There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.

There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space.

NRDS, only works if your space is such rubbish that nobody wants it to begin with. Example: CVA, had Providence for a long time till Dominion came along and made the anoms that spawned with upgraded space the same no mater the sec status. They then were promptly kicked out, untill CCP redid the anoms to follow sec status, and CVA retook Providence, because the space ceased to be "worth it" to hold onto.

Eh, IIRC the primary motivator for them getting booted from their space was them making some ******** political decisions. Everyone likes CVA holding space because it's a good way to keep your PVPers entertained.

-Liang

NRDS does not work because nothing prevents me from rolling a 5 day cyno hero and blaping you while you rat there, like awoxing but with no effort. No one would live there due to the lack of protection while doing pve.

Also why should you or anyone else enjoy the benefit of our space when you did nothing to take it and do nothing to help defend it.

There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.

No. It is because of the space bildenbergs.

From what I remember, the bad political desisions would have been seen as CVA being terrible roleplaying scrubs, and maybe a little more roaming attention being paid to them. With Dominion poping up Havens and Sanctums in every system at the time, it suddenly became worth it to kick them out and use the space to farm anoms, rather than deal with a minor nuisance.

great success

If it ain't blue, shoot it. Corpmates are green and fleet members are purple...

-Liang

So if your color blind is it ok just to shoot everything? Makes things a whole lot simpler.

You could not be more hilariously far from the truth...

Enlighten us, oh wise one.

Eh, IIRC the primary motivator for them getting booted from their space was them making some ******** political decisions. Everyone likes CVA holding space because it's a good way to keep your PVPers entertained.

Enlighten us, oh wise one.

"Truesec, what is it?"

The bad political decision, IIRC, was trying to take a station from -A- while they were otherwise occupied fighting Goons. -A- took exception to the attempt and U'K helped push CVA out of Providence. IIRC -A- and U'K had some fun with it and roleplayed it up with CVA. CVA put up a good couple of fights in the beginning (and by good fight I mean massive bloodbath where U'K and -A- took no losses), but after only a few it became a tedious affair of knocking over a million stations.

You don't talk back to -A-?

Citing providence as some kind of successful proof that NRDS is a good thing is kinda dumb. CVA holds providence because it's worthless space. Much the same reason IRC has managed to hold onto it's space for so long. '

-Liang

I didn't say that, but I could have.

-Liang

You could say many things.

-Liang

-A- took no losses)

Wait...
What?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/D-GTMI_%28Battle_of%29

It was one of the first big cap battles post-Dominion release. nobody realized how bad it would suck until the entire CVA cap fleet timed out from server while SoCo killed them. such a big fiasco they made a wiki page about it

With the recent demise of Goonswarm as a functional enemy, AAA was free to focus on continuing their offensive,

Wait...
What?

Corpies are green, allies are blue.
If he's orange, red or neutral,
He's here to kill you. :)

People sometimes forget how easy it is for a neutral to be an enemy cyno alt or spy.

Easy way to make NRDS the way to go would be to allow the Sov holder collect a 10-20% tax on all bounties claimed in the areas controlled by them regardless of who killed the rat. The more Neuts they have rattin in their space, the more income they get.

The battle of D-GTMI seems to have been a few battleships for 103 dreads, 23 carriers, and hundreds of support... I'd call that "no losses".

-Liang

There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.

yeah come on down
NRDS'll float down here
everything floats down here...

I'd imagine in a strange quirk of role reversal that the pure amount of blueballing that is going on at the moment that NBSI has actually become NRDS.

There is a reason why NBSI is the norm.

Did anyone around ever thought if this wasn't one of the reasons why null is as it stands?
Just asking, never thought about this in the large scheme of things, just like everyone else I expect awoxing cynos etc but would be interested to know the opinion of the older players about this, was null better and populated back then?

There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern.

There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space.

Its friday, so must be a 'Goons suck because they shoot everybody' day, tomorrow will be the 'Goons suck because they blue everybody' day.

