I assume you are complaining about the ISK rewarded, your rant was pretty incoherent.

...Cowards stay in highsec...

Still, it may seem a little broken, but I assume competition makes it much less given there are potentially many who get nothing for the effort.
.

Makes Vanguards harder or more time-consuming, and increase the payout for everything else.

I also think that Sansha ships should be brought in line with player ships, but more of them need to be destroyed per site. The fact you can simply pop 4 specific ships to finish a site is just plain bad.

If the choice is between being a coward in highsec (and my own boss) or a sheep bleating for their supper working for an RMT lord, I know what I'd rather be.

Lady Spank likes to seem tough. It's...a thing. You should see her tap her glass with an emory file. It's absolutely frightening!

Lady Spank likes to seem tough. It's...a thing. You should see her tap her glass with an emory file. It's absolutely frightening!

And just to clarify, an experienced HQ fleet can make 150mil an hour, however, we are susceptible to losses, primarily logistics ships, with the occasional Battleship/T3 loss due to late broadcasts, and these tend to be people who haven't done a HQ before.

The most I made in an hour was 126mil isk + 28k LP

And before you say hurr hurr isk/hr *****, I don't care how much money I make, I have so much more fun than VGfags, and we tend to do more stupid shit like this

everyday the same threads. im glad you guys spend 15 dollars a month to keep talking about the same stuff. day in day out month aftet month, year after year, priceless

If the choice is between being a coward in highsec (and my own boss) or a sheep bleating for their supper working for an RMT lord, I know what I'd rather be.

If the choice is between being a coward in highsec (and my own boss) or a sheep bleating for their supper working for an RMT lord, I know what I'd rather be.

You can make that amount of isk in a t1 frigate in low sec with abit of luck.

LOL, yes low sec alt, CCP should nerf high sec incursions so you have an advantage.

Lets also be very clear.

There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE

Say it with me?

You can or you can't. Plain and ******* simple. Once you know how to do something you can do it a million times. It's the flaw of computer code. There is nothing CCP can do about it. Stop crying

High sec ISK farmers will still sit in high sec and farm ISK. They won't come to low sec and be your cow. They are Alts, you know that, I know that. Likely Alts from your own alliances, deal with it.

....Low sec alt?

FFS you're retar.ded....

Feel free to ignore everything else I said, even though it's true.
High sec people do Level 4's because they can solo them.
Low and Null sec people do Incursions. In all Sec space.
Denial will fix EVE.

LOL, yes low sec alt, CCP should nerf high sec incursions so you have an advantage.

Lets also be very clear.

There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE

Say it with me?

You can or you can't. Plain and ******* simple. Once you know how to do something you can do it a million times. It's the flaw of computer code. There is nothing CCP can do about it. Stop crying

High sec ISK farmers will still sit in high sec and farm ISK. They won't come to low sec and be your cow. They are Alts, you know that, I know that. Likely Alts from your own alliances, deal with it.

I use my multitude of alts to run both hisec/lowsec/nullsec incursions, I actively PVP. I *used* to solely run incursions but it got boring so I use my alts for jewing and I pvp on this toon. Not everyone's cup of tea is low/null sec, only those with competence can actually survive there. So can you stop complaining hurr hurr nerf incursions, if you do not know a damned thing about them.

Test / goons can be seen running low sec incursions. These incursions are normally run without issue.

Occasionally the test guys fall for a tarp. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdWzTcPiMqI
They are getting wise now though :)

Take 7 zealots and 3 guards and they will prob not bother you. and most small gangs shouldnt be a worry. And scout. 15mil every 6 minutes on vanguards. That is pretty good isk.

For some people the choice is: be a bleating sheep, or a principled starving homeless man. It is nice to have priciples when you are fat, happy, and have a roof over your head.

For some people the choice is: be a bleating sheep, or a principled starving homeless man. It is nice to have priciples when you are fat, happy, and have a roof over your head.

Some people run low sec incursions because they enjoy the opportunity for PVP that they present. Cowards stay in high sec with the rest of the scrubs.

If you think there is too much money to be made, or too many people running them then do something different. It's rather hypocritical to complain about how much money they make when you happily run them yourself. I assume you are complaining about the ISK rewarded, your rant was pretty incoherent.

Some people run low sec incursions because they enjoy the opportunity for PVP that they present. Cowards stay in high sec with the rest of the scrubs.

If you think there is too much money to be made, or too many people running them then do something different. It's rather hypocritical to complain about how much money they make when you happily run them yourself. I assume you are complaining about the ISK rewarded, your rant was pretty incoherent.

I don't do Incursions. Nerf it in to the ground. make them another piece of worthless high sec content, you seem to think i have some investment here. Rather fail of you.

For that matter I haven't undocked in 2 months.
If I follow you your EVE prescriptions, CCP should just close the game down. I do it, everyone else must too.

