There are 11 similar pages for the day

3.5 million dollars a year.

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Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.

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Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

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CCP endorse buying your way to victory

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Originally by: Meridius Dex

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I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory.

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Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn

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I would rather 90 bil isk get moved from player to player then 90 bil isk get injected into the game from macros and the like.

The GTC program is CCP's best weapon of fighting isk sellers and macroers/farmers and the like.

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Remember, these are not cards bought by a player to take advantage of exchange rates to fund their own subscriptions. They are bought by players to lazy or incompetant or lackluster to earn the isk for themselves in game

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Originally by: ZenTex

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Remember, these are not cards bought by a player to take advantage of exchange rates to fund their own subscriptions. They are bought by players to lazy or incompetant or lackluster to earn the isk for themselves in game

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And bought by players with their hard earned isk to pay for their accounts...

In the end the money goes there where it belongs, to CCP instead of to isk sellers, and in the process succesful players can play for free!
Isk farming can never be weeded out, not even by a crusade against isk farmers. This method is the best alternative out there IMHO.

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Originally by: Quelque Chose

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Edited by: Quelque Chose on 09/04/2008 00:33:53

Originally by: Le Skunk

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If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory.

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Current average for 30 day GTC is about 160 mil. 30 day gtc costs $15 US. 90bn ISK = ~600 gtc = $9000 US.

Please show me the guy who spends 9 grand a day on a video game as I need somebody new to mooch off of.

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Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.

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Originally by: "ccp"

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Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

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Originally by: Tzar'rim

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As I stated in that other post, GTC is no better than RMT, it's just better for CCP who sugarcoat it with some nice PR. And people actually believe it.

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Originally by: Cambarus

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TBQH I prefer the thought of the owners of the game profiting from any isk buying that goes on, and CCP lining their wallets doesn't cause systems to be mined out by bot miners...

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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CCP Grimmi says:

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Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.

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This is patently incorrect. An individual CAN use the secure system to gather tens of billions of isk AND upset the game balance.



CCP Grimmi is trying to convey the impression that one of the major difference in what happens with the isk selling sites and what ccp are doing is that nobody could possibly abuse it. This is a falsehood.

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Originally by: "ccp"

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Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

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If people have (as this suggests) banded together and used real life moeny in order to fuel a war (or the all encomposing other activiteis) and this is lambasted by CCP as something 'evil and wrong' then why are they activley promoting the means to do exaclty the same thing in a dev blog.

Looking thourgh the forums you regually see people seeling 10 or 20 GTC in one go. MOre then enough to 'Fund a war'.

SKUNK

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Just dont go all holier then thou on us and release patronising dev posts like that one - when you yourself are rolling in "evil" bought isk dollars.

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Originally by: Kyra Felann

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IMO the primary difference between buying/selling GTCs and buying/farming ISK to sell straight up is that the people that make enough ISK to buy a GTC aren't making money off of it (at least not directly). They are getting game-time (which saves them RL money). There are farmers in every MMO in existence than farm money as their RL job. Buying a GTC for ISK is not the same. The money changes hands between players and CCP makes money from GTCs. Everyone's happy (except ISK sellers and apparently the whiner that started this thread).

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Looking thourgh the forums you regually see people seeling 10 or 20 GTC in one go. MOre then enough to 'Fund a war'.
SKUNK

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and instead take the shortcut to riches - gaining a huge advantage over players who choose the honest in game route to slowley building up their empires.

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Originally by: Woodwraith

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I dont have time to sit and grind and market wh****/rat/mission whatever isk income people have.
I work 50+ hours a week.
your buying a month off of someone who has the time to make isk through in-game means and not the money out of game to subscribe.

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seriously, are we supposed to believe people are buying carriers on their PayPal accounts?

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Originally by: Akita T

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I half-hartedly agree with the first part of this small part of your entire OP.

The one bad thing CCP did was to sugar-coat the fact that selling GTCs is still buying ISK.
We all know full well that the only differences (for an ISK buyer) between selling GTCs and buying ISK from a RMTer are:
* the inconvenience factor for GTCs opposed to the risk factor for RMT
* the ISK a certain amount of money buys (lower if GTCs are used, higher if RMT is used)
But here ends all agreement I can have with your point of view.


There's plenty of plus sides for allowing GTC trade, and reducing RMT occurences is one of them.
A more agressive awareness campaign should be conducted, one that will explain in great detail why exactly GTC-for-ISK is so much better than USD-for-ISK for the game economy, the community as a whole and so on.
At no point should they try to make it sound as if somebody couldn't wage excessively disadvantageous wars, if only they are willing to waste enough real-life money (but the fact that via GTC it costs them much more SHOULD be stressed out).


The reason why this awareness campaign is needed ?
Because, apparently, people STILL can't tell what the fundamental differences between GTC and RMT are.

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Originally by: Amoxin

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My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...

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Originally by: CCP Ginger

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No sex changes.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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No, it is not reasonable to suppose that whole alliances are funding wars with GTCs. 1.6B (10 cards) barely buys a single, unfitted dreadnought.

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Originally by: "ccp"

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Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 01:36:55
Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 01:36:17

Originally by: Woodwraith

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I dont have time to sit and grind and market wh****/rat/mission whatever isk income people have.
I work 50+ hours a week.
your buying a month off of someone who has the time to make isk through in-game means and not the money out of game to subscribe.

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Lets imagine you decide to take up tennis. And enter a local league.

Would you storm in with your wallet out saying

"Hey nerds. I work a 50 hour week man. And i aint got time to practice. So im going to pay 2 grand right now to win the trophy. Horray im the winner. Right im off. Taxi to the squash club. And make it snappy! dont you know i work a 50 hour week."

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 00:25:42
Another CCP sugar coated dev blog regarding the "nasty evil isk sellers" had the usual couple of things in it that didnt sit quite right.

There was an odor of something fishy. And i dont mean the tuna and anchovie that drips out of the end of their free CCP gourmet rolls and splatters all over their keyboard.

So I jumped on over to the Timecode Bizaree and took a look at the volumes of cards that were being trafficd. Remember, these are not cards bought by a player to take advantage of exchange rates to fund their own subscriptions. They are bought by players to lazy or incompetant or lackluster to earn the isk for themselves in game - and instead take the shortcut to riches - gaining a huge advantage over players who choose the honest in game route to slowley building up their empires.

