Lol , yeah takes a LONG time to train an alt for tornado/talos for sure.Instead of ganking retrievers they're ganking freighters now ... yup ganking need s abuff

No, it really shouldn't, unless you mean that highsec should be removed from the game.

It has the most base EHP of any T2 Cruiser (besides the Skiff). That's not "Standard," that's "Best in Class."

It can fit a bigger tank (with 2 MLUs) than many T2 Cruiser's standard Fittings. That's also not "Standard."

with 2 MLUs be fit to be absolutely unprofitable to gank

Yeah or that.

But i imagine you'd simply kill off all the players not interested in PvP. Which so happens to be the majority.

Would be alot of fun though!

And i also mentioned that mack cannot fit large extenders (43 vs 1000-15000 PG) So it is logical that it has most base EHP. Also comparing 13k vs 14k EHP is not very wise



Try to play with EFT more before you post something stupid like this.

So as those shiny pirate ships with ordinary T2 fit, of freighters with sub 1B goods in their cargohold. Again, stop crying about easy targets and try to pick up targets with expensive fit, not just random miner.

And above all try to read my posts, because all i wrote here, i already mentioned in posts before.

Those ships give up something for that safety. What does the Mackinaw give up for that safety compared to the Skiff (the one designed to be safe without active measures)?

If miners want to be safe without active measures, why shouldn't they have to use the Skiff (the mining ship designed to tank)?

Because CCP clearly meant the skiff to be the 'non-highsec" tanky exhumer. If you're going to talk about what they were "designed" to do, then talk about their designs in the way in which those designs were...designed.

You're confusing the issue. The skiff is basically useless. This isn't because the mack is too tanky. This is because high-sec mining as a whole needs to be nerfed, comparative to lowsec/nullsec mining. Simply claiming that the skiff's role has been stolen by the mack being ' too tanky' is a bizarre misinterpretation of what CCP intended, that you're apparently trying to make become true simply by repeating it 50,000 times. It's not working.

The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank

You obviously weren't here for all the screaming about the new BCs and the destroyer buffs.

SP != Skill

What significant risk are HS miners exposed to now?

You mean the screaming that conveniently ignored the fact that Crucible made ganking more expensive?

OW yeah takes loads of skills to suicide gank your right ... i'd grade it a tad above mining. And as to the risk that high sec miners have or people in high sec in general ... in my view the carebears mostly are the gankers not the miners/pve types.

Scared to go into low-sec or null ?

Can't have actuall losses when pvp+¡ng noooo , no losses and no risks should be had.Think you should get labeled the ''grand admiral carebear''

Retribution is all about balancing ships and what not, so why not balance out ganking a bit while you're at it? Over the last eight years, ganking has been nerfed nearly into the ground, with only a few select groups of highly skilled, well funded individuals continuing to separate stupid highsec mongoloids from their precious shiny things. Why not buff immoral activity for a change? Reward smart people for taking basic precautions against dying and loss, like not traveling around with billions in their hold, not clicking on the contracts in Jita local, and not traveling the Rancer Pipe with hundreds of PLEX in the cargo bay.

Ganking keeps getting hit with more and more nerfs: pretty soon there won't be that "cold harsh universe" left that CCP keeps going on about in their promos. EVE belongs to the violent, the venal, and the brilliant. Buff ganking. Nerf dumb people.

So what significant risk do miners take when mining*? You didn't actually answer the question.
.

*FYI, without profitable ganking, there is no industrial scale ganking, and therefor no significant risk from ganking.

Mack is not tanky ship. It has standard HP as any other ship in his class in this game now. ( I know, i know... you miss cheap catalyst killmails).

So what significant risk do miners take when mining*? You didn't actually answer the question.

*FYI, without profitable ganking, there is no industrial scale ganking, and therefor no significant risk from ganking.



That is, in fact, what the miners cried about. Losing their ship in PvP.

Loosing their PVE ship in PVP yes i can see why they would moan and btw they are running as much risk as before as they still ARE gankable but boohooo that takes effort and isk.

Its not a question of a bit more risk, its that its impossible to make any profit.

You serious?You actually seriously moaning about ganking not being profitable?What has eve come to , used to be days you lost 3 months worth in one go with pvp and smiled about it.Ganks where about ******* others day and you didn't care what it costed.

You can tell eve is dead when even ''bad boys'' complain about risk and iskloss.


You're goonfriends are ganking freighters and looking at the drops it is profitable right?


Yaawwwn

Its not a question of a bit more risk, its that its impossible to make any profit.

Bring back the profitable as long as you also bring in a direct way of teaching miners how to fit prepare for such things. The EvE board is not the good palce to teach this. It should be in the game. Then the player can ignore the info but everybody gets warned about the risk. I am pretty sure many people learn of the risk associated with mining by seeing the ship go boom. Of course right now it happens less but it was still like that before the barge patch. I am all for risk of ganking for miners. It's allright. But please make all the required info available in game to protech from such intended risk.

For example change the basic mining training to give a missing where the miner will get blow-up no matter what and then a second one where the agent give him one of the basic skill book to train and tell him to put "tank module X" so when he do the same action, his ship live through the rat dps till concord or whatever kill the rat. It's super basic but after that, people ahve no reason to not know **** can happen and mining is no safe heaven.

The idiots will still run tankless. Those will be your gank target and they will ahve no excuse beside thier own stupidity. The one who did learn will be the tanked miner. Not profitable to gank because of their fit.

If CCP was to put in a change like that, I would gladly support it. If they only change the ship EHP, they only change one problem (unprofitable to gank miner even with terribad fit) into (clueless miner who does not even know what's waiting for him).

You cant force people to tank their ships, I spent 8 months trying.

The tutorial tells you to tank your ships, the rats force you to tank your ship early on, the forums are awash with help, the help channels and corp channels are there, local is there for asking other miners, the guy exploding near you is a biut of a giveaway, you exploding is a massive hint. Mission bears spend the time to look up fits on battleclinic and asking questions so it cant be all that hard for miners to adapt. Its just that they chose not to and go out of their way to ignore any help given.

Thats not to say all miners are as useless. A great number did adapt and they took advantage of higher prices and mining bots getting all but wiped out. Hell there are some miners who enjoyed the challange and had fun mining.

As for those freighters we are now killing, Yes, its all done for profit. Miners were never any different.

Yes but difference between ganking freighters and ganking miners was that You have to pick your target (in freighter case). You have to scan them and gank only fools with multi billion cargo.

But miners case..... you could choose random miner and gank him.... he was profitable in every scenario.

So whad does this new patch brings? Just balance. Ganking miners are still profitable. You just have to search and scan for good one (miners wit Aoede MLU for example).

stuff.

Yes but difference between ganking freighters and ganking miners was that You have to pick your target (in freighter case). You have to scan them and gank only fools with multi billion cargo.

But in miners case..... you could choose random miner and gank him.... he was profitable in every scenario.

So whad does this new patch brings? Just balance. Ganking miners are still profitable. You just have to search and scan for good one (miners wit Aoede MLU for example).

Hence why they are the new king of mining and why ice prices have nose dived.

So you Goons don't like cheap Catalysts and cheap jump/POS fuel...

A bit weird when we all know you guys own most POSes in nullsec and have biggest capital/super fleets.

Cheap stuff means less profit.

You guys also own most of the Tech moons. Force barge/exhumer prices up and you get your profits.