The problem with "keeping this thread on topic" is that NBSI isn't causing any of the major issues which are plaguing nullsec. Not a single one of them.

My point in this debate is that if an emphasis were placed on developing tools and mechanics that were friendly and useful for political administration styles other than NBSI, that would allow policies like NRDS or other variations to operate as efficiently as NBSI does, then power groups could make some interesting decisions on how they want to run their Sov.

They could very well choose to keep things as NBSI (and it will likely always be a popular option), but the ability to easily choose another path would make things a lot more interesting all around, and (somewhat ironically) might encourage more conflict due to differing political beliefs.

And that's always a good thing.

NBSI isn't what's depopulated nullsec, or has "caused nullsec to fail", no matter how much you or Murk tries to fob it off as the cause.

Sure it does. It causes the "I can't rat in upgraded space for free without contributing anything towards keeping space and without being chased out by those who do contribute" problem.

Sure it does. It causes the "I can't rat in upgraded space for free without contributing anything towards keeping space and without being chased out by those who do contribute" problem.

My point in this debate is that if an emphasis were placed on developing tools and mechanics that were friendly and useful for political administration styles other than NBSI, that would allow policies like NRDS or other variations to operate as efficiently as NBSI does, then power groups could make some interesting decisions on how they want to run their Sov.

They could very well choose to keep things as NBSI (and it will likely always be a popular option), but the ability to easily choose another path would make things a lot more interesting all around, and (somewhat ironically) might encourage more conflict due to differing political beliefs.

And that's always a good thing.

People suggest introducing new things like treaties and "light blue" allies and all you can produce is a trite loltastic one liner that was the same in 2009 and 2010.

Another with ideology and preconcepts in the head.

People suggest introducing new things like treaties and "light blue" allies and all you can produce is a trite loltastic one liner that was the same in 2009 and 2010.

I mean, some people are REALLY REALLY trying to support you or sympathise but hey, it's like trying to help the nice guy who keeps kicking you in the jewels as "feedback".

NBSI Nullsec = Fail

NBSI is what?

Would you go mining in HS without CONCORD? Missioning? Run a Freighter around? Put up a POS?

Other PvP games make you do everything in a PvP location, it's not like it's something absurd and never heard of.
It'd just involve patching in mechanics to allow people to be more situation aware. I.e. a radar to detect inbound hostiles and similar.

Also, putting up a POS is done in low sec as is. Missioning too, I even have done low sec missioning in solo for a while in that cluster near Bei.

EVE also makes you do everything in a PvP location.


I didn't say low-sec (where missions have gates to decloak people coming at you in a bomber). I said High Sec, with its high population (all neutral), without CONCORD.

Still interested in hearing how the mechanics would be changed to make NRDS or some variant or whatever treaty system which works in a non-NBSI manner not suck to live with.

It's improper. Hi sec works *as is* with the neuts because of Concord.

I believe that question's been asked numerous times, with no real answer, along with "how". vOv

And you've just made my argument for me. NRDS in areas without CONCORD is an idiotic policy (NRDS in areas with CONCORD is, ofc, mandatory). No game mechanical changes will ever change this.

Which is why I keep getting confused between this thread and the "buff small groups thread" in which the exact same dynamic exists.

You made your arguments before you starting posting on this thread. You keep swinging the NRDS like it's something I ever claimed should be implemented.

Also, the "No game mechanical changes will ever change this" is another argument made within your self defined box.

There is always that true sandbox game called RL which EvE often attempts to model, where empires and nations exist and "neuts" come and go. They are somehow related to "light blue" which IS something I talked about (unlike the NRDS).


Anyway I don't even know why this thread exist. It's not like you'd even want to try creating a realistic nation.
Too folded over yourselves to be able to imagine not being just a closed ended PvP corp who want to settle their corpies and that's it.

You made your arguments before you starting posting on this thread. You keep swinging the NRDS like it's something I ever claimed should be implemented.

Also, the "No game mechanical changes will ever change this" is another argument made within your self defined box.

There is always that true sandbox game called RL which EvE often attempts to model, where empires and nations exist and "neuts" come and go. They are somehow related to "light blue" which IS something I talked about (unlike the NRDS).


Anyway I don't even know why this thread exist. It's not like you'd even want to try creating a realistic nation.
Too folded over yourselves to be able to imagine not being just a closed ended PvP corp who want to settle their corpies and that's it.

>NPC Space
Hold on now and this about this for a second. Every NPC Null sector entails multiple corps multiple alliances each representing multiple nations. Now if there be NPC lowsec. and Null sec. POLICE STATIONS in (combat engineered) orbit within their awesome sector, they wouldn't be fighting even the reds in those areas unless they're really defending themselves from the greater good. Think about it. We on 2 here.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=190300&p=2

You made your arguments before you starting posting on this thread. You keep swinging the NRDS like it's something I ever claimed should be implemented.

Also, the "No game mechanical changes will ever change this" is another argument made within your self defined box.

There is always that true sandbox game called RL which EvE often attempts to model, where empires and nations exist and "neuts" come and go. They are somehow related to "light blue" which IS something I talked about (unlike the NRDS).


Anyway I don't even know why this thread exist. It's not like you'd even want to try creating a realistic nation.
Too folded over yourselves to be able to imagine not being just a closed ended PvP corp who want to settle their corpies and that's it.

General discussion, never really that original.

At least it's general.