E: I should add social interaction (diplomacy) in general is one of the challenges 0.0 industrialists are forced to grapple with that highsec industrialists can completely ignore. Yet the 0.0 industrialist gets virtually no advantage for doing so. If anything this reason alone is enough to warrant a nerf to the entirety of highsec's industrial capabilities.

Because I was alone in there, had nobody with me to talk with, I did not have two chats and IRC where to talk about those things, there were no others applying for the same positions and talking with me.

If you had 5 minutes a day to play the game for a year+ like I had, you'd have created a fat zero.
I quit my friends because I felt like a dead weight on them even if they never asked me to leave.

But hey, you know everything about everybody's life, don't you?

For the past 2 1/2 years, I have been teaching goons in a jabber channel all they could learn about EVE markets, the economy, and how to manipulate, speculate. Even the ones that didn't learn anything would profit greatly by just buying and selling when told. For all of this effort, I have only one other person like myself to show for it, (Mynnna/Corestwo). Then another handful of guys who have specific areas of expertise (Dramaticus), or a financial role(Weaselior).

yeah you keep saying "i would never put that much money at risk" for why 0.0 industry can never take off so that's nonsense, your entire argument is predicated on all potential 0.0 industrialists being as risk averse as you

being willing to lose a t1 frig doesn't suddenly make you not risk averse it just means that there is a certain level of isk loss that is too minimal to care about

My corp did not make large use of T1 frigs, nor of fleets of Drakes.

i see you used [ship too small to care about its loss that is not a t1 frig or drake] instead, which is relevant to the point of risking amounts of assets that would hurt to lose because...

people posting on the side of sanity.

Stop.
You know far better than many not to get trapped trying to justify anything to the trolls.

hurricanes and cyclones insured nearly perfectly back then

plus you apparently got cold feet about even those losses pronto

I have not read the rest of this thread, as I hear it is a bad one. However, I was linked to this post and it struck me as similar enough to myself to reply.

For whatever reason, I was the only one of my kind within goons. There were other rich goons before me, but they were simply rich, or EFFORT. I abhor effort so tend to only focus on ISK:EFFORT or making markets, not reacting to them.

For the past 2 1/2 years, I have been teaching goons in a jabber channel all they could learn about EVE markets, the economy, and how to manipulate, speculate. Even the ones that didn't learn anything would profit greatly by just buying and selling when told. For all of this effort, I have only one other person like myself to show for it, (Mynnna/Corestwo). Then another handful of guys who have specific areas of expertise (Dramaticus), or a financial role(Weaselior).

So starting alone, and creating a cabal of guys that can move the EVE economy at will. With a personality. type that doesn't lend itself to making friends. The EVE sandbox is complex enough now to work magic in gaming. But you need help to do so.

Learn to make friends.

In theory the ability to build supercaps is a pretty big advantage. Whether the market conditions at any given point support that theory is obviously another question.

Highsec industrialists can't even build dreads, though, so saying that there is no advantage to doing industry outside highsec is ignoring a few limitations of highsec industry.

There's certainly no advantage to building things that *can* be built in highsec in nullsec as things currently stand, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing given the current shape of the game. Changing it so that nullsec industry was advantaged in every respect would be a quite dramatic change, and I'm not even sure that it is really possible.

13) This is just about some players trying to force everyone to play like them.

"Nerf him because I'm better than he is" is the worst argument for a change to the game, and that's essentially what you are saying.

Access to features is a benefit. Some features cost more than others. The cost of being able to build supercapital ships in a system includes having crap-all other industry there. Maybe that will change with the POS updates. Maybe it won't, but highsec industry won't get the kind of nerf you want, nor have you made a convincing case as to why it should.

Anyway, quit picking on high sec ..it's not the reasons for your woes.

plus people who have trouble understanding the concept of risk/reward are not the focus group we use when trying to tell if our arguments are convincing

Could you not have just combined those four posts into one?

for example you might pick the ceo and cfo of an insanely tech-rich alliance that repeatedly agitated for a tech nerf

congrats this is literally a defense of any possible feature set

I'll say it again the fact that nullsec industrialists require social interaction (diplomacy) to operate at all is a good reason to warrant a nerf to the entirety of highsec's industrial capabilities.

Stop.
You know far better than many not to get trapped trying to justify anything to the trolls.

I know you are trying to fight the good fight, as I have also.
But you are letting the designated attack guys from the propaganda wing get under your skin.
Don't.

What you should do is get all your indy buddies from the S&I and MD forums to start petitioning CCP and screaming blue murder about what goons and the rest of the null sec zealots have planned for high sec industry.

Frankly, I think it is a lost cause, as the pattern over the last year is "goon-led propaganda campaign against a high sec mechanic, 6 months later CCP hammers said high sec mechanic", and high sec industry is the next thing in their sights.

But you may still hold out some hope that the upcoming carnage can be stopped. If that is true, ignore the forums and petition CCP directly, or if you want to fight the propaganda war, you are going to need a LOT more people posting on the side of sanity.