How about "Goons just suck" that way we cover everyday?

Nullbears always whine how they want more players to come there, but at the end of the day all they really want is more serfs to make their e-peens feel bigger and more baby seals to club. So trying to get them to make any kind of positive change to nullsec is never going to happen. They are incapable of thinking in that way. They only understand negative change, hence it's all just a "nerf hisec" mantra for them.

^^^ Has never heard of the concepts of "power creep" or "zero-sum game"

Now, now, while we may be fat, we're not so desperate for burgers that we literally suck them down. We do chew them a bit first.

Now that I just can't believe. I'm gonna need video proof of this "chewing" you claim Goons engage in.

Its friday, so must be a 'Goons suck because they shoot everybody' day, tomorrow will be the 'Goons suck because they blue everybody' day.

There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.

There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.

Why would I then go to nullsec when I could make a 1 man shell company and farm low sec and get 100% of my rat bounty for myself?

The point being, making it in the financial intrest for the sov holding organization to allow nuets to roam their space

you know, bring null sec out of the "dark ages", .

So NRDS doesn't work and NBSI is boring, is that the general consensus then?

How?


We've spent considerable amounts of time and energy to take that space. Why should we just let neuts, which would predominantly consist of hostile people hellbent on making our ships blow up, "roam around"? How would that even remotely "bring nullsec out of the 'dark ages'"? What are these "dark ages"?

So NRDS doesn't work and NBSI is boring, is that the general consensus then?

How?


We've spent considerable amounts of time and energy to take that space. Why should we just let neuts, which would predominantly consist of hostile people hellbent on making our ships blow up, "roam around"? How would that even remotely "bring nullsec out of the 'dark ages'"? What are these "dark ages"?

Presumably he lives in a 21st century country that doesn't require people to "set standings" with their equivalent of the INS before entering the country to work.

Is there a difference between "Not Blue Shoot It" and "Not Red Do Shoot"?

NRDS is nice in theory, but its flaws in practice appear to be covered in this thread.

So on a slight tangent. Has anyone experimented with a foreigners quarter like setup? Basically a system or two that is NRDS and accessible from elswewhere, but if you wander out you get shot? The most obvious issue being that even on a limited basis the flaws of NRDS would be manifest and you would have to just go back to NBSI.

As in real life if someone you don't know comes to your house and tries to use your garage you shoot them in the face regardless of their intent.

That doesn't exactly translate to countries, otherwise there would be a lot of dead "illegal aliens" in some countries.

Treaties was a game design that was going to allow for this.

IE: You are blue in some systems, but show up red if you enter systems you are not supposed to be in, such as the sov holders fleet yards systems.

NRDS is nice in theory, but its flaws in practice appear to be covered in this thread.

So on a slight tangent. Has anyone experimented with a foreigners quarter like setup? Basically a system or two that is NRDS and accessible from elswewhere, but if you wander out you get shot? The most obvious issue being that even on a limited basis the flaws of NRDS would be manifest and you would have to just go back to NBSI.

As in real life if someone you don't know comes to your house and tries to use your garage you shoot them in the face regardless of their intent.

Actually if you use lethal force in most countries, even if someone is on your property, you must still prove that you felt your life was in danger or that you were facing imminent harm. In other words if some kid walks into your garage off the street, even if he attempts to swipe your hub caps, if he is unarmed you're going to be in serious trouble if you put a bullet in him.

Which is why I'm glad I live in Texas (where the legal assumption is that someone entering your home means to do you harm, which then allows for legal use of force, up to and including Deadly Force). None of that pansy "duty to retreat" crap.

Texas is a lot like EVE, hell it might be why I like EVE

NRDS works just fine.

What the hell happened to treaties anyways?

I was so looking forward to breaking as many treaties as my alliance could sign :) .

Actually NRDS (or some variation on it) could work but it would require some basic game mechanic changes/additions.

NRDS doesn't scale and NBSI is an excuse for some people to not move into nullsec. They could easily move into NPC nullsec if they wanted, and start practicing NRDS all they want, or they can move to CVA space and play with likeminded people. They'll quickly end up basically treating NRDS as NBSI just because it makes life so much easier.

But noooooooo.

Is there a difference between "Not Blue Shoot It" and "Not Red Do Shoot"?

Actually if you use lethal force in most civilized nations, even if someone is on your property, you must still prove that you felt your life was in danger or that you were facing imminent harm. In other words if some kid walks into your garage off the street, even if he attempts to swipe your hub caps, if he is unarmed you're going to be in serious trouble if you put a bullet in him.

I did not find NPC nullsec so much NRDS tbh. It's way more NBSI than sov nullsec ever hopes to be.

I did not find NPC nullsec so much NRDS tbh. It's way more NBSI than sov nullsec ever hopes to be.

yes, because every NRDS alliance is effectively NBSI because they set every NBSI group in existence red

Doesn't stop them from trying to practice NRDS. As I said, they'll quickly endup basically treating their NRDS as NBSI simply because it makes life so much easier.

You're asking for an automated secure transaction to rent space (and become blue), and you're offering tax revenue incentives to the SOV holder to open their gates.

Diplo's have a lot of work on their plate, but giving up control over who is blue, that's not something they'll want to let go of. If any spy can pay a fee and become blue, with no API check and no interview, that's worse than NRDS.

And offering taxes to sov holders, that's the same as offering tax breaks for carebears to go into lowsec. They don't need your piddly taxes, and they don't need more people in their area, they're perfectly fine the way they are. I'd be willing to bet they'll all set the tax to 100% just to drive the point home that they don't need you there.

Everyone who uses NBSI is fine with it, and they don't need more people crowding their areas.

NRDS sounds like a really cool gimmick to abuse to set-up some kind of honeypot where a lot of things get blown up.

Nullbears always whine how they want more players to come there, but at the end of the day all they really want is more serfs to make their e-peens feel bigger and more baby seals to club. So trying to get them to make any kind of positive change to nullsec is never going to happen. They are incapable of thinking in that way. They only understand negative change, hence it's all just a "nerf hisec" mantra for them.

NRDS sounds like a really cool gimmick to abuse to set-up some kind of honeypot where a lot of things get blown up.

You know the only time I've ever seen this sentiment expressed is by whiny losers who couldn't actually hack it in null . Why on earth (or space) would we want more people in null? More people means more risk, more potential awoxers, more spies, more competition for rats and resources, it means more disruptions to our isk making activities.

So, it would be fair to say you want them to get off your lawn?

Long rant about other people

So the case was made for NRDS.

People rushed in making the case for NBSI.

So the case was made for NRDS.

People rushed in making the case for NBSI.


NRDS is a failure, say those who shoot anything that is not blue.


So, how's that empty and boring nullsec working out for ya?

So the case was made for NRDS.

People rushed in making the case for NBSI.


NRDS is a failure, say those who shoot anything that is not blue.


So, how's that empty and boring nullsec working out for ya?

"Man nullsec would be so much better if you fought for space so everyone else could use it"

Rocks and glass houses.
The only alliance to come out of the NC collapse with their SOV was Lawn.

Fine as everyone that actually lives in null knows its not empty.

This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.

This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.

As opposed to nullsec, which got thoroughly pissed on fun-wise around dominion and has been hit with nerfbat after nerfbat to the point where most people spend their off-PVP time in hisec, lowsec, WHs etc instead?

Yeah, about that...

So.forgive any randomness but I'm ill and full of cough medicine but I believe I have had an epiphany. Thereason that nbsinullseccers are so anti social is so they can make isk in safety so they can pvp.

If they want hIgh sec income nerved then in the interest of games balance they should run a more open and welcoming system. But eve was never designed to be balanced so people should ALL htfu and do whatever makes the game fun for them if they can

I blame it on the same cry babies who come up with such brilliance as suggesting that the way to fix null is to emulate people who chose to role play racists.

NRDS - Takes self control and has lots of Issues cause you have to constantly update standings which means alot of micro management and keeping people in line and flat out it can get ugly.

NBSI - Is simple for those who don't want to think or are not capable of it, it is also a lot simpler to maintain and you don't have to micro manage it.

Both have good points and bad.

So.forgive any randomness but I'm ill and full of cough medicine but I believe I have had an epiphany. Thereason that nbsinullseccers are so anti social is so they can make isk in safety so they can pvp. The reason they want highsec nerved is so that they are the only ones with this advantage having worked for it.
If they want hIgh sec income nerved then in the interest of games balance they should run a more open and welcoming system.
But eve was never designed to be balanced so people should ALL htfu and do whatever makes the game fun for them if they can

Look at the map, figure out which percentage of it has >10 people in it.


As opposed to nullsec, which got thoroughly pissed on fun-wise around dominion and has been hit with nerfbat after nerfbat to the point where most people spend their off-PVP time in hisec, lowsec, WHs etc instead?

Yeah, about that...

I suggest getting some actual experience of 0.0 before making huge generalisations about it.

Here is something you may not have thought of.

Lets say someone likes your NRDS space and decides they want your space for their own group. Their group can get safely into your space without a single shot fired because of NRDS. Their group will only open fire once they are setup to do the most damage as quickly as possible. Once they are established and shooting everything that moves in your space, your group is going to have a tougher time getting them out of your space.

NRDS policy gets the people following that policy killed. This is the same no matter if its Null or Low.

Well if you **** up a section of the sandbox, people will stay away from that section. And yet you wonder why no one wants to roll around in it with you?

That's the flaw to NBSI.
Everyone is your enemy, even when they aren't. I don't need to be NBSI. I don't need to look for a fight behind every gate. I can let the neut warp away. I still get more fights than I can handle. Go figure.

So thats why you want to nerf Hisec.....

If you can think up ways to make nullsec capable of doing bottom up financing so alliances would have a vested interest in making sure its own space was used in preference to hisec, which was implementable without ruining the economy or anything similar, cough it up.

Again with the baseless snipes.
That's what got you in to this argument. Good thing those Lawn guys before you weren't so eager to shitpost on GD or you wouldn't have any space to be bragging about.

Get back on the porch, Son.

No dude. im just pointing at what is wrong with null.

Instead of total rework of null mechanic, nullbears demand nerf to hisec.

im just saying that null is totaly FUBAR, and no nerf to hisec make it better.

1day-spyalts, super-blobs, NBSI etc, thats the problem of null, because it is best way of current mechanics.

Citing providence as some kind of successful proof that NRDS is a good thing is kinda dumb. CVA holds providence because it's worthless space. Much the same reason IRC has managed to hold onto it's space for so long. '

-Liang

Still waiting on some figures on how much null wants to see high sec 'balanced'. If the usual suspects are so fast to point and scream that something is not balanced, why don't you specify how it can be. Give us some figures.

NBSI is an everyone blue train
NRDS is an everyone red train

The opposite of the opposite

Still waiting on some figures on how much null wants to see high sec 'balanced'. If the usual suspects are so fast to point and scream that something is not balanced, why don't you specify how it can be. Give us some figures.

Fine as everyone that actually lives in null knows its not empty.

I live there for months at a time. It's empty. Yeah, that's right, I trespass until my hold is full of phatloot.

Nobody except an occasional ratter in a carrier, or some mercs on the move. Once went three weeks without seeing another ship.

NPC nullsec tends to have more traffic.

See, even Herzog here managed to eke out an existence in nullsec, as some sort of vermin feeding off the detritus and waste of nullsec civilizations. Drinking deep from the proverbial 0.0 ditchwater in silence, scurrying into a hideyhole at the slightest provocation, Herzog's life is a sad, solitary one of fear and alienation. But it proves the tenacity and adaptability of the capsuleer animal, where a creature can survive, even thrive, within the sewers of Esoteria.

Just one of many wonders... of our nullsec ecosystem.

I live there for months at a time. It's empty. Yeah, that's right, I trespass until my hold is full of phatloot.

Nobody except an occasional ratter in a carrier, or some mercs on the move. Once went three weeks without seeing another ship.

NPC nullsec tends to have more traffic.

See, even Herzog here managed to eke out an existence in nullsec, as some sort of vermin feeding off the detritus and waste of nullsec civilizations. Drinking deep from the proverbial 0.0 ditchwater in silence, scurrying into a hideyhole at the slightest provocation, Herzog's life is a sad, solitary one of fear and alienation. But it proves the tenacity and adaptability of the capsuleer animal, where a creature can survive, even thrive, within the sewers of Esoteria.

Just one of many wonders... of our nullsec ecosystem.

I choked on my beer when i read this.

Why should we allow in scrubs/freeloaders who are only there to reap the reward or compete for resources.

So thats why you want to nerf Hisec.....

I like that we go through 110 page thread with the majority of people except a few who wanted no changes at all, to come to a good balance of nerfing NPC facilities in favour of Player owned structures.

And the next thread goes straight back to your nerfing Hi-sec.

WTF

It's the current meme and "program". Look at the Gospel blog for anticipations about the next, exciting news!

Well it took you until around page 85 to stop doing it yourself so...

Corpies are green, allies are blue.
If he's orange, red or neutral,
He's here to kill you. :)

Here is something you may not have thought of.

Lets say someone likes your NRDS space and decides they want your space for their own group. Their group can get safely into your space without a single shot fired because of NRDS. Their group will only open fire once they are setup to do the most damage as quickly as possible. Once they are established and shooting everything that moves in your space, your group is going to have a tougher time getting them out of your space.

NRDS policy gets the people following that policy killed. This is the same no matter if its Null or Low.

You're asking for an automated secure transaction to rent space (and become blue), and you're offering tax revenue incentives to the SOV holder to open their gates.

Diplo's have a lot of work on their plate, but giving up control over who is blue, that's not something they'll want to let go of. If any spy can pay a fee and become blue, with no API check and no interview, that's worse than NRDS.

And offering taxes to sov holders, that's the same as offering tax breaks for carebears to go into lowsec. They don't need your piddly taxes, and they don't need more people in their area, they're perfectly fine the way they are. I'd be willing to bet they'll all set the tax to 100% just to drive the point home that they don't need you there.

Everyone who uses NBSI is fine with it, and they don't need more people crowding their areas.

You know the only time I've ever seen this sentiment expressed is by whiny losers who couldn't actually hack it in null . Why on earth (or space) would we want more people in null? More people means more risk, more potential awoxers, more spies, more competition for rats and resources, it means more disruptions to our isk making activities.

Unless we're deployed I'm not comfortable in any system where the population won't fit my local window without scrolling. The whole point of taking and holding SOV the reward for sitting in all those blobs people like to whine about, grinding all those structures and suffering through Boat stories is we get a bit of space that is our own (as long as we can defend it) to exploit to improve our game experience by letting us accumulate assets that we can then use to turn around and kick someone's teeth in away from our space.

We don't want more people out here and we most certainly aren't interested in the sort of anti-social mouth breathers who can't manage the minimal social graces required to join a corporation.

You and the OP are trying to address a problem that doesn't exist. NBSI isn't the default state because the mean ole null dictators forced it on everyone. It's the default state because it's the best policy. In EVE combat, hell in combat period, the advantage generally goes to the aggressor.

NRDS gives the advantage to the outsider in that the local resident is forced to wait until the outsider takes an aggressive action before being able to react. In most cases in this game that's pretty much the end of the fight as the outsider is unlikely to take the initial aggressive action unless they are reasonably assured of success.

