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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Suitonia
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
122
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Posted - 2012.10.24 15:18:00 -
[721] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Reppyk wrote:Gypsio III wrote:The mechanic of Nos is perfect That's why nobody (but some bears on high spare slots) are using them. Well, come up with a better mechanic then - and make sure that this mechanic doesn't intrude into Neuts' role. I don't think you can do this, so we're stuck with making the module more useful within the current mechanic. Anyway, I like Nos. They're fantastic for keeping tackle running under neuts, in fact I prefer a med Nos to an injector on a WH tackle Proteus. They're unpopular because they're too hard to fit and because the drain amount isn't enough. There's scope for cutting the cycle time too.
I also think nos is great for this role. What about decreasing the cycle time on them so they are more effective at keeping mods running and surviving under neuts.
I.e. Small NOS 3 second duration -> 2 second duration Medium NOS 6 second duration -> 4 second duration Large NOS 12 second duration -> 8 second duration.
This is a 33% buff to current NOS, and now each one cycles 3x in the same time a neut cycles once. So much more effective at capping up. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
142
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Posted - 2012.10.24 15:33:00 -
[722] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Reppyk wrote:Gypsio III wrote:The mechanic of Nos is perfect That's why nobody (but some bears on high spare slots) are using them. Well, come up with a better mechanic then - and make sure that this mechanic doesn't intrude into Neuts' role. I don't think you can do this, so we're stuck with making the module more useful within the current mechanic. Anyway, I like Nos. They're fantastic for keeping tackle running under neuts, in fact I prefer a med Nos to an injector on a WH tackle Proteus. They're unpopular because they're too hard to fit and because the drain amount isn't enough. There's scope for cutting the cycle time too. I also think nos is great for this role. What about decreasing the cycle time on them so they are more effective at keeping mods running and surviving under neuts. I.e. Small NOS 3 second duration -> 2 second duration Medium NOS 6 second duration -> 4 second duration Large NOS 12 second duration -> 8 second duration. This is a 33% buff to current NOS, and now each one cycles 3x in the same time a neut cycles once. So much more effective at capping up.
I like it..
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sten mattson
1st Praetorian Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
16
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Posted - 2012.10.24 15:52:00 -
[723] - Quote
tbh NOS work just fine as they are, most of my kills would never have been possible just because of the small NOS
i agree though that the powergrid requirements on medium NOS are a little to big for their use , i would say reduce them to 100-120 or so
as it i now thay us
EDIT: to those wanting to reduce the cycle time of the NOS , try overheating them sometime :P IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!! |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
400
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Posted - 2012.10.24 16:15:00 -
[724] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Suitonia wrote: Small NOS 3 second duration -> 2 second duration Medium NOS 6 second duration -> 4 second duration Large NOS 12 second duration -> 8 second duration.
This is a 33% buff to current NOS, and now each one cycles 3x in the same time a neut cycles once. So much more effective at capping up.
I like it..
Seems very sensible. I still think that PG requirements need altering though. Take the first Moa iteration here - a Moa with a med Nos in that utility high would have been able to keep tackle and possibly guns (depending on severity ofc) running under neuting. Given the ubiquity of neuts on Hurricanes and Ruptures, this is a useful ability, but is it really worth 175 MW? Would halving the PG of Nos be excessive?
It's also odd that they take about 25% more CPU than neuts, I don't see how that can be justified. |
Wivabel
Exanimo Inc Unclaimed.
40
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Posted - 2012.10.24 16:29:00 -
[725] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Reppyk wrote:Gypsio III wrote:The mechanic of Nos is perfect That's why nobody (but some bears on high spare slots) are using them. Well, come up with a better mechanic then - and make sure that this mechanic doesn't intrude into Neuts' role. I don't think you can do this, so we're stuck with making the module more useful within the current mechanic. Anyway, I like Nos. They're fantastic for keeping tackle running under neuts, in fact I prefer a med Nos to an injector on a WH tackle Proteus. They're unpopular because they're too hard to fit and because the drain amount isn't enough. There's scope for cutting the cycle time too. I also think nos is great for this role. What about decreasing the cycle time on them so they are more effective at keeping mods running and surviving under neuts. I.e. Small NOS 3 second duration -> 2 second duration Medium NOS 6 second duration -> 4 second duration Large NOS 12 second duration -> 8 second duration. This is a 33% buff to current NOS, and now each one cycles 3x in the same time a neut cycles once. So much more effective at capping up.
I was thinking the along the same lines then the forums ate my post. I also think lowering the fitting requirements would be icing on the cake. If balance is an issue just remove the offensive aspect of the module all together maybe?
Also I am likeing the second round of changes so far. To be a part of future EVE intrigue check us out. Sov in the south. Small gang pew is what we do when we not defending lovely space.-á
http://exanimo.enjin.com/page/150364/recruitment-á |
Lili Lu
556
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Posted - 2012.10.24 16:39:00 -
[726] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Suitonia wrote: Small NOS 3 second duration -> 2 second duration Medium NOS 6 second duration -> 4 second duration Large NOS 12 second duration -> 8 second duration.
This is a 33% buff to current NOS, and now each one cycles 3x in the same time a neut cycles once. So much more effective at capping up.
I like it.. Seems very sensible. I still think that PG requirements need altering though. Take the first Moa iteration here - a Moa with a med Nos in that utility high would have been able to keep tackle and possibly guns (depending on severity ofc) running under neuting. Given the ubiquity of neuts on Hurricanes and Ruptures, this is a useful ability, but is it really worth 175 MW? Would halving the PG of Nos be excessive? It's also odd that they take about 25% more CPU than neuts, I don't see how that can be justified.
Well because a neut doesn't need to calculate the target's cap resevoir in order to know when to stop it's vampyric activity.
Anyway, I'm not so sure about reducing nos cycle time. Make nos too strong in this regard and a Neut loses its utility. As was said above, overheat is an option to reduce cycle time.
Regarding the new changes. A step in the right direction. Maller finally has a drone bay. But it could be a bit larger. Moa has a 5th mid. We will have to see with testing whether it makes the ship too tanky. All of these changes are probably going to be affected by further module and/or rig changes of which we are presently unaware.
Thanks, Fozzie
And please, be careful with BCs when you get there. It would be a shame to have these ships stay static in strength differential to the current tier 2s (well pre-Cane nerf values) and then just again be passed over in favor of BC. |
Wivabel
Exanimo Inc Unclaimed.
40
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 16:48:00 -
[727] - Quote
Fitting is high on Nos because they used to be much more powerful. You may be right on cycle times. Adjusting the fitting requirements may be enough as on most ships you have to sacrifice alot to fit a nos. I usually end up fitting small nos on cruiser/bc hulls because of fitting. To be a part of future EVE intrigue check us out. Sov in the south. Small gang pew is what we do when we not defending lovely space.-á
http://exanimo.enjin.com/page/150364/recruitment-á |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
690
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 16:55:00 -
[728] - Quote
Suitonia wrote: Small NOS 3 second duration -> 2 second duration Medium NOS 6 second duration -> 4 second duration Large NOS 12 second duration -> 8 second duration.
This is a 33% buff to current NOS, and now each one cycles 3x in the same time a neut cycles once. So much more effective at capping up.
I think this would help.... Then a 1x NOS can run 1x Neut, and 2x NOS can run an Armor Repper (assuming you don't get cap drained between NOS cycles).
Gypsio III wrote: Seems very sensible. I still think that PG requirements need altering though. Take the first Moa iteration here - a Moa with a med Nos in that utility high would have been able to keep tackle and possibly guns (depending on severity ofc) running under neuting. Given the ubiquity of neuts on Hurricanes and Ruptures, this is a useful ability, but is it really worth 175 MW? Would halving the PG of Nos be excessive?
It's also odd that they take about 25% more CPU than neuts, I don't see how that can be justified.
I personally thing the PG for a small nos is pretty close to where it should be.... Using a utility high for a NOS or Neut should strain the PG of a frigate hull, either encouraging a fitting mod or the downgrade of weapons... Neuts are a standard defense against frigates, and if you make NOS's to easy to fit they'll undermine one of the primary purposes of a Neut...
I do agree both the medium NOS and heavy NOS could use a PG reduction....
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To mare
Advanced Technology
33
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Posted - 2012.10.24 17:50:00 -
[729] - Quote
Moa with ASB will be OP in the same way the merlin it is now in the frig class shield resist and damage bonus are awesome together for shield tankers (its already a very good cruiser now). the Maller and vexor will be better than now but nothing gamebreaking. the rupture will follow the same fate of the rifter wich is sad, 2 bonus just to get same turret dps of the moa/maller (wich use only 1 bonus) no tank no range bonus.
im still very convinced the only T1 combat cruiser minmatar will have after the expansion will be the bellicose |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
501
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 18:04:00 -
[730] - Quote
To mare wrote:Moa with ASB will be OP in the same way the merlin it is now in the frig class shield resist and damage bonus are awesome together for shield tankers (its already a very good cruiser now).
Oversized ASBs are to blame for that, not the hulls.
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
143
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Posted - 2012.10.24 19:44:00 -
[731] - Quote
sten mattson wrote:tbh NOS work just fine as they are, most of my kills would never have been possible just because of the small NOS
i agree though that the powergrid requirements on medium NOS are a little to big for their use , i would say reduce them to 100-120 or so
as it i now thay us
EDIT: to those wanting to reduce the cycle time of the NOS , try overheating them sometime :P
We were talking about medium/large nos's |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2030
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 19:52:00 -
[732] - Quote
Just wanted to let everyone know that these and all the other Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate and module changes announced so far will be on Duality for public testing this weekend. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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MotorBoatMe WithYourFace
PiiiGGGss iiiNNN SSSpppAAAcccEEE
3
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Posted - 2012.10.24 20:38:00 -
[733] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know that these and all the other Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate and module changes announced so far will be on Duality for public testing this weekend.
Will this include the missile changes as well?
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Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
146
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Posted - 2012.10.24 20:44:00 -
[734] - Quote
MotorBoatMe WithYourFace wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know that these and all the other Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate and module changes announced so far will be on Duality for public testing this weekend. Will this include the missile changes as well? yes |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2033
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 20:58:00 -
[735] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:MotorBoatMe WithYourFace wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know that these and all the other Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate and module changes announced so far will be on Duality for public testing this weekend. Will this include the missile changes as well? yes This man is correct. The most recent version of the missile changes will be up for testing. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
335
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 21:32:00 -
[736] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:MotorBoatMe WithYourFace wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know that these and all the other Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate and module changes announced so far will be on Duality for public testing this weekend. Will this include the missile changes as well? yes This man is correct. The most recent version of the missile changes will be up for testing.
And the hurricane? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2034
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 22:11:00 -
[737] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:MotorBoatMe WithYourFace wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know that these and all the other Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate and module changes announced so far will be on Duality for public testing this weekend. Will this include the missile changes as well? yes This man is correct. The most recent version of the missile changes will be up for testing. And the hurricane?
Yup Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
148
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Posted - 2012.10.25 05:33:00 -
[738] - Quote
Go to Dev Posts, read, and check this quote from the Cane / HML threadnaught.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Want to try the most recent version of these changes out for yourself and see how it affects your play? Log onto Duality starting this Friday where all these changes will be live alongside a bunch of other Retribution content to test. I'll be online as much as possible to chat with you all about all these changes and we will be hoping for a new round of feedback from people who have tried the changes out!
So yes, everything in the OP will be on Duality |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
109
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 09:23:00 -
[739] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:New changes, designed to solve some of the problems brought up so far: Note that we've upped the mass of all the Combat cruisers in part to help keep them feeling distinct from the other cruisers.
Maller: More fittings and cap to help it operate with the still difficult to use lasers. Added 3 light drones to help with damage application. +150 PG, +20 CPU -200 Shield, +200 Armor +75 Capacitor, -50s Cap Recharge Time, +0.5 Cap/s -10 Velocity, -0.04 Agility, +500,000 mass, -0.2s Align time +15m3 Dronebay, +15mbit bandwidth
Moa: Moving a high to a mid provides more tackle and tank options at the expense of the utility high. Slightly lower speed and higher mass alongide a better tank layout and more fittings. -1H, +1M +50 PG, +5 CPU +200 Shield, -200 Armor, +100 Structure +75 Capacitor, +0.15 Cap/s -5 Velocity, -0.02 Agility, +500,000 mass
Vexor: Upped the mass, as the old values were just a bit too insane in practice. Added 25m3 dronebay to allow more more spare drones to be carried. -10 Velocity, -0.07 Agility, +1,000,000 mass, -0.2s Align time +25m3 Dronebay
Rupture: As many of you pointed out, the Rupture speed was simply too good. My bad. -1 Launcher -100 Structure -30 Velocity, -0.04 Agility, +550,000 mass, -0.2s Align time
OP has been updated
Fantastic |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
193
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Posted - 2012.10.25 10:01:00 -
[740] - Quote
This is :moasome: \o/ |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
336
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Posted - 2012.10.25 11:46:00 -
[741] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:New changes, designed to solve some of the problems brought up so far: Note that we've upped the mass of all the Combat cruisers in part to help keep them feeling distinct from the other cruisers.. How does adding drones to the Maller help keep it distinct from the drone heavy Omen?
Three lights are nigh useless, particularly with no spares and it makes it feel/smell like a generic solution. Moa got transformed into a massive tank that has to sacrifice said tank or damage to secure cap (inject or nos), why not let the Maller be the hammer to the Moa's anvil and increase its damage .. either by swapping to RoF or by adding 2.5%/lvl to current bonus.
As a pure gun boat it will be vastly different from the Omen and almost all other cruisers, it will have to sacrifice damage/tank/utility(mids) to secure cap and should generally just be a lot more "Amarr", ie. insanely good at that one thing at the cost of becoming vulnerable to a whole slew of counters.
PS/NB/In short: With speeds going up across the board (especially for frigs), pulses are rapidly becoming one trick ponies that has to rely on the sublime range of scorch as tracking is sub-par and few hulls have mids to alleviate it .. let them be the unwieldy hammers that we all know and love from being tackled with a flashlight (bringer of light, laser, holy Amarr .. get it? ) at its optimal!
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Martin0
Maximum-Overload
83
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:45:00 -
[742] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Vexor: Upped the mass, as the old values were just a bit too insane in practice. Added 25m3 dronebay to allow more more spare drones to be carried. -10 Velocity, -0.07 Agility, +1,000,000 mass, -0.2s Align time +25m3 Dronebay
I love you
If you find a way to fix armor tanking i'll love you even more (my female alt may marry you LOL) |
Enzo Ildari
The Wings of Maak Defiant Legacy
0
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Posted - 2012.10.25 19:30:00 -
[743] - Quote
Srsly please change this, Thorax is Tier4 and Vexor Tier3, not the opposite. Thorax should be the Combat Cruiser.
Scythe->Bellicose->Stabber->Rupture Exequror->Celestis->Vexor->Thorax Augoror->Arbitrator->Omen->Maller Osprey->Blackbird->Caracal->Omen |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2042
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 19:31:00 -
[744] - Quote
Enzo Ildari wrote:Srsly please change this, Thorax is Tier4 and Vexor Tier3, not the opposite. Thorax should be the Combat Cruiser.
It's called Tiericide friend. We're taking the tiers out back and putting them out of their misery. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Aglais
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
139
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Posted - 2012.10.25 19:34:00 -
[745] - Quote
Enzo Ildari wrote:Srsly please change this, Thorax is Tier4 and Vexor Tier3, not the opposite. Thorax should be the Combat Cruiser.
Get out.
Just get out.
As long as Major Killz is still on this forum we've reached oversaturation of troll. We don't need any more people contributing things like this. |
Enzo Ildari
The Wings of Maak Defiant Legacy
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 19:34:00 -
[746] - Quote
And you will change skills requirments so.
But can you explain why all of this cruisers have same logic except Vexor and Thorax ?
@Aglais : Know what is a troll, read what you wrote, you will see. I just needed an answer, not a troll post. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
151
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Posted - 2012.10.25 19:41:00 -
[747] - Quote
Enzo Ildari wrote:And you will change skills requirments so.
But can you explain why all of cruisers have same logic except Vexor and Thorax ?
@Aglais : Ok, apologize... Because the Thorax looks more like an attack cruiser? It damn sure looks faster than the Vexor |
Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 19:46:00 -
[748] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Enzo Ildari wrote:And you will change skills requirments so.
But can you explain why all of cruisers have same logic except Vexor and Thorax ?
@Aglais : Ok, apologize... Because the Thorax looks more like an attack cruiser? It damn sure looks faster than the Vexor
This is not empty quoting, honest. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Aglais
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
139
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Posted - 2012.10.25 20:12:00 -
[749] - Quote
Enzo Ildari wrote:And you will change skills requirments so.
But can you explain why all of cruisers have same logic except Vexor and Thorax ?
@Aglais : Ok, apologize...
Coincidence. In the case of Caldari it's really just one having the role of a long range missile platform, with speed, and the other being a slower but much tougher ship that focuses more on survivability. This is a trend throughout all four factions.
It just so happened that the Gallente tier 4 cruiser had more in common with the 'attack' role than the 'combat' role. All that is really happening is that each ship is being built into a role that it already kind of had before, but wasn't expressing particularly well. The only real exception to this to my knowledge is the Bellicose, but that's a totally different kind of cruiser. |
The VC's
Spack Force 5
53
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Posted - 2012.10.26 01:18:00 -
[750] - Quote
Calling all laser purists. Please chip in.
You may disagree but there seems to be a trend in this thread that occurred in the combat frig discussion. A lot of meaningful talk about the Minmatar, Gallente and Caldari ships with relatively little about Amarr, apart from "Yay, it's got a damage bonus, I might, maybe, think about fitting lasers and flying it, sometime. When I get round to training them", or something.
It's understandable. For years both the Maller and the Punisher were usually autocannon fit if they were ever used at all and many players only saw training lasers as a way to get into the boss mode Amarr battleships, with Zealots and 'Bingers as a bonus. Comparatively, there's not so much experience of shooting lasers from smaller T1 ships out there IMO, so not so much discussion either. You still don't see Punishers that often.
To be fair, they are 'hard mode' somewhat. They have some great strengths, but they also have profound weaknesses that really take some committed skillpoints to overcome. Also, in practice lasers are more dependant on piloting experience to get a good quality shot, unlike AC's, blasters, missiles and drones which are more forgiving. This, compounded by their limited midslot force multiplication too has meant that fewer players persevere with them and move on to other, more immediately rewarding ships.
The tactics of flying an Amarr laser boat differ from the received wisdom. Not much is written about it. When they say 'Get in close, under their guns!', the 'their' they are referring to is in fact, you. The utility high is vital to Amarr brawling strategy.
The Neutralizer. It forces your opponent into one of two positions. They can stay out of it's range, a range at which your guns have no problem tracking them. Or they can get in close and hope that they can break your tank before their loadout is compromised. The neut is a great equalizer, so long as you can tank the dps until it works.
The Nosferatu. Yes, the nos. Even though Amarr ships have the strongest capacitor, when you're shooting laser beams it's still not enough. Particularly in an extended engagement. Being slower, their prop mods can be running for longer to cover the same ground as faster ships and fitting a cap booster means deciding between a point or a web. A nos can do a lot to ease the pressure, even a small one. Especially if you are shooting conflag (it's freakin' green!!).
Moar Heatz. Not much, but a wee bit more. Ok, not so integral but when you burn your guns out a spare slot can mean you still have life in some when you ungroup them. Which is nice. (Hey, it happens)
Personally I'd like to see a ship with a robust tank and a fitting option of either a neut and FMPL's or just HMPL's. Four turrets, one utility, +10% damage per level. I know I'm harping on about it but I've had the spare time to post a more detailed case.
Veshta Yoshida wrote: As a pure gun boat it will be vastly different from the Omen and almost all other cruisers, it will have to sacrifice damage/tank/utility(mids) to secure cap and should generally just be a lot more "Amarr", ie. insanely good at that one thing at the cost of becoming vulnerable to a whole slew of counters.
In a game of 'Rock, Scissors, Paper' all Amarr brawlers can hope to be is a really badass rock. With good skills it can be a rock with sharp jagged edges that will even give paper a hard time.
Drones aren't the answer imo. They won't compliment the ship or it's combat strategy. The Maller should be a sphere of hell. If you enter it, you need a plan. You can always leave if you can't take the heat. It'll still be slow.
Thanks for your time. |
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