It all around looks good, but the Moa looks a little odd with even mid and low slots. It'd be hard to fit a proper brawling shield tank and tackle at the same time, and there are almost too many lows, even after putting on a nano and a couple of mag stabs.

Registering Vexor pilot approval.

The other changes look nice too. I expect some Rupture fans to start crying about the -1H slot though. :)

3 mags 1 damage control seems good to me perhap remove a high for a mid since launchers are a waste of time and a spare high isn't very useful on it.

I gladly trade the highslot, that was difficult to fit anyway, against the midslot and another 25 cpu

I expect some Rupture fans to start crying about the -1H slot though. :)

I need to crunch the Moa's grid but it doesn't look on face value to have gotten that much of a buff. I currently need the genolution implant set to squeeze a fit onto it. The grid improvement is a bit underwhelming. I like the Moa's bonus change though. I also like that the Rupture has one nuet rather then two.

Moa is probably going to be better with the damage bonus, although medium hybrids are the real issue with mid-sized hybrid boats so it's hard to judge. It really doesn't need the drones though, and consider losing a low to gain a midslot for better tanking and such, the 4/4 low/mid arrangement is very un-caldari like!

I'm fairly happy with all of these changes, but the rupture is a bit OP (coming from someone who loves them). Extra 50 m/s base and 4 mids? Holy crap this thing is going to be awesome.

Moa:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to shield resistances
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M, 4 L, 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 800 PWG (+20), 375 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2100(+225) / 1200(-129) / 1500(-24)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1425(+50) / 475s(-16.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / 0.54 / 11720000 / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 260(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 450 (+200)


Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480

Why Moa have only 4 medium slots? As brawler he need tank and good tackle options, we put scrambler, web and MWD and only 1 medium slot left for tank. Better remove 1 hight slot and give additional 1 medium, trade for 1 low slot will be good too.

Slowest ship of this type, so a lot of low sots only can have at dealing damage. This ship have bonus for shield not for armor.

I also remaine unconvinced of the logic behind subtracting a slot for drone boats.

Having drones as a main DPS source is more of a drawback than an advantage.

Pros:

-once set they keep firing even when the mothership is jammed
-if the appropriate drone size is used, tracking is not an issue


Cons:

-Drone bays are very limited
-Drones can be destroyed by enemy pilots
-Drones are RAPIDLY destroyed by gateguns
-Drone DPS, even with the new damage modules remains relatively low

In my opinion there is no need to remove a slot from drone boats.

Hmm! The Vexor has become fierce. I don't that people understand what this cruiser will be able to do. @tleast in scram range. It will be able to smoke tier 1 battlecruisers close range. Abuse tracking on some and kite others in scram range. Signature tanking for the win?

Not to sure about the Moa, but it's damage is sim to the Thorax with alot more tank.

The Maller is meh, but ab-maller fleets will do more damage.


Well, nothing will change much from these changes, just these ships ability to engage above thier class (battlecruisers).

Vexor and Rupture are still top dog, but now the Omen, Bellicose and Caracal may join them.

. . .

Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480

. . .

6th moa high->mid

(because honestly, you can't get anything useful in that 6th slot, why would you put it. Stop putting placeholder slots)

everything else is good

The Maller is still a useless brick, just more... bricky. It doesn't need that big cargohold either, as a laser boat it won't use much for ammo (assuming everyone won't just keep using projectiles on it, because better damage + no cap use = WIN). The Amarr are the 2nd drone race and this thing doesn't even get a set of lights, while the Moa gets to keep its 3 drones? (The Moa's got an extra highslot for a missile launcher, it doesn't need the drones). And without that utility high and cap use bonus the Maller is going to have big power problems; how about an extra midslot to mount a cap booster instead of that extra low (toughness was never its problem, 6 lows is cute but unnecessary, and for the love of god, give it at least a couple of drones).

Maller:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 3 M, 6 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 1000 PWG (+100), 280 CPU

Moa:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to shield resistances
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M, 4 L, 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 800 PWG (+20), 375 CPU (+15)

Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)

Rupture:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L, 4 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 860 PWG, 350 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(-63) / 1800(+159) / 1600(+37)

Would an ECM heavy drone with +50% increase in strength be overpowered?

yes, ridiculously

Utility highs are cool, it's about time we have them on something else than minmatar ships. I think the Moa might even have enough pg to fit a medium neut into that

Registering Vexor pilot approval.

