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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:13:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Not an exploit to take advantage of a sudden surge in a market.
I wasn't trying to say it was, but if for example the feroquel (sp) can be traced to a 'free stuff' pos then using it to take advantage of market panic makes a profits the proceeds of an exploit. There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
Ima Alt
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:13:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Ima Alt on 11/12/2008 03:13:02
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs You don't understand database transactions hey?
You don't understand market dynamics hey?
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Ima Alt
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:15:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Elisa Day
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3434/omgmarketh4xrh0.jpg
It's the great Enriched Uranium and Liquid Ozone coverup of 08!
What region is that?
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Kulmid
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:19:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Ima Alt Considering it takes minimal skills to set up a POS, the big alliance people who profited from this exploit almost certainly used alts. Rest assured, those throwaway characters 100% funded by GTCs were banned ruthlessly.
I think they'd be able to track things a little bit better than that. And unless they registered those account under a fake name, CCP will know who they are. The only way to really wash the ISK is to make it look like it was aquired in some way by force, and not by the alts just giving it straight to mains/corps/alliance. Or to run it through a series of market transactions, but to wash that amount if ISK would have an effect on the market.
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Re Mi
Caldari Funshine Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:20:00 -
[365]
Edited by: Re Mi on 11/12/2008 03:23:23
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Why is CCP tampering with the market history prices? (Sorry, I don't spend all day playing market games, so please enlighten me).
Unknown. Suspicions vary, but the most common I've seen is that they're trying to cover up the advanced materials price spikes that occurred. Which is weird because why would CCP have reason to change market price history data unless it was to specifically cover up something?
The only market that really matters is Forge, its the main volume market. The other markets could be the same person selling at the same place for a week, so unless you have a before or after screen shot, I wouldn't put much faith in it. I have bought and sold to myself in order to set a regional average, I am sure a lot of other players have as well. I have also bought and sold to myself to both raise and drop the regional average depending on where I wanted prices to go. I don't think its time to call CCP out for something nefarious, especially without any evidence. If they were going to be nefarious, they never would have made this thread. But they did, so they are at least trying to keep this open.
That said, they might be confiscating materials. I am not sure how you do an accounting of that, it would probably do something goofy in the market windows. If a significant portion of the materials are fraudulent and as yet unsold, or was sold to banned players, they could simply pull the materials off the server. Maybe this is what that looks like when they do it on a large scale, if that is indeed the case, which we don't know. My own belief is that they should just issue the patch they were already planning and just extend it a bit to deal with these issues, or possibly extend downtime, stop the speculation, and inform the players. *And remember, these players probably actively manipulate the market, so they probably have a LOT of transactions that need to be taken back.*
I think now is a good time for a forensic audit of the EvE market, and a report on the Serpentis takeover of the Jita Commodities Exchange.
Back on Retainer. I am cheap but not easy. |
Ima Alt
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:21:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Elisa Day
Originally by: Ima Alt
Originally by: Elisa Day
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3434/omgmarketh4xrh0.jpg
It's the great Enriched Uranium and Liquid Ozone coverup of 08!
What region is that?
The Forge.
That's weird that the goods affected are different depending on the region. Hmm, mysteries abound! I stand corrected.
In Domain, minerals are zeroed out, but advanced moon minerals had the "maximum" prices changed to eliminate the spike in the history. Also, PLEXes and every tech2 ship and module that I checked were not changed at all.
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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari Quicksilver Industries and Painful Effects Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:21:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Ima Alt
Fact is, you had an exploit that benefited certain parties greatly followed up by an alteration of historical data that again benefited the same parties. The guys who were doing these exploits weren't throwing up POSes with their mains - they used alts. Those alts are now banned, but the fruits of their exploitation could well be in the hands of the mains, who AGAIN, benefited from today's market panic.
With the change to market histories, it was like all the crazy buying and selling today never took place. Some real life money was made in Eve, today, and CCP seems to be covering somebody's tracks.
Originally by: Halkin bob is dead, goons are great, cheese is cheesy, there we go no need for any more threads
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GateScout
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:21:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Elisa Day
Originally by: Ima Alt
Originally by: Elisa Day
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3434/omgmarketh4xrh0.jpg
It's the great Enriched Uranium and Liquid Ozone coverup of 08!
What region is that?
The Forge.
The same thing is happening in Amarr...
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Ima Alt
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:25:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Kulmid I think they'd be able to track things a little bit better than that.
Legions of ice mining macroalts and real money traders disagree with you.
