Feel free. In return you can restrict yourself to comments that pertain to something you actually know something about.

Being able to NOS/nuet someone at nearly 40km, in a reasonably quick attack BS, with drones as your primary weapon and pulse lasers or missiles as your secondary weapons system (or all nuets)... really, you can't think of how that works together?

I don't have an issue with someone not understanding how to fight with NOS/Nuet equipped ships, but to make a blanket statement that NOS/Nuet range is useless is highly amusing.

The ship is borderline over powered. The only thing that keeps it from going over the top is the fact that its a range bonuses instead of an amount bonus.

The only thing that keeps it from going over the top is the fact that its a range bonuses instead of an amount bonus

Thanks for agreeing with me. But I do think my comparison of cruiser and battlecruiser here is spot on. Wny? Because, intuitively speaking, difficulty to fit and fly a ship should go UP as you go up the ship tree, not DOWN, right?

Think about it. Frigates are the first ships noobs get into. They aren't particularly difficult to fit or fly, otherwise noobs wouldn't be flying. However, noobs can't fly Titans. This seems to be a correct mechanic.

Now, I could fit and fly a caldari battlecruiser better than I could fit and fly an amarr omen, and I've actually trained some skills in amarr.

Now do you get my comparison?

My experience of it is the opposite, bigger ships are easier to fit, high skils help though, so do implants, though after these changes that might not be the case for amarr ships. Hint 102% of power grid to fit tachyons.

lols, I'm the troll? You can't even 'speak' properly half of whatever you may be trying to make a point of is lost because of your broken english, and when I try to realistically respond to what little point does come across, I'm a troll? Go back and read the entire thread again.

Fine I am surprised CCP does not take forum moderation more serious you already called me several times with offending names plus your corporation name is highly suggestive. Yes I might have a broken sentence but at least I respect other people who give out healthy critisism and who actually care to read what another says before replying to them.

You contended that we already have such a ship in the Amarr line. When I pointed out how different they are in capabiity and style of combat, your response is "I don't care about difference."
By the way, no, I don't have a problem with the Bhaalgorn. It's a great ship that fits it's role very well indeed. Your simply trying to deflect the conversation away from the fact that you don't actually have a point.

As to your assertion that developers, with a very strong background in EvE PVP, shouldn't have a hand in balancing combat vessels is perhaps the most innane comment I've seen in a very long time.

Who then "should" guide this effort? A player with extremely limited experience in PVP in general, and no verifiable experience with BS combat in particular?

Your posts got better for a while after you got called on this sort of nonsense, but now you're devolving into troll posts again.

In fleet ops that range is not nearly big enough to make a difference, and " reasonably quick attack BS" is pure bullshit, every battleship is slow as a brick and Armageddon is the slowest one of the "attack" line, not counting tier 3 the slowest of the bunch. And its armor tanked so yeah.

I never said neuts are useless, or even that the bonus is useless, just that it is really really situational. So give an realistic engagement example that is gonna happen more than 3 times next year where the 18km range bonus will be significant advantage. This ship can not do the same things the Curse does great.


And the only thing keeping Apocalypse from being a good ship is it has optimal bonus on lasers and not damage.

And one more time so you dont go into your loop about awesomeness of neuts - no one is saying that neuts are useless and no one is talking about the neuts themselves, its about the hull bonus.

Kill2 is a small gang roamer, and his little to no experience of being in a fleet larger than 10... I am sad to say small gang roaming died years ago and this Geddon change proves the point that he is trying to bring back the small solo game play but unfortunately the game has moved on from that.

Not only is the 'new' Geddon a solo I win boat but it will also be a fleet 'I win ship' I bet no thought has gone into the 'new' Geddon on the large fleet side of things.

To make this 'new' Geddon balanced for fleet warfare it would need to have a considerably weaker tank otherwise you will see fleets just filled with these 'new' Geddons with its only weakness being if they forget to broadcast for capacitor.

Duality Test 1

Armageddon with max fitting skills works just fine in PVE with pulses (beams don't fit)
Requires 3 CCCs and 2 Cap chargers - IS NOT CAP STABLE with pulse lasers
With Cruise missiles cap stable with 2 large armor reps

Apocalypse was fine with pulses in PVE (beam won't fit with armor repper) Mega Beam IIs leave 500 grid
Requires 3 CCCs and 2 Cap chargers - IS NOT CAP STABLE with pulse lasers


Tested both these ships in Enemies Abound 3 and 4 of 5 (similar enemies)

The current settings on Duality don't have the laser changes. The way things currently are you have to be VERY aware of where you armor values are and when to cycle (IE Pay attention) other than that the ships themselves performed like they should.

I still wish I didn't have to give 1/4 of all ship fitting to the cap but there it is.

Duality Test 1

Armageddon with max fitting skills works just fine in PVE with pulses (beams don't fit)
Requires 3 CCCs and 2 Cap chargers - IS NOT CAP STABLE with pulse lasers
With Cruise missiles cap stable with 2 large armor reps

Apocalypse was fine with pulses in PVE (beam won't fit with armor repper) Mega Beam IIs leave 500 grid
Requires 3 CCCs and 2 Cap chargers - IS NOT CAP STABLE with pulse lasers


Tested both these ships in Enemies Abound 3 and 4 of 5 (similar enemies)

The current settings on Duality don't have the laser changes. The way things currently are you have to be VERY aware of where you armor values are and when to cycle (IE Pay attention) other than that the ships themselves performed like they should.

I still wish I didn't have to give 1/4 of all ship fitting to the cap but there it is.

Kill2 is a small gang roamer, and his little to no experience of being in a fleet larger than 10... I am sad to say small gang roaming died years ago and this Geddon change proves the point that he is trying to bring back the small solo game play but unfortunately the game has moved on from that.

Not only is the 'new' Geddon a solo I win boat but it will also be a fleet 'I win ship' I bet no thought has gone into the 'new' Geddon on the large fleet side of things.

To make this 'new' Geddon balanced for fleet warfare it would need to have a considerably weaker tank otherwise you will see fleets just filled with these 'new' Geddons with its only weakness being if they forget to broadcast for capacitor.

well, we don't need to test the Abaddon, as we know it will do worse then before, the laser bandaid isn't on it yet so the only thing different for it is the loss of tank.

The geddon is a beast, but can definately be broken if you set yourself to either overpower it inside it's control zone or specifically remain outside of it.

The Apoc will do ok once the laser bandaid is on, atm it's abit underwhelming.

That's for PvP.
(side note, the new Navy Omen makes me feel funny in my pants :P )

As for PvE, I've never previously used any bS for it but the Abaddon, but with some forknowledge of how the rat AI works the 'Geddon performs adequately.

The Abaddon I refuse to try until the laser patch is done as I doubt it will have enough tank to hold up properly until it is easier to fit for cap issues.

The Armageddon looks like it will be able to be fit to be relatively nimble if you are going to use it (as will often be the case) for small to medium sized gang work... for a BS hull. That being said, since it lacks the speed of the Curse it will actually benefit from the range bonus MORE than the Curse does, and be far more survivable when doing it. Let's face it, the Curse is a great ship but it tends to die very quickly once attention is turned to it. The Geddon will be much more survivable in a knock down, drag out brawl situation... and much, much more likely to be used for any form of solo play as well.

The Geddon will be deadly in close range encounters, effective at mid range encounters with excellent anti tackler capability, and can be made moderately effective at longer ranges (still with great anti tackle capability).

The only way that NOS/Nuet bonus will go is if it's deemed TOO effective on this hull.