In an incursion you do not even need luck...just a few basilisks and 3 battleships will do.


But there are 2 other MAJOR Problems with incursions.

a) It takes ages to find a fleet

b) There are way to less Vanguards for all the people who want to fly them...An Incursion-System easily goes up to 400 people in lots of fleets and you warp from site to site only to see it is allready occupied... once you find a free one, you might be lucky and be able to do it uncontested... But most of the time some idiots think it is funny to contest and shoot the targets.

I want to fly assaults/HQ's, but have trouble finding fleets for them because sometimes a fleet isn't even up for either. That, or the fleet is a shield fleet, and my shield skills aren't good enough to do that yet.

100mill in an hour is not much. you should trying doing nullsec exploration. lots of risk, but you make way more than that.

And you just come back to the Eve forums to randomly ***** like a two year old?

Unsubscribe already. At least try and gain some semblance of being a person who has a life.

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

You mean your CSM that wants to reduce the resources that any potential competitors may acquire? Yes, let's develop the game so that your CSMs stay rich and their alliances in control.

EVE: If your alliance doesn't have a member on the CSM, don't bother playing.

You mean your CSM that wants to reduce the resources that any potential competitors may acquire? Yes, let's develop the game so that your CSMs stay rich and their alliances in control.

EVE: If your alliance doesn't have a member on the CSM, don't bother playing.

WTF are you talking about? I'm not fan of the CSM principal reps atm, but I don't think this is accurate at all. Most of the CSMs represent big alliances, yes, but what are those alliances actually doing, exactly? A whole lot of NOTHING from what I've seen. PL used to be a major player in sov warfare and now they just float around looking for fights seemingly arbitrarily. The Goons are just screwing with miners in empire and practicing random acts of asshattery. TEST just bombs around null laying siege on random corps for no apparent reason and then forgetting about them... I've never seen the alliances of EvE as apathetic to sov as they are right now. It's not about REMOVING resources... it's about distributing them in non-conformal and unique ways. It's about giveing alliances a REASON to fight. They don't want to deny anyone anything necessarily. They want to tighten up the allocation of resources to keep alliances from sprawling. If a finite amount of high-quality resources are in a few systems, and those systems support the alliance, than the thinking goes there will be an upper limit to how far laterally an alliance will sprawl before the diminishing returns at the periphery of alliance controlled space cause corps to revolt against their keepers! If CCP were to make the resources something that can be sustainability harvested OR gutted for a quick payday and than depleted, alliances may form that just roll around and crush others. Incursions have nothing to do with it. At all. You're way off.

LOL, yes low sec alt, CCP should nerf high sec incursions so you have an advantage.

Lets also be very clear.

There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE
There is no hard in EVE

Say it with me?

You can or you can't. Plain and ******* simple. Once you know how to do something you can do it a million times. It's the flaw of computer code. There is nothing CCP can do about it. Stop crying

High sec ISK farmers will still sit in high sec and farm ISK. They won't come to low sec and be your cow. They are Alts, you know that, I know that. Likely Alts from your own alliances, deal with it.

Some people can be so negative and jaded. Why can't we all just be friends?

CCP responds to post with positive statement that it is being looked into, and something will be done.

Bittervet syndrome descends.

- payouts for lowsec and nullsec incursions should be dramatically increased (like 5x) -- the risk running them is enormous

No. No, no, no.

nullbear mega-blox RMTers do not need more monopolies. One alliance dumping all it's people into one low/null constellation and grinding half a billion isk per individual per hour is bad. 1 vg system supports approx 50 people... the nullbear alliances do not need the power to grind 1 super per hour per system with what adds up to be essentially NO risk. It would be trivially easy for asshat fucktards like goons to trigger uncontrollable inflation effectively removing everyone else from the game.

post less stupid next time.

So, what you're saying is that the CSM (which consists of prety much only 0.0 leaders) was bitching that their pilots were up in high sec running incursions instead of being in their fleets in 0.0 like they want. I predict an incoming hard nerf since the squeaky whines are coming from the CSM this time.

NULL SECers once again crying because someone in HI SEC can make some ISK... Want to make REAL ISK with no RISK get a TECH MOON! I say NERF the TECH MOONs and say have drones poop techtanium dollups so its not just a NULL SEC passive farm item. At least HI sec Incursions are not a passive way to make you rich

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

I think I'm starting to get your thought process. Whereas most players take a look at the system overall and try to find a way they can adapt their play style to the game and the other players to reach their goals, you have a play style that is set in stone and you want eve to conform to you. Sounds lazy. I would make some kind of argument trying to convince you that half the fun is overcoming the challenges of the game, but I don't care anymore. Recycle your char. is my only advice.

Since we're talking about personal playstyles... I'll admit, maybe I don't want to adapt to certain changes... But I know that's my own issue, and I never make the argument "it's too hard for me to change." The argument I make, and will always make until it changes, is that life is too easy for nullbears. AFK empires should fall. Lazy empires should fall. Holding the same sov for more than a year should be a rarity. Change is life, permanence is death. Every change that has ever happened in nullsec has lead toward permanence, stagnation. Until nullsec is made permanently volatile (i.e. fresh), the ONLY viable long term careers in EVE is "nullbear stooge" and "nullbear RMTer" everything else being a dead end, and thus EVE being a dead end. That is why I will ALWAYS argue in favor of those who might topple the lazy afk RMTing behemoths, as those are the only changes that can stop EVE from dying. The only motivation I can think of for arguing (much less developing) in favor of the RMTing behemoths is if you stand to personally profit from their RMT. And if development heads even further in that direction, EVE is already dead but just doesn't know it yet.

Oh, and to frame my goon jab, I accept that they have a right to be dickheads, but I'm irritated that they are constantly rewarded for it instead of punished. That's not gamebreaking though, except for when it is (as is reflected in my argument against the five fold increase in null/low incursion payments.)

EVE is already dead but just doesn't know it yet.

NULL SECers once again crying because someone in HI SEC can make some ISK... Want to make REAL ISK with no RISK get a TECH MOON! I say NERF the TECH MOONs and say have drones poop techtanium dollups so its not just a NULL SEC passive farm item. At least HI sec Incursions are not a passive way to make you rich

I still don't see what any of this has to do with adjusting the way incursions work.

Replace ISK with (more) LP. Everyone wins.

Many empire bears in here.

Adorable.

As soon as your gravy train is threatened, you all come out of the woodwork to post. HTFU and move out of your trade hubs.

*quoted for irony*

As if the nullbears aren't trying to protect their RMT interests by trying to kill incursions.

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

Nullsec has risks. Highsec has none. If you'd like to play your 99.9% safe hello kitty online, be prepared to pay for it with less income.

Many empire bears in here.

Adorable.

As soon as your gravy train is threatened, you all come out of the woodwork to post. HTFU and move out of your trade hubs.

You realize many, many pvp corps and alliances also utilize high sec incursions to fund pvp. It's not just a bunch of carebears.

agreed. For players that only care about PVP, incursions are really the only way to make decent isk so they can buy their pvp ships

They can fund their PVP in low sec incursions, where they ought to be if they are PVPing in the first place. Defending weekend warriors is no excuse for justifying the stupid income available in high-sec.

It's not just weekend warriors and you know it, unless you wanna group Brick sQuad and Noir in the weekend warrior crowd.
Whether or not they're running on mains or alts, every single major alliance and corp has people running highsec incursions.

So, what you're saying is that the CSM (which consists of prety much only 0.0 leaders) was bitching that their pilots were up in high sec running incursions instead of being in their fleets in 0.0 like they want. I predict an incoming hard nerf since the squeaky whines are coming from the CSM this time.

spoken like someone who has never enjoyed a good book or movie while running logi on vanguards

sure its not PI, but it sure as hell isn't work either

We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

BOO HOO I DONT THINK THE CSM REPRESENT HIGH SEC SCRUBLORDS THATS THE ONLY REASON HIGH SEC IS NOT AS LUCRATIVE, I CANT ACCEPT THAT PERHAPS I AM WRONG BUT TRYING TO DELUDE MYSELF BECAUSE I AM TOO COWARDLY TO LEAVE THE TRAINING GROUNDS.

You cannot actually run low sec incursions w/o running into goons or test. Seriously if you have ever gone to a low sec incursion you will see goons and their allies there farming it to death. Goons know where the money is at and how to make it. Why are people complaining about high sec incursions, while the rest of 0.0 is bitching about high sec, they dont see the massive fleet building up in goon space of revenants and nightmares getting ready to move out.

Also while the rest whines about incursions you begin to realize one thing.

How come 0.0 people cant form a simple 10 man fleet to fight them? seriously you hold space have over 1000 people in your alliance and you cant get 10-40 people to run vans and make money. Sounds like some serious failure out there.

You cannot actually run low sec incursions w/o running into goons or test.

This is completely incorrect.

They don't represent anyone other than nullbear empires.

Remember wanting to nerf ABC mining in Wormholes because they didn't know they were 0.0 regions?


Just because you like to troll in caps with terribly thin veiled insults doesn't make your argument right. People don't all want to play a small group's idea of EVE, deal with it.

Some of them don't even run the incursions in their own sov. You fly through a week after they're established and still at full penalties.

How come 0.0 people cant form a simple 10 man fleet to fight them? seriously you hold space have over 1000 people in your alliance and you cant get 10-40 people to run vans and make money. Sounds like some serious failure out there.

