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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:29:00 - [1681] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Sorry? Arazu, domi scram + claymore in gang + overheated. This isn't as unrealistic as a 15k/sec vaga, and it has a 37.5k 2pt scram. but I don't have recon ships 5, A friend with a claymore, or a domi scram forum whine time!!!! A T2 scrambler will be at 18km with maxed out Recon Ship Skill and with Overheat 21,6km This is still a good range, but not overpowered. Also the Arazu risks something. Sure a Domination Scrambler will have a much greater range, as will be a probably more reasonably priced Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler. A Zealot with Scorch will have you within range, as well as a Pulse Laser Armageddon. Blasterships were already dead, due to Nanoships. But they will be viable PvP Ships again. Neutron Blaster Mega with Neutron and Null ammo: Optimal 11km, Falloff 16km. Blaster-Rokh same weapon and ammo: Optimal 17km and Falloff 16km. Pulse Laser Armageddon, can easily get an optimal of 45km or more and do not get me started on the Apoc. Dampeners are of course a factor but still, the Arazu will not be able to scramble all their targets and dampen them, so that they are unable to lock something. What I can already think of, is that High Damage, Remote Repairing BS are quite powerful when used together with EW-Cruisers and Frigs. PvP will not be dead, just a bit riskier then before, when certain setups allowed near immunity. So please stop whining, adapt or GTFO.
Arlenna Molatov Caldari The 59th Parallel	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:29:00 - [1682] Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 26/07/2008 09:29:51 WOW...how the tides have turned!! First its the PVPers whining about the carebears whining so much. And now FATE deals a hand where the roles are reversed...the PVPers whining. Oh...the IRONY! lol Anyways...i'll take another quote that has been stated on these forums directly from the PVPers for the last, nearly 6 years... " if you dont like it, quit!! Can I have ur stuff!!??" So, moral of the story...dont like the nerf? Then fuking quit and go play WOW.
ChuckNorris CRO Minmatar Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:31:00 - [1683] Originally by: Drumul Oaselor Edited by: Drumul Oaselor on 26/07/2008 09:04:55 Edited by: Drumul Oaselor on 26/07/2008 09:04:23 you whiners, look at the new speed chart in the blog, interceptor speed is the same, so fly that if you want super speed, no more nanohacs for you haha and stop crying about missiles hitting, with your nanoships you wouldn't get hit by missiles at all and how is that balanced?? you are just being childish If we gonna talk about nerfing then there are some stuff that are priority before we start to think about nano/speed. Understand that you still wanna play DRAKE-ONLINE ! Wake up before you start to talk about nano thing. Most of properly skilled/fitted Ravens/Drake's hitting Vagabond and make him run away because there is no enough cap for mwd-ing and orbiting, you can do mwd short time with max skills and after that you are f..... up. Nano nerf/speed and that mean shield extenders are useless, tell me how would you fit a vaga then and what will you do with that fit!?
Lee ChanKa Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:33:00 - [1684] Originally by: Tobruk Thank god, I was so sick of small gangs ruining eve, all these "small time" pvp corps need to nut up and join a big allaince finally an eve where giant fleet battles and strength through bigger numbers is the true path to victory I HOPE YOU ARE SARCASTIC!!!!! I DONT WONT TO GO IN BIG FLLET FIGHTS I DONT WONT TO FIGHT FOR DISPO MOONS FOR MORONIC LEADERSHIP I DONT WONT 2 CAMP SISTEM 2 DAYS FOR POS BASHING I WONT TO GO ROAMING SOLO OR IN SMALLER GANG IF ITC POSIBLE PLEASE CCP DONT DESTROY FUN WHICH I HAWE 3 AND HALF YEAR ofcorse i will not stop playing whatever change you make with any patch..BUT i will spend all mine isk 2 faind how 2 roam solo again if thet is not posible and if you PUSH ME in some big alliance if i wont 2 survive THEN I WILL LEFT GAME with 0 isk and 0 ships in hangar dont make game harder for pvp players and easyer for NPC PLAYERS THIS PATCH WILL NOT TUCH PIRATES ALSO BECAUSE THEY FLY HEAVY TANKED SHIPS AND ECM AND MORONIC PPL WHO DONT KNOW WHAT IS ROMAING IN SMALLER GANG AND SOLOROAMING
Grath Telkin Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:38:00 - [1685] Originally by: Arlenna Molatov y 6 years... " if you dont like it, quit!! Can I have ur stuff!!??" So, moral of the story...dont like the nerf? Then fuking quit and go play WOW. This is too awesome right here. I wonder if this could be avoided with the same "i quit if you do this" 100 page thread all the carrier guys threw up when that change hit the forums. also, I hope all the nano pilots who do quit because they're being forced into a style of play they purposely trained out of simply trash all their crap, tbh, people like this fungus wouldn't deserve it anyway.
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:40:00 - [1686] Edited by: Stalina on 26/07/2008 09:40:49 Originally by: Drumul Oaselor nanoed ships put the "miss" in missiles Quoting the clueless. If you would have ever flown one, you would now that non-interceptor ships get hit by missiles. It is just...well...the average pilot that uses EM versus minmatar t2 or kinetic versus gallente t2... And if you get killed by a single ishtar you deserve to get killed.
Cown Caldari Xenophobes	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:43:00 - [1687] I love you CCP!
Rhamnousia Caldari Pelennor Swarm Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:49:00 - [1688] I've read about 30 pages of this thread. The good ones, anyway. And have tried to bring up some points i think is right, albeit, biased. The problem with speed mods is that there is 3 different factors that can be boosted, internally and externally. Mass: reduced mass get more bonus from speedBoost modules such as MWD and AB. (Nanofiber, Polycarbon Engine Housing) Velocity: increased max velocity has increased max velocity with speedBoost. (overdrive, aux thruster, navigation, gang bonus, snake implants, vagabond's bonus, x-instinct) SpeedBoost Bonus: affecting directly to speedBoost value of the modules. (certain implant, rapid deployment gang link, overheating, acceleration control) utilizing all three of these factors yield the so-called "ludicrous speed" for certain ships with built-in bonus, 4-5 lowslots, and rigs. and because these are three different factors, the penalty of stacking all 3 up practically doesn't exist. that is the core of the problem if you're looking at speedModifier directly. balancing them is one idea, albeit a bad one. here's why: think about it, MWD is used by most if not all ships used in PvP. It is, more often than not, mandatory to fit a MWD on a ship in gang, regardless of what you do in zero. Ask just about any FC worth his salt. Reason: bubble in zero, the need to get close to one another for remote repping, blasterboats need to get in range in order to do damage, ect. Taking that out, the MWD, would literally kill all small gang warfare. it will be ludicrous then to think of guerrillas warfare such as you mention in the blog. Without MWD, zero warfare will change forever, and let me remind you, not in a good way. Let's take a look at Polycarbon Engine Housing Rig. They give -20% bonus to Mass. I don't know the exact figure it give to speedModifier when you turn a MWD on, but it gives a lot. The module version of the Polycarb is the nanofiber, the t2 version of it gives only -12.5% IIRC. that's 7.5% difference between a rig and a module. Let me remind you that there are NO other rig, even T2 variants, have better bonus than the t2 modules version of the same bonus. (if that make any sense) let's take a look at the infamous nanoHAC, the Vagabond. any Vagabond pilot worth his salt will have navigation lvl 5, acceleration control lvl 4 (at least), evasive maneuvering lvl 5, high speed maneuvering lvl 4, capacitor-related skills, and gunnery skills, on top of engineer and other support skills. The Vagabond has 5 lowslots, on top of 2 rig slots. that's give you total of 7 speedModifier source if you're a speed freak, most dont try and crank the best speed out of a ship due to survivability, and damage modifying modules. Yet, it's still be able to outrun most standard fitted ceptors, why? - Built-in 25% max velocity bonus. - 5 low slots - Rigs Arguing that ceptors also have rig slots and 4 lowslots is a true statement, but it's invalid. A ceptor cost 10-15m ISK to buy if you dont produce your own. A polycarb rig costs 36m ISK, more than double, if not triple, the cost of the ship itself. It's the equivalent of fitting TWO 180m rigs on a vagabond. Most sane people dont do that. Only the ones with too much ISK. Snake implants, faction MWD, boosters are rare things. It's rare to see a nanoHAC clocks more than 8km/s without external help. That's perfectly fine with me, who hate nanoHAC with a fiery passion. Changing the factor that isn't the source of the problem will affect other ships, beside the nanoHACs themselves. And that's what we are upset about. also, fix tracking disrupt and remote sensor damp while you're at it. You broke it, now fix it. Bottom line is, If you want to fix something, make _sure_ that you're doing it right. Don't make it worse than it is now. Don't create workload for yourselves. Work smart, dont work hard get nothing done in the process. ---------------------- What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor. Forever Pelennor
Arlenna Molatov Caldari The 59th Parallel	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:49:00 - [1689] Originally by: Stalina Edited by: Stalina on 26/07/2008 09:40:49 Originally by: Drumul Oaselor nanoed ships put the "miss" in missiles Quoting the clueless. If you would have ever flown one, you would now that non-interceptor ships get hit by missiles. It is just...well...the average pilot that uses EM versus minmatar t2 or kinetic versus gallente t2... And if you get killed by a single ishtar you deserve to get killed. \ You good sir- are the clueless. All advanced missles skill @ 4, using t2 precision HVY missles shooting a nanohac....0.1 dmg. Wow..thats some REAL FRICKING BALANCE right there!!!! Yep! We can see you use missles a lot.....
galphi Gallente Unitary Senate Unitary Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:49:00 - [1690] Edited by: galphi on 26/07/2008 09:49:59 This is something I've been thinking about recently, speed needs even more speed to be countered (or a matari recon yawn). But I never thought you'd actually wield the nerf-bat with such accuracy. This is an excellent fix for the speed issue, well done CCP
pardux The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:50:00 - [1691] ohgod finally <3 <3 <3 <3
Desash The Extremely Norty Gankers Union	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:53:00 - [1692] Originally by: Arlenna Molatov Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 26/07/2008 09:29:51 WOW...how the tides have turned!! First its the PVPers whining about the carebears whining so much. And now FATE deals a hand where the roles are reversed...the PVPers whining. Oh...the IRONY! lol Anyways...i'll take another quote that has been stated on these forums directly from the PVPers for the last, nearly 6 years... " if you dont like it, quit!! Can I have ur stuff!!??" ... Would you know how to use a PvP ship if we gave you one ?
Mos7Wan7ed	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:54:00 - [1693] * Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for. Abso freaking lootly! nano HACs fling over 9k M/S can not be hit. even when they do it its for near fractions of maximum damage. * There should be a significant and meaningful difference in speed between the ship classes. Interceptors should be the fastest moving ships in the game. nano hacs are so fast even special tackle recons with specialty bonuses can't tackle HACs on a gate, because it takes less time for the nano hacs to leave the recon range then it takes the recon to lock them. Only option is to risk a similarly or higher skilled pilot in similar nano HAC. * Speed should not permit a larger ship to perform the role that a smaller specialized ship was intended for. Interceptors should be the best ships in the game at tackling at long or short range. ceptors are currently useless compared with nano hacs having them beat in every category. who would use ceptors when you have a faster, higher hp/dps ship with more fitting options for tackle equipment available in the nano HACs? HAC = Heavy Assault Ships (Heavily Tanked cruiser carrying high amounts of DPS (not a cruiser size interceptor fling 9-14k M/S incapable of being caught by anything in the game) Recons don't even have the same freedom of movement through 0.0 as your average nano HAC does. a well placed HIC and a fast interceptor could catch a recon. same situation the nano HAC would pop the interceptor, laugh at the HIC, and fly away.
Arlenna Molatov Caldari The 59th Parallel	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:55:00 - [1694] Originally by: Desash Originally by: Arlenna Molatov Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 26/07/2008 09:29:51 WOW...how the tides have turned!! First its the PVPers whining about the carebears whining so much. And now FATE deals a hand where the roles are reversed...the PVPers whining. Oh...the IRONY! lol Anyways...i'll take another quote that has been stated on these forums directly from the PVPers for the last, nearly 6 years... " if you dont like it, quit!! Can I have ur stuff!!??" ... Would you know how to use a PvP ship if we gave you one ? ...and NO, your e-peen is not bigger so dont even try. and on a related note, i'm not the one whining up a storm
Linistitul	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:56:00 - [1695] Originally by: CCP Nozh On the other hand, if you fit a warp scrambler and stasis webifier, the overall speed reduction is much greater than 90%. That is, if your target is using a MWD not an afterburner. But this is something we'll be keeping a close eye on. Interesting changes and waiting to test them on Sissi Still, i'm curious what will happen when i will fly my Deimos. Will I be able to catch a cruiser or somethig similar? Or only BS's and up? Or will the Deimos become just a suicide ship? Also i believe that blasters should be looked upon. Especially @ tracking and damage. They are crap compared to other turrets. My main char flies gallente blaser do or die ships and i don't want them to become die or die ships.
Soyemia Minmatar Art of War	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:58:00 - [1696] Originally by: Linistitul Originally by: CCP Nozh On the other hand, if you fit a warp scrambler and stasis webifier, the overall speed reduction is much greater than 90%. That is, if your target is using a MWD not an afterburner. But this is something we'll be keeping a close eye on. Interesting changes and waiting to test them on Sissi Still, i'm curious what will happen when i will fly my Deimos. Will I be able to catch a cruiser or somethig similar? Or only BS's and up? Or will the Deimos become just a suicide ship? Also i believe that blasters should be looked upon. Especially @ tracking and damage. They are crap compared to other turrets. My main char flies gallente blaser do or die ships and i don't want them to become die or die ships. Minmatar do less DPS and track worse Official BoB fanboy. Called Stabemia. Corp hopper.
