Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 30 .. 32 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Frying Doom
200
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:24:00 -
[541] - Quote
Dror Roidcrusher wrote:I have balls of megacyte I feel sorry for your loss Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:27:00 -
[542] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:alot of stuff
I appreciate your view but it will create an imbalance in risk versus reward that will lead to overcompensating rewards in nullsec. Local has to be removed across the board.
Second, local has a dulling effect on pvp. It makes it suck. Many people in hisec pvp and fixing or rather removing the tedium of camping due to local is not a benefit that should be given to just one subset of pvpers.
There is no sound reason to leave local chat in EVE. Or rather to have everyone automatically registered as in system. Removing local will not remove concord so there is not a shred more risk in doing so outside of those potentially in war. But the risk would be mutual for attacker and defender, hence balanced.
I remember they removed public standings because it gave to much free intel. Well that gave a trivial amount of intel compared to local chat. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:35:00 -
[543] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Elena Melkan wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Elena Melkan wrote: It wouldn't favor anyone really. It would make things harder for a predator to find a target, and for prey to avoid getting caught. Spamming a d-scan would make playing in low and nullsec really boring and pointless, and I don't understand what a word 'boring' has to do with 'hard working' or 'observant'.
If you read further up I propose the change only in Null sec and with the alteration of the D-scan so it auto updates as spamming the stupid thing stinks. Essentially I propose that people have to check the dscan instead of the free intel from local, giving covert ships the ability to be covert. Thanks for the honesty about it still being a neutral playing field because it would be. Would you like to explain why in your mind only null should be affected? I'm sorry if you mentioned it earlier already, there are so many pages and I have to admit that I'm feeling a bit lazy at the moment... Two reasons for Null sec only local. 1) Empire space is exactly that funded and controlled by huge empires of Triilions of people and a budget so large nothing of it's like has never been seen on this planet. NPC Null is just providing stations and therefore if they are not shelling out a cent on defense they are not likely to pay for a Local channel. Sov space is provincial lawless space and although some Alliances have claimed them as their own the basic fact is that the ability to have empire features like Local should be out of the financial realms or technological capabilities of a few thousand players. 2) Null is by its definition lawless space in its current state Covert ops are not covert, Stealth ships are not stealthy and by its very nature local was not meant to be an intel source but has become the biggest intel provider in Null sec. In Hi sec and lo-sec gankers are hidden in the background of other characters where as the lawless nature of Null allows the eradication of all non blues in a system. This gives a supposed lawless wild area an advantage over supposedly safer areas.
You do understand that if people couldn't use local to pull information about the people in the system, while in hi sec, that it would actually make people who live in hi sec safer right?
Doing the same thing in low and null would make people both safer, and at the exact same time make that space more dangerous.
In hi sec you use local to scout for people in worthwhile sips, without actually having to locate them first. You locate the target through local, and then find them.
In low and null you use it to see if there is a threat, not to find friendlys.
Keep the ability to chat in local, in all parts of space. Remove the ability to pull the information about what the people in local are flying. Add a short wave broadcast chanell if there isn't one already. If you want to get more detailed information about an individual in local, you should have to open yourself up to them as much as they would have to open themselves up to you, by sending them a message and seeing if they respond. |
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:38:00 -
[544] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Zim in your alliance of, 9000, if you can't create a 24 hour cycle of patrols then you shouldn't "own the space". Take that as "ever feel safe." What would be the incentives to be in these patrols? |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:40:00 -
[545] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Zim in your alliance of, 9000, if you can't create a 24 hour cycle of patrols then you shouldn't "own the space". Take that as "ever feel safe." What would be the incentives to be in these patrols?
For the Hives' continual claim to sovereignty. And to allow a safe place for its tax paying citizens to generate tax revenue. Those taxes could then be distributed to the defensive patrols or invested and multiplied for greater return.
Did you not read the post where i said if I had 9000 people behind me i'd burn Jita down weekly?
Of course I wouldn't announce it, and it would rotate days it was carried out. |
Frying Doom
200
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:46:00 -
[546] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Frying Doom wrote:alot of stuff I appreciate your view but it will create an imbalance in risk versus reward that will lead to overcompensating rewards in nullsec. Local has to be removed across the board. Second, local has a dulling effect on pvp. It makes it suck. It makes many skills largely useless and at minimum boring. Many people in hisec pvp and fixing or rather removing the tedium of camping due to local is not a benefit that should be given to just one subset of pvpers. My primary reasons for null sec only are based on the fact that Null sec is lawless space and it makes no sense that local would exist there. Also no local in Null is part of a package of alterations I believe should occur to Null as it is very stagnant and boring at this point and a large part of the pvp is gate camping with little to no risk to the campers. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:49:00 -
[547] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Frying Doom wrote:alot of stuff I appreciate your view but it will create an imbalance in risk versus reward that will lead to overcompensating rewards in nullsec. Local has to be removed across the board. Second, local has a dulling effect on pvp. It makes it suck. It makes many skills largely useless and at minimum boring. Many people in hisec pvp and fixing or rather removing the tedium of camping due to local is not a benefit that should be given to just one subset of pvpers. My primary reasons for null sec only are based on the fact that Null sec is lawless space and it makes no sense that local would exist there. Also no local in Null is part of a package of alterations I believe should occur to Null as it is very stagnant and boring at this point and a large part of the pvp is gate camping with little to no risk to the campers.