I took a look at one random page of posts. In that page,

36 time codes were sold with an average value of 258 million isk each.
Over 9 Billion isk sold on the page.
1100 dollars US worth of codes.

Thats quite a lot of isk being sold you might think.... well here is the kicker.

There are 11 similar pages for the day

A quick check of the other pages revealed a similar amount being sold each page. A quick check through the year also yielded similar amounts.

Thats 10 thousand dollars a day flowing into CCPs coffers.

3.5 million dollars a year.

Its also 90 Billion isk flowing unearned into peoples coffers per day - rubbishing CCP Gimnis statement that

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Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.

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If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory.

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Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

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They might want to consider that their own 'legal secure method' gives people the opportunity to do just that.

In a war with another corporation and lose your carrier in a hard thought out and bitterly fought out engagement with some players who dont buy isk? Simply flog 5 GTC and get another. Use it tommorow and its a slap in their face tee-hee. Isnt life fun.

Its a further indication of how business rules over ethics for many at CCP - despite their protestations.

This is all well and good. CCP is a business - in it to make money. They create a good product. Many aspects of the game are very good. Their GM's in particular have been top notch in all my dealings with them.

Just dont go all holier then thou on us and release patronising dev posts like that one - when you yourself are rolling in "evil" bought isk dollars.

SKUNK

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory.

In a war with another corporation and lose your carrier in a hard thought out and bitterly fought out engagement with some players who dont buy isk? Simply flog 5 GTC and get another. Use it tommorow and its a slap in their face tee-hee. Isnt life fun.

Its a further indication of how business rules over ethics for many at CCP - despite their protestations.

Just dont go all holier then thou on us and release patronising dev posts like that one - when you yourself are rolling in "evil" bought isk dollars.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.

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If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory.

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Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

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Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Originally by: Ironnight

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Paying 3 months with creditcard Ç38,85 paying with gametimecard $38,85, sorry but my mom didnt raise no sucker, keep the gametimecards.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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My argument is less about the ethics of the GTC trade, and more about CCPs greenwashing of whats a nice little earner for them. They should come right out with it.

Theres been a number of cases recently where the PR machine has churned out some rather ripe material. This should be stamped out.

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Originally by: Cissnei

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this system benefits those that have and use isk to buy the cards, and not those that just shelled out cash to buy the card itself

firstly, if the farmers who spam rookie chat are to be believed, ccp is currently charging nearly 3x the amount of $ for isk. you can get 150m isk from them at around $6 (plus risk losing your account to phishing, not receiving it at all and supporting macro mining hypocrite-commies), or you can spend $15 on 160-170m

so if a corp goes to war and loses..oh lets be conservative here..5 BILLION isk in assets after the war is over, that would cost 50x$15 give or take. $750. crapton more for you euro using dudes.

being as how war decs are a nearly hourly thing in this game i dont see that happening in the way you guys are insinuating (overreacting).

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Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn

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I would rather 90 bil isk get moved from player to player then 90 bil isk get injected into the game from macros and the like.

The GTC program is CCP's best weapon of fighting isk sellers and macroers/farmers and the like.

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Originally by: IamAcontractALT

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Edited by: IamAcontractALT on 09/04/2008 08:21:04

Originally by: Cissnei

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this system benefits those that have and use isk to buy the cards, and not those that just shelled out cash to buy the card itself

firstly, if the farmers who spam rookie chat are to be believed, ccp is currently charging nearly 3x the amount of $ for isk. you can get 150m isk from them at around $6 (plus risk losing your account to phishing, not receiving it at all and supporting macro mining hypocrite-commies), or you can spend $15 on 160-170m

so if a corp goes to war and loses..oh lets be conservative here..5 BILLION isk in assets after the war is over, that would cost 50x$15 give or take. $750. crapton more for you euro using dudes.

being as how war decs are a nearly hourly thing in this game i dont see that happening in the way you guys are insinuating (overreacting).

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Cost is non-issue in war. There are people who work all week and live off tins of beans and potatoes and spend all their wages in games such as fruit machines, online poker or even MMO's. If they earn 5000, they spend all of it. If they earn 1000 they spend all of it.

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Originally by: Scoundrelus

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Simply put Le Skunk, your completely correct. CCP are being complete hypocrites about the whole issue. You can't buy isk but you can buy game time cards and sell them for isk. Exact same thing except CCP gets to line its pockets. I really have no problem with them doing that but they shouldn't act like holy crusaders for the War Against Macro Miners, when obviously they leave macrominers/haulers in the game for the additional income and allow GTC sales (despite many contradictions) for even more income.

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Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 03:03:20

Originally by: Malcanis

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No, it is not reasonable to suppose that whole alliances are funding wars with GTCs. 1.6B (10 cards) barely buys a single, unfitted dreadnought.

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Perhaps so. But CCPs devblog suggests otherwise

Originally by: "ccp"

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Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

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The suggesting is there are a 'number' of cases where this has happened in the past using real world money trade for isk.

This, it is alluded to, is very naughty and should be stamped out.

Yet the 90bill per day CCP sponsored GTC to ISK is ok dokey. Spend it on what ya want - we dont care.

My argument is less about the ethics of the GTC trade, and more about CCPs greenwashing of whats a nice little earner for them. They should come right out with it.

Theres been a number of cases recently where the PR machine has churned out some rather ripe material. This should be stamped out.

CCP should come out of the closet (so to speak)

SKUNK

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Originally by: Cissnei

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Originally by: Ironnight

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Paying 3 months with creditcard Ç38,85 paying with gametimecard $38,85, sorry but my mom didnt raise no sucker, keep the gametimecards.

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the sucker would be you. the euro is worth substantially more than the dollar

so 39 euros is a helluva lot MORE than 39 dollars. it's nearly 50 dollars

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Originally by: CRUSH BOSS

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I will buy as much isk as i need to fly anyship or fit any module i like, that's why i love this game.

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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Pilots with your attitude (and there are plenty) are one of the many reasons I still enjoy playing EvE. Mainly because when I blow up your ship I get that lovely feeling that I took your lunch money-for real .