NBSI levels the playing field in that both parties have equal opportunity to take aggressive action first. The outsider can't just get into optimal scan your ship and then decide whether or not to fight you based on how certain they are of victory.

NBSI makes it much easier to know friend from foe, if they aren't a friend they are automatically a foe.

Personally I think there are two types of people who avoid null sec, the anti-social unlikable and those who are misinformed (or perhaps victimized by a poor alliance in the past) about what life in SOV null is all about.

[quote=Ocih][quote=Herzog Wolfhammer]
I seriously have no idea what you are on. But it must be some potent herb because your posts make zero sense.

My argument is simple. NRDS gives all the initiative and combat advantage to outsiders rather than those who live in the space, While NBSI gives the locals a even shot at shooting first. That's why NRDS is fail and will never see widespread adoption outside of a group of people who were stupid enough to think that it would be a great basis for an alliance premised on racial supremacy (CVA) in fact back in my naive newbie days when I still had some thoughts about E-Honor I had actually looked at and dismissed CVA as an option because of the cognitive dissonance of a bunch of "racists" (yeah I know role-playing) and anti-piracy.

As far as it being a baseless snipe, I disagree. The OP has the exact same mindset as those who foolishly think that nerfing highsec will somehow drive people to low/null. If you were actually familiar with my posting history you'd know that I was never one to support such foolishness. It's that mindset that thinks that you can force someone to do something they find unpleasant for enjoyment.

The attitude that if one can't "hack it" at something in the game, that if others somehow manage to do something they can't then the game should be changed to accommodate their inadequacies. Be it the low sec gate camper crying because his fail crew couldn't kill a freighter in less than the minute it took it to despawn after the pilot discoed on a gate jump or the pirate crying about how level-4s should be moved to low sec so they could get access to those shinny mission ships (as if people would be taking their blinged out mission boats into low sec to get ganked) or the "small fleet" elite PVPer crying about blobs and NAPs/NIPs because he can only find fleets bigger than his own. The common thread is someone who is asking for a solution to a problem that doesn't actually exist. and who wants a special accommodation to make their own lives easier in by making someone else's more difficult.

You are trying to make this into a Null vs Highsec thread, but it's not. It's a smart people who understand the game and how it works vs whiny dimwits who can't figure out how to work within the existing system.

We haven't said so because that's obviously for CCP to determine. But if you're suggesting that highsec IS balanced after all you've got a bit of explaining to do.

There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.

Wouldn't that also be a job for CCP to do? Ultimately, we're both playing the same game after all, just some people have a stronger opinion about it is all =)

So, what, because it's "CCP's job", we should just stop pointing it out to them?

Okay. It's CCP's job, and we as players shouldn't point out where we think the squeaky wheel is.

I'm sure that'll go well, because CCP are psychic and/or good at designing their own game, because they play it so much.

where is the double standard exactly? are we also game designers of an imbalanced game?

Newsflash: Not everybody is peaceful in a video game about spaceship violence.

CCP should indeed make it possible to elect a system to become the "new Jita" where "credited enough" (known not hostile) could act in a quasi NRDS manner but until then, it's on the alliance leaders shoulders to make it happen.

CCP should indeed make it possible to elect a system to become the "new Jita"

where "credited enough" (known not hostile) could act in a quasi NRDS manner but until then, it's on the alliance leaders shoulders to make it happen.

We're saying the balance between hisec and nullsec is off, and that it's hurting the game. You're saying that's not for us to say.

What does CCP's track record tell you when they don't bother with listening to the playerbase?

But see, when you talk about "balance", you're opening all sorts of doors because "balance" can and at the same time, does not, fit into comparing highsec and nullsec. There is a synergy for sure, but there is no definitive 50/50 or 30/70 or anything like that.

It's up to alliance leaders to embrace impractical and non-feasible policies? That's silly. Also last I checked VFK was far closer to that goal then D-GTMI.

"Impractical and non-feasible" as in "they are not willing to go beyond the hard enforced game limits and dare to meta"?

It is possible, we've chosen VFK.


ahahahahahaha no get lost

ahahahahahaha no get lost

plenty of alliance have 'dared to NRDS'. They're dead.

There isn't a synergy, there's a dependence from nullsec to hisec. Nullsec shouldn't be dependent on hisec to the extent it is today.

VFK is a nice start, but it's as small as Oursularert turnover wise, that is still too small.

Yes it should. Or don't have access to the same level of manufactured goods.

Make nullsec a place where more people live, and VFK would grow with the population.

With all the zillions some alliances have pouring off their asses they could afford paying people to act as player "Concord" and enforce neutrality in *one* system, that would quickly become a safe haven island. Coupled with CCP buffing null industry, that system would become an alternate true Jita. There are a lot of people including me who couldn't wait to ferry their goods over there, if they knew they'd not get insta-popped just for *thinking* cynoing in there.

With all the zillions some alliances have pouring off their asses they could afford paying people to act as player "Concord" and enforce neutrality in *one* system, that would quickly become a safe haven island.

With almost all of null being NBSI.. that makes things more difficult than it should... again coming back full circle to the title of the thread...

Why?

Nope, NBSI has nothing to do with why null is as empty as it is.

But that requires :effort: and thinking outside of the box and actually be collectively willing to do what it takes. Not going to happen, eh? "The sandbox FORCES US to kill everybody bar none".
What do you want to avoid it? To get some WoW forced neutral town handed to you?

What do you want to avoid it? To get some WoW forced neutral town handed to you?

Because your rationale is to say null should only fly what it could make and nothing else.

Which would drastically alter the way the game has come about over the years.

Null has always been dependant on highsec for its technology because from a populace standpoint, null is too volatile to support the development of technology.

That sounds like a huge effort and expenditure for a very uncertain reward.

That uncertainty would be compounded by allowing people to light cynos whenever they felt like it... and once again, 0.0 would be paying to compete with a service that hi-sec gets for free.

Allowing manufacturing and retail economies to thrive by buffing null industry, and making incentives not to outsource industry to highsec would have the benefits of running NRDS actually materialize. You have literally fought every step of this, ironically making you the the perfect pro-NBSI lobbyist.

So you don't think people trying to travel through null to check out and gets blown up to bits because they "might" be a spy has no reason why people avoid null?

That's correct, I don't. Look at how many chars are in nullsec alliances, look at how many are active on a day to day basis. Why do you think almost none of those chars are actually logged in and active?

1) I know it's an huge effort. So? Are you there to do the never dared before and create a real empire? That is something never done before (assuming CCP will also buff industry etc. etc. in the meanwhile). Something bold, that is the first completely player driven and wanted totally sandbox civilization, in a pure PvP location with no "safety" rules at all?
Maybe I am too optimistic and enthusiastic about it, but *that* would be worth and would be remembered through the years.


2) "Service that hi sec gets for free" is only true thinking in *today* terms. Since in order to even start believing at doing the whole project, CCP needs first to do what's needed (no need to repeat it), then the deal will be way more "equal".
If they will do the buffs then you won't HAVE to import anything special from hi sec, actually you'll have stuff that hi sec WILL have to import from you.

1) I know it's an huge effort. So? Are you there to do the never dared before and create a read empire? That is something never done before (assuming CCP will also buff industry etc. etc. in the meanwhile). Something bold, that is the first completely player driven and wanted totally sandbox civilization, in a pure PvP location with no "safety" rules at all?
Maybe I am too optimistic and enthusiastic about it, but *that* would be worth and would be remembered through the years.

2) "Service that hi sec gets for free" is only true thinking in *today* terms. Since in order to even start believing at doing the whole project, CCP needs first to do what's needed (no need to repeat it), then the deal will be way more "equal".