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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2009.03.16 13:13:00 -
[1]
So, Apocrypha is out with 3 subsystems per category, we're now starting our next development cycle where we'll look at the fourth variation. There are already tons of good ideas floating around at the office, but before we proceed we'd like to hear your ideas.
What bonuses would you like to see on the fourth subsystems? -What other subsystems would you use it with? -How does is it differ from the other choices? -Drawbacks when fitted, if any?
Please keep the thread clean and stay on topic.
Nozh Game Designer CCP Games |
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 13:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: IceAero on 16/03/2009 13:53:03 reserved (I have a TON of ideas, and this will take some time for me to write )
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Tarminic
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:27:00 -
[3]
Writing up ideas now, watch this space... ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:37:00 -
[4]
Propulsion subsystem (All races): Multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level. 1 high slot (for cloak obviously)
Electronics subsystem (All races): -75% to -100% targeting delay after decloaking per level. Allows to use covert jump portal. 3 med and 1 low slots (or other combination?)
Legion offensive: 5 high slots 1 low slot 5 launcher hardpoint 25 mbit/sec drone bandwidth 50 m3 drone capacity 7.5% heavy assault missile rate of fire per level 10% heavy assault missile velocity per level
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: IceAero on 16/03/2009 14:54:28 Edited by: IceAero on 16/03/2009 14:45:30
Originally by: Lumy Propulsion subsystem (All races): Multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level. 1 high slot (for cloak obviously)
Electronics subsystem (All races): -75% to -100% targeting delay after decloaking per level. Allows to use covert jump portal. 3 med and 1 low slots (or other combination?)
That's my idea too!!! I'm glad we agree...
And the high slot should be with the electronic subsystem, not propulsion :)
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:52:00 -
[6]
hell, I'll give you four AND five.
Tengu: Electronics: probe scanning strength or Siege warfare link use +bonus Defense: Increased shield recharge rate or reduced shield booster cap use. Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount (Not both!) Offense: hybrid damage+tracking or missile kinetic damage+missile explosion velocity and radius Propulsion: 5% speed per level or reduction in ship mass per level
Loki: Electronics: target painter effectiveness or skirmish warfare links Defense: Shield HP or armour HP Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount (Not both!) Offense: missile explosive damage+missile explosion velocity and radius or missile explosive damage+ROF Propulsion: reduced MWD sig radius increase or reduced MWD cap penalty.
Legion Electronics: Siege warfare link or tracking disruptor effectiveness+range Defense: Armour HP or drone HP and damage Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount Offense: missile EM damage+missile explosion velocity and radius or missile EM damage+ROF Propulsion: MWD cap penalty or ship agility
Proteus Electronics: Probe strength or web range Defense: Armour HP or reduced armour rep cap use Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount Offense: hybrid damage+tracking or hybrid damage+ROF Propulsion: AB speed bonus or Drone MWD speed and range
Basically, the three big things I'd like are warfare links (one per ship, max), missile explosion velocity and radius bonuses (not so hot for cruiser-on-cruiser combat, but frigates beware!) and expanding the potential of tech 3 for use as logistics platforms without overshadowing actual logistics ships.
here's hoping at least one of them makes it in - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lumy
Legion offensive: 5 high slots 1 low slot 5 launcher hardpoint 25 mbit/sec drone bandwidth 50 m3 drone capacity 7.5% heavy assault missile rate of fire per level 10% heavy assault missile velocity per level
I guess you want to eat your cake (amarr victor )
electronics subsystems for the other ewar (at least for all races but caldari, caladari get nothing!)
subsystems that give abilities such as the ability to fit bubble launcher or the hictor's thingy, blackops abilities(a propulsion system?)
Engineering subsystem(all races): shield transfer/remote repper capacitor use reduction for respective races, with a corresponding reduction in firepower(negative bonuses to hardpoints/drone stuff).
-- stuff -- |
Gneeznow
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:12:00 -
[8]
if each electronic subsystem ADDED another race's sensor type it would go some way to making t3 ships better when being falcon'd, for example the 4'th subsystem would give minmatar some magnometric magnetometric sensor aswell as their ladar, and the amarr one would get some gravimetric aswell as their radar, making them less vulnerable to racial jamming
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gneeznow if each electronic subsystem ADDED another race's sensor type it would go some way to making t3 ships better when being falcon'd, for example the 4'th subsystem would give minmatar some magnometric magnetometric sensor aswell as their ladar, and the amarr one would get some gravimetric aswell as their radar, making them less vulnerable to racial jamming
There's already a sensor strength subsytem, what more do we need? Making them falcon-proof would be taking things a step too far. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:31:00 -
[10]
Proteus offensive subsystem: (drone sniper) 5 high slots 1 low slot 3 turret 100 (or 125?) mbit/sec drone bandwidth (higher bandwidth because no damage bonus) 200 m3 drone capacity 7.5% sentry drone tracking speed per level 10% sentry drone optimal range per level 7.5% sentry drone hitpoints per level
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
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Finnroth
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:32:00 -
[11]
I believe what he means ist what we already had on sisi for a while. Standard Sensor strength (something between 17-20) but instead of all the way ladar all kinds of sensors. This makes it effectivly harder to guess which type you posses and in return makes the ships alot more ECM proof.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:46:00 -
[12]
Electronics:
Allow fitting of CovOps cloak IIs, or if you don't want to do that, remove sensor recalibration time for Improved Cloak IIs **IN ADDITION TO REMOVING THE SCAN RESOLUTION PENALTY**.
Offense:
Missile bonused subsystems for the Proteus and Legion, drone bonused systems for the Tengu and Loki.
Defense:
75% resistance to all cap warfare (nos/neuts).
Engineering:
Installs jump drive, allowed to jump to Covert Cynos.
Propulsion:
Reduced mass per level.
With the last minute changes to the subsystems right before they were delivered to TQ the T3 ships' slot layouts and bonuses are now pretty boring. Of all the possible combinations only two or three per ship are even remotely viable with all the rest being total crap.
The basic three subsystems need to be improved as well as the fourth and fifth being added.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:16:00 -
[13]
Mining Bonuses, and ability to fit strip miners ;-)
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:16:00 -
[14]
Sensor types of racial allies, as we had on Test for a while, would be very nice. E.g., the Tengu gets an option for Radar sensors, the Loki gets an option for magnetometric, etc.
Covops cloak will not work. It's far, far too powerful a mod. It could break the strategic cruiser class by making it stupid to fit any other electronics subsystem, and the overlap with Force Recons would be very difficult to balance. OTOH, bonuses to cloaked speed, sensor recalibration time and scan res when using a "normal" cloak would be viable.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:20:00 -
[15]
For the Legion would be Khanid-Type Subsystem a good thing, with Bonuses for HAMs.
Another idea might be, to create something a like an Ion Frigate from the Homeworld Series. A Module that allows to effectivly use an oversized weapon system in a small Hull at the cost of defense and maneuverabilty. Perhaps give them the ability to fit a single XL weapon on their Hull.
Another idea would be, to give the T3 Ships an Electronics Subsystem that gives extended Cargo and an in-space refit option for ships, similar to the ability Carriers have.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:19:00 -
[16]
Engineering subsystem: Tengu, Loki: X% reduction in Shield Transport and Shield Booster capacitor use per level Legion, Proteus: X% reduction in Remote Armor Repair and Armor Repairer capacitor use per level
where X is somewhere between 5% to 10%.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:24:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Takeshi Yamato on 16/03/2009 17:24:21
Quote: What bonuses would you like to see on the fourth subsystems?
For the Legion - Offensive subsystem: khanid style heavy assault missile bonus - Electronics: tracking disruptor bonus, 2 med, 1 low
In general - Engineering: +20% cap booster amount per level, cap transfer range/strength bonus - Propulsion: mwd and afterburner mass penality reduction - Electronics: stasis webifier strength - Electronics: reduction in delay after uncloaking - Defensive subsystem: passive armor repair
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Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:38:00 -
[18]
Loki offensive subsystem: 5 high slots 1 med slot 5 turret 25 mbit/sec drone bandwidth 25 m3 drone capacity 7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire per level 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level 7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret tracking per level (maybe overkill?)
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:46:00 -
[19]
-Missile subsystem for Proteus and Legion (offensive) -Drone subsystem for Tengu and Loki (offensive)
-PLEASE make new subsystems have different slots from existing ones!
-Need to be able to use a subsystem to switch around the "racial" mid/low - e.g. atm I cant get a midslot-heavy, few-low Proteus, yet I can fly a Lachesis that does just that! Example - Proteus subsystem, engineering. -2 Lows, +3 mids. Vice versa for Tengu.
-Remote repair range and cap use (engineering).
-Nos/neut resistance (defensive)
-Web strength (electronic)
-Off-racial tanking (armor resists tengu defensive)
_______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:28:00 -
[20]
And last one of offensive subsystems
Tengu offensive subsystem: 5 high slots 1 med slot 5 missile 10% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher damage per level 5% bonus to light missile, heavy and heavy assault explosion velocity per level and eduction in explosion radius 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level
Already mentioned above, but posting because of: 1. want to have full set 2. (imho) more reasonable slot layout and numbers Defensive subsystems: Loki, Tengu: 150% Bonus to Shield Transport range (T2: 15km, 24km, 33km, 42km, 51km) 10% bonus to shield transporter effectiveness per level 1 high slot 1 med slot
Legion, Proteus 150% Bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range (T2: 15km, 24km, 33km, 42km, 51km) 10% bonus to remote armor repair system effectiveness per level 1 high slot 1 low slot
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:49:00 -
[21]
Warfare links diffrent type of sensor like magneto for amarr drone hulls for caldari,amar,minmatar another race ew bonuses painter for caldari, ecm for minmatar and such covert ops hulls
60D GTC - shattared link |
Spazz21
Amarr Lonetrek Trade and Industries Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:50:00 -
[22]
I would like to see something for the Industrialists, currently its all designed for combat,so really it doesn't change up the usefulness too much, just usefulness in combat only. However, if we had parts that could rival the other ships, that would be great.
I don't know about the stats specificly, but just some brain storming be nice to see for something like: Electronic Systems: Increase Warp stability and decreases cargo size. Defense Systems: Increase in cargo Size, resistance, additional Turret Slot/s Offensive Systems: Inc cargo, Turret slots, Mining Laser bonus. Engineer: Increase CPU/Decrease CPU needs from Mining Laser with Harvesting bonus. Propulsion: Idk lol
Just something along that idea would be great so can mix it up so someone can still mine sufficiently and not worry about rats much or something, yet don't want to make ships like transports completely useless, but something that can mine between a BS(with uppgrades and such) but still less then a Hulk and not have to jetcan or warp back to station every 3mins. Maybe have a special secured Jet can only T3 can make? Size of a normal jet can but have password to prevent flippers and still have the 2hr timer on them.
Basically I want stuff that I can mix it up and do other stuff with. If I wanted an all out combat ship, I would just get a HAC or a BS, no point in getting a T3 Ship if all the parts are going to be similar to that of a HAC. As for the Large Weapons idea, that is also a great idea since you got the Stealth Bomber, then having a cruiser that can use large weapons with smaller signature rating would be neat too.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lumy
Already mentioned above, but posting because of: 1. want to have full set 2. (imho) more reasonable slot layout and numbers
Think about this for a second.
You're taking away the hp/resist/tanking bonus and adding something that only helps out in a a t3-specific gang.
I think the 2 low or 2 mid slots are balanced, they won't even make up for the loss of the bonus.
Having 1 low/ 1 mid for the defensive subsystems will make the ships a good bit weaker than they are now.
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:22:00 -
[24]
as some people here posted already:
tengu & loki offensive: 5% medium turret damage, 10% bonus to drone damage, 7.5% bonus to drone hitpoints per level 5 high / 1 med / 0 low ; 100m3 drone bay / 75Mbit/sec ; 3 turret / 0 missile hardpoints
defensive: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level 0 high / -1 med / 3 low ; 3550 armor HP
engineering: 5% shield booster & armor repairer energy consumtion reduction per level 1 high / 1 med / 1 low
electronic: 5% signature reduction per level 0 high / 2 med / 2 low
vica versa for proteus & legion
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:32:00 -
[25]
OK everyone, my top post is complete with the best ideas I can come up with for making T3 the best thing that ever happened to this game :)
Please give me some feedback!
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Uzume Ame
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
With the last minute changes to the subsystems right before they were delivered to TQ the T3 ships' slot layouts and bonuses are now pretty boring. Of all the possible combinations only two or three per ship are even remotely viable with all the rest being total crap.
The basic three subsystems need to be improved as well as the fourth and fifth being added.
This. I would like to know someday the rationale for releasing the subsytems as they're, now T3 is nothing but glorified T2 ships which will cost much more, have SP sink, and with soem terrible useless bonuses/subsystems. Stop adding and fix stuff damnit (the iteration before last minute changes was just much better, I still don't get the changes).
As for the topic, for a change what about doing soemthing different/not boring: - Bonus that somehow give you ability to adapt your ship to tactical enviorenments in whole. Probably would requiere not lazy programming so probably is not a possibility, oh welll...
/rant
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Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: IceAero OK everyone, my top post is complete with the best ideas I can come up with for making T3 the best thing that ever happened to this game :)
Please give me some feedback!
Ok, me being all negative:
1. You are being too generous with slot layout. I think the idea is max 15 slots total for cruiser hulls. Combination of your subsystems are giving 3 more (going to BC territory). 2. Covops cloak - Just NO. Sorry, this is overkill. 3. Your Proteus offensive = Drone Synthesis Projector on steroids - Not really original. 4. Tengu offensive - Lacking on damage department. Compared to Accelerated Ejection Bay. 7.5% ROF just alone gives 1.6x all dmg (2.0x kinetic) at level V vs 1.375x kinetic only.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: IceAero OK everyone, my top post is complete with the best ideas I can come up with for making T3 the best thing that ever happened to this game :)
Please give me some feedback!
Ok, me being all negative:
1. You are being too generous with slot layout. I think the idea is max 15 slots total for cruiser hulls. Combination of your subsystems are giving 3 more (going to BC territory). 2. Covops cloak - Just NO. Sorry, this is overkill. 3. Your Proteus offensive = Drone Synthesis Projector on steroids - Not really original. 4. Tengu offensive - Lacking on damage department. Compared to Accelerated Ejection Bay. 7.5% ROF just alone gives 1.6x all dmg (2.0x kinetic) at level V vs 1.375x kinetic only.
1)
a] The idea behind the Engineering Subsystem #4 is that it IS BC-sized, so that's why it adds 1 low or mid slot and adds mass/signature. I also justify this addition of a slot by saying it has no bonuses to powergrid or cap/caprecharge!
b] The Defensive subsystem 4 adds a high slot, so you can add 1 remote rep without losing a turret, considering it doesn't have any actual bonuses to hp/resists/tanking I believe this high slot balances that out.
c] The Electronic/Propulsion combination always adds 1 high slot, nothing else. But maybe more balanced would be NOT to have it add a high slot, so you must drop a turret or launcher to fit your cloak. I think I like this idea, I've made the change.
2) People really want this, it seems, and I like it as well. I can see it being over powered. See my previous line.
3) True, but CCP though the Drone Synthesis Projector should be a mix drone/hybrid damage platform, which is cool for close range work where 3 blasters + 4 heavy drones will be a lot of damage, but I thought 5 heavy drones without the turrets should be an option.
4) Agreed, I forgot to go back and look at this, as I was wondering about the difference myself. I want this subsystem to do less damage but hit smaller ships a lot harder. 7.5% dmg bonus = 1.44x kinetic. 12.5% = 1.8x kinetic. So I've changed it to 12.5% damage bonus
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Arushia
Nova Labs Empire Research
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:42:00 -
[29]
Proteus Electronics - Drone Link Augmentation +5km drone control range per level 400 CPU 0 Highslots 2 Midslots 1 Lowslot +25 mbit//s bandwidth +50 m^3 drone bay
Target range/resolution/strength: whatever
This would let it finally compete with the Ishtar for Drone DPS, at the cost of a slot.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Arushia Proteus Electronics - Drone Link Augmentation +5km drone control range per level 400 CPU 0 Highslots 2 Midslots 1 Lowslot +25 mbit//s bandwidth +50 m^3 drone bay
Target range/resolution/strength: whatever
This would let it finally compete with the Ishtar for Drone DPS, at the cost of a slot.
I like your idea about the drone control range, I added it to my post, and took away a high slot. Basically forcing-fit a drone range augmenter.
However, you can't have your offensive subsystem adding no high slots, or else you could have 0 high slots, and that just doesn't fly.
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Temitten
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Posted - 2009.03.16 23:17:00 -
[31]
I would like, for the legion, an offensive subsystem with really high damage (plenty of hardpoints, more damage bonus than the current ones, or maybe rate of fire), but no cap use bonus. The mini-abaddon we've been longing for if you will. For electronics (any and all ships) the ability to fit an interdiction sphere launcher would be cool. Defensive subsystems that decrease pg and/or cpu requirement to fit plates/shield extenders as appropriate. Propulsion systems with slow (like 110-120 m/s) base speed but immunity to web. Finally for engineering subsystems I would like proper logistics bonuses, cap use reduction (and preferably a solid range bonus) for medium armor/shield transfer mods.
Oh as for loki/tengu and proteus offensive subsystem 4, it would be best with a sizeable smartbomb damage bonus as well as cap use reduction.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Temitten I would like, for the legion, an offensive subsystem with really high damage (plenty of hardpoints, more damage bonus than the current ones, or maybe rate of fire), but no cap use bonus. The mini-abaddon we've been longing for if you will.
This will never happen, I don't think CCP will let these T3 cruisers out damage the tier 2 BCs...
Originally by: Temitten
For electronics (any and all ships) the ability to fit an interdiction sphere launcher would be cool.
This won't happen either, and I pray it never does.
Originally by: Temitten
Defensive subsystems that decrease pg and/or cpu requirement to fit plates/shield extenders as appropriate.
Not a bad idea, but you already have a Hp bonus subsystem...
Originally by: Temitten
Propulsion systems with slow (like 110-120 m/s) base speed but immunity to web.
Not fair.
Originally by: Temitten
Finally for engineering subsystems I would like proper logistics bonuses, cap use reduction (and preferably a solid range bonus) for medium armor/shield transfer mods.
I agree, read my ideas for the engineering/defensive subsystems.
Originally by: Temitten
Oh as for loki/tengu and proteus offensive subsystem 4, it would be best with a sizeable smartbomb damage bonus as well as cap use reduction.
uh...explain?
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Jettisoned Can
Jenova's Witnesses
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:19:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jettisoned Can on 17/03/2009 00:23:10 Some of these have already been mentioned, but:
Gallente Electronics: +5 km drone control range per level +25 mb/s drone bandwidth +50 m3 drone capacity 3 mids, 0 lows Increases drone bandwidth at the expense of a low
Amarr Engineering: +10 km nos/neut range per level 1 high, 2 low
All race electronics: -100% targeting delay after cloaking +125% cloaked velocity per level 1 high (for cloak), 3 mid Can fit covert ops cyno
All race engineering: +125% remote armor (Amarr, Proteous) shield (Loki, Tengu) transfer range per level 1 high, 2 low
Minmatar propulsion: Increased effectiveness of stasis webifiers 1 mid
Amarr offensive: 7.5% HAM launcher RoF per level +20% missile velocity per level 5 launchers 5 high, 1 low
Caldari offensive: 7.5% Assault launcher RoF per level 10% missile velocity per level 10% missile explosion velocity per level 7 launchers (damage bonus only applies to assault launchers) 6 high (loses a mid versus other systems)
Gallente propulsion: +120% cargo capacity per level 1 low
_________________________ Did you really not have enough room for me? I'm only 1m¦. |
Siu Supjee
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:38:00 -
[34]
Legion and Loki should get Electronics modules with CPU bonus, equivalent to the Tengu and Proteus modules.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:07:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 17/03/2009 02:15:36 Ok, so as awesome as a covops cloak subsystem would be, I doubt we're ever going to see it, so I have two suggestions:
1) Pirate faction subsystems. One per race, giving them the special ability of the appropriate faction cruiser. RP it as the sleepers borrowing from wrecked pirate ships that wandered down the wrong wormhole.
Tengu - Sanshas Hardpoint Optimization (Offensive)
+5 high +3 turrets + 100% medium energy turret damage + 7.5% medium energy turret tracking/level + 7.5% medium energy turret ROF/level
+X grid (to allow grid-hungry lasers on a ship meant for missiles)
Legion - Blood Paralyzation Enhancements (Electronics)
+10% NOS/neut drain/level +10% web range/level
+1 or +2 high (undecided) +X grid (enough to fit 1 or 2 nos/neuts, as appropriate)
CPU, slot bonuses to be decided later
Proteus - Serpentis Nanofiber Upgrades (Propulsion)
+1 mid, +1 low -X% mass/level (or +X% speed/agility per level, if mass reduction is no longer allowed)
Unfortunately this leaves Minmatar kind of lacking, since the Minmatar faction cruisers are really just Minmatar ships with a better looking model. +20% to looking really ****ing awesome per level really isn't too valuable in combat, sadly. So if there's no better Minmatar option, change the Gallente one and it might work:
Proteus - Guristas ReallyCoolMissileWord (Offensive)
+7.5% missile ROF/level +7.5% medium hybrid ROF/level +10% missile velocity/level
+6 high +4 launchers, +4 turrets + X CPU (to allow proper missile setups on a Gallente ship)
Loki - Serpentis HeyLookI'mABlasterVagabond Upgrades (Offensive)
+10% medium hybrid turret damage/level +10% medium hybrid turret falloff/level or +10% medium hybrid turret tracking/level
50m3 drone bay, 50m3 bandwidth +5 high +5 turrets +X grid (allow proper blaster setups on a ship meant for ACs)
2) Gang mods. I second this proposal, gang mods on a T3 ship would be awesome. Make it an electronics subsystem, appropriate slot and CPU bonuses for the race. Example:
Tengu - Fleet Coordination Module (Electronics)
+3% siege warfare link effectiveness/level
100% reduction in warfare link module fitting requirements (rather than let people just take +200 grid, +50 CPU and skip the gang module)
+1 high +3 mid +1 low
+460 CPU -----------
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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:52:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
2) Gang mods. I second this proposal, gang mods on a T3 ship would be awesome. Make it an electronics subsystem, appropriate slot and CPU bonuses for the race. Example:
Quoting this. Also would like to see offracial sensor types
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 06:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
2) Gang mods. I second this proposal, gang mods on a T3 ship would be awesome. Make it an electronics subsystem, appropriate slot and CPU bonuses for the race. Example:
Quoting this. Also would like to see offracial sensor types
Ability to use commandlinks would be awesome indeed! :) "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.03.17 07:05:00 -
[38]
Originally by: IceAero Edited by: IceAero on 16/03/2009 21:56:55 FINALLY COMPLETE (<3 you Nozh)
STUFF
[/u]
very good ideas
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Sendinal Cortere
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Posted - 2009.03.17 08:00:00 -
[39]
Throw a bone to the people that will make t3 possible. The w-space explorers.
Engineering subsystems seems the best fit.
Gas cloud harvesting bonus A 10% yield bonus per level will make a Harvester I at skill V will harvest 15m3 per cycle so 5 more of the common, 1 more of the mid, and 0 of the rare. A Harvester II 10 more, 2 more, and 1 more.
1 harvester II, with a fully gang-boosted cycle time(22.5% decrease), and max subsystem skill Hourly yield(rounded down) Common: 2064 vs 3096 Mid: 516 vs 722 (odd due to size of fullerites) Rare: 206 vs 309
I hope my math is right. In my defense it's 3 in the morning.
Don't think it's over the top, but not sure about the booster market effects. If that's a concern drop it down to 5% per level.
Either alone will drive down the cost while upping the demand of t3 hulls and subsystems. We know how far the miners will go for that extra % yield. The fact that they'll be used by dedicated explorers/harvesters in 0.0, with delayed local means juicy targets as well
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Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.03.17 08:48:00 -
[40]
Electronics Subsystem 4: 500% increase to onboard scanner range. Cosmic Signatures, Ships, Drones/Probes and Structures added to scan list. 20-40 Scan Strength
What explorer wouldn't want a built in probe system? Probably not implementable since the removal of POS system scanners, but I can hope. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
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Temitten
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Posted - 2009.03.17 09:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: IceAero
Originally by: Temitten
Propulsion systems with slow (like 110-120 m/s) base speed but immunity to web.
Not fair.
I believe perhaps you consider this unfair because one of the races gets bonuses to webs which would be rendered useless? Maybe so, but consider this: (I base my argument here on the state of t3 ships a couple of days before release, I realize they got a bit mixed up after that, but I believe this to still be valid) There are subsystems which will get you long locking range (in fact all of them did before..) thus making dampeners all but useless. There are subsystems with high sensor strength thus reducing the likelihood of getting hurt by ecm. There are for all races (assuming legion gets their HAM subsystem) the ability to fit the ships main weapon system invulnerable to tracking disruptors and/or cap warfare. In fact it is in all cases possible to fit the entire ship invulnerable to cap warfare (well proteus will struggle slightly.. but anyway there is an offensive subsystem which gives no bonus to hybrids, only drones). And you could argue that the mwd sig decrease bonus acts as a counter to target painters... All we lack is some sort of resistance to webs and to warp scramblers (the latter would be most game breaking indeed if it were introduced, the first would be fine).
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2009.03.17 10:10:00 -
[42]
something that exchange x% shield/armour hp + x% shield/armor rep per lvl, but increases the rof and x% damege accordingly. letting you make a class cannon if this is your main coal ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:52:00 -
[43]
I like the idea of a electronic subsystem allowing the fitting of a covert cloak.
However it should come with penalties, -2highs - 2weapon hardpoints, -drone bandwidth, maybe +1 med or low to compensate.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:54:00 -
[44]
Assault Ideas
Overlord Electronics, when coating the standard electronics sensors with new receptionatory coatings and enahncing the comptuers handeling them to take up the increase of informational traffic. When combined with a command link module the computers are now able to analyze everything on the battlefield and can easily interface with other ships, allowing them to save power, shift defenses, or pintpoint weaknesses in enemy formations just as effeciently as a command ship.
Floodgate Offensive This system uses advanced grid, elevator, cpu hookup mountings to allow multiple bomb launchers and accelrates thier rate of fire, however it doesnt program it as well as the native bomb launchers on a stealthbomber and cannot fine tune thier explosion thus resulting in a smaller size and lesser damage. But refire rates and *****bility make up for it.
Anti-interdiction Navigation Using a highly exotic form of navigation no known traditional means exist to counter it fully, this decreases the effectiveness of webbers, and warp scramblers on MWDs, and strengthens the core very marginally. However the extra mesh of defenses leaves wanting for more navigation slots that are lost in the installation.
Fortified Engineering By surrounding the nearby reactor firewall with a honeycombed armor the core is able to retain far more of its energy even when outside forces react on it such as nuetralizers, however the cost that the ship its' attached cannot coax energy easily from it either.
Regenative Defense subsystems This system surrounds the ship with an angry swarm of repair nanites, they flood any cracks in the hull and armor and form sheets of themselves along the shields effectivly increasing the amount of defenses available at a constant repair rate. However the nanite factory and controller are massive peices of equipment taking up room normally reserved for other tanking modules and electronics.
Recon Ideas:
Silent Navigation New whispering thrusters are highly effecient in ebbing local space to help squeeze the ship along allowing faster acceleration, cloaked navigation, and warp speeds.
Subspace Stabilzation Enginneering Using the ships own power core to help generate the subspace distrubance greatly reduces the catalyst fuel required to open rifts in space because of this there is now more room in the cargo bay.
Spectrum Electronics New computer meta-matrixes allows the main computer of a ship to rapid swap between functions and roles without impacting other systems signifcantly including shifting from covert cloaking to scanning them down.
Phasic Defense By saturating the highly asorbent armors with radiation from cloaking this plating greatly reduces cap available but pays off by providing a significanly reduced signature size, the technology behind this however leaves very little room or other defensive systems and amplyfing any other defensive effort would be counter productive. Goes well with other signature reducing systems.
Slipstreamed Offense Delaying the rate of fire and draining power from the primary mechanism its possible to overcharge and ionize rounds before sending them on thier way in creating a extremly highly powerful attacks with a massive alpha strike, perfect for 'assinations'. However this has a limited number of offensive slots and barrows an enginnerring slot and a stuctural slot in order to keep the weapons from falling off when they fire. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.03.17 12:11:00 -
[45]
defensive, all races +2 meds +25% range to remote sensor booster and remote eccm optimals +5% effectiveness of "
// defensive so it can be combined with the sensor strength electro sub and can't be tanked with some weird resistance bonuses, exploiting the "extra" med slot in some cases
altough i'd rather leave this kinda thing for a second row/tier of logistics that each could also offer the other remote rep system - putting the gist back into logistics |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.03.17 12:43:00 -
[46]
Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 17/03/2009 12:44:23 I'd like to start seeing truly unique ships - a wildcard which could really throw in a WTF?! moment to a fight.
For example, and for no particular race:
Subsystem to allow you to fit oversized weapons, with increased damage, at expense of manoeuvrability and defences. -2 high slots: +400 PG per level -10% (increase) in Large Hybrid/Energy/Projectile/Cruise/Torp Launcher Rate of Fire. per level. +50% increase in Large Hybrid/Energy/Projectile/Cruise/Torp Launcher Damage per level. -35% shields -35% armour -35% velocity
Subsystem that gives you the ability to fit bomb launchers (as mentioned elsewhere). +5% bomb damage per level.
Subsystem to carry a handful of fighters, at expense of all other offensive capability: 0 Turrets 0 Launchers -3 High Slots +500m3 drone bay
And so on. Simply ships which think 'outside the box', and unique to each race. Sure there's going to be imbalance, but as long as the ships aren't wtfsolopwnmobiles, there's not a massive concern.
What I do the rest of the time |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Amy Wang I like the idea of a electronic subsystem allowing the fitting of a covert cloak.
However it should come with penalties, -2highs - 2weapon hardpoints, -drone bandwidth, maybe +1 med or low to compensate.
If you think about it, the way I did it, it already comes with -1 high (you gotta fit the thing) and -1 hard point (because you don't have spare high slot on t3 cruisers)
Any more penalty should come from a low sensor strength, but still of a different race.
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whydirt
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:59:00 -
[48]
Random ideas that may be dumb or overpowered:
Offensive Subsystems - Impressive DPS bonus for projectiles or missiles in exchange for requiring cap to fire. - Subsystems for hybrids or lasers that eliminates cap use enitrely. RP reasoning can be super-advanced solar energy collectors or some crap. - Offensive subsystems for other faction weapon systems (probably with slightly reduced capabilities compared to primary weapon subsystems)
Defensive Subsystems - Subsystem that gives near immunity (say 95% base resist) to enemy faction damage type in exhange for very reduced resists (maybe even down to 0%) everywhere else. - Bonus to hull reps, resists, and/or HP.
Electronics Subsystems - Allied faction sensor type. - Bonuses to profession modules (salvagers, analyzers, codebreakers). - SB/Black Ops style cloaking bonuses.
Propulsion Subystems - Subsystem that gives WCS points.
General - Subsystems in general that give low/no bonus, but give lots of open slots.
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Khorian
Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:13:00 -
[49]
Defensive System: Optimized adaptive Doomsday Deflector Reduce the damage taken from any Doomsday device by x% Add HP/Shield and resist bonus increase Sig Radius, lower Speed
---
My EvE Story Blog
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:13:00 -
[50]
Proteus offensive subsystem:
5% chance to make blasters workable 7,5% chance to kick carebear-devs 20% chance to delete whine-account if hit by blasters Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
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DrNeato
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:25:00 -
[51]
Just add a cloaking subsystem of all the ships. Might as well, they are already bastardized versions of HACs and Recons anyway.
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Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:37:00 -
[52]
A propulsion subsystem with an immunity to unfocused warp disruption (bubbles, interdiction spheres, etc), but reduced base speed, warp speed, and maybe agility. Somewhere In England |
Cannibal ATC
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:14:00 -
[53]
I'd like a spaceship with wings. Real wings. Not the maxi pad version they keep attaching to the odd hull.
Other than that they look cool, and the bonuses are already intriguing.
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Istanar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:21:00 -
[54]
All above ideas already introduced by t2 ships, why not to design something new and unpredictable?
For example: 1. Defensive subsystem, which increase shield amount by reducing armor amount (possibly to 0 hp) and resists. And vice-versa. 2. Electronic subsystem getting another sensor type to prevent jamming by single jammer type. I.e. to successfully jam such ship ECM ship pilot should use two types of jammers on target. 3. Propulsion subsystems, which prevents usage of MWD modules, but instead greatly increase efficiency of Afterburners. 4. Engineering subsystems having bonuses to fit greater size weapons. But this will, also, require to rebalance offensive subsystem bonuses to take effect not only medium laser weapons, for example, but for all laser weapons at all.
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Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:52:00 -
[55]
personally I'd like to see the 4th (or 5th, or both) subsystems geared towards wormholes in general.
So things like:
Electronics: hacking/archaeology/salvage/scanning bonii (x% per level to modules) Defense: environmental effect reduction (-% from enviro effect or something both the bonus and neg you get) Engineering: increased rig calibration total or reduction in calibration amount used by rigs (fixed amount) Offense: damage multiplier bonii to proj/hyb/missile/laser (up to 50% extra at lvl5, reduced ammo usage basically) Propulsion: reduced mass (like sig radius, but effects ship mass)
the point with them is to make t3 capable of producing a ship that is specialised as living in wormhole space, rather than just a run of the mill lego ship. ----------------------
My Blog |
Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tarminic Edited by: Tarminic on 16/03/2009 14:54:18 Writing up ideas now, watch this space...
Okay, here's some things that I've come up with so far:
1. Cross-racial Weapon Systems Bonuses for the "allied" empire's weapon systems, i.e. loki gets drone and/or hybrid bonuses, proteus gets a projectile bonus, etc
2. Battleship-class Weapons Fitting bonuses for battleship-sized weapons to bring them down to cruiser fittings, with the caveat that there are no damage bonuses to said weapons.
3. Mini-Profession/non-combat Components Instead of hardcore weapon bonuses, reduction of high-slots in favor of bonuses to archeology/salvage/hacking/probing systems or hell, even mining bonuses.
4. Bomb Launchers Subsystems You know you want it.
These ideas are all terrible and you are an idiot for suggesting them.
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Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:22:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 17/03/2009 14:18:00 Defensive System: Adaptive Optimized Doomsday Deflector System Reduce the damage taken from any Doomsday device by x% Add HP/Shield and resist bonus increase Sig Radius, lower Speed
Proposed role: Allow raids into cyno jammed, Titan protected systems to take down Cyno Jammers, Jump Bridges etc.
You have never seen a titan in-game before, have you
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:45:00 -
[58]
4th sub system: "Recon" subsystem, ie bonus allowing Covert Ops cloak and Covert Cyno Generator to be fitted. Bonus to both regular and covert cyno fuel consumption/duration. grants jump harmonics 2 attribute.
5th sub system: "HIC" Subsystem, ie bonus allowing Warp disruption Field Generator (with or without script) to be fitted.
Combined with the first 3 subsystems this would create my dream ship :)
-------------------------- NOTR B A N A N A S |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:47:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Rajere 4th sub system: "Recon" subsystem, ie bonus allowing Covert Ops cloak and Covert Cyno Generator to be fitted. Bonus to both regular and covert cyno fuel consumption/duration. grants jump harmonics 2 attribute.
5th sub system: "HIC" Subsystem, ie bonus allowing Warp disruption Field Generator (with or without script) to be fitted.
Combined with the first 3 subsystems this would create my dream ship :)
Seriously, you think you'll have a bubble on a t3 ship?
People are out of touch :(
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:54:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 17/03/2009 19:56:04 As long as I could have 7 launchers for the Legion, I don't mind on the other combinations... that's really only the system I want to see. EDIT: Thinking about cloaking part... it would be too powerful, I'm afraid. why, you asking? Well, just because I know myself. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
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Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:05:00 -
[61]
Pirate-like subsystems that when used as a set provide an omega-like bonus.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:51:00 -
[62]
Originally by: IceAero
Originally by: Rajere 4th sub system: "Recon" subsystem, ie bonus allowing Covert Ops cloak and Covert Cyno Generator to be fitted. Bonus to both regular and covert cyno fuel consumption/duration. grants jump harmonics 2 attribute.
5th sub system: "HIC" Subsystem, ie bonus allowing Warp disruption Field Generator (with or without script) to be fitted.
Combined with the first 3 subsystems this would create my dream ship :)
Seriously, you think you'll have a bubble on a t3 ship?
People are out of touch :(
Of course not, it would be totally overpowered. Doesn't change the fact that it's my dream ship, and ccp asked for suggestions. -------------------------- NOTR B A N A N A S |
Caldreis
Caldari White Star II BrightSpark Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:43:00 -
[63]
There are too many combination of subsystem that waste turret/missile I would recommand a few highslot extender with drawback as bigger signature or other kind of drawback.
There are also too many combination that let you have drone bay with no bandwidth so I propose a bandwidth subsystem across all 4 race with drawback of having less mid or low.
Hmm what else? A decent tanking subsystem for loki as the other races can get 5000 Hp buffer minmatar can't without using large shield extender or armor plates.
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Dwindlehop
Uninvited Guests Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:53:00 -
[64]
I would like an Electronic subsystem which reduces the CPU need of Expanded Probe Launchers, probably also with a scan strength bonus. It would be useful to be able to combat probe with a combat-capable ship for smaller gangs where a dedicated prober is not an option. I like the idea of a drone-based offensive subsystem for the Loki and would use it with the web bonus and velocity bonus. I wish there was a subsystem that made it so a T3 hull wouldn't instantly melt in a large engagement. Some ideas are an ECM burst or ECM bomb bonus, ability to break webs, or the ability to tank lots of damage briefly (probably cause a reduction in offense, but keep the ability to be remote repped and to move). Just the mere existence of such a subsystem would keep T3 hulls from being called primary every single fight. It might be nice to trade off tracking for damage. Basically I'd like a hull with the maneuverability of a cruiser that can put out BS quantities of damage on a BS or larger target, but does less than normal T3 class damage against a cruiser or frigate size target. I like the idea of having a subsystem which drastically rearranges the med and low slots. I have no particular use in mind.
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Cailais
Amarr Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.03.18 00:32:00 -
[65]
Offense - Spatial Recalibration: Enmeshing the pilots higher brain functions with the ships sensor arrays allowing ultra precise acquisition of tactical data. 100% reduction in fitting requirement of Extended Probe Launchers.
Defense - Biogenic Cortex: Primary internal systems are replicated with biological constructs rather than typical electronic systems and a high absorbancy hull make the vessel nearly impervious to traditional EW attack. 10% reduction / level in the efficiency of all targeted E War (ECM, Sensor Damps, TD, TP)
Engineering - Infused Nanite Hull: The ships fabric is infused with nanite technology enabling overheated repairs to be made without recourse to crude nanite pastes.
Propulsion - Warp melding harmonics: High velocity cloaked speeds +200% velocity per level as the ship bends space around itself for fast cloaked interception. 0 targeting delay. Allows use of cov jump portals. (nb: not cov ops cloak).
Electronic - Symbiotic Neural Feed: Counters the harmful effects of ingested combat boosters through powerful genespliced fluids forced into the cerebal cortex. -20% reduction in booster penalties per level.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Miner Nine
Caldari Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.03.18 02:19:00 -
[66]
Can we get a T3 subsystem that will block IceAero's posting?
It's pretty bad.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.18 03:29:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Miner Nine Can we get a T3 subsystem that will block IceAero's posting?
It's pretty bad.
That's so horribly on topic of you :)
How about some constructive criticism?
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.18 07:03:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Pirate-like subsystems that when used as a set provide an omega-like bonus.
I disagree. A set bonus would go completely against the spirit of T3 (awesome and near-limitless customization options) and create an obvious setup that is better than all of the others. Forget having 9999999999999999999 options, now you're down to one per race.
For a better way of adding pirate subsystems, see my post earlier in the thread. -----------
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.03.18 08:48:00 -
[69]
How about making T3 unpredictalbe(like they should be):
Offensive Systems
Gallente: 5% Damage, 30% Falloff per Level to Blasters 5 Turrets, +25/50 Dronebandwide/Dronebay, -50% Optimal Range Penalty -> AK Style Blaster Ship
Minmatar: 20% Damage, 30% Optimal per Level to Autocannons 5 Turrets, +50/100 Dronebanwide/Dronebay, -50% Falloff Penalty -> Blaster Style AK Ship
Together with the Web/Scram Range Boni this would make T3 fare diffrent to T2, T1 or Faction Ships and very unpredictable. Ships still using her racial weapons, but the performance is closer to weapons of other races.
Not realy shure on Lasers/Missles, but a Missles on the Legion would be nice.
Electronic Subsystems:
Gallente: Imunity to Warp Scrambling(MWD can¦t be turned off) Minmatar: Imunity to Webs Caldari: Imunity ot ECM Amarr: Imunity to Nos\Neuts -20% reduced CPU, -1 Utility/Tank Slot -1 High/Turret/Missle Hardpoint
The ship could be immune to his own racial EW, increasing the surviability and flexiblity, while lowering the Tank and Gank of the ship at the same time. The CPU penalty reduces the EW and Tank Options to keep it in line.
Defensive Subsystems:
How about bringing back the Idea about the 100% Resistance.
100% Resistance on the main racial T2 Resistance(Kin Gallente, EM Minmatar, Explo Amarr, Thermal Caldari) and increasing the secondary T2 Resistance by another 50%(Thermal Gallente, Thermal Minmatar, Kin Amarr, Kin Caldari).
-2 Tanking Slot, -1 Highslot/Turret/Missle Hardpoint, 50% Penalty on the Effects of Hardners, Membrans, Platings, and Shield Amplifers(not Booster Amplifiers).
With the reduced number of Tanking Slots and the reduced Effects of the resistance Modules the ship go mostly with this Resists they have or can¦t fill the Resistance holes. It would become fare more important to select the right Damage Type to kill them in PVP and even make them very usefull in PVE. Again costs are Gank and being more affected by the other Damagetypes by the reduced Number of Tanking Slots avaidable/reduced Effect off Resistance improveing Modules.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.18 09:23:00 -
[70]
Legion .....
Additional 5% heat per level
Downside might be a 1-2% reduction in laser damage
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:05:00 -
[71]
oversized weapons on a smaller hulls? warp disruption fields on t3 ships? 100% EW immunity ? able to use Covert Ops Cloaking Device? projectile weapons on a gallente cruiser?
wtf ? No thx!
first of all we need to take a good look on the currently existing subsystems ... i for one dont believe that ANYONE is NOT using loki's webifier electronic subsystem instead the other 2 ones ... we dont need more of that subsystems ... spread the bonuses more across the subsystems ccp!!!
anyway, some ideas to stay ontopic:
offensive: tengu & loki: 10% drone dmg, 7,5% drone hitpoints & 5% turret dmg ; legion: 5% missile dmg, 10% missile velocity & 7,5% rof on HAM's proteues: 5% turret dmg & 20% turret optimal
defensive: tengu & loki: 10% armor HP ; 0/0/3 ; ~3500hp base legion & proteus: 10% shield HP ; 0/3/0 ~3500hp base
electronics: all races: racial ew (tp, sd, td, ecm) 10% strength bonus & 7,5% racial ew-drones strength bonus ; -1/2/1 ; +50bw, +75m3
engineering: reduce cycle time of equipped capacitor booster & increase booster charges by 5% per level
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:28:00 -
[72]
Edited by: IceAero on 18/03/2009 12:29:39 What do you think would make the use of the covops cloak more fair?
We already have combat ships like the Pilgrim and Huginn that use them, so I'm not sure how they are such a bad idea here...I'd be more afraid of a Pilgrim or two in a small encounter than ANY T3 ship config as they stand today...
The way I see it is that the current T3 ships setups are not really good enough to get people using them in pvp...they are simply too expensive, don't deal enough damage, are too slow, and have low EHP.
Part of the solution, I believe, is a remote repping bonus. Anyone who has fought the hardest sleeper encounters has seen a few frigates and cruisers remote rep themselves to tank the damage of 4 of 5 battleships. Putting a range/amount bonus on the defensive subsystem, and a slight cap bonus to the reps on an engineering bonus, would get people to start using T3 ships in PVP and especially in groups where they'd see the advantage of using the spider-tanking bonus. This would easily make up for their lack of damage and lack of hit points.
And how is this balanced? By not having any tanking bonuses on the remote-repping defensive subsystem, you make the spider tanked T3 ship weaker on its own, but stronger in a group Plus, as I said above, they really are slow ships...
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Buster Awesomo
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:42:00 -
[73]
Just a few thoughts on what I would like to see as future subsystems for the Loki.
Offensive +25% damage per level with a -12.5 RoF. Give the Loki a massive Alpha but with a reduced damage per sec.
Defensive Armour regeneration time. Allow for armour to regenerate make it long enough so you would have to be sat at a safe spot. Would allow you to re-coupe armour hp if buffer tanked. - n% Reduction in remote armour repair amount per level (not sure about this value)
Propulsion I really like the ideas about Warp core strenght, allow a good chance of warping away from a warp disruptor at lvl 3 and scrambler at lvl 5.
should not effect interdiction spheres or warp disruption filed generators
Engineering 2.5% increase in capacitor booster cap amount per level.
Electronics 99% reduction in Target Painter activation time. Allow the target painter to lock instantly, allow gang faster lock times on the target. Sig radius bonus effecting damage on target would not become effective until "normal lock" has been acquired, ships that have previuosly locked the target would not get the tp bouns until the loki has finished targeting normally, all be it at a reduced time.
Things I really would hate to see.
Any form of cov-ops boost, your going to nerf the current cloaking ships, as uber as it would be to have t3 ships running around cloaked tanking loads and having excellent e-war this would seriously unbalance the current variety of ships.
Allowing strip miners or increase chance at salvaging / hacking mods etc. will only increase the stereotype of t3 as uber carebear ships, the expected costs is pushing t3 this way already don't let it get pushed further.
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:27:00 -
[74]
I really am deadly serious about the missile sig radius/explosion velocity subsystems. there aren't enough ships out there that give those bonuses. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.18 19:20:00 -
[75]
Originally by: IceAero
Originally by: Miner Nine Can we get a T3 subsystem that will block IceAero's posting?
It's pretty bad.
That's so horribly on topic of you :)
How about some constructive criticism?
you could stop backseat-moderating, for one
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Co Chee
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Posted - 2009.03.18 19:58:00 -
[76]
Big dissapointment for me with T3 ships is the Loki's bonus to remote shield repping. Given the CPU requirements of remote shield reps it is very hard to fit them. In contrast the Legion and Proteus get the awesome bonus to remote armor repping.
Any chance of giving the Loki an armor RR bomus to go with its 5% armor resists bonus to give us a choice between armor and shield RRing? Otherwise it is train for Proteus or Legion because Minie don't have this option despite all our famed "flexibility". Probably too much to ask but given the other option is fly another races T3 ship I thought I'd give it a go.
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:22:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Nozh So, Apocrypha is out with 3 subsystems per category, we're now starting our next development cycle where we'll look at the fourth variation. There are already tons of good ideas floating around at the office, but before we proceed we'd like to hear your ideas.
What bonuses would you like to see on the fourth subsystems? -What other subsystems would you use it with? -How does is it differ from the other choices? -Drawbacks when fitted, if any?
Please keep the thread clean and stay on topic.
As much as I can applaud you for forward thinking, T3 isn't really out to the public. I say out to the public because only a few moon barons could afford these things at this time, nor are they stupid enough to fly them around in combat.
In light of this, you are extremely premature on asking questions that only a small few have had the opportunity to even test on a limited environment for a limited time...the test server.
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.19 02:03:00 -
[78]
Tbh, I want Tuxford back and Nozh back to cleaning TomB¦s office.... Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.19 05:54:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Quesa Edited by: Quesa on 18/03/2009 21:29:34
Originally by: CCP Nozh So, Apocrypha is out with 3 subsystems per category, we're now starting our next development cycle where we'll look at the fourth variation. There are already tons of good ideas floating around at the office, but before we proceed we'd like to hear your ideas.
What bonuses would you like to see on the fourth subsystems? -What other subsystems would you use it with? -How does is it differ from the other choices? -Drawbacks when fitted, if any?
Please keep the thread clean and stay on topic.
As much as I can applaud you for forward thinking, T3 isn't really out to the public. I say out to the public because only a few moon barons could afford these things at this time, nor are they stupid enough to fly them around in combat.
In light of this, you are extremely premature on asking for feedback on improvements to a ship type that only a small few have had the opportunity to even test the final revision of these ships in a limited environment for a limited time...the test server.
I think there are many other aspects of the game play that need to be addressed in an expedited manner besides new modules for a ship that nobody has access to.
For instance: -Fuel Pellets, that have been promised for a year now? -Buffing Black Ops so they are worth purchasing instead of a carrier. -Leveling out the ECM playing field. Buffing non-Caldari Recons would be a good start. -UI improvements which have been nothing more than fluff and are still buggy despite your riveting DevBlogs. -THE ABILITY TO CHANGE THE FONT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO GUESS WHAT LETERS/NUMBERS YOUR UI IS DISPLAYING (sorry, pet peeve for me because it seems like something so trivial to implement yet CCP seems to ignore it).
Bottom line, you have to let your player base use those new ships and technologies for a good solid six months before you can get any proper feedback. I don't see any good feedback hitting these boards for at least that long.
this is the best post in this stupid thread
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Aurvundill
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.19 07:08:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Aurvundill on 19/03/2009 07:08:32 For the love of zombie rob zombie. CLOAKING SUBSYSTEMS!
Oh wait, first post had it.
Originally by: IceAero Edited by: IceAero on 18/03/2009 22:32:21 Electronic Subsystems #4 (All Races) Electronic Subsystem Skill Bonus: -98% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device/level CANNOT Fit covert cynosural field generators, but CAN use covert jump portal.
DIFFERENT SENSOR TYPE, [i]very covert =D
3 Mid 1 Low **** 4 Mid (Legion)
(With no high slot, you're forced to drop a turret/launcher to fit the cloak)
Tweak the slots and you're good. :O
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.03.19 08:45:00 -
[81]
I think a subsystem to somehow relate to the new wormholes and it's sleepers would be cool.
Another one would be the ability to revamp the ship into any type of class currently available:
* Cov Ops (warp while cloaked) * Stealth Bomber (sig radius bonus & easy fit for cruise launchers) * Interdictor (ability to use interdiction spheres) * Logistics Triage mode (mini-carrier, but only for remote repping)
etc.
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Marlona Sky
Astroglide X The Foray Project
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Posted - 2009.03.19 09:56:00 -
[82]
How about some targeting side effects. What I mean is lets say someone locks me and I have this particular subsystem on, they get their speed slowed by 50%.
Something like that as an example of a targeted side effect.
I hope I'm not failing too bad. Trying to think outside of the box and all.
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Marlona Sky
Astroglide X The Foray Project
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Posted - 2009.03.19 10:01:00 -
[83]
Maybe something that when your ship goes pop, there is a giant bomb that goes off too. Maybe the equivelent of say 2-3 bombs from a stealth bomber.
Would make solo pvp more interesting.
Its dark and cold outside of the box... anyone out there?
Hello....
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Vrikshaka
0ff-Peak Esoteric Cutthroats
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Posted - 2009.03.19 11:59:00 -
[84]
Covops cloak. It just has to be done.
Don't be paranoid, it won't mean T3 cloakers will be automatically overpowered. Look at the Legion for instance. With the configuration most similar to a passive plate Pilgrim, sure, you get a lot more armor and better resists, but on the other hand the neut bonus isn't as good as on the Pilgrim, the drone bonuses are only the same, and you even end up with one midslot less than on said recon. Ah, and there's no TD bonus either... And on top of that, you will be sacrificing one of these subsystems for the covops cloak sub.
Go for covops cloak. Because it will make for awesomely fun ships to fly. And something new for solo players as well (which doesn't happen often). If some subsystem combo or other ends up creating a ship that outperforms any now existing recon* - so be it! With the price tag (and risk of SP loss), what's wrong with getting slightly better performance out of your pimpmobile?
*Actually they never would, unless a second EW bonus would be added to the primary T3 ewar subsystems first, since all recons have two distinct EW bonuses in combo.
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Tonting
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Posted - 2009.03.19 17:14:00 -
[85]
A way to track non cov ops cloaked ships.
Somthing to help fortify a worm hole from calapsing on you?
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Winters Chill
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.03.19 18:03:00 -
[86]
1.The Expermental Tech Switcheroo
I'd like to see each of the empires allow for new tactics and get out of thier Electronic warfare pigeon hole to create more unpredictability in the battlefield. So I'd like to see the tier 4 engineering subsystems give clockwise map EW bonuses.
For example
Caldari Tier 4 - Gives a bonus to sensor dampering Minmatar Tier 4 - Gives a bonus to ECM Amarr Tier 4 - Gives a bonus to web and/or scramble Gallente Tier 4 - Gives a bonus to Tracking disruption and/or Cap Warfare.
The above list is just an example off my head, basically it could be any combination. Tier 3 right? so this is the most advance tech in eve,state of the cutting edge art. Why not an amarr ECM boat? Why not a Caldari Cap Denial tackler? I feel this would bring a "surprise" aspect to EW rather than "oh looks its a falcon kill it before it jams us".
2. The anti isk sink Cyno ship
Instead of the poor: alt account creation, gonna lost your ship, terrible cyno mechanic, why not allow a tier 4 subsystem a 95% reduction in Cyno activation time. Again tier 3 is state of the art and it (at the moment) looks like they are going to be expensive and rare. The skill loss mechanic is also brutal. Lets get people to fly them as part of a capital spearhead. A 95% or 100% reduction in cyno field creation would make them THE ship to use as a capital scout ship. and a must have item for alliances.
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.03.19 20:48:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 19/03/2009 20:49:21 Remote repair range and cap need reduction would be nice for even more specific RR setups.
Or just simply sig reduction bonus.
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EvilSpork
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:25:00 -
[88]
the legion needs a khanid offensive system
bonuses to both heavy AND heavy assault missiles. dont single it out as only HAM please. possibly a small armor resist bonus as well.
aside from that, i would like to see some unique possibilities and less gimpy slot layouts.
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darkmancer
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Posted - 2009.03.20 01:13:00 -
[89]
Caldari A possibility of a non ******ed blaster ship with an emphasis on range penalty on the sensor range Eg Offensive subsystem + 30% optimal / level +30 Falloff / level +5% Damage -50km sensor range + 400 PG No Drones +5 High +1 Mid
Gallente -Decent railgun platform that (shock horror) actually has a good damage output
Amarr Khaneeds a Khanid (sorry)
Minmatar Difficult one, they need a decent split weapon platform but thats more to do with fixing the present rubbish. Perhaps a dedicated Cloaker tackler: -20% targeting delay after cloaking +100% cloaked velocity / level 3 High 1 mid 2 low (3T , 3M) 25m3 drones
--------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.20 10:25:00 -
[90]
khandid system on legion good
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:01:00 -
[91]
I would love for a subsystem to have high eWar resistance, or even immunity akin to super-capitals.
Drawback: Reduced EHP and DPS - make the T3 into a Recon hunter basically while allowing freedom of movement (unless the bad guys have a HIC). Relatively low targeting range.
Would be used with: MWD sig reduction (will normally go for AB speed, sig is God) Armour/Shield Resistances. Anything that gives midslots - for counter-eWar/defense.
Low DPS and EHP would make it vulnerable but T3 base stats prevent it from insta-popping. It would not pose any significant threat in itself. Lower targeting range should prevent it from becoming a kiting speed freak.
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011000010110110001110100
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Posted - 2009.03.20 17:17:00 -
[92]
COVERT OPS CLOAK SUBSYSTEM
that is all.
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011000010110110001110100
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Posted - 2009.03.20 17:18:00 -
[93]
Edited by: 011000010110110001110100 on 20/03/2009 17:18:05
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Happy Joymaker
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.20 21:31:00 -
[94]
2 suggestions, not going to go into specifics as balancing would be an issue
Cloaking, kinda like a stealth bomber / command ship combo. No bombs, no warping cloaked, but able to move around reasonably while cloaked and minimal targeting delay after decloaking.
Gas / mining specialist kit. The amount of gas mining needed to actually put these ships together, well, it would be an obvious benefit to those who are doing the mining. Large cargo hold (or perhaps a separate hold that can only hold gas, hint hint), 4-5 high slots that are gas miner / utility only, with another 2-3 that can be used for guns, or perhaps a decent drone bay and drone damage bonus (to both defend themselves from sleepers as well as other players). Big CPU reduction to gas miners. ________________________
Happy Happy Joy Joy! |
Ricky Rio
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Posted - 2009.03.20 23:56:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Ricky Rio on 20/03/2009 23:56:52 for the Offensive subsystem how about a "flak battery" weapon control system.
the slot layout would give it 6 missile/turret slots depending on race and then the following bonuses.
Role bonus: able to fit 2 small sized weapons per high power slot (or +100% to small turret damage) (for turret ships) 5% bonus to tracking of small turrets per level 5% bonus to falloff of small turrets per level (for missile ships) 5% bonus to small missile velocity per level 5% bonus to small missile rate of fire per level
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Prometheus Exenthal
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.03.21 04:53:00 -
[96]
don't make a 4th until you can get the first batch right - MY LATEST VIDEO - BATTLE CRUISE |
McDaddy Pimp
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.21 07:58:00 -
[97]
Edited by: McDaddy Pimp on 21/03/2009 08:00:31 How about an indy/exploration subsystem, specialized for w-space
Offensive Bonus: salvaging, gas harvesting and maybe tractor beam Drawbacks : no turret/missile hardpoint
Defensive Bonus: Increased tank, drone bandwidth Drawback: Speed penalty
Electronics Bonus: Increased CPU Bonus: Codebreaker and Analyzer, Gallante/Caldari Analyzer, Ammar/Minnie Codebreaker maybe Drawback : Reduced Scan Resolution and Scan Strength
Engineering Bonus: More cargo capacity Drawback: Less powergrid
Propulsion Bonus: Increased agility (idk lol) Drawback: Decreased speed
The idea here is a ship for ninja salvaging/mining/exploring in w-space, a ship agile enough to run from (slow) hostiles, good enough tank to hold on until the cargo hold is filled with WH gases, and make exploration more fun.
With these 4th subsystem a t3 ship can be fitted for a full fledged indy ship or a semi indy, a mix of combat and "indy" subsystems (for gank ops of coz), like a cruiser size Marauder or a Battlebadger . Now, a small gang of 3-4 cruiser maybe can actually accomplish something in w-space
Mining and probing already have they existing ships, and so are cloakers
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Viggen
Caldari The Lunatic Asylum Notorious Organization of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.03.21 17:21:00 -
[98]
Whatever subsystems come out from this, will we be able to test them on sisi? because as it is now we cant even test 66% of the subsystems already available as they have not been seeded for quite some time.
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.03.23 07:14:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal don't make a 4th until you can get the first batch right
This hits the nail on the head.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:39:00 -
[100]
OK.. someone DARED to propose TARGET PAINTING bonus to a T3 ship!!! AAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems most people want cloaking bonuses...
How about you introduce back some more variation on slots? That was the most interesting part of T3 ships before you removed it. Maybe 1 subsystem that INVERTS all the mids and lows :P
Wil give opinion on loki only since its the only one i can fly.
Also give loki defensive a 10% shield boost per level one. Give a tempest/rupture/hurricane style module back to loki.
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:59:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Seishi Maru OK.. someone DARED to propose TARGET PAINTING bonus to a T3 ship!!! AAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep, I did. I dared.
everything you know about PvP is wrong, btw. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:04:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Seishi Maru OK.. someone DARED to propose TARGET PAINTING bonus to a T3 ship!!! AAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep, I did. I dared.
everything you know about PvP is wrong, btw.
oh and seriously, NO COVOPS CLOAK
God damn people, the entire point of these ships is that they're supposed to be a customizable alternative to tech 2, not a complete, more-powerful replacement. Stealth-bomber style cloaking with a speed bonus could work, but for the love of god, covops would just be ludicrous. Next you'll be asking for Heavy interdictor-style bubble emitters.
Seriously, go back and read my first contribution to this thread, right there on page 1. THOSE are balanced, considered subsystems that don't do anything massively exotic, but do fit and would work well to allow tech 3 do it's own, militarily useful thing without copying the functionality of existing tech 2 ships. that's what we need, not covops cloaks or crazy cross-racial abilities.
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.23 15:42:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Seishi Maru OK.. someone DARED to propose TARGET PAINTING bonus to a T3 ship!!! AAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep, I did. I dared.
everything you know about PvP is wrong, btw.
oh and seriously, NO COVOPS CLOAK
God damn people, the entire point of these ships is that they're supposed to be a customizable alternative to tech 2, not a complete, more-powerful replacement. Stealth-bomber style cloaking with a speed bonus could work, but for the love of god, covops would just be ludicrous. Next you'll be asking for Heavy interdictor-style bubble emitters.
Seriously, go back and read my first contribution to this thread, right there on page 1. THOSE are balanced, considered subsystems that don't do anything massively exotic, but do fit and would work well to allow tech 3 do it's own, militarily useful thing without copying the functionality of existing tech 2 ships. that's what we need, not covops cloaks or crazy cross-racial abilities.
I know TP are useful but people do not need more than a VIGIL for that. its stupid to waste a T3 ship on that! We have vigil, hyena, Rapier, bellicose, huggin already with TP bonus. And the only one worth using is the vigil!
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:47:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 24/03/2009 10:48:22 A potential path of improvement for Tech 3 ships lies in changing the way each race's electronics warfare abilities are handled, and the fourth subsystems could be a good route to achieve this.
The first step is to make the racial electronics system bonuses weak. For a Minmatar example, one electronics system provides better webbing and painting, one provides speed optimizations (I know, bear with me), and one provides enhanced targeting and remote repair abilities. By default, none of these bonuses would be super strong. The Webbing and Painting bonus for instance, should probably be a mere 3% per level range and effectiveness bonus.
To get the full effect, one would employ the fourth tiers of modules, which convey the full effect of the electronic systems bonuses. A tier 4 Loki propulsion module would increase a 2% per level speed bonus into a 7% per level speed bonus. A fourth tier engineering module could provide the magic 20% per level webbing and painter bonus.
With this way, potentially over-powered designs can be prevented by providing lesser fitting abilities than their other tier counterparts.
The opportunity is here to make the currently lackluster tech 3 subsystems much better than they are now without creating extremely overpowered designs from their electronic warfare bonuses; please take advantage of it.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:32:00 -
[105]
Defensive subsystem: Allows to fit Siege Module !! Come on that is for players with balls of plutonium!
Offensive module: 5 launchers. Torpedo Launchers PG reduction of 90%
Eletronics: Allow to be Bridged by a Black ops (that by itself would be a huuge boost to black ops)
Engineering: Cap boosters efficiency 50% extra.
On propulsion: STOP WITH USELES STUFF like 5% AB per level that is ALWAYS worse than 5% speed!!!! That same STUPID mistake was made moving the implants of MWD bonus to smae slot as the speed bonus. The MWD bonus one is ALWAYS worse!!! Do not add anythign completely useless liek that anymore.
AND CHANGE the AB bonus to 15% per level!
------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:52:00 -
[106]
Hey!
Sorry for not being very vocal on the forums, I have been reading them, but haven't really given myself time to post. Here's a small update.
Note: bonuses might change around slightly but you should get the general idea and goal of each subsystem.
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
4th Electronic Subsystem:
A simple CPU bonus to scan probe launchers, allowing you to fit an expanded probe launcher with ease, along with a nice 10% increase to scan strength of probes, making it an very good scanning platform. In addition to this they'll give a tractor beam range / velocity bonus.
These are in authoring right now, so you can expect to see them on Singularity very soon. I'm working on getting the subsystems re-seeded, should happen very soon.
Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.
Comments!
Nozh Game Designer CCP Games |
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:12:00 -
[107]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Comments!
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
Not sure how a reduced agility penalizes this subsytem - I love the basic idea, but agilty is typically associated with getting aligned and out of gate camps - which with this subsystem you're immune to anyway. Are you applying this to scamblers / warp disruptors or just 'sphere' effects from dictors?
Quote:
4th Electronic Subsystem:
A simple CPU bonus to scan probe launchers, allowing you to fit an expanded probe launcher with ease, along with a nice 10% increase to scan strength of probes, making it an very good scanning platform. In addition to this they'll give a tractor beam range / velocity bonus.
Awesome idea this one, but is the tractor beam the best choice for a bonus? Id rather see a bonus to other profession slots like hacking or archeology here.
The other bonuses look great. As an Amarr pilot I feel a bit disappointed that we get the rather naff bonus to cap use for the cloaking subsystem, Id rather see a single damage bonus and leave the pilot to sort out the cap issues.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:16:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Cailais
Not sure how a reduced agility penalizes this subsytem - I love the basic idea, but agilty is typically associated with getting aligned and out of gate camps - which with this subsystem you're immune to anyway. Are you applying this to scamblers / warp disruptors or just 'sphere' effects from dictors?
Interdictor Bubbles, Heavy Interdictor Bubbles and Mobile Warp Disruptors...
The agility penalty makes you a bit more vulnerable to targeted warp scramblers or disruptors.
Nozh Game Designer CCP Games |
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:36:00 -
[109]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Cailais
Not sure how a reduced agility penalizes this subsytem - I love the basic idea, but agilty is typically associated with getting aligned and out of gate camps - which with this subsystem you're immune to anyway. Are you applying this to scamblers / warp disruptors or just 'sphere' effects from dictors?
Interdictor Bubbles, Heavy Interdictor Bubbles and Mobile Warp Disruptors...
The agility penalty makes you a bit more vulnerable to targeted warp scramblers or disruptors.
Ah yes that makes a lot more sense. A nice bonus that could be applicable to a 'hit and run' cruiser, or a blockade running ship.
Some really interesting subsystems here. Subsystem V could be a trickier subject - Ive noticed a few comments so far noting that the T3 ships dont do anything 'new' in pure mechanics terms (e.g HICs brought in the warp disruption field) - maybe this would be an option for Subsystem V.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Incantare
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:01:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Incantare on 24/03/2009 17:07:02
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! "Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
Much <3 for that.
Quote:
4th Offensive subsystem 4th Defensive Subsystem 4th Engineering Subsystem
These are awesome choices and beyond what I expected.
I'm not exited about the warp disruption field immunity bonus but I'm sure it'll appeal to some people, likewise the probe/tractor bonus should please those who have been asking for non-combat t3 subsystems.
Overall I'm really liking these. The only idea I'm disapointed not seeing implemented is a subsystem that protects from e-war. Complete immunity or a % reduction on e-war effects would make for a good subsystem. Here's to hoping for the fifth ones.
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:10:00 -
[111]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
Do you people never learn from prior mistakes? Have another look at ships like maller and prophecy and ask yourself why they are so damn crappy. I just don't get it. Can you even be serious? Give us a damage bonus and no cap bonus if its necessary to let one thing go.
Generally speaking with those (ofc probably totally overpowered) subsystems t3 ships might even be fun. However with such unparalleled subsystems you basically make the already existing ones (nearly) obsolete. Good thing that for once the no solopwnmobile rule doesn't make you errm nerf the **** out of it even prior to release - well except for the legion ofc. (sorry to put it bluntly - no offense intended)
--
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:25:00 -
[112]
Heavy interdictors, ver. 2. Everyone will be flying cloaked gankmobile now... And no, price will not justify the sheer OP of the CO cloak on battleship. (In terms of pure tank and firepower, T3 pretty much comparable to them) -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:29:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Tonto Auri Heavy interdictors, ver. 2. Everyone will be flying cloaked gankmobile now... And no, price will not justify the sheer OP of the CO cloak on battleship. (In terms of pure tank and firepower, T3 pretty much comparable to them)
The cov Ops cloak subsystem has a limited number of high slots - and limited bonus (or in Amarrs case no bonus) to weapon damage. So how this subsystem enables a 'gank mobile' is somewhat obscure.
Also there's no heavy interdictor bonus here - its the opposite.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:39:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Cailais The cov Ops cloak subsystem has a limited number of high slots - and limited bonus (or in Amarrs case no bonus) to weapon damage. So how this subsystem enables a 'gank mobile' is somewhat obscure.
Also there's no heavy interdictor bonus here - its the opposite.
Looks you haven't been in lowsec lately... every first pirte are flying heavy interdictor in case of sheer amount of unjustified bonuses. Cloaked T3 will take the same niche and will be even more powerful. Absence of weapon damage esily amendable by native resists (less mudules could be used for tank -> more room for damage mods) -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:53:00 -
[115]
Cloaking subsystem should be Electronics 4 IMO
- REGULAR cloak, not CovOps, bonused Stealth Bomber alike
- bonus CPU for probe launcher and scanning strength (could be simple CPU addition or CPU reduction - depends if you want it to have option for pure combat ship or not)
- Jump Calibration 2, Ability to fit CO beacon
- Tractor range/velocity bonus (+20%/level of sub may be)
- 1 high slot bonus would be enough. (if ever need - doubt that, better NOT)
That way, you have 1. Not OP cruiser. Similarly to SB, it's good if used right, but not so much good solo. 2. Leaving choice of fitting to the pilot. Fit full rack of guns +cloak? Spare slots for prober? Limiting highslots layout imposing high restriction for fitting, enough to not afraid of using it as Electronics instead of Offensive sub. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Alexander Knott
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:00:00 -
[116]
So with these subsystems I can create a covops cloaking ship that is immune to bubbles? Doesn't that trip any warning alarms?
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musgrattio
H A V O C Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:29:00 -
[117]
Agreed, don't nerf amarr so hard!!!!!! Give amarr a 5% dmg bonus, not some crappy cap bonus. We can deal with the cap on our own.
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musgrattio
H A V O C Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:33:00 -
[118]
Edited by: musgrattio on 24/03/2009 18:33:39 Also, just scrap the idea of the immunity to bubbles please. All it does is allow players with lots of isk to have unkillable ships. There is no counter for a cov ops cloaking ship that isn't caught by bubbles.
edit: like posted above, make the propulsion bonus the ability to be bridged by black ops.
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Tarminic
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:45:00 -
[119]
I really like what you've put here, but there are two basic changes I'd like to see:
Heat Bonuses: Duration bonuses for heat make heat very boring, in my opinion. Any heat bonuses should be to the effectiveness of overloaded modules (this is coded as one of the wormhole anomaly effects, so I know you guys can do it, hehe), as duration makes heat more boring.
Scan Probe Bonuses: I very much like this, but I don't like the tractor range/speed bonus. Why, you ask? Because it's completely useless for anything other than wrecks! I would prefer to see something along these lines: All hulls: Bonus to tractor beams Gallente: 5% Archeology bonus Caldari: 5% Hacking Bonus Minmatar: 5% Salvage bonus Amarr: Not sure here, maybe an additional tractor beam bonus?
Otherwise, very good stuff. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:50:00 -
[120]
Edited by: IceAero on 24/03/2009 18:50:58
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey!
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
I'm all for this, as long as you let the warfare link affect your OWN ship as well as those receiving a booster from you...
Leave's you way too vulnerable otherwise, these aren't fleet command ships with amazing tanks and hp buffers.
EDIT: I still miss my remote-repping range bonus idea
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:11:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Tarminic
Scan Probe Bonuses: I very much like this, but I don't like the tractor range/speed bonus. Why, you ask? Because it's completely useless for anything other than wrecks! I would prefer to see something along these lines: All hulls: Bonus to tractor beams Gallente: 5% Archeology bonus Caldari: 5% Hacking Bonus Minmatar: 5% Salvage bonus Amarr: Not sure here, maybe an additional tractor beam bonus? Otherwise, very good stuff.
We did look at mini-profession bonuses but decided to scrap them. We didn't really have enough of them and we believe they belong on a smaller/cheaper vessel.
Originally by: IceAero I still miss my remote-repping range bonus idea
This came up. In the end we just came to the conclusion that un-bonused remote armor repairers / shield transporters range was just too short and not really worth it. We could remedy this by boosting the module base stats, but we'd have to decrease Logistic ship bonuses etc. its been added to my todo list.
I must say though the remote repairing tech 3 setups I've been experimenting with are pretty damn good, despite their lack of range. 2 guys working together can easily reach a 700 dps absorption rate tank, cap sustainable.
Nozh Game Designer CCP Games |
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Tarminic
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:25:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Tarminic on 24/03/2009 19:26:34
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Tarminic
Scan Probe Bonuses: I very much like this, but I don't like the tractor range/speed bonus. Why, you ask? Because it's completely useless for anything other than wrecks! I would prefer to see something along these lines: All hulls: Bonus to tractor beams Gallente: 5% Archeology bonus Caldari: 5% Hacking Bonus Minmatar: 5% Salvage bonus Amarr: Not sure here, maybe an additional tractor beam bonus? Otherwise, very good stuff.
We did look at mini-profession bonuses but decided to scrap them. We didn't really have enough of them and we believe they belong on a smaller/cheaper vessel.
Fair enough. I would argue, however, that a tractor beam bonus is no more productive than a mini-profession bonus only because you can only use tractor beams on wrecks. Not useless, mind you, but it's niche feels too small compared to scanner bonuses, which is useful both in combat and exploration.
Instead of a tractor beam bonus of any kind, how about additional high or mid slots to give these ships the flexibility to fit exploration-related modules and tractors/salvagers? Just food for thought, thanks for the response.
EDIT: Can you comment on using a heat effectiveness bonus instead of a heat duration bonus? ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:43:00 -
[123]
Edited by: IceAero on 24/03/2009 19:46:41
Originally by: CCP Nozh
This came up. In the end we just came to the conclusion that un-bonused remote armor repairers / shield transporters range was just too short and not really worth it. We could remedy this by boosting the module base stats, but we'd have to decrease Logistic ship bonuses etc. its been added to my todo list.
I must say though the remote repairing tech 3 setups I've been experimenting with are pretty damn good, despite their lack of range. 2 guys working together can easily reach a 700 dps absorption rate tank, cap sustainable.
WOW! Now that made my day...
4.8km/6.0km/8.4km is agreeably very small considering normal combat ranges.
8km is fine with battleships, but cruisers and frigates need to move around to get in range and keep their transverse velocity up. Keeping your buddies within 15-20km isn't hard if you know you need to do it, but 6km is nuts.
Any hint as to your ideas for new ranges? Maybe give them a uniform range? (18km for T2 and 14km for T1 comes to mind...)
This would actually get people using remote reps in normal combat outside of a blob of BSs! Plus, Logistics ships would still be useful.
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:08:00 -
[124]
ONe of my main criticisms has been in order for the t3 economy to work, the ships and there subsystems would need to provide capabilities and bonuses that where not already accessible through t1 - t2. These subsystems seem to come some way into remedying that.
I'd need to have a look at the slot layouts to make a firm decision however my only point so far is that some of the existing subsystems need work...
Proteus Propulsion Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to warp speed per level 15% reduction in capacitor need when initiating warp per level
5% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level.
Loki Defensive Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in signature radius per level.
Loki Offensive Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire per level 7.5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level
Tengu Propulsion Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to warp speed per level 15% reduction in capacitor need when initiating warp per level
Legion Propulsion Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level.
Unless your willing on bumping up the signature radius reduction amount to something resembling that of which tackler inceterceptors get then on there own, especially as a defensive module, there not going to be very appealing and narrow the options down during assembly. I'd recommend even more additional slots, increased cargo capacity, mass reduction or increased drone bay as compensation although i'd much rather a re-think on 5% signature reduction bonuses as the defensive subsystem (in a land which tengu's have 36k shields)
The warp speed bonuses are cute, however, unless mechanics can be changed so that max warp speed also effects acceleration then the main idea is rather ineffectual. The cap reduction can be achieved by reducing the ships mass. Rather this subsystem was binned, failing that, +cargo bay or -mass or +2 lows.
And common, split weapons systems? Yes, you can have 7 weapons fitted onto your ship, but the dps is more or less the same as heavy damage fit stratcruisers (because 3 damage mods = 6 split weapon damage mods). I would rather see a base 4/4 turrets/launcher set and the drone bay increased to 50/100.
I would like to see a 5th engineering subsystem with logistics -capacitor and +range bonuses with -cap recharge, speed or agility and as far as left field, subsystems that made me immune to negative environmental effects... Any news on how the 5th subsystems are going? ____
My Blog Is Awesome
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:49:00 -
[125]
Do like these bonuses.
Very much loving the bubble-proof and covops cloak bonuses. Probing bonus - meh, its got some awesome potential but also a bit carebear. I will probably use it some of the time, which is the point.
The heat bonus ought to be more interesting eg. +heat effect.
Except the gang warfare links - Loki isnt THAT much more mobile than a Sleipnir or Claymore that we really needed a "mobile link" ship that much. Maybe I'm just selfish because I dont have any real leadership skills? Just think its a bit boring.
The bubble-proof bonus is in danger of being overpowered vs the other propulsion subs, purely because they dont have that great bonuses (certainly on the proteus). It reamins to be seen how good they are vs a slot. Certainly I think in 0.0 I'd rather lose the slot.
This is going to sound a bit cheeky but where are 5th subsystem? I mean, its only taken a couple of weeks to come up with no. 4, and presumably there's a reasonable amount of art assets for 4 and 5 already as they were originally planned. I think we should be looking at 4 and 5 subsystems in Apoc 1.1, because then awesome would rain down.
_______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 21:06:00 -
[126]
Edited by: IceAero on 24/03/2009 21:09:21
Originally by: El Yatta
The heat bonus ought to be more interesting eg. +heat effect.
Now that would be awesome :)
Originally by: El Yatta
Except the gang warfare links - Loki isnt THAT much more mobile than a Sleipnir or Claymore that we really needed a "mobile link" ship that much. Maybe I'm just selfish because I dont have any real leadership skills? Just think its a bit boring.
I'm with you on this one, but he said the bonus for the warefare link mod would be higher, high than a command ship I assume, so that would make things a little interesting.
I think if the link affected your own ship's stats it would definitely give people a reason to use it. It gives a LOT more variety to T3 ships also!
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.24 21:51:00 -
[127]
Ok, looks good overall, but a few comments:
1) Covert ops cloak. With only one damage bonus, and greatly reduced ewar ability, is this really going to be worth it on a ship that's so absurdly expensive? Removing a weapon slot is fair, but with only one damage bonus you're probably going to be out-gunned by the awesome laser/blaster gank Pilgrim.
And why is this an offensive system, anyway? How about instead, make it an electronics subsystem and simply have it give -1 turret/launcher slot?
2) Gang mods. Will depend on the final stats, IMO, but like the covops cloak, this would make more sense as an electronics subsystem rather than defensive. The big concern is of course fitting (and it will need some, to fit gang mods on any plausible setup): hopefully the gang mod is given in the form of +1 high slot, -100% gang mod fitting requirements, not +200 grid/+50 CPU that will be abused on setups with no gang mods at all.
3) Pirate subsystems (see my first post in this thread). Why not let the pirates get in on the T3 fun? Why not move the covops cloak to electronics, and give me a Sanshas offensive system for my Tengu? I will love you forever if you do this! -----------
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Lumy
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:33:00 -
[128]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey!
Sorry for not being very vocal on the forums, I have been reading them, but haven't really given myself time to post. Here's a small update.
Note: bonuses might change around slightly but you should get the general idea and goal of each subsystem.
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
4th Electronic Subsystem:
A simple CPU bonus to scan probe launchers, allowing you to fit an expanded probe launcher with ease, along with a nice 10% increase to scan strength of probes, making it an very good scanning platform. In addition to this they'll give a tractor beam range / velocity bonus.
These are in authoring right now, so you can expect to see them on Singularity very soon. I'm working on getting the subsystems re-seeded, should happen very soon.
Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.
Comments!
1. All bonuses are... too uniform. There is no distinction between races. It's like you're not even trying anymore. 2. Covops cloaking offensive subsystem: I guess it's the only way to balance it. I'm just wondering why would anyone use this over recon. Maybe some cloaking scanning warfare link wimpy ... thing. 3. Defensive subsystem: Interesting idea. Worth looking into it. 4. Propulsion subsystem: You can do that invulnerability thing? By the way, why not just give it low base agility and agility bonus (oh wai... somene could notice it's the same). 5. Engineering subsystem: Meh, cheap one. 6. Electronics subsystem: That's much better. 7. Mine ideas at 1st page are so much better anyway : - Offensive subsystems have each one different racial flavor. - Combination of propulsion and electronic subsystems gives you decent DPS platform for black ops gang. - Engineering subsystems are giving you decent bonus for active/remote tankers. At least some racial flavor. - Defensive subsystem solves the "too short" problems for cruiser RR gangs. At least some racial flavor.
... let's hope some of them get used for 5th batch.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:34:00 -
[129]
I want to speak up in defense of the tractor bonus. I want my T3 salvage boat, and there hasn't been a lot of hope before now. Finally there's a way to improve tractor performance on something smaller and more agile than a battleship.
(For a salvager, the problem is outrunning the 500 m/s tractor speed and losing your loot can 20 klicks back, which is enormously annoying. Putting tractor bonuses on big fat slow Marauders and Orcas only(!) has been a horrible taunt.) ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 23:01:00 -
[130]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
This better make the ship black!
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.24 23:04:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Lijhal on 24/03/2009 23:05:36
Originally by: CCP Nozh
4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
FAIL
Originally by: CCP Nozh
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
a o.k. subsystem ... i bet you'll get only bonuses if you are in a fleet ? if so, this subsystem will be the last i fit on my loki...
Originally by: CCP Nozh
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
you're going to tell me i can build a t3 ship, able to warp cloaked and unstopable from bubbles with 110k effective hp ? comon, this cant be true ...
Originally by: CCP Nozh
4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
a o.k bonus
Originally by: CCP Nozh
4th Electronic Subsystem:
A simple CPU bonus to scan probe launchers, allowing you to fit an expanded probe launcher with ease, along with a nice 10% increase to scan strength of probes, making it an very good scanning platform. In addition to this they'll give a tractor beam range / velocity bonus.
another o.k. bonuses ... people screamed to long for a t3 salvager
Conclusion: Disappoint about t3 ships ... i thought i could build a caldari-missile-armor boat with apochrypha ... seems i dreamed to much :(
QUOTE from FanFest 2008 "thess are not only fency graphics! this is total customizibilty in fitting which generates ships with different amount of slot, stats, hitpoints etc"
Sorry, but i dont see it ... good luck
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 23:16:00 -
[132]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We did look at mini-profession bonuses but decided to scrap them. We didn't really have enough of them and we believe they belong on a smaller/cheaper vessel.
True, but there are other options for 'industrial' sub-systems:
- Internal refinery - Internal production facilities - Internal lab facilities - In space fitting facilities (like the Orca) - Expanded Cargo capacity - Bonuses to Mining, mining drones, mining gang links - Bonuses to gas harvesting, archeology, hacking, salvaging
I wouldn't argue that all these could be fitted to one hull type - instead enabling a group of players working in concert to mimic the industrial / production characteristics of a POS or station.
Personally I think such subsystems would have beneficial aspects to populating .0 space without the need for a POS (and the inherent "POSBorefare"), would provide 'small scale objectives' whilst keeping the overall scale of operations relatively small (these are only cruiser sized vessels after all).
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.25 00:01:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Cailais - Internal refinery - Internal production facilities - Internal lab facilities
If you mean something like that idiocy of a Lolqual, thanks, no need.
Quote: - In space fitting facilities (like the Orca)
Could be useful, even without corp hangar. Or especially without corp hangar... -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Dr Resheph
Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY
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Posted - 2009.03.25 00:30:00 -
[134]
The covert ops bonus is a huge mistake. Mechanics like this should not be proliferated so recklessly. Not just because you've made Force Recons mostly or completely redundant, but because Force Recons were already pushing the upper limit of how combat-capable such ships should be. This is power creep in its ugliest form, and you're caving to player demands without providing a justifiable reason for why we need even more cloak warfare. Especially in a game that has no counter and is trying to move away from local intel.
The only reason you people would consider doing this is because you're insecure about the relatively disinterested attitude players have towards T3 and its adoption. Why does it have to sound awesome and marketable? It's not your job to sell anything, these aren't used cars.
Next, the scanning cpu bonus is just ridiculous because I don't agree with the fitting requirements of the Integrated launcher to begin with. If dedicated scanning ships get strength bonus to make them better at it, then fine. But there is no reason the fittings shouldn't be 60tf instead of 220tf. Deadspace is the new standard now that belts are nearly phased out, and making a safespot has never required special hardware.
So many ships in EVE have utility highs that can only be used for cap warfare. If you're in a small gang or fighting solo, you don't have the luxury of covert ops alts. I'd rather have the opportunity to spend more time scanning someone than sit around powerless.
Lastly, the bubble immunity bonus shows you have some room for creativity still, but it's fairly ridiculous because a) bubbles need an overhaul and b) need to be available in all areas of space/combat before you go ahead and design entire ships around evasion. People mostly fear bubbles for what it does to your chances of escaping a podding, for which this bonus does nothing. And simply flying T3 means you lose skillpoints on top of your usual implants. Therefore a 'risk minimization' bonus is pretty ironic and hypocritical.
Unrelated to 4th tier subsystems, I make the following requests:
- no skillpoint loss penalty if destruction takes place in WH space - full immunity from positive and negative environmental effects in WH space
That should get interest going.
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 01:54:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Dr Resheph The covert ops bonus is a huge mistake. Mechanics like this should not be proliferated so recklessly. Not just because you've made Force Recons mostly or completely redundant, but because Force Recons were already pushing the upper limit of how combat-capable such ships should be. This is power creep in its ugliest form, and you're caving to player demands without providing a justifiable reason for why we need even more cloak warfare. Especially in a game that has no counter and is trying to move away from local intel.
Cloaked warfare is and remains a valid tactic, in its simplest form it typifies guerilla style / small gang combat (and as such is the flip side of blob warfare) - and is well suited for the Crusier class of ships. As its selected on an Offensive subsystem you sacrifice damage for stealth which is only proper in my view.
Cloaks are, in essence, their own counter as whilst cloaked you cant inflict any actual damage only a psychological impact.
I dont believe the Force Recons are made redundant with this subsystem, they have EW capabilities which the T3 vessel will not have unless specifically fitted for such (reducing its damage capabilities even further - probably to a point where they are notably less effective than a Force Recon. Indeed by your argument you could suggest that all T2 ships are made redundant by T3, just on the basis that they can mimic T2 capabilities (i.e damage output, tank etc).
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 01:58:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Cailais - Internal refinery - Internal production facilities - Internal lab facilities
If you mean something like that idiocy of a Lolqual, thanks, no need.
Quote: - In space fitting facilities (like the Orca)
Could be useful, even without corp hangar. Or especially without corp hangar...
Id suggest elements of the Rorqual / Orca could be mimic'd - perhaps only achieving the capabilities of these ships as a group rather than an individual ship. Also to my knowledge the neither the Rorqual or the Orca can actually produce items in space.
Of course Corps might combine the capabilities of T3 Industry variants with the Orca/Rorq (and other indy ships such as blockade runners, exhumers etc) enabling nomadic or roaming industry.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Arimathea Anthalas
Corp 1 Allstars PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.03.25 05:50:00 -
[137]
Finally a reason to fly T3. Thanks.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.03.25 06:08:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 25/03/2009 06:10:40 1) cov ops cloak - NO!!! particularly with combat probes in mind. the prowler should remain the only other ship besides recons and cov frigs that can probe and warp to the result cloaked (yes... epic lulz) 2) warfare links... - won't be used, especially not with this little CPU on all of the t3 hulls to "extend" it with command processors. but BCs could use that strength bonus, hold on to that thought. 3) immunity to graviton stuff - nohohoho, not with the current sniping capabilities 4) even less heat - *shrug* if you're already out of ideas and cba to review the heat-buildup first... 5) combat prober - i wouldn't mind the fitting reduction - but no strength bonus (and certainly not 10%/lvl aka par with t2). repair combat probing while it's still warm instead of attaching excuses to it.
but to be constructive aswell; stuff we dont have yet: - 10%/lvl extra calibration (get your probe bonus by being able to fit 3 gravity rigs, or fit funky t2 weapon rigs if you have the cash -.-) probably an engineering sub - some joy with smartbombs, 'cause drones are slowly getting out of hand - offensive sub, i guess -.- - bonus to remote eccm, remote sensor, tracking links, and where's the anti-web those strain NPCdrones used to have :D - drug bonus x_X - putting the gist back into logistics |
Captain Campion
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.03.25 07:20:00 -
[139]
Warp Disruption immunity is overpowered. Invulnerable t3 ships?
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.25 08:42:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 25/03/2009 08:47:27
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey!
Sorry for not being very vocal on the forums, I have been reading them, but haven't really given myself time to post. Here's a small update.
Note: bonuses might change around slightly but you should get the general idea and goal of each subsystem.
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
Heavy assualt missiles aren't used much. The additionnal damage over heavy missiles doesn't compensate for the vastly decreased range, and they do less damage than heavies against small targets. So a bonus only to heavy assault isn't only half a bonus, but the least interesting half, as well.
Too bad, a bonus to EM missile damage instead would have make the Legion an interesting alternative to the Tengu for npcing or pvp. With that bonus it's useless.
Quote:
4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
I think there's enough cloaking crap in the game already. What happened to the "you have to take risks if you want a fight" philosophy? A bonus to decloack all enemies who get too close would be far better...
Quote:
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
Only one command mod, but I suspect you could add command links to fit more of them. Won't that make fleet command ships obsolete?
Quote:
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
Apocrypha: The return of Warp Core Stabs ships...
Quote:
4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
Unless it's a really big bonus, meh. You'd better reduce the overloading bonus of MWDs if that means insane time overloaded (75% with skills+cruiser bonus+subsystem bonus?)
Quote:
4th Electronic Subsystem:
A simple CPU bonus to scan probe launchers, allowing you to fit an expanded probe launcher with ease, along with a nice 10% increase to scan strength of probes, making it an very good scanning platform. In addition to this they'll give a tractor beam range / velocity bonus.
sound ok.
Quote:
Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.
Comments!
Without a lot of tweaking on your part (and the sooner, the better, don't wait until everyone wrote off WH exploration as only a gadget), that's not going to happen. Sure, the price for cruisers and subsystems will go down for lack of interest at insane prices. It will go down to the point where production make you lose isks, which will kill the price for components, which in turn will reduce WH profitability to the point it's not worth doing... ------------------------------------------
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McDaddy Pimp
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.25 09:23:00 -
[141]
Yeah, like that guy said before, t3 needs to bring new capabilities, bonus and tactics to pvp in order for ppl actually want to fly them.
Just throwing ideas here
- De-cloaking capability, maybe a smartbomb like AOE decloaker
- Profession related bonus (archeology, hacking etc)
- Remote e-war boosting
- E-war immunity of each "rival" race, Ammar immune to webs, Minnie immune to Neuts, Caldari immune to damps and god for bid Gallente immune to ECM. Well, Gallente could be a bit OP in that case, maybe increase scan strength
- Super-stealth bonus, not showing/delayed in local for t3 pilots? hehehe
- Bubble immunity seems nice though
- heat damage reduction AND increase efficiency
- Was going to suggest torps, but you guys already did that with Stealth Bombers
- Increased on-board scanner range?
*and pls, no more cloaks
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:03:00 -
[142]
Originally by: CCP Nozh 4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
Let me get this straight, you want to give the T3 ships, with all the firepower, gank, tank, resistances and slots a Covert Ops cloak, but you're not thinking about giving it to the Stealth Bomber first, wtf? Give it to the ship classes who are supposed to be stealthy before giving it to the Feature of the Month. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:44:00 -
[143]
I like new subsystems, but one thing distract me very much. Cov-Op cloak is OK, even buble immunity is OK imho but Cov-Op cloak plus buble immunity is NOT ok. Buble is the only way to try to stop stealth ship. Uncatchable ships is bad.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:06:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 25/03/2009 11:09:01 finally some ideas that are really "different" nice
covert cloaking bubble immune ships doesnt sound overpowered to me, it will have no dps to speak of with its 4 single bonused turrets and prolly no/very small drone bay, not to mention the total slot count will end up considerably less then recons
also it is not uncatchable really, with the nerfed agility you have a chance to decloak and point it if you are competent enough question is how severe the bubble immunity agility nerf will be, if it is really harsh then I see that subsystem ONLY being useful in conjunction with the covert subsystem
question: is the covert subsystem also enabling the ship to use covert jump bridges?
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Casey Windstrom
Gallente Nanobots Industries Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:29:00 -
[145]
I would love to see one of the new T3 subsystems make the T3 ships able to be a scanship. Having a tougher, more reliable scanship that could actually do something other than just scan would be very, very nice. I'm not talking a scan ship that is UBER... I just want something where I can go into the combat site WITH my corp mates and fight along side of them, rather than sitting on the sidelines watching the action while I sit... and scan... and scan... and scan. They value the hell out of me, but I feel left out in the cold.
One of the origional writeups for Apocrypha mentioned having new 'science' ships. This seems to have been dropped sadly. Can us science types get some love of some sort? I primarily play 1 toon, and it's a researcher/manufactuerer with some recon skills and high scan skills. I'd like to be useful in something other than just an Arazu or Helios, thanks!
Casey
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Jettisoned Can
Jenova's Witnesses
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:42:00 -
[146]
Adding Khanid system - good
Cov ops offensive - bad There are only 3 systems that provide a purpose to the ship. Electronics can provide EW, defensive can provide logistics, offensive can provide offense. (or EW in the Tengu's case) By putting cloaking on the offensive systems, you limit anyone who wants to use it to a sub-par force recon. You lose the ability to have decent offense because you can't choose which offensive systems you have. You can't do logistics since there is no logistics range bonus, thus keeping you within decloaking range of the ship you want to rep. So the only ship role you are left with is the electronics subsystem's EW system. Consider moving the cloaking subsystem to ANY other system. Putting it on the offensive system pigeon-holes it too much.
Warfare link defensive - ok, not great Won't survive long if people figure out you are bonusing your fleet and don't have a defensive bonus. Decent idea, but not much purpose. Consider moving it to electronics or engineering or removing it.
Bubble immunity propulsion - bad, bad, bad, absolutely terrible idea When paired with a cov-ops cloak it is an immune transport. The only way for this to be balanced would require it to not be able to be paired with a cloaking bonus. Please remove it, or at the very least, put it on the same subsystem type as the cloaking bonus so that they cannot be paired.
Heat engineering - good Somewhat original bonus on a system that makes sense.
Probe/tractor electronics - bland Strange combination, but I suppose it's fine. There are so many other options for electronics systems that it seems like a waste. Would it at least add a high so that you don't have to sacrifice a weapon to fit the probe launcher or tractor beam? (obviously you'd still have to sacrifice a weapon if you wanted both)
Overall - bad You're homogenizing the races again. All races are getting almost the exact same thing on every one of these new subsystems. There is no racial flair. _________________________ Did you really not have enough room for me? I'm only 1m¦. |
Kaileen Starsong
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:55:00 -
[147]
2All people complaining about gangmod section being useless - you don't use them anyway Good to see GAMs getting introduced.
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Vrikshaka
0ff-Peak Esoteric Cutthroats
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:05:00 -
[148]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Here's a small update.
Win.
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Azuse
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:10:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Azuse on 25/03/2009 13:11:12 "Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected"
Firstly, don't get me wrong, i would love something like this. Problem, eve is always about the element of risk, taking longer to warp doesn't matter if you can't be stopped but more over, this breaks every single value & mechanic the game is built upon. It removes all risk, makes itself the only option for travelling, practically becomes the i win button.
Do you remember what it used to be like when every vaga had stabs with no drawback, what do you think will happen with these ships if you suddenly give them a stab with no counter, do you think any slot/agility drawback will be heeded or imply ignored when a pilot knows he can't be stopped? Give another ss the ability to pin these ships (reducing the risk but increasing it against other t3) or something
If the past year have taught ccp anything it's putting something in game without a counter break eve, causes months of crap ont he forums and ultimately requires addition development time to right the problem created by not putting enough time in in the first place.
Edit: Removing non-consensual pvp and piracy (isn't that ment to be a viable profession?) in a single module has got to be a new low, worse than caracals warping faster tan an inty can lock. Predictability is the bane of this game. Each change ccp has made recently (scrams/web/gate sizes etc.) Has been to the effect of increasing the un-predictability of eve, for the better. Not knowing the outcome of a fight make the game more fun, but this. This takes eve back to the predictable place it's seem and tried to escape so many times before. -------------------------
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Vecila
Live and Learn Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:19:00 -
[150]
Just how many ships and modules does scram immunity nullify, i.e. make totaly worthless? How many development hours were put into creating all those ships, only to have someone come along now and say sorry, you wasted your time?
Cloak, invincible to tackle, each ss tank 40m3 for easy transport means no one will go traveling without one in their cargo ( i know i wouldn't). Incidentally, how does this effect concord?
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Malena Panic
Gallente Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:30:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Dr Resheph The covert ops bonus is a huge mistake... This is power creep in its ugliest form
Originally by: Dr Resheph the scanning cpu bonus is just ridiculous because I don't agree with the fitting requirements of the Integrated launcher to begin with... there is no reason the fittings shouldn't be 60tf instead of 220tf.
Originally by: Dr Repheph Lastly, the bubble immunity bonus shows you have some room for creativity still, but it's fairly ridiculous because a) bubbles need an overhaul and b) need to be available in all areas of space/combat before you go ahead and design entire ships around evasion.
Originally by: Dr Resheph Unrelated to 4th tier subsystems, I make the following requests:
- no skillpoint loss penalty if destruction takes place in WH space - full immunity from positive and negative environmental effects in WH space
That should get interest going.
This is an entirely well-reasoned and persuasive post. (what are you doing here?) ;) ... |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:34:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Vecila Just how many ships and modules does scram immunity nullify, i.e. make totaly worthless? How many development hours were put into creating all those ships, only to have someone come along now and say sorry, you wasted your time?
Cloak, invincible to tackle, each ss tank 40m3 for easy transport means no one will go traveling without one in their cargo ( i know i wouldn't). Incidentally, how does this effect concord?
I don't believe it's immunity to scams, just bubbles.
The combination of cloak + bubble immunity makes this ship an unstoppable traveler...I'm sure they know this, so they must have a reason for it.
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Vrikshaka
0ff-Peak Esoteric Cutthroats
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:54:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Dr Resheph Unrelated to 4th tier subsystems, I make the following requests:
- no skillpoint loss penalty if destruction takes place in WH space - full immunity from positive and negative environmental effects in WH space
This is a good idea, and very much in-line with the origin of the shipclass we're discussing.
Originally by: IceAero I don't believe it's immunity to scams, just bubbles.
ROFL. Now there's an addition that would get interest going.
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Pliskkenn
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:58:00 -
[154]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Tarminic
Scan Probe Bonuses: I very much like this, but I don't like the tractor range/speed bonus. Why, you ask? Because it's completely useless for anything other than wrecks! I would prefer to see something along these lines: All hulls: Bonus to tractor beams Gallente: 5% Archeology bonus Caldari: 5% Hacking Bonus Minmatar: 5% Salvage bonus Amarr: Not sure here, maybe an additional tractor beam bonus? Otherwise, very good stuff.
We did look at mini-profession bonuses but decided to scrap them. We didn't really have enough of them and we believe they belong on a smaller/cheaper vessel.
Burst model please. They actually look nifty in Premium ---
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:05:00 -
[155]
Originally by: IceAero
Originally by: Vecila Just how many ships and modules does scram immunity nullify, i.e. make totaly worthless? How many development hours were put into creating all those ships, only to have someone come along now and say sorry, you wasted your time?
Cloak, invincible to tackle, each ss tank 40m3 for easy transport means no one will go traveling without one in their cargo ( i know i wouldn't). Incidentally, how does this effect concord?
I don't believe it's immunity to scams, just bubbles.
The combination of cloak + bubble immunity makes this ship an unstoppable traveler...I'm sure they know this, so they must have a reason for it.
That's correct - if you read up on pg 1 iirc Nozh states it only applies to HIC spheres, interdictor bubbles and deployable bubbles.
It does make a nigh on unstoppable traveler, but you're sacrificing a lot to acquire that - certainly not a 'gank mobile' - perhaps a role as a forward scout, or transport ship?
From what we can see so far the cloaked subsystem is limited in many respects, it suggests only 4 high slots, 1 for the cloak leaves just 3 for weapon systems - not great for dealing damage. You cant really then fit a probe launcher (unless you can handle just 2 turrets.
Potentially you could fit a cloak, and have 3 turrets slots and the electronic subsystem for amarr for 2 x nos/neut which is the equivalent of a pilgrim, but with no TD bonus. (In which case just buy a pilgrim tbh).
Anyone hoping to build a cloaked, bubble immune gank mobile is going to be disappointed here - but you could gain one or other of these advantages to create a hybrid vessel of some description.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:12:00 -
[156]
I suppose one of the answers to the anti-bubble subsystem would be a reduced cargo hold, but I'm not sure how that would balance with the "ammo-less" legion. Maybe give the Legion a smaller cargo bay overall and then make it a % reduction? Somewhere In England |
EYEDOLL
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:54:00 -
[157]
Define "immunity".. Does the immunity to bubbles also include T3 cruisers not being sucked into drag bubbles? Or doest it just mean they can warp out of a bubble but still land on the edge of it ? If they still get sucked in, but can warp out right away, they are still pretty beatable if you put a ship with drones out on the warp-in point I guess.. Would just move camps from incoming to outgoing gates. If it makes them land on 0 on a bubbled gate, that would suck a bit more imo :P
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Ol' Delsai
Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.25 17:37:00 -
[158]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey!
Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.
Comments!
Honestly,
I'm really pessimistic about the price's going down.
In the manufacturing process there's actually two bottleneck : - the first one is the C-320 and C-540 fullerite gas. They are meant to be rare but on top of this there is the difficulty of sleepers NPC guarding these particular ladar site (BS) You should remove one or the other constraint - the second one is the tech 3 subsystems/hulls BPC creation ... a lot too much constraint very rare Radar site (haven't found one yet) + really hard site's cleaning (most people are doing anomaly and not radar sites) + restriction on research equipment + a lot of loot to reverse-engineered. ==> Even though fullerite would in time become cheaper, the BPC will remain way to expensive
If you remove these two bottlenecks you'll have price in a range of 1x-3x T2 cruiser. If note, you'll have 20x prices of a T2 cruiser.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.25 18:12:00 -
[159]
Biggest problem is complete separation of T3 from existing production schemes... :X It's too late to change things, i'm afraid, but it would be VERY good also LOGICAL step to build new technology on the existing base, reusing existing datacores (knowledge), combining them with artifacts and interfaces of foreign race to produce more advanced ships. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Lt Angus
Caldari End Game. Dead End.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 20:29:00 -
[160]
+100% to overheating bonus, probably should be on the hull, would give the tech3 cruisers a real edge but only for a limited duration please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
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D'Artagnan
Bladerunners KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.25 21:48:00 -
[161]
I could agree with the CO cloak and the immunity to bubbles IF you Nozh promise me one of the lvl 5 sub systems will be a cloak detection system :)
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Templayer
Amarr Monks of War United Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.26 05:48:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Templayer on 26/03/2009 05:51:33 Edited by: Templayer on 26/03/2009 05:48:57 Please Nozh , Dont do it! Covops system is a fail! Doing something more powerful than FO will be OP, doing something less powerful than FO will be meaningless. Please dont waste a whole subsystem to very unnecesary bonus.
Buble immunity is a win. But bubble immunity + covops is a fail!
Its better if we see more unique bonuses like bubble immunity than making an "almost recon ship".
Good suggestion above immunity to WH space effects , if it is possible technicaly than it will be good placement for 5th Defence or better Propulsion subsystem.
Cloak detention is also a very good idea for Electronic or even Offensive subsystem. Lets say something like all cloaked ships in 10-15km get automaticaly decloaked.
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Clyneva
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Posted - 2009.03.26 07:32:00 -
[163]
How about giving the cloaking subsystem for the Proteus +25 Drone BW and a drone damage bonus, at the cost of either an additional turret and/or a reduced turret bonus.
That way it can at least field a set of mediums(with the engineering subsystem), and it'll better set it apart from the current recons.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.26 07:45:00 -
[164]
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser"
Would be good if it could have some kind of range bonus. Without this the ship will be very similar to a Sacrilege in terms of offensive power.
________________ God is my Wingman |
Masempa
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Posted - 2009.03.26 12:11:00 -
[165]
Serious guys,
Not being able to test more than 1 combination of t3 ship before they where released on TQ took the **** and probably violated Q&A proceedures.
Now it just looks bad.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.26 13:26:00 -
[166]
Originally by: DeadDuck "Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser"
Would be good if it could have some kind of range bonus. Without this the ship will be very similar to a Sacrilege in terms of offensive power.
T3 in general has sheer defensive capability, so that amended the comparable offensive capability by longer fights, so you can confidently deliver more damage against similar target, comparing to T2 counterpart. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.26 13:28:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Masempa Serious guys,
Not being able to test more than 1 combination of t3 ship before they where released on TQ took the **** and probably violated Q&A proceedures.
Now it just looks bad.
It's your problem, really, T3 was on SiSi for quite long time. Enough to realize bad sides of certain fittings, and changes was (obviously) made from the negative responses, rather than positive ones. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Dr Resheph
Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY
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Posted - 2009.03.26 17:23:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Cailais Cloaked warfare is and remains a valid tactic, in its simplest form it typifies guerilla style / small gang combat (and as such is the flip side of blob warfare) - and is well suited for the Crusier class of ships. As its selected on an Offensive subsystem you sacrifice damage for stealth which is only proper in my view.
Cloaks are, in essence, their own counter as whilst cloaked you cant inflict any actual damage only a psychological impact.
I dont believe the Force Recons are made redundant with this subsystem, they have EW capabilities which the T3 vessel will not have unless specifically fitted for such (reducing its damage capabilities even further - probably to a point where they are notably less effective than a Force Recon. Indeed by your argument you could suggest that all T2 ships are made redundant by T3, just on the basis that they can mimic T2 capabilities (i.e damage output, tank etc).
C.
1. Guerrilla warfare isn't about modules or ships and is NOT the same thing as "cloak warfare". You can do guerrilla warfare with any sub-capital class in EVE. It's about tactics and reaction time.
The only reason covert ops ships are currently used as support is because they don't have the tank or damage potential to compose an entire fleet. T3 will have this. Furthermore, even if you could make the argument that adding more cloak warfare is helping guerrilla warfare, you can't make the argument that it needs helping to begin with.
2. I said "mostly or completely redundant". Falcon and Rapier will still be useful for their web and ecm roles, which no other ships do better. Tanking and damage is not part of the value proposition.
There is little reason in flying a Pilgrim and Arazu if you can use another ship with a strong tank and more damage? It basically devolves into a tradeoff: EW bonuses for worse tanking/damage. Instead of being the best covert combat ship for these two races, they become a second choice option if you're looking for a very niche role or if you can't afford better.
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.26 21:10:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Dr Resheph
1. Guerrilla warfare isn't about modules or ships and is NOT the same thing as "cloak warfare". You can do guerrilla warfare with any sub-capital class in EVE. It's about tactics and reaction time.
And cloaks effect reaction times. Couple this with the ability to use cov cynos et al and you have a strong contender for enabling or supporting guerrilla tactics - not the only part of that particular puzzle but certainly an important part.
Quote:
The only reason covert ops ships are currently used as support is because they don't have the tank or damage potential to compose an entire fleet. T3 will have this.
With 4 High Slots (one of those used for the cloak) I'm confused as to where you think this 'damage potential' is coming from vs an equivalent fleet on non-cloaked ships.
Quote:
2. I said "mostly or completely redundant". Falcon and Rapier will still be useful for their web and ecm roles, which no other ships do better. Tanking and damage is not part of the value proposition.
There is little reason in flying a Pilgrim and Arazu if you can use another ship with a strong tank and more damage?
Again, I dont see where the damage is coming from. The pilgrim get a % bonus to drone damage and TD use. The T3 'covert' ship gets a very mediocre damage bonus to a low high slot set up, and no EW bonus at all - meaning it has to cover 100% of its tank traditionaly.
If anything fitting a covert subsystem is a sure fire way to relegate the T3 ship to a niche role - not the other way around.
C.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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EvilSpork
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.03.26 22:39:00 -
[170]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem.
i really really liked the tracking bonus subsystem.. but we *need* a khanid subsystem so i guess i can let that one go.. not happy its going but i really want khanid..
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints.
Don't limit it to JUST heavy assault missiles! give the bonus to heavy missiles too!!!!
Originally by: CCP Nozh
4th Offensive subsystem: (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus)
ok seriously. NO! NO! NO! what are you guys thinking!? look at the maller and prophecy.. and even the punisher. they are ALL better off using autocannons over lasers. ccp, your balancing team cant be this naive.. NO! BAD CPP! BAD!
rant: the root of this problem REALLY needs to be addressed and just remove the laser cap bonuses and lower laser cap use... it would be GREAT to have an actual second bonus on most amarr ships...
(tbh fix laser cap use and give us a bonus to shininess of amarr golden hulls and it would still be less insulting to need to waste a bonus just to use our guns. at least the shiny wouldnt be wasted...)
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.03.27 02:10:00 -
[171]
Quote: Don't limit it to JUST heavy assault missiles! give the bonus to heavy missiles too!!!!
I'd agree with that only if the Tengu's bonus got from kinetic to all damage types. But really it's fine as it is, Caldari get more limited damage types and better range selection, Amarr get up close rainbow damage. Different flavors of missile boats.
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.27 12:02:00 -
[172]
How about:
4th Offensive subsystem:
able to use Offensive Warfare Links (of course, you have to design them first) & 4 hardpoints ; no dmg bonus
4th Engineering Subsystem:
regenerative heat system : self repairing subsystem for damaged modules based on heat dmg ; -2,5% cap recharge p.l. ; +0/2/1 or 0/1/2 slot layout
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
able to use some sort of FTL drive, able to jump from one sun to another within 2ly ; needs a cooldown and regenrate it powers from a star itself (need to be close to the star); static bonus: -25% rof & -25% velocity & -25% sensor strength
throwing some crazy ideas into the room ... comon :)
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.27 13:31:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
Quote: Don't limit it to JUST heavy assault missiles! give the bonus to heavy missiles too!!!!
I'd agree with that only if the Tengu's bonus got from kinetic to all damage types. But really it's fine as it is, Caldari get more limited damage types and better range selection, Amarr get up close rainbow damage. Different flavors of missile boats.
You'd have different flavor in missile boats if that bonus was replaced by a 5% EM damage, and it would make it a viable choice for pve against blood raiders/sanchas/drones. And the Tengu would still be a bit better due to a stronger RoF bonus.
Heavy assault missiles are almost never used for pvp, and even less for pve. Thus this bonus make the whole subsystem not worth fitting.
------------------------------------------
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.27 17:45:00 -
[174]
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array vs Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
dont you think soemthing is wrong? Proteus one more bonus and everyone know that blasters get much more base damage. And 2x drone bandwth.
60D GTC - shattared link |
Katy Karkinoff
Minmatar Psycho Chicks
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Posted - 2009.03.27 20:41:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array vs Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
dont you think soemthing is wrong? Proteus one more bonus and everyone know that blasters get much more base damage. And 2x drone bandwth.
yes but range of blasters sucks and projectiles have some semblance of range to use.
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Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.27 21:46:00 -
[176]
Covops cloak and bubble-proof bonuses = win.
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.03.27 22:36:00 -
[177]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Tarminic
Scan Probe Bonuses: I very much like this, but I don't like the tractor range/speed bonus. Why, you ask? Because it's completely useless for anything other than wrecks! I would prefer to see something along these lines: All hulls: Bonus to tractor beams Gallente: 5% Archeology bonus Caldari: 5% Hacking Bonus Minmatar: 5% Salvage bonus Amarr: Not sure here, maybe an additional tractor beam bonus? Otherwise, very good stuff.
We did look at mini-profession bonuses but decided to scrap them. We didn't really have enough of them and we believe they belong on a smaller/cheaper vessel.
You're forgetting gas cloud harvesting.... Gallente - Gas Harvesting Caldari - Hacking Amarr - Archaeology Minmatar - Salvage
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.27 23:22:00 -
[178]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
Call me a carebear, but this is the only thing - if it goes live - that will get me into a T3 ship ... and the week after I do, CCP will nerf it.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.28 08:43:00 -
[179]
Originally by: el caido
Originally by: CCP Nozh Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
Call me a carebear, but this is the only thing - if it goes live - that will get me into a T3 ship ... and the week after I do, CCP will nerf it.
Covert ops cloak and immunity from bubbles... Even with greater align time that's damn uncatchable...
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Felysta Sandorn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.28 11:39:00 -
[180]
Originally by: CCP Nozh "Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
If you are taking this away, can the other offensive subsystem be changed from optimal range to tracking? Lasers suffer from poor tracking at close range, and a tracking bonus would really make a difference... Optimal bonus won't change that much to be honest...
Thanks
.: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.28 12:13:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn If you are taking this away, can the other offensive subsystem be changed from optimal range to tracking? Lasers suffer from poor tracking at close range, and a tracking bonus would really make a difference... Optimal bonus won't change that much to be honest...
Thanks
Tried sniping? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.28 13:53:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn
Originally by: CCP Nozh "Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
If you are taking this away, can the other offensive subsystem be changed from optimal range to tracking? Lasers suffer from poor tracking at close range, and a tracking bonus would really make a difference... Optimal bonus won't change that much to be honest...
Thanks
woah woah woah WOAH!
no
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skye orionis
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Posted - 2009.03.28 16:12:00 -
[183]
Another idea for the sensor subsystem would be racial bonuses to scanning down certain exploration sites. Now I know the whole probing system lost the multiple probe types, but I'm guessing that the system still knows about different signature types.
So, take the racial sensor types and give the ships bonuses to tracking down the matching site type i.e. Caldari -> Gravimetric -> bonus to find hidden asteroid fields Amarr -> Radar -> Bonus to finding Archaeology sites Minmatar -> Ladar -> bonus to Finding Gas Clouds Gallente -> Magnetometric -> bonus to Finding hacking sites
Obviously, other 'unknown' sites would all benefit from the strength boost, but scanning for the wrong type of site would give no bonus
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.28 17:38:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Lijhal on 28/03/2009 17:39:07
Originally by: skye orionis Another idea for the sensor subsystem would be racial bonuses to scanning down certain exploration sites. Now I know the whole probing system lost the multiple probe types, but I'm guessing that the system still knows about different signature types.
So, take the racial sensor types and give the ships bonuses to tracking down the matching site type i.e. Caldari -> Gravimetric -> bonus to find hidden asteroid fields Amarr -> Radar -> Bonus to finding Archaeology sites Minmatar -> Ladar -> bonus to Finding Gas Clouds Gallente -> Magnetometric -> bonus to Finding hacking sites
Obviously, other 'unknown' sites would all benefit from the strength boost, but scanning for the wrong type of site would give no bonus
why should amarr and gallente get the best bonus in terms of scanning down radar or magneto sites? this would be a huge mistake if 2 races can scan down the lucrative explo sites better then the others ... no thanks!
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skye orionis
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Posted - 2009.03.28 19:01:00 -
[185]
Well gas clouds are essential to building t3, so your assertion that they're less valuable than the other sites may need to be examined with the new t3 market dynamics.
Similarly, Grav sites are worthless in empire and lowsec right now because of the high price of tritanium - if the market changes the value changes. (In 'tame' 0.0 grav sites are essential to alliances to find the High end ores - Mercoxit, Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite)
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.29 11:29:00 -
[186]
Originally by: skye orionis Well gas clouds are essential to building t3, so your assertion that they're less valuable than the other sites may need to be examined with the new t3 market dynamics.
Similarly, Grav sites are worthless in empire and lowsec right now because of the high price of tritanium - if the market changes the value changes. (In 'tame' 0.0 grav sites are essential to alliances to find the High end ores - Mercoxit, Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite)
of course are ladars sites essential necessary to build t3 ships ... but please go to one wormhole system and start scanning ...
then you'll see, that you will find more gravi & ladar sites all over the place instead of radar or even magneto ... and to tell you the truth ... ladar and gravi sites arent really a problem to be found, b/c in most cases you can drop 4(four) non-faction core probs with 4au scanrange, hit scan and get an almost 100% result!
i can speak from my own experience that after dozend of dozends of wh's, i was able to find exactly 3 radar and 2 magneto sites (at least i found some). guess how many ladar sites i found ? guess how many f******* gravi sites i found ? the last time i did i wasnt able to find any acient relics or decryptor etc i a ladar site ..
What i want to tell you is, that you dont need high sp's in the astrometric skilltree to find those sites within a wormhole system! and thats why, iam sorry, your idea fails!
hacking and salvaging sites are the worst ones, in terms of scanning down ... so giving amarr and gal a subsystem with bonuses to find these sites better than other sites, would make the other 2 races useless in terms of scanning a wormhole for lucrative loot
hell, iam going to start harvest that ladar site after the downtime again ..
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.03.29 11:54:00 -
[187]
Tech 3 in my opinion should bear the value of "tech 3."
Let's take a look at these stats and think, are they really good? Bordering overpowered, you have to realize that it is TECH 3 after all. If you get a fleet together of tech 3 ships you should quiver in fear because they have maxed out bonuses that no other ship can touch.
Today I took on 3 ships at once in a cruiser hull (tech 3). Two Thoraxes and a Hurricane. I melted the first thorax (he was not plated) and then chewed through the other one, then jammed the hurricane and warped off. Thing is, I probably could have taken him but local spike, so yeah.
Anyway, what I am trying to say here is there is ability the tech 3 ships have. I think the HP is right, and I feel like the ship moves like a cruiser should. However I think the bonuses could use a bit more polishing. Let's tack on 5% more damage so you get a maximum of a 75% damage bonus. Let's add a subsystem that greatly reduces the amount of grid guns use. Let's make a cargo subsystem that gives you 1000m3 cargospace (and looks equally as huge). Let's ramp up ECM/Sensor Booster/Tracking Disruptor/Painter bonuses to silly levels where one mod acts like 2. Let's give remote reps a cap reduction and allow to fit larges. Let's give the people who want to make THEIR OWN SHIP the ability to do it, without limits, whether it be for PVP, exploration, mission running, salvaging, trading, whatever. Let's break the game.
Tech 3 should be awe-inspiring, not just another new ship. Let's do some stuff that is off-the-wall crazy and max out damage, tanks and electronic warfare capabilities so things that may seem overpowered can be really looked at as "oh my gosh, that's a tech 3 ship" and people feel like it's not something to casually engage.
Make Tech 3 awesome.
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Nnamuachs
Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.29 17:49:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Tech 3 in my opinion should bear the value of "tech 3."
Let's take a look at these stats and think, are they really good? Bordering overpowered, you have to realize that it is TECH 3 after all. If you get a fleet together of tech 3 ships you should quiver in fear because they have maxed out bonuses that no other ship can touch.
Today I took on 3 ships at once in a cruiser hull (tech 3). Two Thoraxes and a Hurricane. I melted the first thorax (he was not plated) and then chewed through the other one, then jammed the hurricane and warped off. Thing is, I probably could have taken him but local spike, so yeah.
Anyway, what I am trying to say here is there is ability the tech 3 ships have. I think the HP is right, and I feel like the ship moves like a cruiser should. However I think the bonuses could use a bit more polishing. Let's tack on 5% more damage so you get a maximum of a 75% damage bonus. Let's add a subsystem that greatly reduces the amount of grid guns use. Let's make a cargo subsystem that gives you 1000m3 cargospace (and looks equally as huge). Let's ramp up ECM/Sensor Booster/Tracking Disruptor/Painter bonuses to silly levels where one mod acts like 2. Let's give remote reps a cap reduction and allow to fit larges. Let's give the people who want to make THEIR OWN SHIP the ability to do it, without limits, whether it be for PVP, exploration, mission running, salvaging, trading, whatever. Let's break the game.
Tech 3 should be awe-inspiring, not just another new ship. Let's do some stuff that is off-the-wall crazy and max out damage, tanks and electronic warfare capabilities so things that may seem overpowered can be really looked at as "oh my gosh, that's a tech 3 ship" and people feel like it's not something to casually engage.
Make Tech 3 awesome.
Too bad it varies from CCP's idea of tech 3, "Different, not better"
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.29 18:08:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Nnamuachs Too bad it varies from CCP's idea of tech 3, "Different, not better"
Actually, it's good that CCP still not lost it's mind on balance. T3 is good... quite. Not OP, though. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Nnamuachs
Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.29 19:13:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Nnamuachs Too bad it varies from CCP's idea of tech 3, "Different, not better"
Actually, it's good that CCP still not lost it's mind on balance. T3 is good... quite. Not OP, though.
i was saying different but not better is a good thing, not a bad thing.
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EvilSpork
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.03.29 22:12:00 -
[191]
Edited by: EvilSpork on 29/03/2009 22:14:05 how about adding more and more subsystems. the best and coolest ones using higher subsystem skills. who says we cant have 2 or even more subsystems that use a certain level of subsystem skill.
more options = awesome
and to the guy on the last page that says HAMs are never used... you are daft. they are used very often. drake, nighthawk, sacrilege, absolution, hurricane, rupture etc
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
Quote: Don't limit it to JUST heavy assault missiles! give the bonus to heavy missiles too!!!!
I'd agree with that only if the Tengu's bonus got from kinetic to all damage types. But really it's fine as it is, Caldari get more limited damage types and better range selection, Amarr get up close rainbow damage. Different flavors of missile boats.
hmm... i see your point. i've just wanted to see a sacrilege with a decent range, and this seemed like a good candidate. you present a good argument though.
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Mad Axe
Caldari Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.03.31 07:34:00 -
[192]
I agree longer overheat is kinda boring. Why not introduce a new feature with that module; my idea would be to make the overheat last less time and as your modules hit breaking point overload would turn off till heat reaches zero, at that point modules would start regenerating.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.31 10:40:00 -
[193]
The command link one though awsome needs other things to bite with, cant entirely defang the cruiser it needs some self 'defense' though unbonused turrents is okay an expanded drone bay would be more 'flexible' for all the ships. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Tamer
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Posted - 2009.03.31 13:34:00 -
[194]
tier-4 subsystems.
Electronics: Can fit Covert Ops Coloaking device, ability to use covert bridge Offensive: +10%/lvl to (medium) smatrbombs damage and 5% to ROF (oh yeah!) Defensive: mass reduction, cargo expansion Proplusion: +2 warp core strength, close-range jump drive like B.O. (yeah!) Engineering: 20%/level to nosferatu/neuth range --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.31 16:40:00 -
[195]
Ugh, no. No covops cloak, PLEASE. We're already losing the thing that made stealth bombers so unique and satisfying to use, don't make tech 3 "Lol I warpe claokde" as well, PLEASE.
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
ChalSto
LOCKDOWN. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.04.01 12:47:00 -
[196]
Why, for gods shake, does a t3-cruiser, which is supposed to use overheat, still rely on Nanite Repair Paste?
Its just stupid....
And an Astarte still whipes the floor with every Proteus-config.... Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.01 15:01:00 -
[197]
The 4th electronics subsystem...
I think would do well with a bonus to salvaging.
They are all seeded now, off to play!
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.04.02 00:12:00 -
[198]
Originally by: CCP Nozh madness...
We're completely doing obsoleting the current tech II cruisers then? Not that I'm complaining but we should just state that as a long term goal up front.
Anyway, my suggestion is to simply make subsystem 4 about heat. 5% heat reduction / level for modules affected by that sub-system. This would, of course be on top of the 5% reduction associated with the hull.
Would make for very evil ships.
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Logan Xerxes
Steel Fleet
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Posted - 2009.04.02 03:42:00 -
[199]
There needs to be the addition of an "eject NOW DAMMIT" button that just kicks you straight out of your ship. Twice now i've laost skillpoints because of the "you suuuuure you wanna do that?" prompt and lag.
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2009.04.02 05:20:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Logan Xerxes There needs to be the addition of an "eject NOW DAMMIT" button that just kicks you straight out of your ship. Twice now i've laost skillpoints because of the "you suuuuure you wanna do that?" prompt and lag.
there is a mark you can set so it will not ask you again. and no we don't want this "i accidentially jumped out of my ship" bottum ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
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Logan Xerxes
Steel Fleet
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Posted - 2009.04.02 05:27:00 -
[201]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
Originally by: Logan Xerxes There needs to be the addition of an "eject NOW DAMMIT" button that just kicks you straight out of your ship. Twice now i've laost skillpoints because of the "you suuuuure you wanna do that?" prompt and lag.
there is a mark you can set so it will not ask you again. and no we don't want this "i accidentially jumped out of my ship" bottum
Oh, well you should at least be able to hotkey it then. Right click menus in a fight are crap.
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.04.02 06:39:00 -
[202]
i think the new 4th subsystem for the Caldari should use rails, but not some wish wash range bonus, we can deal with the range our self, give it a 5% damage per lvl and ether add 4 turret slots or make it mixed so we can choose which ones we want on the 4th subsystem
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Caya
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.02 10:47:00 -
[203]
Im glad that some1 in CCP read my mind. God bless the change of amarr off. subsystem from tracking to missile one.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:27:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Caya Im glad that some1 in CCP read my mind. God bless the change of amarr off. subsystem from tracking to missile one.
Funny ... I was thinking the exact opposite. Comparing Harbi-like heavy pulse with the tracking to hit frigs (which it needed, having no drone bay) to what is now essentially a Drake with no drone bay? Yeah ... whee.
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SirSpectre
Gallente Harbingers Of Destruction
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Posted - 2009.04.02 18:50:00 -
[205]
Not sure if this was answered, but with the covert ops subsystem, does this mean it will be able to use Black Ops jump portals? ----
Sig here. ---> X |
TimMc
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.02 18:56:00 -
[206]
New bonuses sound awesome Previously I've had no interest in t3 besides playing on test server, but these new 4th slot modules will make them alot of fun.
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Radiation Poisoning
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:32:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Vecila Just how many ships and modules does scram immunity nullify, i.e. make totaly worthless? How many development hours were put into creating all those ships, only to have someone come along now and say sorry, you wasted your time?
Cloak, invincible to tackle, each ss tank 40m3 for easy transport means no one will go traveling without one in their cargo ( i know i wouldn't). Incidentally, how does this effect concord?
You're dumb, its IMMUNE TO FIELDS, so normal scam and disrupt can get you i believe. Just not HICS and bubbles.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:34:00 -
[208]
Originally by: TimMc New bonuses sound awesome Previously I've had no interest in t3 besides playing on test server, but these new 4th slot modules will make them alot of fun.
Confirming I'm making some really cool cloaky fits. \o/
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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4 LOM
United Gamers
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Posted - 2009.04.03 03:06:00 -
[209]
Edited by: 4 LOM on 03/04/2009 03:06:47 Defensive: None warp drive effecting EWAR emunity?
Offensive: Caldari - give them a drone subsystem (call it stolen gallenty tech or guristas) Amarr - Smart bomb bonus Gallenty - allow for 1 or 2 fighters Minmitar - 100% damage modifier with -100% rate of fire, give them some serious alpha (could be tweaked more... maybe even 200% damage modifire and a - to weapon cpacaity to allow for only 1 or 2 rounds)
Electronic: Some kind of decloacking, emits an energy feild that provents hostile ships from cloacking within 15km (dont know how to make it logical that friendly ships can)
Enginnering: Some kind of heat damage repaire ability, moduals that are not currently active repair 5% damage per minute?
Propulsion: A 1 system jump drive that drops you randomly in the next system (should use a consumable, and perhaps not allow the ship to use gates at all)
Well those are my crazy ass ideas, figure i might as well get the out there.
Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 03:57:00 -
[210]
Immunity to Bubbles + Covops Cloak + Expanded Probe Launcher??
Me want
- Contagious - |
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.04.03 07:52:00 -
[211]
this is not the place, but please look at taking away one of the spilt weapons system subsystems low solts to give it 3/3 turret missle layout.
Currently there is no way to use a remote shield rep and 3/3, it seems pointless to have a split weapon system and then not even have the hardpoints to use both of them. which is gimped already anyways. But with that it's even more gimped.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2009.04.03 11:13:00 -
[212]
love the new subsystems ... gogogo ccp :)
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keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:05:00 -
[213]
Mmmmhhhh...
You removed the drone bay when you changed the second legion laser offensive to missiles, now the only one with a drone bay at all is the drone bonused one.
Any chance of getting a small drone bay back for the assault optimization? ... and I really think they should boost T2 plate HP.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.03 21:28:00 -
[214]
I'd like to see all T3 ships get a base 25m3/25mbit bandwidth drone bay, at *least*. All the Proteus fits should have a 75m3/50mbit bandwidth drone bay as standard.
CCP introduced the whole concept of 'bandwidth' so that drone bay sizes could be increased to allow more flexibility without producing overpowered increases in DPS due to people using heavy drones, and now you've done nothing with it.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.04.04 02:20:00 -
[215]
Could someone post the stats for the defensive warfare link bonus? I don't have access to the test server right now but I'm really curious. Mainly what I'm wondering is how the bonus compares to that of the fleet commands.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.04 03:20:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Shadow Devourer Could someone post the stats for the defensive warfare link bonus? I don't have access to the test server right now but I'm really curious. Mainly what I'm wondering is how the bonus compares to that of the fleet commands.
5% per level.
Fleet Command ships have 3%
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.04 03:21:00 -
[217]
Another suggestion:
Can the "Emergent Locus Analyzer" Subsystems for all four ships add an additional high slot and have a 20% reduction in Expanded Probe Launcher CPU per level of electronic subsystem skill trained?
Fitting the subsystem really doesn't do you much good when you don't have the CPU or high slot to fit a probe launcher, now does it?
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.04.04 03:43:00 -
[218]
Originally by: IceAero
5% per level.
Fleet Command ships have 3%
Awesome, thanks.
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Zacho5
Immortalis Silens I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.04.04 06:05:00 -
[219]
a small bug the Covert Reconfiguration has 4 Launchers but Subsystem Skill Bonus is 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage per level
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Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.04.04 07:39:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Another suggestion:
Can the "Emergent Locus Analyzer" Subsystems for all four ships add an additional high slot and have a 20% reduction in Expanded Probe Launcher CPU per level of electronic subsystem skill trained?
Fitting the subsystem really doesn't do you much good when you don't have the CPU or high slot to fit a probe launcher, now does it?
Check the role bonus.
In the end, you'll be using 2.2 CPU for the probe launcher. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
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Olivor
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Posted - 2009.04.04 11:29:00 -
[221]
I'd just like to echo some sentiments that these designs (new and current) for subsystems seem so lazy for such a major selling point.
I can't fly, or afford, any of these things yet but I crunched some numbers... and can't really be bothered to train or save up for them. WHY can't Caldari get a armour tank, WHY does the Legion have better natural armour resists than the Proteus when both should armour tank? WHY is the only ship that gets an electronic warfare bonus caldari, does that just mean all other forms of ewar suck (Well, we knew that already...)
There is so much that's wrong with T3 I don't know why anyone bothers with them. There was some Apocrypha development video that said something along the lines of "I'm sure some of these subsystems will be massively overpowered". I'd actually rather see that, if people are putting úúú's on the line and possibly 4 days skill training why aren't these things OP to the max?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.04.04 16:14:00 -
[222]
Quote: I'd actually rather see that, if people are putting úúú's on the line and possibly 4 days skill training why aren't these things OP to the max?
Money is one issue, but frankly 4 days skill training is an insignificant price to pay for an overpowered ship, and it would be game breaking.
===== Yeah, VC is back, and we have a bone to pick with you. |
Destructor1792
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.04 16:23:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Destructor1792 on 04/04/2009 16:23:17 Jeez - not more cloaking ships!! Not sure how i missed this thread (probably due to concentrating on the BO's) but why the hell are you allowing these things to use a cov-op cloak??? And immunity to WDF's ?????
We may as well start storing all our other ships as in 6 months when parts are more readily available and prices have gone to sensible levels, NO-ONE is gonna be flying anything else!!
The 4th set of subsystems should be geared towards Exploration (archeology / hacking / probing / harvesting / salvaging) not making these ships pretty much immune in most of Space!!
/rant off /coffee mode on... /chill pill on standby ______________________________________
Bringing The Fun Back
[gold]I Have No Fear, That's your Problem[/go |
Bloodpetal
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Posted - 2009.04.04 18:44:00 -
[224]
Concepts ::
Hauler Subsystem -- Improves cargo capacity, allows combinations of warfare and cargo hold to make a 'freelancer' ship that is able to hold its own but also haul materials around. Not enough to compete with a dedicate mammoth, etc, but enough to allow for the "Han Solo" types to make a smuggling ship
Profession Subsystems -- Allows improvements to hacking and archaeology/salvaging. This preempts the need for specific profession ships, and allows customization of weapon systems/defense systems with profession bonuses. Combined with other modules can allow for T3 ships to really shine for versatility in non-combat situations or for "riding the line" between combat and professions as well.
Cloaking Subsystem -- Bonuses to cloaking devices at cost to some offensive capabilities.
Gas Harvesting Subsystem -- Gives bonuses to gas harvesting where no other ships do.
Basically, I see that there's a big market for T3 ships where you can improve your revenue and investment using them. This creates a whole new market where industrialists/professionalists have to grab their T3 ship if they want to improve. This ensures that T3 ships won't be neglected and fall to the wayside. Giving people the tools to improve their money making is a sure way to keep T3 alive.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.04 20:34:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Immunity to Bubbles + Covops Cloak + Expanded Probe Launcher??
Me want
ORLY ... confirmed, loki can do the same just when you thought it couldnt get any more rediculous, CCP delivers
and lets not forget the pos/safespot-legion with 3 armor gang links (and some ECCM so it wont get probed... ever...) BC (rank 6) + command ship (rank 8) -- cruiser (rank 5) + amarr defensive subsystem (rank 1) 25.875% -- 28.175% - putting the gist back into logistics |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.04 23:44:00 -
[226]
Edited by: IceAero on 04/04/2009 23:46:37
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Immunity to Bubbles + Covops Cloak + Expanded Probe Launcher??
Me want
ORLY ... confirmed, loki can do the same just when you thought it couldnt get any more rediculous, CCP delivers
and lets not forget the pos/safespot-legion with 3 armor gang links (and some ECCM so it wont get probed... ever...) BC (rank 6) + command ship (rank 8) -- cruiser (rank 5) + amarr defensive subsystem (rank 1) 25.875% -- 28.175%
Uh..You can only run 1 warfare link at a time, not 3.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.04.05 00:18:00 -
[227]
That and it's a much weaker platform to run gang links on, with big red lights on it saying *gank me*.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.05 03:18:00 -
[228]
Originally by: IceAero Uh..You can only run 1 warfare link at a time, not 3.
yes, nozh has repeatedly proven to know this game only from spreadsheets. sure, i can't replace my 7-link damnation that can still tank 5 expl doomsdays (slave set ftw) but the 4 non-armor ones are just for lulz anyways.
so don't mind me "stuffing" co-procs in that low-slot heavy lego ship, grab 2 command procs and run all 3 armor links. if i'm not wing commander, be sure i'll at least seize command of the guardian squad, which will then RR 39.22% faster while getting 28.175% less dmg which translates into another 39.22% more rep amount --> 93.84% better guardians. (currently i only boots them by 78.73% since i don't want to skill CS V, but i _will_ invest 4d into amarr def sub V)
and i believe i'll have room for at least 2 if not 3 mid-eccms. good luck w/ your virtue set - i'll have the halo, just for good measure. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.05 05:35:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Artassaut
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Another suggestion:
Can the "Emergent Locus Analyzer" Subsystems for all four ships add an additional high slot and have a 20% reduction in Expanded Probe Launcher CPU per level of electronic subsystem skill trained?
Fitting the subsystem really doesn't do you much good when you don't have the CPU or high slot to fit a probe launcher, now does it?
Check the role bonus.
In the end, you'll be using 2.2 CPU for the probe launcher.
Ah, sweet. Now all we need is another high slot...
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2009.04.05 10:40:00 -
[230]
I for one think the 4th electronic subsystem could gain a small additional bonus to salvage, hacking & analyzing ... this would be awesome and it wont make any other ships useless :)
please ?
4th Electronic Subsystem:
10% increase to scan strength of probes per level 20% tractor beam range / velocity bonus per level
5% succes chance bonus to salvaging, hacking and analyzing per level
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TimMc
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.05 11:37:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Immunity to Bubbles + Covops Cloak + Expanded Probe Launcher??
Me want
My thoughts exactly... an immortal scout.
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Marlona Sky
Astroglide X The Foray Project
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Posted - 2009.04.05 14:59:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Mad Axe I agree longer overheat is kinda boring. Why not introduce a new feature with that module; my idea would be to make the overheat last less time and as your modules hit breaking point overload would turn off till heat reaches zero, at that point modules would start regenerating.
Maybe they will have something like that with T3 modules, if they plan on doing modules that way or something. But yeah, something to this effect would be cool.
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Jettisoned Can
Jenova's Witnesses
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Posted - 2009.04.05 18:15:00 -
[233]
Is there a reason the Amarr offensive: Assault optimization subsystem only has 2 bonuses when all the other non-cov ops ones have 2.5-4 bonuses? Throw on a missile velocity, missile precision, missile EM damage, capacitor recharge rate, or armor resist bonus. _________________________ Did you really not have enough room for me? I'm only 1m¦. |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.05 18:51:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Jettisoned Can Is there a reason the Amarr offensive: Assault optimization subsystem only has 2 bonuses when all the other non-cov ops ones have 2.5-4 bonuses? Throw on a missile velocity, missile precision, missile EM damage, capacitor recharge rate, or armor resist bonus.
Since it's Khanid...I vote 2% bonus to armor resists per level
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TimMc
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.05 22:31:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Jettisoned Can Is there a reason the Amarr offensive: Assault optimization subsystem only has 2 bonuses when all the other non-cov ops ones have 2.5-4 bonuses? Throw on a missile velocity, missile precision, missile EM damage, capacitor recharge rate, or armor resist bonus.
Its a balancing act. They would have to reduce a slot or something, or make lots of crappy bonuses.
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Hanns
Amarr Secret Service
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Posted - 2009.04.06 09:58:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Hanns on 06/04/2009 10:04:16 How about Web bonus to legion (like paladin) Painter bonus to tengu, + drone bay capacity for proteus, no ideas for minmitar tho?
also why do you only give bonus to Heavy assault missiles? itsl ike giving the deimos only a bonus to blasters or a zealot only a bonus to pulses imo heavy assaults and heavy missiles are both Medium weapon systems!
Originally by: Tuxford a new retribution bonus +1 med slot per level
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Marlona Sky
Astroglide X The Foray Project
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Posted - 2009.04.07 07:06:00 -
[237]
I agree with what someone said earlier. All T3 cruisers should have 25m3 drone bay and 25m3 bandwidth. Seems like an awful lot of skill points that do not get to be used on most of the setups, asside from the gallente boat.
Most you can get for the gallente cruiser is 75m3 drone bay, but if all T3 cruisers had 25m3 base it should bump it up to 100m3.
I guess maybe it would start leaning towards overpowered, I don't know. What do ya'll think?
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.07 20:24:00 -
[238]
If I understand correctly? The Tegnu as well gets 4 turret hardpoints? Is not that a bit off? Launcher hardpoints would be far more appropriate.
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Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.04.08 01:22:00 -
[239]
Cov Ops cloak + Being able to warp out of bubbles = no way to blockade POSes or prevent them from being restronted. Think very very carefully about this CCP... I think this could be a very bad idea.
Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 - Mitnal |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.08 11:26:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 07/04/2009 20:48:44 If I understand correctly? The Tegnu as well gets 4 turret hardpoints? Is not that a bit off? Launcher hardpoints would be far more appropriate.
EDIT: In regards to the 4th offencive sys
I'd say avoiding the missile flight delay would be a great benefit when you want to gank small stuff and gtfo of there.
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Dallenovic
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.08 18:44:00 -
[241]
Originally by: CCP Nozh "Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
This is not what i had in mind i was really looking forward to some close range enguagements where heavy pulse or focused mediums can track well, splitting the offensive subsystems is a bit harsh especially when u compare it to the tengus bonii
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level 7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level
I like the fact that the 5% damage is not restricted to a damage type on the Legion, but the Tengu completely beats it as it can use multiple weapons system with bonii and has an extra 2.5% rof per level which at level 5 would mean that the tengus damage modifier through rof = 1/0.625 = 1.6x dmg and the Legion is 1/0.75 = 1.333 thats 27% more damage not to mention that it has better range capabilities which is useful for HAMS, the Legion needs Velocity/ Flight time/ Explosion Velocity/ Radius bonus to be on par. Or do the Khanid thing and give it a 25m drone band width and 50m drone bay to deal with small stuff
Originally by: CCP Nozh "4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
Give amarr a damage bonus for a start or a 7.5% to rof like the loki. Think abaddon style cap maintainence. This is awsome, and i have a feeling that Recons will stil be around due to cost factor so people should stop moaning about replaced completely, cost is always a factor (unless your PL). These ships can fit 5 guns and a cloak. WiN! Fit a MWD web scram and disrputor and a buffer fitting for some epic uncloaking lolz
Originally by: CCP Nozh "4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
This is interesting and can make for some very nasty ships that will be fun to fly. I think however that if you fit this and fit a wcs and have scan res subsys u could have outrunning capability that will make people cry, true hit and run ship.
Originally by: CCP Nozh "4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
This is a good idea, i like how you have restriceted it by one turret/launcher but this is the same bonus as on the strategic cruiser itself and agree with the others that it should be effectiveness to the overheating, but should be in comparison to the 15% rof or 20% resistances on hardners etc. Say you make it 12.5% per level, but this was caluclated like 0.125 *5 * 15 (+original) = 24.375% rof and 32.5% resistanses (invu) at level 5.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:16:00 -
[242]
Edited by: IceAero on 08/04/2009 19:15:58
Originally by: Dallenovic
Originally by: CCP Nozh "4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
This is a good idea, i like how you have restriceted it by one turret/launcher but this is the same bonus as on the strategic cruiser itself and agree with the others that it should be effectiveness to the overheating, but should be in comparison to the 15% rof or 20% resistances on hardners etc. Say you make it 12.5% per level, but this was caluclated like 0.125 *5 * 15 (+original) = 24.375% rof and 32.5% resistanses (invu) at level 5.
Yeah...The more I play around with this 4th engineering subsystem the more fail I think it is.
When put on the legion, for example, it's got the same cap-recharge as the powercore multiplier (which is ok at best).
The supplemental cooling system just doesn't give anyone a Reason to use it. Being able to overheat a bit longer is great, but it doesn't make up for the bonuses the other systems have, i.e. PG amount / cap recharge / total cap / +1 hardpoint.
If you keep Everything the way it is...I'd think making it a bonus to overheat bonus would balance things. It probably does make for some hard-hitting set ups and maybe some crazy tanks...but only for 3, MAYBE 4 minutes...aka, useless in pve, and only going to affect solo-ish pvp (unless you have a gang of t3 ships ).
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:24:00 -
[243]
Originally by: IceAero I'd think making it a bonus to overheat bonus would balance things.
No. +1 Turret is way more powerful then maybe 3 minutes worth of overheating less turrets.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:41:00 -
[244]
Edited by: IceAero on 08/04/2009 19:42:24
Originally by: Perry
Originally by: IceAero I'd think making it a bonus to overheat bonus would balance things.
No. +1 Turret is way more powerful then maybe 3 minutes worth of overheating less turrets.
hum...is it? I didn't run the math on it.
Oh wait, duh. It's only -3.75% rof at lvlV (if it's a 5% bonus to over-heat bonus, -7.5% if it's 10% per level), when compared to the normal turret overheating.
You can't make it too high, since it affects resistance mods/tanking mods.
I'm not sure what the solution is then. Maybe +1 hardpoint AND 5% bonus to heat damage AND bonus. It would still have low PG for that many hardpoints, and the cap recharge would be weak, so maybe it's balanced.
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Dallenovic
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.08 20:17:00 -
[245]
If you get an extra 30% dps out of your ship and can fit a good setup, why is powergrid needed if you only need to fit 5 guns instead of 6? Thats 10% over a 6th (5 turrets, 100%/5 = 20%) turret option but with the drawback of u have to overheat to get this bonus, and repair between fights.
And would be nice to have the combination of 25% less heat damage from hull, more bonus to overheated modules thermodynamics 5 nanite operation 5 nanite interfacing 5.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:35:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 07/04/2009 20:48:44 If I understand correctly? The Tegnu as well gets 4 turret hardpoints? Is not that a bit off? Launcher hardpoints would be far more appropriate.
EDIT: In regards to the 4th offencive sys
I'd say avoiding the missile flight delay would be a great benefit when you want to gank small stuff and gtfo of there.
A point that I think far outweighs this is that a lot of Caldari got more missile skills then gunnery. And making it gunnery just makes missiles that less usefull.
I'd think it better to reward thoose who actually train missiles with a cov ops ship that uses misisles, after all Faclon will now be a rail ship, so no cov ops recon is ship with missiles.
Well, makes sense in my mind at least.
Merins idea about a Sansha'ish system is also interesting, 100% misisle damage, 3 hardpoints (or hybrid damage bouns if it satys turret hardpoint)
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.04.09 07:44:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Dallenovic
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level 7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level
I like the fact that the 5% damage is not restricted to a damage type on the Legion, but the Tengu completely beats it as it can use multiple weapons system with bonii and has an extra 2.5% rof per level which at level 5 would mean that the tengus damage modifier through rof = 1/0.625 = 1.6x dmg and the Legion is 1/0.75 = 1.333 thats 27% more damage not to mention that it has better range capabilities which is useful for HAMS, the Legion needs Velocity/ Flight time/ Explosion Velocity/ Radius bonus to be on par. Or do the Khanid thing and give it a 25m drone band width and 50m drone bay to deal with small stuff
the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?
so, no change here, there are fine as they should
oh wait ....
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.09 10:53:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Lijhal
the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?
Then we should nerf the Tengu Turret Bonus a bit, because Amarr clearly are the turret race...
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.04.09 11:39:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Perry
Originally by: Lijhal
the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?
Then we should nerf the Tengu Turret Bonus a bit, because Amarr clearly are the turret race...
you forgot your /sarcasm
again, almost all subsystems are fine ... proteus & loki still need some love ... but we dont need to nerf tengu's turret subsystem because it does not outdamaged any legion, proteus or even loki t3 combination at all ... so your sarcasm does not *fit* here :)
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.09 14:35:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs A point that I think far outweighs this is that a lot of Caldari got more missile skills then gunnery. And making it gunnery just makes missiles that less usefull.
It's far from ALL caldari pilots, though. Hybrid gunnery is a perfectly valid Caldari warfare choice. Hell, just look at our tier 3 battleship. Personally, I have twelve million SP in gunnery, but only 2 million in missiles, and I'm exclusively a Caldari pilot.
I agree that the majority of Caldari pilots focus on missiles, but it's not everyone, and those of us who prefer to use guns need some love as well. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2009.04.09 14:41:00 -
[251]
so did they change the amarr +tracking,damge, (can't remember the last one), with the cov up cloak thing?
hmm personally i think it is extremely stupid to give them cov ups.. suddenly every ship in game seems to be able to use these, making the ships that have some extreme handicaps (becouse they can use them) even less usefull.) ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:01:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Merins idea about a Sansha'ish system is also interesting, 100% misisle damage, 3 hardpoints (or hybrid damage bouns if it satys turret hardpoint)
Oh god no. NOT missiles. Lasers. It must use lasers, or it is not acceptable. Note that I did not say Sansha-ish, I said Sanshas, literally, as a set of subsystems (one per race) from the pirate factions. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:17:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Stitcher on 09/04/2009 17:18:19 I'm having trouble figuring out why the CPU Efficiency Gate subsystem even exists. As far as I can tell, it's useless.
Despite my best efforts in EFT, I've been unable to produce a single realistically useful Tengu setup that broke the CPU limit of the other two electronic subsystems. Pure ECM setups with heavy assault launchers and lots of sensor upgrades came closest, but even then, they didn't actually break the CPU limit until I started fitting modules that just didn't make sense.
In other words, as far as I can tell, the CPU Efficiency Gate is unnecessary, as all the militarily useful setups - even all the horribly CPU-intensive ones that I came up with - could be fit just fine without it. Which is a shame because it is, in my opinion, the most badass-looking of the Tengu electronics subsystems
Now I'll admit, I have pretty great fitting skills. But the yawning cavity between the requirements of these fits and what even the non-dedicated subsystems were producing suggests to me that the fitting would be pretty generous regardless. That and the fact that the Efficiency Gate produces an extra lowslot as opposed to a mid...
It just doesn't work. It seems to me to be effectively useless next to the other three subsystems. I'd suggest taking a look into giving it a new and alternative role (how about sensor resolution and range?), or at least rebalancing the CPU output of the other electronic subsystems, and shifting the 1 lowslot that the efficiency gate gives upwards into a midslot. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.04.09 18:21:00 -
[254]
Now, the problems with your new systems:
Caldari covops subsystem: This is obviously bugged. 5% hybrid damage/level, 4 missile hardpoints and zero turret hardpoints.
Scan probe subsystem: these need to give +1 high, +3 mid, not the current +4 mid. Since utility (non-primary-weapon) high slots are only available on subsystems that already have something (remote reps, neuts) to put there, fitting a scan probe launcher, even with the dedicated subsystem, means giving up a gun slot. This is a fatal penalty, and ensures that the subsystem will rarely, if ever, be used.
Gang mod subsystem: these have two problems:
1) No grid reduction. 200 grid is way too much for these ships. I was looking at fitting one on my Tengu, since I have awesome leadership skills, but it's just impossible. There's no way to get 200 grid without completely crippling the setup elsewhere. And I suspect the 50 CPU might be a problem on the CPU-limited ships. Just change the fixed bonus to -100% fitting requirements for gang mods.
2) Penalty is too harsh. Not only do you lose a tank bonus, but you also lose a tank slot. This is just too much, IMO, especially given how expensive these ships will be. I understand wanting to keep the total slots the same, but it's ok to break the pattern in the interest of overall balance. Keep the tank slots the same, and just give the free high slot (ex: for the Tengu, +2 mid, +1 high).
Khanid subsystem: as someone said above, when you first released the Khanid ships, you said that 5% HAM-only damage is equal to 5% kinetic-only damage, so why does the Legion get a smaller damage bonus than the Tengu? The Khanid subsystem needs to change to 5% HAM damage, 7.5% ROF and gain a 25m3 drone bay (instead of the Tengu's 10% velocity).
Covops subsystem: honestly, these are pretty underwhelming. Remember you're competing with the gun Pilgrim (Pilgrim with blasters or pulse lasers instead of nos/neuts), which can easily get 450 dps. A covops T3 cruiser will have much more tank, of course, but weaker dps. Even with the engineering subsystems that give +1 launcher/turret, you're talking about only T1 cruiser dps. Overall this is just pretty disappointing, and I'd have a very hard time ever justifying flying a covops T3 cruiser over my much cheaper gun Pilgrim.
I'd like to say just keep the bonuses the same as the other combat systems and just remove a weapon slot, but I'm not sure that would be balanced. Honestly, I think they were a bad idea in the first place, it's way too difficult to find the balance between too weak and massively overpowered. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Haldir Ravenclaw
Tenacious Tendencies
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Posted - 2009.04.10 15:37:00 -
[255]
I wonder if the 5% effectiveness bonus to warfare links subsystem will be split between the races (so the Proteus would get 5% effectiveness to information warfare, Legion 5% to armoured warfare and so on)? Hopefully not so that each race can use all the types of warfare links but I get the feeling they will be split - looks like I'll finally have to train Amarr --- We want T2/Faction drone modules!
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 15:40:00 -
[256]
There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:
Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.
Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...
Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.
Am I missing something?...
- Contagious - |
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.04.10 17:59:00 -
[257]
Just one thing. A mix that allows 125Mbit on the Proteus! --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Lillith Vitae
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Posted - 2009.04.10 23:36:00 -
[258]
I may be alone on this thought, but since currently there is no ships that is really for gas cloud harvesting I would like to see a subsystem that gets some sort of bonus to that.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.11 00:12:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Haldir Ravenclaw I wonder if the 5% effectiveness bonus to warfare links subsystem will be split between the races (so the Proteus would get 5% effectiveness to information warfare, Legion 5% to armoured warfare and so on)? Hopefully not so that each race can use all the types of warfare links but I get the feeling they will be split - looks like I'll finally have to train Amarr
on sisi, they're indeed split yes, i'm spreading 3x -28.125% armor-love with the legion right now - putting the gist back into logistics |
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.11 11:11:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:
Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.
Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...
Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.
Am I missing something?...
couple that lot with the utter worthlessness of the CPUE Efficiency Gate, and I think it's obvious that Tengu needs a fair old bit of tweaking. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
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Haldir Ravenclaw
Tenacious Tendencies
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Posted - 2009.04.11 15:03:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Haldir Ravenclaw I wonder if the 5% effectiveness bonus to warfare links subsystem will be split between the races (so the Proteus would get 5% effectiveness to information warfare, Legion 5% to armoured warfare and so on)? Hopefully not so that each race can use all the types of warfare links but I get the feeling they will be split - looks like I'll finally have to train Amarr
on sisi, they're indeed split yes, i'm spreading 3x -28.125% armor-love with the legion right now
Thanks for having a look! Not what I like to hear but should be fun. Looks like the Legion will be king for using armour warfare links with the Damnation a close (but significantly cheaper) second!
Now, where did I put those Amarr skillbooks... --- We want T2/Faction drone modules!
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.04.11 18:16:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Rawr Cristina There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:
Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.
Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...
Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.
Am I missing something?...
couple that lot with the utter worthlessness of the CPUE Efficiency Gate, and I think it's obvious that Tengu needs a fair old bit of tweaking.
i absolutly agree with both of you ... i dont know if the other racial subsytems are affected by this "bug" , but this is really annoying if you ask me
the covert ops subsystem also give a wrong bonus ; it says, it gives 5% damage on turrets and not 5% rof for launcher anymore, which should be fixed a.s.a.p
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.11 19:30:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:
Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.
Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...
Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.
Am I missing something?...
Yes you are missing something quite obvious.
The offensive subsystem for turrets give you and extra 365MW PG.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.04.12 00:22:00 -
[264]
Just read page 4 update:
covops cloak + immunity to bubbles... yeah another "cant kill me combo". Can we get cloak counters soon please? Or do we need to blob gates + spam jetcans and drones to catch those ships?
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.04.12 12:36:00 -
[265]
This may seem a silly question, but how come the various subsystems aren't all properly seeded all of the time, like virtually every other item on the market?
I'm intrigued by the Covert Ops subsystem - what is the motivation behind this? How does it avoid rendering the existing covert ships completely obsolete, other than price? I can see that with the Black Ops now being able to create covert cynos inside jammed systems, this is another ship to bring through, but what about everywhere else?
Originally by: CCP Nozh "Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
Will we see this make a comeback at any point? Much as I love the addition of a Khanid subsystem, I was rather looking forward to a laser platform with a bonus to tracking...
Originally by: CCP Nozh Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.
I sincerely wish you luck with that, though I'd argue it's akin to wishing the global economy regained confidence. Whilst perhaps slightly off-topic, do you still have a 'target' price you want to see it at (because certainly price has a balance impact, in terms of the likelihood that people will field an item), akin to the various numbers thrown around pre-Apocrypha? ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.12 14:21:00 -
[266]
Edited by: IceAero on 12/04/2009 14:24:04
Originally by: Lijhal
Originally by: Dallenovic
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level 7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level
I like the fact that the 5% damage is not restricted to a damage type on the Legion, but the Tengu completely beats it as it can use multiple weapons system with bonii and has an extra 2.5% rof per level which at level 5 would mean that the tengus damage modifier through rof = 1/0.625 = 1.6x dmg and the Legion is 1/0.75 = 1.333 thats 27% more damage not to mention that it has better range capabilities which is useful for HAMS, the Legion needs Velocity/ Flight time/ Explosion Velocity/ Radius bonus to be on par. Or do the Khanid thing and give it a 25m drone band width and 50m drone bay to deal with small stuff
the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?
so, no change here, there are fine as they should
oh wait ....
I still agree with Dallenovic that the khanid offensive subsystem needs some lovin...
it get's out damaged by the tengu by a large margin! but look at the Sacrilege vs. Cerberus, they do the SAME dps with missiles but the Cerb gets a range bonus, and the Sac gets to use all types of missiles. Oh and the Sac has 3 light drones!
The Khanid offensive subsystem simply needs a 3rd bonus.
Ideas:
+5mbits of drone bandwidth / level. and a 25m3 drone bay.
-----This would make it do equal damage as a HAM Tengu, but also out damage most laser-legion setups if you give it the 6th launcher
+2% to all armor resistances per level
-----Let us not forget that the Khanid ships have better resistances than the other t2 amarr ships
NOTE TO CCP: Please do Something with the Legion's drone subsystem! It gets out damaged by every other ship and combination (covops excluded). I say drop the bonus to laser cap usage, and make it a 5% damage bonus like the Proteus' drone subsystem has. (Should be this way for the amarr covops as well!!)
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.04.13 04:59:00 -
[267]
I believe if you are giving it the ability to warp cloaked and are giving it things related to tech 2 cruiser hulls, the Ishtar is one of those hulls. A 125m3 drone bandwidth option should be investigated. I know a lot of you will say "overpowered" but the Ishtar is not overpowered.
So please give us this option.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 10:22:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I believe if you are giving it the ability to warp cloaked and are giving it things related to tech 2 cruiser hulls, the Ishtar is one of those hulls. A 125m3 drone bandwidth option should be investigated. I know a lot of you will say "overpowered" but the Ishtar is not overpowered.
So please give us this option.
ROTFL.
Add also mini doomsday device for good measure...
Ishtar is already one of best HACs even in its current cpu-gimped form. Adding the ability to warp cloaked will make it way overpowered compared to both ishtar and... pilgrim. You are actually creating gallente pilgrim with more dps.
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Tibberg
Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 12:35:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Tibberg on 13/04/2009 12:34:57 The Loki
Specifically the Propulsion subsystems
I think its 175 m/s? and 5% bonus to agility?
OR
165 m/s, 5% bonus to agility AND immune to warp bubbles.
This is a no brainer. immunity to warp bubbles is totally worth 10 m/s. This needs fixing badly before it makes its way onto TQ -------------------------------------------------- CCP Navigator
C C P
Posted - 2009.04.01 10:43:00 - [279] I locked this thread BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Polinus
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.13 15:40:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Tibberg Edited by: Tibberg on 13/04/2009 12:34:57 The Loki
Specifically the Propulsion subsystems
I think its 175 m/s? and 5% bonus to agility?
OR
165 m/s, 5% bonus to agility AND immune to warp bubbles.
This is a no brainer. immunity to warp bubbles is totally worth 10 m/s. This needs fixing badly before it makes its way onto TQ
check the BASE agility of them both. The immune to warp bubble one has a VERY bad agility before the bonus.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 20:37:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Polinus
check the BASE agility of them both. The immune to warp bubble one has a VERY bad agility before the bonus.
It doesnt matter. All ships can warp in 10 seconds doing MWD-warp (it even works when you cloak after hitting MWD). So anything above this value is redundant.
And in current state of game it is impossible to catch cloaking ship within 10 seconds. Even tried to catch plated recon without using dictors? its (almost) impossible. The almost part is either bad luck from cloaker pilot (he lands near other ship thus cant cloak) or just objects spam around the gate (be it cans, corpses, wrecks, drones etc).
Creating ship that can evade bubbles you are de facto re-creating uncatchable cloaker situation with one small exception. There is no way to catch it if you want. Period. He either needs to get unlucky or you need to spam whole gate.
The story about "MWDing ceptor to decloak before he warps" is full of balls. Like i said above: 10 seconds from 0 to warp on any ship. Now lets see: ship clicks warp and spams cloak. 2 seconds before you see his position on screen, 3-4 seconds before yor ships starts moving there. Next 3seconds (so 6-7s total) till you are exactly at his spot (and thats with 4km/s ceptor who instantly took correct curse). You decloak him at 6th or 7th second of his 10 second warp. You need another 1-2 seconds to even start locking (server side delay). 1 second to lock and... another one for scrambler to kick in. At best you can hope to lock him and see him warp. And above situation happens when you are absolutely ready for him. BUT: if he uses mwd-warp trick then he already moved from his spot a bit thus ceptor has even worse chance of finding him...
IMO: stupid idea. Very stupid.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:52:00 -
[272]
I also think giving a ship cloak AND immunity to bubbles is a very bad idea. I am a heavy blockade runner user and I don't gate camp, so a ship like this would be something that would benefit me greatly, but even I, in my biased view about the subject, can't condone with this absurdity. Such a ship would be by all means invulnerable.
It is already bad enough that people can simply jump through choke points these days, which helped a lot to make most of low sec a desert, but adding a ship like this would be utter irresponsibility. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Ozkar
Decimus Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 20:16:00 -
[273]
I like the missile addition to the Legion, very nice one imho, so props there... but why do we lose the laser tracking to get that?
Covops cloaks and bubble immunity.... plz plz plz plz no maybe be (and its a huge maybe) covops cloaks but their tank/dps better be much less to justify it. By all eft fits I have made, a t3 tanks better than most Commandships, to give them a covops cloak is very overpowered imho.
Also, any reason why 90% of the sites in w-hole systems are grav sites? Seems it would be nice to have a couple more of the others, as they actually have something to do with t3 prod.... I would make a sig, but that would take time away from hunting. |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.15 06:09:00 -
[274]
Is it just me...
Or did the 4th subsystems not make it into the 1.1 patch?
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.15 07:38:00 -
[275]
Yay for adding a khandid subsystem to the legion ! Gives me more and more reasons to train for t2 HAM launchers.
but a very important question that arrises with this , will the legion be sexy khandid-black with blue windows and antennas etc ?!!
Because in my opinion it certainly should , it is by far the most attracktive thing to khandid ships , their awesome looks! they stole my sig :'( |
Jettisoned Can
Jenova's Witnesses
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:24:00 -
[276]
Originally by: CCP Nozh So, Apocrypha is out with 3 subsystems per category, we're now starting our next development cycle where we'll look at the fourth variation. There are already tons of good ideas floating around at the office, but before we proceed we'd like to hear your ideas.
What bonuses would you like to see on the fourth subsystems? -What other subsystems would you use it with? -How does is it differ from the other choices? -Drawbacks when fitted, if any?
Please keep the thread clean and stay on topic.
Update on page 4
I hate to be that guy, but did you even listen to our ideas? Out of all the suggestions made, you only listened to one that was asked for from multiple people. Only one person asked for warfare links, (though I doubt he wanted it on the defensive subsystem) only one person asked for bubble immunity, (and everyone ignored the naive suggestion) no one asked for a heat bonus, (that's a good idea though) and only one person asked for a probe launcher system.
Sure, tons of people asked for a cloaking system, but we were already told you were going to make one. However, not a single person wanted it as the offensive subsystem.
And quite a few asked for a Khanid offensive system, thank you for that. (but it still is lacking on the bonuses) _________________________ Did you really not have enough room for me? I'm only 1m¦. |
Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.15 21:27:00 -
[277]
Read patch notes
Sat open mouthed wondering how the idea of a cloaking, bubble immune ship could possibly be considered balanced.
Considering your confidence in the price of T3 falling I am pretty horrified at the prospect of fleets of these things running about with impunity.
Zos
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Arimathea Anthalas
Corp 1 Allstars PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.15 23:08:00 -
[278]
Can these ships jump using a Black Ops or not with the appropriate subsystem?
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:08:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Zostera Read patch notes
Sat open mouthed wondering how the idea of a cloaking, bubble immune ship could possibly be considered balanced.
Considering your confidence in the price of T3 falling I am pretty horrified at the prospect of fleets of these things running about with impunity.
Zos
That's two combat bonuses out the way, perhaps as a covert transporting device?
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Trevor Eve
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Posted - 2009.04.16 11:35:00 -
[280]
Have I just read the patch notes correctly.....
You can fit a cov ops cloak
AND
Be immune to bubbles?
.....
um... so how do we catch one?
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.04.16 12:59:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Trevor Eve Have I just read the patch notes correctly.....
You can fit a cov ops cloak
AND
Be immune to bubbles?
.....
um... so how do we catch one?
By using exploits. Convo spam, drone spam, can spam, corpse spam around gate. The more the better. Other than that? Nope, no counters available in game.
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BetaZ
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:33:00 -
[282]
Does anyone have problem with the Caldari covert module? +5% damage per level to medium hybrid while the unit gives 4 launchers? What gives here? Is this an indication of CCP gone amuck? Anyone with common sense still work for CCP?
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.04.16 15:00:00 -
[283]
Do we have intel on the "bonus" to warfair link's?
gonna be the deth of fleet commands slap on some command processors and run a whole rack /join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Jettisoned Can
Jenova's Witnesses
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:31:00 -
[284]
Originally by: BetaZ Does anyone have problem with the Caldari covert module? +5% damage per level to medium hybrid while the unit gives 4 launchers? What gives here? Is this an indication of CCP gone amuck? Anyone with common sense still work for CCP?
I think the only place the issue was reported was in this thread, which they obviously aren't reading. Seems like they created this thread to only have one person suggest what they were already planning on doing. That way, they can blame the user base when people get up in arms over the bad bonuses.
Either that, or they are worried about getting the 4th subsystems out in a reasonable time (for once) that they couldn't have a single developer spend one more day on it and just used what they already had done. _________________________ Did you really not have enough room for me? I'm only 1m¦. |
DaOpa
Amarr Static Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.16 23:28:00 -
[285]
Is this a Bug ? or Intended ?
Loki Electronics Emergent Locus Analyzer has
SIGNATURE RADIUS 150m
---- How does this work ? Defensive Subs have Sig Rad also .. does one superseed the other ?
Or would this be a mistake and needs to be removed?
---------- LP Store Database | T3 Ship DB |
Merina Taom
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Posted - 2009.04.19 12:23:00 -
[286]
However the new covert subsystems on sisi do not allow you to open covert cynos, just use a covert cloak. Decided to nerf it or missed the feature?
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Brixer
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2009.04.20 11:56:00 -
[287]
What the T3 ships need is a tiny SMA, so gang can change mods when in deep-deep w-space. Like a carrier, but with no chance of getting a real ship in the SMA. That would be awsome! Then your little gang can fight without gimping the ship with salvager, tracktor beams, codebreakers and whatnot.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.04.20 12:57:00 -
[288]
It's starting to feel like the Legion/Loki are simply NOT in the same firepower class as the Tengu/Proteus.
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar Quantum Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.20 17:12:00 -
[289]
"4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots."
Did this make the patch? can't seem to fit 'covert cyno' on sisi? |
Karrade Krise
Mid Knights
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Posted - 2009.04.22 15:48:00 -
[290]
I'm still waiting for them to give us a "Stealth Bomber" style set of bonuses for cloaking.
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.22 19:45:00 -
[291]
Quote: By this time in our minds, we were certain that now close to 3 weeks after release the market would be flooded with Tech3 ships and people would be bored with the 3 variations already in and would be anxiously awaiting the 4th. It seems the required ventures into Wormhole space, with the accompanying Sleeper encounters as well as the manufacturing involved, has proven to be quite the challenge even for the most seasoned of players.
Disconnect anyone?
You had the expac released and within a few weeks this thread started. If you thought that people would be wondering around in all areas of space in T3 ships you really aren't paying attention to your game, or so it seems. Do you not pay attention to history? How long was it until you found people galloping around in Battle Cruisers or better yet, Battleships after release? How long was it before T2 ships were a mainstay in fleets after release?
I take a look at T2 rigs and find that it's just another area where the Devs didn't complete the 'spit and polish' that is needed. T2 ships were made with only 2 rig slots and higher calibration. To me, that says that T2 ships were MEANT to equip T2 rigs. At the current cost of T2 rigs, there isn't much of an incentive to equip them with the minor improvement they offer by quadrupling the cost of a ship that isn't even insurable.
I see so much potential in your current endeavors but I don't see the follow through to get that potential. For years, many players have simply dealt with overly cumbersome UI's, bugs and procedures and instead of continuing the fruitless persuite of bug reporting they just state; "it's a feature, not a bug". |
Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.22 19:47:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Quesa on 22/04/2009 19:53:24 Forum lag double post ftw. |
Attrezzo Pox
Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:06:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Quesa
Disconnect anyone?
You had the expac released and within a few weeks this thread started. If you thought that people would be wondering around in all areas of space in T3 ships you really aren't paying attention to your game, or so it seems. Do you not pay attention to history? How long was it until you found people galloping around in Battle Cruisers or better yet, Battleships after release? How long was it before T2 ships were a mainstay in fleets after release?
I take a look at T2 rigs and find that it's just another area where the Devs didn't complete the 'spit and polish' that is needed. T2 ships were made with only 2 rig slots and higher calibration. To me, that says that T2 ships were MEANT to equip T2 rigs. At the current cost of T2 rigs, there isn't much of an incentive to equip them with the minor improvement they offer by quadrupling the cost of a ship that isn't even insurable.
I see so much potential in your current endeavors but I don't see the follow through to get that potential. For years, many players have simply dealt with overly cumbersome UI's, bugs and procedures and instead of continuing the fruitless pursuit of bug reporting they just state; "it's a feature, not a bug".
fyp
The answer is "not very long" people were gallivanting around in battleships less than a month after release. HACs took a bit longer but not Assault Frigs, an Interceptors (before Interdictors) were never in short supply after their release. In terms of time it took to learn, well many had to lvl their final prep skill up to 5 but lots had it to 5 already.
Honestly, what I think is really taking tech III a little time to catch on is the fact that it requires bigger ******* to see the process through all the way to the sweet end. You don't have to just get hold of a ship bp and rare ore, you have to kill sleepers, research many bps, invent, have a pos to make the components, then you can finally build the freaking thing. At that point you have to train up not one or two, but no less than 6 skills to fly it. All of those cost isk too..
yikes. *-------------------------* PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!! |
yakubiz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:17:00 -
[294]
hi there This issue might have been addressed already but i cant really read 10 pages in order to find it. Could somebody make it at least 125 of bandwidth for galente t3 becouse so far it cant take 5 heavy drones (like ishtar would) wich is pathetic if u try to make a dedicated drone carier.
And also it could be a good idea to make a similar to stealth bomber tech cruiser - so for example it can fit capital lounchers. (ddd is wanted but we all know it would never be done for the sake of balance)))))
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2009.04.26 20:37:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 26/04/2009 20:38:56 One thing that's always made me scratch my head is why you guys have BC's and heavy cruisers shooting with pop guns and throwing pebbles.
Move the cruise missiles and unpopular BB weapons such as 350mm rails to BC's and T3 cruisers.
But most of all and this goes for all t2+ ships make them accessable and something more than something shiney to collect in your hanger that can be used in fleet combat etc.
Few are willing to use high tech items in combat other than npc's ecause of the loss factor and the insane pricing of them in EVe which completly negates them being in the game in the first place.
That being speed up the conveyor belt for T2+ ships by alowing producers to produce them at reasonable prices for them to be used, and the players that can use them to do so in everyday use, and not worry about lossing their shirts when doing so.
4bill for a cruiser that can go poof in a few secs isn't sensible, same for the majority of t2+ ships.
After playing all these years what's the point of higher content if you make it so bone crushing to loose especially if your the older more casual player like myself?
Which should be one point of new content being in the game in the first place giving your older players something new, but allowing newer players a chance to access it.
It time it was sorted out.
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Qinoly
Gallente Remember Redemption
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Posted - 2009.04.27 12:51:00 -
[296]
Not alot is suggested on the industrial end for Tech 3. All T3 that is ingame now is aimed at pvp and if that stays that way.. then Apocrypha might just not have happened for the industrial players in eve. T3 expanders T3 stripminers T3 salvage mods T3 Line of ships to followup the Hulk (and its smaller brothers)
Many try to workout the attributes on each and every module they suggest.. I won't .. not my job, that is CCP's job. But do keep in mind that the customer base in EVE does not consist of just PVP pilots.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2009.04.27 21:50:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 27/04/2009 21:51:14 Personally I think introducing new tech levels as a ongoing thing should be a method of replacing bad design elements from previous years with the ultimate goal of phasing out out tech levels entirely, along with the bad design elements of the game.
But like I say I see little point in introducing any more items or any new tech level until CCP tackles the economy in eve that prevents high tech ships especially from being used in combat and general use rather than hanger trophies.
Not to mention as a method of keeping the database in check.
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Plestvarnis
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:27:00 -
[298]
I dont like updated subsystem for legion. Once it hade tracking bonus and than its gone for misiles? Pathetic... Lets make galente using misiles or projectile maybe? Its wrong, t3 should be specialized to the race and its original bonuses.
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Dalton West
Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.05.26 05:52:00 -
[299]
i would love to see a bomb launcher subsystem
+3 high slots + 3 launchers +1 med
Can fit Siege/Cruise missile launchers 10% damage bonus to siege/cruise missile launchers (whatever reduction required to balance)% for power use |
Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.27 00:12:00 -
[300]
Edited by: Quesa on 27/05/2009 00:12:12 Trying to keep this thread up on the first page to continue to highlight how stupid their idea was to give a ship the ability to warp cloaked and have bubble immunity.
I just keep thinking it was an overdue April fools joke because I never thought the Devs would actually do something so stupid.
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.27 00:14:00 -
[301]
Edited by: Quesa on 27/05/2009 00:13:55 Who here thinks the only reason CCP wanted to nerf module duration with cloaking to make the new T3 Sploit-ship more attractive?
/tinfoil
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ollobrains
Caldari State Inc. People for Organised Peace
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:58:00 -
[302]
wtb t3 modules or ammo
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Psyk
Amarr Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.27 11:26:00 -
[303]
Originally by: ollobrains wtb t3 modules or ammo
This
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.27 16:59:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Quesa Edited by: Quesa on 27/05/2009 00:12:12 Trying to keep this thread up on the first page to continue to highlight how stupid their idea was to give a ship the ability to warp cloaked and have bubble immunity.
I just keep thinking it was an overdue April fools joke because I never thought the Devs would actually do something so stupid.
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Vecila
Live and Learn Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 17:37:00 -
[305]
Not really stupid at all, it's the product of a flawed design. The problem is, if t3 was as good as t2, then there would only be 4 cruiser in use in game. As it stands a t3 hull fitted as a recon will be vastly inferior to a t2 recon ship coupled by the fact that their modular state ment they could be easily broken and shifted, was broken before release by the fat that rigs (the single thing ever well fit cruiser carry) are destroyed.
This seems like a stop gap to me, giving them an ability that makes them truly unique because if they make them a true alternative then t2 becomes obsolete. If they don't then they have to do things t2 can't, which then means that they arn't the alternative, they're in a class of their own.
Rock < ccp > hard place.
At the very least they should make rigs survive if people decide to dismantle and ship their ship, it was after all ment to be one of the key advantage of the class.
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.28 17:27:00 -
[306]
Back to the front we go.
CCP, re-think your irrational decision to allow a ship to be immune to warp bubbles and warp cloaked at the same time.
Try to think of something new and inventive instead of slapping the 2 worst suggestions together.
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Amrumm
Rhetorical Devices
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Posted - 2009.05.28 18:28:00 -
[307]
With regard to the propulsion subsystem, will those ships still be sucked into bubbles, or even immune from that effect?
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Witchking
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.04 14:36:00 -
[308]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey!
Sorry for not being very vocal on the forums, I have been reading them, but haven't really given myself time to post. Here's a small update.
Note: bonuses might change around slightly but you should get the general idea and goal of each subsystem.
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
4th Electronic Subsystem:
A simple CPU bonus to scan probe launchers, allowing you to fit an expanded probe launcher with ease, along with a nice 10% increase to scan strength of probes, making it an very good scanning platform. In addition to this they'll give a tractor beam range / velocity bonus.
These are in authoring right now, so you can expect to see them on Singularity very soon. I'm working on getting the subsystems re-seeded, should happen very soon.
Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.
Comments!
What happened to the implementation of covert cyno offensive systems... apparently now the T3 cruiser can't light a covert cyno because you 'made a mistake' with the description?
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