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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

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Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 127	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:27:00 - [271] - Quote Lapine Davion wrote: Jojo Jackson wrote: Drew Solaert wrote: You can get 24k ehp out of it without gang boosts. But you cut yield to the point you may as well be in an insured covetor instead, with zero tank, and a small loss if your ganked. If you use the lows for tank you get less yield as a mining BS. But it's well known, that CCP HATE miner+industrials (check my sig). - bad joke CPU + Grid - bad joke anti-gang. Anti passive targeter? Anti cargo scan? WHERE ARE THEY??? - bad joke slot layouts. Multi million ISK BC sice hull with less slots then a damn T1 frigat?? - agility and speed like rocks And all this for what? A tiny bit of more cargo space? one word: STUPID! The Orca isn't actually a capital. It's an Industrial Command Ship. The Rorqual is the Capital Industrial. First it is listed as: ships -> CAPITAL ships -> CAPITAL industrial ship -> ore -> Orca So it IS a capital! Second even if you see it just as a Battleship size (which it isn't as it would be listed as Battleships) .. Show me any other BS with 2-4-3 slot layout and just 430 CPU 960 PG. For comperision: Rifter 3-3-4 = same number of slots Drake 525 CPU 850 PG = CAPITAL industrial has slightly better PG but worth CPU then a Battlecruiser Dude, that's nothing but a big fat bad joke! Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 589	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:27:00 - [272] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: "i graze on delicious green grass only occasionally now that i realized the predators are out to get me, and instead spend my time hiding, this surely proves i am not callow prey who deserves to be slaughtered and devoured" Aww how cute. Don't forget sheep boy, it is not only crickets making sound in feilds.
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 24	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:28:00 - [273] - Quote look it thinks its people
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 589	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:30:00 - [274] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Just punching holes in whatever argument you are trying here. Hulks tank fine its players that are the weak link here. Oh it's the players that are at fault, that old canard just doesn't fly. Try it on a noobie who has never heard it before. The picture may very well change after crimewatch 2 is implemented, we'll have to wait and see.
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 24	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:30:00 - [275] - Quote i believe all miners should start fitting more expensive implants, so their podmails are even more hilarious
Alyssa VonDeadAir Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:33:00 - [276] - Quote Wow, you mean I can't optimize my hulk to have full mining capability and an unbreakable tank? WTF CCP Oh wait, if I drop down to t1 strip miners, fit shield resistance mods + shield booster in mid, use resistance rigs, and still keep MLU IIx2....I now have a decent tank and decent mining? And if I have two of these with shield logi drones, it takes even longer to kill? My word, I'm confused now.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 6007	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:38:00 - [277] - Quote Severian Carnifex wrote: Yea, by that amount (40%) increase tank of mining ships and we are happy. We are back on what was 6 months ago. That would make the buff pointless, so why on earth would they do something that stupid? Adunh Slavy wrote: Oh it's the players that are at fault Since it's the player who chooses to make himself easier to kill, and then complain about how easy he is to kill, yes. It is 100% the idiot's fault. Mystrak wrote: No. The orca is under the capital ships section. GÇªand it requires no capital skills; no capital arrays; and CCP lists it in their ship charts as a GÇ£largeGÇ¥ ship, together with the battleships (and, incidentally, the freighters). So no, the Orca isn't really a capship GÇö the Rorqual is. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants.
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 127	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:40:00 - [278] - Quote Karim alRashid wrote: Mystrak wrote: No. The orca is under the capital ships section. So, what? Not all battleship sized modules can be fit on all frigs either. If a ship is listed under Battleship .. you expect to be able to fit Battleship size moduls, aren't you? Hell, most of you fit 1600mm plates (BS SIZE) or Large Shield Extender (BS SIZE) or X-Large Booster (BS SIZE) on everything starting from Cruiser hulls. From your argument NOTHING should be able to fit a 1600mm or Large Shield Extender EXCEPT Battleships. By by HACs and Drakes with DOUBLE BS moduls! But no, this would hurt your playstyle. But industrials/miners are third class players anyway right? So why should they get the same fitting rights as you get? Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Severian Carnifex 164	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:42:00 - [279] - Quote Tippia wrote: Severian Carnifex wrote: Yea, by that amount (40%) increase tank of mining ships and we are happy. We are back on what was 6 months ago. That would make the buff pointless, so why on earth would they do something that stupid? oh... so ganking is intended to be only viable gameplay for Destroyers in EVE??? Can DEV please confirm this please???