Damion Zyne Des Esseintes Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:59:00 - [1697] Originally by: Arlenna Molatov Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 26/07/2008 09:29:51 WOW...how the tides have turned!! First its the PVPers whining about the carebears whining so much. And now FATE deals a hand where the roles are reversed...the PVPers whining. Oh...the IRONY! lol Anyways...i'll take another quote that has been stated on these forums directly from the PVPers for the last, nearly 6 years... " if you dont like it, quit!! Can I have ur stuff!!??" So, moral of the story...dont like the nerf? Then fuking quit and go play WOW. If your assumption is true (PvPers vs carebears), plz tell me why a PvP aspect of the game should be balanced around carebear needs ?
WeightedCompanionCube Aperture Science Enrichment Center	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:05:00 - [1698] Originally by: Damion Zyne If your assumption is true (PvPers vs carebears), plz tell me why a PvP aspect of the game should be balanced around carebear needs ? Because they are the majority of subscription-paying customers ?
Kalintos Tyl	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:08:00 - [1699] When drake narf? It can passive tank like hyperion with 2 lar ><
Lee ChanKa Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:09:00 - [1700] Originally by: Arlenna Molatov Originally by: Stalina Edited by: Stalina on 26/07/2008 09:40:49 Originally by: Drumul Oaselor nanoed ships put the "miss" in missiles Quoting the clueless. If you would have ever flown one, you would now that non-interceptor ships get hit by missiles. It is just...well...the average pilot that uses EM versus minmatar t2 or kinetic versus gallente t2... And if you get killed by a single ishtar you deserve to get killed. \ You good sir- are the clueless. All advanced missles skill @ 4, using t2 precision HVY missles shooting a nanohac....0.1 dmg. Wow..thats some REAL FRICKING BALANCE right there!!!! Yep! We can see you use missles a lot..... no you are noob and problem is thet CCP turning 2 help nobs because like 75% of you making game..i say in before post contact me in game and i will giwe you link wher with drake i kill 2-3-4 hacs solo... BUT YOU WISH 2 STAND IN 1 PLACE AND 2 MAKE KILLS PRESING F1F2F3F4 so ccp MUST PULL DOWN GAME ON ******ED LEVEL so all of you who push this thing be happy on belts and when ceo call you 2 take fleet bs and 2 lisent targets because you canT go out alone or with friend 2 gank targets BECAUSE THET IS SO HAAAAAAAAAARD
Drumul Oaselor	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:12:00 - [1701] Edited by: Drumul Oaselor on 26/07/2008 10:13:40 Originally by: Damion Zyne If your assumption is true (PvPers vs carebears), plz tell me why a PvP aspect of the game should be balanced around carebear needs ? what exactly are "carebear needs" ? a game in which no single strategy can defeat all the others ?
Pimp Mustafa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:12:00 - [1702] Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube Originally by: Damion Zyne If your assumption is true (PvPers vs carebears), plz tell me why a PvP aspect of the game should be balanced around carebear needs ? Because they are the majority of subscription-paying customers ? that would be the macro's and them iskfarmer's we have doing the logoffski then the nano gang kill's em ya know ccp dont like that
Dzajic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:15:00 - [1703] FFS! I imagine the nano brigade would still whine like this even if CCP just added polycarb stacking penalties and reworked ship base speeds and left everything else alone. Folks, CCP wants to change the basic way webs, mwds and scrambs work, that has been such for ages. Forget the nanogangs, they will frack up everything. I personally think that pimped out Vaga should break 5k without implants (speed IS the Minmatar thing), but that other HACs that are tank based should find it difficult to break 3k.
Demus DaVet	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:15:00 - [1704] Originally by: Arlenna Molatov You good sir- are the clueless. All advanced missles skill @ 4, using t2 precision HVY missles shooting a nanohac....0.1 dmg. Wow..thats some REAL FRICKING BALANCE right there!!!! Yep! We can see you use missles a lot..... Would you care to comment on how much damage said nano hac was delivering on your ship ? And while we're at it, please tell us what was the cost of your ship/implants against his/hers. Won't even go in to the SP needed to fly your setup against his/hers. Hoping to kill a 250m Vaga with a pilot with 1bil worth of implants in a 100m Cerb/Drake is kinda silly isn't ? Get a grip, that's all I am saying.
Ninsoku	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:17:00 - [1705] Originally by: Yukisa You devs need to ask yourself a vital question and come to understand the game before you try to balance it... 1. What was the intention of the MWD as a module when it was designed and implemented? Was it intended to be a module to quickly close the gap for short range ships, a quick short burst to escape or rather a constant super high speed as it turned to be? Looking back at the implementation it suggested that the MWD was designed primarily for short burst of high speed as it was never meant to be sustainable. However, it didn't work out this way.. When it became sustainable it obsoleted AB. Thats when game balance went downhill and you guys failed to see it coming, especially when snake implants, command ship mods that boost speed, and even boosters were added in patches. This irritated many when CCP acknowledge ships flew too fast then added poly rigs... Now let us go back to the original design concept of MWD. Instead of changing all the multitude of factors that now make it stupidly out of balance, simply go back and make MWD work in short bursts of speed, not sustained. i.e. Low duration, long reactivation. Then buff afterburners. They were always too slow. The changes suggested will hurt AB as well as speed is much less with MWD or AB. A major problem for small ships is their extreme weakness vs light/heavy missiles and scout drones. It's either a hit or miss affair, you either go fast and evade it, or you die. Light missiles rarely occur on big targets so it isn't as big a concern, but almost all big ships have room for light drones. This makes them too effective as an anti-light platform when their role is to be anti-heavy. Think about this point over and you will understand there are many more changes required if you truly want to rebalance speed in Eve. A few suggestions: 1. MWD returned to its short burst-high-speed usage. 10s duration, 60s re-activation timer. 2. AB speed is increased. The % increase can be tested to get the right amount. Basically the AB is the module of choice for dog fights while the MWD is for those wanting gap closing bursts or quick evasion, not constant evasion. 3. Lower sig radius of small ships so they can avoid some drone fire and lower light missile explosion velocity. (Speed and size is a defense, not a do or die mechanism with a threshold one can exceed to be invulnerable) This is the greatest post ever. CCP, you need to nerf the MWD module not everything else under the sun.
Mos7Wan7ed	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:18:00 - [1706] thanks for forcing all HAC pilot to think about using Gasp an armor tank rather then a speed tank!! Using low slots for cramming speed mods in a heavy assault ship and by-passing the stacking penalties is not how the HACs were intended to be used in the first place. Just get over the idea they are nerfing anything other then a nich in the game that was exploited by players in a way CCP never intended.
Xyleya moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:20:00 - [1707] I'll refrain from commenting any longer, but every 10 pages or so, I'll throw in a little mathematics regarding the proposed changes and new numbers: Vagabond (basespeed): 302.5 m/sec Navigation LvL 5: +25% = 378.125 m/sec Rogue CY-1 (+3% speed): 398.46875 m/sec 1st Overdrive: +12.5 % = 448.27 m/sec 2nd Overdrive: +10.875 % = 497 m/sec 3rd Overdrive: +7.125 % = 532.5 m/sec 10MN MWD II: 500% Acceleration Control LvL 5: + 25% = 625% Rogue MY-1: + 3% = 643.75% Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink: +5% = 675.93% Result = 532.5 m/sec + 675.93% = 4131.82 m/sec (overheated = 5931.4 m/sec) With Skirmish Warfare LvL 5: 4545 m/sec (overheated = 6524.64 m/sec) With Claymore and Gang-Links: 5197.8 m/sec (overheated = 7461.8 m/sec) With HG Snakes: 5152.3 m/sec (overheated = 7396.5 m/sec) With Claymore and HG Snakes: 6481.7 m/sec(overheated = 9304.9 m/sec) .
Haakelen Gallente Genesis Rising	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:20:00 - [1708] Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed thanks for forcing all HAC pilot to think about using Gasp an armor tank rather then a speed tank!! You'd have to be an idiot to fly a HAC after this. In every situation the tier 2 BC is better. From your posting you come across as pretty ****ing stupid however so I'm sure you'll do it.
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:21:00 - [1709] Originally by: Sid Zero I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the following issue: from the graphs it is clear that Assault Frigs are getting a MWD speed boost - how is this speed boost effected? Higher base speed, lower mass, or higher MWD multiplier? Sid Somebody? Anybody?
Drumul Oaselor	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:23:00 - [1710] Originally by: Demus DaVet Get a grip, that's all I am saying. how would you feel if your most accurate weapons hit for 3 damage every shot (even though they are the correct type) just because the game lets ships fly at imbalanced speeds ? no wonder caldari are considered the pve race, not any more after this patch

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