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Burn Mac Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:41:00 - [511] Oh noes the POS-gate but ah i have always thought something was messed up with ppl being able to buy GTC:s like its nothing.
Gen Laviski	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:44:00 - [512] you should get jove to come in and start blowing up alot of pos'es as a severe penalty for those allaince that gained from these exploits on top of removing all asset gained in that bug abuse or just simply wipe there sov out. but nevertheless i do hope ccp respond to some of the posts and most importantly name and shame corps/alliances!
hundurinn Systematic Chaos.	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:46:00 - [513] Originally by: Fenren Originally by: Rock'n'Roll Lady Edited by: Rock''n''Roll Lady on 11/12/2008 10:20:08 The way the exploit is explained by the cheaters on SHC "http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21936", only one thing comes into my mind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg_(media) It is manually put there by someone in development team to get benefits from this. And if you assume this as truth all other theories fall in place like why the petition about this was closed without any action four years ago? there is no proof at all that this has gone on for 4 years, that a petition was made or that all alliances have made k's of billions out of it. the closest thing to a reasonable estimation of the timeframe was made by that guy who compared market history and thougt it had gone on for a few weeks. a post from a random char on the forum (with or without a pic) can hardly be seen as evidence. stop jumping to conclutions! Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:49:00 - [514] Originally by: Fenren the closest thing to a reasonable estimation of the timeframe was made by that guy who compared market history and thougt it had gone on for a few weeks. Weeks? We have pretty solid indications that it's been going on at least for a year. First off, look at the price and volume of ferrogel in Jita. Tell me, how can a limited resource increase in volume and decrease in price, even as demand for T2 stuff keeps increasing? Also, there was a thread in december last year complaining about how ferrogel was being sold for under manufacturing costs...
Makeme A'Billion Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:50:00 - [515] Originally by: Makeme A'Billion don't get me wrong, im not saying it was a good thing I'm sorry one of my previous posts must have confused you, I said the above in one of my earlier posts, I have deleted some words and sentences which were around it so you are able to read it now... Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia if you really think that when someone exploits the game, its good for everybody because that person then uses that isk is just.... wow I'm just trying to show everyone that the isk which was "exploited" was actually already out there going around and around, these people simply gathered alot of it, and well most likely went on buying stuff with it. Some people forget you don't win eve if you have the biggest amount of isk in your wallet... or what do you think they have done with that isk? could be a case to bring up the whole using isk to purchase gametime issue...
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:52:00 - [516] Taking bets on which Dev it is finally answers the gathering lynch mob... 2/1 CCP Zulupark (We all love him at the moment don't we?) 3/1 CCP Wrangler (Expert in saying lots but answering nothing) 5/1 CCP Oveur (Times of trouble, out come the big guns...) 10/1 CCP Eris (Would probably turn the mob pink) 12/1 CCP Eyjo (Will blind us with stats that make it seem as if its 2004 again) 100/1 No Answer (....ever) Send your iskies to me for more fixed odds - Cheers. :)
Mookuh Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:53:00 - [517] Originally by: Shadowsword That's a large amount of money for corp having a moon for an extended period of time. Can you imagine what it mean for Evolution or Reikoku? Dozens of billions, possibly hundreds. So, here's the big question: Will CCP make at least a partial compensation? Ahaha...ahahahah...wahahahaha... thank you sir, you just made my day! Sure, let's compensate the most powerful alliances in the game, who've got a shady history with unfair advantages. They most certainly did not benefit from this in any way, shape or form... ahahahahaha ------------------------------------------------ Terry 'Mookuh' Hijakosji CAIN Public Relations
Clansworth Blackwater USA Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:58:00 - [518] I demand a shiny new Snowball Launcher and a Snowball BPO as restitution... System Influence
3rr0rc0d3 Amarr Universal Moose Foundation	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:59:00 - [519] Edited by: 3rr0rc0d3 on 11/12/2008 11:00:02 Good time to come up with another snowball launcher tbh. At least give us some toy to play with to keep our attention elsewhere, CCP /edit: I like your thinking, Clansworth! ______________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler We have discovered an exploit involving starbases that made it possible for some players to gain an unfair advantage over others. [b]Incoming threa
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:00:00 - [520] Originally by: hundurinn Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more. That is true. But they best investigate it completely first. Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on. Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters. As some people already said, this might not that easy as it seems to be. There will most probably lots of alts involved and a good deal of money laundring. Of course no one wants that they ban innocents also! At least I would be more than ****ed off if they would ban my char only because my buy order in jita got filled from one of these guys. So it needs time to give accurate details. In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself: The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers. These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then. Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really. More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post. Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of.
Xordan Caldari Meridian Dynamics Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:00:00 - [521] Originally by: Clansworth I demand a shiny new Snowball Launcher and a Snowball BPO as restitution... /signed And 4 years game time and a few titans plz.
hundurinn Systematic Chaos.	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:07:00 - [522] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: hundurinn Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more. That is true. But they best investigate it completely first. Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on. Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters. As some people already said, this might not that easy as it seems to be. There will most probably lots of alts involved and a good deal of money laundring. Of course no one wants that they ban innocents also! At least I would be more than ****ed off if they would ban my char only because my buy order in jita got filled from one of these guys. So it needs time to give accurate details. In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself: The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers. These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then. Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really. More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post. Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of. I agree with you. However, you can't blame people for jumping to conclusions and believe some banned players over CCP. How CCP handled the T20 fiasco was just a mess and still today people question everything CCP do and say.
Karanth Gallente Independent Fleet Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:12:00 - [523] Need answers here. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Wheel of Whineage
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:14:00 - [524] You muppets..... I never happened According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Vanessa Vasquez KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:15:00 - [525] I don't mind if there has been an exploit or bug. Hasn't affected my game experience much i would say. But what really bothers me is CCP. Again! How can it be possible to have an exploit with such an immense impact like this over 4 years ??? Not only that such dimensions should be obvious on logs, it has also been reported! And again, CCP announces a nice CCP from CCP for christmas. Not a single word on the POS exploit, allthough this patch includes a fix for it. We'r beeing sold a present, which is actually a fix for a 4 year long major exploit. Thats nice, isn't it? Reminds me on the ghost training feature ... erm sorry, bug. If CCP wouldn't have banned these accounts, those guys would never have gone public on, of course, 3rd party forums, CCP would never have made an official announcement and we would never have been told. As far as i'm concerned, this firm lost all reputation. I don't mind failures, bugs, exploits, lag or whatever. We all know that they can happen and nobody is perfect. But i appreciate fair play, and i can't overlook repeating failures in that. Over and out
Mr FourEyes	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:16:00 - [526] Originally by: hundurinn Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: hundurinn Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more. That is true. But they best investigate it completely first. Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on. Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters. As some people already said, this might not that easy as it seems to be. There will most probably lots of alts involved and a good deal of money laundring. Of course no one wants that they ban innocents also! At least I would be more than ****ed off if they would ban my char only because my buy order in jita got filled from one of these guys. So it needs time to give accurate details. In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself: The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers. These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then. Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really. More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post. Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of. I agree with you. However, you can't blame people for jumping to conclusions and believe some banned players over CCP. How CCP handled the T20 fiasco was just a mess and still today people question everything CCP do and say. And once again CCP is handling it baddly, there not saying how long it went on how much is involved, there beeing super vague. Becuase there to embarrased to release the details.
Major Buttache Coded Arms	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:16:00 - [527] I donÆt know if anyone has touched on this yet or not, but iirc that at least two prominent game magazine journalists play EvE. If there is even an ounce of truth to the rumour that this admitted bug was so widespread for so long, well the ramifications will be enormous and no doubt picked up by even national media. I know the BBC did an article on EvE economy, anyone know that journoÆs name?