Alain Kinsella 100	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:43:00 - [280] - Quote OK, lets try a different tack - modifying mining ships in a subtle way. -> Drop cargohold to 500 m3 (allow crystals and spare mods/drones) -> Add a (non-expandable) ore bay of decent size to each class, say 5K for barges and 10K for exhumers (maybe scale across the entire set) -> re-work strip miners slightly so they drop into the ore bay -> (optional) give exhumers the sig radius and agility one class below the barges, to allow an I-Stab/Nano agility fit for Low and Null (more risk, more reward) This would still allow you to fit for tank or yield, and afk is still possible to some extent. But gives more possibilities on both sides (including the chance for smarter targets maybe), all with a tweak that's not related to tanking. I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player. Just more subtle.

Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 127	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:44:00 - [281] - Quote Tippia wrote: Severian Carnifex wrote: Yea, by that amount (40%) increase tank of mining ships and we are happy. We are back on what was 6 months ago. That would make the buff pointless, so why on earth would they do something that stupid? Adunh Slavy wrote: Oh it's the players that are at fault Since it's the player who chooses to make himself easier to kill, and then complain about how easy he is to kill, yes. It is 100% the idiot's fault. Wrong. The buff happened to make this weapons and ships compareble to other COMBAT ships. NOT to make your anti sozial ganker life easier! CCP just ignored (as usual) the influence on Industrials and Miners (as CCP hate Indutrials and Miners, we all know it). Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Severian Carnifex 164	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:44:00 - [282] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: Severian Carnifex wrote: bornaa wrote: Yea, i am talking about relevant class of ships and weapon type on dessys that are most used. And if you look at changes it really is 25% and 15%. And sorry, its not 33,333% its even more, its 40%. Yea, by that amount (40%) increase tank of mining ships and we are happy. We are back on what was 6 months ago. And gankers got tier3 BCs too (cheaper gankers BS). tornados cost more to use now than an artillery apoc did with insurance And what would happen if you did not got tier3 BCs?
Darth Gustav Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 308	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:46:00 - [283] - Quote Jojo Jackson wrote: Tippia wrote: Severian Carnifex wrote: Yea, by that amount (40%) increase tank of mining ships and we are happy. We are back on what was 6 months ago. That would make the buff pointless, so why on earth would they do something that stupid? Adunh Slavy wrote: Oh it's the players that are at fault Since it's the player who chooses to make himself easier to kill, and then complain about how easy he is to kill, yes. It is 100% the idiot's fault. Wrong. The buff happened to make this weapons and ships compareble to other COMBAT ships. NOT to make your anti sozial ganker life easier! CCP just ignored (as usual) the influence on Industrials and Miners (as CCP hate Indutrials and Miners, we all know it). Right, because CCP doesn't want money from Industrialists. The real problem is that Industrialists don't want balance from CCP. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 6008	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:46:00 - [284] - Quote Severian Carnifex wrote: oh... so ganking is intended to be only viable gameplay for Destroyers in EVE??? Can DEV please confirm this please??? No, but why on earth would they implement a change that counteracts a buff they just made like that? Put another way: why on earth should they buff the Hulk just because destroyers were buffed? If it's because destroyers are often used to kill hulks, then the logic you're implying applies: they buffed the destroyers so they can kill hulks more easily, so why should they undo that buff? If it's for some other reason, then the increased ability of destroyers is irrelevant, so why bring them up? Jojo Jackson wrote: Wrong. The buff happened to make this weapons and ships compareble to other COMBAT ships. NOT to make your anti sozial ganker life easier! Actually, one inevitably generates the other. Regardless, if they buffed the destroyers to improve their combat ability, then there is no reason to buff the Hulk just because they buffed the destroyers, because they have nothing to do with each other. You can't have it both ways, and no matter which way you choose, there is no reason to buff Hulks. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants.
