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Shannia Star New Eden Yards	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:22:00 - [1] What happened to teh price of shuttles? They used to be everywhere for 9000isk each now they are all near the million mark and over. NPC stop making them?
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:22:00 - [2] yup, npcs stopped making them. -- Ralara / Ralarina VOTE FOR RALARA AS YOUR CSM REPRESENTATIVE, AND RECEIVE A COUPON FOR A 10% DISCOUNT AT WORLD OF WARCRAFT. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=74811
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:23:00 - [3] Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. Time for us manufacturers to start building.... Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Ralara yup, npcs stopped making them. Those useless shuttle BPO's now have value. :)
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Ralara yup, npcs stopped making them. Those useless shuttle BPO's now have value. :) I actually have a fully researched one.... but it's stuck in CJ6-MT from 2006 (along with 45 shuttles that are awaiting my collection from the factory line!!!!! ) -- Ralara / Ralarina VOTE FOR RALARA AS YOUR CSM REPRESENTATIVE, AND RECEIVE A COUPON FOR A 10% DISCOUNT AT WORLD OF WARCRAFT. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=74811
Turzyx	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:26:00 - [6] Ooooo yeah... come to daddy, veldspar
Svalentine2 Minmatar Death's Legion Academy	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. Time for us manufacturers to start building.... Seriously? I have a few dozen shuttles spread out here and there. Time to put them up for sale Sval
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:38:00 - [8] If shuttles are up near the million ISK point, then that would mean that trit is averaging about 200 ISK per unit, wouldn't it?
Ch Tang	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Turzyx Ooooo yeah... come to daddy, veldspar QFT.
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Turzyx Ooooo yeah... come to daddy, veldspar Chribba Alt detected! The Tchell Dahhn Manifesto
Tressin Khiyne Minmatar Interstellar Vacation Center	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:45:00 - [11] GAH! I just trashed like 20 shuttles to clean up my assets. -- There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:56:00 - [12] I love it. For more then a year I kept up buy orders at 500-1k isk for all 4 shuttles... thousands in stock :) Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:00:00 - [13] I've put a blockade on selling minerals to NPC corps. My apologies. I might rethink supplying them again if they get me those Capital Mining Lasers. Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar?

Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Terminus adacai I love it. For more then a year I kept up buy orders at 500-1k isk for all 4 shuttles... thousands in stock :) The question is: are they gonna be worth more as shuttles or perfectly refined into tritanium? Probably worth saving most until trit prices peak. Bandures > Tommy, you like a cowboy harry )
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:06:00 - [15] Instead of inconvenience everyone, why wouldn't they just decrease the amount of trit that can be refined from a shuttle? I guess we'll all just have to use cheap frigs like atrons to move around now... going to miss always being able to get a shuttle.
Wolverine Quick	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:06:00 - [16] So far all Trit in jita was bought out in about 20 minutes.. Buy order for 4.02 and climing.. I enjoyed slapping buys in for trit and cleaned out two regions. I have another 2 billion im going to use also...TRIT is gonna slam headlong into 4.5 plus making everything in the game that much more expensive. Pyerite prices will rise as they are from the same rock Id look for 6+ on that in the next week according to the big money traders im talking to. People will be buying high trit volume ships and refining them down including passive targeters which were selling for 30k and are now selling for 50k +. Shuttles will now be a market that will far surpass the actual value of trit as people were so used to buying them that they will pay for the convience of having them. More miners in high sec now making more money then people in low sec because trit and pye prices will rise. I LOVE CCP U BUNCH OF FREAKS I LOVEEEE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:11:00 - [17] Time to mine some Veldspar.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:14:00 - [18] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/04/2008 20:14:59 Mein Hulk could now smsahed. Hulk go to Oimmo. Smash sasmhs smsash. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Benco97 Gallente Exchangable Properties	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:14:00 - [19] One day...one day the price of the Burst will skyrocket and THEN WE'LL SEE WHO'S LAUGHING! Originally by: Kirjava This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
CobraBytez GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/04/2008 20:14:59 Mein Hulk could now smsahed. Hulk go to Oimmo. Smash sasmhs smsash. keep me updated on that hulk's location
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:21:00 - [21] all eyes are on jennies hulk =P
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:21:00 - [22] Man...I am really, really going to miss cheap shuttles available in every station. I cannot count how many times I have found myself needing to zip somewhere else and having shuttles handy was great. Of course I have pined for removal of price caps and a more free market. Careful what you wish for I guess. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Smantha Dering Caldari Sam's Space Guys	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:22:00 - [23] In inhenges I am better off buying a bantam at 40k than a shuttle at 500k.
hilaw	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:24:00 - [24] If this is for real its going to make traveling a pain, can i please have a "remove my pod from the ship" button if it is? (can't log in atm to check)
Janjan Jansen Amarr Noob Mercs	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:27:00 - [25] Sounds like it's time to train all races frigates to lvl 3 so you can allways buy a cheap ship
Tressin Khiyne Minmatar Interstellar Vacation Center	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:28:00 - [26] Edited by: Tressin Khiyne on 15/04/2008 20:28:56 Originally by: hilaw If this is for real its going to make traveling a pain, can i please have a "remove my pod from the ship" button if it is? (can't log in atm to check) I think you're looking for the "Leave Ship" option, which does exist. -- There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:31:00 - [27] Leaving the ship is great for in system travel, do it all the time. If you travel in length in your pod... well... Some smacky in an Ibis will blow you up laughing all the way at your implants going poof with zero consequence.
Rubra J. S. Bach In memoriam	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:32:00 - [28] Sweet! I can go back to selling shuttles for 11 million ISK like I used to do back in '03 and having people actually buy them.
Neesa Corrinne Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:33:00 - [29] This is going to create logistical nightmares.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:34:00 - [30] Edited by: Mister Xerox on 15/04/2008 20:35:28 It's a macro mining wet dream! Untouchable and now the non-english speaking mining mobs will come out of the woodwork like fleas. Nice one CCP, way to support the customers who actually like to play the game and curtail the RMT macros... yeah. Go Goonswarm... Meh. Can't we at least wardec NPC corps now??? Or do we have to rely on goonswarm's non-selective targeting of miners to keep macros under control?
DroneBay Diva AbChao Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:43:00 - [31] Stealth Chribba boost detected. _____________________________________________________________________________
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:48:00 - [32] Wouldn't it have been simpler to just make shuttles not refine into anything? Then we could still have our convenient transport for those little jaunts we all take sooner or later as well as removing the price cap. While it is nice players can add making shuttles to a potentially worthwhile endeavor that is one item I think was better in the NPC sphere to allow for (mostly) uniform coverage. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:48:00 - [33] Originally by: DroneBay Diva Stealth Chribba boost detected. Nerf Veldspar, its overpowered! -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:53:00 - [34] Dang. I always liked shuttles as a last resort public-service transport, available anywhere. If I have to buy the ruddy thing for near a million isk, I might as well just use frigates instead... Funny though. Saw a Letter To The Editor in the newspaper earlier with exactly the same title as the OP, only with "bread". EVE really is Real World Lite... ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noir. Tread Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:58:00 - [35] Wow, awesome. That's cool that there is no artificial limit on veldspar prices now. Not that I'm a miner, but a more dynamic economy is a good thing. If the price gets high enough, more people will mine it and the price will stabilize.
Iracham Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:03:00 - [36] Artificial price cap bad. Cheap shuttles everywhere good. This is teh dumb.
Selene Bork Caldari Order of the Argent Shroud	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:04:00 - [37] Nerf Chribba, he's getting to powerfull ! Hehe only joking
Sirius Problem Darkness Inc. Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:06:00 - [38] Even more reason for bears to stay in hi-sec. Nice one CCP. What happened to the effort to make low-sec more, not less, attractive? ---- I am Super Cool
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:11:00 - [39] Bad move, before long everyone will be flying noob ships instead. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Wendat Huron Bad move, before long everyone will be flying noob ships instead. You can't refine n00b ships for trit. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Wendat Huron Bad move, before long everyone will be flying noob ships instead. You can't refine n00b ships for trit. Who cares? If people need to get places they'll bop around in pods or noob ships, the shuttle is dead. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:17:00 - [42] Originally by: Tarminic You can't refine n00b ships for trit. So why didn't they just do that to shuttles? Being able to grab a shuttle anywhere is going to be missed I think.
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:18:00 - [43] -.-; Shuttles for 1 mil. That won't last long. Pretty soon the price will be sub-10k in empire. Availability will be the issue. They are cheap as heck to make. /me dusts off his shuttle BPO I knew this would come in handy eventually :P
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Tarminic You can't refine n00b ships for trit. So why didn't they just do that to shuttles? Being able to grab a shuttle anywhere is going to be missed I think. Why make static content more static when you can make it more player driven? Unfortunately the side effect is that this will annoy people until the markets are populated again. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Tarminic You can't refine n00b ships for trit. So why didn't they just do that to shuttles? Being able to grab a shuttle anywhere is going to be missed I think. Why make static content more static when you can make it more player driven? Unfortunately the side effect is that this will annoy people until the markets are populated again. Ah, you're missing the bigger problem. The only reason people really flew shuttles was because they were essentially free. If a shuttle isn't essentially free any more (less than 50k, say), people will just use something else (noob ships or pods if they want something free, frigs if they want to pay for something). The shuttle (a not particularly fast, badly armoured ship with no slots and no redeeming features other than price and availability) is a dead donkey. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Iracham Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:24:00 - [46] Raising the npc price of shuttles to say, 50k, would effectively uncap trit, while not annoying the smeg out of everybody for the next 2 weeks. Also, WHY ARE CHANGES LIKE THIS NOT IN THE PATCH NOTES?
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:24:00 - [47] I had this crazy idea to buy every shuttle in Jita 4-4 the other day. I don't even know why. I didn't do it and now I am sad I think the better option would have been to make them not give a noteworthy amount of trit. Join The Muffin Factory
Ikserak tai Caldari Ghengis Tia Corp	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:25:00 - [48] Any news on a move in price of Tritanium would be appreciated, as Eve-Central is not current enough after the patch. I won't be able to logon in-game until later tonight.... Thanks in advance... YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Tarminic Why make static content more static when you can make it more player driven? Unfortunately the side effect is that this will annoy people until the markets are populated again. I can see where you're coming from on that one but (hopefully) without stirring up the hornets' nest of RL political economic hullaballoo I think this is going to be one of those cases where the private sector isn't going to do nearly as good a job. There's no way the free market is going to cover every station and doesn't that severely limit the shuttle's appeal? I could be wrong I guess, it's probably worth finding out anyway. But yeah, regardless it's going to be pretty entertaining for a couple of weeks.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:32:00 - [50] Originally by: Patch86 Ah, you're missing the bigger problem. The only reason people really flew shuttles was because they were essentially free. Free and almost universally available which to me is almost more an issue than the cost (as long as cost is not too high). Mostly it was the convenience factor. While I appreciate what Tarminic is getting at unless shuttles are seeded in every system in most every station by players (extremely doubtful) then the shuttle will lose acceptance. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:35:00 - [51] Posting ... now. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:38:00 - [52] Originally by: Iracham Raising the npc price of shuttles to say, 50k, would effectively uncap trit, while not annoying the smeg out of everybody for the next 2 weeks. Also, WHY ARE CHANGES LIKE THIS NOT IN THE PATCH NOTES? Large Control Towers Small Tractor Beam Blueprint I Those who've been around know what happened with those and patch notes.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:40:00 - [53] Shuttles had stopped being a factor if only the NPC price had been hiked to 50-100k and possibly their cargohold at least doubled to justify the increase but with this sledgehammer nerf they're quite useless. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Iracham Also, WHY ARE CHANGES LIKE THIS NOT IN THE PATCH NOTES? Actually if you look it seems like they snuck the change into the notes after DT. Presumably they did not want people running around buying a million shuttles with news of this beforehand (just a guess). -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Ikserak tai Caldari Ghengis Tia Corp	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:44:00 - [55] Price of Tritanium in Jita is now 6.15 Isk. Most regions are climbing over the 5.0 Isk mark. Quantities were hoarded and now being put on market at significantly higher prices. Think the asteroid belts will be full this weekend???? YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:49:00 - [56] Originally by: Ikserak tai Price of Tritanium in Jita is now 6.15 Isk. Most regions are climbing over the 5.0 Isk mark. Quantities were hoarded and now being put on market at significantly higher prices. Think the asteroid belts will be full this weekend???? I don't see that lasting very long tbh.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Ikserak tai Price of Tritanium in Jita is now 6.15 Isk. Most regions are climbing over the 5.0 Isk mark. Quantities were hoarded and now being put on market at significantly higher prices. Think the asteroid belts will be full this weekend???? I don't see that lasting very long tbh. You mean with barges being constantly suicided on en masse? These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Ikserak tai Caldari Ghengis Tia Corp	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:02:00 - [58] Barges? I mean everyone with turret slots and miner I's who want in on the gold rush. Everyone who are used to buying their trit to mfr ships will think twice and maybe go get their own. Besides, there are lots of out of the way places Jihadswarm can't possibly cover. Does the "may you live in interesting times" apply here? YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Wendat Huron You mean with barges being constantly suicided on en masse? That's hype, nothing to see there. Although it just occurred to me if they're going to do this they need to change the way shuttles appear in the market window. Instead of Ships -> Shuttles -> Racial Shuttle -> the one and only model that appears in that category; it should just be Ships -> Shuttles, whereupon you get shown the list of four. It was clunky and ridiculous before, doubly so now.
