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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lord Zim
719
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Posted - 2012.05.29 07:52:00 -
[511] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:I have zero interest rehearsing the same non arguments with quite frankly, daft people. Definition of "daft people": anyone who's talking back to him, instead of blindly agreeing.
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Because I market trade in Jita and having to leave the wormhole multiple times per hour would be unbearable. "I don't want to change the way I play, because it would be :effort:, but the entire rest of the game should!"
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Consider the valid argument presented. Come back to us when you have an argument which is an actual argument, and not "this should happen because I'm lazy". |
Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:07:00 -
[512] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Consider the valid argument presented. Come back to us when you have an argument which is an actual argument, and not "this should happen because I'm lazy". As opposed to your position of not having any suggestions and just telling people how bad there ideas are. oh and one liners like"fix Sov so the systems are easier to take" doesn't count, I'm not saying it's wrong but It is hardly fleshed out. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Lord Zim
719
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:16:00 -
[513] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Consider the valid argument presented. Come back to us when you have an argument which is an actual argument, and not "this should happen because I'm lazy". As opposed to your position of not having any suggestions and just telling people how bad there ideas are. oh and one liners like"fix Sov so the systems are easier to take" doesn't count, I'm not saying it's wrong but It is hardly fleshed out. Uh, there's been multiple ideas for modifying how local works which I've been tentatively in favor of. What I'm fully against is "just remove local" "ideas" which I will continue to call bad ideas because they are bad ideas. |
Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:21:00 -
[514] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Consider the valid argument presented. Come back to us when you have an argument which is an actual argument, and not "this should happen because I'm lazy". As opposed to your position of not having any suggestions and just telling people how bad there ideas are. oh and one liners like"fix Sov so the systems are easier to take" doesn't count, I'm not saying it's wrong but It is hardly fleshed out. Uh, there's been multiple ideas for modifying how local works which I've been tentatively in favor of. What I'm fully against is "just remove local" "ideas" which I will continue to call bad ideas because they are bad ideas. Well instead of tentatively being in favour of how about you pick one, post it up and defend it or if you think it has flaws explain what you believe needs changing and too what.
Stop just fence sitting and criticizing. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Lord Zim
719
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:26:00 -
[515] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Well instead of tentatively being in favour of how about you pick one, post it up and defend it or if you think it has flaws explain what you believe needs changing and too what.
Stop just fence sitting and criticizing. You're assuming I think something needs changing about local; I don't. What I'm "tentatively in favour of" are ideas I could possibly live with (subject to change pending actual testing) if CCP decides that local will change.
Until they say they are definitely making a change to how local works, I'll continue to give advice/point out weaknesses in suggestions other people put up. In you and Caliph's case, however, it's all geared towards the gankers, and there's absolutely nothing in it for the gankee.
But then you know this. |
Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:40:00 -
[516] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Well instead of tentatively being in favour of how about you pick one, post it up and defend it or if you think it has flaws explain what you believe needs changing and too what.
Stop just fence sitting and criticizing. You're assuming I think something needs changing about local; I don't. What I'm "tentatively in favour of" are ideas I could possibly live with (subject to change pending actual testing) if CCP decides that local will change. Until they say they are definitely making a change to how local works, I'll continue to give advice/point out weaknesses in suggestions other people put up. In you and Caliph's case, however, it's all geared towards the gankers, and there's absolutely nothing in it for the gankee. But then you know this. Actually no. not instantly showing your presence in local is an advantage to the prey as well. You will d-scan detect probes before they have your position locked in or in some cases even detected if you are paying attention.
Oh the other point if you cant stand behind any idea for anything at all, you must really have no complaints about EVE. You would be the first person I have ever heard that from, or a spineless fence sitter, capable of complaining about everyone elses ideas while never standing up for any your self. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Lord Zim
719
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:45:00 -
[517] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Actually no. not instantly showing your presence in local is an advantage to the prey as well. You will d-scan detect probes before they have your position locked in or in some cases even detected if you are paying attention. You need probes to find people?
Frying Doom wrote:Oh the other point if you cant stand behind any idea for anything at all, you must really have no complaints about EVE. You would be the first person I have ever heard that from, or a spineless fence sitter, capable of complaining about everyone elses ideas while never standing up for any your self. Nice strawman. |
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
44
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:46:00 -
[518] - Quote
Just remove local and lets hell be unleashed. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:52:00 -
[519] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Actually no. not instantly showing your presence in local is an advantage to the prey as well. You will d-scan detect probes before they have your position locked in or in some cases even detected if you are paying attention.
Oh the other point if you cant stand behind any idea for anything at all, you must really have no complaints about EVE. You would be the first person I have ever heard that from, or a spineless fence sitter, capable of complaining about everyone elses ideas while never standing up for any your self.
So instead of watching for local to update, they'll be watching d-scan to update. Yah, big improvement. |
Lord Zim
719
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Posted - 2012.05.29 08:59:00 -
[520] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:So instead of watching for local to update, they'll be watching d-scan to update. Yah, big improvement. Do you know what the big catch here is? dscan is currently severely limited in the range of space it can cover. Guess who that would favour, then ponder why the same people are against modifying how dscan works. |
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Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:21:00 -
[521] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:So instead of watching for local to update, they'll be watching d-scan to update. Yah, big improvement. Do you know what the big catch here is? dscan is currently severely limited in the range of space it can cover. Guess who that would favour, then ponder why the same people are against modifying how dscan works. Umm it would favor the observant and hard working while penalizing the lazy.
Oh and what ideas where you behind in this thread sorry I missed you backing and arguing the points for these. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Elena Melkan
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
18
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:30:00 -
[522] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:So instead of watching for local to update, they'll be watching d-scan to update. Yah, big improvement. Do you know what the big catch here is? dscan is currently severely limited in the range of space it can cover. Guess who that would favour, then ponder why the same people are against modifying how dscan works. Umm it would favor the observant and hard working while penalizing the lazy. Oh and what ideas where you behind in this thread sorry I missed you backing and arguing the points for these. It wouldn't favor anyone really. It would make things harder for a predator to find a target, and for prey to avoid getting caught. Spamming a d-scan would make playing in low and nullsec really boring and pointless, and I don't understand what a word 'boring' has to do with 'hard working' or 'observant'. |
Lord Zim
719
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:48:00 -
[523] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Oh and what ideas where you behind in this thread sorry I missed you backing and arguing the points for these. It's all in the threads, go back and read. |
Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:50:00 -
[524] - Quote
Elena Melkan wrote: It wouldn't favor anyone really. It would make things harder for a predator to find a target, and for prey to avoid getting caught. Spamming a d-scan would make playing in low and nullsec really boring and pointless, and I don't understand what a word 'boring' has to do with 'hard working' or 'observant'.
If you read further up I propose the change only in Null sec and with the alteration of the D-scan so it auto updates as spamming the stupid thing stinks. Essentially I propose that people have to check the dscan instead of the free intel from local, giving covert ships the ability to be covert.
Thanks for the honesty about it still being a neutral playing field because it would be. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:51:00 -
[525] - Quote
Elena Melkan wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:So instead of watching for local to update, they'll be watching d-scan to update. Yah, big improvement. Do you know what the big catch here is? dscan is currently severely limited in the range of space it can cover. Guess who that would favour, then ponder why the same people are against modifying how dscan works. Umm it would favor the observant and hard working while penalizing the lazy. Oh and what ideas where you behind in this thread sorry I missed you backing and arguing the points for these. It wouldn't favor anyone really. It would make things harder for a predator to find a target, and for prey to avoid getting caught. Spamming a d-scan would make playing in low and nullsec really boring and pointless, and I don't understand what a word 'boring' has to do with 'hard working' or 'observant'.
Not to mention that spamming d-scan only helps the prey if they are in a place that needs to be scanned down. If they are in an anom or any place that can be warped to from the overview, the prey get no warning.
So I guess if these guys want to be e-honourable, and not just camp the gates, they'll run circuits around all the belts, anoms and customs offices till they find a soft target.
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Lord Zim
719
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:54:00 -
[526] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:If you read further up I propose the change only in Null sec and with the alteration of the D-scan so it auto updates as spamming the stupid thing stinks. Essentially I propose that people have to check the dscan instead of the free intel from local, giving covert ships the ability to be covert.
Lord Zim wrote:Do you know what the big catch here is? dscan is currently severely limited in the range of space it can cover. Guess who that would favour, then ponder why the same people are against modifying how dscan works. Oh, I actually forgot to mention that of course dscan doesn't see cloaked ships, so you have no idea if there's a bomber, recon, t3 or similar about to lock you down in a sanctum or similar. |
Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:57:00 -
[527] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:If they are in an anom or any place that can be warped to from the overview, the prey get no warning. Without any form of probing the system? sure you could do that but without local how many empty anoms would you warp to before you decided you might need to see if anyone is in the system first. And although the prey would receive limited warning, it would not be no warning as you show up on D-scan warping in. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 10:01:00 -
[528] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:If you read further up I propose the change only in Null sec and with the alteration of the D-scan so it auto updates as spamming the stupid thing stinks. Essentially I propose that people have to check the dscan instead of the free intel from local, giving covert ships the ability to be covert. Lord Zim wrote:Do you know what the big catch here is? dscan is currently severely limited in the range of space it can cover. Guess who that would favour, then ponder why the same people are against modifying how dscan works. Oh, I actually forgot to mention that of course dscan doesn't see cloaked ships, so you have no idea if there's a bomber, recon, t3 or similar about to lock you down in a sanctum or similar. So they would be able to function like their name implies or for that matter like they do in populated systems in Hi-sec or lo-sec systems where there is more than just blue contacts in a system. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Lord Zim
720
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:05:00 -
[529] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:So they would be able to function like their name implies or for that matter like they do in populated systems in Hi-sec or lo-sec systems where there is more than just blue contacts in a system. And this is where your concept of "game balance" breaks down.
Or are you going to suddenly start talking about an idea where the system inhabitants are able to get a fair warning ahead of the "you have been warpscrambled" message, so they have a modicum of chance to escape if they're paying attention? Or are you going to claim that the obvious solution to your change is to put a cloaked char on each and every stargate and wormhole entrance in the system? |
Elena Melkan
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
18
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Posted - 2012.05.29 10:16:00 -
[530] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Elena Melkan wrote: It wouldn't favor anyone really. It would make things harder for a predator to find a target, and for prey to avoid getting caught. Spamming a d-scan would make playing in low and nullsec really boring and pointless, and I don't understand what a word 'boring' has to do with 'hard working' or 'observant'.
If you read further up I propose the change only in Null sec and with the alteration of the D-scan so it auto updates as spamming the stupid thing stinks. Essentially I propose that people have to check the dscan instead of the free intel from local, giving covert ships the ability to be covert. Thanks for the honesty about it still being a neutral playing field because it would be. Would you like to explain why in your mind only null should be affected? I'm sorry if you mentioned it earlier already, there are so many pages and I have to admit that I'm feeling a bit lazy at the moment... |
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Frying Doom
198
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Posted - 2012.05.29 10:21:00 -
[531] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:So they would be able to function like their name implies or for that matter like they do in populated systems in Hi-sec or lo-sec systems where there is more than just blue contacts in a system. And this is where your concept of "game balance" breaks down. Or are you going to suddenly start talking about an idea where the system inhabitants are able to get a fair warning ahead of the "you have been warpscrambled" message, so they have a modicum of chance to escape if they're paying attention? Or are you going to claim that the obvious solution to your change is to put a cloaked char on each and every stargate and wormhole entrance in the system? If putting a cloaked character on every gate would be your method of security then that would be your method. you could have cloaked ships accompanying mining groups or for that matter a battleship or 2.
You always seem to argue why Null should be safe and you should get plenty of notice of incoming enemies, I hate to break it to you Hi-sec is more dangerous than null is at this point and has been up to now. You are talking about a surprise attack by a cloaked ship rather than a ship that for some reason is cloaked but is carrying a disco ball announcing its presence to everyone around it.
Hi-sec and Lo-sec people carry on all the time without the ability to identify that they are about to be ganked, why can't null sec residents? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Lord Zim
720
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:31:00 -
[532] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:You always seem to argue why Null should be safe and you should get plenty of notice of incoming enemies And you always seem to argue that the people in nullsec are only there to be farmed by roaming gangs, with absolutely no way of stopping that from happening.
Frying Doom wrote:I hate to break it to you Hi-sec is more dangerous than null is at this point and has been up to now. This is a fallacy.
Frying Doom wrote:Hi-sec and Lo-sec people carry on all the time without the ability to identify that they are about to be ganked, why can't null sec residents? How do lowsec people carry on without the ability to identify that they are about to be ganked?
Are hisec people being ganked the instant they undock? Are hisec people unable to go afk without a certainty that if anyone not in their own corp/alliance runs past, they'll get popped? |
Frying Doom
199
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Posted - 2012.05.29 10:49:00 -
[533] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: And you always seem to argue that the people in nullsec are only there to be farmed by roaming gangs, with absolutely no way of stopping that from happening.
Said it before you need to actively defend your systems not passively or reactively.
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I hate to break it to you Hi-sec is more dangerous than null is at this point and has been up to now. This is a fallacy. And the most dangerous PvP system in eve is Amamake a 0.4 losec system in heimatar, followed by Jita, the most dangerous Null system is HED-GP and that is fifth on the list hardly more dangerous than Hi-sec and defiately not more dangerous than empire.
Lord Zim wrote: How do lowsec people carry on without the ability to identify that they are about to be ganked?
The same way people will in a null sec will without local, using D-scan. Lo-sec is not a one alliance per system space, how else would you get things done.
Lord Zim wrote:Are hisec people being ganked the instant they undock? Are hisec people unable to go afk without a certainty that if anyone not in their own corp/alliance runs past, they'll get popped? If they obey the laws yes via wardecs, second depends on what they are carrying.
Without local you would have a better chance of surviving being afk in null and would be less likely to be attacked on undock unless they new before hand you were in ther.e You would be harder to track down if you got away as local wouldn't exist to tell them you were still in system. It would also be easier to counter attack a stationary enemy camping a station Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1083
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Posted - 2012.05.29 10:51:00 -
[534] - Quote
I can not believe this became a threadnaught. You people are terrible. You don't know |
Frying Doom
200
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Posted - 2012.05.29 10:55:00 -
[535] - Quote
Degren wrote:I can not believe this became a threadnaught. You people are terrible. Thanks :) Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
73
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Posted - 2012.05.29 10:59:00 -
[536] - Quote
Degren wrote:I can not believe this became a threadnaught. You people are terrible.
And now you have got bragging rights with "I was there" |
Lord Zim
721
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Posted - 2012.05.29 12:12:00 -
[537] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Said it before you need to actively defend your systems not passively or reactively. In other words, one guy to sit above a station 23.5/7, cloaked. One for each stargate. One for each wormhole. A "quick reaction force" sitting somewhere nearby just waiting for something to happen. And this is, of course, on a per system basis, multiply this by every system you own or want to protect.
Lord Zim wrote:And the most dangerous PvP system in eve is Amamake a 0.4 losec system in heimatar, followed by Jita, the most dangerous Null system is HED-GP and that is fifth on the list hardly more dangerous than Hi-sec and defiately not more dangerous than empire. How many people go through each of those systems pr day, and how many of those are ganked pr day? How many of them are ganked due to wardecs?
Frying Doom wrote:If they obey the laws yes via wardecs, second depends on what they are carrying. So you're actually going to say that hisec is inherently more dangerous than nullsec, even though in nullsec you're getting popped if the guy can catch you, whereas in hisec you can get ganked, but all you need to do to avoid this is generally to not fly around when there's a wardec on, and not fly a cargo which is expensive enough, and not steal from other people.
Yep. Hisec is inherently so much more dangerous than nullsec.
Frying Doom wrote:Without local you would have a better chance of surviving being afk in null and would be less likely to be attacked on undock unless they new before hand you were in ther.e You would be harder to track down if you got away as local wouldn't exist to tell them you were still in system. It would also be easier to counter attack a stationary enemy camping a station You wouldn't have a better chance of surviving being afk in null if local wasn't there, and since there could be a huge gang sitting outside a station without anyone knowing (unless, of course, you mandate that someone's only job in EVE is to sit undocked in a cloaked ship and watch the station 23.5/7. And one for each gate. And one for each wormhole. And unless you're in a cloaky ship, they can still see "is he somewhere in system". |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
218
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Posted - 2012.05.29 12:17:00 -
[538] - Quote
Notice Zim's argument always comes with the premise he's entitled to one iota of unearned safety? Bless his heart, he tries.
Zim in your alliance of, 9000, if you can't create a 24 hour cycle of patrols then you shouldn't "own the space". Take that as "ever feel safe."
And you don't need a guy at every entrance, just a combat fleet relatively close and of good size relative to the likely threat. Occupants that aren't a part of the defense force have to take some actions themselves such as strengthening their defense to hold out until help arrives or they should perish. Under the right circumstances, they should die instantly. As example if a ten man stealth bomber fleet invades and intercepts you. Chalk it up to 10 people playing exceptional and the one guys exceptional play didn't match it.
You have no inherent right to a safe way out unless you take the appropriate actions in creating that situation. And that won't change no matter how many times and different ways you ask that same question. |
Frying Doom
200
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Posted - 2012.05.29 12:17:00 -
[539] - Quote
Elena Melkan wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Elena Melkan wrote: It wouldn't favor anyone really. It would make things harder for a predator to find a target, and for prey to avoid getting caught. Spamming a d-scan would make playing in low and nullsec really boring and pointless, and I don't understand what a word 'boring' has to do with 'hard working' or 'observant'.
If you read further up I propose the change only in Null sec and with the alteration of the D-scan so it auto updates as spamming the stupid thing stinks. Essentially I propose that people have to check the dscan instead of the free intel from local, giving covert ships the ability to be covert. Thanks for the honesty about it still being a neutral playing field because it would be. Would you like to explain why in your mind only null should be affected? I'm sorry if you mentioned it earlier already, there are so many pages and I have to admit that I'm feeling a bit lazy at the moment... Two reasons for Null sec only local.
1) Empire space is exactly that funded and controlled by huge empires of Triilions of people and a budget so large nothing of it's like has never been seen on this planet. NPC Null is just providing stations and therefore if they are not shelling out a cent on defense they are not likely to pay for a Local channel. Sov space is provincial lawless space and although some Alliances have claimed them as their own the basic fact is that the ability to have empire features like Local should be out of the financial realms or technological capabilities of a few thousand players.
2) Null is by its definition lawless space in its current state Covert ops are not covert, Stealth ships are not stealthy and by its very nature local was not meant to be an intel source but has become the biggest intel provider in Null sec. In Hi sec and lo-sec gankers are hidden in the background of other characters where as the lawless nature of Null allows the eradication of all non blues in a system. This gives a supposed lawless wild area an advantage over supposedly safer areas. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Dror Roidcrusher
Balls of Megacyte In Tea We Trust
27
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Posted - 2012.05.29 12:22:00 -
[540] - Quote
I have balls of megacyte |
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