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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
ChuckNorris CRO Minmatar Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.26 07:45:00 - [1651] Lets everybody fly Drakes and at least it will be realistic:P CCP, give us all the favor and don't boost/nerf anything more cause obvious is that you are very confused.
Gods Coldblood THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.07.26 07:45:00 - [1652] Edited by: Gods Coldblood on 26/07/2008 07:45:35 I seriously think this is going to far... I dont like moan about CCP changes to the game, i like to think i adapt to every new environment im faced with. So then, we have now ingame ships like the falcon that can shut ur ship down to the point where you couldn't fight back eveen if you wanted to but you had the small change of getting away if you were lucky. SO then CCP and the amazing Dev's decide, " wouldn't it be a really cool if we could make a module than can turn another players module off and keep them warp scrambled at the same time!! " I can see where this is going sooner or later we will have lots of other modules out that can basicly shut down your ship to the point where u cant actually do anything... As for my Blaster boat i have come to love, me thinks its future is in the Devs hands P.S WTB New Dev's ____________________________ My video Way of the Warrior : Anxiety
Cutesmile	Posted - 2008.07.26 07:46:00 - [1653] Edited by: Cutesmile on 26/07/2008 07:48:57 Originally by: kOZMIC sNIPER Edited by: kOZMIC sNIPER on 26/07/2008 07:44:43 Nobody else is posting and I still can't sleep. So here is another for ya Nozh! Your stroking the beard part, on the blog! From the looks of it, that hasn't been the only thing your use to stroking. You SUCK! You make eve suck! PLZ to walk into oncoming traffic or something. If you have an eve character do us all a favor in the eve community and add that piece of shit to the terminate pile. You really don't know how to play this game! :DDDD We will need i think Elite IV MMO. Pls Mister David Braben and Ian Bell read this post.
Escobar Noreaga Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.26 07:47:00 - [1654] the Emoragetears in this thread put a warm fuzzy feeling in my belly Quote: null
Amanda Avskalare	Posted - 2008.07.26 07:53:00 - [1655] Don't nerf Gallente Don't boost Caldari (its fine if u boost there precision missiles though..) Now, if you all stop blobing, there will be no need for a way to counter blobs!! wOOt!!! And now to fix the lag.. oh, whait with no blobs there will be much less lag!! 2x wOOt!! oh.. whait.. u can't stop blobing can u.. it's obvious that more ppl = more power... oh well.. whait!! make a stacking penalty f÷r every ship on grid that kicks in when local goes above 200!! that would fix jita to!! AND the ever growing misson hubs!! fracking amazing!!!
Drumul Oaselor	Posted - 2008.07.26 07:54:00 - [1656] as a missile user, these changes are ultra groovy brother
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.26 07:57:00 - [1657] Wow this is still going strong. Anyway, to those muppets who can't read, the warp disruptors are not going to stop MWDs. Warp scramblers - you know, those modules you never fit because they only go to 6.5km or so normally - they will disrupt the MWD. So that's four pages of totally inaccurate whines we can delete right now... ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
mishkof Caldari Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:01:00 - [1658] Edited by: mishkof on 26/07/2008 08:00:54 Originally by: Wil Smithx The blasterboat is already dead, this is just another nail in the coffin. Theres not any reason to use blasters if you can use torps or lasers now. Even projectiles get to hit at 20km... Blasters need a damage increase imo Nanos killed the blaster boat. I know not everyone in the community can remember the mutilation videos, but the key to soloing used to be packing a big punch and killing your enemy quickly to GTFO. Now that is irrelevant with nanos, as there is a far larger margin for error. All it takes is 3 bil ISK to mask your horrible tactical decisions. Also we are gonna see who forget to scout and use a scanner with these changes and your single best pilots will actually mean something now instead of just a guy who can go 10K plus. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Dzajic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:02:00 - [1659] Do you have any idea how much will changing webs to 50%, making MWDs disableable, and nod boosting ABs (indeed, they will actually nerf higher end ones) will completely change PVP mechanics of EVE?
Cutesmile	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:05:00 - [1660] Originally by: ChuckNorris CRO Lets everybody fly Drakes and at least it will be realistic:P CCP, give us all the favor and don't boost/nerf anything more cause obvious is that you are very confused. Oh wait my main have BC lvl5 and heavy missiles skills. I think i starting now the Caldari cruiser lvl5 for Nighthawk and lets get ready the rumble. Hey CCP i need more 20km/sec speed missiles and 20k/s explosion velocity and i will be fine and the game will be more realistic. :D Oh i see when cried the Caldaris, less training time for missiles, best achura class in the game, no missed shot, useless tracking distruptor, heavily boosted ECM. Now they can hit anything. Just a question for them ? Anyone shot with AC or blaster a scratching shot or miss ? Just try to use when a ship staying for those guns optimal and missing the shot or use against them a weapon distruptor.
Ishkara Blaine	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:10:00 - [1661] Edited by: Ishkara Blaine on 26/07/2008 08:12:16 OK...I've read the first 3.5 pages and the last 1...so I apologise in advance if this has already been said. First I really like the intention of the ideas; I have always found BS's travelling at 4k+/sec disturbing. But... - I agree that it looks like it reduces guerilla tactics, so this is deeply worrying as someone who enjoys small gangs. Testing on sisi will probably clarify what needs to be changed. - The ability to run away makes people more likely to take risks. Which means more PvP, even if it is frustrating at the end (ie. they run away). Personally, I like to be able to run away, and I feel like I have succeeded when one or two stragglers die while the rest flee. - It also seems to be a boost to gate campers. MWD & Cloak will still work, but anyone unfortunate enough to lose cloak (or be unable to cloak) faces almost certain death. At the moment I can't see any way to have a chance of surviving gate camps other than Bringing a Bigger Blob (BaBB (tm)). - Affecting MWDs by scramblers but not disruptors, bubbles and 'dictors seemd very odd. - It is also deeply worrying that so much is being changed at once. In such circumstances balance is very likely to be lost completely. --- I have no real solutions to the above concerns, but as I said I like the original stated intention. However, once thing did occur to me: Not sure if it is at all practical, but when the sensor booster 'nerfs' were brought in, scripts were added to allow something like the old behaviour. Could the same be done with either ships or MWDs? eg. - An MWD script that makes it immune to warp scrambling, but reduces speed boost to 250%. - A ship script that says 'I want my BS to go 4k/sec' BUT which reduces armour by 50%. The above scripts are not really well thought thru and are there to inspire comments from more experienced players. But the intention here is to ameliorate the sudden changes and so reduce the likelihood of massive imbalance.
Damion Zyne Des Esseintes Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:11:00 - [1662] Well, I stopped reading the thread somewhere around page 40 yesterday evening my time. I will just add some more knee-jerk comments (wow just the thing the already worked up community needed) before I read up the last pages, so just ignore the now obsolete comments. Caldari: These changes are a huge boost for them. With the reduction of the overall speed of ships the size cruiser upwards, there is now no way of reducing incoming missile damage with defender horrible broken. ThatÆs while missiles are already the only weapon systems not bothered with tracking, optimal and falloff. ThatÆs not all, they already have the best fleet sniper and, with the nerf to webs and nano setups, the most powerfull racial EW. Amarr: The reduced speed will help with the already good tracking lasers have. Obviously the changes will hit their nano ships as well, but then the racial EW with tracking disruptors might save the already good curse. Afterall amarr was never supposed to be zipping around anyway. Gallente: Enough people have commented on the effect to blaster boats (scram acting as web, their own web strength reduced and thus even more problems with tracking etc.). The recons and EAS will get a slight boost thanks to scrams. While Im at ità the scrams. CCP created scripts for modules with two effects, forcing people to choose one. Now they are going to create another module with two effects, and a rather powerfull, that does not need scripts at all. ThatÆs some good planning there. Minmatar: Oh man, where to start. The Hyena will probably end up a bit slower than now, thus dying even faster. Eve if not, the racial EW got shafted and is rather useless now. On the plus side, this will free up the midslots for our other great EW that are target painters. Same goes for the recons. They were extremely usefull because of nano gangs / ships. With nano ships bigger than ceptors pretty much gone (besides some people with billions upon billions to fit their nano cruiser /HACs) there is just not much need to web anything at 40km. Who cares about the captor orbiting you at 40km ? To make things even worse, the web strength is reduced to 50-60%. So when you web something, your now sluggish huginn will be unable to keep things at range or catch up to put a point on it. A slower Stabber will just take too much dmg from pretty much everything to be still usefull. The vagaà. Ironically the vaga was the in a way the worst nano ship. The real problems with nano ships came from ships like the Ishtar that was able to lay down dmg while at full speed. The vaga was: a)not permarunning with most setups b)had to slow down to do any dmg To not kill this ship completely, and thus the whole matari HAC range, this ship needs a speed of 3,5km with a fully trained clone, hardwirings and T1 rigs before gang boosts and booster or pirate implants. So we are now stuck with two rather crappy racial EWs. Our racial bonus (speed) becomes pointless on all ships. To echo earlier comments, speed was largly not a problem at all and a vital way of fighting blobs. Everyone would have been fine with polies being brought back in line with other rigs and certain ships getting their speed reduced. Instead of changing some stuff you opted to change an important part of combat in a radical way. I can only hope that you guys really know what youre doing, unfort. I donÆt think you do. /rant off
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:17:00 - [1663] Originally by: burek <post 1760> Originally by: Kerfira 90% of people happy with something will not voice their opinion. 90% of people not happy with something will voice their opinion. That doesn't mean the unhappy people are right.... Oh dear alt, the irony... You just described the months of nanowhining by failures... Why irony? It doesn't mean they're wrong either..... Whining about something, or the amount of people whining about it doesn't determine right or wrong. It simply determines who whines.... Lots of people complained over nanos. CCP investigated the issue and determined they were right and started doing something about it. Now the nano-fans loosing their I-Win buttons complain.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:27:00 - [1664] Originally by: MD Dawg Ok, so how the hell are people going to escape blobs? The way they always did.... Use a scout in a ceptor! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:28:00 - [1665] Just to reiterate a point that I think got a bit drowned in here: Balancing should be done with stock fittings. T2 Modules, T1 rigs, common LP-store available hardwirings. And at that point than, one needs to ask himself, if rare module / implants that give a benefit beyond these stock fittings are wanted, or not. If yes, you simply have to accept that a full set of rare modules will create interesting effects, that is part of the deal. If not, faction, deadspace, officer and cosmos modules and implants have to go. Bang, remove from game. You can't balance the tank of a BS or HIC on Gist boosters and Estamel Invuls. For the same reason, you can't balance HACs, Ceptors, Dictors on T2 Polys, Gistum MWD, full HG snakes and shaqil.
Tobruk Black Omega Security	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:31:00 - [1666] Thank god, I was so sick of small gangs ruining eve, all these "small time" pvp corps need to nut up and join a big allaince finally an eve where giant fleet battles and strength through bigger numbers is the true path to victory ---------------------------------------------- Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
Weer Treyt	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:31:00 - [1667] Uninspired, inconsiderate. Lots of unintended side-effects will crop up. Factional balance is disrupted, quite some ships become completely pointless. Failnerf. Weer Treyt
Roninix	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:35:00 - [1668] sigh one thing that all companies need to learn is to never let the engineers do the PR. On top of that, never take anything away from the public without being prepared to give them something in return. Take away their land and give them marbles and they will praise you for it. Take away their marbles and give them nothing will cause widespread angst. I'm sorry but pulling this stunt after delivering a heaping slag dubbed Faction Warfare just doesn't cut it.
Prez21 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:35:00 - [1669] Originally by: Yaay Originally by: GreGh Rakrot so today we had 3 man nano gang roaming, we pewpew some stuff on gates then just when it dies gate flashes few times and local goes up 10 or so, thorax uncloaks we start hurting him then cyno pops! and 3 carriers jump in, on our 3 man gang, with rest of their gang rolling in... we get chased for few jumps and manage to get rid of them thanks to our speed ofc now imagine 3 man bs/bc gang roaming like that... ccp, this blanket style changes that you came up on 5h brain-storming session is overdoing it yes, balance speed, np with that, but there are less complicated core game changing ways of doing that like: - balancing polys (dont know why this hasnt been done next day after rigs were introduced) - stack penalty for all speed mods/rigs combined (as suggested) - simply reducing MWD speed boost - adding more counters like fixing bonuses on lachesis/arazu so they can properly damp game has changed so much and is so complicated that no radical changes should be applied but instead slow step-by-step balancing if you go on with this changes ...no i wont quit lol, ill just find next type of roaming gangs that will probably soon become next subject to endless cries and whines on this forums ...its not like i would do that the first time, think its more like the 4th time ^^ ...and round and round we go soooo, omg have a scout or bail earlier? Plz dont give advice on any way to run a gang, your the reason all the tri corps left req because you was an absolute joke.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:41:00 - [1670] A few points: - People who say that it was possible to go on 0.0 roams before nanos, so it should be possible after. You are mistaken. 0.0 has changed. You will be surrounded by defenders using jumpportals and wiped out in your small gang if you jump through the next gate. Its not that nanogangs don't use scouts, its that nanogangs can go through small gatecamps without being slowed down enough for a big blob to catch them. - That is not just a matter of getting to warp faster. A nanogang will typically be able to jump into a 10-15 man gatecamp and run off without losses if they just run off. Nanogangs don't kill anything while running off, but they can run through smaller gatecamps. That is important because otherwise the only alternative becomes to log off or cloak (unless you want to Leeroy and die horribly). - Not being able to be hit while doing 5kms is not that much of a problem, since you won't be hitting anything yourself either. Its almost like a cloak, except there are counters to nanoing, but not to cloaking. - Do not base your game changes on EFT, or even Sisi. Sisi is not Tranquility, you don't have to deal with motherships, titans, jumpbridge networks on Sisi. All of those affect the environment in which nanos are used, and are part of why nanos are needed to keep small gang warfare outside of camping a bloody gate for 3 hours viable. - If you make changes, make them gradually. Why would you change 15 things at the same time? Make 1 or 2 changes, then see if the result is what you want. If you change 15 things at the same time, and you **** up, then you still don't know which of the 15 things was 'too much'. - If nanos are no longer viable, it will make less fights happen. People are not gonna keep coming in small gangs if they get blobbed time after time and forced to logoff. If you would give normal ships just a bit more ability to fight back when attacked by nanos, that would not have the same effect as reducing the speed of nanoships. - Why don't you add a new type of T2 ammo that does less damage but has superior tracking? You have the T2 ammo that does more damage but has 75% penalty on tracking. Add another type of T2 ammo that has say a 50% bonus on tracking. Then as long as people carry that they have a shot at even hitting those 10kms vagas.
ChuckNorris CRO Minmatar Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:45:00 - [1671] Originally by: Tobruk Thank god, I was so sick of small gangs ruining eve, all these "small time" pvp corps need to nut up and join a big allaince finally an eve where giant fleet battles and strength through bigger numbers is the true path to victory m8 please go play something else, didnt heard the bigger bu.....t for long time. path of victory, hahahaha. Weird that someone speaks like that, you are probably doing pos fuel thingy most of the time and you are listening the fight stories when your mates come back from battle. true path of victory:) hehehe
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:53:00 - [1672] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: MD Dawg Ok, so how the hell are people going to escape blobs? The way they always did.... Use a scout in a ceptor! Its not about not jumping into blobs. I guess you never flew nanogangs. What happens is this. You enter some enemies space, you get scouted 2 or 3 jumps out of a station system. Moving throught quickly, your scout spots a target (a ratter or a small gatecamp) and the gang engages. Try to score a few kills quickly, then run off. By that time, the opponent is on alert and starts assembling a defensive gang, and jumping through jumpgates. You got a few minutes, maybe 10-15 and then there is a 40-50 man gang chasing you, except that they can use jumpbridges, and you can't. So they get out in front of you. Now that is where is a difference between a non-nano gang and a nanogang. A nanogang can at least try to burst through the enemy fleet and if they are poorly organised engage it. Even if outnumbered 2 to 1. If the defence fleet is competent though, a nanogang will not score kills. Even if the defence fleet is not specifically setup to deal with nanos, with proper tactics they can make it impossible for the nanogang to get any kills. What it will typically end up with is the defence gang sitting on a gate, trying to snipe off Nano-HACs, while the nanofleet hovers at 100km distance trying to pickoff small ships in the enemy fleet that get repped by logistics ships. The non-nano gang has 2 options. Either log off or jump in and die. If they fitted cloaks, the third option is to safespot and cloak and wait till the enemy gets bored. I think the nanogang is balanced with the defenders here. Defenders can always avoid engaging the nanogang, but if they want to engage they have quite a few options. - Have a nanogang themselves. - Play undock games at their station. - Jump around the nanogang with jumpbridges and try to get a better position at a gate. - Use Huginns/Rapiers. - Use RR - Use neutralizers - Use ECM - Use Carriers/Motherships under a cynojammer. - Use superior numbers of cruisers and interceptors. The nanogang has a distinct advantage against opponents that take none of these available options. But I think that is fair considering that a nanogang will be vastly more expensive to replace. And just like the nanogang can always disengage, so can a normal fleet. It is very very rare that a normal fleet that wants to disengage is prevented from doing so by a nanogang. If that happens it probably means they were 5 BS without support, which is a stupid fleet anyway and deserves to die.
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:58:00 - [1673] I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the following issue: from the graphs it is clear that Assault Frigs are getting a MWD speed boost - how is this speed boost effected? Higher base speed, lower mass, or higher MWD multiplier? Sid
Nathan West Cataclysm Enterprises HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:59:00 - [1674] jeez, I havent seen so much whining since they nerfed the nanodomi. Adapt or die simple as that. Everybody knew that nanos would be nerfed in one way or the other. I really like the new speed progression through all the ship types and that ABs and scramblers wont be as useless as before. My suggestion for the scrambler would be to use scripts on that, either disable the MWD or 2pts not both the same time.
Demus DaVet	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:59:00 - [1675] Edited by: Demus DaVet on 26/07/2008 09:00:33 We should all get into our Caldari cruisers and HACs and start spamming missiles. Why bother with getting gunnery and navigation skills and fitting your ship and flying into range to hit something ? Slap on some heavy launchers or cruise, a couple of invulnerability fields and hit F1 - F6. Same thing will happen with a MP Apoc with a couple of tracking comps, but at least the pilot there will need to have trained a couple of skills to get into it. What I find really disturbing is that in the devblog is mentioned that missiles should always hit their respective ship class irregardless that missiles suffer no other penalty like optimal/tranvsersal/sig radius (since targets that will be MWDing will still be it) and their range is always longer than needed in realistic combat situations. To me it means that the dev(s) behind this simply have never been in an actual fight, big or small, roaming or camp.
Drumul Oaselor	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:02:00 - [1676] Edited by: Drumul Oaselor on 26/07/2008 09:04:55 Edited by: Drumul Oaselor on 26/07/2008 09:04:23 you whiners, look at the new speed chart in the blog, interceptor speed is the same, so fly that if you want super speed, no more nanohacs for you haha and stop crying about missiles hitting, with your nanoships you wouldn't get hit by missiles at all and how is that balanced?? you are just being childish
Lee ChanKa Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:12:00 - [1677] Originally by: Drumul Oaselor Edited by: Drumul Oaselor on 26/07/2008 09:04:55 Edited by: Drumul Oaselor on 26/07/2008 09:04:23 you whiners, look at the new speed chart in the blog, interceptor speed is the same, so fly that if you want super speed, no more nanohacs for you haha and stop crying about missiles hitting, with your nanoships you wouldn't get hit by missiles at all and how is that balanced?? you are just being childish yea you right..in pasiv drake(dont wont 2 take NH ) you can easy ** 4 hacs with right skills...drake -100 mil VS 4 hacs 700-800 mil...and IF this hapend in pasive drake you can kill like 5 hacs easy or more.. in game convo me il giwe you 10 links wher im killing 3-4 hacs with drake..point is NANO HACS ARE NOT PROBLEM NERF THEN **ING DRAKES
ChuckNorris CRO Minmatar Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:14:00 - [1678] Originally by: Drumul Oaselor you whiners, look at the new speed chart in the blog, interceptor speed is the same, so fly that if you want super speed, no more nanohacs for you haha You are probably frustrated with experience against nano ships and your ratting BS had alot of problems in the past:P better dayz coming:)
Drumul Oaselor	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:15:00 - [1679] nanoed ships put the "miss" in missiles
Tal Notts Caldari Divine Power R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:17:00 - [1680] Edited by: Tal Notts on 26/07/2008 09:18:19 for me all these cahnges are a nerf to everything i fly and have trained for. i was a caldari pilot initially so not even the best for nano ships (some might say the worst) but from the beginning i've invested all my skills in being able to fly nanos, i've cross trained cruiser 5 from other races when i can barely fly a raven. Now all these changes are goign to nerf me but i will be prepared to except them if the ****ed changes to a warp scrambler don't go into effect. It's just too much, combined with a reactivation delay on a MWD especially. As stated the objective was to "balance" speed not utterly ** it. edit: wow you can't say "r e t a r d" or "r a p e" on the forums Also i think the change to webs is really unfair, i don't fly minmatar ships and all in all the proposals would probably benifit me but i just feel the proposed changes are just too unfair on rapier/huginn pilots.

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