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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Win Sui
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
38
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Posted - 2012.03.13 22:17:00 -
[871] - Quote
Shadoo wrote:I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes
Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field
So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for
But that was 3 years ago
I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE
And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix
What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?
How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out
Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change
What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)
What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?
With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change
And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?
Now this is a pretty ******* good post. Not too far from what CFC wanted afaik. |
SuperBeastie
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:18:00 -
[872] - Quote
Shadoo wrote:I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes
Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field
So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for
But that was 3 years ago
I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE
And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix
What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?
How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out
Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change
What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)
What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?
With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change
And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?
This is a great point.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2648
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:18:00 -
[873] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled? Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system. But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.
hmm how do you get a subcap fleet out of a staging POS when they have friendly supers operating in the system "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:18:00 -
[874] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Machine Delta wrote: You might not be keen on the idea of using more than one ship type in a fleet but there are things called covops, interdictors, and a thing called probing. If you use those with 200 bombers then yeah you could whittle down a 1200 man fleet or marginalize it from its strategic objectives fairly easily. It's painful to see you try so hard here. You should really step away from the keyboard before you admit to wanting to RMT your titan on these forums in addition to the ones you already have cried on.
1) Ive said my titan will be fine and will function the same as it does now, with a slight delay before the damage hits. Can you identify me saying that I'm RMTing MY titan? 2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??
We both know if I link to a post from kugu it will get deleted. You know what you've said and so have most of the people here. It's been really humorous on this side.
If a fleet of 1200 ships are never in a position to be bombed then they aren't a threat to anything. That would have to be 1200 ships either docked or sitting in their own POS. Neither of which is a concern for 200.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
46
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Posted - 2012.03.13 22:18:00 -
[875] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled?
Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system.
But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.
sometimes people have to fight where there are no towers to hide in meight
also drag bubbles |
Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:20:00 -
[876] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled? Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system. But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.
Hey wait, are you saying that a few hundred subcaps can't do anything against a big group of supercaps? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1837
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:23:00 -
[877] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Its not over until the patch goes live
:shobon:
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Durr Hurrr Durr
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:24:00 -
[878] - Quote
I'm not saying thes nerf is perfict, im not even saying its good. All im saying is
TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLO |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2633
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:27:00 -
[879] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled? Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system. But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.
so you drop on the supercaps
suddenly, the 1200 guys have to leave the pos and you can then bubble them
i hope this helped you in your quest to become average at eve online |
Doris Dents
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
170
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:28:00 -
[880] - Quote
Thank you for these much needed fixes. I'm interested in EVE again. |
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Solinuas
Beyond Evil and Good
86
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:29:00 -
[881] - Quote
Confirming this nerf came about because PL dropped titans on the first CCP fleet.
So PL this is YOUR FAULT... get out... just get out
(Sarcastic post, since i have no doubt that some idiots will think i am serious) |
Swearte Widfarend
Mortis Noir. Ineluctable.
50
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:29:00 -
[882] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote: Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.
1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen.
Oh, god. Go back to school. Yes, it does. TWICE in every rotation. Draw a line from your target through your anchor. Now draw a circle around your anchor. See the circle bisected by the line. TWICE. CCP is changing ship skill trees. How ship skills should be |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:30:00 -
[883] - Quote
Not that I don't adore all these tears, but isn't this a little heavy-handed? I would have preferred to see a small tracking nerf (so tracking titans can't blap hictors) and the elimination of combat-refitting rather than a straight up "titans are now as horrible as dreads" hell-nerf.
I mean seriously, dropping in tracking titans and then refitting on the fly to a 50m ehp tank when you get primaried is pretty ********, but so are Titans that can't hit speed-tanking carriers and take fifteen minutes to lock a POS.
I also don't see "minor tracking nerf plus removal of in-fight re-fitting" on your list of "things we considered but opted not to do," so maybe you'd like to consider it now?