Go check it out when a lo sec incursion is falling in influence zoom over there & see for yourself who is there.

If you look at their agenda's you will see how small minded your comment is. Most of the people I see crying about how unfair the CSM is are irrelevant high-sec risk averse whiners that think farming incursions, avoiding wardecs and mining in peace are the most important issues. Maybe you don't feel represented because you are completely out of touch with the grand scope of the game. The mineral removal in wormhole space was primarily to limit the ease with which systems could become impenetrable fortresses.

Perhaps they aren't interested in Incursions.

Many empire bears in here.

Adorable.

As soon as your gravy train is threatened, you all come out of the woodwork to post. HTFU and move out of your trade hubs.

Again, we're debating individual ideas of what people think EVE is, or should be. But the reality is far from the accusations of people in their T1 battleships making billions out of pugfleets that I grow tired of hearing.

Nullsec has risks. Highsec has none. If you'd like to play your 99.9% safe hello kitty online, be prepared to pay for it with less income.

*looks at wallet*

*looks at ship*

*looks at fleet*

I'm sorry, what was that?

How much are you making per hour, what are you flying and what's your fleet comp?

Then let us know what system that is so you can get rolled by a Faction shield fleet and find yourself losing most contests.

You said T1 battleships can't make billions with pug fleets. None of the rest of your reply to me matters because you are wrong.

Now you're just full of it.

you are WRONG

Its so funny that I warned people of this exact problem back in January of last year. Its not the people in T1 BSs who are cranking out the 150 mil per hour, its the people in their "elite" shiny fleets. Most people in incursions get 60-80 mil per hour tops just because their fleets don't run smoothly (can't find a logi, long wait times between sites, etc).

Now to nerf incursions because the top percentage is apparently making large amounts of ISK severely punishes those who are barely making more than level 4 missions. Hell, a lot of people do it because its an easy way to get a bit of fleet and social interaction in EVE with low risk.

I am no fan of ISK pumps. In my opinion, it's dumb to let the Sansha mother sit there while the sites are farmed. That mother should have a despawn timer and if it's not destroyed, NOBODY gets their ISK and LP rewards for that incursion. This would make things very very interesting.

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

Or I am paranoid.

In my opinion, it's dumb to let the Sansha mother sit there while the sites are farmed. That mother should have a despawn timer and if it's not destroyed, NOBODY gets their ISK and LP rewards for that incursion. This would make things very very interesting.

Do you guys even listen to what the csm says about incursions? The current csm loves incursions and wants ccp to implement more pve content like it.

This thread is full of tinfoil.

Show proof.

Show me proof that CSM has stated that they want incursions to be anything but nerfed.

Nerf statements include.

"OMG rebalance vanguards!"
"Less Incursions in hisec"
"Force players into other types of incursions"
"Make incursions more a threat to logis"
"Tweaks to incursions"

etc..

Look at many alliances alliance mail. You will notice this phrase in many different ways "This is a mandatory CTA join or log off" WIth Incursions people can run alts when they don't want to circle a gate or be cannon fodder for the good ole boys club. It gives incentive for alliances to have ship replacement policies and other efforts to urge players to go out.

The CSM is not I REPEAT NOT a good place to get feedback that is accurate on Incursions. Even going to places like BTL Pub is not because a number of incursion runners WANT nerfs to things like vanguards to drive away anything but shiny fleets so their LP value is higher. Utter bias on both fronts.

The CSM may paint a picture of "Incursion Inflation" yet in reality you can make more skillfully blitzing lvl4s with 2-3 accounts. It is just that for once you implemented a feature that TRUELY encourages grouping in hisec and that has the other groups miffed.

If you do ANYTHING leave hisec incursions EXACTLY as they are and increase the spawn rate for nullsec.

This will do two things.

#1 It will allow blues and renters to work together in PVP like setups that will help to encourage grouping on PVP ops and other activities bigger than "This corp dis system"

#2 Gets big nullsec alliances to want to pop them instead of waiting it out. They "wait it out" currently because they don't want to introduce their members to anything that is an alternative of their mandatory CTAs.

I think Incursions are superior in all ways to L4 missions. They generate content, socialization, and in some cases PvP. They're a great way for corps to form and recruit. And, unlike a L4, they can't be botted into being an endless fountain of isk.

So I'm in favor of Hisec incursions being profitable, as at least humans are profiting from them instead of bots, and they drive social interaction between players rather than being a mindless, boring, awful solo activity. Missions bore the hell out of me and I can't imagine doing them for any length of time. Hell, even Incursions get repetitive, but at least you can chat while you do them.

And you are bulls##ting. But of course if you're not going to actually refute the argument with anything other than putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALA I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG" then this is a waste of time.

Running vanguards Blameston tonight there were 3 shield faction fleets and 1 armour faction fleet, as well as a shield Slepneir fleet and a Legion fleet running NCOs.

3 of those fleets left the area because of the hot contestation and sites were clearing faster than they spawned. PuG fleets were getting muscled out and served little purpose than giving other fleets faster payout.

But of course you've got a system all to yourself where your T1 BS fleet is probably chaning outpost sites like there's no tomorrow and never get rolled by a shiny fleet right?

Nullsec has risks. Highsec has none. If you'd like to play your 99.9% safe hello kitty online, be prepared to pay for it with less income.

So, what you're saying is that the CSM (which consists of prety much only 0.0 leaders) was bitching that their pilots were up in high sec running incursions instead of being in their fleets in 0.0 like they want. I predict an incoming hard nerf since the squeaky whines are coming from the CSM this time.

what risk does nullsec have that highsec doesn't again?
nullsec, all alone doing whatever
neut or red in local
warp/cloak
success

highsec local is jammed.. doing your thing and bam, suicide gank, fail RR or any of the other things that happen in highsec that nullbears seem to ignore.

the only issue with incursions is it prints isk.
if it gave out LP it would be better. but it would have to be a lot of LP to compensate for the isk ( note: usually LP= isk sink)

Never listen to CSM.
They are all in some big alliance.... and will offc. get rid of incursion.
They want theyr players back

This thread is priceless. Went from a good old fashion Incursion cry, straight to the old "CSM/Mega Alliances are killing the game."

Epic win...Epic

I think that Grayscale derailed this thread faster then any forum troll could have ever dreamt of.

Nullsec has risks. Highsec has none. If you'd like to play your 99.9% safe hello kitty online, be prepared to pay for it with less income.

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

We're not all in big alliances. And we certainly don't want to get rid of incursions.

Incursions are a great collaborative PvE experience, it brings people together in highsec (which is a good thing), gives some focus points where pvp can happen in lowsec as well as providing some much needed reward boost there, etc. So, no, we don't want to get rid of Incursions, they are a good thing.

The questions that need to be looked at as far as I'm concerned are:
- whether there are enough incursions or not. I believe they go away too fast in highsec, forcing continuous migration which isn't a good thing
- whether the overall rewards are appropriate. I believe the rewards are a tad too high in highsec, and fairly good otherwise, a bit on the low side in 0.0 but 0.0 has other income sources (or should have).
- whether sites are balanced (they're not, vanguards are too easy to do, the other sites are too annoying/long), diversity is good in terms of content, but the overall reward/time could use some harmonization.

If anything, we asked for more similar content, because it generates the kind of behavior (people getting together) and fun experience/gameplay that is beneficial to the game, so stop worrying :p

For the love of god, if you're going to revisit the feature and fix the issues people complain about, treat the actual problems and not the symptoms. The main two problems I see in the feature are, that there is a large number of infinitely respawning sites and there is no reason to try to end the incursion in highsec until at the very last minute.

The fixes should simply be to create a mechanic that reduces the number of sites as the incursion matures and the amount of site farming increases and create reasons to kill the mothership and ending the incursion as soon as possible.

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

everyday the same threads. im glad you guys spend 15 dollars a month to keep talking about the same stuff. day in day out month aftet month, year after year, priceless

*I bolded the bad stuff in this.

Ya this is as I expected. Is the CSM REALLY trying to hide disdain for incursions by mixing nerf attempts in piles of so called "improvements and harmonization" ??

You have CCP's ear and now its time to "git 'dem damn incursion runners out and back to mAh endless CTAs to defend mah moon gooz!"

Incursions are fine as is. We have to risk very expensive ships to run these sites you claim are too easy, too high, and imbalanced. When in nullsec NAPed systems with sanctums in there get buffs with virtually no risk.

What I love is how the shiny fleet fools in BTL Pub support the nerf effort. They seriously think you CSM wont come for them next (Or first) If they wont call against this nerf effort I can only hope you alliance folk will start blasting the moms and ending their runs as well. As nerfing Vanguards will virtually drive away all non shiny fleets leaving many to return to lvl IVs and removing the reason to group. Which is exactly what the shiny fleet fools want as it means better LP prices.

- whether there are enough incursions or not. I believe they go away too fast in highsec, forcing continuous migration which isn't a good thing

whether the overall rewards are appropriate. I believe the rewards are a tad too high in highsec, and fairly good otherwise, a bit on the low side in 0.0 but 0.0 has other income sources (or should have).

whether sites are balanced (they're not, vanguards are too easy to do, the other sites are too annoying/long), diversity is good in terms of content, but the overall reward/time could use some harmonization.

(In all seriousness, there is a problem: EVE needs profitable group PvE content and Incursions are that but at the moment they completely overshadow any non-highsec activity, messing up with the all-important risk-vs-reward and leading to a deserted 0.0 where few large factions fight over some Technetium moons and not much else...)