Shaun Klaroh	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:16:00 - [60] A price cap on Tritanium is damaging to the economy. Let alone with recent issues surrounding Goonswarm, this may deter them only slightly with increased Tritanium costs.
Falcon Troy Caldari Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:22:00 - [61] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 15/04/2008 22:22:31 Reinstate NPC shuttles. Make them refine into nothing. There's no way the players will be able to fill every station in EVE with shuttles and that severely limits the convenience that shuttles are supposed to provide in the first place: Cheap, available, and fast transportation. Nothing more or less. _____________ Hai.
Shaun Klaroh	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:24:00 - [62] Why not travel in an egg? Aren't they just a little faster in regards to warping?
Chinger Caldari Mentis Fidelis R-I-P	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:26:00 - [63] Originally by: Shaun Klaroh Why not travel in an egg? Aren't they just a little faster in regards to warping? They are, but one rogue smartbomb and pop
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Shaun Klaroh Why not travel in an egg? Aren't they just a little faster in regards to warping? They align quicker but only travel at 3 AU/s instead of 6 AU/s. Also, if you need to afk/autopilot for whatever reason, the shuttle moves much quicker sublight. CCP should just make it so you can't leave your ship and voluntarily pod around, like the old days. With the lack of availability of shuttles, it would be worth it for the lols, and follows their logical patterns anyways. ---- WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO
Kairusen Laidan Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:44:00 - [65] Edited by: Kairusen Laidan on 15/04/2008 22:44:08 Price cap removal = Excellent - remember this will massively boost the legitimate economy as well, so most of the minimal increase that macro scum get will be negated by the fact that everyone else gets the same increases [kinda, I think - I'm no economist ] Shuttles now costing 10x more and being harder to find = bad! I rely on these bad boys to shuttle between my mission running bases and my minin' base. Still it's finally an excuse to use ol' Rusty the Condor
Viral Shadow Amarr The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:45:00 - [66] give it a few days and shuttle prices are surely to drop. but hey who knows maybe now people will take the effort to actually haul those massive hauler spawns in 0.0 with 50 mill trit.
Shaun Klaroh	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:46:00 - [67] Originally by: Chinger Originally by: Shaun Klaroh Why not travel in an egg? Aren't they just a little faster in regards to warping? They are, but one rogue smartbomb and pop That's the price you pay for not buying a shuttle. Sorry, that's Capitalism for you.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:50:00 - [68] hell yeah forces of supply and demand in action -----------
Shaun Klaroh	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:51:00 - [69] It's not like the 8million price war will last. I mean, eventually it will drop to more sane and reasonable levels. Prices will fluctuate based on availability, meaning outer-systems might have issues buying them, but that only puts pressure on convoys to have better security when going out there to put 'em up for sale.
Mike Rowlings Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:54:00 - [70] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. Time for us manufacturers to start building.... Can someone explain how shuttles were used as a price cap for Trit? I've not been around long so I don't get it.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.04.15 22:58:00 - [71] Originally by: Mike Rowlings Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. Time for us manufacturers to start building.... Can someone explain how shuttles were used as a price cap for Trit? I've not been around long so I don't get it. they sold at a "fixed" npc price and could be refined - putting the gist back into logistics
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:00:00 - [72] Originally by: Mike Rowlings Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. Time for us manufacturers to start building.... Can someone explain how shuttles were used as a price cap for Trit? I've not been around long so I don't get it. Shuttles refine to give you a certain amount of trit. If you can guarantee to buy an unlimited number of shuttles at a fixed price, you're essentially guaranteeing that you can buy a bundle of trit for said fixed price, from NPCs. In this case, NPC's were guaranteed to sell unlimited shuttles at 9,000 isk (was it?) and each shuttle refines to 2,500 trit at perfect efficiency. That means you could essentially buy 1 unit of trit from NPC's for 3.6 isk a piece. That means that if the price of trit ever tried to creep above 3.6, people would just buy 1000's of shuttles and flood the market with the trit to make an instant profit, ensuring the prices never stay above that figure for long. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP SATRAPY	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:01:00 - [73] nerfing shuttle was a big mistake, we dont have interbus, and we dont have shuttles. Traveling is going to become a ***** now. Why didnt ccp just turn off refining for shuttles? My Blog
AleRiperKilt	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Mike Rowlings Can someone explain how shuttles were used as a price cap for Trit? I've not been around long so I don't get it. Hit reprocess on a shuttle and you get around 2150 Tritanium with no standings. At 9k isk/shuttle that is 9000/2150=4.19 isk the unit of tritanium. So if you needed tritanium and the price was over 4.19 isk you could just buy shuttles and reprocess them. I had 400k tritanium leftover sitting in my hangar. Just bought 3 shuttle blueprints and started cooking them --- "There is no lag in Jita, NEVER!" - Iraqi Information Minister
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:16:00 - [75] Originally by: AleRiperKilt I had 400k tritanium leftover sitting in my hangar. Just bought 3 shuttle blueprints and started cooking them I just bought a shuttle BPO as well... at 35k for the print why not? As long as there's 20% in it I'll build whatever. What I suspect is going to happen though is that shuttles will end up like most frigates (at least in high sec): not enough of them will be destroyed and with the NPC supply dried up more people will be inclined to use them briefly and then resell them. Trit price cap aside, this is probably an opportunity for bottom- feeding traders more than anything.
Draekas Darkwater Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:18:00 - [76] This change just stinks to be honest. I fully support the removal of the trit gap, but not being able to buy shuttles at every station is going to suck hard. Trying to move multiple ships to one location, without available shuttles to go back in, really blows. Making shuttles refine into 1, or 0, tritanium would have been a much better solution. Or at the very least, keep it as is, but reduce the repackaged size of shuttles to like.. 50m3. Something that easily fits into every single normal ship in the game, of all classes. So that if you want to move a bunch of frigates with rigs, ect, you can carry a shuttle along with you to go back for the next. As an unintended consequence, I think this is going to lump folks into market hubs even more and make lesser used stations, even less used.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:19:00 - [77] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Tarminic Why make static content more static when you can make it more player driven? Unfortunately the side effect is that this will annoy people until the markets are populated again. I can see where you're coming from on that one but (hopefully) without stirring up the hornets' nest of RL political economic hullaballoo I think this is going to be one of those cases where the private sector isn't going to do nearly as good a job. There's no way the free market is going to cover every station and doesn't that severely limit the shuttle's appeal? I could be wrong I guess, it's probably worth finding out anyway. But yeah, regardless it's going to be pretty entertaining for a couple of weeks. Correct. So there will be an opportunity for players to make a living supplying those stations. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:22:00 - [78] Now we just need CCP to remove every other NPC sell order and there will be a proper player driven economy. Originally by: Draekas Darkwater This change just stinks to be honest. I fully support the removal of the trit gap, but not being able to buy shuttles at every station is going to suck hard. Trying to move multiple ships to one location, without available shuttles to go back in, really blows. Maybe I'm missing something, but what stops you flying back in your pod or a rookie ship? -----------
motomysz DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:28:00 - [79] Originally by: Scatim Helicon Maybe I'm missing something, but what stops you flying back in your pod or a rookie ship? If you continue to post logically, I'll report you to Goonswarm leadership.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:30:00 - [80] Originally by: AleRiperKilt Originally by: Mike Rowlings Can someone explain how shuttles were used as a price cap for Trit? I've not been around long so I don't get it. Hit reprocess on a shuttle and you get around 2150 Tritanium with no standings. At 9k isk/shuttle that is 9000/2150=4.19 isk the unit of tritanium. So if you needed tritanium and the price was over 4.19 isk you could just buy shuttles and reprocess them. I had 400k tritanium leftover sitting in my hangar. Just bought 3 shuttle blueprints and started cooking them 9000isk/2500trit for perfect skills&standings = 3.6 isk/trit anyways... velspar now beats kernite and spodumain (although that has a bit of trit in it aswell -.-) too bad, 0.0 mining starts with gneiss/dark ochre these days. in angel regions, that requires -0.35 or lower true security status. not only are angels ugly to tank with their mix of projectile ammo especially in those systems, but suuure: let's reduce base explo shield resitances aswell. hey BoB: if you want to hurt goons e.a., may i also suggest a reduction of alloyed trit bars' value? ohwait - i hear, you just gave caldari their angel extravaganza back. </tinfoil> - putting the gist back into logistics
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:31:00 - [81] Edited by: Quelque Chose on 15/04/2008 23:34:23 Originally by: Malcanis Correct. So there will be an opportunity for players to make a living supplying those stations. Eh... not much of one tbh. I currently manufacture and sell low- end items that I judge to be profitable, but I try to keep my hauling to a minimum; I'll dump a few hundred units of [module X] at whatever location seems like a winner and make more when my stock gets low; more stops in a hauler is exactly what I don't want as it gets time consuming and mind- numbing. Moreover, shuttles are massive compared with say ammo or coprocessors or whatever. On top of that, even if you can pull a margin of 50% or more in some areas that way the real payout per unit will be so tiny as to make it not worth the effort involved; there's still a price cap on shuttles because at 30k/ ship you can just buy a frigate instead. Will somebody do it? Maybe. Won't be me though.
Xioden Acap Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:34:00 - [82] None of this changes the fact that trit prices stabalized a ways below trit prices, and at least outside of Jita, prices are still the same 2.4-3.6 million. I'm looking at about 300 million units of trit at or below 3.6/unit. Don't buy into the manipulation at Jita and in 2-3 days prices will settle right back to where they were.
Draekas Darkwater Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:38:00 - [83] Originally by: Scatim Helicon Now we just need CCP to remove every other NPC sell order and there will be a proper player driven economy. Originally by: Draekas Darkwater stuff Maybe I'm missing something, but what stops you flying back in your pod or a rookie ship? Nothing. Its just slower and much more annoying. Another unneeded, unfun time sink in a game overflowing with them already.
Mike Rowlings Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:39:00 - [84] Originally by: Draekas Darkwater This change just stinks to be honest. I fully support the removal of the trit gap, but not being able to buy shuttles at every station is going to suck hard. Trying to move multiple ships to one location, without available shuttles to go back in, really blows. Making shuttles refine into 1, or 0, tritanium would have been a much better solution. Or at the very least, keep it as is, but reduce the repackaged size of shuttles to like.. 50m3. Something that easily fits into every single normal ship in the game, of all classes. So that if you want to move a bunch of frigates with rigs, ect, you can carry a shuttle along with you to go back for the next. As an unintended consequence, I think this is going to lump folks into market hubs even more and make lesser used stations, even less used. I agree with one point: shuttles should be much smaller in size. It really doesn't make sense the need for 500m3 of volume. But I love this whole new concept of transferring control over to players. In order for the market to be truly dynamic it first has to be player-controlled. And this is the right step in that direction, IMHO.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:42:00 - [85] Originally by: Cipher7 Time to mine some Veldspar. I've been stockpiling my veldspar while I train refining skills, guess that was the right call. Yay for free market in EVE, this is gonna be awesome.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:43:00 - [86] Cool. I happen to have a minni shuttle BPO. Anyone care to buy an unarmed combat drone?
Veng3ance Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:45:00 - [87] Dumbest change ever? And thats saying A **** TON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaun Klaroh	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:47:00 - [88] Originally by: motomysz Originally by: Scatim Helicon Maybe I'm missing something, but what stops you flying back in your pod or a rookie ship? If you continue to post logically, I'll report you to Goonswarm leadership. Awww, I never got that threat. I'm so ignored. :P
motomysz DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:50:00 - [89] Originally by: Shaun Klaroh Awww, I never got that threat. I'm so ignored. :P Enable your corp/alliance ticker, or people won't even know you're a goon... they might take you semi-seriously and even read what you post.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:00:00 - [90] Edited by: Kvirie on 16/04/2008 00:03:38 I don't think shuttles will remain hard to find. I plan to sell them so when you're in the area, if you don't see any on the market, I'll see what I can do for the traveler in need.
