There is a lot of reading fail in this thread, and a lot of misinformation on how things work.


They started with frigates because there are the most of them, and they have to start from the ground up to set the power and ability levels. If you rebalance a drake now, but then buff the frigates and cruisers later, you then have to go back and re-rebalance the drake so that it fits nicely in line with the changes.

Yes, We are impatient and want the ships we fly most often new and shiny. But that doesn't exactly work out well.

Also, It isn't just rebalancing. The roles defined by frigates will be reflected in new ships in other hull sizes. Look to see new support battleships, and other T2 variants down the line.

Also, Ship balance team is not all of CCP. Ship balance doesn't work on artwork, doesn't work on UI stuff, doesn't work on modules and balance within. Just because the tiercide changes are taking a while, doesn't mean you won't see other updates in the mean time. I.e. Inferno saw new frigate changes, and a whole crap ton of other gameplay changes as well.


That said, onto the dev blog:

The current changes to the mining barges is not a final list, They said they would look at barge EHP, stop whining about the gankability of Hulks, when they have already said they will address it. You're just shouting at the people who are giving you want you want and making yourself look bad for failing to read.

I like it. With the exception to the idea of every racing having drone boats. This is a gallente weapon predominantly, and should be stuck on amarr/gallente ships near exclusively. Give us SOME reason to fly gal for once. Racial homoginization is bad, and drones are very much a gallente racial characteristic. Drone bays on some ships are fine, just make sure that the Gallente version has a better bay/better bandwidth.

If ccp adds ore hold expanders and rigs, this would fix a lot of problems. also add a lot more options to orcas...

They arn't

I figured this would eventually end up as some sperg-fest with miners claiming "tears" and making all sorts of baseless, idiotic claims, and I'm sad to see I'm right. Oh well, guess I'll just wait for all this to hit Sisi.

Definitely going to train for that mining frigate though, at the very least just to fly it around.

I figured this would eventually end up as some sperg-fest with miners claiming "tears" and making all sorts of baseless, idiotic claims, and I'm sad to see I'm right. Oh well, guess I'll just wait for all this to hit Sisi.

Definitely going to train for that mining frigate though, at the very least just to fly it around.

yeah im not sure why anyone thinks we'd be upset about this: the people who would fly the tanked barges are flying battleships right now

this just gives us new reasons to mock our victims

hell they'll probably take a skiff and fit it for max yield and in doing so make it still paper thin

If it kept its current bay, it would be able to achieve 17k+ m-¦ primary + 8k m-¦ ore, which is well within the range of competing with industrial ships.

Did you read the same thread I did?

I haven't seen tons of baseless, idiotic claims or tears (except for a few who really want the hulk to have the BS tank).

This discussion is much more reasonable than the Sisi Wardec thread...

disagree about the pace. They do need to get faster at this. They've already been hinting at it for a year. Then we got 5 frigs changed. Now we are looking at more years of waiting for the big problem areas to get addressed.

For frigates racial homogenization is no big deal as long as the camel's nose under the tent syndrome doesn't take hold. With only 4 racial tech I cruisers, one being logi, one being ewar, it doesn't lend itself to each race having a drone boat or a missile boat. ANd then with only 3 BCs and 3 BSs there is little danger of homogenization up the chain.

A caldari drone frig and a Gallente missile frig is not a big deal. If it manages to avoid future whines on the forums for a Caldari drone Cruiser or BS or a Gallente missile cruiser or BS by providing experience and knowledge of other weapon systems, and inducing racial cross training to an individually preferred type it would be a positive. Too many posts are of the variety of "my weapon system sucks but his weapon system (with which I have no experience) sure looks better . . ."

So if I want to semi-afk mine ore in highsec, I have to use a mackinaw now. and its my problem? mining ore in a mackinaw? that just seems pants on head ********.

If ccp adds ore hold expanders and rigs, this would fix all the problems I can see.

at a much higher cost.

The last couple of pages are pretty bad, especially all the crap about the Hulk's tank and cargo expanders and such. v0v


Can't argue with you on that point. ******* tinfoil...

Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them.

capable of having battleship-like EHP.

I predict an incoming wave angry gankers.

Why is it ********? It'll be the best ship for the job. Picking the best ship rather than one that doesn't do the same job as well seems rather clever, I'd thinkGǪ


What problems? Your refusal to fly any other ship than a Hulk isn't a game design problem GÇö it's just you being stubborn.

Again, get out of the GÇ£Hulk is best GÇö must use Hulk!GÇ¥ mindset and the problems you're having instantly vanish.

Doesn't matter.

Pointing out what may be an unintentional operational nerf to Hulks, and a lesser extent Covetors, is not whining. Debating the merits of changes and giving the devs something to think about is what this forum is for.

However, I will point out that I and many others wasted a lot of time training Destroyer and Battlecruiser to Lever V because of the announced changes when my neural map was just horrible for it. Something on the order of around 20 days. Wasted. Thanks.

...part of what players now call GÇ£tiericideGÇ¥...

However, I will point out that I and many others wasted a lot of time training Destroyer and Battlecruiser to Lever V because of the announced changes when my neural map was just horrible for it. Something on the order of around 20 days. Wasted. Thanks.

Considering the ships are being re-purposed into new roles, I'd say it's not exactly an "unintentional operational nerf". Retriever/Mack will be the ship of choice for AFK solo mining, Hulk/Covetor for fleet mining (hence no real need for a bigger hold), Procurer/Skiff for specialized work and also for the paranoid. The ships will not have the same stats after this change.

In short, you're whining.

Mackinaws have always been Ice mining platforms because of bonuses, and Hulks for all Ores except Mercoxit. I understand that CCP is tryign to shake things up a bit, but it seems really wierd for a Mackinaw to be the "best choice" for mining ore in my playstyle, because CCP took away customizations options.

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No. The problem is that CCP is forcing ore into a new bay that cannot be expanded. I am loosing operational space. This requires more attention to keep my lasers from automatically shutting off when the bay gets full. You cannot deny that they have taken away customizations options by forcing that stuff into an ore hold. That's what I am talking about. And that's the problem that ore bay expanders/rigs would solve.

In addition to my Hulk comment, I also don't want to see any tank buffs on the Hulk as it is already capable of achieving over 30,000 EHP with the right skills and mods. Those who always complain about the Hulk's lack of tank happens to be those who always fit cargo rigs and cargo mods (these take away tank) then complain why a cruiser took out their Hulk.

Mackinaws have always been Ice mining platforms because of bonusesGǪ

it seems really wierd for a Mackinaw to be the "best choice" for mining ore in my playstyle, because CCP took away customizations options.

No. The problem is that CCP is forcing ore into a new bay that cannot be expanded. I am loosing operational space.

who told you that you can't move ore into your cargohold and thus having 8k m-¦ + 10k m-¦ (your numbers) as "operational space"?

You cannot be sure its unintentional, and neither can I... I saic, "what may be..." I am pointing out these problems that are not apparent on the surface, so that the devs can act on them as they wish. If this is some smart part of the plan, then fine. but don't pretend to read their minds.