And up with free money for nullbears...?

i have had 5 good eve friends quite eve in the last 2 weeks, all of them over 4 years old in this game.... because they are bored, I would be more worried about this than anything else...

Now now, don't put words in my mouth... Especially since I don't do endless CTAs to defend my non-existent moon-goo... Do a little bit of research ;-)

If you read my post, instead of criticizing what you think I wrote, I say that I believe the rewards to be a TAD too high. I don't go "cut the rewards in HALF!!!!1!!one". tad...
2nd, I talk about balancing the sites, which means aligning vanguards and others towards a closer gain/time, that means decreasing a tad the vanguards, and improving significantly the others.
Also, you may notice I mention a desire to extend the duration of the sites, meaning that even if the value/hour decreases a tad, you have more content to profit from, instead of having to run every which way to find the next incursion, thereby increasing your revenue/hour.

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

When your master's gravy train is threatened a CTA comes out of the wood work. Boy, don't you scurry when he calls....

Constant migration is part of the mechanic, if anything sites are currently up for far too long. I understand the frustration when you've had a good staging area that's a couple of jumps from the major market hubs and you suddenly have to relocate to the arse end of highsec where there's little support.

The nomadic feel of shifting across space, as well as the temporary population of a lot of quieter regions (I've travelled to some places I'd never otherwise have bothered going to thanks to incursions) is a good pacing mechanic. Any isk printing issue would be made worse by the fact that you can sit in the same system for weeks and not have to relocate your logistic wing.

The fact that incursions vary in location is a good thing, but it's a question of the frequency of the move. If they stay a decent amount of time after spawning, a more "casual" type of people could give them a shot. As it is by the time you get your friends organized, they're gone.

This also ties with the reevaluation of the non-vanguard sites, the more near-identically profitable sites, the more concurrent group can run them.

Now now, don't put words in my mouth... Especially since I don't do endless CTAs to defend my non-existent moon-goo... Do a little bit of research ;-)

If you read my post, instead of criticizing what you think I wrote, I say that I believe the rewards to be a TAD too high. I don't go "cut the rewards in HALF!!!!1!!one". tad...
2nd, I talk about balancing the sites, which means aligning vanguards and others towards a closer gain/time, that means decreasing a tad the vanguards, and improving significantly the others.
Also, you may notice I mention a desire to extend the duration of the sites, meaning that even if the value/hour decreases a tad, you have more content to profit from, instead of having to run every which way to find the next incursion, thereby increasing your revenue/hour.

I was unaware that null sec had any risk, IE local spike, GET TO THE POS ASAP!!!.

All jokes aside, EVE is extremely safe no matter what kind of space you are in. Even W-Space is super-safe from risk if you pay attention ( you cannot sneak by combat probes no matter how hard u try).

To be fair though, the isk ammount for HS vs, low/null is scewed. In high sec you will see more shiny ships, more shield vindicators fitting their CN invuls, faction webs/guns, etc.. These guys will end up running incursion sites faster than null/low sec for sure, and by a lot. I wouldn't go for an overall HS incursion ISK nerf as much as a null/low sec buff (5-10% buff)

And incursion running has been made even easier with T2 ganglinks (I know, I went there again). I see Scimitars get by in vanguards now tanking solely with ganglink bonuses and a single invul 2. More Tracking links fitted, more DPS, faster sites, more ISK.

Its so funny that I warned people of this exact problem back in January of last year. Its not the people in T1 BSs who are cranking out the 150 mil per hour, its the people in their "elite" shiny fleets. Most people in incursions get 60-80 mil per hour tops just because their fleets don't run smoothly (can't find a logi, long wait times between sites, etc).

Now to nerf incursions because the top percentage is apparently making large amounts of ISK severely punishes those who are barely making more than level 4 missions. Hell, a lot of people do it because its an easy way to get a bit of fleet and social interaction in EVE with low risk.

you bears should get out of hisec to learn about risk

I wouldn't advocate incursion constellations staying up for weeks, but when they stay up less than 48 hours after spawning, it's a bit too short.

The fact that incursions vary in location is a good thing, but it's a question of the frequency of the move. If they stay a decent amount of time after spawning, a more "casual" type of people could give them a shot.

This also ties with the reevaluation of the non-vanguard sites, the more near-identically profitable sites, the more concurrent group can run them.

Why ?

There is nothing for us out there.

We are carebears.... not pvp'ers

Nullsec alliances have become complacent in their "superiority" over other EVE players. Perhaps there needs be Jove incursions in null to put them in their place. You want to nerf ISK making in high-sec? Then nerf the flow of ISK in null as well.

They don't represent anyone other than nullbear empires.

Seriously i don't understand where's balance??? Why pve fitted expensive ships do not fly in low sec where cheap PVP fitted pilots could have make some ISK and easy kills!!!! The life must be very risky and hard for everyone but pvp players!!! This PVE Pilots are cowards!!!! They don't want to play the game the way i like it!!!!! Fix this CCP!!!!! I like to play PVP, everyone else should like this too!!!!! I simply DEMAND THIS!!!!! *emorage*

Not sure I agree with this, and I think this thread got derailed long ago.

Isn't the potential issue that incursions are nothing more than isk-printing machines, injecting unbacked value into the market at an unprecented rate? Seriously, who gives a damn about highsec or lowsec or nullsec? I think there is reason to believe it's hurting all of us. LP value is down and wallets are fat and possibliy losing true buying power. Despite our playing preferences, we ALL depend on the market. If incursions are threatening the true value of ISK, everyone suffers.

Focus, people.

Prices are determined by manufacturing costs which revolve around base mineral value. Tell me why the price of mods would rise because of Incursions, please.

Prices are determined by manufacturing costs which revolve around base mineral value. Tell me why the price of mods would rise because of Incursions, please.

You're forgetting that not everything on the market is primarily sourced from minerals. T2 ships/mods, LP store items, deadspace items, PI-derived goods.

Some people run low sec incursions because they enjoy the opportunity for PVP that they present. Cowards stay in high sec with the rest of the scrubs.

If you think there is too much money to be made, or too many people running them then do something different. It's rather hypocritical to complain about how much money they make when you happily run them yourself. I assume you are complaining about the ISK rewarded, your rant was pretty incoherent.

Its a pvp game. Why are people upset about having to pvp?

I say everyone pour support into the skunkworks and similar groups to drive the risk of incursions up to match the rewards, til CCP does it for us.

I just totally agreed with a Lady Spank post...

But yeah, what LS said...

1. It isn't only a pvp game, otherwise ccp wouldn't release "Tyrannis" trailer to convince new players that eve online is not only about shotting.
2. I am not upset to pvp or any other pilot, it's just fun doing that on pvp fitted ship, not on ship that is effective only for PVE encounter.

The only coward is the one who is looking for unfair fight.

Just allow some way for players to side with the Sansha against the farmers without CONCORD interference, then the profitability can remain high without throwing rsk vs reward out the window. Failing that just remove Incursions from High Sec altogether.

No thanks. No matter which way you cut it. It is still a "I wantz free hisec targets to attack" Earn up enough to get a gank ship if you want to fight incursion runners so bad. Incursions don't need this nerf.

And then you say if you cant haz your free targets you want to remove good hisec grouping. Bias much? Removing them from hisec will just lead to people going back to Lvl4 missions.

I have a question. Are you one of those people who complained about raiders getting exclusive access to tier gear so much that Blizzard gave in and gave equal gear to everyone?

I am not a WoW player. (Or are you talking about that starcraft stuff I cant play for more than 2 mins before my mouse hand hurts?) Either way it is off topic.

Referring to WoW, sorry.

And actually, its not off topic, because it was those arguments, which are just like your arguments, that directly caused the massive decline of wow. When people who work hard are no longer the only ones who get the goodies, they quit the game because there is nothing to work for. When the people who want it that way get their way, they get bored and quit because they are no goals to set that they can't easily get to.

There is some complicated psychology behind it, but simply put, there are 2 kinds of people. Those who get off on doing, and those who get off on achieving. The achievers just want the goal at the end of the tunnel, and as such will try to make it easy so they can be praised for how good they are. The doers enjoy the tunnel itself, and look for a new one as soon as they reach the goal. When achievers get to influence the design of a game, they ruin it for everyone, because the doers don't want it to be that easy, and the achievers won't get praised for achieving easy things.

If you are a doer, you want it as hard as possible. If you are an achiever, you will work to make absolutely sure you get your shiny, even if it means other people can't have fun.

Sadly, eve is a game where the point of a doers is usually to make someone elses game less fun, so its hard to filter who is who, unless you ask yourself who is trying to ruin the game for as many people as possible via changing the rules, vs who is trying to ruin the game by in-game griefing.

tl;dr if your rule changes make it easier for anyone without addressing a clear imbalance, you are doing it wrong.

Nerf Incursions please.

Buff nullsec.

WoW player who rushed to nullsec thinking it was endgame detected.

Incursions are fun!

Incursions dont need to be fixed, they are not broken.

A lot of things in EVE are not fun, so they need to be fixed.

Fix that which is broken, its a better use of your time, and a better way to generate more interested players.
After I found out how fun incursions are, several of my RL friends have come back to EVE, because I told that to my great surprise, EVE was fun again.

Incursions has a much larger FUN/hour factor than any other PVE content in EVE.

