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Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.10 17:50:00 - [1081] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Kalrand In that case they would be collateralize 20% of their loan, with 100% of their balance, but you would only let them use up to 30% of their balance in this manner, correct? Yes. It's not meant to be an attractive opportunity, or a method to liquidate your investment. It's simply a means whereby account holders can gain some sort of use out of their capital without selling our liquidating their account. Curious, what kind of rates are available on new loans, assuming they are ~110% collateralized and in the single digit billions isk range.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.11.10 17:56:00 - [1082] Originally by: Ray McCormack Yes. It's not meant to be an attractive opportunity, or a method to liquidate your investment. It's simply a means whereby account holders can gain some sort of use out of their capital without selling our liquidating their account. Just to be clear, does the offer apply to deposits that have been purchased by a third party? In other words, can I arbitrage my purchase of EBank deposits by using them as collateral in an Ebank loan at the same terms available to current depositors?
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:00:00 - [1083] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Kalrand In that case they would be collateralize 20% of their loan, with 100% of their balance, but you would only let them use up to 30% of their balance in this manner, correct? Yes. It's not meant to be an attractive opportunity, or a method to liquidate your investment. It's simply a means whereby account holders can gain some sort of use out of their capital without selling our liquidating their account. Curious, what kind of rates are available on new loans, assuming they are ~110% collateralized and in the single digit billions isk range. I offer 6% per month upto 2B on collateralized loans. Over 2B rate drop to 5%. All assets priced at NPC and must be minimum 100% cover.
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:09:00 - [1084] Quote: I am now needed the isk to pay out my previous lottery! I'm too lazy to read the previous pages, but can you clarify how the **** you are operating a lottery in such a manner that you need a loan to pay it out?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:10:00 - [1085] Originally by: Tiberizzle Quote: I am now needed the isk to pay out my previous lottery! I'm too lazy to read the previous pages, but can you clarify how the **** you are operating a lottery in such a manner that you need a loan to pay it out? He put all the lotto ticket money in ebank. Right before the doors closed.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:17:00 - [1086] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Tiberizzle Quote: I am now needed the isk to pay out my previous lottery! I'm too lazy to read the previous pages, but can you clarify how the **** you are operating a lottery in such a manner that you need a loan to pay it out? He put all the lotto ticket money in ebank. Right before the doors closed. No, I think it means he spent the ticket proceeds and needs a loan to pay off the winners. Actually, I think the whole thing sounds like a scam and he's feeding this line to the "winners" as an excuse for not paying them.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:23:00 - [1087] Originally by: cosmoray EBANK are offering to release 20% of account balance via a loan mechanism. I believe we're offering 30% here. Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:35:00 - [1088] Originally by: Kalrand Curious, what kind of rates are available on new loans, assuming they are ~110% collateralized and in the single digit billions isk range. Depends. For single digit billions anywhere from 6% to 10%. Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
FlameWarrior Gallente Hall Of Flame H Y E N A	Posted - 2009.11.10 19:04:00 - [1089] every time i collect isk from ticker buyer i send 1bill into eve bank for interest and other for making profit from trading, luckily I didn't deposit the isk into the bank otherwise i could have lose all my reputation ! n as for ur knowledge it's not a scam ! if u think it is, i could not do nothing but just say look for yourself! Yoyo !LOTTERY MAN IS HERE !
FlameWarrior Gallente Hall Of Flame H Y E N A	Posted - 2009.11.10 19:09:00 - [1090] but also got evemail back from ray that, he actually under estimated the collectal prices for 10~20% just for profit making for himself ~!~ Yoyo !LOTTERY MAN IS HERE !

Nano Pope	Posted - 2009.11.11 02:08:00 - [1091] I'm guessing Flamewarrior isn't a native English speaker. I think he's trying to say he put 1.3 billion in EBANK before the freeze that was prize money for his lottery. He didn't put all the isk in and used some for trading which saved his lottery but he still needs the isk to do his next lottery. Or something, it's hard to tell. Whereas Ray has come up with the great idea of using overcollateralized loans to transform your nonexistent paper isk back into real assets. Really though, it's letting you liquidate 20% if you take a loan 4 times larger that is collateralized for 550% of your liquidated assets. Or something, it's hard to tell.
Katiana Swan	Posted - 2009.11.11 02:48:00 - [1092] Sure, give Ebank more of your money and assets. They have handled it fantastically so far. Just don't be surprised when your loan collateral is also locked down and made unavailable til 2015
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.11 04:59:00 - [1093] Originally by: Nano Pope overcollateralized loans Hardly. Your ISK isn't worth what it should be, we're just allowing you to use it's actual value without liquidating or selling it. Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2009.11.11 06:20:00 - [1094] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Nano Pope overcollateralized loans Hardly. Your ISK isn't worth what it should be, we're just allowing you to use it's actual value without liquidating or selling it. Hardly. You are actually charging money to use what is not yours, but their own money. Anyone can get 6% interest or less with 100% collateral, but you are charging 6 to 10%, asking for the collateral "to exceed the loan amount in value" and valueing isks at 30% when it's value is 40.33% by your own words. You are overcollateralizing in every step and you are not "allowing people to use the money", you are lending them their own money. _+_ "We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination."
Bluebeard Minmatar LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.11.11 09:49:00 - [1095] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Nano Pope overcollateralized loans Hardly. Your ISK isn't worth what it should be, we're just allowing you to use it's actual value without liquidating or selling it. Hardly. You are actually charging money to use what is not yours, but their own money. Anyone can get 6% interest or less with 100% collateral, but you are charging 6 to 10%, asking for the collateral "to exceed the loan amount in value" and valueing isks at 30% when it's value is 40.33% by your own words. You are overcollateralizing in every step and you are not "allowing people to use the money", you are lending them their own money. So, what you're actually saying, is that Ray has good career prospects if he became a real life banker ?
Dzil Caldari United Kings Holdings	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:43:00 - [1096] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Nano Pope overcollateralized loans Hardly. Your ISK isn't worth what it should be, we're just allowing you to use it's actual value without liquidating or selling it. Hardly. You are actually charging money to use what is not yours, but their own money. Anyone can get 6% interest or less with 100% collateral, but you are charging 6 to 10%, asking for the collateral "to exceed the loan amount in value" and valueing isks at 30% when it's value is 40.33% by your own words. You are overcollateralizing in every step and you are not "allowing people to use the money", you are lending them their own money. I'll agree, that's an uncompetitive offer. On the other hand, Ray and team could probably just lock the isk down entirely bond-style and enter manufacturing/marketing endeavors instead, and make a lot more isk/month than fooling with loans. People wanted a choice, he offered it. Next time specify you want an attractive choice. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Edward Gruberman	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:56:00 - [1097] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Nano Pope overcollateralized loans Hardly. Your ISK isn't worth what it should be, we're just allowing you to use it's actual value without liquidating or selling it. Don't you mean YOUR valuation of OUR isk? You were a bank, not a bond or ipo, which means, we put in 1 isk, it's worth 1 isk. Mismanagement through the bank has lost money, not devalued what isk was deposited. I don't remember ever seeing an IPO or Bond offering when Ebank took deposits. At this point, you're treating this whole affair as a bad investment, instead of a bank that did not, or could not, function as an actual bank. Perhaps it's time to change the name from EBANK, to E-BOND? Or just come out and state, "We can't pay everyone back, so we're going to just fritter away whats left on booze, bullets and babes. Seeya!" That, or those directors left that are trying to 'save' ebank, should just buck up, and pay everyone back with their own funds. Call in all loans. List all collateral at the original value taken in and offer that in lieu of isk to your customers. But seriously, stop stringing everyone along with "Oh we need to do this, and that, and this." You've had over a month to do your 'audit'. You obviously know how much you 'value' our isk, so stop dithering, and just finish up this whole sordid episode. Boot to the head...
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:16:00 - [1098] Originally by: Edward Gruberman Don't you mean YOUR valuation of OUR isk? MY valuation is the only valuation that matters. Regarding your other suggestions : 'lol'. Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Breaker77 Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:29:00 - [1099] Originally by: Ray McCormack MY valuation is the only valuation that matters. Too bad your opinion doesn't matter. You are almost 2 weeks past the deadline that YOU set to release information. You are offering to loan people their ISK for 110% collateral and then charging THEM interest. Just admit EBank has failed and no one is getting their ISK back and move on. How ****ing hard is it to do that??
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:29:00 - [1100] Originally by: Dzil an attractive choice. Hey, let's face it, there's nothing attractive about the current EBANK situation. But we're offering you the best choices we can. Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah

Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:35:00 - [1101] Originally by: Breaker77 Too bad your opinion doesn't matter. /me looks up from the bank vault, keys in hand. Mine is the only opinion that matters, sweet cheeks, and you're doing nothing constructive to change it. Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
mishkof Caldari Hmmzor.	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:46:00 - [1102] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Ray McCormack MY valuation is the only valuation that matters. Too bad your opinion doesn't matter. You are almost 2 weeks past the deadline that YOU set to release information. You are offering to loan people their ISK for 110% collateral and then charging THEM interest. Just admit EBank has failed and no one is getting their ISK back and move on. How ****ing hard is it to do that?? If he did that he wouldnt be getting the next stream of morons on board. As this forum has shown there are a lot of them.
Breaker77 Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:55:00 - [1103] Originally by: Ray McCormack /me looks up from the bank vault, keys in hand. It's empty!! Now is the perfect time to close up, take what assets and ISK are left, call in what loans you can, write it off, and start over with a clean slate. You can reuse the infrastructure and start off with full auditing and reports so everyone knows about every last 0.01 ISK. It would be a lot easier than trying to fix this mess and raise hundreds of billions of ISK. Most of the problems were caused by people that are not even involved with EBank anymore, so your hands are clean. Of course there is the slight problem of probably very few people even wanting to touch a bank again, but thats another story.
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:15:00 - [1104] Originally by: Breaker77 It's empty!! Now is the perfect time to close up, take what assets and ISK are left, call in what loans you can, write it off, and start over with a clean slate. You can reuse the infrastructure and start off with full auditing and reports so everyone knows about every last 0.01 ISK. It would be a lot easier than trying to fix this mess and raise hundreds of billions of ISK. Most of the problems were caused by people that are not even involved with EBank anymore, so your hands are clean. Of course there is the slight problem of probably very few people even wanting to touch a bank again, but thats another story. This is bang on. Unfortunately it's already been stated in various forms yet rejected. Respectfully, I think criticizing the decision to stay open as well as the resulting mess is a waste of time. All that's left is to examine policies in light of the fact that they are staying open, and not weigh them against the alternative of closing. That's why I don't think the deadline is a big deal: given that they're staying open, fixing everything will be difficult and establishing a solid timeline even more so.
Proton Power Amarr Luck Yourself Into Isk	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:21:00 - [1105] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Breaker77 Too bad your opinion doesn't matter. /me looks up from the bank vault, keys in hand. Mine is the only opinion that matters, sweet cheeks, and you're doing nothing constructive to change it. So the BOD has no say in anything? The CEO has no say in anything. Interesting.
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:28:00 - [1106] Originally by: Proton Power Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Breaker77 Too bad your opinion doesn't matter. /me looks up from the bank vault, keys in hand. Mine is the only opinion that matters, sweet cheeks, and you're doing nothing constructive to change it. So the BOD has no say in anything? The CEO has no say in anything. Interesting. or he's simply stating the current wishes of the current BoD as the face of said BoD since he is the chairman... ---------------------- My Blog
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:32:00 - [1107] Originally by: Breaker77 It would be a lot easier than trying to fix this mess and raise hundreds of billions of ISK. And that's the crux of it, why should we shy away from the difficulties we find ourselves presented with? EVE doesn't need another failure, the financial markets require this bank to survive and continue more than anything else. But that's another argument and one I won't get into here. Needless to say I'll reiterate our commitment to restoring the bank to full liquidity. We'll deal with our popularity when get there... Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:38:00 - [1108] Originally by: Omber Zombie or he's simply stating the current wishes of the current BoD as the face of said BoD since he is the chairman... We should start talking in the 3rd person I guess, pander to the lowest common denominator. And he wonders why I told him to stfu... Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:45:00 - [1109] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Nano Pope overcollateralized loans Hardly. Your ISK isn't worth what it should be, we're just allowing you to use it's actual value without liquidating or selling it. Hardly. You are actually charging money to use what is not yours, but their own money. Anyone can get 6% interest or less with 100% collateral, but you are charging 6 to 10%, asking for the collateral "to exceed the loan amount in value" and valueing isks at 30% when it's value is 40.33% by your own words. You are overcollateralizing in every step and you are not "allowing people to use the money", you are lending them their own money. I'll agree, that's an uncompetitive offer. On the other hand, Ray and team could probably just lock the isk down entirely bond-style and enter manufacturing/marketing endeavors instead, and make a lot more isk/month than fooling with loans. People wanted a choice, he offered it. Next time specify you want an attractive choice. I don't care about how bad the offer is (because I have lost no money with ebank) as long as it is an offer (ie: they give something in exchange). The main issue in my eyes is about Ray lieing and saying that the offer is not overcollaterallized when it is indeed, and the fact that he tries to sell it as a favour to ebank's customers when it is the other way. If I had money in ebank I would be very dissapointed, fortunately I don't. My point is if the offer is crap, customers need to know. Beyond any lies. People that wants their money have expressed the choice they want very clear, so your last phrase comes just out of your ass, so to speak. Nobody said that. When people asked for a choice it was to liquidate their acount for whathever their piece of the cake were. Next time keep your first hand, the other one looks a bit faulty. _+_ "We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination."[img]http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Morpheus/E
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:56:00 - [1110] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus The main issue in my eyes is about Ray lieing and saying that the offer is not overcollaterallized when it is indeed, and the fact that he tries to sell it as a favour to ebank's customers when it is the other way. I have no idea what you're on about now, so I'll try explain it in bullet form. * Account holder ISK is frozen, they cannot use it. * Account holder ISK is worth 40% of it's actual value. * We're offering to allow them to leverage that value (less 10% to avoid any unpleasant surprises down the road) by using it as collateral on a loan. * Account holders can now use their capital, something they couldn't do before. * Overcollateralising (sic) loans is just good business sense, would you prefer I did it the unsecured route? Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah



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