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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Larrikin
C C P C C P Alliance
758

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Posted - 2017.06.09 09:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.
Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.
What:
- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
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CCP Larrikin
C C P C C P Alliance
758

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Posted - 2017.06.09 09:58:07 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
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ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution.
123
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:05:02 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
FGS I just bought i Super grrrr |

Mizhir
TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED
75455
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:06:05 -
[4] - Quote
I have a funny little feeling that this will upset a lot of people 
Death rides a fast C4mel
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Intigo
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
118
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:08:23 -
[5] - Quote
Haha, this should be great. Good changes!
hydra provail
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Anna Wong
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:08:46 -
[6] - Quote
What about citadels? The damage output especially from the medium citadels is low enough without a further reduction |

Suitonia
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
878
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:10:18 -
[7] - Quote
Great changes
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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Julia Zamorska
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:10:20 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:keep it healthy for all our players.
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
How about removing carriers and supercarriers. Its not like they are useful after recent fighter nerf. |

Lightbringer
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:10:59 -
[9] - Quote
April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke |

Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
3050
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:13:21 -
[10] - Quote
Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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0pec
Mission Teamsters Union
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:15:10 -
[11] - Quote
ya let's nerf everything that'll fix our game |

Whut The Hel
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:15:23 -
[12] - Quote
"....there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties."
>nerfs the ship itself
:thinkgun: :thinking: |

Mister Toucher
SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST The-Culture
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:18:06 -
[13] - Quote
At this point you might as well just remove supers from the game.
Please gimp them more. |

Tim Nering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry. Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
179
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:18:21 -
[14] - Quote

Stop Caring Start Fragging! Join R3D Fire Today!
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Lucy Callagan
Furnace Thermodynamics
267
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
This is a very good change.
Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails. |

Lillith Obyzouth
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:22:31 -
[16] - Quote
nice going bud .. nerf the dam ship I just paid for / trained into  |

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
6003
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:23:30 -
[17] - Quote
Justified changes but they miss the key point.
All PVE rewards were balanced against player and ship power in the ~2010 era.
Player ships have been 'rebalanced' multiple times since then. Almost all of these changes have been significant power increases. Level 5 missions and 10/10 sites used to be nontrivial fleet sites, now they are readily soloed.
The key to addressing this balance issue is to increase the combat capabilities of NPCs in line with the increases player ship power has experienced.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
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Dafarr Maul
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
9
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:23:59 -
[18] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting.
Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people.
lol, atlest if you bitching here, you aint bitching in game
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svobouch bouchovci
ScumLord Excavation and Evisceration ChaosTheory.
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:24:18 -
[19] - Quote
Seriously... Go f* yourself. Why are u runing to ruin this game. U are not doing changes u only nerfing. |

iFars
monkey attack squad Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:24:22 -
[20] - Quote
You change capital ships every year, we do not have time to throw out the SP |
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Lightbringer
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:24:54 -
[21] - Quote
Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell? |

Kestrel Clairvoyant
Mine 'N' Refine Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:25:49 -
[22] - Quote
These calls for massive uprising of players. Whats next? guns are too OP lets fight with sticks in space...#fuCCP |

Prometheus Hinken
Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers
28
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:26:12 -
[23] - Quote
Lillith Obyzouth wrote:nice going bud .. nerf the dam ship I just paid for / trained into 
Extract, retrain in to a Naglfar, and rat in that!
Ontopic: yay! |

Hetwiyha
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:26:22 -
[24] - Quote
Oh...wait....
Carriers and Supers with drones are to easy for Krabbing, lets change to fighters and let them multitask, that will fix income...
No "big" wars, all are krabbing, more isk is generated, lets change damage for Carriers/Supers....
All are krabbing then more, because still no big wars and less income then before, CCP, whats next?
Perhaps its just because nothing big is going on and all have time for do this instead of having fights over SOV because of Foz.... :P
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Elena Cassidy
Fink Operations Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:21 -
[25] - Quote
hey lets nerf everything that makes money end game thanks ccp think i might be leaving game permintly this time now theres gonna be no way to afford anything cant do rorq mining it got nerf bat from hell cant do Carrier or Super Ratting its getting nerfed to hell now why is end game Stuff getting nerfed. You are making it impossible to to pay for this game within the game because you are trying to be money hungry with this stupid *** plex meta bull****. wake up CCP your killing your own game |

Logan Jakal
Blue Sun. DARKNESS.
25
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:22 -
[26] - Quote
So since you decided to go fully ******** on every income source, what's left for making ISKs ?
Oh, high-sec Incursions, forgot about these. |

Two in TheGoo
Smokey Mirrors
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:26 -
[27] - Quote
Nerf a PvP ship because you're fundamentally unable to design good PvE content gz again on another successful patch
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Inquisitor Lucious
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:26 -
[28] - Quote
Hahaha CCP you may as well just title all your dev post 'heres how we are going to screw with goons now -' and THEN the changes you are implementing |

Mashie Saldana
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
1639
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:27:32 -
[29] - Quote
inb4 WTS Hel. Also CCP if you want me to unsub all my acc incl. 250mill sp just tell me now. Lets go back to farming in ishtar guys ! yay !
How to win EVE
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ISD Bubblemoon
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
80
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hello!
Guys, please don't forget about the forum rules .
Thank you 
ISD Bubblemoon
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Portia Venice
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:28:18 -
[31] - Quote
CCP, I can't for the life of me figure out why this is a good change. The last 2 years in a row ISK making opportunities have been major nerfed. In order to plex my account i have to spend more time playing this game. I understand you have to make money but so do i to keep playing. If it becomes an issue where i cannot keep playing due to ISK method Nerf (continuous) than i will no longer be able to play eve. This isn't a grr you post or a angry post, its a real problem i foresee for many players my self alike. Super ratting was the only reason for me to move out to NULL to be with Goonswarm. You nerf all of Null (ore atoms, Ratting) but you do not touch High security space Incursions? .... Yes i post terribly I'm sorry. |

Ralph Shepard
The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans
17
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:28:38 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions. Which means this is just an excuse from you. |

Hikkata
Sequent Industry Red Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:29:34 -
[33] - Quote
Intigo wrote:Haha, this should be great. Good changes! Wut? But why? One tengu can jam two carriers. Why are you doing this? |

Tobias Frank
43
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:30:16 -
[34] - Quote
Hey, what about making reasonable changes from the start and not nerf it into the ground AFTER the players invested huge amounts time and ressources in things like supercarriers or rorquals. We are not in World of Warcraft where we can simply reroll to another class in a few days or so. In EVE, it is really frustrating. |

Anthar Thebess
1697
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:30:30 -
[35] - Quote
Wait what? Srlsly no. Who had this idea?
STOP MAKING CAPITALS AND SUPERS ****** IN PVP.
If you wan to slow down PVE income - reduce bounty, or increase the rat EHP.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|

Vitak Zerath
Finnish Space Jaegers Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:30:37 -
[36] - Quote
Im pretty sure that if the MERs continue like this, there will be timers on ratting anoms too.
Im not complaining though. I agree that having such massive isk faucets is bad. |

Tiesto DJ
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:31:20 -
[37] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting.
Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people.
Read as, **** off VNI/Ishtars. I want Sacs to myself and dont touch obvious op fighters. |

Lura Zara
Worlds Without Boundaries Special Forces
23
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:34:51 -
[38] - Quote
Heres a grand Idea, Nerf incursions. The amount of ISK made through that alone is ridiculously farmed. However now your talking about nerfing capital ships again. Which I hardly see as a good thing when a capital is far more likely to die in actual combat than an incursion bear.
Then again theres always the VNI Navys out there with multiple accounts soloing all the high end anoms with no self risk as they watch a movie.
But yes its the capital ships/fighters. not the NPC bountys or income or site difficulty that was based off of a meta the better part of a decade ago.
CCP please rethink this. |

NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
332
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:35:28 -
[39] - Quote
All these null nerfs... W-Space looking more attractive Epic Nice!
Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
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Abagah Khan
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
3
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:35:36 -
[40] - Quote
So rather than address the obvious issues of incursions, you yet again massively weaken capitals in pvp. People who train and invest ~30bn in a ship should be able to make more isk than someone ratting afk in a vni.
If you really want to reduce isk availability, hammer on incursions and reduce overall bounty availability. Rather than yet again going full hammer on anyone who trained into a capital |
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Odinessa
Jones' Barbecue and Foot Massage
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:35:45 -
[41] - Quote
At the rate you are going, you will end up running off most of your player base with these nerfs to fun content. Your real nerf is to nerf the numbers of players, until there are none left. |

DutchGunner
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
200
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:36:17 -
[42] - Quote
I can see that some changes were needed considering the high ticks one can make when running anomolies in carriers and the even higher ones with super carriers.
However I think that this reduction in damage is too strong. Why not start with 10% for the light attack fighters and 15% for the heavy attack ones. If that is still not enough, you can always do another.
I can see that some balance is needed in the bigger ships for both mining, pve and pvp but this is taking it a bit too far in one go. |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1290
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:36:38 -
[43] - Quote
still would like fighters to be less ezmode anti-everything |

Requiescat
Adversity. Pandemic Legion
212
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:36:58 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. a 5 or 10% change might have been reasonable but a change as dramatic as 30%, over a year after implementation tells me that either you and the rest of your dev team haven't been paying attention, or you're completely incompetent. which would you rather it be?
hi i'm requiescat, and i'm your best friendGÖÑ
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Portia Venice
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:37:12 -
[45] - Quote
Time to Login high-sec incursion smartbombing alts to wage war against the high-sec ISK making bears. |

Lord Kaho
Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two
3
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:37:46 -
[46] - Quote
:D
They cant fix the server for bigger cap fights... So nerf Supers... And there will not be capital fights anymore.
Good job. How many money got the brain of this idea? :D
I hope much! Now CCP dont need to work on the serves :P |

Laborus Necrae
The Cobrastan Cabal Sect
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:37:54 -
[47] - Quote
Greed is Good! |

She11by
Big Boys Don't Cry Kids With Guns Alliance
11
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:38:09 -
[48] - Quote
Carriers and motherships are sh*t in pvp already, why are u doing it... any ab ship can tank even mothership 24\7 |

commander aze
429
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:38:28 -
[49] - Quote
Ok fine. I get it. Not thrilled cause that was my gravy train. But neef all the things...
Just one question. Why in the heck would you further screw cardier ratring but yet again upping the chance of fighter dieing. Its already a stupid number of fighters dead please just not that. Everything else is fine but for the love of god dont keep screwing with that percent chance of switching. You habe to reward the carduer and super carrier ratrers for fielding the isk in some way.
Commander Aze For CSM XII
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=506400
Support the Community #Broadcast4Reps
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Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
8
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:38:45 -
[50] - Quote
This whole thing is had to call bullshit.
Yeah, capital ships are gives you easy ISK, but why you had to wait with that? PL, NC. and goon now ratted enough? They mining and ratting with these ships 23/7. This do bad for the market, not those, who use it ratting 1-2 hours. Or did you ever tried to farm your monthly plex? And after that you should buy some ships etc to actually really play the game not just farm yourself over the days.
Those, who farmed the **** out with this will keep their money I guess, so this change will **** up only smaller players. This will not resolve the problem with powerblocks, either the problem with market, since bigguy will be able to make more and more money, couse they already have enough money. They will farm like hell on, they wll mining on too.
You have to learn shitload to be able to fly those ships, and you have to spend shitton of money. And now it will be pointless, couse with this money you can bring 4 other ships, and it will be able to fight, their weapons will not jammed by a 3 day old char.
I have to say this is the first time I started to think I will stop that game, couse after so many years you started to do these, but it is late, and all these changes will give better chances for those, who already have. |
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Zduhac Aldent
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:40:01 -
[51] - Quote
Lol that moment when you were laughing at roqu changes and now karma and ccp hits you. But no really i support this, it is very very unfair for me who have trained for a whole ******* YEAR and few months earning money to buy super to have larger income then l4 mission runner. oh Eve what have you become, less you invest yourself in Eve the better it is for you
Also not to even talk about **** carriers are in pvp at the moment and now you are killing it even more, why dont you just delete supercarrers and carries out of the game, oh wait you actually did that now, from now on we will only be seeing them on pictures and reading tales of carriers and how at some point ppl were actually building them and using them |

Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:40:11 -
[52] - Quote
CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map.
All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want.
Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden. |

Lquid Drisseg
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:42:25 -
[53] - Quote
This is only going to very slightly curb the money supply, people ratting in carriers will be hit the hardest and they will just jump into supers which will still clear sites like nobodys business.
Can you please just address the root cause and publicly say that isk generation in EVE is flat out broken and need to be rethought from the ground up? |

claus Hanson
Facetious Indifference DARKNESS.
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:43:47 -
[54] - Quote
So u basicly implement the rorq's being able to mine a super in no time (yes rorq's are silly overpowered, also pvp wise) and now close to every 1 flies a carrier/super because of the Rorq's
And then u surprised people are making more Money.
CCP logic i guess |

Firnen Bakru
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
please nerf incursions aswell then |

Portia Venice
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:07 -
[56] - Quote
Sassura wrote:CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map.
All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want.
Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden.
Except for the fact we don't put thousands of M/3 of ore on the market, you can blame the Russians for that. |

Meridon Arthas
Pain and pleasur Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:12 -
[57] - Quote
How I see the patches PvE/Mining ships from a fews months.
NERF 1.1 NERF 1.2 NERF 1.3 NERF 1.4....
CCP, U better have a look on ghost training than nerf ships wich need Isk investment like carrier and off course Rorqual and SP as well.
What's the problem ? People are too rich ? Better change the PvE than nerf everytime a ship or module. |

Kestrel Clairvoyant
Mine 'N' Refine Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:22 -
[58] - Quote
Sassura wrote:CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map.
All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want.
Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden.
Buhuu, so its our fault we play EVE and actually make ISK in it? Like Delve is biggest problem in game..jesus...get some common sense... all you haters can go f yourself back to whatever HS dump you crawled from... |

Lucy Callagan
Furnace Thermodynamics
268
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:28 -
[59] - Quote
To all the people complaining that : "I can't plex my account anymore, ccp is so greedy they want me to pay it with RL money"
Don't you understant that all the plexes that are in the game have been bought on CCP's website and therefore paying the sub in plex or RL money makes no difference to ccp ? |

Irenia Tsurpalen
Special Assault Unit IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:44:55 -
[60] - Quote
In terms of PvP, all you do is kicking smaller groups in the nuts. Fighters are already pretty easy to counter. In terms of PvE, of course there is a big amount of ISK being generated. People have nothing else to do. The Citadel age combined with an total unfun sov mechanic (something something easy to adjust if needed, do you remember?) killed it. Sure I had fun conquering my new home in Fountain but despite the enemy not fighting it took me weeks to fully secure everything thanks to the grinding. However the "war" for our new home was over within a week. This was just for one constellation. And you wonder why people do nothing but PvE'ing and waiting for the next big bang? Which you posponed to winter or even further, just remember how often you posponed the current sov mechanic and that is something I foresee for the "gold rush" update too. |
|

She11by
Big Boys Don't Cry Kids With Guns Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:45:09 -
[61] - Quote
Summary: buy plexes by money not isks patch. |

Epsilon Dog
Omega Armament
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:45:36 -
[62] - Quote
Don't touch PVP abilities of capitals ! |

Pier Rin
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:46:51 -
[63] - Quote
Maybe if you would not have introduced skill injectors there would not have been a problem????
Less carrier/super pilot, less rorqs, no need for nerfs????
And with every nerf/fix, 2 more problems pop up, please dont fix whats not broken. |

Zduhac Aldent
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:46:55 -
[64] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:This is a very good change.
Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails.
It is funny for you now, but what if you invested so much time and effort into something that will become meaningless now, how would you feel? |

Pepizaur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:46:57 -
[65] - Quote
This seems ham fisted but at least there are eyes on the problem. My question is why the anoms themselves aren't being looked at. It is very clear that when they were designed and the iterations to them since they were never meant to interact with the new fighter mechanics. I'm hoping this has lit a fire under your ass to revamp nullsec anomalies as a whole. If and when (plz tell me this is being worked on) this unintended interaction is fixed do you plan on reverting some of these ham fisted nerfs? The DPS nerf to SR FiBos seems strange and oh let's not forget you're announcing these changes 4 days ahead of time. 4 days? Why shoot yourself in the PR foot like this? |

Nex Gaius
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:47:13 -
[66] - Quote
Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Have you maybe taught of just nerfing the Rat Bounty instead of changing something that effect pvp as-well. Also nice nerf pass on the fighters and you still haven't fixed the Shadows. (Because 3.3bil isk DD totally worth it right guys?)
Gotta love CCP Dev team who changes the dumbest things. Lets add Fatigue so we can't have events like Asakai and B-R something which increased the player base so much.
Maybe if you made it so the content was easier to make the sink wouldn't get clogged with the crap content generation hairball you left in it...
:thinking: You are devs for a job and you basically drive players away with your changes... good way to keep a job right??? |

Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2883
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:47:51 -
[67] - Quote
Don't forget to remove some EHP and/or self-rep capability from NPC dreads while you're doing this change. Right now, a carrier's only barely able to overcome the local repair of NPC dreads. Removing this much damage from light fighters is going to make a carrier unable to kill them.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|

Huydo
Liga Freier Terraner Northern Coalition.
81
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:47:56 -
[68] - Quote
What about ECM vs Carrier?
Its still Possible to Perma Jam all the fighters with only one cheap t1 ecm frig. Its just ... not balanced.
|

Jonas Skypilot
Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:48:00 -
[69] - Quote
Well, isn`t 30% Basic Attack Dmg for Heavy Fighter too much? I can understand that Supers/Carrier are stong in PVE, but could`t we just reduce it like for 5/10 % for heafy fighter dmg and the light fighter dmg for 5% and balance/nerf Incursions more?
   |

Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:49:54 -
[70] - Quote
Kestrel Clairvoyant wrote:Sassura wrote:CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map.
All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want.
Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden. Buhuu, so its our fault we play EVE and actually make ISK in it? Like Delve is biggest problem in game..jesus...get some common sense... all you haters can go f yourself back to whatever HS dump you crawled from...
Mm Mine n Refine. That explains the dumb. Kick Mine N Refine ;)
I'm not laying any blame. I was simply offering CCP a clear suggestion on how to fix their perceived problems which would avoid nerfs that impact everyone but are aimed at a region that should not be named.
|
|

Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
3052
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tiesto DJ wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting.
Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people. Read as, **** off VNI/Ishtars. I want Sacs to myself and dont touch obvious op fighters. Got a problem with this, scared forum alt? If there are many carriers and supers ratting (even battleships and marauders) in a system and the VNIshtars take 3x to 10x as long to finish an anomaly, they just keep everyone from making money. They can, for all I care, put 2 VNIshtars in the same anomaly, for instance. This makes them finish these anoms faster and help everyone. But they cannot AFK rat any more with this, obviously. My entire problem is this AFK attitude as well as that they are so incredibly slow.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|

Lucy Callagan
Furnace Thermodynamics
269
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:50:20 -
[72] - Quote
Zduhac Aldent wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:This is a very good change.
Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails. It is funny for you now, but what if you invested so much time and effort into something that will become meaningless now, how would you feel?
I would get over it because when I was a kid, my mother taught me how to cope with frustration. |

Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
196
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:51:03 -
[73] - Quote
I don't make ISK with a carrier/super and I have never done it before, but I do have a super which I use for PVP on daily basis. This seems like a change that WILL nerf PVE, but also small gang super pvp, and it won't matter for big groups using supers at all. Nerfing/boosting ships, shouldn't be one sided, when you nerf one you need to think of a bigger picture how that will affect things..
People were ratting in Ishtars/VNI/carriers, rorquals came, people trained into rorquals, they are getting nerfed to being useless while decently fitted they are more than half price of a super.
1. Capital / big scale PVP is quite stagnant, specially capital pvp, majority of nullsec regions is safe for PVEing and some of the regions are almost perfectly safe PVE havens. 2. Moving supers in low/null is 100% safe with citadels, along with that removing a citadel is major pain in the ass 3. Lowsec groups are having their passive moongoo isk removed, and I'm pretty sure it will negatively affect groups that PVP a lot and use those moons for SRP. 4. Lowsec doesn't have really any ISK making oportunities or nothing that could even compare to nullsec, where nullsec is being much more inaccessible therefore making it really safe PVE havens
There's a lot more things to say but most of people know them. But, making people train rorquals then nerfing them, people using carriers and supers, then nerfing those too, completely changing/nerfing the only income of lowsec groups, nerfing and completely killing all life in high class wormhole space and many other things is really bad.
Eventually everyone is forced to go and live in nullsec when you count all the changes CCP has made, and nullsec is not that great either, people just farm, there's nothing to fight over, regions are safe for pve, inaccessible, spammed with 100s/1000s of citadels/structures and some would say that the SOV conquering mechanics are bad.
Our corporation does med-gang pvp in lowsec and we also use supers/capitals as a force multiplier, therefore this will affect us.
First reaction from a corp mate to this thread: http://i.imgur.com/yP0HR0S.png |

Skruff McGruff
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:54:22 -
[74] - Quote
wow. just wow. as someone who recently got into capitals and has extracted skills to fly different things this is seriously disheartening. I don't fly alts I'm not wrecking the economy with 4 rorqs and 4 hulk pilots mining colossal on repeat. I don't have all the time in the world to dedicate to isk making I have a very busy work schedule. and now you've nerfed both ships I just got into to help support my one toon and be able to afford things with my limited play time. on top of that, how can you not see that its not null carriers that are destroying the economy? its the damn plex. that **** is outrageous right now. look at the price of injectors and extractors. if anything I would be thinking our null carriers are ratting to pay for pvp ships which in turn will be lost at some point and that isk never really does that much to the economy. to make rats target the fighters more so it costs carrier pilots more money to play the way they should be able to play. if they are so OP as you like to say, why do I constantly read about carriers getting blown up, capped out, etc etc. To me it looks like you folks are scrambling to try and stop the economic climb of isk but really haven't figured out the main reason so youre just gonna nerf all the money making options one by one. What about exploration? I had a friend that made 550mil in a couple hours doing that just yesterday. That's way more than a ratting carrier will make in that amount of time, at least a T1 Carrier pilot. The way you go about this is pretty frustrating as well. I literally changed my toon out yesterday for this, and then today, 4 days before you enact these amazing changes, you pretty much dissolve the return on my investment. The train for these ships is long, arduous, and the rewards should match this. 30% to heavy fighters? Look how expensive the Hel is!! Sure people can make them with their own materials but then do something about that. Increase the change for fighters to get popped? Great so now 1/3 of our nerfed income can go to replacing our fighters, which are also expensive? Stop hurting the honest players who are just trying to have some fun and live their life. the rorq is one thing, that's totally passive, but still there is an element of risk to it. carriers are super active, you cannot passively make isk with them. you cannot drop drones, orbit at 100, and collect. I think a greater look needs to be given to the actual problem here instead of trial and error nerfing. To quote the great Bill S Preston Esq and Ted Theodore Logan, "This is most non-triumphant." |

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:55:04 -
[75] - Quote
OK CCP, let me get this straight ...
VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)
Seems balanced to me.
Do you guys even play this game ? =/
You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/
Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?
|

tbms
Arbiters of the Void Circle-Of-Two
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:55:47 -
[76] - Quote
time too stop playing ! |

Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:56:16 -
[77] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:To all the people complaining that : "I can't plex my account anymore, ccp is so greedy they want me to pay it with RL money"
Don't you understant that all the plexes that are in the game have been bought on CCP's website and therefore paying the sub in plex or RL money makes no difference to ccp ?
It will, couse if people not buy it for ISK, nobody will have to buy it from CCP. And since PLEX is more expensive then subscribe (maybe now i ****** it and it will be adjusted) CCP have more income from the PLEX market. So yeah. If people cannot plex their account, they will leave, and CCP will feel it. There have to be a pretty fair balance |

Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
684
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:56:26 -
[78] - Quote
Nobody likes to see his toy nerfed, but as it seems this was really an issue. So thanks for tackling it, even if it's surely a unpopular move.
Wouldn't a combination of applicaton nerf and a change in the NPC spawns in these sites (some more smaller ships the carrier has longer to chew on) have been better then this damage reduction? It put's the carrier in a difficult position PvP wise.
|

Meridon Arthas
Pain and pleasur Circle-Of-Two
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:57:40 -
[79] - Quote
Krypleria wrote:OK CCP, let me get this straight ...
VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)
Seems balanced to me.
Do you guys even play this game ? =/
You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/
Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?
40M VNI ? Damn, Can u contract me some plz ?
Full VNI fitted is 100M. and I did 18-20M tick |

Abagah Khan
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:59:08 -
[80] - Quote
Krypleria wrote:OK CCP, let me get this straight ...
VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)
Seems balanced to me.
Do you guys even play this game ? =/
You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/
Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?
what kind of poor is using a carrier that is only 2.5bn fit.... |
|

Moonlight Mernher
Machiavellian Empire Fidelas Constans
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:59:15 -
[81] - Quote
How about simply making anomalies' respawn timers longer? That would make en masse carrier/super ratting actually harder in terms of single system usage whilst not touching in large their pvp capabilities. |

FlexiusVII
OEG Freedom Among the Stars
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:59:56 -
[82] - Quote
Ew. Double carrier ratting just died for me. Gonna unpack my Ishtars and rat with 4-ish alts. Less effort, more money.
Adapt or die.
Practice makes perfect.
|

Abagah Khan
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:00:20 -
[83] - Quote
Rovinia wrote:Nobody likes to see his toy nerfed, but as it seems this was really an issue. So thanks for tackling it, even if it's surely a unpopular move.
Wouldn't a combination of applicaton nerf and a change in the NPC spawns in these sites (some more smaller ships the carrier has longer to chew on) have been better then this damage reduction? It put's the carrier in a difficult position PvP wise.
but this wasnt an issue.. Risk vs reward and how long it takes to train. its just another nerf trying to limit goons that will hit everyone |

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:01:56 -
[84] - Quote
Meridon Arthas wrote:Krypleria wrote:OK CCP, let me get this straight ...
VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)
Seems balanced to me.
Do you guys even play this game ? =/
You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/
Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?
40M VNI ? Damn, Can u contract me some plz ? Full VNI fitted is 100M. and I did 18-20M tick
I stand corrected, but I guess you got my point right ? |

Lucian James
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
169
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:02:08 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.
From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money.
Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotion investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting.
If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money.
I cam getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. |

C02
Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:02:21 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
How is this supposed to fix the problem? As long as players are incentivized to do nothing but amass large amounts of supers in one area, nothing is going to stop. Its unfortunate that CCP seems to have handed the keys of the kingdom to a certain region....(delve) and let them run rampant and somehow DIDNT foresee this becoming an issue. Instead of just making things useless or near to for players who dont have a 300 man super fleet ready to drop at a moments notice, maybe find a way to decentralize the wealth or make the risk equal to the payout. I'm not overly concerned with rat aggro as im not a moron who rats in a super (afk vni is the real problem, how CCP doesnt know this is ????) This seriously reduces the effectiveness of solo or small gang drops. This is a core game mechanics issue, not somehow a dps issue. How is it not just easier to make capital ratting a no go? Just make rats not spawn if a capital is present. As I am sure everyone cares, I am just sad to see CCP just nerfing solo or small groups due to Delve obliterating the economy rather than finding a way to correct the issue. People in eve have shown time and time again, you cut income by half, they just bring in two more toons (****TINFOIL***** THIS IS A MONEY GRAB #2017CONFIRMED) But none the less, the issue at its core remains.
WHY DO YOU HATE CAPITAL CONTENT CCP? lol
In all seriousness though, CCP Larrikin, please stop killing capital pvp, carriers in particular. The joke that is burst projectors, fighters which are jammable by a soft breeze, as well as their increased sig now to make sure not a shot is wasted on them. Not to mention the confusing mind game that is the long range FIBO bombs...... I understand that carriers should not be a soloPVPBBQmobile, but I'm under the impression most of the community felt they were in a good place pvp wise. (even though apparently 2 carriers cant alpha a Bhaalgorn now before it makes it back to gate)
TL;DR The point of this whole uneducated rant is to say that older players need an endgame. Not everyone loves to do nothing but fly faction/t1 frigs all day. You have taken my money gladly for 10 years. Please let me live my dream of having fun in the big ships I worked so hard for (and not be rendered useless by 1 sabre and or griffin.) and started playing Eve because of! And that nerfing the entire game wont stop delve from just doubling down to maintain.
****MOAR TINFOIL- Is the point to make buying PLEX the only viable income source? |

The Judge
Balkan Mafia Circle-Of-Two
85
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:02:32 -
[87] - Quote
Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work.
CSM XII Member and CSM XI Permanent Attendee
Diplomat for Circle-Of-Two
@_TheJudge on Twitter
[email protected]
|

Grella Khurelem
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:03:43 -
[88] - Quote
Ah, I was training for a super. Good thing you turned off my training queue! |

Decres Estidal
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Now that you have killed the damage can you make them have to be locked individually so they don't disappear a soon as fleets see them in PVP. That or make them take up less room or give carriers and supers bigger fighter bays this is just stupid now. |

Jenny Starwolf
ARZENAL The Serenity Initiative
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:07:12 -
[90] - Quote
So.. People makes Billions of ISK from un-subbed SP farms due to bug. CCP don't care about that.
People have to invest several billion ISK in a ratting carrier to get less than double that of some pleb in a 300m Gila, then actively participate in content via killing stuff and risking getting caught, but let's nerf them even harder after we just nerfed them.
Then supers come in, costing 8-9x that of the carrier making barely double the isk they do, let's nerf them to.
Carriers are almost completely useless in any kind of capital fleet fight as it is, you've basically insured they will never be used for anything now, as the asset risk of fielding them is much higher than the strategic value of having one on grid.
If players making too much ISK from ratting is the problem, nerf the income from ratting, reduce rat bounties by 20%. That way the (already ****** up) ratting dynamics of higher ISK risk equals higher ISK reward remains the same, but the overall ratting income is still lowered. |
|

C02
Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:07:43 -
[91] - Quote
Abagah Khan wrote:Rovinia wrote:Nobody likes to see his toy nerfed, but as it seems this was really an issue. So thanks for tackling it, even if it's surely a unpopular move.
Wouldn't a combination of applicaton nerf and a change in the NPC spawns in these sites (some more smaller ships the carrier has longer to chew on) have been better then this damage reduction? It put's the carrier in a difficult position PvP wise.
but this wasnt an issue.. Risk vs reward and how long it takes to train. its just another nerf trying to limit goons that will hit everyone
skill injectors are a thing now. it takes 300$ and 3 minutes to be a super pilot..... |

Korus90
With Fire and Iron I REALLY LIKE TRAINS
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:08:01 -
[92] - Quote
A good start, but the game will still be effectively dead in 3 or so years without significant changes to citadels and fozzie sov. They don't work together.
Why would anyone attack Delve? Aside from the sheer number of goons, good luck taking out 7 keepstars.
Why would anyone attack the north? 4 keepstars in AUTZ.
Not to mention all the Astrahus's and Fortizars there.
Oh and I went into Delve the other day, 71 Rorquals in one mining anom. 71. A single rorqual (maybe even two!) should be allowed to mine at full capacity and then after that there should be a penalty to rorqual mining when rorqs are on grid. Just like the diminishing return of multiple modules.
Sorry, rant over. |

iFars
monkey attack squad Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:08:12 -
[93] - Quote
After the general change of the capital ships, you have already changed the fighters. Do not touch anything else please. You spoil everything too often. |

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:08:59 -
[94] - Quote
The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work.
In my opinion, you dont know what your talking about. What are you doing in CSM ? |

Tobias Frank
45
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:09:12 -
[95] - Quote
The Judge wrote: Keep up the great work.
Great work would have been doing it right from the start, what we see now with Rorqual/Carrier nerfs AFTER MONTHS is almost the worst i have seen in MMO game development. |

Skruff McGruff
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:10:16 -
[96] - Quote
seriously though? you think carriers are the main "problem child"? How is that possible?? I can get 25m ticks in a rattlesnake, I can get 20 in a VNI/Ishtar doing NOTHING. and they are nothing to train for. Youre talking years of training for people and now youre reducing their payouts? All this is going to do is increase the VNI/Ishtar route. In certain areas of space I have lived we have a couple carriers ratting and a BAZILLION VNIs, even the Ishtar isn't that viable anymore over the VNI after that nerf. Oh, and 1/2 the VNIs are multi-boxed toons. This seems designed to hurt the solo characters so we are forced to spend more money to have more alts to support the lifestyle we have worked so hard for to play. I would rather pay an extra few dollars on my subscription than have this nonsense. But you'll probably end up doing both and more. |

Inquisitor Lucious
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:11:29 -
[97] - Quote
Seriously guys whatever you do, DO NOT skill extract your carrier/fighter skills to train up for dreads and HAWs |

Atlan Dallocort
Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots
84
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:11:55 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE [...] We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
You know you could balance PvE by changing the rats or bounties? I don't get "a bit too effective" and "30% reduction" in one sentence. Since when do you balance pvp ships with a focus on their pve options? |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2898
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:12:26 -
[99] - Quote
A year ago, we got the long awaited Capital ship changes which finally revitalized the class as a whole. It was obvious that Capital ships were going to be very powerful, both in PVP and PVE. You gave us powerful end game ships to work towards - something worth commitment to Eve. Roughly six months later you did the same thing with the Rorqual. Now, a year after these changes, when most players have finally begun to benefit from them, you reduce the ships back to roughly where they were before.
Maybe that's a good thing in the long run, maybe it's not. Maybe it pisses off so many people who feel that you pulled another bait and switch with training. Maybe it makes Battleships great again. But this is a major change that affects way more than running anomalies.
Obviously, this will have profound impacts across Eve, but it won't fix the underlying PVE problem, which is that resources never deplete, no matter how relentlessly you farm. I could run a thousand anomalies and the Blood Raiders would never bat an eye. They never send different ships, they never escalate, they never stop flying right into my guns. If I run Incursions, the Sanshas would basically do the same thing, but at least they move on to a different part of Eve every few days. Maybe you need to fundamentally rethink resource generation in Eve? Get rid of the unlimited local ratting opportunities. Maybe people who log in to find that there are no rats to kill will simply log out again. Or maybe they will do something else and make Eve more interesting. If you pursue this, however, it has to be across the board. Everything has to be finite or people will just shift to continuous PVE in another part of space.
Across the board, ISK-generating PVE should be more like wormhole space or Incursions. PVE content eventually depletes. Out of things to do locally? Leave home and go kill some dudes or crab it up some place new.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

Santinav
Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:12:26 -
[100] - Quote
Total disagree with that CCP.
Ive played (trained) since years to sit in an Super, and now ther Damage output is like an Carrier before....
*ding* SHAME!!! *ding* *ding SHAME!!! |
|

Tiesto DJ
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:12:51 -
[101] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Tiesto DJ wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting.
Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people. Read as, **** off VNI/Ishtars. I want Sacs to myself and dont touch obvious op fighters. Got a problem with this, scared forum alt? If there are many carriers and supers ratting (even battleships and marauders) in a system and the VNIshtars take 3x to 10x as long to finish an anomaly, they just keep everyone from making money. They can, for all I care, put 2 VNIshtars in the same anomaly, for instance. This makes them finish these anoms faster and help everyone. But they cannot AFK rat any more with this, obviously. My entire problem is this AFK attitude as well as that they are so incredibly slow.
Doesnt exactly matter with what account this is posted its still making a point. Stop being afraid of a forum avatar.
Yeah, this still sounds like "AFK tars screwing with my optimal ratting". Dont like it? Move systems, still dont like it or not allowed in DARKNESS. tough cookies? It is what it is? Why should people leveraging a game mechanic suffer because Rivr wants faster anom times for his leveraged game mechanic? |

Temnoyar
Russian ICE Bears Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:14:24 -
[102] - Quote
I hope this was a consequence of the use of drugs and alcohol... Pls stop it. |

Skruff McGruff
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:15:09 -
[103] - Quote
notice how flaky the wording of the explaination is - "we think" "a bit too effective". you are making drastic changes, at least stand behind your convictions with some form of sincerity and permanence. ie: "we have found carrier pve to be too powerful and it is hurting the economy, this is why..." |

Lucian James
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
171
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:15:27 -
[104] - Quote
The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work.
This is NOT an example of 'great work'. You and CCP are not being creative enough. Carriers are already garbage capitals only useful in blobs of 50+... and you want to reduce damage.
You could affect how NPC payouts go per the ship that killed them without having to nerf how carriers are in PVP combat. Or reduce the amount of NPC bounties per ship class based on how much PVP happens in or around a region.
Granted, you still have to be careful how you do this because all your nerfs lately have been taking isk out of our hands to put RL money into yours.
Enough with being pigs.
#CCPigs |

Suitonia
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
881
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:16:06 -
[105] - Quote
Lightbringer wrote:April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke.
I do wonder if CCP even play their own game. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now., so now they do no damage before instantly dieing because of the previous nerf? :D RIP.
How do they go from overpowered to no damage if they lose 20% DPS. Seems reasonable to me.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
|

Echo Wolfman
DeadMan's Squad Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:16:09 -
[106] - Quote
Nerf miners, nerf ratters...Is it your goal to nerf all isk making to under 80m isk/hr? If you want people to only buy plex then just say that. The clickfest you made it WAS the income nerf. Maybe you should concentrate more on botters if you're worried about too much isk in the game.
PvEvCCP |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2901
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:16:34 -
[107] - Quote
Pier Rin wrote:Maybe if you would not have introduced skill injectors there would not have been a problem????
This is true. Everyone being able to train into Capital ships in a few months based on being able to crab it up and buy SP has contributed to this problem. It undermines the "Capital ships are a powerful end game goal" when a six month old character can skill into a good Carrier pilot. Of course, many players told CCP that skill injectors were a bad idea and they went for the money train anyway.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

Skorpion Medion
Fink Operations Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:17:07 -
[108] - Quote
i feel a disturbance in the force, as a thousand carebears cried out .
Keep up the good job CCP, Force PvP |

Malthuras
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:17:54 -
[109] - Quote
Yea lets make changes to supers and capitals that screw them in pvp situations because they generate TOO MUCH ISK rather than address other sources such as incursions, reduce bounties, increase rat HP, or anything like that.
Nah, lets just make all that crap worse in the game overall, including pvp because we **** ourselves at the last MER.
You really need to change whoever is doing this balancing crap and try again with new devs. |

Youshi Yohimoto
The Inebriated Bivalves Jamyl Syndicate
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:18:16 -
[110] - Quote
CCP you are literally punch of retards for doing this. GG on killing your own game. Stop whining about losses on player numbers after you behave like full on fuckin retards.
You punish people for spending years to get into caps or even in carrier and then when they finally have the shiny toy you come and say NO, you can't have fun and we wanna tell you that you just spent tremendous amount of time for fuckin bullshit. Eat **** CCP.
Been playing since 2006 and you just keep getting more ******** with changes and nerfs every year. |
|

Drak'Eisgvarde Crepari
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:19:19 -
[111] - Quote
Ridiculous. 100T change over the past year or so which is the norm for the past several years.
How about fixing the isk sinks instead? Things like market taxes took a hit with citadels.
Up the items bought from NPCs with isk, particularly cosmetic ones. New skins, a mix of LP and isk (or just isk). New clothes with isk.
Maybe change up t2 citadel rigs and give them less T2 salvage but some NPC sold items.
Have it cost isk to unlock additional jump clones, not just take a skill. 1000 isk for the first. 10b isk for the 10th.
Have additional bonus remaps that can be bought for isk. Maybe allow different clones with different remaps, for a substantial isk price.
Increase the array of hardwirings, particularly for slots 6-10. so many ways to drain isk. |

btOw Ragnarson
Lisnave Mordus Angels
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:20:21 -
[112] - Quote
Nice ccp you just keep people got mad and stop play nice job ccp, you just nerf all game, rorquals , t3 and now carriers and supers, maybe is time to sotp play this game of nerfs |

elise densi
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
66
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:21:13 -
[113] - Quote
Haw dread ratting here i come
next month dread nerf i gues? |

Fibro Optic
Engineering Evolutions Limited Badfellas Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:21:13 -
[114] - Quote
WTF !!! Carriers too strong in PVP ? To start off with With this new fighter system, 1 stupid T1 ecm frigate with no bonus mods can de-Fang a carrier by jamming out the fighters. If the fighter system was more like the old system, then id slightly agree, however I don't think they are overpowered in PVP at all |

Prometheus Hinken
Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers
29
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:23:31 -
[115] - Quote
Ralph Shepard wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions. Which means this is just an excuse from you.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9a_sinksfaucets.png
Bounties pay out nearly 7x more than Incursions do. Not to mention there's often a waitlist and you're dependent on other people's skills to run the sites faster. With nullsec ratting, especially in your (and mine) alliance there's a sea of blues, various intel channels, and third party apps like NEAR2 to keep you incredibly safe while you undock in a carrier or supercarrier and rat on your own time for hours and hours on end, with the ability to start and stop whenever you'd like.
|

Thea Yulivee
The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition
15
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:23:40 -
[116] - Quote
The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work.
Serious question because it seems really unintuitive to me - you have on the one hand, carriers and supers - ratting activities, that can be multiboxed very well because they require a high amount of involvement, as such leading to limited time that people will do this kind of ratting at a time, as it is tiring if you try to really up your income. On the other hand, there are VNIs and Ishtars, which are really easy to scale, easy to afk farm, easy to multibox which have virtually not limit apart from the time a player is willing to spend warping to the next site in time. Are you not just going for the higher per account numbers and completely disregarding the reality of income per player in this case? Because when it comes to the generation of ISK and ISK influx, going for the biggest per account values, really seems like an awfull choiceGǪespecially looking at what kind of ratting you see out in null most of the times. Feels like this change is way of the mark.
|

Meridon Arthas
Pain and pleasur Circle-Of-Two
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:23:44 -
[117] - Quote
Krypleria wrote:Meridon Arthas wrote:Krypleria wrote:OK CCP, let me get this straight ...
VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)
Seems balanced to me.
Do you guys even play this game ? =/
You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/
Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?
40M VNI ? Damn, Can u contract me some plz ? Full VNI fitted is 100M. and I did 18-20M tick I stand corrected, but I guess you got my point right ?
Yeah completly :) The conclusion for all of us is the same, CCP solution is not right. |

IIDjangoII
The Alpha and the Omega Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:25:34 -
[118] - Quote
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by isk faucet. Perhaps you mean that capsuleers getting isk for actively playing the game is not convoluted enough for us. It might be a better idea to first address the isk plugholes which seem totally out of your control.
The isk received by supers ratting ends up in the pockets of all capsuleers from top to bottom. By reducing isk input from the top end you are making everyone in eve poorer, while the cost of playing the game continues to rise. This is not good for any capsuleer, only good for ccp. So please do not sugar coat it for us as though this change is for our benefit, it clearly is not.
In the long run it probably will not benefit you either considering the general tone of my peers, I doubt they will be pulling out their wallets to fund their game time as a substitute to grinding isk for plex, nor will they be spending more time playing the game to grind that isk. |

Woodbine
We Are Down Syndrome Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:25:52 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
Heres a suggestion from someone that has played since 2003.... STOP mucking about with mechanics that aren't broken and fix stuff that is.... Why are you utterly making Rorquals pointless and now nerving Supers to the point you may as well just use a carrier... Do you actually play the game....
Muppets |

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
447
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:26:28 -
[120] - Quote
If the issue is that rewards are too easy, then nerfing something used in both PvP and PvE does not make a lot of sense. People will simply change to another ship that will give the damage output they desire for running sites.
Perhaps the problem is the availability of sites and the need to improve NPC responses to attack types. Maybe what you really need to do, instead of hurting a tool used for both PvP and PvE, is reduce the number of sites that spawn.
If you reduce the number of sites which spawn, even with max IHUB upgrades, you will help Sov Null Sec by creating more of a demand to expand territory which will create more PvP.
By reducing Fighter damage, you reduce the PvP capabilities of not just carriers and super carriers, but also of Citadels (and fighter support from citadels is laughably weak from my experience). By reducing the effectiveness of a tool used in more than just PvE, you miss fixing the target... which is to reduce an isk faucet.
So instead of reducing the effectiveness of fighters, why not reduce reduce the number of sites instead?
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
|
|

Rarilmar
Legends Unbound Greater D.U.S.K. Coalition
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:27:18 -
[121] - Quote
OMG you idiots!!! stop mentioning the Ishtar! they will nerf it too... (again actually lol) |

elise densi
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
67
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:27:41 -
[122] - Quote
CCP wants only to make mony from ppl paying subs it seems
ive played many games b4 where the devs turned into a wallet making buisness instead of a game
EVE is going the same way now .... |

nikander100 Blackburn
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Circle-Of-Two
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:28:18 -
[123] - Quote
Lucian James wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs
I myself just trained to get into a carrier so I don't have to rat 40+ hours a month just to play and that is most of my free time, yes I rat to play, why you may ask? I don't have the money nor the ability(for now) to make it in real life, I was getting into a carrier to lower the time and actually play the game do pvp and have fun with my friends. I think ccp should either make the rats smarter or change bounty payout per ship (If ship = carrier/super do= bounty payout -10%).
#CCPigs #CCPlease |

El'geherg
Insurrection Mercenary Coalition
43
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:29:37 -
[124] - Quote
Selling my ratting carrier about a week ago is looking pretty smart right now :smug:
On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the entire null PVE process got way out of hand so CCP is responding with ham-fisted responses like nerfing fighter damage and introducing a swing for the fences event like the Blood Raiders shipyard that only a tiny number of players interact with. I wonder how many of the non-Sanctum/Haven/Forsaken Hub anoms respawn day after month after year in high volume null ratting systems and never get used? I wonder how hard it would be to reduce the NPC bounties or increase their EHP if the problem is "ticks too high"? CCP created the situation where caps/supers are nearly ubiquitous compared to even a few years ago and now their only response is a pretty substantial nerf with almost no notice.
CCP better hope the new moon mining scheme is a conflict generator because otherwise it is going to be increasingly less attractive for players to log in to null and low sec. Outside of a few heavily trafficked areas it is incredible how many systems in low and null-sec are essentially empty all day and that is going to increase with this change. You might think "Good, serves the filthy carebears right!" but the fewer people logging in, the less opportunities there are for meaningful content. The disconnect with why most players log in and what CCP seems to think players want grows more pronounced every day. |

Morrigan Laima
Shooting Blues Everyday Gimme Da Loot
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:30:43 -
[125] - Quote
I don't see how carriers/supers are that much of a problem - you can't scale with them anymore. How does this even begin to compare with the pre-citadel levels of broken, where you had players AFK ratting with a dozen or more carriers across different anomalies?
The blocs are doing exactly what powerblocs do when they aren't fighting - they are building up a warchest as fast as humanly possible. And they'll keep doing exactly that, by whatever means they work out to be the best balance of time, effort, and ISK reward.
This isn't changing, because there's no reason to fight.
What I don't understand though, is why this nerf isn't aimed at something scalable? Even with my PLEX costs, I could still outpace a supercarrier ratting with smartbombing battleships in a single anom or with AFKtars. in multiple anoms. Why hurt the solo player?
And, why are other faucets, which offer higher reward and lower risk not being nerfed first?
|

C02
Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:30:47 -
[126] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:A year ago, we got the long awaited Capital ship changes which finally revitalized the class as a whole. It was obvious that Capital ships were going to be very powerful, both in PVP and PVE. You gave us powerful end game ships to work towards - something worth commitment to Eve. Roughly six months later you did the same thing with the Rorqual. Now, a year after these changes, when most players have finally begun to benefit from them, you reduce the ships back to roughly where they were before. Maybe that's a good thing in the long run, maybe it's not. Maybe it pisses off so many people who feel that you pulled another bait and switch with training. Maybe it makes Battleships great again. But this is a major change that affects way more than running anomalies. Nine months ago, it was clear that this game was headed to "Carriers online." Carriers were going to be the mainline DPS boats for PVE and PVP fleets. These training and resource intensive ships were going to be totally dominant. And that is what we have seen these past few months in many major battles. Massive numbers of Carriers supported by FAX replacing massive numbers of Battleships supported by Logistics. There has been an arms race these past few months to get massive numbers of people into Carrier and Supercapital fleets. That's why everyone has been ratting and mining until their eyes bleed these past few months, because you handed the keys to the game to resource and training intensive ships. The group with the most wins. Just as it is about to come to fruition for the late comers, you announce a massive and fundamental change to Capital ships. It would be nice if you could be more agile with your development, but it is hard to steer a Battleship (or Carrier  ). A small course correction here and there goes a long way. Obviously, this will have profound impacts across Eve, but it won't fix the underlying PVE problem, which is that resources never deplete, no matter how relentlessly you farm. I could run a thousand anomalies and the Blood Raiders would never bat an eye. They never send different ships, they never escalate, they never stop flying right into my guns. If I run Incursions, the Sanshas would basically do the same thing, but at least they move on to a different part of Eve every few days. Maybe you need to fundamentally rethink resource generation in Eve? Get rid of the unlimited local ratting opportunities. Maybe people who log in to find that there are no rats to kill will simply log out again. Or maybe they will do something else and make Eve more interesting. If you pursue this, however, it has to be across the board. Everything has to be finite or people will just shift to continuous PVE in another part of space. Yes, that means the Damsel can only be rescued from Dodixie so many times a day... Across the board, ISK-generating PVE should be more like wormhole space or Incursions. PVE content eventually depletes. Out of things to do locally? Leave home and go kill some dudes or crab it up some place new.
this. i wish my brain was able to make this come out
|

Acia Saraki
Core Industry. Blades of Grass
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:31:41 -
[127] - Quote
I think CCP don't play their game
If i can't PLEX my account, it's over for me |

Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:32:00 -
[128] - Quote
Rather than nerfing fighter damage, why not fix the sites themselves. Add acceleration gates/A N other kind of preventable warp function to to the anomolies preventing carriers/super carrier from entering them. Limit havens/sanctums to Battleship size hulls and move down the list. Reduce the bounties somewhat. This will slow down the influx of isk into the economy.
Give null sec something worth wanting to fight over maybe.
Implementing the Blood Raider NPC sites to a certain region giving more content to be farmed, making one of if not the richest alliances even richer yet with nothing to spend that isk on as theres no wars going on. Why are there no wars going on? FozzieSov = not much fun.
Nerfing something in pvp just because its used for farming pve content makes little if no sense......well to me at least, but then again, I am just one of your players what do i know. |

Bron Ander Haltern
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:33:47 -
[129] - Quote
Hopefully that change will be as much painfull for you as for us CCP . You slowly shoot down all goals for casual players in the game shame and really sad you make wow out of eve . |

Atlan Dallocort
Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots
84
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:35:32 -
[130] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Lightbringer wrote:April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke.
I do wonder if CCP even play their own game. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now., so now they do no damage before instantly dieing because of the previous nerf? :D RIP. How do they go from overpowered to no damage if they lose 20% DPS. Seems reasonable to me.
You should maybe collect some large scale capital experience. Carrier fleet pvp it the game of fighters. And fighters are very easy to kill since the last signature nerf. An AHAC fleet works like a bunch of 8,8cm Flaks. They murder wave after wave.
-> No fighters, no damage. |
|

Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:36:49 -
[131] - Quote
While i totally agree with the above points about isk faucets, and how it dangers the economy. I can't help but feel CCP is doing symptom bandages, instead of actually inventing a cure to the problem.
You guys always seem to fix something that's broken, by changing some numbers. Which more often than not is a symptom of broken or bad mechanics. Often it's included with a message of "we'll get back to that later" - Or making an excuse about how it's dangering the new eden world. This without addressing the real issue.
And this is a very good example.
You got a system that benefits directly from pouring more damage into it. It scales so well, that the output is directly connected with the input you put into it.. If you decide to play with others, you're taking a hit. And reducing your potential output, despite the fact that you perform on the same level, as if you played solo.
Not only does this change reduce the damage you do in PvE, it also interferes with your output in PvP. How does that even make sense?
And this brings forth my question; Why not look at the issue itself? - The anomaly's and how the mechanics with that system works?
|

Solidus Obscura
Nasty-Boyz Ghost Legion.
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:04 -
[132] - Quote
Quote:As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.
You don't specify whether this is from Carrier ratting versus VNI/Ishtar ratting.
Consider the following:
- Carrier ratting is an extremely focus intensive activity, especially after the nerfs to fighter sig radius. You cannot effectively multibox carriers.
- VNI/Ishtar ratting is the exact opposite. You warp to site, drop drones, orbit whatever, and in a period of time, the site is clear. This lends itself to 23/7 passive ratting and easy multiboxing.
I am struggling to understand why you are nerfing carriers for this reason. If it's really a PVP nerf, then say it's a PVP nerf. Don't beat around the bush with what we all perceive as fake news. And if it is true that carriers are the problem- give us some numbers. A breakdown of NPC bounty income from VNIs/Ishtars versus Carriers. And if it's skewed as you're implying, then you'll have a lot more support.
Additionally, carrier ratting generates some of the highest ISK/hr for people that don't significantly multibox. If you nerf this hard then those folks would move to less riskier Incursions in HighSec. This would be extremely bad for the game.
Solidus for CSM!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=512158&find=unread
|

Foff
Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:34 -
[133] - Quote
This is mu 1st post on forum for some game... This shuld be game place where you come for some fun, but I dont know why DEV's do all to ruin it. You DEV's(CCP) can say "May Monthly Economy report" but that is just suck. Why suck? Do you know how much time/isk some player need to get in Carrier/Super? let's say some player order Super for 16b, and he need to fit him for like more 7b and he need 17days to produce Super and then, at all that he need to risk ship ~23b isk for just 90m isk per 20 mins of kiling rats... That ship can be kiled by 20's t3 players(T3 whit total 10b whit fit) in less then 5mins, but there will be 50+ players to kill him and gess what, in 3mins 50-80 Caracals(50m ship whit fit) can kill Super which one you plan to nerf instad to buff.
Why you did not count on it devils CCP?
Whit all your changes untild now and this new what you plan Supers\Carriers will become crap for PvP and crap for PvE.Then lets rat in Titans..Even if you plan to change game mechanic give players more time like 6months or so.
I was start to play EvE in H sec, and there I need 3months for mu 1st plex, and I love EvE cose it's game on long plan run, it's hard game, but this change what you plan to do it's just ruin your own child your EvE and us EvE.
When I look on this http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/1_regional.stats.png I gess you have problem whit best organized alliance in game, and i gess it's CCP vs GOONS patch
And after all I must to say it's look like you dont love your players, ppl which hold this game , hold your child. If you do this big nerff at the and you shuld reduce cost of Carrier(53%) / Supers(60%) and fighters(for 80%)
I hope someone from CCP read. Best Regards to all |

Darine Artwik
Loleroler Capital Distribution
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:35 -
[134] - Quote
Guess what? Multiboxing SB Battleships? No Nerf! Multiboxing VNIs/Ishtars? No Nerf! Multiboxing Rorquals? Just +1 Soloing Carriers/Supers? Nerfed to death. Soloing Rorquals? Nerfed to death.
CCP certainly NOT following a special agenda there. Multiboxing and therefore more sub money for CCP not favored at all. |

spacedemolisher
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:37:38 -
[135] - Quote
Oh well guess its time to sell the carriers and super, looks like this is dread online now, love it how all the CSM are just sucking face to CCP, guess they get chosen for no brains, i wish actually voting made a difference, not just oh look I'm in a big alliance u must all vote for me...yaywin.
Like seriously tho you already made it so subcaps can smash supers, like whats the point in having the long train when u just get murdered by sub caps so easily, if ur going to nerf the damage, at least make it so the aidsy jamming is actually fightable.... like is it hard to bring in a module that increases their strength...... wish CCP wasn't so into nerfing atm like do something new.... |

Melons Trader
Unbeknowns2U
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:38:08 -
[136] - Quote
Want to stop carriers getting dank ticks. easy give all ratting anoms acceleration gates with ship restrictions the carrier it self dose not need a nerf. |

Ezio Sotken
nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:38:39 -
[137] - Quote
I used to run incursions as my primary income source until I bought a carrier for pvp. Now a carrier, already the worst PVP cap ship ( remembers old slowcat days fondly now) will also be worse at ratting to support my ever growing cap ships. A carrier to rat in has allowed me to buy more than one cap. Now I have a dread, fax, and a carrier.
All what I see in these changes, rorq's, faction BS's, now carriers is a systematic effort to hurt the regular null sec PVPer and give yet more isk to the stupid rich while at the same time trying to turn EVE into a free to play game at the level of WoT or Clash of Clans.
I hope it does not get to that point, but sadly looks more and more likely every time I see a post like this one. |

Ender Ambrye
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:38:50 -
[138] - Quote
I have been training for carriers on three characters (mainly for PVP) - I have bought injectors, I have reallocated skills buying extractors - in short I have spent a fortune with you, for yet another product that does not reach me as advertised...just like T3s, the Ishtar, etc etc...I pick a high tier ship, train for months at great expense, and then you guys come and nerf bat them into uselessness. Its really s**t practice guys.
Fighters V is two months FFS!! Thats -ú20 x 3 you have just devalued significantly - how is that fair? I really think that these nerfs, of high tier, high SP items should come at a cost, to you, the supplier...give us SP, or a sweetener, anything to ease the dismay at you diluting our subscription again and again. |

C02
Ninth Circle Federation Solyaris Chtonium
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:39:06 -
[139] - Quote
I dont know why I just remembered that Capitals have a 1000% modifier to entosis or somethign like that. Why not just tack on a -80% to pirate bounty payouts on the hull's role and be done rather than mess with a combat ship's combat capability? |

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:39:44 -
[140] - Quote
I guess the formula >
%moreplayers = %morecontent = %morefun = %biggerplayerbase = %moreCCPincome is a mistery ....
CCP just decided
%lessplayers = %lesscontent = %lessfun = %smallerplayerbase = %lessCCPincome
Good job to the guy that thought of this.... |
|

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
127
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:40:05 -
[141] - Quote
CCP;
If you wanted to keep carriers as PVP ships, why not make all combat sites static deadspace? That way capitals are not allowed into them. There are many spawnable combat sites that are deadspace locked anyway, why not make them all? You still need to unlock the higher amount of anomolies in the higher security class systems with the sov upgrades, but making them static deadspace and put them on a respawn timer.
(Mostly) everyone is happy. Carriers are still powerful pvp machines, but with their inherent weakness to ECM, the "problem" of nullsec isk faucet is turned off, and you haven't nerfed a ship into oblivion.
It's still crappy for everyone, but everyone still has something, and a little bit of dignity.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4096
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:40:42 -
[142] - Quote
oh dear, people wont be able to plex accounts, such unfair, many grrrs
Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
Calm down miner.
As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they
would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
|

Ranik Sandaris
El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:41:22 -
[143] - Quote
I dont even use carriers. But **** you CCP. Seriously. |

Kromarx
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:44:10 -
[144] - Quote
after all the rl money being spent on injectors to skill up to carriers, you guys missing the cash stream? |

Brown Pathfinder
Its a good day to die
18
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:44:34 -
[145] - Quote
Lucian James wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs
Isn't one of the big issues with the economy in the game that there are no big wars or any major action going on in null atm? |

August - Breeze
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:44:37 -
[146] - Quote
I am canceling my second account as soon as this month is over. (note: I have never PVE with my carrier) No need to have an account just for my cap pilot as they will not be used very much anymore. I will just transfer it to my main account.
If PVE was a problem they should of just nerfed PVE and not the PVP side.
I guarantee that this move has cost CCP at least one of my accounts. |

lorddlo25
DAB Mordus Angels
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:45:10 -
[147] - Quote
the real issue I have found is the skill injectors you have so many players with so many accounts that thay just need buy skill injectors to skill up there chars and get it in to a super now times that by 5k players if that and there is your isk Faucet right there.
so get rid of skill injectors and skill extractors so ppl can not get in to those ship's so easily and make the isk like it has been doing.
that is the only issue and no matter what you do or what you nerf it will not change the fact that a new account can be made and get in to a faction titan and faction fit max skilled with in minutes. |

Millpucky
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:45:57 -
[148] - Quote
Pier Rin wrote:Maybe if you would not have introduced skill injectors there would not have been a problem????
Less carrier/super pilot, less rorqs, no need for nerfs????
And with every nerf/fix, 2 more problems pop up, please dont fix whats not broken.
Finally someone has said what should have never been implemented in game |

HuntedMaster
HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:46:10 -
[149] - Quote
Oh Dear,
I would normally never bother to post on here, But the current direction of CCP is alarming.
Changes to Plex, Changes to Rorquals ( don't like mining , don't care , but bad nerfs none the less) Changes to T3's , Changes to Pirate BS Bp drops, Changes to Carriers and Supers.... ( also don't say its anything to do with pvp, I have shiney caps, if they have fighters after your last crop of nerfs they are barely worth using in pvp in most cases)
You are not hiding your money grab very well CCP, is it time to cash out?
Put your nerf bat away, and let us get on with enjoying the game, I would like to think you would not think your customers to be blind to the obvious direction you are heading,
Economists my arse, your wallet has become the concern, not ours. |

Jarnobi
The Collective Northern Coalition.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:46:28 -
[150] - Quote
ALL THOSE GOON TEARS !!!!
GREAT CHANGE !!!!!! |
|

elise densi
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
67
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:47:05 -
[151] - Quote
remove the damn poison called skill injectors and ur market will fix itself ! |

Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad Rote Kapelle
66
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:48:23 -
[152] - Quote
Why not just make fighters ineffective against NPC and player subcaps? Seems like that would solve both the problem of carriers being used to over farm anoms and them being dropped on roaming gangs and solo pilots just because they cant be countered by those gangs effectively.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
King of Stating the Obvious 2015
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Elected by: Random forum alt
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|

Colonel Carter
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:48:37 -
[153] - Quote
I never flown carriers but this looks like a super hardcore kitchen sink nerf to fighter abilities. Maybe make it 10% nerf instead to soften the blow?
|

aussieftw
Marvinovi pratele Circle-Of-Two
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:48:43 -
[154] - Quote
CCP you just making people angry, but this will not help. Your real problems are jump fatigue, fozziesov and skill injectors. Just think for few seconds about that, why you have too much isks in game and too many people with capital ships. |

Jin Booster
Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:49:02 -
[155] - Quote
hahah funny i am done with this game |

Chance Ambramotte
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:05 -
[156] - Quote
This is not a balancing adjustment. This is part of several changes that all lead to one thing: A cash grab by CCP.
The PLEX has been split into the 500 units for 1 month new dynamic. The PLEX has also replaced AURUM. Training times are extensive and the only way to get some of these skills in a timely fashion is skill injectors or ghost train. Now we nerf the primary in game cash generators into irrelevance.
All this means is if you want to have an effective pilot, buy PLEX, if you want to have time to work, shower, live and still have progress in the game buy PLEX. And so on, slowly every problem is starting to have the same solution: buy PLEX.
Soon this game will be pay to win (Buy PLEX)
This is all part of the EA Games micro transaction cancer where fun, gameplay or entertainment are all trampled in the attempt to drain the wallets of the players as fast as possible.
For the record I have only on account, and no capitol ships and do not mine.
We will see if greed will continue to reign at CCP or if they want to continue to have a game business in the near future. |

Racken Ormand
Something Something Darkside. Circle-Of-Two
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:09 -
[157] - Quote
Shock.
i have read many of the replies and many make perfect sense. Instead of nerfing a carrier on it's PVE capabilities why don't you just decrease bounty payouts. Carriers are valuable assets to their owners and using them is highly risky and if you get caught in one ratting consider yourself dead 90% of the time. Now you are making them less valuable.
Good to see that CCP is going out of it's way lately to displease so many of us who have spent hundreds if not thousands over the years on memberships to play this game in which we have invested so many hours into. |

Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:19 -
[158] - Quote
And what happened to garnering player feedback to gauge ideas before implementing changes or is that a thing of the past? Telling people less than a week before said changes are going to happen smacks of poor customer relations. |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:25 -
[159] - Quote
Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! !
You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue.
You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis!
You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell.
You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content.
And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting?????????
The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME!
Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play. |

Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
12
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:50:58 -
[160] - Quote
aussieftw wrote:CCP you just making people angry, but this will not help. Your real problems are jump fatigue, fozziesov and skill injectors. Just think for few seconds about that, why you have too much isks in game and too many people with capital ships.
You forgot citadels. |
|

aussieftw
Marvinovi pratele Circle-Of-Two
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:51:51 -
[161] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! !
You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue.
You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis!
You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell.
You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content.
And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting?????????
The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME!
Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play. Exactly. |

Mary Timeshift Jane
Perkone Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:51:57 -
[162] - Quote
Dear space friends,
Due to this upcoming fighter nerf, I'd like to share with you not often known or spoken ways of PVE null isk making. I wish you spread this message to all corners of Eveverse for everyone should no longer scramble for isk and live poor!
************************************************************************************** Step.1 - Make a new toon (if you don't have one) Step.2 - Upgrade it to Omega Step.3 - Buy 1 Injector (is enough) and skill up for either Vexor Navy Issue or Rattlesnake and required mods (use factions or DED, must be CAP stable!) Step.4 - Fly them into the advanced 7/10 or 8/10 sites, VNI will be speed tanking (orbiting an object - a wreck or can), Rattle can sit still. Step.5 - release drones and walk afk or do something else on your PC. Step.6 - come back after 30-45 minutes when site is done, warp to the next site and repeat from Step.4
This method is relatively safe, npcs of 7/10 and 8/10 will not break your tank and you do not risk Dreadnaught spawning on you while you're AFK. Ticks between 12-15mil, sit them in sites all day with minimum attendance and for maximum convenience!
For absolute AFKers (who don't attend their computers at all) - to prevent getting you killed by passers-by or gangs, have an active player in the system be your squad leader able to warp you off (cause that's what friends are for) should the danger be heading your way (do not mind lost drones). Because unlike us, Supercarrier ratters, who have to micromanage our supers, actively mash buttons of our keyboard and mouse every second we're out there ratting, you don't!
Collect over 250+mil each day per toon and enjoy - you are all soon to be billionaires! **************************************************************************************
I, sincerely, hope this message reaches as many capsuleers as possible, that you all become rich without having to play the game of preposterous nerfs against SUPERactive players and that you all will finally be able to afford all your dreams effortlessly.
Share this with every newbie and every Alpha, help your fellow capsuleers get into awesome ways of iskmaking in AFK VNIs and Rattles today and rip that monthly economic report that CCP can... whatever.
Enjoy. Peace out .\/
|

Wilfred Motte
Shadow Proclamation 15
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:52:11 -
[163] - Quote
Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates.
Well played, CCP. Well. Played. |

Linda Bradford Raschke
LBR Group
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:52:50 -
[164] - Quote
The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work.
BS. I think everyone here knows you only support this because the big bad supers kicked your sand castle over. |

Anthar Thebess
1701
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:03 -
[165] - Quote
Wilfred Motte wrote:Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates.
Well played, CCP. Well. Played. Charge back
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|

Tiesto DJ
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:15 -
[166] - Quote
Chance Ambramotte wrote:This is not a balancing adjustment. This is part of several changes that all lead to one thing: A cash grab by CCP.
The PLEX has been split into the 500 units for 1 month new dynamic. The PLEX has also replaced AURUM. Training times are extensive and the only way to get some of these skills in a timely fashion is skill injectors or ghost train. Now we nerf the primary in game cash generators into irrelevance.
All this means is if you want to have an effective pilot, buy PLEX, if you want to have time to work, shower, live and still have progress in the game buy PLEX. And so on, slowly every problem is starting to have the same solution: buy PLEX.
Soon this game will be pay to win (Buy PLEX)
This is all part of the EA Games micro transaction cancer where fun, gameplay or entertainment are all trampled in the attempt to drain the wallets of the players as fast as possible.
For the record I have only on account, and no capitol ships and do not mine.
We will see if greed will continue to reign at CCP or if they want to continue to have a game business in the near future.
Here is a catch 22. In order to sell PLEX people need isk to buy PLEX. If they reduce ISK faucets, they reduce the isk being generated for PLEX and to this degree injectors.
Taking a dump on isk faucets and forgetting to flush will eventually stagnate the PLEX market as ISK will become tied to a few accounts. It will also reduce the amount of people buying them. |

Killah Bee
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:18 -
[167] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Great changes
Yo Mr. Kestrel the cookies are to shut up when the cakes are talking okay ? Thanks |

Takashi X2
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:30 -
[168] - Quote
I tried to read most of the responses but one thing never came up. This change renders regular carriers unable to run dreads. I do feel like the carriers have a lot of dps and maybe needed to be scaled back a bit but not 20 percent. I think that is a little drastic. As of right now I barely have enough dps with t2 fighters to run a dread and i have to pull them back once sometimes twice to reload on missiles to do it. With 20% gone im not sure I can actually beat the reps anymore.
My suggestion is lower the amount of armor while upping the amount of hull. This will still make you need a significant amount of dps which the carrier can do in bursts without rendering them completely unable to. Supers will still be complete overkill like before so it doesnt make any difference there one way or another. |

addelee
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
103
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:47 -
[169] - Quote
So, rorq's get nerfed as they're an isk facet and now fighters. This will reduce the amount of isk ingame and also push prices of things up making plex suddenly an attractive option. I get why CCP are doing it, they want more money, but it'll push people away thus leading to them having less money.
I suspect, given a choice, CCP would leave us with 1 ship so it's a level playing field and they'd probably still have to rebalance that!
|

Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk.
92
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:54:52 -
[170] - Quote
I find this rather unnessesary.
Carrier-Ratting was an efficient ratting-method for ppl with only a single character that at least let them compensate for their lack of multiboxing somewhat. (carrier-ratting is too much micromanagement to multibox, but very efficient with a single character)
Super-carrier-ratting is even forbidden in a lot of regions, because their alliances don't think its a good idea. And if you risk your permaclick 30bil isk slowpoke u better make some more isk than 2 navy vexors.
1. Carrier-Ratting is completly compensated by the inability to multibox 2. supercarrier-ratting is compensated by the inability to multibox and the risk of losing the ship
The only problem I see here is if your supercarrier is absolutely 100% safe because of your alliances backup, as that pushes supercarriers over the top. I think a better solution to this problem would be the following:
Prevent Supercarriers from fitting Cynos. This way if one gets attked the other 30 cant just jump to it, making it impossible to kill. That should be enough balance for super-ratting. Carrier-ratting is in a good place for reasons stated above.
About myself: I have a ratting-carrier but I don't use it, because its not efficient for me isk/h. I would like to rat in a super but it's not allowed in my region and god damn risky without backup. That means your proposed nerf will actually help me, as it nerfs income of my competitors but in no way nerfs multiboxing income like mining with 20 rorquals (:
|
|

Lucian James
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
175
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:04 -
[171] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! !
You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue.
You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis!
You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell.
You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content.
And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting?????????
The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME!
Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play.
#CCPigs |

Pesadel0
Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc.
130
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:14 -
[172] - Quote
So you nerfing carriers and supers ability to make money in PVE nuking them in PVP also , why not nerf the damage they do only to NPC?
I mean god forbid you actually ADD PVE content to nullsec , and i hope you nerf incursions and WH income . |

Cpt Makanen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:18 -
[173] - Quote
There is a simple Solution for all These Problems...
Just fire all the eve devs and "Designers" we better call them destroyer. Reset the Servers and hire devs which Listen to the Little playerbase we got.
I hate to read all this we are the devs we def. Know what you want ****. If any of the devs would know it than we wouldnt See such changes right now. |

Ranik Sandaris
El Ultimo Hombre Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:55:44 -
[174] - Quote
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Dont those numbers over 5 years worry you CCP? |

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4096
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:56:24 -
[175] - Quote
Wilfred Motte wrote:Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates.
Well played, CCP. Well. Played.
that sounds totally ********, you can now extract and get your isk back to buy a million frigates
Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
Calm down miner.
As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they
would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
|

Guillejejeje XDD
What The FAX
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:56:45 -
[176] - Quote
why dont you nerf citadels? is ridiculous in all aspects |

Decres Estidal
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:57:49 -
[177] - Quote
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:Why not just make fighters ineffective against NPC and player subcaps? Seems like that would solve both the problem of carriers being used to over farm anoms and them being dropped on roaming gangs and solo pilots just because they cant be countered by those gangs effectively.
Carriers are anti-subcap platforms, they do **** all do caps. And if you can't lock and kill that carriers fighters that is solo dropping you you have no right to complain after the last nerf they are poss easy to kill now they do 20% less damage. |

alex tow
Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:57:49 -
[178] - Quote
It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. |

Aria Blackmoon
Closer to the Clouds
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:58:49 -
[179] - Quote
Killah Bee wrote:Suitonia wrote:Great changes Yo Mr. Kestrel the cookies are to shut up when the cakes are talking okay ? Thanks
I give Killah right |

Danny Woo
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:59:04 -
[180] - Quote
those nubmers are insane, so much wasted RL time and money and u do this? Give me one good reason to not end this while i can... |
|

Trevor2014 Gunson
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time Solyaris Chtonium
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:59:24 -
[181] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
Yes, cause carrier and super carrier drones are the real problem here.
Yes, cause HS Incursions aren't an isk sink whatsoever (coming from someone who ran them 8 hours a day) and Ratting in anoms for ONE MONTH because there's really no content anymore breaks the system. 
Yes, cause AKFtar's are "Working as Intended". 
Yes, cause AFK VNI's for low-skilled afkers are a thing.
yes, cause CCP made it possible to become a super pilot in 5 minutes. 
Yes, cause SOV is apparently great as you have to sit in one place for 5 minutes with your D*** out cause that's why you play a game? 
Yes, cause RISK Vs. REWARD isn't a thing anymore and I should fly a Hel that gets a 30M tick when i can fly a VNI or Isthar getting the same ticks and go to the store for some cookies and milk and make half the cost of my ship back on a Gamble chance no one enters my system? 
Yes, cause end-game isn't broken af now due to getting nerf hammers constantly.
I think you need to re-evaluate what are "isk sinks" within the game. here's what you should fix:
Fozzie SOV was the worst idea you ever came up with, it destroyed content generated. Get rid of it or get rid of your highly prized citadels. having both at the same time is not letting anyone take SOV just for the lol's.
Small citadels get shorter rf time periods. big citadels get longer time periods. (kinda a duhh realization there) 
Make HS incursion rats harder to kill. (incorporate your new all-mighty NPC Player Mirror abilities or whatever you call it into HS Isk sinks, GET RID OF THE NO RISK FOR UNLIMITED REWARD BULLS*** THAT IS HS INCURSIONS).
Get rid of the Entosis BS.... wait, did I already mention that?
Lower the Bounty payouts of rats everywhere in every region (that would surely drop the Isk Sink that apparently is in NS cause we can't do anything with no major wars going on)
Make NPC rats tougher everywhere (and double their HP for HS incursions cause they are carebears and need to work for their isk just like everyone else)
one last thing before i finish my rant and 2nd forum post ever cause i don't like doing this stuff
Listen to your community and ACTUALLY read these forum posts, it's literally the same things over and over and over.... DO something about it. Isn't that why we have CSM's or whatever they are called, don't really know their names cause I hardly ever hear them doing anything for the community. Stop bringing in new items, and go back over the stuff already here and fix it, NOT NERF IT, upgrade it. delete this, delete that, then... then you can start working on new things.
|

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:59:43 -
[182] - Quote
addelee wrote:So, rorq's get nerfed as they're an isk facet and now fighters. This will reduce the amount of isk ingame and also push prices of things up making plex suddenly an attractive option. I get why CCP are doing it, they want more money, but it'll push people away thus leading to them having less money.
The changes seem rather drastic so I guess we'll see another rebalance when they're run out of things to nerf.
I suspect, given a choice, CCP would leave us with 1 ship so it's a level playing field and they'd probably still have to rebalance that!
And don't forget, everyone gets a shiny new participation trophy. |

Chance Ambramotte
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:00:10 -
[183] - Quote
here is a more positive direction to handle the inflation issues present in Eve:
Extra Credits: MMO economies |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:02 -
[184] - Quote
alex tow wrote:It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again.
LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right? |

Pier Rin
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:07 -
[185] - Quote
Jarnobi wrote:ALL THOSE GOON TEARS !!!!
GREAT CHANGE !!!!!!
you really think this will hurt goons???? and no 1 else..... you are naive |

Hikkata
Sequent Industry Red Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:07 -
[186] - Quote
Ok, if u want to nerf carriers and supers, then nerf hi-sec and low-sec incursions with ratting in wh pls. |

WheelsUK
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:14 -
[187] - Quote
I feel that CCP have forgotten this is just a game and are trying to turn it into a 2nd job for us.
It's also clear that CCP never thought passed 10 years for this game and a huge percentage of the player base will be carrier/super pilots and ratting in them reduces the grind time for most of us so why would we choose to rat in anything smaller we have also surley earned the right to be able to do this after so many years.
Then they introduce Skill Injectors meaning more and more people got into the end game ships faster, so why are they punishing us for them wanting to make a quick dollar and not thinking of the long term problems it causes.
Also i think all the Jita/Goon scammers are bowing to CCP right now, how many people how spent hard earned isk or real life money on skill injectors for the prize at the end to be taken away.
Scam of all Scams.
I have been playing EvE for over 11 years and never felt more like wanting to quit than i do now. i only hope that we do a massive burn EvE protest in Goons.
|

Millpucky
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:01:54 -
[188] - Quote
Wilfred Motte wrote:Exactly 2 weeks, to the day, after I dropped $200 to inject myself into a carrier, so that I could rat in NS, to make isk, to buy frigates to go shoot other people in frigates.
Well played, CCP. Well. Played.
2 weeks? WOW! see skill injectors need to go away. Took me YEARS to get into a Capital class ship. |

ShadowBill
Federation of Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:02:28 -
[189] - Quote
Several posts back - I think whoever said it, nailed it. CCP used the phrase 'sustainable'. This seems to me that ratting was ISK profitable enough to cover PLEX, and that means fewer subs. This certainly seems like a money grab. |

phantom blackstar
Steel Fury. Triumvirate.
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:02:43 -
[190] - Quote
I haven't played world of warcraft in a while....... only need 1 account and wont have to buy plex. |
|

Millpucky
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:02:55 -
[191] - Quote
WheelsUK wrote:I feel that CCP have forgotten this is just a game and are trying to turn it into a 2nd job for us.
It's also clear that CCP never thought passed 10 years for this game and a huge percentage of the player base will be carrier/super pilots and ratting in them reduces the grind time for most of us so why would we choose to rat in anything smaller we have also surley earned the right to be able to do this after so many years.
Then they introduce Skill Injectors meaning more and more people got into the end game ships faster, so why are they punishing us for them wanting to make a quick dollar and not thinking of the long term problems it causes.
Also i think all the Jita/Goon scammers are bowing to CCP right now, how many people how spent hard earned isk or real life money on skill injectors for the prize at the end to be taken away.
Scam of all Scams.
I have been playing EvE for over 11 years and never felt more like wanting to quit than i do now. i only hope that we do a massive burn EvE protest in Goons.
Here here brother |

elise densi
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:04:44 -
[192] - Quote
Rip eve 2003 - 2017 |

alex tow
Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:05:36 -
[193] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:alex tow wrote:It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right?
Of course it does....why do you think I would forget this ? I hate the plex price which encourage to buy some to get isk, I hate skill extractors and injectors and I HATE the capital ship becoming standard ships. |

O2 jayjay
Usque Ad Mortem Solyaris Chtonium
60
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:05:59 -
[194] - Quote
Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. |

Peyton Achibolt
Peyton Achibolt Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:06:39 -
[195] - Quote
What exactly will a nerf that high to fighterdamage solve? No one can tell me, that a capital ship, thats too work-intense to use while ratting - and therefore deserves the bounty earned, due to its price and high amount of activity need - needs roughly 20% less damage.
Let-¦s face it. What CCP really is trying here, is ending the game with as much moneygrab as possible.
Playerbase has been shrinking further and further for quite a while now. So to - at least - milk the cow as much as possible, CCP brought up injectors. What they do now, is handing us candy, to inject into. Then taking that candy away, rubbing their balls with it, and handing it back, so we extract out of it.
What i-¦ve seen over the last months of repeated nerfs to about everything nullsecbased cant lead to another conclusion. At least for me.
There is no "risk = reward" anymore. Just as there isnt "CCP doesnt interfere with economy" or anything like that.
There just is "shove as much $ into our hands before we shut the server".
Really, if you WANT to stop the game after all that years, just SAY it, and stop that whole bullshit you-¦re developing right now. |

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
759
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:07:19 -
[196] - Quote
Lightbringer wrote:Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell?
Yesterday people complained the Battleship nerf would make Carriers the default king of the meta. Now CCP is dealing with Carriers and people want to cry?
My assumption is they are pushing towards T1 battleships
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
|

Inquisitor Lucious
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:07:39 -
[197] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move.
those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too |

Parovozkin Lasombros
Rezeda Core Rezeda Regnum
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:07:47 -
[198] - Quote
-Ü-¦-¦-+-¦-ì-¦ -¦-ï ******, -Å 10 -+-Å-+-+-¦ -ü-+ -¦-+-+-+ -+-+-è-¦-¦-é-+-Ç-¦-+-+ -+-¦ -¦-¦-Ç-â, -¦-+ -¦-ü-¦-+ -ü-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-+-ï-¦-¦-Å..-¦ -é-â-é -+-¦ -+-Ç-+-ê-+-+ -+ -+-¦-ü-Å-å-¦ -¦-¦-¦ -é-¦-¦-+-¦ -¦-+-¦-+-¦ -+-¦-Ç-ä, -ü-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+ -¦-¦-+. |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:08:09 -
[199] - Quote
alex tow wrote:Total Newbie wrote:alex tow wrote:It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right? Of course it does....why do you think I would forget this ? I hate the plex price which encourage to buy some to get isk, I hate skill extractors and injectors and I HATE the capital ship becoming standard ships.
You obviously dont fly one. If/when you do, don't expect to use it for it's main purpose (Battle), because the Aids/Time required to get to a fight isn't worth it. You can hop into your trusty Interceptor and play Frigates online with the rest of the folks |

Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:08:30 -
[200] - Quote
Thank goodness that reddit users let people know that the all the skills queues on their paid accounts were broken because CCP didn't have time to communicate with their paying customers while they were preparing this post!
Sadly, whilst many of you are raising valid points, suggestions and observations, I hope that you don't expect CCP to listen to you. If they had wanted to do that (and judging by things lately, they do not) then they wouldn't had popped this change into the rorqual nerfs patch with just 4 days notice.
Just as well that most people are busy in game restarting their skill queues which is potentially a better use of their time than making decent suggestions in this thread, because it's just as likely that they'd listen to my suggestion and delete Delve rather than actually fixing the real issues with the game and it's long term health.
|
|

Grella Khurelem
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:08:52 -
[201] - Quote
Takashi X2 wrote:I tried to read most of the responses but one thing never came up. This change renders regular carriers unable to run dreads. I do feel like the carriers have a lot of dps and maybe needed to be scaled back a bit but not 20 percent. I think that is a little drastic. As of right now I barely have enough dps with t2 fighters to run a dread and i have to pull them back once sometimes twice to reload on missiles to do it. With 20% gone im not sure I can actually beat the reps anymore.
My suggestion is lower the amount of armor while upping the amount of hull. This will still make you need a significant amount of dps which the carrier can do in bursts without rendering them completely unable to. Supers will still be complete overkill like before so it doesnt make any difference there one way or another.
Interesting point. Are Havens now unrunnable except with supers? Dreads can oneshot Ishtars. With the increased aggro to fighters and less damage, a carrier with T1s will lose more in fighters than they can make in bounties to be able to run any anoms and carriers with T2s won't be able to do enough damage to complete one. |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:09:10 -
[202] - Quote
Inquisitor Lucious wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too
And please don't forget, that shortly after this death nail, a new series of skins will appear.
|

Trevize Demerzel
93
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:09:33 -
[203] - Quote
Wow
I have nothing nice to say that would follow the forum rules.
I unsubbing 9 accounts when I get home from work. I shall find another game to play that the developers aren't hell bent on ruining.
-
|

Heleana Commodus Luyseyal
Old Town Blades of Grass
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:10:14 -
[204] - Quote
"Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players."
Yeah those players that were skilling up towards it, for years, other thing is you cant multi box carriers in PvE, and you are limited to 200 mills/h with all skills on 5 etc, so exponential growth is not possible, and icome is locked to that number. Rorquals on the other hand can do same amount of isk/h but no need to micro anything, so you can run 20+ rorqual accounts with not much issues. So what are we talking about over here?
"We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP."
Can somebody tell CPP that in fleet engagements combat carriers role is basically Neuts and anti-fighter fighters, and DPS have nothing to do with it.You have dreads, for the price of 1 carrier you have more DPS than a Supercarrier. The one may ask himself why to even undock 30 bill ship, which took 2 years to skill up.
Can CCP actually hire some professional for these things, all this looks like its being done by over payed amateurs who don't know much about the game they are working on, nor they can code good. |

Dan Jintao
What Could Go Wrong DARKNESS.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:10:35 -
[205] - Quote
So this is a bad change, and here's why:
1) You have made a change to a ship based on it's (admittedly overpowered) isk making ability that massively affects its pvp capability. Your statement that it is overpowered for pvp is not borne out, due to your recent nerf, as I will explain later.
2) You have greatly reduced the overall utility of a ship that many players have invested huge amounts of their time or IRL money to get into without even changing the base cost of the ship itself. This is naturally going to upset large parts of the player base, such as many of my salty alliance mates who have posted here because you have now wasted their hard earned isk.
3) You have nerfed the PVP capability of a ship right after a previous nerf, without there being sufficient data to determine whether the original nerf had had the intended effect. My reasoning here is that super fights don't come up that much. And by fights I don't mean Goon/PL/NC super blob lands on normal size cap fleet and obliterates everything in site. Frankly, when you have that much dominance by ship class, you SHOULD be dominating everything in site. My point is that fights where team A and team B have a similar number of capital class ships and a few supers in the mix, this doesn't actually come up that much. Making changes to the meta should be borne out by a reasonable portion of data. The nerf to the price of pirate battleships for example is entirely warranted because we have had an immense amount of data to show that pirate battleships are overly dominant in the meta and it has stabilised on a single hull, which makes the game boring AF. That's a good nerf.
However, there has not yet been suffiicent data to show the effect of the fighter nerf and whether or not it has been effective. My own limited impressions have been that that nerf has actually made supers extremely easy to defang, making them extremely expensive lumps of scrap metal. This was borne out in the PL dunk of CO2 supers, where gram squadrons were used with great effect to render CO2 supers helpless. Many alliances have not yet realised this and dropping supers often ends fights because they retain boogey man status in the meta. The eve community needs to time to learn and adapt tactics to create a new meta, following a nerf or a buff. With supers, that period is longer, because there are less of them and they are used less and by a much small number of alliances. However, instead of observing this rule, CCP have followed what was a very strong nerf, with another immense nerf. This is a poor call.
These three points lead me to the conclusion that this is a bad change. So, what would be a better change? The last of your changes is the correct way to go. If you want to nerf the isk sink, plug the hole, not the water. Massively increasing aggro against fighters (100% plus would be warranted) will make this mode of ratting far less desirable and make it cost more in practice for those who do it. This one change can single handedly solve the problem. You don't have to patch a problem that doesn't exist, or at least can't be proven through any meaningful data. |

Zoey Quickpoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:11:06 -
[206] - Quote
This is great stuff! Make the Ravens great again! 
|

Xuan Menzoberanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:11:11 -
[207] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:Inquisitor Lucious wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too And please don't forget, that shortly after this death nail, a new series of skins will appear.
Skins for Carriers and supers  |

Lucian James
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
183
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:12:00 -
[208] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/1Zp87xk.png i just made this :D |

Sapphire Voice
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:12:04 -
[209] - Quote
Oh! I know what CCP does when it's own team is lazy to find a solution. They post a completely insane announcement, and then waiting till smart players will post a bit less stupid solution on that stupid nerf in their comments. 
And at the end then they will say that this decision was based on our comments!!! 
Just watch it! I swear they will implement that stupid nerf. And If that will gonna happen I will unsub all my Supers alts.
No jokes CCP!!! |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:14:21 -
[210] - Quote
CCP has statistics for almost everything.
It means, that they probably do have it covered with data telling them carrier and super ratting is just OP money faucet, even compared to incursions so reason is surely there. Also, Incursions are group activity and actually need a lot of organization compared to solo ratting in null so thats one point why Incursions are not targeted probably.
However, nerfing Fighter damage overall is IMHO "easy solution", which is bad. I am afraid to take my carrier into PVP as it is bacause I can be killed easily by couple of subcaps, my high damage and jump drive is the only thing that makes my Thanatos Carrier different from Dominix.
If problem is Capitals in PVE, then the addressed problem should be CARRIERS AND PVE, not carriers overall. The best solution IMO would be to code rats some special "fighter resistance" or "fighter damage taken reduction". You can play with that number then to optimize ISK ticks to some reasonable levels.
Nerfing carriers in PVP is bad. They are weak already IMO.
|
|

Kromarx
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
18
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:14:41 -
[211] - Quote
Instead of nerfing an entire ship class and lengthy drone skill train, consider nerfing the value of the anomolies?? |

Heleana Commodus Luyseyal
Old Town Blades of Grass
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:16:03 -
[212] - Quote
CCP should start drug testing their employees. |

Omega Erkkinen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:18:02 -
[213] - Quote
This is a poor decision
Months of training, 25bill aprox cost to buy and fit
Rendered effectively useless by CCP spitting in our face with an over the top nerf
Poor poor decision that leaves me questioning the game direction? If I work hard towards an objective and achieve it CCP could ruin it with a stroke of the keyboard.
Why should we bother?
CCPS tagline about building your dream and ruining other people's seems to ring more true for their dev,'s who destroy more player dreams than anyone |

Sapphire Voice
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:18:20 -
[214] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:CCP has statistics for almost everything.
It means, that they probably do have it covered with data telling them carrier and super ratting is just OP money faucet, even compared to incursions so reason is surely there. Also, Incursions are group activity and actually need a lot of organization compared to solo ratting in null so thats one point why Incursions are not targeted probably.
However, nerfing Fighter damage overall is IMHO "easy solution", which is bad. I am afraid to take my carrier into PVP as it is bacause I can be killed easily by couple of subcaps because of being almost immobile and easily hunted down, my high damage and jump drive is the only thing that makes my Thanatos Carrier different from Dominix.
If problem is Capitals in PVE, then the addressed problem should be CARRIERS AND PVE, not carriers overall. I do understand that you propably dont want to reduce anomaly payouts, because that would also nerf all other ratters, not only carrier users. So, the best solution IMO would be to code rats some special "fighter resistance" or "fighter damage taken reduction". You can play with that number then to optimize ISK ticks to some reasonable levels.
Nerfing carriers in PVP is bad. They are weak already IMO.
You know what CCP will say on this: Nah , that's too complicated to code we don't have so much time to do that. And yeah we want PVPers to suffer as well. Because we can! |

Siobhan MacLeary
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
239
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:18:36 -
[215] - Quote
"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."
Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP?
GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ - CCP Soundwave
|

Drengi Achasse
The Ancients of Eternity The Pestilent Legion
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:20:15 -
[216] - Quote
How about reducing bounties? Or changing absolutely everything other than the ship itself? These changes to the ships are targeted at PvE, but they are making the PvP aspect of them very useless as well... |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:20:41 -
[217] - Quote
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."
Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP?
That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO.
|

Ares Splinter
Bank Of Zion Circle-Of-Two
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:22:20 -
[218] - Quote
Elena Cassidy wrote:hey lets nerf everything that makes money end game thanks ccp think i might be leaving game permintly this time now theres gonna be no way to afford anything cant do rorq mining it got nerf bat from hell cant do Carrier or Super Ratting its getting nerfed to hell now why is end game Stuff getting nerfed. You are making it impossible to to pay for this game within the game because you are trying to be money hungry with this stupid *** plex meta bull****. wake up CCP your killing your own game
you are far from alone leaving servel members in our coprs are going too ours Rorq miners have say stop ...also now |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:22:53 -
[219] - Quote
"JUST BUFF NULLSEC"
The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms.
the Guide wrote:With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely.
The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough!
This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE.
And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents). |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
115
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:23:59 -
[220] - Quote
Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP.
Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you:
1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers.
2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter
3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it.
4. Spend less time pushing entities deeper into their own sandbox and free them up to kill each other.
5. Make a grand announcement that you have decided to sell the game to a developer who enjoys war and not creating stupid color schemes for ships. |
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:25:48 -
[221] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
In addition to my last post I did want to say that while this is necessary, it may just drive folks to do other things. Incursions are still a thing yes, but there is also the issue of blitzing lvl 5 missions with carriers and supers which will make more income than supers and carriers can now. People don't do it as much because anoms existed, but that might change.
I know you guys are working on PVE after our talks in the BR Sotiyo thread, so thanks. |

btOw Ragnarson
Lisnave Mordus Angels
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:26:17 -
[222] - Quote
Nice job afther 10 y play eve just cancel my all accounts , i dont gona play 1 game nerf come all days and just for who have alot of skils you wish nerf isk making nerf every one start ban scan in jita |

Madbuster73
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
151
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:26:21 -
[223] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:
If you wan to slow down PVE income - reduce bounty, or increase the rat EHP.
THIS ^^
|

Arquaz Fz
Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:26:29 -
[224] - Quote
Welcome to Nerf Online, a new kind of survival game. |

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1378
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:27:01 -
[225] - Quote
CCP Larrikin 2nd only to Fozzie in not understanding what "game Balance" is.
You guys show over and over just how little you know about the game you "develop" (LOL that word just doesn't fit at all with what happens in Iceland anymore) If income from Anoms is too high you reduce the income not nerf ships.
You do a balance change specifically due to ratting ticks but instead of just finding a fix for that issue you reduce the PVP usefulness of the ships. How fukin brilliant you guys are..
Increase cost of everything produced in the game with mining nerfs, push up prices of pirate BS then nerf income at the same time. Do you not want to keep active players active?
Game balance my great aunt Ginnies patooti - You don't have a clue...
CCP Larrikin - The circus is looking for an animal attendant - You get to shovel all the shite you want there.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|

Siobhan MacLeary
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
239
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:27:07 -
[226] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Siobhan MacLeary wrote:"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."
Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still.
An alternative thought: decrease pirate SIG to make it harder to hit them with fighters.
I feel increasingly like these changes are designed specifically to **** over goons.
Rorqual nerfs, then pirate BS price increase, then carrier nerfs. In order: Screws with income for our members, screws with our future ability to supply high-end doctrines, then fucks with both line member income and utility in PvP.
GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ - CCP Soundwave
|

Erie TehGM
Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:28:04 -
[227] - Quote
CCP never listen to majority of players, do they?
Most people didn't want previous fighter changes. "We want your feedback". Nothing changed, feedback mostly negative (at least as I saw it). Granted, that change wasn't back, but on to next point.
Now next fighter nerf. And this one is actually significant. Make it half this, and it won't be bad. But this is ridiculous.
Fozzie sov significantly reduced isk drains. No one likes fozzie sov, either. Just listen to community and you'll know. (hint hint) Make more isk losses and reduce isk income less. That's the way to do it, and people will then enjoy PvP (and game overally) more. Not the other way around.
I'll also quote my fellow corpie
Quote: VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m) Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m) Carrier ratting = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b) Super ratting = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)
Seems balanced to me.
Do you guys even play this game? =/
|

Biblised Deninard
Shadow Mantis Circle-Of-Two
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:28:23 -
[228] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
#CCPigs |

Racken Ormand
Something Something Darkside. Circle-Of-Two
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:30:14 -
[229] - Quote
Omega Erkkinen wrote:This is a poor decision
Months of training, 25bill aprox cost to buy and fit
Rendered effectively useless by CCP spitting in our face with an over the top nerf
Poor poor decision that leaves me questioning the game direction? If I work hard towards an objective and achieve it CCP could ruin it with a stroke of the keyboard.
Why should we bother?
CCPS tagline about building your dream and ruining other people's seems to ring more true for their dev,'s who destroy more player dreams than anyone
That's exactly what they are doing taking end game ships and nerfing them making them pointless. Good way to keep people engaged CCP. |

Yavin Four
Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:30:43 -
[230] - Quote
How to break your game and anger your players by slashing their income:
Step 1: Increase sig radius to all fighters Step 2: Decrease damage output to all fighters. Step 3: Again, Decrease damage output to all fighters by 20%. Step 4: ??? Step 5: No profit |
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:31:33 -
[231] - Quote
Madbuster73 wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:
If you wan to slow down PVE income - reduce bounty, or increase the rat EHP.
THIS ^^
NOT this. Why punish everyone when Carriers and supers are the problem?
I didn't jump on the Carrier/Super Carrier ratting bandwagon (nor the Rorq bandwagon) because I knew this would happen eventually. I rat in sub capital ships and should not have to have a harder time because everyone else jumped on an isk making FOTM.
|

Barduck Martins
Zonk Squad Badfellas Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:24 -
[232] - Quote
With this many people will rat only to plex and cant afford buying ships to big pvp battles in nullsec. When foi think you find a problem you have to think in what outcome your solution will bring. It shows more and more every day your hunger for money from RL. |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:42 -
[233] - Quote
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Siobhan MacLeary wrote:"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."
Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. An alternative thought: decrease pirate SIG to make it harder to hit them with fighters. I feel increasingly like these changes are designed specifically to **** over goons. Rorqual nerfs, then pirate BS price increase, then carrier nerfs. In order: Screws with income for our members, screws with our future ability to supply high-end doctrines, then fucks with both line member income and utility in PvP.
Goons like to present nerfs as Anti-Goons nerfs but believe me or not, other people also use carriers for ratting. |

HuntedMaster
HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:47 -
[234] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Siobhan MacLeary wrote:"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."
Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still.
Wrong, what your doing is making 6 ishtars the way to go, and still plexing all your accounts, and risking nothing, hell use Vni's. You be talkin a load o dat rubbish der.
|

Slummin
Alea Iacta Est Universal Blades of Grass
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:33:54 -
[235] - Quote
Ccp let's trillions of ISK into the economy via afk cheaters and then nerfs people who enjoy actually playing the game |

0risis
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:34:11 -
[236] - Quote
(1) Buy injectors on market to shore up "Core Skills" (2) Finish training needed skills (3) Begin recouping costs for injectors (4) Extract "Core Skills" as they become useless (5) See steps 1-4 |

Grella Khurelem
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:34:37 -
[237] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:Inquisitor Lucious wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:Every one step forward CCP takes 3 steps back. Like a autistic dance move. those usually incorporate some kinda twirl too And please don't forget, that shortly after this death nail, a new series of skins will appear.
Didn't you hear?!? A new set of skins comes out every Tuesday!
Oh CCP, you might want to cut back on that now. |

My Nin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:34:46 -
[238] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends,
We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. .
Sadly I am forced to call bullshit on you right there CCP Hypercreet  |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:12 -
[239] - Quote
Yavin Four wrote:How to break your game and anger your players by slashing their income:
Step 1: Increase sig radius to all fighters Step 2: Decrease damage output to all fighters. Step 3: Again, Decrease damage output to all fighters by 20%. Step 4: ??? Step 5: No profit
Well the problem is, your income is so high it causes inflation in the game. So .. yes, reducing your income IS the point here. |

Linda Bradford Raschke
LBR Group
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:19 -
[240] - Quote
Lucian James wrote:http://i.imgur.com/1Zp87xk.png i just made this :D
#CCPigs
You forgot to label the AFK VNIs and Ishtars in the background. |
|

Grella Khurelem
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:49 -
[241] - Quote
HuntedMaster wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Siobhan MacLeary wrote:"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."
Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. Wrong, what your doing is making 6 ishtars the way to go, and still plexing all your accounts, and risking nothing, hell use Vni's. You be talkin a load o dat rubbish der.
My VNIs are already on their way. |

Ar3s1sis
EVE-RO Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:35:59 -
[242] - Quote
More nerfs nothing new,in fact is ccp way of life but keeping this path you will lose the people that put food on your tables. Since you introduced the injectors you ****** up this game hard,and you keep doing it.Good job,keep up the shity work. I can't recall when we had a good war in eve and will never come whit the changes you made,so people are are farming like crazy.And your solution to that is nerfing all ? You guys are pathetic, i don't care about you nerfs because i don't rat or mine but in the big pictures you are killing us slowly.And i can tell you in a very nice way go **** yourself whit this shity game you make for your own profit.I want back the game that was 5-6 years ago because that was fun,not this bullshit you change every month,again for your profit. |

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1380
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:36:12 -
[243] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:"JUST BUFF NULLSEC" The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms. the Guide wrote:With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely. The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough! This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE. And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents). You do realize this nerf to carriers makes AFKTars more attractive. It isn't carriers that needed nerfing, it was just the "easiest" way due to laziness at CCP and not having the know how to "balance" income.
Running highsec Incursions is a far higher income stream than a single carrier in nul - CCP won't touch those for fear of losing highsec bears.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|

Saftica Fasole
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:36:31 -
[244] - Quote
Now i have to sell my carriers and start ratting in wh or do incursions. Thx CCP. |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
130
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:36:58 -
[245] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP.
Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you:
1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers.
2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter
3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it.
I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win.
Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need.
At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO.
CCP you would do well to remember that.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Lenna Volkova
Chemotherapy Brothers of Tangra
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:37:11 -
[246] - Quote
Just spent months getting my carrier ratting thing going. Now you slow it down even more? What, people not buying enough Plex so you'll slowly nerf isk generation into the ground? Screw you. Unsubbing and melting down sp. Rip 2 ur subs idiots |

Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
215
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:37:33 -
[247] - Quote
so....4 days before next patch you're ninja-ing these changes? Where was the CSM in all of this.... |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:11 -
[248] - Quote
HuntedMaster wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Siobhan MacLeary wrote:"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."
Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP? That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still. Wrong, what your doing is making 6 ishtars the way to go, and still plexing all your accounts, and risking nothing, hell use Vni's. You be talkin a load o dat rubbish der.
Well then sites should be redesigned to actually need some interaction. Nerfing payouts overall would of course help the economy the most, but thats quite radical and I imagine people saying here "just reduce payouts overall" bitching like crazy when that change is implemented and saying something like "dont punish us for someone else using carriers". |

Eric Podiene
Dead's Prostitutes Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:14 -
[249] - Quote
Please god no
When i first started playing I used to see carriers around and i knew they would really mess me up if i even got close to them and they were dangerous and scary. After the fighter changes around citadel they were still scary albeit much less scary and i saw them and said, "we could take that with the correct fleet". I don't want to end up seeing a nidhogger and say, " i can solo it in my vexor navy". I think caps are a very good endgame piece of equipment that allow older players who don't have the time but have the skills and ISK to be able to continually play and lose ships to us newer players and produce content. while there is a lot of money about i think that it encourages people to buy big ships then lose them gloriously. I think this shows in the number of supers killed with one or two dying on most days. i really think that there a better things to focus your(CCP's) time on and to not mess with things that aren't radically broken. There are still a lot of issues you haven't fixed and you chose to ignore those and instead focus on systems that aren't broken, i find this quite annoying as i find it harder to play this game everyday as it simply becomes harder and harder to do what i want.
my fairly useless two cents
|

JetStream Drenard
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
99
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:37 -
[250] - Quote
I don't even have the words to describe my level of incredulity about CCP's latest "deductive reasoning" skills. Why must you always treat the symptoms of problems instead of the cause??? Why must you always drive loyal players and vets away from the game? Why can't you take negative feedback with a grain of salt and just fix the ******* problems instead of making new ones all the time?
Carriers do not need a nerf, ratting does. fix the ******* problem. |
|

WheelsUK
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:38:52 -
[251] - Quote
I think CCP's real problem is the only thing they can't nerf, the size of the Imperium and doing everything on a scale which has never been seen before.
'2017 CCP' we want you to play our game, but not like that, or like that, maybe like this, oh no thats too much play now!
Also CCP come up with a way to make us War each other that way we won't have time to PVE, (hint) take a wee gander at Citadels.
God damn making me post on forums, 2 in one day wtf. |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:39:04 -
[252] - Quote
Linda Bradford Raschke wrote:Lucian James wrote:http://i.imgur.com/1Zp87xk.png i just made this :D
#CCPigs You forgot to label the AFK VNIs and Ishtars in the background.
This cannot be said enough though. if ALL CCP does is nerf carriers and supers and rorqs people will just compensate with legions of VNIs and more barges and in some cases moving alts to high sec to run incursions (just like the last time CCP nuked anoms).
If CCP wants to fix the problem there needs to be a comprehensive review of isk making, not these seemingly one off nerfs. As it stands people will just shift. |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
130
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:39:23 -
[253] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:so....4 days before next patch you're ninja-ing these changes? Where was the CSM in all of this....
Selling their carriers and rorquals, liquidating ore stocks and ripping out SP in their worker drone alts.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:41:07 -
[254] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Total Newbie wrote:Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP.
Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you:
1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers.
2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter
3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it.
I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win. Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need. At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO. CCP you would do well to remember that.
The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance. I believe you will not end up not being able to buy PLEX. Hell you can buy PLEX after ONE evening of ratting. Even if you had to spend 2 or 3, its still f***** easy. |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:41:44 -
[255] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:"JUST BUFF NULLSEC" The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms. the Guide wrote:With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely. The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough! This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE. And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents). You do realize this nerf to carriers makes AFKTars more attractive. It isn't carriers that needed nerfing, it was just the "easiest" way due to laziness at CCP and not having the know how to "balance" income. Running highsec Incursions is a far higher income stream than a single carrier in nul - CCP won't touch those for fear of losing highsec bears.
Did you not read my posts? I highlighted the part about the issue with VNIs and have been talking about that in other posts, as well as incursions. |

Eodp Ellecon
Air The Initiative.
28
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:41:45 -
[256] - Quote
Since CCP is nerfing Carriers and confirming their status a merely battleships...with the reduction in usefulness to fighter - CCPlease will of course reduce building components to correlate?
|

Tyorel Swayn
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:42:20 -
[257] - Quote
Many people bought injectors (indirectly giving you real money, CCP) just to get in carriers and start ratting. You're just spitting them in the face with this nerf. Anyway the problem won't affect big fishes. All you are doing now is ruining the game for mediocore and new players.
Reconsider these changes! |

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:42:39 -
[258] - Quote
Trevor2014 Gunson wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Yes, cause carrier and super carrier drones are the real problem here. Yes, cause HS Incursions aren't an isk sink whatsoever (coming from someone who ran them 8 hours a day) and Ratting in anoms for ONE MONTH because there's really no content anymore breaks the system.  Yes, cause AKFtar's are "Working as Intended".  Yes, cause AFK VNI's for low-skilled afkers are a thing. yes, cause CCP made it possible to become a super pilot in 5 minutes.  Yes, cause SOV is apparently great as you have to sit in one place for 5 minutes with your D*** out cause that's why you play a game?  Yes, cause RISK Vs. REWARD isn't a thing anymore and I should fly a Hel that gets a 30M tick when i can fly a VNI or Isthar getting the same ticks and go to the store for some cookies and milk and make half the cost of my ship back on a Gamble chance no one enters my system?  Yes, cause end-game isn't broken af now due to getting nerf hammers constantly. I think you need to re-evaluate what are "isk sinks" within the game. here's what you should fix: Fozzie SOV was the worst idea you ever came up with, it destroyed content generated. Get rid of it or get rid of your highly prized citadels. having both at the same time is not letting anyone take SOV just for the lol's. Small citadels get shorter rf time periods. big citadels get longer time periods. (kinda a duhh realization there)  Make HS incursion rats harder to kill. (incorporate your new all-mighty NPC Player Mirror abilities or whatever you call it into HS Isk sinks, GET RID OF THE NO RISK FOR UNLIMITED REWARD BULLS*** THAT IS HS INCURSIONS). Get rid of the Entosis BS.... wait, did I already mention that? Lower the Bounty payouts of rats everywhere in every region (that would surely drop the Isk Sink that apparently is in NS cause we can't do anything with no major wars going on) Make NPC rats tougher everywhere (and double their HP for HS incursions cause they are carebears and need to work for their isk just like everyone else) one last thing before i finish my rant and 2nd forum post ever cause i don't like doing this stuff Listen to your community and ACTUALLY read these forum posts, it's literally the same things over and over and over.... DO something about it. Isn't that why we have CSM's or whatever they are called, don't really know their names cause I hardly ever hear them doing anything for the community. Stop bringing in new items, and go back over the stuff already here and fix it, NOT NERF IT, upgrade it. delete this, delete that, then... then you can start working on new things.
CSM is a big fat joke... just look at what they say and do... |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:43:00 -
[259] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Total Newbie wrote:Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP.
Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you:
1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers.
2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter
3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it.
I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win. Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need. At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO. CCP you would do well to remember that.
You know it's the end game when NC and Grrr Gons agree. WTB real, meaningful conflict in all the things.
|

Xuan Menzoberanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:43:09 -
[260] - Quote
Your Nerf will work both for PVE and PVP ...
So maybe instead of making carriers bigger poo in pvp then they already are, use your own idea from other ship
The Pacifier Covert Ops Frigate
+10% Security Status gains from destruction of non-capsuleer pirates while flying this ship Armor Repairer and Shield Booster effectiveness increased by a percentage equal to 10x pilot security status, with a floor of 0% and ceiling of 50%
Carrier - Super Could have stuff like
Pirates pose no threat to you, your Bounty payout is reduced by 5%/10%/20%/30% [email protected][email protected][email protected]?
Atleast until we or you find better solution ... |
|

Kalioria
U.K.R.A.I.N.E SOLAR FLEET
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:43:21 -
[261] - Quote
I was farming anomalies with 2 BS that made 40 mil\tick. Not afk, constant switching between windows to assign correct targets, watching for neutrals in system, etc. That is not much fun. I was thinking about carrier, even after previous nerf it seemed like a good way to stick to one account farming. Carrier without much skills have ~3.2k dps (common attack + rockets). 2 BS with my skills have 2.2k dps, each is 5 times cheaper than carrier. After simple math, 3.2k -30% = 2.1k dps on easy target with agility of a mountain. On the other hand I can have 4 gilas on each of my account and just stay afk just watching local for neutrals.
So what's the point of having carrier now? PVP? It's not so useful unless you want to spend few days jumping to your enemy to get over-blobbed by bunch of supers, that used to be ratting cans.
From my point of view economics is killed by skill injectors. So isks are made out of nowhere. The second point that kills eve is that CCP increases gap between rick people and all other. As those who play less, they set long term goals - for example learn and buy carrier to become a bit more effective in farming. But when this goal is achieved - it start to smell like a dead dog, because of new nerf. At the same time people who had a lot of money before, can buy injectors and switch to new more profitable way of farming much faster.
One more funny thing, just imagine how farming will look like in 1-2 years when new Blood Rider AI is introduced to other PVE areas. Probably we would need to form fleets to complete a Horde or Heaven, spending 30 minutes to share 30mil, just because spending more time with less income is so much fun.
Anyway no-one from dev side reads and cares about community comments.
Accepting isk donations for ammo.
|

Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
41
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:03 -
[262] - Quote
Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp. |

Erie TehGM
Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:13 -
[263] - Quote
Tyorel Swayn wrote:Many people bought injectors (indirectly giving you real money, CCP) just to get in carriers and start ratting. You're just spitting them in the face with this nerf. Anyway the problem won't affect big fishes. All you are doing now is ruining the game for mediocore and new players.
Reconsider these changes!
All their "balance" patches are like that. Big fishes are never trully affected, line members get screwed over. |

elise densi
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:26 -
[264] - Quote
skill extractor sale when ? |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16060
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:44:38 -
[265] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance.
+1
This is the thing that people miss. Just like how nerfing rorqs makes the price rebound which means that while you are making less isk, the isk you make is worth more.
These nerfs actually mean better income for ratters. The escalation nerf means deadspace loot will be worth more, and this carrier nerf means even less escalations and less isk stuff into the economy which eventually might mean lower plex prices = easier to plex with less time ratting.
People can be so self centered they don't know when they are being helped.
|

August - Breeze
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:45:46 -
[266] - Quote
I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! |

Xuan Menzoberanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:46:55 -
[267] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp.
AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super??
Are you mad or something ? |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:48:00 -
[268] - Quote
August - Breeze wrote:I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income!
So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... which will be cheaper if there is less ISK made by ratting overall. |

Erie TehGM
Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:49:46 -
[269] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:August - Breeze wrote:I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ...
But only one account to keep subbed. |

Lunarstorm95
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas. Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:25 -
[270] - Quote
Can you guys just come out and say ur goal is force old players to start having to buy plexs since the whole f2p thing didn't work out yet?
GÇ£You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.GÇ¥
GÇò Robert A. Heinlein
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
GÇò Confucius-á
|
|

Selleka Virpio
Zap Blap Mining Co. Demonic Wheat Pineapple
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:26 -
[271] - Quote
CCP can we please just stop focusing on what Goons is doing and look at the rest of the community? Thanks that would be great. |

Slivo
Beehive Surveillance X877.
28
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:48 -
[272] - Quote
What the ******* hell is this ..
EveHQ Development Team
Follow us on EveHQ.co | Twitter | Facebook
|

Kenneth Fritz
DND Industries FUBAR.
12
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:55 -
[273] - Quote
I honestly can't fathom the thought process that brought this change about. First the Rorq gets it, now carriers. I don't understand this over the top reduction in playability for the end game stuff. At this stage you may as well get rid of capitals all together. It is pointless to own something that will now be able to be out DPS'd by a T2/T3 cruiser and battleships. Especially for those of us that are armor we can't up our dps without sacrificing tank. This is getting ridiculous.
Serious question: Are you guys coming up with this crap and then taking bets on how many you can get to rage quit the game permanently?
You want to limit the amount of ore that can be minded fine; limit the amount that can be mined with the timers.
You want ratting to be less profitable; fine change the bounty amounts, or in crease rat EHP or both.
Stop taking the easy and overall lazy way out to "fix" the game.
Who's your end of the world buddy?
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:51:55 -
[274] - Quote
Erie TehGM wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:August - Breeze wrote:I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... But only one account to keep subbed.
Not when hes cancelling the ratting one ;) |

Burberry Muffin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:52:18 -
[275] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
So a 50-60tick is too much for that micromanagement and risk? 5 heavens in a row and its aids.... PLS CCP r u guys play this game? So carries r OP in PVP "ROFL", imagine that u fly a 4bil fitted carrier with fighters and one green deimos for about 750Mil can easily tank your ****** dps output and this is real now before nerf. It is a fck.... carrier "he must kill subcapitals easy and quick" I didnt talk about supers now... too much rage for that skill queve fails and other issues with that game. Why iam ******* pay that 4accounts.
ffs... tha last one who leave pls turn off the light 404 error sarcasm not found
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16062
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:52:33 -
[276] - Quote
I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. |

Sapphire Voice
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:53:04 -
[277] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp.
You got payed by CCP or what?)))) |

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:53:05 -
[278] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:August - Breeze wrote:I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ...
It is actually from 150m to 90m with alot more risk to fighter losses wich bring that down even more.
Not too mention... the biggest problem in eve is actually there are NO more isk burners... like wars ... because .... CITADELS !
|

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:53:10 -
[279] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance.
+1 This is the thing that people miss. Just like how nerfing rorqs makes the price rebound which means that while you are making less isk, the isk you make is worth more. These nerfs actually mean better income for ratters. The escalation nerf means deadspace loot will be worth more, and this carrier nerf means even less escalations and less isk stuff into the economy which eventually might mean lower plex prices = easier to plex with less time ratting. People can be so self centered they don't know when they are being helped. thats how it would work in an ideal economy not in eve though firstly less minerals means higher mineral costs this doesnt affect people who already stockpiled a lot of assets it only affects those who wont be able to break into those markets after the changes more money in rich players hands who are the same players stockpiling plex
secondly less isk means value of isk increases means the rich players can buy more with their wealth plex prices decrease who buys the plex yes the same rich players who stockpile the plex the price of plex stays the same because any decrease in price will immediately be negated by those who see the drop in price and add more plex to their stockpile
thirdly you have to remember we now have a plex sink in the nes store to further reinforce the price of plex on the market
so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk |

Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:55:25 -
[280] - Quote
The most disappointing thing which has happened in the last few weeks isn't even the dizzying round of nerfs which are hitting the game as band aids. It's the complete lack of consideration that CCP shows to their paying customers in the way they choose to apply their band aids and these customers are actually far more than that. They have been a loyal and creative community and deserve more than huge game changes being packaged under the blanket comment 'for the better health of the game' with little notice, little actual description and assessment of the issues. When all the skill queue stopped working, we should have heard it from CCP.
The community could survive all kinds of balance passes, all kinds of nerfs when players feel involved in the process and there is a good depth of explanation and use of statistics to support them We are all playing the game that YOU make, with all the mechanics that YOU introduced.
CCP please treat your player base with respect otherwise I suspect that no amount of band aids will recover 'the health of eve'. |
|

Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
186
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:56:25 -
[281] - Quote
Woa I didn't realize I was playing a PVE game. These balance changes are clearly a good idea for engaging content such as ratting. |

Gwinet
Deus-Ex-Machina Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:57:29 -
[282] - Quote
Lucian James wrote: From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money.
Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting.
If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money.
I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately.
#CCPigs
I absolutely agree! |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:57:43 -
[283] - Quote
Krypleria wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:August - Breeze wrote:I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... It is actually from 150m to 90m with alot more risk to fighter losses wich bring that down even more. Not too mention... the biggest problem in eve is actually there are NO more isk burners... like wars ... because .... CITADELS !
Is ISK really burned when you lose ships / citadels? Think about it.
You are paying for the things to someone else. He has the money now. You lose the ship/citadel, he still has the ISK you gave him. You generate more ISK via ratting, he mines more ore and makes more ships. You give him the generated ISK, he gives you ship. So what is burned here actually is ORE, not ISK. ISK is burned via insurances that expire, LP stores, NPC repairs and market taxes. The good ISK sink would be simply more transactions. So yea, wars do it too, but its not so direct and doesnt neccesarily have the effect. |

nikander100 Blackburn
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Circle-Of-Two
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:57:50 -
[284] - Quote
How about a new riot, ugh ugh. burn jita? |

Lhord GankBang
Black Omega Security Mercenary Coalition
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:58:18 -
[285] - Quote
Hi CCPs, that suck at game balance and should be fired.
Do you play the game at all? |

Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
15
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:58:40 -
[286] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing.
People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:58:50 -
[287] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:
so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk
All of these are good things.
When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol.
CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh"
It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much.
As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat.
|

ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution.
123
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:59:09 -
[288] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting.
Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people.
You can go kill them right? or get rid of your vast rental empire!!! |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:00:28 -
[289] - Quote
Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.
I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that.
This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem.
|

August - Breeze
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:00:49 -
[290] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Erie TehGM wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:August - Breeze wrote:I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... But only one account to keep subbed. Not when hes cancelling the ratting one ;)
Can you not read??? I specifically stated I have NEVER ratted in my carrier. |
|

Varg Wardruna
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:01:37 -
[291] - Quote
Okay so mining becomes ****, Carrier ratting becomes ****, the good BS's become too expensive..wtf should i do with my time? Station trading? running Missions in Highsec for close to no income? You are giving your Customers a Tool to boost up their Characters as fast as they want by paying more $ and than you punish them for actually paying those extra $ into your Wallet?
But yeah, drop more Nerfs instead of caring about those Turds who post in Public that they made x Trillion ISK by exploiting the Game.
**** this ****. +1unsub |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4002
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:01:37 -
[292] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable
Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec. Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month.
Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned.
This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers. |

LEEL000
Invictus Origin Brothers in Arms Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:01:50 -
[293] - Quote
CCP u are doing harakiri, u know that right ? |

Linda Bradford Raschke
LBR Group
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:08 -
[294] - Quote
So in an effort to curb capital dominance in pvp and pve, you've essentially made battleships do more effective dps to anything smaller than a carrier. Dreads do FAR more dps than a carrier and cost about the same. Dreads can compete with supers for dps at a massively lower risk level, which also makes them a much less desirable target, further discouraging fights because people are far less likely to form up for a 3b dread kill than a 30b super kill.
So what role do you want the carrier to play, exactly, CCP? Because at this point, I can't think of anything the carrier does better than a cheaper ship, other than buffer tank. But buffer tank is useless when your damage output is so easily reduced to zero.
I'd also like to know what mountain of logic came to the conclusion that carriers, which cannot be effectively multiboxed and make 200m/hour, are somehow inflating the economy, as opposed to something like a vni or ishtar which can make 54m/hour with very little input, making them easily scale. 4 accounts and you've outpaced a carrier pilot with less risk and less effort. Carrier pilots can't scale. Literally it cannot be done by a human.
There used to be a time when this game was balanced around risk/reward, effort, and skill. Now it seems to be balanced around a magic 8 ball.
I was considering re-subbing my 5 accounts after a 6 month break which was directly caused by a lack of available content. But it's pretty clear that you're doing nothing to create new content, and you are continuing to push knee-jerk reaction patches that only push the problem around or mask it, instead of attacking the problem at its source (which is largely a lack of content). So I guess I'll be back in another 6 months to see if you managed to get your act together, or a competitor took your place and filled the gaping hole you've left in this niche market. |

ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution.
123
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:42 -
[295] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! !
You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue.
You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis!
You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell.
You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content.
And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting?????????
The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME!
Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play.
dont you have multiple CSM reps thats supposed to talk for you? oh rite no they dont. |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
130
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:43 -
[296] - Quote
another way to reduce the Isk ingame is to get rid of insurance. No payout on ship death, plus a premium paid to CONCORD for cleaning up your "accident scene" in a percentage of your wallet by ship class. Frig and dessie? Oh lets say 1/2 % wallet. Capitals, lets arbitrarily say 5% of your WALLET. Tax the 1%'ers.
Implement a yearly income tax system that cannot be avoided. You do not pay your yearly income tax? Your wallet is seized. Your assets are seized. All tied to your api, so the "Forensic Accountants at CONCORD" will follow the money. Think you can evade the tax man? IP ban.
Do something to the isk scammers and market PVPers that have zero risk, sitting in Jita all day, manipulating markets, making uncounted billions with zero risk.
Give the working man a break.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1143
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:02:56 -
[297] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. To be fair, changes affect more than just ratting.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
|

Burberry Muffin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:03:05 -
[298] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Great changes
With all honesty man ur brainless douchebag.... |

Ezio Sotken
nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:03:36 -
[299] - Quote
Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.
Its not the impact to PVE that concerns me, but the reality that this is actually a PVP nerf. They will once again give people a reason to not use carriers for pvp. They are already the most useless cap type for PVP as it is, and now its gonna be worse.
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:04:11 -
[300] - Quote
Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.
He is reffering to overall economics, not exactly carrier damage nerf. While I disagree with Carrier PVP nerf, carrier PVE nerf alone is really needed, as is all ratting in fact. And Incursions. ISK is generated too quickly and too easily, causes inflation and in the end, the same ISK made now has lower purchasing power than couple of years back. |
|

Tom Marksson
Zima Corp Infinity Space.
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:06:23 -
[301] - Quote
This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule:
I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to have a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to have a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs.
Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"?
Per aspera ad astra.
|

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:06:54 -
[302] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Krypleria wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:August - Breeze wrote:I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)
I encourage everyone to do the same thing!
CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income! So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... It is actually from 150m to 90m with alot more risk to fighter losses wich bring that down even more. Not too mention... the biggest problem in eve is actually there are NO more isk burners... like wars ... because .... CITADELS ! Is ISK really burned when you lose ships / citadels? Think about it. You are paying for the things to someone else. He has the money now. You lose the ship/citadel, he still has the ISK you gave him. You generate more ISK via ratting, he mines more ore and makes more ships. You give him the generated ISK, he gives you ship. So what is burned here actually is ORE, not ISK. ISK is burned via insurances that expire, LP stores, NPC repairs and market taxes. The good ISK sink would be simply more transactions. So yea, wars do it too, but its not so direct and doesnt neccesarily have the effect.
ORE is not ISK making per se... it becomes ISK when someone that RATTED or made missions or incursions pays for the ORE in either hull or modules.
Losing a ship = a part of the total amount of ISK payed for it is lost even with ofc .. SRP ...
Please think about it....
So ...
Step 1. Make nullsec "Not safe" again Step 2. Create situation in wich Alliances have incentives to go to war for territory/resources Step 3: Advertise that content
instead of :
Step 1: Nerf isk makers Step 2: Lose overall players because of lack of content Step 3: Advertise PLEX Step 4: Lose more overall players because PLEX and lack of content because less players.
|

Santinav
Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:07:24 -
[303] - Quote
Lucian James wrote:Total Newbie wrote:Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! !
You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue.
You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis!
You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell.
You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content.
And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting?????????
The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME!
Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play. #CCPigs
#CCPigs |

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:07:25 -
[304] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:
so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk
All of these are good things. When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol. CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh" It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much. As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat. im not sure why they are good things all it does is increase the time it takes people to plex it doesnt cause the price of plex to drop ccp want to keep rich players rich because they know they will hoard plex
i mean in the long term sure maybe eventually the economy could reach a certain equilibrium but not in any meaningful timeframe
|

Slivo
Beehive Surveillance X877.
28
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:08:03 -
[305] - Quote
Any test on wormhole impact with those changes ? Or is your changes only based of nullsec players ?
EveHQ Development Team
Follow us on EveHQ.co | Twitter | Facebook
|

Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:08:38 -
[306] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that. This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem.
CCP have the games best interests at heart, Im sure. It's their business. That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused. I'm not convinced that the damage done by fighters is the actual cause of the problem, when infact only 3 of the 6 null sec ratting anoms are even considered worth ratting. Also, I ponder how the MER would have looked if even the newest players in EvE couldn't just splash some cash on their favourite game and inject into the 'top tier' isk making. That fact makes me feel like the player base deserve a little more respect than they are being shown with the latest fixes, which feel like they still fail to address the actual problems at a base level.
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:08:46 -
[307] - Quote
Tom Marksson wrote:This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule: I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to have a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to have a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs. Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"?
No you cant simply make more money with bigger ships indefinitely. It would ruin the game economy if more people did it and prices of everything would skyrocket, making people who dont use your method of ISK generating effectively poor and not being able to afford anything, for example PLEX. |

Burberry Muffin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:09:21 -
[308] - Quote
Gwinet wrote:Lucian James wrote: From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money.
Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting.
If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money.
I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately.
#CCPigs
I absolutely agree!
AGREE |

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:09:38 -
[309] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable
Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec. Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month. Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned. This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers. sure thats what im saying but to somehow translate that into a decrease in plex prices is erroneous imo
|

Heleana Commodus Luyseyal
Old Town Blades of Grass
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:11:55 -
[310] - Quote
Ok, lets all stop ratting in any other ship than VNI, why you may ask?
Because VNI/Ishtar gives you 20 mills ticks and you dont even need to lock targets, warp to a site drop drones and that is that, you dont need to even lock targets if your drones are set to agressive. Be back in 30-40 mins when your haven is done. Have 10x VNI accounts and thats it, and farm inflation till end of days.
CCP Logic - you DONT NEED TO DO NOTHING to get ISK because you employ high school kids that code for you, and that is not an issue. On the other hand you have drug adicts which are going trough statistical data and they gave us this perfect solution. Nerf a ship class which is already not that great at all in PvP, main reason why that class of ships even exist, because that ship can rat well, yeah it can rat good, but at a price, you can only use 1 carrier to do so, with a great micro managment from a player/APM. So it gives a good amount of isk for really big effort.
AFK VNI/Ishtars army, where you DONT NEED TO DO NOTHING for nice isk.With 0 effort, 0 skill points, 0 investment, everybody can have their personal VNI army, 5 VNI's / Ishtars basically pull same numbers as a carrier / super isk/h wise, but for 0 effort.Didnt come to your mind that this is actual problem, not carriers?
Simply introduce same mechanic which other ship have and VNI/Ishtars dont.They dont even need to LOCK THEIR TARGETS to be able to get ISK from them. |
|

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
131
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:12:05 -
[311] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sassura wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.
People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board. It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted). This is a good thing. People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs. I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that. This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem.
If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth.
Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:12:23 -
[312] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:JC Mieyli wrote: so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable
Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec. Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month. Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned. This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers. sure thats what im saying but to somehow translate that into a decrease in plex prices is erroneous imo
In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically.
Still, I am not agreeing with Fighter damage nerf, PVP should not be nerfed at all! Rats should be harder to kill with fighters and anoms should not be AFK doable. |

Ezio Sotken
nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:14:01 -
[313] - Quote
Burberry Muffin wrote:Gwinet wrote:Lucian James wrote: From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money.
Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting.
If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money.
I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately.
#CCPigs
I absolutely agree! AGREE
The motion has been approved and seconded.
ALL in favor say Aye |

Orion Kerensky
Pure Avarice. Pandemic Legion
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:14:01 -
[314] - Quote
CCP needs to do a better job at cloaking nerfs directed towards how players make isk. We don't want them to look too greedy as they move towards PTW |

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:15:52 -
[315] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically. well its not as simple as you make it sound when you have people investing in assets then the value of those assets increases as a result of ccp meddling with mineral values nerfing mining and then nerfing ratting income
those people with large stockpiles of assetts only see their wealth increase for no reason other than ccp messing with things and those people will continue to stockpile plex intil demand for plex decreases and im sure you can figure out what a decrease in demand for plex means
|

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
132
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:17:24 -
[316] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:
so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable it makes isk harder to obtain and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk
All of these are good things. When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol. CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh" It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much. As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat.
You are still taking too small of a picture to make a valid argument. What about the people in Jita making bank scamming idiots? Why should they continue to rack up huge wallets with ZERO risk? Why should a small percentage alone be forced to surrender their income streams? There needs to be bigger sweeping changes in the game to keep it viable. CCP arbitrarily going after small groups of specific income streams doesn't solve anything. We will always find a way to min/max each meta they come up with, except for a game wide mechanic that affects EVERYONE regardless of income method. The wealth hoarders will have to pay more of course, but that's the cost of doing business.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Azn Assassin
Dissidence Dawn The-Culture
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:17:42 -
[317] - Quote
Is this a damn joke? CCP we are past April so you can drop the April fool's routine. How about you save everyone trouble and just delete carriers and super carriers from the game. You do this CCP you'll be -1 active subscription here I'll take my second account down. Think carefully before you do this, you will lose subscriptions over taking a cheap way out on a design decision. |

Abagah Khan
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:18:23 -
[318] - Quote
Quote:If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth.
Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams.
this is something ive noticed myself lately. Outside of skins, there is nothing to sink isk into. So i put it in anotehr ship.. or in this case the market, making even more isk that i have nothing to spend it on.. |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:18:55 -
[319] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically. well its not as simple as you make it sound when you have people investing in assets then the value of those assets increases as a result of ccp meddling with mineral values nerfing mining and then nerfing ratting income those people with large stockpiles of assetts only see their wealth increase for no reason other than ccp messing with things and those people will continue to stockpile plex intil demand for plex decreases and im sure you can figure out what a decrease in demand for plex means
Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. |

Dalron
Infinite Holdings Ltd
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:19:06 -
[320] - Quote
Instead of nerfing carriers add some proper PVE content, add capital escalations the hubs/sanctums etc with scrambling battleships to hold the carriers in place so that content can be generated, people can still use carriers, and get great rewards but at much higher risk balancing things out. |
|

Mierin Arthie
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:19:10 -
[321] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
Why not just reduce bounty payouts? Isnt that the problem?
Please CCP, you should have at least 2 functioning braincells available at the office. Rub them togeather and you should be able to come up with something better than this. It would also go a long way in preventing errors like last nights skill pause script. |

Kendarr
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:19:26 -
[322] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends.
Your not my friend!
MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'(
Zebra-Corp
|

Nick Samerr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:01 -
[323] - Quote
good change :) |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:47 -
[324] - Quote
Sassura wrote:[That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused.
I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it.
My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?".
They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there.
CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived.
CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen.
|

Xantopeuss
Balcan United Elite Brothers in Arms Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:48 -
[325] - Quote
Ok here is my opinion.... First, You guys in CCP don't know anymore what are You doing. Second, the real problem for You is not to many isk (bounty), mining, production in eve, You just work against Delve region and possible CFC in general.
Ok You will nerf fighters, rorqs etc. but You will do that to whole EVE Universe and again Delve will be No1. Why? In that one region 30000 people lives!!!! And how much people left in all others regions? 50000? I'm not takling about alts. Whit this latest updates You will only lost people... We like to play EvE but it seems that You worh very hard to make us stop... Maybe thats the real goal? You have some better game with better income so its lime for EVE to dye? Mah.... |

Fl4chz4ng3
Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:58 -
[326] - Quote
As always wh people will be happy and the others not
Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions
Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
|

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:23:39 -
[327] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:11 -
[328] - Quote
I would really like to know, if all these people saying "I am unsubing", "I am canceling my accounts" really go and do it, or just try to take CCP hostage  |

Jonas Skypilot
Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:46 -
[329] - Quote
Lucian James wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again... CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money. Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting. If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money. I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately. #CCPigs
#CCPigs |

iFars
Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:54 -
[330] - Quote
If you notice that a member of your company has started to collect money for a car or a house - does he begin to receive lower wages? |
|

Thomasina
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:58 -
[331] - Quote
Kendarr wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends. Your not my friend! MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'(
*You're
How are you going to get iskies for your toonies now? |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:00 -
[332] - Quote
Mierin Arthie wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Why not just reduce bounty payouts? Isnt that the problem? Please CCP, you should have at least 2 functioning braincells available at the office. Rub them togeather and you should be able to come up with something better than this. It would also go a long way in preventing errors like last nights skill pause script.
Telling people to rub braincells together while sayhing something dumb lol. This must be the internet.
Why should they punish everyone when carrier/super ratters are the problem?
|

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
118
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:30 -
[333] - Quote
CCP: This "Logic" would almost be correct if Eve was a PVE game.
The most effective way to subdue the Isk faucets is to make changes in the game that allow CONFLICT to occur. It's pretty hard to rat all day if you have enemies able to deploy into your space. But, since it takes hours on end to even get 2 or 3 regions away to go shoot your enemies, you can sit at home in your dead space pocket that no one can come to, let alone conquer and stare at he thousands of citadels that will remain in space for years to come, because no one wants to spend 6 days grinding them.
Do you guys EVER stop and think, we keep making changes to the game, but people keep leaving anyway? Perhaps your "Changes" aren't really changes afterall?
We are going to get rid of SBUs!!!!!!!!!! No one want's to grind Sov!
We are going to create fatigue and have timers so no one can deploy to grind sov!
We are going to make cool structures that take a week to kill, because........... no one wants to grind sov?
We are going to force people into null sec to...................... rat and mine?
We are going to nerf ratting and mining, because no one is leaving their region to go grind sov.............
Yup, makes perfect sense to me. |

Tom Marksson
Zima Corp Infinity Space.
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:54 -
[334] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Tom Marksson wrote:This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule: I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to have a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to have a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs. Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"? No you cant simply make more money with bigger ships indefinitely. It would ruin the game economy if more people did it and prices of everything would skyrocket, making people who dont use your method of ISK generating effectively poor and not being able to afford anything, for example PLEX. Actually, I can. And I explained, why, above. The majority of players (at least, in our coalition) still cannot afford to fly a capital ship, though I admit the amount of carrier pilots has increased since the summer 2016. You would be surprised, but when I wasn't a capital pilot, I could afford PLEX and some faction ships and CTA ships and mountains of skill injectors and everything. The difference between my current financial state and the previous one is that I am able to earn ISK without spending too much time as I did before. And the income is relatively stable. If I'll have to spend more time to get the money, there would be no time left for the real life. I noticed only one thing that ruined the PLEX prices - the last update which removed the Aurum and split the old PLEX, increasing its price for 200 mil ISK.
Per aspera ad astra.
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:25:57 -
[335] - Quote
Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:As always wh people will be happy and the others not
Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions
Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
My Rattlesnake does 40.
|

Wayne Silk
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:26:03 -
[336] - Quote
CCP u know we : 1) Lose our RL time 2) Spend our RL money 3) We are paying your salary 4) We are real boss here
If u continue this we will find a new job and close CCP.
We have power to do that.
|

Carrion Crow
Disposable Spies Honorable Third Party
32
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:27:08 -
[337] - Quote
This is just lazy game design and you should feel bad.
This will discourage smaller groups dropping solo or small groups of carriers.
Fix the real problem - PVE.
CC |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
132
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:27:22 -
[338] - Quote
Abagah Khan wrote:Quote:If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth.
Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams. this is something ive noticed myself lately. Outside of skins, there is nothing to sink isk into. So i put it in another ship.. or in this case the market, making even more isk that i have nothing to spend it on..
That's right. I have amassed a huge collection of ships in different parts of the galaxy, and still maintained my wealth portfolio. It is just too much of a PITA to move stuff around and reship to Jita and resell. Even still, with the small isk sink of alliance doctrines on deployment, I'm able to grow my wallet. Why? Because CCP allows it. The minuscule amount of tax I pay on transactions, the minuscule price I pay for shipping and travelling costs is almost a profit. Ridiculous or not, not up to me to decide. But when I get paid out by CCP for losing a ship, and get my alliance funded SRP, I make money when I lose ships in the long run. If one can account for EBITDA in a game where there is no real income tax.
I'm not really sure that CCP knows what they are doing when it comes to money. But any retail regional manager or branch manager could tell you this. You don't need an economist to figure this out for you. If alliances corporations and individuals had to do their income tax at the end of the year, it wouldn't be fun, but it sure would make the playing field more level
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Mary Timeshift Jane
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:27:38 -
[339] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable.
And what will you do after I will have equipped all my ratter friends with Supers and all my miner friends with Rorqs, because THAT is exactly what I'm doing. Nerf them to useless? You cannot stop progress, you dullard!
Maybe you need your salary nerfed, cause you're trying too hard! |

Orcatorix Denizus
Distortion. Circle-Of-Two
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:18 -
[340] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
I protest this change, CCP is interfering with the nullsec meta too much recently.
Honestly, are you guys getting bankrupt or something?
#CCpigs! |
|

Radious Servasse
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
114
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:24 -
[341] - Quote
I think I might hate this change, but I do understand economics. The only real reason I rat these days is for plex and ships to blow up. When 90% of my time ratting is done just to get plex and 10% for ships, the game turns into a job. By reducing the amount carriers can make, there will be alot more effort required to grind a plex and such more players will leave the game. Over time, this new lack of demand will reduce plex prices to a more affordable level and those remainding will enjoy once again affordable plex prices. When the plex price finally falls, carrier ratting will once again be feasible.
Real nice plan CCP. I hope it works.
More isk means more expensive items and ships. |

Heleana Commodus Luyseyal
Old Town Blades of Grass
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:38 -
[342] - Quote
Carriers actually make you do something for your ISK, while Rorquals and VNI dont. CCP if you can make ISK by doing nothing that is your problem, prevent that option and problem is gone. |

Karina Ivanovich
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
235
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:28:41 -
[343] - Quote
Absolutely unacceptable, this removes so many avenues of play outside of ratting. I have no idea what your balance team is thinking. Seriously concerned about the future of eve if this is the direction/method you are taking.
Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
|

Trevize Demerzel
95
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:29:22 -
[344] - Quote
"NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently"
This is the real kicker.....
-
|

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2904
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:29:36 -
[345] - Quote
Darine Artwik wrote:Guess what? Multiboxing SB Battleships? No Nerf! Multiboxing VNIs/Ishtars? No Nerf! Multiboxing Rorquals? Just +1 Soloing Carriers/Supers? Nerfed to death. Soloing Rorquals? Nerfed to death.
CCP certainly NOT following a special agenda there. Multiboxing and therefore more sub money for CCP not favored at all.
Another valid point that both this change and the Rorqual nerf do not address. Carrier ratting, while lucrative, requires the player to be at his computer actively playing the game. It does not scale well as you add more accounts (unlike Rorqual mining). CCP should be promoting active game play that encourages people to get out in space and do things.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

Asian Driver
Forgotten Artifacts Laboratories
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:30:28 -
[346] - Quote
Lightbringer wrote:Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell?
Man...second comment is just a few minutes. Kinda salty today huh?
It's clear that null alliances have more than enough money, so now making the same amount is going to be a little harder. Boo hoo... |

Karina Ivanovich
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
235
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:31:36 -
[347] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Darine Artwik wrote:Guess what? Multiboxing SB Battleships? No Nerf! Multiboxing VNIs/Ishtars? No Nerf! Multiboxing Rorquals? Just +1 Soloing Carriers/Supers? Nerfed to death. Soloing Rorquals? Nerfed to death.
CCP certainly NOT following a special agenda there. Multiboxing and therefore more sub money for CCP not favored at all. Another valid point that both this change and the Rorqual nerf do not address. Carrier ratting, while lucrative, requires the player to be at his computer actively playing the game. It does not scale well as you add more accounts (unlike Rorqual mining). CCP should be promoting active game play that encourages people to get out in space and do things.
^^^^^^^^
Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
|

Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
41
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:31:36 -
[348] - Quote
Xuan Menzoberanza wrote:Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp. AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super?? Are you mad or something ?
Passive = Moon Income
Mining/Rating in Carriers is AFK if you can multibox 5 rorquals/carriers
|

Karina Ivanovich
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
235
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:32:25 -
[349] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Xuan Menzoberanza wrote:Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp. AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super?? Are you mad or something ? Passive = Moon Income Mining/Rating in Carriers is AFK if you can multibox 5 rorquals/carriers
You can't effectively multibox more than 2 carriers, even then it is a stretch.
Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
|

ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
484
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:32:59 -
[350] - Quote
Anna Wong wrote:What about citadels? The damage output especially from the medium citadels is low enough without a further reduction
i am also concerned with further reductions to Citadel defences they are already rather underpowerd to defend themselves against any real attempt to take them out.
|
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:33:37 -
[351] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it
Lets summarize it.
The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX consts and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again.
So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant.
The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team. |

Anthar Thebess
1705
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:34:00 -
[352] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Xuan Menzoberanza wrote:Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp. AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super?? Are you mad or something ? Passive = Moon Income Mining/Rating in Carriers is AFK if you can multibox 5 rorquals/carriers You cannot multibox carriers, don't even try with supers.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|

Logan Jakal
Blue Sun. DARKNESS.
27
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:34:28 -
[353] - Quote
Y'all at CCP just went from "probably ********" to "fully ********". |

Scath Bererund
SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore
62
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:34:38 -
[354] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends,
You are not a friend to anyone who lives in nulsec |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16063
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:35:11 -
[355] - Quote
Radious Servasse wrote:I think I might hate this change, but I do understand economics. The only real reason I rat these days is for plex and ships to blow up. When 90% of my time ratting is done just to get plex and 10% for ships, the game turns into a job. By reducing the amount carriers can make, there will be alot more effort required to grind a plex and such more players will leave the game. Over time, this new lack of demand will reduce plex prices to a more affordable level and those remainding will enjoy once again affordable plex prices. When the plex price finally falls, carrier ratting will once again be feasible.
Real nice plan CCP. I hope it works.
More isk means more expensive items and ships.
it doesn't work that way, and what you describe is actually the thing that bothers most people but shouldn't/
They think that their income is going down but everything else will cost the same. but it won't, the reason we got here is because soooo many people could make soooo much isk that prices went up and up. They buffed the escalation rat which made DED loot from 8/10s and 10/10s plummet in price, meaning that you had to do more escalations to make the same isk you used to and people who just sold the escalaitons made less.
Now escalations will be worth more. Deadspace loot with eventually be worth more. Pirate BS blueprints will eventually be worth more. The loot you get from Faction spawns in havens and sanctums will eventually be worth more. The actual isk in you wallet will be worth more.
CCp screwed up with income, and it should not have had to come to this, BUT there are good things that will eventually come from this specific change and the changes coming to escalations and pirate BS build costs.
It's actually a very good time to be a null sec ratter. |

Lhord GankBang
Black Omega Security Mercenary Coalition
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:35:39 -
[356] - Quote
What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms?  Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar. |

Kendarr
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:40 -
[357] - Quote
Thomasina wrote:Kendarr wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends. Your not my friend! MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'( *You're How are you going to get iskies for your toonies now?
Rob the corp wallets. Remember this was CCP's fault not mine.
Zebra-Corp
|

Krypleria
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:51 -
[358] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it Lets summarize it. The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX costs and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant. The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
True... but guess what... these changes dont affect ISK sinks in any way .... so maybe they should put those economists to actually PLAY the game to understand it ? |

Logan Jakal
Blue Sun. DARKNESS.
27
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:53 -
[359] - Quote
Spoilers of the latest CCP meeting http://i.imgur.com/pAbUhwA.jpg |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:37:59 -
[360] - Quote
Lhord GankBang wrote:What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms?  Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar.
Imagine the rage IMO it should just be less effective, but nerf should only affect fighters vs rats, not PVP aspect. |
|

Count Basie Thellere
The Pantheon. Cohortes Triarii
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:38:18 -
[361] - Quote
Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. |

Kid Herojuana
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:38:23 -
[362] - Quote
Thank you for nerfing the active gameplay of fighters yet again. <3 I was already getting bored with actually having to look at the screen. Now AFK VNI the king of null sec ratting again!
Trainee: Guys, I have an idea. Lets make engaging content for players not to AFK orbit rocks 23/7.
CCP 1: You're fired.
CCP 2: Finally that guy is gone. You know guys, I love the VNI hull. Lets redesign it, slap on few nice skins on it and delete all that the pesky trainee added.
CCP 1: Would you like to become a partner? |

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:38:36 -
[363] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. youre forgetting one important factor remember why we said demand decreases in the first place in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:39:56 -
[364] - Quote
Krypleria wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good. yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold they like seeing their wealth increase people with wealth dont stockpile isk they stockpile plex when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it Lets summarize it. The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX costs and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant. The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team. True... but guess what... these changes dont affect ISK sinks in any way .... so maybe they should put those econimists to actually PLAY the game to understand it ?
'Well they decrase the ISK faucet. That is the second way to deal with the problem. While this change is strange to me and it SHOULD NOT affect PVP IMO, the ratting overall needs a nerf. Or they should just increase the transaction tax even more I guess to buff the ISK sink. |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16067
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:39:56 -
[365] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex.
In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless.
A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY).
Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time.
|

Hengle Teron
We Shoot Things. Sometimes
62860
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:41:13 -
[366] - Quote
So if isk faucet vs sink is too high, why not return isk sink to markets?
Adding like a 1% npc broker fee on citadels would help somewhat restore the isk sink of markets, while still keeping citadel as the more desirable option compared to stations. |

iFars
Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:41:16 -
[367] - Quote
The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office. |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:41:40 -
[368] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. youre forgetting one important factor remember why we said demand decreases in the first place in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it
The demand is constant, I dont see legions of players leaving the game anytime soon. |

James Kestrel
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:42:25 -
[369] - Quote
Do you really think this change will raise sales of Plex? This changes will not fix economy, it will only raise gap between rich and poor players, like always. Did you consider full server wipe? Maybe it will help.
You should nerf all that smartbombers and afk VNI/Ishtar ratters... they are big issue, not carriers or supers.
vid maker **| **swagmaster | "Don't be yolo and fly solo!"
|

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:42:47 -
[370] - Quote
iFars wrote:The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office.
Actually they dont live better. They live worse in fact. Having more ISK is nice, but the VALUE of ISK is going down. YOur purchasing power is going down. And people not ratting in carriers or supers would gradually get poorer and poorer, because their ISK will have lesser value. |
|

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:42:50 -
[371] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again. youre forgetting one important factor remember why we said demand decreases in the first place in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it The demand is constant, I dont see legions of players leaving the game anytime soon. well that remains to be seen
|

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2905
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:20 -
[372] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.
There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.
Well done ccp.
Carriers are neither AFK nor passive income.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
132
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:37 -
[373] - Quote
Lhord GankBang wrote:What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms?  Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar.
Yep, I spoke to that very idea earlier.
I ask the dreaded coding/programming question...."How hard could it be?"
Can someone hand me an umbrella for the shitstorm about to hit me?
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Fl4chz4ng3
Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:50 -
[374] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:As always wh people will be happy and the others not
Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions
Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
My Rattlesnake does 40 and can MJD out of trouble.
This is still ridiculous compare to the sp, isk, risk you invest compare to a carrier/super ratting ! |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16067
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:43:53 -
[375] - Quote
Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game.
Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad.
While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know".
Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. |

Faruzen en Divalone
Black Wings Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:44:20 -
[376] - Quote
James Kestrel wrote:Do you really think this change will raise sales of Plex? This changes will not fix economy, it will only raise gap between rich and poor players, like always. Did you consider full server wipe? Maybe it will help.
You should nerf all that smartbombers and afk VNI/Ishtar ratters... they are big issue, not carriers or supers.
Full server wipe. I WOULD SOOO LOVE THAT !!
But its a dream that cant come true I guess :/ |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16067
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:44:40 -
[377] - Quote
Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:As always wh people will be happy and the others not
Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions
Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
My Rattlesnake does 40 and can MJD out of trouble. This is still ridiculous compare to the sp, isk, risk you invest compare to a carrier/super ratting !
Which is why it was dumb to rely on a carrier...
|

Geanos
The Scope Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:45:33 -
[378] - Quote
The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at what, 15 minutes? So if you add a formula like this for carrier/super ratting - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future.
I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with ta on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK". |

Sam Khanid
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:45:48 -
[379] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
What a horrible, horrible idea--terrible. Why, it's just dumb. There are many, many ways to go around this nerf and make just as much as before, but to hit carriers like this is just a trash idea. DUMB. |

Weeman Utama
Pure Avarice. Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:46:50 -
[380] - Quote
Nerfing the ship because of PvE instead of making smart changes to the PvE itself? Pretty typical of the bumbling CCP of late. Also a 30% nerf to something "a bit too effective in PvP now" seems excessive Probably not the best idea to announce this on the same day as you randomly pause the training of most of eve. But thanks for the four days notice. |
|

Armark Bether
NRDS Anonyme PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
18
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:04 -
[381] - Quote
Heh, I understand why these changes are necessary...
But still, REEEEEEEEEEEE~ |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3379
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:39 -
[382] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex. In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless. A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY). Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time.
If they want to stop the gravy train, they can also remove the auto drone aggro vs rats so nobody can run multiple anoms at the same time. Those also generate extra escalations devaluing them. |

Azn Assassin
Dissidence Dawn The-Culture
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:45 -
[383] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/zc4ORN9.jpg |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
132
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:47:45 -
[384] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol.
Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know.
Flavour of the Month, indeed.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

alex tow
Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:48:06 -
[385] - Quote
Total Newbie wrote:alex tow wrote:Total Newbie wrote:alex tow wrote:It seems that a lot of player forgot how eve was 10 years ago...it's now really way too easy to buyt a capital ship/super cap....you can make 100/200/400m isk/h now where you had 90m with a carrier ratting in null years ago....but well, now it seems that people want to have easy farming....contrary to the rorqual....I think it's a good nerf. Make Capital ships CAPITAL again. LOL and it has nothing to do with pulling out Mr. Visa and buying/selling plex, right? Of course it does....why do you think I would forget this ? I hate the plex price which encourage to buy some to get isk, I hate skill extractors and injectors and I HATE the capital ship becoming standard ships. You obviously dont fly one. If/when you do, don't expect to use it for it's main purpose (Battle), because the Aids/Time required to get to a fight isn't worth it. You can hop into your trusty Interceptor and play Frigates online with the rest of the folks
*sigh*.....I won't even try to talk about that since you won't listen so yes you are right, now please go back whining without trying to understand what people talk about. |

Logan Jakal
Blue Sun. DARKNESS.
27
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:48:35 -
[386] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:iFars wrote:The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office. Actually they dont live better. They live worse in fact. Having more ISK is nice, but the VALUE of ISK is going down. Your purchasing power is going down. And people not ratting in carriers or supers would gradually get poorer and poorer, because their ISK will have lesser value if everyone has a lot of it.
#MakeNewEdenGreatAgain |

HellGate fr
54
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:48:36 -
[387] - Quote
Real men farm with dreads. |

Burberry Muffin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:49:13 -
[388] - Quote
James Kestrel wrote:Do you really think this change will raise sales of Plex? This changes will not fix economy, it will only raise gap between rich and poor players, like always. Did you consider full server wipe? Maybe it will help.
You should nerf all that smartbombers and afk VNI/Ishtar ratters... they are big issue, not carriers or supers.
We all must nerf CCP they r highly active these days with stupidity..... iam sry for my offensive language but too much **** for small amount of time (u know this pirate ships before AtT start, carrier ratting and PVP, rorq mining, citadels, nos Pos soon....) The more ISKs players have the more content for PVP and other players but less real money for CCP.
    
404 error sarcasm not found |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2905
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:49:27 -
[389] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sassura wrote:[That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused.
I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it. My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?". They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there. CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived. CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen.
I cannot wait to see the outcry when the T3 changes finally come through.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
837
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:49:57 -
[390] - Quote
Good, its about time.
Carriers were oppressive in pvp (particularly in solo/small gang) and made roaming in anything larger than a dessie a hassle. Their rediculous application and damage to subcaps was basically the same thing as the sentry carriers of old, but worse. Since they had significantly higher alpha. Battleships have been capital fodder since the cap rebalance and were losing their place in the game (unless you talk about nightmare, mach, rattle, but 3 pirate BS does not mean battleships as a whole are ok). The damage reductions wont make it as easy as it used to be to roam in BS but it might be possible to tank a carrier in a marauder now. Still a step in the right direction.
Now, if CCP could make it to where a battleship could lock things faster than a carrier, thatd be great (looks at almost all caldari battleships with their pitiful 97-118 sig resolution). Either buff sig res on battleships or nerf FSA lock time *salts the wound*
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Make the Muninn great again!
|
|

Starkiller Kashuken
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:52:09 -
[391] - Quote
Wow ccp has zero clue about there own game lets take 2 k dps away from a super whos fighters cant brake ******* 4 t2 logi just just take supers and carrier out of this game at this point cause there ******* useless anyway seeing as they cant defend them self's after this patch
way to go ccp good job knowing anything |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16069
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:52:47 -
[392] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed.
Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters.
Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)?
Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
132
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:16 -
[393] - Quote
Geanos wrote:The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at 15 minutes, right? So if you add a formula for carrier/super ratting like this - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future.
I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with a tax on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK".
You're right, server load would be negligible, as they do it right now in hisec anyway. The autotax on NPC corps...that goes to CCP does it not? I make my own corp and set corp tax at %5, that comes automatically with each tick. Add a CONCORD tax to bounties, and a year end income tax payable by personal, corporate and alliance income taxes.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Sam Khanid
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:40 -
[394] - Quote
Who hasn't experienced the sheer joy and glee of catching a carrier ratting an anom too? Whose going to want to take that risk vs reward gamble now? Just such a novice, unthoughtful move. |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16069
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:52 -
[395] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Sassura wrote:[That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused.
I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it. My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?". They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there. CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived. CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen. I cannot wait to see the outcry when the T3 changes finally come through.
Not enough popcorn in the world for that one. 
|

ArmyOfMe
Hull Breach.
635
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:54:03 -
[396] - Quote
       All those goon tears, all worth it 
GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
|

michaeltward
Digital Chess Session Moral Ambiguity
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:55:20 -
[397] - Quote
Carriers are already kind of suck in pvp as it is especially in wormholes where they are in low nubers and ecm screws them so hard so congrats on making them completely useless. |

realmkiller
Occidendi Apocalypse Now.
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:57:11 -
[398] - Quote
Its CCP's way to screw over its player base and try and make some more money before everyone quits and starts playing star citizen when its released |

Dengdeng Xiao
Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:57:36 -
[399] - Quote
so, i see ....this game is, if you don't have three or four account ,then you fxxk off ?
why you just nerf carriers? the mutiple players using smart bomb ratting has been ignored? let em go?
ok, ccp, u win .
i'm out. |

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
78
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:59:13 -
[400] - Quote
realmkiller wrote:Its CCP's way to screw over its player base and try and make some more money before everyone quits and starts playing star citizen when its released thats how it seems to me its called a death rattle i believe |
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:00:03 -
[401] - Quote
Dengdeng Xiao wrote:so, i see ....this game is, if you don't have three or four account ,then you fxxk off ?
why you just nerf carriers? the mutiple players using smart bomb ratting has been ignored? let em go?
ok, ccp, u win .
i'm out.
Smartbomb ratting havens takes multiple characters and ONLY works on a couple of anom types (good luck smart bomb ratting a Gas Cloud Haven lol). |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
133
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:00:05 -
[402] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this.
Don't be insulting because you are behind the meta. I have known about carrier ratting and super ratting for years. and have made billions on it. More people have been doing it lately, yes, but that doesn't make it Flavour of the Month. Rorquals, now that is a different story.
There's no need to be rude because you are stuck in your own little world and are afraid to try something else. I was carrier and super ratting long before carriers and fighters were changed and will continue to do so. Who knows? I may start ratting in my titan again and getting even more dank ticks.
Don't think you can look down your nose at anyone because you think your way is best though.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:01:36 -
[403] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. Don't be insulting because you are behind the meta. I have known about carrier ratting and super ratting for years. and have made billions on it. More people have been doing it lately, yes, but that doesn't make it Flavour of the Month. Rorquals, now that is a different story. There's no need to be rude because you are stuck in your own little world and are afraid to try something else. I was carrier and super ratting long before carriers and fighters were changed and will continue to do so. Who knows? I may start ratting in my titan again and getting even more dank ticks. Don't think you can look down your nose at anyone because you think your way is best though.
Thought I'd stop by and highlight the one part that makes something FOTM. |

Sam Khanid
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:02:03 -
[404] - Quote
It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins...
Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen. |

James Kestrel
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:02:45 -
[405] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex. In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless. A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY). Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time.
vid maker **| **swagmaster | "Don't be yolo and fly solo!"
|

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3379
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:32 -
[406] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol.
CCP essentially gave us a paint suppliers to paint them in corners every time they create a gravy train with skill injectors too. Every time they mess up, a large number of player can inject up to the new fad and milk it while it used to be a rather slow process unless you hit the bazaar for a character someone somehow pre-trained for that new niche by accident or were trained for it already for some reason. To avoid backlash from the player base, they really need to get the balancing engine into high gear soon so they can intervene on any badly balanced things they create faster than months after people invested into it. |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:37 -
[407] - Quote
Finally, the guide to how CCP Developers create this game:
http://i.imgur.com/NTsj8ts.png |

Niraia
Starcakes Shadow Cartel
531
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:38 -
[408] - Quote
What is wrong with you?
GÖÑ
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:38 -
[409] - Quote
Sam Khanid wrote:It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins...
Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen.
You didn't know that CCP does multiple nerfs at a time? Like they have since 2003?
You must be really new lol.
|

wertolot
Wertolot-Yutani corp. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
23
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:46 -
[410] - Quote
-¦-ï -+-¦ -ü-+-+-ü-+-¦-+-ï -¦-+-¦-¦-é-î -+ -+-¦ -ê-¦-¦ -¦-+-¦-Ç-¦-¦... -¦-ï -ì-é-+ -¦-+-¦-¦-+-¦-+-+ -+ -ì-é-+ -¦-¦-ü-+-+-+-¦, -ì-é-+ -+-+-Ç-+-¦-¦-Ç-¦-+-â-é-î -+-¦-¦-+-+-+-+-¦-+-+. -¦-Ç-+-é-+-¦-â -+-¦ -¦-+-ü-+-Ç-+-+-+-+-¦-¦-é-¦, -â-ü-é-Ç-¦-+-¦-¦-¦-é-¦ -+-â-¦-+-+-ç-+-â-Ä -Ç-¦-ü-ü-+-¦-â-Ä -¦-+-ü-¦-Ç-+-+-+-+-¦-å-+-Ä -+-¦ -Ä-é-â-¦-¦. -¦-ü-+-+ -¦-ï -à-+-é-+-é-¦ -ç-é-+ -é-+ -ü-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î -ü-+-Ç-+-ü-+-é-¦ -â -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-+-¦, -¦-ü-+-+ -¦-ü-é-î -¦-¦-¦-¦-Å -é-+ -+-Ç-+-¦-+-¦-+-¦ -é-+ -¦-¦ -+-+-¦-+-+ -Ç-¦-ê-+-é-î -+-ï -¦-¦-+ -+-+-¦-ü-¦-¦-¦-¦-+, -+-ï -+-¦-Ç-¦-¦-+ -¦ -ì-é-â -+-¦-Ç-â -¦ -+-¦ -¦-ï, -+-ï -¦-+-¦-¦-+ -¦ -ì-é-+-+ -+-+-Ç-¦ -¦ -+-¦ -¦-ï, -+-ï -+-â-ç-ê-¦ -+-+-¦-¦-+ -ç-é-+ -+ -¦-¦-¦ -+-â-¦-+-+ -ü-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î, -+-¦-+ -+-¦ -+-+-ä-+-¦-â -é-¦-¦ -¦-¦-¦ -¦-¦-+, -¦-ï -+-+-¦-¦-é-¦ -â-¦-é-+ -¦ -+-ï -+-ü-é-¦-+-¦-+-ü-Å -¦-¦-+ -+-+-Ç-¦, -¦-+-Å -¦-¦-ü -ì-é-+ -Ç-¦-¦-+-é-¦ -¦-+-Å -+-¦-ü -ì-é-+ -ç-¦-ü-é-î -¦-+-+-+-+. -Ç-¦-ü-ü-¦-¦-¦-+-é-¦ -+ -+-Ç-+-¦-+-¦-+-¦-à -+-+-+ -ç-¦-¦-+ -¦-ï -+-ï-é-¦-¦-é-¦-ü-î -¦-+-¦-+-é-î-ü-Å -+ -+-ï -+-+-+-+-¦-¦-+ -¦-¦-+. |
|

Aernir Ridley
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:04:12 -
[411] - Quote
Just... no. Look, the training time to get into any capital ship should justify their increased damage over subcaps (which in the grand scheme of things isn't really that much when you take into account how easy it is to kill fighters now). Also, while I can understand that super ratting may produce a relatively large increase in money gain, normal carriers before this update still make equal to or less than incursions for a higher CPM. You're paying 2+ billion isk to make roughly 50 mil/tick (150 mil/hour) in a 100% dedicated ratting nidhoggur/thanatos with near max skills. And that's also assuming you're a part of a sov nullsec entity which can support those operations.
With this update, not only will they be easier for both characters and NCPs to kill, but fighters will also do less damage per squadron than a single gecko on any drone ship with decent bonuses. It was already getting difficult to justify using carriers in combat with the fighter sig increase, but now with a TWENTY PERCENT decrease to light fighter damage you're talking about reducing the damage of a carrier from ~2500-3000 dps to ~2000-2400. That's a MASSIVE difference (especially when you're trying to break a fleet's logistics), and with it the only advantage to flying a carrier over a subcap will be their ability to tank enormous amounts of damage. Please for the love of god do not further kill the effectiveness of carriers!
"For most people, the sky's the limit... For those who love aviation, the sky, is home."
-Cheers! :D
|

cameron123 oneil
UNITAS. ChaosTheory.
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:06:00 -
[412] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
The way you are going why don't you just remove all caps I didn't train for MONTHS to get vni-rattlesnake ticks with my carrier |

Blaad Booyashaka
Hotline K162 The Clown Car
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:07:05 -
[413] - Quote
Second good balance change in one relasse? Holy **** CCP, I forgive you pausing my skill queues. |

Sam Khanid
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:07:06 -
[414] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sam Khanid wrote:It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins...
Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen. You didn't know that CCP does multiple nerfs at a time? Like they have since 2003? You must be really new lol.
I don't see them nerf a ship in multiple capacities often, and by such huge numbers--when does that happen? |

Wayne Silk
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:08:14 -
[415] - Quote
CCP are u on coffee break ??? |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
134
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:08:14 -
[416] - Quote
No it would be FOTM if it had NEVER been a viable source before, like the Rorqual situation. Carriers and Supers have ALWAYS been a viable source of income, but the game changed to make the level of investment much easier to handle; skill injectors, low ship prices, etc. If no one had ever done it before and now all the cool kids do it, that's FOTM. Like a one hit wonder band. THAT is FOTM. Lowering the investment level to get into a profit making device is just opening a PROVEN income stream to more people.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Mossyblog Barnes
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:09:11 -
[417] - Quote
Imho you're basing a lot of bad product management decisions of quantitative metrics. If you bothered to look at this more holistically you'd likely rationalise the events of income increases to be more focused on a number of contributing events - specifically microtransaction(s).
The Paradox of Thrift comes to mind here where you apparently aren't really factoring in player behaviours (qualitative). Some alliances and coalitions are right now actually coming out from under a "hoarding" behaviour, whereby they have been for the better part of month instructing members to "Krabbing" in order to get ready for larger PVP content next month.
Further to this, you have issues around CCP's introduction to microtransaction behaviour such as PLEX. This, in turn, has created a serious impact on the Eve economy on all product line(s). Moreover to the point the skill injector changes, in turn, has pushed pricing out further.
So now when you look at the said graph you've got a number of contributing variables that result in players likely more focused on PVE has given that's a likely easier route to liquidity in ISK which in turn feeds the aforementioned points (cause and effect).
Subtle effects introduced by CCP also IMHO hint strongly that you folks are opting towards removing the "Plex to Play" instead of heading towards "Pay to play". Things like selling Plex in a bundle of 240 via player purchases but then selling content such as skins for 250. You're effectively goading your player base to over buy in order to purchase, so either a player pays for the 500 ISK bundle or they pay 240 and 100 resulting in a 90 remainder. Its a form of economic affordance that's obviously similar to retail channels who put in place "minimum spend" targets on consumers.
The point I'm making is it's obvious you're attempting to draw further income from your player base in order to offset whatever investments you may be having as a company in either Eve Online or other product lines you're making.
Here's the reality though, you're not growing your market share at the moment and with these ongoing changes in passive income you're imposing a negative effect on the existing market share you have (therefore likely replenishing the market is less inclined).
Rorq mining is volatile at the moment due to anxiety about its changes (see 'Excavator' Mining Drone pricing indicative of its anxiety). Given your max reality for a Rorqual, a miner is approx 150m ISK per hour you in turn as a player may seek an alternative stream - in this case Super Ratting. De-invest in the Mining and re-invest back into PVE, but your buy-in is around 24billion+ for said super. This, in turn, means you'd need to grind for a month or maybe two in order to pay that investment back before you actually generate positive ISK.
Factor in now the risk(s) associated with super rating which is quite high, you've now got to then focus in around how larger corporation/alliances/coalitions protect their members within systems. In doing this they, in turn, localise their deployment strategies to ensure players centre around Keepstar(s) for responsive fleet strategies.
So what you graph don't show is Keepstar to System ratio(s) and where Super Ratting vs Deaths, as when you centre around these qualitative points you begin to have a better understanding of actual player behaviour(s) and why "super nerf" is required.
You haven't argued this point, instead, you've taken a bad sample of data and said something like "My dog barks loudly, therefore Cars need to be nerfed"... how do these two points relate? and suppressing the virtual economy right now is simply an incentive to de-invest play-time in the game.
Three months from now lets look at player login(s) per hour and compare results, I'll predict you'll see a reduction based on this ongoing behaviour to sweep the ISK creation.
Effectively you're suffering from the same spiral Ultima Online suffered when it introduced the Black Dye Tub - You've created a butterfly effect and you're imho not self-ware yet.
But you'll do what you want anyway, and thankfully we have CSM's there to protect us from behaviours that aren't player favoured -.....right?
Advocates...where are they again? |

Dengdeng Xiao
Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:09:56 -
[418] - Quote
Fxxk you CCP, you'd better say "fxxk off losers we don't need you, we just need the player who have three or four accounts and ratting with the smartbomb." |

Hafwolf
StarHunt Mordus Angels
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:11:21 -
[419] - Quote
I remember when I started playing that sanctums took 3 or 4 battleships to run in a fleet. Now I can solo a sanctum or heaven in an Ishtar or most cruisers. Up the NPC stats not take down the ship stats. |

ALUCARD 1208
The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition
458
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:12:31 -
[420] - Quote
CCP your new cash cow of extractors and injectors have caused this before them there was a natural progression as people trained into things.
Now we have your little baby and anyone can be in anything whenever they want, whatever becomes the highest isk source in game people will just extract and inject into or make alts and inject them to that.
The above is probably what you want to milk the already dwindling player base even more before the lights go out please get rid of the cancer guys like:-
Sean Decker- VP and ex EA Maria Sayans- Marketing exec and ex EA
since you have been taking on ex EA employees the game has gone to **** with so many micro transactions and nerfs to people incomes to try and force them to buy more plex with $$$ than with isk. And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub.
BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
|
|

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
134
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:12:40 -
[421] - Quote
CCP, if you are concerned with the money in the game, take the money away, don't mess with the revenue stream. Sheesh cut off our heads to cure a hangnail.
Tax our income appropriately to our income levels, that's one way to keep balance.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Fl4chz4ng3
Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra
18
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:13:30 -
[422] - Quote
If i told you that making more money in null-sec is allowing me to have more accounts?
More accounts means more plex used More plex used means more money for you
You nerf the hell out of ratting with capital you lost at least 2 accounts
BTW you should change the forum section name "feature" is not really accurate...
Fl4 |

Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:14:32 -
[423] - Quote
Mossyblog Barnes wrote:Imho you're basing a lot of bad product management decisions of quantitative metrics. If you bothered to look at this more holistically you'd likely rationalise the events of income increases to be more focused on a number of contributing events - specifically microtransaction(s).
The Paradox of Thrift comes to mind here where you apparently aren't really factoring in player behaviours (qualitative). Some alliances and coalitions are right now actually coming out from under a "hoarding" behaviour, whereby they have been for the better part of month instructing members to "Krabbing" in order to get ready for larger PVP content next month.
Further to this, you have issues around CCP's introduction to microtransaction behaviour such as PLEX. This, in turn, has created a serious impact on the Eve economy on all product line(s). Moreover to the point the skill injector changes, in turn, has pushed pricing out further.
So now when you look at the said graph you've got a number of contributing variables that result in players likely more focused on PVE has given that's a likely easier route to liquidity in ISK which in turn feeds the aforementioned points (cause and effect).
Subtle effects introduced by CCP also IMHO hint strongly that you folks are opting towards removing the "Plex to Play" instead of heading towards "Pay to play". Things like selling Plex in a bundle of 240 via player purchases but then selling content such as skins for 250. You're effectively goading your player base to over buy in order to purchase, so either a player pays for the 500 ISK bundle or they pay 240 and 100 resulting in a 90 remainder. Its a form of economic affordance that's obviously similar to retail channels who put in place "minimum spend" targets on consumers.
The point I'm making is it's obvious you're attempting to draw further income from your player base in order to offset whatever investments you may be having as a company in either Eve Online or other product lines you're making.
Here's the reality though, you're not growing your market share at the moment and with these ongoing changes in passive income you're imposing a negative effect on the existing market share you have (therefore likely replenishing the market is less inclined).
Rorq mining is volatile at the moment due to anxiety about its changes (see 'Excavator' Mining Drone pricing indicative of its anxiety). Given your max reality for a Rorqual, a miner is approx 150m ISK per hour you in turn as a player may seek an alternative stream - in this case Super Ratting. De-invest in the Mining and re-invest back into PVE, but your buy-in is around 24billion+ for said super. This, in turn, means you'd need to grind for a month or maybe two in order to pay that investment back before you actually generate positive ISK.
Factor in now the risk(s) associated with super rating which is quite high, you've now got to then focus in around how larger corporation/alliances/coalitions protect their members within systems. In doing this they, in turn, localise their deployment strategies to ensure players centre around Keepstar(s) for responsive fleet strategies.
So what you graph don't show is Keepstar to System ratio(s) and where Super Ratting vs Deaths, as when you centre around these qualitative points you begin to have a better understanding of actual player behaviour(s) and why "super nerf" is required.
You haven't argued this point, instead, you've taken a bad sample of data and said something like "My dog barks loudly, therefore Cars need to be nerfed"... how do these two points relate? and suppressing the virtual economy right now is simply an incentive to de-invest play-time in the game.
Three months from now lets look at player login(s) per hour and compare results, I'll predict you'll see a reduction based on this ongoing behaviour to sweep the ISK creation.
Effectively you're suffering from the same spiral Ultima Online suffered when it introduced the Black Dye Tub - You've created a butterfly effect and you're imho not self-ware yet.
But you'll do what you want anyway, and thankfully we have CSM's there to protect us from behaviours that aren't player favoured -.....right?
Advocates...where are they again?
Pretty damn good. Wouldn't it also be simple to take the materiel requirement to build something and increase it? Make the materials for building (minerals and reactions) far greater?
|

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3379
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:14:39 -
[424] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote: And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub.
PLEX price will always adjust to what people can or want to pay for them in ISK. |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
134
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:14:44 -
[425] - Quote
Fl4chz4ng3 wrote:If i told you that making more money in null-sec is allowing me to have more accounts?
More accounts means more plex used More plex used means more money for you
You nerf the hell out of ratting with capital you lost at least 2 accounts
BTW you should change the forum section name "feature" is not really accurate...
Fl4
LOL yeah it should be "SURPRIZE BUTTSECKS TODAY"
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Ezio Sotken
nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:15:27 -
[426] - Quote
I decided to do some quick math.
My current thanatos for ratting does 2883.7 DPS as shown ingame. With a 20% drop, I expect that DPS number to fall to 2306.
Also, my average tick is just shy of 50 mil. I expect to see average ticks of 40 mil. Combine that with a corp tax of 12.5%, I am looking at about 36.8 mil average ticks after taxes. That is just BARELY better than a ishtar. So, I now ask myself, what is the point?
I have perfect ishtar skills already, so why bother with a almost perfect carrier anymore? IMO Waste of skillpoints and time getting ot Fighters V, and I have Gall CArrier V half done. |

Burberry Muffin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:17:54 -
[427] - Quote
If this changes pass, i will unsub and extract my 4acounts. Im done! Im fcking serious. Ill gave a lot love, money, and time to fly capitals.
howght! |

Elliott Spitzer
Sphincter Inc. Coalition of the Unfortunate
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:18:12 -
[428] - Quote
The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work.
So instead of pissing off 1/4 of nullsec players, let's **** off all of them?
|

FT Cold
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry. Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
106
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:18:21 -
[429] - Quote
Awesome changes. A good step in the right direction. |

ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1908
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:19:59 -
[430] - Quote
I am cleaning up this thread give me a few minutes here.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
|

Dengdeng Xiao
Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:32:17 -
[431] - Quote
CCP, do you really think there is no bad affection about the multiple players using smartbomb ratting ? You are forcing players who only have one account to leave. Wish you living in your dreamland and have fun! I can't stand your stupid decision anymore. |

rhiload Feron-drake
TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED
132
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:32:53 -
[432] - Quote
im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap. |

Niraia
Starcakes Shadow Cartel
531
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:34:44 -
[433] - Quote
rhiload Feron-drake wrote:im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap.
This. Fixing missions was too hard? Maybe you need new developers.
GÖÑ
|

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
886
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:35:29 -
[434] - Quote
I have no skin in this game as I'm not a carrier ratter, but it does seem like these are some pretty heavy-handed hits. Maybe instead have smaller reductions in damage, but further increase the rate at which fighters are targeted by rats, while also reducing the time between issuing commands.
Also, since there's concern about ISK faucets, Incursions remain a pretty significant source of ISK when compared to the number of people who run them and the relative degree of safety. Why not move 10% or so of the ISK payouts from Incursions into LP?
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
|

Creecher Virpio
Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:36:20 -
[435] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Lightbringer wrote:April was 2 months ago. bit late for a joke.
I do wonder if CCP even play their own game. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now., so now they do no damage before instantly dieing because of the previous nerf? :D RIP. How do they go from overpowered to no damage if they lose 20% DPS. Seems reasonable to me.
i know you hate carriers because you cant fight them in your t1 frigates, but this is a terrible change for people who actually fly these ships. |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
135
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:36:32 -
[436] - Quote
rhiload Feron-drake wrote:im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap.
Sorry to disagree Rhiload, but the answer to the economy's problem of accumulated and generated wealth is not stopping the revenue stream, it should be managing it. By clawing back the amount of risk free wealth, player generated wealth through bounties and insurance payments, you will have a more balanced and fair to everyone system.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Cant tell Ifserious
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:36:40 -
[437] - Quote
Stop making isk making and pve worse and worse in already dated and **** pve system. No it will not make people buy plex instead of spending extra time making money. People will just Quit. i guess it will just be dreads online if there is even ne one left to play. |

Mute Karimar
Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:37:15 -
[438] - Quote
When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier.
So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier? |

Texas Queens
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:38:49 -
[439] - Quote
rhiload Feron-drake wrote:im afraid your overestimating carriers/supers. they will not be strong as you think as they are now, its better to just increase the HP of the rats in havens and or decrease bounties. as you've seen in recent large scale fights, carriers dont win fights, dreads do, and this will be even more the case as dread dominance will prevail over any cap.
Its a shame that they wont listen to player feedback and will just do what they want anyway, why this is posted in the 'Feedback Center' is beyond me. |

Dengdeng Xiao
Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:38:58 -
[440] - Quote
so...why you delete my reply ? |
|

Tribal Trogdor
Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance.
41
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:39:15 -
[441] - Quote
Fighters could do with a slight nerf to their alpha, but hitting sustained dps is kind of garbage. Keeping sustained dps is already hard with how easy they are to kill now.
You didn't want to affect other people doing anoms, which is why the focus was only on carrier/super ratting, correct? There was no other way to do this? What issues did you come across when looking into other solutions? Could the types of rats in high end anoms not be swapped to include some more sig tanking cruisers or such? What about spawn locations? Could waves in the higher end anoms not be scattered with somethink like group A,B,C spawing 50km in different directions with rats of various engagment ranges, where travel time would lower income? Most other larger ships should be able to hit that far no problem with longer range weapons/sentries.
The issue is predictability. People know exactly what is going to spawn where and when it will happen. It makes it too easy to do stuff like smartbomb ratting, boson ratting, and carrier/super ratting. What if one time you did a haven and the second wave was a bunch of short range battleships, the next time was a mix of long and short range ones, the third time was a large group of battlecruisers, and the forth time was a handful of bs, but four to five tackle frigs. Also want to buy random LOL HIC rats to keep people on their toes :D
This kind of stuff would get you similar results, without specifically hitting a specific type of ship, that has negative effects on application in other situations. Unfortunately we get all of 3 days to have this kind of discussion vov |

Natheniel
Mostly Sober The Bastard Cartel
131
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:40:03 -
[442] - Quote
CCP Needs to work on the main issue in the game and that is the unlimited SUPPLY of isk. There is such a thing as 'over farming' and it should apply to a region. Each region needs to have a limited supply of minerals and isk that can be generated, if a large entity is hitting that cap, anoms don't spawn, minerals turn to garbage, things deteriorate until the amount of farming is reduced to a sustainable level. That way it forces large entities to instead of concentrate in one unlimited isk fountain area they spread out and are forced to take more space, thus creating more content. It also lets CCP set a target isk generation cap that they are comfortable with without screwing over smaller groups.
"Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:40:33 -
[443] - Quote
Mute Karimar wrote:When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier.
So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier?
I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that".
No they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints  |

ALUCARD 1208
The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition
458
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:40:57 -
[444] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote: And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub.
PLEX price will always adjust to what people can or want to pay for them in ISK.
My points still stand so this is how its going at minute.
Yes plex prices may come down but cost of things are going up so your either stuck with having to grind more of your limited playtime or buy more plex and further lining ccps pockets just to get the isk for that new faction battleship that ccp has so kindly increased the build cost on.
There will also become a point that sp farming is the highest income so more people will make alts for that further lining ccps pockets with subs/plex/multiple account training but this will have a bubble were as the supply is bigger than demand causing prices to tumble and will lead to unsubs.
While at first the sp farms look good on the PCU it actually masks the real amount of players that currently play and looks attractive as ccp are trying to sell the company and dont give a **** after the sale when the bubble burst and the buyers realise the games gone to **** because of stupid decisions that have killed the economy.
Also using the metric of delve is also stupid alot of regions look in line but delve sticks out you want to know why that is ccp? because goons have 20k+ of the most resourceful members the game has stacked into one region of course its going to look like that
BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
|

Jonas Skypilot
Banished Braindead Zombies Circle-Of-Two
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:42:03 -
[445] - Quote
Why dafuq don`t u nerf AFK ratting and WH ratting and Multiboxer instead of hard working Carrier/Superpilot. Did u ever rat in a super CCP? It is ******* cancer, but 80+ Mil Ticks are worth it, but not worth anymore after nerft! Or do you want that so many Superpilots train into rorqs and start mining. I see the next Rorq nerf incoming cause there is too much isk in ores.
CCPlease  |

Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
135
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:42:30 -
[446] - Quote
Why don't you make a change to the banking system as well? Let players choose which CCP/NPC corp sponsored bank their isk wallet is held at and regulate the banking system. Allow for a modest interest rate, but also allow for market fluctuations, "corporate scandals" (Hello Lore Department I'm looking at you) and rising/falling stock indexes be a revenue sink for players, corporations and alliances.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
|

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3379
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:42:38 -
[447] - Quote
Mute Karimar wrote:When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier.
So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier?
The poweer curve is supposed to be linear increase in power for exponential cost increase. Gaining "just 20%" is supposed to cost you a lot of extra. |

Star Desu
Pure Avarice. Pandemic Legion
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:43:58 -
[448] - Quote
Guess CCP's management and design team really don't want people playing this game anymore |

Dengdeng Xiao
Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:44:05 -
[449] - Quote
CCP, do you really like players who have three or four accounts and using smartbomb ratting everytime? you like em? |

Jalon Kaladreel
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:10 -
[450] - Quote
lol. Has answer in pocket to make pve harder. Nerfs pvp harder instead. Wtf ccp. Stupid. Carriers do not need another nerf lol. |
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:26 -
[451] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote: And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub.
PLEX price will always adjust to what people can or want to pay for them in ISK. My points still stand so this is how its going at minute. Yes plex prices may come down but cost of things are going up so your either stuck with having to grind more of your limited playtime or buy more plex and further lining ccps pockets just to get the isk for that new faction battleship that ccp has so kindly increased the build cost on.
This is not true. If you are doing anomalies you are going to get escalations (less often then now, but you will get them). And you can sell it or run it, and with this change + the escalation nerf the prices of the things you get should be MUCH higher eventually.
The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time.
It's like my role in this thread is to explain to other ratters that "it's going to be ok, just breathe" lol. This is a good change at the end of the day, it will make things easier for all of us who rat for an EVE-living.
|

Mute Karimar
Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:35 -
[452] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints 
I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that?
And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over? |

Ezio Sotken
nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:41 -
[453] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Mute Karimar wrote:When I compare my almost maxed Rattle-skills and the ticks I generate with that with my mediocre carrier-skills and their ticks that 20% nerf actually will make it more worthwhile for me to go in a Rattle than to bring the Carrier.
So I gotta second the question asked often here yet: Why not remove the damn carriers at all? Or just sell me a damn SKIN for lets say 60EUR that makes my Rattle look like a carrier? I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints 
Seeing as the average, semi-skilled carrier will make no better than a Ishtar on the average, and a max carrier wwill only make 5-10m more it removes the entire incentive to run a carrier for ratting. Might as well all go back to AFK VNI's and ishtars at this rate. |

Mip ONE
Ghost Pixel IT'S ONLY PIXELS
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:42 -
[454] - Quote
NERF CCP !!! |

Elliott Spitzer
Sphincter Inc. Coalition of the Unfortunate
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:45:58 -
[455] - Quote
Elliott Spitzer wrote:The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work. So instead of pissing off 1/4 of nullsec players, let's **** off all of them?
Disregard, I misread what you posted, nothing to see here. |

Winter Lee Wintershadow
Therapy. Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:46:06 -
[456] - Quote
OK here is my 5 cents...
For years I have always believed that this game is a bit odd, it is the people that I play with that have kept me subed.
Now lets take a look at my naive way of playing eve:
Always work towards something bigger - Since I started playing I always wanted to get into something bigger, from a cruiser to a BC and now I am working into perfecting my skills into faxes for one toon and super carrier to the other.
This takes years (or enough $) to train to. Not to mention the
I strongly believe that CCP is encouraging people to multi box.
Let's say my current goal is to get 30 bill for a super. At 135 isk per hour ratting with one carrier account this would take me 222 hours of ratting. Ratting, is IMHO the best way for someone that doesn't have 6 hours a day to play.
Being that said if I wanted to reach this goal I'll have to average 200m a day for 150 days if I have 1 or 2 hours to play the game and want to throw some pvp here and there till I can reach my goal.
Now I also have the option of buying plex, which lets say to get those same 30 bill it would be roughly $350 that I can make in a day of work. To some people it might be 2 or 3 days to some people more.
So here are my two options:
1. If I don't want to spend 222 hours mindlessly ratting, easy, multi box and pay CCP.
2. If I want to reach my goal in one day, easy give CCP $350.
Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder?
|

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3381
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:47:32 -
[457] - Quote
Mute Karimar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints  I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over?
The price tag on that rattlesnake will change pretty soon sir. |

JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:48:01 -
[458] - Quote
Mute Karimar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints  I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over? because if they did that no one would buy pirate bses and t3cs and both of those are important to their current agenda |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:48:18 -
[459] - Quote
Elliott Spitzer wrote:Elliott Spitzer wrote:The Judge wrote:Not everyone will be happy with this change, but reducing NPC bounty payouts through a direct rebalance of carriers and supers is in the best interest of eve as a whole. Changing bounty payouts would hurt people ratting in every class of ship when carriers and supers are the main problem child. This is the best option I can see.
Keep up the great work. So instead of pissing off 1/4 of nullsec players, let's **** off all of them? Disregard, I misread what you posted, nothing to see here.
I was wondering lol, I was like ("did he get that backwards"?  |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:12 -
[460] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Mute Karimar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I stuck to my Rattlesnake the entire time because as soon as I saw the 1st Monthly Economic Report after the fighter changes and saw that HUGE spike in null sec bounties my 1st thought was "they are going to nerf that". Now they are nerfing that. I'm glad I kept my last 10 Rattlesnake blueprints  I gave my rattle to my GFs acc, that is rarely online. Will prolly take it back, cause why put an "above a bill"-ship in space if I can make better ticks in a ship that costs about half of that? And if its only about ISK-generation, why the heck doesnt CCP turn the bounty-screws, make anoms harder, but instead screws the whole shiptree-balance over? The price tag on that rattlesnake will change pretty soon sir.
I was just about to say that lol.
It seems like people are forming opinions from incomplete data. |
|

Elenahina
Agony Unleashed The Bastard Cartel
1723
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:14 -
[461] - Quote
Mister Toucher wrote:At this point you might as well just remove supers from the game.
Please gimp them more.
I would be surprisingly ok if they did.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3166
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:29 -
[462] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.
Why: We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec
I don't really have strong feelings about this change (I don't have any carrier pilots and I don't really PvE), but there is something unsettling about this.
You've isolated a very specific problem here - Carriers and supers are too strong in PvE. I would think the resolution to that very specifically defined problem should be just as specific.
"IDK, just nerf their dmg I guess," seems ham-handed.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|

Captain Mctightpants
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:36 -
[463] - Quote
Its fine. Just inject a high sec toon for incursions (which will never be nerfed) when injectors are at their highest :tinfoil:
In all seriousness making a super i spent years training and isking for to get nerfed so hard that i make less than risk free incursion runners is bull. 3 injectors and a new toon will get you 200m+ per hour.
Finally for everyone who says "this is fine" remember when they get done nerfing our income streams, they will come for yours.
First they came for the t3c, and I did not speak outGÇö Because I was not a Hamgu.
Then they came for the excavators, and I did not speak outGÇö Because I was not a Rorqual Miner.
Then they came for the fighters, and I did not speak outGÇö Because I was not a super krab.
Then they came for meGÇöand there was no one left to speak for me. |

Tobias Frank
48
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:49:50 -
[464] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote: We will continue to observe the economy
What about hiring an actual economist again? We had that before, EVE was a way more better game back then. |

ALUCARD 1208
The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition
459
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:50:07 -
[465] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time.
not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets
BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
|

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3381
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:50:30 -
[466] - Quote
Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote:
Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder?
Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats.
Now if only they could remove afk ratting... |

Mute Karimar
Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:51:27 -
[467] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: The poweer curve is supposed to be linear increase in power for exponential cost increase. Gaining "just 20%" is supposed to cost you a lot of extra.
Yeah, I know and understand that, but if I bring a ship double the prize to actually have LESS income then the curve is no curve anymore. |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:51:50 -
[468] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: The end result is a return to how it used to me, you rat, you make isk, you get an escalation and most times you don't get much but every once in awhile you get that jackpot that pays for a month or 2 of game time.
not if you dont run the escalations it will hurt the bm sale as lower chance to drop while also making demand for the bs higher than supply so fking with income makes it more of a grind to get for fleets
You know you will be able to charge more for your escalations after this right? Because they will be more valuable?
take a moment and breathe, think it through. It's not going to be that bad. Trust me I've been ratting for 10 years now, even before we had respawning anomalies.. |

ALUCARD 1208
The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition
459
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:52:34 -
[469] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote:
Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder?
Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting...
afk ratting is more of a problem anywhere else apart from delve
BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
|

Yami Tsuriel
Sudden-Impact Solyaris Chtonium
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:52:48 -
[470] - Quote
No Fun Allowed. You are nerfing fun, rewarding and high activity stuff that keeps people logging in. No wonder you are bleeding subscribers when you nerf fun things to the ground. If this goes one Eve is dying wont be a meme anymore it will become reality. Stop "fixing" things that aren't a problem and start fixing things that are like GHOSTRAINING, HIGHSEC INCURSIONS and AFK RATTING.
#CCP*GS
happymerchant.jpg |
|

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:52:57 -
[471] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote:
Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder?
Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting...
They could if they were willing to put an NPC dread in every anom 
|

Ezio Sotken
nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:53:07 -
[472] - Quote
I expect to see the following meta after this change takes affect.
1. carrier and super fleets will be put on back burner 2. Titans, dreads and fax fleets will dominate cap warfare
|

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3381
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:55:07 -
[473] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Winter Lee Wintershadow wrote:
Why is earning isk with one account getting harder and harder?
Getting lots of ISK easily only devalue the ISK itself which shaft anyone not riding the FOTM gravy train. That's why they are nerfing carriers/supers and not all ratting with a flat bounty nerf on rats. Now if only they could remove afk ratting... They could if they were willing to put an NPC dread in every anom 
That screws up ratting for everyone who can't just GTFO when the dread spawn. Remove auto aggro on drones and it's all over. The best "afk" truck become a FoF missile boat and those have limited launched load which need to be turned back on all the time. |

Geanos
The Scope Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:55:28 -
[474] - Quote
Geanos wrote:The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at 15 minutes, right? So if you add a formula for carrier/super ratting like this - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future.
I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with a tax on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK".
If you want to make it really really easy, you can add this formula at the end of tick bounty calculations, just like you do with other taxes. This means that it will apply even if the player killed just 1 rat with the carrier and the rest with other ships, but it's still better than nerfing. It's just an extra IF (if corp tax / if alliance tax / if ship class).
|

Mute Karimar
Raised By Wolves Inc DARKNESS.
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:55:39 -
[475] - Quote
That is a tempting idea... Man, I know folks who let their 5( or is it 6?) accs run their ISKtars almost 24/7. Those make money with almost zero effort I can only dream of in my carrier. And in my carrier I needa be constantly looking and clicking. No YT/YP and just checking the wallet every 20 minutes... |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3381
 |