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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Throwing RL cash to compensate for being a ****ty player seems pretty amusing when all you are buying is a collection of pixels.

Suckers .

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Originally by: Delichon

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1 fully fitted nano-Ishtar - 15 bucks
Ability to PVP without bothering about grind and mock leet kids in local for wasting their life on a PC game - priceless

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Willow Whisp

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Edited by: Willow Whisp on 09/04/2008 11:30:20
You say

"3.5 million dollars a year."

Like it's supposed to be some significantly large sum.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Willow Whisp

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Edited by: Willow Whisp on 09/04/2008 11:30:20
You say

"3.5 million dollars a year."

Like it's supposed to be some significantly large sum.

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So your saying that the board of CCP wouldn't shed a tear if they lost 3.5 million dollars worth of revenue every year?

Do you realize how big a different 3.5 million dollars can make?

If people wants to buy isk using GTC's, so let it be. CCP makes monies, i make isk when i blow these people up and people are able to play without having to pay real life money.

Its good for everybody.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Because people are making money selling dwugs to the kids - the government should knock up some Kiosks and start floggin it themselves eh? It will be ok as long as they get the money for it instead of the crims?

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Ability to rob someone's 15 buck ship and fund off the next Hurricane off it + mock ISK buyers for wasting their $ on a PC game - priceless.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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I could preety much afford to stop paying real life money for EvE and play using GTCs. I in fact quite like the idea.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Because people are making money selling dwugs to the kids - the government should knock up some Kiosks and start floggin it themselves eh? It will be ok as long as they get the money for it instead of the crims?

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Actually, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
It works in Holland, doesn't it ?

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Originally by: Burnharder

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But how does CCP profit from this? When player A buys a game-time card and sells it for ISK to player B, the ISK gets transferred from player B to player A. Player B uses the GTC to pay his subs for a month. CCP make money selling the card to player A, CPP lose the same amount of money when player B uses the card to pay his subs instead of his credit card. The net effect should be ~0. So the cash isn't "flowing into CCPs coffers" in this respect.

With respect to effectively buying ISK with GTC, that's a different issue. I don't see the problem here either. In fact I don't see a problem with an LP store accepting real money for items (micro-payments, "Apoc Five Dorrar!"). But that's just me. If someone wants to spend ú100 a month on his hobby, that's fine. If you have to "Work" game time to earn the same amount, then good for you. I don't purchase and sell GTC, because I've got enough on my plate with a Mortgage, Car and Restaurant bills to pay, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wanted to do so. I think in the 80's we used to call it, "the politics of envy". Well, what do you care where the ISK came from?

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Originally by: Xyn Rhais

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RMT is not a dirty word, it's not "bad by definition".

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Originally by: Slade Trillgon

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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Throwing RL cash to compensate for being a ****ty player seems pretty amusing when all you are buying is a collection of pixels.

Suckers .

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You are not wholely right or wrong, but your statement is a blanket full of holes.

One being that you also pay for those pixels, just not quite as much, o wait yes you do. Do you get paid to work in real life? If so the time that you spend at your computer hunting players down costs money (time = money period). Some people do not have as much time to sit at their computer to grind isk so they buy some GTC's to cover their expenses.

This does not necessarily make them a shottty player. It could mean that they do not spend quite as much time at their computer screen. But it could mean that they are a shottty player. I goes both ways. Just pointing that out.

Also I would suspect that you have quite a few years in game so I hope you would be able to take on and win numerous engagements based on skill.


Slade

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Originally by: Delichon

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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Pilots with your attitude (and there are plenty) are one of the many reasons I still enjoy playing EvE. Mainly because when I blow up your ship I get that lovely feeling that I took your lunch money-for real .

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1 fully fitted nano-Ishtar - 15 bucks
Ability to PVP without bothering about grind and mock leet kids in local for wasting their life on a PC game - priceless

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Originally by: RedClaws

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...epic trolling...

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Originally by: Delichon

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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You paid $15 for a collection of pixels?

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Come to think of it - I do it monthly. I pay 15 bucks to stare at my collection of pixels.
I haven't paid additional 15$ for any particular stash of pixels - yet, it wouldn't take me a leap of faith to start doing that.
In the end - if CCP would increase prices for 30 day GTCs from 15 to 30 dollars it would be the same thing :)

Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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p.s. I don't pay attention to local either

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You miss some top-notch jokes.
I almost ROFLMAO'ed when once our 10 man gang got jumped by a 20 man gang, and than we got smacked in Local for not staying to fight them. Those guys pushed the joke even further, when they called themselves "big boys" :)
Slaughtered 13-0 a few days later, those "big boys" were :)))

You can learn to really enjoy smacktalk :)

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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My mistake...I thought you were implying extra RL cash on top of the sub fee. And ebay currently has the Ishtar at around $10 anyway (check it out...it's funny...and lots of satisfied customers apparently).

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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**EDIT**I would LOVE to hear the CSM candidates EACH put forward thier respective thoughts on this sort of thing .

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Originally by: Achran Dexx

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What's even funnier is the sort of names that buy the GTC's. Check it out once, you'll find atleast two or three macro'ers per page.

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Originally by: Tok Machei

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Edited by: Tok Machei on 09/04/2008 13:16:50

Originally by: Achran Dexx

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What's even funnier is the sort of names that buy the GTC's. Check it out once, you'll find atleast two or three macro'ers per page.

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if only more ppl would actually bloody realise that... *sigh*

and I wholehartedly agree with Skunk, it's absolutely pathetic!


ehum:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744760

Originally by: Katy Ji

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One for "supers0n1k"
one for "KpyTeHb"

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Originally by: YYDI

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One for "ppsd"
one for "kferas" plz

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"EULA-Friendly" GTC selling not helping macroers?

right.....

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Originally by: Tok Machei

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...KpYTeHb...

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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The OP makes a good point. Either purchasing ISK for $ is good for the game or bad for the game. It can't be bad if bought from farmers or other players and good if bought via sanctioned GTC sales. If RMT is bad for the game, then it's bad whether bought from CCP or from farmers.

Seems to me that what CCP is really saying is that ISK purchase for $ is good when CCP gets the money and bad when someone else does.

It's understandable that CCP wants to discourage buying from farmers (which is bad) but don't do it with the sanctimonious tone that is used. That is hypocritical, and undermines the excellent parts of their argument (that the gold seller companies are criminal enterprises, steal credit card info, etc). It really is a bad idea to buy ISK from these shady dealers.

But don't stand there on a pedestal and tell us that RMT is unbalancing for EVE while offering... RMT...

If ISK buying is bad for the game, ban it. IN ALL FORMS, including GTC and character selling.

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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-Looking at a game in terms of time=money is one of the most self-serving and utterly stupid things I have ever heard of.

-I have been in game since August 2006. Not very long at all.

I stand by my statement. If you pay anything beyond your sub fee to play this game-you are a sucker.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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They are bought by players to lazy or incompetant or lackluster to earn the isk for themselves in game - and instead take the shortcut to riches - gaining a huge advantage over players who choose the honest in game route to slowley building up their empires.

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Originally by: Navtiqes

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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They are bought by players to lazy or incompetant or lackluster to earn the isk for themselves in game - and instead take the shortcut to riches - gaining a huge advantage over players who choose the honest in game route to slowley building up their empires.

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I feel obliged to defend my e-honour.

1. I find mining to be a boring job.
2. I already have a boring job.

Solution I use the money I earn from my boring real-life job on legal GTC trade so I don't need to do two boring jobs to be able to enjoy some Eve in my spare time.

To me the logic there is sound and I expect you to understand even though you don't appreciate it.

Cheers.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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I can't see anyone loosing out on this, except the RMT ISK farmer (and he can go f... himself)...

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...

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Originally by: Delichon

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Originally by: Kerfira

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I can't see anyone loosing out on this, except the RMT ISK farmer (and he can go f... himself)...

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There is another category, that loses from this:
The leet Kid, who thinks that inability to grind should make Rich Player inferior to Poor Player who is able to grind.

But, I think he should do the same thing as the RMT ISK farmer

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Originally by: Kerfira

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There's a huge difference between an <ethnic> ISK farmer selling ISK for RL money, and CCP organising inter-player ISK-for-money sales through ETC's.

The <ethnic> ISK farmer has incentive to do massive farming as the more he farms, the more RL money he gets.

Done through ETC's though, the 'RL money' aspect is taken out of the motivation. A player buying ETC's has no incentive to earn ISK on a massive scale for buying ETC's as he'll only be able to 'buy' game-time with it, and there's a definite limit on how much of that he can use. My guess is that 99 out of 100 people purchasing ETC's for ISK only does it to be able to play their account cheaply.

ISK-for-money is ALWAYS going to happen, one way or another!
CCP's scheme is actually pretty good since it provides a secure outlet for this with the minimum amount of effects on the game economy. As long as they deal harshly with anyone not using this system, it'll be ok.

I don't give a damn either whether players are able to 'pay their way ahead'. On the grand scale of things, it matters little as it's only a very small percentage of the EVE playerbase.
It doesn't hurt my game if someone else was able to buy himself a mommyship through selling ETC's. In fact it just provides me with another high-profile ship to kill.....

Oh, and I think Skunk is still harbouring a grudge about CCP nerfing Privateers

---

Originally by: RedClaws

---

Hi,

I'm a multimillion dollar company owner that has retired and I still make over 100k dollars a month. I certainly don't spend all of that in a month but I try.

I play eve a lot but I don't like the isk gathering part so I simply buy about 5000 dollars of GTC's a month and sell them: 350 gtc's or about 61 bil isk a month.

I continuously buy all the nice officer items on contracts, mess with the market whenever I feel like it and sometimes I donate a titan to my alliance (I think i've donated like 5 now)

So I just fly around in officer fitted faction battleships ganking people in lowsec or when pvping in 0.0 I use a mothership. If I lose it it's not a problem since I got 15 more in my hanger.

I hope I'm not messing up your game too much by letting my alliance own everybody else but then again most of you are in empire mining veldspar for 1 mil isk an hour right?

CCP says it's ok so you can't stop me.

---

Originally by: Leyla Peace

---

Hmm some fast math say that if your numbers are correct almoste 18k 30 day gametime cards are sold each month (or atleast equal game time). Thats a large part of the player base.
Also remember its not like one player can look at this and say "hey this means i can sell 18,000 gtc a month" prices will fall if more players sell gtc. I¦m not sure but i Think a 30 day gtc once sold for 210 milion,

---

Originally by: Cissnei

---

Originally by: Ironnight

---

Paying 3 months with creditcard Ç38,85 paying with gametimecard $38,85, sorry but my mom didnt raise no sucker, keep the gametimecards.

---

the sucker would be you. the euro is worth substantially more than the dollar

so 39 euros is a helluva lot MORE than 39 dollars. it's nearly 50 dollars

---

Originally by: Le Skunk

---

This shows your ignorance of the issue. Yes people do buy carriers on their paypal accounts. People sell 10 or 20 or 30 GTC in one sitting.

In fact heres one selling 15 at a time from the front page of the GTC bizarre (started 15 mins after i made this thread) - Free bump for him. Get em while they are hot.

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744843

Nothing wrong with what hes doing. Its all CCP legal.

SKUNK

---

Originally by: Overwhelmed

---

Skunk, please use your powers of manipulating the sheep-masses with sensationalist prose for good, not evil.

---

Quote:

---

EVE Online is the only MMORPG where if you convert the in-game currency to dollars, its the only game where a regular player can farm $4 or more per hour worth of currency.

---

Originally by: Quelque Chose

---

Current average for 30 day GTC is about 160 mil. 30 day gtc costs $15 US. 90bn ISK = ~600 gtc = $9000 US.

Please show me the guy who spends 9 grand a day on a video game as I need somebody new to mooch off of.

---

Originally by: Scoundrelus

---

Simply put Le Skunk, your completely correct. CCP are being complete hypocrites about the whole issue. You can't buy isk but you can buy game time cards and sell them for isk. Exact same thing except CCP gets to line its pockets. I really have no problem with them doing that but they shouldn't act like holy crusaders for the War Against Macro Miners, when obviously they leave macrominers/haulers in the game for the additional income and allow GTC sales (despite many contradictions) for even more income.

