Cruisers - designed for combat, so have decent armour and shields
Battleships - designed for combat, so have decent armour and shields
Industrials - designed for haulage, so have decent cargo capacity
Mining barges - designed for mining, so have access to unique mining lasers

I see no problem here. Each ship is designed for its purpose. Giving a hulk a good tank would be like giving an industrial eight turret slots; it is inappropriate for the ship class, and has nothing in common with the intended purpose of the ship.

Youre right. they should make it so you CANT
AT ALL
fit defensive stuff on that "NON COMBAT" ship

as it is after all non combat

The Hulk is a crap vessel to tank as it is, only way to get a reasonable (pre t3 BCs) tank is to make it less efficient for the job it's supposed to do.

In short they need looking at and make them at least stand more chance of survival whislt they're doing the job they're supposed to do.

[Hulk]
Reactor Control Unit II
Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Modulated Strip Miner II,Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II,Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II,Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

Works fine to me :) (20k ehp + 271dps repair)

cargohold full in 6 cycles

GǪso in other words, there is no real need to buff the Hulk since there is a viable alternative, and yet the Hulk is the ship everyone uses. In fact, it's one of the most used ships in the game, so it can't be nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

The Hulk was designed with the gameplay of 2006 in mind. We're 5+ years further now.
The Hulk in these days needs a buff to be able, even tough oh so slightly, to cope (just a little bit), with the challenges of today.

Today, 150 TIMES cheaper ship can kill hulk!

In other words, when you have 1 choice for 1 task (even if required in great numbers) that's the choice you get.

Guess why they buffed destroyers?

[Hulk]
Reactor Control Unit II
Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Modulated Strip Miner II,Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II,Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II,Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

Works fine to me :) (20k ehp + 271dps repair)

cargohold full in 6 cycles

Obvious troll is obvious, also, alpha

Yes? So? That's a good thing.
.

Why would you say troll? EFT begs to differ. Only prob is 17 mins of cap. But he, you don't need the booster all the time right :) natural shield repair already is 84 dps. That's more then sufficient in highsec.

GǪwhich means the Hulk isn't a problem since you obviously have more than one choice. You and many others keep pointing this out in this very thread. You have demonstrated that there are other choices, which aren't being used because the Hulk provides enough benefit to be worth it. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason to buff it.

Because they were woefully inadequate since inception compared to what you'd get out of frigates and cruisers. It also provided gankers with a much-needed buff to counteract the many security buffs highsec have received over the years.

Quite irrelevant.

The point is, they're both the same kind of ship: a non-combat industrial-type ship meant for one thing and one thing only (and, just to repeat that: it's not combat). You can still squeeze 30k EHP out of a Hulk, and that's fairly respectable for what it is and what it's supposed to be doing.

That's rubbish, if I had not fitted the Hulk to tank in hi-sec I would have lost both Hulks that were suicided, both survived but that was before there were any t3 BC. I doubt either would have survived if a t3 BC had attacked them.


The Hulk is a crap vessel to tank as it is, only way to get a reasonable (pre t3 BCs) tank is to make it less efficient for the job it's supposed to do.

In short they need looking at and make them at least stand more chance of survival whislt they're doing the job they're supposed to do.

Look at what CCP did last few years
Boosted all gankers tools and gave them new ships too
And what they did with mining tools??? Nothing

In the last 6 months CCP boosted all destroyers by 25%!!
They boosted hybrids by lest say around 15%
They introduced Tier 3 BCs that can kill few hulks before concord comes and its cheaper then tools gankers had before
Everything on this field is against miners and for wuss "PVP-ers".

And now they are going to boost the rest of cheaper combat ships...

I've yet to see a sensible (ie: game balance-based) argument against enabling Hulks to fit Large Shield Extenders.

I am having extreme fun helping your stuff cost twice as much as in the past. I could buy 100 Hulks with the ISK your kin has lost to me in the last months.

Got the buff? Cool now stop the 1000 threads about how evil is to have minerals cost twice as much.

Yeah, but if you get your tank up that high, what it's supposed to be doing is the problem...your yield will be utter crap, kinda negating the point of the ship.

If you're going to quote me, at least address me when doing so.

The point remains: the Hulk remains one of the most popular ships in the game in spite of there being a number of alternatives that could potentially even be better or more sensible, according to your reasoning. It's not underused, and it's not being used solely because it's there are no alternatives. So what grounds is there to buff it?

The thing is, that cuts both ways: there's very little in the way of sensible arguments for enabling them to fit one either. Like you say, it won't make much difference. Yay, it now has 50k EHP instead of 35k, and will still die horribly to a proper gankGǪ

GǪand people still won't tank it and will still die to improper ganks. So why bother?

I quote you because you are the only one who can bump a thread forever.

Because it's the smartest way to not make minerals go completely nuts after the recent and future game changes.

But then they'll get kicked out with a slam in their teeth once they lost 2-3 ships to the first 2 weeks old guy in a destroyer.

This argument works for any ship in the game, why ever boost anything then

I have recently taken up the olympic flame of ganking Hulks and I must say they are pretty ******* ridiculous. My t2 fit Catalyst rocking overheated neutron smoked a Hulk in a 0.8 system before CONCORD even showed up on grid. And I probably could've done it in a t1 fit. 5 minutes ratting in nullsec and I recovered the ISK and sec loss. I'm all for making Hulks gankable in highsec but I'd like to see doing it require something like a gang of what I was flying, or maybe a high-DPS cruiser (Thorax) or BC hull to do it.

Yeah, but if you get your tank up that high, what it's supposed to be doing is the problem...your yield will be utter crap, kinda negating the point of the ship. It's meant for one thing and one thing only as you say, but if you FIT it for that one thing, you can't survive anything.

I've yet to see a sensible (ie: game balance-based) argument against enabling Hulks to fit Large Shield Extenders.

I honestly don't care at all for the "but they're supposed to be non combat ships" arguments. Game balance is more important than fluff every time. Come to that, Amarr are supposed to be far more advanced than the other races, but CCP discarded the idea of making Amarr ships more powerful.

By far the greatest danager to Hulks comes from player ships, not rats. And the ability of player ships to attack Hulks has expanded far faster than the ability of Hulks to withstand them.

By all means jig the Hulk's fittings so that fitting a Meta 4 LSE means that you need a fitting mod and can't put in any MLUs - much like putting an MSE is now. But an LSE should indisputably be a viable module on a Hulk fit that's focused on tank.

It honestly won't make all that much difference: greedy idiots will still mine with 0 tank mods and 2x T2 cargo rigs. But the alert, capable player who wants to actually protect his ship should have a better option than a Frigate shield module.

To repeat my question, what does a professional ganker need to kill a hulk that


I'm sure there is even a table with the math somewhere?

I'm fine with Hulks getting buffed to fit LSEs.

Providing they lose the Exhumer 3% Mining Buff per level.

I don't see why the gap between them and Covetors should be widened any more considering Hulks are the only non specialised T2 industrial ship.

The ship gets a 7.5% bonus per level to resists. Even when fitted for max tank the hulk is a better miner than a covetor while being much harder to kill. This is the problem with you people, you simply cannot grasp that you have a choice of defence or better yield. The only reason destroyers can kill hulks is because people chose to have no tank at all.

To repeat my question, what does a professional ganker need to kill a hulk that
a) has no tank
b) has some tank (DC)
c) has max tank (DC, Bulkheads, SEs)
and how dependent is it of system security status?

I'm sure there is even a table with the math somewhere?

Also, I officially give up on this argument, apparently the vast majority of miners are useless sycophantic half wits without the brains to realise what the rest of EVE worked out years ago; you have to sacrifice something. Weather its Tackle\DPS\ECCM\Utility so you dont die.

\rage