Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 32 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
270
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:00:00 -
[331] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
who told you that you can't move ore into your cargohold and thus having 8k m-¦ + 10k m-¦ (your numbers) as "operational space"? the blog did not say "there shall be no more ore in cargo holds". maybe wait until the idea gets more fleshed out in another dev blog? geeee.......
I never said that. Of corse I can move that stuff into the cargo hold... I have absolutely no need to though. I mine with an orca. Ore goes straight from my big expanded cargo hold straight into my orcas corporate hangers. This new change dumps mined ore right to a new ore bay, that cannot be expanded. This means I will have to dump the ore hold to the corporate hangers much more often, or face all my lasers shutting down on me. This is what I am mad about... Some of us like to do stuff while mining. I didn't realize that highsec mining was supposed to be such an attentive operation ^^. |
Torneach
Viziam Amarr Empire
253
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:03:00 -
[332] - Quote
Looking good, I do have a few concerns, mostly with regards to the mineral costs of the rebalanced 'untiered' ships.
Currently, in the tiered system, the weaker frigates cost fewer minerals to produce, corresponding to their comparable weakness to the more powerful frigates, namely the Punisher, Merlin, Incursus, and Rifter. Among other factors including demand, this causes the weaker lower tier frigates to be much cheaper on the market than the powerful combat frigates.
When these changes go live, will the build requirements for the newly-balanced ships be adjusted to reflect the new untiered design system? |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
270
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:05:00 -
[333] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Maul555 wrote:Mackinaws have always been Ice mining platforms because of bonusesGǪ GǪand you're sure they'll remain ice mining ships with the same bonuses? And if they do retain the T2 roles, use a Retriever instead GÇö same solo-centric design, without the odd bonus for a different resource than the one you're interested in. Quote:it seems really wierd for a Mackinaw to be the "best choice" for mining ore in my playstyle, because CCP took away customizations options. Actually, they gave you even more options, because now you have six useful ships to choose between for this task, with a much wide span of abilities, and every one of them can be customised to match your needs. Quote:No. The problem is that CCP is forcing ore into a new bay that cannot be expanded. I am loosing operational space. So what? You don't need it any more. You jettison the stuff or transfer it to the Orca directly once every six minutes, which requires such a pitiful amount of attention that it should have roughly zero impact on your operation. Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:who told you that you can't move ore into your cargohold and thus having 8k m-¦ + 10k m-¦ (your numbers) as "operational space"? I did, because it doesn't make any sense to let them retain their current cargo holds given the design goals provided in the blog.
Tippia, Now you are just arguing to argue... I have stated my position and pointed out some possible unintended consequences. The devs will now do what they do. I am done. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys Dark Legion Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:09:00 -
[334] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
who told you that you can't move ore into your cargohold and thus having 8k m-¦ + 10k m-¦ (your numbers) as "operational space"? the blog did not say "there shall be no more ore in cargo holds". maybe wait until the idea gets more fleshed out in another dev blog? geeee.......
I never said that. Of corse I can move that stuff into the cargo hold... I have absolutely no need to though. I mine with an orca. Ore goes straight from my big expanded cargo hold straight into my orcas corporate hangers. This new change dumps mined ore right to a new ore bay, that cannot be expanded. This means I will have to dump the ore hold to the corporate hangers much more often, or face all my lasers shutting down on me. This is what I am mad about... Some of us like to do stuff while mining. I didn't realize that highsec mining was supposed to be such an attentive operation ^^.
ah, got it. you are an afk miner. well i have to say, thats whining on a very high level... i also like to do stuff while mining and 3 minutes (even with full orca bonus and mining drones you can not get below that) give you plenty of time to do so. 1 second later you can go afk again. i do not see the problem. there is really potential in the new changes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7945
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:11:00 -
[335] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Tippia, Now you are just arguing to argue... I have stated my position and pointed out some possible unintended consequences. The devs will now do what they do. I am done. GǪand I'm saying that they're not unintended and that the things you consider problems are actually the solution to the problem tiercide is trying to fix.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
gfldex
565
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:14:00 -
[336] - Quote
:o
With that frigate you will turn me into a miner! When someone burns down your sandcastle, bring sausages. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
271
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:15:00 -
[337] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Maul555 wrote:Tippia, Now you are just arguing to argue... I have stated my position and pointed out some possible unintended consequences. The devs will now do what they do. I am done. GǪand I'm saying that they're not unintended and that the things you consider problems are actually the solution to the problem tiercide is trying to fix.
You cant know it's intentional unless you are one of the DEV's or know someone who knows something specific that you are not letting on about.
In any case. Its not something I am going to rage quit over. I would really like to drop the topic now as the new changes appear to be creating a fanboi attitude and spawning arguments. |
Swearte Widfarend
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:25:00 -
[338] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Maul555 wrote:Tippia, Now you are just arguing to argue... I have stated my position and pointed out some possible unintended consequences. The devs will now do what they do. I am done. GǪand I'm saying that they're not unintended and that the things you consider problems are actually the solution to the problem tiercide is trying to fix. Tiericide has nothing to do with the Mining Barge changes except that in removing the racial frigate that was substituted as a frigate miner, CCP noticed the rest of the barge fleet and decided to tweak it.
CCP is redefining the functionality and roles of Mining Barges, but (like a few other ships in EVE), two mining barges actually had roles that were specific and being filled correctly.
This is ship rebalancing - I'd expect you to understand the difference - and people are asking questions because some of the changes being suggested (because this is change for the next 4-5 months) are vague, which means they aren't fully thought out or fleshed out yet.
CCP is defining roles for ships - some of us realize that at least two of the six ships in the barge class have roles that they already perform fairly well, and want to know if that is changing. Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:30:00 -
[339] - Quote
I keep seeing people say miners will continue to use the Hulk because of the yield. Did everyone miss this part of the blog?
Quote: Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently.
|
Selissa Shadoe
98
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:30:00 -
[340] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:
Tippia, Now you are just arguing to argue...
It's just what she does. You didn't think that smug character pic was JUST a picture did you? |
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
271
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:32:00 -
[341] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:I keep seeing people say miners will continue to use the Hulk because of the yield. Did everyone miss this part of the blog? Quote: Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently.
I didn't miss it. I like it and cant wait for it. It will make barges much more useful in wormholes especially. |
Sheol Duncan
B0rthole Test Alliance Please Ignore
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:32:00 -
[342] - Quote
No destroyer/battlecruiser change, but any word on the removal of the Battleship 5 requirement for caps that was in the original dev blog? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7946
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:37:00 -
[343] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tiericide has nothing to do with the Mining Barge changes GǪyou mean, aside from them removing the tiers from mining barges and exhumers, and giving them distinct roles rather than just be +1 to the previous model (which is exactly the point of tiercide).
Quote:This is ship rebalancing [GǪ] CCP is defining roles for ships. Exactly: tiercide.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
271
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:38:00 -
[344] - Quote
OMG!!!! T2 Mining Frig: Covert Ops Ninja Miner? |
Nate Gordo
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:38:00 -
[345] - Quote
IS there anything in the pipeline to improve the Hel Supercarrier, as it doesnt really serve a function with its current bonuses, could it be worked that its a rate of fire bonus for drones, just so it can be brought on par with the other supercarriers, which either tank better or do more dps. At the momemtn it can't stay in the fight for as long or do as much damage, so whats is the point of the Hel as a supercarrier.
The Nidhoggur could do with some work too, as its supposedly the best support carrier in terms of bonus but is nearly matched by the Archon which can tank better.
The Hel and Nidhoggur are not well balanced, and they should be.
On another note good work on the mining frig looks awesome. |
Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders MPA
98
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:45:00 -
[346] - Quote
Very exciting changes coming here. I see a lot of arguing about what the changes will do to the various barges/exhumers, yet, unless someone has inside info, is a lot of conjecture not based on facts.
