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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
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Posted - 2012.07.28 14:20:00 -
[301] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:You don't know who the Blood Raiders are, do you?
Yes, I do. |
Pipa Porto
552
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:24:00 -
[302] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You don't know who the Blood Raiders are, do you? Yes, I do.
And yet you think they're part of the CFC.
Jorma Morkkis wrote:It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.
Link Where I said I'd Unsub. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Mallak Azaria
417
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:41:00 -
[303] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You don't know who the Blood Raiders are, do you? Yes, I do. And yet you think they're part of the CFC. Jorma Morkkis wrote:It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets. Link Where I said I'd Unsub.
He probably also thinks Rogue Drones are part of the DRF. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:47:00 -
[304] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You don't know who the Blood Raiders are, do you? Yes, I do. And yet you think they're part of the CFC.
Yes.
Mallak Azaria wrote:He probably also thinks Rogue Drones are part of the DRF.
Drunken Russian Federation? No, Rogue Drones are my friends. |
Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
339
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 17:36:00 -
[305] - Quote
get the shitposting e-peen contest out of the thread you wankers. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Pipa Porto
553
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Posted - 2012.07.28 17:49:00 -
[306] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You don't know who the Blood Raiders are, do you? Yes, I do. And yet you think they're part of the CFC. Yes.
This is one for the ages. We, for once, get a clear answer on something out of Jorma and it's this... EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
MunnyRabbit
Fleetworks Soldiers Of New Eve
2
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Posted - 2012.07.28 20:33:00 -
[307] - Quote
Jorma and pipa can yall take all of this chat in game? This is the second time in the past week yall have completely derailed a thread by this senseless arguing. |
Pipa Porto
555
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Posted - 2012.07.28 21:00:00 -
[308] - Quote
MunnyRabbit wrote:Jorma and pipa can yall take all of this chat in game? This is the second time in the past week yall have completely derailed a thread by this senseless arguing.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1711051#post1711051
I'm simply calling him out for making an entirely baseless personal attack on me. Do I not have the right to defend myself? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
32
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Posted - 2012.07.28 21:42:00 -
[309] - Quote
He didn't tell you not to defend yourself. He simply asked you two to take your argument / discussion / thread high jack to another forum or game chat. ;) |
Pipa Porto
555
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Posted - 2012.07.28 22:14:00 -
[310] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:He didn't tell you not to defend yourself. He simply asked you two to take your argument / discussion / thread high jack to another forum or game chat. ;)
So I shouldn't publicly defend myself from a Public attack? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
31
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Posted - 2012.07.28 23:22:00 -
[311] - Quote
Why don't all of you table your competition for the epic douchebaggery awards and let this thread continue on topic, no one cares about delve, blood raiders or what ever it is you to @ssclowns want to rabble about. |
Pipa Porto
556
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Posted - 2012.07.28 23:35:00 -
[312] - Quote
Fair enough.
With the SISI dump as it stands now,
The Hulk has the best yield, a flimsy tank, and requires hauling support to be efficient. The Mackinaw has a cavernous Ore bay, a fantastic tank,* and a better yield than the Skiff. The Skiff has a very large Ore bay, a tank that is no more effective than the Mack's,* and the worst yield.
*Once you have enough tank that it is significantly unprofitable to gank you (the Mack would cost ~60m to gank with 4 T2 catalysts with these stats, I think), extra tank doesn't really matter. Miners will not be faced with any significant threat of ganks in a Mack, so the Skiff is useless.
I think having 2/3 Exhumers being viable is an improvement. But the goal is 3/3 and that goal is in sight.
Cut the Mack's tank to that of a Hulk (Solo Boat != AFK boat) Cut the Skiff's Ore bay to that of a Hulks (otherwise nobody will use the Mack). Give the Skiff a WCS bonus to give it some semblance of survivability in low/null. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 04:13:00 -
[313] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Fair enough.
With the SISI dump as it stands now,
The Hulk has the best yield, a flimsy tank, and requires hauling support to be efficient. The Mackinaw has a cavernous Ore bay, a fantastic tank,* and a better yield than the Skiff. The Skiff has a very large Ore bay, a tank that is no more effective than the Mack's,* and the worst yield.
*Once you have enough tank that it is significantly unprofitable to gank you (the Mack would cost ~60m to gank with 4 T2 catalysts with these stats, I think), extra tank doesn't really matter. Miners will not be faced with any significant threat of ganks in a Mack, so the Skiff is useless.
I think having 2/3 Exhumers being viable is an improvement. But the goal is 3/3 and that goal is in sight.
Cut the Mack's tank to that of a Hulk (Solo Boat != AFK boat) Cut the Skiff's Ore bay to that of a Hulks (otherwise nobody will use the Mack). Give the Skiff a WCS bonus to give it some semblance of survivability in low/null (I mainly propose this because it doesn't really matter, but the miners, they likes the idea).
If you think Mack will render Skiff's bonus useless, how would you do AFK friendly mining ship? |
Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 05:02:00 -
[314] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Fair enough.
With the SISI dump as it stands now,
The Hulk has the best yield, a flimsy tank, and requires hauling support to be efficient. The Mackinaw has a cavernous Ore bay, a fantastic tank,* and a better yield than the Skiff. The Skiff has a very large Ore bay, a tank that is no more effective than the Mack's,* and the worst yield.
*Once you have enough tank that it is significantly unprofitable to gank you (the Mack would cost ~60m to gank with 4 T2 catalysts with these stats, I think), extra tank doesn't really matter. Miners will not be faced with any significant threat of ganks in a Mack, so the Skiff is useless.
I think having 2/3 Exhumers being viable is an improvement. But the goal is 3/3 and that goal is in sight.
Cut the Mack's tank to that of a Hulk (Solo Boat != AFK boat) Cut the Skiff's Ore bay to that of a Hulks (otherwise nobody will use the Mack). Give the Skiff a WCS bonus to give it some semblance of survivability in low/null (I mainly propose this because it doesn't really matter, but the miners, they likes the idea). If you think Mack will render Skiff's bonus useless, how would you do AFK friendly mining ship? If you think 8000 m3 is enough for solo miner... I do most of my mining solo and I don't really care about Hulk's "small" 8000 m3 cargohold, because I have gigantic jetcan (aka Orca) right next to my mining ship. In case you didn't know Orca has way more cargo space for ore than Mack will ever have. And it has way more EHP than all three exhumers combined.
1. I wouldn't do an AFK friendly mining ship. The Mack is a Solo mining ship, not an AFK one.
2. That's not Solo mining. There's a whole second ship with you. The Mack is designed for people who don't have an Alt/Friend with a Hauler of some kind. You are describing a Fleet situation, which is favors the Hulk for extra yield. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 05:09:00 -
[315] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:1. I wouldn't do an AFK friendly mining ship. The Mack is a Solo mining ship, not an AFK one.
2. That's not Solo mining. There's a whole second ship with you. The Mack is designed for people who don't have an Alt/Friend with a Hauler of some kind. You are describing a Fleet situation, which is favors the Hulk for extra yield.
It's is solo mining when it's just my main and alt.
Why would it be good if Mack only has 7500 ore bay when it's aimed for people who don't have hauler alt or fleet to do hauling?
And why is AFK mining so terrible idea? |
Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 06:25:00 -
[316] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. I wouldn't do an AFK friendly mining ship. The Mack is a Solo mining ship, not an AFK one.
2. That's not Solo mining. There's a whole second ship with you. The Mack is designed for people who don't have an Alt/Friend with a Hauler of some kind. You are describing a Fleet situation, which is favors the Hulk for extra yield. It's is solo mining when it's just my main and alt. Why would it be good if Mack only has 7500 ore bay when it's aimed for people who don't have hauler alt or fleet to do hauling? And why is AFK mining so terrible idea?
Where did I say the Mack should have its Ore bay reduced?
The Mack is designed for Mining unsupported by a Hauler. The Orca is Hauler support, whether you call it solo or otherwise.
AFK Mining without Risk is a terrible idea. At the moment, the SISI Mack has enough tank to do that, meaning that the Skiff has no role. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 06:31:00 -
[317] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. I wouldn't do an AFK friendly mining ship. The Mack is a Solo mining ship, not an AFK one.
2. That's not Solo mining. There's a whole second ship with you. The Mack is designed for people who don't have an Alt/Friend with a Hauler of some kind. You are describing a Fleet situation, which is favors the Hulk for extra yield. It's is solo mining when it's just my main and alt. Why would it be good if Mack only has 7500 ore bay when it's aimed for people who don't have hauler alt or fleet to do hauling? And why is AFK mining so terrible idea? Where did I say the Mack should have its Ore bay reduced? The Mack is designed for Mining unsupported by a Hauler. The Orca is Hauler support, whether you call it solo or otherwise. AFK Mining without Risk is a terrible idea. At the moment, the SISI Mack has enough tank to do that, meaning that the Skiff has no role.
AFK mining isn't against EULA. AFK mining != botting.
Are you afraid that AFK miner makes more isk/hr than you ganking them? I don't think so. Like there's no other ways for AFK isk making, like for example sentry Dominix/Ishtar/Gila... |
Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:04:00 -
[318] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. I wouldn't do an AFK friendly mining ship. The Mack is a Solo mining ship, not an AFK one.
