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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 72 post(s) |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
116
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:34:00 -
[151] - Quote
OMG, that's way better than blinking brackets :)
I can't wait for all those derp derp DERP moments I will experience when new crimewatch and bounties/kill rights hit the TQ. It will be like reliving first aggro a year ago. Can I shoot him? No, yes, maybe... Oh sh... why is that guy shooting me?! What, sentries don't help me?! They shoot ME? What do you mean it's because I shot somebody last week? I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Dirael Papier
Nevermined Inc Storm of Souls
22
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:35:00 -
[152] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:It'd be good with the specific bounties, if you could specify the payout percentage.
So I make a bounty on an enemy alliance available to my own alliance. With a 50% payout. Main issue I'd see with this is you specify 50% for an alliance bounty. Someone else specifies 50% for a personal bounty. Yet another person specifies 50% for a corporation bounty. And all of the sudden the bounty target in question can start killing themselves to get a 150% payout on their ship loss. And they can use that to start draining their own bounty and profit. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3162
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:35:00 -
[153] - Quote
jyppy wrote:Active kill rights leading to a suspect flag free-for-all - can't wait!
Also interested to find out useful information on how the CSM stakeholder experiment is working - input levels, feedback, disagreements etc.. will CCP be giving a view/blog on this? I'm sure the CSM will, in their own way :p
I'm glad you asked! The stakeholder experiment is still underway, and will be until the feature is actually released. There has certainly been a lot of lessons learned so far about what is working and what isn't working, and the CSM will be documenting these and sharing with the public for sure.
The plan going into this was for the mutual review (CCP's evaluation of the CSM, and vice versa) to take place at the end of the development cycle, so we can cover the project in its entirety and give both parties involved a fair chance to learn and respond to issues as they arose. However we're currently looking into shedding some light on this earlier than that if possible. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Mixu Paatelainen
New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
49
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:35:00 -
[154] - Quote
I am willing to have babies with any number of CCP staff. |
Eregorn81
Purging Maelstrom Villore Accords
9
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:36:00 -
[155] - Quote
A few suggestions to make everything *much* clearer:
Make a colortag in the overview (similar to war targets or FW targets) for:
- People that you can kill
- People that can kill you
- People that have killrights for sale.
This way, if I get caught with my pants down in my hauler, at least I can *panic* for a few seconds before getting nuked. ...or I could know that I can shoot at that industrial that just conveniently warped to me. |
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CCP Tuxford
C C P C C P Alliance
368
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:36:00 -
[156] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:
Let's pretend I think Tippia is a poop head (just for example, and to say someone recognizable), and I put a bounty on her for 10m isk. Then, let's pretend that there's one other person in all of eve who feels the same and places another 10m isk bounty.
After how long will I stop getting notified (eve mail? notification) of people delivering righteous fury upon her ships? Does it matter if I placed my bounty first, and then after that 10m is used up or...?
Roughly around the time where your bounty is spent. So in your case once bounties of the amount of 10million have been claimed you stop getting notified. This however hasn't been implemented so nothing is really set in stone
Moraguth wrote: Along these lines, let's pretend I think anyone associated with Tippia should feel the wrath of my pocketbook too and I decide to put a 500m bounty on her corp. Do I get notified of each kill? Do I see the kill report or just a note saying that ___ person from ___ corp was killed at ____ time and your contribution to the bounty pool against them has been reduced to ____?
The same applies here really except it doesn't really make sense to send a notification for each kill so likely this will be batched up.
https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates |
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
727
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:36:00 -
[157] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Yeah, this is a bad thing, and respectfully I would ask you to take a second look at it and its potential to be abused, especially since I can now place a bounty, anonymously, on anyone at all for any reason. The victim should at least know who did it, y'know? We have been actively discussing this for a while. This is one of the key reasons for the dev blog, we are asking you guys for your thoughts. And I see more and more people ask about this. So that is good to see. Personally, I think it's awesome that bounties are anonymous and I implore you not to change that. Nothing Found |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9838
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:36:00 -
[158] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:OMG, that's way better than blinking brackets :)
I can't wait for all those derp derp DERP moments I will experience when new crimewatch and bounties/kill rights hit the TQ. It will be like reliving first aggro a year ago. Can I shoot him? No, yes, maybe... Oh sh... why is that guy shooting me?! What, sentries don't help me?! They shoot ME? What do you mean it's because I shot somebody last week? I can feel a new EVE meme coming already: GÇ£don't gank people with your freighterGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
254
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:39:00 -
[159] - Quote
How will the bounty system tie in with self destruct? Hopefully, now that SD triggers kill mails, everyone will get a cut of the bounty. |
Matthias Aaron
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Ethereal Dawn
2
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:39:00 -
[160] - Quote
I think some people are not getting the "Sale of Kill Rights" correctly.
Imagine this scenario:
Player A: Hapless miner. Player B: Evil Pirate Player C: Evil Pirate's friend/alt
Player B finds A mining in a belt and ganks him. Player A has just loss 200million worth in assets (a made up number, lets use it just as an example) and now A has a Kill Right on B. Only A is a harmless miner and cant hope to exact revenge.
Player A decides then to sell his kill right. How much to sell it for? He just lost 200million, so he could sell it for that. But who would buy such a thing? Probably no one. So he thinks up a better price and decides 25million.
Player C says to B "hey look buddy, your kill right is for sale". B then asks C (who might be his alt and therefore B is mentally unstable) to please remove it by killing him in his rookie ship while in a clone with no implants. C kills B and A GETS 25 MILLION IN HIS POCKET! B and C just literally gifted A 25million!
Whats to stop C from killing B? Nothing, only the price tag of the kill right. Does C (or B if C is his alt) REALLY want to spend 25 million of HIS OWN POCKET so that A, a carebear, gets what would effectively be an "apology" for killing him? HELL NO! Because take into account that 25 million plus whatever insurance A got from his destroyed mining barge would help him a lot in getting back to another mining barge. Some people might just prefer to let SOMEONE ELSE contribute to As' "Help me get my Skiff back" fund. Others might just say "to hell with this" and shoot themselves anyway.
In either case A gets 25 million in his pocket.
I think it's brilliant! |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
78
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:39:00 -
[161] - Quote
The blog says about the bounty payout formula: Quote:The bounty payout is based on a percentage of the Total Loss, so the bounty received will always be considerably less than the actual Total Loss value. The base number weGÇÖre going for right now is 20%.
I understand that part of what is driving this is an attempt to prevent exploiting the system (like we currently have). With that in mind, may I suggest that the bounty payout formula be a percentage of:
Total Loss - Module Drop Value - Cargo Drop Value - Insurance Payout
Basically pay a bounty that is a proportion of the victim's actual wallet & asset loss. Also, with this newer formula I believe you can start with a substantially higher base percentage and still avoid setting up exploit scenarios.
MDD
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Bariolage
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:39:00 -
[162] - Quote
Great new system. In high sec I could see it incentivizing the tracking of a bounty target's patterns, to find a moment where they are flying an expensively fitted ship, and creating an efficient set up to suicide gank them at a low cost for profit.
I see a window though for harassment that has no reprecussions for the insanely wealthy. It would be relatively cheap to keep excessive bounties on someone you just want to bother, with great material loss for them and low hassle for the harasser, and not much recourse in the long run.
Maybe each discrete bounty placed should have a expiration system.
An example of a system could be: placing a bounty would expire in one month, with the money returned to the bounty placer except for a nominal fee set at a rate that would not completely make bounties useless, but have some sort of reprecussion, say around 5 percent to concord. The percentage lost could also scale up, so a person placing a 1 billion isk bounty might lose let's say 7-9 percent upon expiration, 10 billion might lose 10-11 percent, etc.
Also, a system to automatically renew the bounty could be put in place for those that really want to keep up a bounty. Maybe with either a loss in the bounty total each month, or a renewal of the bounty, with the difference payed out of wallet.
With an expiration system in place, it would still achieve a lot of goals. People that rightfully feel wronged can place bounties on people, and keep them up if they feel like it and can afford it, while people that are just being harassed for inexplicable reasons can play a game of careful hiding and feel that they are at least draining the harassers pocket slowly, with the possibility of a reprieve from the harassment. Also, people that truly deserve a bounty would still have high total bounties in excess of billions, but built up each discretely from each player they've wronged, with a low expiration fee on each individual bounty. So if you want to role play a crazy scum ball, you'd have to be a crazy scum ball to lots of people to get bounty imfamy
This also generally disincentivizes people putting up incredibly high bounties just because they can on a whim, but allows them to do so if they really feel moved to.
Gaming the percentage rate would be possible yes, by having other individuals placing bounties (friends/alts) but at least a rich person that purely just wants to harass someone would have to manage a lot of discrete bounties and money in order to game it, and also helps in stopping people from putting up enormous sums on a whim. |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
276
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:41:00 -
[163] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:How will the bounty system tie in with self destruct? Hopefully, now that SD triggers kill mails, everyone will get a cut of the bounty.
they already annouced that sd-ing will generate a killmail for the last person to do damage to the ship Low-sec Best-sec |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
929
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:41:00 -
[164] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Ummm....big difference. Now goons can place an X on someone's back, and ANY ganker, ANYWHRE, ANYTIME, can nail someone. This essentially makes every ganker in space a member of the Ministry of Love.
Now, I am waiting for people to say , "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", but imagine this scenario:
Goons hate someone. They place a 10 billion bounty on them. That person is flying a freighter, somewhere in high sec. The ship has a load of say, 700M, which is well below the usual safe threshold of 1 billion to make it profitable to gank a freighter. At current prices that ship is worth about 1.5 billion. That makes the payout of the bounty about 300M, plus the potential payoff of the payload of the freighter makes the gank profitable.
Or another scenario. Same victim wants to fly a Marauder in missions. Hull cost is about 800M. Now, you tack on T2 rigs, some faction stuff, and you can easily hit 2 billion in value. The bounty payout is 400M, and you can gank a mission boat in 0.5 space with 2-3 Tornados. Suddenly, the mission runner who usually is ignored by gankers, will ALWAYS be attacked.
With the existing system, the average ganker would say, look at a PvE BS and say, nah, since I am getting no payout, and unsure the nice modules will drop, so not worth it. Now, not only is that person flagged as they stroll through the gate, ALL gankers will pounce, since the bounty guarantees that at worst they will recover their losses, and the modules are gravy.
Holy ****. I think he figured it out! Wow, congratz! You're a genius!
Dude. That's the freaking point...
Oh no, this doesn't nerf gankers?!?? WE"RE ALL DOOOOOMED.
/sarcasm.
Seriously, welcome to EVE. Sit back, and have a vodka and watch the place burn. /me twirls martini umbrella. Where I am. |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
135
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:41:00 -
[165] - Quote
Looks good, but some concerns and suggestions:
(1) The ability to place bounties on anyone and anything can, and (this being EVE) will be used to hold newer players and smaller corporations for ransom, or to just plain grief them. The wardec mechanic already protects large alliances from smaller ones; this mechanic will further tilt the balance toward well-established, wealthy null alliances. As has already been pointed out, an alliance like Goonswarm can quite easily place bounties on individual players to make ganking them profitable. We've already seen Goons use the metagame to drive players out of EVE; there's no real reason to make such behavior even easier.
There is a very simple and straightforward solution: keep the -1 sec status ceiling for bounties. If a player's sec status rises above -1, bounties will still be paid from the pool, but no new bounties can be placed on him. Similarly, if a bounty is placed on a corporation or alliance, bounties will only be paid for killing pilots with negative sec status. Can also pay bounties for players flagged as suspects or criminals. This will allow players to punish and hunt those who engage in pirate-like activity, without opening the floodgates for additional griefing and exploitation. If an alliance or a player wants to pay for suicide ganking or otherwise hunting a player with a high sec status, they can still do so -- Hulkageddon comes to mind.
(2) Kill rights should be lost if they are used to suspect-flag a player. The holder of the kill-rights should face a choice of either optioning his killright, or of holding it for later use. He should not be able to follow around the person who killed him and flag him as a suspect every fifteen minutes until he dies. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1043
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:41:00 -
[166] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I am confused. I have read the dev blog twice. I see the part in the blog where the -1 sec status requirement has been removed, so that makes me think anyone in the game, in any sec area, can have a bounty on them, and be a target if someone if some bounty hunter is willing to accept high sec consequences of Concord.
So what is to stop someone like goons from placing a 10 billion isk bounty on someone they dislike, which pays out with 50 billion ISK in ship and implant losses, then restarting the bounty again, until the person they have set the bounty on has had their assets completely wiped out?
I don't see how that's different than just ganking him over and over without the bounty? It is not. What is different is the incentive to actually do it, meaning it is much more likely to happen. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
727
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:42:00 -
[167] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Goons hate someone. They place a 10 billion bounty on them. That person is flying a freighter, somewhere in high sec. The ship has a load of say, 700M, which is well below the usual safe threshold of 1 billion to make it profitable to gank a freighter. At current prices that ship is worth about 1.5 billion. That makes the payout of the bounty about 300M, plus the potential payoff of the payload of the freighter makes the gank profitable.
Or another scenario. Same victim wants to fly a Marauder in missions. Hull cost is about 800M. Now, you tack on T2 rigs, some faction stuff, and you can easily hit 2 billion in value. The bounty payout is 400M, and you can gank a mission boat in 0.5 space with 2-3 Tornados. Suddenly, the mission runner who usually is ignored by gankers, will ALWAYS be attacked.
With the existing system, the average ganker would say, look at a PvE BS and say, nah, since I am getting no payout, and unsure the nice modules will drop, so not worth it. Now, not only is that person flagged as they stroll through the gate, ALL gankers will pounce, since the bounty guarantees that at worst they will recover their losses, and the modules are gravy. Solution: Stop making terrible posts and maybe the big bad Goonies won't place bounties on your head.
This is an excellent way for the playerbase to decide who is actually "bad" and it is completely awesome. Nothing Found |
Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
57
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:44:00 -
[168] - Quote
Do bounty payouts on pods include the clone cost? |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1522
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:46:00 -
[169] - Quote
So you fixed the still broken hisec war decs by obsoleting them by way of this new bounty system
amirite? TK is recruiting |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1261
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:47:00 -
[170] - Quote
hmmm...
I seem to remember the salvage drone being in another devblog.
ma+¦ana ma+¦ana ma+¦ana....
That be-snatch asside... this new bounty system kicks ***. It's awesome. The idea of putting a bounty on a structure is awesome! Bounties on corps or alliances is pretty sweet too... I think you'll really be able to turn up the heat on a corp purely with ISK! That's awesome!
Edit: Awesome.
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Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:47:00 -
[171] - Quote
In regards to the bounty payout for blowing up someone's pod - not only include in your calculation the cost of implants, but also the cost of the clone itself. Moraguth's clones cost ALOT of money (please don't kill me, it's painful). I think maybe killing my pod should be worth more than killing the pod of some 2yr noob. Granted, we both have the same abilities to get away and hide in our pods since SP doesn't matter, but I still think it should be represented in the bounty payout.
If there's a 10m isk bounty on someone and you blow up their pod:
doing so against a player who has 100m sp should be worth more than against a player who only has 10m sp regardless of the implants in our heads.
But still totally include the implants... I never fly with a slave set or anything, but if I blow up someone who is, I want MOAR ISKIES! I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
276
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:48:00 -
[172] - Quote
Alice Katsuko wrote: (2) Kill rights should be lost if they are used to suspect-flag a player. The holder of the kill-rights should face a choice of either optioning his killright, or of holding it for later use. He should not be able to follow around the person who killed him and flag him as a suspect every fifteen minutes until he dies.
lol why the hell not? Your in highsec and you want pvp. This is like a pvp beacon that follows you around. FFS, are the people that gank for a profession this big a group of sissies?
I will tell what it will be like. It will be like being a pirate in high sec. Welcome to the club. Low-sec Best-sec |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
728
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:49:00 -
[173] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:In regards to the bounty payout for blowing up someone's pod - not only include in your calculation the cost of implants, but also the cost of the clone itself. Do this, CCP. Nothing Found |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
340
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:50:00 -
[174] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Goons hate someone. They place a 10 billion bounty on them. That person is flying a freighter, somewhere in high sec. The ship has a load of say, 700M, which is well below the usual safe threshold of 1 billion to make it profitable to gank a freighter. At current prices that ship is worth about 1.5 billion. That makes the payout of the bounty about 300M, plus the potential payoff of the payload of the freighter makes the gank profitable.
Or another scenario. Same victim wants to fly a Marauder in missions. Hull cost is about 800M. Now, you tack on T2 rigs, some faction stuff, and you can easily hit 2 billion in value. The bounty payout is 400M, and you can gank a mission boat in 0.5 space with 2-3 Tornados. Suddenly, the mission runner who usually is ignored by gankers, will ALWAYS be attacked.
With the existing system, the average ganker would say, look at a PvE BS and say, nah, since I am getting no payout, and unsure the nice modules will drop, so not worth it. Now, not only is that person flagged as they stroll through the gate, ALL gankers will pounce, since the bounty guarantees that at worst they will recover their losses, and the modules are gravy. Solution: Stop making terrible posts and maybe the big bad Goonies won't place bounties on your head. This is an excellent way for the playerbase to decide who is actually "bad" and it is completely awesome.
And you wonder why people post with alts. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
466
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:52:00 -
[175] - Quote
another idea, just like the one I suggested a few mins ago
(killrights being = personal wardec vs the pilot who "unrightfully" ganked you, lasting for 2-4 weeks, that could be sold/traded, either taking or giving isk for it, instead of something that can make him killable by everyone in high sec for 15 mins, and only working until he dies in a ship... this would work for the 2-4 weeks regardless of him dieing)
My other idea was that... aww crap I forgot what my other idea was now because I was doing the dishes... bah! but it was brilliant I tell you! Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
98
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:52:00 -
[176] - Quote
Good stuff.
Will bounty rewards continue to be taxed by any corp tax as they currently are? |
Lord Helghast
Dirty Old Bastards Nulli Secunda
117
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:52:00 -
[177] - Quote
I LOVE THIS NEW SYSTEM...
As a note, you do realize how much money will flow through this system right? i mean the Bounty on the Goons and friends is gonna be insane, and so wil the payouts lol Super kill ops will be even more wicked for the fleet attacking... especialy if the alliance has a big price on its head...
20% that seems low, i think it should be based more on the size of the open bounty, i mean if theres a 100b bounty on player and hes flying drakes it will take a trillion years to really make that all lol. But hes the most wanted person so instad i'm making 100% of the price of his ship and mods and pod.
Joe shmoe with 100m on him well ya hes not ranked that high so i only get 22% of his ships worth....
ONE OF THOSE FORESHADOWED ITEMS NEEDS TO BE DONE SOONER THAN LATER...
Restricting bounties!
If i put a bounty on Corp X, i dont want Corp Y there alt corp to be able to farm it. So let me designate "do not pay to" lists even a basic one.
And i agree with moraguth... include CLONE COST with the price of the pod payout. |
Ray Sharkk
Khanid Salvations
0
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:52:00 -
[178] - Quote
This is an awesome set of changes. It sounds like it will be ginormous fun to put bounties on people in the future.
For more epeening I'd like to see the amount of open kill rights on a character and in an aggregated fashion on all characters of a corp too. Like "Pirate Corp has 532 kill rights pending on corp members" and "John Doe has 12 kill rights against him". |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3424
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:52:00 -
[179] - Quote
Bubanni wrote: My other idea was that... aww crap I forgot what my other idea was now because I was doing the dishes... bah! but it was brilliant I tell you!
maybe your other idea was to get a dishwasher? Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1043
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:53:00 -
[180] - Quote
I seem to remember that right now a low sec kill generates a kill right. Is that correct? But now a low sec kill will not (except pods). http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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