First of all, the game's actually made in a somewhat smart way. They put a lot of mediocre refining stations everywhere but also (too many imo) better refine stations, expecially in key systems where they planned for people to go refine.
Example: Tuurianas is a "Minmatar pocket" system inside deep Caldari space, there are 2 stations owned by Minmatar NPC corps so the Minmatar guys doing missions to i.e. raise their Caldari standing to above terrible can go there and do both refining and manufacturing.

In order to get good refining, however, you also have to have standings, they come by doing lots and lots of L4 missions and / or COSMOS. This also involves a somewhat counter-productive process, that is you will get terrible standings with null sec NPCs and this can greatly reduce the convenience / will to go in null sec.

One of the big issues I had back in my 0.0 days was exactly this: I was -9 standings vs the very agent I wanted to use. I had an alt I used to grind standings with them, but many other people who don't have a legion of alts were impaired. Imo it would be a great boon if people could go in 0.0 and not have such demotivators, there's enough difficulties as is.

Another factor to take into account is that low sec too has lots of stations and they would be partly nerfed in case of hi sec refining nerf too, else guys with good pockets can just JF stuff in, refine, get out. Now, low sec needs a lot but not further nerfs.

Yes, but I thought that without ever increasing standing that you could get better refine rates in some stations in high sec than in null, just by traing the proper skills up.

Also,
Isn't it possible that through standing, and by refining in certian stations in high sec, that you can get perfect refine rates WITHOUT training all the proper skills to 5?

I started EVE 7 years ago. I am actually aware of how some things work. Aware enough to know that portions of what you wrote there is incorrect.

Specificly the need to run "lots and lots of lvl 4's and or cosmos" to get perfect refines in high sec.
That's wrong.

And I hardly doubt that there are many miners out there that are worried about there standing with a pirate faction. Or are they handing out lvl 4 and 5 mining missions in NPC null sec these days?

In both NPC stations and Minmatar outposts you can get perfect refining with less than perfect refining skills.

The station owner gets their taxes still, in both cases.

With NPC stations you can reduce the tax with standing, with player owned stations you need to talk to the owner.

With a POS, use a http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Medium_Intensive_Refining_Array and you are better off than either, if I'm reading the specs right.

You have always to look through the eyes of the new players, as they HAVE to be able to get to play the content.
Now, with 7 years under your belt sure it's easy to slap together a marauder and farm missions or toss some hundreds of millions and buy the various badges for COSMOS.
Try starting from zero and no game knowledge, I did not find the whole "go from L1 to L4" missions and grind lots of ISK so fast.
.

I do not believe that lower refining caps for people not in a player run corp, refinging in an NPC station, would have any negative impact on a NEW player.

New players don't get perfect refine rates.

Yes, but I thought that without ever increasing standing that you could get better refine rates in some stations in high sec than in null, just by traing the proper skills up.

Also,
Isn't it possible that through standing, and by refining in certian stations in high sec, that you can get perfect refine rates WITHOUT training all the proper skills to 5?

I know, but it means doing more than passively training a toon until you have perfect refining.

On the other hand, you can get perfect refining at a Minmatar outpost if you are the owner of it.
If Evelopedia is accurate, the owner of any particular outpost actually has the ability to make their station exceed highsec standards of industry in one area or another. Given that they are conquerable, I'm not sure how practical that ends up being with only one per system.

Maybe the fix to nullsec industry is simply to allow the planting of more outposts per system.

thinking double to triple the base number of research/industry slots, and the Minmatar station having a 45% base yield to start.

Even more than 45%. My 5J NPC null sec station has 50% base refine, which is on par with some hi sec stations.

People easily forget that all of this balancing discussion is fundamentally about the utterly gutted day-to-day gameplay throughout this game. Nullsec is currently running on a one to two year cycle of noob->cap pilot->eve end credits as you learn the game, lose or win a couple of wars, and then unsub because you've "seen it all". The worst part is that even this content is getting stale as the skills to null warfare become refined and the process routinized. This game desperately needs strong day-to-day, low maintenance, and accessible content to keep people interested, playing, and in space. The more people you have doing this, the more content there then is for everyone else in an exponentially progressing ladder.

Things like making non-hisec industry viable are super easy fixes that dump a shitton of content-generating activities into nullsec and lowsec. Nobody cares about pushing anyone anywhere; what matters is content for people where they already are, to make the most of the space they have.

Agreed, you can only import, fight and die so many times before it gets stale. What you want are the long sagas of a developing meta game as people do a simple set of activites more and more, always second, and third, guessing the other.

I think allowing people to build legit empires in null, self supporting and powerful, would bring a whole new life to the story EVE is. Drama is worth more when you are deeply invested.

Great point.

It's the first one I don't like.

I really feel that you should be in a player run corp, that has an office in that station, in order to get the perfect refine in an NPC station.

Nor do I think that that little change would have any drastic impact on anyone, especially new players who don't have all the skills trained anyways.

Why is being in a player corp so important compared to other factors here?

Why is being in a player corp so important compared to other factors here? Also why the office in station? Is this in place of or in addition to standing requirements?

CCP has noted that players that join player corps tend to stick around, play the game, and pay subscriptions more often than those that just stay in NPC corps. And I would wager that many of the successful NPC corp members who stick around are actually alts exploiting NPC corp wardec invulnerability for their trade/hauling characters.

Because an NPC corp can't be wardecked.

Forcing people to have a flag, plant a flag, and defend that flag if they want to access higher end gameplay (upper level industry) is a big part of content creation. It's the exact same problem with having no consequences to just safing up or running away in nullsec when reds come in your space. There need to be risks inherent in accessing higher end gameplay, and the greater the thing you want to build, the more people should be able to try and tear it down.

Right now you can build absolutely and absurdly enormous industrial chains all in the safety of hisec stations and with the anonymity of npc corps, which is utterly and completely broken, and against the very core of Eve gameplay as envisioned by the founders.

CCP has noted that players that join player corps tend to stick around, play the game, and pay subscriptions more often than those that just stay in NPC corps. And I would wager that many of the successful NPC corp members who stick around are actually alts exploiting NPC corp wardec invulnerability for their trade/hauling characters.

Things like making non-hisec industry viable are super easy fixes that dump a shitton of content-generating activities into nullsec and lowsec.

Which is precisely why null sec wants it.
Which is precisely what this fellow said: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1230077#post1230077

GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. But if you dont deserve it and we cant make you lose it, then we will ask CCP to nerf it.GÇ¥

I'm discussing why, generally, NPC corp membership matters in terms of accessing higher level gameplay. The fact that unlimited perfect refining is accessible in NPC stations by NPC corps is just another example of being able to access high end gameplay with no need to open yourself to risks or plant and defend a flag.

Also it should be remembered we are dealing with a large, indestructible, NPC planted flag. There is no need to defend it regardless of your corp.

Precisely, so hisec industry is currently one of the most glaring imbalances in the game. I'm glad we agree.

10/10 troll.

Risking a 3 billion isk ship for 50 million isk an hour is a phenomenal ratio, you really cant stretch it any thinner than that or people will say "**** this ****" and rage quit.