2. That's not Solo mining. There's a whole second ship with you. The Mack is designed for people who don't have an Alt/Friend with a Hauler of some kind. You are describing a Fleet situation, which is favors the Hulk for extra yield. It's is solo mining when it's just my main and alt. Why would it be good if Mack only has 7500 ore bay when it's aimed for people who don't have hauler alt or fleet to do hauling? And why is AFK mining so terrible idea? Where did I say the Mack should have its Ore bay reduced? The Mack is designed for Mining unsupported by a Hauler. The Orca is Hauler support, whether you call it solo or otherwise. AFK Mining without Risk is a terrible idea. At the moment, the SISI Mack has enough tank to do that, meaning that the Skiff has no role. AFK mining isn't against EULA. AFK mining != botting. Are you afraid that AFK miner makes more isk/hr than you ganking them? I don't think so. Like there's no other ways for AFK isk making, like for example sentry Dominix/Ishtar/Gila...
Where did I say AFK mining is against the EULA? Quote and Link, please. Where did I say AFK mining is botting. Quote and Link, please.
Stop trying to put up straw men. You're just bad at it.
You should not be able to make Isk AFK without risk. The AFK Sentryboat in a PLEX ("AFK" Mission ships are nowhere near as AFK as Ice mining in the new Mack is) make less Isk/hr than a Mack, and will lose several hours of profit if he gets bumped away from his sentries. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
305
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:12:00 -
[319] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. I wouldn't do an AFK friendly mining ship. The Mack is a Solo mining ship, not an AFK one.
2. That's not Solo mining. There's a whole second ship with you. The Mack is designed for people who don't have an Alt/Friend with a Hauler of some kind. You are describing a Fleet situation, which is favors the Hulk for extra yield. It's is solo mining when it's just my main and alt. Why would it be good if Mack only has 7500 ore bay when it's aimed for people who don't have hauler alt or fleet to do hauling? And why is AFK mining so terrible idea? Where did I say the Mack should have its Ore bay reduced? The Mack is designed for Mining unsupported by a Hauler. The Orca is Hauler support, whether you call it solo or otherwise. AFK Mining without Risk is a terrible idea. At the moment, the SISI Mack has enough tank to do that, meaning that the Skiff has no role.
the skiff does have a role; it's for tanking rats in 0.0.
it just won't have a place in high sec; and why is that an issue? the hulk no longer seems to have a place outside fleets. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:26:00 -
[320] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:You should not be able to make Isk AFK without risk. The AFK Sentryboat in a PLEX ("AFK" Mission ships are nowhere near as AFK as Ice mining in the new Mack is) make less Isk/hr than a Mack, and will lose several hours of profit if he gets bumped away from his sentries.
And why is that a problem?
If I miss a cycle AFK mining ice I can only blame myself, I can't blame that Retriever pilot 80km from me. If the player is AFK then the player is AFK. How hard it is to understand something simple as that? Away from frigging keyboard. |
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Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:35:00 -
[321] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
the skiff does have a role; it's for tanking rats in 0.0.
it just won't have a place in high sec; and why is that an issue? the hulk no longer seems to have a place outside fleets.
The Mack and Hulk can do that fine.
Especially the Mack. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:38:00 -
[322] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:The Mack and Hulk can do that fine.
Especially the Mack.
Still not an issue.
80M/hr ganking miners in hisec is an issue. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
305
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:38:00 -
[323] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:
the skiff does have a role; it's for tanking rats in 0.0.
it just won't have a place in high sec; and why is that an issue? the hulk no longer seems to have a place outside fleets.
The Mack and Hulk can do that fine. Especially the Mack.
and by the time you've fit it to do that, the skiff will out mine it. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:41:00 -
[324] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You should not be able to make Isk AFK without risk. The AFK Sentryboat in a PLEX ("AFK" Mission ships are nowhere near as AFK as Ice mining in the new Mack is) make less Isk/hr than a Mack, and will lose several hours of profit if he gets bumped away from his sentries. And why is that a problem? If I miss a cycle AFK mining ice I can only blame myself, I can't blame that Retriever pilot 80km from me. If the player is AFK then the player is AFK. How hard it is to understand something simple as that? Away from frigging keyboard.
I'm talking about the Dead Drones costing him replacement cash. Not missing cycles.
Again, making ISK AFK without risk is bad game design. The Sentryboat makes a pittance compared to the AFK Mack (current SISI build) and runs the risk of losing money on the project if he gets bumped in the first few hours of the session.
Yes. I know what AFK means. "AFK" Mission ships allow you to alt-tab away for a little bit, but you have to keep an eye out for spawns. They don't allow you to actually leave your computer without risk.
The current SISI Mack build costs too much to gank, so it won't be ganked, so sitting it in an Ice belt and wandering away for 45m at a time is perfectly viable and safe. That's not good game design. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
305
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:45:00 -
[325] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You should not be able to make Isk AFK without risk. The AFK Sentryboat in a PLEX ("AFK" Mission ships are nowhere near as AFK as Ice mining in the new Mack is) make less Isk/hr than a Mack, and will lose several hours of profit if he gets bumped away from his sentries. And why is that a problem? If I miss a cycle AFK mining ice I can only blame myself, I can't blame that Retriever pilot 80km from me. If the player is AFK then the player is AFK. How hard it is to understand something simple as that? Away from frigging keyboard. I'm talking about the Dead Drones costing him replacement cash. Not missing cycles. Again, making ISK AFK without risk is bad game design. The Sentryboat makes a pittance compared to the AFK Mack (current SISI build) and runs the risk of losing money on the project if he gets bumped in the first few hours of the session. Yes. I know what AFK means. "AFK" Mission ships allow you to alt-tab away for a little bit, but you have to keep an eye out for spawns. They don't allow you to actually leave your computer without risk. The current SISI Mack build costs too much to gank, so it won't be ganked, so sitting it in an Ice belt and wandering away for 45m at a time is perfectly viable and safe. That's not good game design.
if some one's going to gank you; they're going to gank you. being at the keyboard doesn't really make much difference. your ship will either survive, or it won't. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:47:00 -
[326] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:
the skiff does have a role; it's for tanking rats in 0.0.
it just won't have a place in high sec; and why is that an issue? the hulk no longer seems to have a place outside fleets.
The Mack and Hulk can do that fine. Especially the Mack. and by the time you've fit it to do that, the skiff will out mine it.
The Current TQ Hulk can Tank 0.0 Rats with 2 MLUIIs. Is the new SISI Mackinaw less tankey with an active tank than the TQ Hulk? Serious question. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
305
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:50:00 -
[327] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:
the skiff does have a role; it's for tanking rats in 0.0.
it just won't have a place in high sec; and why is that an issue? the hulk no longer seems to have a place outside fleets.
The Mack and Hulk can do that fine. Especially the Mack. and by the time you've fit it to do that, the skiff will out mine it. The Current TQ Hulk can Tank 0.0 Rats with 2 MLUIIs. Is the new SISI Mackinaw less tankey with an active tank than the TQ Hulk? Serious question.
yeah but that requires deadspace modules etc; the skiff is there so you don't have to use a 1bn isk ship to mine in null. (yes exaggeration on the isk but you get the point)
*shrug* i haven't looked at the tank numbers on the new ships; i'm only interested in yield. in null i always had a drake in the station to deal with rats so i always went max yield. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:51:00 -
[328] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:I'm talking about the Dead Drones costing him replacement cash. Not missing cycles.
Again, making ISK AFK without risk is bad game design. The Sentryboat makes a pittance compared to the AFK Mack (current SISI build) and runs the risk of losing money on the project if he gets bumped in the first few hours of the session.
Yes. I know what AFK means. "AFK" Mission ships allow you to alt-tab away for a little bit, but you have to keep an eye out for spawns. They don't allow you to actually leave your computer without risk.
The current SISI Mack build costs too much to gank, so it won't be ganked, so sitting it in an Ice belt and wandering away for 45m at a time is perfectly viable and safe. That's not good game design.
You can't bumb AFK miners out of range of roids / ice? How much is that Mack pilot going to make when he is 40km from nearest roid/ice? |
Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:52:00 -
[329] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:if some one's going to gank you; they're going to gank you. being at the keyboard doesn't really make much difference. your ship will either survive, or it won't.
Wanna guess how many 40k EHP Hulks have gotten Suicide ganked in the last 6 months?
Ganking will wind down dramatically if it becomes automagically unprofitable (and, in fact, overly expensive).
If that wind down were due to miners adapting to changing dynamics, I'd say HTFU. With the current SISI stats, it will be because of CCP missing the ball on the numbers instead.
Oh, and being ATK gives you the option of being totally immune to ganks. That's a pretty big difference. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Pipa Porto
561
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:53:00 -
[330] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:
the skiff does have a role; it's for tanking rats in 0.0.
it just won't have a place in high sec; and why is that an issue? the hulk no longer seems to have a place outside fleets.
The Mack and Hulk can do that fine. Especially the Mack. and by the time you've fit it to do that, the skiff will out mine it. The Current TQ Hulk can Tank 0.0 Rats with 2 MLUIIs. Is the new SISI Mackinaw less tankey with an active tank than the TQ Hulk? Serious question. yeah but that requires deadspace modules etc; the skiff is there so you don't have to use a 1bn isk ship to mine in null. (yes exaggeration on the isk but you get the point) *shrug* i haven't looked at the tank numbers on the new ships; i'm only interested in yield. in null i always had a drake in the station to deal with rats so i always went max yield.
~80m in Modules on a 300m Hull? Oh, the Humanity. (You can even get by with all T2/meta if you're facing the right rats). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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