Dronefragger	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:06:00 - [91] I can get almost 218 shuttles from one can of normal veld. time to start hoarding shuttle BPOs like no tomorrow.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:06:00 - [92] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Wouldn't it have been simpler to just make shuttles not refine into anything? Then we could still have our convenient transport for those little jaunts we all take sooner or later as well as removing the price cap. While it is nice players can add making shuttles to a potentially worthwhile endeavor that is one item I think was better in the NPC sphere to allow for (mostly) uniform coverage. The NPCs selling items at a fixed price is a bit unfair for those of us who want to work in the market, but have an insurmountable source of competition that never changes and always meets demand. I think the first mining barge I bought was NPC sold. The second was cheaper, but that player had to sell cheaper due to the npcs.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:17:00 - [93] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 16/04/2008 00:28:03 Originally by: Scatim Helicon Maybe I'm missing something, but what stops you flying back in your pod or a rookie ship? A few reasons: 1) Pods are slower...particularly to AFK in. 2) Embarrassment. Everyone assumes you got blown up. 3) No cargo. Not that shuttles had much cargo but that teeny bit was enough to be useful for many things. 4) Most important how many noob frigs do you think will start taking pot shots at passing pods for the lulz (sounds like a perfect Goon thing actually)? Heck, just look at the pilot's age and you can cost them tens of millions for the new medical clone alone. Not to mention potential implant loss which can be staggeringly expensive. Of course they need not AFK in a pod but now the option really isn't there to zoom from A to B while you get a beer and take a leak. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Sirius Problem Darkness Inc. Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:19:00 - [94] Edited by: Sirius Problem on 16/04/2008 00:19:13 Originally by: Alowishus I had this crazy idea to buy every shuttle in Jita 4-4 the other day. I don't even know why. I didn't do it and now I am sad [: One of my corpmates did this in a different system, way before the patch. His intension was to screw over the local macro miners by buying up all the shuttles, then placing them on the market at an inflated price. At the time, he did not realize that all the shuttles he bought would simply be respawned on the market by the NPCs. So here he was "stuck" with 16,000 shuttles. Over time, he's managed to sell about 4,000 of them. Now he has 12,000 shuttles and is doing a happy dance as he sees unit prices climbing to 1 million and above. While I do think that prices will come down again, at today's prices, the balance of his inventory is worth about 12 billion Not too bad considering his initial purchase was roughly 144 million. ---- I am Super Cool
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:23:00 - [95] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 16/04/2008 00:31:48 Originally by: Letrange -.-; Shuttles for 1 mil. That won't last long. Pretty soon the price will be sub-10k in empire. Availability will be the issue. They are cheap as heck to make. /me dusts off his shuttle BPO I knew this would come in handy eventually :P ditto dude ditto THANKYOU CCP Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:24:00 - [96] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 16/04/2008 00:30:46 Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 16/04/2008 00:26:56 Originally by: Kvirie The NPCs selling items at a fixed price is a bit unfair for those of us who want to work in the market, but have an insurmountable source of competition that never changes and always meets demand. I think the first mining barge I bought was NPC sold. The second was cheaper, but that player had to sell cheaper due to the npcs. I am all for players working the market and I have blathered on plenty of times about removing things like T1 loot drops to allow a player market to evolve there. I think this is a special case however. Shuttles served a utility function that made EVE easier to deal with (e.g. moving back and forth to fly several rigged ships to a new station or go grab that one mod you want 5j away rather than fly the slow ass battleship you are in). I cannot see how players can provide this in a fashion that will meet the ease of use the previous way had (being in every station). Yeah that would keep players out of this one particular item but seems a small price to pay. Who knows, maybe in time people will put shuttles on market from random zooming around and we'll get good coverage. I still think this would have been better left in the NPC realm. Note I am all for the removal of price caps. That change is good to see. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Ira Theos	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:27:00 - [97] Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 15/04/2008 22:22:31 Reinstate NPC shuttles. Make them refine into nothing. There's no way the players will be able to fill every station in EVE with shuttles and that severely limits the convenience that shuttles are supposed to provide in the first place: Cheap, available, and fast transportation. Nothing more or less. *************** Nonesense... now noobs can earn isk by just flying them to remote locations and selling them for more. For once CCP has listened to the economist and done what is good for the game model. Good job CCP.
Recon Three 181st Legion	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:28:00 - [98] I've got about 100 shuttles in random spots.. time to sell. __________
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:34:00 - [99] Originally by: Sirius Problem So here he was "stuck" with 16,000 shuttles. Over time, he's managed to sell about 4,000 of them. Now he has 12,000 shuttles and is doing a happy dance as he sees unit prices climbing to 1 million and above. Man...who the hell would buy a shuttle for 1 million? I can pick up a Tormentor for about 40,000 ISK (and doubtless every race has something about that cheap). Even the most expensive frig is only 300-400K. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:42:00 - [100] I'm wondering when Goonswarm starts targeting lone pods instead of exhumers, now that shuttles are rarer and people will possibly pod around more often.... -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
Ho HsienKo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:45:00 - [101] Good to see that EVE is starting to drop the restraints to it becoming the truly player driven world it professes to be. kudos CCP ; ] I may start logging in for more than just skill changes again.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:48:00 - [102] I wonder what the news article for this one will be.... Improve Market Competition!
Ira Theos	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:51:00 - [103] Edited by: Ira Theos on 16/04/2008 00:52:39 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Sirius Problem So here he was "stuck" with 16,000 shuttles. Over time, he's managed to sell about 4,000 of them. Now he has 12,000 shuttles and is doing a happy dance as he sees unit prices climbing to 1 million and above. Man...who the hell would buy a shuttle for 1 million? I can pick up a Tormentor for about 40,000 ISK (and doubtless every race has something about that cheap). Even the most expensive frig is only 300-400K. *************** So economic alternative utility theory says that shuttles should be priced somewhere just below the alternatives? Is that what you are saying?? Then good!! Again... good job CCP! It makes sense and improves the economy and economic opportunities for new players. (Not to mention the industrial sector. Anything that dilutes the stranglehold that the T2/Moon Mining Hegemony has on the wealth in Eve is a good thing TBFH !
Ira Theos	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:52:00 - [104] Originally by: Ho HsienKo Good to see that EVE is starting to drop the restraints to it becoming the truly player driven world it professes to be. kudos CCP ; ] I may start logging in for more than just skill changes again. ************** QFFT!! Bravo CCP!!
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 01:20:00 - [105] Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/04/2008 01:21:41 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. The idiocy of it all is that this was showing that CCP was not providing enough supply for tritanium through ingame means, they talked about all sorts of serious fixes for this, but instead settled on the easiest worst possible solution which was thought of by an economist who has no concept of what makes a game different from a real world economy. The side effect will probably be, no one goes to 0.0 or lowsec at all, mining veld in 1.0 sec will be the most profitable mining around. Edit: dropping the cap probably isn't a bad idea, but the cap shouldn't be necessary, Tritanium as the most abundant mineral in eve should be cheap, it should be cheap because there is ample supply NOT because there is a cap. If they fixed the supply issue the cap wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
Comrade Commizzar	Posted - 2008.04.16 01:42:00 - [106] Edited by: Comrade Commizzar on 16/04/2008 01:45:08 Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/04/2008 01:21:41 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. The idiocy of it all is that this was showing that CCP was not providing enough supply for tritanium through ingame means, they talked about all sorts of serious fixes for this, but instead settled on the easiest worst possible solution which was thought of by an economist who has no concept of what makes a game different from a real world economy. The side effect will probably be, no one goes to 0.0 or lowsec at all, mining veld in 1.0 sec will be the most profitable mining around. Edit: dropping the cap probably isn't a bad idea, but the cap shouldn't be necessary, Tritanium as the most abundant mineral in eve should be cheap, it should be cheap because there is ample supply NOT because there is a cap. If they fixed the supply issue the cap wouldn't be an issue in the first place. ************ What's a matter? Is the itty bitty PvP monster worried he can't really make it without the Carebears?? Or is he just reminding us all that he has been SUBSIDIZED by CCP all this time?? Hm?? Or maybe the Bourgoise T2/Moon Mining Pig is afraid of what the Proletariat of Eve might do if they get their hands on enough isk??
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.16 01:44:00 - [107] This is a good change. To whoever earlier thought rookie ships would just replace shuttles because of this change, you don't really know what you're talking about. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Pew Pewk Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.16 01:46:00 - [108] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/04/2008 20:14:59 Mein Hulk could now smsahed. Hulk go to Oimmo. Smash sasmhs smsash. Seeing Jenny's face and hearing Arnolds voice at the same time, gives me the sudden urge of taking a hot shower.. and wipe that drool off my face.
Erunamane Damage Control Inc	Posted - 2008.04.16 01:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/04/2008 01:21:41 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. The idiocy of it all is that this was showing that CCP was not providing enough supply for tritanium through ingame means, they talked about all sorts of serious fixes for this, but instead settled on the easiest worst possible solution which was thought of by an economist who has no concept of what makes a game different from a real world economy. The side effect will probably be, no one goes to 0.0 or lowsec at all, mining veld in 1.0 sec will be the most profitable mining around. Edit: dropping the cap probably isn't a bad idea, but the cap shouldn't be necessary, Tritanium as the most abundant mineral in eve should be cheap, it should be cheap because there is ample supply NOT because there is a cap. If they fixed the supply issue the cap wouldn't be an issue in the first place. I'm under the impression that if everyone moves up to 1.0 to mine velds, then the price of other minerals will rise and thus people will move again to mine it and so on until the prices equilibrate at some level for both tritanium and other minerals.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:10:00 - [110] Originally by: Shaun Klaroh A price cap on Tritanium is damaging to the economy. Let alone with recent issues surrounding Goonswarm, this may deter them only slightly with increased Tritanium costs. Other way around, the price cap on trit sustains the economy. There is a price floor on all minerals via insurance In short, by removing the cap on trit you are reducing the binding price floor on all other minerals. Since the cap on trit was binding it was acting as a tritanium infusion into the system taking out isk and inserting materials. This will result in a net loss for the economy of eve and the profitability of the majority of material producers everywhere, possibly very substantially. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:17:00 - [111] This is not good at all. Not even for industrialists. People buy shuttle for convenience. If I am not guaranteed shuttle readily avaiable below 50k, I am gonna browse market and see if fast combat frig is avaiable first. I do it often when I want to ferry a few mods to/from my other ship. Or, because EvE UI sucks horribly and browsing market is slow I rather just get a noob frig. If this move was to help industrialists and to lift the price cap on trit, NPCs would just start selling shuttles for say 50k. That way you are guaranteed your shuttle, people go for known product and if there is local supplier he has plenty of room to work in and he is guranteed that customers actually bother to look at his goods. As it is now it serves no other purpose than to create annoying time sink. Whoever came with this idea gave it no thought at all.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:20:00 - [112] Originally by: Sirius Problem So here he was "stuck" with 16,000 shuttles. Over time, he's managed to sell about 4,000 of them. Now he has 12,000 shuttles and is doing a happy dance as he sees unit prices climbing to 1 million and above. While I do think that prices will come down again, at today's prices, the balance of his inventory is worth about 12 billion Not too bad considering his initial purchase was roughly 144 million. I'm seeing lots of shuttle sell orders in the 20-30k range, nobody's going to logically pay 1mil for a shuttle unless they NEED that shuttle, and even then, they'd be able to by a frig, ab, and nano mods and go just as fast.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:26:00 - [113] Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/04/2008 01:21:41 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. The idiocy of it all is that this was showing that CCP was not providing enough supply for tritanium through ingame means, they talked about all sorts of serious fixes for this, but instead settled on the easiest worst possible solution which was thought of by an economist who has no concept of what makes a game different from a real world economy. The side effect will probably be, no one goes to 0.0 or lowsec at all, mining veld in 1.0 sec will be the most profitable mining around. Edit: dropping the cap probably isn't a bad idea, but the cap shouldn't be necessary, Tritanium as the most abundant mineral in eve should be cheap, it should be cheap because there is ample supply NOT because there is a cap. If they fixed the supply issue the cap wouldn't be an issue in the first place. Abundance means nothing if people aren't mining it. You'll see a massive rush to mine veld now, market will flood, prices will drop again, and it will eventually stabilize.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noir. Tread Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:31:00 - [114] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin CCP should just make it so you can't leave your ship and voluntarily pod around, like the old days. With the lack of availability of shuttles, it would be worth it for the lols, and follows their logical patterns anyways. I agree. Capsules are not spaceships. They are devices that let you control spaceships and keep you alive in case your ship gets blown up. You shouldn't be able to undock in a pod, IMO.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:31:00 - [115] I'm reminded of an old phrase... Much ado about nothing.
Raskor Crossflow Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:41:00 - [116] I disagree with this change completely. I am all for a player created economy but this is something that had such high utility value it deserved an exception. If they wanted to circumvent the price cap, they could have lowered or eliminated the refine. Or they could have raised the price. Even at 25k they would still serve a very useful niche. If they are going to stick with this decision, the least they can do is reduce the packaged volume so that builders can more reasonably supply the outer lying stations that don't have manufacture facilities.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:53:00 - [117] If you dont like shanks pony, undock in a pod and dock at a station where you have no ships. You will receive a free noob shift and a gratifying gift of tritanium!! (thats like 5mil isk of free stuff right there) It has ample fittings and cargo room, if you want something faster then pay for the privelege. Nothing to see here, move along...
Dapanman1 Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate The InterBus Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:54:00 - [118] THIS JUST IN, RIOTS IN THE HALLS OF JITA 4-4. SHUTTLE SHORTAGE DESTROYING EVE, MORE AT 11. They shoulda removed shuttle BPO seeds too, would have made things more interesting. Beets, you're among friends.
Richard Third Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:55:00 - [119] I use about 2-3 shuttles per play session. Now I can't. This is the worst nerf ever! -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:57:00 - [120] yet another CCP fail. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Richard Third Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.16 02:57:00 - [121] now i'm building a shuttle. I'll be ready in 1 hour 14mins 12 seconds. CCP go off and die. Please. -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.16 03:01:00 - [122] WoOt! Time to reactive the mining division. Now if CCP would only hurry up and release the Orca. Why not.
