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Sorted Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:35:00 - [241] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Sorted is this your main copasetic sideways.. is it? did you press the wrong button? SWEEEET. I've never used forum alts, outside the trade forums that is. At a glance, I think I support the cheerful posting copasetic is doing though. squirm....you little bastard Vote against the nano nerf! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832371
Kerfira	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:36:00 - [242] Originally by: Lt Angus ... Even using the cheat it takes over 12 hours Wow!!! A WHOLE 12 HOURS!!!! Let's see.... How long do you think it took the person you ganked saving up the ISK for his cargo and ship??? You sense of perspective is seriously imbalanced towards: "ME, ME, ME, ME!!!". These are in fact quite reasonable changes. Suicide ganking of high-value targets are essentially not touched, and all the insurance removal does is raise the bar for what is profitable. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:36:00 - [243] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: hedfunk Originally by: Neesa Corrinne This doesn't change squat, and it hardly spells doom for EVE. Even -10.0 sec status individuals can simply go rat in 0.0 for a few hours and be back to positive standings. Yes, because you can rat from -10 back up to -1.9 in 'a few hours'. Yes, you can. I've done it many times. please enlighten me how you manage to do this in a few hours ?
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:36:00 - [244] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Quite a few different things have led to the current situation. For one, mineral prices have fallen significantly from the original 'base' levels on which insurance payouts are still based. QFT And CCP attacks the symptoms. \o/ Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:37:00 - [245] Originally by: Gaia Thorn Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: hedfunk Originally by: Neesa Corrinne This doesn't change squat, and it hardly spells doom for EVE. Even -10.0 sec status individuals can simply go rat in 0.0 for a few hours and be back to positive standings. Yes, because you can rat from -10 back up to -1.9 in 'a few hours'. Yes, you can. I've done it many times. please enlighten me how you manage to do this in a few hours ? he is talking about the jumping system and and taggin trick, its still longer than a few hours. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Gealbhan Caldari Infernal Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:38:00 - [246] You can persecute us, nerf our standings, buff your concord and remove insurance for concord related deaths but you will NEVER, EVER stop us! Pirates will Always be a part of Eve in every system from 0.0 to 1.0! Yarrr with me brothers!!!! P.S. This will increase war dec's on small empire corps 10x and turn empire into a warred out wasteland.
copasetic sideways	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:39:00 - [247] Originally by: Sorted squirm....you little bastard but mizyur! wiv zeez rochay you are rrrrreally schpoilink uz!
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:39:00 - [248] Because introducing hics really wasnt a boost for the gankers (no not for suicide gankers but you arent that important). Really only boosts for the evil carebears...
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:40:00 - [249] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 06/08/2008 12:36:57 Originally by: Lt Angus ... Even using the cheat it takes over 12 hours Wow!!! A WHOLE 12 HOURS!!!! Let's see.... How long do you think it took the person you ganked saving up the ISK for his cargo and ship??? You sense of perspective is seriously imbalanced towards: "ME, ME, ME, ME!!!". These are in fact quite reasonable changes. Suicide ganking of high-value targets is essentially not touched, and all the insurance removal does is raise the bar for what is profitable a little bit. If it took him more then 12 hours then he should try something more profitable, maybe suicide ganking Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Neesa Corrinne Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:40:00 - [250] It's extremely easy. You kill a battleship, jump to the next system and kill a battleship, jump back to the first system and kill a battleship. The timer between kills resets every time you change system. L2P before telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about pls. kthx bai.

Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:41:00 - [251] Originally by: Exlegion Eve is a game for everyone, including the casual players that don't want to overly trouble themselves with details of precaution. Keep in mind there will still be risk for these players, but not as bad as in say, the lower levels of high security space and low security altogether. It's a small step from here to removing risk for these kinds of players altogether. - DesuSigs
copasetic sideways	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:43:00 - [252] Originally by: Crumplecorn It's a small step from here to removing risk for these kinds of players altogether. EVE IS DYING!
