Sure they can... a player that built up his skills and some ISK while mining in a frig / cruiser, he could get into an exhumer in what, a month, a month and a half ?

Thats how i started myself (granted, this was in 2006), there was no Hulk at the time, so the Covetor was what i was aiming at (i skilled my way up to a cruiser and used that to gather some ISK while i skilled up).

How long does it take to get into a Retriever these days, a week ?

A retriever is a mining barge. We're talking about Exhumers which take quite a bit longer to skill in to.

You're just as bad as the miners that complain about get ganked when they can fit a tank. Adapt, dual box, make some friends, jesus.

Which, if you read my entire post, you'd have noticed that i said....exactly that....

Except that relatively new players don't pilot Exhumers.

So you PvP in a ship that can tank up to and including a doomsday and you are belly aching because they gave the Hulk some EHP.

Gotcha

Aside from profitable suicide ganks, what significant risk do miners face?

Sure they can, if that is the career of choice that they embark on. It doesnt take THAT long to get into one (i've not tried to calculate it, but i imagine its less than 2 months total training time)... and while skilling up, they'll be able to amass the ISK needed to buy it.

Why it has to be profitable?

So, you don't do it for reasons you say you do it but you do it only for profit.

I have always said we did it for profit. It just happens to also result in better mineral and ice prices for miners as well as great at removing bots. It is truely staggering how you can manage to be wrong 100% of the time.

Why you don't just use your ratting bo... alts to finance elite pvp?

Why you don't just use your ratting bo... alts to finance elite pvp?

By that point they are no longer a new player.

Im sure something can be dug up if one goes far enough back, people used to brag about it. Generally speaking though, the only ones who could "prove" anything is CCP, they are the ones sitting on all our accounts.

In all honesty, thats a rather idiotic statement to make.

What if the player is relatively new, dont really have many/any skills unrelated to mining (that he didnt start with), and he does not want to go into low sec or 0.0 (where chances are far greater he'll lose another ship rather than actually making any money) ? And he certainly neither has the skills nor money for a HAC, BC, BS, or what have you.

If you ask me, your "solution" is just about the dumbest thing the barge user could have possibly done. But hey, thats just my opinon :)

Because the cost would be impossible to manage and we are not interested in losing vast sums of isk for no gain.

At roughly 2 months old, you are not exactly a wily veteran either....

There are exceptions to that one, but generally speaking, they still count as "new" in my book.

At roughly 2 months old, you are not exactly a wily veteran either....

There are exceptions to that one, but generally speaking, they still count as "new" in my book.

What if someone has been playing the game for 5 years, and are still rocking the exhumer. What then?

Why it has to be profitable?

So, you don't do it for reasons you say you do it but you do it only for profit.

If you get 60M/hr from every ratting bo... alt you have then that's easily enough to bring that risk to hisec.

Isk/hr from one ratting bo... alt: 60M/hr
60M = four T2 fit Catalysts?

Isk/hr from one ratting bo... alt: 60M/hr
60M = four T2 fit Catalysts?

What in the world does ratting have to do with anything?

So, since you didn't answer the question, what significant risk do miners face, aside from profit based Suicide Ganks?

Yes, I am going to go ratting all the time to fund a gank campain that will lose me all my isk on miners while we are fighting a war

Since you are running many ratting bo... alts then why not use risk free isk to get enough money for elite pvp?

War? Lol. Nobody will ever attack Goon space (70% of nullsec).

War? Lol. Nobody will ever attack Goon space (70% of nullsec).

Where it is stated that suicide ganking exhumers should be profitable? Quote and link. Liar.

And you don't gank his 100k EHP Skiff?

Well, you are doing it wrong.

You keep saying we're all using ratting bots. Do you have proof, or are you just spreading rumors? Where's my ratting bot? Who? How much has it made the last 2.5 years?

As if he'd be using the skiff, and put tanking mods on it. He'll be using the mackinaw and it'll be yield fit.

Do you want to try your theory?

I went jetcan hunting last night. Not a single skiff in all of Lonetrek or the Forge and very few hulks. Its at lest 90% Macks out there.

You don't want CCP to ban mining bots so you can farm risk free isk in hisec. That means you support botting.

Do you want to try your theory?

Since you are running many ratting bo... alts then why not use risk free isk to get enough money for elite pvp?

Where it is stated that suicide ganking exhumers should be profitable? Quote and link. Liar.

War? Lol. Nobody will ever attack Goon space (70% of nullsec).