---

Originally by: Le Skunk

---

CCP may as well have a log in screen where the rich can type in cheat codes.. hold down shift and type INFINICASH.. just have your credit card ready.

---

Originally by: Elaron

---

If you feel such outrage about the entire issue and feel that it is undermining the game to such a great degree, then the only thing you can do is quit, and tell CCP that it's why you quit. You could also use your rabble-rousing abilities to try and get other like-minded people to quit for the same reason.

In all honesty, the only way that you can force CCP to discontinue their support for this is to show them that they will lose more players with it in than without it.

---

Originally by: Siresa Talesi

---

Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 09/04/2008 17:24:01
Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 09/04/2008 17:22:53

Originally by: Scoundrelus

---

Simply put Le Skunk, your completely correct. CCP are being complete hypocrites about the whole issue. You can't buy isk but you can buy game time cards and sell them for isk. Exact same thing except CCP gets to line its pockets. I really have no problem with them doing that but they shouldn't act like holy crusaders for the War Against Macro Miners, when obviously they leave macrominers/haulers in the game for the additional income and allow GTC sales (despite many contradictions) for even more income.

---

(italics added for emphasis)

I see this same mistaken idea over and over and over in these threads.

Is it worth pointing out that in offering the GTC transaction, CCP makes no more money than they would if everyone buying GTCs with ISK were to pay for their accounts with cash? Or is everyone going to freely ignore this some more? In the hopes that some people out there actually think through these things and try to understand them, I'll do my best to explain.

Player A purchases a 30 day GTC for $15US. The money paid goes to CCP, minus whatever portion is taken by the company that distributed the GTC. Player B uses ISK to purchase a GTC from Player A. Player B does not receive money from Player A, nor a code, but instead has subscription time added to his account. That's it, the only out-of game commodity that can be purchased with ISK is time. That time, used by a player, is paid for at the same rate, regardless of which player paid the cash to CCP.

Except that this is not *exactly* the case. Some European players purchase GTCs for their own use. Since they typically purchase the codes at the USD price, they actually pay less for their subscription time then if they had paid directly to CCP due to current exchange rates. Also, as the GTC distributors get a cut of the price, CCP makes less from every GTC sale than they would by direct subscription fees.

The only way in which offering the GTC exchange makes CCP more money is by potentially increasing the number of subscriptions. When Player B has a lot of play time but not a lot of cash and uses ISK to purchase a GTC from Player A who has more cash but less play time, Player A in effect subsidizes an account which may not have existed otherwise. So yes, GTCs can increase what CCP makes, but only by increasing subscriptions, they receive no raw money for it. So far as money/player, CCP makes the same if not less than they would without the GTC exchange. Even if a player bought 200 GTCs with real world money to sell for ISK, he will never get that ISK unless the codes are applied to subscription time, and CCP makes the same off that time regardless of which player pays the cash for it.

---

Originally by: Siresa Talesi

---

I see this same mistaken idea over and over and over in these threads.

Is it worth pointing out that in offering the GTC transaction, CCP makes no more money than they would if everyone buying GTCs with ISK were to pay for their accounts with cash?

---

GTC trading is just a fancy name for RMT

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld

---

The whole topic is about CCP being hypocrites.

I accept that it might be appealing to some customers, or that it has some advantages. But, in the end it is still RMT.

GTC trading is just a fancy name for RMT

Don't try to deny that, it is a fact.

CCP should stop trying to be the holy knights on the subject of macros/RMT etc.

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld

---

The whole topic is about CCP being hypocrites.

I accept that it might be appealing to some customers, or that it has some advantages. But, in the end it is still RMT.

GTC trading is just a fancy name for RMT

Don't try to deny that, it is a fact.

CCP should stop trying to be the holy knights on the subject of macros/RMT etc.

---

Economics. You should try it.

---

Originally by: Avon

---

Le Skunk, how about you enlighten us as to who is buying all these codes, and what you think they are doing with all that gametime?

---

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld

---

?

---

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin

---

Originally by: Avon

---

Le Skunk, how about you enlighten us as to who is buying all these codes, and what you think they are doing with all that gametime?

---

I think that his hypothesis may be that "they" (ooo spooky) are out to take on the world... I mean, sell those GTC:s for OOG money. Farm ISK, buy GTC:s, sell GTC:s for money. Ergo: Farming ISK = Money.

---

Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

---

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin

---

Originally by: Avon

---

Le Skunk, how about you enlighten us as to who is buying all these codes, and what you think they are doing with all that gametime?

---

I think that his hypothesis may be that "they" (ooo spooky) are out to take on the world... I mean, sell those GTC:s for OOG money. Farm ISK, buy GTC:s, sell GTC:s for money. Ergo: Farming ISK = Money.

---

Chinese farmers buy the gametime codes with thier farmed isk. The real players, the people who work full time for a living are the ones who buy those codes for real life money for the isk. CCP is in fact helping the farmers, the people who sell the isk, by allowing GTCs.

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

If the users are selling GTCs, why don't they just not sell them to someone who looks like a farmer? They can refuse a sale at their discretion.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a policy that would do less harm and more good than allowing GTC sales.

It's pointless whining about GTC for ISK unless you can suggest an alternative.

Regulating the system to stop really large sales seems reasonable at first - someone suggested allowing no more than 180 days per month which is fairly liberal - but how do you stop people just using spare accounts to get around this limit?

Just banning GTC sales will of course drive people straight into the arms of the RMT isk sellers, as well as kicking out the many people who rely on buying GTC for ISK.

---

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld

---

Economic problems such inflation due to the new demand for farmers are irrelevant, because CCP can play god with EVE economics using methods such as lowering insurance payout, adding more taxes etc...

---

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld

---

"There will always be whatever bad thing" is not a justification for not fighting the whatever bad thing.

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

---

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin

---

Originally by: Avon

---

Le Skunk, how about you enlighten us as to who is buying all these codes, and what you think they are doing with all that gametime?

