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Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 20:08:00 -
[451] - Quote
This is the kind of hard hitting research report that is needed by The Scope. I think they are recruiting! |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4798
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 20:11:00 -
[452] - Quote
i love the notion that you'd pull concord straight to the gate to aggress the freighter before a DPS gank
it's like pubbies don't actually know anything about suicide ganking, shocking! please leave |

Auric Megastryke
HIFI INDUSTRIAL ROL.Citizens
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 21:42:00 -
[453] - Quote
Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.
An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.
Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.
If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.
Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities... |

Pipa Porto
992
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 22:15:00 -
[454] - Quote
Auric Megastryke wrote:Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.
An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.
Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.
If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.
Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities...
Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
853
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 23:38:00 -
[455] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Auric Megastryke wrote:Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.
An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.
Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.
If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.
Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities... Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock. I see no downside to this. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Pipa Porto
993
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 00:09:00 -
[456] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Auric Megastryke wrote:Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.
An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.
Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.
If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.
Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities... Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock. I see no downside to this.
I just realized. JF pilots would be exempt from the Instagib of undocking as they'd jump before losing their invulnerability. Just the buff JFs needed. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

Senshi Hawk
Occupational Hazzard Get Off My Lawn
50
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:08:00 -
[457] - Quote
A very small percentage of the freighters actively travelling in the EVE universe will get ganked. It's not correct to say that a freighter, upon jumping in, is 100% dead. There are many different factors and strategies that come into play.
Scenario 1 - High-value/high-volume that starts in, or ends in, a market hotspot - Life's hard, wear a helmet
-- Intersects with a ganking hotspot
Summary (assuming gankers are in system) A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo will die 100% of the time A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama with ECM bursting and webbing alt support will not always die, but his alts will die. A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo, but has strangers in PVP-fit counterganking ships on gate that shortens a ganking ship's volleys is a lucky son of a ***** and might not die. A ganking fleet that planned for overkill may not be affected by counterganking ships and you might still die.
Scenario 2 - Low-to-medium value or volume that starts in, or ends in, a market hotspot
-- Intersects with a ganking hotspot
Summary A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo will die if the value of his cargo exceeds the cost of the ganking fleet A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo against a ganking fleet that isnt running cargo scanners may die depending on the degree of boredness or generalized IDGAF mentality of the ganking fleet A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama with sufficient ECM bursting alts might not die, but his alts will die. A freighter pilot that goes through Uedama solo, but has strangers in PVP-fit counterganking ships on gate that shortens a ganking ship's volleys is a lucky son of a ***** and might not die. A ganking fleet that planned for overkill may not be affected by counterganking ships and you might still die.
Scenario 3 - Short-haul, the trash heap - Low risk, low reward
-- Does not intersect with a ganking hotspot -- Avoids major market hotspots
Summary A freighter pilot that does not go through ganking or major market hotspots might die if he's in the wrong place at the wrong time A freighter pilot that does not go through ganking or major market hotspots generally will not die unless he is a dumb ****.
Some random facts that a freighter pilot may want to consider
If you're going to cry, you should be crying about your cargo. If the circumstance dictates that the loss of a billion ISK ship is your greatest obstacle, you should not be flying it in the first place, or at the very least you should be sticking to the third scenario.
Learn politics and set your standings accordingly. It is not uncommon for nullsec gangs who are having trouble finding targets in 0.0 to come gank something as a contingiency plan. One nullsec dweller in highsec is common. Fifteen of them from the same alliance in ganking ships is something completely different. We're not here to take a leisurely stroll.
For the cost of your freighter you can subscribe two accounts. You have no excuse for being defenseless. Triplebox that ****.
Stop generalizing the term "Goons" - how many of your ganked ships were actually shot by one?
If you have 500k m3 worth of items for a value of 95mil, and 1300 m3 worth of items for a value of 1.6bil, haul the expensive stuff in a cloaky hauler! You're a stupid! Yes, I said that right, a stupid!
Despite everything I just said, even in an ideal circumstance, you're still gonna die sooner or later. Chalk it up as part of the job description and move on. |

Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
658
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:15:00 -
[458] - Quote
Senshi Hawk wrote:carefully thought out yet incorrect pubbie analysis
no EveO is a circus train that is for bafflingly unclear reasons also carrying tanks of chlorine gas,-ácrashing and exploding in the middle of a small midwestern town. -áCalling it a mere train wreck gives neither the entertainment nor the horror it offers its proper due. |

Senshi Hawk
Occupational Hazzard Get Off My Lawn
50
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:23:00 -
[459] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Senshi Hawk wrote:carefully thought out yet incorrect pubbie analysis no
Go on... |

Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
658
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:29:00 -
[460] - Quote
we convo every pilot and the ones that say "**** you!" die horribly
all we wanted was to be friends EveO is a circus train that is for bafflingly unclear reasons also carrying tanks of chlorine gas,-ácrashing and exploding in the middle of a small midwestern town. -áCalling it a mere train wreck gives neither the entertainment nor the horror it offers its proper due. |
|

Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
658
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:31:00 -
[461] - Quote
also I've run out of punctuation
how unfortunate EveO is a circus train that is for bafflingly unclear reasons also carrying tanks of chlorine gas,-ácrashing and exploding in the middle of a small midwestern town. -áCalling it a mere train wreck gives neither the entertainment nor the horror it offers its proper due. |

Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
132
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:50:00 -
[462] - Quote
People who deserve to lose things are losing them.
Carry on, nothing to see here. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1510
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 01:55:00 -
[463] - Quote
Hiyora Akachi wrote:People who deserve to lose things are losing them.
Carry on, nothing to see here. That was sort of the case earlier with certain types of exhumers.
CCP seems unlikely to just carry on when they can carry the miners/freighters/missioners/XXYY to safety. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Xolve
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
1113
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 04:50:00 -
[464] - Quote
WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:Athena Themis wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:BillyBanter wrote: Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one. Which is a bannable offence if they're recycling them. LOL....no. Sure it is, been considered an exploit since forever. Are you stupid or just new here?
Because ditching a 51-day refer-a-friend account is a big deal right?
You have to be pants on head ******** to actually want to grind sec status back from suicide ganking (unless that's your thing)- just make a 51 day alt, train into a thrasher/rupture/tornado, gank at will, when the account expires, or your sec status is too difficult to manage (because you're an idiot), make a new alt account.
Edit: I only read the 1st page, and just assumed the next 22 pages was just pubbies whining at each other, you know- like the rest of this forum. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 17:54:00 -
[465] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:we convo every pilot and the ones that say "**** you!" die horribly
all we wanted was to be friends
I need to buy a freighter now. |

Kheeria
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:11:00 -
[466] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:I've already proposed the solution to this. Make it impossible to attack anyone else from your own race. Make it impossible for other races to enter the Low-Sec or High-Sec space of any other race.
Then Goon Swarm or any other fuckwits will then have to grief in nullsec where they can be avoided.
Simples. How the **** would that work? How would FW take lowsec systems from other races if they can't enter the system? And does that mean that you can't enter CFC space since it's ours and you're not blue? How would we fight each other? Maybe you should go back to the drawing board on this... |

Kheeria
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:18:00 -
[467] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Samahiel Sotken wrote:Jesus Christ, You pubbies ***** about any thing that requires you to actually play the game. I outlined clearly in the last thread about this topic five strategies to avoid pirates. It's easy if you take a few moments to understand the mechanics of high sec and the razor thin margin of time, dps/alpha, and risk pirates are working on.
My experience as a high sec pirate, industrialist, and small gang PVPer leads me to believe that the EHP of freighters is perfectly in line with the risk-reward ratio necessary to foster a strong economy. Freighter ganking doesn't just benefit the pirates with an income source. It stimulates production to meet their new purchasing power, while increasing profits due to increased scarcity.
The problem with decreased risk is a vibrant economy requires large amounts of ISK moving freely among a large number of people. The sterile future your changes would lead to is a future of stagnant meaningless wealth automated in production and transfer; sitting idly in wallets and hangars unspent, under valued, and ultimately dead. My suggestion is better TBH. No it is not. |

Kheeria
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:22:00 -
[468] - Quote
PI Maker wrote:Robert De'Arneth wrote:BillyBanter wrote:The problem here is it's way too easy, and too cheap, to get hugely profitable kills.
It's risk vs reward, the risk isn't much, it's known to and accepted by the ganker long before weapon is fired. A simple solution would be to increase freighter HP by 300%. 100k EHP isn't very much for what is supposed to be EVE's largest freight vessel. No the simple solution would be if you feel you are going to be hit bring freinds. It is a freighter not a fighter. There are game mechanics to prevent this, it is called bring a fleet, or risk your ship, it's that whole risk vs reward thing.  please show me how to beat an alpha strike. you'll be the most famous man in eve Bring everyone in logi, have them rep you constantly as soon as you decloak. Do we really need to think for you as well? |

Kheeria
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:38:00 -
[469] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:Your suggestion is one of the stupidest things I've seen on the forums. That's just what we need, restricting people from what systems they can jump into  Here's a thought, perhaps don't fly through the system where people are getting ganked? You can't have read many stupid things on the forums then, because it's an awesome suggestion. I've never played an MMO other than Eve which allows you to: 1. Attack member of your own side 2. Grief so blatantly without developer intervention It needs to be fixed. Even if it only applied to High-Sec that would be better than nothing. Seriously, WoW seems a much better game for you, I suggest you leave Eve and go play it instead. Either that or don't fly what you can't afford to lose. |

Auric Megastryke
HIFI INDUSTRIAL ROL.Citizens
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:42:00 -
[470] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Auric Megastryke wrote:Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.
An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.
Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.
If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.
Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities... Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock.
Would be easy to implement a "you have to be outside the docking perimeter of a station" rule for this take effect. Solves that pretty easily. Stations are supposedly "managed traffic" areas (you have to ask permission to dock and undock) so we can assume that the station tractor beam takes care of collisions there. Even on a mass Jita undock without that fix, everybody is on exactly the same heading, and comes out with full shields - so the shield damage from being muscled aside by the freighter or battleship that just undocked wouldn't be that bad. |
|

Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:48:00 -
[471] - Quote
Kheeria wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:Your suggestion is one of the stupidest things I've seen on the forums. That's just what we need, restricting people from what systems they can jump into  Here's a thought, perhaps don't fly through the system where people are getting ganked? You can't have read many stupid things on the forums then, because it's an awesome suggestion. I've never played an MMO other than Eve which allows you to: 1. Attack member of your own side 2. Grief so blatantly without developer intervention It needs to be fixed. Even if it only applied to High-Sec that would be better than nothing. Seriously, WoW seems a much better game for you, I suggest you leave Eve and go play it instead. Either that or don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Dude this guy is trolling. Nobody is that blinded by hate for Goons and 'griefers' that they would screw up the entire game just to spite them. |

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:51:00 -
[472] - Quote
Auric Megastryke wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Auric Megastryke wrote:Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.
An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.
Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.
If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.
Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities... Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock. Would be easy to implement a "you have to be outside the docking perimeter of a station" rule for this take effect. Solves that pretty easily. Stations are supposedly "managed traffic" areas (you have to ask permission to dock and undock) so we can assume that the station tractor beam takes care of collisions there. Even on a mass Jita undock without that fix, everybody is on exactly the same heading, and comes out with full shields - so the shield damage from being muscled aside by the freighter or battleship that just undocked wouldn't be that bad.
Except dosen't everybody exit at full speed thus generating hugh impact since some people are faster to make the required input to turn theier ship for thier next warp?
And what about the troll, sitting in the biggest shield tank ever imagined with a group of reppers to fill him all the time, sitting right at the end of the Jita undock "safe zone" for **** and giggles? Yeah sounds like a good diea. |

No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1415
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 19:06:00 -
[473] - Quote
How did this thread reach 24 pages?  . |

Tarinara
Avenged Sevenfold Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 19:14:00 -
[474] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:How did this thread reach 24 pages?  Goonswarm threads = best threads?...
|

Pipa Porto
1000
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 22:03:00 -
[475] - Quote
Auric Megastryke wrote:Would be easy to implement a "you have to be outside the docking perimeter of a station" rule for this take effect. Solves that pretty easily. Stations are supposedly "managed traffic" areas (you have to ask permission to dock and undock) so we can assume that the station tractor beam takes care of collisions there. Even on a mass Jita undock without that fix, everybody is on exactly the same heading, and comes out with full shields - so the shield damage from being muscled aside by the freighter or battleship that just undocked wouldn't be that bad.
Why? If bumping causes damage, why would bumping near a station not cause damage? Do stations have some sort of "Physics Disabled Here" field?
Sure it would. You're starting out Inside the Freighter. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

SlayerOfArgus
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 03:09:00 -
[476] - Quote
While the bumping mechanic is flawed on some points, it's risk vs. reward people. Don't wanna get ganked? Don't undock.
And I don't think Goons are camping that much in all honesty. I sat in Uedama for almost an hour, watching so many freighters slow boat to and from gates.
Ways to avoid suicide ganking: Don't undock Have guardians + damnation to boost you and another to web you Avoid that system Scout the system Don't fly with a lot of loot Fly an Orca
So far you can do any of these options OR a combination of them and you are quite likely to avoid getting suicide ganked. |

Xolve
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
1113
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 03:57:00 -
[477] - Quote
SlayerOfArgus wrote::words:
Or hey- contract your potential 'belongings' to be 'moved' to someone else with 'collateral'
For other helpful tips and or future gaming advice: Click Me! Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1510
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 04:03:00 -
[478] - Quote
SlayerOfArgus wrote:Ways to avoid suicide ganking: Don't undock Highsec is supposed to be safe though, what happened? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 06:01:00 -
[479] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:SlayerOfArgus wrote:Ways to avoid suicide ganking: Don't undock Highsec is supposed to be safe though, what happened?
No matter how safe tehy make hgh sec, the universe can always spawn bigger idiots to amke thing so stupid it's still profitable to gank them.
Make the EHP of freighter 10x as big and people will carry 10x time as much stuff. 200 bill kill-mail for a single freighter. It would go to that point at some time. |

William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
98
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 07:59:00 -
[480] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:William Walker wrote:Also in Niarja. All is going according to plan. FA scrub thinks hes part of goons divine plan, you are a pawn at most.
A pawn is part of a plan too, no?
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