This is what should matter.

We're not all in big alliances. And we certainly don't want to get rid of incursions.

Incursions are a great collaborative PvE experience, it brings people together in highsec (which is a good thing), gives some focus points where pvp can happen in lowsec as well as providing some much needed reward boost there, etc. So, no, we don't want to get rid of Incursions, they are a good thing.

The questions that need to be looked at as far as I'm concerned are:
- whether there are enough incursions or not. I believe they go away too fast in highsec, forcing continuous migration which isn't a good thing
- whether the overall rewards are appropriate. I believe the rewards are a tad too high in highsec, and fairly good otherwise, a bit on the low side in 0.0 but 0.0 has other income sources (or should have).
- whether sites are balanced (they're not, vanguards are too easy to do, the other sites are too annoying/long), diversity is good in terms of content, but the overall reward/time could use some harmonization.

If anything, we asked for more similar content, because it generates the kind of behavior (people getting together) and fun experience/gameplay that is beneficial to the game, so stop worrying :p

I'm really getting sick of this no risk ****......... I take plenty of risks in my high sec incursion

Which nullbear empire does Trebor represent? His alliance is based in W-space I believe.

I don't care about incursions one way or the other, but thinking about it, this game lives and dies with High Sec. If you squeeze players out of High Sec, you are more likely to squeeze them out of the game and not into low or hull sec.

IMO, make High Sec more fun, not less. A better game experience in High Sec means more people playing this game which in turn means more people out in Low and Null blowing each other up.

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of scheduling some developer time to review the Incursion content, and make adjustments as needed. We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.

Thanks,
-Greyscale

I don't care about incursions one way or the other, but thinking about it, this game lives and dies with High Sec. If you squeeze players out of High Sec, you are more likely to squeeze them out of the game and not into low or hull sec.

IMO, make High Sec more fun, not less. A better game experience in High Sec means more people playing this game which in turn means more people out in Low and Null blowing each other up.

I don't care about incursions one way or the other, but thinking about it, this game lives and dies with High Sec. If you squeeze players out of High Sec, you are more likely to squeeze them out of the game and not into low or hull sec.

IMO, make High Sec more fun, not less. A better game experience in High Sec means more people playing this game which in turn means more people out in Low and Null blowing each other up.

Which is why hisec needs more stuff to do for solo players - more exploriation, more missions, more storylines. Not endless incursion grindan which also happens to make more isk/hr than any other hs activity.

With more carebears joining the game to populate hisec, more would ultimately try their hand at pvp. Anf if nothing else, thered be more target for suicide gankers to blow up.

Seriously CCP you have to understand. The nullsec alliances HATE incursions. Incursions compete with their vision of complete control over their members. Forced CTAs, No incentive to share moon goo, No incentive to treat new members as anything but dirt and cannon fodder.

Look at many alliances alliance mail. You will notice this phrase in many different ways "This is a mandatory CTA join or log off"

[...]

I agree, and here is how to make high sec more fun...

1. Remove Concord
2. Remove invulnerability to wardecs
4. Reduce income per hour from incursions to 30% of present figures
3. Add more exploration type content

suitably beef up rewards in low sec to match the new fun available in high-sec.

- Incursions go way too fast? People can farm them for days, which is very likely one problem. Migration is a good thing. Like Ooooh STARGATE and FLYING IN SPACE.

Otherwise I've been doing some incursions and getting up fleets that's not easy **** (for proper gang) and takes time. That's why bigger sites need oomph. Getting a bigger fleet running is much more difficult. VG fleet is still reasonably small and easier to get running without too much planning and spamming. Not to mention VG sites are pretty straightforward close to medium range "fights". VG's are good money but not so good I'd go decrease rewards much.

Instead of going nerf all hi sec **** I'd go boosting more difficult sites and low sec especially. 0.0 is controlled by alliances which already have their isk prints they don't especially need more goodies there. Well, at least not in form of incursions. 0.0 needs other **** to make it rewarding to gather corporations, alliances and actually taking effort to siege systems for months and stuff. All that crap does not reward anyone much, especially normal cannon fodder which is actually just paying isk to fund ships and then he pays taxes to corp for ratting and then he pays taxes at stations for refining and market. Pay pay pay pay pay pay pay.

The amount of stupid in this thread is staggering.

No, guys, the devs aren't looking at Incursions because the CSM is an evil null alliance conspiracy that wants to make the game enjoyable only for themselves, the devs are looking at Incursions because they're not working as ******* intended. I don't think CCP wanted everyone to min/max isk/time on the ******* Vanguard sites over and over again; if they did, they wouldn't have made Assaults or HQ's. We're sorry that your isk printing machine has the possibility of getting nerfed, but you just need to deal with it and come to terms with the fact that it's not supposed to be that easy.