---

I think that his hypothesis may be that "they" (ooo spooky) are out to take on the world... I mean, sell those GTC:s for OOG money. Farm ISK, buy GTC:s, sell GTC:s for money. Ergo: Farming ISK = Money.

---

Chinese farmers buy the gametime codes with thier farmed isk. The real players, the people who work full time for a living are the ones who buy those codes for real life money for the isk. CCP is in fact helping the farmers, the people who sell the isk, by allowing GTCs.

---

But when you purchase a GTC through the secure method you can't sell it for cash.

---

Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

---

They pay for their gametime with the isk they farm. I said nothing about cash. I spend my cash to buy GTCs and sell them to chinese farmers for thier isk. Thus CCP is supporting Chinese farmers playing for free. Look at the names and characters of the people who buy GTCs. Many are obvious ISK farmers. Your defense of CCP makes it quite transparent who you work for.

---

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a policy that would do less harm and more good than allowing GTC sales.

It's pointless whining about GTC for ISK unless you can suggest an alternative.

Regulating the system to stop really large sales seems reasonable at first - someone suggested allowing no more than 180 days per month which is fairly liberal - but how do you stop people just using spare accounts to get around this limit?

Just banning GTC sales will of course drive people straight into the arms of the RMT isk sellers, as well as kicking out the many people who rely on buying GTC for ISK.

---

"There will always be whatever bad thing" is not a justification for not fighting the whatever bad thing.

---

Originally by: Ehranavaar

---

Originally by: Quelque Chose

---

Current average for 30 day GTC is about 160 mil. 30 day gtc costs $15 US. 90bn ISK = ~600 gtc = $9000 US.

Please show me the guy who spends 9 grand a day on a video game as I need somebody new to mooch off of.

---

more to the point what would a person do with 90 billion a day pouring in? what could you possibly spend it on?

---

Originally by: Iron Ball

---

Originally by: Ehranavaar

---

Originally by: Quelque Chose

---

Current average for 30 day GTC is about 160 mil. 30 day gtc costs $15 US. 90bn ISK = ~600 gtc = $9000 US.

Please show me the guy who spends 9 grand a day on a video game as I need somebody new to mooch off of.

---

more to the point what would a person do with 90 billion a day pouring in? what could you possibly spend it on?

---

With 90 billion A day you could rule EVE. With 90 billion on one day you could cause some serious damage to other players.

---

Originally by: Comrade Commizzar

---

Why Skunk..... Why would they have a problem with this imbalance, when they gave the T2 means of producing the main combat ships out in a lottery?... when the isk generated by the T2 monopoly enabled the further building of Alliances that have exclusive control and use of most of the strategically useful T2 BPOs? When this ship cost advantage was then allowed to remain long enough to build Capital Ship Alliances that now control the best moon mining areas of zero space?....

GTCs are completely consistent with CCP's concept of game balance design, which is to say "totally screwed up".

Forward the Revolution!

---

Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

---

Just because you disagree does not mean he is mistaken. I personally feel he is 100% correct and you are the one who is mistaken.

---

Originally by: Cutie Chaser

---

Originally by: Siresa Talesi

---

I see this same mistaken idea over and over and over in these threads.

Is it worth pointing out that in offering the GTC transaction, CCP makes no more money than they would if everyone buying GTCs with ISK were to pay for their accounts with cash?

---

But... they can't all pay by cash. Everytime a thread about GTC sales being removed people crawl out of the woodwork crying that GTCs are their only option.

Hence, CCP gets to keep on those people who are only able to pay by ISK by having another person buy the GTC by proxy.

I agree that this is in a way a good thing, but the problem could just as easily be solved by implementing more methods through which people can pay.

So, you are mistaken, CCP DOES get to line their pockets for the trouble. They get the monies of all the popele who 'cannot' pay through any other method.

---

Originally by: Kneebone

---

What you are forgetting is that the 3.5 Million USD that CCP makes from GTC is 3.5 Million USD they do not make from the accounts that had the GTC applied to them. That is a zero balence. The ONLY time that CCP comes out ahead in such a transaction is if the person who bought the GTC cancels his account before the GTC expires.

---

Originally by: Le Skunk

---

Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 00:25:42
Another CCP sugar coated dev blog regarding the "nasty evil isk sellers" had the usual couple of things in it that didnt sit quite right.

There was an odor of something fishy. And i dont mean the tuna and anchovie that drips out of the end of their free CCP gourmet rolls and splatters all over their keyboard.

So I jumped on over to the Timecode Bizaree and took a look at the volumes of cards that were being trafficd. Remember, these are not cards bought by a player to take advantage of exchange rates to fund their own subscriptions. They are bought by players to lazy or incompetant or lackluster to earn the isk for themselves in game - and instead take the shortcut to riches - gaining a huge advantage over players who choose the honest in game route to slowley building up their empires.

I took a look at one random page of posts. In that page,

36 time codes were sold with an average value of 258 million isk each.
Over 9 Billion isk sold on the page.
1100 dollars US worth of codes.

Thats quite a lot of isk being sold you might think.... well here is the kicker.

There are 11 similar pages for the day

A quick check of the other pages revealed a similar amount being sold each page. A quick check through the year also yielded similar amounts.

Thats 10 thousand dollars a day flowing into CCPs coffers.

3.5 million dollars a year.

Its also 90 Billion isk flowing unearned into peoples coffers per day - rubbishing CCP Gimnis statement that

Quote:

---

Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.

---

If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory.

Quote:

---

Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money.

---

They might want to consider that their own 'legal secure method' gives people the opportunity to do just that.

In a war with another corporation and lose your carrier in a hard thought out and bitterly fought out engagement with some players who dont buy isk? Simply flog 5 GTC and get another. Use it tommorow and its a slap in their face tee-hee. Isnt life fun.

Its a further indication of how business rules over ethics for many at CCP - despite their protestations.

This is all well and good. CCP is a business - in it to make money. They create a good product. Many aspects of the game are very good. Their GM's in particular have been top notch in all my dealings with them.

Just dont go all holier then thou on us and release patronising dev posts like that one - when you yourself are rolling in "evil" bought isk dollars.

SKUNK

---

Originally by: Tzar'rim

---

How about we sum it up and close this thread down by saying to CCP that we don't like RMT's either and would be happy to see them go. But the way CCP has packaged it with a PR sauce saying that they do it because they love us all so much is over the top and partly a lie.

And, tbfh, a big insult to our collective intellect.

---

Originally by: Tzar'rim

---

How about we sum it up and close this thread down by saying to CCP that we don't like RMT's either and would be happy to see them go. But the way CCP has packaged it with a PR sauce saying that they do it because they love us all so much is over the top and partly a lie.

And, tbfh, a big insult to our collective intellect.

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

The point remain: If i sell 1000 euros of GTC, I actually injected in the game money like if I have bought it from a web site, because:

1. I get ISK istantly and without doing nothing.
2. I get ISK from real money.
3. I can use these ISK to replace any loss and make the difference above any player or ALLIANCE that DO NOT HAVE the real money for buy ISK also.

Can a CCP employer answer to this?

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

The point remain: If i sell 1000 euros of GTC, I actually injected in the game money like if I have bought it from a web site, because:

1. I get ISK istantly and without doing nothing.
2. I get ISK from real money.
3. I can use these ISK to replace any loss and make the difference above any player or ALLIANCE that DO NOT HAVE the real money for buy ISK also.

Can a CCP employer answer to this?

---

I can answer it.

ISK is not injected into the game because YOU have it as opposed to someone else. ISK is injected into the game when you complete a mission or kill an NPC with a bounty. That is caused an ISK faucet.

Purchasing a GTC from a normal player has a neutral economic impact because that player earned his ISK at a certain rate - i.e. he spend X hours making that ISK.

Purchasing ISK from farmers has a negative impact on the economy because it directly supports their operations. Why is that bad? Farmers, unlike normal players, do not "play" EVE in the normal sense. They use cheap labor or macro programs to constantly earn ISK at maximum efficiency 23/7, primarily through missions or 0.0 ratting.

That means that, assuming a normal player earns ISK that way 3 hours a day, each farmer has EIGHT times the impact on inflation. Assuming farmers make up 10% of the population, they are DOUBLING the inflationary pressure on the economy. And high inflation is bad for reasons that are outside the scope of this argument.

---

Originally by: PhantomMajor

---

Edited by: PhantomMajor on 09/04/2008 16:22:32

Quote:

---

EVE Online is the only MMORPG where if you convert the in-game currency to dollars, its the only game where a regular player can farm $4 or more per hour worth of currency.

---

well that's not quite true, in the online game "Second Life" you can buy and sell in game money called Linden Dollars the exchange rate is something like 250 in game dollars for one US dollar.

the fact is, if ccp did the same ( different exchange rates would have to apply) then they would have more incoming revenue instead of the real money going to the farmers. not only that, but by having ccp set the exchange rate to a very low ammount it would be unprofitable for the macro miners and isk farmers to sell isk online and so would remove them from the game.

just as in a real economy, sometimes governments have to take drastic action and devalue their currency in order to protect economic growth. the same needs to be done here now as the isk farmers have caused so much damage to the in game market place to the point it isn't worth making or producing items as the profit margins are so low.... you only have to look at the salvage market, the parts are worth more than the rigs they can be used to make.

punishing isk buyers isn't the real answer, from what i have seen irl i know 4 people who play eve online and 3 of them have bought isk on the net, so it proves that it is a wide spread problem hence the reason why ccp doesn't ban everyone who has done it, they simply wouldn't have a customer base left.

ccp created this problem by not selling isk to people, so people simply went to some one that could, a classic case of supply and demand. if i have a choice of a game card or isk, i'll buy the isk.

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

If i am rich, i can sustain my alliance / corp with REAL MONEY. It is not important if i get ISK from good eve players or bad... I am getting the ISK for real money, all the ISK i want, only throught dollars or euros, so actually, I can buy eve stuff for real money, and CCP allow this openly.

---

Originally by: Le Skunk

---

stuff

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

If i am rich, i can sustain my alliance / corp with REAL MONEY. It is not important if i get ISK from good eve players or bad... I am getting the ISK for real money, all the ISK i want, only throught dollars or euros, so actually, I can buy eve stuff for real money, and CCP allow this openly.

---

Well that's true - no one is debating that (I'm not anyway).

But the alternative is to have the farmers responsible for all of the RMT trade in EVE. Assuming that GTCs make up 50-75% of the RMT trade and the farmers make up the other 25-50%, if the GTC trade was eliminated inflation caused by farmers would increase by 300-400%, and the economy would go to **** very quickly. I imagine that no one wants to pay 300 million ISK for a T1 battleship.

The GTC trade sucks because it allows players to fund their EVE operations with real money, reducing the effect of loss inflicted in PvP - that much I agree with. The GTC trade does, however, allow some players to play EVE when they would not be able to afford it otherwise, and keeps the farmers in check. It's the lesser of two evils.

---

Originally by: Almente

---

Edited by: Almente on 09/04/2008 23:01:05

Originally by: Tzar'rim

---

How about we sum it up and close this thread down by saying to CCP that we don't like RMT's either and would be happy to see them go. But the way CCP has packaged it with a PR sauce saying that they do it because they love us all so much is over the top and partly a lie.

And, tbfh, a big insult to our collective intellect.

---

Do you really think, that the company, who is 100% interested in it own income would ever remove 3.6m $ from it for any reason? CCP did a mechanism, then a rich RL guy may buy 4 years old char, practice for a while and change his ships every day with no worries at all. So... now EVE is like any other games, there you could buy for $ anything you need (3 titan pilots with titans? Not a problem). CCP just want to keep it income at max level, that's all.
Why do I writing this? Everybody know it... Prolly because of last innocent devblog?
P.S. I copied this devblog, it has to be in EVE history pages!

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

CCP have to avoid all farming, sellers and GTC, not only the one that like to them.

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

CCP have to avoid all farming, sellers and GTC, not only the one that like to them.

---

Okay, so until they figure out how to do that, how are you going to keep the economy from failing?

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

CCP have to avoid all farming, sellers and GTC, not only the one that like to them.

---

Okay, so until they figure out how to do that, how are you going to keep the economy from failing?