Xroxor Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corps Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.04.16 03:08:00 - [123] LOL.. <Xroxor points finger at CCP> A fricken shuttle is twice the price of a t1 cruiser!... I guess someone in the planing committee FUBARed this one! If this drives up the price of trit.. imanage what t1 BS's and T2 ships will cost!
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.04.16 03:09:00 - [124] So... in light of this any chance we can get the tier 3 mining barge's skill req lowered to level 4 from 5? I need to mine more veld, faster.
Yaay Game-Over Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.16 03:13:00 - [125] My god, Dianabolic is a Dev now? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 03:36:00 - [126] Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/04/2008 03:36:40 Originally by: Comrade Commizzar What's a matter? Is the itty bitty PvP monster worried he can't really make it without the Carebears?? Or is he just reminding us all that he has been SUBSIDIZED by CCP all this time?? Hm?? Or maybe the Bourgoise T2/Moon Mining Pig is afraid of what the Proletariat of Eve might do if they get their hands on enough isk?? lol. Just lol. PvP Monster. ? There's nothing wrong with trit being high by itself, the problem is one of risk vs reward, the idea behind the original mineral values was that higher risk activities give a greater reward. The problem has been through interference in the price of higher end materials via things like the drone regions, the price of those has dropped, this means that the lower end materials must come up in price due to the insurance default payout subsidising them. It also means that you make more mining in highsec than lowsec. That's just plain broken. I don't mine, I don't PvP much either, hell I don't do alot of alot of things anymore, but I have done abit of everything and I'm accutely aware of how each change affects everything else. From a market point of view, removing NPC sell order is good, it encourages trade, production, newer players can build shuttles and make good profit, because for older players, even if they sell for 200% profit, the time taken to build a shuttle is too long and valuable to tie up one of their build slots. This is all good. But the fact that it's being removed because we're hitting an artifical price cap is flawed thinking. When shuttles were originally put in, 3.6 isk/unit for trit was considered something that would never be hit, CCP had target values for minerals, and the distribution of them vs the demand ensured that while they would change, if they got too high, people would switch to mining a different ore that was more profitable, and the price would stabilise. This wouldn't be CCP keeping the prices stable, it would be a natural market phenomenom. Price caps wouldn't exist because the proportion would be relatively stable due to inbuilt supply/demand ratios. CCP have been messing with these ratios, which has been causing problems, the symptom of these problems was that refining shuttles ended up being a good way to get tritanium. The problem in reality is that there were no other good ways of getting it, but the economist has no concept of a market where you can increase the amount of oil on the planet, he simply sees a fixed world, and sees a cap that shouldn't be there (and it shouldn't). A player driven economy providing oppertunities for new players is a great thing, I just don't think the person making this particular decision made it in the right order.
Comrade Commizzar	Posted - 2008.04.16 03:56:00 - [127] Edited by: Comrade Commizzar on 16/04/2008 03:56:35 Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/04/2008 03:36:40 Originally by: Comrade Commizzar What's a matter? Is the itty bitty PvP monster worried he can't really make it without the Carebears?? Or is he just reminding us all that he has been SUBSIDIZED by CCP all this time?? Hm?? Or maybe the Bourgoise T2/Moon Mining Pig is afraid of what the Proletariat of Eve might do if they get their hands on enough isk?? lol. Just lol. PvP Monster. ? There's nothing wrong with trit being high by itself, the problem is one of risk vs reward, the idea behind the original mineral values was that higher risk activities give a greater reward. The problem has been through interference in the price of higher end materials via things like the drone regions, the price of those has dropped, this means that the lower end materials must come up in price due to the insurance default payout subsidising them. It also means that you make more mining in highsec than lowsec. That's just plain broken. I don't mine, I don't PvP much either, hell I don't do alot of alot of things anymore, but I have done abit of everything and I'm accutely aware of how each change affects everything else. From a market point of view, removing NPC sell order is good, it encourages trade, production, newer players can build shuttles and make good profit, because for older players, even if they sell for 200% profit, the time taken to build a shuttle is too long and valuable to tie up one of their build slots. This is all good. But the fact that it's being removed because we're hitting an artifical price cap is flawed thinking. When shuttles were originally put in, 3.6 isk/unit for trit was considered something that would never be hit, CCP had target values for minerals, and the distribution of them vs the demand ensured that while they would change, if they got too high, people would switch to mining a different ore that was more profitable, and the price would stabilise. This wouldn't be CCP keeping the prices stable, it would be a natural market phenomenom. Price caps wouldn't exist because the proportion would be relatively stable due to inbuilt supply/demand ratios. CCP have been messing with these ratios, which has been causing problems, the symptom of these problems was that refining shuttles ended up being a good way to get tritanium. The problem in reality is that there were no other good ways of getting it, but the economist has no concept of a market where you can increase the amount of oil on the planet, he simply sees a fixed world, and sees a cap that shouldn't be there (and it shouldn't). A player driven economy providing oppertunities for new players is a great thing, I just don't think the person making this particular decision made it in the right order. ****************** ROTFLMAO! A CAPITALIST PIG ARGUING AGAINST THE FREE MARKET! Join us now Comrade Fitz and perhaps we will not hang you with a rope you sold us!!
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.16 04:00:00 - [128] NPC's stopped selling them to remove the price cap of trit of 3.6. So we are seing a small hickup while the market regulates itself and people starts producing shuttles. Everything will be as normal in 2 weeks. Just hold on guys
Animin Mannja	Posted - 2008.04.16 04:07:00 - [129] What would be great is if we could get stats in a few days showing how people reacted. How the average price of shuttles skyrocketed, how many of those actually sold, how many BPOs were snatched up and how many tens of thousands of shuttles are being manufactured.
suzie stormbringer	Posted - 2008.04.16 04:18:00 - [130] Some people in my mains corporation like to go mining.Is it not time for the goonies to stop blowing up exhumers.
papamikeforthewin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.16 04:20:00 - [131] Originally by: Lord Fitz ? There's nothing wrong with trit being high by itself, the problem is one of risk vs reward, the idea behind the original mineral values was that higher risk activities give a greater reward. I doubt we will be seeing a flood of 0.0 miners heading for a 0.8 near you any time soon. They still make more, far more. Issues of high sec vs low sec risk are somewhat more complex than getting to scrap for those last few trit rocks.
Iracham Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.16 04:43:00 - [132] Almost every mission has piles of veld roids used as scenery, there's no shortage of rocks.
Richard Third Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.16 04:59:00 - [133] each shuttle takes roughly 1 hour to make....do you think this is why I can't find a manufacturing slot for days? -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Raymond Sterns	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:03:00 - [134] Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 16/04/2008 05:04:25 Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 16/04/2008 05:03:57 Let's use this Analogy: EvE Economy = Table Shuttle Problem = Short Leg = Creaky Table The correct approach would be to either make a new table leg (New Price) or put something under the leg (Make shuttles unrefinable) so it stops being creaky (fubar). The wrong approach is grabbing a hatchet, chopping the table leg in tiny pieces (removing seeded shuttles from stations), and expect it to grow back. The only way this gets fixed is if someone comes along and fixes it for you (People start making shuttles en-masse and post them all over) or if you fix it yourself (Put it back to the way it was + fix). Not only will this decrease PVP for non-hardcore players, it will completely kill any willingness to go outside of your home system/region to pvp (little way to get back if you lose or decide to leave a ship there). It's a fix, but it's like claiming you fixed the weed problem on your backyard by pouring lighter fluid all over it and lighting it on fire. All your pie are belong to me!
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:09:00 - [135] Edited by: Soporo on 16/04/2008 05:15:28 Best guess: What will Trit end up stabilizing at? One would assume the NEXT lowest cost/highest trit refineable npc sold market item... So nothing really changes, eh? Trit moves a few points or a couple isk is all or am I way off base?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:35:00 - [136] Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 16/04/2008 05:15:28 Best guess: What will Trit end up stabilizing at? One would assume the NEXT lowest cost/highest trit refineable npc sold market item... So nothing really changes, eh? Trit moves a few points or a couple isk is all or am I way off base? 2 things could happen: 1. Trit will sky-rocket to the next cap, which im reliably informed is 8.49(I can't deny theres a lower cap) 2. Market will be shaky the next month or two, will eventually get more stable and level off at around 4 id imagine.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:36:00 - [137] OH NO THE SKY IS FALLING! No select leave ship (get in your damn pod) and dock at a station where you have no assets. Whats this?? Limitless rookie ships and you make 1 trit out of thin air!?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:38:00 - [138] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated OH NO THE SKY IS FALLING! No select leave ship (get in your damn pod) and dock at a station where you have no assets. Whats this?? Limitless rookie ships and you make 1 trit out of thin air!? Zomg, nerf rookie-ships tbfh ()
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:44:00 - [139] im so happy im minmatar now. i get free reapers everywhere, and they have a speed bonus, too! i used to envy gallente players for their steady supply of overpowered velators, but see whos LAUGHING NOW
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:48:00 - [140] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated OH NO THE SKY IS FALLING! No select leave ship (get in your damn pod) and dock at a station where you have no assets. Whats this?? Limitless rookie ships and you make 1 trit out of thin air!? Zomg, nerf rookie-ships tbfh () ZOMG, Quick grab the nerf bat.. to the nerf mobile!
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:51:00 - [141] Originally by: P'uck im so happy im minmatar now. i get free reapers everywhere, and they have a speed bonus, too! i used to envy gallente players for their steady supply of overpowered velators, but see whos LAUGHING NOW This made my day
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:00:00 - [142] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 16/04/2008 05:15:28 Best guess: What will Trit end up stabilizing at? One would assume the NEXT lowest cost/highest trit refineable npc sold market item... So nothing really changes, eh? Trit moves a few points or a couple isk is all or am I way off base? 2 things could happen: 1. Trit will sky-rocket to the next cap, which im reliably informed is 8.49(I can't deny theres a lower cap) 2. Market will be shaky the next month or two, will eventually get more stable and level off at around 4 id imagine. Cool, both of those are agreeable to me (short term). Long term...fek if I know.
Faife Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:01:00 - [143] ITT: 10% people seeing opportunity, and 90% fail.
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:11:00 - [144] That sound? That's me, happy in the pants over this. The awesomeness of this change is indescribable.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:17:00 - [145] Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/04/2008 01:21:41 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Shuttles have apparently been removed from the NPC markets because they were acting as a price cap for Tritanium. The idiocy of it all is that this was showing that CCP was not providing enough supply for tritanium through ingame means, they talked about all sorts of serious fixes for this, but instead settled on the easiest worst possible solution which was thought of by an economist who has no concept of what makes a game different from a real world economy. The side effect will probably be, no one goes to 0.0 or lowsec at all, mining veld in 1.0 sec will be the most profitable mining around. Edit: dropping the cap probably isn't a bad idea, but the cap shouldn't be necessary, Tritanium as the most abundant mineral in eve should be cheap, it should be cheap because there is ample supply NOT because there is a cap. If they fixed the supply issue the cap wouldn't be an issue in the first place. The price of tritamium is not determined by availability but by: 1) time needed to get it (no one will mine it for a too low hourly payout); 2) ease of moving it around (no one want to move a freighter of tritanium for 10 jumps for a 1 million gain). So the price climb till is near enough to the next worthwhile activity that it feel rewarding.
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:27:00 - [146] Once again CCP prove us that they simply CANNOT fine tune their "so-called-game". Instead of going the right way around this problem, they smashed it without thinking more wider aspect. What about lowsec people moving around? What about people moving around taking ships and stuff from places? What about ... Now we see total-hell-death-what-ever-eve-meme effect on this. BEST way to deal with trit cap would have been following: * Make that NPC's sells ONE shuttle at the time, so there is infinite number of shuttles but one can be bought at the time like station containers now. * Same cost price but it will refine to 1 trit or they are unrefinable like noob ships. This way, it would not have huge effects to other parts of game but only to trits hard cap. You fail CCP, YOU FAIL!
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:29:00 - [147] Interesting that people haven't thought of the part where pirates now get more targets with indies hauling shuttles into lowsec.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:35:00 - [148] Originally by: Eternal Hatred Once again CCP prove us that they simply CANNOT fine tune their "so-called-game". Instead of going the right way around this problem, they smashed it without thinking more wider aspect. What about lowsec people moving around? What about people moving around taking ships and stuff from places? What about ... Now we see total-hell-death-what-ever-eve-meme effect on this. BEST way to deal with trit cap would have been following: * Make that NPC's sells ONE shuttle at the time, so there is infinite number of shuttles but one can be bought at the time like station containers now. * Same cost price but it will refine to 1 trit or they are unrefinable like noob ships. This way, it would not have huge effects to other parts of game but only to trits hard cap. You fail CCP, YOU FAIL! People in low sec will do like people in a area of low sec where they know the wrong T1 frigate. Use other ships or the noob frigate. Eve if the sell order is 1 item, if you put a buy order for 10.000 items of that kind at 0,01 isk more than the NPC sell price, your order get satisfied ultra fast till the price go above the buy order you have set. I have done it both with buy orders of NPC stuff and sell orders to NPC (selling 10K gallente cars in less than a second to a buy order of 100). As soon as the NPC buy/sell order is satisfied it is replaced by another in the same location and sometime with a small change in price.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:46:00 - [149] Edited by: P''uck on 16/04/2008 06:52:22 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Frug This is a good change. To whoever earlier thought rookie ships would just replace shuttles because of this change, you don't really know what you're talking about. No I think that the fast T1 frigate of each race will replace shuttles in high sec, interceptor in low sec. well the noobship wont replace the shuttle when it comes to being a supply of trit. also it cannot be put on market or contracted atm and thats why it can be a pain to get one when theres only one station / outpost around and you have ten ships there. but for me, personally, the reaper has replaced the shuttle for a long time now. iirc it has the same base agility as a stiletto. also it has a bigger cargo and is only marginally slower than a shuttle. edit; not to forget, most importantly its CHEAPER what am i missing here? because i have to admit i have no clue what Frug is on about. the more i think about it, the more i have to ask myself why minmatar folks buy shuttles AT ALL. the other noobships have bad speed, okay, but the reaper is fastish. can even fit a wedged down AB/MWD hotkey and a nano/overdrive.
Sim'a Nuk Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:51:00 - [150] shuttle - ME0, PE0 = 3375 trit. 1 minute old eng. alt = 4 manufacturing slots price of shuttle bpo 45.000,00 ISK manufacturing time = 1h 40min/shuttle Do the math, every industrial carebear noob can have 12 manufacturing slots on 1 account. He mines veld in his retriever, refines it and hauls 1.17M of trit (3GSC in Iteron 3) to every nearby station with manufacturing slot. 1.17 M of trit equals to 346 shuttles produced with a character with PE0 from bpo with ME0... in 2 days shuttles will be back very soon
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:53:00 - [151] Originally by: Sim'a Nuk shuttle - ME0, PE0 = 3375 trit. 1 minute old eng. alt = 4 manufacturing slots price of shuttle bpo 45.000,00 ISK manufacturing time = 1h 40min/shuttle Do the math, every industrial carebear noob can have 12 manufacturing slots on 1 account. He mines veld in his retriever, refines it and hauls 1.17M of trit (3GSC in Iteron 3) to every nearby station with manufacturing slot. 1.17 M of trit equals to 346 shuttles produced with a character with PE0 from bpo with ME0... in 2 days shuttles will be back very soon But nobody (well almost nobody) want to use 1 market slot for selling 100 shuttles and repeat that in all system of a region.
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:13:00 - [152] Originally by: LaVista Vista NPC's stopped selling them to remove the price cap of trit of 3.6. So we are seing a small hickup while the market regulates itself and people starts producing shuttles. Everything will be as normal in 2 weeks. Just hold on guys So your gonna seed all the stations in lowsec with shuttles? Great! _________________ It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:16:00 - [153] lol, ive got like 1000 shuttles sitting in some low sec system, awesome -----
Kakita J Placid Reborn Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:22:00 - [154] Simply changing their price to like 30-50k would have done the same job better, although then a price cap would _theoretically_ be still in place. But a price cap is de facto in place as long as NPCs sell refinable stuff of any kind. While I can see Trit climb to 5 or 6 over such a hype, expecting it to sustainedly rise above 10 is not really reasonable. At this point, all of the game balance with regards to insurance and/or risk vs. reward would be long gone anyway. -------------------------------------- "They better fix the bleep bleep bleep jump bleep gates before I bleepbleepbleep and then some."
Mystic5hadow Knights of the Black Abyss	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:22:00 - [155] Good think I've amassed enough to supply a small army
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:23:00 - [156] Well according to eve-market site: LINK Shuttles are getting more expensive. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:23:00 - [157] I would like to concur with the opinion that this is a bad idea. I can understand (although not necessarily agree with) the need to deal with them as a price cap for Trit, but shuttles were damn handy. Pods and rookie ships are poor choices for shuttling yourself around, both have a gimped 3au/sec warp speed and a similarly slow sublight speed. NPC sold shuttles need to stay. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:39:00 - [158] hmm interesting change I like lucky I still have those throw away shuttles lying all over empire.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:15:00 - [159] Originally by: LaVista Vista NPC's stopped selling them to remove the price cap of trit of 3.6. So we are seing a small hickup while the market regulates itself and people starts producing shuttles. Everything will be as normal in 2 weeks. Just hold on guys Not it won't, people will not be able or willing to supply every station out there with a supply at reasonable prices if at all. I find your lack of vision disturbing. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Seetesh Caldari Pixels Docks	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:17:00 - [160] Oh god im glad i brought 800 for flying around in then just last month hahah.
Space Explorer Minmatar Evil Fluffy Bunnies	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:28:00 - [161] Besides the recycling effect, this in itself will increase the veld price because tons and tons of shuttles have to be build now to seed the markets. Shuttles are still the most used ship in game. o/
Neodome	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:30:00 - [162] I think its necessary to point out that with this change the market will more reflect the IRL market as it will be fueled by demand/supply, it will allso help the manufacturers to really get into manufacturing stuff more. As the supply rises the price will go down eventually. I personally see this as a great thing.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:36:00 - [163] Originally by: Neodome I personally see this as a great thing. From a purely marktet point of view, I agree. But what worries me, and apparently others, is that shuttles are the most efficient method to travel long distances without much hassle. No NPC shuttles also means that shuttles are only sold where much traffic is. So you're left without a shuttle if you're in no-mans land. Which, btw, probably will only cause people to crowd even further. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:37:00 - [164] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/04/2008 08:37:08 Originally by: Neodome I think its necessary to point out that with this change the market will more reflect the IRL market as it will be fueled by demand/supply, it will allso help the manufacturers to really get into manufacturing stuff more. As the supply rises the price will go down eventually. I personally see this as a great thing. Only being able to buy shuttles at reasonably busy systems is indeed going to be awesome, yay for a richer gaming experience... -----
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Soul of Fountain	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:37:00 - [165] Awesome! Thanks for making buying ships a pain in the ass now CCP. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Neodome	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:44:00 - [166] Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind From a purely marktet point of view, I agree. But what worries me, and apparently others, is that shuttles are the most efficient method to travel long distances without much hassle. No NPC shuttles also means that shuttles are only sold where much traffic is. So you're left without a shuttle if you're in no-mans land. Which, btw, probably will only cause people to crowd even further. I see your point however if you want to get shuttles sold more widespread as a trader, I think it will allso spread to the less traffic areas for smaler traders. And people running traderoutes can just buy an extra batch of shuttles and drop off at a destination to futher increase their profit. And as we are so many players propability is that someone will put shuttles in even a remote location. The crowding and I assume your allso thinking about increased lag will have to be an issue that CCP probably will find a solution for.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:49:00 - [167] Originally by: Neodome The crowding and I assume your allso thinking about increased lag will have to be an issue that CCP probably will find a solution for. -----
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Soul of Fountain	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:50:00 - [168] Originally by: Neodome Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind From a purely marktet point of view, I agree. But what worries me, and apparently others, is that shuttles are the most efficient method to travel long distances without much hassle. No NPC shuttles also means that shuttles are only sold where much traffic is. So you're left without a shuttle if you're in no-mans land. Which, btw, probably will only cause people to crowd even further. I see your point however if you want to get shuttles sold more widespread as a trader, I think it will allso spread to the less traffic areas for smaler traders. And people running traderoutes can just buy an extra batch of shuttles and drop off at a destination to futher increase their profit. And as we are so many players propability is that someone will put shuttles in even a remote location. The crowding and I assume your allso thinking about increased lag will have to be an issue that CCP probably will find a solution for. Why did they have to nuke the shuttle sell mechanism? The refining issue I can understand. But why not make shuttles unrefinable? --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:10:00 - [169] I, Johnny Wishbone, famous claivoyant, predict a Need For Speed "initiative" where shuttles no long show up on your assets register. In about two years time. --- Boring & Banal. Just how CCP like it.
Ordon Gundar	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:17:00 - [170] Just another temporary boom that will end in a major bust. Give it a month, when the market is heaving with Veldspar, and watch the prices plummet!!
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:31:00 - [171] Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: DroneBay Diva Stealth Chribba boost detected. Nerf Veldspar, its overpowered! Yeah that's what will probably happen next... A veldspar nerf. So the timeline of events: 1. Stop shuttles being produced by NPC's 2. Watch trit prices skyrocket 3. Panic as the economy goes wonkey and the users revolt on the forums 4. Do the stupid and wrong thing and nerf veldspar and other mins The sensible thing to do, would be have shuttles that are still produced by NPC's but either cannot be refined, or refine into much fewer minerals! If this does become a problem PLEASE CONSIDER THE SENSIBLE OPTION rather than compounding the problem and nerfing stuff. Sensible option = Make shuttles non refinable, or refine into fewer miners BUT still built by NPC's. I have a feeling this was a very poorly considered move!
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:37:00 - [172] If you think shuttles will become readily avaiable from players, they will not. Look if common ammo and drones are readily avaiable to missioners. There are shortages in Dodi for speaking out loud (check Phased Plasma in Serpentis region!); while I can travel 3 jumps to buy overpriced drones in higsec you will be hardly willing to do that for shuttle in lowsec. (Yes I carry BPCs now, all the traders are good for fuelling shuttle speculations on forums while the fad lasts but will never bother to sell low isk goods anywhere.) As far as trit prices go, shuttles were never big source of it and there is still insurance. It is all traders praying on traders while the fad lasts. Shuttles are dead. More time spent looking at warp screen and babysitting jumpage and freezing market UI. Fun is for Wow kids we have Eve and razors and a one man economist army.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:39:00 - [173] Originally by: Ashlee Darksky Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: DroneBay Diva Stealth Chribba boost detected. Nerf Veldspar, its overpowered! Yeah that's what will probably happen next... A veldspar nerf. So the timeline of events: 1. Stop shuttles being produced by NPC's 2. Watch trit prices skyrocket 3. Panic as the economy goes wonkey and the users revolt on the forums 4. Do the stupid and wrong thing and nerf veldspar and other mins The sensible thing to do, would be have shuttles that are still produced by NPC's but either cannot be refined, or refine into much fewer minerals! If this does become a problem PLEASE CONSIDER THE SENSIBLE OPTION rather than compounding the problem and nerfing stuff. Sensible option = Make shuttles non refinable, or refine into fewer miners BUT still built by NPC's. I have a feeling this was a very poorly considered move! What you are saying is that you are against everything being built by players? In that case, i dont agree with you. Im all for EVERYTHING being built by players. Shuttle's should be no different.
Galleintak Gallente Omni Corp Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:53:00 - [174] Edited by: Galleintak on 16/04/2008 09:54:20 Originally by: LaVista Vista What you are saying is that you are against everything being built by players? In that case, i dont agree with you. Im all for EVERYTHING being built by players. Shuttle's should be no different. Remove all items from LP stores and all kinds of item-loot then, shuttles is so small part of all this large non-player economy in EVE.... Only BPC and manufacturing resources must be looted, then EVE would be sandbox as CCP falsly state...
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:57:00 - [175] Edited by: Quelque Chose on 16/04/2008 09:59:25 Edited by: Quelque Chose on 16/04/2008 09:58:13 Originally by: LaVista Vista What you are saying is that you are against everything being built by players? In that case, i dont agree with you. Im all for EVERYTHING being built by players. Shuttle's should be no different. What about general freight containers? You want some poor schlep to build those and lug them around? Or maybe if I want one I have to train up to freighters, splash out a bil and spend all day dragging ass to Jita? No thanks. "Everything Built By Players!" makes a great slogan but it doesn't always make for good gameplay. Besides, I pay taxes to these NPC bloodsuckers and I figure I might as well get some services for that.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:02:00 - [176] Originally by: Quelque Chose Edited by: Quelque Chose on 16/04/2008 09:59:25 Edited by: Quelque Chose on 16/04/2008 09:58:13 Originally by: LaVista Vista What you are saying is that you are against everything being built by players? In that case, i dont agree with you. Im all for EVERYTHING being built by players. Shuttle's should be no different. What about general freight containers? You want some poor schlep to build those and lug them around? Or maybe if I want one I have to train up to freighters, splash out a bil and spend all day dragging ass to Jita? No thanks. "Everything Built By Players!" makes a great slogan but it doesn't always make for good gameplay. Besides, I pay taxes to these NPC bloodsuckers and I figure I might as well get some services for that. Well you know the containers coiuld just be sold where they are built..you dont have to go all the way to a trade hub you know? Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Cygore Amarr The Drekla Consortium VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:12:00 - [177] I see this as an opportunity. Thanks CCP.
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:14:00 - [178] My shuttle business just got an awesome boost
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:16:00 - [179] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ashlee Darksky Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: DroneBay Diva Stealth Chribba boost detected. Nerf Veldspar, its overpowered! Yeah that's what will probably happen next... A veldspar nerf. So the timeline of events: 1. Stop shuttles being produced by NPC's 2. Watch trit prices skyrocket 3. Panic as the economy goes wonkey and the users revolt on the forums 4. Do the stupid and wrong thing and nerf veldspar and other mins The sensible thing to do, would be have shuttles that are still produced by NPC's but either cannot be refined, or refine into much fewer minerals! If this does become a problem PLEASE CONSIDER THE SENSIBLE OPTION rather than compounding the problem and nerfing stuff. Sensible option = Make shuttles non refinable, or refine into fewer miners BUT still built by NPC's. I have a feeling this was a very poorly considered move! What you are saying is that you are against everything being built by players? In that case, i dont agree with you. Im all for EVERYTHING being built by players. Shuttle's should be no different. I'm not saying that at all so don't put words in my mouth! I also support player building and production but this will have a massive knock-on effect throughout EVE. Trit is like the oil of EVE. If prices of trit rise, everything rises. I don't think EVERYTHING should be produced by players because there would be a massive shortage. There is simply not enough production to meet demand (yet!). Before I get flamed for that - do the research! What I am saying, is that IF this backfires then CCP need to consider their options carefully before going with a knee-jerk over-reaction uber nerf!
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:18:00 - [180] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Celeste Coeval Well you know the containers coiuld just be sold where they are built..you dont have to go all the way to a trade hub you know? Oh OK... some guy is going to travel around building GFCs in every station in the region. We'll call him "the GFC fairy." While we're at it why don't we just make the faction police player- operated to? We'll all take 8 hour shifts. Can I get one of those Concord Battleships? Superb for OMGWTFBBQPWNAGE in 2 shots
Cpt Hound Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:27:00 - [181] Some of you have just no clue. The price of the shuttles skyrocketed simply because few people were actually producing them. They saw this opertunity to increase the price to millions. When new manufactures come in the price of the shuttles will lower to a sane prices, they will probably level out at 15000 - 20000 isk. Same thing will happen to the tritanium price, people will flock in and mine tritanium causing fluctuation on the market and then level out at a normal price after a while.
Ordon Gundar	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:30:00 - [182] Originally by: Cpt Hound Some of you have just no clue. The price of the shuttles skyrocketed simply because few people were actually producing them. They saw this opertunity to increase the price to millions. When new manufactures come in the price of the shuttles will lower to a sane prices, they will probably level out at 15000 - 20000 isk. Same thing will happen to the tritanium price, people will flock in and mine tritanium causing fluctuation on the market and then level out at a normal price after a while. Correct...like I said before, short-term boom followed by bust and settling of the market. For all those calling for Trit nerfs, well, all that would do is put the market in a constant left-right march from panic to panic and end stability. Make money from shuttles while you can, make hay while the sun shines people!
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:47:00 - [183] I'm simply saying things will be more expensive because trit prices will go up because there is no artificial cap provided by shuttles any more. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, in fact it's good for me because my goods will sell for more. What I am saying is this; If this causes instability in the market then CCP shouldn't take a knee-jerk reaction and start nerfing things because of people whining on the forums. Repeat the mantra "No nerfs, nerfs are bad"
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:49:00 - [184] Originally by: Ordon Gundar Correct...like I said before, short-term boom followed by bust and settling of the market. For all those calling for Trit nerfs, well, all that would do is put the market in a constant left-right march from panic to panic and end stability. I was under the impression that the only shuttles on market were those put up by people hoping someone would buy an overpriced shuttle by accident. --- Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice.
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs Hephaestus Rising	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:52:00 - [185] ohh great...insane ship prices here we come... :( -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Fulbert Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:55:00 - [186] At last, i'm gonna making more than 10 millions per hour with my Hulk Time to buy some Veldspar crystals :D ____________________________________ Fulbert Peon
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.16 11:16:00 - [187] I love this change. Daring and a dash of the old CCP in the workings. Awesome CCP! Black Hand.
Phoenix Torp Caldari Kingmakers	Posted - 2008.04.16 11:16:00 - [188] Finally i won't see evermore that ****ty and ugly ships... ------ Skills
SiJira	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:40:00 - [189] insurance? Trashed sig, Shark was here
Hemroid	Posted - 2008.04.16 13:15:00 - [190] This is indeed an outrage, but in all respect and in all fairness it is due. I wouldn't say that because of the price cap on trit, but just the fact that shuttles were widely available and now they are not going to be. May we live in interesting times? Remember EVE is suppose to be a cold dark place.
Allaria Kriss Minmatar Elipse Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.16 13:34:00 - [191] Edited by: Allaria Kriss on 16/04/2008 13:35:55 I see this change in three ways: Good, bad, and ugly. GOOD: 1) It gives new players something worth manufacturing. 2) It opens up a new market. 3) It uncaps the price of tritanium. BAD: 1) Shuttles take too long to build. 2) Shuttles aren't profitable enough to spend time building except for the very, very new. 3) Shuttles are tough to move around en masse because they take up a lot of cargo space. UGLY: 1) Shuttles will no longer be available in remote systems, which was their primary asset. 2) There were many, many better ways to execute this change. 3) The only people who will be interested in BUILDING shuttles will not have the skills to SELL a lot of them due to sell order limits. All in all, I'm not against the adjustment of the tritanium price cap, but I'm against the way this change was done. They need to devise a new method of keeping cheap, reliable transportation available without having to rely on rookie ships or pods.
Vixisti Hammer 0f Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.16 13:46:00 - [192] Edited by: Vixisti on 16/04/2008 13:46:11 Pods all over the place after DT, well this takes away the buffer from losing your clone when travelling that was there before, so expect to see lots of smartbombing bs's in low sec from now on, griefing. Bad way to raise the trit cap IMO. They should have simply made shuttles unrefinable. They should be a means of transport not an economic tool.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:03:00 - [193] Could have just doubled the NPC price of shuttles. --- Boring & Banal. Just how CCP like it.
Kirana Si Idle Miners	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:08:00 - [194] /me undocks in pod and starts scanning out abadoned shuttles
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:40:00 - [195] Bad + lazy fix! They should have rather made shuttels not worth refining. Would have been much better. Now you have another useless ship _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:54:00 - [196] Edited by: umop 3pisdn on 16/04/2008 14:54:33 Originally by: Vixisti Edited by: Vixisti on 16/04/2008 13:46:11 Pods all over the place after DT, well this takes away the buffer from losing your clone when travelling that was there before, so expect to see lots of smartbombing bs's in low sec from now on, griefing. How stupid are some people. You do not even deserve your velator OR the gratifying gift of tritanium.
Vixisti Hammer 0f Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:56:00 - [197] And this add something to the topic?
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:58:00 - [198] Originally by: Vixisti And this add something to the topic? Yes, I was reminding you that you get a free noob ship whenever you dock in a pod or get podded to a station where you have no ships, this changes nothing except how long it will take people to afk around high sec.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:10:00 - [199] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 16/04/2008 15:11:53 Excellent move CCP! Removing price caps allows the player base to price at what they are capable of creating in supply chains, rather than the ultra-rich simply refining loads of equipment at capped prices. Here's to the removal of ALL NPC sold items! When can we start producing trade goods? POS supplies??? POS supplies would be the ULTIMATE market to get into, it's an item that is ALWAYS consumed, a never ending demand!
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:20:00 - [200] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 16/04/2008 15:11:53 Excellent move CCP! Removing price caps allows the player base to price at what they are capable of creating in supply chains, rather than the ultra-rich simply refining loads of equipment at capped prices. Here's to the removal of ALL NPC sold items! When can we start producing trade goods? POS supplies??? POS supplies would be the ULTIMATE market to get into, it's an item that is ALWAYS consumed, a never ending demand! You're saying this while making a bid on some drone region property? These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:27:00 - [201] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 16/04/2008 15:11:53 Excellent move CCP! Removing price caps allows the player base to price at what they are capable of creating in supply chains, rather than the ultra-rich simply refining loads of equipment at capped prices. Here's to the removal of ALL NPC sold items! When can we start producing trade goods? POS supplies??? POS supplies would be the ULTIMATE market to get into, it's an item that is ALWAYS consumed, a never ending demand! You're saying this while making a bid on some drone region property? Eh? I've no knowledge of that... You thinking of SmashKill? But if my corp were to move to drone regions, I still don't see how that response relates to my post? Unless you're saying that somehow I'd be interested in refining drone loot... If that's where you're getting at, pft... I'd rather do more cognitive industrial activities, such as moon mining, or complex reactions, AND TRADE GOODS! YES TRADE GOODS!
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:28:00 - [202] Originally by: umop 3pisdn this changes nothing except how long it will take people to afk around high sec. And whether you can escape a dock camp at an unfamiliar station. --- Boring & Banal. Just how CCP like it.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:31:00 - [203] Originally by: Patch86 The shuttle (a not particularly fast, badly armoured ship with no slots and no redeeming features other than price and availability) is a dead donkey. Your empire war experience is lacking I guess. Shuttle is still the fastest aligning ship, escaping all non bubble camps save very bad lag. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:44:00 - [204] /me shakes his head in wonder (to all the PvP who actually don't mind the shuttle/trit boost we're getting: ignore this, it's not directed at you) To all the PvP "whine whine no shuttles whine whine": Grow some balls would you? you have ZERO understanding of the eve market evidently. If you've ever bothered to look at the distribution of noob frigates (Slasher, Atron, Condor and Executioner in case you've forgotten). You'd know that this won't be a problem beyond the next week or two. Most places you'd want to buy a shuttle will have some in stock within a day or two, your corp (cuz unless you're in a one man corp it'll have someone with a modicum of common sense in it) will lay in a supply of shuttles in the offices. This knee-jerk reaction you seem to be having could best be described by removing the word "knee". As for the low sec pirates *****ing about lack of shuttles?: ROFLMAO man this change is just chuck full of WIN.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:00:00 - [205] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Patch86 The shuttle (a not particularly fast, badly armoured ship with no slots and no redeeming features other than price and availability) is a dead donkey. Your empire war experience is lacking I guess. Shuttle is still the fastest aligning ship, escaping all non bubble camps save very bad lag. Shuttles align faster than pods? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:08:00 - [206] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Patch86 The shuttle (a not particularly fast, badly armoured ship with no slots and no redeeming features other than price and availability) is a dead donkey. Your empire war experience is lacking I guess. Shuttle is still the fastest aligning ship, escaping all non bubble camps save very bad lag. Shuttles align faster than pods? A pod is a ship? Black Hand.
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:28:00 - [207] Edited by: Chomin H''ak on 16/04/2008 16:32:17 I crapped my pants when I logged on after being horribly sick for a week and a half. I had been hoarding and buying low end minerals from my mates to build BS's to make some moneys.... Oh yeah, and I thought I'd try out some buy orders (as a goof) and put in for Min and Amarr shuttles. I love you CCP. Our corp will be handing out gold-plated soup spoons and fruit baskets to the next 30 applicants ^^ To everyone else who isn't looking at the glass as half full? Edit: Shuttles are one of the fastest aligning, most agile ships (for under a hefty sum... oops) and the 10m3 cargo will carry 1000 items weighing 0.01m3. Want one? I'm selling... *** Looking for a corporation to learn about all the different aspects of New Eden? The Trivenerate is hirin
Fulbert Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:29:00 - [208] If you are locked when you're in a shuttle, you lose the shuttle and you should be able to escape (in pod) If you are locked when you're a pod, then you die. And shuttles have a 5 m3 cargohold : useful for the lowsec courrier missions... ____________________________________ Fulbert Peon
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:34:00 - [209] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin A pod is a ship? When it comes to gate camps, I don't think there's much of a difference honestly. If you can't warp before you're locked in a pod, you won't be able to in a shuttle either. Of course, with a shuttle there's a small chance lag will help you out if you mash the warp button as you go down. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Crawler Gallente Solar Wind	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:43:00 - [210] man this really suck well who the hell will even buy a shuttle now. might as well ge a small frigate its cheaper and they are selling at more stations
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:55:00 - [211] Originally by: Chribba I've put a blockade on selling minerals to NPC corps. My apologies. I might rethink supplying them again if they get me those Capital Mining Lasers. I KNEW IT! Damn Market Pirates!
Tryptic Photon Gallente Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:22:00 - [212] Originally by: Fulbert And shuttles have a 5 m3 cargohold : useful for the lowsec courrier missions... I'll see your 5 and raise you.
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:27:00 - [213] The solution to this, avoiding the scenario where getting a travel ship at any station is hard, while removing trit price cap, is to let NPCs seed shuttles but at a price of 50k or so, removing price cap, making it worthwhile for players to produce (cheaper shuttle = you buy that) and making everyone happy.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:42:00 - [214] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 16/04/2008 17:43:18 Originally by: Euriti The solution to this, avoiding the scenario where getting a travel ship at any station is hard, while removing trit price cap, is to let NPCs seed shuttles but at a price of 50k or so, removing price cap, making it worthwhile for players to produce (cheaper shuttle = you buy that) and making everyone happy. unnecessary - everyone is happy right now. Nothing should be supplied via NPC in unlimited quantities. All should be player made, including implants, POS supplies, and TRADE GOODS! YEAH YEAH YEAH, TRADE GOODS! Agent's shouldn't purchase trade goods in unlimited quantity either, planets should have their own micro economy based on supplies offered.
wamingo Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:56:00 - [215] The solution is much more simple... Just make shuttles un-reprocessable. No shuttle trit, no trit cap. Lots of items can't be reprocessed so this ought to be a trivial change. Unfortunately the real reason for removing shuttles is probably not to remove price cap, but to make travel in through hostile alliance 0.0 space even more cumbersome to make quiet invasion harder... in favour of bob and such, of course. -- I won't not promise to avoid refraining from harming you! .... What?
