Ancient history now, but this is what they were trying to do with missiles a long time ago....

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=79439

Basically - takes time to accelerate, so the bigger missiles would have poor agility straight out of the tubes, and therefore difficulty hitting smaller stuff up close.

Never was too sure why it didn't work, they just pulled the plug on it and eventually went with the explosion radius/velocity approach. Shame really, could have been a cool system, with scope for adding things like minimum 'arming' distance.

Ancient history now, but this is what they were trying to do with missiles a long time ago....

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=79439

Basically - takes time to accelerate, so the bigger missiles would have poor agility straight out of the tubes, and therefore difficulty hitting smaller stuff up close.

Never was too sure why it didn't work, they just pulled the plug on it and eventually went with the explosion radius/velocity approach. Shame really, could have been a cool system, with scope for adding things like minimum 'arming' distance.

So this task is not a Task for aeronautical engineering, its a task for the computer science or mathematics. This formula doesnt depends on the location from you or your target, thats good and bad at the same time. You can deal always 100%, it doesnt matter where your enemy is, but the enemy can really easy speed tank your missiles. An Afterburner is enough and your missiles will deal 50%-75% less dmg.

Ancient history now, but this is what they were trying to do with missiles a long time ago....

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=79439

Basically - takes time to accelerate, so the bigger missiles would have poor agility straight out of the tubes, and therefore difficulty hitting smaller stuff up close.

Never was too sure why it didn't work, they just pulled the plug on it and eventually went with the explosion radius/velocity approach. Shame really, could have been a cool system, with scope for adding things like minimum 'arming' distance.

BIG END NOTE: This is step one in missile changes in progress, mentioned before and currently in tuning on the development server is physics changes to missile agility and how they keep track of targets at close and long range, making it so that the bigger missiles guide better at long range but not as well at close range (similar to how long range battleship turrets track frigates at long range).

I did some adjustments for my formula to get the curve nicer and set the minimal dmg output to 10% now.

Real DMG = DMG * max(min(Y-vel,1),cos(min((vel-Y)/(Y*DRF),3.1415))/2.222+0.55)

Y = Sig * Ev / Er
vel = ship's velocity
sig = ship's signature
Er = Explosion Radius of missile
Ev = Explosion Velocity of missile
DRF = Damage reducing Factor

i wont post the plot, because im lazy now, if you want to know how i would look like quote this post then i will post it.

Edit: I messed up the Formula for sooting at small targets, will do some fixes later

graph please

right now imo the biggest problem with all missile wepaons is the fact that missiles are delayed dps. increase all missile velocities to the point where they reach their targets in under 2 seconds

My formula is:
Real DMG = DMG * min(Sig/Er,max(min(Y-vel,1),cos(min((vel-Y)/(Y*DRF),3.1415))/2.222+0.55))

Y = Sig * Ev / Er
vel = ship's velocity
sig = ship's signature
Er = Explosion Radius of missile
Ev = Explosion Velocity of missile
DRF = Damage reducing factor

I put some values in for Cruise, all 5 Skills and the target ship is 400 sig.

Y = 167.27
sig = 400
Er = 247.5
Ev = 103.5
DRF = 1 and 1.5
vel = see the graph

See the graph for the dmg application, which depends on the speed of the target. The green curve is the current formula from CCP.
DRF= 1
http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/3238/4pcuvslr_png.htm
DRF= 1.5
http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3238/on6vik8r_png.htm

I fixed the problem for soothing at small targets now.

Edit:
used this site:
http://www.walterzorn.de/grapher/grapher.htm

Formulas:
min(400/247.5,max(min(167.27-x,1),cos(min((x-167.27)/(167.27*1.5),3.1415))/2.222+0.55));
min(400/247.5, min(1, (103.5/247.5 * 400/x)^(log(4.5)/log(5.5))))

No Feedback for my Hard work?

property's of my Formula:
- You can set a minimum
- You can adjust the dmg application with DRF
- The dmg application depends on the speed of the target, but the dmg curve is a cosine function, so the dmg dont get much worse if the break-even is passed.

Delayed dmg is sure a problem, but if you CCP did as you suggest, then missiles arent missiles anymore.
You cant just make missiles super fast, the dmg application is a bigger problem.

Flight time should be adjust like this (without ship bonus):
- Less then 5 sec for mid range
- 5-7.5 sec for long range.

Im not sure about the numbers never sniped with missiles in PvP.

I have attempted to use missiles in PvP. The longer range flight times make missiles inexcusably inferior to any turret system. Even lasers with their draconian cap-usage and fitting requirements are superior to CML over those ranges in terms of applied damage.

Bucca is on to something. As missiles are by definition a warhead mounted on an engine. There is no logical in-universe reason that engine couldn't be upgraded. For example, light combat drones which are 7 m long have a MWD. The longer ranged versions of missiles could be retconned to have it too: Light missiles, Heavy Missiles and Cruise Missiles (variants included).

Doing that CCP could easily write up an in-game development to increase those missile velocities to allow for a 2-3 second time-to-impact. Four seconds would be the outer limit of allowable time-to-impact. As any longer than that and the target can warp away when you lock/fire and before missile reach them. The flight time could then be adjusted to keep the missile ranges within reason. So basically the new missile states for range would look something like this:

Standard Heavy Missile (w/ lvl4 Missile Projection + Bombardment)

Max Velocity: 18 km/s*
Flight time 3 secs
Range = 54 km
Time-to-impact: 3 sec

To offset the nearly instant application of damage the damage could be reduced *some* to put missiles back into proper par with turrets. The main balancing attribrute would be the longer base ROF of missile launchers to turrets. Thereby reducing the dps that is actually felt.

*Idea: Make the missile accelerate using an X^2 curve. That would mean that it should be more 'balanced' at closer ranges as well.

In addition, I would suggest that the anti-missile system be changed to a mid-slot or utility-high not launcher/turret based system. Game-mechanic would be a directed or pulsed energy projector that targets missiles like smartbombs. The difference from smart bombs being that it harms only missiles not drones or enemy ships. Using that kind of anti-missile system idea would allow any pilot or raced ship to fit it. Thus not restricting people as the present and worthless defender missiles do.

see the link for acceleration in EvE:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Acceleration

So the missiles will start and accelerate, but when they get faster it will decrease the acceleration.
So you cant use a x^2 curve for the missiles. you would need to change the formula for missiles acceleration into:

s = 1/2 * a * t^2
s = distance
a = acceleration
t = time of flight

Missiles property's would be changed into:
- Flight time
- Acceleration (No velocity needed anymore)

Would be a cool change.

yeah really sad, the best AMS (Anti-Missiles-System) are smartbombs. Agree antimissiles need to change, but i wont discuss it here in this thread.

yeah really sad, the best AMS (Anti-Missiles-System) are smartbombs. Agree antimissiles need to change, but i wont discuss it here in this thread.

I already have power grid problems. :(

Why in the heck are you using Fury for the Raven? I think you're setting it up to fail - on a BC target you should be using Precision or Faction. My estimates suggest Precision will almost always be the right choice with the new numbers if the target sub-cap and moving at all, unless you need range (in which case use Faction). Fury is for stationary targets and capitals, as always.

I think you're missing mathematical incompetence. The other poster (Chessur?) is just clueless.

Take the following cases:

A Raven shoots CN Cruise (247.5 m, 103.5 m/s) at a MWDing Megathron (954 m/s, 2280 m sig). WIth new cruise, damage dealt is 100%, so the 10% increase in explosion radius has no effect, you get the full benefit of the 31.6% cruise DPS increase.

A Raven shoots CN Cruise (247.5 m, 103.5 m/s) at a MWDing Drake (1003 m/s, 2090 m sig). Old cruise did 96.3% damage; new cruise will do 88.6% damage. Accounting for 31.6% more DPS from new cruise gives an increase in applied DPS with new cruise of 21.0%. A single painter takes both to 100% damage, resulting in 31.6% more DPS from new cruise.

A Raven shoots CN Cruise (247.5 m, 103.5 m/s) at a MWDing shield Hurricane (1293 m/s, 1796 m sig). Old cruise did 67.4% damage; new cruise does only 61.9%, ohnoes, a nerf! Not quite. Accounting for the extra 31.6% DPS from new cruise indicates that new cruise will again do 21.0% more damage than old cruise.

This rule of >21% more applied damage seems to hold true in most sensible combinations of sig and speed, although it does seem to break down to 19.6% in some odd combinations. I don't have time to track it down right now though.

Checked what battleship you are firign at? The typhoon is exaclty the lowest sgianture battleship EXACLTY so that it can mitigate incomming damage. Try firing at a hyperion and see if you need ANY Tpainter.

Except every other race can use their T2 Battleship ammo on battleship and even smaller ships without issue. So why would Caldari be the exception?

My formula is:
Real DMG = DMG * min(Sig/Er,max(min(Y-vel,1),cos(min((vel-Y)/(Y*DRF),3.1415))/2.222+0.55))

Y = Sig * Ev / Er
vel = ship's velocity
sig = ship's signature
Er = Explosion Radius of missile
Ev = Explosion Velocity of missile
DRF = Damage reducing factor

Formulas:
min(400/247.5,max(min(167.27-x,1),cos(min((x-167.27)/(167.27*1.5),3.1415))/2.222+0.55));
min(400/247.5, min(1, (103.5/247.5 * 400/x)^(log(4.5)/log(5.5))))

No Feedback for my Hard work?

property's of my Formula:
- You can set a minimum
- You can adjust the dmg application with DRF
- The dmg application depends on the speed of the target, but the dmg curve is a cosine function, so the dmg dont get much worse if the break-even is passed.

Don't forget that while your cruise missiles may not do full damage to the target you will not miss so you are doing some damage which is better than zero damage like when guns get out tracked. You seem to desire that missiles should always do full damage when they hit? Often guns won't either because of tracking or being in fall off or both and also affected by signature size as per the various formulas. It seems like overall its nearing a very good balance with these changes.

Hmmm, the one problem I have with this formula is that it is solely dependant on velocity... While I agree that velocity would be a major factor in solving damage, it should never be a single standalone...

I realize that it "works" (to an extent) but then it really isn't a fair representation of all factors involved based on all of the trained skills available...

The idea being to create a formula that has many factors working in unison (since you will have many other factors working against them in game ie. webbers, painters, etc); the formula should be complex utilizing a wide range of factors without being complicated.

Like I said before, its not a simple solution...

Factoring in the velocity of missles into the equation wouldn't really be a good idea since they already fly faster than most ships anyways...

The Forumla is using all factors. Its what Y = Sig * Ev / Er is for.
It may appear different, but there is no difference, except it use a cosine function. Otherwise show me an example where the Formula behaves strange.

If you get webed or painted, your speed decrease or your Sig-Radius is increased. This facts will surly change the dmg you are doing.

property's of my Formula:
- You can set a minimum
- You can adjust the dmg application with DRF
- The dmg application depends on the speed of the target, but the dmg curve is a cosine function, so the dmg dont get much worse if the break-even is passed.