baltec1 1076	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:47:00 - [285] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: baltec1 wrote: Just punching holes in whatever argument you are trying here. Hulks tank fine its players that are the weak link here. Oh it's the players that are at fault, that old canard just doesn't fly. Try it on a noobie who has never heard it before. The picture may very well change after crimewatch 2 is implemented, we'll have to wait and see. So its not the pilots fault for not tanking their ship?
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 25	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:47:00 - [286] - Quote Severian Carnifex wrote: And what would happen if you did not got tier3 BCs? well then it would be even more of a nerf but i tend to make it rain brutixes and thoraxes and save the alphaing for when it's just going to be incredibly satisfying: and in that case i don't care about an extra 30m
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 25	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:48:00 - [287] - Quote the catalyst is good but I prefer the sure thing of a thorax rammed right up the orehole or a brutix rammed up two oreholes at once
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 589	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:49:00 - [288] - Quote Tippia wrote: Adunh Slavy wrote: Oh it's the players that are at fault Since it's the player who chooses to make himself easier to kill, and then complain about how easy he is to kill, yes. It is 100% the idiot's fault. So why does the ganker get a security status penalty, he should be blameless, right?
baltec1 1076	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:49:00 - [289] - Quote Jojo Jackson wrote: CCP just ignored (as usual) the influence on Industrials and Miners (as CCP hate Indutrials and Miners, we all know it). Because CCP never stopped insurance payouts for concorded ships...
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 272	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:51:00 - [290] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: Adunh Slavy wrote: EvilweaselFinance wrote: this is why miners are so hilarious to kill since you don't understand ship fitting you start fitting inapproporiate deadspace mods during the first great hulk jihad it was hilarious how many pubbies we convinced to fit a-type shield reps to resist ganks Oh look, the dim wit troll can't help but make generalizations and use personal pronouns, assuming he knows everything about everyone. Keep proving you're one of the sheep. That's a good boy. its funny you call other people sheep while you're complaining your grazing is insufficently safe from predators highsec miners are, without exception, dimwitted idiots who deserve the destruction meeted out to them personally if you are in a noob corp longer then 30 days you should be forced into a npc corp that can be war decced... and if you want to kill a high sec minner you should war dec the person/corp and then kill him in a legit mannor... or get enough ships together to effectivly bloop him... like 4 nadoes so the cost ratio is atleast half of a hulk... kinda ironic thats its goons who complained to ccp about titans bloping thier maels/drakes when they are blobing hulks left right and center(using simular broken mechanics)... I just think its hypocritical to complain about titans bloping drakes and then complain about people complaining about hulks being bloped...

Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 589	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:52:00 - [291] - Quote baltec1 wrote: So its not the pilots fault for not tanking their ship? Are you really going to pretend it all comes down to one thing? Am I supposed to just fall for this line of reasoning?
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 25	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:52:00 - [292] - Quote it's "blapped" not "bloped" or "blobed"
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 6008	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:52:00 - [293] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: So why does the ganker get a security status penalty, he should be blameless, right? What on earth are you on about? Why should he be blameless? He gets the sec status penalty because he chooses to. The Hulk player is at fault for being easy to kill because he chooses to be easy to kill. What's confusing you about this very simple relationship? Quote: Are you really going to pretend it all comes down to one thing? Am I supposed to just fall for this line of reasoning? How is it not the player's fault if he chooses not to tank his ship? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants.
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 25	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:52:00 - [294] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: baltec1 wrote: So its not the pilots fault for not tanking their ship? Are you really going to pretend it all comes down to one thing? Am I supposed to just fall for this line of reasoning? nobody expects you to do much of anything with a line of reasoning besides stare blankly at it and wonder if you can eat it
baltec1 1076	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:55:00 - [295] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Are you really going to pretend it all comes down to one thing? Am I supposed to just fall for this line of reasoning? I expect you to use the grey matter. If you do not tank your ship and then get blown up by a destroyer it is entirely your fault. The ganker simply took advantage of your stupidity/greed.
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 127	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:55:00 - [296] - Quote Mystrak wrote: No. The orca is under the capital ships section. GÇªand it requires no capital skills; no capital arrays; and CCP lists it in their ship charts as a GÇ£largeGÇ¥ ship, together with the battleships (and, incidentally, the freighters). So no, the Orca isn't really a capship GÇö the Rorqual is.[/quote] If it would be listed as BS (which it isn't INGAME) .. WHY doesn't it has the same amount of slots, CPU, PG as any other BS size ship? Min 6 high, as shield tanker min 7 mid, min 4 lows and anough CPU+PG to fit a common BS fit: (oh and base cap, shield, cap recharg, shield recharge on par with BS ... not just some gimped T1 frig stats!!!) - 2* LSE - 1XL-Boost - 2Hardener - MWD - Survey Scanner (as it has the bonus) - DC - 3gank link - 3 tractor (as it has the bonus) - 3 lows for whatever people want using T2 moduls .. NOT super expensive officer/dead space stuff! Mael = 5-6-8 my Orca = 4-7-6 still 2 less slots then a BS Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 6009	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:56:00 - [297] - Quote Jojo Jackson wrote: If it would be listed as BS (which it isn't INGAME) .. WHY doesn't it has the same amount of slots, CPU, PG as any other BS size ship? For the same reason the Hulk doesn't have the same amount of slots, CPU, PG as any other BC-sized ship. I can't be bothered to scrub through 80 hours of fanfest video, but it's in one of the presentations about ship iterations GÇö they show the full chart for ORE and industrial ships (which they didn't include in the blog), and the Orca apparently doesn't qualify as capital, just like what the skill reqs and (lack of) usage limitations would suggest. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 589	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:58:00 - [298] - Quote Tippia wrote: Adunh Slavy wrote: So why does the ganker get a security status penalty, he should be blameless, right? What on earth are you on about? Why should he be blameless? You said it was the victims fault 100%? Is there some sliver above 100% that I am unaware of? Shall we check your math? 100% seems pretty absolute to me, how about you? Tippia wrote: He gets the sec status penalty because he chooses to. The Hulk player is at fault for being easy to kill because he chooses to be easy to kill. What's confusing you about this very simple relationship? Quote: Are you really going to pretend it all comes down to one thing? Am I supposed to just fall for this line of reasoning? How is it not the player's fault if he chooses not to tank his ship? And your equivocation and huburis is exposed. Thanks for playing.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 589	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:59:00 - [299] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Adunh Slavy wrote: Are you really going to pretend it all comes down to one thing? Am I supposed to just fall for this line of reasoning? I expect you to use the grey matter. If you do not tank your ship and then get blown up by a destroyer it is entirely your fault. The ganker simply took advantage of your stupidity/greed. Which goes back to the point, why fly the hulk at all? Fly the covetor instead.
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 127	Posted - 2012.04.11 17:59:00 - [300] - Quote Tippia wrote: Jojo Jackson wrote: If it would be listed as BS (which it isn't INGAME) .. WHY doesn't it has the same amount of slots, CPU, PG as any other BS size ship? For the same reason the Hulk doesn't have the same amount of slots, CPU, PG as any other BC-sized ship. I can't be bothered to scrub through 80 hours of fanfest video, but it's in one of the presentations about ship iterations GÇö they show the full chart for ORE and industrial ships (which they didn't include in the blog), and the Orca apparently doesn't qualify as capital, just like what the skill reqs and (lack of) usage limitations would suggest. To make it eazy target for gankers? Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!



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