Oh, but wait! I wrote another thread about that topic.

This is what finally high sec is becoming to gankers. A real cold harsh universe instead of a brainless-no-consequence activity

Your last sentence is really well said, though I'm not sure it's a problem, per-se.

Relaxing while playing Eve seems a lot to me like trying to take a cat nap while playing Gran Turismo 5. Sure, you can set the computer up to run your races for you, but then you're not playing a game, you're watching the result of a computer playing a game.

CCP clearly says they want players attentive and at their keyboards. The mining buff seems to send the opposite message. The only way I can see for CCP to remain consistent in this message is to buff ganking (at least somewhat) to re-introduce the concept of risk to miners.

A bonus effect would be an improvement in ore and mineral prices for those miners who continue to mine successfully after such a ganking buff.

We could only know if it's a problem if we ahd the stats on how many people try EvE and quit insetad of continuing playing the game. If most people quit, then something in the game reduce the growth and at some point, thats less money for CCP. The current player can be happy but it does not mean thast teh final target of CCP.

As for mining, they could always amke roinds contain at most 1 cycle of ore. You would need to be at the keyboard to target new roids all the time. They could also lets say require scanning small but numerous belts with the default ship scanner (using probe would require an additionnal high slot and probing skill which would be a major hassle for beginner) containing just a few rocks then you have to move again. This force the player to be at the keyboard. Anyone who would want to mine AFK would first need to scan a grav site to have sufficient rocks to semi-afk. A change to ice would be required too but nothing is impossible. You don't really need to put miners in danger of being ganked to make them at the keyboard.

Ganking is just not automatically the solution to everything. Hulkageddon didn't make people fit ship with a ebtter tank even if some people were ganking with losses because GSF was feeding them isk for every 10 kills or something. They were making thier money back on the quantity but barge/exhumer were killed in droves and yet people were not tanking all that much more by the end just before the barge changes.

Unless you blow someone up faster than he can mine himself, killing his ship only really slow him down.

No, we get it. Your panties are in a bunch because it's not as easy as it was before to destroy unarmed ships. We get it. You're 'leet. Almost as 'leet as the idiot that bumps ships in belts in the Citadel. Now HE is elite.

Grow a pair.

Except that it requires brains and has consequences.

You just don't like the consequences is all, so you dismiss them. Let's take a look:

1. Ship + Module Loss w/o Insurance Payout (we get it for any other activity)
2. GCC = 15 minute CONCORD-enforced time-out
3. Standings Loss if the pilot was NPC corp
4. Security Status Loss

Now let's look at the consequences of everybody mining in a Mackinaw risk-free:

1. Ice and ore prices continue to fall

OK next argument?

its that CCP have made it impossible to to turn a profit.

You don't have to deal with:

Neutrals passing by there and joining the party finishing for you in a fresh pod and not a single kill except yours.
50 men or whatever number hot drop
Not being able to dock in entire regions
Reds in local expecting you to show up and blow yer face (yep Concord protects you very well against those)

And I'll stop here, there are so many more but these are enough to show how little consequence high sec ganking has.

Except that it requires brains and has consequences.

You just don't like the consequences is all, so you dismiss them. Let's take a look:

1. Ship + Module Loss w/o Insurance Payout (we get it for any other activity)
2. GCC = 15 minute CONCORD-enforced time-out
3. Standings Loss if the pilot was NPC corp
4. Security Status Loss

Now let's look at the consequences of everybody mining in a Mackinaw risk-free:

1. Ice and ore prices continue to fall

OK next argument?

[edit: it came already!]



Oh really? How leet must one be to sit in a 35k EHP mining ship and AFK mine all day without risk of player-induced death (or any other death for that matter)?

Because I think that must require a SERIOUS pair.

[/edit]

Care Bears should be able to mission away to their little hearts are content in completely safety, free from the actions of dicks that just want to f*ck them over.

1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose (where have I heard that before)
2. Minor and temporary
3. see 2
4. see 3

Just requires you know, effort.


Can't beat that argument. The charitable work for the betterment of the miner by people who are not miners is heartening and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Pfft.. Said it before and I'll say it again.

1) If you're a miner, HTFU, tank/dont tank'whatever. Deal with it.
2) If you're a ganker. Stop BS about balance/economics whatever to justify it. Just kill it.

But consider these points:-

If killing a MINING DRILL (that's what it is) was meant to be PROFITABLE then GAME BALANCE was wrong to begin with. (Perhaps CCP saw the absurdity in that single point and it all has nothing to being "fair".)

Economic POV. Ganking a mining vessel should ONLY BE PROFITABLE if you are a buyer/seller of ore. The vessel itself should always be no more than a busted tool after a gank.

Irony POV. When MinerMan told to fit tank he (used to?) put faction stuff on because it was only proper way to do it, and it was the TANK that made him profitable.

HTFU POV. The ganker was given a class of vessel that mounts large and costs nothing. What more they need? Get a group of friends together, you know, Eve is a GROUP game, and make the kill.

COMMONSENSE POV. If it DOESN'T make a profit - duh, do something else.


Isn't that what EVERYONE ELSE is told 'round here or does it ONLY apply to highseccers/carebears and noobs?

CCP already stated ganking was never intended to be profitable. However, high sec freighters ganking shows it is and this is players fault.

So can you please say again ganking is not profitable?

Everyone else in Eve besides miners has a legitimate risk intervening between them and profit.

The recent buff removed the risk to mining.

The consequences are already visible in the market.

Everyone else has risk. What does a miner risk now, after the buff?

Maybe he risks flying the wrong ship?

Since when has risk been removed? Don't confuse profitability of ganking with the ability to gank. Two very different aspects.

Clearly you don't get it. Its not that CCP has made it harder, its that CCP have made it impossible to to turn a profit. They have also rendered the Skiff pointless because the Mack is unprofitable to gank with nothing fitted which means the Mack is the king of miners. The whole point of the barge buff was to end the one barge rules them all situation.

Given that that ship's owner chose not to fit any sort of tank in order to make that possible, sure it is.


No they're not. People who take no precautions are safe and people who take precautions are not safer.

They take precautions and are no better off for it than the people who take no precautions.



Where does CCP say "except HS" in the tagline?



Not so much. They used to be, but then CCP decided to put them in swaddling clothes.

It's not supposed to be profitable at the base level. If a player chooses to fill their cargohold full of yummy-yums, that's their fault & CCP shouldn't cater to such stupidity.

Cold.

Harsh.

Universe.

HTFU much?

Why dont you try metaphoring with this.

Also, my 10 year old trolls better then you.

Everyone else in Eve besides miners has a legitimate risk intervening between them and profit.

The recent buff removed the risk to mining.

The consequences are already visible in the market.

Everyone else has risk. What does a miner risk now, after the buff?

Maybe he risks flying the wrong ship?

MinerMan is ALWAYS at risk. YOU CAN still gank him. YOU have decided that YOUR risk is no longer viable. MinerMan simply saw the cross being carried by someone else instead of them.

I will concede that forum whining on ganking might have tipped the scales on this topic. If that's so, maybe we're all missing ONE KEY POINT.

CCP had the numbers. Numbers may have said fix this.

Now ask yourself, how many lost subs CCP have to wear if all the gankers ragequit? Care to guess?

Maybe we need to be asking whether there is any correlation between rising subs and rising logins SINCE the "fix". I dunno.

Like I said, CCP have the numbers.

Look, MINERMAN could have MINED in safety pre-buff by MINING aligned or with a tank or in low or in null or with friends.

...are probably going to have a continued deflationary effect on the prices for low-end materials and ice products available in high-sec.

Not going to go down this road.

For point friend, when you tell MinerMan that, you cut into HIS profits and he had to swallow the bad-pill while you had a risk-free, PROFITABLE venture.

I can understand your angst, but really, we're just seeing exact same from the OTHER SIDE of the coin.


Darth

The prices have been MUCH LESS than (half of current) many times and for very prolonged periods. Eve still Eve.

You really want to keep prices up - maybe you need to increase DEMAND which is what RL economists suggest you do to increase prices (when you don't have the monopoly).

So go blow stuff up.

Highsec should be for those not interested in PvP.

No, it really shouldn't, unless you mean that highsec should be removed from the game.

If said ship is carrying stuff worth more than you can tank then yes.

Let's say I use two A-Type EANMs to tank my Damnation. Of course I will have full HG Slave set plugged in but you probably guessed that already.

a-type EANMs cost 500x as much as T2 EANMs and they're great at making you a worthwhile gank target