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Tobin Shalim Vulcan Foundry OPUS Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:52:00 - [1321] Originally by: Dianabolic Orree, take it from me - it doesn't matter what you say. To some, you are guilty, to others, you are innocent, nothing you say will change that. To the rest of us, you're innocent until proven guilty / banned. Let's see, do I really need to go into all the reasons why people would automatically assume that BoB was being involved in this? Do you not remember your own past history with this game, and the crap that you've been found guilty of doing? ----- Originally by: Haakkon I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
durek magaliese	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:52:00 - [1322] I'm still Loling....4 years? XD --- Cahn aye haz ur stuhf?
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:53:00 - [1323] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 12/12/2008 02:53:03 Originally by: Gamer4liff Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton well it wasn't gay4life Excuse me, have we met? Maybe he wants a date with "HotEVEBoi22" - you should accommodate man. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Vincent Aran Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:53:00 - [1324] Originally by: Slade Trillgon Originally by: MyOwnSling Any word as to the economic impact? Well if what is said is true then most who have ever bought T2 equipment have benefited by slightly decreased costs maybe? Slade So you're saying T2 ships should have been more expensive had this exploit never existed?(not sure it's the right way to say what I want to say, I'm french)????? This game is getting more and more boring by the hours...
OffBeaT Caldari KaMiKaZes	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:53:00 - [1325] umm...welcom to the new age of gamming.. maga cheating! what can you say now we have alliances who will never be messed with do to this exploit! i say ccp should close all alliances and restart them fresh. if this won't be done and we know it won't well then the alliances that are not involed in this should have there space resorses beffed up so they can catch up.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:54:00 - [1326] Originally by: Gamer4liff Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton well it wasn't gay4life Excuse me, have we met? look them up in game.
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:55:00 - [1327] Originally by: Vincent Aran So you're saying T2 ships should have been more expensive had this exploit never existed?(not sure it's the right way to say what I want to say, I'm french)????? YES. Most of the T2 should have cost more ISK, allot of it was selling on 10% or less margin, and some of it was selling.... bellow reasonable cost. Which should tell you something about the ridiculous things that were going on. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:56:00 - [1328] Originally by: OffBeaT umm...welcom to the new age of gamming.. maga cheating! what can you say now we have alliances who will never be messed with do to this exploit! i say ccp should close all alliances and restart them fresh. if this won't be done and we know it won't well then the alliances that are not involed in this should have there space resorses beffed up so they can catch up. I would say reset ALL of 0.0. Simply wipe it all out, all stations that were built, all infrastructure, everything, and dump everyone in Empire.
Mari Katarin	Posted - 2008.12.12 02:59:00 - [1329] Originally by: Jinx Barker I initially started right after beta, so I guess myself, nor others like me, really deserve any proper customer service, or honesty, from CCP and its employees, because we just idiots, and would pay our subs anyway. Put yourself in their place. There is no 'winning' here. Whatever they do there will be plenty of unhappy people. CCP is having to deal with the fallout of no growth this year. A combination of nearly no new features, skyrocketing GTC prices (some of which may be explained by a recent popularity of this exploit), nanonerf and ghost training nerf have resulted in an absolutely flat playerbase this year. Going out with pitchforks and torches may result in a drastic current player count haircut. Not going out with pitchforks and torches may also result in a slight player count haircut and bad press wet blanket on future growth. That's the last thing CCP needs going into an Atari deal and pondering how to pay for the new hardware infrastructure and fishtank. We old farts demonstrated that we're willing to stay no matter how badly we're treated. We're codependent. They owe us nothing. Giving us nothing has been the right choice before and will continue to be the right choice in the future. However, as I've posted before -- that is not necessarily the attitude new players are going to come in with. And the future is growth and new players, not us. I'm still hoping CCP will turn over a new leaf and deal with this situation in a way which demonstrates 'zero tolerance' to game breaking cheats.
Roymundo	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:00:00 - [1330] Originally by: Delos Korelian Originally by: OffBeaT umm...welcom to the new age of gamming.. maga cheating! what can you say now we have alliances who will never be messed with do to this exploit! i say ccp should close all alliances and restart them fresh. if this won't be done and we know it won't well then the alliances that are not involed in this should have there space resorses beffed up so they can catch up. I would say reset ALL of 0.0. Simply wipe it all out, all stations that were built, all infrastructure, everything, and dump everyone in Empire. thats a pretty good idea. get rid of all the powerblocs that only got this powerfull through corruption and cheating. be interesting to see the new landscape after the wipe though. pure chaos. imagine! all of 0.0 acting as a fw area till it gets settled.
Deimi	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:00:00 - [1331] I guess we all agree that this have unbalanced the game and damaged the way we play and trade. Yet several days before Wranglers announcement a wild trading in Ferrogel already had started, anyone that visited Jita the last two days have seen the bragging about profits in local there. (And it didn't take long before it started to spill over into speculation on T2 ships and equipment.) And yes for the tinfoil gang that have been positing here I repeat the link to the So Long, and Thanks For All the F.i.s.h ^^ post again, and suggest you read it. The damage done already might be hard to correct in a hurry without innocent players getting caught in between, and that should not happen so I accept the idea that investigation things of the past might take time. But we don't see any attempts on damage control of the current situation either. I really hope the guys at CCP do work overtime to address this fact, I cant imagine any worse Christmas present than just shrug shoulders and leave things alone pretending its 'business as usual'. Is it a new forum rule. That for everyone posting something you don't agree on. You should accuse them of being a troll? ;)
Vincent Aran Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:02:00 - [1332] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Vincent Aran So you're saying T2 ships should have been more expensive had this exploit never existed?(not sure it's the right way to say what I want to say, I'm french)????? YES. Most of the T2 should have cost more ISK, allot of it was selling on 10% or less margin, and some of it was selling.... bellow reasonable cost. Which should tell you something about the ridiculous things that were going on. ...By ridiculous things you mean fun things right? I guess it all depends on how you look at it. But I guess it's true that bigger corporations/alliances would have taken advantage of this a hell of a lot more than small ones, which would greatly affect the natural balance of the universe... Like a fly eating a spider, too cool to care why it's doing it, better watch and enjoy the show :)
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:06:00 - [1333] Originally by: Deimi I guess we all agree that this have unbalanced the game and damaged the way we play and trade. Yet several days before Wranglers announcement a wild trading in Ferrogel already had started, anyone that visited Jita the last two days have seen the bragging about profits in local there. (And it didn't take long before it started to spill over into speculation on T2 ships and equipment.) And yes for the tinfoil gang that have been positing here I repeat the link to the So Long, and Thanks For All the F.i.s.h ^^ post again, and suggest you read it. The damage done already might be hard to correct in a hurry without innocent players getting caught in between, and that should not happen so I accept the idea that investigation things of the past might take time. But we don't see any attempts on damage control of the current situation either. I really hope the guys at CCP do work overtime to address this fact, I cant imagine any worse Christmas present than just shrug shoulders and leave things alone pretending its 'business as usual'. There is a reason why the Ferrogel trading took place before the Wranglers announcement, the rumors were circulating through the alliance(s) that shall remain unnamed... but we all know who they are, that the investigation was taking place. It was as much as given, taking into account the posts on Kugu's blog copied from the alliance forums, such things as: " tomorrow a number of my accounts will be banned" and the reactions of "do they know about the rest of us?" It was simply the last free for all, like what happens in the White House now, you know, "rob everything thats not nailed down" mentality. Or what happened at many other Enron like corporations that basically stole the money from the working folk, a massive bleeding of resources to get every bit of ISK they can. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:07:00 - [1334] Originally by: Roymundo Originally by: Delos Korelian Originally by: OffBeaT umm...welcom to the new age of gamming.. maga cheating! what can you say now we have alliances who will never be messed with do to this exploit! i say ccp should close all alliances and restart them fresh. if this won't be done and we know it won't well then the alliances that are not involed in this should have there space resorses beffed up so they can catch up. I would say reset ALL of 0.0. Simply wipe it all out, all stations that were built, all infrastructure, everything, and dump everyone in Empire. thats a pretty good idea. get rid of all the powerblocs that only got this powerfull through corruption and cheating. be interesting to see the new landscape after the wipe though. pure chaos. imagine! all of 0.0 acting as a fw area till it gets settled. And then promptly loose a lot of players. This idea makes you look less then smart. I do not codone cheating in any way, and it sickens me that people actually do cheat in games, but that how it is. It is incaft a lot of people that did not use this bug, and a lot of folks who have got where they are on merrit. CCP have probarlty been researching a lot about this before they did anything about it. And it culminated in this. Lests face it CCP is interested in its well being, and that is EVE, so lets wait and see what happens. At least the cheater stations is gone and some idiots are banned.
Vincent Aran Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:11:00 - [1335] Edited by: Vincent Aran on 12/12/2008 03:14:43 Originally by: Jinx Barker It was simply the last free for all, like what happens in the White House now, you know, "rob everything thats not nailed down" mentality. Or what happened at many other Enron like corporations that basically stole the money from the working folk, a massive bleeding of resources to get every bit of ISK they can. Except unlike what happened to other companies like Enron no one will lose their lives because of this exploit... I know the EVE economy system is meant to reflect the real world system but there are limits to comparing one with the other.
OffBeaT Caldari KaMiKaZes	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:12:00 - [1336] Edited by: OffBeaT on 12/12/2008 03:15:32 Edited by: OffBeaT on 12/12/2008 03:14:34 i guess i would also like to add that mabe to calm us hard working grind eve gammers the leaders of all the alliances in game should state public that they and there alliance was not envolved in said cheating.. someone who has respect on this from or somone from eve radieo should make a call for this.. i think eve gammers have a right to here from them!
Deimi	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:15:00 - [1337] Originally by: Jinx Barker There is a reason why the Ferrogel trading took place before the Wranglers announcement, the rumors were circulating through the alliance(s) that shall remain unnamed... but we all know who they are, that the investigation was taking place. It was as much as given, taking into account the posts on Kugu's blog copied from the alliance forums, such things as: " tomorrow a number of my accounts will be banned" and the reactions of "do they know about the rest of us?" It was simply the last free for all, like what happens in the White House now, you know, "rob everything thats not nailed down" mentality. Or what happened at many other Enron like corporations that basically stole the money from the working folk, a massive bleeding of resources to get every bit of ISK they can. Thank you Jinx Barker, you confirmed what I was thinking, that the information was leaked and certain players took advantage of the inside information they had. That is the reason I hinted we need some action taken on that part as well. In the real world we have recently seen stockmarkets close when the recession started. I certainly don't suggest that for Eve, it would kill the game. But the trading these last days was indeed the 'last free robbery' these players did to us others, and goddammit if CCP let them win this last score also. Is it a new forum rule. That for everyone posting something you don't agree on. You should accuse them of being a troll? ;)
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:15:00 - [1338] All I can say is... Poor economics professor... Has to do all his calculations afresh.
Emyrxr	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:17:00 - [1339] Originally by: Roymundo Originally by: Delos Korelian Originally by: OffBeaT umm...welcom to the new age of gamming.. maga cheating! what can you say now we have alliances who will never be messed with do to this exploit! i say ccp should close all alliances and restart them fresh. if this won't be done and we know it won't well then the alliances that are not involed in this should have there space resorses beffed up so they can catch up. I would say reset ALL of 0.0. Simply wipe it all out, all stations that were built, all infrastructure, everything, and dump everyone in Empire. thats a pretty good idea. get rid of all the powerblocs that only got this powerfull through corruption and cheating. be interesting to see the new landscape after the wipe though. pure chaos. imagine! all of 0.0 acting as a fw area till it gets settled. ok i am sorry but don't you think that is unfair for all the people who have worked hard and put isk into that infrastructure in 0.0? i mean that is all the sweat and blood of work of alliances.. Also who knows how much isk... so what would that gain us other then very angry people wanting their isk/effort back?
Farouq Rizer	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:18:00 - [1340] Edited by: Farouq Rizer on 12/12/2008 03:18:20 Can you imagine how many people payed real money for GTCs and sold them for ISK that came out of nothing? CCP better track down every GTC transaction and charge 35$ for every GTC that was payed with exploited ISK to those who were caught.
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:18:00 - [1341] Originally by: Vincent Aran Originally by: Jinx Barker It was simply the last free for all, like what happens in the White House now, you know, "rob everything thats not nailed down" mentality. Or what happened at many other Enron like corporations that basically stole the money from the working folk, a massive bleeding of resources to get every bit of ISK they can. Except unlike what happened to other companies like Enron no one will lose their lives because of this exploit... I know the EVE economy system is meant to reflect the reald world system but there are limits to comparing one with the other. Oh I wholeheartedly agree that comparisons between EVE and RL are rather lame. But, in this case I did not say that EVE reflects real life, I just compared similar mechanics. Lets put it this way, if I knew I was investigated, and that I am caught, and that my accounts will be banned/frozen, I will do everything in my power to maximize the ill-gotten gains, and distribute them as far and wide as possible in the hopes that the investigating party will simply not get to it all, and I would have enough left over to laugh all the way to the bank. Organized criminals do it, embezzlers do it, cheaters of all sort of ilk do it, no reason why the same practice would not apply to EVE. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Tasty Bit Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:20:00 - [1342] Whilst we're on the subject of game-threatening bugs, can we also remove that horrible "ghost-training" bug, please? Oh wait, you already took care of that travesty. nvm.
Vincent Aran Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:25:00 - [1343] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Vincent Aran Originally by: Jinx Barker It was simply the last free for all, like what happens in the White House now, you know, "rob everything thats not nailed down" mentality. Or what happened at many other Enron like corporations that basically stole the money from the working folk, a massive bleeding of resources to get every bit of ISK they can. Except unlike what happened to other companies like Enron no one will lose their lives because of this exploit... I know the EVE economy system is meant to reflect the reald world system but there are limits to comparing one with the other. Oh I wholeheartedly agree that comparisons between EVE and RL are rather lame. But, in this case I did not say that EVE reflects real life, I just compared similar mechanics. Lets put it this way, if I knew I was investigated, and that I am caught, and that my accounts will be banned/frozen, I will do everything in my power to maximize the ill-gotten gains, and distribute them as far and wide as possible in the hopes that the investigating party will simply not get to it all, and I would have enough left over to laugh all the way to the bank. Organized criminals do it, embezzlers do it, cheaters of all sort of ilk do it, no reason why the same practice would not apply to EVE. Keep in ming here I'm not a big know-it-all when it comes to EVE economy system, I've been playing since december 06 and NEVER wasted more than 2-3 hours/month in the forums so I don't know how big this really is(does anyone here really do know how big or small this whole thing really is )but it seems to me that this exploit, as bad as it is, in reality only had a small affect on how people play the game.
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:27:00 - [1344] Originally by: Emyrxr Originally by: Delos Korelian I would say reset ALL of 0.0. Simply wipe it all out, all stations that were built, all infrastructure, everything, and dump everyone in Empire. ok i am sorry but don't you think that is unfair for all the people who have worked hard and put isk into that infrastructure in 0.0? i mean that is all the sweat and blood of work of alliances.. Also who knows how much isk... so what would that gain us other then very angry people wanting their isk/effort back? I know exactly what you mean there buddy. But, the problem is that I do not think for a second that it was just poor *******s from 3 alliances and some 70 characters doing it. From the turn on the markets in the last couple of years I would guess a fair number of alliances was doing this, the alliances in question and the 70 alts just happened to be caught due to a disgruntled player blowing a whistle. By wiping out 0.0 CCP will show that they are not afraid of "bold" moves, and are ready to cut and slash anything that is even remotely tainted by exploiters. By same logic, of course, they would have to wipe out all the T2 ships which were built with tainted materials from the last few years, but that is just not feasible. The only valid action is to destroy what has certainly been tainted, a 0.0 infrastructure, where most of the exploited ISK went to. So, yes, I believe it will upset allot of BOB, Goons, AAA and whoever else, and I am sure they will recover, and retake the space. But it will be a cleansing, which we certainly need now, taking into account the massive amounts of ISK exploited and poured into the system.
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:31:00 - [1345] Originally by: Tasty Bit Whilst we're on the subject of game-threatening bugs, can we also remove that horrible "ghost-training" bug, please? Oh wait, you already took care of that travesty. nvm. Yeop. "Ghost Training" a big bad bug, but, free ISK, "it's all good, we just found out a week ago." Problem is I never saw "POS ISK EXPLOIT" feature in the EVE Player Guide, I sure as hell seen "The Skill Continues to train even if the account is deactivated" aka "Ghost Training" though. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
OffBeaT Caldari KaMiKaZes	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:45:00 - [1346] Edited by: OffBeaT on 12/12/2008 03:46:52 this is what the eve gammers all wont i would think.. that is a callout to the alliances to state they have not gained by this exploit. they did not have anyway of gaining from members who where in there allinace who did these exploits. they should also after stating these things be investagated buy ccp to right the game to us. knowone is saying shut down the allianes becouse we all know this cant be done but mabe thouse cought playing around in this exploit should get fined or have some stations took away. i think ccp has already been taking statioins from them but just not saying from who.
Sheila Deteia	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:46:00 - [1347] Originally by: Etho Demerzel It is fair to punish the alliances and corps if they received large sums of money coming from this exploit, and consequently benefited from it.[/quote I disagree , mayb the people actualy doing it need a punishment , but not the members that had no idea, after all , they make up the majority of the Corp / alliance. you say so yourself in a round about way > Originally by: Etho Demerzel And it is just a game, but it is a game where most of us have spent a long time, only to see our efforts turning into a joke. Those unsuspecting members of the guilty Corp/Alliance also dont deserve to see their efforts turning into a joke.
Zaafir	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:49:00 - [1348] I am glad to see the whining has settled down. Perhaps we can get to stage 7 soon. 1.SHOCK & DENIAL 2.PAIN & GUILT 3.ANGER & BARGAINING 4."DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS 5.THE UPWARD TURN 6.RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH 7.ACCEPTANCE & HOPE I am sorry for anyone that gets angered that I am not upset about this exploit getting taken care of today after alleged years of misuse. I am upset that I didn't see the signs yesturday when all the T2 ships started disappearing in the major hubs. Had to spend a lot more purchasing ships today over what I would have paid even a week ago. I am confident that my purchases will payout a great ROI this weekend. Does that make me guilty of exploiting an exploit?
Argyll Branas	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:52:00 - [1349] Sounds like BS to me...they told us nothing about nothing. No details on anything and are trying to come off as our saviors. I think that is a CCP scam to make them appear strong and in charge hence the total lack of details.
OffBeaT Caldari KaMiKaZes	Posted - 2008.12.12 03:53:00 - [1350] Edited by: OffBeaT on 12/12/2008 03:54:14 we all know that most of the bigger alliances where in on this exploit so common i agree with you that the damage is even accross the playing feild with the allianceses.. its the small alliances that got realy held back and cheated with this exploit!

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