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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
462
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:33:00 -
[361] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Johan March wrote:The destroyer changes sound good too, but the old Navy man in me says "destroyer not [strike]shore[/strike] planet bombardment ship". Now special forces team insertion. That's what destroyers do. That's what happened in the trailer at FanFest, come to think of it. A Coercer dropped a team of DUST mercs onto a planet.
I hate to tell an old Navy guy he is wrong, but the US Navy has often used destroyers for shore and other in-land target bombardment.
I like the way the change are heading. New models would be nice, espeicall if they were based off the stylings of the new Yellow 'Vincent' mining frigate (looks like something from 'The Black Hole meets WALLY') and the Noctis. Check out the new Orca model, brought to you by the Unified Inventory System
http://i.imgur.com/InJgK.jpg-á
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In ViTrIoL
Sons of Ivaldi Zero Hour Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:38:00 -
[362] - Quote
What about a gas harvesting barge!!! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1168
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:43:00 -
[363] - Quote
One concern is mining barge agility. Having a nice big buffer tank is pointless when the main defense is agility to warp out. I am all for barges having huge tanks so they can last while the protection fleet engages the attackers. But if the barge can be in warp long before an attacker can even land in the belt, there is no need for a protection fleet or a big tank.
Give the barges the big tank, but nerf the **** out of their agility so the tank has a point. Also don't allow mining lasers to activate if the ship is above 20% top speed.
Maybe my specific suggestions are off, but I hope everyone understands the point.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Serenity Arsten
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:46:00 -
[364] - Quote
New Destroyers??!!?? I may have to train that up, then...
p.s., As mentioned earlier; some pictures of said "New Destroyers" would be fan-frikkin-tastic. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
382
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:53:00 -
[365] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:
In addition to my Hulk comment, I also don't want to see any tank buffs on the Hulk as it is already capable of achieving over 30,000 EHP with the right skills and mods. Those who always complain about the Hulk's lack of tank happens to be those who always fit cargo rigs and cargo mods (these take away tank) then complain why a cruiser took out their Hulk.
no.. all mining barges should receive a buff to their innate tank - they're cruiser sized hulls. that being said skiff - battleship like tank mackinaw - battlecruiser sized tank hulk: weak cruiser sized tank for base tanks.. then mod how you want. add some new modules that increase ore bay at a meaningful cost to tank, maybe some mining rigs that hurt tank too. CCP already stated they're going to make the mining yield spread much closer than it is now.
1. The Hulk, Mackinaw, and Skiff are not mining barges. They are exhumers (T2). Get it right. Although the blog does mention them, the changes seem to imply that the barges are going to be more specialized like the exhumers rather than being a kid's bike with training wheels.
2. These are mining ships, not combat ships. The Procurer/Skiff are the only exception to that statement as they are meant more for sneaking into low-sec space, mine, and getting out fast. The changes in the blog help compliment their purpose. In the case of the Hulk, it's meant more for operating in null-sec where it has the protection of its fellow alliance, which explains the current base tank it has. Although, it can survive NPC rats in 0.0. Hell, I took a Hulk into a combat PvE mission once and it did well.
3. As for your comment about new mods that increase the bay at the expense of tank, we got that already. Their called Cargohold Optimizations and Expanded Cargoholds. They eat at your hull or armor. Adapt or Die |
Swearte Widfarend
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
83
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:53:00 -
[366] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Tiericide has nothing to do with the Mining Barge changes GǪyou mean, aside from them removing the tiers from mining barges and exhumers, and giving them distinct roles rather than just be +1 to the previous model (which is exactly the point of tiercide). Quote:This is ship rebalancing [GǪ] CCP is defining roles for ships. Exactly: tiercide.
Um, no. Perhaps next time if you don't selectively quote me, you will accept the possibility that you aren't right 100% of the time. I know that's a challenge for you, so I'm not optimistic, but hey, CCP is working on EVE, the spaceship game so miracles can happen.
The only piece of what is happening to Mining Barges that can be called "tiericide" is the removal of the requirement to train Mining Barge past level 1 to fly the Tech 1 barges. Tiericide is being done to ship classes while at the same time roles are being introduced to provide differentiation between ships (and theoretical usefulness). Two different things - related but not the same thing.
The difference with the discussion on the barges is that CCP is not just touching the Tech 1 ships - they are touching the Tech 2 ships as well, and those ships already had roles. Nowhere has CCP clarified if those roles are going to continue, and in fact the vague role definitions in the devblog hint that they might not.
Hence the question.
Did you follow that, or do I need to use smaller words? Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth. |
Torneach
Viziam Amarr Empire
256
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:56:00 -
[367] - Quote
Unforgiven Rage wrote:Question:
When the frigs tiers are gone and these changes are in tranquility will the materials of constrution defined in the Bpos/Bpcs be ajusted to reflect this new reality of no tiers and the new ships funtionality in game? If yes when should we expect these changes?
I asked a similar question, an answer would be great, CCP.
EDIT: If they can find it in this mess of back-and-forth about the mining barges... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7948
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:57:00 -
[368] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:Um, no. GǪaside from tiercide being exactly that: the removal of tiers and instead giving ships specific roles, just like they're doing with the barges and exhumers.
Quote:The only piece of what is happening to Mining Barges that can be called "tiericide" is the removal of the requirement to train Mining Barge past level 1 to fly the Tech 1 barges. Tiericide is being done to ship classes while at the same time roles are being introduced to provide differentiation between ships (and theoretical usefulness). GǪwhich is exactly what they're doing to the exhumers and barges.
Quote:The difference with the discussion on the barges is that CCP is not just touching the Tech 1 ships - they are touching the Tech 2 ships as well, and those ships already had roles. They also had tiers. Now they're removing those tiers and adjusting the rolesGǪ you know, tiercide. What they're doing to the exhumers is no different than what they're doing to the T1 frigates, and what they're doing to the barges is tiercide at its finest since those ships were only about the tiers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
271
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:00:00 -
[369] - Quote
CCP has not mentioned what is happening with the current Exhumer roles (Mercoxit - Skiff, Ice - Mackinaw, Ore - Hulk)... This is a fact.
Would it be possible to get some clarification? |
Nyreanya
Serenity Labs New Eden Research.
164
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:03:00 -
[370] - Quote
The mining barge changes are perfect! You should be able to sacrifice yield for more tank on different hulls. Brilliant. I'm unreasonably happy. |
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Swearte Widfarend
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
85
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:04:00 -
[371] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Um, no. GǪaside from tiercide being exactly that: the removal of tiers and instead giving ships specific roles, just like they're doing with the barges and exhumers. Quote:The only piece of what is happening to Mining Barges that can be called "tiericide" is the removal of the requirement to train Mining Barge past level 1 to fly the Tech 1 barges. Tiericide is being done to ship classes while at the same time roles are being introduced to provide differentiation between ships (and theoretical usefulness). GǪwhich is exactly what they're doing to the exhumers and barges. Quote:The difference with the discussion on the barges is that CCP is not just touching the Tech 1 ships - they are touching the Tech 2 ships as well, and those ships already had roles. They also had tiers. Now they're removing those tiers and adjusting the rolesGǪ you know, tiercide.
So did I miss in the Devblog where you don't have to train the Exhumer skill past level 1 to fly all 3"? Hmmm.. Nope. It's not there. Therefore, tiericide does not apply to the proposed changes on the Exhumers. They already had roles, which is the "new" model CCP is following. They weren't just +1 (if that's what you want to use for your definition of tiericide). Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
81
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:05:00 -
[372] - Quote
Looks good! Can't wait to test those rebalanced frigs. ORE frigate looks great!
And I really like what you're doing to mining ships. Can't wait the tear flood from gankers. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1257
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:09:00 -
[373] - Quote
Heh. Look at all the "I want to be safe" miners thinkng the changes will make them safe, and their impotent chestbeating.
Bets that they will be the ones whining about the cruiser buff when it happens?
I haven't actually ganked any exhumer yet, but once these changes drop and the carebear glee is high, I may want to fix my sec status and show miners a sweet game called "bumper cars". Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Alli Othman
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
26
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:10:00 -
[374] - Quote
Sexy, sexy changes... There seems to be a puddle on my desk and chair now... |
Denidil
Larimer Highlands Heavy Industries
277
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:10:00 -
[375] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Denidil wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:
In addition to my Hulk comment, I also don't want to see any tank buffs on the Hulk as it is already capable of achieving over 30,000 EHP with the right skills and mods. Those who always complain about the Hulk's lack of tank happens to be those who always fit cargo rigs and cargo mods (these take away tank) then complain why a cruiser took out their Hulk.
no.. all mining barges should receive a buff to their innate tank - they're cruiser sized hulls. that being said skiff - battleship like tank mackinaw - battlecruiser sized tank hulk: weak cruiser sized tank for base tanks.. then mod how you want. add some new modules that increase ore bay at a meaningful cost to tank, maybe some mining rigs that hurt tank too. CCP already stated they're going to make the mining yield spread much closer than it is now. 1. The Hulk, Mackinaw, and Skiff are not mining barges. They are exhumers (T2). Get it right. Although the blog does mention them, the changes seem to imply that the barges are going to be more specialized like the exhumers rather than being a kid's bike with training wheels. 2. These are mining ships, not combat ships. The Procurer/Skiff are the only exception to that statement as they are meant more for sneaking into low-sec space, mine, and getting out fast. The changes in the blog help compliment their purpose. In the case of the Hulk, it's meant more for operating in null-sec where it has the protection of its fellow alliance, which explains the current base tank it has. Although, it can survive NPC rats in 0.0. Hell, I took a Hulk into a combat PvE mission once and it did well. 3. As for your comment about new mods that increase the bay at the expense of tank, we got that already. Their called Cargohold Optimizations and Expanded Cargoholds. They eat at your hull or armor.
1) i'm sorry i'm being lazy and referring to mining barges and their high tech equivalents collectively by their T1 name. if it annoys you i will continue doing it. (if it doesn't annoy you, i will also continue doing it)
2) that old stupid argument. did i anywhere say to put guns on them? there is no reason a mining ship cannot have a ******* shielding system. stupid ass argument. it is clear from CCP's statement that they're upping the tank for everything
3) did you notice the part where i said "ore bay" not "cargo hold"? I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1257
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:14:00 -
[376] - Quote
OH, and ib4 tears when bears realize there are no cargohold expander mods for ore bays (and there will most likely be none). Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7948
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:19:00 -
[377] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:So did I miss in the Devblog where you don't have to train the Exhumer skill past level 1 to fly all 3"? Hmmm.. Nope. It's not there. Therefore, tiericide does not apply to the proposed changes on the Exhumers. They already had roles, which is the "new" model CCP is following. They weren't just +1 (if that's what you want to use for your definition of tiericide). Did you notice the part where they said you don't have to train the Frigate skill past lvl I to fly all seven? Nope. Not there. So congratulations, you've just proven that they're not doing any tiercide on the frigates.
Like I said: what they're doing to the exhumers is the exact same thing as they're doing to the frigates (because, they already have different roles as well). Both are tiercide.
Oh, and the exhumers were pretty much +1 as well. The Hulk could do the job of the other two just fine (or even better in some circumstances).
Petrus Blackshell wrote:OH, and ib4 tears when bears realize there are no cargohold expander mods for ore bays (and there will most likely be none). You're way too late on that oneGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Denidil
Larimer Highlands Heavy Industries
277
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:21:00 -
[378] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:OH, and ib4 tears when bears realize there are no cargohold expander mods for ore bays (and there will most likely be none).
as someone with both combat and industrial accounts - would they be nice to have? yup and i suggested it am i going to be upset not getting them? nope, my industrial char's hulk is not cargo expandered I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
120
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:26:00 -
[379] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:this looks pretty cool, and new destroyers are a good idea (love the idea of drone destroyers)
but one thing bothers me all ships and ship changes lately have been mostly positive for new players, even when t3 cruisers got introduced, their skill sets where set so they can be trained quite fast. so when are you going to give us vets a few new toys?
also what happend to t3 in other ship classes?