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:57:00 - [216] Originally by: wamingo Unfortunately the real reason for removing shuttles is probably not to remove price cap, but to make travel in through hostile alliance 0.0 space even more cumbersome to make quiet invasion harder... in favour of bob and such, of course. Best tinfoil hat response in this thread. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:02:00 - [217] Say, now that shuttles actually have a value, why not give them a 1/1/1 slot layout, maybe even a turret, and restrict modules to the civilian ones? -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
Skjorta	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:03:00 - [218] Even if they are 10k again, the good thing about shuttles was that they were available at every npc station... Really ***** dumb fix to the problem of trit pricing. Just make them unable to be reprocessed. Tada! No ***** hassle, and problem fixed. Seriously who do they hire to come up with these "fixes".
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:08:00 - [219] Originally by: Skjorta Even if they are 10k again, the good thing about shuttles was that they were available at every npc station... Really ***** dumb fix to the problem of trit pricing. Just make them unable to be reprocessed. Tada! No ***** hassle, and problem fixed. Seriously who do they hire to come up with these "fixes". /this _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:08:00 - [220] I think this is a silly change personally. I would have simply made shuttles reprocess into construction blocks or something. You cannot seriously expect that players are going to supply every backwater station in every backwater system with shuttles...
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:15:00 - [221] Yes the primary task of shuttels is gone. to get an cheap quick ship available at most places to make long travel a less PITA. I agree with the idea behind the change. But the execution is lame, lame, lame period. just my humble opinion ^^ _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
William Alex Viscosity	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:24:00 - [222] Edited by: William Alex on 16/04/2008 18:24:55 This is a horrible solution. It's like saying how are we going to stop people from driving too fast? "Take their steering wheels" The main reason to fly shuttles was that they were in every station you went to. Now we have to travel who knows how far to find a frigate, to travel in? Weak! EDIT: How many fixes do we have to endure that are worse than the problem?
wamingo Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:26:00 - [223] Originally by: Tarminic Best tinfoil hat response in this thread. I thought it was funny :(
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:33:00 - [224] also with this change 1 less isk sink, and we need those. I bet a great chunk of isk was took from the game by shuttles.
Henry Fredyericus Gallente H.F. Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:38:00 - [225] ...so it was the Shuttles what CCP were talking about at the patch exploit fix section..ey
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:39:00 - [226] I bet without a abundance of shuttles EvE feels a bit larger again....
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:46:00 - [227] The real nerf from this is alliance capital ship programs lose their endless trit supply close to their 0.0<->empire border. Building dreads, in the numbers needed to fight a war, requires massive ammounts if trit.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:47:00 - [228] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan The real nerf from this is alliance capital ship programs lose their endless trit supply close to their 0.0<->empire border. Building dreads, in the numbers needed to fight a war, requires massive ammounts if trit. Now the change makes sense. CCP nerfed 'Capships Online'. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:54:00 - [229] I do not supprot maeking shutles player only. It is very hard to found shutles in game. Not all stasions have them and very probalmatic expesially in low secs. High secs aslo probalmatic when in empire wars. Why does this to we? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Kyra Felann Gallente Noir. Tread Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:02:00 - [230] I don't necessarily mind NPCs making and selling stuff, but they should do so according to the economy instead of just offering things for a fixed price. If shuttle prices, for instance, were based on the price of the tritanium to make them plus a small, randomized profit percentage, they'd still be available, but wouldn't be a price cap on tritanium, since their prices would rise and fall with the tritanium prices. I also think that NPC-sold items shouldn't be super-cheap, so that a shrewd industrialist with good skills could make things for cheaper and undercut them to make a profit. My point is, if NPCs can make and sell stuff and be basically indistinguishable (to the player browsing the market) from players selling the same thing, that would be fine, IMO. Seeing shuttles for sale for exactly 9,000 ISK made it obvious that NPCs were selling them and also put a hard cap on tritanium in place.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:09:00 - [231] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Patch86 The shuttle (a not particularly fast, badly armoured ship with no slots and no redeeming features other than price and availability) is a dead donkey. Your empire war experience is lacking I guess. Shuttle is still the fastest aligning ship, escaping all non bubble camps save very bad lag. Shuttles align faster than pods? Nope but they have better cargo. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:13:00 - [232] the main point for me is, that a great part of convinience went out of the window with that. Xtra time and extra isk spend now to get somewhere to pick up a ship or to fly over to ya corpmates etc. Not such a bigi but instead make it just not reprocessable would have been a better fix in my eyes. Maybe to much work?? _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
tchamp2 Caldari Veni Vidi Vici. XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:25:00 - [233] Originally by: Casino Alkasar the main point for me is, that a great part of convinience went out of the window with that. Xtra time and extra isk spend now to get somewhere to pick up a ship or to fly over to ya corpmates etc. Not such a bigi but instead make it just not reprocessable would have been a better fix in my eyes. Maybe to much work?? I'm glad they killed the shuttle. A ship that pretty much can't be stopped at a gate camp BUT can take some cargo is a bad thing. Flying through space should be riskier. Also, the comment about making "capships online" harder to do was right too. Glad they did that. EVE - just like the first woman - too addictive to deny.
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:30:00 - [234] gate camp online much? _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:32:00 - [235] I cannot even express how awesome this change is. It allows the players to create another item, and price it accordingly with market competition. Those that say they wish NPC to continue these services, have opinions that are bad for the game. This step brings this game closer to a virtual universe sandbox game. You cannot freely do "All Things" in a sandbox, unless "All Things" are player controlled. I would say this is one of the BEST changes in two years- A very small change, but a huge example of how much further we can go in this game as a virtual universe, with a virtual market that has no comparison!
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:39:00 - [236] Edited by: Casino Alkasar on 16/04/2008 19:42:39 Great change?? People will just spawn newby ship to travel, or go by pod so not much isk for the shuttle producer in the long run i guess.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:41:00 - [237] Originally by: tchamp2 Originally by: Casino Alkasar the main point for me is, that a great part of convinience went out of the window with that. Xtra time and extra isk spend now to get somewhere to pick up a ship or to fly over to ya corpmates etc. Not such a bigi but instead make it just not reprocessable would have been a better fix in my eyes. Maybe to much work?? I'm glad they killed the shuttle. A ship that pretty much can't be stopped at a gate camp BUT can take some cargo is a bad thing. Flying through space should be riskier. Also, the comment about making "capships online" harder to do was right too. Glad they did that. They haven't "killed" the shuttle.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:47:00 - [238] Slasher manufactorers should get a boost from this. Its always been my shuttle of choice. Its about the same cost to make and is infinitely better than a shuttle with near identical velocity and alignment speed. And thats before you put a bog standard t1 i-stab and mwd on it. Glad I have a nice decently researched bpo on that one tbh. In the end it will be players training up all races frig to level 1 or 2 and just picking up the cheapest one in whatever station they are in if they need a fast mover to get somehwere and no shuttles are available. The market will adapt.
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:57:00 - [239] Originally by: Zeba Slasher manufactorers should get a boost from this. Its always been my shuttle of choice. Its about the same cost to make and is infinitely better than a shuttle with near identical velocity and alignment speed. And thats before you put a bog standard t1 i-stab and mwd on it. Glad I have a nice decently researched bpo on that one tbh. In the end it will be players training up all races frig to level 1 or 2 and just picking up the cheapest one in whatever station they are in if they need a fast mover to get somehwere and no shuttles are available. The market will adapt. Sure, youre right. All will work out. But was that realy the goal of the change by the devs? Why did they just take the shuttles off the npc market? Yes cause its the easist way to stop trit producing out off thin air.. god forbid they would have to code a bit to make it not reprocessable
jna Caldari Black Ash Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:01:00 - [240] I love this change. Only a few more artificial caps on trit to go, and it's free! Free as a bird! \o/ ------------------------------------------------- When Carebears Attack! <-- Hulk PvP video
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:04:00 - [241] Originally by: Casino Alkasar Sure, youre right. All will work out. But was that realy the goal of the change by the devs? Why did they just take the shuttles off the npc market? Yes cause its the easist way to stop trit producing out off thin air.. god forbid they would have to code a bit to make it not reprocessable Stealth boost to ship makers maybe? God knows they whine enough about not making a profit off of t1 frigs or shuttles. With a real demand to supply maybe now they won't have as much to ***** about but I'm sure the people who will have to suffer the coming price wars until enough manyfactorers dust off the unused bpo's will surely step up and whine. Oh wait thats already ITT. Why not.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:05:00 - [242] Originally by: Casino Alkasar Originally by: Zeba Slasher manufactorers should get a boost from this. Its always been my shuttle of choice. Its about the same cost to make and is infinitely better than a shuttle with near identical velocity and alignment speed. And thats before you put a bog standard t1 i-stab and mwd on it. Glad I have a nice decently researched bpo on that one tbh. In the end it will be players training up all races frig to level 1 or 2 and just picking up the cheapest one in whatever station they are in if they need a fast mover to get somehwere and no shuttles are available. The market will adapt. Sure, youre right. All will work out. But was that realy the goal of the change by the devs? Why did they just take the shuttles off the npc market? Yes cause its the easist way to stop trit producing out off thin air.. god forbid they would have to code a bit to make it not reprocessable Completely wrong, and full of assumption. The reason for the change was to remove NPC sales of shuttles. If you have proof otherwise, show me.
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:10:00 - [243] Edited by: Casino Alkasar on 16/04/2008 20:10:48 shows proof maan! i c they just wanted to make travel more boring
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:11:00 - [244] Shuttles are nice for high sec, but the Ibis is still my no sec bird of choice. Slower, yes, but a helluva lot less agita when moving around with a WCS in the low.
motomysz DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:16:00 - [245] We should just make it so that when you get into a ship it binds to you, and can't be reprocessed.
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:37:00 - [246] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I do not supprot maeking shutles player only. It is very hard to found shutles in game. Not all stasions have them and very probalmatic expesially in low secs. High secs aslo probalmatic when in empire wars. Why does this to we? High secs is the best. Seriously does Jenny take prozac or something? One minute she's blurting out pearls in perfect grammar and the next.... lhasdjkghs;djgkh ...in the same day! This is really a whine tread like no other. The shuttles are gone, build, buy but adapt or die, folks. The prices of minerals/mods/ships will fluctuate dramatically every patch that things are changed, but they always level off at some point. Once that equilibrium has been reached, then CCP can unstuck it if it's stuck. Be patient ffs. *** Looking for a corporation to learn about all the different aspects of New Eden? The Trivenerate is hirin
Terribad	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:39:00 - [247] Originally by: motomysz We should just make it so that when you get into a ship it binds to you, and can't be reprocessed. good troll or best troll?
VInanath Diesel Caldari Irken Research Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.16 21:27:00 - [248] Edited by: VInanath Diesel on 16/04/2008 21:27:25 Originally by: Zeba Slasher manufactorers should get a boost from this. Its always been my shuttle of choice. Its about the same cost to make and is infinitely better than a shuttle with near identical velocity and alignment speed. And thats before you put a bog standard t1 i-stab and mwd on it. Glad I have a nice decently researched bpo on that one tbh. In the end it will be players training up all races frig to level 1 or 2 and just picking up the cheapest one in whatever station they are in if they need a fast mover to get somehwere and no shuttles are available. The market will adapt. Slasher manufacturer here... Me and my alt army are currently preparing to supply the Forge region your new and improved, eve's shuttle of choice, the Slasher!
ElCholo Minmatar The SMITE Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.04.16 21:50:00 - [249] Originally by: suzie stormbringer Some people in my mains corporation like to go mining.Is it not time for the goonies to stop blowing up exhumers. No, this will just give them more incentive to kill em.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.16 21:55:00 - [250] Originally by: Terribad Originally by: motomysz We should just make it so that when you get into a ship it binds to you, and can't be reprocessed. good troll or best troll? ... I sense a WoW term in there.
4 Hire	Posted - 2008.04.16 22:26:00 - [251] Why not just raise shuttle prices to like 20k
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.16 22:43:00 - [252] What concerns me si that by removign NPC shuttles CCP removed the LARGEST isk sink in game
dosperado Denial of Service Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.17 07:12:00 - [253] Just make shuttles unrefineable like rookie ships and put them back on market. A far better solution as the current one!
Jaehaerys	Posted - 2008.04.17 07:27:00 - [254] finally, the shuttle-heavy investment portfolio pays off!
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Soul of Fountain	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:01:00 - [255] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 16/04/2008 17:43:18 Originally by: Euriti The solution to this, avoiding the scenario where getting a travel ship at any station is hard, while removing trit price cap, is to let NPCs seed shuttles but at a price of 50k or so, removing price cap, making it worthwhile for players to produce (cheaper shuttle = you buy that) and making everyone happy. unnecessary - everyone is happy right now. Nothing should be supplied via NPC in unlimited quantities. All should be player made, including implants, POS supplies, and TRADE GOODS! YEAH YEAH YEAH, TRADE GOODS! Agent's shouldn't purchase trade goods in unlimited quantity either, planets should have their own micro economy based on supplies offered. Tell me how exactly are people happy that have their main base in a somewhat deserted station (possibly without a production line even)? If they want to buy a ship they are then basicly not able of buying a shuttle and going to a station in that to buy it. It's just stupid. Appearantly CCP wants players to congregate only in busy systems, making those systems only more busy. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
AngeFredinauQwertia	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:24:00 - [256] After this change, the price of trit will rise until next price gap, or to that point when mining a veldspar will be aprox a twice more profitable than L4 missions (because most of players simply don't like mining and prefer missions and ratting). This will result isk inflation and ships priceup wich will hurt the most: 1. traders (more slow economy) 2. newbies (if they dont want to mine asteroids) 3. PvPers (because of ships price, ensurance will not cover the loss) 4. agentrunners\hunters (they play time will cost less effective wealth) In general: more mining, less shooting
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:27:00 - [257] Edited by: Andrue on 17/04/2008 11:27:34 Originally by: Shevar It's just stupid. Appearantly CCP wants players to congregate only in busy systems, making those systems only more busy. Leave current ship, undock in pod. Either redock to get a noob ship or just fly in your pod. Not as fast as using a shuttle but not hugely different for the noob ship. Probably a good chance that either can be used to get to a station with genuine shuttles on sale. It's not like the lack of Shuttles is stopping anyone moving around - that's why I don't understand the sudden price rise. What kind of idiot is paying 10mil for a shuttle?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:36:00 - [258] Originally by: Andrue What kind of idiot is paying 10mil for a shuttle? Those were already seeded for the odd chance someone would blindly buy it. As they were the only shuttles that players had seeded thats why they are there now.
small chimp	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:54:00 - [259] i would still use shuttles even if they were more expensive! Newby ships are slow.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:57:00 - [260] Originally by: VInanath Diesel Edited by: VInanath Diesel on 16/04/2008 21:27:25 Originally by: Zeba Slasher manufactorers should get a boost from this. Its always been my shuttle of choice. Its about the same cost to make and is infinitely better than a shuttle with near identical velocity and alignment speed. And thats before you put a bog standard t1 i-stab and mwd on it. Glad I have a nice decently researched bpo on that one tbh. In the end it will be players training up all races frig to level 1 or 2 and just picking up the cheapest one in whatever station they are in if they need a fast mover to get somehwere and no shuttles are available. The market will adapt. Slasher manufacturer here... Me and my alt army are currently preparing to supply the Forge region your new and improved, eve's shuttle of choice, the Slasher! Slasher ftw! It's a dune-buggy with a warp-drive and autocannons! What could possibly be cooler? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
AngeFredinauQwertia	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:00:00 - [261] Some facts about isk: 1. The more we have them in game, the less is their value. 2. The less value of isk means more high prices and slow trade between players isk income (->EVE): 1. npc killing/mission reward (strong constant flow!) 2. insurance (medium flow) 3. trading with npc orders (trading goods) (low flow) isk outcome (<-EVE): 1. buying shuttles to refine them (strong constant flow)... now it's gone 2. skillbooks (after learning one we dont need it anymore) 3. BPO (i guess the same as skillbooks) 4. POS (not every player want this) 5. POS supplies and some other stuff (cargo containers..) So we have constant increasing of isk in EVE and very little ways to get them out. I hope that ccp will solve this somehow.
Krxon Blade	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:05:00 - [262] Originally by: AngeFredinauQwertia So we have constant increasing of isk in EVE and very little ways to get them out. I hope that ccp will solve this somehow. ISK outcome aka ISK sinks: Clone cost Jump clone cost Mail fee Implant loss Insurance Taxes Rental fees ... And list goes even further -- EVE offline game
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:05:00 - [263] Originally by: AngeFredinauQwertia Some facts about isk: 1. The more we have them in game, the less is their value. 2. The less value of isk means more high prices and slow trade between players isk income (->EVE): 1. npc killing/mission reward (strong constant flow!) 2. insurance (medium flow) 3. trading with npc orders (trading goods) (low flow) isk outcome (<-EVE): 1. buying shuttles to refine them (strong constant flow)... now it's gone 2. skillbooks (after learning one we dont need it anymore) 3. BPO (i guess the same as skillbooks) 4. POS (not every player want this) 5. POS supplies and some other stuff (cargo containers..) So we have constant increasing of isk in EVE and very little ways to get them out. I hope that ccp will solve this somehow. Destruction is the way to get isk out of the game. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
royal killer Amarr The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:44:00 - [264] Edited by: royal killer on 17/04/2008 12:44:18 I actually get the feeling they decided to help Chribba out with all the veldspar he mines, take shuttle's off market, and make trit prices go to mars....now he can start selling all the tritanium he has mined over the months in his Veldnaught
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:08:00 - [265] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/04/2008 13:09:56 Good change, I approve of this. Originally by: royal killer Edited by: royal killer on 17/04/2008 12:44:18 I actually get the feeling they decided to help Chribba out with all the veldspar he mines, take shuttle's off market, and make trit prices go to mars....now he can start selling all the tritanium he has mined over the months in his Veldnaught You do realise he'd probably crash the Trit market? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:38:00 - [266] Originally by: AngeFredinauQwertia After this change, the price of trit will rise until next price gap, or to that point when mining a veldspar will be aprox a twice more profitable than L4 missions (because most of players simply don't like mining and prefer missions and ratting). This will result isk inflation and ships priceup wich will hurt the most: 1. traders (more slow economy) 2. newbies (if they dont want to mine asteroids) 3. PvPers (because of ships price, ensurance will not cover the loss) 4. agentrunners\hunters (they play time will cost less effective wealth) In general: more mining, less shooting 1. OK, you do realize that big price changes only help most traders, right? (At least the smart/prepared ones) And if everyone mines like there's no tomorrow (ALL of my newest recruits are in the fields right now because of the quick money), then trit prices will go down. Think about this, everyone and their mother is now going out and figuring out where they are on the board. If they think they can make more mining, then they will mine. While the price of low ends may be rising (I haven't seen it yet, but I'm not in Jita), that means there's more incentive to mine; thereby causing the price to go down. This moderation will be minor and temporary at worst. Take off your tinfoil hats and go back to playing for fun.
Fulbert Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:40:00 - [267] Yeah but a big source of low cost trit just vanished. Now big alliances (those which build capital ships) will HAVE to buy tritanium in market hubs, instead of reprocessing shuttles when the trit price is higher than 3.6...
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:35:00 - [268] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Patch86 The shuttle (a not particularly fast, badly armoured ship with no slots and no redeeming features other than price and availability) is a dead donkey. Your empire war experience is lacking I guess. Shuttle is still the fastest aligning ship, escaping all non bubble camps save very bad lag. While technically true, an Atron loaded with basic T1 speed mods is as near as damnit, and has both cargo space and spare slots. And with the current inflated prices, is cheaper too.
Comrade Commizzar	Posted - 2008.04.18 02:24:00 - [269] Originally by: Fulbert Yeah but a big source of low cost trit just vanished. Now big alliances (those which build capital ships) will HAVE to buy tritanium in market hubs, instead of reprocessing shuttles when the trit price is higher than 3.6... ****************** http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=751595 Welcome to the NEW Eve....
Unforgivin Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.18 04:48:00 - [270] wts: caldari shuttle 475mil isk - collectors itam
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.18 04:58:00 - [271] If they wanted to cause inflation they should have increased isk faucets and not nerf high end miners.
Xaldor New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.04.18 05:13:00 - [272] Inflation is good for CCP, it means GTC people need to buy more cards.
Hugh Hefner Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:30:00 - [273] Edited by: Hugh Hefner on 18/04/2008 06:30:50 Is those mythical individuals for real? I mean those that used to buy hundreds of thousands of shuttles, gather them together in a apropriate station and then refine them for trit. Perhaps one can step forth in that case and own up to actually doing it regularely? As a guy who unfortunately haul trit in large ships at times to 0.0 and thus realise that refining-loot does not give trit in the correct quantity for building ships, I have been amazed at times due to the huge ammount of trit avialable on the market for reasonable prices = far below shuttle-refine-price. You guys fear that we have to few macros in the game to keep low-end-minerals down in price, right? hmm did ppl really refine shuttles for trit to super-caps? Can someone actually doing it come forth please? Otherwise this is kind of a non-issue.
Tharim Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:55:00 - [274] Bloody crybabies all of you. Its not like the sky is falling or anything.
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:27:00 - [275] Originally by: Hugh Hefner Edited by: Hugh Hefner on 18/04/2008 06:30:50 Is those mythical individuals for real? I mean those that used to buy hundreds of thousands of shuttles, gather them together in a apropriate station and then refine them for trit. Perhaps one can step forth in that case and own up to actually doing it regularely? As a guy who unfortunately haul trit in large ships at times to 0.0 and thus realise that refining-loot does not give trit in the correct quantity for building ships, I have been amazed at times due to the huge ammount of trit avialable on the market for reasonable prices = far below shuttle-refine-price. You guys fear that we have to few macros in the game to keep low-end-minerals down in price, right? hmm did ppl really refine shuttles for trit to super-caps? Can someone actually doing it come forth please? Otherwise this is kind of a non-issue. Nobody started refining shuttles yet, nobody serious anyway. trit has never been that high yet. However, CCP could have changed shuttle refine value into 1 trit to solve the issue. Insted, CCP want players to make shuttles, which in turn kinda defeats the whole reason they were created. This would be fine were it not for a extra strain upon lack of manufacturing slots in stations, and a bugged public access to manufacturing slots in pos's
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.18 08:40:00 - [276] I bought a shuttle for 20K from a war target last night. He's probably laughing his little ass off in corpmail. He won't be when he realises what I left behind in his system, and why I left it there. Economic sanctions, industrial pvp, when?
Admiral Drakkisath m3 Corp	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:38:00 - [277] so price cap for trit was 3.6 ISK, but before the patch trit price was BELOW that, like ~2isk. so why trit prices suddenly started climbing up? o.O
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:00:00 - [278] Originally by: Admiral Drakkisath so price cap for trit was 3.6 ISK, but before the patch trit price was BELOW that, like ~2isk. so why trit prices suddenly started climbing up? o.O It was actually hovering in the 3.0–3.4 region in the areas surrounding Jita... ...but as has been shown elsewhere, NPCs still sell stuff that refine to trit at a price of 3.6 ISK/unit, so the prices will fall back to normal as that knowledge spreads.
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:04:00 - [279] Apparently civilian afterburners work with the same trit price cap as shuttles did, so no permanent change to trit prices are forthcoming.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.04.19 16:16:00 - [280] brb taking my 566 accounts and quitting because its too hard to move around now Trashed sig, Shark was here
Illwill Bill Boennerup Banden	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:30:00 - [281] NERF CIVILIAN AFTERBURNERS! Seriously, though, the sollution is to make all civilian modules unrefinable, and limit NPC production to BPO's and civilian items. This would make the market more balanced and realistic, and would make mining more worth it for players who don't want to do it because of the low payout of small scale mining.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.19 22:06:00 - [282] Originally by: SiJira brb taking my 566 accounts and quitting because its too hard to move around now May I interest you in a business proposition involving the liquidation of your assets prior to your self-induced EvE-Suicide? Damn.. did I say it right?
Audemed AirHawk Alliance Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 22:32:00 - [283] Outstanding change, time to go can-flip. ------ PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 22:53:00 - [284] Originally by: Illwill Bill NERF CIVILIAN AFTERBURNERS! Seriously, though, the sollution is to make all civilian modules unrefinable, and limit NPC production to BPO's and civilian items. This would make the market more balanced and realistic, and would make mining more worth it for players who don't want to do it because of the low payout of small scale mining. If the world were completely devoid of price caps and modules weren't refinable, we would start to approach a level of price equilibrium- that is, that 1 mining cycle's worth of any material will be worth exactly the same. Simple logic; people will always mine the mineral that gets them best profit, which will mean no commonly available mineral will ever get too far ahead, price wise. You'd end up with vedspar being worth almost as much as Omber, and such. Which, considering the material compositions of most items, and considering how price is inevitably tied to mineral costs, would mean some extremely EXTREMELY expensive ships and modules, with razor thin profit margins. Not really an ideal, game play wise... ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Macdeth Ephemeral Misgivings	Posted - 2008.04.19 23:00:00 - [285] Originally by: Hugh Hefner hmm did ppl really refine shuttles for trit to super-caps? Can someone actually doing it come forth please? Otherwise this is kind of a non-issue. In the pre-freighter days it was sometimes though seldom worthwhile to refine shuttles for tritanium on the spot. I likely spent somewhere in the hundreds of billions of isk on coupling arrays in their day, since at roughly the same price point infinite instant supply trumps waiting for buy orders every time.

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It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(