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:43:00 - [253] Edited by: Lt Angus on 06/08/2008 12:45:04 Originally by: Neesa Corrinne It's extremely easy. You kill a battleship, jump to the next system and kill a battleship, jump back to the first system and kill a battleship. The timer between kills resets every time you change system. L2P before telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about pls. kthx bai. wrong it doesn't reset, its a per system timer, so u can only do 1 every 8 mins with that, u need atleast a 4 system loop for the trick and even then it takes a long time Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:44:00 - [254] Originally by: Gealbhan This will increase war dec's on small empire corps 10x and turn empire into a warred out wasteland. The true test of whether or not CCP is really watering down the game might be seen in the following scenario: 1. Increase in empire war occurs 2. Massive whinefest and corp hopping over this occurs by people who didn't realize that wars are a part of the game 3a. CCP nerfs wars 3b. CCP nerfs corp-hopping (3b. is the correct answer, CCP)
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:45:00 - [255] Originally by: Sorted squirm....you little bastard Haha, I thought I had made enough 'griefers are teh suck' and 'suicide ganking is broken' (which it is until insurance is changed) posts on my own to become a target many times over, but judging from your and Ki's reaction to copasetics posts I have not had enough attitude in my writing. Kept it too factual and on topic apparently .
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:45:00 - [256] Originally by: copasetic sideways Originally by: Tippia So you're saying that the majority is in NPC corps? Do you have any numbers to back this up? heh heh - crackaddictlogic is not logic... Maybe you should stop smoking then. It's very simple. Hungo claims that there is no reason why his stuff should be blown up. I claim that that's the whole point of the game. You interject that the majority wants protection from suicide ganking. The problem with your argument is that removing/reducing suicide ganking won't keep your stuff from being blown up unless you're in an NPC corp. If you're arguing my point (and it looks like you were since you quoted my post), then you're implicitly saying that the majority is in NPC corps – if not, then this change will mean fsck-all for the survivability of their stuff. So my question back to you was: are you sure that the majority will actually benefit from this change, seeing as how they'll need to be NPC-corpers to do so? Clear enough?
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:45:00 - [257] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne It's extremely easy. You kill a battleship, jump to the next system and kill a battleship, jump back to the first system and kill a battleship. The timer between kills resets every time you change system. L2P before telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about pls. kthx bai. thought it still took 15 per system atleast thats what my security log showed when i took my sec down for the forth time.
Neesa Corrinne Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:46:00 - [258] Originally by: Lt Angus Edited by: Lt Angus on 06/08/2008 12:45:04 Originally by: Neesa Corrinne It's extremely easy. You kill a battleship, jump to the next system and kill a battleship, jump back to the first system and kill a battleship. The timer between kills resets every time you change system. L2P before telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about pls. kthx bai. wrong it doesn't reset, its a per system timer, so u can only do 1 every 8 mins with that, u need atleast a 4 system loop for the trick and even then it takes a long time You weren't supposed to tell everyone exactly how it works genius.
Neesa Corrinne Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:49:00 - [259] All this really does is put more "er" in safer. Empire space should never be completely safe, otherwise there's no point in ever leaving empire space unless you want to pretend like you're having fun sieging POS's every day.
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:50:00 - [260] Edited by: NeoTheo on 06/08/2008 12:52:38 Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: Lt Angus Edited by: Lt Angus on 06/08/2008 12:45:04 Originally by: Neesa Corrinne It's extremely easy. You kill a battleship, jump to the next system and kill a battleship, jump back to the first system and kill a battleship. The timer between kills resets every time you change system. L2P before telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about pls. kthx bai. wrong it doesn't reset, its a per system timer, so u can only do 1 every 8 mins with that, u need atleast a 4 system loop for the trick and even then it takes a long time You weren't supposed to tell everyone exactly how it works genius. i think the point being Nessa that even doing this, its still a sh1t site longer than "a couple of hours" to get from 9.9 to decent security status. also not everyone has access to 0.0 in a ship that can do over battleships, yher i could be come a corp hopper but they are frowned upon as well aint they ? personally, i am all for making suicide ganking harder, but i dont support the mechanism they have chosen. same way i was supporting the nano nerf untill i tried it on sisi and it turned out to be overkill. its the methods i dislike not the reasons. and by the way, good skills on avoiding my flame bait; you are a bigger person than i. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage

Pindleskin Amarr Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:50:00 - [261] Originally by: hedfunk Originally by: Neesa Corrinne This doesn't change squat, and it hardly spells doom for EVE. Even -10.0 sec status individuals can simply go rat in 0.0 for a few hours and be back to positive standings. Yes, because you can rat from -10 back up to -1.9 in 'a few hours'. A few hours, total horse crap... even if you pick your 10 systems that are being Ratted, warp to, land a hit, warp to next system, hit rat, etc etc its still gonna take you some time, i know i have done it! Even if you have friends at a belt in each system ratting and holding kills for you. You still neeed a very helpful alliance, good rats, and safe space. This game used to be a challange, its now going the way or WoW, soon you will get your ship and all ya stuff back on death.. cause its fair that way. WTF RAGH Rant etc etc Amoros P.S. Boost amarr :) ----this----
Zaknussem Caldari The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:51:00 - [262] It figures. CCP does something to correct a problem in their game, and people whine about it on the forums. I can't wait for the Infiniband upgrade to roll round just to see what types of whines will come up then. For the people saying "EvE is a sandbox game" and, in this particular case, the OP's words: Originally by: Gaia Thorn I whine cause CCP is turning this game to shit cause they promote it as a sandbox but every patch that comes out the remove a fair bit of that sand from our box. I have a few points for you. # This isn't your sandbox. This isn't your sand. You're allowed to use them, but you don't own them. If/when the owners of said box and sand decide to change something, your only choices are to keep playing in it or leave. # Remember the sandbox you used to play in when you were young? Go out and find it. Chances are good you won't find it. Why? Because sandboxes are dying out. Because they're being abused. They're being used as toilets and trashbins by people that take the "Do whatever you want" idea for granted. (Note that in this case it doesn't matter if you clean up the box and/or replace all the sand in the box, these same people will just come back and do the exact same thing, simply because it's there.) # Assuming you find your old sandbox, do you expect it to be unchanged? To have the same exact same (amount of) sand that you used to play in, or even the same type of sand? To still have the original paint, or the original sandbox walls? Even sandboxes change in 5 years, whether you want them to or not. # The carebears took over EvE a long time ago. Or haven't you looked at the ratio of players in Hi-Sec vs Lo- and/or No-Sec? Or is that the topic of your next whine? Or maybe you've already whined about that fact? Now on to another thing. While reading this thread, especially the part about NPC corps, an idea came up. Granted, this idea isn't as hot since I read Tippia's answers (which are very good points in that argument, may I add) but the idea is this: Many skills cannot be trained on trial accounts to prevent exploits, but what about preventing some skills from being trained while the player is in an NPC corp? What would be the good/bad points of this idea?
Nogap toosmall	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:52:00 - [263] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: copasetic sideways Originally by: Tippia So you're saying that the majority is in NPC corps? Do you have any numbers to back this up? heh heh - crackaddictlogic is not logic... Maybe you should stop smoking then. It's very simple. Hungo claims that there is no reason why his stuff should be blown up. I claim that that's the whole point of the game. You interject that the majority wants protection from suicide ganking. The problem with your argument is that removing/reducing suicide ganking won't keep your stuff from being blown up unless you're in an NPC corp. If you're arguing my point (and it looks like you were since you quoted my post), then you're implicitly saying that the majority is in NPC corps û if not, then this change will mean fsck-all for the survivability of their stuff. So my question back to you was: are you sure that the majority will actually benefit from this change, seeing as how they'll need to be NPC-corpers to do so? Clear enough? I think the fact that CCP are seen "to be doing something" about suiciders will be enough to placate the "nerf suiciders" gang. Fact of the matter is that its stupidly cheap to perform a suicide (both in isk and sec hit terms) All this change does is move the goalposts a little against the gankers. Can you still suicide - yes Can you still make a LOT of isk from idiot haulers - yes Have said haulers whines been answered to some extent - yes Where is the lose?
Gaia Thorn Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:58:00 - [264] Edited by: Gaia Thorn on 06/08/2008 13:00:09 Originally by: Zaknussem It figures. CCP does something to correct a problem in their game, and people whine about it on the forums. I can't wait for the Infiniband upgrade to roll round just to see what types of whines will come up then. For the people saying "EvE is a sandbox game" and, in this particular case, the OP's words: Originally by: Gaia Thorn I whine cause CCP is turning this game to shit cause they promote it as a sandbox but every patch that comes out the remove a fair bit of that sand from our box. I have a few points for you. # This isn't your sandbox. This isn't your sand. You're allowed to use them, but you don't own them. If/when the owners of said box and sand decide to change something, your only choices are to keep playing in it or leave. # Remember the sandbox you used to play in when you were young? Go out and find it. Chances are good you won't find it. Why? Because sandboxes are dying out. Because they're being abused. They're being used as toilets and trashbins by people that take the "Do whatever you want" idea for granted. (Note that in this case it doesn't matter if you clean up the box and/or replace all the sand in the box, these same people will just come back and do the exact same thing, simply because it's there.) # Assuming you find your old sandbox, do you expect it to be unchanged? To have the same exact same (amount of) sand that you used to play in, or even the same type of sand? To still have the original paint, or the original sandbox walls? Even sandboxes change in 5 years, whether you want them to or not. # The carebears took over EvE a long time ago. Or haven't you looked at the ratio of players in Hi-Sec vs Lo- and/or No-Sec? Or is that the topic of your next whine? Or maybe you've already whined about that fact? Now on to another thing. While reading this thread, especially the part about NPC corps, an idea came up. Granted, this idea isn't as hot since I read Tippia's answers (which are very good points in that argument, may I add) but the idea is this: Many skills cannot be trained on trial accounts to prevent exploits, but what about preventing some skills from being trained while the player is in an NPC corp? What would be the good/bad points of this idea? Im saying this is a sandbox cause thats what CCP called it when they promote it !! As for it not being my sandbox no its not but im sure as hell is paying for and have payed for the last 4 years. And yes i can leave the game if it doesnt fit and im almost at that point where im actually considering it cause im getting less and less of pvp and more and more of blobbing. And No i dont assume my sandbox to stay the same but it sure isnt fun to play in it if ive got a shovel with holes in it. The ratio of highsec vs loand 0.0 has nothing todo with carebears cause i sure as hell have done pvp in highsec does that make one a carebear ? And when CCP corrects a problem they use a hammer to fix what a screwdriver could have done leaving lesser of a mark.
