Don't forget that Many BS's are getting a Sig.Rad. Increase with the rebalance.

Interesting. Overall damage increase offset by a PG need increase and a decrease of about 1/3rd the range (base flight from 20 to 14 seconds). Get closer... but punch harder. Works for me.

The increase in cruise velocity means an overall range loss of only 12% or so.

Not to mention guided missile precision applies to torpedos now, so with that maxed out, your explosion radius is 337.5m anyway. The smallest sig radius BS (post Odyssey) will be the Typhoon, at 330m. If you're shooting one of those (and it's going slower than 106.5m/s) you lose about 2.2% of your DPS.

The effect of speed on the explosion radius is much more significant - the actual DPS loss against that Typhoon is about 24.5% of on-paper DPS, assuming its base speed of 143m/s. That said, that's 75% of ~940 DPS

Numbers vary with Rage torps, of course. You'll want a target painter (or two or three) then!

I've been doing PvE since 06 and believe me I know how to fit ships.

Yeah, Rage torps need tweaking. Lower explosion velocity than t1/faction and huge explosion radius requires GMP V and multiple support modules to apply that damage.

I'm also not a fan of how Fury missile explosion radius is 72% larger than T1/faction.
With the 10% increase in explosion radius for all missiles, T2 Fury Cruise missiles will have a base radius of 568m and a radius of 426m with GMP V.

Those of you complaining about the explosion radius increase I have to wonder if you have ever used Cruise missiles.

I use a Cruise fit Navy Scorp in our C3 wormhole and I spank the Cruisers for pretty much full damage when they are not MWD'ing.

Sure on a PVP fit you wouldnt have a full rig set of T2 flare or rigor rigs but you would still be able to use the amazing ammo called Precision Missiles.

On my SNI to explosion radius on Precision is about 150 and the explosion velocity is about the same. 1 web on a frigate and you hit them for about 50% damage.

The 30% increase in dps for me is huge, the slighty penalty in explosion radius isnt really going to have that much of an effect.

My SNI has 2 target painters, 2 rigor rigs (third rig is a anti therm because of wormhole rats omni damage) and a web. Anything frigate or cruiser sized melts to Precision and bs take full damage from furys.

The 30% damage bonus is massive, its quite possibly the best change for Odyssey I have seen so far.

Damage application with missiles is a totally different ballgame to guns. Some people here I think dont fully understand the implications. This change is brilliant from my perspective.

My fit is on Battleclinic at the moment. You can drop to T2 for similar respectable figures for level 4's. A web helps a lot but its missing from this fit.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65517-Scorpion-Navy-Issue-Wormhole-PVE.html

Is the explosion radius increase really necessary? Even without the damage application nerf, Cruises aren't hitting anything below BS size for full damage without significant assistance from multiple rigors/tps.

Torps are the odd one out here. Close range high dps guns track better, close range torps "track" worse than cruise. Something needs to be do about torps really more than Cruise.

Is the explosion radius increase really necessary? Even without the damage application nerf, Cruises aren't hitting anything below BS size for full damage without significant assistance from multiple rigors/tps.

And I still don-¦t see how a cruise raven will fit in a pvp fleet.
Raven has some of worst possible scanres. In a fleet with for example 20 bs, 1 raven 19 with guns, the gunships will lock faster and alpha the target which will be dead mostly before the raven has even locked it, never mind locked it AND delivered the missiles.
To fix cruise missiles really we would need sth. stupid that gives a bonus on scanres/launcher. So the cruise missile ship could deliver its damage simultaneously with turret ships.
Of course you can sacrifice a med for a sensor booster on a cruise missle ship but the raven would be uber paper tank then.

Another simulation: 20 turret bs vs 20 raven cruise bs.
Turrett fleet will wreck 1 raven and make the whole stuff 19vs20 before the ravens even get their first volley done.
Really don-¦t see the fix here.
Okay carebears will be happy with it. But almost useless for pvp.

Btw it is already sometimes in PVE hard to see if I should still shoot one cruise volley on a target 60km away. So you waste sometimes dps while you shoot a volley when another still hasn-¦t arrived and maybe wrecks the target.
Cruise missiles often waste dps and the fix with higher flight speed gets wrecked by "the fix" higher rate of fire.

pfbt, do you care to back up that assertion, at all, in any way? Who ever promised you that your ammo costs would never go up?

Besides, with a **25% damage buff** your isk/damage costs are going to go _down_ substatially anyway

Breaking news: we don't balance modules in this PvP game around their effect in PvE. That tail doesn't wag this dog. As examples of where PvE rates might get plain nerfed for the benefit of the game, see recent HM nerf, upcoming TE nerf (that probably should be a Mach+tier3 BCs nerf).

Changing something that is broken shouldnt cost players more, or decrease the isk/hour. However your point about the 25% damage buff is very valid and something I hadn't considered.

What IGÇÖm wishing for? Dear CCP Rise, can you actually make a role for a raven, where he will be better than other ship? Or even comparable. PVE it's not a role IGÇÖm wishing for. And BTW, he suck even in PVE. To make a better fix, you need to ask yourself just one question, "Why do I choose Raven for PVP?" . If you can answer this - your fix is done. But right now, there is no answer.

P.S.
Sorry for my wall of text full of grammar mistakes. English is not my native language. But I can't be silent. I'm sure, if I didn't say anything, my Raven will be useless for 2-3 years more. Hope you actually read this.

Rest assured if cruises were worthless in PvP but allowed pilots to make 10 billion isk/hour in PvE I would bet my mortgage several times over that they'd be nerfed.

People are saying they might be TOO good for PvE and STILL not good enough for PvP.


@Shingorash: Shhhhhhh.