What we know besides what was written in the blog is that CCP is looking to get away from t1,t2,t3 ships and instead re-purpose ship hulls. Before we start hitting panic buttons left, right and center, lets try to wait and see what details emerge. I can already see that this will make nice new challenges for ganking. I believe the gankers won't be crying, they will be excited at the new challenges to accomplish what they want.
Miners will have to balance between solo-mining with lower yield, huge ore hold ships and higher yield, lower capacity ships. Or join a fleet. Eve has always been and will always be, about choices and trade-offs. One size should NOT fit all. I would like to stare at a different ship every now and then when mining. Although, I sure don't know if I could take the extra excitement.
I would like to see modules for giving mining bonuses instead of role bonuses. I could see that as being something interesting for use. It would give miners additional choices/trade-offs.
Change is good, this whole blog was full of good. Keep up the good work CCP. I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1294
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:47:00 -
[347] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Did you read the same thread I did?
I haven't seen tons of baseless, idiotic claims or tears (except for a few who really want the hulk to have the BS tank). The last couple of pages are pretty bad, especially all the crap about the Hulk's tank and cargo expanders and such. v0v Swearte Widfarend wrote:This discussion is much more reasonable than the Sisi Wardec thread... Can't argue with you on that point. ******* tinfoil...
It's all of 1 guy. TO THE INTERNETS! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2083
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:49:00 -
[348] - Quote
As a miner the changes in the mining ships is the best news I've heard for us rock hounds since the Orrca!
I agree it would nice is not only is the small barge a tough little guy but slippery as well. Give it the ability to quickly warp away and suddenly ninja mining in dangerous areas becomes attractive!
When I saw the dev blog prior to release I couldn't wait for it to go out so I could talk about it. Now all I can say is thanks CCP for showing us miners some overdue love!
These mining ship changes are going to be awesome!
Issler |
Zorok
Edge of Abyss Guardian Knights Citizens
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:51:00 -
[349] - Quote
Rrama Ratamnim wrote:Zorok wrote:Hi, I'm happy to hear that you are willing to give *some* of the mining barges a bit of a buff against attackers. The ore hold bonus to the retriever/mackinaw is nice but I don't think that 1 jettison can worth of ore + a bit tougher defense is going to get people to switch to using these ships. The best setup for a lone miner is to use a hulk to mine and then use an Orca to pick up the jet cans. I believe that if you want to make the ore hold really worth while on the mackinaw/retriever, you should look at the minimum of 4 jet cans in space if you're expecting pilots to give up using a Hulk/Orca combo.
In Eve, time is money and vice versa- unless you can make the mackinaw/retriever mine more efficiently w/o Orca or other hauler support (basically make it mine more or equivalent to a Hulk mining and then the time it would take to fly back to station and grab an orca to haul jet cans etc), the Mackinaw/Retriever will be used by only a small percentage of players.
To the point: CCP, make the Mackinaw/Retriever worth my time as a lone miner and I will use this over the Hulk. a bit of an ehp buff? are you serious? BATTLE SHIP TANK = 100k EHP You seriously dont seem to be calculating in the whole loss of 1 hulk = -300m ISK thats a lot of mining every time you loose one, which during certain times mainly in highsec happens quite often.
It doesn't really matter what kind of buff they give it. If you get scrambled, you are most likely going to die. When mining, agility and speed is everything. You should be gone by the time hostiles show up at your mining spot. |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:52:00 -
[350] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:I wonder how many people are gonna complain about barges with battleship sized EHP, especially with large ore holds? I am sure there is going to be a tear or two over them.
