Anything is an easy target when you think about it, but that's not what the changes were about. Miners made themselves profitable targets through laziness & stupidity. They refused to do the simple things that made them unworthy or unprofitable to the point where CCP handed them everything they wanted on a silver platter.

Anything is an easy target when you think about it, but that's not what the changes were about. Miners made themselves profitable targets through laziness & stupidity. They refused to do the simple things that made them unworthy or unprofitable to the point where CCP handed them everything they wanted on a silver platter.

Names of those 0.9 and 1.0 systems with at least one ice field, now.

Ganking is challenge and requires effort. The fact that you aren't up to the challenge is irrelevant.

HTFU and adapt or stop playing.

HTFU and adapt or stop playing.

Update: CCP has once again shat on ganking in order to turn highsec into a risk-free carebear paradise.

Retribution is all about balancing ships and what not, so why not balance out ganking a bit while you're at it? Over the last eight years, ganking has been nerfed nearly into the ground, with only a few select groups of highly skilled, well funded individuals continuing to separate stupid highsec mongoloids from their precious shiny things. Why not buff immoral activity for a change? Reward smart people for taking basic precautions against dying and loss, like not traveling around with billions in their hold, not clicking on the contracts in Jita local, and not traveling the Rancer Pipe with hundreds of PLEX in the cargo bay.

Ganking keeps getting hit with more and more nerfs: pretty soon there won't be that "cold harsh universe" left that CCP keeps going on about in their promos. EVE belongs to the violent, the venal, and the brilliant. Buff ganking. Nerf dumb people.

Thats a fallacy that the forum warriors try hard to keep perpetuating. No matter how mining barges were tanked pre-patch they were always easy targets.

Where were you telling miners to ?

Because now that Macks are unprofitable to gank without any sacrifice for the tank, what adaptions do you propose would allow profitable ganking?

There again thats the fallacy. There was little to nothing a miner could do to avoid being ganked and it was always profitable, even moreso considering that you guys paid to have them ganked (nice supply and demand manipulation though, the gankers thought they were part of something rather than just being tools). The actions of your alliance probably had more to do with the buff to mining barges than anything. Yet now here we are, having to read whining threads by gankers who have insulted miners for their supposed whine threads. Hypocrisy at its best but nothing new.

If gankability is now limiting YOUR profits - just remember that TANKING was limiting THEIRS.

And if EVERY single miner HAD suddenly followed your advice THEN AND NOW, they would STILL be gankable and it would STILL be UNPROFITABLE - THEN AND NOW.

said a bunch of stuff that brought tears of joy to my eyes and the following:

It's the bit you NON-MINERS haven't got yet. For many it has nothing to do with stupidity but an acceptance of the inevitable as it was "back then". Tanking was irrelevant for MOST situations, period.

Total Rubbish.
Proof? Hulkaggedon V Killboard.

What do you see? Pages and pages of untanked Exhumers.

If tanked Exhumers were 'easy targets' to kill, you would see tons of DCII, MSEII equipped exhumers there. Guess what, you don't.

Care to retract your bullshit now?

The entire argument that you ganked BECAUSE they didn't tank is void.

If they HAD tanked >>>> GANKING WOULD HAVE BEEN UNPROFITABLE.
They didn't - CCP changed it all up >>>> GANKING IS STILL UNPROFITABLE.

All the whining is because CCP took away THE LAZY GANKER way of killing THE LAZY MINER.

If LAZY MINER wasn't LAZY, LAZY GANKER couldn't be LAZY either....

You CAN still gank them.

Just stop being so damn LAZY about it.

If I want a brick armour tank, I have to sacrifice speed, agility & dps.
If I want heavy dps, I have to sacrifice speed, agility & tank.
If I want a fast nano ship, I have to sacrifice tank & dps.
If I want to mine in complete safety, all I have to do is fill my low slots with mining yield mods, warp to ice belt then go afk for an hour. There is no sacrifice there which happens to be one of the core principals of EVE.

He's a MINER ya knob.

If I was a SOLDIER I would EXPECT to wear a helmet and carry a gun because I might get killed.
If I was a POLICEMAN I would EXPECT to wear a vest and carry a gun because I might get killed.
If I was SAILOR I would EXPECT to wear a lifejacket and an EPIRB because I might drown.

If I was a MINER, I'd try wearing a bloody HARDHAT.

And even if I WAS given a HARDHAT, a life jacket, a vest, an EPIRB and 3 guns, I'm STILL dead if the mine blows up.

So I go in with my biggest tractor and jackhammer and I mine like crazy and GTFO as fast as possible because THAT'S WHAT MINERS DO.

They're MINERS and the EXPECTATION of risk isn't there. You're applying a "gaming mechanic" in an UNREALISTIC scenario.

As a MINER my greatest risk SHOULD be having an asteroid BLOW UP IN MY FACE. Except they don't.

Now that WOULD make a miner TANK because it would be EXPECTED - IN HIS LINE OF WORK.

MINING ITSELF must be dangerous if you want behavourial change - getting ganked by some sad and lonely fatboy is just well, odd.

1) pesky annoying destro gank attempts were exactly that and my rat tank held.
2) serious, "you're gonna die" ganks were untankable anyway so it was moot to tank.

It's the bit you NON-MINERS haven't got yet. For many it has nothing to do with stupidity but an acceptance of the inevitable as it was "back then". Tanking was irrelevant for MOST situations, period. It was risk-managment versus efficiency.

The ONLY decent tank worth bothering with was faction fit and that MADE me a target. Think about it.

If gankability is now limiting YOUR profits - just remember that TANKING was limiting THEIRS.

And if EVERY single miner HAD suddenly followed your advice THEN AND NOW, they would STILL be gankable and it would STILL be UNPROFITABLE - THEN AND NOW.

The entire argument that you ganked BECAUSE they didn't tank is void.

He's a MINER ya knob.

If I was a SOLDIER I would EXPECT to wear a helmet and carry a gun because I might get killed.
If I was a POLICEMAN I would EXPECT to wear a vest and carry a gun because I might get killed.
If I was SAILOR I would EXPECT to wear a lifejacket and an EPIRB because I might drown.

If I was a MINER, I'd try wearing a bloody HARDHAT.

And even if I WAS given a HARDHAT, a life jacket, a vest, an EPIRB and 3 guns, I'm STILL dead if the mine blows up.

So I go in with my biggest tractor and jackhammer and I mine like crazy and GTFO as fast as possible because THAT'S WHAT MINERS DO.

They're MINERS and the EXPECTATION of risk isn't there. You're applying a "gaming mechanic" in an UNREALISTIC scenario.

As a MINER my greatest risk SHOULD be having an asteroid BLOW UP IN MY FACE. Except they don't.

Now that WOULD make a miner TANK because it would be EXPECTED - IN HIS LINE OF WORK.

MINING ITSELF must be dangerous if you want behavourial change - getting ganked by some sad and lonely fatboy is just well, odd.

EDIT 2: And yes, I ganked because they didn't tank. Because I generally didn't have enough firepower to crack a tanked Exhumer. 'Lazy' never really factored into it. Either they failed to tank and I was capable of killing them, or they tanked and I could not kill them. As it was, I was triple boxing, and had a lot of practice. 3 accounts, max skilled chars - Hardly sounds 'lazy'.

And you could have worn a Hardhat pre-buff. That's called tanking your ship.

You could have gone in with a max yield ship and stayed perfectly ungankable, but you'd have had to look at your overview to do so. (Seriously, "look at the overview" is the amount of effort miners were entirely unwilling to expend to protect their investment).

Instead, CCP performed surgery to replace your skull with a steel one (that happens to hold twice as much ore).... to stretch the metaphor a bit.

pfftt....

I quad-boxed 3 Hulks and an Orca and worked harder for longer than you EVER would on a gank. (and I STILL did not tank - no point).

CCP GAVE you guys free ganks and AWESOME TOOLS to do it. They took it away because you got lazy, greedy and stupid about it.

Ya just dont get it do you? THE MAN gotta take it away because somebody has to pay the Ferryman and if they're all gone - who will?

CCP GAVE you guys free ganks and AWESOME TOOLS to do it. They took it away because you got lazy, greedy and stupid about it.

And at the same time they gave us those tools, they nerfed insurance making it more expensive to gank than ever. So it still ultimately comes down to miners making themselves profitable targets.

No ****? You think a ship built specifically just to be efficient a mining should be just as resilient as a ship built specifically for fighting other ship?

Where exactly does it become "unprofitable"..

Amazingly, i've never gotten ganked (yet.. im sure its just a matter of time). I still use my Hulk's that i've had for years, and have never piloted a Mack (or mined Ice for that matter).

My Hulk's have 15k'ish EHP, with shield resists all in the 60+ range, which most certainly isnt "safe" by any means (i would imagine). If it would be "profitable" to kill on the other hand, i have no clue. Apart from the strips themselves, there is nothing expensive in the fit (other than the salvage of the ship itself i guess)..

I am geniunely curious as the people in this thread seems to have all the answers