Pindleskin Amarr Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:59:00 - [265] Unless the NPC corp changes maybe a little.. All toons over 5 mill SP will be forced to join the milita as global service (or any other RP thing u wanna use) ? I just wanna have fun in the game, i dont fly afk for that risk is not worth the reward.. others should 2. In fact, just remove autopilot :) Pindle P.s. Boost Amarr :) ----this----
Neesa Corrinne Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:02:00 - [266] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Gealbhan This will increase war dec's on small empire corps 10x and turn empire into a warred out wasteland. The true test of whether or not CCP is really watering down the game might be seen in the following scenario: 1. Increase in empire war occurs 2. Massive whinefest and corp hopping over this occurs by people who didn't realize that wars are a part of the game 3a. CCP nerfs wars 3b. CCP nerfs corp-hopping (3b. is the correct answer, CCP) I support this claim. I also support nerfing alliance hopping. When I was in BWL still, we war decced a no longer existing alliance (partly due to our efforts) named Fang. Within 24 hours 8 corps left the alliance. 24 hours after the war ended several rejoined. If I hadn't been swept up in RL concerns at the time, I would have petitioned their cowardly actions. This isn't to say that I really expected anything less from Toof.
Sweet Laylah	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:03:00 - [267] Edited by: Sweet Laylah on 06/08/2008 13:04:25 Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Even -10.0 sec status individuals can simply go rat in 0.0 for a few hours and be back to positive standings. A few hours? Have you actually tried? Average BS rat gives you 0.2% every ten minutes.
Nogap toosmall	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:03:00 - [268] Originally by: Pindleskin Unless the NPC corp changes maybe a little.. All toons over 5 mill SP will be forced to join the milita as global service (or any other RP thing u wanna use) ? I just wanna have fun in the game, i dont fly afk for that risk is not worth the reward.. others should 2. In fact, just remove autopilot :) Pindle P.s. Boost Amarr :) I dont think you can force people to play the game a way they dont want to. Some people get off on the industrial side of the game, some in high sec some in low sec Some people get off on combat, some in pvp, some in pve, some in high sec some in low sec Horses for courses Thinking about it, the sec hit seems a little excessive but maybe thats just there to discourage alt rerolling (or to make it easier to detect?). Basically all that needed to be done was a removal of insurance for concorden and a stamping on of people that use alts for this kinda thing (cos thats kinda griefing)
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:04:00 - [269] Originally by: Nogap toosmall Originally by: Tippia Originally by: copasetic sideways Originally by: Tippia Can you still suicide - yes Can you still make a LOT of isk from idiot haulers - yes Have said haulers whines been answered to some extent - yes Where is the lose? The "lose" is that whenever CCP changes mechanics which make the game a wee bit harder for Mr. "EvE is harsh...blah blah..." they go overboard in their whines and act like CCP is out to completely change the game against their playstyle. Like it is some sort of betrayal. Never mind that they can still pretty much continue to do what they have always done after the change. It is "cooler" to cry like a little ***** and declare the game Hello Kitty/WoW.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:04:00 - [270] Originally by: Gaia Thorn And yes i can leave the game if it doesnt fit and im almost at that point where im actually considering it cause im getting less and less of pvp and more and more of blobbing. Bye. So can I have your stuff then?



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