Seemed rather clear you got either the Battlrship like EHP, or the jetcan sized ore-hold, not both.But yes, Pirate/Goon tears incoming. Also, with huge cargohold, now one can truly "AFK" mine, as opposed to haveing to swap the crap into a can every 3 minutes.
|
|
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:52:00 -
[351] - Quote
Good news, however, I could not help notice the part of where we need to wait another 6 months for balancing. Why not sooner? This is exactly what I was afraid of. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
358
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:53:00 -
[352] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tiericide has nothing to do with the Mining Barge changes GǪyou mean, aside from them removing the tiers from mining barges and exhumers, and giving them distinct roles rather than just be +1 to the previous model (which is exactly the point of tiercide). Quote:This is ship rebalancing [GǪ] CCP is defining roles for ships. Exactly: tiercide.
How do you have sooo much patience in the face of willful obliviousness?? I'm in awe!!!
Overall, I think the changes sound good... It will be interesting to see the outcome. I like the role changes to the mining barges, and sincerely hope they maintain the tradeoff between haul, yield, and tank. It sounds like CCP is planning to (i.e. no major tank buff to hulk), but I'm weary of the announced BS-quality-tank exhumer with a "closer yield" to the hulk...
I really like the idea of the hulk gaining a cruiser-quality agility, and having a decent agility - orehold tradeoff to the various mining vessels! |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3429
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 18:57:00 -
[353] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:I wonder how many people are gonna complain about barges with battleship sized EHP, especially with large ore holds? I am sure there is going to be a tear or two over them. Seemed rather clear you got either the Battlrship like EHP, or the jetcan sized ore-hold, not both.But yes, Pirate/Goon tears incoming. Also, with huge cargohold, now one can truly "AFK" mine, as opposed to haveing to swap the crap into a can every 3 minutes. one might suppose if those "tears" were actually coming they'd be in the thread by now
soz m8 not everyone cries as delightfully as miners |
Rek Esket
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 19:03:00 -
[354] - Quote
The primary problem with the non-Hulk iterations of Exhumers is their limited CPU, if you brought them up to the same baseline level as Hulks they'd be far more competitive. |
Unforgiven Rage
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 19:12:00 -
[355] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe: strengthening current roles as support frigates. Which mainly means scanning and possibly mini-profession operations, like hacking and codebreaking as well.
Suggestion:
Please give these frigs also 1 bonus for cyno activities and a cargo hold that can store at least 3 cycles of cyno fuel for a pilot with level 2/3 to open cynos.
Thanks
|
Unforgiven Rage
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 19:20:00 -
[356] - Quote
Question:
When the frigs tiers are gone and these changes are in tranquility will the materials of constrution defined in the Bpos/Bpcs be ajusted to reflect this new reality of no tiers and the new ships funtionality in game? If yes when should we expect these changes? |
MidnightWyvern
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 19:20:00 -
[357] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:this looks pretty cool, and new destroyers are a good idea (love the idea of drone destroyers)
but one thing bothers me all ships and ship changes lately have been mostly positive for new players, even when t3 cruisers got introduced, their skill sets where set so they can be trained quite fast. so when are you going to give us vets a few new toys?
also what happend to t3 in other ship classes?
I'm curious about this as well. I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to have Strategic Frigates and Battleships to pilot. I'm fully onboard with redoing all of T1 to make them all useful ships, as that's been something we've needed for a while, but I hope its not coming at the cost of innovation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
136
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 19:25:00 -
[358] - Quote
Quote:Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently. Autonomy: mining barges should have proper cargo holds so they not always have to rely on jet cans (without turning them into industrials however). That means giving them large, specialized ore bays where all the ore will automatically go into when mining. Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them. As a result we thus get:
New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience. Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP. Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge. Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.
My constructive feedback is that I ******* love you. Whoever is responsible, please show yourself so that I can kiss you. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
804
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 19:25:00 -
[359] - Quote
Quote:New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience. Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP. Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge. Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.
Looks interesting, but begs to wonder what will be the exact stats and what they call a "battleship EHP" in Reykjavik.
The difference between "ore bay" and "cargo hold" just was a strike of good sense waiting to happen. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Gogela
Direct Action LLC.
810
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 19:27:00 -
[360] - Quote
The new mining frigate looks awesome, and I don't even mine!
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 32 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |