, it can takes months or even years to skill up to things like capital ships. Second, it can take hundreds of hours and/or dollars to reach your goals. Those supporting nerfs (including CCP) clearly don't understand the psychology of the Eve player base. If you intentionally want to drive those players away, then sure, nerf to your heart's content. OTOH, if you want to keep those players, then nerfing is a bad, bad idea, that should be undertaken only as a last resort.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF LowSechnaya Sholupen 220	Posted - 2017.07.10 10:25:18 - [2342] - Quote Ace Aideron wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Secondly, captain obvious, devaluing those items is the entire damn point. They're overpowered, and need to be brought back into line. If that hurts someone's feefees, that's just too damn bad. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to chase after the destined-to-be-nerfed flavor of the month. The whole idea of "destined-to-be-nerfed" is completely wrong-headed. IMO, nerfing is an intellectually lazy solution to balance issues. You may not care how it makes people feel, but assuming CCP cares about their customers and doesn't intentionally want to drive them away (always a possibility!), they should. If nerfing was a no-go from the beginning, CCP would be motivated to be much more careful and thorough about introducing potentially balance-altering changes. Once introduced, if they were "too powerful," (by some nebulous standard) then other aspects of the environment could be adjusted. There are many, many ways to achieve balance that don't result in players feeling like they've had something stolen from them. Although Eve is certainly "just a game," it's different from most games in a couple of important ways. First, it can takes months or even years to skill up to things like capital ships. Second, it can take hundreds of hours and/or dollars to reach your goals. Those supporting nerfs (including CCP) clearly don't understand the psychology of the Eve player base. If you intentionally want to drive those players away, then sure, nerf to your heart's content. OTOH, if you want to keep those players, then nerfing is a bad, bad idea, that should be undertaken only as a last resort. This right here! Having stuff nerfed never feels good to those who have invested in it. Eve seems to be in a perpetual cycle of making new or rebalanced stuff overpowered then nerfing it into uselessness a few months later. Balance is an evasive ideal, and in many ways is actually really boring, but having this constant obvious imbalance that's only ever "fixed" by nerfs is far worse. It feels like we keep having to choose between investing time and money in something mediocre or investing time and money in something good and hoping we have time to get something out of it before it suddenly becomes mediocre. Neither option is enjoyable and I'm tired of playing a game where the only options are to make the wrong choice or to have reality shift and make the right choice wrong with little to no warning.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.10 14:04:13 - [2343] - Quote Ace Aideron wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Secondly, captain obvious, devaluing those items is the entire damn point. They're overpowered, and need to be brought back into line. If that hurts someone's feefees, that's just too damn bad. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to chase after the destined-to-be-nerfed flavor of the month. The whole idea of "destined-to-be-nerfed" is completely wrong-headed. IMO, nerfing is an intellectually lazy solution to balance issues. You may not care how it makes people feel, but assuming CCP cares about their customers and doesn't intentionally want to drive them away (always a possibility!), they should. If nerfing was a no-go from the beginning, CCP would be motivated to be much more careful and thorough about introducing potentially balance-altering changes. Once introduced, if they were "too powerful," (by some nebulous standard) then other aspects of the environment could be adjusted. There are many, many ways to achieve balance that don't result in players feeling like they've had something stolen from them. Although Eve is certainly "just a game," it's different from most games in a couple of important ways. First, it can takes months or even years to skill up to things like capital ships. Second, it can take hundreds of hours and/or dollars to reach your goals. Those supporting nerfs (including CCP) clearly don't understand the psychology of the Eve player base. If you intentionally want to drive those players away, then sure, nerf to your heart's content. OTOH, if you want to keep those players, then nerfing is a bad, bad idea, that should be undertaken only as a last resort. Explain how CCP would have balanced the entire game around remote AOE cyno-fired doomsdays without nerfing them. When you can't, realize how ridiculously infantile the entire concept of never nerfing things because the player-base contains a handful of emotionally unstable children who can't come to grips with the fact that a persistently developed game requires balance tweaks really is. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3459	Posted - 2017.07.10 19:59:57 - [2344] - Quote Ace Aideron wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Secondly, captain obvious, devaluing those items is the entire damn point. They're overpowered, and need to be brought back into line. If that hurts someone's feefees, that's just too damn bad. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to chase after the destined-to-be-nerfed flavor of the month. The whole idea of "destined-to-be-nerfed" is completely wrong-headed. IMO, nerfing is an intellectually lazy solution to balance issues. You may not care how it makes people feel, but assuming CCP cares about their customers and doesn't intentionally want to drive them away (always a possibility!), they should. If nerfing was a no-go from the beginning, CCP would be motivated to be much more careful and thorough about introducing potentially balance-altering changes. Once introduced, if they were "too powerful," (by some nebulous standard) then other aspects of the environment could be adjusted. There are many, many ways to achieve balance that don't result in players feeling like they've had something stolen from them. Although Eve is certainly "just a game," it's different from most games in a couple of important ways. First, it can takes months or even years to skill up to things like capital ships. Second, it can take hundreds of hours and/or dollars to reach your goals. Those supporting nerfs (including CCP) clearly don't understand the psychology of the Eve player base. If you intentionally want to drive those players away, then sure, nerf to your heart's content. OTOH, if you want to keep those players, then nerfing is a bad, bad idea, that should be undertaken only as a last resort. People crying because their game pixels got nerfed are just as bad as people crying about losing pixels in the game. You are playing a game where balance matter. If you are not ready to get your stuff nerfed one in a while, quit now because that's literally how all damn MMO work.
Valdr Auduin Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 35	Posted - 2017.07.10 21:08:25 - [2345] - Quote This page gave me a fun new idea. When something is released, namely a module or ship, the mineral requirements and research times should be exorbitant (i.e. 100x what would be considered for normal releases) as well as having several science skills tier the effectiveness of the item along with a rotating list of drawbacks (Jury Rigging comes into play here) that trigger ever more frequently or simply accumulate, rendering the modules more or less useless and obsolete after a certain period of time- call it Generation Zero Tech (regardless of the tier, T1 T2 and T3 are all Gen0 on first release). Once CCP is able to observe the item in play and watch how it's used and abused, the next generation of the technology is released, the same module with whatever nerfs or tweaks they deem necessary, the mineral costs come down, science skills still buff the effectiveness but to a lesser extent, and researching the efficiencies takes less time, while still in a testing phase Generation One Tech still accumulates drawbacks and renders active modules steadily obsolete, though somewhat slower than Generation Zero Tech and in a much more useful timescale. Generation Two Tech is the official rollout of what we consider a normal ship or item, science skills are no longer required to squeeze out the module's maximum effectiveness, costs and research times are normalized, and the item is assumed to be more or less balanced and drawback accumulation occurs on a one-in-a-million timescale creating a slow stream of replacement demand for whatever survives the fighting as the months pass after release. If CCP decides they've well and truly ****** something up, Generation Three Tech releases allow for a final nerf or upgrade, again, costs come down from Gen 2 but research times skyrocket (this is the final evolution of the technology, doing it faster and cheaper doesn't happen without a large expense), drawbacks remain as rare as Gen 2 tech examples. Once Gen 2 is released, Gen Zero BPOs will accumulate drawbacks with each copy or run cycle that are passed on to all items or BPCs made from them, Pure Gen 0 BPCs can also be invented from these degraded BPCs keeping a rare few top-line models in circulation; If Gen 3 is released, Gen 1 and Gen 2 BPOs suffer the same fate, becoming obsolescent.
Ace Aideron Safe-Space 14	Posted - 2017.07.10 22:03:09 - [2346] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Explain how CCP would have balanced the entire game around remote AOE cyno-fired doomsdays without nerfing them. Ideally, if CCP had a policy of no nerfs, they would have thought more deeply about the feature before they introduced it. Post introduction, here are a few ideas that wouldn't involve a nerf to the Titan: 1. Activating the doomsday could immediately make it possible for ships near the cyno to target and shoot the Titan. 2. Activating the doomsday could cause time dilation to start in the system with the cyno, giving pilots there time to react. 3. Activating the doomsday could make it possible to target and shoot a cyno from a much longer distance. 4. Firing the doomsday to a cyno that was destroyed could cause back-blast that massively damages the Titan. (I'm sure others could come up with better ideas than me; the key point is that there are approaches other than straight-out nerfs). If changes like those weren't enough or possible or feasible, then of course a nerf could be done as a last resort. The idea isn't to be absolutist about it -- rather, it's to get away from nerfing as the primary go-to solution for balance issues. SurrenderMonkey wrote: When you can't, realize how ridiculously infantile the entire concept of never nerfing things because the player-base contains a handful of emotionally unstable children who can't come to grips with the fact that a persistently developed game requires balance tweaks really is. I never said don't make balance tweaks. I said no nerfs should be a front-line policy, and that balance tweaks can be made in many ways other than nerfing. From my perspective, compulsively swinging the nerf bat seems a lot more infantile than thinking things through and making a concerted effort to not make customers feel like they've had something stolen.
