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Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Vaal Erit Insurance is for everyone and I can do anything, that's called sandbox gameplay that is advertised by CCP. I understand that a sandbox has rules, but insurance is one of those very basic rules that applies to everyone evenly. Translation: "I want to ruin someone else's day but don't want my day ruined in the process! Wahhhh!" -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:51:00 - [32] I'm all for suicide ganking and all, but the level its being done in empire is beyond sanity. I mean, I'm shuffling some named T1 to near Jita to sell, and two frigates attempt to suicide my T2-tanked indy, in 1.0 Naturally, all they caused was lag, and my shields to regenerate. After I dropped of my load and headed back, the same two came in cruisers now. Still fail. Okay, if idiots like this are suicide ganking and failing, spawning more CONCORD, and causing lag, do we really want this to continue? We all know we dont like lag. Serious suicide gankers wont be deterred much by these changes, but idiots like Mickey and Moe here I'm talking about should find it much harder to "make a living". -
Bai ZongTong The Revolutionary Guard	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:54:00 - [33] gotta start suicide ganking soon before the nerfs... --- Want some YARRHHHS? The Revolutionary Guard Pirate Corp Looking for Members Uncensored KB
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:55:00 - [34] Well, this is what whining leads to. CCP actually listens, so keep it up and we'll soon have a wow in space but run by SOE (I remember someone who said that'd be better). There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:56:00 - [35] Edited by: Gaia Thorn on 06/08/2008 06:58:21 Originally by: Divad Ginleek Raven: 70-75ish mil to build, 32 mil to insure, around a mil to fit for torpedo gank (t1 siege launchers and BCUs)= 103-107 mil. platinum insurance payout: 108 mil net loss/gain for suicide ganker: 1 mil + phat lootz. unbalanced game mechanic: Priceless. i don't understand why so-called "hardcore PVPers" whine so much when an obvious error in game design is fixed. could it be that the ones crying loudest are the true carebears watching their isk faucet being repaired and yelling about it and throwing a fit like little babies? get out there and work for your isk like the rest of EVE and maybe more people would sympathize when your profession gets "nerfed" (read: fixed). i think the security penalty changes will make more of an underworld culture and bring pirate organizations closer together (as well as open up more trade opportunities in lowsec, thereby providing targets for the pvpers). who knows, just let the change come, try it out, and if it is obviously overdone, they will change it to make it more balanced. to me it sounds like a redirection of the game to bring it more in line with what highsec and lowsec should mean. highsec has never been safe for the carebear, now its just as risky for the sharks as well. I dont Whine because i cant suicide gank. I whine cause CCP is turning this game to shit cause they promote it as a sandbox but every patch that comes out the remove a fair bit of that sand from our box.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.06 06:59:00 - [36] Originally by: Gaia Thorn Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes It hasn't made the carebears safe, just safer. Now all they need to do, is limit the freedom in starter corporations and it's a great change. Well why would you need to be safer ? Why is it always the pvp'ers way of life getting nerfed whilst the carebears roam around free with no need for adaptation ? Why do the idiots need protection from the smarter in a game that is suppose to be a unforgiving harsh enviroment ? Because there's more of us. CCP are running a business and they cannot afford Eve to be too harsh. There aren't enough blood-thirsty weirdos in the gaming community to keep such a thing going. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:04:00 - [37] I dont know if faster concord response really is needed, and i dont know if concord response is faster since the battleship will take longer to lock. But removing insurance is exactly what needed to be done. You can still shoot anyone for profit, when he has enough valuable stuff in his cargohold. Sure your profit is lower, but you get over it. However it should stop the random ganking of industrials without even scanning what they got in their cargohold. It is even profitable to gank an industrial filled with homeless...
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:05:00 - [38] I don't see a huge change here so far, but the insurance issue does need looking into. So long as suicide ganks don't stop, just a bit more cost/reward balance is needed. It looks like it will still be easy to rat back up again, they didn't say anything about how that was going to change. I'll trade you tho, campaign to get rid of respawing neut towers in lvl 5 missions and I'll come into lowsec more often for you to try to gank....