You act like the vets don't get these new toys, too. Or is your ePeen the measure of your total skillpoint? If you want a game based around leveling up, go play some other mmo, please. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
17
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:29:00 -
[380] - Quote
The changes for mining barges are spot-on, however one thing troubles me - will hulk receive the ore bay of the default cargo bay size (8k m-¦) or will it be more like with expanded cargohold and rigs (in range of 17k m-¦)? And what will be the difference in yeld between Mack and hulk? 'Cause atm hulk mines at 1.5x of mack's yeld. |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1257
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:35:00 -
[381] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:OH, and ib4 tears when bears realize there are no cargohold expander mods for ore bays (and there will most likely be none). You're way too late on that oneGǪ Tch, that's what I get for not reading through 18 pages of stuff. Oh well.
On another topic, frigate changes look super sweet! I can't wait to use my Navitas. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
397
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:37:00 -
[382] - Quote
i think it's really disheartening that you guys arent touching the heart of the game (BC's and cruisers) until next year. why are you dragging your feet like this? balance the damn drake already, bring T3's in line, buff command ships, give HAC's a freaking role... i mean what are you doing? who gives a **** about t1 frigs? |
Denidil
Larimer Highlands Heavy Industries
277
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:38:00 -
[383] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:i think it's really disheartening that you guys arent touching the heart of the game (BC's and cruisers) until next year. why are you dragging your feet like this? balance the damn drake already, bring T3's in line, buff command ships, give HAC's a freaking role... i mean what are you doing? who gives a **** about t1 frigs?
because they're trying to do it right - balance from the ground up and you don't have to go back and rebalance later I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics
745
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:38:00 -
[384] - Quote
Before you make the Bantam into any kind of warship you really ought to consider making it look less like a flying ballsack. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7952
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:40:00 -
[385] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Before you make the Bantam into any kind of warship you really ought to consider making it look less like a flying ballsack. Nah. That's just tea-bagging, EVE-style. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
397
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:41:00 -
[386] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:i think it's really disheartening that you guys arent touching the heart of the game (BC's and cruisers) until next year. why are you dragging your feet like this? balance the damn drake already, bring T3's in line, buff command ships, give HAC's a freaking role... i mean what are you doing? who gives a **** about t1 frigs? because they're trying to do it right - balance from the ground up and you don't have to go back and rebalance later
it's not ground up. frigs are an entirely different beast from cruisers and bc's. unless your talking modules, which we're not. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
202
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:42:00 -
[387] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Haifisch Zahne wrote: However, I will point out that I and many others wasted a lot of time training Destroyer and Battlecruiser to Lever V because of the announced changes when my neural map was just horrible for it. Something on the order of around 20 days. Wasted. Thanks.
Just thought I'd point out that those two skills are some of the most useful in the entire game. You'd be hard pressed to convince everyone it was a waste of time. Go forth and pwn, you've got a lot of options now!! So very true. I put 2 characters training plans on hold to train BC V just in case as the original blog was unclear on the time frame. I regret nothing. |
Challu
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
34
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:45:00 -
[388] - Quote
Nice going, CCP!
New players seem to blaze their way through frigs and cruisers onto BCs and BSes. This led to having one month old pilots in drakes/canes who didn't know much of anything about anything about flying ships right, and lots of unnecessary heartache. By giving them more defined roles and making them more interesting, hopefully it will encourage people to learn how to fly what they can fly well, and not just sprint to tiers of ships they are not ready for.
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Fade Toblack
Per.ly The 20 Minuters
23
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:47:00 -
[389] - Quote
ivar R'dhak wrote:amarr droneboats?!?
Obviously I've just been imagining the Arbitrator then.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
202
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:47:00 -
[390] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:Denidil wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:i think it's really disheartening that you guys arent touching the heart of the game (BC's and cruisers) until next year. why are you dragging your feet like this? balance the damn drake already, bring T3's in line, buff command ships, give HAC's a freaking role... i mean what are you doing? who gives a **** about t1 frigs? because they're trying to do it right - balance from the ground up and you don't have to go back and rebalance later it's not ground up. frigs are an entirely different beast from cruisers and bc's. unless your talking modules, which we're not. Frigates are pretty much the ground here, that's where you start and what everyone can fly. Granted you fly them differently than other, heavier ship classes, but prioritizing larger ship classes, especially in the case of T2 cruisers which generally need a bit of a buff, only further exasperates the problems with frigates and risks pushing even some good frigates into obsolescence. |
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