Alternatively, since Titans are now just dreads that move around, let them dock so their pilots can do things other than shoot structures on occasion. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:32:00 -
[884] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote: Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.
1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen. Oh, god. Go back to school. Yes, it does. TWICE in every rotation. Draw a line from your target through your anchor. Now draw a circle around your anchor. See the circle bisected by the line. TWICE.
You're dumb as hell, just saying. |
Acwron
Meet The Fockers Vera Cruz Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:32:00 -
[885] - Quote
Andski wrote:Acwron wrote:Achaiah7 wrote:The tears, they precious. I can haz your stuffs? You can't. Cos you can't fly it. Now go back into your drake. If I recall right, we relieved you of the burden of Nyx ownership. You replaced it, and lost a Nyx and Ragnarok shortly thereafter. HEH
Your spies are dead and burried long time ago prolly.
1. I do post with my main 2. I never lost a titan. 3. I lost a Nyx cos mittani is a jerk and is using his CSM chairman position ( which is outside the game ) in the game to scam people. 3. I lost another Nyx trying to save my friend's titan. 3. I did replace one Nyx and bought 1 more titan and was aiming to get another 2. If they really nerf the titans, I won't buy another, of course. I will also stop most of my accounts and keep only 3-4. I have 12 now. CCP will be happy I suppose. 4. No, you can't have my stuff cos you simply don't have the skills to use most of my ships.
Regarding the Titan nerf : If it gets to that, I think would be fair for us to have the skill points back to reallocate them into something useful and the isk spent on the titans as well ( market price not production price ). |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:32:00 -
[886] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote: Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.
1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen. Oh, god. Go back to school. Yes, it does. TWICE in every rotation. Draw a line from your target through your anchor. Now draw a circle around your anchor. See the circle bisected by the line. TWICE. Rotate the circle 90 degrees |
Uggs386
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:33:00 -
[887] - Quote
Ok so now that you have "balanced" titans, can you start working on scale issues in eve.
For example one possible idea: The larger the fleet the more difficult it is to organize and control the fleet.
I feel like one of the reasons huge blobs are so powerful atm is because you only need 1 person for every 250 players who actually know how to play eve. So you can mass recruit a bunch of people who know basic eve mechanics and go own zone everything because you have a few dudes who actually know how to pvp.
So maybe change up the fleet interface controls. Make it so fleet commanders can no longer fleet warp, regroup, broadcast targets etc. Make it so that only wing commanders and squad commanders can execute those orders. This would force 5 people per a fleet of 250 actually have to know how to pvp. Anyways just am idea on how to improve the game. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
317
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:33:00 -
[888] - Quote
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****. - CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:34:00 -
[889] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote: Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.
1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen. Oh, god. Go back to school. Yes, it does. TWICE in every rotation. Draw a line from your target through your anchor. Now draw a circle around your anchor. See the circle bisected by the line. TWICE. You're dumb as hell, just saying.
has to be said |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
435
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:34:00 -
[890] - Quote
3d is hard |
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Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
578
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:34:00 -
[891] - Quote
Can we have this thread moved to COAD now?
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Powers Sa
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:34:00 -
[892] - Quote
Great thing PL is bros with test:
Quote: (4:24:39 PM) goons.pleaseignore.com: Attention test and test pets, all officer Sebo's must sold to the alliance. Pricing structure to follow, anyone found selling officer Sebo's outside of test will kicked for test f**king.
Test Officer Sensor Booster Interdiction begins today. |
kdsjfjhiskhfs
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:35:00 -
[893] - Quote
great job ccp, finally no more "i win button" in eve
also "elyte" pvp ally tears are best tears.
pl and raiden cry more please. it's delicious. |
Heathkit
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
55
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:35:00 -
[894] - Quote
I actually really like the meta-game that overpowered titans creates. We have to tightly control super production and maintain an arms race with our enemies. During an invasion, taking out a titan in production is really useful. I'm glad titans can no longer blap subcap fleets, but making them pointless reduces this extra driver of conflict.
What I'd really like to see is titans essentially become nuclear bombs. You care that you have more than your enemy, you race to build them, but actually using them is almost as harmful to you as to your enemy.
Titans should get back their AoE doomsdays. But instead of just taking 50k racial isotopes to activate, they should destroy the ship, and probably pod the pilot as well. I would have no problem getting my fleet welped by a titan if I knew it was costing the other guy something, and if they could only use that ability as often as they can build a new titan. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
438
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:35:00 -
[895] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled? Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system. But hey, at least you had 200 bombers. so you drop on the supercaps suddenly, the 1200 guys have to leave the pos and you can then bubble them i hope this helped you in your quest to become average at eve online
What am i dropping on them with, I can only field 200 guys and we've already had another goon suggest all 200 guys should be in bombers to hope to kill the 1200 man sub cap fleet?
I'm ok with admitting EVE is strictly about numbers now, it seems to be the CFC that has a problem with admitting thats what they want (and have achieved)
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
462
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:38:00 -
[896] - Quote
hey CCP can you make it so when you're in a titan the size of the 'self destruct ship' command is increased to size 64pt font? also reduce self destruct timer to 1sec kthx |
Swearte Widfarend
Mortis Noir. Ineluctable.
50
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:38:00 -
[897] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote: Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.
1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen. Oh, god. Go back to school. Yes, it does. TWICE in every rotation. Draw a line from your target through your anchor. Now draw a circle around your anchor. See the circle bisected by the line. TWICE. You're dumb as hell, just saying.
So Titans can't hit MWD drakes with the signature of carriers flying in a ball (orbiting an anchor) that is keeping range when their transversal hits zero, because geometry failed me, but your enlightening post has cleared it all up.
Thanks! CCP is changing ship skill trees. How ship skills should be |
Acwron
Meet The Fockers Vera Cruz Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:40:00 -
[898] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're not happy with......
LOL You just started so very wrong ! You are not happy ?! ?!? You are supposed to be happy only if WE are happy ! Because we pay you, not the other way around ! Jesus, fire this guy, fast ! CCP Greyscale, no disrespect but please, go find a job where you could be useful. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:40:00 -
[899] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote: Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.
1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen. Oh, god. Go back to school. Yes, it does. TWICE in every rotation. Draw a line from your target through your anchor. Now draw a circle around your anchor. See the circle bisected by the line. TWICE. You're dumb as hell, just saying. So Titans can't hit MWD drakes with the signature of carriers flying in a ball (orbiting an anchor) that is keeping range when their transversal hits zero, because geometry failed me, but your enlightening post has cleared it all up. Thanks! If your range from your target is maintained throughout your orbit of the anchor, your trans never hits 0. |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
578
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:41:00 -
[900] - Quote
Uggs386 wrote:Ok so now that you have "balanced" titans, can you start working on scale issues in eve.
For example one possible idea: The larger the fleet the more difficult it is to organize and control the fleet.
I feel like one of the reasons huge blobs are so powerful atm is because you only need 1 person for every 250 players who actually know how to play eve. So you can mass recruit a bunch of people who know basic eve mechanics and go own zone everything because you have a few dudes who actually know how to pvp.
So maybe change up the fleet interface controls. Make it so fleet commanders can no longer fleet warp, regroup, broadcast targets etc. Make it so that only wing commanders and squad commanders can execute those orders. This would force 5 people per a fleet of 250 actually have to know how to pvp. Anyways just am idea on how to improve the game.
You know I suggested locking speed penalties as more and more ships lock/start locking in order to simulate a LoS mechanic so smaller groups can actually do something against blobs like, two years ago. It would be a game changed for sure and the mindless blob would have to actually think and go after several targets at once instead of the 500 shoot the same guy.
Pretty sure all null power blocks wanted nothing to do with it. My question to you and anyone else: What alliances would do well in this situation and which ones would flounder?
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