Hi CCP!

I love the new inventory system and I see where you're going with it. However, with it's current release, you'll make a LOT of your existing customers mad. Please, in order to avoid a huge protest etc, try to keep things similar to how we're used to using them, yet enhance our day to day tasks. As I said, the new system is better, but please don't remove our old functionality that we are used to.

MS didn't confine us to a single explorer window.





1. Confining us to a single instance of our inventory is too drastic of a change. Please allow multiple instances of that inventory window.

2. Create Simlinks to familiar shortcuts. MS never removed the taskbar or the startmenu, they added on to it. Removing someone's ship hangar and not creating a sim-link to the inventory section is going to frustrate more than make people happy.

3. Naming of corporate tabs.

Did you saw WIN 8???

THe new inventory system is fine. HOWEVER, you need to add the ability to bookmark a split ships menu. right now, you can break different views of your inventory into seperate windows, simulating the old system. however, you cannot then pin them to your neocom. players would be much happier if you could create neocom shortcuts to customs inventory views, for maximum usability. until then, people are just going to emo about having to use a new system which is almost robust and adaptive, but is missing that final inch that it needs to go from overly complex to extremely robust.

allowing people to pin the windows that we break off with custom views as their own neocom shortcuts would allow players not only to recreate an older system that they already know, but would allow even more new options, like players who would want neocom shortcuts for corp hangers, filtered inventory views or any number of other options.

1st you people tried to kill the neo neocom, and now the new item window?

you people make me sick

1st you people tried to kill the neo neocom, and now the new item window?

you people make me sick

If you're going to contribute to this thread, please do so constructively. The new inventory system is good, it is a step in the right direction. Right now it's bad though.

if you took the time to read the thread you would know that that is not what we are doing at all. now shut the **** up.

The new inventory system is utterly useless, totally horrendous, it's like going back to the very first GUI systems and even they were better

or to be more accurate/elaborate, it currently is a more robust and customizable system, but certain (absent) UI elements make it so you have to re-work the system every time you try to find anything/do certain basic functions, when we should be able to tailor the system to our needs and then nail it down that way, making it an improvement rather than a headache in which we need to reinvent the wheel every time we switch ships. only make us reinvent the wheel once the first time we use it.

and I quote



I have seen the same said about windows 7, how can anyone really think windows 95 had better navigation than windows 7?

You can revert it back to a conventional windows interface.

I like the new system for the most part.

The negative I have (that I came on here looking for the "new inventory" thread to mention) is the lack of multi-select on the filters. I can only assume they've programmed it as an "AND" statement rather than an "OR" statement, so that when you click BOTH "Ammunition" AND "Modules" it filters EVERYTHING out and shows NOTHING, as oppose to what I would've expected... the ability to see my Ammo and Modules while hiding everything else.

tbh i expected that as an "and" and tbh i think that is the way most filters work in my experience.

I don't think you've quite understood what I'm getting at. I don't think I explained it very well.

The problem with doing it the way they've done it is that there isn't a single item in the entire game that is both a module AND ammunition, so multiselecting the filters will never yield any results at all. There will always be nothing there when 2 filters are selected.

Unless they plan to bring in the facility to throw our turrets at the enemy when we're out of ammo.

Just make it optional, so user can disable or enable old / new system.


In windows 8 ?
NO YOU CAN'T, it's only that metro stupid squares.
You can't go back in Windows 8.

there are custom filters. you can do it by metalevel, cost, etc. so there are definitely filter combos that are more complex.

[quote=Jiji Hamin]
Yes, and that's all great, but even with the custom filters you can't filter your inventory to only show BOTH modules AND ammo at the same time.

I put that on the OP as a potential bug.

Please be sure to put that in a bug report as well. Hopefully the UI team sees this thread and not just follow the 50page dev blog.

The task bar still exists, as I said originally they never removed it, they improved + enhanced it.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/29/2832943/windows-8-new-start-button-hands-on-pictures-video

I've updated the 1st post.

Please give us back separate windows for items and ships.

The new inventory screen is nice, but it's nowhere near as functional as the current one. If it's not broken, don't fix it.Gäó

this.

if the change was for the better id be all for it, but this 'new' crap is a step back... it really makes me think you guys at ccp dont play eve, as all your doing with this is making people work harder and do more things to get the same results.

First, shift click allows for two windows to be open. This isn't intuitive and I did put on the first post to have an option put in to allow for us to always open more than one window.

The current live inventory system is extremely broken. However, many people who log in on a daily basis don't deal with corp hangars where thousands of items are involved. When you star dealing with not hundreds, thousands of items in a single container, EVE starts breaking really bad. It is for the better, however it's also change and many people have difficulty adjusting to change.

Have you ever attempted to open a can with a bunch of bookmarks in it? Try it sometime and watch EVE take a dump.

I'm not a fan of this new system, I think the previous posts have outlined my gripes with it perfectly. What I don't understand is why they don't have this replace the assets screen instead of the ships/items window. The window would be even more universal than the inventory window now, showing not only things where you're at but also in other stations, CCP could just add a new subtree for 'other stations' or something. People that like the new system can use the assets window for everything while others, like me, can keep using the existing windows. Hell, if this replaced the assets screen I might even like that.

The new Inventory screen would make a fantastic replacement for the Assets window.

It is a horrid replacement for the Ships and Items windows; it lacks the basic functionality inherent in those two separate windows.

I logged into sisi and am trying it out. For the love of god do not replace our current UI with this!!!!! I cant even open my orca corp hangers in a separate window, and I dont like having to spawn my custom windows with shift clicking. And when I dock, I cant just keep my current windows open, I have to reuse one of them to start going down a list to start spawning more... I hate this. I cant say this enough. this is not a step forward for my inventory management. Release this as a new feature that does not replace my current windows, or don't release it at all.

What functionality exactly?

Being able to drag a bunch of items from one location to another and immediately see the updated list of items in both.

Noriko, Thank you heaps for pointing those out. I thought I had kept up with it all, guess I missed it in the info overload haha.

Thanks Muchly.

The Devs wrote that it is not yet final and not yet merged with the assets window iirc.

Since it is rather new, I had initially some issues figuring out how to actually use the inventory UI.

Can items be repackaged at a POS, yet?

Haven't had the time yet, to go onto Sisi and set one up. I did pop on to look at the new Inventory UI, and was horrified by it, but change is good so I'll just have to get used to it.

There are two important sorting/filtering features missing.

Activate more than one filter at once with an OR condition. e.g. Show Guns and Ammo without the need to create a new filter that does it. (Activate Guns filter and activate Ammo filter)

Reverse filtering. This way you can search for the crap in your hangar or just for stuff you have no filter for.

While many proclaim the improved functionality is great, you make cargo management tedious. You need to ADD functionality while not SUBTRACTING functionality. So many little things are being lost that this is shaping up to be another 'Incarna with Door' event. If CCP is at all being honest that it is listening to its players, if you have learned anything in the last year, you will put this on hold until it is better or you will address the usability issues before May 22.

1st you people tried to kill the neo neocom, and now the new item window?

you people make me sick

Edit:
I'm all for having a button for ships and a button for items and other shortcuts createable on the neo neocom. Since the neo neocom can customized to your liking I'm pretty sure this functionality your asking for is already in the game.

Also I'm sure by release it will remember your windows inside and in space, I'm pretty sure a dev already confirmed. And that it's not server side! So stop complaining, now if all of your cache gets cleared, or you log into we've from a friends computer, your item windows will still be in the same spot as they were at home.

This new items window combined with the neo neocom, and server side settings means the end of losing everything when you have to re-install eve, or play on a new computer some soon. The tech put into the windows will allow for your overview and such to be tied to the eve servers instead of your eve client. I mean, how amazing is that?

And as long as we can set up our own neocom list of links and windows it'll work jst like windows 7. I have the little task bar on the left of every window I open. And it's incredibly useful. Don't you people remember windows 3.1? or windows 95? there was no easy navigation. So to the OP, I'm not hating on your post, it's some other people in this thread.... They can't take an obvious upgrade to usability because they fear change. And it's good to make sure it's as useful as possible, but everything your asking for is already there, so have some faith.

Edit:read dev comments in the dev blog thread. The build is just unfinished on SiSi. As long as we get a different UI *neocompluswindows* for space and for station, everything is all good right?

please excuse my tone at 1st, the neo neocom was held back a whole year by comments like that one guy in thread. I want to see this thing finished. And not abandoned. eve really needs it.

[quote=MadMuppet]...

A genuine question: Do the Devs that came up with this actually play the game ? At all ? Ever ?

This is one of my biggest issues. It's an inventory UI. It shouldn't have a learning curve, it should simply be intuitive. The inventory system on SiSi is not intuitive at all.

Not being able to open more than one window seemed completely anti-EVE. I love how I can have all my cargo containers open, my ship bays, my items, all that; have them with nice big icons for quick and easy recognition. It's a great, simple UI. If there's a way to do any of that on SiSi, I have no idea. I couldn't be bothered playing around with it for long enough to try and figure it all out; mostly in hopes that it will be vastly improved upon before it's actually implemented.

I haven't been on SiSi in a couple days now and can't log onto it right now (is it down?), so hopefully there have been some improvements.

New windows are still possible, all it takes is Shift + Left Click on one of the tree items

That's bad, though - that's a regression in functionality.

If I want to have multiple windows open to use the system like the current one, I should be able to shift-click on two cans from my station items window - just like double-clicking on two different cans opens two windows now.

I've spent more time messing with it, but the capacity bar still takes up too much space, and the minimum size is not small enough.

I don't see any need to increase the size of things that are already perfectly readable as they are. Screen real estate is already at a ridiculous premium in EVE as it is. Do not make the problem even worse by increasing minimum sizes for windows from their current state.

When I'm in space, if I want access to all of my assets everywhere I will open the Assets window. Until then, I just want to see the inside of my cargo hold, and I want it to act as it currently does now: I want it to fit into my carefully-tailored-to-my-needs window setup, and I don't want all the extra bells and whistles on it. I don't want all this extra stuff. I don't want the tree view, I don't want this huge capacity indicator that implies I'm blind and can't see or read anything, and I don't want to be told that I can no longer fit the window into the place it has lived for -four years- on each and every one of my clients across all of my characters, because suddenly it needs a little more space for a feature I would rather have deactivated on that particular window.

Don't get me wrong: The new system is a huge improvement overall. But I think it is a terrible design choice to force it across all container windows. Allow the user to disable all of those features on certain types of windows where we have no use for them, or else the feature is not helping streamline our user experience - it is hindering it.

And finally, yes, customisation is very important, though I think at this stage, CCP is probably iterating on basic functionality and design before delving into more advanced (but needed) features.

The problem is that some of the customisation that is currently missing is basic functionality, and a lot of it has to do with the lack of proper multi-window support (and no, being able to shift-click to open new windows isn't it GÇö it still doesn't actually support multiple windows in any useful manner).

The fundamental issue with this new inventory system is that it thinks that being unified is an inherently good thing. It isn't. It's good for things that work well when unified, but there are a crapton of inventory management tasks when that is the exact opposite of what you want. If your workspace is entirely static, the new system kind of works (quirk such as missing locations aside), but the instant you have any kind of dynamic management GÇö when you need to open a lot of things at once to do work across multiple inventories and mix-and-match what's available to you, or when you constantly open and close new containers GÇö it falls flat on its face, because it assumes that it's a single-window environment when these kinds of tasks demand multiple windows. All shift-clicking does is help set up such a static workspace; it does not in any way help with a dynamic workspace (in fact, it just makes things worse).

This unawareness of the need and usefulness of separate windows is also, I feel, the root cause of some of the UI bloat that is going on (such as the much enlarged space meter): it's there because the inventory system is assumed to only show one thing at a time, at which point the information relayed by that meter is usefulGǪ but once you go to a multi-window setup, that information is no longer remotely as relevant because the multi-window setup in and of itself provides much of the same information. And that's before we even ask why it had to be enlarged to begin with.

I disagree with the requirement of multiple windows for inventory management

And we disaggre with you, thx bye.

Part of customisation requests is to be able to tailor an interface into particular workflows.

I like my workflows with less windows, like how I like web browsing with tabs and not an ungodly number of windows like the bad old days of IE6. *shudders*

Also, note I said requirement. I disagree with the requirement of, not the existence or implementation of multiple windows for file/inventory management.

What is wrong with being able to do tasks with less windows? I think it is perfectly valid to want to be able to do something with just a single window versus 2 or more. For some things, it would be quicker if all it took was a single window. If you want multiple windows, that is just fine too. Customisation and all.

Also, nothing wrong with giving feedback in a feedback thread "thx bye"

I like my workflows with less windows, like how I like web browsing with tabs and not an ungodly number of windows like the bad old days of IE6. *shudders*

Did you often drag items around from one browser window to the other?

The inventory UI is more akin to an OS UI, not a browser UI. Navigating OSX or Windows without being able to open multiple windows is just about the most ridiculous thing I could ever imagine.

The new UI is, overall, nice. It has HUGE basic functionality problems, however, when you compare it to the current one.

GÇó Much larger window size.
GÇó Shift-click is not intuitive like double-click.
GÇó You can't have separate "docked" windows that are always there when you dock up.
GÇó A whole mess of in-flight inconveniences.

Do NOT change an interface unless you can replicate the basic functionality of the old one.

I disagree with the requirement of multiple windows for inventory management, but I'll explain what I mean by that. Firstly, a single window could still display multiple holds through multiple panes, tabs, etc.

I don't see why having multiple windows is a must when to me, constantly managing and repositioning windows just to move things around isn't really my idea of a good UI.

What is wrong with being able to do tasks with less windows?

CCP, why did you include mod/ship worth when hovering over them? Do you not realise that this will be bad for trading? Too much transparency = bad for trade.

People can look it up in the market if they want to. You claim that eve's economy is one of ccp's biggest assets, yet this /o\

We've already lost an interesting OTC market when faction moved to market. Not complaining about that, but you just don't get it.

I don't know about you guys but I dont want more than one window of any kind open at any time.

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

I don't know about you guys but I dont want more than one window of any kind open at any time.

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

as long as I can dock and open my hangar and ships window with a single click, and open every thing else with just 2 clicks, like now, and I don't have to play a game with every window that is created, and they remember their states, I will be happy. This stuff is no where near that.

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

Ships and hanger windows can be stuck to the station UI, That is the way I have had it from day one It should be a standard setting in the UI.

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

Guys, honestly, the teams and I appreciate the feedback, and we do read it.

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way. Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

Please do keep the usability feedback coming though - for instance, the behaviour of using "loot all" and then having an extra cargo window - this is the kind of use issue that can be dealt with.

Is CCP aware that this is not nearly ready to go live soon, and needs a lot of work to allow it to more closely emulate the current system?

Guys, honestly, the teams and I appreciate the feedback, and we do read it.

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way. Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

Look at his tagline, He's the QA Director. That should answer your question quite thoroughly. I mean, look at all the past expansions that were bug ridden and seemed to escape QA even though they were pointed out months in advance by players on the test server. I'm quite sure an official email has already been sent saying "Everythign is great, we are good to go for the expansion. Some minor issues have cropped up but they can fixed in a future(tm) patch!"

Evolving Software? Sure fine. But tools need to retain basic principals and functionality. Just taking a basic functioning tool and replace it with "new" doesn't mean you've replaced it with "better" necessarily. (MSWindows has proven that concept over and over.) Taking a stone wheel and upgrading it to a steel hub with rubber tire is an improvement but doesn't change the design or functionality. That's positive evolution.
But what we have here is a round wheel that has been replaced with an octagonal shape with an off-center axle hole. Sure it still kinda of works, but it's hard to think that it's an improvement. You've made the functional use of the tool harder to complete.
That's why people are upset. (imho)

Yes, we do. Except we have to jump through extra hoops to do it.

Instead of double-clicking on one can to open that, then double-clicking on another can, which is the fast and efficient way to do such a thing, you have to double-click on one can, go rummaging through the tree list, find the can you want (which is already RIGHT THERE next to the one you just double-clicked if you'd use the station hangar interface!), then shift-click it to open a new window.

... Yeah, that's totally more efficient than the current system. Sorry, no. Four clicks in quick succession will always be faster than double-click + move mouse to new window, navigate through tree list, shift-click. If I'm trying to look at containers in other stations, fine, maybe it's more efficient. But not if they're in the same station.

It still doesn't address the problem of the new system wasting screen real estate that's already at a premium comparable to water in the middle of a desert.

I like the concept. I do not like the implementation that forces me to have more wasted screen real estate to do things I don't want to do.

When I am in space:
- I want to see my ship's cargo.
- I want a quick reference of what's in my cargo, how much space it takes up, and how much space I have remaining.
- I do NOT want to see every container I have everywhere.
- I do NOT want this window to suddenly take up more space than it did before because someone thinks that the capacity bar needs to be 2-3x as thick, or that the filter box needs to be bigger, or that for some reason I actually care how much ISK is in my hold.

When I am in a station:
- I do NOT want to have to move this specifically-for-my-cargohold window around and resize it 50 zillion times a day because I tried to open a can by double-clicking - the STANDARD EXPECTED ACTION FOR OPENING SOMETHING - and the interface decided that my tiny window being used for my cargo hold should suddenly try to display the contents of a can I use to store all sorts of ammunition or modules.
- I do NOT want to have to take that tiny cargo window, open up the tree view, find the can I want to open, and then shift-click it to open it in a new window when I could just DOUBLE-CLICK the damn thing in my hangar and have it open in a new window already. And then, to top it off, turn off the tree view and re-shrink the window back to where it was.

This is a HORRIBLE user experience. You have removed existing functionality and replaced it with a horrifically inefficient mechanism to imitate that functionality.

It's very simple, but it seems we have to repeat ourselves multiple times to make it clear how poorly this new system has been thought out from that end:
- If I double-click on a container, I want that container to open in a new window. With this new system, I cannot do this anymore. This is lost functionality. Now I have to jump through hoops to open multiple inventory windows.
- I want windows to stay at the size I want them to be at. No larger, no smaller. With this new system, I cannot do this anymore. This is lost functionality. Now I have to deal with windows that cannot be made as small as I need them to be, and that have to be constantly resized as a side effect of the first point.
- I want these windows to show information I need in a tasteful, space-efficient manner. With this new system, I cannot do this anymore. This is lost functionality. Now I have to deal with ISK values I don't give a flying **** about, capacity bars that are three times larger than they need to be as if I couldn't read them before, and filter text entry fields that were arbitrarily increased in size.

Again: I like the concept of the new interface. But the implementation is terrible, removes and/or obscures existing functionality, and is one step forward visually but two steps backwards in terms of usability for many people.

Either allow us to say "**** no, I'm not using this" and have the option to continue using the old system, or actually pay attention to and address our concerns.

Look at his tagline, He's the QA Director. That should answer your question quite thoroughly. I mean, look at all the past expansions that were bug ridden and seemed to escape QA even though they were pointed out months in advance by players on the test server. I'm quite sure an official email has already been sent saying "Everythign is great, we are good to go for the expansion. Some minor issues have cropped up but they can fixed in a future(tm) patch!"

Guys, honestly, the teams and I appreciate the feedback, and we do read it.

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way. Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

Please do keep the usability feedback coming though - for instance, the behaviour of using "loot all" and then having an extra cargo window - this is the kind of use issue that can be dealt with.

Guys, honestly, the teams and I appreciate the feedback, and we do read it.

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way. Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

Please do keep the usability feedback coming though - for instance, the behaviour of using "loot all" and then having an extra cargo window - this is the kind of use issue that can be dealt with.

Interesting analogy . I personally look at it more like the evolution from a Flintstones model of car (totally functional, pretty basic) to a modern day automobile - there's a ton of bells and whistles on it, you're not sure if you need or want them all (but hey they're free so might as well take them), the only drawback is you need to learn how to drive it!

Interesting analogy . I personally look at it more like the evolution from a Flintstones model of car (totally functional, pretty basic) to a modern day automobile - there's a ton of bells and whistles on it, you're not sure if you need or want them all (but hey they're free so might as well take them), the only drawback is you need to learn how to drive it!

Guys, honestly, the teams and I appreciate the feedback, and we do read it.

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way. Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

Please do keep the usability feedback coming though - for instance, the behaviour of using "loot all" and then having an extra cargo window - this is the kind of use issue that can be dealt with.

Is it me or does that sound like the 1000 dollar jeans speech a certain person made a while back.

Imho the new system is no where near as useable as the current system on TQ, yes it has many features - they just aren't very easy to use. Personally I don't like getting into my car by climbing through the trunk!

See what I mean?

Incarna vibe is all I'm getting from this right now.

It needs to be fixed and until it is this shouldn't go anywhere near TQ.

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

So I have a philosophical question that I am curious about. Why are so many people intent on interacting with items via the tree view and not via the ships window properly?

We actually implemented double clicking to board ships, so you can open the ships window and board ships by double clicking. This is much faster than dragging them to the station scene?

Finally a big concern that is being raised again and again, is multiple window usage. We are already investigating this and hope that we can fix it in time.

However on a personal note, every time I have to go back from the Unified Inventory to multiple windows, I cringe. We understand the usability concerns raised here, but once people have been given some time to acclimatize themselves, we strongly believe that this will provide the best user experience.

I must be dumb, but how do I find Deliveries in the new Unified Inventory ?

-snip-

Great post.
In fact, awesome post!

Now i really want to see who dares to say "incarna" again.

It's clear these guys are still working on this thing and they're really listening to feedbacks.

As i said, it needs polishing but i already prefer it to the old one in fact i prefer playing on sisi than tq right now for that reson.

Great stuff.

So I have a philosophical question that I am curious about. Why are so many people intent on interacting with items via the tree view and not via the ships window properly?

We actually implemented double clicking to board ships, so you can open the ships window and board ships by double clicking. This is much faster than dragging them to the station scene?

Specifically on your question though, we are also investigating this, but it is not trivial and also unlikely to make it in for Inferno.

Guys, honestly, the teams and I appreciate the feedback, and we do read it.

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way. Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

Please do keep the usability feedback coming though - for instance, the behaviour of using "loot all" and then having an extra cargo window - this is the kind of use issue that can be dealt with.

How do you open container? How do you open cargo hold of a ship? Do you always expect people to board your ship before you open the cargo hold of it? Then answer is so clear that I don't even need to tell it to you.

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

Half of the observations in this thread are valid and should be considered for tweaking.

The other half appear to come from people that either haven't actually used the system, or don't understand how a simple tree view works.

However on a personal note, every time I have to go back from the Unified Inventory to multiple windows, I cringe. We understand the usability concerns raised here, but once people have been given some time to acclimatize themselves, we strongly believe that this will provide the best user experience.

Read this and understand what you're reading http://i45.tinypic.com/2yunfb6.jpg

They are just promising to polish up the door when most of us would rather not see it at all! ill say it again.. INCARNA!... Now how long untill they realize this and give us our old spinny spinny hangers back, like last time.

But it's not the same thing!

It's nothing at all like incarna!

This is just slander!

Yea... this time I wont even bother shooting the (amarr) statue. I just take the short way out and retire to waiting for email with some free game time and apology from CCP. That is if this thing goes live without proper multi window support.

This is just a feature; you may like it or not but comparing it to incarna is absolutely bonkers.

Yes. The problem is, this is innately unconventional and quite bothersome when you actually break it down.

A double click requires only one hand. Browsing, clicking, dragging; this is all down with one hand. By forcing an arbitrary "shift-click" command, you're making the interface two handed instead of one. That's double the hands. What if I'm holding a pizza, or a beer, or a cat, or what have you?

Jokes aside, it really is a very serious degression in basic interface logistics. Completely unintuitive, and counter to what every one who has ever used a GUI in their life will expect. Adding a second hand to what should be a one-hand command really is a huge no-no.

I'm also very happy to see a sudden swell of CCP posters in this thread, thank you for your feedback!

Please i beg you.

Leave and never return.

Please.

This is ridiculous; you guys comparing this to incarna are out of your mind.

This new inventory system is obviously unpolished and it needs some work but the idea is quite good.

All in all, even if it need some tweaking, it's a clear improvement over the old system.

But this doesnt even matter.

Incarna was bad beacause ccp wanted to ruin the idea behind eve ----> spaceships (and adding the pay to win).

This is just a feature; you may like it or not but comparing it to incarna is absolutely bonkers.

Please stop posting; or better ye: stop playing.

It is a feature what breaks the game just as efficiently as removing hangar did. New version works but it won't be even close as convenient to use. I've tested it enough in test server to tell, that there won't be a day I would do any industry related tasks with my alts using the unified window if the old functionality isn't there.

This will be big enough game changer for me to say good bye rather than **** myself off daily trying to tolerate what they did.

If you get orgasm from me doing that - good for you. Remember to keep some hand wipes near.

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way.

Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

On the note of a few of the issues raised here;

However on a personal note, every time I have to go back from the Unified Inventory to multiple windows, I cringe. We understand the usability concerns raised here, but once people have been given some time to acclimatize themselves, we strongly believe that this will provide the best user experience.

We actually implemented double clicking to board ships, so you can open the ships window and board ships by double clicking. This is much faster than dragging them to the station scene?

The queries are exclusive, no inclusive. If you have one filter that is Ammunition and a separate one that is Turrets. If you tick them both, the system is looking for something that is BOTH a Turret AND Ammo so it will find nothing. On the other hand you could create a filter

Group is Charge All
Group is Module All

Match
Any (instead of All)

You can drill down further if you like.

Thankfully Tippia still has the patience to present all the problems and facts in calm and non offending way. I lost that ability after few days of ignorance and got tired sinking the nail in with gentle blows. It is really unfortunate that it takes almost a week and sledgehammer to even get some thinking going.

Dunno if anyone already mentioned that.. but have you thought of using the middle mouse button for that? I mean, we ARE making it closer to Windows Explorer, why not apply that idea, too?

Left Click -> Open Window, create new if none exists
Middle click -> New Window
(Right click -> Menu)

Maybe add Inventory "bookmarks", and show them the same way you show browser bookmarks on the NeoCom. These should remember the Inventory path and ideally the window position/size.


On a more general note:
I can really feel with you right now! You put effort in this feature, thought it was all brilliant (and so did I, at first, while reading the dev blog) and now you see everyone complaining and beeing terribly mad. I think many of us have been in situations like that.
But just follow up on the issues mentioned and everything will be fine.

Our intention is to improve the user experience not hamper it.

Also kudos to Tippia who is making the most compelling arguments on the behalf of many of you. We are just human and are just looking for a conversation with the players (we want it!). But the old system is not coming back, but with your help we can make this new system what you guys need it to be.

Hey all, I'd just like to say, that our intention is not to ignore you, your feedback or indeed appear condescending. The feedback you are providing us is proving really, really valuable and we are working to resolve the issues you guys raise.

Some of the points being brought up are extremely valid, but we cannot implement them at the tip of the hat. Someone mentioned that we appear to be ignoring the feedback, we are not and we are already acting on it internally.

So to summarize, thank you for taking the time to write your replies, come to the forums, file bug reports, go to the test servers and show us this system is a close to live environment.

Our intention is to improve the user experience not hamper it.

Also kudos to Tippia who is making the most compelling arguments on the behalf of many of you. We are just human and are just looking for a conversation with the players (we want it!). But the old system is not coming back, but with your help we can make this new system what you guys need it to be.

Our intention is to improve the user experience not hamper it.

At this point actions speak more than words. I can give you hint though - the stuff you have at SiSi now is not an improvement.

This shall be my last statement related to this issue for now. During Inferno launch day we will see how much truth your sentence had in it.

ALT - C - Inventory
ALT - N - Ships
ALT - G - Items

In addition to this, there is a shortcut to go directly to your Cargohold, this is not assigned to a key by default, but you could set it to ALT - C (ESC - Shortcuts - Window). We discussed setting ALT - C by default to Cargohold, but ultimately it is just a default setting and users can change the key bindings.

So I have a philosophical question that I am curious about. Why are so many people intent on interacting with items via the tree view and not via the ships window properly?

We actually implemented double clicking to board ships, so you can open the ships window and board ships by double clicking. This is much faster than dragging them to the station scene?

... Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system...

After weeks of research and multiple rejected hypotheses we came up with what we are certain is the correct answer: a single window (please tell us itGÇÖs the right one)

Or in the words of certain CCP employee "we watch what you do, not what you say".
So far, actions speed louder than words.

Hey guys after the latest round of updates IGÇÖve found a sort of workaround, itGÇÖs a bit of a GÇÿkludgeGÇÖ but it works for me.
I donGÇÖt know if this is by design or by accident.

So I do as suggested and set up a shortcut for GÇÿOpen cargo holdGÇÖ, I used [Ctrl] + [\], as itGÇÖs close together on the keyboard (UK English).

Next while docked I open the new UI, I then drag this into a small window with the tree minimised and park it on the left above my chat windows. IGÇÖm using this window as my cargo hold window.

Now from my merged GÇÿItemsGÇÖ window I right click and holding down shift, click open container. This opens a new single window based on the already open GÇÿCargo HoldGÇÖ

Next I open another container and as expected it cascades over the first opened container.

I drag this opened window around and find it pops into the first container window as a new tabbed window.

So I try other containers and they all open as tabs in the first container window.

I close down everything and try re-opening, and everything (as long as I open the GÇÿCargo HoldGÇÖ first, then the other windows), drops back to the same place as I first opened them including as a set of tabbed windows.

I exit the client and restart it again and itGÇÖs remembered everything including where my cargo hold resided and the windows should be tabbed.

Not as good as the original individual windows but it could work, have a try and see what you think. On my small laptop screen it does fit all the open windows I need in the space I have. Will try this later on my game machine.

It also remembers to keep the cargo hold open when I undock/re-dock and where it should be placed when I open/close it with the shortcut.

So your getting there CCP, keep on tweaking.

Please stop posting, your ~angry words~ are not helping. Also, if you are attempting to troll, all you are doing is screwing up a decent UI change. So, go away.

Hey all, I'd just like to say, that our intention is not to ignore you, your feedback or indeed appear condescending. The feedback you are providing us is proving really, really valuable and we are working to resolve the issues you guys raise.

Some of the points being brought up are extremely valid, but we cannot implement them at the tip of the hat. Someone mentioned that we appear to be ignoring the feedback, we are not and we are already acting on it internally.

So to summarize, thank you for taking the time to write your replies, come to the forums, file bug reports, go to the test servers and show us this system is a close to live environment.

Our intention is to improve the user experience not hamper it.

Also kudos to Tippia who is making the most compelling arguments on the behalf of many of you. We are just human and are just looking for a conversation with the players (we want it!). But the old system is not coming back, but with your help we can make this new system what you guys need it to be.

A good post.

Akin to what affinity is saying about incursions (they were nerfed too hard and now they want to listen to the community).

It's clear that ccp,as a whole, has changed and it's much better than a year ago.

So, to the whiners, keep whining and proposing idea but stop being so negative.

That's all i want to say, as i personally like the new ui already, stop being so cynical about the devs: they're better than 1 year ago.

So like it or tough seems to be the general message from CCP. Nice

Thanks

Tal

people whining they cant see there ship icons... umm am i the only one that clicks the ships header in the tree and ... GASP sees all the ship icons?

Everyone talking about multiple windows - you know that shift clicking opens up a new window right?

Oh wow, this thread... I was hoping you guys wouldn't respond to this thread... Just read it



Yes, but it's not intuitive.

A simple dual pane would solve this.

Split the inventory window so you have two containers open at the same time. For example, my inventory of my ship hangar and a drone bay. A loot can in space and my cargo bay.

Some people need the old option there, but enhance/improve and make it better.

Please, click this image to see what I'm trying to convey in words.

http://i.imgur.com/j8Jyn.jpg


EDIT: ctrl+click = whole new window.

I haven't checked how a loot can in space works yet, is it a separate window - would it need to be an extra panel in the unified inventory like this?

Thats not wha tthey said, they said theres no going, back but they will work to make things usable and better for everyone as time goes on, for the love of god its a beta on sisi, of a first release of the new item system...

its insane the amount of rage these kind of things get...

Personally only thing i see missing is SymLinks... to open directly a small cargo window or ship window if i click the old buttons, from there old location as well as the old right click hip menu (and the corp hanger as well) ... that would solve so much of the whining.

Oh wow, this thread... I was hoping you guys wouldn't respond to this thread... Just read it



Yes, but it's not intuitive.

A simple dual pane would solve this.

Split the inventory window so you have two containers open at the same time. For example, my inventory of my ship hangar and a drone bay. A loot can in space and my cargo bay.

Some people need the old option there, but enhance/improve and make it better.

Please, click this image to see what I'm trying to convey in words.

http://i.imgur.com/j8Jyn.jpg


EDIT: ctrl+click = whole new window.

Oh wow, this thread... I was hoping you guys wouldn't respond to this thread... Just read it



Yes, but it's not intuitive.

A simple dual pane would solve this.

Split the inventory window so you have two containers open at the same time. For example, my inventory of my ship hangar and a drone bay. A loot can in space and my cargo bay.

Some people need the old option there, but enhance/improve and make it better.

Please, click this image to see what I'm trying to convey in words.

http://i.imgur.com/j8Jyn.jpg


EDIT: ctrl+click = whole new window.

Guys, honestly, the teams and I appreciate the feedback, and we do read it.

There is a recurrent theme in this thread of "change isn't improvement, its change", and to that I would just say look at the evolution of software as a whole - compare Windows 95 to Windows 8, IE to Chrome, etc - things can't be static forever and must evolve, sometimes in a dramatic way. Usability issues are excellent feedback. Simply saying "it's different, I don't want to adjust, give me the old one" is not particularly useful to the team. They have selected the design direction they are going in and it's not just a case of putting in a checkbox that says "use old system X" to cater to those who aren't keen on a slight adjustment to a system.

Please do keep the usability feedback coming though - for instance, the behaviour of using "loot all" and then having an extra cargo window - this is the kind of use issue that can be dealt with.