I think it isn't a matter of CCP not being able to link alt accounts with main accounts, more a matter of them not bothering with it when 99% of the Eve population is satisfied with symbolic alt bannings. Sure, the exploiters/RMTers/macroers could use proxies and contracts to evade character linking, but really, if CCP even put up a moderate anti-alt abuse effort, it wouldn't be so widespread in the first place.
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TYCONDEROGA
Amarr Malum Crusis IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:31:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Ima Alt Edited by: Ima Alt on 11/12/2008 03:29:01
Originally by: Kulmid I think they'd be able to track things a little bit better than that.
Legions of ice mining macroalts and real money traders disagree with you.
I don't think that it's a matter of CCP not being able to link alt accounts with main accounts, but more a matter of them not bothering with it when 99% of the Eve population is satisfied with symbolic alt bannings. Sure, the exploiters/RMTers/macroers could use proxies and contracts to evade character linking, but really, if CCP even put up a moderate anti-alt abuse effort, it wouldn't be so widespread in the first place.
/me looks at name of poster and laughs
He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing! |
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durek magaliese
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:31:00 -
[371]
So i'm guessing just like in the real world the chinise server is going to buy us out?
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:39:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.
Imagine if you learned the fire department had been giving away Molotov ****tails. Would you tank them when they decided to stop?
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:41:00 -
[373]
Lolz you cant type "****tail" out its the word used for mixed drinks.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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rValdez5987
Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:44:00 -
[374]
well, after some research I think i have a fairly firm grasp of what happened, and I don't like it at all. It was a HUGE screwup by CCP, basically the result of inaction to something they knew was happening.
Thats about all I can say. I'm still not satisfied with what I know, and my sources could be full of sh**, so might now more in as this plays out.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:47:00 -
[375]
STOP THE THREADNAUGHT! POWER DOWN THE ENGINES AND PREPARE TO BE BOARDED!
Lets take a look at what we do and don't know.
What we DO know:
We DO know that a bug was fixed, or atleast shut down today. we DO know that poses and other resources were offlined and confiscated. We DO know that this bug has caused some market unstabillity. We DO know that much of this distress is caused by a post on the SHC forums by someone who supposedly engaged in the bugged tower fiasco for 4 years (how this man has the stamina to manage POSes enough to even spend the money he claims to have is beyond me).
What we DON"T know:
We DON'T know who's pose's were offlined. There is no offical or unoffical thread chronicaling bans, pos offlines, pos removals, or confiscation of ANY asets. We DON'T know the extent of the financial bubble caused by these poses. It could all be localized, since the mats we're looking at can be simply re-applied to construction within the alliances who produce the T2 goods. We DON'T know if the initial post on the SHC forums is even REAL, or just an epic troll, who sparked a flame war on the EVE-O forums. We DON'T know how long this activity has actually gone on. We only have the word of a supposed participant who refuses to identify who he is, or what alliance he's from. We DON'T know the actual ammount of ISK summoned out of nowhere from these POSes. It could be 5 mil, it could be 500 trillion. we simply DON'T KNOW.
Before we all put on our Amarr hats, and join in the 27th imperial crusade against the foul CCP infadel and their BoB allies, lets take a step back, and remember, this news just broke today. CCP its self is still probably looking into the numbers. I bet you that more than a few CCP employees had to call up their dates tonight, and are missing out on some healthy exposure to icelandic women, all because of some exploit, so lets all calm down here.
That being said, I'd like the report about what happened on my desk by tomorrow with a little more info than 'we found a bug guys!'
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:51:00 -
[376]
Nice, rumormill points to this being 4 years old now?
Okay CCP, that banhammer's going to be busy, because if that timeframe is to believed, practically EVERYONE who's bought something off the market (read: practically everyone) is suspect and part of the problem. -
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Riggor Khan
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:54:00 -
[377]
The real bad part of this whole thing is, CCP will ban a handful of people (mostly empire based) to use as an example and sacraficial lambs. The biggest offenders like AAA, TCF, UNL, BoB, Goons, Razor, MM, RA, etc will not be bothered. What is the point of even bothering with ccp any longer when they will tell half truths and can not even confess to something as simple as game lag.
There is a new game about anyway, "Jump Gates". Maybe there it will be possible to get a little honesty and integrity. CCP seem to have a hard time remembering who the customers are and how their people get paid.
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Re Mi
Caldari Funshine Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.12.11 03:58:00 -
[378]
Edited by: Re Mi on 11/12/2008 04:06:54
Originally by: Kulmid
Originally by: Ima Alt Considering it takes minimal skills to set up a POS, the big alliance people who profited from this exploit almost certainly used alts. Rest assured, those throwaway characters 100% funded by GTCs were banned ruthlessly.
I think they'd be able to track things a little bit better than that. And unless they registered those account under a fake name, CCP will know who they are. The only way to really wash the ISK is to make it look like it was aquired in some way by force, and not by the alts just giving it straight to mains/corps/alliance. Or to run it through a series of market transactions, but to wash that amount if ISK would have an effect on the market.
Heres how it might work: How bout I rent space from you? Isk washed. I am both the renter and the landlord in RL, renting to my own alts who make fake reactions. Now I buy T2 BPO with my rent money and buy reaction materials from my renters (who are really me) so I can make T2 ships for the cost of T1, so I make even more money. *Oh yah, now I hire some sucker carebears to build me Titans.*
The real problem is that CCP has to decide if that entire tainted income stream gets confiscated. In the past they have not done that. In this case, I believe, that those who have eaten from the poison fruit should die.
Back on Retainer. I am cheap but not easy. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:03:00 -
[379]
Any alliance that had this going on in any POS should lose all their POS.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Alois Hammer
Minmatar Dinochrome Brigade Caeruleum Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:06:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Alois Hammer on 11/12/2008 04:06:53 this is prolly gona be a "ban all chars on mr x's account.. which means the alts are spared if they were bought with the same isk but from other people. in that case alot of iskies is still prolly available . of course , if mains were involved , it will definetly raise some questions........... hey who has my old space?!?!?!?! :)
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:06:00 -
[381]
I guess it's that time of the year again.
Hello, winter drama! ____________
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Lea Re
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:08:00 -
[382]
What should happen is not banning 1. Check who was involved 2. Check the amount of isk that was made on suspicious transactions 3. Deduct that amount from wallets 4. Check large donations to other players 5. Check stated donation reasons 6. Deduct that money from players that were given isk 7. make the whole process transparent to eve community
it's a sad day for eve
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Cur
Minmatar Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:09:00 -
[383]
It never happened. Continue shooting npc's and mining to earn your legitimate isk.
Erm..MSN brothers, can I borrow a few trillion isk? Please?
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Kaper
Faulcon de Lazy Inquest
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:15:00 -
[384]
Not many of you checks the price histories after midnight eve time I gather.. The market history has always been several hours late doing the final sums for "yesterday" - for items with many transactions/large quantities..which is why the history for everything from tritanium to wrath cruise missiles over moon materials are late..
Calm down, have some dip.
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Vitrael
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:16:00 -
[385]
Well, every time I start to lose my objectivity for this game and become entrapped in its awesome glowing lasor pew pew fantasy world, some hot new scandal comes and sends me hurdling back to ****hole reality at the speed of then thousand internets per second.
Oh well... here we go again.
I SUMMON THEE... THREADNOUGHT!!!
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DelboyTrotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:19:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Lea Re What should happen is not banning 1. Check who was involved 2. Check the amount of isk that was made on suspicious transactions 3. Deduct that amount from wallets 4. Check large donations to other players 5. Check stated donation reasons 6. Deduct that money from players that were given isk 7. make the whole process transparent to eve community
it's a sad day for eve
This
All the isk generated should be removed from the game, but via the alliance wallets that held sov on the POS's that were exploiting |
Elisa Day
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:22:00 -
[387]
Originally by: DelboyTrotter All the isk generated should be removed from the game, but via the alliance wallets that held sov on the POS's that were exploiting
Of course, this exploit actually didn't "generate" any ISK...
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:23:00 -
[388]
Originally by: DelboyTrotter
Originally by: Lea Re What should happen is not banning 1. Check who was involved 2. Check the amount of isk that was made on suspicious transactions 3. Deduct that amount from wallets 4. Check large donations to other players 5. Check stated donation reasons 6. Deduct that money from players that were given isk 7. make the whole process transparent to eve community
it's a sad day for eve
This
All the isk generated should be removed from the game, but via the alliance wallets that held sov on the POS's that were exploiting
If you removed all the money the keys players would all be Bliiions in debt and everyone in their alliances that got free stuff would still be ahead.
the alliances need to lose all their POS immediatly.
It turns out the entire EVE game is built on cheating.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:27:00 -
[389]
let's see.. did the person who was witness to this supposed four year old bug petition it? did any of you years ago? My thinking is there is just irrresponsible bashing going on here.. calm please. I'm sure the real details will surface in a news feed. In the mean time, all these questions are just plane not important right now. =====
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Vitrael
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:41:00 -
[390]
test
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