Removing local has no real effect on high sec law and order. It only affects war. One can die in a martyrdom operation in hisec with local as is because it can come from someone completely anonymous. Having no local wouldn't effect that one way or the other save for making the suicide ganker have to work to locate their target.
I honestly wish the orthodox carebears could see how much less likely they would be to die to a suicide gank with local removed. They overestimate how well seeing someone in hisec local is protecting them and underestimate how not having their presence revealed in hisec local would shelter them. |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:54:00 -
[548] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Notice Zim's argument always comes with the premise he's entitled to one iota of unearned safety? Bless his heart, he tries.
Zim in your alliance of, 9000, if you can't create a 24 hour cycle of patrols then you shouldn't "own the space". Take that as "ever feel safe."
And you don't need a guy at every entrance, just a combat fleet relatively close and of good size relative to the likely threat. Occupants that aren't a part of the defense force have to take some actions themselves such as strengthening their defense to hold out until help arrives or they should perish. Under the right circumstances, they should die instantly. As example if a ten man stealth bomber fleet invades and intercepts you. Chalk it up to 10 people playing exceptional and the one guys exceptional play didn't match it.
You have no inherent right to a safe way out unless you take the appropriate actions in creating that situation. And that won't change no matter how many times and different ways you ask that same question.
lol. you really are trying hard. With no Local, and as such no protection from, Covert Op's. The first fundemental action of any Corp/alliance, would be to cover the entrances. Be it combat or cloaky. Now if your Corp/alliance is only doing "watch" duties. what would be the point of going to Null in the first place.
Flying a cloaky through null, is to easy already. Add to that of having only 1-2 seconds to spot him as he jumps through a gate. It doesn't take rocket science to see how much potential that would have, to any agressor.
Hi sec WT's would be effectively be placed into a WH scenerio. The agressor has the advantage over WT in Hi, with the use of Locator agents. As locator agents cannot be used for WH's. This actually would put Hi sec, at a higher level of danger than WH's. All this without the risk/rewards of WH's.
Can you see how silly that would be? can you? eh? can you? |
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:54:00 -
[549] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:For the Hives' continual claim to sovereignty. And to allow a safe place for its tax paying citizens to generate tax revenue. Those taxes could then be distributed to the defensive patrols or invested and multiplied for greater return. So to make it worth it to have a single person as an official "quick reaction force", 24/7, that'd be 960 million a day pr system in salary costs. If we're assuming we're talking about just 8 hours of QRFs, that's 320 million pr day. Multiply that by how many people you want in your QRF, and add ship replacement programmes for any ships and pods lost.
Frying Doom wrote:My primary reasons for null sec only are based on the fact that Null sec is lawless space and it makes no sense that local would exist there. And if we're going for the "makes sense" option, there's also the suggestions that "local" is a system upgrade which can be shot up or hacked for a short period of time to either be disabled or give the attackers access to the same information, and would give the alliance and its allies the benefits of actually owning sov in a system, whereas an attacker would not (or would have to expend energy to get that data).
But that's "too safe" for you, of course.
Frying Doom wrote:Also no local in Null is part of a package of alterations I believe should occur to Null as it is very stagnant and boring at this point and a large part of the pvp is gate camping with little to no risk to the campers. Oh really? Tell us about this package of alterations you've never mentioned, then. I mean, you have such a wealth of nullsec experience, surely you have a lot of suggestions beyond "REMOVE LOCAL!". |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:55:00 -
[550] - Quote
I cringe just a bit everytime I read the title of this thread |
|
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:57:00 -
[551] - Quote
Revised just for you Bunnie Hop
|
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:58:00 -
[552] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Revised just for you Bunnie Hop
Awww, Such a gentleman. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:08:00 -
[553] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: So to make it worth it to have a single person as an official "quick reaction force", 24/7, that'd be 960 million a day pr system in salary costs. If we're assuming we're talking about just 8 hours of QRFs, that's 320 million pr day. Multiply that by how many people you want in your QRF, and add ship replacement programmes for any ships and pods lost.
Either your defense force demands to much pay or your security is to severe and hinders trade. Open borders has its benefits and its liabilities. Either of which are a non issue to the core principle. Thats on Goonswarm Command to figure out. |
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:13:00 -
[554] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Lord Zim wrote: So to make it worth it to have a single person as an official "quick reaction force", 24/7, that'd be 960 million a day pr system in salary costs. If we're assuming we're talking about just 8 hours of QRFs, that's 320 million pr day. Multiply that by how many people you want in your QRF, and add ship replacement programmes for any ships and pods lost.
Either your defense force demands to much pay or your security is to severe and hinders trade. Either of which are a non issue to the core principle. Thats on Goonswarm Command to figure out. What would you say would be a fair wage, pr person and pr hour, to sit guard around a bunch of carebears in case something happens, then? |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:22:00 -
[555] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Lord Zim wrote: So to make it worth it to have a single person as an official "quick reaction force", 24/7, that'd be 960 million a day pr system in salary costs. If we're assuming we're talking about just 8 hours of QRFs, that's 320 million pr day. Multiply that by how many people you want in your QRF, and add ship replacement programmes for any ships and pods lost.
Either your defense force demands to much pay or your security is to severe and hinders trade. Either of which are a non issue to the core principle. Thats on Goonswarm Command to figure out. What would you say would be a fair wage, pr person and pr hour, to sit guard around a bunch of carebears in case something happens, then?
That would depend on what ship I was in and how I felt about the Alliance. But remember just a relatively small fleet can defend one system and in that system many civilians can be generating taxes.
With the benefits offered to Hive members I would consider a draft service for the privilege. You guys can offer alot asking a little something of your members shouldn't be a big issue. It's garrison duty. Nobody likes it but someone has to do it or the combat is for naught. With as many people as you guys have you could setup a schedule for guys to devote a hour or so per day to do their share. The specifics I can't answer because I don't know the inner workings of the 'Swarm but it's within the alliances ability.
With the right officers you might even be able to get it done on tips. Make the experience enjoyable even if its less than the adrenaline pumping front line combat. |
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:29:00 -
[556] - Quote
Lord Zimmy, are you trying to say that you would leave null sec if local gets removed? A brave and tough guy like you!! |
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:29:00 -
[557] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:That would depend on what ship I was in and how I felt about the Alliance. But remember just a relatively small fleet can defend one system and in that system many civilians can be generating taxes.
With the benefits offered to Hive members I would consider a draft service for the privilege. You guys can offer alot asking a little something of your members shouldn't be a big issue. It's garrison duty. Nobody likes it but someone has to do it or the combat is for naught. With as many people as you guys have you could setup a schedule for guys to devote a hour or so per day to do their share. The specifics I can't answer because I don't know the inner workings of the 'Swarm but it's within the alliances ability. I'm not asking for GSF specifically, but for an assumption on a system which'll be realistic to implement for every alliance out there.
Let's take you, for example. Let's presume that the alliance you're in is in good standing with you, for the sake of the exercise. How much would you have to be paid to sit guard for an hour? |
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:32:00 -
[558] - Quote
Dragon Outlaw wrote:Lord Zimmy, are you trying to say that you would leave null sec if local gets removed? A brave and tough guy like you!! As I've said before, I expect the removal of local to have absolutely no effect on my playstyle whatsoever. |
Frying Doom
201
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:32:00 -
[559] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:For the Hives' continual claim to sovereignty. And to allow a safe place for its tax paying citizens to generate tax revenue. Those taxes could then be distributed to the defensive patrols or invested and multiplied for greater return. So to make it worth it to have a single person as an official "quick reaction force", 24/7, that'd be 960 million a day pr system in salary costs. If we're assuming we're talking about just 8 hours of QRFs, that's 320 million pr day. Multiply that by how many people you want in your QRF, and add ship replacement programmes for any ships and pods lost. Or your members could take turns and contibute to their alliance.
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:My primary reasons for null sec only are based on the fact that Null sec is lawless space and it makes no sense that local would exist there. And if we're going for the "makes sense" option, there's also the suggestions that "local" is a system upgrade which can be shot up or hacked for a short period of time to either be disabled or give the attackers access to the same information, and would give the alliance and its allies the benefits of actually owning sov in a system, whereas an attacker would not (or would have to expend energy to get that data). As I have stated on many occasions on the other post in Jita park speakers corner, the amounts generated by 9000 people are insignificant compared to an empire consisting of billions to trillions of people.
Lord Zim wrote:Oh really? Tell us about this package of alterations you've never mentioned, then. I mean, you have such a wealth of nullsec experience, surely you have a lot of suggestions beyond "REMOVE LOCAL!". Umm in the other post you have been arguing with me for the last few days https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=110157 Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
219
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:32:00 -
[560] - Quote
If the alliance respected my work, handled leadership and promotions fairly, I do it for free. Tips appreciated. |
|
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:36:00 -
[561] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:If the alliance respected my work, handled leadership and promotions fairly, I do it for free. Tips appreciated =) So you'd sit in a system for 8 hours a day, and respond to any emergency within a few seconds, for free? |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
220
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:38:00 -
[562] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:If the alliance respected my work, handled leadership and promotions fairly, I do it for free. Tips appreciated =) So you'd sit in a system for 8 hours a day, and respond to any emergency within a few seconds, for free?
Well Zim it's a game. I think 8 hours is a little much for one guy, you have to find a more feasible schedule. Small alliances claiming sov are doomed to fail yes, but they weren't really sov worthy to begin with.
I'll buy Tengus and Legions for my amigos if they can't afford them so doing charity isn't something I shun. I am Muslim.
Its also why I may only have 8 solid with me but all eight of them will camp someone for hours on end if i ask. They know i'll do the same in return. |
Frying Doom
201
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:41:00 -
[563] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:If the alliance respected my work, handled leadership and promotions fairly, I do it for free. Tips appreciated =) So you'd sit in a system for 8 hours a day, and respond to any emergency within a few seconds, for free? You jumped from an hour to 8. I myself have done mining overwatch 90 minutes or so at a time and not been payed for it as the next time round someone else does it. Being in an alliance doesn't mean you should just get payed or the opposite ripped off. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:49:00 -
[564] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Well Zim it's a game. I think 8 hours is a little much for one guy, you have to find a more feasible schedule. Okay, let's pretend you're a normal person and you have 1 hour of time, pr day, which you can spend in EVE. Would you dedicate that hour to probably doing absolutely nothing, but you still have to be alert enough that you can be on the scene within a few seconds of someone getting ambushed, for free? |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
220
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:49:00 -
[565] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Well Zim it's a game. I think 8 hours is a little much for one guy, you have to find a more feasible schedule. Okay, let's pretend you're a normal person and you have 1 hour of time, pr day, which you can spend in EVE. Would you dedicate that hour to probably doing absolutely nothing, but you still have to be alert enough that you can be on the scene within a few seconds of someone getting ambushed, for free?
Under the right conditions, absolutely. |
Elena Melkan
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:51:00 -
[566] - Quote
Made pretty long reply, but the forums messed it up! |
Lord Zim
722
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:53:00 -
[567] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Well Zim it's a game. I think 8 hours is a little much for one guy, you have to find a more feasible schedule. Okay, let's pretend you're a normal person and you have 1 hour of time, pr day, which you can spend in EVE. Would you dedicate that hour to probably doing absolutely nothing, but you still have to be alert enough that you can be on the scene within a few seconds of someone getting ambushed, for free? Under the right conditions, absolutely. Okay, so you're a samaritan. How long would you keep this up? |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
220
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:54:00 -
[568] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Well Zim it's a game. I think 8 hours is a little much for one guy, you have to find a more feasible schedule. Okay, let's pretend you're a normal person and you have 1 hour of time, pr day, which you can spend in EVE. Would you dedicate that hour to probably doing absolutely nothing, but you still have to be alert enough that you can be on the scene within a few seconds of someone getting ambushed, for free? Under the right conditions, absolutely.
You have to remember Zim I fight wars in hisec. Camping is a part of the job. Its why I want local gone. I'd still have to camp but i'd have at least a reasonable chance of having it pay off. I'll succed regardless as I have been but its mind numbing at the moment the work involved in getting a specific individual. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
220
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:56:00 -
[569] - Quote
Zim you're hunting for a contradiction that isn't going to come. As I stated before its directly relative to how much I care for the alliance and how much appreciation is shown for doing so. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:59:00 -
[570] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Well Zim it's a game. I think 8 hours is a little much for one guy, you have to find a more feasible schedule. Okay, let's pretend you're a normal person and you have 1 hour of time, pr day, which you can spend in EVE. Would you dedicate that hour to probably doing absolutely nothing, but you still have to be alert enough that you can be on the scene within a few seconds of someone getting ambushed, for free? Under the right conditions, absolutely. Okay, so you're a samaritan. How long would you keep this up?
I personally think this is getting to far off the fact that we are just playing a game.
The only people that should be 'required" to do stuff like that, should be the people who want to. If you don't have enough people willing to, well then I would think your probably shouldn't be trying to hold space, or you could trying paying people.
Having the option for people to set up a corp with the intention of selling their service as a security force that a corp or alliance can contract to patrol their space would be better then any solution that would make that nonviable. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 30 .. 32 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |