"High Sec need Fixing" = "I'm a **** poor PvPer and need CCP to force none PvP enabled players to line up so as that I can shoot them"

End of story, admit the truth

there was literally nothing in here except ranting assertions that properly balancing high sec would send costs through the roof

there's not even pretend logic I can knock holes in

you have to adapt correctly: you adapted by trying to replicate perfect safety

instead you need to adapt to deal with insecurity through superior force or avoid it through careful scouting, not by guarding the gates when nobody's trying to break in

I toodled a freighter around dek the other day, not by having scads of goons orbiting the gates but by scouting the systems and moving it when I could do it safely

Finally my favourite,
16)IGÇÖll quit if you nerf High Sec, so will many others, the game will crash and CCP will go bankrupt!

-Firstly if you are a person who will rage quit when they donGÇÖt get what they want how long will you stay in the game for anyway? YouGÇÖre probably not a legacy player.

-Secondly people subscribe to EVE because it is awesome, and itGÇÖs gameplay makes it into the gaming press because of itGÇÖs awesomeness. This is what CCP need to protect for the long term health of the game and overall profitability, not pandering to an irrational few.

I think this is most of the arguments, though IGÇÖve probably missed a few.

TL;DR, High Sec may need to be nerfed in the future, as it is too rewarding for how risky it is. The evidence of this is that 71% of players choose to live there when it is 1/7th of the space in the game. The arguments that this is impossible arenGÇÖt very strong.

Less than 5% of total ship production (measured by volume of mineral consumption) so not that huge, sorry. And because of how bad nullsec industry is, doing it is a huge kick in the balls. Supercaps are built in nullsec only because they have to be, caps are only built in nullsec by the most masochistic.


Which we import to our space because importing finished hulls is the only viable way to do it, seeing as industry in nullsec sucks.


I'm not even going to bother replying to the rest of your crackpot tinfoil.

I can agree with that. However I was few months old (you know, my risk FEAR brought me to gate camping in low first, null later) and was a grunt. So orders came and I executed them.

5% of all mineral consumption huh?
A good lawyer never asks a question unless he already knows the answer.

I am not a good lawyer.
Can you provide your source of that fact of 5% consumption?

in addition to fuel and r8/r32 moon minerals which are regional and therefore 3/4ths will be absolutely unavalible, there is no reasonable source of lowend materials in 0.0

now granted, you're going to say something dumb like "but there are veldspar rocks hyuk hyuk" but nobody is going to do that because a)everything else in 0.0 pays better than mining veldspar and b)if you want to mine veldspar you can do it in near-perfect safety in a 1.0 system

therefore, nobody will do it. and nobody ever has, in like a decade

previously you could live in the drone regions: as the only 0.0 with trit, it was unsuprisingly the only one with significant industry

doesn't exist, now nowhere in 0.0 has trit

Ok, but that still isn't a valid reason to extrapolate how to balance null from this experience. If you don't live in null, you're going to be making your suggestions based on errors like this anyone who lived in null would instantly spot.

lets lay out some groundrules first once he sources it you will admit you were wrong and change your position in a meaningful way rather than just suddenly claim it doesn't matter and you're still right for a different reason, correct?

there was literally nothing in here except ranting assertions that properly balancing high sec would send costs through the roof

there's not even pretend logic I can knock holes in

Ah, so it's about convenience now.

I wondered when risk/reward was going to die.

So all materials are available in null, which was my understanding. Your confident insistence that they weren't suggested that I'd missed something but that turns out not to be the case. Rather it's the fact that while nobody may be producing them in null, that's result of rational choice as opposed to physical impossibility. Do I understand that much correctly?

(OK, more like Don Quixote attacking a windmill, because this fight is already lost, null sec has won).

What is the problem here?
You have an opportunity to make one of the champions of high sec defending against the null sec zealotry (OK, more like Don Quixote attacking a windmill, because this fight is already lost, null sec has won), and you want "ground rules"?

Just post your source.

Yes, it is a rant. It was a rant because this is an argument that comes up with stupid regularity by players who do not understand the High Sec game and as a consequence want CCP to change things in their favour.

a)everything else in 0.0 pays better than mining veldspar

and b)if you want to mine veldspar you can do it in near-perfect safety in a 1.0 systemt

Risk:reward and convenience are by no means incompatible concepts.

So mining for trit isn't seen as a means to an end (ie local null sec industry) and the accrual of wealth by mining high end ores is?
...
Are you saying you are too risk averse to mine for trit in 0.0?

The risk is the risk of not being able to play for whatever reason.
The reward is getting to play the game.

Wait what? Did something change this weekend? Did a Dev say something?

Right now, since the goon propagandist just does not seem willing to provide his source of 5% of all null sec mineral consumption goes into supercaps, I am going to go get my hair cut.

so basically you can't read, and are masking you being wrong with weasel phrasing

any perticular region will not have 3/4ths of fuel types and 3/4ths of regional moon mins, giving it an absolute importation need. the fuel and moon mins will not exist period

when it comes to lowends as a practical matter they do not exist in null. this is because they will never be produced under the current system rather than it being absolutely impossible to produce but that's a dumb you put in to avoid dealing with the reality rather than anything people actually looking at the scenario care about

But that's all in null, correct? The fact that you/yours don't control all the materials you want is something all together different. In short, you aren't forced to import them from higsec.

I believe controlling resources is supposed to be one of the drivers of conflict in null. No?

I will email you.
I still owe you that email.

Right now, since the goon propagandist just does not seem willing to provide his source of 5% of all null sec mineral consumption goes into supercaps, I am going to go get my hair cut.

Yes, a dumb thing like "as a practical matter". It just once again means that you don't have to import from highsec. That's all.

The ease of obtaining materials from high is at least some small factor in the unwillingness ("practical matter") to extract/produce in null. Yes? I assume so because of the calls to make that production less attractive/profitable, but I figured I'd better check.

But that's all in null, correct? The fact that you/yours don't control all the materials you want is something all together different. In short, you aren't forced to import them from higsec.

I believe controlling resources is supposed to be one of the drivers of conflict in null. No?

Yes, a dumb thing like "as a practical matter". It just once again means that you don't have to import from highsec. That's all.

The ease of obtaining materials from high is at least some small factor in the unwillingness ("practical matter") to extract/produce in null. Yes? I assume so because of the calls to make that production less attractive/profitable, but I figured I'd better check.