The other changes look nice too. I expect some Rupture fans to start crying about the -1H slot though. :)

Why Moa have only 4 medium slots? As brawler he need tank and good tackle options, we put scrambler, web and MWD and only 1 medium slot left for tank. Better remove 1 hight slot and give additional 1 medium, trade for 1 low slot will be good too.

Slowest ship of this type, so a lot of low sots only can have at dealing damage. This ship have bonus for shield not for armor.

I am a little puzzled why the Minmatar and Gallente combat cruisers doesn't follow the line of Combat ships with a Repair bonus for the Vexor and Shield Boost bonus for the Rupture. The Vexor and Rupture looks more in line with Attack Cruisers suited up for dps and not so much staying power... In my opinion Minmatar should have a tank cruiser and Gallente should have a cruiser with a repair bonus to follow the trends and perhaps break the obsolete image of Minmatar as a buffer gank race and the image of Gallente Droneboats with 1 unused bonus.

Wouldn't the rupture steal the spotlight from the Stabber with its 4 mids? I would love to see both ships viable and different.

This, pretty much. I'm playing around with them in evehq and I can't come up with anything I can do with a stabber that the rupture doesn't do better.

This, pretty much. I'm playing around with them in evehq and I can't come up with anything I can do with a stabber that the rupture doesn't do better.

Major Killz
Posted: 2012.10.02 14:38

First of all. The dudes complaining about the Rupture getting a boost are p deluded. The ship got 1 mid slot and lost a utility slot. Every other combat cruiser received a significant boost. Either a damage bonus or extra slots. The Vexor is the worse offender and probably, along with other Gallente ships should be near overpowered given Gallente ships lack of versatility.

Only those who understand meta combat aspects of Eve will see the usefulness of a forth mid slot. Most will just think about having an extra shield extender.

In anycase, if the Rupture didn't get a forth mid slot many attack cruisers would overshadow a Rupture close or long range and according to CCP that's not suppose to happen.

So only 3 of the 4 cruisers on that list got boosted. The Rupture is the same ship and all of the combat cruisers got a increase in velocity.

EDIT: Also, to the r3t@rds. The Omen will and does do significantly more damage @ 17km than a shield-Rupture. The new Caracal and Bellicose will also out damage a Rupture @ those ranges with more tank. Infact the shield-Rupture will have as much damage and tnak as a shield-thorax @ 20km.

100'% agree
If you dont want too add an Extra Mid - 1 Lowslot pls....
otherwise Moa is a real bad Cruiser :/

I was expecting to see some tank bonuses. I don't think adding 100-200 to the base hitpoints really makes any difference at all in the end setup, because there's so much plating and extending going on. These all seem to be based around buffer tanking as well, and for 3 of them if you're fitting them properly that's buffer armour. Buffer armour makes you far too slow, wrecks your agility and uses too much fitting, and in the case of small gang honour bros you have a problem with getting your HP back, which is really a seriously annoying problem if you're a pirate as well.

all i have to say is that i love how you are sort of making the combat cruisers be mini versions of the tier 3 battleships, mini abaddon, mini maelstrom, mini rokh, mini dominix? when will we get a fix for poor hyperion and the Rokh could use a DPS bonus instead of the optimal one really.

Cool

cruisers getting a 25% velocity buff and mostly a fourth midslot. And you want to armortank them?

Omen doing more damage than rupture? What did you smoke?
Yeah all combat cruisers got increase in velocity and rupture is still faster.
Standard Rupture fit is 4 425mm ac T2, med+¡um energy neut, small energy neut 2, large shield ext, warp dis2, 10mn microwarp, tracking enhancer2, nanofiber2, 2gyrostab 2, damage control, field extender, thermal and em shield rigs.
Does 391fdmg at 26km with drones, 1741m/s and 19k ehp. 465dmg/s with Rep fleet phase plasma m at almost 18km.
NOW we can get rid of the small energy neut and get an invu field.... CCP are you crazy???
That thing is faster than any other T1 non faction cruiser (okay stabber is faster) and kills like hell PLUS tank????
Rofl.

it kind of reminds me of the problems bc's have i hope they get nerfed more for these cruisers to be worth bothering with seems only the e-war cruisers are worth training in prep for T2 Recons

I think it should be the preferred option for all of them except the moa, but if it isn't, something is broken. If all that happens is that now people can fly 3 new superior variations on the LSE AC rupture, then these changes aren't very good.

Someone stop this dude before he continues to show how t@rded he really is. @ 20,000m (20k) that shield-Rupture with 2 tracking enhancers is in falloff. I dont include drones when comparing turret damage with regard to specific setups. The Rupture will only start seeing it's maximum damage @ 4,000m (4km)

The shield-Omen will be doing @tleast 300 damage p sec up to 27,000m (27km) and 360 damage p sec @ 9,000m (9km) and lower provided it can track. That is with Focused pulse and not with what will be a reduced heavy pulses.

@ 20km with faction ammunition and 2 tracking enhancers a Rupture will be doing less than 40 360 damage p sec without drones = / A Omen will be doing 300 damage p sec silly...

Now why anyone would try to Kite a shield Omen In a shield-Rupture with close range ammo I don't know. Your only hope is going up close and the shield Omen can prolong that long enough for either ship to lose.

Guess how much a Caracal will be doing after these changes? Right! Guess how much a shield-Thorax will do? About the same as the shield-Rupture. Guess what will out damage them both @ 20 k or morer? The Bellicose...

I think it should be the preferred option for all of them except the moa, but if it isn't, something is broken. If all that happens is that now people can fly 3 new superior variations on the LSE AC rupture, then these changes aren't very good.

blasters on caldari

scrub

I love the fact you are leaving drones out of this when the Rupture has them and the Omen does not. Add the Drones and look you are doing more damage at 20k. But then this breaks your argument. Give the Omen drones and I will be ok with what you are saying.

All the cool kids are doing it.

200mm moa 4 lyfe, 300 dps at 20km. Outdamage hacs erryday, tank like a 1600 plated rax/rupture except it all regenerates, cap out in 2 minutes.

Question about cap. It looks like average cap per second is just total cap divided by recharge rate. After applying skills it seems that this just makes all the average cap per seconds get to 5 per second.

The question, does the formula that gives you peak recharge around 33% mean that the Maller has a higher peak recharge than the other ships or that all ships in this class have the same peak to?

That sixth high still has issues fitting anything but a small nuet.

Moa: It doesn't have enough power grid and it's gimped with four mids:

High:
Nuetron II x 5
(empty)
Mid:
Named MWD
Regolith LSE
Adaptive Hardner II
Warp Scrambler II
Low:
MFS II x 2
TE II
DC II
Rigs:
Thermal Shield
EM Shield
Ancillary Current Router

Warrior II x 3

The above fit is 10 pg from becoming a reality. I can fit it with a genolution implant set - but that's not really fair to everyone else, eh? It does 477 DPS with Null and 649 DPS with Void. That is very nice. But it needs a web. Please note the empty worthless high slot?

Summary: Give this 10 - 20 more PG and trade that sixth high for a mid and we'll be in business.

CCP Stated that it would be hard to fit the highest sized guns on Cruisers. All you need is a 1% PG implant that is cheap. I do agree though that the Utility High should be a Mid slot.

STOP trying to put LSE's on everything.

= / Even with 3 Drones the damage would be similar on both ships like it is now...

Omen:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 6 L (+1), 5 turrets
Fittings: 925 PWG (+195), 315 CPU (+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1600(+37)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1475(+225) / 526s(+79.75s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+44) / 0.51(-0.05) / 11650000 / 5.6s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+25) / 40(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10) / 300(+7) / 6(-1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 125
Cargo capacity: 400(-50)


@tleast atempt to know what you're on about or atleast read...

why the hell did they feel the need to remove a high slot from the rupture :( i had a dam good setup on there and this nerfs the DPS quite a bit

other than that the changes seem fine , but why oh why did you nerf the ruppie

CCP Stated that it would be hard to fit the highest sized guns on Cruisers. All you need is a 1% PG implant that is cheap. I do agree though that the Utility High should be a Mid slot.

-1 utility high, +1 mid is a boost.

why the hell did they feel the need to remove a high slot from the rupture :( i had a dam good setup on there and this nerfs the DPS quite a bit

other than that the changes seem fine , but why oh why did you nerf the ruppie

It's funny, then, that the Rupture has more PG than the Moa, despite ACs needing less PG than blasters.

It's funny, then, that the Rupture has more PG than the Moa, despite ACs needing less PG than blasters.

This is a projectile thing, I think. ACs are the easiest weapons in the game to fit. Arties are the second hardest. If you give a ship the fitting to use arties, AC configs will have infinite powergrid (see cane and maelstrom). If they closed the gap a bit, things would be less dumb.

i would fly this moa

Moa:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to shield resistances
Slot layout: 5 H, 5 M, 4 L, 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 820 PWG (+40), 385 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2100(+225) / 1200(-129) / 1500(-24)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1425(+50) / 475s(-16.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / 0.54 / 11720000 / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 (+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 260(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 450 (+200)

Too many people seem to be interpreting the "Get rid of the Moa's utility high for a medslot" as a cry for a desire to slap on another LSE.

That wouldn't help it much at all. Far more important would be that fifth medslot, no utility highs, four lows. A 5/5/4 Moa could fit some damaging turrets, have flexibility in low slots for damage or tracking, or even nanofibres, and then furthermore you could fit the standard LSE, hardener, MWD and scrambler in mids, AS WELL AS a web if you're going for blasters. Or you could do a tracking enhancer with rails or something, I dunno. Either way, the Moa as a combat cruiser, based on what CCP wants them to be, has NO need for that utility high. It's incredibly hard to fit anything there anyways, so why keep it? It serves no purpose as a high and should be a mid. It also solidifies the Moa as being a definite shield tanker.

It WON'T have too much in common with the Caracal if anyone's worried about something ******** like "Well then these ships will be too similar" or anything. Because the Caracal is also kind of a missile boat. There'd be Kestrel/Merlin symmetry here at the cruiser and frigate level if the Moa gets itself a fifth medslot.

As for Moa drone bay, I strongly suggest keeping it. Three or four drones would be great, but I wouldn't really suggest five light drones.

This is a projectile thing, I think. ACs are the easiest weapons in the game to fit. Arties are the second hardest. If you give a ship the fitting to use arties, AC configs will have infinite powergrid (see cane and maelstrom). If they closed the gap a bit, things would be less dumb.

Yep, and it made sense back in 2009 when ACs weren't great, but were so easy to fit that an AC ship made up DPS deficiencies in neuts, mobility etc. Then in 2009ish people complained about ACs without looking at ships as a complete package, CCP hit the power-creep button and we ended up with people genuinely expecting to be able to fit top-tier guns, MWD, dual med neuts and an 1600 plate on a Hurricane or Rupture...

Yep, and it made sense back in 2009 when ACs weren't great, but were so easy to fit that an AC ship made up DPS deficiencies in neuts, mobility etc. Then in 2009ish people complained about ACs without looking at ships as a complete package, CCP hit the power-creep button and we ended up with people genuinely expecting to be able to fit top-tier guns, MWD, dual med neuts and an 1600 plate on a Hurricane or Rupture...

That would be a pretty odd expectation given that the typical plated cane and rupture setups use 220s and the rupture uses small neuts on top of that.

You're not getting it, like the Nighthawk, the Cyclone, and other resistnace based brawlers its not designed with a LSE in mind at all, its designed around an ACTIVE tank, burst, like its damage, is this concept foriegn to you?

Waiting on the LSE, tracking enhancer and null/barrage nerf.

You're not getting it, like the Nighthawk, the Cyclone, and other resistnace based brawlers its not designed with a LSE in mind at all, its designed around an ACTIVE tank, burst, like its damage, is this concept foriegn to you?

my guess for the bigger powergrid on the rupture is, that thy want to make it able to fit arties.
slap a rack of arties on there and most of the base grid will be gone.
even with the eased pg requirements a T2 650mm artie stil eats ~180 MW times 4 is 720 MW gone, and that is with perfect skills. plus a 800mm plate (rolled tungsten: 200 MW) and you are significantly over the base grid.

You're not getting it, like the Nighthawk, the Cyclone, and other resistnace based brawlers its not designed with a LSE in mind at all, its designed around an ACTIVE tank, burst, like its damage, is this concept foriegn to you?

Yeah I could have phrased that better. Or, better still, not phrased it at all. Still... there is something of a problem with PG requirements of artillery and ACs, and I don't envy anyone trying to improve it.

(I know ASBs exist, but aren't they getting nerfed? )

Or is the concept that ASBing all the things should not be the base of all ship designs foriegn to you.

Vexor:

Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)

Are you using the new T2 650mm numbers 198 with out skills so 178.2 PG with AWU V its not much but that is 160 PG saved. And if you look at the numbers now T2 650s+800 plate+MWD= 4*178.2+200+150=1062 and with perfect fitting skills the Ruppy has 1075 PG so more then enough.

Edit Sorry my math was off.

AFAIK the talk has been of nerfing multiple ASB's because a single ASB isn't really overpowered at all since its lifespan is finite


But the concept of active shield tanking ships having a limited mid selection is a common theme throughout the game, why is that so hard to understand?

You all want the Moa to have as many mids as the Cyclone and Nighthawk, the active tanked battlecruisers a full ship size above the cruiser, thats probably just not going to happen.


Also the active tanked HAM drake works just fine thanks, it tanks REALLY hard as most people who active tank already know, its just a victim of volley like most active tanked ships.

Grath. We're comparing the Moa to the Caracal. Not battlecruisers. The Caracal, an attack cruiser, has five med slots. Both the Merlin and Kestrel have four medium slots, so I fail to understand how taking a high off the Moa and making that it's fifth medium slot is a bad idea. There'd be symmetry between the missile and gun ships on two size classes with this.

I'm going to reiterate here. The CARACAL, another CALDARI CRUISER, has FIVE MED SLOTS. We are NOT CONSIDERING BATTLECRUISERS HERE. AT ALL.

AFAIK the talk has been of nerfing multiple ASB's because a single ASB isn't really overpowered at all since its lifespan is finite


But the concept of active shield tanking ships having a limited mid selection is a common theme throughout the game, why is that so hard to understand?

You all want the Moa to have as many mids as the Cyclone and Nighthawk, the active tanked battlecruisers a full ship size above the cruiser, thats probably just not going to happen.


Also the active tanked HAM drake works just fine thanks, it tanks REALLY hard as most people who active tank already know, its just a victim of volley like most active tanked ships.

Maller:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 3 M, 6 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 1000 PWG (+100), 280 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-168) / 2100(+225) / 1700(-19)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1550(+50) / 515s(-22.5s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+41) / 0.56(-0.045) / 11550000 / 6.1s (-0.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km / 280(+10) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 480 (+200)

Now till you can actualy think beyond being scared of cyclones, you should probialy rethink your statements

i was using the new numbers and as you showed much more accurately, you need awu 5 and perfect PG skills to make it happen. awu 5 is quite the requirement, which should not be forgotten.
what i wanted to say was: you need that grid to make arties an option. if you reduce it to put more restriction on autocannon fits, well no arty fits.
if testing shows that the rupture is over top, nerf it around the drones.

Armor and shield tanks work differently and trying in any way to compare them is silly. Shield tanks allow more mobility, the reps are frontloaded, and the shields themselves will repair slowly over time without any effort from the player. Armor cuts mobility to almost nothing, the rep cycles dont come until the end of the cycle and the armor wont repair itself..

project its damage to a respectable range via drones

But I am, they've said they intend it to be a brawler, and they've laid its slots out like the other active tanked brawlers.

bluh bluh active tanking brawlers ftw active tank everything close range ever forever because it is best

Obviously it must be. Cuz the Eagle is a 5 midslot Moa with extra resistances and EVERYBODY uses it.

Rupture could use a slight tone down on speed a bit. It's currently faster than every other racial attack cruiser (aside from the Stabber).

I believe they said that the cruiser bonuses will be transfered to the t2 ships right? So say you got your wish and the Moa got its 5th mid, whats the difference between it and the eagle that likely wont see its revamp until mid summer next year?

CCP has flatly stated that they dislike the buffer shield tank trend happening in EVE and the lot of you ignore that and continue to cry out for the ability to do it on all shield tanked ships.

The Moa will be an active tanked brawler, the Eagle will likely now be a better version of that.

Its ok that you dont like it but you should try to at least understand it.

Aw droneboat still has the least amount of slots total. I just can't understand why you keep cuting this one slot down. Is there a reason beside:

- Drones are a destructible source of damage/debuff
- Drones have travel time
- Utility drones don't work(except for jamming ones)
- Drones are user unfriendly
- Drones deal only EM and Exp damage types

... to handicap the ships so much?

Please. CCP Forzie, tell me that an in-built damage amplifier takes up that slot or maybe a drone bay leaves no internal hull space.

Maller:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 3 M, 6 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 1000 PWG (+100), 280 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-168) / 2100(+225) / 1700(-19)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1550(+50) / 515s(-22.5s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+41) / 0.56(-0.045) / 11550000 / 6.1s (-0.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km / 280(+10) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 480 (+200)

Omen:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 6 L (+1), 5 turrets
Fittings: 925 PWG (+195), 315 CPU (+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1600(+37)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1475(+225) / 526s(+79.75s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+44) / 0.51(-0.05) / 11650000 / 5.6s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+25) / 40(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10) / 300(+7) / 6(-1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 125
Cargo capacity: 400(-50)

Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480

Rupture:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L, 4 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 860 PWG, 350 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(-63) / 1800(+159) / 1600(+37)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1275(+25) / 425s(-21.25s) / 3(+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+48) / 0.54 / 11650000 / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 30 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km(+5) / 290(+8) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 15 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 125 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 450 (+150)

CCP has flatly stated that they dislike the buffer shield tank trend happening in EVE and the lot of you ignore that and continue to cry out for the ability to do it on all shield tanked ships.

Most of these threads are all over the place but there seems to be general consensus on most points here:

Moa - needs another mid. More PG.
Rupture - too much
Maller - underwhelming.

I like how instead of making medium rails good, they're simply making all Caldari gunboats blasterboats.

Woo homogeneity

The new Merlin doesn't have the utility high so probably Moa shouldn't either. Another mid would allow for ridiculous shield tank which would be awesome.

Rupture(and Minmatar in general). CCP thinks 40 m/s is not so much. Well yeah... probably... until you multiply it by 6 and then 1.094 on top of the best agility in the class.

Kinda agree on the Maller. It still lacks the soul or purpose.

I like how instead of making medium rails good, they're simply making all Caldari gunboats blasterboats.

Woo homogeneity

Besides, Gallente have to deal with the suck that is Railguns too, so it's hardly homogeneity.

Droneboats in general need a LOT more CPU to work with. A t2 drone link augmenter uses 55 CPU alone. A t1, 50cpu. The drone rigs decrease cpu by 10%, on ships that already have sever cpu limitations, their drone based damage mods are ridiculously hard to fit. The ishtar suffers from this problem immensely.

Wut? Isn't that exactly what homogeneity is?

You may have noticed that all the combat frigates with utility highslots are absolute trash.

Hello everyone! We've got the final set of T1 Cruisers here for you all. The Combat Cruisers are designed as frontline warships with both solid damage and good staying power.

These ships got somewhat less dramatic changes than the others. The average EHP of the set is only 2% higher than the average EHP of the old Tier 3 cruisers. Their main advantages over the other t1 cruisers are in tanking and a more robust capacitor pool.

Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480

So I take it Gallente drone boats will never get away from split weapon systems?

So they're both slow armor brawlers. I guess the Omen vs Maller is a question of better fittings + resist bonus vs drones? I honestly don't see the point of the Omen.

Maller with laser bonus \o/

Rifter? The old AC Punisher was nice too.

Rupture:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage