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Initial mining barge changes are on the test server

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Carlton Foster The Scope Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.07.24 01:00:00 - [61] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Sounds like there are some plans (at least high level ones) to make mining more of a mini game. which I'm all for. People who pay attention make more isk. Do you have a source on that?
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises 509	Posted - 2012.07.24 01:05:00 - [62] - Quote Carlton Foster wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: Sounds like there are some plans (at least high level ones) to make mining more of a mini game. which I'm all for. People who pay attention make more isk. Do you have a source on that? It was mentioned by Soundwave or Unifex (I don't /think/ it was Soniclover) on the last day of Alliance Tournament, in one of the in between bits. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.
Denidil Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 299	Posted - 2012.07.24 01:14:00 - [63] - Quote managed to fit 3 MLU2s on a mack :P requires an implant [Mackinaw, 3MLUs+buffer [needs implants]] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Medium 'Canyon' Shield Extender Residual Survey Scanner I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-604 EHP 35792 HP - shield resists 63.3 / 70.6 / 78 / 79.5 90% of the output of a 2 MLU hulk [i could be wrong if there are diminishing returns on MLUs] I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do.
Cyrus Deacon Fortress Research 3	Posted - 2012.07.24 01:47:00 - [64] - Quote Did anyone do some testing with ice mining? Wondering how hulk and mack compare without macks ice yield bonus
Pipa Porto 472	Posted - 2012.07.24 01:54:00 - [65] - Quote Cyrus Deacon wrote: Did anyone do some testing with ice mining? Wondering how hulk and mack compare without macks ice yield bonus Hulk's gonna be better. Probably in roughly the same proportion that it's better at mining Ore. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
Denidil Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 301	Posted - 2012.07.24 05:14:00 - [66] - Quote just a quick note - i'm going to be offline for a few days so you will be without my pyfawarrioring skills.. i hope you can survive without me :P I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 211	Posted - 2012.07.24 07:14:00 - [67] - Quote Droxlyn wrote: Dave stark wrote: i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's. I did some math on the yields for a Hulk and 2 cycles without MLU2s and no fleet support will take almost 8k m3 space. So, after your first cycle, you make a little room in your ore hold by moving some to your cargo hold and fill up at the end of the second cycle. That seems to be the logic for 7500 m3 instead of 5500 m3. The other two ships get about 11.74 and 5.47 cycles before their holds fill up without fleet and MLU support. (8 and 4 with) Drox mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Pipa Porto 474	Posted - 2012.07.24 07:31:00 - [68] - Quote Dave stark wrote: Droxlyn wrote: Dave stark wrote: i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's. I did some math on the yields for a Hulk and 2 cycles without MLU2s and no fleet support will take almost 8k m3 space. So, after your first cycle, you make a little room in your ore hold by moving some to your cargo hold and fill up at the end of the second cycle. That seems to be the logic for 7500 m3 instead of 5500 m3. The other two ships get about 11.74 and 5.47 cycles before their holds fill up without fleet and MLU support. (8 and 4 with) Drox mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size. I did some head math. Assuming 3 blocks per cycle and 5m per cycle (like a Hulk), a Mack can go AFK mining ice for like an Hour before having to go to station. 35k fits 11 cycles, or 55m of Ice mining. Assuming 4 blocks per cycle and 6m per cycle (like a Mack), it can go 8 Cycles, or 48m of mining. That's a hell of an AFK boat. My assumptions may be off. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
Victoria Sin Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 126	Posted - 2012.07.24 10:09:00 - [69] - Quote I'm not clear here. Does the Mack still have an ice bonus or not? At the moment I pull 2 blocks per laser, or 4 blocks per 196.97 seconds (with Orca boost and assuming a upgrades in low). Also, in the same vein, is the bonus on the skiff gone? Have we replaced these ore specific bonuses with rigs which can be fit on any barge/exhumer?
P3po Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens 12	Posted - 2012.07.24 10:14:00 - [70] - Quote Everyone is comparing tank in here .... but do you have some information on maxed yield fits/skills how do the ships do ? How much is hulk better than other ships ? I mean .... if i loose 10% of my mining yield, but i can store few cycles in my ships, i would probably switch from hulk to something else and just field more miners. Because you dont have to move the ore every 2 minutes, but every 15 minutes, and that is awesome. Oh, and screw your minigames ... try to mine with 6-7 hulks and play some minigames with your ship :D

Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises 509	Posted - 2012.07.24 10:23:00 - [71] - Quote P3po wrote: Everyone is comparing tank in here .... but do you have some information on maxed yield fits/skills how do the ships do ? How much is hulk better than other ships ? I mean .... if i loose 10% of my mining yield, but i can store few cycles in my ships, i would probably switch from hulk to something else and just field more miners. Because you dont have to move the ore every 2 minutes, but every 15 minutes, and that is awesome. Oh, and screw your minigames ... try to mine with 6-7 hulks and play some minigames with your ship :D From the first post. Denidil wrote: Ship - Strips * modifiers = effective # of strip mining modules Hulk - 3 strips * 1.15 (barge V) * 1.15 (exhumers V) = 3.9675 Mackinaw - 2 strips * 1.50 (role bonus) * 1.05 (exhumers V) = 3.15 Skiff - 1 strips * 3 (role bonus) * 1.05 = 3.15 Covetor - 3 strips * 1.2 (barge V) = 3.6 Retriever - 2 strips * 1.5 (role bonus) = 3 strips Procurer - 1 strips * 3 (role bonus) = 3 strips or % relative to a hulk Mackinaw: 79.4% Skiff: 79.4% Covetor: 90.7% Retriever: 75.6% Procurer: 75.6% hulk: 5 mack/skiff: 3.99 FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 212	Posted - 2012.07.24 10:24:00 - [72] - Quote never mind, i'm being silly Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Pipa Porto 475	Posted - 2012.07.24 10:54:00 - [73] - Quote P3po wrote: Everyone is comparing tank in here .... but do you have some information on maxed yield fits/skills how do the ships do ? How much is hulk better than other ships ? I mean .... if i loose 10% of my mining yield, but i can store few cycles in my ships, i would probably switch from hulk to something else and just field more miners. Because you dont have to move the ore every 2 minutes, but every 15 minutes, and that is awesome. The other barges with 2 MLUs will mine slightly faster than a Hulk with no MLUs. The Hulk's yield will be staying the same. You will be able to store a lot of cycles in your ore Hold. The Mack is something like 11 cycles and the Skiff something like 3. Victoria Sin wrote: I'm not clear here. Does the Mack still have an ice bonus or not? At the moment I pull 2 blocks per laser, or 4 blocks per 196.97 seconds (with Orca boost and assuming a upgrades in low). Also, in the same vein, is the bonus on the skiff gone? Have we replaced these ore specific bonuses with rigs which can be fit on any barge/exhumer? Yes, the Ice/Mercx bonuses appear to be being moved to Rigs. So you can have an Ice Rigged Hulk, and it'll have the best Ice yield, an Ice rigged Mack and it'll be able to sit AFK for like an hour collecting Ice before you have to touch it to move bricks, and so on. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
P3po Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens 13	Posted - 2012.07.24 11:06:00 - [74] - Quote Ok, sorry did not see it in the bottom of page where he compares the mining yeild with 2 MLU's .... so, 25% difference from Mack. And how will exhumers 5 do the difference between hulk and covetor ? It will be still 10% as mentioned in first post ? Thanks
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.24 11:14:00 - [75] - Quote I'm still a bit confused about all these numbers and I'd like to try the new flying pies soon, particularly the skiff _ but.... Quote: the hulk will mine ~25% more uhm.... sorry 25% more than what? It can mine 25% more than something else only if the hulk is fit for max yeld and the "something else" is fit for tank or just unfit at all. If I'm correct the hulk will have always almost 1 MLU more yeld towards the others fitted for max yeld, but the problem is that while the others will have a pretty huge tank using only their mids, the hulk will need a dcu to be "decent", so basically it sucks at mining in real space life nao :p I'll go the skiff way, even if it need a bit more managing, eventually the mack for some epic-boredome-ops in the ice fields somewhere. Ah, about the mack (sorry never used one) what does it mean that Quote: miningAmountMultiplier: 2.0 => 1.5 is it referring to ice mining or what?
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises 509	Posted - 2012.07.24 11:41:00 - [76] - Quote The Mack gets a base 50% bonus to mining now. (making 2 strips the equivalent of 3) Just like the retriever FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.
Nevryn Takis University of Caille Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:08:00 - [77] - Quote Dave stark wrote: Droxlyn wrote: Dave stark wrote: i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's. I did some math on the yields for a Hulk and 2 cycles without MLU2s and no fleet support will take almost 8k m3 space. So, after your first cycle, you make a little room in your ore hold by moving some to your cargo hold and fill up at the end of the second cycle. That seems to be the logic for 7500 m3 instead of 5500 m3. The other two ships get about 11.74 and 5.47 cycles before their holds fill up without fleet and MLU support. (8 and 4 with) Drox mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size. Quite agree .. and not my point .. As of now a fully tanked hulk with no MLUs ruuning T2 strips with T1 crystals and L4 exhumer pilot boosted by a mining foreman with a mining implant will pull 4589m3 per cycle of the strips. Without the implant it drops to 3889m3 or there abouts.. Thus a hulk with less than a 9000m3 base hold is just plain stupid especially given all the buffs to the rest of the barges/exhumers. As far as I can see from the figures the hulk will become redundant after the release as there will be no point in mining in anything other than a mack, unless you're mining ice (assuming the ice rig gives the same bonuses as previoulsy applied to the Mack) a cycle will occupy 6000m3 (6 blocks @ 1000m3 per block)
Pisov viet Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore 79	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:11:00 - [78] - Quote So instead of adressing the lack of reward or fun in mining, CCP rewards AFK-ers and botters by making them safer against gankers. Good move.
Pinstar Colton Sweet Asteroid Acres 190	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:22:00 - [79] - Quote Oh sweet nectar! Ice prices are going to tank now that any ship can become an ice miner. Very interesting that a Covetor mines more than the skiff and mack. In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:22:00 - [80] - Quote Quote: The Mack gets a base 50% bonus to mining now. (making 2 strips the equivalent of 3) Just like the retriever will it always have the 2x bonus on ice blocks mined in a cycle and the trick that if you stop your cycle at 51% you still get the 2 blocks? I don't get who's king of ice mining and which are the new rigs you're talking about.

Sandrestal University of Caille Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:36:00 - [81] - Quote One problem I see is can flippers will have a field day with solo miners in high sec. Using expanders you could get 17k m3 of cargo in a hulk. Now you have to be dumping ore into a jet can every cycle. Way to go ccp.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 212	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:43:00 - [82] - Quote Haffsol wrote: I'm still a bit confused about all these numbers and I'd like to try the new flying pies soon, particularly the skiff _ but.... Quote: the hulk will mine ~25% more uhm.... sorry 25% more than what? It can mine 25% more than something else only if the hulk is fit for max yeld and the "something else" is fit for tank or just unfit at all. If I'm correct the hulk will have always almost 1 MLU more yeld towards the others fitted for max yeld, but the problem is that while the others will have a pretty huge tank using only their mids, the hulk will need a dcu to be "decent", so basically it sucks at mining in real space life nao :p I'll go the skiff way, even if it need a bit more managing, eventually the mack for some epic-boredome-ops in the ice fields somewhere. Ah, about the mack (sorry never used one) what does it mean that Quote: miningAmountMultiplier: 2.0 => 1.5 is it referring to ice mining or what? 25% more than other exhumers, before mlus and rigs. as soon as you fit a single mlu on the hulk it will out mine every other ship (assuming the mack doesn't have the cpu for a third mlu then it means doing more maths) i used to ***** about the mackinaw's weak speciality but with the size of the ore bay being greater than what i assumed it's becoming more appealing. it even has more tank than the hulk and i think the skiff level tank on a barge will be a bit overkill. so unless you're really really intent on isk/hour the mackinaw with mlus will be somewhat "flavour of the month" for many people. more so with players who don't want to devote all their attention to the tedium that is mining, or those without 6 accounts and orca support. i'm currently skilling up an orca from the power of 2 offer, however after seeing the ore bay i think 2x mackinaws will be more efficient than 1hulk + 1orca. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 212	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:43:00 - [83] - Quote Sandrestal wrote: One problem I see is can flippers will have a field day with solo miners in high sec. Using expanders you could get 17k m3 of cargo in a hulk. Now you have to be dumping ore into a jet can every cycle. Way to go ccp. may i direct you to the mackinaw? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 213	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:45:00 - [84] - Quote Haffsol wrote: Quote: The Mack gets a base 50% bonus to mining now. (making 2 strips the equivalent of 3) Just like the retriever will it always have the 2x bonus on ice blocks mined in a cycle and the trick that if you stop your cycle at 51% you still get the 2 blocks? I don't get who's king of ice mining and which are the new rigs you're talking about. mackinaw is losing the 2x bonus on ice blocks, it's now a cycle time reduction in order to make the mackinaw's 2 strips equal the hulk's 3 strips. however, the hulk gets better yield bonuses per level of exhumer than the other barges do. hence why the hulk is the new king of ice mining in terms of blocks/hour. at exhumer 1 there's almost no reason to fly a hulk. at exhumer 5 there's lots of reasons. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 87	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:02:00 - [85] - Quote Dave stark wrote: mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size. I didn't say I liked it. And if you check the other thread, you'll see I'm arguing for 11k ore hold. I was just pointing out why it wasn't a 5500 m3 ore hold. Drox
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 213	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:03:00 - [86] - Quote Droxlyn wrote: Dave stark wrote: mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size. I didn't say I liked it. And if you check the other thread, you'll see I'm arguing for 11k ore hold. I was just pointing out why it wasn't a 5500 m3 ore hold. Drox i appreciate they want to keep the cargo space to 8k, which is fine. however i'd like to see them move more space away from the ore bay back to regular cargo. keep the ore bay big enough for 1 fully maxed out cycle then the rest of the space for regular cargo because as another person pointed out; there isn't enough room for a full compliment of crystals, especially with 3 strips. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 87	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:16:00 - [87] - Quote Dave stark wrote: i appreciate they want to keep the cargo space to 8k, which is fine. however i'd like to see them move more space away from the ore bay back to regular cargo. keep the ore bay big enough for 1 fully maxed out cycle then the rest of the space for regular cargo because as another person pointed out; there isn't enough room for a full compliment of crystals, especially with 3 strips. Ditto As it is, you can have 10+3 crystals. So, you can have crystals for 3 ores with a spare each and one more extra or crystals for 4 ores and one spare (or singleton ore). I wonder if they will remove my rigs for me, or if I'll have some extra room? I've used cargo rigs to get my cargo space over two cycles worth of yield, but the lows are used for MLU2s. BTW, does the Ore hold mean I can stash my mining barge in the SMB without emptying the ore out? I've managed to sneak extra PI stuff around by putting it in the PI bay of the Primae and carrying it around before. Drox
Sandrestal University of Caille Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:19:00 - [88] - Quote Dave stark wrote: Sandrestal wrote: One problem I see is can flippers will have a field day with solo miners in high sec. Using expanders you could get 17k m3 of cargo in a hulk. Now you have to be dumping ore into a jet can every cycle. Way to go ccp. may i direct you to the mackinaw? Yes I know. Just that the Hulk, being way more expensive, should be doing more and doing it better than any other mining vessel.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 214	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:21:00 - [89] - Quote Sandrestal wrote: Dave stark wrote: Sandrestal wrote: One problem I see is can flippers will have a field day with solo miners in high sec. Using expanders you could get 17k m3 of cargo in a hulk. Now you have to be dumping ore into a jet can every cycle. Way to go ccp. may i direct you to the mackinaw? Yes I know. Just that the Hulk, being way more expensive, should be doing more and doing it better than any other mining vessel. it's a mining ship, and it is mining more and better than any other ship. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 214	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:21:00 - [90] - Quote Droxlyn wrote: Dave stark wrote: i appreciate they want to keep the cargo space to 8k, which is fine. however i'd like to see them move more space away from the ore bay back to regular cargo. keep the ore bay big enough for 1 fully maxed out cycle then the rest of the space for regular cargo because as another person pointed out; there isn't enough room for a full compliment of crystals, especially with 3 strips. Ditto As it is, you can have 10+3 crystals. So, you can have crystals for 3 ores with a spare each and one more extra or crystals for 4 ores and one spare (or singleton ore). I wonder if they will remove my rigs for me, or if I'll have some extra room? I've used cargo rigs to get my cargo space over two cycles worth of yield, but the lows are used for MLU2s. BTW, does the Ore hold mean I can stash my mining barge in the SMB without emptying the ore out? I've managed to sneak extra PI stuff around by putting it in the PI bay of the Primae and carrying it around before. Drox hmm that's a good question. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.



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