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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 10:06:00 -
[691]
if someone needs a better proof about how stupid it is the "OMG, a queue is chars farmers weat dream"
searching "eve online" on ebay gives 31 results. 1 of them is a 28 million sp gallente char, being sold for $300. 19 of them are "mining macros" or "mining utilities"
so, macro mining is a problem 20x bigger than char farming, yet we have autorepeat on mining lasers. why do not get rid of that "macro miners most powerful tool" and instead implement a single skill queue that would benefitiate many more players withouth hurting so much the game?
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Guttripper
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.28 15:15:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Apertotes dude. read the thread before. all we want is a single skill queue.
I have read this thread and similar threads and nothing has ever come from it.
As I mentioned previously, what if CCP implemented the skill queue to allow one skill to go from level 1 to level 2 and nothing further? Would people accept this response or desire (demand) that they, "the paying customer" (blah blah blah) be allowed to single queue any combination of skills and levels? The prime example has always been <race> Battleship level 4 to level 5 while canceling the account for a month. The counterargument was if the account was canceled or suspended, then the skill stops. Would this be further work for CCP, to have the skill server constantly pinging the accounts for status? Or have the account server constantly feeding information to the skill server, telling it which accounts are active to non-active?
---
Long ago, I did not care either way if there was a skill queue system or not. Hell, I suggested that those with extended military leave or certain jobs that are away from society as a whole for great lengths of time should be allowed to have an extended queue service offered. And what were some of the replies that rubbed me the wrong way? "That is their choice - why should they get special privileges?"
So you have a family? That is your choice.
So you work twenty hours a day? That is your choice.
Server bellied-up right when you were about to change a skill? Sucks to be you I guess.
Too many people wanting things just a bit easier in the game... I am the opposite - like the whole setting of being cold and harsh, you want to succeed in Eve, then work for it.
Oh, did I mention I also proposed doubling the skill point requirements for skills in general?
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Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:34:00 -
[693]
Aside from the whole skillpoint doubling thing (), I like you already!
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 22:38:00 -
[694]
Originally by: Guttripper
Too many people wanting things just a bit easier in the game... I am the opposite - like the whole setting of being cold and harsh, you want to succeed in Eve, then work for it.
the queue has nothing to do with game dificulty. this game is hars, but not because there is no queue. it is harsh cause scamming is accepted and encouraged, cause pirating is advertised as a game feature, it is harsh because when you die, you loose a lot, it is hard cause its all based on competition with other players, and players are much more smart than npcs.
having or not having a queue doesnt make the game harsher or colder.
but if you want a cold experience, try playing EVE without map, without local, without insurance, without automatic orbits, without weapons and modules autorepeat, without npc agents, without clone jumps, and without overview. then the game would be harsh, and colder.
those are the things that make a game harsher or not, and not a simple 1 skill queue.
also, the fact you keep arguing about us wanting a longer queue later, means you really didnt understand nothing about it
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Guttripper
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.29 07:30:00 -
[695]
Originally by: Apertotes having or not having a queue doesnt make the game harsher or colder.
An example off the top of my head - having a queue would remove the choice between logging in a moment to change a skill to spending some quality time with the family. Without the queue, a pretty harsh decision if you're a hardcore gamer to being a quality family member. Those players without a family need not concern with such matters and will gain a slight benefit by being able to change skills to those that decide family comes first over an online game and let the skill lapse.
Originally by: Apertotes but if you want a cold experience, try playing EVE without map, without local, without insurance, without automatic orbits, without weapons and modules autorepeat, without npc agents, without clone jumps, and without overview. then the game would be harsh, and colder.
those are the things that make a game harsher or not, and not a simple 1 skill queue.
All the examples you mentioned above are within the confines of the game. A skill queue would be an out of game benefit. Once I logoff, my avatar is not being affected or influenced by agents, jump clones, maps, etc., yet a skill queue would alter my character. Yes, offline training does affect my avatar, but it is a single incident that without my real life influence, will eventually end. Fortunately CCP allows such tools like EveMon to monitor the training but will not allow such tools to change skills. It does seem CCP wants that human interaction to "grow" the avatar by careful nurturing and not by allowing a computer to "raise" the avatar for you via a queue. If CCP did not care either way, then don't you think some outside program would already be doing such tasks and these threads would be for naught?
Originally by: Apertotes also, the fact you keep arguing about us wanting a longer queue later, means you really didnt understand nothing about it
Human nature will always want more than what it has currently. People want a single skill queue; and if that was granted, people will then want multiple skill queues. Give an inch, want a foot; give a foot, want a mile. I offered the example of changing one skill from level 1 to level 2 - would this be enough? Would players then quit asking CCP for a skill queue or would players want to be allowed to change any skill for any level afterwards? I doubt anyone would be content with just a simple level 1 to level 2 queue.
And what's wrong with double the skill points?
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 08:44:00 -
[696]
Edited by: Apertotes on 29/05/2008 08:44:59
Originally by: Guttripper
Originally by: Apertotes having or not having a queue doesnt make the game harsher or colder.
An example off the top of my head - having a queue would remove the choice between logging in a moment to change a skill to spending some quality time with the family. Without the queue, a pretty harsh decision if you're a hardcore gamer to being a quality family member. Those players without a family need not concern with such matters and will gain a slight benefit by being able to change skills to those that decide family comes first over an online game and let the skill lapse.
so, spending time with the family without loosing EVE training time is something bad? anyway, a single skill queue would make players log in as many times as now (and not half, like many people believe), so i do not see the problem.
Originally by: Guttripper
Originally by: Apertotes but if you want a cold experience, try playing EVE without map, without local, without insurance, without automatic orbits, without weapons and modules autorepeat, without npc agents, without clone jumps, and without overview. then the game would be harsh, and colder.
those are the things that make a game harsher or not, and not a simple 1 skill queue.
All the examples you mentioned above are within the confines of the game. A skill queue would be an out of game benefit. Once I logoff, my avatar is not being affected or influenced by agents, jump clones, maps, etc., yet a skill queue would alter my character. Yes, offline training does affect my avatar, but it is a single incident that without my real life influence, will eventually end. Fortunately CCP allows such tools like EveMon to monitor the training but will not allow such tools to change skills. It does seem CCP wants that human interaction to "grow" the avatar by careful nurturing and not by allowing a computer to "raise" the avatar for you via a queue. If CCP did not care either way, then don't you think some outside program would already be doing such tasks and these threads would be for naught?
well, EVE is a perssistent world. the character already advances without your interaction. we have offline training. yes, offline. the only interaction you need is log in, set a skill. that is not interaction at all.
but that is not the only thing. many features of the game work offline, like market orders, or POSes, contracts, etc.
if market orders remain while you are offline, and they can be filled, i do not see the reason why training can not have a single skill queue
Originally by: Guttripper
Originally by: Apertotes also, the fact you keep arguing about us wanting a longer queue later, means you really didnt understand nothing about it
Human nature will always want more than what it has currently. People want a single skill queue; and if that was granted, people will then want multiple skill queues. Give an inch, want a foot; give a foot, want a mile. I offered the example of changing one skill from level 1 to level 2 - would this be enough? Would players then quit asking CCP for a skill queue or would players want to be allowed to change any skill for any level afterwards? I doubt anyone would be content with just a simple level 1 to level 2 queue.
you still do not understand it. we do not want a queue cause we do not like to play the game and just want to train. we do not want a queue cause we are lazy. we do not want a queue to farm characters. we do not want a queue to set 6 months of skills and forget about it.
we want something that help us not loose training time when, even through careful and smart planning, something prevents us from training. this happens mostly when there are unexpected server downtimes.
to get that immunity, only 1 skill in the queue is needed, and thus we will not ask for more. cause, i repeat, we are not lazy. we just want to train 24 hours everyday, without being penalized for something that is out of our scope.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:19:00 -
[697]
Come on give us a queue FFS!
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Zakurai
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:17:00 -
[698]
Is there any way we can petition to have a Dev read and respond to this thread?
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Epidemis
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Posted - 2008.06.02 21:28:00 -
[699]
The skill system in place is currently very annoying if you have any obligation at all. IT's frustrating you have to be online at a specific time all the time.
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Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.03 07:43:00 -
[700]
No, you don't. You just set a new skill if the skill you're training finishes at an inconvenient time.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.03 11:28:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx No, you don't. You just set a new skill if the skill you're training finishes at an inconvenient time.
still here? arent you tired of being proved wrong time and time again?
you are convincing no one, cause you lack arguments. you just troll, and that has already thrown your credibility to the ground.
well, at least you are doing a terrific job at mantaining this topic on the front page.
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Resamo
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Posted - 2008.06.03 17:48:00 -
[702]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx No, you don't. You just set a new skill if the skill you're training finishes at an inconvenient time.
Ok... so i know i will be home at 6:00pm and my skill finishes at 6:30pm cool i am set. But my kid got hurt at and i have to take him to the hospital and dont get home until 9:00 or 10:00 and maybe at that point i am a little to concerned with my family to log onto eve to change my skill. should i be penalized for this?
Your argument is set a skill that finishes at a convinent time... well sometimes you dont know when the time is when you set the skill.
EVE is great because it allows people with real lives to advance just like people with no lives (like you) a skill queen just adds to that makeing people with lives much happier and keeps them in the game and attracts more to the game. EVE has a mature player base (well that might be a stretch) for the most part due to the fact that you can still be competitive even with a busy life why not add to this?
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.03 18:08:00 -
[703]
Originally by: Resamo
Ok... so i know i will be home at 6:00pm and my skill finishes at 6:30pm cool i am set. But my kid got hurt at and i have to take him to the hospital and dont get home until 9:00 or 10:00 and maybe at that point i am a little to concerned with my family to log onto eve to change my skill. should i be penalized for this?
oh no, now mr. dexx is gonna call you a looser and a no-life cause you get concerned for loosing 4 hours of training. yeah, that is the way he reasons.
he just makes noise, and says how easy it is to plan your skills so that they end at a convenient time (which we all know), and then when confronted with how unstable the server and real life are, he just says that loosing hours of training is no big deal. and then its circle logic all over again.
yes, he is annoying, but he keeps the thread updated and on the front page, that is why we feed him sometimes.
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Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.03 21:57:00 -
[704]
Originally by: Resamo
Originally by: Grarr Dexx No, you don't. You just set a new skill if the skill you're training finishes at an inconvenient time.
Ok... so i know i will be home at 6:00pm and my skill finishes at 6:30pm cool i am set. But my kid got hurt at and i have to take him to the hospital and dont get home until 9:00 or 10:00 and maybe at that point i am a little to concerned with my family to log onto eve to change my skill. should i be penalized for this?
Your argument is set a skill that finishes at a convinent time... well sometimes you dont know when the time is when you set the skill.
EVE is great because it allows people with real lives to advance just like people with no lives (like you) a skill queen just adds to that makeing people with lives much happier and keeps them in the game and attracts more to the game. EVE has a mature player base (well that might be a stretch) for the most part due to the fact that you can still be competitive even with a busy life why not add to this?
Your kid gets hurt and all you care about is 90 minutes (OH JESUS!) of skilltime lost?
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Guyy Fawkes
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Posted - 2008.06.04 11:42:00 -
[705]
Hey guys,
Theres this macro program called Apis Ceratina. It records mouse clicks and movements. IM NOT SAYING I HAVE EVER USED THIS. In the program, there is a scheduler. It is possible to schedule the program to train your skills for you THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.04 11:53:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Guyy Fawkes Hey guys,
Theres this macro program called Apis Ceratina. It records mouse clicks and movements. IM NOT SAYING I HAVE EVER USED THIS. In the program, there is a scheduler. It is possible to schedule the program to train your skills for you THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
edit this message inmediatly. we do not want or like macros, and CCP does neither.
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Guyy Fawkes
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Posted - 2008.06.04 11:57:00 -
[707]
Well, as soon as someone lets me know talking about a program people use to do this sort of stuff is illegal, ill keep it up. If a Mod or dev should contact me about it, I will take it down.
Ive never used it, however, alot of people I know have.
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Guyy Fawkes
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Posted - 2008.06.04 11:57:00 -
[708]
Well, as soon as someone lets me know talking about a program people use to do this sort of stuff is illegal, ill keep it up. If a Mod or dev should contact me about it, I will take it down.
Ive never used it, however, alot of people I know have.
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Achran Dexx
CompleXion Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.04 12:03:00 -
[709]
I s'pose you just scrolled by the EULA, eh?
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Resamo
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Posted - 2008.06.04 15:28:00 -
[710]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Resamo
Originally by: Grarr Dexx No, you don't. You just set a new skill if the skill you're training finishes at an inconvenient time.
Ok... so i know i will be home at 6:00pm and my skill finishes at 6:30pm cool i am set. But my kid got hurt at and i have to take him to the hospital and dont get home until 9:00 or 10:00 and maybe at that point i am a little to concerned with my family to log onto eve to change my skill. should i be penalized for this?
Your argument is set a skill that finishes at a convinent time... well sometimes you dont know when the time is when you set the skill.
EVE is great because it allows people with real lives to advance just like people with no lives (like you) a skill queen just adds to that makeing people with lives much happier and keeps them in the game and attracts more to the game. EVE has a mature player base (well that might be a stretch) for the most part due to the fact that you can still be competitive even with a busy life why not add to this?
Your kid gets hurt and all you care about is 90 minutes (OH JESUS!) of skilltime lost?
Thats right i dont care about hte 90 minutes or 5h or 2days or what ever since i have more important things to worry about. Why should i be penalized?
(I asked you a real question and put some real points to you but your response was a waste of my time... do you really think you are effectivly debating this. I guess you are just trolling this, thats unfortunate as it destroys any positive comments you have made for your side.)
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Kusha'an
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.04 17:08:00 -
[711]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Quote: Ok... so i know i will be home at 6:00pm and my skill finishes at 6:30pm cool i am set. But my kid got hurt at and i have to take him to the hospital and dont get home until 9:00 or 10:00 and maybe at that point i am a little to concerned with my family to log onto eve to change my skill. should i be penalized for this?
Your kid gets hurt and all you care about is 90 minutes (OH JESUS!) of skilltime lost?
Er...not only are you a troll, but you're not even a good one. 9pm minus 6:30pm doesn't equal 90 minutes. Sheesh.
---- What part of "shorn't" do you not understand? |
SellYourPoppa
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Posted - 2008.06.05 11:13:00 -
[712]
A skill queue will help break the addiction. We wouldn't wanna do that :).
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Kusha'an
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.05 14:09:00 -
[713]
Originally by: SellYourPoppa A skill queue will help break the addiction. We wouldn't wanna do that :).
No, it won't. What it will do is allow people to avoid unplanned downtime losses.
People who would normally be getting up for work and need to change a skill aren't suddenly drawn to play the game in the morning. They just log in, change the skill, and log out. With the skill queue, they wouldn't have to do that. Or if there's downtime, they won't be punished.
No actual decrease in play time would be realized; in fact, it probably would increase since people would be training more short skills and would be more eager to play since their short term goals would be accomplished more often.
---- What part of "shorn't" do you not understand? |
Belmarduk
de Prieure Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.06.05 14:59:00 -
[714]
Edited by: Belmarduk on 05/06/2008 14:59:22 Yep exactly - and again a few good reasons for a 1+ skill-queue....again
Why arent the devs answering? The post is moderated by Mr.Navigator - Please Mr Navigator tell a dev to answer - Thankyou And before anyone...again... necros that old answer from hm 2004 (?) up...again...Please dont forget that the skill-queue or dualtraining system was put onto the drawingboards AFTERWARDS Thankyou for your attention...again CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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b1zz
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Posted - 2008.06.05 17:02:00 -
[715]
Originally by: Belmarduk Edited by: Belmarduk on 05/06/2008 14:59:22 Why arent the devs answering?
Because I asked them not to. Please devs, just get on with other more pressing issues thanks. These aren't the drones you're looking for. Move along, move along.
Originally by: Resamo
(I asked you a real question and put some real points to you but your response was a waste of my time... do you really think you are effectivly debating this. I guess you are just trolling this, thats unfortunate as it destroys any positive comments you have made for your side.)
Every argument for and against has been posted in this thread more than once so admonishing people for not replying to your points simply indicates to me that you're not interested in finding out about them and would not be persuaded by them even if they were. This thread has to take the record as the most bumped, and also the most alt bumped .
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Kusha'an
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.05 17:11:00 -
[716]
Originally by: b1zz This thread has to take the record as the most bumped, and also the most alt bumped .
And yet here you are bumping it again. Thanks for that, by the way.
---- What part of "shorn't" do you not understand? |
b1zz
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Posted - 2008.06.05 17:47:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Kusha'an
Originally by: b1zz This thread has to take the record as the most bumped, and also the most alt bumped .
And yet here you are bumping it again. Thanks for that, by the way.
You can't bump a thread that is already at the top you moron.
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Kusha'an
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.05 19:45:00 -
[718]
Originally by: b1zz Edited by: b1zz on 05/06/2008 17:56:43
Originally by: Kusha'an
Originally by: b1zz This thread has to take the record as the most bumped, and also the most alt bumped .
And yet here you are bumping it again. Thanks for that, by the way.
And I would accept that thanks if I had bumped anything. The thread was already at the top when I posted so direct your sarcasm elsewhere numbnuts
Thanks for your noncontribution. I will take it under advisement. By the way, your mom can explain why my nuts are numb.
---- What part of "shorn't" do you not understand? |
Jacqueri Calroszian
Lords Of Kaos
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Posted - 2008.06.06 05:56:00 -
[719]
I frankly think a queue would be incredibly convenient, but am not all for it.
For all of us who can't login because they:
- Have a high-latency connection (satellite) and constantly get dropped
- Have a slow computer
- Are not able to install Eve on the computer they are forced to use for a period of time
- Do not have the convenience of logging in (work/job - those ones where you can't get away with carrying a laptop around with Eve installed)
- Have a family that they need to attend to almost 24/7 - without having to spend 10 minutes just to click 4 buttons to train a new skill and log off
- Any other reason you can think of - I can think of a lot more
... Why not just make a damn link on the website itself? Log in here, click the character you want to train, click the skill you want to train all from the EVE Online site, etc. A queue could really give this game over to character farmers, but a far more lightweight ability to control what your character does while you're offline shouldn't be such a problem should it?
Of course, I've been having massive problems logging on over the last few days because of my HughesNet satellite connection. I'm really fuming currently because I've lost 7 days worth of training time due to the fact I'm not at my house with cable internet and am not able to log in at all. I just think it's ridiculous that I have to log in with the client just to start training something like "Jump Drive Operation 4" when I could have finished training it by now.
I would even pay something like 5 dollars static fee just to have a service like this enabled - because thus far I have lost about 2-3 dollars of my subscription not being able to play.
Overall, am I for a queue system? No. Am I for a lightweight HTML implementation that lets you do the same thing approximately 5 times faster and without worry of the client vomiting you off of the server? Yes.
Also, maybe put something in like one of those random picture-number-letter generators and have the user input what the picture shows to avoid training bots...
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Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.06 07:32:00 -
[720]
Your 'lightweight' html application would require a direct connection with the database, needlessly overloading it.
The code-input would not scare off any decent script, and if those scripts do get through everyone and their mother will have one, and character-farming will be oh-so rampant.
CCP has said it time and time again. NO skill queue, and definitely NO web-based application to manage your skills. If you are having trouble with your internet connection, take it out on your ISP and stop degrading this game.
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