Mister Zero Synergy Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:17:00 - [528]
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:17:00 - [529] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Tell me, how can a limited resource increase in volume and decrease in price, even as demand for T2 stuff keeps increasing? Many of the dys moons were monopolized. If the monopoly breaks up all these moons become available again and the supply is increased. Also it depends on how much those moons are utilized, if they can harvest constantly or if there is lots of fighting and so on. Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Weeks? We have pretty solid indications that it's been going on at least for a year. Then show us these indications! Just babbling without any facts is completely worthless. Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Also, there was a thread in december last year complaining about how ferrogel was being sold for under manufacturing costs... That thread was complete nonsense, sorry to say. It was nothing more than a whine that the op there couldn't earn as much money as before. It was until recently perfectly possible to earn a good bag of isk from ferrogel reaction. Setup buy orders cheap for the materials in Jita, sell the product for good price. No cheating involved. Of course if you direct buy the expensive dys and the peak of the market speculation and if you sell to low buy orders then your profit margings are indeed small. But so what? Actually I remember that post because I replied in there with exactly the same argument there at that time. It was never unprofitable to produce ferrogel until recently. Price of Dys. 64.000 Price of Prom. 18.000 Price to build ferrogel from materials bought in Jita including pos fuel costs: 16.500 Price to build fermionic condensats: 26.500 Price to build hypersynaptic fibers: 5.400 Now look at the numbers and prices in Jita and you will see that dys was much cheaper in between. The non-profit of ferrogel production is nothing than a myth to keep people off from trying it and thus decreasing the profits for the established people. Unless is see good proof which is backed up by numbers I have no reason that this exploit is going on in a big scale for more than a few weeks! Maybe it was going on in a small scale, but who cares about small scale. The big cheat didn't last longer than some weeks. Only since then you saw big loads of stuff dumped very cheap onto the market and the price crashed. Check yourself the price history in Jita. Very easy to see.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:18:00 - [530] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Taking bets on which Dev it is finally answers the gathering lynch mob... 2/1 CCP Zulupark (We all love him at the moment don't we?) 3/1 CCP Wrangler (Expert in saying lots but answering nothing) 5/1 CCP Oveur (Times of trouble, out come the big guns...) 10/1 CCP Eris (Would probably turn the mob pink) 12/1 CCP Eyjo (Will blind us with stats that make it seem as if its 2004 again) 100/1 No Answer (....ever) Send your iskies to me for more fixed odds - Cheers. :) Quote me odds for 1M ISK on CCP Fallout (make the new guy take the heat again)
CyberGh0st Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:18:00 - [531] This is the sort of stuff why the EvE population growth is seemingly stagnating. Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorite MMO's : DAoC SI era, SWG Pre CU-NGE, Ryzom, EVE Online Retired @ DAoC, SWG, WoW, WAR, Ryzom, LOTRO, Planetside, Diablo I-II, Entrop
Huan CK Gallente Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:19:00 - [532] You know, I kinda like the fact that this all blew up :D I'm not as rich as many others, but I have quite some wealth, and with this story released, I feel even richer, because I for my part know that my money was earned in honest endevours :D Well, I don't know if or how long CCP knew about it, or why and how this story came up now rather than way sooner. To me it's just important that they clean up the mess, get rid of the responsible parties, and make sure that this exploit isn't exploitable any longer. My videos: Watch on youtube.
Von Hinten	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:23:00 - [533] Edited by: Von Hinten on 11/12/2008 11:23:11 Here you go: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3650/reactiongf1.jpg found in german eve-online.de edit, damn someone was faster
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:24:00 - [534] Originally by: Gnulpie That is true. But they best investigate it completely first. Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on. Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters. So it needs time to give accurate details. In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself: The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers. These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then. Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really. More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post. Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of. Because everyone KNOWS SHC is SOOOO much more accurate than anything published anywhere else! I agree with the above, give it time. Thrashing them here will do no good whatsoever... AK Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking. Ethics, Honor and Respect. Without the first two, you can't buy the last one...
Triff Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:24:00 - [535] Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez Over and out come on, you just contradicted yourself.
Veroid	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:26:00 - [536] TQ reset !
Darth Sithus Amarr Beltinci UnderGround	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:27:00 - [537] I'm actualy surprised by all those CCP replies, great job!
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:29:00 - [538] Originally by: Veroid TQ reset ! dont talk stupidity
Tobias Lee Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:29:00 - [539] The main reason and the only reason I believe that CCP simply ignored this is plain and simple money. Pvping needs isk, players that did not know about this exploit, some of them will have paid real money to sell gtc or to pay for 4 or 5 alt accounts to mine like crazy to get pvp ships to fight whilst the exploiters, the big players who are probably all run by ccp alts anyway had free isk so they had more ships to fight and thus cause our poor guy running 4 or 5 accounts or buying gtc for real money to lose more ships and thus have to either buy more gtc or do more mining to fund his/her pvp addiction. Just like real life its all about the money, nothing more nothing less. At this moment in time ccp is in a unique position being the only space mmporg game on the market, however I do know that Jumpgate is released soon, Star trek online out next year and also rumours of a Warhammer 40k online. CCP need to get their **** together and fast, fix those bugs asap or drastically add new content to EVE to push it above those other games and even then its still going to have the stigma of EVE online a game of wealth and power where players will sell even their own mother for isk and even the game developers cheat to deal with. :(
Mr John22ta Underworld Protection Agency	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:31:00 - [540] Originally by: Darth Sithus I'm actualy surprised by all those CCP replies, great job! CCP needs to be very careful with what they say about this. The forums are (rightfully IMHO) up in arms, and anything that CCP says or does, will be scrutinized, quoted, taken as gospel ect. If that info turns out to be wrong, the damage could be amplified. Give them time to find out what has happened, take action, and THEN tell us. There is no point in them replying to us right now, will do more damage than good

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