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:06:00 - [39] the one thing about this game was the options i had i felt i could do whatever i wanted. That choice is rapidly being removed by CCP
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:11:00 - [40] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Gaia Thorn Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes It hasn't made the carebears safe, just safer. Now all they need to do, is limit the freedom in starter corporations and it's a great change. Well why would you need to be safer ? Why is it always the pvp'ers way of life getting nerfed whilst the carebears roam around free with no need for adaptation ? Why do the idiots need protection from the smarter in a game that is suppose to be a unforgiving harsh enviroment ? Because there's more of us. CCP are running a business and they cannot afford Eve to be too harsh. There aren't enough blood-thirsty weirdos in the gaming community to keep such a thing going. The logical conclusion of this line of argument is a completely PvE orientated game with no place at all for the "bloodthirsty wierdos". Thanks for taking the only game we have. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Trebor Locke Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Gaia Thorn the one thing about this game was the options i had i felt i could do whatever i wanted. That choice is rapidly being removed by CCP Suicide gankers currently are the best match to the word carebear more than any other kind of person. Industrialists have had to adapt in many ways where 'fake pvpers' (such as yourself) havent had to adapt. In truth, there is no real adapting to random suicide ganking of Industrial Ships. Well, unless you want to afford a nice shiny transport ship (which requires specialized skills that are extremely hard for newer players to obtain. even older players for that matter. About 1-2months of training to "Adapt"). I'm very glad these changes are happening as they are much needed. Especially with the insurance. Also, I have lived out in 0.0 for quite a while. Ganking is not PVP. It's a massacre. Player vs. Players assumes your target can fight back :) -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate Your friendly economic management and trade orginization.
Kyle Klanen	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:16:00 - [42] EVEs been on the road to WoW in space slowly but steadily, Empyrean ages was a major step introducing battlegrounds, RvR and CTFs and if you read the CSM minutes there was discussion about war decs being a "pay to grief" system and they are looking into changes. It is quite obvious how its panning out, 0.0 is the pvp server and high sec a lot safer with some kind of a flagging system based around mutual wardecs and low sec will be for the battleground RvR factional warfare all with the end result that people who "choose" to pvp can do so but unconsensual pvp will be made difficult maybe even impossible eventually.
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Gaia Thorn Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes It hasn't made the carebears safe, just safer. Now all they need to do, is limit the freedom in starter corporations and it's a great change. Well why would you need to be safer ? Why is it always the pvp'ers way of life getting nerfed whilst the carebears roam around free with no need for adaptation ? Why do the idiots need protection from the smarter in a game that is suppose to be a unforgiving harsh enviroment ? Because there's more of us. CCP are running a business and they cannot afford Eve to be too harsh. There aren't enough blood-thirsty weirdos in the gaming community to keep such a thing going. One thing. who is gonna buy youre ships ? since the carebears sledom lose ships in missions and if they do build a new one from the salvage and recycling of mods ?
Trebor Locke Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Gaia Thorn One thing. who is gonna buy youre ships ? since the carebears sledom lose ships in missions and if they do build a new one from the salvage and recycling of mods ? Simple, the rest of the EVE universe. All those orginizations called 'Alliances.' They tend to buy em in bulk during war time :) -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate Your friendly economic management and trade orginization.
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:21:00 - [45] Originally by: Trebor Locke Originally by: Gaia Thorn the one thing about this game was the options i had i felt i could do whatever i wanted. That choice is rapidly being removed by CCP Suicide gankers currently are the best match to the word carebear more than any other kind of person. Industrialists have had to adapt in many ways where 'fake pvpers' (such as yourself) havent had to adapt. In truth, there is no real adapting to random suicide ganking of Industrial Ships. Well, unless you want to afford a nice shiny transport ship (which requires specialized skills that are extremely hard for newer players to obtain. even older players for that matter. About 1-2months of training to "Adapt"). I'm very glad these changes are happening as they are much needed. Especially with the insurance. Also, I have lived out in 0.0 for quite a while. Ganking is not PVP. It's a massacre. Player vs. Players assumes your target can fight back :) Sigh waiting for the infamous "real men pvp in 0.0". pvp = player versus player meaning if you are in your hauler and im in my titan its still pvp. As for calling me a fake pvper i dont suicide gank as i stated before and ive been killing people before you where a twinkle in your mothers eye.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:22:00 - [46] Incidentally, this is a bad change for all you miners and traders who actually play the game. Your AFKing, macroing competition just got a big boost. Enjoy your reduced profit margins. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:23:00 - [47] Originally by: Trebor Locke Originally by: Gaia Thorn One thing. who is gonna buy youre ships ? since the carebears sledom lose ships in missions and if they do build a new one from the salvage and recycling of mods ? Simple, the rest of the EVE universe. All those orginizations called 'Alliances.' They tend to buy em in bulk during war time :) so the industrialists in 0.0 are there for there own profit ? the ones buying ships in empire and take em to 0.0 is my alt selling em for stupid profit since there is no money in pvping anymore.
Trebor Locke Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Malcanis Incidentally, this is a bad change for all you miners and traders who actually play the game. Your AFKing, macroing competition just got a big boost. Enjoy your reduced profit margins. That is actually a false statement. Traders wont see any real change in profit margins. A change in the amount of isk being moved yes, but not in the profit margin as that will stay steady given market forces (ECON 104 Macro-economics). All will remain normal even as gankers get their nerf as the change in price will reflect changes in opportunity cost and risk. -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate Your friendly economic management and trade orginization.
Trebor Locke Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:28:00 - [49] Edited by: Trebor Locke on 06/08/2008 07:28:48 Originally by: Gaia Thorn the ones buying ships in empire and take em to 0.0 is my alt selling em for stupid profit since there is no money in pvping anymore. Exactly like real life. It's always been the manufacturers and suppliers that make profit from war and will remain that way in any free-market economic model. -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate Your friendly economic management and trade orginization.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:28:00 - [50] Originally by: Trebor Locke Originally by: Gaia Thorn the one thing about this game was the options i had i felt i could do whatever i wanted. That choice is rapidly being removed by CCP Suicide gankers currently are the best match to the word carebear more than any other kind of person. Industrialists have had to adapt in many ways where 'fake pvpers' (such as yourself) havent had to adapt. In truth, there is no real adapting to random suicide ganking of Industrial Ships. Well, unless you want to afford a nice shiny transport ship (which requires specialized skills that are extremely hard for newer players to obtain. even older players for that matter. About 1-2months of training to "Adapt"). I'm very glad these changes are happening as they are much needed. Especially with the insurance. Also, I have lived out in 0.0 for quite a while. Ganking is not PVP. It's a massacre. Player vs. Players assumes your target can fight back :) This post is hilarious. The vast majority of suicide gankers are 0.0 players doing it to make isk. The vast majority routinely pvp in 0.0/lowsec, the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity. You have zero kills on battleclinic, all you have is a long string of losses. You wouldn't know pvp if it came up to you and smacked you in the face. So stop pretending you know anything about it, you don't. If you can afford to be carrying hundreds of millions of isk worth of cargo, you can afford to spend a month to train for a transport ship. Newer players do not have hundreds of millions of isk worth of cargo, its only the old, lazy, stupid players that get ganked. Suicide ganking is good for eve, because it removes those players, social darwinism at work, the fat the stupid die, the smart ones live and get rich. As for the OP, im skeptical till I see the actual changes, if ccp is smart the new concord despite responding sooner will not insta **** you in 1 second like they do now, which might be a good change. Alternatively, ccp needs to reform the wardec system to remove NPC corp protection(and force people out of newbie corps after say 6 months) and deal with corp hopping to avoid wardecs.

Vikarion Caldari Onyx Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:28:00 - [51] I wanted suicide ganking to be made more difficult (I suicide gank, BTW), but not this much more difficult. This is really ham-fisted, CCP. Hi-sec should not be safe, only safer. These changes would make all but the most expensive loot not worth ganking. Next I suppose war-decs will be done away with, or some other stupid crap like that. -------- Where I got my great sig...
Volarius D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:29:00 - [52] The cool kids live in 0.0 and lowsec anyways. At least with these changes we'll have less bear whining.
Plave Okice Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:29:00 - [53] All people need to do to avoid 95% of suicide ganks is not autopilot. CCP catering for the completely **ing stupid and ***ed. Nothing needs changing with these mechanics, force people to play* not AFK. Would you like to know more?
Xevan Templar 7th Batavian Squadron	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:34:00 - [54] If I read this correctly, suicide ganking is still possible , it's just that CONCORD will arrive abit faster. Besides that you don't get your insurance back, which actualy makes sense. So it will get abit thougher but not impossible. And to come back to the OP's original line, there is a huge place called 0.0 yes? I don't see 'carebears' taking over 0.0 anytime soon. Just take it like a man for once.
Trebor Locke Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:38:00 - [55] Edited by: Trebor Locke on 06/08/2008 07:39:49 Originally by: Gamesguy This post is hilarious. The vast majority of suicide gankers are 0.0 players doing it to make isk. The vast majority routinely pvp in 0.0/lowsec, the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity. You have zero kills on battleclinic, all you have is a long string of losses. You wouldn't know pvp if it came up to you and smacked you in the face. So stop pretending you know anything about it, you don't. If you can afford to be carrying hundreds of millions of isk worth of cargo, you can afford to spend a month to train for a transport ship. Newer players do not have hundreds of millions of isk worth of cargo, its only the old, lazy, stupid players that get ganked. Suicide ganking is good for eve, because it removes those players, social darwinism at work, the fat the stupid die, the smart ones live and get rich. As for the OP, im skeptical till I see the actual changes, if ccp is smart the new concord despite responding sooner will not insta **** you in 1 second like they do now, which might be a good change. Alternatively, ccp needs to reform the wardec system to remove NPC corp protection(and force people out of newbie corps after say 6 months) and deal with corp hopping to avoid wardecs. Who cares about kills on battleclinic? I've always been a logician and have managed tactical and economic structures. It takes money to PVP after all and what better way to fund it than with someone who knows how to make money and how to cut off anothers trade? This game is 80% about economics and 20% about what you actually do with the equipment. Also, Battleclinic has a VERY old record of me [which I do prefer] and doesn't even include several killmails (both kills and losses) that I have been recorded in. -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate Your friendly economic management and trade orginization.
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:43:00 - [56] Originally by: Trebor Locke Edited by: Trebor Locke on 06/08/2008 07:39:49 Who cares about kills on battleclinic? I've always been a logician and have managed tactical and economic structures. It takes money to PVP after all and what better way to fund it than with someone who knows how to make money and how to cut off anothers trade? This game is 80% about economics and 20% about what you actually do with the equipment. Also, Battleclinic has a VERY old record of me [which I do prefer] and doesn't even include several killmails (both kills and losses) that I have been recorded in. Who cares ? Pvper's care, and according to youreself u havent pvped then. As i thought.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:53:00 - [57] EVE is suppose to be risk vs reward. Currently their is little to no risk for the pirates/gankers in hi sec. They get more than their ship back in insurance. This helps level the playing field. You can still gank in hi sec. If your doing it for fun you can blow up anything, just be out what you spent on it. If your trying to be a pirate, then you need to make sure its worth it as a target. (Use a Cargo Scanner, and a Ship Scanner...) Below .5 the change in insurance will not affect anything. The sec hits as described make more sense.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:54:00 - [58] Originally by: Caldreean I have no issue with the concept of suicide ganking. But it shouldn't be as easy as it is now. This tries to address that, and that's fine with me. And all you people spazzing out about the loss of insurance, boo hoo. Ganker tears are delicious! If you want to waste your ship ganking, party on, but let's be real here. With how easy it is to recycle alts (regardless of CCPs stance against it) or work standing back up, there needs to be some price to pay. And this is it. Deal Recycling alts is an exploit, if you think someone is doing this you can petition to get them banned. So thats not an argument. Funny how all the carebears are saying "adapt or die!" when a week ago they were the ones who've been failing to adapt and whining for the past...two years?
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:55:00 - [59] Originally by: El'Niaga EVE is suppose to be risk vs reward. Currently their is little to no risk for the pirates/gankers in hi sec. They get more than their ship back in insurance. This helps level the playing field. You can still gank in hi sec. If your doing it for fun you can blow up anything, just be out what you spent on it. If your trying to be a pirate, then you need to make sure its worth it as a target. (Use a Cargo Scanner, and a Ship Scanner...) Below .5 the change in insurance will not affect anything. The sec hits as described make more sense. Where is the risk for the npc corp level 4 mission runner in a CNR? When there is risk for him I would gladly support a nerf to suicide gankers. Increasing risk is not nerfing the reward, increasing risk is implementing things like tradable killrights and fixing the bounty system. This is just a plain nerf.
THEGREAT LOBO Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.08.06 07:57:00 - [60] Just another step towards making eve a bland and boring place. CCP- GIVING IN, ONE ALT WHINE AT A TIME.



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