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 09/04/2008 23:00:03

Originally by: Tzar'rim

---

How about we sum it up and close this thread down by saying to CCP that we don't like RMT's either and would be happy to see them go. But the way CCP has packaged it with a PR sauce saying that they do it because they love us all so much is over the top and partly a lie.

And, tbfh, a big insult to our collective intellect.

---

Why ppl have to stop farming when CCP farm ISK constantly for real money? In my opinion Tranquility have to be TOTALLY separated from real world. There have to be NO WAY to trade REAL MONEY for ISK, even GTC.

Read the dev blog regarding RMT. It is just ridiculous. Only a total ******** can accept such stupidity and ipochrisy.

The point remain: If i sell 1000 euros of GTC, I actually injected in the game money like if I have bought it from a web site, because:

1. I get ISK istantly and without doing nothing.
2. I get ISK for real money.
3. I can use these ISK to replace any loss and make the difference above any player or ALLIANCE that DO NOT HAVE the real money for buy ISK also.

Can a CCP employer answer to this?

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

Originally by: Tarminic

---

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

---

The point remain: If i sell 1000 euros of GTC, I actually injected in the game money like if I have bought it from a web site, because:

1. I get ISK istantly and without doing nothing.
2. I get ISK from real money.
3. I can use these ISK to replace any loss and make the difference above any player or ALLIANCE that DO NOT HAVE the real money for buy ISK also.

Can a CCP employer answer to this?

---

I can answer it.

ISK is not injected into the game because YOU have it as opposed to someone else. ISK is injected into the game when you complete a mission or kill an NPC with a bounty. That is caused an ISK faucet.

Purchasing a GTC from a normal player has a neutral economic impact because that player earned his ISK at a certain rate - i.e. he spend X hours making that ISK.

Purchasing ISK from farmers has a negative impact on the economy because it directly supports their operations. Why is that bad? Farmers, unlike normal players, do not "play" EVE in the normal sense. They use cheap labor or macro programs to constantly earn ISK at maximum efficiency 23/7, primarily through missions or 0.0 ratting.

That means that, assuming a normal player earns ISK that way 3 hours a day, each farmer has EIGHT times the impact on inflation. Assuming farmers make up 10% of the population, they are DOUBLING the inflationary pressure on the economy. And high inflation is bad for reasons that are outside the scope of this argument.

---

Man, pls, the point remain:

If i am rich, i can sustain my alliance / corp with REAL MONEY. It is not important if i get ISK from good eve players or bad... I am getting the ISK for real money, all the ISK i want, only throught dollars or euros, so actually, I can buy eve stuff for real money, and CCP allow this openly.

---

Originally by: RedClaws

---

Hi,

I'm a multimillion dollar company owner that has retired and I still make over 100k dollars a month. I certainly don't spend all of that in a month but I try.

I play eve a lot but I don't like the isk gathering part so I simply buy about 5000 dollars of GTC's a month and sell them: 350 gtc's or about 61 bil isk a month.

I continuously buy all the nice officer items on contracts, mess with the market whenever I feel like it and sometimes I donate a titan to my alliance (I think i've donated like 5 now)

So I just fly around in officer fitted faction battleships ganking people in lowsec or when pvping in 0.0 I use a mothership. If I lose it it's not a problem since I got 15 more in my hanger.

I hope I'm not messing up your game too much by letting my alliance own everybody else but then again most of you are in empire mining veldspar for 1 mil isk an hour right?

CCP says it's ok so you can't stop me.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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I don't think a single player in all of eve has 90 billion isk in which to fund your ignorant arguments.
and if they do tyhey are a huge allaince and they won't give it to you because then would have to buy isk.

/face plam.

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Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

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Also, in response of the other guy, if i have 15 accounts, i have a clear advantage over a 1 man account, but i have to OPERATE THESE 15 ACCOUNTS. GTC give me immedaite and automatic power, without the need i do nothing.

15 accounts allow me to mine much better, but actually I HAVE TO MINE! GTC require only my credit card! That sick exactly as sellers, so yes, CCP is Ipocr.

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Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

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...

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Quote:

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I can TOTALLY ACCEPT THIS SYSTEM BY CCP, but i do not want to read some ****ty dev blogs like the last one. If you are a bastard and a greed, you have to say it, not covering yourself behind false moralism.

So for me, if GTC are ok, farmers are even more ok!

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Originally by: Tzar'rim

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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I don't think a single player in all of eve has 90 billion isk in which to fund your ignorant arguments.
and if they do tyhey are a huge allaince and they won't give it to you because then would have to buy isk.

/face plam.

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You're so wrong.

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Originally by: Pang Grohl

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Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale

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Also, in response of the other guy, if i have 15 accounts, i have a clear advantage over a 1 man account, but i have to OPERATE THESE 15 ACCOUNTS. GTC give me immedaite and automatic power, without the need i do nothing.

15 accounts allow me to mine much better, but actually I HAVE TO MINE! GTC require only my credit card! That sick exactly as sellers, so yes, CCP is Ipocr.

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Two accounts gives you an immediate advantage over anyone with one account, especially when you consider the functional value of an extra character. A second account gives more advantage than any amount of ISK can give.

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Quote:

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3.6 Million Dollar per year isk seller fingered... its CCP!

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Quote:

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3.6 Million Dollar per year isk seller fingered... its the people that play the game!

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Originally by: RedClaws

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Hi,

I'm a multimillion dollar company owner that has retired and I still make over 100k dollars a month. I certainly don't spend all of that in a month but I try.

I play eve a lot but I don't like the isk gathering part so I simply buy about 5000 dollars of GTC's a month and sell them: 350 gtc's or about 61 bil isk a month.

I continuously buy all the nice officer items on contracts, mess with the market whenever I feel like it and sometimes I donate a titan to my alliance (I think i've donated like 5 now)

So I just fly around in officer fitted faction battleships ganking people in lowsec or when pvping in 0.0 I use a mothership. If I lose it it's not a problem since I got 15 more in my hanger.

I hope I'm not messing up your game too much by letting my alliance own everybody else but then again most of you are in empire mining veldspar for 1 mil isk an hour right?

CCP says it's ok so you can't stop me.

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