Ace Aideron Safe-Space 14	Posted - 2017.07.10 22:11:25 - [2347] - Quote Valdr Auduin wrote: This page gave me a fun new idea. I like this idea, although I think the desired effect could be achieved in a simpler way. What if all new mods and ships were released first as "rentals"? No BPs. The items would be good for a month (or whatever), and then they just disappear. Everyone would know ahead of time that the items were limited, so it wouldn't be a surprise when they go away.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3277	Posted - 2017.07.10 22:17:19 - [2348] - Quote Ace Aideron wrote: Ideally, if CCP had a policy of no nerfs, they would have thought more deeply about the feature before they introduced it. Post introduction, here are a few ideas that wouldn't involve a nerf to the Titan: 1. Activating the doomsday could immediately make it possible for ships near the cyno to target and shoot the Titan. 2. Activating the doomsday could cause time dilation to start in the system with the cyno, giving pilots there time to react. 3. Activating the doomsday could make it possible to target and shoot a cyno from a much longer distance. 4. Firing the doomsday to a cyno that was destroyed could cause back-blast that massively damages the Titan. So for the sake of subscribing to a ridiculously futile policy, your alternatives include: Rendering the use of a DD essentially nonsensical, and co-opting a serverload balancing technique that makes the game immensely less enjoyable to play? And you think this would be better than just fixing the one thing that's actually a problem? Quote: From my perspective, compulsively swinging the nerf bat seems a lot more infantile than thinking things through and making a concerted effort to not make customers feel like they've had something stolen. "Compulsively swinging the nerf bat"? What's "compulsive" about presenting the data showing why something is a problem, along with the economic realities necessitating change? The problem here seems to be that you've opted to remain wholly ignorant of the actual process. If you have one nail sticking out, do you bring the entire structure to the nail? Or do you just hammer the nail back into place? Should all ships have been made nano-fast to compensate for that meta? Should all frigates be buffed to the power the Worm currently enjoys? Once that's done, what do we do with the rest of the ships now that the baseline for frigates has been adjusted to overpowered? Good job, now we have a powercreep deathspiral and you've effectively guaranteed the cessation of any real progress by increasing the workload of balance requirements by multiple orders of magnitude. If balance changes make you feel like you've had something stolen, you need to get over yourself. That's no different than commercial fishermen complaining about catch limits preventing them from fishing the big-money species into extinction. It's short-sighted, juvenile, self-destructive, eye-rollingly stupid selfishness. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Freeman Kurt Antwerpse Kerels Circle-Of-Two 2	Posted - 2017.07.12 06:01:15 - [2349] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Ace Aideron wrote: Ideally, if CCP had a policy of no nerfs, they would have thought more deeply about the feature before they introduced it. Post introduction, here are a few ideas that wouldn't involve a nerf to the Titan: 1. Activating the doomsday could immediately make it possible for ships near the cyno to target and shoot the Titan. 2. Activating the doomsday could cause time dilation to start in the system with the cyno, giving pilots there time to react. 3. Activating the doomsday could make it possible to target and shoot a cyno from a much longer distance. 4. Firing the doomsday to a cyno that was destroyed could cause back-blast that massively damages the Titan. So for the sake of subscribing to a ridiculously futile policy, your alternatives include: Rendering the use of a DD essentially nonsensical, and co-opting a serverload balancing technique that makes the game immensely less enjoyable to play? And you think this would be better than just fixing the one thing that's actually a problem? Quote: From my perspective, compulsively swinging the nerf bat seems a lot more infantile than thinking things through and making a concerted effort to not make customers feel like they've had something stolen. "Compulsively swinging the nerf bat"? What's "compulsive" about presenting the data showing why something is a problem, along with the economic realities necessitating change? The problem here seems to be that you've opted to remain wholly ignorant of the actual process. If you have one nail sticking out, do you bring the entire structure to the nail? Or do you just hammer the nail back into place? Should all ships have been made nano-fast to compensate for that meta? Should all frigates be buffed to the power the Worm currently enjoys? Once that's done, what do we do with the rest of the ships now that the baseline for frigates has been adjusted to overpowered? Good job, now we have a powercreep deathspiral and you've effectively guaranteed the cessation of any real progress by increasing the workload of balance requirements by multiple orders of magnitude. If balance changes make you feel like you've had something stolen, you need to get over yourself. That's no different than commercial fishermen complaining about catch limits preventing them from fishing the big-money species into extinction. It's short-sighted, juvenile, self-destructive, eye-rollingly stupid selfishness. These are all just theories to what can happen and none of what you said is just simple to understand. There isn't going to be one thing that will be the sotutioon for everything and theories like your ideas cannot be solved and Not even what I say is the solution to our problems. What we really need is to hear ccp talking to us like we are doing it here, so we can respond the right way and we don't hurt each others feelings. Do you see where I am going with this? United and we will prevail
Cearain Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing 1515	Posted - 2017.07.20 16:38:28 - [2350] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img] [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img] UPDATE 2017-06-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data. Greetings Capsuleers, Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, letGÇÖs take a look at whatGÇÖs coming. The Data: LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. Why: Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties. [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img] This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles. What: Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%) Support Fighters: No Change Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage) Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%) Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%) We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date. We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change. So you want to modify the pve bounties that these ships get. But you don't make any changes that are specific to pve and only make changes that will hurt the ship in pvp as well. This makes no sense. Just make the npcs effective at killing the fighters and leave the pvp alone. Or give some support that these ships need to be nerfed in pvp even though you already nerfed earlier. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815



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